Our Take on the Ethics of Being a Paddle Reviewer
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- Опубліковано 22 чер 2024
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MKBHD interview 1: ( • I asked MrBeast to roa... )
MKBHD Interview 2: ( • We asked MKBHD about h... )
MKBHD on bad reviews: ( • Do Bad Reviews Kill Co... )
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
4:16 - Gen 3 Joola Grit
9:00 - Will’s Texas trip
14:14 - The PKOLL Paddle
15:39 - Chorus Shapeshifter
18:00 - Vatic Pro Oni
20:09 - Franklins new paddle
22:26 - PPA update
25:33 - The Ethics of Reviewing Paddles and Our Stances
38:26 - How Do We Chose What Paddles to Review?tt
52:09 - Have Companies Ever Offered Us Money?
58:12 - Are We Ever Worried About Giving a Bad Review?
1:03:00 - Chris’ Personal Ethics And Views
1:12:10 - When Is It Considered Sandbagging?
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Chris's integrity with his reviews are 100% the reason for his success. It's the reason we compare his channel to MKBHD.
If I get a good review from PB Studio? It makes my buying decisions WAYYY easier. So I get why companies would want to try and pay him. But major props to you chris for keeping it real the whole time.
Solid content as always-Thanks!!
Great Pod! Great insights into your process
like we don't see the Willinator in the background lol why you doing us like that. 😭
Really appreciate your honesty and reasoning for the paddles you choose to review or skip!
Only voice in Pickleball reviews I listen to. Don't ever lose that trust, Chris.
You should check out John Kew.
John Kew and Braydon are also solid resources.
I’m sure he cares a lot about you man 😂
Id listen to a monkey’s opinion of a paddle before Chris’
@@NathanBexk And yet you're on this video spamming your nonsense contradicting yourself.
Chris/Will thanks for keeping it 100. Great content as always!
As always, great stuff guys. Say, what brand are your hats? Looks cool!
Melin!
You guys are a very entertaining asset for the sport! I appreciate your quandary regards potential for conflict of issue with industry involvement, but I think you keep it clean and open -- no big payoffs or endorsement deals. I bought the Thrive Azul after seeing your foursome gathering. Further info from John Kew convinced me. I've not been disappointed and was happy to support your efforts and a conscientious brand. (This is not my main or even primary paddle -- it joins 3 Selkirk Power Air and 2 Luxx, plus Gen 1 Joola Anna Scorpeus and Perseus, as well as Diadem 18K Power plus and Warrior Edge.) If anything, your merry band of paddle infotainment promoters are very on the mark as far as I am concerned, providing keen insight to quality products to improve pickleball playing. Chris, Will, John and Braydon -- my favorite sources for the industry, sport and innovation!
@MKBHD x Pickleball Studio collab 👀
This conversation makes me love your channel even more. Definitely the greatest Pickleball paddle reviewer out there 🙌🏾
Your integrity is so admirable and I am confident it will be the foundational reason for your long term success. There are not many people who would be making the choices you are currently making. It is not an understatement to say trustworthiness is your brand - there is no higher compliment!
Kitchen Discuss: friend of mine and I played women's dubs in a local tournament at 3.5 & earned gold. Most medal-round teams played at or around 4.0 level. We'd never played tournament. We don't get to play 4.0+ players in rec play. We had no idea where we fell in line. We played 3.5 to figure out where our "rating" was. Fair/Unfair?
no such thing as "fair" and "unfair". It's all subjective nonsense mostly driven from envy. The act of deeming something fair is in fact an unfair act.
The Ed Ju mixup was hilarious! I took everything in me not to burst out in laughter 😂
Last two paddles I’ve purchased have been based on your reviews. Your reviews are very honest and provide the technical qualities I need to make my decision. I watched others do their shtick, prefer your style.
What makes the viva a gen three? Is that just their third version of it or does it have similarities to the gearbox and the Joolas
Same thing as Joola. Their third gen.
Any more comments on the new Hudef Viva Pro Gen 3? Like, is it really head heavy?
