Could not afford time and frozen funds conditions. Thank you Mazzer for showing up on time. Adorable peace. Not looking back to all the waiting lists nonsense.
Good on you to providing you opinion on it and no issues as you bought it with your own money. Looks like a great grinder. Personally I cannot justify giving them all my $$ up front but to each their own.
I was also in the Dec. ''24 batch (SSP HU Blind, black, dark walnut). Mine arrived early about 2 weeks ago. There's so much for me to love because it's a significant upgrade for me and I do get additional flavor notes compared to what I was using. The bottom of the catch cup is magnetic and adheres to my scale, so I won't be using it for weighing. Mine also came with a dusting of test coffee. I wasn't annoyed over that. I didn't buy the case. Mine did not come with all those nice tools and I was a bit panicked during unboxing. Apparently, they did a reconfigure and now only one wrench and an Allen key are needed or so they tell me. I have a bellow from a different grinder fits perfectly so I use it instead of banging on the top and it works well. Overall, I'm very happy with it.
Hmmm... for me, this was my most anticipated video of yours in ages. I feel like the Z1 could be a game changer. A perfect balance between the Niche Zero, without the plastic parts, and high-end grinders, like the Kafatek and Weber EG1. The Z1 reduces its parts to a minimum and each one made of the highest quality. That's rare. The heavy metal parts make my knees buckle. It seems to me like brilliant engineering but maybe I'm missing something? The $49 Pelican case is a non-conversation in my book. I'd pay the extra price for the Pelican and have the equipment laid out nicely rather than the grinder coming in a cardboard box. Also, perhaps I don't mind the coffee grinds in the burrs? The coffee might mitigate the smell of new metal. My concern is the quality of the grind, quality of the machine, speed, and ease of function and cleaning. I can't quite tell if the noise of the motor would be bothersome or not. If it's too loud for you, what is the solution? In future versions, can the motor be made quieter? This was a first impression video but my "impression" from watching it is that you're on the fence about the Z1. I'm uncertain as to why. Too many questions and not very many answers, but that's why it's called a "first impression" video. You need more time with it. We are all waiting with anticipation what the final verdict will be and how it compares to other grinders, yes, obviously the P64 but also to Weber grinders and other more expensive grinders. I get the feeling that the Z1 is punching above its weight class. I could be wrong. Stay awesome.
EG-1 comes with used grounds in it and so does the Kafatek monolith flat max 2. It’s for testing as you mentioned. These guys don’t have time to strip and clean unless you want to pay another $50-80 bucks. I’ll have mine with coffee in it thanks. Who care to be honest.
Yes, I'm not bothered at all by the grinds in the grinder. I might even prefer it because new metal has a smell and the grinds on the metal may mitigate the smell of new metal.
While I like some of the ideas such as blind burrs, as a European neither Option-O nor Zerno grinders are really an option imo, import taxes make them just way too expensive. You would probably end up paying 2k+ Euros for either the P64 or Z1, so more than twice the price of a Philos.
Purchased the Z1 during the infamous Batch 4, which sold out in under 5 minutes. Delivered in May 2024. I paid $1,623 USD (shipped) with some accessories, but UPS added €311 for duties, VAT, and handling fees. In the EU, the total comes to just shy of 2k-but in my opinion, it's absolutely worth it. No other grinder at this price point matches what the Zerno offers. The Z1 is positioned at a very competitive price, with manufacturing quality and tolerances comparable to the Monolith, which costs several thousand more.
@@DKMarik I did A/B them as well w MP and Cast, and found not that much difference for me. Plus workflow, ease of use, and importantly lead time, I’d recommend people to stick with P64 at this moment.
@@gordon2875 don’t get me wrong, P64 is a fantastic grinder and set the standard. I also think the Zerno is an incredibly good one. Lead time is honestly the real issue here. Workflow is subjective, but I fully understand your PoV.
Just got mine last week. Almost the same setup. The SSP MP and the slow feed auger. Mine too came with coffee still left inside. I did opt to install the slow speed auger right away. When they say slow it is really slow. I've been dosing 19g of pretty light coffee and it takes like a minute. I'm going to change it out back to the medium speed ones. For my workflow static hasn't been really an issue. 4 squirts of water from the spray bottle and static isn't an issue. I also dose into the cup. This really does keep the mess to a minimal. Overall I have been overall satisfied with the Zerno. I'm getting tasty shots and do find the build quality very nice. I am coming over from a Niche Zero and hand grinding and I don't find the noise that bad. It's maybe a little louder than the Niche and higher pitched.
@ For me I think it is worth it. I drink both espresso and brewed coffee. I stopped doing brew on my Niche a long time ago. The espresso I was pulling was fine on the Niche, but I have always preferred the shots I would get at shop I go to. This shop uses a Weber EG-1. Bascially I like the more modern style espresso. Lighter body and high clarity. I can't really make those style of shots on my Niche. Right now I think I'm right at the edge of diminishing returns. I don't think I'll upgrade to another grinder. I probably could of been happy with shots from a DF64. But I never loved the way they looked.
I agree ! Seasoning burrs must be 100% Placebo, that TIN coating is so thin and hard, that ANY changes to the Burr geometry would instantly show up with a "no gold" grey finish. From Wikipedia "In most applications a coating of less than 5 micrometres (0.00020 in)" I like the styling, and If you like me need a low grinder it seems a good option, many grinders are so high.
Yeah I think those two grinders are pretty apt for comparison, so when the full review comes around I’ll definitely be touching on how they compare and contrast.
I’m also super interested in getting some direct comparisons with the Philos. I would love to see a full head-to-head comparison but I know that might not be an option
They're pretty much the same thing, considering that Mazzer saw what Zerno was doing and pretty much just made a bigger, heavier version of it that doesn't have as good alignment out of the box.
For the full review, please try the SSP HU with slow auger, i think thats the best setup for espresso ! and then compare it to different grinder if you want to
The biggest turnoff and reason I went for a philos was I didn’t feel like giving a company a 10+ month interest free loan to receive a product. Would have likely purchased one via a deposit system or actual drops, but I’ve been burned before my hobby’s that use prepay group buys and will never do that again.
As for the static, They say in the manual that it increases with the foam pads underneath the cup. I myself found it to have too much static but after removing the foam, it is much better. Night and day! :D
Hopefilly the static dies down with a bit more use i think new grinders / burrs often have more static. Oh also you speculated about popcorning. The med speed auger for me had oretty much no popcorning. Unlike the Timore 078s where the auger popcorned like crazy.
I currently have a Niche Zero and while I have been following your channel for a while, just got into espresso earlier this year. I'm contemplating if this should be my end game grinder. I love its aesthetic.
I received mine in November. It is, without even a distant second, my favorite coffee product of all time -- and I've owned A LOT. I couldn't possibly be any happier with it. Is it expensive for a home grinder? Without question. Would you have a full appreciation for why it's so expensive from the moment you take it out of the box? Also without question. The Zerno Z1 sets the standard.
Ordered the Zerno, so thank you very much for these thorough impressions and lack of sugarcoating! Also went for the blind SSP MP, very curious to see what you will say a couple months down the line.
