When i first sauce this honestly it thought it was ridiculous, then I had to bend a 9’ radius on 2” bar and it kept corkscrewing. So I spent a lot of time setting up a similar mod, well I was skeptical that it would work, but let me tell you it was worth the time, then bends are perfect every time and I don’t have to constantly straighten the pipe! I used the swag mods too, and can bend a 9’ section of 2” 15 gauge to a 9’ radius in less than 10 minutes, perfect every time, thanks for posting this!
I need to create an 8 foot diameter circle using 3 lengths of 10 foot pipe. How do I know how much bend to put into each section (length) so that when assembled with couplers the ends meet to complete the circle?
Google circumference calculator. Find your centerpoint in your length and measure out from the centerpoint. Allow at least 10 inches to a foot for the flat spots. Mark with a marker. And use a roll of tape around the tube to get a square cut. Draw out on paper first to make sure your calculations work. I should publish a formula, but those files are archived and I’ll have to look them up. good luck and feel free to contact me.
Ok this is the calculator I use online www.omnicalculator.com/math/circumference. 1- Diameter Calculation: An 8-foot diameter circle has a circumference of approximately 25.13274 feet. (This is just a calculation for reference.) 2 - Divide Circumference by 3: If you divide the circumference of the circle by 3, you get approximately 8.4 feet. Usable tubing. Converting this to inches gives you 8 feet and 5 inches. 4 - Adding 20 Inches: If you add 20 inches to the 8 feet 5 inches, you get a total of 10 feet 1 inch. 5 - Marking the Tube: Find the center of the tube and mark it clearly. Then, measure out 4 feet 2.5 inches from the center in one direction and mark it. Repeat the same step on the opposite side. 6- Do not cut the length down until the end. REMEMBER YOU NEED TO ROLL PAST THE ENDS TO AVOID THE FLAT SPOTS. AFTER THE BEND, THEN CUT!!!!
@@forsterarts Thanks for the calculator and calculations. I am still confused. After I mark the tube at 4.25 inches, how is this mark used? In relation to what? I’m trying to figure out how much bend to put in each 10-foot section so that 3 sections put together will give me the circle.
@@SteveJohnson-x1z the center of the tube is 5 feet. Circumscribe a mark with a felt tip pan at 5 feet. Measure out 4 feet 2 1/2 inches from the center. At that point circumscribe another line with your tip marker. do this for both sides? The remaining will be the flattened spots that you don’t want in your bend. Those get cut off and thrown away. I’m out shopping right now and should be home in an hour or two if this does not seem clear enough I’m having difficulty writing from my phone.
The biggest problem with the Harbor freight roller and causes the twisting problem as well is that the roller dies are to close together. Buy the SwagOffroad upgrade kit for this roller and all will be good. Great video.
I have owned the big expensive Baileigh's too, and they all twist. I used this method with my big expensive rollers. Controlling the twist is primary issue. Now the people who really know rollers are the people who do the big expensive stainless steel spiral staircases.
It's a great idea. I work outside in the gravel, so this probably won't quite work for me. If my shop area was weld-spark approved (don't want to burn down my shop), the floor is pitched for water drainage, so it wouldn't work there either.
Hi Peter, Loved the video! I was hoping you would be kind enough to advise me on something? Do you remember what wall thickness and diameter tube you are bending in the video? I have just made up my rollers for the roller bender I am making. I need to bend stainless tube that is 1" and a 1/4" diameter and .065" wall thickness. Like you, I am a sculptor but I am from Australia. I was going to use the harbour freight unit as a guide to the one I am making. Do you think it will be up to bending my job? The tube you are bending seems much thicker than .065. Any thought? Kind regards, Simon.