Do you guys feel like generally the 14mm gen 3 paddles are easier to control because there is less foam in the core therefore creating less trampoline squish effect? I’m looking to get the oni but I’m undecided between 14-16MM
Great pod, I'm asking for a review of the hooks you use on your wall to display the paddles in the background, we have accumulated a number of paddles over the last couple years, might want to hang some of them in my office.
have not watched the whole pod, and maybe you address it later, but I am hoping for a review of the Hudef Viva Pro Gen 3. The Gen 2 is my gamer, along with the B and B Filth, interested in what you guys have to say about the kevlar edition.
Def Interested to see a review on the ALW paddle
And the TKO-C
I played this morning with the ALW 12.7. What a great paddle. It has a great soft feel and all the power and pop you would ever need. Not a huge fan of the short handle but I had my little finger off the bottom of the handle and that made it seem better
You never will. PPA will never test her paddle. It was supposed to be tested last year because a player challenged it. Nope. PPA wouldn't test it or wouldn't publicize the test. I've heard from many, that her paddle is illegal.
In regards to sandbagging…best way I’ve seen it done is the following…
3.5 is 3.25-3.74
4.0 is 3.75-4.24
4.5 is 4.25-4.74
5.0 is 4.75&up.
Interesting podcast. Can you possibly review the Bread & Butter Shogun, Honolulu Pickleball Co J7k & J7K Pro, as well as the Vatic Pro Oni paddles?
Thank you for all of the awesome videos!
Vatic Oni should be done on launch day. Don’t have j7ks or Shogun yet.
@@PickleballStudio awesome! You’re one of the few UA-cam influencers that I can trust! I can’t wait to see the reviews!
Hi! Ok. Genuine question. I THOUGHT the division ratings were for that number rating and below. Like for example a 4.5 bracket is for 4.0-4.5. A 5.0 bracket is for 4.5-5.0. Etc… Is it common knowledge that the brackets are for half a point ABOVE the bracket rating?
Yes it's above. A 4.5 bracket would be recommended for 4.5 and 4.99 players.
What time tomorrow is the Oni review coming out haha. I want to watch it right when it comes out before I buy it 😂
I enjoyed the podcast. I enjoyed the topics and information. I made it to the kitchen. I think that if you are a 4.85, then you should be allowed to play in a 4.5 tournament. DUPR is taking the average and is not that reliable, but is the best thing that is out there. Thank you, Chris and Will. You both have a wonderful week.
Can’t wait to hear about Oni and Alshon paddle
Question, hopefully I can get an answer. If I received a Joola Gen 3, and the grits are different on both sides (very different) is that a warranty situation? This is my first time buying a Joola and they don’t answer. Thank you in advance for anyone who answers.
We appreciate you Chris. I don’t even take the opinions of ANY other reviewers anymore. It’s too obvious they’re being paid 😂
On the topic of sandbagging, is there an actual defined range of DUPR ratings intended for each bracket (3.5, 4.0, 4.5, etc)? Without clearer definition and 'enforcement' by tourney officials, I see the struggle for a 4.31 not wanting to play in a 4.5 bracket that's full of 4.9+ players.
I just played in my first tourney where I thought this was going to be better aligned as it was stated to be "4.0-4.5", but when a 5.02 player stepped in (that Chris Olson also lost to in the MN PPA 5.0 bracket) it clearly wasn't solved. Add to the rating mismatch that he was wielding a brand new Tyson Gen 3 Joola, it got out of hand real quick.
When I got my 6.0 DBD a few months ago, the grit was basically nonexistent. It was completely smooth. I was a little nervous to purchase a joola gen 3 but it has an absolutely crazy amount of grit. When I hit roll volleys the ball literally kicks off of the court and almost rolls, making it impossible to hit. I’m glad I got a paddle with a ton of grit, but consistency definetely could improve in the big picture of production
@partezcroeso3713 scorpeus 14mm
When’s that VP Oni video dropping? 👀👀
Hey Boys, love your reviews and conversations around this sport. You should start your own hat company. Nothing against Melin (I own one myself) but they do not look great. The giant peak on the front, the "rope" at the base of the brim, the perforation, the branding all over....I know it's made to last and that I appreciate but it is literally the "dad hat" We need more variety and I think you both could make a great brand that people would love.