I paid $10 to get on the Waitlist but am glad I missed the order window after watching this video I listened with headphones… does it sound a bit “high pitched/screechy”? back to wanting a Lagom P64 ------ perhaps a DF64V😳 a good pairing for a Bezzera BZ10?
Same thing here. But not so much the noise. P64 is a proven and well tested (by now) design which has been through all its trials and tribulations. Is it better? Don’t think so. Is it worse? Don’t think so either. At that level you’re playing with minute result differences in the cup and down to personal taste palette.
@@azza2575 the amount of static, guessing P64 variable speed is greatly more “fun/instant” variant than mechanically swapping sugar, and the sound it made (as I could assess it via airpods pro) - of course, the DF64V is significantly worse noise 😳 but only $500… P64 though $1.7k probably “last grinder bought” 🤔
Thanks for the review. I ordered mine in November. And it's kinda frustrating to see how Zerno is positioning itself as a high-end grinder, super precise, but it arrived used, not aligned and new augur is not installed. Hope it's gonna work for a long time
@@dzholas I believe it was aligned, but I didn’t test the zero as I opened it up right away, so re-zeroed as is my practice when I take grinders apart. Also The slow auger is an option in addition to the stock medium so I wasn’t expecting it to be installed.
Great first review. Surprised you didn’t mention the fact that it wasn’t zeroed when shipped to you. I find that very surprising from a premium grinder.
I’m sure it was likely zeroed from them, though I didn’t test that and just immediately opened it up to clean it out and re-zeroed as I do after cleaning any grinder.
@@nissanguy16 I’ve heard mixed takes on the static, possibly depends on where you’re located but definitely seems to build more than my other grinders for some reason.
I am a little surprized by the lack of adjustable RPM. Some of the most fun I've had with my Lagom 01 has been playing with RPM for my espresso shots. The tastiest shots I've made were at the lowest setting around 200 rpm. Seems like at that level this should be an option.
RPM adjustment really is less impactful than the ability to change the feed rate. RPM adjustment only shifts the direction of the particle distribution. It doesn't produce less or more fines, it just means you have to grind at different settings to get the same result. I really never change the RPM on any of my grinders that have that setting. This is a perfectly reasonable design choice imo.
Oh I'm very excited for the Z1! I'm glad you finally got yours, I hope it was worth the wait. One note, the micron adjustment does not work the same way as Comandante, describing burr gap, so the particle size will not be what the dial reads, although trying to make it alight might be an interesting test. It is describing burr movement, which doesn't correlate exactly to that size of article. The Comandante method is nonsense because there will always be some level of misalignment and movement under load making the gap fluctuate. However, you can know how much a turn of the dial moves the burrs apart with much more precision.
I'm super happy with my Zerno. Got it back before they introduced the portafilter holder. There was an issue with the original auger, but they came out with a new one that fixed the problem. I started with the HU burrs, but switched to the CV2s. We do pour over and espresso. It seems to work well for both. The only issue I have is with static. I got the portafilter holder, but there's too much static for that to work. Just like the video, coffee goes everywhere at the end. Other then that, I'm super happy.
I kept going back and forth between the Lucca 75 (which I know you reviewed) and Z1 right around this time last year. I went with the Lucca after realizing how long the wait for a Z1 would be, and I’m glad I did. The Z1 is a BEAUTIFUL machine, and I’d love to try one someday day, but I get a porta-filter full of static-free grounds in under 3 seconds, super quiet operation, and an absolutely fantastic shot. Definitely not the grinder for someone who wants filter-focused burrs or wants to experiment with different burrs though.
Even though price doesn’t compare, I would like to know how you compare this to cheaper options like Timemore Scuptor and Chinese products like Barsetto Bag E6 / Gevi Grindmaster and all the DFxx variants.
I just went to go buy a used Zerno from the 2023 August production run and it was holding 7 grams of retention when I put it to espresso settings and then spat out an extra 7 or 8 grams when I switched it back to 600microns. Then I could only get one screw off when I tried to inspect the grind chamber. The ither screw was frozen/the supplied tool could not twist it off without giving way. Im concerned about this in a longevity mindset. It was much quieter than I thought it would be though.
Also was shocked by how slow it ground as I'm used to grinding 20g of espresso fineness within 7.5 seconds. Secondly, my Weber Blind shaker was repelled by the base instead of centering to it so I guess manufacturers all flip their magnets whatever way they feel like? Was shocked to see my blind shaker doing the opposite of centering haha
@@Bassplanes I didn’t do any direct side by side, but I wouldn’t say there’s any noticeable difference thus far. But I want to dig a bit deeper into that question.
Thank you for the insightful and well-crafted review! I’m currently deciding between this model and the Lagom P64. Would you say there’s a noticeable difference in taste or body between this and the Lagom? Additionally, in your professional opinion, does one offer better alignment and particle distribution compared to the other?
I've had mine for over a year. Customer service and the Discord are fantastic resources. Yes it is a bit loud when it's just running without grinding, but that just doesn't bother me personally. If you are going to explore this grinder, Id like to know your thoughts on other burrs.
The Gevi grindmaster has similar features plus an ionizer and quieter motor i believe but not made in USA and likely not as great quality control or build qiality. Also might not be officially available yet my friend has a test unit and it seems pretty decent. First time i tried it with their stock burrs i didnt love it. But 2nd time after ut had more seasoning i think it was pretty good it can also take all the ssp 64mm burrs but probably not blind ones which i dont think is that big of a deal. I think some burrs DO benefit from seasoning others not quite so much. I thought the ssp MP burrs maybe get a little smoother after years of use but that could just be due to my water or coffee practices changing over time.
Are you thinking espresso specific? Because even though I don’t run with LM machines anymore, their home espresso subscription was the only one I’ve ever used, and I generally was pretty happy with the options and variety.
@@Sprometheus I brew mostly manual pour-over (~70-50%), some espresso (pumpkin spice lattes October-December) (~25%), and some cold brew (during summer) (~25%). I rarely do French press, moka pot, and automatic drip (~10-15%). I love traditional espresso shots and I am willing to try modern coffees for pour-over.
I think high-cost 64mm grinders are an uncomfortable segment of the market - slow and screechy (particularly ssp mp), with the same burrs other/cheaper platforms, and only a bit less money than used examples of 98/100mm. Personally, I think there’s good ROI on bumping up to one of the bigger options. I had a p64 and later moved to secondhand M4/01/MC6/max2 and each of theme were much more pleasant in everyday use.
It's so odd that Mazzer explicitly tells you not to RDT in the manual and that Zerno includes an RDT bottle. I haven't had issues with static with the Philos so it doesn't bother me that I'm "not allowed".
@@MeggaMortous for some reason, I'm not really experiencing static issues with the Philos. That being said, I've only been using it for a month. So far so good.
@@DeferFuncClose I've heard static is being avoided by the loop the magnet+cup+metal base creates. So in a way a passive static discharger. Just wanted to ask you from personal experience, thanks.
