I have a 2015 Dragon Pro with Reynolds 853. It’s still running strong. I’ve dropped a Bomber 150mm on it instead of the Fox 120, shortened the stem and widened the handle bars. It rides so nice. I live in S Utah and it’s still my go to for the techy rock trails. I love steel. My sister still rides her ‘94’ Dragon! Thanks for the fair review. And thanks for promoting the hardtail 👍🏼
Man, I think you hit the nail on the head with 90's steel bikes vs today's steel bikes. I wish this Dragon was more of a modern version of the bike from back in the day, light, good quality steel. I would love a steel hardtail that wasn't a tank.
Agreed. That seem to be the case when I'm looking at specs these days. I have a 2013 Cotic Soul 26" as my current bike and that frame (size Small or X-Small) is 1.9 kg. I'd love to have an updated version of that with modern geo, boost spacing and all that jazz, but that doesn't seem to exist...
@@tomasstraka5244 Nah, bikes are just overbuilt now. Any steel hardtail from 20 years ago could take an absolute beating. Heck, I was riding steel hardtails on every trail in Sedona where these videos are made 20 years ago, no problem with the frames, lots of flats back in the dark days of tubes though. Sure, some folks need bikes build built for serious abuse, but that is the majority. Most of us would be better served with something lighter that has better ride quality.
I like the offset cable routing on my torrent, it’s keeps them protected from tailgates during shuttle runs and reduced the amount of grime that gets caught in the cables.
Good news. These are in stock right now at select Jamis dealers! I'm curious if it's a heavy frame because of the components, or the frame. Stay tuned for the ride review.
I’m thinking the weight must be mostly in the frame. The SLX drivetrain stuff is reasonably light, the 34 Rhythm fork is only about 0.2lbs more than a 34 Performance and 0.4lbs more than a Pike Select, could probably lose maybe 0.4lbs total with say an SLX crank and Oneup dropper. Otherwise must be in the wheels/tires?
slx 12 speed cassette is 534 grams for the 10-51. a whole pound is 453 some grams. non tubeless setup. i think you have a 29-30lb bike hidden there with the right upgrades
My first bike was a 1988 Jamis Dakota fully ridged trail killer. My first rides were SlickRock, Porcupine Ridge, and Poison Spider Mesa in Moab. I thought I’d died and gone to heaven I had so much fun. I still remember being amazed that a bike could be ridden so aggressively off road. To this day, I haven’t put as many miles on a single bike as I did on my trusty red Dakota. From Cape Cod to California to Colorado to Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming, I rode that bike everywhere! (Might have had something to do with being single and free.) I finally upgraded to a blinged out ParkPre Pro 825 in 1994, with a Tange Ultimate frame, Pulstar Hubs, Critical Racing brakes, Onza clipless pedals and bar ends, and Grip Shift shifters. The bike looked amazing and was light as a feather, but to be honest, I always felt I rode harder, faster, and more skillfully on my Jamis. It just felt like home. (Of course....everything changed with the new century. I’d probably kill myself riding that thing now.)
Really neat to see Jamis still making the Dragon.. I have a 2013 Dragon and got it down to 27 lbs. It rides great! It is crazy that this new one is so heavy.
My son and I both have Dragon 29 Pros and I have owned several 853 Dragon 29s over the years (and a 26" pro). The framesets ride nice and are light without being so thin that they are delicate. I have one at 25 lbs complete without using any carbon parts. I've always loved the pre Dragonslayer builds with the American Classic wheelsets and lighter weights. I'm a little sad to see the Dragon get so portly but Jamis moved to carbon for their "racey" stuff so it makes sense. They Jamis bikes I have owned run on the larger side. I owned a 21" 853 Dragon for a bit but it was slightly too long for my build (long legs/short torso), and have stuck with the 19" since. I think I would be a tweener on the new Dragon as well. I also ride a 58cm Renegade gravel bike where I would need a 60cm from most other companies. Jamis is one of the most underrated brand IMO. The old Jamis Eclipse, the 853 road bike brother to the Dragon, was a great bike for the money. And, Jamis was doing gravel before gravel was cool but it mostly went unnoticed in 2015 and their Renegade series is still overlooked by many.
Adding a comment and a like for the algorithm.. A riding buddy of mine used to have the "Red Dragon" circa 2013-ish. Line choice was a foreign concept to him. If you wanted to know how rugged a component was, let him test ride it for a month--he was a destroyer of all things. He replaced nearly every piece on that bike, but not one single issue with the frame itself! Happy to see a modern update to this line, and I agree, not too over the top with a geo that will work for the vast majority of people. Definitely not light, but this thing is a bulldozer.
I started mountain biking on a rigid Jamis and had a Dragon Sport 27.5 that was stolen from my shed. Both great bikes. Unfortunately, most Jamis "dealers" in the Austin area don't stock the bikes, but can order them. I had to take a chance that I would like the Dragon, fortunately it worked out.
