I think Soul Hackers 2 suffered from an identity crisis. It wanted to modernize the feel of the original Soul Hackers while trying to appeal to Persona fans and mainline SMT fans simultaniously. It trying to please everybody, it pleased nobody. The day one DLC didn't help endear the game with fans either.
Yeah TMS wanted be for SMT and Fire Emblem fans, and instead of Majin Tensei (which was ,,real'' SMT x FE game), we got Persona 4,5 in idol setting.@@therealjaystone2344
So I'm not the only one thinking it reeks of Persona vibes... I love Persona, but when a non Persona game starts to try to feel like Persona, especially with how Segatlus tries to MILK P5, yah. It gets bad. I hope their future titles won't try to be P5 all over again, but with different skins. Sure, there was SMT5 that was more normal, but I hope it won't become an exception in what they release next (outside of remakes and remasters).
Also worth mentioning ATLUS didn't develop Soul Hackers 2 for the Switch, which is the most prominent platform in Japan, and is best for niche dungeon RPGs like Soul Hackers 2. That was a very strange business decision that certainly hampered sales and reception.
I found that weird too. It doesn't look like it *wouldn't* work on the Switch (Especially considering SMT5 is Switch exclusive), tho idk the stuff behind-the-scenes, so *maybe* there could have been an issue with it on Switch? I wouldn't know.
@@fishingmule3266yeah especially since smt5 in the Switch alone managed to sell a million copies. Heck the smt 3 nocturne remaster sold 600,000 copies.
SMT V is on Switch and it took 6 months to hit a million which is pathetic , P5R's ports did that in about half the time. So no it wouldn't have sold any better. It also didn't help that the p3-5 ports were coming out and guess which fans and atlus cared more about? SH2 failed for the same reason SMT V and every other non P3/4/5 game fails or under-performs, Atlus only care about P3/4/5.
On the topic of dungeons, i’m very disappointed in how SH2 handled this aspect considering how varied and interesting SH1’s locations were. You literally go to a digital art museum and jump into paintings and they come with interesting gimmicks and puzzles. Here its just the same few dungeon designs with very basic layouts. They should’ve just made this game its own thing.
Yeah, dungeons and Vision Quest were best parts of original Soul Hackers. Dungeons were shorts, but each one had unique puzzle, and there were many of them. In SH2 is just Subway, Subaway, Subway and Soul Matrix which is like random generated Tartarus from Persona 3, or YHVH Universe from SMT IV Apocalypse. Music in SH1 was phenomenal, but in SH2 is generic asf. I also miss gothic cyberpunk atmosphere from SH1. Combat in SH2 is just One More variation from Persona 3-5, with Commander Skills from Strange Journey Redux.
The non-cyberspace dungeons in the first game are pretty boring though. I actually turned on the "hack" on the 3DS version to make the dungeons automatically mapped out, because they were so bland.
I don't get the appeal of Soul Hackers over Soul Hackers 2. I had bought SH ages ago and played maybe an hour of it and it didn't appeal to me at all, and finally ended up playing it in preparation for SH2. I can say overwhelmingly that I didn't think the original Soul Hackers was a very good game... it ranks near the bottom of ATLUS games for me. It felt super weaksauce in story and characters and dungeon design. SH2 had problems, but was a much more refined game, IMO.
@@ltb1345 I don’t agree at all. You went though corporate buildings and skyscrapers, chilling facilities, underground labs, a *god damn* monkey testing facility. Sure the layouts could get tiring from time to time but at least you going through aesthetically different and interesting areas.
@@vorpal22 You are free to have your opinion, but that doesn’t change the fact that by calling this a sequel to Soul Hackers and then going out of their way to make it *not* that in everything but name is pretty disappointing for fans of the first game.
I remember when this game came out and everyone was saying that the reason it didn't sell was because they didn't market it. But that just, wasn't true. They went pretty all out with stuff like the announcement, and even getting ad space on that one fancy 3D billboard we've all seen videos of, which I can't imagine is cheap. I think the issue was more so in the fact that I'm not sure who they were marketing to. I think they were trying to get people who liked P5 into other branches of SMT, but I feel like Soul Hackers was the wrong decision to do that with, and by P5-ifying soul hackers, they made the fans of the original game feel alienated by the new style. I think the way they made it and advertised it just left it without much of an audience beyond the people who would buy just about anything attached to the SMT brand.
SH2 was announced after Persona 3-5 ports announcements = dead on arrival. Also SH2 don't looked like Devil Summoner game (a detective JRPG with ocult elements), which pissed of most of SMT fans. And Sega / Atlus should know most of Persona fans play only P3-P5, and just don't care about rest of games in franchise. Just like most of Sonic and Yakuza fans don't care about classic Sega IP's like Jet Set Radio, Panzer Dragoon, or Valkyria Chronicles. No brand building awereness Devil Summoner since 2008 (Raidou Kuzunoha versus King Abaddon). It's really hard to revive old franchise, especially without huge marketing, and being low budget AA title.
It's funny because SH2 kind of reminded me of Tokyo Mirage Sessions, a game that looked like it was trying to appeal to Persona fans instead of SMT, only for it to attract neither fans and flop. Then I looked up to find out that this has the same co-director and producer.
@@nr2676I mean you can't deny Yakuza having the Sega arcades didn't have ANY impact. Also it's funny how you list Valkria Chronicles as classic when it's the newest out of those. Also You could argue the same thing about Valkria Chronicles, it did nothing for Skies of Arcadia's brand recognition.
Those were examples of franchises what most of Sonic / Yakuza fans don't care about it. And considered there is no news about Valkyria Chronicles 4, since 2018 i considered this franchise as a classic, because we don't know it is dead or not. Skies of Arcadia is ofcourse also classic Sega franchise, like Shinobi, Golden Axe, Streets of Rage, Sakura Wars, Virtua Fighter etc. @@Chelaxim
One of the things I worry about with modern Atlus is how into things the devs are. Who in the team is particularly into the occult? Who is particularly into cyberpunk? Who is into detective stories even if it is just a bit of a phase? SH2 going wrong was a shame cause it means people go see they should just make carbon copies of older games. But a team really into this neon anime cyberpunk could've made it work. Sadly most of the young staff are likely just hoping they can get onto the next Persona.
Team Maniax who does Mainline SMT seems like they don't really want to be working on SMT. That can be seen in the final product of Apocalypse and the lack of genuine inspiration in SMT V
Nah. I think Sega forcing them to change everything into Persona. Just look at Team Maniax games released after fusion with Sega (after SMT IV). More anime and easier.@@athorem
@@nr2676 If that's the narrative you want to spread, okay. But if you read the interviews for Apocalypse it reveals that a good portion of the SMT team was responsible for the more anime tone of the game because that's just the kind of game they wanted to make. Mostly the newer members IIRC
@@athorem SMT V definitely had way more of an SMT tone than Apocalypse did. The problem with V was that they tried too hard to make it like Nocturne, ironically.
Funny that this video came out a week after I grabbed the platinum trophy for this game. For those wondering, no, it was not a fun platinum trophy to get
@oshunanat the issue was not about the difficulty. The issue comes with how boring it was. I got the true ending on my first run because i wanted a blind playthrough and going into NG+ was doing the exact same thing but with no grinding. What a borefest. At least Persona games are more interesting to me because I use NG+ to max out social links so I can experience new stuff
@@Especis yeah, that's fair, but given how many issues it has, I figured only the most die hard would even bother so figure some enjoyment of the game.
This game felt like they developed cool characters, spent good money on voice actors and illustrations, then the gameplay department just said ROCK PAPER SCISSORS AND TUNNELS THATS IT.
This makes me sad because I genuinely love the game, and it’s stuck with me since beating it. The art direction, the music, the characters, the entire vibe, I love it. Yes the dungeons were flat but I really enjoyed it regardless, and could see a sequel doing a lot to improve this aspect. I agree with what you’re alluding to in that if it wasn’t called Soul Hackers 2 I think it could’ve performed better. Also a Switch release would’ve helped.
Totally agree with you. I was super psyched for this game, I loved it except for the repetitive dungeon revisiting and the rather uninspired dungeon design. The characters, graphics, music, and plot were all pretty fantastic. I'm really hoping that Metaphor Re:Fantazio is a big hit, because it looks amazing, and it seems like Persona 5 fans have overwhelmed ATLUS fans and only want more Persona 5.P3RE is basically just a remake of P3 in the style of P5 to appeal to them, I think. I'm getting progressively more and more disappointed in the stagnation that ATLUS has been forced into because of the success of Persona 5: this was the only game they made that wasn't "playing it safe" or expending little effort since SMTV and I'm rapidly losing interest in lieu of other JRPG companies.
Honestly, the game kinda like it's a Switch game. The repetitive dungeon design, the saving anywhere anytime, the Soul Matrix, it all kinda feels like the game was meant to be played in smaller chunks during a work commute, where you wouldn't be able to notice those things or they wouldn't affect you as much because you're receiving it in a dozen twenty minute chunks rather than a single multi-hour chunk.
I think Soul Hackers 2 became a test for several things. All adult cast, more simplistic gameplay, different story take and approach with providing the main cast very early in, and how popular the west takes to these differences. When you look at it from afar SH2 does basically everything the more vocal western fans state, it's just that it meshed together awkwardly as it seems to be all new territory for the team who made this. Sad it didn't end up as a happy cult hit accident like Catherine did
I don't think they clearly communicated that these are adult characters as opposed to teens in the marketing. If they wanted to communicate they are adults with adult problems, maybe dressing them like pop idols wasn't a great idea.
I feel like you missed the major point of why it failed. It took the name of Soul Hackers, while looking like a Persona game in its entirely. You're not just one dude summoning demons going through dungeons, instead it's the Persona formula. But I agree with your closing statements, love me some Devil Survivor.
When P3 was released, it drew huge outcry from P1/2 fans, but P3 was able to last. So a departure from the previous game isn't necessarily the problem, it's more down to production value.
Yes I’m a fan of these games and didn’t even make the Devil summoner connection. I bought the game but didn’t even play. If it had devil summoner in the title I would have tried it.
It is one game that felt really soulless, and it's coming from game that have “Soul” in its title. Even from battle transition, you can compare it with recent P3Reload trailer, how different that point alone, you can clearly feel which are crafted with passion, and which only there to tick the checklist.
It did feel lacking with how they tried to connect with the first Soul Hackers with the Dark Summoners and Devil Summoners with their conflict being part of the setting but none of the characters from Spooky and the like except for Azazel.
Soul Hackers 2 launched in the US and Japan six months to the day after it was announced. While this was impressive and showed they learned from SMT V, it also meant the game wasn't tested properly and they didn't have enough feedback. Yes, they saved a lot of money, and it was a budget title, and it did make money, but it damaged their brand. The original Devil Summoner still doesn't have an English patch, the Raidou games are inaccessible, and the 3DS is a dead system. If they were going with the Soul Hackers tag, I get it, but they should have gone with a subtitle instead of a number. Do the Raidou thing and call if Devil Summoner: Ringo Versus Iron Mask. The naming system they used just didn't make sense. I agree it should have been the third pillar. I mean, Devil Summoner even had a TV show. This should be a cornerstone franchise. Instead, we're not getting another one for a long time now, and all I want is a remake of the original. Cool that you used footage from the live action battle. My youngest is loves Super Sentai, and he thought it was awesome. Edit: Oh, and Soul Hackers 2 needs a Switch port BADLY. I'd buy it immediately. Make it happen, Atlus!