From all the videos I saw online and written content I wasn’t aware an 18 gram dose would take 45 seconds 😭 other auger pre breaker grinders do almost 2 grams a second! Maybe the only thing I wish is Grinder had was a deioniser, but I can put up with a few things because everything inside is built really really well.
@@rohanlg790 the thought process behind the slower feed is a more consistent grind and reducing the possibly of re-grinding as well. They had a fast auger in earlier versions and it’s now no longer in production. Not sure of the reasoning. But I haven’t tested the particle distribution against the slow auger, but curious to see if there’s a noticeable difference beyond the particle test.
@@Sprometheus it’s just interesting to me, that you can put 64 mm burrs in other commercial grade coffee grinders, and they make amazing coffee and grind 18 g in 5 to 7 seconds. I get its focusing on grind distribution, but if the coffee shop is delicious and the grinding time is a quarter, idk, is there much benefit going that much slower ? The difference should be massive to justify four times the grinding time. I just don’t think it is.
Im curious to know how the slow feeder works and if you notice any major differnces betwen the Zerno Z1 and P64 i didnt think they were very different taste wise with medium auger and blind vs regilar ssp MP burrs in the p64 set to a similar rpm. With the slow feed auger, I think Zerno may be better, but you can probably achieve something similar by manually slow feeding into the p64.
I have a Z1 and have had it for probably a year or so. I use it almost daily as it's my office grinder. I also took this opportunity to try out the MP V1 Brew burrs. I upgraded to this from the Acaia Orbit, and I also have a P100. It is on the whole, better than the Orbit, though the Orbit is fantastic. The Orbit has a far superior workflow, but I think the level of customization on the Z1 outweighs the small issues with mess, and the lack of an auto-purge feature. The blind burrs and slower feed rate/pre-breaker do make a difference in my experience, though it's not really as much as I'd hoped. I still find myself thinking that in most cases, if I have a truly special coffee, I'm going to grind it with my P100 because the potential on that is just significantly higher. I have come to the opinion that if you are someone who is in the market for a high end 64mm grinder, you should just save some extra money and buy a 98mm. All told, the Z1 for me was roughly $1500. Nowadays, a used P100 goes for about $2k. The P100 is broadly superior to any 64mm grinder out there, and I would just recommend people save a few hundred more for the bigger burr platform. In my opinion, these high end 64mm grinders really don't produce much better coffee than your DF64 types. In the 64mm space, anything above the cost of a DF64 is purely workflow or aesthetic related. You pay a premium for better aesthetics, and better workflow. I totally get this as someone who has used cheap 64mm grinders and found the workflow to suck the joy out of the experience, but if you have the money to spend on a titan grinder, get a 98mm option instead. That gets you both the better workflow, and ultimately a really noticeable increase in realized potential in the cup.
I was eyeing the Z1 but went with a DF64V that was the V1 and open box so I got it for $350 no tax and free shipping and so far it's been an incredible value. The only thing I wonder about with in cup performance is the alignment, as objectively spending the extra for a Z1 or P64 is mainly to get that super tight and permanent alignment that is built in to the grinder with tight tolerances, along with build quality.
You make good points but in my experience the 98mm department is just so ultra clarity and clean, I really think some coffee especially the darker roast coffee would taste weird. But the lighter ones sure would benefit a lot.
@@randyhou8522 Yes the alignment is definitely an issue but it's marginal unless the alignment is crazy bad. I've had aligned and unaligned grinders and I can't tell that much of a difference. If you're that worried about it you can align it yourself anyway. NBD.
@@rachidt2764 I mean workflow closer to the 064S as it’s another vertical, quality in terms of materials the z1 and the P64 are very close in my opinion, but taste is hard one to speak on until I run the same burrs through each.
The grounds in a new grinder trend needs to stop, I feel like it's normalized to the point where a manufacturer of what seems to be a hand-build precision machine doesn't expect to be called out for it by a public figure. I just bought the E65S GbW, you know how much it costs, and I had to clean it before use. I expect to receive a clean machine. My Philos arrived completely clean, I was very pleased.
@@Jaroslav. For me I get a lot of loaners and machines that come direct from other users, but when I buy a grinder I do expect it to be cleaned out. The last grinder I bought, the P64 had a little grinds in it too. It’s just that little extra bit of polish that makes a difference.
@@paul--b they do, I don’t know of any manufacturers that don’t. But I don’t agree that it’s nitpicky. It’s more than fair to have expectations of a clean, brushed out grinder when you buy a premium product. It’s part of the customer experience. I’d argue having a grinder with chipped paint out of the box is inconsequential to the actually grinder function, but not the expectation a customer would have. And yes, there is more to “complain” about when it comes to grinders, but this is about painting a full picture from the out of the box experience forward. The other things will come, or be added upon on the coming months.
Ok but - p64 MP vs Zerno MP - is the cup different all things the same? Not the pelican case, the noise, etc. workflow and taste -That’s really the what matters. Blind taste test it and let us know.
one thing I'm a bit disappointed with that you haven't mentioned yet is the stand for the portafilter. It's a bit too high imo. If i have my decent funnel on, the spout is below the top of my decent funnel and it makes it really hard to remove the portafilter filled with ground coffee. Which means i never use the stand. I think a funnel is practically mandatory for wdt when grinding directly into the basket, so i don't get why the height seems to not be designed to accommodate a funnel. Also the magnets are reversed in polarity to my weber shaker; which obviously isn't really anyone's fault just a noticable annoyance, so unfortunately the base repels the weber shaker and I can't grind directly into it. So I have to grind into the cup provided which isn't ideal. It is also common for a bean to get stuck in the auger and never reach the burrs. and then the following morning i turn on the grinder and the bean is ground before i pour any more coffee in. This was an issue with the default medium feed auger, and then i replaced it with the slow feed one, and it continued to be an issue.
@@atavax311 At the time of filming I was still sort of feeling out the stand. Now, a week or so in I can say I’ve banished it back to the hard case where it will remain. You’re correct. It’s too high, and if you don’t stand there and periodically shake and tap it the grinds will mound up and push into the chamber. It’s just not a convenient solution for direct portafilter grinding. The beans getting lost in the auger is also something I can’t say I’ve experienced quite yet, but it’s fresh on my bar and I’m sure I’ll have more to say in a few months.
I've been a Z1 owner for a few months. Well worth the wait. Not only the grinder is crazy good, but the people and the company behind it are a rare gem in the industry.
I ordered a Philos in September and I’ve been using it a month and I doubt variable rpm would make a noticeable difference in my life. It’s also funny to see the holy grail of grinders falling completely flat once people realize it’s not a special device.
The Philos is looking better and better compared to the Z1. I love the idea and design of the Z1 but a 6+ month production time along with questionable performance really kills my desire for one. I can't imagine waiting 45+ seconds to grind 18-20gs of coffee. How long does it take for your Philos to grind a 18-20gs?
