The Rolex Market Integrity Is On A DOWNFALL!!
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- Its a shame to see people buying watches to continuously flip and the lack of interest in wearing watches. While I do believe in the long term investment value of special watches. People nowadays fall into the trap of thinking that everything is special. Here is my take on the current state of the watch market.
00:00 - The state of the watch market.
03:20 - Rolex Daytona 126529LN Le Mans
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It's not about the money anymore .. I don't feel like wearing a Rolex watch today as I did back in 2021 .. Feels so last season at this point .. Everyone and their dog seems to wear a Submariner or a GMT or Datejust these days in bars/restaurants/coffee shops .. Also, Rolex AD additionally produced Rolex fatigue as they treated their customers like trash while selling back doors to flippers ... Disgusting
I agree. I don't even look the way of rolex anymore because I'm tired of em. Tired of seeing them everywhere. I don't even like em anymore
Rumor is the AD’s have it to grey market dealers only in a bucket. If they wanted the Daytona, they have to buy every other watch along side it which are undesirable.
@@geno816 Yet you watch videos about them!
My dustbin man wears one now 🤣🤣🤣, there just a fashion accessory, kids and drug dealers wear them, no exclusivity to owning a Rolex 😔😢.
@@SCNMASSIVE There are fakes everywhere, Seen how many teen age girls have LV handbags?
Watch market started to go down when every single watch dealer became UA-camr, financial advisor and top market economist.
And when luxury watch 'dealers' started wearing hoodies and baseball caps
@@gimusk5667you forgot LV backpacks
@@gimusk5667, the 100,000,000 million clown dressing like a 10 year old .
Vookum’s TikTok started the downfall. Everybody saw how everybody ripped off each other
🤡
Watches are not an investment, they are an indulgence.
Nothing to worry. In another year, the flippers would destroy their own market leaving the watch owners at peace...
The Bubble burst and wearing expensive watches not safe now. Never investment and not worth buying anymore. Watch market dead now☠️💀
Watches are assets like gold, silver and art. Demand will come back of course as the value of assets will always be interesting when the governments are inflating the value of paper money.
I thought that was Bernardo Silva for a second!
😂 me too 😂
@@Lovemy911me three
Me too dude
ROLEX BAD INVESTMENTS FOR NOW
Sorry friend, but you were part of this. You should have chosen friends more wisely.
Lol dramatic
David my views on buying watches as investments & the flipping of watches are 1 buying at the right price, you might buy a watch as an investment but you have access to a lot of watches & only buy right, if I buy off a dealer I’m not buying at the right price especially if I pay a huge mark up. 2. UA-cam showed everyone dealers making & spending obscene sums of money flipping watches very easily. In my opinion showing your customers you are making that sort of money out of them is not wise long term & this has proven to be true. A good business with the right ethics can survive the market crash/dip what ever you want to call it but customers have become wise to the profit margins & are voting with their feet.
The best ROI you can have is to buy a watch you truly love and want and wear it everyday of your life creating memories with it. Otherwise, if you’re looking for an ROI stick to property, stocks, bonds, gold and so on
@@GonzoJamie absolutely, I buy my watches for pleasure as an item to treasure. Hopefully it will retain value but only my children will find that out.
Watches are not investments. They dont pay dividends, they dont generate cashflow and they have not proven themselfs over thousands of years like gold. To see anything else in a watch than just an item to wear, is pure speculation. If watches are going up in price again, it will only be the next bubble
I do absolutely agreed with your statement… as a Rolex fan and owning some pieces … the market is tired and bored from Rolex … you can see easily on the secondary market prices which keep falling…I see people wanting something more special and not what you might find everyday in the streets
A few years ago I was very interested in getting another Rolex from my AD.
However, over the 2 years of my stopping in and regularly visiting with my AD to remain on their radar, my desire to buy a Rolex has faded.
Part of this is because of the danger where I live in wearing jewelry out in public, and the other part is the AD's expressed insistance that I would need to buy "other jewelry" from them first before being considered for a Rolex.
This second part has pretty much driven a stake in my desire to buy a Rolex.
