Don't forget to leave a like or dislike on the video! It really does help :) I'm specifically referring to the anime's interpretation of Jiren in this video. And if you enjoyed him, I'm happy :) Im not saying one can't enjoy his character.
Mark thanks because of you and your videos on dragon ball you’ve convinced my Fiance to watch the series and as a result I get to get married with a Dragon Ball themed wedding cake
Pound-For-Pound TOP’s issues were a result of Super’s main overarching issue in a nutshell. *Production* - One of the series directors leaving mid way through the arc to work on the movie - Toei not trying to help the quality of the series - Terrible scheduling and planning per episode It was just a mess I liked most of the TOP but man it could’ve been so much better than what it was.
@@MrTorsation476858 Like, I wouldn't even mind Jiren having a shitty backstory as much as I do if they had just revealed what it was from the get-go rather than hyping up the source of his big number and wrapping him in mystery the moment he's revealed. They could let Vegeta and Freeza learn about Jiren's past, and Vegeta could get enraged that his planet got blown up and he isn't a Super Saiyan God of Destruction, or maybe Freeza tries getting a rise out of him by promising to wipe out more villages or pretending to be the one who orphaned Jiren.
@@MrTorsation476858 It's not even that, Jiren was beaten in an un-even fight once and that's it...Even carbon copy shonens do that better, how is that at all entertaining or believable? One loss which resulted in no death causes Jiren to be a sociopath? Why? Did he care about power at that point? He never seems to care about anything though so that's kind of out the window... There are other characters like Jiren but every single one of them is better.
Jiren would give a way better moral dilemma to goku if they had a very similar character arc throughout their lives. It would make goku contemplate if he was really the good guy in the situation
Stick Nicks well if anything it would be better if jiren was just goku but with a better sense of good. And goku is kinda a selfish hero he does good things only if they would benefit himself and protect his friends
@@cherrycoyote55 He's not a bad person, its been stated that he's pure hearted, he's just a bit selfish for his goal, just like every successful human being.
@JJC Naruto and HxH are complex stories while DB is just fantasy, fighting and comedy like Gintama, you are asking to change a show's genre, which is stupid, you should watch other series of your preferred genre instead of trying to change others.
*Jiren's Backstory:* My family and master died, that's why I'm evil. *Infinite's Backstory:* I was always evil, but I was defeated and insulted once, that's why I'm extra evil.
@@ryanm.8720 shadow was created to be evil but the fact that he was created evil and not born evil really has room for character growth. It’s nice to see an evil bot turn into a semi nice guy when he needs to.
I like the idea of having the stereotypical alien as a design, but other takes on stereotypes (Buu, Dabura, Piccolo) turned out much better. Jiren is so awful
I hate Jiren. He's so boring. Like, Hit's whole character is "I'm a strong assassin," but he at least looks cool and has cool powers. Jiren has LESS personality, looks lame, and has no cool powers other than "I'm so tough nothing works on me."
Seriously, idk how they make the MAIN "villain" looked like that. I mean if you cant make a good backstory for him just makes him look like a total badass (DBZ broly is the best example for this)
@@mikechrist9699 dbz broly was just a walking power house but looked cool and his voice for the second movie was cool. Jiren looks like a guy u see on the side walk taking a walk with a skin tight track suit on. There’s nothing intimidating about him
@@kripticxtj6499 Cmon man they definitely gave broly some personality. My man was evil and sadistic. Some of the things he did and said just made him all the more likable. Like remember when he said, "Is that another word for coffin?" He definitely is a walking power house but power house with at least SOME personality.
I like the idea more that he’s a symbol of absolute overwhelming strength, an unclimbable wall- the idea that Whis keeps telling Goku that there will always be someone out there stronger than you They just fucked up his backstory is all
@@MatthewBrown-il3ct Himself, Goku's drive comes from a need for self-betterment. Unlike Vegeta who trains as hard as he does in order to become #1, or Gohan who trains solely in order to protect Earth, Goku trains to become better than he already is. His fights are merely ways for him to test himself rather than prove himself. There's a reason why during the same 7 years of peace between Cell and Buu, Goku achieved a whole new form while Vegeta remained relatively stable and Gohan became weaker. He has never once shown a need for a reminder.