This is the ONLY podcast that I listen to from beginning to end. The interaction between Chris and Wil makes it informative and entertaining. How about setting up a tourney with @pickballstudio fans. I live in Austin and would be willing to drive to Oklahoma to play. One other thought is to put money towards a prize pool and donate it to charity. Thoughts?
Preach about that quality control! 🗣️🙌🏻😤 My Gen 3 was gritty on one side and significantly less on the other. Still love the paddle, but that's a bummer. And I was trying to buy from a friend that's sponsored, but then the paddle you get is a crapshoot.
Any thoughts on the spartus apollo
What is the hat brand u guys are wearing????
Melin .. I like their runners hats for pb if you like an unstructured hat that’s light
I'm all in on the new Vatic ONI the $150 is much more palatable than the $280 especially with the QC issues at Joola.
Please review the Colin and the Bright Scorpius, compare and contrast , Lots of people are very interested in just those 2 !
This!
John Kew has.
Curious, have you ever considered getting into testing services for companies? For example give your thoughts on pro and cons for paddle.
You guys are the best. Speaking of negative reviews and repercussions, didn't one company threaten to sue you for publishing starrett/roughness numbers?
Someone from USAP told me that is what the company said. But, looking back at the situation and the person who communicated that information from USAP, I think it was likely a bluff because they didn't want the negative attention of not handling the grit situation properly.
@@PickleballStudio So back to publishing the readings? I noticed on your Joola review you alluded to the roughness but didn't publish any numbers.
Have you tried the J2k? What do you think of it?
Hope to see what you both think of the OM AERO "RACKET" Heard the ONI plays like a GB Pro.
Thanks to you both for all you do. Stay with what works "NO SHILL"
I for sure praised "your girl" She's a real baller.
DUPR still needs work.
Just enjoyed spending an hour+ with virtual friends Will (and his co-host) Chris ... best pickleball pod around.
The companies failing never crossed my mind. I keep the horse blinders on and worry about the consumers money lol.
Wanna see how powerful reviewers are. Look at how Legacy Pro used to be popular due to reviews and now they are non existent.
Also, I state in every video I'm getting kickback from the commision codes. It eliminated comments asking if I was getting paid for reviews.
I was talking to a guy at Red Rock Open who purchased 3 joola gen 3s from the pickleball central tent and ALL 3 failed the PPA testing, so he took them back to the tent and got 3 different ones, and they ALL failed again, so he went back and got 3 more, and 2 of those failed. 8 out of 9 paddles failed the PPA testing. Aboslute joke chinesium quality control, but what else would anyone expect from joola. paddle is such an illegal dud that Ben wont even use it
Or Joola wants the factory to produce these illegal paddles on purpose so it appeals to the masses that want a “legal” paddle that are clearly not. I felt the FOMO initially because I didn’t want to be outgunned at rec, but my senses came around and deleted my cart.
One thing to keep in mind with PPA testing is that they use PPL to conduct their tests.
PPL and USAP use completely different methods for testing deflection and have different guidelines for what is "legal" vs "illegal".
So, there's a good chance (I can't say for certain) that those same paddles would pass USAP tests but not PPL. So what's "illegal" in one organization would be legal in another.
Another example is that PPL's grit limit is higher than USAP. So, an illegal paddle for USAP could pass at PPL.
Testing is a mess across the board. at APP tournaments they do a disbond test with a scanner rather than an actual deflection test.
@@PickleballStudio If I remember right he said it was both the grit levels and deflection that were too high for the PPL, which means way too high for USAP, but there isn't paddle testing at ametuer events/local tourneys so at the local level people will get away with illegal paddles, hence the "cheater" paddle sentiment
@@johnsanchez2589 good man
@@PickleballStudio What a big fu*king mess. Pickleball a pro sport, I don't think so. Not even close.
