Negative Hoovering, Narcissistic Probing: YOU, the Enemy (Persecutory Object)
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Narcissists attend therapy after collapse or mortification when the grandiose defenses against their vulnerability crumble.
One example of this hybridity (grandiose/vulnerable) is Hoovering.
Narcissist cannot countenance rejection, needs to make sure of the outcomes and resolve cognitive dissonance.
Lovebombing and grooming are forms of probing.
Narcissistic abuse as probing (will she loved me unconditionally, as a mother would?)
Probing via third parties, flying monkeys, in various settings.
Social media stalking as probing.
Consulting others as probing.
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I think I have reached the stage now of the narrsisist visualisation of me as the enemy, you have explained the hovering game well in more detail than anyone else and I now know what strategy I must adopt to avoid the escalation.
It was only after I acted 'aggressive' (not violent, everything within the boundaries of the law) towards the narcissist/psychopath that the hoovering attempts stopped completely. This was no easy decision though, be careful and think it out. Luckily it worked for me and I'm seen as a threat now. If you - on the other hand - like to get hoovered back at random intervals over the course of years, be my guest and treat the narcissist with golden gloves once you go no contact. You have to burn that bridge completely down if you want the annoying hoovering to stop. Mortification, Shared Fantasy and Snapshots are very interesting concepts in this regard. Thanks for the video!
Any way you would feel safe enough to share an example? I don’t know how to stand my ground without acting outside of myself. Basically, I don’t want to go as low as they have, but I am so tired and just want to be left alone
He hovered me last July after a brutal discard the December before.
He told me during that time that he was insecure. He was deeply insecure. Explains a lot of his malicious and gross behavior.
My father is a text book case narcissistic personality. everything you talk about in your videos hits the nail on the head. I moved overseas to help him and my mom out because he is 88 and the treatment I am receiving is beyond cruel, he controls everything from the food we eat to the money, transportation (he has two cars and I am not allowed to drive) and he is asking me to to give him more money directly deposited in his account, I am stuck isolated in a small village totally dependent on him, once I watched some of your videos it became so very clear what I am dealing with, petty, jealously, vengeance, devaluation, demoralization, I have never felt so hated in my 55 years of existence, he panicks over small things and everyday I have to listen to him yelling at me at how inept, stupid ugly and poisonous I am, yet his behaviour outside the home is so different, everyone thinks he is such a wonderful man. At least now I know what I am dealing with, I am so grateful for your videos, I wish I could leave and go back to my life but he makes me feel guilty saying I am an awful daughter if I abandon him and that will prove that I don't love my mother, I don't know if anybody out there knows if there are any laws against this god awful behaviour, it is virtually impossible to coexist with these type of people.
"It is virtually impossible to coexist with these type of people." That is why you need to leave.
I am sure you would leave if it wasnt leaving your mum behind. Is there anyway you can take her too, even if it is for a break?
It’s a very difficult path out of this but out you can get, take your mother if you can, best wishes
@@chatticheswick4939 PRECISELY. Or he'll continue to project ALL that he feels about himself unto her and control her very existence because of the way he feels about himself. There's only ONE WAY out- - - - and that's OUT; to LEAVE.
There's only ONE WAY out- - - - and that's OUT; to LEAVE.
4 fake friend requests in 5 months and they all live in Australia, I'm UK. That's because he works nights, thinks I'm stupid and has nothing better to do. Every one has been rejected. That sack of sh@t is dead to me and it's going to stay that way.
You cared enough to comment 😂 @@zorayas5746
Thank you Professor. I needed to hear this today. Being in the middle of hoovering attempt by ex covert narc.
Thank you. This makes sense as to what I am curently experiencing. Even though I am very angry & hurt, I comprehend that I should restrain myself and alter my response.
I refuse to be the mother. Only after I educated myself I know. Get out. I did. This is the only way to fully heal. You are not responsible, I repeat it, you are not.
Do not try to heal their wounds. You can not. They force you to be responsible, to be their saviour if they are older age and realize sth is wrong with them. Take care of yourself, only yourself. Get out. You deserve better
Decades/years ago before the internet, narcissism was not allowed to be talked about on the media of the day & for most of my life I did not know what narcissism was & I am 68 years old!!
