Yeah this is getting a little ridiculous. Like I thought would happen and even said in the video lmao, I'm getting lumped in with the bigots and ppl who want the show to end. It's incredibly frustrating because these individuals can't be bothered to watch the video or even just a minute in before commenting something untrue. It takes a minute to check my channel to see that I don't want the show to end and that I praise and critique it fairly. Just because I think this acts as a perfect ending Doesn't mean I want the show cancelled or that I'm a bigot. It's very funny that the same people stating this and that critiquing is negative, are the ones being negative and spreading lies lmao.
Peter capaldi is my favourite doctor, which doesn't mean I dislike Jodie Whittaker or ncuti gatwa, it just means I like Peter capaldi more, in fact ncuti gatwa and tom baker are my joint second favourites, and Jodie would be the best if moffat or rtd wrote her episodes, it's just that Peter capaldi had the best writers and the best companion in bill and Murray golds music
The bigots are the ones who are running the show, writing bigoted lines about "male presenting Time Lords". In fact, claiming to be woke is a very good sign that you're actually a bigot against certain groups.
Missy's ending was so perfect. It was genuinely tragic, with the doctor never knowing what she did and how she changed. Without hope, without witness, without reward.
In my opinion the 60th anniversary was the true finale the giggle felt like it was wrapping things up with the doctor retiring and finally having a family
The show should never have its grand finale. Instead, this should have been the ending for New Who and the show should gone on break. Maybe return for the 60th but after that go back to temporary hiatus.
Twice Upon a Time really could have been a perfect episode, and a nice way to tie in the entire franchise as a whole, especially if this could have been its final episode period, or at least for a very long time. I think they could have given more character to Captain Lethbridge-Stewart, rather than just have his only personality by being sexist towards Bill as he joins in on the First Doctor's sexist remark towards her. Like, give him more depth, especially as a man like him who was part of one of history's worst eras. Show him the trauma he's had from fighting in WW1, the PTSD, the longing for him to return to his own family, which will become much more impactful once he survives, and becomes joyful during the Christmas armistice, and give him some personality traits similar to his grandson, the Brig. Also, I think David Bradley's First Doctor should have been more energetic. I know that he was currently in the middle of regeneration, AKA practically dying, and that David was a much more older actor compared to when William Hartnell portrayed First, but I think adding the more loveable aspects, the charm, the goofiness would have added more fun to the First Doctor in this story, especially when he would bicker with 12th. Also, get rid of the sexist jokes, or if it was just the First really fooling around 12th just as Moffat said and based on the novelization of the episode, have a scene where the First talks to Bill in a way he actually respects her and tells her he was just fooling around. Speaking of Bill and First, I think their talk about his reasons for leaving Gallifrey and where he would go was powerful, especially their discussion about the existence of good triumphing over evil. And maybe have a scene of the First Doctor confronting 12th, while also being more fearful for his inevitable regeneration. At first, he's scared of regeneration because he doesn't know who he will turn into, but because of Testimony showing his future, First is now scared because of the person he will become. Then he finally learns to accept his regeneration after 12th saves Captain Lethbridge-Stewart by placing him during the Christmas armistice, even accepting the title of "Doctor of War" as a force of good, as the Doctor who saves lives during war. Twice Upon a Time, despite its flaws, was a pretty decent episode, and it really could have worked as the franchise's final episode. Like end it with 12th regenerating, then cut it to the end credits, and leave it ambiguous, other than the promise that the next incarnation will be the best version of the Doctor, now that he's finally moved on, and learned from his experiences through his incarnation. In fact, there's rarely any loose ends for the show at that point. The Master is dead and regenerates into Missy while she herself dies, and is only brought back by Chibnall as the Spy Master. All other companions who are alive are at peace. With the only remaining loose ends are Davros with regeneration energy and of course his Dalek empire if they did survive on Skaro, Rassilon after being deposed as President of Gallifrey, the existence of the Valeyard who was also mentioned in this episode, and of course, the Doctor's promise to reunite with Susan, which has been long overdue.