For the samdbagging / ratings discussion... It really depends. My understanding is that the devisions are that number, up to the next half step, so 4.7-4.8 makes sense as the ratings of the gold medal match players. The other part is more frustrating from a newer players perspective, that either people are good and dont know it/ don't have a rating. It feels like theres no good place to 'Start out' in tournament play if you're going to get whalloped on no matter what.
Love this podcast - always. I have bought paddles based on Chris' reviews, John Kew's reviews, and Braydon's reviews. I wonder if Chris wants to say something every time Will butchers a word. :)
Oh, I think I spy a Willinator on the back wall of Chris’s paddle racks.
Anyone have info on the new ProXR paddle?
i am super interested in the vatic and would love to see that review ASAP please :))
I was paid 150 dollars a few years ago to review EGO electric products, specifically a new 24 inch snowblower and I actually gave input that they used to revise the tool....I gave them harsh and positive critique and 2 yrs later, they wanted me to review another product...I gave it a pretty scathing review but at least they let me keep the 2000 dollar product...but maybe they revised some things I brought about....companies have to accept reality when they get "honest" reviews especially if the reviewers are paid....i think they like the negative and the positives because real people are going to spread the reviews all over the internet and it will spread like wildfire....if a paddle sucks, we have to know and so does the company because that will tremendously affect future sales and future products down the line...keep up the good work guys
love the videos and the podcast, the affiliate backend must be really good though as this is a very niche channel and typically under 100k subs you cannot live off the income, if your upfront about taking money for a review i think its completely fine go get that money Chris get that house with a court keep up the hustle thanks for the content
I went to the PB store near me I checked all the Gen 3 paddles they had, Scorpius, Perseus, and Magnus. I couldn’t find one out of about twenty that had consistent grit. Most were pretty smooth on both sides one Scorpius had a lot of grit on one side but not the other. No way I buy until they get the grit and grip fixed.
That Oni Paddle is sick....i am looking forward to the review!!!!
Great content. I still think the neonic flow is above average, ha. I do think you and Will gravitate away from more control oriented paddles, but I guess that’s the direction the industry is headed! Keep up the good work!
I considering the Neonic Flow. What can you compare it against? Double Black Diamond by chance?
@@scottdvorak5606 hey, I think it plays somewhat similar, but has very good control, reset ability while being more offensive, more pop than you average control paddle.. I played with one and it’s now on my short list of paddles I might go to next.
@@ashevillescarborough Cool. Thanks. That's kind of what I was hearing from some other reviewers. I need some help with my control game. So I was leaning more toward that. The Double Black Diamond sounds very appealing. But I liked the idea of a bit more spin and pop at a lower price point. I put down 50% on a Flow. So I'm hoping it delivers.
@@scottdvorak5606 I currently mostly play with the pickleball apes PLE S which has amazing control, but more pop than say, a vatic prism flash, but still very low on the pop spectrum. The neonic has just a hair more, and is very manuverable.
4.5 specifically is the hardest one for sandbagging. I would 4.9 and below but the thing is 5.0+ is what most brackets are. Making it so hard if you are a 5.01 player and you are up against 5.5 players it is very difficult. So anything below 5.0 is fine in 4.5 to me. I always went with if you medal 3 times in a division you have to move up. It's a better system then DUPR rating for where you should be.
I wish there could be a definite limit on a player's rating for each event. In TT, if my rating is 1724, then I'm allowed to play in a 1750 event, but 1700 is off limits.
They mentioned a point that I've wondered about. How to make televised pickleball more interesting. Was mentioned about slow-mo and more angles. Most of the time I just looks like four people hitting the ball back and forth to each other. Screens with more stats and radar guns would help.
Commentary suffers because the action, especially at the net, happened so quickly.
Hopefully they'll find more interesting ways to televise the sport.
I have tried watching a full PB match and honestly, after about 10 minutes, I end up changing. PPA is the worst. Poor video, announcers are not interesting. I mean, if they had someone like McEnroe who does tennis do PB, it would help. Also, it's a lot more fun to play than watch because who wants to see dink after dink. Reminds me of watching college basketball before they put in the shot clock. A team would be winning and literally the last 8 minutes of the game, they would just pass until the game was over.