I have the Dragonslayer and love it but you are right about the gusset. It definitely takes away some style points from an otherwise good looking frame
I'm surprised you were able to get one. I tried to get the similar Dragon years ago and my "local" dealer didn't have any. It's definitely a cool bike.
Looks like a lot of brands are updating geo this year. This is quite different than the more bike pack centric version from last year. Just saw that Salsa updated the Timberjack too
As a perennial rider of XL, I've been convincing myself that the extra 5mm crank length helps me develop more torque to haul my excess baggage up that hill! Another fine video! How long is the stem on that bike? I currently have a 40mm reach on my stem and I was thinking a 60 or 70mm would help me keep the front wheel on the ground during the steep climbs.
Can't wait for the follow up. I've been looking at a lot of hardtails to graduate from my Kona Lava Dome (with Fox 32's) which I put through way, way too much.
Clicked immediately! I've been waiting on these bikes to become available for almost a year now and i'm hoping I actually get to pick one up sometime soon. I'm 5'11" and I figure the 19" would fit pretty well.
After talking to Jamis, it sounds like they've shipped them out to all their dealers who have requested one. You may want to start calling around to see if you can find one.
Good looking bike overall, solid spec. I have a Fox Rhythm 34 on one of my bikes and it’s very impressive. 🤙🏻 The weight is a bit of a surprise, I have Surly fatbikes in that weight range.
Long cranks and short legs = butt bob on the saddle at higher cadence. Also there can be a dead zone at the top of the power stroke. The free hub sounds like it could have plenty teeth for quick engagement.
Yeah man, I had a 2003 Eureka. That thing was sweet and could take a beating. I even had a dual crown fork on mine for awhile. Also had a 2005 Jamis Dragon and it was awesomely fast and smooth.
I have a rigid Jamis from the 90s that is still in service (now as a converted kid-hauling cargo bike). Love that bike and I'll always have a soft spot for Jamis. That weight at that price does give me pause, though.
Thank! I really wanted to see reviews of this bike, ride impressions and decide for myself whether to change Dragonslayer to it. Or maybe buy a third ...
I have a dragonslayer pro 26+ too. Super fun bike. Recently put on Surly Dirt Wizard 26x3.0s because I wore out the WTB rangers. The DWs are super heavy tires, but crazy grip. What tires are you running?
@@chops0075 Im still running the WTB Rangers, really love those tires. Rolling resistance is almost non existent, grip is decent and they are light considering. I ran the Dragon Slayer as a 27.5 for a bit, but went back to 26+ almost immediately. Can’t beat the comfort, I completely agree it’s a great fun Bike.
I just got my first mountain bike, and it's the dragon 17 in Black! Weather here is not too cool so having ridden it yet, can't wait to hear your reviews I think it'll be just great for me... Be doing mainly trails in Ohio, and hopefully hit snowshoe this year for the first time, and then head out west to Winter Park, for the second time but this time I'll be trying my bike instead of theirs...
I have been watching you channel constantly for a year now. I did end up buying a 2021 Norco Fluid FS1 instead of a hardtail just based on the trails around here but I wanted to mention about the stans flow D wheels. My Norco came specced with 29" Stan's Flow D wheels tubeless ready with 2.4" maxxis dissector front and rear. The rims were taped but not very well so I had to redo the taping. I weighed the wheels with and without the tires and wuth and without tubes so let me know if you are curious on the exact weight. Mine has an SLX 12 cassette as well but front and rear wheels combined for 10-12lb! 🤢. I definitely can feel the weight in my bike. It is an XL though. Keep up the great videos!
So cool. I have a 2001 Dakota XC (Reynolds 631) Jamis that I still ride. At the time I wanted the Dragon, but my wallet won by choosing the Dakota. Was recently thinking about finally upgrading to a 29 Carbon bike but the new Dragon is interesting to consider, I love steel. I love the green...my 2001 is a 17" so likely a 17" again. Edit: OUCH! 33lbs? NFW No thanks... in 2001 the Dragon was 22 lbs (Reynolds 831). I *think* I remember reading Reynolds 520 is heavy tubing (but comfortable riding), likely what's causing the weight here.
I’ve been wanting to try one of these out. I would love to see you review a trek stache . I know it’s discontinued now but it would be sweet if you could get your hands on one and share your thoughts!
I love the stache. Super fun bike at slow speeds. I have very little confidence on them in steep, black diamond terrain, but they're really fun bikes. I'm sad trek didn't update the stache, it would be one of my all-time favorites with a longer reach and a slacker head angle.
@@hardtailparty definitely!, I’m new to mountain biking and bought a stache last year. What are your thoughts on putting a 140 mm fork on one or 27.5 wheels, or doing both?
I love my Stache, added a Slack-r and it really helps. Although I did have to change my stem to gain 10mm reach back that I lost. Still wish it had a bit more reach, but I don't have black diamond trails near me so my Stache is pretty close to perfect for my area.