Honestly, I 100% agree with this all. Not only is Peter Capaldi my favorite doctor, but as the 12th doctor, he's the first doctor in the next cycle, meaning we have the 1st doctor of the first cycle and the 1st of the second cycle. And with everything the doctor had been through as the 11th and everything he lost and concluded with the 12th, i feel like going back to the start with so many elements would've been the perfect ending of the show. I do really think the 13th doctor/Jodie Whitaker was great, but with Capaldi, he would've been the perfect doctor to end the series off with, maybe even a bit more than Matt Smith.
No anger from me. As far as I'm concerned, the show ended after Capaldi's regeneration. I knew it would be bad after Capaldi - I just didn't realize how bad. I don't see how it can recover from the damage Chinball and RTD have done. People can criticize Moffat all they want, but I still think he's the best writer/show runner New Who had.
If it ended with "Twice Upon a Time", then this would be the biggest middle finger at the classic who ever, for already very insulting revival. How they handled the first Doctor is just idiotic and dumb. If the Show ended with Capaldi, "Doctor Falls" is the Way to go, as it is the Show should have just taken a break after the Whittaker Era
I don’t want the show to end, but I think it’s been seriously lacking since 2018. In my opinion, the Chibnall era was a complete misfire and RTD’s second era is (so far) trying and failing to recapture the magic of his first era. What the show desperately needs is someone to completely reinvigorate it with an entirely new style and approach, like RTD did back in 2005.
@ Fans would come back if RTD started writing like he did in the 2000s. His first era was the most popular the show has ever been, so if he could just go back to the level of quality he had back then the show would be a success again. Unfortunately he isn’t doing that so an entirely new creative team is probably the best option.
Twice Upon a Time is one of my favourites. Twice Upon a Time was the last good episode of Doctor Who up until 2022's Power of the Doctor and 2024's Boom. I agree with you, Doctor Who should have ended with this Series 10 trilogy finale. Better than sitting through the god awful Jodie Whittaker era. The BBC should have cancelled Doctor Who in 2020. The Jodie Whittaker era. The 60th anniversary specials and the new Ncuti Gatwa era could all have been a fever dream inside the dying 12th Doctor's mind and The Time Lords giving The Doctor a new regeneration at the end of the 2013 Xmas Special could have been a deception and the Time Lords could have given him only 1 extra regeneration.
you're right, but I think The Power of the Doctor also would've worked perfectly as an ending if we cut out just before Tennant. but, like, Series 10 is my fav series, Twice Upon a Time is my fav episode, so it's rly nice to hear someone rave about them. The handling of the 1st Doctor and Rusty are kinda terrible, but that doesn't stop it being the best. My fav ever line is 'thank you both for everything that you were to me'. illustrating how it's finished via Futurama was rly effective for helping me understand how you see it... and that's kinda tragic... I wonder if there's a way of rewiring your thinking about the show post Twice Upon a Time...
It should of ended mid regeneration or it should of ended with him on the floor and then before the end credits cuts to a shot of the huge smashed up tardis on trenzelore
Inhonestly totally agree with this. The show should have ended with the 12th doctor dying. I get regeneration and stuff but it would have been so much better if he was put to rest.
After Peter, the quality took a nose dive. It is a fact that it has alienated a lot of fans. I tried, but the new show is not for me. So I'll keep "touching grass". Cheers
12 convincing 1 to regenerate creates a causal loop, making the Doctor an inevitable being. The Doctor must save Gallifrey to become 12, who then convinces 1 to regenerate, ensuring their own existence. This fixed event causes the TARDIS to drop 13 to Earth, unknowingly immortal. The Timeless Child isn’t just the Doctor’s past but a future event rewriting Gallifrey’s history, replacing the Time War timeline with the Division timeline and tying the Doctor’s immortality to Gallifrey’s altered fate.