I still don't hate Jiren. And I see his heel turn at the end as him at his breaking point. For so long he must have thought that nothing could best him, that no one could threaten him. Then Goku comes along and shatters that. It breaks him and in that moment he is fueled by rage that his perception of himself is gone. So he attempts to kill Goku's friends to reaffirm his belief in himself. Everyone has a breaking point, everyone flies into a rage at some point in our lives. Even if that rage is far beyond our normal demeanor. And we do or say things we don't mean.
If he's stronger than Belmont, why did he even participate? Goku wasn't stronger than Belmont, and he wouldn't have been if Jiren didn't fight him. Toppo wouldve been able to steamroll most of the competition, anyway. Base Form or not.
@@minimonkeymasher8888 you do realize that's the dumbest thing i've heard yet right? "why would you put your strongest fighter on the team?" BECAUSE HE THE STRONGEST lmao not putting him on the team would've been a dumber mistake
One Thing Dragon ball is Anime that follows a Kind of Storyline of Fights evolving Fights to resolve Things. Jiren from the Beginning was stated that is not a Villain. In Universe 11 Jiren is a Warrior a Police a Troop he Saves Lives by defeating bad guys , Villains or any other Kind of Bad People. That is the Pride Troopers. The Tournament Decide who Lives. The Tension was always there because of the Rumor of Someone that is Stronger than Beerus and Beerus is Stronger than Goku. Their Lives are on the Line because they Can be Defeated and erased at any Moment after Jiren Came out. One Thing is Impossible to everyone one have a Great Background or Backstory in Real Life and Animes Copy Real Life but they Put Fictional Things in it. Jiren Doesn't Have a Great a Big Backstory is Story is a Little Tragedy Story. But he Have Something that is Character is Really good at and that is his Strength and Power that No one have. He is Originally not a Villain so he never was Suppose to be Like Frieza or Cell or King Picollo because all of the Bad Guys are Not Totally Equal. Jiren Made us feel Like we are Doomed since we follow the Story of Goku of the Universe 7. Is Impossible to Have a Character that is Good in Everything I mean Everything. That one Thing that Jiren is Good is Enough. Is Batlle Skills and Power. Don't go watch a Movie or Anime just for Story and don't watch just for Fights.
I like to think of Jiren as Goku if Goku's never had the dragon balls. What would Goku's personality be like if the death of his friends were permanent?
I can only describe Jiren as "Pro Wrestling Booking - The Character". He's the end game, the main event. But this is only established because other characters we are familiar with are given huge power creep (the rub) only to be immediately jobbed to Jiren.
The first time we’re introduced to Kahseral, he’s saying he can’t save the universe because he’s busy saving a cat. He should have had a bigger role. Not overwhelmingly strong, but the smartest and most crafty of the PTs. He should have been the 17 of their universe.
Very interesting. Oddly enough when you explained the flaws in the plot, I enjoy the idea of writing that’s different for the sake of it. They’ve clearly written plot lines that were inspired by the story writing themes you pointed out, so I think this awkward story line was intentional, which to me, is exciting.
Of all places i did not expect to see John Hill in the comment section of a dragon ball video... .....and just when I thought he couldnt get any cooler.
First off your channel is phenomenal. I think something to consider is that this was kind of the point. It's one of my favorite arcs because it's just a sporting event. Didn't need articificle growth and fake scary tensions. Was just a chance for my favorite players to make cool plays. Jiren I think would of been less fun if he had a personality. He was supposed to be a neutral wall. I think he uniqueness would of been lost if he was evil and needed to be defeated or would of made less fum.seeing cool.shit if we liked him to much.
