Happy Mother’s Day to moms and wifes! Don’t forget about Rob Chaney, he is a S&T guru, plus Jess Frank. If u do a collaboration with Tom that would be amazing as he’s over in SC. S&T is everywhere in some form. It is the new modern swing. It’s given me confidence especially when I don’t play a lot and I know if I stick to those fundamentals I’ll play well. Can’t wait to watch this journey!!!
Stack and Tilt! The only way to swing a golf club!! I tried other methods, this is the best way!! 70% if your weight on your front foot at set up, flared feet. Cheney is very, very good along with Saguto. Consistent ball first contact!! More of a push swing. Great start you will love it!! Many pro's are using this method now. The old shifting back and forth thing takes many years to perfect.
I am excited! I taught my Wife to play this way 7-8 years ago, she is still at it. We went to a 3 day school in Pennsylvania. I loved the way it compressed the irons. Honestly I have not compressed Irons like that before or since.I did feel like I lost some distance with my woods, driver. But they were still accurate. My issues started with back pain also. I finally gave up on it just so I could play golf. I probably was doing something wrong to cause the back issues. I have heard some can alleviate the back issue with the Gary Player walk through. I have been really struggling this year with solid contact on chips, pitches, and irons. So I am going back to it. I highly recommend the book as a reference also. I will be joining you in this renewed journey!
Great to hear, Mitch! I've heard others talk about driver and even long irons giving them trouble, so I've got my work cut out. I have a lot to work on.
Just discovered your channel and really enjoy it . Just moved to S&T myself , which started off incredible ,but now hitting alot of thin shots .. but i will crack it .. congrats on your channel from London Uk.
Many thoughts lol...I have used parts of stack and tilt. Driver has given me trouble as well as long irons. Sam Goulden has a square to square swing with tons of vids I'd suggest. Very s&t but very little wrist hinge. He even did a review with Eric cogorno. 2 parts. Very good. I just wish the s&t guys would admit there is a pressure shift into back foot early in takeaway as clubhead moves back. There is even a vid of Grant Waite, I think is his name. Big s&t guy. He's on pressure plates and it's a substantial pressure shift. It then goes right back to lead foot. Clement talks about this in his tilted spiral series. Sorry for being long winded but I'm really looking forward to this series, bud!
Thanks Chad...for taking us on another journey. I've tried s&t before but never succesfully so I'm keen to see where I've missed the boat. I'm a great believer in golf innovation. I have a fairly consistent swing (3.4 index) from game to game--until I don't. I find now I can quickly self-correct in a few holes which was how I broke through the next level in my golf journey. Knowing I now have an extensive library of golf from guys like you to fall back on when things aren't going to plan is confidence boosting. I'm binging on this till I reach your 5th video.
go and see a network instructor. No offense but as just a normal golfer and "trying" out a system as complex as S&T without the guide of a person who's taken hours and hours of training u are not going to know whatnot fix and the hierarchy
Hey bro! SNT is an interesting thing. I have run down this rabbit hole a few times over the years. I am always enamored with the super quick improvement in flush contact and consistency with the irons. Its the think that pulls me back there some times. As I get older and struggle getting back to my left side it also alleviates that issue for me. That said for me, it starts to come apart with the driver specifically and to a lesser degree with my fairway woods. I lose distance with it, which I can't afford to lose these days. I am intrigued that you are taking a look at it and won't be surprised if you love it. I love the irons with it, just never could figure the other out. Hope you do!
I'm a senior golfer having played for more than 40 years. I've tried most things including stack and tilt. IMO this method has some merit, however, it does have some drawbacks. From my own viewpoint after several weeks trying S&T I experienced pain both in the upper spine and lower back. This probably has to do with how the spine is twisted and tilted. I've seen reports of other golfers who've experienced similar pain and injuries. This method may be an option for younger golfers but for senior's beware. Some golf swing analyst's on YT concur with my thoughts. I've reverted back to a more traditional swing which I've used most of my golfing life.
Great video, as usual. I still don't know how you can change your swing style within days. It takes me months! Regarding Stack & Tilt: I tried it for a few months. Irons were crisp, up until about the 5 iron. For some reason I just couldn't get my 5, 4, and 3-iron flying high. It was mostly a low boring flight that sometimes hooked hard. I tried weakening my left hand grip and that did help, but it was inconsistent. I think that S&T is best for short irons and wedges. It keeps you centered and strikes are very consistent. I wouldn't depend on this swing style for distance, though. Just accuracy.
Thanks, Chachi! First thing, I can't make swing changes fast either. You guys see me once a week, but I'm grinding all week until then. For the longer irons and even hybrids, those are tougher clubs with any swing. For me, the trick is to play the ball a bit more forward, make sure you get your weight going toward the target, and have a shallower path coming in.
Thank you for reviewing this method. I started SNT about a year ago based on a recommendation from a fellow golfer. He turned me on to Saguto Golf and I found a few others. It really changes your relationship with the ball. It also helped me improve consistency in ball striking. Looking forward to see what you discover in this series.
I am so looking forward to this journey!!! I recently started S&T myself. Be awesome too if you did get a lesson and maybe could film it or go over what you learned in the lesson.
I liked the new series idea. I noticed that what you thought was less 1/2 or 3/4 quarter swing was pretty close to a full swing as far as club position at the top goes. Perhaps we’d all be better off taking what we perceive as a 3/4 swing.
Hi Chad, great to watch your reviews. I have just one "complaint", I really would like to see a front view of your swing to see ball placement and such. All the best, Tobbe
It works for all clubs and to be honest your own swing journey really started to look like stack and tilt. What I like about the system is no one will look the same. The idea is to reduce variables but you can add or take away. Ive been working woth it over a year now. Many say the driver is difficult but Ive never had an issue but to be fair ive always hit the ball high. For me what really makes all the difference is better bal control. These days I rarely take full swings my bread and butter is those punchy 1/2 abd 3/4 shots. Rmember the main thing with Stack and tilt is consistent low point and enough power to play the course. Average drive these days are 260. I can get it out there further but at that swing speed I am mor likely to keep it in play. Looking forward to this test.
It will work for you if you turn around your left leg. If not, it won’t. Recommend you take a look at Mike Adams and Terry Rowles and their measurements and movement screens.
Tried stack and tilt, but my chiro steered me away from it. While it’s promoted to be a swing that is good for your back, it can actually cause more damage if not done correctly. Thanks for another great video!