*For many including myself, Doctor Who did end with Capaldi...* *Everything since has been a nightmarish fever dream that will hopefully be put out of it's misery very soon!* 😮
Yep totally agree should have ended with peter Jodie and fruity gatwa have killed the show you made awesome points here man lets hope someone buys the show and reboots it from peter capaldis regeneration ripdoctorwho
Jodie could have been ok with good writing and a a real creative direction. Gatwa just isn’t good as The Doctor, and the writing isn’t really any better.
Yes this episode actually stole my idea years back albeit slightly different. I had an idea that Doctor Who could end with it going back to the beginning & therefore quite literally creating a loop. I think Twice Upon A Time was a good idea & concept, however some of it was a bit on the nose. For instance pointing out the First Doctor was sexist & very much misogynist, as well as the female Master killing off the male Master 🙄 so many on the nose hints & nods to what was to come, the whole embrace change, or change is not to be feared, all to usher in the first female Doctor.
I don't think this show should ever end, world enough and time/the doctor falls are some of my favourite episodes ever, but I don't like twice upon a time at all. Just because it could have worked as a finale doesn't make me feel like it is one. I see the giggle more as new who's finale, with the doctor finale resting it's always felt to me like it's the doctor from this story who's getting that rest.
I respect that, although I think 12 could've rested too, finally passing peacefully in the Tardis and it would've worked perfectly. I don't agree tho with the sentiment that the show should never end. I love Doctor Who and Ncuit Gatwa etc. But I only want them to continue if they have fresh ideas and new ways to take the show. Whenever that becomes apparent that that's not the case anymore, if that's 5 years, 10 years etc, that's when the show should actually end.
The only original thing the show has done since 2005 is casting a gay man as the Doctor. Everything else was borrowed from the wilderness years or was a recycled idea from decades ago, including the female doctor, which was not a "woke" idea, but a concept that had been around since the 1970s and one Big Finish had already played with in 2003. However, Jodie Whittaker's brilliant run was the closest we got to the feel of classic Doctor Who since 2005. As for twice upon a Time, it was a very insulting episode to classic fans of the first Doctor.
My mind on this probably won't budge. Like I said in the video, I don't want Who to end as I'm enjoying Ncuti. But I only want the show to continue if they have fresh and new ideas and concepts. I'd rather them end the show when they run out of things to do, whenever that may be. If it's in 2, 10, 20 years time.
@@SaammuelWhothey need get new fans of doctor who to come on board to work for the show. I know they got some new writers but they are Disney writers that worked on Loki, I wanna see the fan involvement they use to have! I got some great ideas for some episodes, if not they could be used as a spin off.
I disagree only because the Valeyard's origin and conclusion, saving the universe from Utopia & Susan's plots are unresolved. If they were then it could of ended appropriately well.
@TheGloopOfMobius It definitely does, because it defeats the point of the Doctor saving it countless times already, he might as well save it completely.
Yeah this is getting a little ridiculous. Like I thought would happen and even said in the video lmao, I'm getting lumped in with the bigots and ppl who want the show to end. It's incredibly frustrating because these individuals can't be bothered to watch the video or even just a minute in before commenting something untrue. It takes a minute to check my channel to see that I don't want the show to end and that I praise and critique it fairly. Just because I think this acts as a perfect ending Doesn't mean I want the show cancelled or that I'm a bigot. It's very funny that the same people stating this and that critiquing is negative, are the ones being negative and spreading lies lmao.
Peter capaldi is my favourite doctor, which doesn't mean I dislike Jodie Whittaker or ncuti gatwa, it just means I like Peter capaldi more, in fact ncuti gatwa and tom baker are my joint second favourites, and Jodie would be the best if moffat or rtd wrote her episodes, it's just that Peter capaldi had the best writers and the best companion in bill and Murray golds music
The bigots are the ones who are running the show, writing bigoted lines about "male presenting Time Lords". In fact, claiming to be woke is a very good sign that you're actually a bigot against certain groups.