Both Raidou titles are/were available through the PS3 PlayStation Store in English. As for a Switch port for SH2, I agree but also I don't: SMT 5 (great game) had a lot of people complaining about how not cinematic it was, due to the strong limitations of the system. SH2 struggled in load times alone anywhere it wasn't directly installed onto an SSD. I can't imagine how terrible the experience would be for someone to try to play SH2 in handheld mode on the Switch -- remember that Switch games have to work while docked and not, and the Switch Lite exists. Strongly agree with you that the name should have included Devil Summoner and followed the Raidou naming scheme.
@@Invariel I have both Raidou and Digital Devil Saga games on my PS3, but they're not accessible anymore to most people. At the remarkably slow rate that SMT games are released, I just think it would be logical if they would continue to make their old content available as broadly as possible. Sega does it with their Genesis collection in every generation. Right now, Atlus games are emulated everywhere, earning them zero dollars. Even if they could be played in a browser on their website while ads ran around them, they could at least make some money. It's just unfortunate and lazy. As far as SH2 on Switch, they have the time to optimize the game now. Drop the frame rate to 30, streamline some of the features, and put it out. Tears of the Kingdom is locked at 30 fps, and it's still selling. The Switch even got Nier Automata earlier this year, and that's considered the definitive way to play the game now. It's not that they can't, but that they won't.
I have slowly been combing through soul hackers 2 and there is something there that makes me come back. The party is interesting and I am constantly curious about the setting. Its brimming with potential and makes my little fanfiction and speculation brain go brrr. But man I feel the lack of dungeon variety. Im at one of the last dungeons now with the whole undersea aesthetic and I love this dungeon, it was the first to really grab me. If just one of the underground lines thats used could be switched out for another location. Maybe a overgrown abandoned park for example. Heck even the soul matrix could have slight changes aesthetically depending on whos matrix you are in with some sort of character color coding or maybe puzzle types exclusive to one particular character. As it i snow its to easy to forget whos amtrix i am currently working through.
IMHO, this is the review of it right here. There's something special with the cast, and I love the aesthetic, but clearly they didn't have time/budget to do it justice.
I 100%'ed the game after the sprint update and don't believe I would have without it. While the ability to sprint allows you to outrun all the enemies, making them much less of a threat, it gives you a more agency over how much grinding you want to do. Also I can't imagine completing all of the Soul Matrix at the default speed where, even with the sprint, it was an absolute slog navigating the maze-like corridors and the frustrating portals that drop you in random spots on the map. The sprint update was absolutely necessary, and while it may have shifted the game design away from a traditional grindy dungeon crawler, it helped me reach the end of the game.
adding a sprint option, even if necessary showed lack of talent, vision or care. changing movement can break design immensly. Especially level design. It didnt here, but the fact this wasnt thought of before launch (hell even designing and developing the game)is absolutely crazy.
I'm starting to doubt they even wanted Soul Hackers to be a third pillar considering the scope of this game. Is there any actual proof that they were specifically talking about Soul Hackers as the third pillar franchise? I know Hashino specifically said Metaphor was the third pillar in the interview for that game.
Today all game studio ms are aspired to create a lasting series because this helps retain fanbase. I am not sure if Atlus ever admitted wanting SH to be another studio pillar, but the ambition is there, just with insufficient commitment.
I think their third pillar is going to be the Metaphor series. SH was an experiment to see if it was worth to revive Megaten's other series (Raidou, DDS, DeSu and etc.)
The biggest issue with SH2 is that it called itself a part of the Devil Summoners line while just being a literal Persona clone. The thing is that Devil Summoners were closer to the mainline SMT than Persona and so those of us who wanted something either close to the mainline SMT series or the original Devil Summoner system of gameplay and we were denied it in favor of "look at our new totally not Persona game that is infact just Persona!"
I disagree that Soul Hackers 2 is a persona clone. Maybe only in the visuals? Has no high school. Has no dating elements. Has no calendar. Protagonist is an actual character with dialog instead of a silent protag. Don't you think these are important elements of Persona? If anything, they could've taken more inspiration from Persona 5, which has much more interesting dungeon design
Buff / debuff system from Persona games not mainline SMT games, characters are anime tropes like in persona games (for example there is mascot character, inteligent girl with 1M IQ, bro character etc. all those tropies are from highschool anime, but instead of teenegers we got adults with those anime tropes), similar interface to Persona 5, pseudo Social Links / bonds system, power of friendship (happy ending), no Demon Summoning in battle, Sabath is just All-Out-Attack from Persona games, with one twist - you can use that also in boss battles, dungeons reminds me random generated dungeons from Persona 4, no demons in battle like in previous Devil Summoner games, you play as a group of characters, colorfull artstyle pandering to Persona / Tokio MIrrage Sessions fans not to SMT / Devil Summoner fans. The only thing is diffirent from modern Persona games is: adult cast (but with highschool anime tropes), setting, and MC is not silent (in Megaten series, Atlus did that in past only in Majin Tensei games).Rest is more like Persona 5 without Dating Sim + Commander Skills from Strange Journey Redux + Viktor, Ginko and COMP from Devil Summoner. @@capngeeoff
@@nr2676Tbh, single target Luster Candy and Debilitate is better for balancing, and Sabbaths are more like SJ's demon coops, in fact, quite a bit of the balancing seems to be based on SJ and SJR
Specifically, Devil Summoner puts focus on demons and the occult in a more contemporary setting, where demons exist alongside humanity in the modern world. Unlike mainline where the apocalypse puts demons on top, in Devil Summoner they have to coexist. And that is a big thing Soul Hackers 2 forgets. By treating the demons as little more than Persona's, they end up feeling completely disconnected from the world around them. The two are supposed to be interwoven, not something just slapped together.
Erm, the assassin's step skill was changed because of the backlash toward Ringo's regular walking speed. That's why it was patched post release. Actually Atlus listening to the fans, which came a bit too late to save the game unfortunately. I'm not sure if the game could be salvaged one year later. I had a good time with it overall, but I know a lot of people gave up on it. A bit similarly to the original Soul Hackers, people either loved the style, ambiance, music, Nemissa or hated the dungeon crawling, high encounter rate, no demon leveling, higher difficulty than other 2010+ MegaTen games. But in hindsight it was an almost impossible task to rake the most people for this game. A cyberpunk anime game in 2022 couldn't be in the same category as a cyberpunk anime game from 1997. A video call was futuristic in 1997, but after Covid? Not so much. Same with the vaporwave aesthetics of the game being more ironic when used nowadays. They could've tried making a faithful sequel, but i feel like it would've missed the mark anyway because it would've probably only appeal to fans of the first one and would've feel forced somehow. It was probably a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I think Atlus is in hard situation right now, kinda reminds me of Squaresoft post FF7. I see a lot of the same kind of criticism...
“What was popular then won’t be popular now” I completely disagree not everything has to be eternally progressive. Vaporwave/future funk, the constant 80’s DLC events in games and references in movies. Matrix cyber punk is still beloved today. I would also argue how often trying to modernize a franchise often has actually hurt rather than help.
I still love this little, desolated and short rushjob of a game. Ringo is the best, anything for more voiced protagonists and less mute self-inserts. I just like to imagine how great it'd be to have the budget of a brand new mainline Persona game with the gameplay of SMT V, a plot like Nocture or SMT IV and a cast as strong as the one from Soul Hackers 2. That would be Megaten Perfection.
Soul hackers has always been extremely niche, honestly I think they just need to bring back the Digital Devil Saga, at least that one was more known and also different.
As a person who is a fan of Tokyo Mirage Sessions, it's kinda sad seeing those same devs managed to make up flaws in their next game that wasn't apparent in their past game. To me, those devs KNOW how to make a game. However, I think the devs have a trouble with branding and style for those games. At least with TMS, they can go all out with the game thanks to that Nintendo budget hiring Avex, so much production to the animations to sell the game being all about the characters being able to perform. That's the appeal of TMS to me, the ATLUS style that people expect from their higher budget games. While Soul Hackers 2 doesn't seem to satisfy both the gameplay and spectacle crowd right away. Soul Hackers 2 has good combat, but it's not distinct enough combat in the looks and gameplay. It's standard ATLUS combat that doesn't seem to have anything cool other than the Sabbath system happening. The characters just either use their weapon or shoot. The designs are hit or miss to people that want an extremely modern anime style to character designs as well. I think people just saw ATLUS not going all out on the game, there wasn't anything REALLY STRONG about the game other than the SMT elements that seem cool to SMT fans. But the game falls cheap in other places.
I wonder if Metaphor woulda been the 4th pillar instead of the 3rd pillar if Soul Hackers 2 was successful or did they just decide to get to work on Metaphor because if Soul Hackers 2's failure
i almost finish my 1st playtrough of soul hackers 2 on hard, and it starts really good but it gives you everything in the first 2 hours and then nothing for the next 40 hours
Really wished they listened to the audiences request and made a new Devil Summoner game instead of this half-baked pseudo sequel of the most popular entry. The Kuzunoha clan in those games were such an interesting concept to me and it's just a waste to not explore them any further.
The need to update SH2 to modern design philosophy was bad. It makes sense that the old 90's scifi was not old at the time, but this is no excuse. It's clear the people in charge of design didn't understand why Soul Hackers still resonated with people to this day.
I believe the sprint patch came from criticism that you lose such function in early NG+ (which you'd want to do to max out the soul matrix) until you unlock it again through Milady's soul matrix. The replacement skill was the afterthought. It is like Pokemon's Running Shoes in the original Gen 3, where once you get used to it there's no turning back - hence that item gets introduced at the start / a few minutes in in newer generations (vs older gen where you'd complete a task that asks you to go back and forth for a while before you get them). There's also the clunkiness that you have to cast it every now and then once the effect fades pre-patch (which is more annoying than casting Estoma or Riberama as the latter two are more intentional in casting to get more / less encounters).
I thought Etrian Odyssey would be pushed as the third pillar, next to SMT and Persona, the teaser for the next game was 5 years ago, wich for Atlus is not that much, so i wonder what's next for the franchise.
Soul Hackers feels like atlus taking it's older IPs and making it more like persona. At least style wise. Soul Hackers had strong characters but they felt like something out of a 90s OVA, now it's just the same shade of anime all over again and I think the series lost a bit of its uniqueness due to that. Also it's weird how despite it being a dungeon RPG, most of the dungeons look the same, not because of their design, its just that everything is so drenched in bright colourful neon that everything ends up looking the same. Also atlus is becoming more and more shady with it's DLCs.
I think that it failed by not returning to the edgy old cyberpunk vibe, with actual hackers and anti corpo messaging that probably just didn’t sit well with atlus. It also needed to have more fun dungeons.
Probably one of the unintentionally comedic moments of SH2 was one of the characters talks about how in this future corporations will cynically sell you back your nostalgia for profits. In a game that's banking on your nostalgia for a past title that also has paid DLC featuring well known demons like Mara or Nemissa.
My take is that this game was originally Tokyo Mirage Sessions 2. They pitched it to Nintendo, it was rejected and they repurposed it to as a SMT game.