One of the demos at my Lifetime in Indy had a loose butt cap out of the box as well (was a CJ Scorp 16, FWIW)
it cant be "sandbagging" if the tournament says 4.5-5.0 until your # starts with a 5... yeah it would suck to be at exactly 4.5 and go up against a 4.99... but I wouldn't consider it sandbagging. personally though if I'm the 4.99 I'm going to play 5.0+ for better competition.
even if your partner is rated 4.5?
Will u guys ever do a paddle review on the Wilson Blaze Tour 16mm? It’s a tennis brand so I wonder if they can match the paddle’s out there quality/price wise. U dont have to play 2 weeks with it to give a review 🤣
Do y’all have recommendations on ways to find Asian brands or specific brand names for protective eyewear? I cannot find any brands on US websites that make Asian fit/low nose bridge fit. Just wondering since you recently went to Asia and you might know the retail market there. It’s really surprising how few choices there are, I’ve only come across maybe 1-3 styles that have an adjustable nose bridge but they are >$100 so I haven’t tried them.
ruby projects are fantastic, but are pricey
Oakley has low bridge fit options
I have the Gen 3 Magnus and really like it. Grit is the same on both sides and no butt cap issues.
14mm or 16mm?
@@kabnis2022 14
My Hudef viva pro gen 3 also performed well, especially with the upgrade pop and control.
The only thing I would add is that you should clearly state that XYZ Paddle company provided you with the paddle/paddles free of charge to review. As long as you are totally transparent, then people can form an accurately informed opinion.
I can honestly say Chris has turned down money from a company specifically to have him do a review. I do trust Chris’s reviews and glad he is doing this for us! U deserve to be paid and hope u are being compensated for all the hard work ur doing!!
Yo I would love an ALW-C video😊
I’ve always wondered why no review of Volair M2F. It’s unique, won spinner of 2023 and Kew and Brayden both had it in their top three when you colabed in Vegas.
I love the shape of that paddle. I'd love to see Chris do a review of it.
Thank you for your time and posting. Agree. Pro pickleball actually sucks, most of the productions are poorly constructed with lousy video quality. Especially the PPA. They don't even treat their pro players very well. It's sandbagging with you do it on purpose.
47:00 The Garye Pro XL is down to $40 on Amazon now.
Sheeeeeeeesh that’s a steal
The screenshot you showed looks like the Amped Pro. Project 005 all grown up.
I’m relatively new to pickleball, but why don’t they limit the DUPR to be the max allowable at any given level. At the date of tournament entry, you can’t have a current rating above the limit for the bracket. You could still have people trying to game their DUPR to be below the entry level, but it seems like this would limit sandbagging. Rather than 4.5 meaning anything below 5, 4.5 means you must be at 4.5 or below.
bc pickleball directors are absolute buffoons... I love pickleball but literally everything from the rankings to the bracket to the guidelines/enforcement is a joke
Ronbus new FX paddle ?
Haha, I commented on Franklin’s release video mentioning it too heavy/high SW and the video creator replied “it’s what the pros use” (not verbatim).
I mean both statements can be true
When I first moved to 3.5, everyone was 3.85+ and we got our butts kicked. But our ratings only went up! All those guys eventually moved up. Three gold medals in a row, and our opponents are tapping their feet, wondering why we don't move up. If I moved up I can still be 35 at best, right? Chris, winning at 4.5 really removes that tag for you!
i played singles 4.0 this past weekend and got my butt kicked 11-1 in my first game against a tennis guy with a joola perseus. if you can control it and keep it in, that paddle is a game buster (i say the control piece because i beat a joola hyperion 11-3 in the same tourney). crazy heat for singles
what’s up guys
I live a 1/4 mile down the street from that temple in Saginaw!
What’s the $50 paddle?
Garye on Amazon
@@PickleballStudioappreciate the quick reply. I gotta say. I switched over to the 11six24 huarache control+. Is great and was an easy transition. Didn’t have the same effect as Chris and winning a tournament. 😅
I just purchased the Judah from Triple J it has been pretty good so far. I got it after watching a video review and knocked off 10 bucks. Pickleball Will do you live in OKLAHOMA? Lol I also know Tanner through Pickleball in OKC.