Missy's ending was so perfect. It was genuinely tragic, with the doctor never knowing what she did and how she changed. Without hope, without witness, without reward.
Twice upon a time is my favorite episode in doctor who history.
You should say "whostory"!
It'd be my favorite too if they didn't do the First so dirty.
In my opinion the 60th anniversary was the true finale the giggle felt like it was wrapping things up with the doctor retiring and finally having a family
The show should never have its grand finale. Instead, this should have been the ending for New Who and the show should gone on break. Maybe return for the 60th but after that go back to temporary hiatus.
That really should have happened,
I've never agreed more with a youtube video before, these 3 episodes are perfect.
Twice Upon a Time really could have been a perfect episode, and a nice way to tie in the entire franchise as a whole, especially if this could have been its final episode period, or at least for a very long time. I think they could have given more character to Captain Lethbridge-Stewart, rather than just have his only personality by being sexist towards Bill as he joins in on the First Doctor's sexist remark towards her. Like, give him more depth, especially as a man like him who was part of one of history's worst eras. Show him the trauma he's had from fighting in WW1, the PTSD, the longing for him to return to his own family, which will become much more impactful once he survives, and becomes joyful during the Christmas armistice, and give him some personality traits similar to his grandson, the Brig.
Also, I think David Bradley's First Doctor should have been more energetic. I know that he was currently in the middle of regeneration, AKA practically dying, and that David was a much more older actor compared to when William Hartnell portrayed First, but I think adding the more loveable aspects, the charm, the goofiness would have added more fun to the First Doctor in this story, especially when he would bicker with 12th. Also, get rid of the sexist jokes, or if it was just the First really fooling around 12th just as Moffat said and based on the novelization of the episode, have a scene where the First talks to Bill in a way he actually respects her and tells her he was just fooling around. Speaking of Bill and First, I think their talk about his reasons for leaving Gallifrey and where he would go was powerful, especially their discussion about the existence of good triumphing over evil. And maybe have a scene of the First Doctor confronting 12th, while also being more fearful for his inevitable regeneration. At first, he's scared of regeneration because he doesn't know who he will turn into, but because of Testimony showing his future, First is now scared because of the person he will become. Then he finally learns to accept his regeneration after 12th saves Captain Lethbridge-Stewart by placing him during the Christmas armistice, even accepting the title of "Doctor of War" as a force of good, as the Doctor who saves lives during war.
Twice Upon a Time, despite its flaws, was a pretty decent episode, and it really could have worked as the franchise's final episode. Like end it with 12th regenerating, then cut it to the end credits, and leave it ambiguous, other than the promise that the next incarnation will be the best version of the Doctor, now that he's finally moved on, and learned from his experiences through his incarnation.
In fact, there's rarely any loose ends for the show at that point. The Master is dead and regenerates into Missy while she herself dies, and is only brought back by Chibnall as the Spy Master. All other companions who are alive are at peace. With the only remaining loose ends are Davros with regeneration energy and of course his Dalek empire if they did survive on Skaro, Rassilon after being deposed as President of Gallifrey, the existence of the Valeyard who was also mentioned in this episode, and of course, the Doctor's promise to reunite with Susan, which has been long overdue.
Honestly, I 100% agree with this all. Not only is Peter Capaldi my favorite doctor, but as the 12th doctor, he's the first doctor in the next cycle, meaning we have the 1st doctor of the first cycle and the 1st of the second cycle. And with everything the doctor had been through as the 11th and everything he lost and concluded with the 12th, i feel like going back to the start with so many elements would've been the perfect ending of the show. I do really think the 13th doctor/Jodie Whitaker was great, but with Capaldi, he would've been the perfect doctor to end the series off with, maybe even a bit more than Matt Smith.