They should have combined jiren and Toppo. A super strong but quiet warrior motivated by justice, until he realizes he might lose and abandons everything he valued to become the next God of Destruction.
Terrible or not you can’t deny the fact that he commands presence, something most antagonists fail to do. His fight’s and his scenes alone still bring hype on rewatching dbs or watching others react to the show. Something that the other arcs fail to do on second or third rewatching.
Even before the start of the ToP, you feel his presence when Goku first meets him. Right a way you think "How the fuck will Goku even beat him?" And you keep thinking that til their 3rd fight, but even then Goku alone still cant beat him.
Andres ACOSTA he commanded presence only briefly to me because he lacked any other qualities. I feel as though Madara from Naruto was him done better. Both were stupidly op in their series but Madara had personality, a goal, hype and a good backstory. Jiren only had hype
One Punch Fish zamasu did not command any presence, regular zamasu got tossed around like a rag doll only being saved by immortality and black wouldn’t have been a threat if goku and vegeta worked together. Like wise merged zamasu was injured by kaio ken goku and fodderized by vegito and trunks. Jiren on the other hand kept on impressing viewers with his strength and putting on a good show. His fight against goku brought down all streaming services that’s how hype he and his fights are
carlackersii tbh madara is ruined for me thanks to black zetsu bs bc ig made madara look like a huge moron being used so casually. It devalued his achievements bc it was all “planned” idk but ever since black zetsu revelation on rewatches I don’t get as hyped anymore bc i know that he is getting played just as badly as everyone else. Tho i will admit the two meteors scenes are still the exception as that shit will never get old lol
The only time I thought Jiren's character was interesting when he tried killing Goku's friends. It was one of the few times he showed actual character.
A way to start improving Jiren's character is have Universe 7 come up against opponents that they struggle with, have then disengage through various means only to run into Jiren, actively looking for opponents to "get this over with quickly", who proceeds to no sell every technique that made Universe 7 struggle.
Just finished the Video. Amazing as always Mark! Hey, for the next one, could you do Buu. He’s always been my favorite and I’d love to see an analysis like this done for him.
I think one of the best examples of suspense is the show Ladybug and Cat Noir. If you don’t know, a boy and a girl are given an item that transforms them to heroes. Kinda basic, but a, and maybe THE major plot point is that they don’t know who each other’s alternate egos are though they look the exact same with masks, and the kicker, she’s in love with him, but not as Cat Noir, and he’s in love with ladybug, but not necessarily her. In normal life, as u see her try and express to him she loves him or as heroes when they may realize who the other is makes u grip your seat. And without that dynamic, the show wouldn’t be anywhere close to what it is now. Thanks for reading my TED talk.
This arc supposed to be Goku as antagonist and Jiren as protogonist. It is started like that. They gave us hints about a warrior so strong fighting for justice. And goku was shown as a villian at the exhabition matches. Even goku said "Come at me with everything you have, i will defeat you!" This is a line where a villian will say. After tournament started it all failed somehow... Jiren should have stepped up the challange. True redemption of goku should be winning the tournament and reviving everyone.
I think you don't know what protagonist and antagonist means Protagonist is only main character and antagonist is just character who is againts protagonist so good and evil doesn't mean protagonist and antagonist Example:light yagami is protagonist since story is about him but he is villain and L is antagonist since he is againts light but he is hero
I struggle to even call Jiren a "character"...he's a plot point that just kind of occurs during the story. He's "big numbers!" in humanoid form with 0 personality or anything else to make him interesting.
Terrible... No? Just handled poorly. Perhaps I should watch the video first. But there is something to like about him. Likely not as an antagonist though.