Weird year . I just bought a Kona Honzo and it’s an awesome bike in its price range. But I couldn’t shop brands . It was literally the single only Mtb available within hundreds of miles of my town in Ontario Canada.
The bike has a retro look to it so the green color kind of goes with that theme . My 2018 Breezer storm expert ( try finding A joe breezer hardtail ) was $ 900 when I bought it and its weight was 30 pounds . I added a dropper ,shorter stem and an 11/46 steel cassette . These Items were all budget and heavy which brought the weight up to 33 pounds . I have not owned light bike so I dont know any better . I think the bike will get attention on the trail with that retro look with modern characteristics . I am done riding a wider tire and probably go to a 2.3 in the front after it wore out . I think it is a cool bike at first look . The weight should help to keep it planted pointing downward . It will be interesting to see how the corning is . I would think it will be a bit of a struggle climbing just because of the weight compared to the lighter bikes you ride but what is heavier will make your stronger
Gotta work but I seen this the other day. I was surprised my 4th ht was a jamis (not steel) this bike looks sick. I'll watch later thanks! I never knew about this bike ?
I guess it's time to upgrade from my 2004 Jamis exile, lord knows there aren't any more upgrades I can do to the bike. My dealer does have a black 17" in stock with a 19" on the way. My exile is a 19" but that was on 26" wheels (it's now a mullet with 27.5" front), I guess I stay 19" with this 2021 Dragon?
@@hardtailparty They probably meant not possible to get for my area? I'm in the SF Bay Area.. they said that maybe one shipped to a shop up north and thats it =(
Weight is just cumulative between wheels, cranks, dropper and fork... Also wondering if the difference between the standard 853 to the newer is a heavier steel. Could also be that they need larger diameter tubing to have same reactivity and compliance as the 853. If I got the Dragon (always wanted one) I would get the green one.
Disappointed, I have a ‘96 Jamis Fire Dragon Reynolds Steel completely upgraded (except brakes, of course) as my go to XC bike and it still holds its own against today’s bikes. It weighs in at 24 lbs in a medium frame and is completely dialed in to my anatomy.
I always respected Jamis for keeping a Steel hardtail in their line-up, and naming it the Dragon! I imagine some of the weight is in the frame. 520 isn't super light, its about like db or triple butted 4130, and that gusseted head tube, wow, a chunk of metal there. I'm sure the current trend of aggressive hardtails, and "sending it" have really driven the over built nature of steel frames these days. Try finding a steel hardtail frame under 5.5 lbs... The old 853 Dragons were probably 4.5 lbs or less (I really wanted one of those 15 years ago). People trying to be Jeff Weed would snap those in half! LoL. That guy can fly a bike. I mostly keep at least one tire on the ground these days. Haha.
None of the online print reviews or Jamis website show the gusset welded behind the steerer-tube, added for a reason after release of media photos, left on demo bike?
Side mounted cables are a better option during a tail gate bike shuttle where the padding contacts the bottom tube. Also, did u set it up tubeless? That could knock almost a # off the overall weight.
Dig the green. Weight: Drop the goofy head tube gusset, the little bar between the seat tube and head tube, and the goofy curved upper chain stays and the weight would probably drop more that .5 pounds. All that stuff is supposed to project next-level "engineering". Wrong! I think I'll stick to my insane 2014 Dragon Race 853 XC bike. Love it. 853 is rare and expensive. If you have an 853 bike, keep it and use it!
At jamis dealers? I work at a jamis dealer and over the past 24 months we have received 1. They say they don't have anymore so if you know a shop that has these I'd be very curious. Really I've tried to get one if these since they dropped and nobody has any.
Sorry but 520 is what Reynolds licence to other tube makers. The only part that came out of the manufacturer is the sticker. It's fairly common knowledge in Britain. They offered the stickers to Brant Richards of On One for a fee so he chose DN6, his post code.... The weight is likely due to the bargain basement taiwanese tubing, not that other taiwanese tubing isn't excellent.
Sweet looking frame, just found it a Fee days ago. Geometry would be spot on for me in medium. Would you dissassemble the bike for us to weigh the frame? :)
The green is pretty sweet, but you're right - that gusset just looks tacked on and out of place. It's also a shame it weighs as much as most full suspension bikes around the same price. Hard to see this being recommended over something like a Big Al unless you just want to buy from a shop.
that SLX cassette is a whole pound and some, are the tires wire bead as well? that would add a lot of weight, same with those cranks. lightweight bikes are mad oz's at a time.
@@hardtailparty for the money its pretty dang nice. odd they didn't go with the hyperglide+ chain and used kmc, but maybe that's a supply thing right now. I think if someone were to buy this, just setting up tubeless and a new lighter cassette would be great first upgrades.
I was feeling enthusiastic about the bike until I heard the weight, 33.5 pounds?!? I'm absolutely not obsessed with bike weight, but that's in the ballpark of my chunky full susp bike
By the way I just looked at the bike on their website and the bike they show does not have the ugly head tube gusset, wonder which version is most current? Definitely like the version they show on the website better.