@@azza2575 Slow grind time, loud and high pitched motor, and potentially massive static issue. I'm currently using an Atom 75 and the grinds are fluffy and I get a consistent dose in less than 3 seconds. Perhaps a single dose grind isn't for me, but the idea is fun to toy with.
lol, your first gripes re foam and having to brush out test grinds are pretty silly. static is a valid comment to be aware of. sounds like whats otherwise important - grind, taste, etc. is consistent with my experience.
I don't think I have a go-to really. They actually aren't too bad in a pinch, or when I have family over who want a darker roast. But they have an African blend that is roasted pretty dark, and is actually not too bad when dialed in.
I am not impressed. It seems like people judge grinders by their look more than anything. I looked at the product page, and there is nothing, absolutely nothing about how it's built, how they make it well aligned, this kind of important stuff. But it's "sustainable", wait what? Also, at the end of the day, it's a 64mm grinder, and it's atrociously expensive. 300w and that motor noise are a bit ridiculous for this price tag. And of course you go to the page and there is a "waitlist", I mean, do people really fall for this? It's just a marketing gimmick to make people feel they buy the new ultra rare product. Look! You're missing out, everybody wants this! If you add the µm on the dial, which I would doubt is accurate, and you end up with a bad feeling on all this. Somehow it looks like this is the new normal, ultra expensive stuff, ultra expensive coffee, ultra limited™(but you'll get the exact same one next week). I mean, we need a cold shower.
Oh and so you know, the coffee is left in there on purpose. It's here to make you feel it has been tested. Like, of course you can test anything by running some coffee through it.
Very refreshing to hear from a channel with many followers, the BS behind seasoning. You dont season newly bought kitchen knives, power tools, wrenchs. Etc. And why waste so much coffee beans. Its a straight slap in the face expecially to an industry thats "" all about fair trade, equal rights, sustainability. Hopefully youre happy with ypur purchase. I couldnt justify that much. Suprisingly the df54 has suprised me in taste and quality. Sold all my previous grinders just out of principle
that motor sound, foam insert, not calibrated, coffee residue, static, price, wait time and price again….way to many negatives. I think the company is great and if you have the cash, they’ll build you one but a person can spend a lot less and get 98% there
Thank you for reviewing (one of my options). My first thoughts were that you would comment on the noticeable difference between blind burrs and what you (we mostly) have. I was a bit disappointed that you did not notice an uptick in flavor.
@@markw-2025 well a fuller review will be coming eventually, and keep in mind this is just a first impression. That said, I don’t think the blind burr design really is going to make a large enough of a difference to be noticeable in the cup, I mean the addition of a small % of surface area would in my mind mean a slightly more efficient burr, but not change the flavor for the better.
Not delivering a clean grinder is criminal, for the money you're spending. My Lagom Mini was both clean and packaged very nicely in quality foam, and at 1/5 the price. The static too is unacceptable. How can it be that I've heard the designer is going for near impossible precision tolerances, but there's seemingly no consideration for static, yet plenty of other companies include solutions? It's been such a hyped grinder and your explanation of the taste is tasty, but not groundbreaking. What a shame.
@@LaMereACaniche my personal take is it’s kind of like old car break in periods. The reasoning back then was to keep it below a certain speed to wear in any parts that had imperfections etc. then you’d change the oil and it would have a good amount of metallic shards and slivers in it as it wore in. But today, with manufacturing processes being so incredibly accurate and error free it just feels like a fallacy. To expect a pair of burrs intended to have a 1000+ lbs lifespan of grinding capacity to change after just a few is in my opinion little odd.
@@UltiMogr I mean I zero my Philos when I clean it out, also important if you’re swapping burrs to maintain a true zero point on the grinder. But in the end, I think coffee as a hobby draws in a lot of perfectionists and detail oriented folks such as myself so it’s just one of those tasks that also makes us feel things are perfectly in place.
Really appreciate you going through this whole journey with this on your own dime. Your mild concerns are really similar to what I’d be concerned with and helps me kinda simulate the initial ownership experience without dropping 1.5k and waiting almost a year! I love the look of this thing and I appreciate what Zerno is doing but I think I can wait for a future revision, thanks Spro 🤙
Could not afford time and frozen funds conditions. Thank you Mazzer for showing up on time. Adorable peace. Not looking back to all the waiting lists nonsense.
Your reviews are always a pleasure to watch
Thank you my friend, I appreciate the kind words!
Good on you to providing you opinion on it and no issues as you bought it with your own money.
Looks like a great grinder. Personally I cannot justify giving them all my $$ up front but to each their own.
I was also in the Dec. ''24 batch (SSP HU Blind, black, dark walnut). Mine arrived early about 2 weeks ago. There's so much for me to love because it's a significant upgrade for me and I do get additional flavor notes compared to what I was using. The bottom of the catch cup is magnetic and adheres to my scale, so I won't be using it for weighing. Mine also came with a dusting of test coffee. I wasn't annoyed over that. I didn't buy the case. Mine did not come with all those nice tools and I was a bit panicked during unboxing. Apparently, they did a reconfigure and now only one wrench and an Allen key are needed or so they tell me. I have a bellow from a different grinder fits perfectly so I use it instead of banging on the top and it works well. Overall, I'm very happy with it.
After you use it more, tell us more of your thoughts. I think the Z1 is a fascinating grinder.
@ I can tell you now that the ease of small grind size adjustments is tops.
Waiting your comparison with Mazzer Philos
Hmmm... for me, this was my most anticipated video of yours in ages. I feel like the Z1 could be a game changer. A perfect balance between the Niche Zero, without the plastic parts, and high-end grinders, like the Kafatek and Weber EG1. The Z1 reduces its parts to a minimum and each one made of the highest quality. That's rare. The heavy metal parts make my knees buckle. It seems to me like brilliant engineering but maybe I'm missing something? The $49 Pelican case is a non-conversation in my book. I'd pay the extra price for the Pelican and have the equipment laid out nicely rather than the grinder coming in a cardboard box. Also, perhaps I don't mind the coffee grinds in the burrs? The coffee might mitigate the smell of new metal. My concern is the quality of the grind, quality of the machine, speed, and ease of function and cleaning. I can't quite tell if the noise of the motor would be bothersome or not. If it's too loud for you, what is the solution? In future versions, can the motor be made quieter? This was a first impression video but my "impression" from watching it is that you're on the fence about the Z1. I'm uncertain as to why. Too many questions and not very many answers, but that's why it's called a "first impression" video. You need more time with it. We are all waiting with anticipation what the final verdict will be and how it compares to other grinders, yes, obviously the P64 but also to Weber grinders and other more expensive grinders. I get the feeling that the Z1 is punching above its weight class. I could be wrong. Stay awesome.
He said it's not a game-changer, but he likes it. Did you want some confirmation bias or something?
EG-1 comes with used grounds in it and so does the Kafatek monolith flat max 2. It’s for testing as you mentioned. These guys don’t have time to strip and clean unless you want to pay another $50-80 bucks. I’ll have mine with coffee in it thanks. Who care to be honest.
Yes, I'm not bothered at all by the grinds in the grinder. I might even prefer it because new metal has a smell and the grinds on the metal may mitigate the smell of new metal.
Shows the grinder was tested, no big deal!
@@BillB33525 I feel the same way.