Thank you Sam!! After “no reply” the hoovering started and when that didn’t work, the making me the enemy started and it’s been escalating and I didn’t know how to get out of this cycle. I keep entertaining the making me the enemy cycle cause if I ignore him he escalates to stages I fear for my safety. But if I argue with him, which I assume is a form of supply for him, he will calm back down to start the hoovering again. I haven’t been able to find anything about how to get out of this that makes sense until this video. Thank you so much!!!
Restraining order through court, he pops up call cops. Keep reporting and documenting what being done.
Mine finally stopped when I texted him "one more message and I'm going to the cops, I'm not dealing with your harassment".
I already learnt my lesson with the previous narc. I didn't called the police on him, as I should, in the beginning. He made my life a hell for years... he stalked me, hacked my accounts, broke into my house... never again.
@nds.gdspts omg sorry you went through that smh they are terrorist! It's wild how unhinged they are. So glad you have peace now
Thanks Dr. Vaknin, you are so generous. ❤
25:49 Thank you Professor .I've dealt with a man like this
Narcissistic personality disorder with schizophrenia.
Presents well, extroverted,charming, educated
I've come up with a term to describe it
"Narcissphrenia"
Yes I've been on a constant abusive loop and emotional rollacoster ! Which feels like an eternity! His obsession to destroy is rife ! I've felt the disorientation ! And all the systems you feel being up against the narc ! , You have explained perfectly ! My reality ! ..& who I'm dealing with ,thank you ❤
This happened to me I literally had a guy send me spyware. Also, he brought in people that he consulted about me and he brought them into the whole scenario. This is what a narcissist will do
Thank you for this. I was sensing this was going on in my situation ever since i ignored then walked away from a hoover attempt a year ago. His interactions since have consisted of stalking, dirty looks in traffic, call attempts at inappropriate times through random apps, etc. I wish more people spoke of the potential dangers or what the dangerous period is for a survivor.
The so called love of my life has changed so much that I didn't know what was going on with us until she has destroyed my heart and mind. I am lost without her. But realize that the best way to navigate through all of this is to be alone. So embarrassed and humiliated
Amazing video. Yes, I was hoovered 3 times. At the one month mark, 10 month and at the 2 year. I actually spoke to him on the last attempt and rejected him. Have not heard from him since. I suspect he is stalking me. Please do a video on negative Hoovers. Thank you.
I've been hoovered non stop within the 1 month mark. Now at 6 months it escalated massively. I have spoken with him. I, too, would like to understand how I can get out of this without negative hoovering or further escalation of the love hoovering. I don't really like the feeling that I have to placate the narcissist but I can definitley see things can get out of hand.
@JillianReeves you need to get a restraining order through court first off. Document and report the harassment
Sam, this video is outstanding. I have been listening to you on and off for years and I thought I heard it all. This makes perfect sense and brought it all home for me. Many thanks!
My narcissist is pretty close to collapse, I think... Therapy-ready.... It has been many years of illusion and delusion on both sides
Well done .
The “delusion” on your side is that you are responsible for his behavior and/or recovery. You didn’t cause it. You won’t fix it. I’m not being mean. I’m speaking from decades of experience. The only focus you should have right now is on yourself. Whether you stay (I did) or whether you leave. Either way you need to rediscover the person you were before he invaded your psyche and took over it. He won’t like it. Maybe he’ll even leave. But don’t give up on taking yourself back. Always be studying his voice, body language, etc. Lol-after a while it can actually become somewhat entertaining. You start to see that he’s nothing more than an actor on a stage. Take care of yourself, and get your popcorn when it comes to him 😄
@@zorayas5746 yes....
@@zorayas5746 somebody did care enough to write an intelligent, encouraging, experienced response, for which I am extremely grateful...
@@zorayas5746on the contrary, am very grateful for the above interesting, interested, experienced and caring, response... Very un-bot-like....
Makes perfect sense. My mother has died long ago, but her diagnosis was bipolar paranoid schizophrenic. But everything you said, matches my relationship with her as well as my Dad's relationship with her. Would have been helpful to know 60 years ago, but I am happy to hear it now.
when I went through my last Narcissistic experience the professor scared the shit out of me to the point where I discarded the narcissist before they had a chance to do it to me. went no contact for 30 days blocked on all social media and gave myself time to heal, a few months later after talking to the narcissists roommate after initially warning she called me to tell me she threw them out out of her apartment.