I was using aluminum pipe that was 1/4" Thick. Knowing the difference between pipe and tube. Pipe is measured by the inside diameter, and tube is measured by the outside diameter. My pipe was 1 1/4" ID, which made the outside 1 1/2". The rollers are designed for tube diameters. I used the two inch rollers to produce my railings. There is a problem with using oversize rollers, in that the walls will deform and not stay round, they become sort of oval shaped. Harbor Freight dies are 1", 1 1/2" & 2". You will have to use the 11/2" die and depending on how tight a bend you are looking for will determine the distortion. There are a number of people producing after market dies if you need the precision. **no matter how fine a roller you purchase there will always be an oval shape, you can actually calculate the oval that will be produced. Also known as "Ovilaty"** To answer you on the 1/16" SS wall thickness and will the roller be up to the job. Yes it will. Remember to allow extra footage on the ends for cut off. No matter how fine a tubing roller you have, there will always be distortion where the bends begin and end. I pre determine my bends, with precision and mark my tubes all the way around before I begin rolling so the cut off angle is not fudged. **Start the bend several inches in front of your cut off marks!** Also, you are probably thinking SS this is tough stuff, it is going to be hard to bend. SS is tough yet at the same time fragile. It has high strength but the surface is fragile. That is stainless steel self passivates. Under a microscope the surface is always getting rid of contaminants that may start to rust. For this reason I always handle my finished SS with soft goat skin gloves. Start your bending process gradually, do not overdue it thinking in the back of your mind this is going to be tough. The biggest problem you will be faced with, will be keeping the tube from becoming spaghetti like. You can achieve the same results that I produce in the video by having a person on the ends holding a level. This method takes a bit of practice, but is quicker. I ended up building a small stand, because the large table just slowed me down. Getting your rollers set up is very important, I made a number of shims using large washers. I ground one pair of washers down to paper thin. **Washer pairs, that is three pair of washers to paper thin** The rollers must be centered equally yet turn easily to produce best results. Take the time the first time to set them up right, learn the quirks of the rollers, and you will get some nice results. Good luck, if you have more questions, let me know. Circumference calculator www.omnicalculator.com/math/circumference
@@forsterarts Peter, thanks so much for the detailed response. It is much appreciated. I made my dies on the lathe and they seem to be a good fit on the tube. I am not envisaging any problems from that side hopefully. I am surprised you got away with the bigger rollers on your job but it is great to know that there is some tolerance. I was thinking that if it was 1/32 " oversized it would be a throwaway job! I am obviously wrong about the roller setup. You mentioned shimming yours to get the alignment right but I had assumed they would self align? So they really need shimming? I am curious as to what happened without shimming? Do the rollers bog down or go off centre or something? Again, your advice was very much appreciated. Regards, Simon.
The concept is great, my shop floor is not....Mason must have done some serious drinking while waiting for concrete truck to show up that day. I bought garage this way, did not have it built. I'm a solid 2.5" off over 30' in my shop. Rolls up in middle, then back down again along edges, and there is a drain in the middle of floor, .....at highest point....SMH......When I bring 24' lengths of material in, and set it down, I have to block both ends and nothing in the middle. Is it mostly round tubing that is an issue then? I do alot of square tubing rolling, and don't have much twisting issues using it upright. I have to go outside to do it, but wouldn't have the space anyway to do it on side, your way, inside. How big is your shop? I can usually clamp them down on a table jig after and then the heat from welding gets them flat and true for the little bit they are out. Aluminum twists like crazy to begin with while welding, so it sort of moves back to where I need it.
My current shop is very small, I went from a 5000 ft. to 600 foot shop. My shop table has large inflatable wheels so I could roll out into the yard for larger works. Yeah your square tube comes in 24 foot lengths doesn’t it. I made those little T stands and have plenty of them around. they are very handy. Make them adjustable to go up and down. If you can find another person to hold the ends of the tube, then they can keep a level on the tube. You don’t want to heat aluminum for tweaking. I do use a very heavy dead blow up on occasion. Even square tube twist, especially As the radius gets tighter. I don’t know if the 2.5 inches of change in elevation will affect the outcome much. Just keep a level on your work all the time. Good luck!
I would suggest you add two more guide rollers and eliminate the weighted buckets on each end. When Using the buckets fasten the tube with a six inch F clamp. It will go inside the tube if I.D. allows and hold it better.
An F clamp would definitely be less frustrating. The added rollers will not prevent the twisting that naturally occurs in this process. When you do this in a normal shop, you have a guy on the other end holding the tube with a level. I substituted the guy with the level, using the stands. It works well for me.
By using the roller horizontal instead of vertical, the way it was intended, you fall prey to gravity which is causing your "spaghetti" effect. All tubing rollers are made this way for that reason and a simple lengh of angle iron bolted to the back side opposite the handwheel will allow you to see if the bend is going out of square. Plus you don't need 200 square feet of floor space and those ridiculous rolling T-supports that are guaranteed to stumble on every piece of debris on the floor.