I will keep my weight shift. S&T is a viable solution for those whom do not shallow the club in the downswing. You take it back shallow and bring it down on the same plane around a fixed axis. The shoulder tilt dictates the swing plane. Go see Tom he seems like a pretty cool guy. 😎
Interesting direction, I wasn't expecting that although I guess that you hinted at some interest in earlier comments. Everything looks pretty good with one very important exception which is something that I mentioned the last time that you were referencing S & T. This key that I'm going to mention here is probably the biggest key that I have ever discovered in the golf swing and I find that it takes me from bad swings to excellent swings in seconds when I utlize it and also helps me to understand how to usably imitate any golf swing very quickly so I hope that you consider this carefully because I'm giving you a trade secret here. This key is the motion of the lead arm and shoulder. In all good, and powerful, swings the lead arm moves in a particular fashion RELATIVE TO the lead shoulder path. That motion can be described as kind of a loop up, in, down, and out. The clubhead simultaneously does a similar loop around the longitudinal axis of the lead arm as the lead arm is following it's partcular motion. This is actually how the whipping motion of the clubhead evident in all great and powerful swings is created. However, I must reemphasize that this happens relative to the motion of the lead shoulder (joint) and it must be understood that lead shoulder motions in golf swings can be very different; something often not understood in golf instruction. For example, the shoulder can move out and down, out and level, (even out and up is possible but rare), or in some cases (usually with arms a little away from the chest at address, which frees them to do this), the shoulder can just must move straight across or that and just slighly down. In Marcus Edblad's swing, he has his arms freed from his chest at address and then he stands up slightly and his lead shoulder essentially comes straight across and slightly down which allows his lead arm to follow a very tight path up his chest as he turns and then when he drops into more of a squat on the way down he has created more room on his trail side for the lead arm and clubhead to continue their looping motions. The sum total of this is to create a whip where the unfolding trail arm is able to perform this motion along the same lines of force as the swinging lead arm. This means that everything follows the lead arm with a slight (or sometimes bigger; Cameron Champ with driver for example) loop. This combination of complementary motions turns the arms club combo into a whip, or a kind of trebuchet. This also means that this "trebuchet" can be released through the ball in conjunction with the downswing turn of the hips which multiplies power. The most important role of the trail elbow in this process is to keep enough width in its motion in order to be able to drop in behind the motion of the looping lead arm and thus form the rear member of the trubuchet linkage. Since the S & T swing does not move weight to the trail side, the motion of the lead shoulder socket traces a tighter loop than in standard swings. In Grant Waite's swing for example, the lead upper arm starts fairly close to his lead lat at address and then the lead shoulder comes out, down, and across so in a similar swing to his the lead arm arm will have to work out and across being fairly low at the start and then lifting rapidly as the turn deepens. In other words the lead arm reflects the path of the lead shoulder in the takeaway and while that is happening the clubhead is staying above the hands in order to perform its complimentary loop around the looping lead arm. Saguto has his hands more freed from his chest at address and this slight difference has fairly big consequences. Generally, as with Marcus, this allows you to swing the club a little more directly around the body with a little less emphasis on lift (still very important though) and this is pretty much the principal difference that is seen between Saguto and Waite. In both cases though, the lead arm must move out and free itself in order to gain power and leverage. Saguto's happens on a little flatter plane than Waite's due to the freeer arms but the same lead arm and clubhead power loop is happening in both swings. The lack of this kind of freed up lead arm motion (properly respecting the motion of the lead shoulder will make it hard to get much power in an S & T type motion and particularly as you get into longer shafts. Proper lead arm motion will also allow you to be able to utilize your hips more through impact as you release the "trebuchet". It looked to me that they only got to about 5-10 degrees open by iimpact in those swings. Let me know if have any questions. Cheers.
I understand pretty much everything there, I believe. Golftec does a great job of showing how SNT works, even though I'm really sure that they "advertise" themselves as SNT. I already have week 2 filmed and set for next Sunday, and I feel like I'm picking things up quickly, but I hope to make a REAL transformation. The vision your shoulder and lead arm motion description creates in my head is as the shoulders turn back and through, the lead arm is making a kind of clockwise rotational motion in the joint. THAT reminds me of the Kawaswing on Instagram. A "backstroke" swimming motion of sorts. In any event, I have plenty of work ahead of me, and I'll definitely try your thoughts in my workouts.
@@GolfTestDummy Yes, in this Kawaswing video "シャロヒン状態を作ってから打つ！つかまりやすい手首 川村洋介シャロヒンゴルフ kawaswing" (name of video is in the quotes), in the swing at 5:25 you can see that he is forcing both his lead knee and hip forward in the backswing which cause the lead shoulder to trace a bit of a curved arc out and around in front of him and he has kept the lead shoulder high by keeping his head up and keeping a wide turn of his lower body (and as mentioned, the lead shoulder). This is that rare case that I mentioned where the lead shoulder can actually come out, around, and HIGH. His wide turn of the lower body and his head being held high make this particular case of the clubhead to lead arm to shoulder motion quite evident. You can clearly see that he is lifting the lead arm from the shoulder in conjunction with the arc that the shoulder is tracing in front of him and that the lead arm motion is forming a loop as I described and that the clubhead is tracing a loop around the looping lead arm. Especially in the change of direction, you can see the "trebuchet" kicking into action as the clubhead drops below the lead arm and the trail arm is unloaded following the lead arm around the arc of the release. Also, at impact his hips are 40+ degrees open. This is a technically a very sound swing and will provide a lot of power. This is a very good example and the lead shoulder path being more circular and his keeping his head high makes this a very easy to see and understand example of what I am talking about. Because of his wide (quite circular) lower boday rotation and the consequent uniform lead shoulder path, you can readily see how he is just moving the lead arm relative to the motion of the lead shoulder socket and then in the change of direction the club drops into the slot with shaft flattening. You can also see how the trail elbow stays wide and then is able to drop in immediately as the downswing starts. Again, this is such a perfect example because of the very uniform path of the lead shoulder and his very erect spine and head position but this type of motion of the lead shoulder, lead arm,, and clubhead is happening in every great and powerful swing but variations in erectness and in the width of the body turn, and in arm freedom at address, etc., etc. make this less evident in many swings but it really is the only way get the full power of the arm, club linkage and the firing hips, and transferring weight (where applicable). Also, I have recently watched this video "Bob Toski & Jim Flick - A Swing for a Lifetime" which I think that you should watch. I always disagreed with Flick years ago when I heard him say he thought that the clubhead is swung with the arms and hands as the main basis of the swing. However, I now think that he meant exactly what I am talking about and I agree with him. In the video, at 10:42 he talks about swinging the arms freely from the shoulders and I believe that this is another way of describing my point. In the swing at 16:15 you can see that he pushes his lead hip out in the backswing and so has some more arc to his lead shoulder path in front of his body. That coupled with his head being down, having a slight hunch, and arms fairly free at address means that his arm swing happens on a slightly flatter plane than in the Kawaswing.but there are similarities. At 13:18 he discusses and demonstrates a back to target drill which clearly to me in its demonstration highlights the proper motion of the lead arm and clubhead relative to the motion of the lead shoulder. Cheers.