Doesn't seem like they gave it the budget to "become the third Pillar" in the first place. its ok tho because Sega allocated that money to the most by the numbers generic hero shooter possible.
honestly i feel like SH2's biggest problem was that it tried to be "the third pillar" and came short, rather than trying to just be a good game. The game was fun, but it felt like it spent too much time on it's style-identity, rather than it's gameplay-identity (the battle system being much closer to a generic jrpg, rather than the press turn and one more of SMT and Persona) they tried too hard to make a third pillar, making a very pretty pillar, but it doesn't matter how pretty a pillar is if the base is comprimised
I'm trying not to buy any more games for a good while, so even if it had made its way to Switch I probably wouldn't have bought it, but it *would* at least end up on my eShop wishlist cause it at least looks interesting without any other context.
The issue with Atlus is they are too afraid of failure to step out and do a new IP. And entirely new project, not something indicative of previous works worlds or mythos. A brand new idea to really bring something fresh to the table. The issue with bringing something already established to the market is that those who played the previous iteration already have set expectations which are quite difficult to meet. Especially when their recollection of said world is most of the time more vivid and recent and (let's be honest correct) than the devs most of the time. Bias, constant movement between projects and many other things obscured their idea and if it isn't Persona 5 they really dont care enough... Because no matter what, people keep buying the same games over and over again....
Catherine, Trauma Center and Radiant Historia were great ,,experimential'' titles from Atlus.Problem is those games don't sale that good like Persona, or even mainline SMT.
Except for Persona that's true. ReFantazio looks amazing and Persona 3 Reloaded it's one of my most hyped games for next year, Royal also heavily improved P5 with Maruki. But meanwhile, the other IPs are really having heavy issues. V is a great game but the story it's very bland and among other issues, IV:A has great gameplay but barely feels like Smt and the writting is terrible and SH2 was souless.
Persona is also getting worse after P4 (acquistion by Sega). Especially with story, one dimensional characters, and horrible pacing (caused by Calendar). But diffirence with Persona and other Atlus games is Persona making them a lot more money, so they milking franchise to death. Catherine Full Body, Radiant Historia Perfect Chronology and Strange Journey Redux were only exceptions of very good ,,non Persona'' games developed after SMT IV, but those games were remakes or enchanted editions..@@renren47618
It's been in develpoment hell because CJ_Iwakura group worked on (in same time) with Grandia, Sakura Wars 1, and Persona 2 Eternal Punishment fan translations. All of them were finished not that long ago (2016 - Grandia, 2019 - Sakura Wars, 2022 - Persona 2 Eternal Punishement), and now is turn for Devil Summoner.@@nykita427
It’s so disappointing that SH2 failed. I was hooked right away and basically played it nonstop until end. The saddest part is that I won’t ever get more of it.
Yeah. Because game have much higher budget than SH2, better marketing, Hashino, Meguro, and it feels like Persona 5 reskin in fantasy setting. Such a lazy way for making 3rd pillar (Persona 5 clone in diffirent setting, wow what a ingenuity).
And without Shin Megami Tensei (SMT If) would be no Persona, and without Tokimeki Memorial would be be no Persona 3-5 ... show them respect.@@CrimsonBladezz
@@nr2676Cool And both are and always will be nothing economically speaking before literally any other franchise on Earth. SMT has neither the critical nor commercial chops to keep the lights on for Atlus. Who knew that making something that was unlike the profitable stuff didn't sell well. Personally I think the series died after SMT2. I'm just here for the nice music which 5 had loads of. Kaneko was an inspired artist but his ancient retired self is literally carrying SMT by itself at this point. That's not healthy for any franchise. The newblood is neither new nor understands what made the old games good. Or as is more likely know it won't sell so they seek something else.
Failed seems like too strong a word, but the game failed to live up to its full potential. I think all the criticisms in the video are on point, but I think the issue of DLC was one more point where Atlus chose short-term gains over long-term goodwill.
I had just beat the game on its anniversary (if you count the world wide release) and I loved it. It was a 8.5/10 for me, some issues but I’m glad I played it since the mixed reception is what made me curious about it as a product. It’s a shame it couldn’t become a third pillar because I would’ve loved to see more from it, I never cared for SMT or other Atlus RPGs outside of Persona (I only played 5, plan to play the previous titles now that the remasters exist) but honestly now I would want to play SMT 3 and V and any other RPGS by Atlus *because* of SH2. I do hope we’ll see something like it again in the future since I’m already tired of P5 being mainstream and it’s a shame to see this series and the characters we loved fade away
The problem ATLUS has right now is people that similarly came to ATLUS because of P5, but unlike you, only want more Persona. They're basically uninterested in any of the other franchises, so we ATLUS fans and ATLUS are now stuck at the mercy of the overwhelmingly huge P5 fanbase. It's very refreshing to meet someone who came to ATLUS through P5 but has since expressed interest in branching out. SH2 was a pretty good game, with the exception being the dungeon design, which was... tedious. I can't believe that ATLUS flubbed that aspect of the game, because had they got that right, I'm sure the game would still be heavily criticized, but at least it would have been more fun and a lot of the criticisms that ATLUS fans had would vanish, and it might have lured in more P5 fans. I definitely recommend you try to pick up SMTIV and SMTV, and SMT: Strange Journey Redux if you can. SMTIV and Etrian Odyssey IV were my introductions to ATLUS and SMTIV blew my mind. I am so tired of P5, P5 remake, P5 spinoffs, P5, P5, P5... People who are blaming SH2 for poor sales because it wasn't on the Switch are completely ignoring the fact that P5 wasn't on the Switch until not that long ago... the fact that it was for a very long time PS exclusive didn't seem to hurt sales, and SH2 being on the PS4, PS5, Xbox, and Windows should have made it accessible to most gamers. I'm genuinely concerned for ATLUS and how safe they have been playing things since SH2 wasn't the success that SEGA expected. It was successful by ATLUS former standards, but after P5, almost everything is going to be considered a flop because P5 fans are not general ATLUS fans.
@@vorpal22 I only have access to SMT 3 and 5 but I am really looking forward to trying them in the future and other Atlus RPGs (looking into what other games they made I can play). I took the chance of playing P5 when it was free for PS Plus users because I didn’t wanna risk buying a turn based game and not liking it since I’m iffy when it comes to that type of gameplay and I enjoyed P5 but it’s definitely overrated, and I rolled my eyes at the Tactica spin-off and Persona 5X gacha. SH2 was a more interesting experience for me in terms of gameplay (and the demons being demons work better than being Personas) and seeing what you can do in SMT3 and 5 has me excited to try them when I can
@@pennydolts4286 Persona 1 and 2 do the Persona aspect better than 3-5. Persona 3 was kind of a reboot of the series with the calendar system and social links. If you like the demons aspect better though then SMT is definitely the way to go, and Digital Devil Saga would be even better than that for you because the demons are actual characters themselves.
I think an easy shorthand on the games is simply to listen at their respective opening themes. One is clearly done by someone who understands the core work and what it tries to do, the other is just you standard pop stuff.
I was sad because I just got too bored to finish the game. Think i reached the final iron mask fight against that Yatagarasu guy and just sorta got bored with how tedious and plain combat felt compared to the mainline or Persona series. - having 6 skills instead of the traditional 8 isn't great - there's only 7 affinities which severely limits combat variety/skill setups (the exception being Ringo and Milady do regular Phys attacks while Arrow and Seizo do Gun attacks which is slightly neat) - not being able to summon your demons traditionally and instead having your character cast the spell just sucks visually, i'd prefer them Persona summoning them at that point :') - despite her personality being pretty likable, Ringo not being silent just makes the story more of a read along rather than getting you to focus somewhat - I DONT NEED A FUCKING CARTOON OWL TELLING ME TO RELAX EVERY TIME I HIT AN ENEMY - dungeon exploration gets boring really fast, especially the Soul Matrix and all the random encounter enemies just looking like phantom pyramid heads - i've never liked MP/SP being a cost for physical skills - WHY DO 90% OF THE DUNGEONS SHARE THE SAME BACKGROUND MUSIC?
Soul Hackers 2 failed to become a third pillar because it seemed Atlus was too scared or just didn't care to fully commit to it. I absolutely adored Ringo and her friends, the style of the game, and just how smooth it all ran, but it really did have a "budget" feel to it all. Shops are just menus, the fusing of demons was a little underwhelming, the hand-crafted dungeons had some bland moments, and it just felt like it didn't receive the same effort put in their other recent titles. The boss battles that randomly have party one-shots was also rather annoying so I ended up just overleveling before going into those dangerous encounter battles in the dungeon crawling section. The game had some neat stuff that was simply locked behind a fair bit of gameplay so I can't imagine how many people just stopped playing before getting further into the mechanics of the combat. I'm looking to giving it another fresh playthrough, but I can't help but feel sad in how much potential was squandered with it. Ringo was too good just for the game to be let down by its creators like this.
The gameplay is stupid (demons as guns), and the story is a step down from other Devil Summoner games. They should've never hired the TMS #FE Director for this.
I felt like the writing was interesting but the character which I liked were presented in the most bland way possible, I wanted more fleshed out interactions with the cast other than just Milday being snarky every response, Arrow being a bucket of drying cement, and Saizo... Actually I wanted more Saizo in general since his entire backstory kinda resolves itself and made me with I could have done more for Arrow since spoilers you wouldn't have been able to help Milady at all but Arrow could have had a branching path. Another problem is locking Figue's content behind NG+ that expanded her character. She needed that, like not NG+, base game. That was a trash decision. I understand it was to meet the 200 soul level requirement with your party but with dlc you can get that on the first playthrough. I got the true ending on my first run because it's easy, since you actually only have to reach the 5th floor with every member not clear with 200, and the choices about the moon and sun sigils don't matter at all Far as DLC I got the game free off gamepass and shelled out for dlc since I'm always in a time crunch and long games almost never get finished when I start them. The Lost Numbers dlc is the only one worth it, you get a good story with a nice temp party member. All other dlc was not worth buying but I did.
I'm not as excited as most others about persona tactica or whatever. Because to me. That just seems like the perfect missed opportunity for devil survivor.
They could handle a new Digital Devil Saga game like they handled the Devil Survivor games: same general gameplay ideas but different cast AND universe as a whole After all, the title “Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner” (a subtitle for an already original game title) leaves room for a whole lot of imagination
You would think the Soul Matrix would become more personalized as you go deeper to represent you understand that person more and more but it was just the same no matter what. Also, since its always night, it feels like time doesn't pass.
I bought this but haven't played it. I got it on the PS4 and I find myself sticking with handhelds. I should definitely peel off the plastic and give it a try.
No marketing as always, and low budget. Sega and Atlus need to understand we dont live in 90's when games budget was not that high, but now in we have 202x, there is absolutely no chance to sell well game with penaut budget, especially when sequel is from series who got new entry 25 years ago. Basically two generations of players lost. They should firstly remade first Devil Summoner game, then Soul Hackers 1, then Raidou games, and then develop a new game in series.
