Are Hollywood Movie Roles Sexist? | Fred Hayward
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- Опубліковано 4 бер 2018
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At least 80% of the reason I work out is because I want to be objectified.
It's the same reason I think about working out, but I never get around to it.
Exactly!
I would be lying if I didn't say that factored in, but it's more like 10-20% of my motivation for exercise.
Me too.
I don't workout because I'm in shape..Round is a shape isn't it?
If you count the number of men that die in movies, it's going to be ridiculous.
You can't show a woman being choked in an x-men billboard because there's domestic violence, but men are killed much more than women, yet this is ok. It's even ok to me, but I wish there wasn't a double standard like this in feminism.
yu S. the real irony being that the woman who was being choked out on the billboard was a murderer. And to my knowledge, she’d only ever killed men in the X-Men films... but you can’t show her being choked out; this is misogynist!
it's also interesting to note that they're in the middle of re-branding the Mystique character. Perhaps it's because of J-Law's popularity but they've turned her from a murderous psychopath to a 'caring' hero who fights for the rights of the poor oppressed mutants.....
Now, I wonder how women would feel if they made Mystique into a male character?
+C Chadwick Exactly!
Feminism is all about the double standards.
What about the male sacrifice that is so often in movies, even in Wonder Woman the Man had to sacrifice his life.
Feminists ignore that, by design obviously.
When was last time in movies where female sacrificed herself? I don't recall anything else than Black Widow in Endgame.
This is actually something I care a lot about. Men's portrayal in Media really needs to be put in perspective and fixed. Even some of my favorite movies are horribly abusive to men.
For example, Iron Man 2 had Black Widow leave a man hanging by his neck and it was played for laughs. If you really think about it, that's pretty sick and twisted.
Most male leads are super macho, super confident guys who usually have no problem getting women. Even for guys in real life who easily attract women, once they go beyond the sex the relationship becomes a whole difficult ball game. It's a fantasy, nice to watch for entertainment purposes, but at the same time, it promotes the idea that men who are struggling, even men who are not super-successful, have no value or worth for society.
Tan Ler maybe back in the 70s. However, I don't think that's the case anymore. Sure, you got your Liam Neeson and Daniel Craig movies, but for every one of those there's a whole shelf of Paul Blart Mall Cop and Shia LaBeouf movies.
Tory Evans Okay. I guess I'm only watching the Liam Neeson and Daniel Graig type movies.
Not being looked at by my ex the way I looked at her is probably one of the reasons we eventually broke up, I wish men were seen as sex objects, it sounds amazing to me and the few times that I was looked at like that were some of the happiest of my life.
Not only is it immensely psychologically rewarding, it's also extremely lucrative. Being desirable means having power, it means people WANT something from you, and when people want something from you, you have power over them.
This is seen in the women in movies thing, in those movies, they have the power, they are the one the hero is working for, he's sacrificing to save her, to please her. There is always a clear power imbalance in favor of the woman.
The reason men are the hero is simply the other side of that coin, they are also in a state of objectification, but counter to the woman, whose value is already established by her mere existence, the mens existence is not enough reason for him to be desired. He has to PROVE himself, he is objectified, not for who he is, but for what he can do for the woman. His body is not measured for it's beauty, but for it's usefulness.
He has to prove to be worthy, of the inherently already worthy, female.
This reminds me of the first girl I ever slept with, we were both virgins, and at some point her mother asked her "are you sure he's worthy?", no one ever asked me if she was worthy of being my first. No, I had to prove that I was equal to her.
This is why movies tend to be about men, because movies are about taking action, and men are the ones who we judge on action. The "roles" in movies are merely a reflection of that.
And it follows that OF COURSE, the 'secondary' characters are not as important as the 'main' character, that's why he's 'main', and they are 'secondary'. This is simply true by definition.
So why doesn't hollywood make more movies about women? Is it sexism? No, the general audience just generally doesn't like them, because they tend to suck, because they are going against how men and women actually are in real life, and therefore tend to be crappy and weird. Add to that the fact that a movie with a female lead is almost never a movie whose lead happens to be female, but very clearly has a FEMALE LEAD (meaning that they not so subtly take every chance to treat her as a female, as opposed to a person who happens to be female), means that in the past, this simply hasn't worked.
So hollywood is fearful to try, not because of gender, but because of money.
Hollywood doesn't give a crap about gender, all it cares about is making money.