@@hardtailparty I meant the tire tubes as they come with the bike but yes maybe its the 520 tubing? After seeing this vid i went and gandered at my voodoo dambala Reynolds 853 similar in color too. Keep em coming Steve.
That weight sounds really strange to me. I mean, the frame alone on a steel hardtail can only make so much of a difference, right? I would think it should be possible to keep a sturdy steel bike close to the 31 lbs / 14 kg mark. Looks nice though, I like the geo and the color.
Hello. I have a question. So I have a 2017 ghost asked 4 al, and I'm having a hard time setting up my rear brake rub free. I have sram level t brakes, and my friend brought my attention to the frame flexing a lot. When I put my bodyweight on the pedal the frame flexes so much that the pad touches the rotor. Is there a fix for this, as I assume supple frames have this issue. So far I have had various levels of success, such as cleaning the pistons, or realigning the caliper. I'm thinking about selling the level brakes, and getting a set of 7100 slx brakes. But I would like to hear your thoughts. The frame material is aluminum.
@@lukasbormann4830 Yes, but if you look at his review on the marin el roy the brake mount style is the same as mine, and the frame flexes sideways as well, and I was wondering if Shimano brakes would be the same, but it's not the same frame so I guess I have to experiment.
@@R_milan when a wheel is in and you can do that, get a new frame lol, that's dangerous 😂if the wheel and axle are out when you can do that, that's normal to an extent on every frame
The weight is something I've been confused about for a while. It seems like a lot of the steel hard tails you have been reviewing have been in this ~32 lb. range. I remember a few years ago people talking about some steel hard tails like the El Mariachi being 'heavy' at 27 lbs but the aluminum timberjack that replaced it is advertised around 30 lbs. Aside from adding less than a pound for a dropper where is all the weight coming from?
I would like to buy dragon green, but my salary of $ 402 does not allow me to do it. I have been working for 9 years in a factory as a cnc operator. Hello from russia.
I have a 2015 Dragon Pro with Reynolds 853. It’s still running strong. I’ve dropped a Bomber 150mm on it instead of the Fox 120, shortened the stem and widened the handle bars. It rides so nice. I live in S Utah and it’s still my go to for the techy rock trails. I love steel. My sister still rides her ‘94’ Dragon! Thanks for the fair review. And thanks for promoting the hardtail 👍🏼
Man, I think you hit the nail on the head with 90's steel bikes vs today's steel bikes. I wish this Dragon was more of a modern version of the bike from back in the day, light, good quality steel. I would love a steel hardtail that wasn't a tank.
Agreed. That seem to be the case when I'm looking at specs these days.
I have a 2013 Cotic Soul 26" as my current bike and that frame (size Small or X-Small) is 1.9 kg. I'd love to have an updated version of that with modern geo, boost spacing and all that jazz, but that doesn't seem to exist...
well, people run harder and harder trails, so the bikes have to adapt for it aswell..
@@tomasstraka5244 Nah, bikes are just overbuilt now. Any steel hardtail from 20 years ago could take an absolute beating. Heck, I was riding steel hardtails on every trail in Sedona where these videos are made 20 years ago, no problem with the frames, lots of flats back in the dark days of tubes though. Sure, some folks need bikes build built for serious abuse, but that is the majority. Most of us would be better served with something lighter that has better ride quality.
@@ArisaemaDracontium do back to back rides and then compare it and you will know...
I like the offset cable routing on my torrent, it’s keeps them protected from tailgates during shuttle runs and reduced the amount of grime that gets caught in the cables.
Good news. These are in stock right now at select Jamis dealers! I'm curious if it's a heavy frame because of the components, or the frame. Stay tuned for the ride review.
I'd bet a good chunk of that weight is due to the fork...
I’m thinking the weight must be mostly in the frame. The SLX drivetrain stuff is reasonably light, the 34 Rhythm fork is only about 0.2lbs more than a 34 Performance and 0.4lbs more than a Pike Select, could probably lose maybe 0.4lbs total with say an SLX crank and Oneup dropper. Otherwise must be in the wheels/tires?
slx 12 speed cassette is 534 grams for the 10-51. a whole pound is 453 some grams. non tubeless setup. i think you have a 29-30lb bike hidden there with the right upgrades
If the tires are WTB tough casing, they're heavy tires but bullet proof.
My first bike was a 1988 Jamis Dakota fully ridged trail killer. My first rides were SlickRock, Porcupine Ridge, and Poison Spider Mesa in Moab. I thought I’d died and gone to heaven I had so much fun. I still remember being amazed that a bike could be ridden so aggressively off road. To this day, I haven’t put as many miles on a single bike as I did on my trusty red Dakota. From Cape Cod to California to Colorado to Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming, I rode that bike everywhere! (Might have had something to do with being single and free.)