As someone who played TMS#FE, I saw a lot of its DNA in the dungeon gameplay and was there for it. I wanted them to take the ideas they came up with for a silly semi-crossover and bring them closer to mainline. And I think the changes from the patch speak to something I noticed while playing before it (I didn't replay after): they messed up some numbers on the back end. Maybe it was the encounter rate. Maybe it was the default movement speed. Maybe it was the intensity of the ambushes. Maybe it was the lack of mechanically significant dungeon gimmicks. Whatever it was, SH2 on the basic level didn't feel like TMS, in a bad way. Something made the encounters be annoying rather than engaging. And maybe the patch fixed it, but I don't know that because I finished the game just before that patch came out, and the game's launch state didn't leave me wishing to replay it. Between lack of visual variety, bland dungeon design and some subtle balancing issues, SH2 really did feel like a budget title when I could hold it up against TMS, the actual budget title, and find it wanting.
Atlus isnt the same anymore, just gotta replay the old games because they will never have the type of atmosphere/love it used to have. Just need that translation for the original devil summoner game, also p2, and persona revelations for psx so I can play with the better soundtrack
One feature I hope makes a comeback in other smt games (including purse owner) is the ability to fuse from the compendium. So incredibly handy to flush out the compendium and 100%ing it. Even if it was locked behind something such as an Igor social link reward or a new game+. I saw the added sprint ability as a way to shut up fans. I just remember a bunch of people bitching about it. So I figured they added it to shut people up and since there was a dedicated sprint they had to change the skill.
The way i’ve always seen it, Soul Hackers 2’s existence alone is the biggest reason that SMTV was not as good as it should have been. Instead of getting one excellent game, we got a good game that should have been better, and a mistake that shouldn’t have happened.
Honestly Soul Hackers 2 seems to embody the Simpsons clip of "I just think they're neat" when we know the Megaten Franchise is capable of so much more. There are some good aspects to this game that I feel are better handled than SMTV, namely the characters and story. But it does feel like it needed a bit of a bigger budget, more time in the oven and NONE of the Day 1 DLC bs that Atlus pulled. Hopefully Atlus learns their lesson from Soul Hackers 2, takes what worked from this game and apply it to a new SMT spin off and not dry out the well of mainline and Persona. But considering Persona 3 Reload is coming and we can clearly tell which project got the higher priority I may be preaching to people with tin ears but still. Who knows, maybe Soul Hackers 2 may pull a BioShock 2 and get a critical reevaluation in a few years and get upgraded to cult classic status or something?
I don't think we can blame the Day 1 DLC for SH2's sales (which weren't bad by ATLUS standards... it's just that P5 sold so well and had such general appeal that now anything ATLUS does looks bad compared to it)... ATLUS has been doing Day 1 DLC for ages now and while the fans have always grumbled about it (myself included), we're tolerated it because ATLUS games are good. I have no doubt that ATLUS won't change their ways and we're still going to see Day 1 or preorder DLC for a long time to come, although it would be nice if they just stopped and released full games. I'm fine with stupid DLC like Catherine outfits and Persona 5 outfits and what not being Day 1 DLC, but whole plot segments that actually come on the cartridge or disc and we have to pay to unlock are just ATLUS shooting themselves in the foot again, and probably part of the reason why the ATLUS community is incredibly toxic compared to that of other predominantly JRPG companies. I sincerely hope that you're right and SH2 gets some retouching... so many things about it were great, but that dungeon design was just so milquetoast that if they redesigned that, they could have a winner on their hands, and then hopefully we'd get a Soul Hackers 3. I don't see it happening, which is sad, because this is a franchise I would love to continue.
i wanted to play it but i haven't touched the first game, the dlc's felt like an insult and it was too expensive for a budget looking game, there's something about it that reminds me of Digimon Cyber Sleuth
The issue of Soul Hackers 2 is that it was never given the proper budget and attention it needed and deserved. From the beginning, it looked like a cheap af game. Compare the quality of SH2, to the quality of Metaphor. Its night and day. It needed more budget, more attention and better story, dungeons and gameplay improvements. Its a shame, because the characters are indeed great, and there was so much potential. It truly could've been the 3rd pillar. Atlus themselves decided to make a cheap mediocre game, while they could make a great one.
More than anything, it is clear that the Soul Hackers name was just slapped on to this game as a marketing stunt. It is pretty much just an in name only sequel with nothing that stood out about the original game being present. At best it should have been a new original Devil Summoner entry. And even besides all that, it is clear that this game completely missed what Cyberpunk even is and what made the original work. A lot of the elements present just feel really superficial. In the original, the weight of technology was ever present and the supernatural elements where made together with them. It was trying to think ahead even if it was doing so through a 90's lens. This one on the other hand just feels like a diet Persona thrown into a futuristic setting with them then forgetting that the setting exists. It doesn't feel like they are in some futuristic cyberpunk world, you could rip it out of the game and put it in a contemporary setting and you would hardly notice the difference. And as for the Sabbath system, I think the central problem with it is that it is just a one sided win more mechanic. There is no real risk to it or for playing badly, it is just something that rewards you for when you are already winning. The fact that enemies doesn't have anything similar just serves to make the combat more dull. One thing I have noticed with modern Atlus is that the current creative team that they have have absolutely zero idea of what mainline SMT and its spinoffs are really about and what makes them tick. At most they just try to mimic the superficial elements, but then completely forgot the actual building blocks. SH2 was not the only one as SMTV and Apoc both showed clear signs of this. Even Devil Survivor 2 showed signs of not really getting it. In general, they just seem to be creatively bankrupt and lacking in the ability of thematic cohesion.
A Devil Survivor 3 would be a dream come true for me... I feel like Persona 5 Tactica is what we're getting instead of Devil Survivor 3 because Persona 5 has basically ruined ATLUS and the influx of Persona 5 fans aren't interested in playing anything that doesn't have "Persona" on the label.
@@vorpal22 late comment but I agree. The company actually is scared to experiment to create more compelling characters not based on done and dusted entry. Definitely a shell of their former boldness. Baroque and Catherine were some of the most memorable quirky gaming experiences for me and while those were garbage to today's standards perhaps, but it was great they tried to develop and publish unique games nonetheless.
This honestly looks like the type of game that I would really like, but what made me put this on the back burner was the mid reception and the big thing is that it was I guess a more AA and budgeted production.
I think if any game were to become the third pillar id want it to be raidou,hes such a cool character and i think his games as action games have a lot of potential especially with modern hardware
I feel they were afraid and tried to play it safe. The game also has a persona dna in it but didn't fully comit to it. Ringo, Arrow, Milady, and Saizo though I dare say are some of the best characters in the franchise, maybe they should have saved them fir Persona 6. I have to agree. I hope this dowsn't stop them from bringing onl frinchise back. I want a Raidou Kuzunoha vs x 3
what i wan't to know is why did they strip the SMT from the tittles? i only played PS2 SMTs and maybe 1 or 2 from ps1, never touched an SMT from nintendo or whatsoever. I would have bought and played this game on release if i knew, i'll get it from gamepass now though
Boring combat, boring world design, and it felt lazy, I'm a diehard fan of raidou, smt, and soul hackers games and this game felt like such a rushed/failure/ cash grab, I wish Atlus would have taken their time instead of making a ps2 game with ps4 graphics, Raidou remakes or Raidou 3!!!!
I think Soul Hackers 2 suffered from an identity crisis. It wanted to modernize the feel of the original Soul Hackers while trying to appeal to Persona fans and mainline SMT fans simultaniously. It trying to please everybody, it pleased nobody. The day one DLC didn't help endear the game with fans either.
not mainline smt, mostly persona but yeah... it didn't get a lot of people playing
Tokyo Mirrage Sessions did it first tho
Yeah TMS wanted be for SMT and Fire Emblem fans, and instead of Majin Tensei (which was ,,real'' SMT x FE game), we got Persona 4,5 in idol setting.@@therealjaystone2344
@@therealjaystone2344you know what’s the crazy part, I genuinely think Tokyo Mirage Sessions has better pure gameplay than SH2
So I'm not the only one thinking it reeks of Persona vibes...
I love Persona, but when a non Persona game starts to try to feel like Persona, especially with how Segatlus tries to MILK P5, yah. It gets bad.
I hope their future titles won't try to be P5 all over again, but with different skins.
Sure, there was SMT5 that was more normal, but I hope it won't become an exception in what they release next (outside of remakes and remasters).
This issue is that they made Soul Hackers 2 and not Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers 2.
💯
Also worth mentioning ATLUS didn't develop Soul Hackers 2 for the Switch, which is the most prominent platform in Japan, and is best for niche dungeon RPGs like Soul Hackers 2. That was a very strange business decision that certainly hampered sales and reception.
I found that weird too. It doesn't look like it *wouldn't* work on the Switch (Especially considering SMT5 is Switch exclusive), tho idk the stuff behind-the-scenes, so *maybe* there could have been an issue with it on Switch? I wouldn't know.
Maybe they tried but it didn’t work too well on the switch so they will release it for the next nintendo console?
Agreed, I would have preferred full multi-plat, but even if it were Switch exclusive, I bet it would have sold much better than it did.
@@fishingmule3266yeah especially since smt5 in the Switch alone managed to sell a million copies. Heck the smt 3 nocturne remaster sold 600,000 copies.
SMT V is on Switch and it took 6 months to hit a million which is pathetic , P5R's ports did that in about half the time. So no it wouldn't have sold any better. It also didn't help that the p3-5 ports were coming out and guess which fans and atlus cared more about?
SH2 failed for the same reason SMT V and every other non P3/4/5 game fails or under-performs, Atlus only care about P3/4/5.
On the topic of dungeons, i’m very disappointed in how SH2 handled this aspect considering how varied and interesting SH1’s locations were. You literally go to a digital art museum and jump into paintings and they come with interesting gimmicks and puzzles. Here its just the same few dungeon designs with very basic layouts. They should’ve just made this game its own thing.
Yeah, dungeons and Vision Quest were best parts of original Soul Hackers. Dungeons were shorts, but each one had unique puzzle, and there were many of them. In SH2 is just Subway, Subaway, Subway and Soul Matrix which is like random generated Tartarus from Persona 3, or YHVH Universe from SMT IV Apocalypse. Music in SH1 was phenomenal, but in SH2 is generic asf. I also miss gothic cyberpunk atmosphere from SH1. Combat in SH2 is just One More variation from Persona 3-5, with Commander Skills from Strange Journey Redux.
The non-cyberspace dungeons in the first game are pretty boring though. I actually turned on the "hack" on the 3DS version to make the dungeons automatically mapped out, because they were so bland.
I don't get the appeal of Soul Hackers over Soul Hackers 2. I had bought SH ages ago and played maybe an hour of it and it didn't appeal to me at all, and finally ended up playing it in preparation for SH2.
I can say overwhelmingly that I didn't think the original Soul Hackers was a very good game... it ranks near the bottom of ATLUS games for me. It felt super weaksauce in story and characters and dungeon design. SH2 had problems, but was a much more refined game, IMO.
@@ltb1345 I don’t agree at all. You went though corporate buildings and skyscrapers, chilling facilities, underground labs, a *god damn* monkey testing facility. Sure the layouts could get tiring from time to time but at least you going through aesthetically different and interesting areas.
@@vorpal22 You are free to have your opinion, but that doesn’t change the fact that by calling this a sequel to Soul Hackers and then going out of their way to make it *not* that in everything but name is pretty disappointing for fans of the first game.