I would guess your an engineer? I have owned some of the most expensive rollers all the way to this roller. All the expensive Rollers have an option to roll horizontal. With the roller set to vertical, there is no way to check the flatness of your curve. I have never known tubing that did not have a tendency to twist. You must be a better roller than I.
I would guess a couple pieces of 2x2x1/4” bolted together 1/64” wider than the stock being bent on both the exit and entry would be less time, mind, and space consumptive.
I was thinking about that as well, but only because the HF roller has a lot of play on each side of the dies, that owners are putting washers on each side to eliminate the play. So tipping it over on its side will allow gravity to slide the rollers to one side which isnt a problem if all the dies slide into the same position keeping them aligned but if theres dust and gunk on the die's bolt.. perhaps it could cause the die to not slide all the way to the one side causing the dies to no longer be aligned. Simple washers will solve this problem though.
This is a whole lot of wasted time. I have used and seen many things built with a hf radius bender/tube roller and have never seen a problem bending vertical. I don’t think I have ever seen a vertical radius bender. Baileigh, trick tools, hf, dpmimports they all make them vertical. It makes more sense so there is no load pulling on it sideways from the way your bending it.
Your idea really works and actually saves time.
When i first sauce this honestly it thought it was ridiculous, then I had to bend a 9’ radius on 2” bar and it kept corkscrewing. So I spent a lot of time setting up a similar mod, well I was skeptical that it would work, but let me tell you it was worth the time, then bends are perfect every time and I don’t have to constantly straighten the pipe! I used the swag mods too, and can bend a 9’ section of 2” 15 gauge to a 9’ radius in less than 10 minutes, perfect every time, thanks for posting this!
Excellent job and best idea. Perfect to do pipes for greenhouse
nice work. all that's needed is a level shop floor. i use modified chairs with casters for my moving supports and call them "spookies".
I bend a lot of conduit, and the most important thing is “Don’t assume the floor is level”.
@@ThePsychoNad glad you agree!
Really nice solution to the twist problem
I need to create an 8 foot diameter circle using 3 lengths of 10 foot pipe. How do I know how much bend to put into each section (length) so that when assembled with couplers the ends meet to complete the circle?
Google circumference calculator. Find your centerpoint in your length and measure out from the centerpoint. Allow at least 10 inches to a foot for the flat spots. Mark with a marker. And use a roll of tape around the tube to get a square cut. Draw out on paper first to make sure your calculations work. I should publish a formula, but those files are archived and I’ll have to look them up. good luck and feel free to contact me.
Ok this is the calculator I use online www.omnicalculator.com/math/circumference.
1- Diameter Calculation: An 8-foot diameter circle has a circumference of approximately 25.13274 feet. (This is just a calculation for reference.)
2 - Divide Circumference by 3: If you divide the circumference of the circle by 3, you get approximately 8.4 feet. Usable tubing. Converting this to inches gives you 8 feet and 5 inches.
4 - Adding 20 Inches: If you add 20 inches to the 8 feet 5 inches, you get a total of 10 feet 1 inch.
5 - Marking the Tube: Find the center of the tube and mark it clearly. Then, measure out 4 feet 2.5 inches from the center in one direction and mark it. Repeat the same step on the opposite side.
6- Do not cut the length down until the end. REMEMBER YOU NEED TO ROLL PAST THE ENDS TO AVOID THE FLAT SPOTS. AFTER THE BEND, THEN CUT!!!!
@@forsterarts Thanks for the calculator and calculations. I am still confused. After I mark the tube at 4.25 inches, how is this mark used? In relation to what? I’m trying to figure out how much bend to put in each 10-foot section so that 3 sections put together will give me the circle.
@@SteveJohnson-x1z the center of the tube is 5 feet. Circumscribe a mark with a felt tip pan at 5 feet. Measure out 4 feet 2 1/2 inches from the center. At that point circumscribe another line with your tip marker. do this for both sides? The remaining will be the flattened spots that you don’t want in your bend. Those get cut off and thrown away. I’m out shopping right now and should be home in an hour or two if this does not seem clear enough I’m having difficulty writing from my phone.