While I like some of the ideas such as blind burrs, as a European neither Option-O nor Zerno grinders are really an option imo, import taxes make them just way too expensive. You would probably end up paying 2k+ Euros for either the P64 or Z1, so more than twice the price of a Philos.
Purchased the Z1 during the infamous Batch 4, which sold out in under 5 minutes. Delivered in May 2024. I paid $1,623 USD (shipped) with some accessories, but UPS added €311 for duties, VAT, and handling fees. In the EU, the total comes to just shy of 2k-but in my opinion, it's absolutely worth it. No other grinder at this price point matches what the Zerno offers. The Z1 is positioned at a very competitive price, with manufacturing quality and tolerances comparable to the Monolith, which costs several thousand more.
don't bother man, Optiono is much better.
@@gordon2875 debatable. I had the opportunity to try side by side p64 with SSP MP and I prefer my Z1 with blind SSP MP.
@@DKMarik I did A/B them as well w MP and Cast, and found not that much difference for me. Plus workflow, ease of use, and importantly lead time, I’d recommend people to stick with P64 at this moment.
@@gordon2875 don’t get me wrong, P64 is a fantastic grinder and set the standard. I also think the Zerno is an incredibly good one. Lead time is honestly the real issue here. Workflow is subjective, but I fully understand your PoV.
Just got mine last week.
Almost the same setup. The SSP MP and the slow feed auger.
Mine too came with coffee still left inside.
I did opt to install the slow speed auger right away. When they say slow it is really slow. I've been dosing 19g of pretty light coffee and it takes like a minute. I'm going to change it out back to the medium speed ones.
For my workflow static hasn't been really an issue. 4 squirts of water from the spray bottle and static isn't an issue. I also dose into the cup. This really does keep the mess to a minimal.
Overall I have been overall satisfied with the Zerno. I'm getting tasty shots and do find the build quality very nice. I am coming over from a Niche Zero and hand grinding and I don't find the noise that bad. It's maybe a little louder than the Niche and higher pitched.
Do you feel the cost worth what you got from the niche, or some diminishing returns coming into play?
@ For me I think it is worth it. I drink both espresso and brewed coffee. I stopped doing brew on my Niche a long time ago. The espresso I was pulling was fine on the Niche, but I have always preferred the shots I would get at shop I go to. This shop uses a Weber EG-1.
Bascially I like the more modern style espresso. Lighter body and high clarity. I can't really make those style of shots on my Niche.
Right now I think I'm right at the edge of diminishing returns. I don't think I'll upgrade to another grinder. I probably could of been happy with shots from a DF64. But I never loved the way they looked.
OMG THAT DECENT NOISE
I always appreciate your honesty! Keep it up.
I agree !
Seasoning burrs must be 100% Placebo, that TIN coating is so thin and hard, that ANY changes to the Burr geometry would instantly show up with a "no gold" grey finish.
From Wikipedia "In most applications a coating of less than 5 micrometres (0.00020 in)"
I like the styling, and If you like me need a low grinder it seems a good option, many grinders are so high.
Yeah I mean I catch a lot of shit from people for that take, but it’s one I’ll stand by when it comes to modern design and manufacturing.
Thank you and hope that you have a wonderful weekend enjoying ☕️
Thank you my friend! Have a nice weekend as well.
I would be interested in a comparison with the Philos. I'm very impressed with my Philos fitted with the I200 burrs.
Yeah I think those two grinders are pretty apt for comparison, so when the full review comes around I’ll definitely be touching on how they compare and contrast.
Great, so looking frw for comparison!
@@Sprometheus That would be amazing!
I’m also super interested in getting some direct comparisons with the Philos. I would love to see a full head-to-head comparison but I know that might not be an option
They're pretty much the same thing, considering that Mazzer saw what Zerno was doing and pretty much just made a bigger, heavier version of it that doesn't have as good alignment out of the box.
For the full review, please try the SSP HU with slow auger, i think thats the best setup for espresso ! and then compare it to different grinder if you want to
The biggest turnoff and reason I went for a philos was I didn’t feel like giving a company a 10+ month interest free loan to receive a product. Would have likely purchased one via a deposit system or actual drops, but I’ve been burned before my hobby’s that use prepay group buys and will never do that again.
No doubt a quality grinder. Just can’t really see what would make me choose it over something else at a similar or even cheaper price point🤷🏻♂️
As for the static, They say in the manual that it increases with the foam pads underneath the cup. I myself found it to have too much static but after removing the foam, it is much better. Night and day! :D
Hopefilly the static dies down with a bit more use i think new grinders / burrs often have more static.
Oh also you speculated about popcorning. The med speed auger for me had oretty much no popcorning. Unlike the Timore 078s where the auger popcorned like crazy.
I currently have a Niche Zero and while I have been following your channel for a while, just got into espresso earlier this year. I'm contemplating if this should be my end game grinder. I love its aesthetic.
I received mine in November. It is, without even a distant second, my favorite coffee product of all time -- and I've owned A LOT. I couldn't possibly be any happier with it. Is it expensive for a home grinder? Without question. Would you have a full appreciation for why it's so expensive from the moment you take it out of the box? Also without question. The Zerno Z1 sets the standard.
Ordered the Zerno, so thank you very much for these thorough impressions and lack of sugarcoating! Also went for the blind SSP MP, very curious to see what you will say a couple months down the line.
I paid $10 to get on the Waitlist but am glad I missed the order window after watching this video
I listened with headphones… does it sound a bit “high pitched/screechy”?
back to wanting a Lagom P64
------
perhaps a DF64V😳 a good pairing for a Bezzera BZ10?
Same thing here. But not so much the noise. P64 is a proven and well tested (by now) design which has been through all its trials and tribulations. Is it better? Don’t think so. Is it worse? Don’t think so either.
At that level you’re playing with minute result differences in the cup and down to personal taste palette.
Out of curiosity, what in the review makes you happy that you missed out on it?
@@azza2575 the amount of static, guessing P64 variable speed is greatly more “fun/instant” variant than mechanically swapping sugar, and the sound it made (as I could assess it via airpods pro) - of course, the DF64V is significantly worse noise 😳 but only $500… P64 though $1.7k probably “last grinder bought” 🤔
@MarcesAurelius thanks for the reply 🙏🏿
Thanks for the review. I ordered mine in November. And it's kinda frustrating to see how Zerno is positioning itself as a high-end grinder, super precise, but it arrived used, not aligned and new augur is not installed. Hope it's gonna work for a long time
@@dzholas I believe it was aligned, but I didn’t test the zero as I opened it up right away, so re-zeroed as is my practice when I take grinders apart. Also The slow auger is an option in addition to the stock medium so I wasn’t expecting it to be installed.
Great first review. Surprised you didn’t mention the fact that it wasn’t zeroed when shipped to you. I find that very surprising from a premium grinder.
I think it needed to be "re"zeroed after being open. Zerno claim it should come zeroed.
I’m sure it was likely zeroed from them, though I didn’t test that and just immediately opened it up to clean it out and re-zeroed as I do after cleaning any grinder.