The most profound bit of information 13:39 - 14:00. I finally get it.
An innocent comment is an insult. Rite on with that one
Your video explanations why my narcissist ex took 21/2 years to finalized the divorce! He filed so had control over direction timeline. He was hoovering me! Now I understand
Thank you Sam V! Appreciate you 🙏
Once again this makes so much sense! When they are threatened by reflection they become negative, sabotaging etc. I could never understand why this odd devaluing behavior, that had zero to do with reality, appeared to come out of nowhere.
Just in the right time and you are absolutely accurate as I am experiencing hoovering after half year of ending the relationship.
I went no contact and blocked him every where and never tried to spy on him. Moved on with my life in a new healthy relationship.
He's back (with nes social media and phone number) because wants to talk about how we badly ended things, but when he talked it was about everything but how badly we ended. Tried to cajole me and highlighted all me good qualities but let him know it didn't work.
Now he's only reacting to my stories testing the waters.
He didn't dare ask me back because his week false self can't take a No for an answer.
5:16 mark is spot on. The under belly gets exposed.
Wow. So so on point!!
This sounds exactly like what has been going on with my BPD ex partner after she discarded me in January-February. Is there overlap here? We couldn’t even have one conversation, it ended by text.
This week she came to my place of work. She didn’t speak to me, she did make sure I saw her though - but according to my colleagues, she’d also come the previous week whilst I was on leave. The past months have involved near-constant checking up and subliminal messaging on social media until I blocked her a month ago.
From this video, my assumption is that her insecurity / abandonment fears are what’s caused the complete avoidance of any conversation - but the willingness to hoover + stalk is a part of this probing, trying to pull me back, perhaps to be ‘topped up’ by me begging for a return.
Thanks for your input, I was trying to make sense of why she kept probing me but never sent an email or a letter. She tried calling me though, but then ignored me when I called her back (to tell her to stop contacting me, because I cannot trust her anymore).
Communicating with them (even nonverbally) is so unnecessarily complicated with them.
Great insights and straight forward observations on the epidemic/pandemic named “narcissism” BPD/Pycho-Sociopathic behaviors. Would like hear from you on Parent/Grandparent alienation when personality disorder is the governing factor and how to minimize the adverse affects on the children involved.. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you so much Dear Professor Sam Vaknin ❤
Thank you
Another amazing video thank you Professor Sam, when you upload has become my favourite time of the day!
A question please, so many online doctors say covert narcissists never return to hoover once their mask slips, I’m wondering if you think this is correct?
Kindest regards!
Online self-styled “experts” with and without academic degrees talk a lot of nonsense.
They absolutely do. Very grateful to have finally come to true understanding through listening to you.
I love your videos and your book! This information is priceless!!!
This explains my experience with my narc husband.
So many say "no contact." I have found that if I do that, he will stalk. I appreciate that you mentioned how to communicate.
He stalks then get the law involved, bowing down doesn't help them
That is supposed to work in theory. Local police help him. Things become very twisted.
@@empressb444it’s nearly impossible to get a stalker arrested - anything less can often just magnify the attacks.
Thanks Sam, have a great week.
Mom realised at the age of 81 that her husband is a narcisist, they were married for 56 years
Oof thats rough. What did she think he was? Just a cruel person i guess?
If the narcissist goes to prison for attempted murder of his victim, will he continue to hoover or seek revenge upon his release? Unfortunately, he received a short prison term.
Not if he has been mortified (shamed or humiliated) by his experience.
How do you explain the increase in narcissism, when geberallly the upbringing and attention children get these days is better than in the old days? At least thats what pedagogues have concluded over the past years?
Wrong types of upbringing and attention.
I’m grateful for the insight. He made multiple failed Hoovers, and has been probing for more than one year. I’ve taken notice to two potential flying monkeys. I believe he has started a smear campaign after he failed to trigger me; he intentionally stepped in front of me so I would walk into him, but I was unbothered. I’ve held my boundaries and have been gray rock for 18 months. He’s appears frustrated that he sees that he can’t trigger me. I have made the decision to change my work location in hopes that it will limit his access to me.
The most profound revelations by the professor. Thank you very much.
Oh my gosh. How awful for them. This is not living ??!!