The problem is not the price. If there is a tomato can which pays 250k for this watch then so be it. I personally really like the YG Le Mans. The problem is Rolex and its distribution. Apparently this model is seldom and should go to good clients only. Why are there 21 watches on offer on Chrono 24? Too many flippers and it is not a seldom watch. Rolex still has a problem with its distribution and AD’s. As good as Rolex is ….. they have to be careful with their reputation. Falling secondary prices reflect that very well …… watches are not sold to watch lovers but flippers.
Absolutely spot on with your take! Well done 👍🏻 keep up the good work 👏🏼👏🏼
At the peak a GMT rootbeer was 24-27k, I’d rather buy a Porsche 911 with that sort of dollar, great channel and very honest unlike other UA-cam channels.
True but cars depreciate in value while some watches don’t.
@@Odatsome cars don’t either!
Good luck on buying a 911
Got one !
The Daytona 'APH' dial foolishness springs to mind... literally tens of thousands of these yet sellers trying to convince buyers that they're rare
So rare, it was only produced for approximately five years 🫣
So rare it was only production for approximately 5yrs 🫣
Every single dealer has a UA-cam channel.... And Every watch they show is a Rolex.. Flexing over the cost.... Literally showing themselves ripping off the seller and then making huge profits.
People are sick and tired of it..... There are loads of watch brands that are so much better than Rolex..... And I own one myself that I no longer wear.
Excellent comment 🙌🏻
Hi David, what was the model of the Daytona you you are talking about in this video
I'm getting calls from my local Rolex AD on a regular basis offering me watches and I just keep saying no as I don't want a watch just because it's available. I'm going to start to asking for a discount on the ones I might want as an incentive to remain their customer!!
Enjoyed the show ! Thks
Health is welth & always remember a person is only healthy & wealthy today only we all have the same 24-hour clock but tomorrow is not promised it's a gift from the universe to have another chance to live another day only so each day fill your life every day with joy happiness kindness love and with positive Energy and have gratitude for everything you have right now ❤️
Always pleased to hear ‘the voice of reason’ help hit reset on some of the madness going on.
I guess if people continue paying the premiums, can we blame dealers for taking the money though?
You don't post that often Dave but, when you do, its quality. Looking forward to the next one.
For a future video I would like to know your definition of ‘investment grade’
I couldn’t agree more. It’s not just the watch market though. It seems like every single material goods market observes this. The moment there’s money to be made, everyone just starts buying up whatever it is for the sole purpose of investment and flipping, with 0 intention to use the item for its intended purpose. It’s so annoying.
The Luxury watch market bubble has burst. What next for Rolex???🤣🤣🤣 Great video and explanation, many thanks.
Watches are not investments. They suck as investments. But I have no problem with someone buying a Le Mans Daytona for $300K or more, if they can afford it. Who I am to say otherwise.
Completely agree... totally their choice if they want to pay $245,000 above retail for a watch that is already vastly over-priced.
You make a good point about certain models never being investment grade like a datejust. I do think the Le Mans Daytona has all the makings of being investment grade. I think it would be a million dollar watch in 15 to 20 years like Patek 2499 and 1518
Thanks to share your point of view.
So, two years ago you said this [quote] ... "the best time to buy a Rolex was yesterday, second best time is today, third best is tomorrow".
Still agree with your own comments?
yes / no please, it's very simple... Yes / No.
No comment best
@@GonzoJamie ?
Yes, I still stick with what I said. So if prices went volitle in 2022 that means that everything else is wrong? If you purchased a watch 5,6,7,8,9,10+ years ago, you will still be making money on it so please let's have an open mind and not have such a narrow view that only goes back 2 years. And I still believe that buying today is cheaper than buying in 10 years to come.
@@watchcollectorsuk ten years from now isn’t “tomorrow”.
In a falling market your statement is 100% wrong (except new AD Retail).
The market won’t fall further, it’s now stable but quiet. The right watches at the right price sell quickly. 6 offers on my panda at £23,000 for example.
But no, your statement (great sales line) is very, very wrong in a falling market. It’s simple, yesterday it was £30k, today it’s £28k, and tomorrow it’s £24k. That’s a falling market. The best time to buy is TOMORROW.