The grinding so reminds me of the sound of my DF 83v
Thanks for the review! Ordered mine last month and hoping to get it in April. Upgrading from my DF54, I also have a Decent so looking forward to it!
Looks like you got the same options as I did with mine.
@@nissanguy16 I’ve heard mixed takes on the static, possibly depends on where you’re located but definitely seems to build more than my other grinders for some reason.
I’ve got the Acaia Ion Beam on mine, might’ve seen it in my pic I sent. Helps a ton so I don’t need to RDT.
@@nissanguy16Can you post that photo? I wonder how you positioned Acaia Beam on Zerno?
I am a little surprized by the lack of adjustable RPM. Some of the most fun I've had with my Lagom 01 has been playing with RPM for my espresso shots. The tastiest shots I've made were at the lowest setting around 200 rpm. Seems like at that level this should be an option.
RPM adjustment really is less impactful than the ability to change the feed rate. RPM adjustment only shifts the direction of the particle distribution. It doesn't produce less or more fines, it just means you have to grind at different settings to get the same result. I really never change the RPM on any of my grinders that have that setting. This is a perfectly reasonable design choice imo.
Oh I'm very excited for the Z1! I'm glad you finally got yours, I hope it was worth the wait.
One note, the micron adjustment does not work the same way as Comandante, describing burr gap, so the particle size will not be what the dial reads, although trying to make it alight might be an interesting test. It is describing burr movement, which doesn't correlate exactly to that size of article. The Comandante method is nonsense because there will always be some level of misalignment and movement under load making the gap fluctuate. However, you can know how much a turn of the dial moves the burrs apart with much more precision.
I'm super happy with my Zerno. Got it back before they introduced the portafilter holder. There was an issue with the original auger, but they came out with a new one that fixed the problem. I started with the HU burrs, but switched to the CV2s. We do pour over and espresso. It seems to work well for both. The only issue I have is with static. I got the portafilter holder, but there's too much static for that to work. Just like the video, coffee goes everywhere at the end. Other then that, I'm super happy.
I kept going back and forth between the Lucca 75 (which I know you reviewed) and Z1 right around this time last year. I went with the Lucca after realizing how long the wait for a Z1 would be, and I’m glad I did. The Z1 is a BEAUTIFUL machine, and I’d love to try one someday day, but I get a porta-filter full of static-free grounds in under 3 seconds, super quiet operation, and an absolutely fantastic shot. Definitely not the grinder for someone who wants filter-focused burrs or wants to experiment with different burrs though.
Good call on the Milwaukee fastback.
Even though price doesn’t compare, I would like to know how you compare this to cheaper options like Timemore Scuptor and Chinese products like Barsetto Bag E6 / Gevi Grindmaster and all the DFxx variants.
i've have the z1 for about a year and a half. I'm surprised they haven't reduced wait times...
I just went to go buy a used Zerno from the 2023 August production run and it was holding 7 grams of retention when I put it to espresso settings and then spat out an extra 7 or 8 grams when I switched it back to 600microns.
Then I could only get one screw off when I tried to inspect the grind chamber. The ither screw was frozen/the supplied tool could not twist it off without giving way. Im concerned about this in a longevity mindset. It was much quieter than I thought it would be though.
Also was shocked by how slow it ground as I'm used to grinding 20g of espresso fineness within 7.5 seconds.
Secondly, my Weber Blind shaker was repelled by the base instead of centering to it so I guess manufacturers all flip their magnets whatever way they feel like? Was shocked to see my blind shaker doing the opposite of centering haha
Do you notice any meaningful differences in the cup between the Zerno with blind SSP MPs and the P64 with non-blind SSP MPs?
@@Bassplanes I didn’t do any direct side by side, but I wouldn’t say there’s any noticeable difference thus far. But I want to dig a bit deeper into that question.
@@Sprometheus Please do. I think a lot of us are on the fence between the P64 and the Zerno.
I think the bigger difference maker is the customizable auger and pre breaker.
I was surprised with the static, I only do one spritz and static is basically zero for me
Thank you for the insightful and well-crafted review! I’m currently deciding between this model and the Lagom P64. Would you say there’s a noticeable difference in taste or body between this and the Lagom? Additionally, in your professional opinion, does one offer better alignment and particle distribution compared to the other?
Someone else asked this question and he responded that there is no discernible difference in taste but he hasn’t done a back to back yet.
I've had mine for over a year. Customer service and the Discord are fantastic resources. Yes it is a bit loud when it's just running without grinding, but that just doesn't bother me personally.
If you are going to explore this grinder, Id like to know your thoughts on other burrs.
Feeling okay, Spro? Maybe a little under the weather when you recorded this? Hope all is well!
He's really mad about that paper manual that he was just going to throw in a junk drawer for the rest of his life.
Thanks for the video, any follow ups will be greatly appreciated as I have a preorder due around April
The Gevi grindmaster has similar features plus an ionizer and quieter motor i believe but not made in USA and likely not as great quality control or build qiality. Also might not be officially available yet my friend has a test unit and it seems pretty decent. First time i tried it with their stock burrs i didnt love it. But 2nd time after ut had more seasoning i think it was pretty good it can also take all the ssp 64mm burrs but probably not blind ones which i dont think is that big of a deal.
I think some burrs DO benefit from seasoning others not quite so much. I thought the ssp MP burrs maybe get a little smoother after years of use but that could just be due to my water or coffee practices changing over time.
Thinking of purchasing a specialty coffee subscription. Have any unbiased or affiliated suggestions and tips?
Are you thinking espresso specific? Because even though I don’t run with LM machines anymore, their home espresso subscription was the only one I’ve ever used, and I generally was pretty happy with the options and variety.
@@Sprometheus I brew mostly manual pour-over (~70-50%), some espresso (pumpkin spice lattes October-December) (~25%), and some cold brew (during summer) (~25%). I rarely do French press, moka pot, and automatic drip (~10-15%). I love traditional espresso shots and I am willing to try modern coffees for pour-over.
I think high-cost 64mm grinders are an uncomfortable segment of the market - slow and screechy (particularly ssp mp), with the same burrs other/cheaper platforms, and only a bit less money than used examples of 98/100mm. Personally, I think there’s good ROI on bumping up to one of the bigger options. I had a p64 and later moved to secondhand M4/01/MC6/max2 and each of theme were much more pleasant in everyday use.
It's so odd that Mazzer explicitly tells you not to RDT in the manual and that Zerno includes an RDT bottle. I haven't had issues with static with the Philos so it doesn't bother me that I'm "not allowed".
Yeah I wonder why they say that. I plan on using some small amount of rdt with mine anyway.
@@MeggaMortous I can only suggest giving it a chance. I haven't missed it on mine and I'm mostly on 0-0.1g retention without static mess.
@@DeferFuncClose that sounds nice but how about static?
@@MeggaMortous for some reason, I'm not really experiencing static issues with the Philos. That being said, I've only been using it for a month. So far so good.
@@DeferFuncClose I've heard static is being avoided by the loop the magnet+cup+metal base creates. So in a way a passive static discharger. Just wanted to ask you from personal experience, thanks.