I remember when this game came out and everyone was saying that the reason it didn't sell was because they didn't market it. But that just, wasn't true. They went pretty all out with stuff like the announcement, and even getting ad space on that one fancy 3D billboard we've all seen videos of, which I can't imagine is cheap. I think the issue was more so in the fact that I'm not sure who they were marketing to. I think they were trying to get people who liked P5 into other branches of SMT, but I feel like Soul Hackers was the wrong decision to do that with, and by P5-ifying soul hackers, they made the fans of the original game feel alienated by the new style. I think the way they made it and advertised it just left it without much of an audience beyond the people who would buy just about anything attached to the SMT brand.
SH2 was announced after Persona 3-5 ports announcements = dead on arrival. Also SH2 don't looked like Devil Summoner game (a detective JRPG with ocult elements), which pissed of most of SMT fans. And Sega / Atlus should know most of Persona fans play only P3-P5, and just don't care about rest of games in franchise. Just like most of Sonic and Yakuza fans don't care about classic Sega IP's like Jet Set Radio, Panzer Dragoon, or Valkyria Chronicles. No brand building awereness Devil Summoner since 2008 (Raidou Kuzunoha versus King Abaddon). It's really hard to revive old franchise, especially without huge marketing, and being low budget AA title.
I thought it was mobile, they should've used less neon on the color palette
It's funny because SH2 kind of reminded me of Tokyo Mirage Sessions, a game that looked like it was trying to appeal to Persona fans instead of SMT, only for it to attract neither fans and flop. Then I looked up to find out that this has the same co-director and producer.
@@nr2676I mean you can't deny Yakuza having the Sega arcades didn't have ANY impact.
Also it's funny how you list Valkria Chronicles as classic when it's the newest out of those. Also You could argue the same thing about Valkria Chronicles, it did nothing for Skies of Arcadia's brand recognition.
Those were examples of franchises what most of Sonic / Yakuza fans don't care about it. And considered there is no news about Valkyria Chronicles 4, since 2018 i considered this franchise as a classic, because we don't know it is dead or not. Skies of Arcadia is ofcourse also classic Sega franchise, like Shinobi, Golden Axe, Streets of Rage, Sakura Wars, Virtua Fighter etc. @@Chelaxim
One of the things I worry about with modern Atlus is how into things the devs are. Who in the team is particularly into the occult? Who is particularly into cyberpunk? Who is into detective stories even if it is just a bit of a phase? SH2 going wrong was a shame cause it means people go see they should just make carbon copies of older games. But a team really into this neon anime cyberpunk could've made it work. Sadly most of the young staff are likely just hoping they can get onto the next Persona.
Team Maniax who does Mainline SMT seems like they don't really want to be working on SMT. That can be seen in the final product of Apocalypse and the lack of genuine inspiration in SMT V
Nah. I think Sega forcing them to change everything into Persona. Just look at Team Maniax games released after fusion with Sega (after SMT IV). More anime and easier.@@athorem
@@nr2676 If that's the narrative you want to spread, okay. But if you read the interviews for Apocalypse it reveals that a good portion of the SMT team was responsible for the more anime tone of the game because that's just the kind of game they wanted to make. Mostly the newer members IIRC
@athorem I smt v was oozing inspiration. They just didn't finish the damn thing.
@@athorem SMT V definitely had way more of an SMT tone than Apocalypse did. The problem with V was that they tried too hard to make it like Nocturne, ironically.
Ringo's swaying cake cheeks carried this game.
She's flat... in more ways than one.
Funny that this video came out a week after I grabbed the platinum trophy for this game.
For those wondering, no, it was not a fun platinum trophy to get
I got the platinum too. You can speed run the ng+ in like 10 hours. Not that difficult.
@oshunanat the issue was not about the difficulty. The issue comes with how boring it was. I got the true ending on my first run because i wanted a blind playthrough and going into NG+ was doing the exact same thing but with no grinding. What a borefest. At least Persona games are more interesting to me because I use NG+ to max out social links so I can experience new stuff
I platted it about a week after launch. I enjoyed it well enough. I may go back to it at some point.
@@Especis yeah, that's fair, but given how many issues it has, I figured only the most die hard would even bother so figure some enjoyment of the game.
Whatever it was that kept you playing is the insight I'm here for
This game felt like they developed cool characters, spent good money on voice actors and illustrations, then the gameplay department just said ROCK PAPER SCISSORS AND TUNNELS THATS IT.
SMTV's movement system made the hallway environmental design of this game painful.
I honestly hope that one day Ringo gets a game she deserves.
Lol you best bet for that might be a fangame xD
With the abysmal sales and critical reception? Never
Shes a female megaten Protag, at best she's getting a cameo like the SMT If... protag in persona 2
Lol.
its fine, she got to be one of the Beatles.
Hey we still have metaphor maybe that could be the third
We can only hope.
Hashino called Metaphor the third pillar in his interview
It will be the third
This makes me sad because I genuinely love the game, and it’s stuck with me since beating it. The art direction, the music, the characters, the entire vibe, I love it. Yes the dungeons were flat but I really enjoyed it regardless, and could see a sequel doing a lot to improve this aspect.
I agree with what you’re alluding to in that if it wasn’t called Soul Hackers 2 I think it could’ve performed better. Also a Switch release would’ve helped.
Totally agree with you. I was super psyched for this game, I loved it except for the repetitive dungeon revisiting and the rather uninspired dungeon design. The characters, graphics, music, and plot were all pretty fantastic.
I'm really hoping that Metaphor Re:Fantazio is a big hit, because it looks amazing, and it seems like Persona 5 fans have overwhelmed ATLUS fans and only want more Persona 5.P3RE is basically just a remake of P3 in the style of P5 to appeal to them, I think.
I'm getting progressively more and more disappointed in the stagnation that ATLUS has been forced into because of the success of Persona 5: this was the only game they made that wasn't "playing it safe" or expending little effort since SMTV and I'm rapidly losing interest in lieu of other JRPG companies.
@@vorpal22 That fantasy re:zero game is being done by Hashino who ruined persona when 4 came out so I have zero doubts it will fix anything
@@KesslerVTuber How did Hashino ruin Persona 4?
Honestly, the game kinda like it's a Switch game. The repetitive dungeon design, the saving anywhere anytime, the Soul Matrix, it all kinda feels like the game was meant to be played in smaller chunks during a work commute, where you wouldn't be able to notice those things or they wouldn't affect you as much because you're receiving it in a dozen twenty minute chunks rather than a single multi-hour chunk.
@@KesslerVTuberp4 is my favorite so that's awesome
I think Soul Hackers 2 became a test for several things. All adult cast, more simplistic gameplay, different story take and approach with providing the main cast very early in, and how popular the west takes to these differences. When you look at it from afar SH2 does basically everything the more vocal western fans state, it's just that it meshed together awkwardly as it seems to be all new territory for the team who made this. Sad it didn't end up as a happy cult hit accident like Catherine did
nah
Thanks to this we're probably never getting an adult cast anymore
People just want to creep on teenagers
At least Ringo lives
So far....
I don't think they clearly communicated that these are adult characters as opposed to teens in the marketing. If they wanted to communicate they are adults with adult problems, maybe dressing them like pop idols wasn't a great idea.
Adults don't have to be dressed boring though. I don't like to dress boring, I have to at work but not anywhere else.
That's a bad hot take. Dressing stylishly doesn't make them look like teens.
you sound miserable
@@aerrae5608probably why you can’t make friends.
@@engine_man Friends aren't those guys that meet you at the mandatory office lunch outing buddy.
I feel like you missed the major point of why it failed. It took the name of Soul Hackers, while looking like a Persona game in its entirely. You're not just one dude summoning demons going through dungeons, instead it's the Persona formula. But I agree with your closing statements, love me some Devil Survivor.
When P3 was released, it drew huge outcry from P1/2 fans, but P3 was able to last. So a departure from the previous game isn't necessarily the problem, it's more down to production value.
Yes I’m a fan of these games and didn’t even make the Devil summoner connection. I bought the game but didn’t even play. If it had devil summoner in the title I would have tried it.
It is one game that felt really soulless, and it's coming from game that have “Soul” in its title.
Even from battle transition, you can compare it with recent P3Reload trailer, how different that point alone, you can clearly feel which are crafted with passion, and which only there to tick the checklist.
Just no budget.
They hacked the soul out of soulhackers.
Yes!!! It literally felt empty. That's why the game didn't resonate with me at all. It was a "filler" so they had something to release
The 90s cyberpunk style would definitely still work, just look at cyberp2077 and bladerunner 2. Or they could've called it something else.
Yep. People want to keep avoiding part of the reason but at least OG fans would have showed up if they actually kept with the 90s cyberpunk style.
It did feel lacking with how they tried to connect with the first Soul Hackers with the Dark Summoners and Devil Summoners with their conflict being part of the setting but none of the characters from Spooky and the like except for Azazel.
Soul Hackers 2 launched in the US and Japan six months to the day after it was announced. While this was impressive and showed they learned from SMT V, it also meant the game wasn't tested properly and they didn't have enough feedback. Yes, they saved a lot of money, and it was a budget title, and it did make money, but it damaged their brand.
The original Devil Summoner still doesn't have an English patch, the Raidou games are inaccessible, and the 3DS is a dead system. If they were going with the Soul Hackers tag, I get it, but they should have gone with a subtitle instead of a number. Do the Raidou thing and call if Devil Summoner: Ringo Versus Iron Mask. The naming system they used just didn't make sense.
I agree it should have been the third pillar. I mean, Devil Summoner even had a TV show. This should be a cornerstone franchise. Instead, we're not getting another one for a long time now, and all I want is a remake of the original.
Cool that you used footage from the live action battle. My youngest is loves Super Sentai, and he thought it was awesome.
Edit: Oh, and Soul Hackers 2 needs a Switch port BADLY. I'd buy it immediately. Make it happen, Atlus!
Or just remake original Devil Summoner, thats all. Japan love Sega Saturn, and loved original Devil Summoner game.
@@nr2676 I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I'd still like a Digital Devil Saga 1&2 Remaster for PC and Switch first though.
Both Raidou titles are/were available through the PS3 PlayStation Store in English.
As for a Switch port for SH2, I agree but also I don't: SMT 5 (great game) had a lot of people complaining about how not cinematic it was, due to the strong limitations of the system. SH2 struggled in load times alone anywhere it wasn't directly installed onto an SSD. I can't imagine how terrible the experience would be for someone to try to play SH2 in handheld mode on the Switch -- remember that Switch games have to work while docked and not, and the Switch Lite exists.
Strongly agree with you that the name should have included Devil Summoner and followed the Raidou naming scheme.
@@Invariel I have both Raidou and Digital Devil Saga games on my PS3, but they're not accessible anymore to most people. At the remarkably slow rate that SMT games are released, I just think it would be logical if they would continue to make their old content available as broadly as possible. Sega does it with their Genesis collection in every generation. Right now, Atlus games are emulated everywhere, earning them zero dollars. Even if they could be played in a browser on their website while ads ran around them, they could at least make some money. It's just unfortunate and lazy.
As far as SH2 on Switch, they have the time to optimize the game now. Drop the frame rate to 30, streamline some of the features, and put it out. Tears of the Kingdom is locked at 30 fps, and it's still selling. The Switch even got Nier Automata earlier this year, and that's considered the definitive way to play the game now. It's not that they can't, but that they won't.
I have slowly been combing through soul hackers 2 and there is something there that makes me come back. The party is interesting and I am constantly curious about the setting. Its brimming with potential and makes my little fanfiction and speculation brain go brrr.