@@GolfTestDummy I'm continuing to refine the double (actually triple because the shoulder socket makes a bit of loop too) because its POWER IS FREAKIN UNBELIEVABLE when you get it right. The timing of it is about as precise as that of the cracking of a whip and just as effective. There are some intricacies that, once understood, are very manageable. If you look at the video thumbnail for Marcus' video "WOODS VS DRIVER" the position shown in the thumbnail is the result of cracking the whip, (trebuchet) driven by the body all the way through impact to parallel beyond it. This becomes possible through timing the release of the whip in the same way that you can crack a longer whip by by moving the end of it in a large enough arc. The fine timing of the whip cracking needs to happen at a precise moment in the swing. Remember that the last segment of the whip mechanism is the clubhead looping up and over (and more or less falling behind) the moving axis of the lead arm. This timing of the cracking is analagous to timing the snap of a wet towel and we can all feel that the tip of the towel is what we are timing. in that instance. The exact nature of the timing is that the final clubhead "loop" must finish its motion (loop) EXACTLY as the lead shoulder is ready to reverse its motion into the downswing. If there is any "run on" (knees collapsing together or extra arm lift or or lead arm folding hard against the upper chest) in the turn during the last moments of the backswing before the shoulder joint reverses direction, then the clubhead loop must only complete at the end of that "run on" motion because it must happen only as the shoulder is ACTUALLY reversing direction. In the case of the lead arm folding in hard against the body as the golfer gets the most out of last bits of tightening turn in the final portion of the backswing, the final looping of the clubhead will be and should be happening behind the golfer (think of Marcus who is a very good example of this) and so one must learn to feel and allow the last bit of loop taking place with a clear sense of it happening behind you and leaving the lead hand relaxed and the clubhead swinging up and over to allow that to happen back there. Swings with a wide turn and a very predictable slow down and reversal of the lead shoulder direction such as the Kawaswing make it easier to time the cracking of the whip. However, swings with a more "chaotic" reversal of direction can get more energy from the change of direcetion but are subject to more precision in the cracking of the whip. The key is to learn to feel and predict exactly when the lead shoulder is about to change direction and let the club loop and reverse direction with appropriately relaxed hands to synchronize with the shoulder reversal. The more that the clubhead loops from the very end of the lead hand, the more power that will be available through this mechanism. The tendency is to bring the clubhead over and inside with the lead hand and wrist instead of letting the loop happen by a free swinging of the clubhead at the end of the lead hand. If you do it correctly, you willl KNOW and FEEL it immediately because the release will feel longer and the speed will ramp up contually to and will past impact. Once the lead shoulder is just reversing and the clubhead has just finished its loop is about the time that the trail elbow can tuck in and fall in behind the swinging lead arm which effectively begins the cracking of the whip so that the trail arm release can play a major role in slinging the clubhead forward as the lead arm swings. Kawaswng videos such as some of the iron swing shorts that are out there are really good for seeing how the the looping motion of the lead arm and club ends exactly at (or even with) the transition of the lead shoulder from backswing to forward swing. Also the way that he demonstrates the motion of the hands as a unit it a very effective way to understand keeping the energy at the end of the lead arm as I mentioned earlier and thus keeping the trail hand from becoming too active in snatching the club too low or too inside in the backswing. Notice that he is also swinging the trail hand on a wide arc which helps the energy stay at the end of the lead arm and then the elbow can tuck as the trail hand drops in behind the lead arm swing and Voila! your whip is in motion. One thing that is useful to understand is that even though the club swings from our shoulder joints, the actual horizontal center of rotation is always beween our belly buttons and our upper thighs so this is why the end of the loop happens behind us for most swings (especially full ones) because the whip has a strong horizontal component to it which is what causes shaft flattening. So the whip happens from the arms, shoulders and hands but its horizontal component (club getting momentum, being flung, behind you and then in front of you) is being dictated by the center of horizontal rotation which is well behind the shoulders. All of this can be seen extremely well in the Kawaswing but is happening in all extremely powerful and efficient swings. Also finally notice that as I mentioned, you can clearly see that he (the Kawaswinger:-) ) would feel the end of the looping motion of the lead arm and clubhead happening behind him (specifically his head) as opposed to somewhere in front of him. Trying to control the loop where you can see it more in front of you is only possible with a much more curtailed version of the swing than most people have so in most cases trying to keep it in front of you just gets things out of whack. Cheers.
@@GolfTestDummy On a further note, that I'll think that you'll find interesting since you reviewed his stuff, I've got some noteworthy observations on the Gankas approach. As I study this looping phenomenon in powerful efficient golf swings, I've been remarking that one of the things that trips golfers up, even the very best. about mastering the pattern is the aspect of transferring the momentum behind you which, as I mentioned is because of the lower body center of rotation being behind the focal point of the looping mechanism being the shoulder sockets arms and hands, clubhead (especially the lead ones). Timing something that's happening behind you is challenging especially if your turn is not wide and uniform with a smoother transition, which is the case with many golfers, even tour pros, In fact, I will go so far as to say that when tour pros go really wrong, that they are mistiming the looping mechanism behind them and when they are on they are timing it exceptionally well leading to both effortless power and accuracy. In that regard, Gankas' approach removes somewhat of a variable in that he has players keep the upper chest further back than is the case with many top golfers and this makes the looping, from my own experimentation and logically, happen somewhat more in front of the golfer and thus able to be timed a little more purely with the shoulders, arms, and hands than is the case with its final stages taking place behind the golfer. Gankas has his student have the front of the top of the chest essentially over the toes which puts the focal point of looping just ahead of the center of rotation which is that much easier to predict, feel, and manage. The golfer gives up a bit of power potential by doing so, because the width of the arc of the whipping effect is shortening by moving the focal point of looping closer to the center of rotation. However, with greater predictability, and perceptibility of the looping mechanism, one can potentially widen the arm swing more often with more margin for error and make up some of the difference. And of course, there's always the Matt Wolff approach of having an ultra high and wide looping mechanism with an extremely wide trail hand and elbow arc incorporated into the looping mechanism. In fact, examining Wolff's swing in light of the looping concept essentially corroborates what I have been saying about looping. I also said that the wider the loops the more power that can be generated if things are timed correctly with the lead shoulder reversal. His swing has some commonalities in looping motion with the Kawaswing but goes even further and has them "on steroids" which explains that he is not far behind the likes of Champ and Dechambeau in the distance department. Essentially the Gankas stance position creates more of a column of rotation in the body as a whole about which to manage the looping mechanism and thus engenders the trademark Gankas swing pre-impact knee postions as the lower body operates more directly under the focal point of leverage in the golf swing. I thought that you might find these observations interesting. Cheers.