I finally upgraded to a blinged out ParkPre Pro 825 in 1994, with a Tange Ultimate frame, Pulstar Hubs, Critical Racing brakes, Onza clipless pedals and bar ends, and Grip Shift shifters. The bike looked amazing and was light as a feather, but to be honest, I always felt I rode harder, faster, and more skillfully on my Jamis. It just felt like home. (Of course....everything changed with the new century. I’d probably kill myself riding that thing now.)
Dude! Rocking the goatee! Awesome 😎
And he's rocking the same shirt as you in your Pro Flex video, no? You're both doing great work here. Gotta get me some Club Ride gear...
You need a goatee to talk about dragons
finally I love this bike, very versatile and customizable.
Thanks for the extra camera work at the end Steve.
Really neat to see Jamis still making the Dragon.. I have a 2013 Dragon and got it down to 27 lbs. It rides great! It is crazy that this new one is so heavy.
I have a '13 as well I love the bike and I think mine is around 28lbs and descends like a dream
Black, Medium...can’t wait for the review!
My son and I both have Dragon 29 Pros and I have owned several 853 Dragon 29s over the years (and a 26" pro). The framesets ride nice and are light without being so thin that they are delicate. I have one at 25 lbs complete without using any carbon parts. I've always loved the pre Dragonslayer builds with the American Classic wheelsets and lighter weights. I'm a little sad to see the Dragon get so portly but Jamis moved to carbon for their "racey" stuff so it makes sense.
They Jamis bikes I have owned run on the larger side. I owned a 21" 853 Dragon for a bit but it was slightly too long for my build (long legs/short torso), and have stuck with the 19" since. I think I would be a tweener on the new Dragon as well. I also ride a 58cm Renegade gravel bike where I would need a 60cm from most other companies.
Jamis is one of the most underrated brand IMO. The old Jamis Eclipse, the 853 road bike brother to the Dragon, was a great bike for the money. And, Jamis was doing gravel before gravel was cool but it mostly went unnoticed in 2015 and their Renegade series is still overlooked by many.
Adding a comment and a like for the algorithm..
A riding buddy of mine used to have the "Red Dragon" circa 2013-ish. Line choice was a foreign concept to him. If you wanted to know how rugged a component was, let him test ride it for a month--he was a destroyer of all things. He replaced nearly every piece on that bike, but not one single issue with the frame itself! Happy to see a modern update to this line, and I agree, not too over the top with a geo that will work for the vast majority of people. Definitely not light, but this thing is a bulldozer.
I’d get a black one. But I have a Kona ESD on order can’t wait for it to arrive.
I started mountain biking on a rigid Jamis and had a Dragon Sport 27.5 that was stolen from my shed. Both great bikes. Unfortunately, most Jamis "dealers" in the Austin area don't stock the bikes, but can order them. I had to take a chance that I would like the Dragon, fortunately it worked out.
Green, XL. There should be more bike brands with bikes painted in that Green !!
I have the Dragonslayer and love it but you are right about the gusset. It definitely takes away some style points from an otherwise good looking frame
I'm surprised you were able to get one. I tried to get the similar Dragon years ago and my "local" dealer didn't have any. It's definitely a cool bike.
Looks like a lot of brands are updating geo this year. This is quite different than the more bike pack centric version from last year. Just saw that Salsa updated the Timberjack too
As a perennial rider of XL, I've been convincing myself that the extra 5mm crank length helps me develop more torque to haul my excess baggage up that hill! Another fine video! How long is the stem on that bike? I currently have a 40mm reach on my stem and I was thinking a 60 or 70mm would help me keep the front wheel on the ground during the steep climbs.
That green is SHARP. Can't wait to hear how it rides 🤙🤙
That green is really nice, to many black bikes around these days. Looks great bike
Luckily, it comes in black too! haha
this bike is so much better than my bike.
Can't wait for the follow up. I've been looking at a lot of hardtails to graduate from my Kona Lava Dome (with Fox 32's) which I put through way, way too much.
Clicked immediately! I've been waiting on these bikes to become available for almost a year now and i'm hoping I actually get to pick one up sometime soon. I'm 5'11" and I figure the 19" would fit pretty well.
After talking to Jamis, it sounds like they've shipped them out to all their dealers who have requested one. You may want to start calling around to see if you can find one.
Good looking bike overall, solid spec. I have a Fox Rhythm 34 on one of my bikes and it’s very impressive. 🤙🏻 The weight is a bit of a surprise, I have Surly fatbikes in that weight range.
I’d go black! Medium. Can’t wait for the review! There’s a black one at one of my dealers but I’m waiting on some reviews! Keep up the good work.
Long cranks and short legs = butt bob on the saddle at higher cadence. Also there can be a dead zone at the top of the power stroke.
The free hub sounds like it could have plenty teeth for quick engagement.
Jamis still makes bikes?! Before I got my Commencal HT I rode a 2002 Jamis Eureka!