It makes perfect sense from a business point of view to aim your movie towards a certain demographic, and then let the market decide who likes it or who doesn't. For example, MyLittlePony is aimed at little girls, but it also found a market in male adults, that doesn't mean that the producers of MLP should now change everythig to apeal to males, on the contrary, you keep doing what has proven to be sucessful for two diferent demographics.
Action movies tend to apeal to men, but that doesn't mean that women can't enjoy them. And there are many examples of female protagonist in that genre.
Nobody complains that romantic comedies tend to apeal more to females.
One of the Top Franchises in Video Games in the early 2000s was Tomb Raider. Laura Croft is the Protagonist. He Movie is about to be lit. I bet you it makes major sells @ the Box Office.
i saw the trailer.. it does have hopes :) at least to beat the old movies :P
but for the games.. i'm guessing some of the appeal was not the gameplay, but the at times interesting camera angles :P
comicly enough i stumbled into some feminist thing where they complained about the overly sexual noices that came out of a crawling lara croft for the early games (possibly the first)
turn out they actually just recorded one of their devs.. crawling through a tunnel :P
Have more female villains, sure. But more female villains who aren't republican, or white and/or rich.
yu S.
In Hollywood if a villain is a female they're not even evil. Think about Mila Kunis as the Wicked Witch of the West, and Angelina Jolie as Maleficent. They're just misunderstood, and only went bad because "a man done them wrong".
Onioncore maleficent was a protaganist, so she is likely more of an anti hero than a villain if anything
Elvick sort of but it was an edited enough retelling that it approaches the same level as a genderbent romeo and juliet or even disney fairytales compared to the original stories. You cant necessarily predict characters roles by other versions
Do you know why they did not find Jack the ripper???
Jack was actually Jill. They assumed it was a man or rich man of means, not an americian lesbian woman (mid wife) in London. She could move all hours with blood as a mid wife, because the police were looking for a msn for the brutal murders. It is rumoured that mid wife's did abortions and one in particular did far more and her mental state broke, after seeing dead babies that she killed (deep routed guilt), as she lashed out at the women who wanted abortions..
I remember back in the 80's working in an office and the women feminists at the office excoriating me any time I said anything about finding some woman attractive in any way. They would call me a horrible, evil, male chauvinist pig who was treating women like sex objects. They would lecture me that I should admire women for their minds rather than their bodies. But then I would see in those same women's cubicles posters of men without their shirts, showing their six pack abs and bulging biceps. When I would point out to them that their posters of those men was the same thing as my admiring attractive women, they would retort that it was entirely different for them because they were women so it was OK. They would say things like, since men had mistreated women all through history, it was their right, duty, and privilege to do that to men like me here and now, sort of evening the score. They had several other rationalizations to excuse it as well, but I found it just another example of the typical hypocrisy and denial of reality that permeates feminist ideology.
Can you show me a movie where a woman has an argument with a man and the woman is wrong without it being caused by another man?
Men are getting killed mutilated punished accused sacrificed ....oh and are not only the victims but also the "bad" people/perpetrators......
Women are only some poor innocent little princesses....who ofcource get the cool prince charming in the end.....
Edit : oh and I forgot....it's MENS fault ....it always is...
A Leading Actor is Always a Good Looking Guy. A Character Actor is a Very Good Actor who is not so Good Looking. Stephanie Zimbalest one time said about Pierce Brosnan her Co-Star in Remington Steele (The TV Show that gave Pierce Brosnan his Big Break I believe that Pierce was a Character Actor in a Leading Man's Body. Basically, that he was a very Good Actor who was also good Looking.
Men are judged by Both their Looks and their Status (Money and Power). Women are just Judged by their Looks. As Chris Rock one time said-" No Woman ever didn't get Laid because she was Broke."
He only scratches the surface. Women movie roles have always been that of the morally superior being. The character that is constantly offering the correct moral answers to all the issues in the movie. The one that doesn't make moral mistakes and is there for the "I told you so, but now do this" when male characters make a mistake, look at Hermione Granger, Princess Leia, Dana Scully. Even when female characters are shown as evil, it is always justified with the trope: much wrong was done to her so now she is taking it out on the world. Look at Cersei from Games of Thrones and compare her to Joffrey, she is evil because of everything she has been through, but he is purely evil.