Terrible maybe an overstatement but the majority of us were disappointed by how he was squandered. The disappointment in Jiren personally lingers more for me than all his positive qualities - especially the potential he had. The terrible backstory and his new year nerf ruined jiren for me
@@j0hnc00 I completely agree. He's a very disappointing character, but for me personally, there was the glimmer of hope for his character a points. Like after besting Vegeta and his second fight with ultra instinct where he becomes unusually desperate to end his fight with Goku. That and he's actually quite terrifying at times during the last few minutes of the Tournament of Power. Hell. Frankly I hate Tien during that arc more because they didn't do anything with him! But that's a personal bias talking.
@@j0hnc00 the backstory wasn't awful to me. It solidified why he only trusts himself and doesn't really fool with others. The guy killing his family isn't what we were supposed to pay attention to in the backstory it was the fact that he trained for years with people who he called friends to fight the guy only to have every last one of them abandon him when it was time to fight. That was what the backstory was about.
i personally found jiren extremely cool and although i do agree he shud have been involved in more , i think that it was fine to have him as a "passive antagonist".
Jiren was an interesting character only at the end. I prefer his manga backstory however to his anime one. Its straightforward, more realistic, and ties in with his character, and his lack of care for his teammates. I wish the manga kinda of expounded more upon this, because that's a great insight into his character, and a flaw that leaves open a lot of good character building for him. Super has a lot of great potential, but it has some serious writing flaws that needed to be worked on.
Jiren is basically Dragon Ball's equivalent of Infinite from the Sonic franchise- a lot of hype, but in the end, both characters end up to be revealed as CRIMINALLY boring. At least, Jiren actually has enough power to make the fights with him intense and gripping, while Infinite's power was interesting, but his bosses look easy and don't offer much in terms of what his true potential can be.
What if Toppo was the antagonist of the arc? He was established before the actual tournament, showed off his skills and interacted with Goku which portrayed him more of a hero with his own agenda. We know he values justice and companions so when he decides to disregard those values because his universe is getting closer to destruction, it makes sense without the need of a backstory. We know his personality but when pushed to the extreme, it creates more urgency to the story. And being a candidate for god of destruction creates tension rather than Jiren being just really strong. You know Toppo had to go through a harsh training so that explains his power. Toppo and Jiren share similar arcs in the ToP but I think Toppo's could've been more organic and not at the last minute like with Jiren. Probably a more satisfaying final boss and intriguing character arc that lasted the entire arc as opposed to the last 3 episodes.
I'd say the best intro scene would be him on the same planet as his regular intro, but he's being overrun by monsters, each with special abilities and weaknesses. With his far superior reactions and eyesight, Jiren finds the ones with abilities unique enough to them to actually pose a danger through some means and through quick, focused Glares, he destroys those before focusing on the horde in front of them and demolishing them in a single strike (Like he did against Maji Kayo.) before flying away into a Pride Trooper spacecraft, leaving the leveled place he was in behind to meet up with Toppo and the others. Then, the only real change I'd have is a few minor ones, like perhaps having Toppo, in the ToP arena, asking Jiren how his mission went and he just says "I got rid of the pests." Any other changes I'd have would be relating to other characters, and perhaps making someone else the final antagonist.
my main problem with jiren is that he has a personality but just does not use it he has a whole ideology that counters goku but he does not use it till the last 4 seconds if he used it and displayed his ideology throughout the whole T.O.P arc we would have conflict to opposite ideology's and personality's clashing to see whose's is right
I think Jiren is an amazing character if you use the anime and the manga together. I also think his background was absolute dogshit and in need of fixing. Jiren is actually interesting because its the first time Goku has fought against someone who is geniunely a better, nicer and gooder guy than Goku is. (Ignoring that nonsense where Jiren attacked the stands which makes no sense since the god damn angels and grand priest were around who are hundreds of trillions of times stronger than Jiren) I think it was well done in that Goku used an insanely powerful Genki Dama/Spirit Bomb to blast Jiren and It failed really easily... almost as though the Genki Dama/Spirit Bomb designed to destroy evil failed to work on a guy who is very very good and honorable.. Goku was the bad guy in the tournament of power, Jiren was trying to save his universe and Would have sacrificed himself if it meant all the universes got to live, Goku would never ever ever do that. Jiren however desires one thing above all others and that is his masters resurrection. I really think Jiren being torn between his honour and his desire to show that he is worthy to his master is just amazing, but no one will ever get it... Same as no one understands Vegeta and just thinks hes throwing a tantrum every time or sooking/crying when he can't beat Goku... People don't get the character development and they never will and it kinda annoys me.