The biggest problem with the Harbor freight roller and causes the twisting problem as well is that the roller dies are to close together. Buy the SwagOffroad upgrade kit for this roller and all will be good. Great video.
I have owned the big expensive Baileigh's too, and they all twist. I used this method with my big expensive rollers. Controlling the twist is primary issue. Now the people who really know rollers are the people who do the big expensive stainless steel spiral staircases.
Awesome set up thanks for sharing. What are you making there?
I made a star wars railing system for a display put on for a Disney Event.
It's a great idea. I work outside in the gravel, so this probably won't quite work for me. If my shop area was weld-spark approved (don't want to burn down my shop), the floor is pitched for water drainage, so it wouldn't work there either.
Have a friend hold a level on the end, or tape a level on the end.
a level floor is ideal, but a flat floor that slopes will also work fine, you just can't use a level to calibrate your equipment.
That is a good idea
Hi Peter,
Loved the video! I was hoping you would be kind enough to advise me on something? Do you remember what wall thickness and diameter tube you are bending in the video?
I have just made up my rollers for the roller bender I am making. I need to bend stainless tube that is 1" and a 1/4" diameter and .065" wall thickness.
Like you, I am a sculptor but I am from Australia. I was going to use the harbour freight unit as a guide to the one I am making. Do you think it will be up to bending my job? The tube you are bending seems much thicker than .065. Any thought?
Kind regards,
Simon.
I was using aluminum pipe that was 1/4" Thick. Knowing the difference between pipe and tube. Pipe is measured by the inside diameter, and tube is measured by the outside diameter. My pipe was 1 1/4" ID, which made the outside 1 1/2". The rollers are designed for tube diameters. I used the two inch rollers to produce my railings. There is a problem with using oversize rollers, in that the walls will deform and not stay round, they become sort of oval shaped. Harbor Freight dies are 1", 1 1/2" & 2". You will have to use the 11/2" die and depending on how tight a bend you are looking for will determine the distortion. There are a number of people producing after market dies if you need the precision.
**no matter how fine a roller you purchase there will always be an oval shape, you can actually calculate the oval that will be produced. Also known as "Ovilaty"**
To answer you on the 1/16" SS wall thickness and will the roller be up to the job. Yes it will. Remember to allow extra footage on the ends for cut off. No matter how fine a tubing roller you have, there will always be distortion where the bends begin and end. I pre determine my bends, with precision and mark my tubes all the way around before I begin rolling so the cut off angle is not fudged. **Start the bend several inches in front of your cut off marks!**
Also, you are probably thinking SS this is tough stuff, it is going to be hard to bend. SS is tough yet at the same time fragile. It has high strength but the surface is fragile. That is stainless steel self passivates. Under a microscope the surface is always getting rid of contaminants that may start to rust. For this reason I always handle my finished SS with soft goat skin gloves. Start your bending process gradually, do not overdue it thinking in the back of your mind this is going to be tough. The biggest problem you will be faced with, will be keeping the tube from becoming spaghetti like. You can achieve the same results that I produce in the video by having a person on the ends holding a level. This method takes a bit of practice, but is quicker.
I ended up building a small stand, because the large table just slowed me down. Getting your rollers set up is very important, I made a number of shims using large washers. I ground one pair of washers down to paper thin. **Washer pairs, that is three pair of washers to paper thin** The rollers must be centered equally yet turn easily to produce best results. Take the time the first time to set them up right, learn the quirks of the rollers, and you will get some nice results. Good luck, if you have more questions, let me know.
Circumference calculator www.omnicalculator.com/math/circumference
@@forsterarts Peter, thanks so much for the detailed response. It is much appreciated. I made my dies on the lathe and they seem to be a good fit on the tube. I am not envisaging any problems from that side hopefully.
I am surprised you got away with the bigger rollers on your job but it is great to know that there is some tolerance. I was thinking that if it was 1/32 " oversized it would be a throwaway job!
I am obviously wrong about the roller setup. You mentioned shimming yours to get the alignment right but I had assumed they would self align? So they really need shimming?
I am curious as to what happened without shimming? Do the rollers bog down or go off centre or something?
Again, your advice was very much appreciated.
Regards,
Simon.