No anger from me. As far as I'm concerned, the show ended after Capaldi's regeneration. I knew it would be bad after Capaldi - I just didn't realize how bad. I don't see how it can recover from the damage Chinball and RTD have done. People can criticize Moffat all they want, but I still think he's the best writer/show runner New Who had.
Moffat's gone off the rails too, unfortunately.
Doctor Who died the moment 12 started regenerating. The current iteration is Doctor Who in name only. 😢
So it's Doctor Who?
@rivwilson9330
Yep pretty much.
Cope
@@goosephillip
Soyboy!
@@goosephillip
Choke!
Great video. I agree with you because it is a perfect ending to Capaldi and the show.
For me Doctor Who did end there I haven't watched it since.
If it ended with "Twice Upon a Time", then this would be the biggest middle finger at the classic who ever, for already very insulting revival.
How they handled the first Doctor is just idiotic and dumb.
If the Show ended with Capaldi, "Doctor Falls" is the Way to go, as it is the Show should have just taken a break after the Whittaker Era
I don’t want the show to end, but I think it’s been seriously lacking since 2018. In my opinion, the Chibnall era was a complete misfire and RTD’s second era is (so far) trying and failing to recapture the magic of his first era. What the show desperately needs is someone to completely reinvigorate it with an entirely new style and approach, like RTD did back in 2005.
A new creative team and better writing, plus sacking Hatwa, could fix the show immediately. Fans will come back if it’s good.
@ Fans would come back if RTD started writing like he did in the 2000s. His first era was the most popular the show has ever been, so if he could just go back to the level of quality he had back then the show would be a success again. Unfortunately he isn’t doing that so an entirely new creative team is probably the best option.
Twice Upon a Time is one of my favourites. Twice Upon a Time was the last good episode of Doctor Who up until 2022's Power of the Doctor and 2024's Boom. I agree with you, Doctor Who should have ended with this Series 10 trilogy finale. Better than sitting through the god awful Jodie Whittaker era. The BBC should have cancelled Doctor Who in 2020. The Jodie Whittaker era. The 60th anniversary specials and the new Ncuti Gatwa era could all have been a fever dream inside the dying 12th Doctor's mind and The Time Lords giving The Doctor a new regeneration at the end of the 2013 Xmas Special could have been a deception and the Time Lords could have given him only 1 extra regeneration.
you're right, but I think The Power of the Doctor also would've worked perfectly as an ending if we cut out just before Tennant.
but, like, Series 10 is my fav series, Twice Upon a Time is my fav episode, so it's rly nice to hear someone rave about them. The handling of the 1st Doctor and Rusty are kinda terrible, but that doesn't stop it being the best. My fav ever line is 'thank you both for everything that you were to me'.
illustrating how it's finished via Futurama was rly effective for helping me understand how you see it... and that's kinda tragic... I wonder if there's a way of rewiring your thinking about the show post Twice Upon a Time...
It should of ended mid regeneration or it should of ended with him on the floor and then before the end credits cuts to a shot of the huge smashed up tardis on trenzelore
Inhonestly totally agree with this. The show should have ended with the 12th doctor dying. I get regeneration and stuff but it would have been so much better if he was put to rest.
After Peter, the quality took a nose dive. It is a fact that it has alienated a lot of fans. I tried, but the new show is not for me. So I'll keep "touching grass". Cheers
The Christmas special was barely watchable.
12 convincing 1 to regenerate creates a causal loop, making the Doctor an inevitable being.
The Doctor must save Gallifrey to become 12, who then convinces 1 to regenerate, ensuring their own existence. This fixed event causes the TARDIS to drop 13 to Earth, unknowingly immortal.
The Timeless Child isn’t just the Doctor’s past but a future event rewriting Gallifrey’s history, replacing the Time War timeline with the Division timeline and tying the Doctor’s immortality to Gallifrey’s altered fate.