I agree that the manga has a more captivating Jiren. Not that Goku is evil, (Goku himself sacrificed his life to save Earth from Cell, and asked for the tournament in the first place so the other universes can have a fighting chance of survival; nobody ever wants to bring that up though.)
“Same as no one understands vegeta” Reaching a bit too much there dude? Most db fans who followed the series can understand vegeta. His pride, his frustration at being the second best, and his constant terrible mistakes. You seriously cannot compare jiren to vegeta. Unlike jiren, who’s just a block, vegeta actually grew and became better. And the right way.
I actually greatly disliked Dragon Ball Super. All of the stakes were very artificial. I didn't find the never-ending series of fighting tournaments, that Super turned out to be, compelling or interesting. It was just the same thing over and over again, with Goku Black being the only exception.
45 jhongalt : jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja Goku it's the Gary stu the men
Keenan Moore I don’t like him because he’s just a copy paste origin story of Superman, and the fan made creation of Jiren the Grey in Mexico El Hermano was a better written character.
If Jiren went around talking to people about his problems not only would that make him just like every other fighter in the tournament but contradict his beliefs in not trusting or dealing with other people. Jiren was awesome the way he was.
Jiren is a BAMF and his story was shoved into the arc in the very ending. The reason Jiren is the baddest dude is because he’s not a villain, he doesn’t have a million year old grudge, he doesn’t care to rule and he doesn’t give a rats about fame and glory. He’s just willing to do anything to obtain absolute strength and his hands are rated E for EVERYONE. I was actually going for him tbh. Jiren’s biggest weaknesses were the writers. 🤷🏽♂️
They did with new Broly what they should have done with Jiren. Broly was the protagonist of the movie, he was just an enraged dude trying to survive; Jiren could have been the same, some chill dude trying to beat Goku because the moron put his universe at risk, but instead we got this, someone who doesn't seem to care about anything at all, despite stating that he only entered the tournament to save his universe. If Jiren was given agency and put in the protag spotlight everyone would have loved him, he was OP as fuck.
Every time they talk about Jared who is his personality character or his feats the moment they're done talking about it we're either introduced to an image or flashback
I mean if you are speaking in a narrative sense the antagonist of the arc is Zen-Oh. He is the one who poses a direct threat to the way of life of all participants in the tournament and there would be no threat if he did not create the conflict and Zen-oh is quite a compelling antagonist because he is not inherently evil. Jiren would be considered a foil to Goku, they are two people of opposite personality, but of similar talent, in the same situation, with the same goal, pitted against each other. Jiren is not an antagonist.
Sure Jiren's character was bland. But seeing him getting motivated by his teammates the same way gokus friends did was refreshing. Even if he was quite generic as a character, you've gotta admit that the way he fought the battle was something that not many fights wouldve ended out. Jiren is literally the only antagonist in DBS to be beaten by mortal power (SSJ and Final Form Frieza)
The thing is, theres a huge difference between A) jiren and his arc (T.o.P) in a vacuum B) Jiren, compared to other antagonists of the series In scenario A), i frickin loved jiren. Sure his backstory and motivations were a bit lackluster, but it was so refreshing to have a stoic, realistic, non-hyper character. It contrasted greatly against the T.o.P.'s background (lots of characters in very active conversation and fighting) to have him just sit there, meditating. It set up how much stronger he was - not unlike Frieza's introduction just after the saiyan saga - but without the evil schemes and laughs On the other hand, in scenario B), jiren is a much more forgettable character. Frieza and Cell are obviously better, and while i wouldnt put jiren quite as low as majin buu... i would put him behind the likes of Omega Shenron and Baby/dr.mew from GT, especially considering how lackluster his backstory is
CLG Skrypt - Finally, someone who shares the same opinion! His nature is a breath of fresh air and his power is exhilarating, but he’s pretty tame, otherwise. Personally, that’s enough for me to like him, but he does need additional development. The arc itself gave him little opportunity to do so.