Stack and Tilt tip: At setup, hip bump left as much as you can. You won't have to think about weight left, not shifting right and it will give you an "in to out" swing plane. Watch Tom Seguto, he sets up very bumped to the left. You won't believe how easy this swing is. It's easy to take some bump out (although I don't see why you would) and you will have a real light bulb moment.💡🙂
I feel like when I check myself, I am a bit open, but I'm not sure that's a good thing or bad at this point. The low point should remain pretty much the same in relation to my lead foot.
I was playing my best golf with the stack and tilt until the ole back said nope no more stack and tilt for you. Had to over haul the whole thing and that was/is not easy. I will say even though the stack and tilt was straighter, the distance was pretty terrible. Since switching my 7 iron has went from 150-155 to 175-180. Anyway, I say all that to warn you about the awkward position it puts your spine in especially during the backswing.
Same issues for me...got down to 8....but took a bad swing...pushed the hips through and the back went bang....never been the same since.... Tried revisiting it again a couple of months ago....felt fine for a while...and I still like the iron shots it produces....but I felt the back again😢
When I was in my 20s, I was a 4 at my best. Then I quit playing for about 7 or 8 years in my early 30s, and picked it back up at 40. I haven't tracked it in a while now, but when I was playing fairly regular and using Golfpad to track stats and scores, it had me at 5.9 at my best.
Not going to mention his name but he is probably the #1 biomechanical guy in golf. I bought his swingspeed device and had the opportunity to communicate with him when setting up my system. I asked him about S&T and he said he wouldn’t recommend it.
Good stuff sir! At the risk of coming off as a keyboard warrior, "rule of 36" seems way too complicated. Stick to the S&T Ten Words (Seguto, Taylor, Cheney all have vids on it) and you will be crispy kfc Seguto contact. On a personal note, I started stacking and tilting three years ago and my handicap has gone from a 9 to a 2. It works! Keep up of the good work!
@@GolfTestDummy I’ve tried the stack n tilt before but with the driver it didn’t work out too well. I’m about 3 hours away from Tom Seguto. I’ve thought about going by where he teaches in Pawleys Island to talk with him.
Tried this swing, most complicated swing ever. Promotes way too many swing thoughts. But did lead me to the "Golf Machine". Lots can be learned about the movement of the body in the swing.
In my reviews, there have been many that claim to be simple, but the truth is, any golf swing is insanely complex when you think about everything that has to move in time and function correctly.
I really like the concept of stack and tilt. I remember you experimenting with it a while back and made mention that you felt something in your lower back.....i hope that stays away!
For those of you who say you can't hit your driver with S & T, than don't use it. Like Jim Venetos says, it's hard enough to learn one swing. Iron and driver are always going to be two different swings. I use a mini driver, same as iron swing.
I think S&T has some attractive things but it didn't work for my back. Had some success with the irons but the driver was another story. I think S&T reintroduced the concept that older generation golfers did for years, but for some reason was lost in the 1980s. S&T reintroduced the concept that the shoulders in the backswing should not be level with the horizon. They were right! This lead to hip slides and the head moving too far off the ball which resulted in poor ball contact.
I gave this 6 months a few years ago, totally destroyed my game. Driver became a mess and fairway woods and hybrids lost cause. It worked well for irons . Since I am slightly up in age now I have migrated to a more up right swing. ua-cam.com/video/vBJFNA4Iq-o/v-deo.html
Happy Mother’s Day to moms and wifes!
Don’t forget about Rob Chaney, he is a S&T guru, plus Jess Frank. If u do a collaboration with Tom that would be amazing as he’s over in SC.
S&T is everywhere in some form. It is the new modern swing. It’s given me confidence especially when I don’t play a lot and I know if I stick to those fundamentals I’ll play well.
Can’t wait to watch this journey!!!
Thanks, Brent! I've tagged Tom in this and the coming video for next week. I may also have something else in the works. Stay tuned!
Stack and Tilt! The only way to swing a golf club!! I tried other methods, this is the best way!!
70% if your weight on your front foot at set up, flared feet. Cheney is very, very good along with Saguto.
Consistent ball first contact!! More of a push swing. Great start you will love it!! Many pro's are using this method now. The old shifting back and forth thing takes many years to perfect.
I am excited! I taught my Wife to play this way 7-8 years ago, she is still at it. We went to a 3 day school in Pennsylvania. I loved the way it compressed the irons. Honestly I have not compressed Irons like that before or since.I did feel like I lost some distance with my woods, driver. But they were still accurate. My issues started with back pain also. I finally gave up on it just so I could play golf. I probably was doing something wrong to cause the back issues. I have heard some can alleviate the back issue with the Gary Player walk through. I have been really struggling this year with solid contact on chips, pitches, and irons. So I am going back to it. I highly recommend the book as a reference also. I will be joining you in this renewed journey!
Great to hear, Mitch! I've heard others talk about driver and even long irons giving them trouble, so I've got my work cut out. I have a lot to work on.
Just discovered your channel and really enjoy it . Just moved to S&T myself , which started off incredible ,but now hitting alot of thin shots .. but i will crack it .. congrats on your channel from London Uk.
Thanks, Paul, and best of luck to you! SNT is pretty fantastic.
Many thoughts lol...I have used parts of stack and tilt. Driver has given me trouble as well as long irons. Sam Goulden has a square to square swing with tons of vids I'd suggest. Very s&t but very little wrist hinge. He even did a review with Eric cogorno. 2 parts. Very good. I just wish the s&t guys would admit there is a pressure shift into back foot early in takeaway as clubhead moves back. There is even a vid of Grant Waite, I think is his name. Big s&t guy. He's on pressure plates and it's a substantial pressure shift. It then goes right back to lead foot. Clement talks about this in his tilted spiral series. Sorry for being long winded but I'm really looking forward to this series, bud!