I always knew there was some thinking wrong with me, current my 12 year partner wonna leave me ( we got 2 kids) and i just realise im N...
Great content, wonna do live zoom maybe?
I need help, heavy stuff
Do narcissists ever use procreation as a way of converting their female romantic partners into literal maternal figures and then separate and individuate by abandoning them? Asking for a friend.
They convert romantic partners into maternal figures at the very beginning of the shared fantasy.
شكرا أستاذ
Mr. Vaknin when you say narcissists are self aware do you mean they know they have NPD and accept this fact or they know there is something wrong with them but they can't name it
They know who they are and what they are doing. They see nothing wrong with either (until they are mortified or hit rock bottom).
@@samvaknin i watch you because i want to understand the dutch mass spermdonor Jonathan Jacob Meijer (over 600 kids).. can you please explain his behaviour.
If the narc have try but did not succeed to hoover me, and now during 10 months is not trying to hoovering anymore, after 10 months no contact from me. What he will do next? I m not divorced yet, just have run away with two children. Thank you Sam.
Thank you again Sam. I always learn so much from you. I'm 10 months no contact and I've kept in mind what you're saying about negative hoovering. He has done everything you've said as far as hoovering. He hasn't made me an enemy yet..I'm wondering if he's done?
I’ve been seeing someone for three months and have recently understood he might have NPD. He broke up with me two weeks ago.
Now he wants to meet and see if we can work it out saying he is sorry for how emotionally damaged he is and he thinks we had miscommunication (duh) and that he handled things wrong.
Do narcissists admit such things? Was I wrong to label him?
Whatever works.
He's admitting he's wrong because he needs you back. Narcissist will apologize when it benefits them to.
I’m a bit confused… some don’t Hoover or do malignant things like spying stalking etc. afterwards to reconcile the snapshot and reduce feelings of unease and unrest. Some just leave
Watch tomorrow’s video.
Hello professor! You said in one of your videos that a narcissist makes his partner a borderline for a period of their relationship. How can one know if they’re borderline because of having gone through a relationship with a narcissist or if it’s their internal dynamic (not sure this is the correct term but I can’t find a better one) that existed even before the narcissist?
Search the comorbdities playlist.
Profesor, please, I need your advice on the negative hoovering I'm dealing with at my work from my influential colleague.
Last year we had a relationship, when I definitely became his potential intimate partner in shared fantasy. Relationship ended because of the outside circumstances, when love bombing phase hasn't naturally ended yet. I initiated no private contact (in opposition of what he wanted), but we both stayed at our workplace. Soon he cut me off every project he was involved in, which was painful but not aggressive. Now, a year after going no private contact, barely saying 'hi' at work, after discard and devaluation I observe more and more passive-agresive behaviours and I start to worry it may escalate and my career may suffer. Is there a way to stay at this workplace and deal somehow with the situation or there is no point and the only solution is to find other job (which I would rather not having to). Please help, thank you.
He views your no contact with him as a betrayal and now see u as an enemy and the more it prolongs, the more negative he will become bc seeing you is a reminder of that rejection. So he's punishing you and sees you as all bad now in his mind. Never sh!t where you eat!
How does he select which former supply to hoover if had several supplies before?
Most commonly, he attempts to hoover most of them at once.
@@samvaknin thankyou sir
How to go NO CONTACT, if he visits all the places that I visit purposely to annoy me
Change your routine. Change where you go. Try something new.
You said you dont read comments..but i must try. I appreciate the info you share.. could you share more info on family dynamics of narcissistic parents, families, shared psychosis? Ive been stuck in a life long loop. I have ditched the ex narc husband but now i need to address narcissistic family dynamics that drove me to choose narcs as husbands
I never said I don’t read comments. As to your comment: search the channel.
Sam... what is the name of the psychologist you mentioned please... Ilsa ???
See the literature lists in the descriptions of the videos.
I'll tell you: Elsa Ronningstam 👍🏻
Will a female narcissist treat their partner like a paternal partner?
No. Search the shared fantasy playlist.
What do you mean by shoshanim?