@@brolysama6671 What the fuck are you going on about? They're giving their reasons why they like Jiren, while also stating that he could be better. They're not the cunts who shout, "oH, JiReN mAkEs Me wEt BeCaUsE hE's STRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
@@simplyskrypt3914 I seriously can't put Omega Shenron (especially Omega Shenron)or Baby from GT above anything in all of Dragon Ball. Going back & watching those, it was shocking how much worse it was than I remember...and I didn't even enjoy them at the time, I just had some good memories of specific moments. But in reality, there's no real back story or character arc for them either, and Omega Shenron was a joke. They gave more of a character arc & story to the one dragon that used sun/heat powers than they did Omega Shenron
"Jiren the Generic" is what I dubbed him. He's really not a bad character, but his story is so overused. The "haunted-by-my-past-so-I-must-be-the-strongest" thing is used everywhere. Once you see this story for the first few times, it's okay. But when you've seen it dozens of times? No. No, it is not fun anymore. It's not a plot twist. It's just an "Oh, that guy" situation.
I got to say using BBC's Sherlock is the worst version of Sherlock to use as an example of show don't tell characterization because he is by far the pinnacle of "unintelligent people trying to write intelligent characters and failing" Moriarty's also a shitty villain in that show. He literally spent his entire arc disassembling his own criminal Empire himself and then kills himself at the end because he's mad that his crush didn't reciprocate his feelings.
@Conrad Kujur well if other people think it's good then it MUST be good! It wouldnt be "well regarded" if it wasnt good after all. Or it could be hot trash and the only people who like it are people who've never read a sherlock holmes story in their entire lives
Jiren being impossibly hard to beat in those last episodes of Super was honestly so annoying. I felt exhausted by every one of his power ups. he really just felt like a random from another universe who just happens to be more powerful than Goku, his only purpose is to stop Goku from winning easily. great foundation for a convincing fight, right?
I was hoping the tournament was going to be a farce so that the angels would revolt because some bullshit like they are never in the same space at one time.
I get the joke but ocd is making me do this anyway, it was jiren’s current full power. Goku’s personality awakened a new power in jiren equal to mui. The only reason it wasn’t close in the end is cause jiren made goku mad
It's like that for every villain in Dragon ball z super. They always say "This isn't my final form" when their close to defeat just for goku to power up even more. At least in the past he had to earn it or goku either died or was too injured for 20 episodes so someone else had to step in which was gohan or vegeta.
I think goku should have lost and not gained full mui this fight, Jiren should have definitely won. Then at the end he would reconsider: Revive my master? Or accept the fact that he died, knowing that his master would have been proud of him, thus making the decision of reviving all of the universes. Would have made his character soooooo much more likable. Still my favorite character besides broly because of how badass he is tho lol
@@uhhhidk2238 hell no jiren is just strong for no reason just so goku has a obstacle he was a non needed character I would rather have frieza turn on everyone at the end
GodOfCreation 21 but that would have given Jiren character. They definitely tried by giving build up and giving him a backstory, and then having him respect goku at the end. If you’re just gonna spit nonsense then don’t reply
The problem with Jiren is that for 99% of his screen time, he's not a character. He's a wall, a block, a gate. He's only there to block progress and because he was told to, nothing else. You can't make a wall engaging.