The key is knowing when the market stops falling, and then is Today the best time to buy.
I now think it’s today. Buying 4 watches this year. Money where my mouth is.
But, as the example shows my friend, you’re very wrong. You’d had more credibility if you admitted it.
Stay safe - Riots or watch robbers in London … I don’t know which is more dangerous to me!
So I replied with the maths, the very powerful logic ... and some common sense about your previously oft said "sales line."
Did you delete it?
If so your credibility has just collapsed, big time.
I restate: A falling market is £30k yesterday, £28k today, and £25k tomorrow. So the best time to buy is tomorrow.
That you're now changing your mind, floundering about with "holding watches for ten years", blah blah. All rolex's are ok after ten years, that's not the point.
In life, credibility is everything. Don't loose it over childish intransigence and stupidity...
The great thing that came out of all these is being able to buy many other brands brand new at up to 50% below RRP, from the jokers who have to spend a certain amount in order to get their allocations.😊
💯 % spot on. Sadly, not many of that deal anymore.
Investing or rather speculating is so distant from watch loving. The Le Mans is a quality watch but I prefer a Speedmaster, and it has nothing to do with money. If the Le Mans was at the price of the new Speedmaster white, I would still go for the Speedmaster. As for speculation, it has existed for centuries. A few may make big money, but most will lose their shirt. Having said that, I think the modern Rolex rage is fading. I recently bought a 1963 vintage sportspiece in exceptional condition. Will it go up in value ? Maybe. Am I interested in selling ? No.
Yea man I’m with you
In essence if the manufacturer decides his price and then the market immediately decides six times that price you must think something doesn't add up , if that was a vintage item and you are coming at it 50 years or so after yes things can change market value but if that change happens immediately your know its made up.
Rolex has destroyed its exclusivity by over production chasing profits. What a shame.
I’m not surprised that the narrative from the grey market dealers is all the same.
The Rolex market is returning to where it was pre covid a small premium for select sports models normally £1/2K generally steel models or certain dial combos or bezel such as the green bezel sub.
I bought a GMT II SS in 2007 because I wanted one, from an AD. Just purchased a SS DJ41 fluted on jubilee with mint green from an AD because I wanted one and I only got this I believe as I register for a green motif on oyster with fluted in 2022 and i got an email 6weeks ago to say it was discontinued naturally I was disappointed and was given the opportunity to register for the DJ however this did not put me to the back of the queue I found out, and had a call two weeks later. now just waiting for an OP 41 green again because I liked it luckily the exhibition model in store help my decision to go with it, obviously a customer watch with white swing tag 😂. I’m confident I will get that this year.
Guess they like the exhibition back with the 24hr counter and red 100 on the tack bezel. Remember the msrp was only 53k usd , not exuberant $ amounts. As a car dealer would say, " there's a ass for every seat" ! Eh?😅😅😅
Spot on David. 100%
Imo the really interesting pieces is not the ones currently priced hugely over retail, but some of the rare and still not appreciated models. I'd buy a Kudoke 2 over a Datejust every day of the week. Discovering pieces like that is what's keeping me in this hobby. If the whole thing was about flipping steel Rolexes I'd be done within a year, max.
It's the bay effect, what with all the online selling platforms for watches. One person uploads a watch and asks for X over retail, then the next lemming just copies the price and before you can say "Rolex was sooo last year darling" there's 50 of the same watch sellers asking stupid prices.
Nailed it!
And just for you to know, it will be a auction piece for maybe over $1 million And for you to see one, it will take maybe 1 million years ,, and all the 50 watches that you see in Coronado 24 they are copies of maybe one simple only
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
anyone can list a watch at any price......if it sells at that exagerated price, then that is the market value for that watch, at that particular moment in time. over time those folks will be in the red.
Everything about Rolex specifically and certain other similar watches is pure madness for sure, they do very little changes and people go crazy, this year being a prime example!! Prices have really levelled up in comparison to the extreme prices of two years ago. The danger element to wearing one in the UK these days is also key to putting certain people off buying expensive 'hot' watches.
Haven't seen you in a while hope you and the family are well!!
Watchs are for wearing and if you buy the right one than maybe you might make money over many years.