But man I feel the lack of dungeon variety. Im at one of the last dungeons now with the whole undersea aesthetic and I love this dungeon, it was the first to really grab me. If just one of the underground lines thats used could be switched out for another location. Maybe a overgrown abandoned park for example.
Heck even the soul matrix could have slight changes aesthetically depending on whos matrix you are in with some sort of character color coding or maybe puzzle types exclusive to one particular character. As it i snow its to easy to forget whos amtrix i am currently working through.
IMHO, this is the review of it right here. There's something special with the cast, and I love the aesthetic, but clearly they didn't have time/budget to do it justice.
That's a WILD thing to find in the description
I 100%'ed the game after the sprint update and don't believe I would have without it. While the ability to sprint allows you to outrun all the enemies, making them much less of a threat, it gives you a more agency over how much grinding you want to do. Also I can't imagine completing all of the Soul Matrix at the default speed where, even with the sprint, it was an absolute slog navigating the maze-like corridors and the frustrating portals that drop you in random spots on the map. The sprint update was absolutely necessary, and while it may have shifted the game design away from a traditional grindy dungeon crawler, it helped me reach the end of the game.
adding a sprint option, even if necessary showed lack of talent, vision or care. changing movement can break design immensly. Especially level design. It didnt here, but the fact this wasnt thought of before launch (hell even designing and developing the game)is absolutely crazy.
"atlus doesn't do adults"
Persona 2?
Technically Persona 5 Strikers?
No SMT examples???
Majin Tensei 2: Spiral Nemesis
SMT Devil Summoner (1995)
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment
Digital Devil Saga 1&2
SMT Strange Journey
The absolute warcrime they did in soul hackers 2 was make Luster candy SINGLE target
Like in Persona 3-5 (Heat Riser) :D
@@nr2676 Yeah but at least that has a different name so the effect being different isn't the rug being pulled out from under you.
Tbh, I am fine with that, AoE Luster Candy was broken, I'm sorry
I'm starting to doubt they even wanted Soul Hackers to be a third pillar considering the scope of this game. Is there any actual proof that they were specifically talking about Soul Hackers as the third pillar franchise?
I know Hashino specifically said Metaphor was the third pillar in the interview for that game.
Today all game studio ms are aspired to create a lasting series because this helps retain fanbase. I am not sure if Atlus ever admitted wanting SH to be another studio pillar, but the ambition is there, just with insufficient commitment.
@@ultracapitalistutopia3550 Yeah. Now I'm wondering why they ever had the confidence that this was going to do well
I think their third pillar is going to be the Metaphor series. SH was an experiment to see if it was worth to revive Megaten's other series (Raidou, DDS, DeSu and etc.)
Metaphor looks way better then this trash
I remember them mentioning it during one of their financial reports with graphs and all.
The biggest issue with SH2 is that it called itself a part of the Devil Summoners line while just being a literal Persona clone. The thing is that Devil Summoners were closer to the mainline SMT than Persona and so those of us who wanted something either close to the mainline SMT series or the original Devil Summoner system of gameplay and we were denied it in favor of "look at our new totally not Persona game that is infact just Persona!"
Devil Summoner were always detective jrpg, SH2 ? .... It's just Persona 5 clone without Dating Sim.
I disagree that Soul Hackers 2 is a persona clone. Maybe only in the visuals? Has no high school. Has no dating elements. Has no calendar. Protagonist is an actual character with dialog instead of a silent protag. Don't you think these are important elements of Persona? If anything, they could've taken more inspiration from Persona 5, which has much more interesting dungeon design
Buff / debuff system from Persona games not mainline SMT games, characters are anime tropes like in persona games (for example there is mascot character, inteligent girl with 1M IQ, bro character etc. all those tropies are from highschool anime, but instead of teenegers we got adults with those anime tropes), similar interface to Persona 5, pseudo Social Links / bonds system, power of friendship (happy ending), no Demon Summoning in battle, Sabath is just All-Out-Attack from Persona games, with one twist - you can use that also in boss battles, dungeons reminds me random generated dungeons from Persona 4, no demons in battle like in previous Devil Summoner games, you play as a group of characters, colorfull artstyle pandering to Persona / Tokio MIrrage Sessions fans not to SMT / Devil Summoner fans.
The only thing is diffirent from modern Persona games is: adult cast (but with highschool anime tropes), setting, and MC is not silent (in Megaten series, Atlus did that in past only in Majin Tensei games).Rest is more like Persona 5 without Dating Sim + Commander Skills from Strange Journey Redux + Viktor, Ginko and COMP from Devil Summoner.
@@capngeeoff
@@nr2676Tbh, single target Luster Candy and Debilitate is better for balancing, and Sabbaths are more like SJ's demon coops, in fact, quite a bit of the balancing seems to be based on SJ and SJR
Specifically, Devil Summoner puts focus on demons and the occult in a more contemporary setting, where demons exist alongside humanity in the modern world. Unlike mainline where the apocalypse puts demons on top, in Devil Summoner they have to coexist. And that is a big thing Soul Hackers 2 forgets. By treating the demons as little more than Persona's, they end up feeling completely disconnected from the world around them. The two are supposed to be interwoven, not something just slapped together.
Erm, the assassin's step skill was changed because of the backlash toward Ringo's regular walking speed. That's why it was patched post release. Actually Atlus listening to the fans, which came a bit too late to save the game unfortunately.
I'm not sure if the game could be salvaged one year later. I had a good time with it overall, but I know a lot of people gave up on it. A bit similarly to the original Soul Hackers, people either loved the style, ambiance, music, Nemissa or hated the dungeon crawling, high encounter rate, no demon leveling, higher difficulty than other 2010+ MegaTen games.
But in hindsight it was an almost impossible task to rake the most people for this game. A cyberpunk anime game in 2022 couldn't be in the same category as a cyberpunk anime game from 1997. A video call was futuristic in 1997, but after Covid? Not so much. Same with the vaporwave aesthetics of the game being more ironic when used nowadays. They could've tried making a faithful sequel, but i feel like it would've missed the mark anyway because it would've probably only appeal to fans of the first one and would've feel forced somehow.
It was probably a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I think Atlus is in hard situation right now, kinda reminds me of Squaresoft post FF7. I see a lot of the same kind of criticism...
“What was popular then won’t be popular now” I completely disagree not everything has to be eternally progressive. Vaporwave/future funk, the constant 80’s DLC events in games and references in movies. Matrix cyber punk is still beloved today. I would also argue how often trying to modernize a franchise often has actually hurt rather than help.
I still love this little, desolated and short rushjob of a game. Ringo is the best, anything for more voiced protagonists and less mute self-inserts. I just like to imagine how great it'd be to have the budget of a brand new mainline Persona game with the gameplay of SMT V, a plot like Nocture or SMT IV and a cast as strong as the one from Soul Hackers 2. That would be Megaten Perfection.
It is - Digital Devil Saga (great story, great atmosphere, great characters, Nocturne gameplay, good dungeons, great music, memorable ending).
Love Ringo, also love DDS, would love to get more non-Persona games from Atlus.
ngl the third pillar was probably just metaphor the entire time and it got delayed so they had to prop something up 💀
Honestly that sounds the most plausible. They never mentioned Soul Hackers and third pillar in the same sentence, but they did with Metaphor
@@athoremOther way around actually
I fear that Persona 5 success is so big Atlus is scared of making something different.
Soul hackers has always been extremely niche, honestly I think they just need to bring back the Digital Devil Saga, at least that one was more known and also different.
Hell yeah, fellow DDS lover!!
As a person who is a fan of Tokyo Mirage Sessions, it's kinda sad seeing those same devs managed to make up flaws in their next game that wasn't apparent in their past game. To me, those devs KNOW how to make a game. However, I think the devs have a trouble with branding and style for those games.
At least with TMS, they can go all out with the game thanks to that Nintendo budget hiring Avex, so much production to the animations to sell the game being all about the characters being able to perform. That's the appeal of TMS to me, the ATLUS style that people expect from their higher budget games.
While Soul Hackers 2 doesn't seem to satisfy both the gameplay and spectacle crowd right away. Soul Hackers 2 has good combat, but it's not distinct enough combat in the looks and gameplay. It's standard ATLUS combat that doesn't seem to have anything cool other than the Sabbath system happening. The characters just either use their weapon or shoot. The designs are hit or miss to people that want an extremely modern anime style to character designs as well.
I think people just saw ATLUS not going all out on the game, there wasn't anything REALLY STRONG about the game other than the SMT elements that seem cool to SMT fans. But the game falls cheap in other places.
I didn't think there were other TMS fans out there. Nice to know I'm not alone.
I wonder if Metaphor woulda been the 4th pillar instead of the 3rd pillar if Soul Hackers 2 was successful or did they just decide to get to work on Metaphor because if Soul Hackers 2's failure
i almost finish my 1st playtrough of soul hackers 2 on hard, and it starts really good but it gives you everything in the first 2 hours and then nothing for the next 40 hours
Really wished they listened to the audiences request and made a new Devil Summoner game instead of this half-baked pseudo sequel of the most popular entry. The Kuzunoha clan in those games were such an interesting concept to me and it's just a waste to not explore them any further.
A Metacritic score of 74 isn't bad, though. I know people love to think that
The need to update SH2 to modern design philosophy was bad. It makes sense that the old 90's scifi was not old at the time, but this is no excuse. It's clear the people in charge of design didn't understand why Soul Hackers still resonated with people to this day.
where are we getting the idea that atlus wanted a “third pillar”? i think this was just a throwaway one off game they had little expectation from
I just think it's baffling they thought doing the bare minimum video game experience would net them a "Third Pillar". Just straight up crazy talk.
Oh they're not going to experiment anytime soon. It's persona only in the near future
Unfortunately you right.
@@nr2676 i wish they would
Probably. Their fault, they didn’t try hard enough.
@@Sonic171K Yeah, I wished they did 😅
I believe the sprint patch came from criticism that you lose such function in early NG+ (which you'd want to do to max out the soul matrix) until you unlock it again through Milady's soul matrix. The replacement skill was the afterthought. It is like Pokemon's Running Shoes in the original Gen 3, where once you get used to it there's no turning back - hence that item gets introduced at the start / a few minutes in in newer generations (vs older gen where you'd complete a task that asks you to go back and forth for a while before you get them).
There's also the clunkiness that you have to cast it every now and then once the effect fades pre-patch (which is more annoying than casting Estoma or Riberama as the latter two are more intentional in casting to get more / less encounters).
Did you just try to suggest that "Etrian Odyssey" has the same level of relevance as mainline SMT and Persona? I mean, *maybe* in its heyday...
Atlus wasn’t planning on added a sprint button until people started complaining about it
Both SMT and Persona blew up on their third entries (with Nocturne and Persona 3). Let's wait for Soul Hackers 3 to pop off
Technicaly it is thrid Devil Summoner game in series (Devil Summoner -> Soul Hackers -> Raidou spin-offs -> Soul Hackers 2) :D
I thought Etrian Odyssey would be pushed as the third pillar, next to SMT and Persona, the teaser for the next game was 5 years ago, wich for Atlus is not that much, so i wonder what's next for the franchise.