That's awesome, and thanks! Yeah, I've seen a lot of Sam Goulden, and it shares some commonalities for sure. Stay tuned, plenty more coming!
Thanks Chad...for taking us on another journey. I've tried s&t before but never succesfully so I'm keen to see where I've missed the boat. I'm a great believer in golf innovation. I have a fairly consistent swing (3.4 index) from game to game--until I don't. I find now I can quickly self-correct in a few holes which was how I broke through the next level in my golf journey. Knowing I now have an extensive library of golf from guys like you to fall back on when things aren't going to plan is confidence boosting. I'm binging on this till I reach your 5th video.
That's awesome, and the course video will be coming out Sunday. Thanks for the support!
go and see a network instructor. No offense but as just a normal golfer and "trying" out a system as complex as S&T without the guide of a person who's taken hours and hours of training u are not going to know whatnot fix and the hierarchy
Hey bro! SNT is an interesting thing. I have run down this rabbit hole a few times over the years. I am always enamored with the super quick improvement in flush contact and consistency with the irons. Its the think that pulls me back there some times. As I get older and struggle getting back to my left side it also alleviates that issue for me. That said for me, it starts to come apart with the driver specifically and to a lesser degree with my fairway woods. I lose distance with it, which I can't afford to lose these days. I am intrigued that you are taking a look at it and won't be surprised if you love it. I love the irons with it, just never could figure the other out. Hope you do!
I hear much the same thing from several comments here. I'll get into woods and driver before long.
I'm a senior golfer having played for more than 40 years. I've tried most things including stack and tilt. IMO this method has some merit, however, it does have some drawbacks. From my own viewpoint after several weeks trying S&T I experienced pain both in the upper spine and lower back. This probably has to do with how the spine is twisted and tilted. I've seen reports of other golfers who've experienced similar pain and injuries. This method may be an option for younger golfers but for senior's beware. Some golf swing analyst's on YT concur with my thoughts. I've reverted back to a more traditional swing which I've used most of my golfing life.
Great video, as usual. I still don't know how you can change your swing style within days. It takes me months!
Regarding Stack & Tilt: I tried it for a few months. Irons were crisp, up until about the 5 iron. For some reason I just couldn't get my 5, 4, and 3-iron flying high. It was mostly a low boring flight that sometimes hooked hard. I tried weakening my left hand grip and that did help, but it was inconsistent.
I think that S&T is best for short irons and wedges. It keeps you centered and strikes are very consistent. I wouldn't depend on this swing style for distance, though. Just accuracy.
Thanks, Chachi! First thing, I can't make swing changes fast either. You guys see me once a week, but I'm grinding all week until then. For the longer irons and even hybrids, those are tougher clubs with any swing. For me, the trick is to play the ball a bit more forward, make sure you get your weight going toward the target, and have a shallower path coming in.
Thank you for reviewing this method. I started SNT about a year ago based on a recommendation from a fellow golfer. He turned me on to Saguto Golf and I found a few others. It really changes your relationship with the ball. It also helped me improve consistency in ball striking. Looking forward to see what you discover in this series.
Thanks, Greg! I've discovered one more key to the puzzle that's helped me. I'll make that video next I think.
Very much looking forward to this series! Remember: start left, stay left, finish left.
That's fantastic advice, and pretty insane, because I just recorded a week 3 episode, and THAT is what I discovered
Looking forward to watching this journey.👍🏻
Thanks, Laurence! I'll try to make sure it's worthwhile.
I am so looking forward to this journey!!! I recently started S&T myself.
Be awesome too if you did get a lesson and maybe could film it or go over what you learned in the lesson.
Good luck, Ben, and we'll see if this one goes the distance.
I liked the new series idea. I noticed that what you thought was less 1/2 or 3/4 quarter swing was pretty close to a full swing as far as club position at the top goes. Perhaps we’d all be better off taking what we perceive as a 3/4 swing.
That's been the case more often than not for me.
Hi Chad, great to watch your reviews. I have just one "complaint", I really would like to see a front view of your swing to see ball placement and such.
All the best, Tobbe
Superb video with good amounts of info. Looking forward to see how this develops.
Many thanks, and I'm looking forward to it also. Fingers 🤞
It works for all clubs and to be honest your own swing journey really started to look like stack and tilt. What I like about the system is no one will look the same. The idea is to reduce variables but you can add or take away. Ive been working woth it over a year now. Many say the driver is difficult but Ive never had an issue but to be fair ive always hit the ball high. For me what really makes all the difference is better bal control. These days I rarely take full swings my bread and butter is those punchy 1/2 abd 3/4 shots. Rmember the main thing with Stack and tilt is consistent low point and enough power to play the course. Average drive these days are 260. I can get it out there further but at that swing speed I am mor likely to keep it in play. Looking forward to this test.
Thanks, MGQ. It's going to take some time and effort, but hopefully in the coming weeks I'll have a really good base.
It will work for you if you turn around your left leg. If not, it won’t. Recommend you take a look at Mike Adams and Terry Rowles and their measurements and movement screens.
Yeah, that was my observation as well. I've got Week 2 video filmed and uploaded. You'll be pleasantly surprised at the content. Haha.
You do an incredible job of keeping your head still and behind the ball at impact. That's 90% of the job with any swing.
Big thanks, Joe! Some days are better than others...
Would love to see a spreadsheet of the different aspects, pros and cons of the various golf swings.
At this point, I'd honestly need to go back and revisit them all since so much time has passed.
Tried stack and tilt, but my chiro steered me away from it. While it’s promoted to be a swing that is good for your back, it can actually cause more damage if not done correctly. Thanks for another great video!
That was my amateur thought as well, that if it isn't correct, it could hurt. Hopefully, I'll find the right way....
I will keep my weight shift. S&T is a viable solution for those whom do not shallow the club in the downswing. You take it back shallow and bring it down on the same plane around a fixed axis. The shoulder tilt dictates the swing plane. Go see Tom he seems like a pretty cool guy. 😎
I tagged him in this, so maybe that'll happen. In any event, I'd like to get his thoughts.
The shoulder tilt dictates the swing plane. Never thought of it that way but it makes perfect sense.