*For many including myself, Doctor Who did end with Capaldi...*
*Everything since has been a nightmarish fever dream that will hopefully be put out of it's misery very soon!* 😮
Then take a break from it and wait for the next refresh😅 trust me you'll be so much happier for it
@rivwilson9330
Thanks mate, you could be right...
Although it qas awesome to get david tennant back as the 14th doctor the show should have emded with 12 being laid to rest
Yep totally agree should have ended with peter Jodie and fruity gatwa have killed the show you made awesome points here man lets hope someone buys the show and reboots it from peter capaldis regeneration ripdoctorwho
Jodie could have been ok with good writing and a a real creative direction. Gatwa just isn’t good as The Doctor, and the writing isn’t really any better.
@glentor3 nope sorry I disagree the Doctor should always be a man and not a gay man at that
They should of ended it with capaldi
Yes this episode actually stole my idea years back albeit slightly different. I had an idea that Doctor Who could end with it going back to the beginning & therefore quite literally creating a loop. I think Twice Upon A Time was a good idea & concept, however some of it was a bit on the nose. For instance pointing out the First Doctor was sexist & very much misogynist, as well as the female Master killing off the male Master 🙄 so many on the nose hints & nods to what was to come, the whole embrace change, or change is not to be feared, all to usher in the first female Doctor.
I don't think this show should ever end, world enough and time/the doctor falls are some of my favourite episodes ever, but I don't like twice upon a time at all. Just because it could have worked as a finale doesn't make me feel like it is one. I see the giggle more as new who's finale, with the doctor finale resting it's always felt to me like it's the doctor from this story who's getting that rest.
I respect that, although I think 12 could've rested too, finally passing peacefully in the Tardis and it would've worked perfectly. I don't agree tho with the sentiment that the show should never end. I love Doctor Who and Ncuit Gatwa etc. But I only want them to continue if they have fresh ideas and new ways to take the show. Whenever that becomes apparent that that's not the case anymore, if that's 5 years, 10 years etc, that's when the show should actually end.
100% agree
I totally agree!
Doctor Who finished in 1989. Everything since has been fan fiction.
I mean on some level technically kinda true? But the same applies to the audio dramas and the many book series.
The Tardis ejected the imposter post-regeneration who fell to their death and the Tardis imploded - The End.
Yes - was getting more woke and it should have ended here.
Doctor Who should never end
AGREED
The only original thing the show has done since 2005 is casting a gay man as the Doctor. Everything else was borrowed from the wilderness years or was a recycled idea from decades ago, including the female doctor, which was not a "woke" idea, but a concept that had been around since the 1970s and one Big Finish had already played with in 2003. However, Jodie Whittaker's brilliant run was the closest we got to the feel of classic Doctor Who since 2005. As for twice upon a Time, it was a very insulting episode to classic fans of the first Doctor.
Maybe you and harbo are right,but comeon maybe in 5 or 20 Years you will change of mind when there is a new doctor with new fresh ideas😉
My mind on this probably won't budge. Like I said in the video, I don't want Who to end as I'm enjoying Ncuti. But I only want the show to continue if they have fresh and new ideas and concepts. I'd rather them end the show when they run out of things to do, whenever that may be. If it's in 2, 10, 20 years time.
@@SaammuelWhothey need get new fans of doctor who to come on board to work for the show. I know they got some new writers but they are Disney writers that worked on Loki, I wanna see the fan involvement they use to have! I got some great ideas for some episodes, if not they could be used as a spin off.
Yeah, this should’ve been ending everything that came after Peter Capaldi was not Doctor Who. It was Dr. ideology.
I disagree only because the Valeyard's origin and conclusion, saving the universe from Utopia & Susan's plots are unresolved. If they were then it could of ended appropriately well.
I don’t think utopia needs to be resolved.
@TheGloopOfMobius It definitely does, because it defeats the point of the Doctor saving it countless times already, he might as well save it completely.