Soul Hackers feels like atlus taking it's older IPs and making it more like persona. At least style wise. Soul Hackers had strong characters but they felt like something out of a 90s OVA, now it's just the same shade of anime all over again and I think the series lost a bit of its uniqueness due to that. Also it's weird how despite it being a dungeon RPG, most of the dungeons look the same, not because of their design, its just that everything is so drenched in bright colourful neon that everything ends up looking the same.
Also atlus is becoming more and more shady with it's DLCs.
I think that it failed by not returning to the edgy old cyberpunk vibe, with actual hackers and anti corpo messaging that probably just didn’t sit well with atlus. It also needed to have more fun dungeons.
Probably one of the unintentionally comedic moments of SH2 was one of the characters talks about how in this future corporations will cynically sell you back your nostalgia for profits. In a game that's banking on your nostalgia for a past title that also has paid DLC featuring well known demons like Mara or Nemissa.
@@noisekeeperyou can feel the developers chuckling in their cinism
I can see what you’re saying about the sprint update. It seems like they didn’t really know what kinda game they wanted to make
My take is that this game was originally Tokyo Mirage Sessions 2. They pitched it to Nintendo, it was rejected and they repurposed it to as a SMT game.
Doesn't seem like they gave it the budget to "become the third Pillar" in the first place. its ok tho because Sega allocated that money to the most by the numbers generic hero shooter possible.
I agree, needed a bigger budget and more development time.
honestly i feel like SH2's biggest problem was that it tried to be "the third pillar" and came short, rather than trying to just be a good game. The game was fun, but it felt like it spent too much time on it's style-identity, rather than it's gameplay-identity (the battle system being much closer to a generic jrpg, rather than the press turn and one more of SMT and Persona)
they tried too hard to make a third pillar, making a very pretty pillar, but it doesn't matter how pretty a pillar is if the base is comprimised
I heard the gameplay was not very fun, plus the switch is my console of choice, so I ended up just ignoring SH2 entirely
I'm trying not to buy any more games for a good while, so even if it had made its way to Switch I probably wouldn't have bought it, but it *would* at least end up on my eShop wishlist cause it at least looks interesting without any other context.
@@Cuprite1024it wouldn’t be worth $60 anyways
The issue with Atlus is they are too afraid of failure to step out and do a new IP. And entirely new project, not something indicative of previous works worlds or mythos. A brand new idea to really bring something fresh to the table. The issue with bringing something already established to the market is that those who played the previous iteration already have set expectations which are quite difficult to meet. Especially when their recollection of said world is most of the time more vivid and recent and (let's be honest correct) than the devs most of the time. Bias, constant movement between projects and many other things obscured their idea and if it isn't Persona 5 they really dont care enough... Because no matter what, people keep buying the same games over and over again....
Catherine, Trauma Center and Radiant Historia were great ,,experimential'' titles from Atlus.Problem is those games don't sale that good like Persona, or even mainline SMT.
@@nr2676 also licensed by altus but not created by their main dev team. Licensing and development are not the same thing
The state of modern Atlus is absolutely lethargic.
Eh, at least their other titles have been decent enough
Downhill after SMT IV is very visable.
Except for Persona that's true.
ReFantazio looks amazing and Persona 3 Reloaded it's one of my most hyped games for next year, Royal also heavily improved P5 with Maruki.
But meanwhile, the other IPs are really having heavy issues.
V is a great game but the story it's very bland and among other issues, IV:A has great gameplay but barely feels like Smt and the writting is terrible and SH2 was souless.
Persona is also getting worse after P4 (acquistion by Sega). Especially with story, one dimensional characters, and horrible pacing (caused by Calendar). But diffirence with Persona and other Atlus games is Persona making them a lot more money, so they milking franchise to death. Catherine Full Body, Radiant Historia Perfect Chronology and Strange Journey Redux were only exceptions of very good ,,non Persona'' games developed after SMT IV, but those games were remakes or enchanted editions..@@renren47618
If anyone is interested, there is an English fan translation of the original Saturn game in development, seems to be going well.
It has been in development for a long time with not many updates
IMO it's not neccesary anymore since there's the 3DS version.
@@olimac82 it's not necessary if you think it should only be playable on the 3ds.
@@olimac82 If you mean the original Devil Summoner that port is only for the PSP. Soul Hackers was on the 3DS.
It's been in develpoment hell because CJ_Iwakura group worked on (in same time) with Grandia, Sakura Wars 1, and Persona 2 Eternal Punishment fan translations. All of them were finished not that long ago (2016 - Grandia, 2019 - Sakura Wars, 2022 - Persona 2 Eternal Punishement), and now is turn for Devil Summoner.@@nykita427
That 3rd pillar is gonna be Metaphor Re:Fantazio babyyyyy
It’s so disappointing that SH2 failed. I was hooked right away and basically played it nonstop until end. The saddest part is that I won’t ever get more of it.
Im really thinking that Metaphor: Re Fantazio is going to be that Third Pillar
Yeah. Because game have much higher budget than SH2, better marketing, Hashino, Meguro, and it feels like Persona 5 reskin in fantasy setting. Such a lazy way for making 3rd pillar (Persona 5 clone in diffirent setting, wow what a ingenuity).
@@nr2676People are going to eat it up anyway
@@nr2676lol persona put atlus on the map show some damn respect
And without Shin Megami Tensei (SMT If) would be no Persona, and without Tokimeki Memorial would be be no Persona 3-5 ... show them respect.@@CrimsonBladezz
@@nr2676Cool
And both are and always will be nothing economically speaking before literally any other franchise on Earth. SMT has neither the critical nor commercial chops to keep the lights on for Atlus. Who knew that making something that was unlike the profitable stuff didn't sell well.
Personally I think the series died after SMT2. I'm just here for the nice music which 5 had loads of. Kaneko was an inspired artist but his ancient retired self is literally carrying SMT by itself at this point. That's not healthy for any franchise. The newblood is neither new nor understands what made the old games good. Or as is more likely know it won't sell so they seek something else.
Failed seems like too strong a word, but the game failed to live up to its full potential. I think all the criticisms in the video are on point, but I think the issue of DLC was one more point where Atlus chose short-term gains over long-term goodwill.
This is so sad to me because I LOVED the combat and characters so much
I had just beat the game on its anniversary (if you count the world wide release) and I loved it. It was a 8.5/10 for me, some issues but I’m glad I played it since the mixed reception is what made me curious about it as a product. It’s a shame it couldn’t become a third pillar because I would’ve loved to see more from it, I never cared for SMT or other Atlus RPGs outside of Persona (I only played 5, plan to play the previous titles now that the remasters exist) but honestly now I would want to play SMT 3 and V and any other RPGS by Atlus *because* of SH2. I do hope we’ll see something like it again in the future since I’m already tired of P5 being mainstream and it’s a shame to see this series and the characters we loved fade away
If you know how to play them don't miss out on 4 and 4Apocalypse.
The setting of those games are at the peak of SMT.
The problem ATLUS has right now is people that similarly came to ATLUS because of P5, but unlike you, only want more Persona. They're basically uninterested in any of the other franchises, so we ATLUS fans and ATLUS are now stuck at the mercy of the overwhelmingly huge P5 fanbase.
It's very refreshing to meet someone who came to ATLUS through P5 but has since expressed interest in branching out. SH2 was a pretty good game, with the exception being the dungeon design, which was... tedious. I can't believe that ATLUS flubbed that aspect of the game, because had they got that right, I'm sure the game would still be heavily criticized, but at least it would have been more fun and a lot of the criticisms that ATLUS fans had would vanish, and it might have lured in more P5 fans.
I definitely recommend you try to pick up SMTIV and SMTV, and SMT: Strange Journey Redux if you can. SMTIV and Etrian Odyssey IV were my introductions to ATLUS and SMTIV blew my mind.
I am so tired of P5, P5 remake, P5 spinoffs, P5, P5, P5... People who are blaming SH2 for poor sales because it wasn't on the Switch are completely ignoring the fact that P5 wasn't on the Switch until not that long ago... the fact that it was for a very long time PS exclusive didn't seem to hurt sales, and SH2 being on the PS4, PS5, Xbox, and Windows should have made it accessible to most gamers.
I'm genuinely concerned for ATLUS and how safe they have been playing things since SH2 wasn't the success that SEGA expected. It was successful by ATLUS former standards, but after P5, almost everything is going to be considered a flop because P5 fans are not general ATLUS fans.
@@vorpal22 I only have access to SMT 3 and 5 but I am really looking forward to trying them in the future and other Atlus RPGs (looking into what other games they made I can play). I took the chance of playing P5 when it was free for PS Plus users because I didn’t wanna risk buying a turn based game and not liking it since I’m iffy when it comes to that type of gameplay and I enjoyed P5 but it’s definitely overrated, and I rolled my eyes at the Tactica spin-off and Persona 5X gacha. SH2 was a more interesting experience for me in terms of gameplay (and the demons being demons work better than being Personas) and seeing what you can do in SMT3 and 5 has me excited to try them when I can
@@pennydolts4286
Persona 1 and 2 do the Persona aspect better than 3-5. Persona 3 was kind of a reboot of the series with the calendar system and social links.
If you like the demons aspect better though then SMT is definitely the way to go, and Digital Devil Saga would be even better than that for you because the demons are actual characters themselves.
I think an easy shorthand on the games is simply to listen at their respective opening themes. One is clearly done by someone who understands the core work and what it tries to do, the other is just you standard pop stuff.
I was sad because I just got too bored to finish the game. Think i reached the final iron mask fight against that Yatagarasu guy and just sorta got bored with how tedious and plain combat felt compared to the mainline or Persona series.
- having 6 skills instead of the traditional 8 isn't great
- there's only 7 affinities which severely limits combat variety/skill setups (the exception being Ringo and Milady do regular Phys attacks while Arrow and Seizo do Gun attacks which is slightly neat)
- not being able to summon your demons traditionally and instead having your character cast the spell just sucks visually, i'd prefer them Persona summoning them at that point :')
- despite her personality being pretty likable, Ringo not being silent just makes the story more of a read along rather than getting you to focus somewhat
- I DONT NEED A FUCKING CARTOON OWL TELLING ME TO RELAX EVERY TIME I HIT AN ENEMY
- dungeon exploration gets boring really fast, especially the Soul Matrix and all the random encounter enemies just looking like phantom pyramid heads
- i've never liked MP/SP being a cost for physical skills
- WHY DO 90% OF THE DUNGEONS SHARE THE SAME BACKGROUND MUSIC?
Soul Hackers 2 failed to become a third pillar because it seemed Atlus was too scared or just didn't care to fully commit to it.
I absolutely adored Ringo and her friends, the style of the game, and just how smooth it all ran, but it really did have a "budget" feel to it all. Shops are just menus, the fusing of demons was a little underwhelming, the hand-crafted dungeons had some bland moments, and it just felt like it didn't receive the same effort put in their other recent titles. The boss battles that randomly have party one-shots was also rather annoying so I ended up just overleveling before going into those dangerous encounter battles in the dungeon crawling section. The game had some neat stuff that was simply locked behind a fair bit of gameplay so I can't imagine how many people just stopped playing before getting further into the mechanics of the combat.
I'm looking to giving it another fresh playthrough, but I can't help but feel sad in how much potential was squandered with it. Ringo was too good just for the game to be let down by its creators like this.
Yeah, Atlus didn't commit to this one like they should have.
The gameplay is stupid (demons as guns), and the story is a step down from other Devil Summoner games. They should've never hired the TMS #FE Director for this.