Interesting direction, I wasn't expecting that although I guess that you hinted at some interest in earlier comments. Everything looks pretty good with one very important exception which is something that I mentioned the last time that you were referencing S & T.
This key that I'm going to mention here is probably the biggest key that I have ever discovered in the golf swing and I find that it takes me from bad swings to excellent swings in seconds when I utlize it and also helps me to understand how to usably imitate any golf swing very quickly so I hope that you consider this carefully because I'm giving you a trade secret here.
This key is the motion of the lead arm and shoulder. In all good, and powerful, swings the lead arm moves in a particular fashion RELATIVE TO the lead shoulder path. That motion can be described as kind of a loop up, in, down, and out. The clubhead simultaneously does a similar loop around the longitudinal axis of the lead arm as the lead arm is following it's partcular motion. This is actually how the whipping motion of the clubhead evident in all great and powerful swings is created. However, I must reemphasize that this happens relative to the motion of the lead shoulder (joint) and it must be understood that lead shoulder motions in golf swings can be very different; something often not understood in golf instruction.
For example, the shoulder can move out and down, out and level, (even out and up is possible but rare), or in some cases (usually with arms a little away from the chest at address, which frees them to do this), the shoulder can just must move straight across or that and just slighly down. In Marcus Edblad's swing, he has his arms freed from his chest at address and then he stands up slightly and his lead shoulder essentially comes straight across and slightly down which allows his lead arm to follow a very tight path up his chest as he turns and then when he drops into more of a squat on the way down he has created more room on his trail side for the lead arm and clubhead to continue their looping motions. The sum total of this is to create a whip where the unfolding trail arm is able to perform this motion along the same lines of force as the swinging lead arm. This means that everything follows the lead arm with a slight (or sometimes bigger; Cameron Champ with driver for example) loop. This combination of complementary motions turns the arms club combo into a whip, or a kind of trebuchet. This also means that this "trebuchet" can be released through the ball in conjunction with the downswing turn of the hips which multiplies power. The most important role of the trail elbow in this process is to keep enough width in its motion in order to be able to drop in behind the motion of the looping lead arm and thus form the rear member of the trubuchet linkage.
Since the S & T swing does not move weight to the trail side, the motion of the lead shoulder socket traces a tighter loop than in standard swings. In Grant Waite's swing for example, the lead upper arm starts fairly close to his lead lat at address and then the lead shoulder comes out, down, and across so in a similar swing to his the lead arm arm will have to work out and across being fairly low at the start and then lifting rapidly as the turn deepens. In other words the lead arm reflects the path of the lead shoulder in the takeaway and while that is happening the clubhead is staying above the hands in order to perform its complimentary loop around the looping lead arm.
Saguto has his hands more freed from his chest at address and this slight difference has fairly big consequences. Generally, as with Marcus, this allows you to swing the club a little more directly around the body with a little less emphasis on lift (still very important though) and this is pretty much the principal difference that is seen between Saguto and Waite. In both cases though, the lead arm must move out and free itself in order to gain power and leverage. Saguto's happens on a little flatter plane than Waite's due to the freeer arms but the same lead arm and clubhead power loop is happening in both swings.
The lack of this kind of freed up lead arm motion (properly respecting the motion of the lead shoulder will make it hard to get much power in an S & T type motion and particularly as you get into longer shafts. Proper lead arm motion will also allow you to be able to utilize your hips more through impact as you release the "trebuchet". It looked to me that they only got to about 5-10 degrees open by iimpact in those swings. Let me know if have any questions. Cheers.
I understand pretty much everything there, I believe. Golftec does a great job of showing how SNT works, even though I'm really sure that they "advertise" themselves as SNT.
I already have week 2 filmed and set for next Sunday, and I feel like I'm picking things up quickly, but I hope to make a REAL transformation. The vision your shoulder and lead arm motion description creates in my head is as the shoulders turn back and through, the lead arm is making a kind of clockwise rotational motion in the joint. THAT reminds me of the Kawaswing on Instagram. A "backstroke" swimming motion of sorts.
In any event, I have plenty of work ahead of me, and I'll definitely try your thoughts in my workouts.
@@GolfTestDummy Yes, in this Kawaswing video "シャロヒン状態を作ってから打つ！つかまりやすい手首 川村洋介シャロヒンゴルフ kawaswing" (name of video is in the quotes), in the swing at 5:25 you can see that he is forcing both his lead knee and hip forward in the backswing which cause the lead shoulder to trace a bit of a curved arc out and around in front of him and he has kept the lead shoulder high by keeping his head up and keeping a wide turn of his lower body (and as mentioned, the lead shoulder). This is that rare case that I mentioned where the lead shoulder can actually come out, around, and HIGH. His wide turn of the lower body and his head being held high make this particular case of the clubhead to lead arm to shoulder motion quite evident. You can clearly see that he is lifting the lead arm from the shoulder in conjunction with the arc that the shoulder is tracing in front of him and that the lead arm motion is forming a loop as I described and that the clubhead is tracing a loop around the looping lead arm. Especially in the change of direction, you can see the "trebuchet" kicking into action as the clubhead drops below the lead arm and the trail arm is unloaded following the lead arm around the arc of the release. Also, at impact his hips are 40+ degrees open. This is a technically a very sound swing and will provide a lot of power.
This is a very good example and the lead shoulder path being more circular and his keeping his head high makes this a very easy to see and understand example of what I am talking about. Because of his wide (quite circular) lower boday rotation and the consequent uniform lead shoulder path, you can readily see how he is just moving the lead arm relative to the motion of the lead shoulder socket and then in the change of direction the club drops into the slot with shaft flattening. You can also see how the trail elbow stays wide and then is able to drop in immediately as the downswing starts.
Again, this is such a perfect example because of the very uniform path of the lead shoulder and his very erect spine and head position but this type of motion of the lead shoulder, lead arm,, and clubhead is happening in every great and powerful swing but variations in erectness and in the width of the body turn, and in arm freedom at address, etc., etc. make this less evident in many swings but it really is the only way get the full power of the arm, club linkage and the firing hips, and transferring weight (where applicable).
Also, I have recently watched this video "Bob Toski & Jim Flick - A Swing for a Lifetime" which I think that you should watch. I always disagreed with Flick years ago when I heard him say he thought that the clubhead is swung with the arms and hands as the main basis of the swing. However, I now think that he meant exactly what I am talking about and I agree with him. In the video, at 10:42 he talks about swinging the arms freely from the shoulders and I believe that this is another way of describing my point.