From all the videos I saw online and written content I wasn’t aware an 18 gram dose would take 45 seconds 😭 other auger pre breaker grinders do almost 2 grams a second! Maybe the only thing I wish is Grinder had was a deioniser, but I can put up with a few things because everything inside is built really really well.
@@rohanlg790 the thought process behind the slower feed is a more consistent grind and reducing the possibly of re-grinding as well. They had a fast auger in earlier versions and it’s now no longer in production. Not sure of the reasoning. But I haven’t tested the particle distribution against the slow auger, but curious to see if there’s a noticeable difference beyond the particle test.
@@Sprometheus it’s just interesting to me, that you can put 64 mm burrs in other commercial grade coffee grinders, and they make amazing coffee and grind 18 g in 5 to 7 seconds. I get its focusing on grind distribution, but if the coffee shop is delicious and the grinding time is a quarter, idk, is there much benefit going that much slower ? The difference should be massive to justify four times the grinding time. I just don’t think it is.
Im curious to know how the slow feeder works and if you notice any major differnces betwen the Zerno Z1 and P64 i didnt think they were very different taste wise with medium auger and blind vs regilar ssp MP burrs in the p64 set to a similar rpm. With the slow feed auger, I think Zerno may be better, but you can probably achieve something similar by manually slow feeding into the p64.
I have a Z1 and have had it for probably a year or so. I use it almost daily as it's my office grinder. I also took this opportunity to try out the MP V1 Brew burrs. I upgraded to this from the Acaia Orbit, and I also have a P100. It is on the whole, better than the Orbit, though the Orbit is fantastic. The Orbit has a far superior workflow, but I think the level of customization on the Z1 outweighs the small issues with mess, and the lack of an auto-purge feature. The blind burrs and slower feed rate/pre-breaker do make a difference in my experience, though it's not really as much as I'd hoped. I still find myself thinking that in most cases, if I have a truly special coffee, I'm going to grind it with my P100 because the potential on that is just significantly higher. I have come to the opinion that if you are someone who is in the market for a high end 64mm grinder, you should just save some extra money and buy a 98mm. All told, the Z1 for me was roughly $1500. Nowadays, a used P100 goes for about $2k. The P100 is broadly superior to any 64mm grinder out there, and I would just recommend people save a few hundred more for the bigger burr platform. In my opinion, these high end 64mm grinders really don't produce much better coffee than your DF64 types. In the 64mm space, anything above the cost of a DF64 is purely workflow or aesthetic related. You pay a premium for better aesthetics, and better workflow. I totally get this as someone who has used cheap 64mm grinders and found the workflow to suck the joy out of the experience, but if you have the money to spend on a titan grinder, get a 98mm option instead. That gets you both the better workflow, and ultimately a really noticeable increase in realized potential in the cup.
I was eyeing the Z1 but went with a DF64V that was the V1 and open box so I got it for $350 no tax and free shipping and so far it's been an incredible value. The only thing I wonder about with in cup performance is the alignment, as objectively spending the extra for a Z1 or P64 is mainly to get that super tight and permanent alignment that is built in to the grinder with tight tolerances, along with build quality.
The 98mm is better for espresso or filter?
You make good points but in my experience the 98mm department is just so ultra clarity and clean, I really think some coffee especially the darker roast coffee would taste weird. But the lighter ones sure would benefit a lot.
98mm is superior in what way?
(Not sarcastic tone, honest inquiry)
@@randyhou8522 Yes the alignment is definitely an issue but it's marginal unless the alignment is crazy bad. I've had aligned and unaligned grinders and I can't tell that much of a difference. If you're that worried about it you can align it yourself anyway. NBD.
Taste, quality and workflow wise is it closer to the P64 or the 064S?
@@rachidt2764 I mean workflow closer to the 064S as it’s another vertical, quality in terms of materials the z1 and the P64 are very close in my opinion, but taste is hard one to speak on until I run the same burrs through each.
I want this but mainly for filter
Wait until you hear how quiet the Varia VS6 is.
@@CasualCoffeeConnoisseur I haven’t heard that one yet. We’ll see if I end up with one.
The grounds in a new grinder trend needs to stop, I feel like it's normalized to the point where a manufacturer of what seems to be a hand-build precision machine doesn't expect to be called out for it by a public figure. I just bought the E65S GbW, you know how much it costs, and I had to clean it before use. I expect to receive a clean machine. My Philos arrived completely clean, I was very pleased.
@@Jaroslav. For me I get a lot of loaners and machines that come direct from other users, but when I buy a grinder I do expect it to be cleaned out. The last grinder I bought, the P64 had a little grinds in it too. It’s just that little extra bit of polish that makes a difference.
I doubt Mazzer runs coffee through their grinders before shipping
I think they do, at least they did with my previous grinders.
I think complaining about a few grinds is really nitpicky and inconsequential. There are real issues on grinders to complain about.
@@paul--b they do, I don’t know of any manufacturers that don’t. But I don’t agree that it’s nitpicky. It’s more than fair to have expectations of a clean, brushed out grinder when you buy a premium product. It’s part of the customer experience.
I’d argue having a grinder with chipped paint out of the box is inconsequential to the actually grinder function, but not the expectation a customer would have.
And yes, there is more to “complain” about when it comes to grinders, but this is about painting a full picture from the out of the box experience forward. The other things will come, or be added upon on the coming months.
Seems like testing your hypothesis on burr break-in would make for a good future video.
I actually did one with conical burrs years back. But another one with flat burrs would likely be in order in the future.
Ok but - p64 MP vs Zerno MP - is the cup different all things the same? Not the pelican case, the noise, etc. workflow and taste -That’s really the what matters. Blind taste test it and let us know.
As an owner of the P64, im curious why you decided to buy this grinder?
Can we get an update on the decent?
Sanremo You vs Decent?
@@sobe303 I’m actually trying to sell the Decent. Isn’t going as quick as the LMs. Personally I’d prefer the YOU.
one thing I'm a bit disappointed with that you haven't mentioned yet is the stand for the portafilter. It's a bit too high imo. If i have my decent funnel on, the spout is below the top of my decent funnel and it makes it really hard to remove the portafilter filled with ground coffee. Which means i never use the stand. I think a funnel is practically mandatory for wdt when grinding directly into the basket, so i don't get why the height seems to not be designed to accommodate a funnel. Also the magnets are reversed in polarity to my weber shaker; which obviously isn't really anyone's fault just a noticable annoyance, so unfortunately the base repels the weber shaker and I can't grind directly into it. So I have to grind into the cup provided which isn't ideal. It is also common for a bean to get stuck in the auger and never reach the burrs. and then the following morning i turn on the grinder and the bean is ground before i pour any more coffee in. This was an issue with the default medium feed auger, and then i replaced it with the slow feed one, and it continued to be an issue.
@@atavax311 At the time of filming I was still sort of feeling out the stand. Now, a week or so in I can say I’ve banished it back to the hard case where it will remain.