Good Video David.
In 5 years SS Daytona retail will be £20k it'll never be more obtainable than buying now through non AD.
The Rolex Le Mans is not just an aesthetic difference. The movement is different from the other Daytona models. It is a standout.
Sure is and sad part is 99% of the ones in the wild won’t ever see any wrist time ….
Yea his take is bizare, the Le Mans is arguably one of the most unique / limited in Rolex's history
Untrue..they made less 6263 in gold.
One of the most amazing things that I don’t understand is why people that don’t know anything about Cars / Automobiles and haven’t even been in a track are crazy about the Daytona ! Woman using men watches …. What’s is happening?…
Only the super rich buy that watch so it's not even close to the "normal" market.
Watches aren’t investments, unless you also view stamps as an investment. Capital assets, sure…investments…not in my opinion. This comment does not constitute investment advice.
I agree... watches are to be enjoyed for fun not for an investment like an investment portfolio, ISA or pension.
People might be asking silly money for the Le Mans but are they actually getting silly money for them?!
Anyone can ask whatever they want for a watch but actually selling it for that amount is another thing entirely.
Precisely. They can ask a million dollars. Who cares? I mean, so what if they ask for a million. When they actually sell it, it’s what they actually were able to get for it that matters.
I thought you were Bernardo Silva for a minute.
How many of them are out there for sale? What about you selling a 5711/1R over $200,000 when the market was crazy? Is it different now? How many of those Nautilus were available? You had 2 of them for sale at the same time.
When greed, stupidity and new money combine - crazy things can happen.
I have 2 tags a breitling and my favourite which is a panerai luminor base, I could sell all these and buy a submariner, so I can be asked .... is it real??, I buy what I like and that's it, granted I do fancy a deepsea but I'll get it when I can afford to loose money but when I do I'll love it
I blame Rolex and their manipulative sales tactics as well as their constant revisioning of classic models
I bought a Rolex banana and probably over paid but i dont know anyone else who has one.
The yellow one will never sell.
The Muppet gang boiler room grey market dealers will never be wrong you just have to pay! lol
Superclones baby ❤️😜
The watch game is simple. Buy one very considered quality watch and enjoy it. Make memories with it. Travel with it. Wear it during significant life moments. There's no need for huge collections. It's abhorrent. That's been the crux of the downfall. Too much greed, acquisition and flip fury. True horologists are going nowhere 😊
Are the buyers of this watch worried about the value or they just wanting the watch because you can’t get it anymore . If they have that sort of money do they care ?
it's cus everyone and their nan suddenly became dealers, scrambling over 5% margins on items anyone can source by themselves
Sir you are so right ❤Nicola
In 95% of the existing watches there is nothing that can be qualified as an investment piece. If someone is a true investor, watches should be the very last thing you need to look at 😊
A lot of these people are not investing. They are speculating.
The problem is people who think watches are investments . Buying from grey market dealers is stupid . Rolex is the most copied watch buying from a grey market dealer is asking to be scammed. A wise man once said a fool and his money are easily parted.
TSWMIFD 💀💀💀
Floating
So basically Daytona Le Mans is still below OP41 "Tiffany" (highest) asking prices. I think Daytona is much better deal than OP41 "Tiffany" ever was :D
I remember op41 Tiffany at £50k, saw one retail last week unworn/stickered £15k 🥳
I remember op41 Tiffany at £50k when discontinued, saw one retail last week new/unworn £15k 🥳
There are a few reasons in my opinion.
Lack of Enjoyment in Buying Rolex: The process of purchasing a Rolex isn’t always enjoyable for people. In fact, it is borderline traumatic! Unlike other brands, Rolex doesn’t offer the immediate gratification of buying something readily available like an Omega or Grand Seiko for instance.
Scarcity Perception: Rolex produces a significant number of watches each year, which challenges the perception of scarcity. Maintaining an aura of exclusivity becomes difficult when there’s no true scarcity.
Stagnation and Lack of Innovation: Rolex’s design and features have remained relatively consistent over time. Like Harley Davidson did in the past, they continue producing similar models repeatedly. However, this lack of innovation can lead to tired consumers. Nowadays, wearing a Rolex might even be considered cheesy or outdated, kind of like riding a Harley!