In the swing at 16:15 you can see that he pushes his lead hip out in the backswing and so has some more arc to his lead shoulder path in front of his body. That coupled with his head being down, having a slight hunch, and arms fairly free at address means that his arm swing happens on a slightly flatter plane than in the Kawaswing.but there are similarities.
At 13:18 he discusses and demonstrates a back to target drill which clearly to me in its demonstration highlights the proper motion of the lead arm and clubhead relative to the motion of the lead shoulder. Cheers.
@@GolfTestDummy I'm continuing to refine the double (actually triple because the shoulder socket makes a bit of loop too) because its POWER IS FREAKIN UNBELIEVABLE when you get it right. The timing of it is about as precise as that of the cracking of a whip and just as effective. There are some intricacies that, once understood, are very manageable.
If you look at the video thumbnail for Marcus' video "WOODS VS DRIVER" the position shown in the thumbnail is the result of cracking the whip, (trebuchet) driven by the body all the way through impact to parallel beyond it. This becomes possible through timing the release of the whip in the same way that you can crack a longer whip by by moving the end of it in a large enough arc.
The fine timing of the whip cracking needs to happen at a precise moment in the swing. Remember that the last segment of the whip mechanism is the clubhead looping up and over (and more or less falling behind) the moving axis of the lead arm. This timing of the cracking is analagous to timing the snap of a wet towel and we can all feel that the tip of the towel is what we are timing. in that instance.
The exact nature of the timing is that the final clubhead "loop" must finish its motion (loop) EXACTLY as the lead shoulder is ready to reverse its motion into the downswing. If there is any "run on" (knees collapsing together or extra arm lift or or lead arm folding hard against the upper chest) in the turn during the last moments of the backswing before the shoulder joint reverses direction, then the clubhead loop must only complete at the end of that "run on" motion because it must happen only as the shoulder is ACTUALLY reversing direction. In the case of the lead arm folding in hard against the body as the golfer gets the most out of last bits of tightening turn in the final portion of the backswing, the final looping of the clubhead will be and should be happening behind the golfer (think of Marcus who is a very good example of this) and so one must learn to feel and allow the last bit of loop taking place with a clear sense of it happening behind you and leaving the lead hand relaxed and the clubhead swinging up and over to allow that to happen back there.
Swings with a wide turn and a very predictable slow down and reversal of the lead shoulder direction such as the Kawaswing make it easier to time the cracking of the whip. However, swings with a more "chaotic" reversal of direction can get more energy from the change of direcetion but are subject to more precision in the cracking of the whip. The key is to learn to feel and predict exactly when the lead shoulder is about to change direction and let the club loop and reverse direction with appropriately relaxed hands to synchronize with the shoulder reversal.
The more that the clubhead loops from the very end of the lead hand, the more power that will be available through this mechanism. The tendency is to bring the clubhead over and inside with the lead hand and wrist instead of letting the loop happen by a free swinging of the clubhead at the end of the lead hand. If you do it correctly, you willl KNOW and FEEL it immediately because the release will feel longer and the speed will ramp up contually to and will past impact.
Once the lead shoulder is just reversing and the clubhead has just finished its loop is about the time that the trail elbow can tuck in and fall in behind the swinging lead arm which effectively begins the cracking of the whip so that the trail arm release can play a major role in slinging the clubhead forward as the lead arm swings.
Kawaswng videos such as some of the iron swing shorts that are out there are really good for seeing how the the looping motion of the lead arm and club ends exactly at (or even with) the transition of the lead shoulder from backswing to forward swing. Also the way that he demonstrates the motion of the hands as a unit it a very effective way to understand keeping the energy at the end of the lead arm as I mentioned earlier and thus keeping the trail hand from becoming too active in snatching the club too low or too inside in the backswing. Notice that he is also swinging the trail hand on a wide arc which helps the energy stay at the end of the lead arm and then the elbow can tuck as the trail hand drops in behind the lead arm swing and Voila! your whip is in motion.
One thing that is useful to understand is that even though the club swings from our shoulder joints, the actual horizontal center of rotation is always beween our belly buttons and our upper thighs so this is why the end of the loop happens behind us for most swings (especially full ones) because the whip has a strong horizontal component to it which is what causes shaft flattening. So the whip happens from the arms, shoulders and hands but its horizontal component (club getting momentum, being flung, behind you and then in front of you) is being dictated by the center of horizontal rotation which is well behind the shoulders. All of this can be seen extremely well in the Kawaswing but is happening in all extremely powerful and efficient swings.
Also finally notice that as I mentioned, you can clearly see that he (the Kawaswinger:-) ) would feel the end of the looping motion of the lead arm and clubhead happening behind him (specifically his head) as opposed to somewhere in front of him. Trying to control the loop where you can see it more in front of you is only possible with a much more curtailed version of the swing than most people have so in most cases trying to keep it in front of you just gets things out of whack. Cheers.
@@GolfTestDummy On a further note, that I'll think that you'll find interesting since you reviewed his stuff, I've got some noteworthy observations on the Gankas approach. As I study this looping phenomenon in powerful efficient golf swings, I've been remarking that one of the things that trips golfers up, even the very best. about mastering the pattern is the aspect of transferring the momentum behind you which, as I mentioned is because of the lower body center of rotation being behind the focal point of the looping mechanism being the shoulder sockets arms and hands, clubhead (especially the lead ones).
Timing something that's happening behind you is challenging especially if your turn is not wide and uniform with a smoother transition, which is the case with many golfers, even tour pros, In fact, I will go so far as to say that when tour pros go really wrong, that they are mistiming the looping mechanism behind them and when they are on they are timing it exceptionally well leading to both effortless power and accuracy.
In that regard, Gankas' approach removes somewhat of a variable in that he has players keep the upper chest further back than is the case with many top golfers and this makes the looping, from my own experimentation and logically, happen somewhat more in front of the golfer and thus able to be timed a little more purely with the shoulders, arms, and hands than is the case with its final stages taking place behind the golfer. Gankas has his student have the front of the top of the chest essentially over the toes which puts the focal point of looping just ahead of the center of rotation which is that much easier to predict, feel, and manage.
The golfer gives up a bit of power potential by doing so, because the width of the arc of the whipping effect is shortening by moving the focal point of looping closer to the center of rotation. However, with greater predictability, and perceptibility of the looping mechanism, one can potentially widen the arm swing more often with more margin for error and make up some of the difference.