Prof Im being discarded by a Non-Hoovering prideful Narcissist after 13 yr on and off LTR. This time feels like the end. I DONT WANT IT TO END. Can I plant any seeds during the discard / Devalue conversation to short circuit the discard or to make her regret the discard and she eventually Hoovers? Im patient. T.Y. @Prof.SamVaknin
You want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with you? Even worse, this person is a narcissist. You probably have low self-esteem. I think it's best that you learn first about yourself, why you chose such a person. You already were narcissistic supply for 13y, and still it's not enough? Grow, get your stuff together and then find the right partner. You can do it💪
I'm so glad I watched this! I left my covert husband a year ago. When I first told him I wanted a divorce and before I'd moved, he addressed me as "my enemy" (the push I needed out the door was the holiday he'd taken a few weeks before with another woman, but I was the enemy!) for a few weeks. Then he saw that didn't work, so he's being relatively nice and cooperative since then. We have children, so I'm interested in peacekeeping. I avoid provoking him, am civil and keep him at low-contact/arm's length. It was instinctive. I know how ugly it will get if he feels there's nothing more to lose. Your video helped me realize I'm doing the right thing, despite all the buzz. I don't need to ruin him or make him pay, I just want freedom and peace.
Exactly, don't waste your own life becoming the persecutory object. Move on and go no contact, focus on personal growth and independance.
Your success is the narcissists failure
"...testing your mettle, seeing how you will behave under a variety of conditions." Wow, this explains a lot of otherwise unexplainable behavior. Thank you!
What happens after you state boundaries politely and go no contact again? Do they still choose a love or hate object to hoover or does this help them let it go? I've been hoovered non stop within the 1 month mark. Now at 6 months it escalated massively. I have spoken with him. I, too, would like to understand how I can get out of this without negative hoovering or further escalation of the love hoovering. I don't really like the feeling that I have to placate the narcissist but I can definitley see things can get out of hand especially since his life is collapsing and i was a main supply who ended up outting him. I think the fact that he needs our shared fantasy so much in this moment is the only reason I'm not being hate hoovered. Tough to naviagate for sure.
Block, block, and block! How are things now?
How long until they stop trying to ruin your life?
@samvaknin forgot to ask you this question: what you explain in the video stands for ALL the partners that a narcissist has discarded or been discarded by? if yes, how long will this last? willl he try to hoover all of them for the rest of his/their lives?
Yes. Unless they have mortified him, they are all on standby.
@@samvaknin wow! it is a full-time job to keep in touch with hundreds of women, even if distributed over a lifetime...amazing energy
@@samvakninSo telling them you know who they are at their core in the end would lead to mortification, subsequently ceasing future hoovering.
Seems like a good tactic to that victims could use if so to prevent hoovering?
They're in his introject filing system... until they're needed
It is so hard to bother to give empathy to people… I still try. I went out with two last night and had to listen to their “poor me” spiel… We have all experienced injustice but get on with things… In the end, after their whining and complaining about their lives, when I explained my life and position to them, they were floored at how disadvantaged I was, yet was only answered their questions because they were probing for information to use against me, which is how they found out and realized they had been banging the loser drum to someone who had been through worse. Yet, their pain was all that mattered…In reality, they felt like losers because I although I have had it harder, I smile and get on with things without complaining. “Maybe it is a European thing?” I thought to myself, but shut the thought down right in its tracks. Truthfully, I have seen the squeaky and aggressive wheel get cleaned everywhere and in many circumstances. The silent ones are ignored, until their state inconveniences the most entitled. It is ugly to watch them crashing and burning and yes… collapsing, but if only they actually felt any shame… So entitled- even in their demise (maybe a psychopath…?). I hope people get what they deserve and the only way is informing oneself (ie, read/ UA-cam) so capital is not distributed to people who are ignorant to the fact they are missing certain developmental blocks.
Dr Sam, I agree- do not over share (I have no social media account) and also, ignore inappropriate/ personal questions or change the subject because others ask questions that are inappropriate and probing and should be shamed. It can stop narcissistic abuse and is no one’s bloody business. It is very easy to silence inexperienced and uninformed people. Become aware. Walk away if you need to. At some point someone will need to name and shame this behavior, but I agree with the strategy described. Also, I have noticed the forced enemy can be a tool institutions use on a systemic level against a collective. This channel is useful and applicable to many contexts. Thank you.
Dr. Vaknin, please expand on parental alienation and how to cope with loosing our kids ( even adult children) in future videos.
Please search the channel.