In order to thrive, Rolex may need to adapt and evolve to meet changing consumer preferences.
Again as I said many times before you didn’t make enough research regarding that watch the (Daytona Le Mans) because if you would you wouldn’t say what you did say because you would know better
An angry Lemans owner 😊
🇵🇸 Palestine 🇵🇸
Do you believe in buying low and selling high. You're part of the problem. I have only ever bought watches that I love and don't have any intention of selling them and never buy with the thought of investment.
Very good advice on investing in watches. I come from the school to buy what you can afford and want to wear. The safe queen collector is just another form of hoarding assets with large sums of money.
I agree I think that’s why Rolex discontinues models that trade extremely high above Msrp to stop the authorized dealers from doing SHADY UNETHICAL SHENANIGANS ROLEX IS A PRESTIGIOUS BRAND AND DONT WANT TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR
This Daytona Le Mans is the only one with a special movement of 24 hours chronograph (actually the only one ever made in the world so far) also a Paul Newman indices last time seen Back in 1989 so I’m sorry it is pretty special Also, as only 100 anniversary edition+60 anniversary of Daytona
Whether its 30 minutes, 1 hour, 24 hours or 60 hours, its not the ‘special movement’ that decides the length but the dial and basic cogs.
When you say only one in the world that does 24 hours…, singer reimagined with the agengraphe movement does 60 hours, centrally on the dial.
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Agreed, that is a pretty special watch. But it’s still just a watch. 😂
The moment you started talking about investing in watches was not a good moment. I like watches because I love watches. I don’t view them as an investment.
Sorry, I meant to give a comment on it
Palestine 🇵🇸
I'm going to keep this really narrow (not short). As a longtime collector and marginal business investor, I believe investing is a VERB. If you are not an active investor, dealer, or retailer, you will not make significant money. Long-term holds can only be maintained with other shorter gains. 20-year hopes and projections are not reasonable for a manufactured product whose value is based on current cultural behavior. Past results indicate that watches, with the exception of a few, will naturally decline in value over time. Buyers will gravitate to new models, older watches will be forgotten, the hoarding culture will be marginalized, and avid collectors will continue to be niche and particular when it comes to purchasing. Enjoy your watches and enjoy collecting knowledge about horology. The more you know about horology, the better you will spend your money and get something valuable and unique.
The Daytona Le Mans have a special movement unique only for this piece (a 24h chronograph FaceTime ever made in the world )also a 100 in red (ceramic) For the 100 anniversary+the 60 anniversary of Daytona(it’s celebrate 2 anniversaries Extremely unique ) and probably a one off occasion +a Paul Newman (dial from the1989) And the second model ever made with a display back(and the only one on white gold) So yes it is exteriorly special And first time Rolex Release a special piece that run less than a year ever (8 months actually)
still not worth 5xMSRP, sorry.
And at the end of the day, it's still only just a Rolex, the beginners' and new money people entry level luxury watch 😮
Stop talking up your own watch. The released a yellow gold followed by possibly platinum or titanium too.
24 hour chronograph is nothing special, 60 hour automatic chronographs with instant jumps are available in far superior finished movements.
If you focus on a watch as an investment there are a number of factors that need to be considered. Cost of the investment, resale and cost of ownership. Dealers need to make a living so my expectation is the delta between cost and resale is ~15..20%. The cost of ownership is a key factor since a watch investment only makes sense over the longer term. By cost of investment a large part of this would be interest earned if the money was invested instead.
For me owning a luxury watch is to do with the watch (not an investment) something I love and can enjoy rather than money in the bank. If I need to sell it one day, I'll get my money back (hopefully). But, that's a secondary consideration.
Le Mans has new movement, shortest production ever, and nobody knows how many were made! Marcelo got his from AD hit the jackpot! This watch will be worth over $1 Million one day at auction with ease and anyone who thinks otherwise, is a delusional fantasist! It's selling on the grey right for $350k right now!
Love my Omegas more!