And of course, there's always the Matt Wolff approach of having an ultra high and wide looping mechanism with an extremely wide trail hand and elbow arc incorporated into the looping mechanism. In fact, examining Wolff's swing in light of the looping concept essentially corroborates what I have been saying about looping. I also said that the wider the loops the more power that can be generated if things are timed correctly with the lead shoulder reversal. His swing has some commonalities in looping motion with the Kawaswing but goes even further and has them "on steroids" which explains that he is not far behind the likes of Champ and Dechambeau in the distance department.
Essentially the Gankas stance position creates more of a column of rotation in the body as a whole about which to manage the looping mechanism and thus engenders the trademark Gankas swing pre-impact knee postions as the lower body operates more directly under the focal point of leverage in the golf swing. I thought that you might find these observations interesting. Cheers.
@@GolfTestDummy One question, when you were talking S&T and Golftec, are you talking about Nick Taylor's stuff or something else? Cheers.
Stack and Tilt tip: At setup, hip bump left as much as you can. You won't have to think about weight left, not shifting right and it will give you an "in to out" swing plane. Watch Tom Seguto, he sets up very bumped to the left. You won't believe how easy this swing is. It's easy to take some bump out (although I don't see why you would) and you will have a real light bulb moment.💡🙂
Good tip. I've watched a ton of Tom's stuff and tagged him and Nick Taylor in these vids.
@@GolfTestDummy Those guys are great! I was just play a round and decided to bump as much as i could at setup(kinda like Sam Goulden). It works great.
Do you have a slightly open stance with pw? And will the low point stay the same throughout all irons?
I feel like when I check myself, I am a bit open, but I'm not sure that's a good thing or bad at this point. The low point should remain pretty much the same in relation to my lead foot.
Thank God you test all these things for us because my brain would be a hot mess with all these different swings going through my head 🤣
Pat, I'm in a constant hot mess state. It's my comfort zone I guess.
🤣🤣🤣
I was playing my best golf with the stack and tilt until the ole back said nope no more stack and tilt for you. Had to over haul the whole thing and that was/is not easy. I will say even though the stack and tilt was straighter, the distance was pretty terrible. Since switching my 7 iron has went from 150-155 to 175-180. Anyway, I say all that to warn you about the awkward position it puts your spine in especially during the backswing.
That was my experience about 2 years ago, when I tried it informally and briefly. This time, so far, no pain. But, I've got a lot of work to do.
Same issues for me...got down to 8....but took a bad swing...pushed the hips through and the back went bang....never been the same since....
Tried revisiting it again a couple of months ago....felt fine for a while...and I still like the iron shots it produces....but I felt the back again😢
Man, that's a tough break. I'm hoping to get through this review unscathed lol.
You seem to do well with all methods. Just wondering what has been your lowest handicap, even unofficially if not a Club member.
When I was in my 20s, I was a 4 at my best. Then I quit playing for about 7 or 8 years in my early 30s, and picked it back up at 40. I haven't tracked it in a while now, but when I was playing fairly regular and using Golfpad to track stats and scores, it had me at 5.9 at my best.
That's good Golf. Looking forward to seeing your Stack and Tilt results. Play well.
Thanks, Glenn.
Will be interested in your progression.
Stay tuned, time will tell.
Stack and tilt is interesting. Thx
Thank you!
Not going to mention his name but he is probably the #1 biomechanical guy in golf. I bought his swingspeed device and had the opportunity to communicate with him when setting up my system. I asked him about S&T and he said he wouldn’t recommend it.
It's definitely not everyone's cup of tea.
Good stuff sir! At the risk of coming off as a keyboard warrior, "rule of 36" seems way too complicated. Stick to the S&T Ten Words (Seguto, Taylor, Cheney all have vids on it) and you will be crispy kfc Seguto contact. On a personal note, I started stacking and tilting three years ago and my handicap has gone from a 9 to a 2. It works! Keep up of the good work!
Many thanks! I'm not sure how long I'll do this series, but I definitely want to stay in it a while, because there's so much potential for me.
shoulders are open 36 degrees at impact not hips. that would be a ton.
Happy mother's day
Happy Mother's Day to all the moms.
Can you try JuJu swing next?
I'm not sure what I'll do next, but I've certainly seen a lot of that swing, so who know?
I'd like to see that as well,I couldn't get the hang of it,it's just me I think.
It's very interesting.... seems like you would have the tendency to hook the ball a lot or block it out to the right.
I've dabbled before and never really got on with it.
Yeah, we all caught the “crispy” reference. Nice
Haha, subtleties, right?
How has it worked with the driver?
That's a great question. Haven't progressed to driver yet. I'm going about it slow and steady, to build the basics up first. Time will tell.
@@GolfTestDummy I’ve tried the stack n tilt before but with the driver it didn’t work out too well. I’m about 3 hours away from Tom Seguto. I’ve thought about going by where he teaches in Pawleys Island to talk with him.
I think his latest videos he's at Litchfield CC, but man, it's been a hot minute since I was down around Myrtle Beach.
Tried this swing, most complicated swing ever. Promotes way too many swing thoughts. But did lead me to the "Golf Machine". Lots can be learned about the movement of the body in the swing.
In my reviews, there have been many that claim to be simple, but the truth is, any golf swing is insanely complex when you think about everything that has to move in time and function correctly.
I really like the concept of stack and tilt. I remember you experimenting with it a while back and made mention that you felt something in your lower back.....i hope that stays away!
This time SEEMS to be different. Maybe a but better knowledge will help.
For those of you who say you can't hit your driver with S & T, than don't use it. Like Jim Venetos says, it's hard enough to learn one swing. Iron and driver are always going to be two different swings. I use a mini driver, same as iron swing.
Pretty solid advice.
@@GolfTestDummy Shot 75 today with S and T. Used driver one time(not too great). Mini driver is awesome!
I think S&T has some attractive things but it didn't work for my back. Had some success with the irons but the driver was another story. I think S&T reintroduced the concept that older generation golfers did for years, but for some reason was lost in the 1980s. S&T reintroduced the concept that the shoulders in the backswing should not be level with the horizon. They were right! This lead to hip slides and the head moving too far off the ball which resulted in poor ball contact.
That fixed shoulder plane is great for any swing I think.
Agreeed!
I gave this 6 months a few years ago, totally destroyed my game. Driver became a mess and fairway woods and hybrids lost cause. It worked well for irons . Since I am slightly up in age now I have migrated to a more up right swing.
ua-cam.com/video/vBJFNA4Iq-o/v-deo.html
Time will tell for me, but I'm hopeful.