I felt like the writing was interesting but the character which I liked were presented in the most bland way possible, I wanted more fleshed out interactions with the cast other than just Milday being snarky every response, Arrow being a bucket of drying cement, and Saizo... Actually I wanted more Saizo in general since his entire backstory kinda resolves itself and made me with I could have done more for Arrow since spoilers you wouldn't have been able to help Milady at all but Arrow could have had a branching path.
Another problem is locking Figue's content behind NG+ that expanded her character. She needed that, like not NG+, base game. That was a trash decision. I understand it was to meet the 200 soul level requirement with your party but with dlc you can get that on the first playthrough. I got the true ending on my first run because it's easy, since you actually only have to reach the 5th floor with every member not clear with 200, and the choices about the moon and sun sigils don't matter at all
Far as DLC I got the game free off gamepass and shelled out for dlc since I'm always in a time crunch and long games almost never get finished when I start them. The Lost Numbers dlc is the only one worth it, you get a good story with a nice temp party member. All other dlc was not worth buying but I did.
I'm not as excited as most others about persona tactica or whatever. Because to me. That just seems like the perfect missed opportunity for devil survivor.
Personally I'm just sick of P5 in general at this point
@yoso378 same. But I just figured at this point that's just a gimme. Nobody but atlus themselves are asking for more persona 5 milk.
All Persona spin off games are missed opportunity for something interesting.
Hopefully tactica is the last p5 spin off
@therealjaystone2344 not likely sadly. Just don't go holding your breath.
I wish they made a 3rd Digital Devil Saga(new cast but same combat/skill system).
They could handle a new Digital Devil Saga game like they handled the Devil Survivor games: same general gameplay ideas but different cast AND universe as a whole
After all, the title “Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner” (a subtitle for an already original game title) leaves room for a whole lot of imagination
You would think the Soul Matrix would become more personalized as you go deeper to represent you understand that person more and more but it was just the same no matter what. Also, since its always night, it feels like time doesn't pass.
I bought this but haven't played it. I got it on the PS4 and I find myself sticking with handhelds. I should definitely peel off the plastic and give it a try.
No marketing as always, and low budget. Sega and Atlus need to understand we dont live in 90's when games budget was not that high, but now in we have 202x, there is absolutely no chance to sell well game with penaut budget, especially when sequel is from series who got new entry 25 years ago. Basically two generations of players lost. They should firstly remade first Devil Summoner game, then Soul Hackers 1, then Raidou games, and then develop a new game in series.
Personally I really enjoyed Soul Hackers 2, fun and straightforward. Though not on the same level as P5 and SMTV.
As someone who played TMS#FE, I saw a lot of its DNA in the dungeon gameplay and was there for it. I wanted them to take the ideas they came up with for a silly semi-crossover and bring them closer to mainline. And I think the changes from the patch speak to something I noticed while playing before it (I didn't replay after): they messed up some numbers on the back end.
Maybe it was the encounter rate. Maybe it was the default movement speed. Maybe it was the intensity of the ambushes. Maybe it was the lack of mechanically significant dungeon gimmicks. Whatever it was, SH2 on the basic level didn't feel like TMS, in a bad way. Something made the encounters be annoying rather than engaging.
And maybe the patch fixed it, but I don't know that because I finished the game just before that patch came out, and the game's launch state didn't leave me wishing to replay it.
Between lack of visual variety, bland dungeon design and some subtle balancing issues, SH2 really did feel like a budget title when I could hold it up against TMS, the actual budget title, and find it wanting.
I liked how this game looks and his characters, that was enough for me to ignore the design problems it had, but I know that not everyone can do that.
3:34 Thanks, I couldn't verbalize why I hated their designs until you mentioned v-tubers. It's why I'll probably never play FE Engage.
I still don't understand why this had to be called Soul Hackers 2
Atlus isnt the same anymore, just gotta replay the old games because they will never have the type of atmosphere/love it used to have. Just need that translation for the original devil summoner game, also p2, and persona revelations for psx so I can play with the better soundtrack
One feature I hope makes a comeback in other smt games (including purse owner) is the ability to fuse from the compendium. So incredibly handy to flush out the compendium and 100%ing it. Even if it was locked behind something such as an Igor social link reward or a new game+.
I saw the added sprint ability as a way to shut up fans. I just remember a bunch of people bitching about it. So I figured they added it to shut people up and since there was a dedicated sprint they had to change the skill.
Devil Survivor 3! Devil Survivor 3! Devil Survivor 3! Devil Survivor 3! Devil Survivor 3!
Hey what's the music playing in the background? It's super chill
its the soul hackers 2 hideout ost
@@critical_6164 thanks
Well it seems this didn't scare Atlus from making new games, as Metaphor ReFantazio serms like it's gonna be the third pillar instead of Soul Hackers
The way i’ve always seen it, Soul Hackers 2’s existence alone is the biggest reason that SMTV was not as good as it should have been. Instead of getting one excellent game, we got a good game that should have been better, and a mistake that shouldn’t have happened.
Unfortunate bc Ringo is such a good character and i enjoyed the game but obviously could be improved a lot
Honestly Soul Hackers 2 seems to embody the Simpsons clip of "I just think they're neat" when we know the Megaten Franchise is capable of so much more. There are some good aspects to this game that I feel are better handled than SMTV, namely the characters and story. But it does feel like it needed a bit of a bigger budget, more time in the oven and NONE of the Day 1 DLC bs that Atlus pulled. Hopefully Atlus learns their lesson from Soul Hackers 2, takes what worked from this game and apply it to a new SMT spin off and not dry out the well of mainline and Persona. But considering Persona 3 Reload is coming and we can clearly tell which project got the higher priority I may be preaching to people with tin ears but still. Who knows, maybe Soul Hackers 2 may pull a BioShock 2 and get a critical reevaluation in a few years and get upgraded to cult classic status or something?
I don't think we can blame the Day 1 DLC for SH2's sales (which weren't bad by ATLUS standards... it's just that P5 sold so well and had such general appeal that now anything ATLUS does looks bad compared to it)... ATLUS has been doing Day 1 DLC for ages now and while the fans have always grumbled about it (myself included), we're tolerated it because ATLUS games are good.
I have no doubt that ATLUS won't change their ways and we're still going to see Day 1 or preorder DLC for a long time to come, although it would be nice if they just stopped and released full games. I'm fine with stupid DLC like Catherine outfits and Persona 5 outfits and what not being Day 1 DLC, but whole plot segments that actually come on the cartridge or disc and we have to pay to unlock are just ATLUS shooting themselves in the foot again, and probably part of the reason why the ATLUS community is incredibly toxic compared to that of other predominantly JRPG companies.
I sincerely hope that you're right and SH2 gets some retouching... so many things about it were great, but that dungeon design was just so milquetoast that if they redesigned that, they could have a winner on their hands, and then hopefully we'd get a Soul Hackers 3. I don't see it happening, which is sad, because this is a franchise I would love to continue.
Had to pause the video 4 mins in to say I’m loving the commentary so far, so glad I saved this to watch later
i wanted to play it but i haven't touched the first game, the dlc's felt like an insult and it was too expensive for a budget looking game, there's something about it that reminds me of Digimon Cyber Sleuth
Well i heard Cyber sleuth have same artist and digital devil saga dev
Because its not a real soul hackers game. Like i told you before it released
The issue of Soul Hackers 2 is that it was never given the proper budget and attention it needed and deserved. From the beginning, it looked like a cheap af game. Compare the quality of SH2, to the quality of Metaphor. Its night and day. It needed more budget, more attention and better story, dungeons and gameplay improvements. Its a shame, because the characters are indeed great, and there was so much potential. It truly could've been the 3rd pillar. Atlus themselves decided to make a cheap mediocre game, while they could make a great one.
More than anything, it is clear that the Soul Hackers name was just slapped on to this game as a marketing stunt. It is pretty much just an in name only sequel with nothing that stood out about the original game being present. At best it should have been a new original Devil Summoner entry.
And even besides all that, it is clear that this game completely missed what Cyberpunk even is and what made the original work. A lot of the elements present just feel really superficial. In the original, the weight of technology was ever present and the supernatural elements where made together with them. It was trying to think ahead even if it was doing so through a 90's lens. This one on the other hand just feels like a diet Persona thrown into a futuristic setting with them then forgetting that the setting exists. It doesn't feel like they are in some futuristic cyberpunk world, you could rip it out of the game and put it in a contemporary setting and you would hardly notice the difference.
And as for the Sabbath system, I think the central problem with it is that it is just a one sided win more mechanic. There is no real risk to it or for playing badly, it is just something that rewards you for when you are already winning. The fact that enemies doesn't have anything similar just serves to make the combat more dull.
One thing I have noticed with modern Atlus is that the current creative team that they have have absolutely zero idea of what mainline SMT and its spinoffs are really about and what makes them tick. At most they just try to mimic the superficial elements, but then completely forgot the actual building blocks. SH2 was not the only one as SMTV and Apoc both showed clear signs of this. Even Devil Survivor 2 showed signs of not really getting it.
In general, they just seem to be creatively bankrupt and lacking in the ability of thematic cohesion.
I too want a devil survivor three....... OR another strange journey ! I personally feel like strange journey is more smt then smt.
A Devil Survivor 3 would be a dream come true for me... I feel like Persona 5 Tactica is what we're getting instead of Devil Survivor 3 because Persona 5 has basically ruined ATLUS and the influx of Persona 5 fans aren't interested in playing anything that doesn't have "Persona" on the label.
@@vorpal22 late comment but I agree. The company actually is scared to experiment to create more compelling characters not based on done and dusted entry. Definitely a shell of their former boldness. Baroque and Catherine were some of the most memorable quirky gaming experiences for me and while those were garbage to today's standards perhaps, but it was great they tried to develop and publish unique games nonetheless.
when you try to please everybody, you please nobody
Somewhere far away I heard Spencer laugh when I read this video title.
This honestly looks like the type of game that I would really like, but what made me put this on the back burner was the mid reception and the big thing is that it was I guess a more AA and budgeted production.
I think if any game were to become the third pillar id want it to be raidou,hes such a cool character and i think his games as action games have a lot of potential especially with modern hardware
It should have been Devil Survivor but they just stopped making those games even though the popularity kept increasing.
We need Soul Hackers 2 for Switch, it's gonna be banger!
I feel they were afraid and tried to play it safe.
The game also has a persona dna in it but didn't fully comit to it.
Ringo, Arrow, Milady, and Saizo though I dare say are some of the best characters in the franchise, maybe they should have saved them fir Persona 6.
I have to agree. I hope this dowsn't stop them from bringing onl frinchise back. I want a Raidou Kuzunoha vs x 3
what i wan't to know is why did they strip the SMT from the tittles? i only played PS2 SMTs and maybe 1 or 2 from ps1, never touched an SMT from nintendo or whatsoever. I would have bought and played this game on release if i knew, i'll get it from gamepass now though
Boring combat, boring world design, and it felt lazy, I'm a diehard fan of raidou, smt, and soul hackers games and this game felt like such a rushed/failure/ cash grab, I wish Atlus would have taken their time instead of making a ps2 game with ps4 graphics, Raidou remakes or Raidou 3!!!!
The combat was at least an improvement from SJ/SJR, and that's the problem - it's an upgrade of SJ/SJR combat instead of SH combat