A third of the market is Rolex. Mass produced. Roberic lines assembling machine made parts. Great quality, but not artistry. There are hand made watches still out there, that do cost hundreds of thousands. It makes sense those are potential investments, like art. But I struggle to see how a mass produced brand, can be scarce or art. I own a Rolex and love it. In the same way I enjoy my BMW. Both well built mass produced machines. Both incredibly common.
Where is the upside for that watch from £250,000 absolutely madness, but that's the game some play
Nobody have this watch on sale right now it is extremely difficult to get
I have a Platona
Nobody cares to pay these asking prices. Just desperados looking for tomato can eaters.
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
David i generally like your videos but i must disagree with you on this one. I know you will stick to your opinion but my question is, when this watch reaches 1 million dollars as the Paul Newman watches often fetch, will you come back on here and admit your mistake?
Watches these days are like rich boys Football stickers 😂
Hi David, as a proud owner of the Le Mans, and a big fan of yourself and your channel - I would like to dispute your comments. I do not agree, though I respect and value your opinion. As a fellow UA-camr, I would welcome the opportunity to livestream with you and set out my reasons as to why the Le Mans is going to be a $1 million watch.
This has to happen!!
Why stop at $1 million? It could be worth $100 million one day!! /s
Just sell it and stop talking about it, you’ve probably never worn it out the house as you’re so proud of it.
Just sell it and move on with your life, you’ve probably never even worn it outside of your house as you’re so proud 🥹.
@@SCNMASSIVE if you watch Marcelo’s livestreams in Tokyo, you’ll see him riding bikes, cooking in his restaurant, partying at 6am and so on - all with the Le Mans on his wrist.
I'm sure you are a canny buyer for your own "investments" given your experience. As a dealer you were as happy as the rest to chase up the market when it seemed there was no top (as a long term stock market investor I knew there's always a top) and I don't remember any video telling people not to pay silly money when the silly money was being spent. You went along, and if circumstances were to bring about the madness again you would do the same as you did then.
The Le Mans Daytona is an extreme outlier - full white gold on bracelet, *actual* Paul Newman dial, unique 24hr movement, heritage for the 100yr anniversary of Le Mans. There are merely a handful of these watches, far fewer than even original Paul Newman Daytonas. There will never be an more of them. You're underestimating how important and special this watch is.
Really dumb take.
Each to their own. I laugh at mugs who get ripped off buying expensive watches. Spend your money on shady ladies, much more enjoyable.
If someone wants to spend 300k on a watch that’s has an MSRP of 50k I simply wish them continued good fortune and the best of health and love.
Life is for Living🥳🥳🥳🥳
Grey market dealers and UA-cam watch channels caused all this mess
Their time has arrived. .
Are they actually buying WG Daytona Lemans? Or are people just flying kites…
Most of the Rolex you talk about and the associated markets in them is irrelevant to most you tube viewers.
I would suggest that 95% of your viewers are only interested in Rolex Steel sports models.
A white gold Daytona is just fantasy land stuff.
Heard the Le Mans is going to $1 million - Marcelotime. Unbelievable but true ❤
Haha don’t be a lollipop sucker
Hebrew Hammer 🧱🌎🤩
I've come to the great conclusion that nothing make sense anymore. You see there's probably some young guy that makes a shitload of money easily. If you're value to be over a billion dollars, what's 250,000 quid😂
Rolex BANANA
where do i sign lol
Hi 👋 I actually like this guy but what he talking about regarding the Le Mans it is bias and it is also not true again maybe doesn’t know enough about what this watch really is regarding movement design model history behind it and the extreme limited production he’s talking about special watches usually vintage This is pretty much. Special.😁 in between you and me I don’t really give a shit 🤣 I pay retail I can always sell for more and I enjoyed the peace👍 so he doesn’t really matter my friend😁👍 but I do like his videos😁
You two should do a livestream debate of why this watch will or will not go to $1 million.
I agree. Maybe he couldn't get one and is upset. Total bias. That Rolex is truly an investment piece
What about Pateks that sell for 5 million at a charity auction?
Charities are tax write offs.
Hindsight sure is a wonderful thing huh……. The advice given by you lot during the hype hasn’t aged well.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
You can tell when the watch market started dipping when certain watch youtuber went over to dog whistle gammon politics