I currently ride a 2003 Jamis Exile
Yeah man, I had a 2003 Eureka. That thing was sweet and could take a beating. I even had a dual crown fork on mine for awhile. Also had a 2005 Jamis Dragon and it was awesomely fast and smooth.
Still riding my 2004 exile (with over about $1K in upgrades through the years), only thing original is the frame, BB and crank arms.
I love my Jamis Dragonslayer, which is pretty similar to this one
I have a 2016 Dragonslayer...love it has massive tires lol.look forward to the ride review of this one
Can’t wait for the review I’m really trying to decide on this vs the honzo esd
Absolutely love that green! Looks so good!
I have a rigid Jamis from the 90s that is still in service (now as a converted kid-hauling cargo bike). Love that bike and I'll always have a soft spot for Jamis. That weight at that price does give me pause, though.
Thank! I really wanted to see reviews of this bike, ride impressions and decide for myself whether to change Dragonslayer to it. Or maybe buy a third ...
love the headtube badge
Jamis are a bit underrated, I have DragonSlayer Pro 26+ and it’s a beast. It feels like a modernized early 2000s MTB, very good quality
I have a dragonslayer pro 26+ too. Super fun bike. Recently put on Surly Dirt Wizard 26x3.0s because I wore out the WTB rangers. The DWs are super heavy tires, but crazy grip. What tires are you running?
@@chops0075 Im still running the WTB Rangers, really love those tires. Rolling resistance is almost non existent, grip is decent and they are light considering. I ran the Dragon Slayer as a 27.5 for a bit, but went back to 26+ almost immediately. Can’t beat the comfort, I completely agree it’s a great fun Bike.
I just got my first mountain bike, and it's the dragon 17 in Black! Weather here is not too cool so having ridden it yet, can't wait to hear your reviews I think it'll be just great for me... Be doing mainly trails in Ohio, and hopefully hit snowshoe this year for the first time, and then head out west to Winter Park, for the second time but this time I'll be trying my bike instead of theirs...
Congrats on the new bike!
I love the gussets around the head tube, reminds me of old bmx frames. Also, there's nothing wrong with a dirty gusset :P
I have been watching you channel constantly for a year now. I did end up buying a 2021 Norco Fluid FS1 instead of a hardtail just based on the trails around here but I wanted to mention about the stans flow D wheels.
My Norco came specced with 29" Stan's Flow D wheels tubeless ready with 2.4" maxxis dissector front and rear. The rims were taped but not very well so I had to redo the taping.
I weighed the wheels with and without the tires and wuth and without tubes so let me know if you are curious on the exact weight. Mine has an SLX 12 cassette as well but front and rear wheels combined for 10-12lb! 🤢.
I definitely can feel the weight in my bike. It is an XL though.
Keep up the great videos!
So cool. I have a 2001 Dakota XC (Reynolds 631) Jamis that I still ride. At the time I wanted the Dragon, but my wallet won by choosing the Dakota. Was recently thinking about finally upgrading to a 29 Carbon bike but the new Dragon is interesting to consider, I love steel. I love the green...my 2001 is a 17" so likely a 17" again.
Edit: OUCH! 33lbs? NFW No thanks... in 2001 the Dragon was 22 lbs (Reynolds 831). I *think* I remember reading Reynolds 520 is heavy tubing (but comfortable riding), likely what's causing the weight here.
I agree the a slacker HTA does better with the modern shorter offset forks, especially if it’s a 140-150mm travel fork.
If I had to guess this year they will release the dragon and next year they will make small improvements and release the dragon slayer again.
I’ve been wanting to try one of these out. I would love to see you review a trek stache . I know it’s discontinued now but it would be sweet if you could get your hands on one and share your thoughts!
I love the stache. Super fun bike at slow speeds. I have very little confidence on them in steep, black diamond terrain, but they're really fun bikes. I'm sad trek didn't update the stache, it would be one of my all-time favorites with a longer reach and a slacker head angle.
@@hardtailparty definitely!, I’m new to mountain biking and bought a stache last year. What are your thoughts on putting a 140 mm fork on one or 27.5 wheels, or doing both?
I love my Stache, added a Slack-r and it really helps. Although I did have to change my stem to gain 10mm reach back that I lost. Still wish it had a bit more reach, but I don't have black diamond trails near me so my Stache is pretty close to perfect for my area.
Weird year . I just bought a Kona Honzo and it’s an awesome bike in its price range. But I couldn’t shop brands .
It was literally the single only Mtb available within hundreds of miles of my town in Ontario Canada.