On the subject of male body count in movies, I was thinking on how inconceivable it would be to depict a gritty war movie and have the "good guys" be all women and either loose through sacrifice or "win" a pyrric victory, i.e. along the lines of Saving Private Ryan, The Lost Battalion, Passchendaele or even 300. Show them not heroically leading some random fantasy army that was freely given to them even though they have no right or ability to lead, but them having to sit in trenches, wade through the mud, shells and bodies of their dead sisters in combat on an empty stomach. Show the same degree of mutilation as in the movies I just mentioned.
I truly wonder; how would the general public react to a depiction of the Omaha beach landing when it was all women whose legs were flying around, got turned into living torches, were walking around looking for their severed arm and who were screaming for daddy with their intestines poking out of the giant mess their stomach got turned into by shrapnel. Would feminists stomach this kind of movie? Because if complete equal representation is wanted, this is _also_ what should be shown in theaters.
When they say women are "objectified", they really want you to come to the conclusion that women are being "dehumanized".
But we never hear them say very much about how men, both in film and in real life, are literally being dehumanized all the time.
Yet when it comes to awards they're quite happy to be best actress .
Reason woman make shitty leads or hero is because they have no place to go they start out better then any other character and writers are too afraid to give them flaws, have them fail or at any point have them helpless. When a man has cornered the villain he takes a hostage and the man surrenders because it is the right thing to do, when a woman has cornered the villain he takes a hostage and the woman just beats him up with a really unrealistic manner were at no point during the conflict is the woman given that sense of losing.
A really good character has to raise then fall to raise again. Female characters do not do this. Not only that many female characters are written to act like men, but even the most tomboyish girls I have ever know still act like woman. The reason why gender role exist in movies is because each gender can relate to them. Men can relate to men and woman can relate to woman, but men cannot relate to a woman acting like a man and a woman cannot relate to that either. You see woman burping and being gross which they do but this is often only in private or when they are trying to show off to a group of men. You will rarely see a woman burp or fart around coworkers or friends.
Even look at the way Female Villains are treated. Male villains burn a village, rape women, killed children or tortured people for fun. Female villains are miss understood, they will burn a village but you will find it was because she was wronged by someone, I do not know any female villains that have killed children or raped people, but if they torture someone it is for a sympathetically reason. They like to de-humanize male villains make you want so see justice done or for them to die but for woman they try really hard to make you sympathize for them,
I mean look at Melefacet or anyone in Once Apon A Time. I have not watch the entire series because I cannot stand it, but from what I saw almost every female villain had turned good, redeemed themselves or they tried to create sympathy for them while the male villains were treated like trash. Not only that every man was either super agreeable and did what ever the ladies said or was evil.
Take a show with a male protagonist , what will happen. He is in love with some woman and only wants her; He is fully capable is his character skill set and other characters are still the specialist in there skill set (the male character will never know more then his side kicks and more then likely the smarted and most cab able side kick will almost always be a woman); At some point he will fail, lose or have to surrender and have his ass kicked; He will be shown to be a giant man-child in some instances; He will whine and complain when he does not get something done or has to do something he does not want to and so on.
Now look at shows with female protagonist She will have 2 or more men chasing after her and she gets to always flip flop around on all of them but it is okay cause she is owning her sexuality; She is overly capable in her character skill set to the point there is no way for her to become better; Any secondary characters that are men with a skill set she will always be on par with them if not better (IE a female detective will know the same if not more then a male doctor when discussing something that has happen), this makes the support character useless and only purpose to make her look good; She will never fail, lose or have to surrender, if she does it is not for very long and will more then likely get back up and beat her opponent in the same conflict; When she whines about not wanting to do something it is seen as being a strong woman; She is always shown to be mature, logical or at the very lest more capable then any man around her in a situation; At some point the show will turn a female character gay and have them kiss in an awkward seen just to pleas the gays and ring in teenage boys and perv men and so on.
The only people that love Strong Female Characters are weak men that fetishize about being dominated or woman that are very weak and low in self confidants that wish they were stronger. Even normal woman hate Strong Female Characters and think they are ridiculous, but they will watch it more because it has a female characters. If a woman is able to act like a man it is more then likely because the men that are around will just walk away because they do not want to social stigma. Many movies and shows try to show a 120lbs woman with noodle arms throwing or kicking guys around and able to fire fully automatic guns like it was nothing, the reality is many Militiaries ban woman from using automatic weapons. Have you seen a woman fire a real high caliber rifle round in full auto? The average guy has trouble.