Can you comment on forcing Thrive to only let you and 3 other reviewers have the only Azul reviews for the presale? That doesn't seem like it benefits the pickleball community and was done just for more affiliate sales.
I sure can.
Thrive asked us in Vegas (or maybe on a phone call before the trip? I can't remember) if we wanted an exclusive launch of the AZUL and I said that I did not want it. I'm pretty sure that's what the other three said too, but I can't speak for them.
I don't know if I/we didn't communicate very clearly back to Thrive, but it seems like Thrive still kept it exclusive even though no one wanted it. I thought I heard through the grape vine recently that someone asked about reviewing it for launch and Thrive told them that we had dibs first. Had I heard about this prior to launch, I would have told them to give everyone access to it.
So no, we reviewers didn't force Thrive to give us an exclusive review. They asked us if we wanted it and I don't believe anyone said they actually wanted to do that.
After knowing Will/John/Braydon for a bit, none of them are the type of people that would demand that.
Considering I don't even have an AZUL review out, it would be pretty silly to demand an exclusive review and then not put out a video when it launches.
@@PickleballStudio Thanks for the response, seemed shady but that clears it up.
No problem! I can see how only half of the story would come across as shady. Appreciate you asking.
I lost to a 4.4 and 4.9 in my last 4.0 gold medal match. I assure you nobody is going to be annoyed by 4.7s in the 4.5 bracket. Local tournaments are generally 4.5+ which means most of the sandbagging is 4.5s trying to play in the 4.0 bracket.
I think +/- 0.25 is fair for the division. So for a 4.5 we should have aspiring 4.25’s and some more realistic 4.75’s
I buy all my paddles based on your reviews! :)
Chris you are a pro …well prepared.. great communicator …detailed …. Will you have an opportunity to improve …
Good conversation. If you start picking and choosing which paddles you review, I believe you will lose visitors to other paddle reviewers. if you evaluate one paddle per week as opposed to several. Viewers will be diverted by the more recent paddle reviewers who are reviewing multiple products each week.
Do a review on a Ali baba knock off or one on your favorite paddle the Z5! 😂
Give me a 18k style weave with blue and red Kevlar. I’d buy one on looks alone.
I’m both an avid pickle baller and golfer. I’d say , in case you don’t, watch how Mark Crossfield reviews golf clubs because he does it properly; as do you.
Lol funny thing is...Etta's DUPR is 5.0+ now 😂
I so wish pickleball divisions had a hard cutoff for ratings so everyone would just play their number and move on, but until then it’s going to be people playing the closest division below their rating.
The downside for me for your reviews is that we seem to be different players. You prefer the versions of gear box and joola that i don't like. There is room for improvement to have your brother and Will's favorite and their brief reasons, because we have different preferences in swing weight, shape preferences, power, versus spin, vs maneuverability preferences.
no one cares bro he ain't gonna do all that
I really want to believe that Gearbox didn't pay people to review the Power Pro Elongated because that paddle was not very good, Only one guy still plays with that paddle at our 10 courts in Central Florida. Everyone else sold them or got new paddles. Whether it's QC or just a garbage paddle, almost nobody still plays with it around here.
PB Will talkibg about 18K RCF and doesnt reference his own paddle behind Chris the Willinator haha
That’s why you always buy paddles in person
Fed’s won 3 golds and the rest silvers.
Everyone rated the Selkirk 005 as the worst paddle of the year, why would they release it?
The Gen 3 hate is crazy. Anyone that I’ve played with that bought one, is super happy with theirs.
🤣Fisker was going broke before MB. His review had NOTHING to do with its impending implosion -- I mean it didn't help. Keep in mind, this is the 2nd iteration of Fisker (the first went bankrupt as well). Management issues.
If you take first or second 3+ times you need to move up.
Watched your gold medal match. I meant to comment but forgot Chris. Your partner carried you to the gold! No two ways about it. Remember 3.5 at best (unless you partner with a 5.0!). JK. CONGRATS. IT WAS A GREAT MATCH.