The bike has a retro look to it so the green color kind of goes with that theme . My 2018 Breezer storm expert ( try finding A joe breezer hardtail ) was $ 900 when I bought it and its weight was 30 pounds . I added a dropper ,shorter stem and an 11/46 steel cassette . These Items were all budget and heavy which brought the weight up to 33 pounds . I have not owned light bike so I dont know any better . I think the bike will get attention on the trail with that retro look with modern characteristics . I am done riding a wider tire and probably go to a 2.3 in the front after it wore out . I think it is a cool bike at first look . The weight should help to keep it planted pointing downward . It will be interesting to see how the corning is . I would think it will be a bit of a struggle climbing just because of the weight compared to the lighter bikes you ride but what is heavier will make your stronger
Gotta work but I seen this the other day. I was surprised my 4th ht was a jamis (not steel) this bike looks sick. I'll watch later thanks! I never knew about this bike ?
I guess it's time to upgrade from my 2004 Jamis exile, lord knows there aren't any more upgrades I can do to the bike. My dealer does have a black 17" in stock with a 19" on the way. My exile is a 19" but that was on 26" wheels (it's now a mullet with 27.5" front), I guess I stay 19" with this 2021 Dragon?
Would love to see your thoughts in Esker Hayduke and Japhy. Primarily from ride quality perspective.
That thing looks sweet!
Thank you for the first look! Ok, that thing is really heavy, a good 4 pounds more than my Vitus Sentier.
That Dragon is a heavy beast. Seems like it has nice spec and decent geo, though. I'm curious how "compliant" that rear is.
Wow my local Jamis said this bike wasn't going to be possible to get. Must be nice!
Ask them again. Jamis told me they sent them to dealers already.
@@hardtailparty They probably meant not possible to get for my area? I'm in the SF Bay Area.. they said that maybe one shipped to a shop up north and thats it =(
Weight is just cumulative between wheels, cranks, dropper and fork... Also wondering if the difference between the standard 853 to the newer is a heavier steel. Could also be that they need larger diameter tubing to have same reactivity and compliance as the 853.
If I got the Dragon (always wanted one) I would get the green one.
Disappointed, I have a ‘96 Jamis Fire Dragon Reynolds Steel completely upgraded (except brakes, of course) as my go to XC bike and it still holds its own against today’s bikes. It weighs in at 24 lbs in a medium frame and is completely dialed in to my anatomy.
I always respected Jamis for keeping a Steel hardtail in their line-up, and naming it the Dragon! I imagine some of the weight is in the frame. 520 isn't super light, its about like db or triple butted 4130, and that gusseted head tube, wow, a chunk of metal there. I'm sure the current trend of aggressive hardtails, and "sending it" have really driven the over built nature of steel frames these days. Try finding a steel hardtail frame under 5.5 lbs... The old 853 Dragons were probably 4.5 lbs or less (I really wanted one of those 15 years ago). People trying to be Jeff Weed would snap those in half! LoL. That guy can fly a bike. I mostly keep at least one tire on the ground these days. Haha.
None of the online print reviews or Jamis website show the gusset welded behind the steerer-tube, added for a reason after release of media photos, left on demo bike?
personally I would get the green in small
Side mounted cables are a better option during a tail gate bike shuttle where the padding contacts the bottom tube.
Also, did u set it up tubeless?
That could knock almost a # off the overall weight.
yes, I set it up tubeless.
Is the headtube angle you stated static or at sag? If static, perhap thats why the greater offset fork.
Thoughts?
Thumbs up for the gotee!
Looking forward to the rise review. There’s something about Jamis Dragons, so long in around. The Motion Ride E18 test is still in the making?
Yes, still in the making
Weird. On their website that gusset at the head tube is missing and the cables are routed underneath the downtube.
on the xl there is no gusset, my frame is xl and has none I believe they implemented it on the smaller sizes
Is the 2012 version of this any good still?
hey love your channel i would love to see a review of the 2021 kona honzo dl please i really want to buy it but not much reviews..
Coming soon ...
Dig the green. Weight: Drop the goofy head tube gusset, the little bar between the seat tube and head tube, and the goofy curved upper chain stays and the weight would probably drop more that .5 pounds. All that stuff is supposed to project next-level "engineering". Wrong! I think I'll stick to my insane 2014 Dragon Race 853 XC bike. Love it. 853 is rare and expensive. If you have an 853 bike, keep it and use it!
Get that shamrock green, XXL
Almost forgot this brand.
The chainstay length. Woah.
I'm seeing a lot of 435mm bikes these days. Check out the cotic solarisMAX and BFeMAX for some long chainstays!
I’ve been trying to buy this bike in large. Had no luck yet. Green. Size 19
I know they're out there. Sad to hear it's proving challenging to find one
Steel 💪💪💪
At jamis dealers? I work at a jamis dealer and over the past 24 months we have received 1. They say they don't have anymore so if you know a shop that has these I'd be very curious. Really I've tried to get one if these since they dropped and nobody has any.
What do you think about the Vitus Nucleus Hard Tail ?
where is the follow up vid on the paul klamper mech brakes? ✌️
It takes me a while to ride components in a variety of situations. Still working on it.