The biggest thing is there is this push that woman can princesses and should be treated as such but they do not need any help, despite the fact that woman/girls receive more help through academic and social programs then men/boys. Woman use more then 2/3 of social programs and assistants while only paying 1/3 of the taxes into it. Women consume more resources, IE food; health care; financial assistants then men do but men are required to pay more for these programs. Women send up to 7 to 10 times longer on sick/injury leave then men do. A man that had a heart attack gets two weeks to recover to get back to work while a woman can take up to a year off to trouble.
Well that was a rant, but it is true, woman in all honesty make better villains because even though people will never say it in public woman are not sugar ans spice and everything nice. They are annoying, manipulative, scheming , vicious, narcissistic, complaining, hate fueled, delusional, hypocritical and a bunch other nasty things and female villains show this to use though a lens that is more easy to tolerate then the blunt truth. People say woman are compassionate, no they are not whey act so because they have no power, once a woman has power she will used it to get what she wants, men are far more compassionate as they both have the power and choose to use it to help others.
Keep it up Cassie, love these!
What story are you trying to tell? The depiction of a woman or a man will always depend on the story that is being told.
Men are always going to dominate movies about war, sports or cops & robbers. If you want to see more women, have more films about relationships or medical dramas.
Great vid
Somebody knows the music used in the beginning of the video?
The problem with the term "Objectification" is that it is a very... Lazy term that is very easy to apply to anything. Even the hero, though he acts, is essentially an object... A "Get out of jail free" card. After studying enough I sort of saw that the term means anything you want it to, even if a character is fully realized but wears a nice shirt they are objectified. I don't think Hollywood is perfect, but the major problem I see is even when we fix the problem it won't look the way people THINK it will look like... Because the Media is only a reflection of society and its desires, or at least of those who write it. So how does Female Oriented Media depict men? Is it any better or different? It is actually worse if we applied the same thinking.
"This is why we need women telling their own stories in Hollywood!"
Women tell their own stories. 50 Shades Gray franchise. Twilight franchise.
"Okay, we'll get a guy to write the story but can we have a female director at least?"
+cartohead Exactly!
Harry Potter
Women need to stop blaming men for everything. More men are walking away in record numbers.
Sexism isn't really possible unless it goes both ways. Yes men tend to get paid more, but the life of a male actor is far less secure than that of a female one.
There are far fewer high-paying roles for men. Yes the hero gets paid more, but there tend to be far more supporting women in the cast and they get paid more than the supporting men.
What makes me laugh is that with the big general pay gap myth, women add up all men's salaries and all women's salaries and calculate this massive pay gap.
Want to know why they don't do that when they talk about the pay gap in Hollywood?
It was already discussed how man can be objectified, but truth is, I don't care about objectification at all. People can and are objectified depending on the subject. Employees are objectified as workers, as mass in many places and I could find others as well.
Usually action movies (mostly the ones being complained about) are about a male hero and a female price. First of all, feminists have tried to change that by introducing female heroes and sometimes male prices, but I haven't heard to much success in actually making profit. People just dont like that, mostly because it goes against the evolutionary roles of male and female where males were the protectors-hunters-warriors-conquerors, and females were the protected-price-reason-etc. Even women dont like a beta male as a price mostly. One of the latest blockbuster was Wonder Woman in that sense but even there the male was not a price but a hero, also and as stated in the video, the villain was a man and this was the closest to a feminin action movie.
I can recognize objectified women on screen, screamers, blonde jokes, etc, but also see objectified man as risk/sacrifice life heroes, nerds, etc. And before anyone says male hero is a good thing, just imagine the implications. How conveniently reassures male disposability hence the high number of male suicides.
So in short, Hollywood movies are not sexists or if they are, then they are sexists to both genders, but I would just rather say that everyone can be objectified.
Great point
Wow! Finally these things are talked about in rational way. The rabbits hole goes so deep
You see there are many feminists who are pretty and hot, have long hair, modern body, actress face and put a lot of effort to look that way yet they complain about being sex objects. What i actually respect more if you wanna be feminist who comes forward with sex object thing is are those who have shaven hair, no make up and don't look like superhero woman. They actually can afford to say that.
Drop Knowledge!
I like female villains. They're so evil.....brings to mind the ex-wife.