You’re correct. It’s too high, and if you don’t stand there and periodically shake and tap it the grinds will mound up and push into the chamber. It’s just not a convenient solution for direct portafilter grinding.
The beans getting lost in the auger is also something I can’t say I’ve experienced quite yet, but it’s fresh on my bar and I’m sure I’ll have more to say in a few months.
I have df64 gen1 white ssp cast for 3 years im looking four update which one is better is z1 our lagom p64 in your opinion
Are you going to switch your P64?
@@JuanMartinez-jp3do I don’t have any intentions to replace it thus far, but maybe down the road. Time will tell.
Thanks for your answer!
The elephant in the room question was not addressed. How it compares to the P64?
I guess it’s too early for that yet.
@@gpapa31 yeah a bit too early to say. I’ll be doing some side by sides between that and the Philos in the future.
I've been a Z1 owner for a few months. Well worth the wait. Not only the grinder is crazy good, but the people and the company behind it are a rare gem in the industry.
I dunno, it’s pretty shady to give a company an interest free loan for 10-13 months.
@@Evan_Rodgers Yep, I thought of that too when I made the payment. I convinced myself the grinder price is lower because of the cash up front. 🤔
I ordered a Philos in September and I’ve been using it a month and I doubt variable rpm would make a noticeable difference in my life. It’s also funny to see the holy grail of grinders falling completely flat once people realize it’s not a special device.
The Philos is looking better and better compared to the Z1. I love the idea and design of the Z1 but a 6+ month production time along with questionable performance really kills my desire for one. I can't imagine waiting 45+ seconds to grind 18-20gs of coffee.
How long does it take for your Philos to grind a 18-20gs?
@@bearsdidit My Philos just did a 18 g dose in about 12 seconds (light roast)
@@bearsdiditwhat’s the questionable performance?
@@azza2575 Slow grind time, loud and high pitched motor, and potentially massive static issue. I'm currently using an Atom 75 and the grinds are fluffy and I get a consistent dose in less than 3 seconds. Perhaps a single dose grind isn't for me, but the idea is fun to toy with.
Rebuilding a cremina?
@@saulocafe indeed. New series coming 2025
What surprised me the most is that it had coffee inside but it was not zeroed in. I mean just why…
They are, spro took the front off the grinder first though to clean so it’s worth a recenter.
@@Madnessinc yeah I believe it was already zeroed, but its good practice to re-zero when you clean it out.
lol, your first gripes re foam and having to brush out test grinds are pretty silly. static is a valid comment to be aware of. sounds like whats otherwise important - grind, taste, etc. is consistent with my experience.
What is your go to Trader Joe’s coffee?
I don't think I have a go-to really. They actually aren't too bad in a pinch, or when I have family over who want a darker roast. But they have an African blend that is roasted pretty dark, and is actually not too bad when dialed in.
It is not loud. My Versalab M3 is louder!
I am not impressed. It seems like people judge grinders by their look more than anything. I looked at the product page, and there is nothing, absolutely nothing about how it's built, how they make it well aligned, this kind of important stuff. But it's "sustainable", wait what? Also, at the end of the day, it's a 64mm grinder, and it's atrociously expensive. 300w and that motor noise are a bit ridiculous for this price tag.
And of course you go to the page and there is a "waitlist", I mean, do people really fall for this? It's just a marketing gimmick to make people feel they buy the new ultra rare product. Look! You're missing out, everybody wants this! If you add the µm on the dial, which I would doubt is accurate, and you end up with a bad feeling on all this.
Somehow it looks like this is the new normal, ultra expensive stuff, ultra expensive coffee, ultra limited™(but you'll get the exact same one next week). I mean, we need a cold shower.
Oh and so you know, the coffee is left in there on purpose. It's here to make you feel it has been tested. Like, of course you can test anything by running some coffee through it.
Very refreshing to hear from a channel with many followers, the BS behind seasoning. You dont season newly bought kitchen knives, power tools, wrenchs. Etc. And why waste so much coffee beans. Its a straight slap in the face expecially to an industry thats "" all about fair trade, equal rights, sustainability.
Hopefully youre happy with ypur purchase. I couldnt justify that much. Suprisingly the df54 has suprised me in taste and quality. Sold all my previous grinders just out of principle
that motor sound, foam insert, not calibrated, coffee residue, static, price, wait time and price again….way to many negatives. I think the company is great and if you have the cash, they’ll build you one but a person can spend a lot less and get 98% there
Plz compare this to a niche
Many thanks
Extremely different due to the burrs. Basically not comparable
My experience is that seasoning massively reduces static issues. Grinder genuinely sounds horrendous but apart from that it’s been a joy.
Oh. and absolutely no grounds in grinder when it arrived, like it had never been used.
Thank you for reviewing (one of my options). My first thoughts were that you would comment on the noticeable difference between blind burrs and what you (we mostly) have. I was a bit disappointed that you did not notice an uptick in flavor.
@@markw-2025 well a fuller review will be coming eventually, and keep in mind this is just a first impression.
That said, I don’t think the blind burr design really is going to make a large enough of a difference to be noticeable in the cup, I mean the addition of a small % of surface area would in my mind mean a slightly more efficient burr, but not change the flavor for the better.
Not delivering a clean grinder is criminal, for the money you're spending. My Lagom Mini was both clean and packaged very nicely in quality foam, and at 1/5 the price. The static too is unacceptable. How can it be that I've heard the designer is going for near impossible precision tolerances, but there's seemingly no consideration for static, yet plenty of other companies include solutions? It's been such a hyped grinder and your explanation of the taste is tasty, but not groundbreaking. What a shame.
Seasoning burs to me has always felt like "burn in" in the headphones world. Just a hobby myth with no evidence to back it up.
@@LaMereACaniche my personal take is it’s kind of like old car break in periods. The reasoning back then was to keep it below a certain speed to wear in any parts that had imperfections etc. then you’d change the oil and it would have a good amount of metallic shards and slivers in it as it wore in. But today, with manufacturing processes being so incredibly accurate and error free it just feels like a fallacy. To expect a pair of burrs intended to have a 1000+ lbs lifespan of grinding capacity to change after just a few is in my opinion little odd.
@@Sprometheus Could it just be a deburring effect on the sharp edges, a gentle roundening of the sharpest points?
why is everyone obsessed with zeroing their grinder? I never have. I don't care when the burrs touch. Am I missing something?
It's so the same coffee will be dialled in at the same point before and after you clean the grinder. That way you don't have to dial in again.
@@Mandragara well I have a philos, so.... I don't really need to
@@UltiMogr I mean I zero my Philos when I clean it out, also important if you’re swapping burrs to maintain a true zero point on the grinder.
But in the end, I think coffee as a hobby draws in a lot of perfectionists and detail oriented folks such as myself so it’s just one of those tasks that also makes us feel things are perfectly in place.
Really appreciate you going through this whole journey with this on your own dime. Your mild concerns are really similar to what I’d be concerned with and helps me kinda simulate the initial ownership experience without dropping 1.5k and waiting almost a year! I love the look of this thing and I appreciate what Zerno is doing but I think I can wait for a future revision, thanks Spro 🤙