Green Medium. I would love to know the frame weight, it would be a Very expensive bike IF we could get them here in Aus
Sorry but 520 is what Reynolds licence to other tube makers. The only part that came out of the manufacturer is the sticker. It's fairly common knowledge in Britain. They offered the stickers to Brant Richards of On One for a fee so he chose DN6, his post code....
The weight is likely due to the bargain basement taiwanese tubing, not that other taiwanese tubing isn't excellent.
Sweet looking frame, just found it a Fee days ago. Geometry would be spot on for me in medium.
Would you dissassemble the bike for us to weigh the frame? :)
I'm curious about frame weight too, but man, that's a lot of work. I'll see if Jamis has a frame weight.
@@hardtailparty Alright, i'm looking forward to it.
Steel chainring?
The green is pretty sweet, but you're right - that gusset just looks tacked on and out of place. It's also a shame it weighs as much as most full suspension bikes around the same price. Hard to see this being recommended over something like a Big Al unless you just want to buy from a shop.
that SLX cassette is a whole pound and some, are the tires wire bead as well? that would add a lot of weight, same with those cranks. lightweight bikes are mad oz's at a time.
Tires aren't wire bead. But yes, that slx stuff isn't light.
@@hardtailparty for the money its pretty dang nice. odd they didn't go with the hyperglide+ chain and used kmc, but maybe that's a supply thing right now. I think if someone were to buy this, just setting up tubeless and a new lighter cassette would be great first upgrades.
Do Jamis sell HT Frames only?
I was feeling enthusiastic about the bike until I heard the weight, 33.5 pounds?!? I'm absolutely not obsessed with bike weight, but that's in the ballpark of my chunky full susp bike
By the way I just looked at the bike on their website and the bike they show does not have the ugly head tube gusset, wonder which version is most current? Definitely like the version they show on the website better.
Have you ever converted external cable routing to internal?
No, I hate internal routing.
I would think the tubes could be the weight culprit?
This is set up tubeless. Or did you mean the frame tubeset?
@@hardtailparty I meant the tire tubes as they come with the bike but yes maybe its the 520 tubing? After seeing this vid i went and gandered at my voodoo dambala Reynolds 853 similar in color too. Keep em coming Steve.
Do you ride all your review bikes tubeless?
Yes
That weight sounds really strange to me. I mean, the frame alone on a steel hardtail can only make so much of a difference, right? I would think it should be possible to keep a sturdy steel bike close to the 31 lbs / 14 kg mark. Looks nice though, I like the geo and the color.
I have no idea what the frame weighs, but the components aren't super light. I guess you can't have it all: cheap, strong, and lightweight.
it's all those stickers!
Green, medium
Green medium
Black! Small!
is that weight with the tubes or tubeless?
Tubeless
Hello.
I have a question. So I have a 2017 ghost asked 4 al, and I'm having a hard time setting up my rear brake rub free. I have sram level t brakes, and my friend brought my attention to the frame flexing a lot. When I put my bodyweight on the pedal the frame flexes so much that the pad touches the rotor. Is there a fix for this, as I assume supple frames have this issue. So far I have had various levels of success, such as cleaning the pistons, or realigning the caliper. I'm thinking about selling the level brakes, and getting a set of 7100 slx brakes. But I would like to hear your thoughts. The frame material is aluminum.
Cant really fix that flex, compliant frames dont have this problem because they flex vertically and not sideways like yours
@@lukasbormann4830 Yes, but if you look at his review on the marin el roy the brake mount style is the same as mine, and the frame flexes sideways as well, and I was wondering if Shimano brakes would be the same, but it's not the same frame so I guess I have to experiment.
@@R_milan it depends on the amount of side flex, but shimanos have a bit more space so it should work better 😂
@@lukasbormann4830 We'll see. I can move the frame at the axle with one hand btw.
@@R_milan when a wheel is in and you can do that, get a new frame lol, that's dangerous 😂if the wheel and axle are out when you can do that, that's normal to an extent on every frame
I've always had medium frames and it's no different with the newer geometry.
"It reminds me of the '80s a little bit..." LOL
Green size large.
It would have to be green and a medium.
Its heavier than my Chromag Stylus! just barely, though...
The weight is something I've been confused about for a while. It seems like a lot of the steel hard tails you have been reviewing have been in this ~32 lb. range. I remember a few years ago people talking about some steel hard tails like the El Mariachi being 'heavy' at 27 lbs but the aluminum timberjack that replaced it is advertised around 30 lbs. Aside from adding less than a pound for a dropper where is all the weight coming from?
Beefier frames, bigger wheels, 12 speed cassettes, burlier components, beefier tires.
3 paw hub.... they could’ve done better. I guess they had to cut costs somewhere.
I would like to buy dragon green, but my salary of $ 402 does not allow me to do it. I have been working for 9 years in a factory as a cnc operator. Hello from russia.
Sounds like it's time to cnc your own frame!
Jamis are as rare as rocking horse poo in UK, never use to be don't no what happened?