👍
Melinda Clarke is nearly 50 and she can still play a believable villain.
Disney had female heroes and female antagonists for years.
Snow white' was made in 37! and they keep producing them.
There should be a full reverse. Yup, the new Tomb Raider game developers should have seen this, that thing is fucked up.
Most women who complain about being sex objects really don't look like sex objects.
You never hear Pamela Anderson complaining to be treated like a sex object. But Merry Streep does.
Nobody forces women to put on push up bras, high heels, and sexy lingerie.
Hollywood is run entirely by Uber Liberals ??? Woman are portrayed in preposterous ways where they compete directly with Men and many times surpass Men. Men especially Caucasian Men are often portrayed as bumbling fools and malevolent.
if you do a killcount of war movies or just "the henchmen/palace guards" killed in every action movie there is, the gender of most characters killed onscreen are overwhelmingly male
Well that was a cute one.
I don't care about hollywood at all, I just hope to see awesome dinosaurs in Jurassic World 2 and 3 with feminists ruining it like they are doing with EVERY movie (cof cof Star Wars)
Easy solution ladies - put on 200 pounds and twenty years (you can short cut this part with ice). Odd how few women choose this option if they find being a sex object is so objectionable. Women want to be seen as sexually attractive - but only by the people they find attractive!
En varias de las películas que he visto durante el último año aparece una mujer golpeando brutalmente a un hombre. Lo contrario es poco común. En Interstellar (atención: ligero spoiler), la protagonista da una paliza brutal a su compañero, lo cuál no impide que él vuelva con ella. En The Party, la mujer, golpea brutalmente a su marido enfermo... por hacer algo que ella también estaba haciendo. Todo eso está normalizado. En todas las películas la vida de las mujeres se valora infinítamente más que la de los hombres. Mueren hombres contínuamente, como churros, sin que tenga la menor importancia.
En la serie Dirk Gently Detective Holístico, por ejemplo, (ligero spoiler) mueren contínuamente hombres asesinados (a menudo por los protagonistas) con el objetivo... de salvar a una adolescente, cuyo comportamiento irracional está a punto de ocasionar aún mayores desgracias. Y todo eso se ve normal. Nadie se pregunta si la vida de una mujer merece el sacrificio de diez hombres: se da por supuesto que sí.
the golden compass has a female hero and villain.....im trying....
I think of how acceptable it is for a woman to punch and slap a man in a movie. Now reverse the genders.
So? 👽
I can turn on Netflix right now and take my pick of movies where men die in droves and no one blinks an eye. But women as potential sex objects?! Heaven forbid! And don't lie to me and say women went to see Thor for the story line.
Boxing, UFC, Pride... Think about all of that spectacles in which men are paid to fight as gladiators. In movies or real spectacles men are usually objetified as fighting or violence objects. I can hear the bigoted feminist saying "well, but men in boxing or MMA are there because they make money", and my answer is, and women appearing nude in movies or magazines are not? It's hypocrisy to claim objectification because one sex sell their image as sexy while the other is selling their pain, bleeding and losing conscience in the worst cases (even in the past some men died in boxing matches or another dangerous sports such as F-1).
Men are objetified as fighting dogs in combat sports, that is a fact. And don't take me wrong, this is not a criticism about those sports, I myself used to practice martial arts, but the point is that if you see the whole picture, the objetification of men is more cruel by far. Yet, I don't see people talking about this.
And don't forget that in some of those combat sports like boxing, most of the guys enter them as a way to scape poverty. I don't know you but I prefer earning money making photos of my nudity rather than to enter a ring to punch, kick and beat the shit out of each other with a guy who I don't know. Those guys are selling his suffering as an spectacle, they are selling their fears, their adrenaline rush, the cruelty of the whole thing... That is at least what many people enjoy (specially women), rather than the technique. If that is not objetification then tell me what it is.
Explain to me how 50 Shades of Grey is the #1 book purchased by women then? Or why Twilight is the biggest piece of garbage in literature history, and yet women eat it up? Again...just another classic case of women wanting to have their cake and eat it to.
If you don't want to be seen as beautiful sex objects, then throw away all your makeup - problem solved. Don't blame men when we notice how gorgeous you are after you spent 1+ hour trying to look that way
Considering the only thing most women have going for them is their sex appeal, why is it surprising they end up auditions for the role of sex objects?