Love the weight idea. Nice
The concept is great, my shop floor is not....Mason must have done some serious drinking while waiting for concrete truck to show up that day. I bought garage this way, did not have it built. I'm a solid 2.5" off over 30' in my shop. Rolls up in middle, then back down again along edges, and there is a drain in the middle of floor, .....at highest point....SMH......When I bring 24' lengths of material in, and set it down, I have to block both ends and nothing in the middle. Is it mostly round tubing that is an issue then? I do alot of square tubing rolling, and don't have much twisting issues using it upright. I have to go outside to do it, but wouldn't have the space anyway to do it on side, your way, inside. How big is your shop? I can usually clamp them down on a table jig after and then the heat from welding gets them flat and true for the little bit they are out. Aluminum twists like crazy to begin with while welding, so it sort of moves back to where I need it.
My current shop is very small, I went from a 5000 ft. to 600 foot shop. My shop table has large inflatable wheels so I could roll out into the yard for larger works. Yeah your square tube comes in 24 foot lengths doesn’t it. I made those little T stands and have plenty of them around. they are very handy. Make them adjustable to go up and down. If you can find another person to hold the ends of the tube, then they can keep a level on the tube. You don’t want to heat aluminum for tweaking. I do use a very heavy dead blow up on occasion. Even square tube twist, especially As the radius gets tighter. I don’t know if the 2.5 inches of change in elevation will affect the outcome much. Just keep a level on your work all the time. Good luck!
Great video. Thanks.
You are welcome!
Great job. I may have to try this out
I would suggest you add two more guide rollers and eliminate the weighted buckets on each end. When Using the buckets fasten the tube with a six inch F clamp. It will go inside the tube if I.D. allows and hold it better.
An F clamp would definitely be less frustrating. The added rollers will not prevent the twisting that naturally occurs in this process. When you do this in a normal shop, you have a guy on the other end holding the tube with a level. I substituted the guy with the level, using the stands. It works well for me.
place a locknut on the threads when you reach the desired radius
That is a really good Idea. My old Baleigh had a dial on it, and you could set the dial. Thanks for bringing up that point.
By using the roller horizontal instead of vertical, the way it was intended, you fall prey to gravity which is causing your "spaghetti" effect. All tubing rollers are made this way for that reason and a simple lengh of angle iron bolted to the back side opposite the handwheel will allow you to see if the bend is going out of square. Plus you don't need 200 square feet of floor space and those ridiculous rolling T-supports that are guaranteed to stumble on every piece of debris on the floor.
I would guess your an engineer? I have owned some of the most expensive rollers all the way to this roller. All the expensive Rollers have an option to roll horizontal. With the roller set to vertical, there is no way to check the flatness of your curve. I have never known tubing that did not have a tendency to twist. You must be a better roller than I.
I wood ges kollej edukated. LOL
They have education but absolutely NO common sense. But they know it ALL!!!
I would guess a couple pieces of 2x2x1/4” bolted together 1/64” wider than the stock being bent on both the exit and entry would be less time, mind, and space consumptive.
I was thinking about that as well, but only because the HF roller has a lot of play on each side of the dies, that owners are putting washers on each side to eliminate the play. So tipping it over on its side will allow gravity to slide the rollers to one side which isnt a problem if all the dies slide into the same position keeping them aligned but if theres dust and gunk on the die's bolt.. perhaps it could cause the die to not slide all the way to the one side causing the dies to no longer be aligned. Simple washers will solve this problem though.
@@ChristopherJones16 providing your floor is level, most aren't
Great video! Thanks!!!!!
nice work
👍🏽🇺🇸👍🏽
its baked....... me to man.
I always use that phrase when I am done or completely done!
@@forsterarts lol i might try to use that one.
This is a whole lot of wasted time. I have used and seen many things built with a hf radius bender/tube roller and have never seen a problem bending vertical. I don’t think I have ever seen a vertical radius bender. Baileigh, trick tools, hf, dpmimports they all make them vertical. It makes more sense so there is no load pulling on it sideways from the way your bending it.
Good Luck! trying to make money with that.
I suggest you tie your she lace before you fall on our head again. People do this stuff on sheets of plywood which isn’t such a circus act.
You're right about my shoelace. I actually recall having to tie my shoe. Good catch.
@@forsterarts the trick is learning a square knot. You tie 2 knots, both in opposite directions