@@NightmareZzK it's not his appearance it's the fact that he does nothing until UI goku shows up then after that nothing again until UI goku shows then nothing again until he has no choice but to fight goku because they're the last 2 teams left then near the end of the arc finally gets a character and after his backstory is revealed starts trash talking and smiling. Jiren didn't give us anything about his character outside of "I'm strong" until the end where BELMOND has to do it for him. And his backstory doesn't match his trust issues at all everyone he knows and cares about is slaughtered in front of him and the few survivors left know they can't win and jiren tries to get them to fight the guy again which is suicide. So he loses trust in people because they rode with him into battle the first time and got absolutely slaughtered so they don't want to fight the dude a week later and that's betrayal? It would've been better if Jiren and the students went back but left Jiren to die while they ran away that causes trauma and leads to major trust issues. That would've made his "power over friendship" more believable.
Then so was Freeza, SSJ. So was Cell when Goku got ridiculously stronger in the Cell Arc (moreso for Gohan in this arc though) So was Buu, Goku got SSJ3. So was Beerus, Super Saiyan God. Hit with SSB Kaio-Ken. So was Jiren
Eh, it wasn't really one with Frieza, though. It was the culmination of the whole story of the form Frieza feared that Vegeta had been mentioning over and over throughout the arc.
PsychoticPurse 6 But those characters had personality. They were *villains* with no qualms killing any and everyone around just for fun or for their goals. Yea In hindsight you could say they’re all just a catalyst for Gokus new asspull but at the time they didn’t feel that way. But Jiren is so obviously that and he’s not even fun to watch. He hardly speaks, he does nothing for the longest time, his design compared to the Z villains and even the movie villains is so plain and boring most of the fandom only likes him because “He stronk, he fight Goku real good, he real stronk.”
He didn't need a tragic back story, his motivation should have been Goku was the villain due to him starting the TOP & Jiren wanted to stop him in the name of justice, The Pride Troopers are Super Heroes, the Z Fighters are not.
@@Ultizer Yeah that's why Frieza's interactions with the Pride Troopers were much more enjoyable than any of the Z-fighters. They should have just gone the whole way revived Cell and have a side-plot of him Eating the Troopers 'It's not killing them so it's allowed', then conflict being let Cell reach Jiren's power or put an end to this
@Moisés Silva so if you had to beat someone or everyone you ever loved would die would you see your enemy as a good person? And if yes when you learn he does not care if the other universes die is he still a good person?
The thing is, everything was set up perfectly for this arc. Jiren is a literal superhero in the show. And Goku was scapegoated as a "villain" early in this arc, with the other Universes believing he was responsible for the tournament. Team 7 has a roster of former/currant villains: Piccolo, the androids, Vegeta, and, of course, the infamous Frieza. Sooooo… Jiren should be PISSED and out to punish the evil Universe 7, believing Goku is in league with Frieza and Prince Vegeta (Frieza did historically hire Saiyans). It would be the perfect ironic role reversal... and they did nothing with it. Jiren not caring if everyone died was not in character with his backstory or his actual job(saving people).
Yeah that's what we were all expecting when the TOP was starting. Idk why they didn't follow up on it. I like the angle you mentioned of Gokus team being full of villains.
I dont think Jiren is nonchalant about whether people live or die, he was just being pressured so hard by Goku that he was willing to do almost anything to beat him, because to Jiren, losing equated to experiencing his youth again. If a victim of years of torture equated losing to being strapped to a chair and tortured again, they would likely do something similar. He saw the people in the stadium as the source of Goku's strength, so he sought to eliminate them to weaken Goku.
Jiren's "actual job" is not saving people. He literally states that his desire is to seek that which lies beyond strength, not save people. He even treats his own universe with contempt because he has no trust in anyone weaker than him. Which because he's the strongest means he doesn't trust anyone.
"What people tell about the character," can go a long way. People should remember the first 1/3 of John Wick was literally just everyone shitting their pants over hearing his name, telling stories about him & bringing up past stories of his legend without him doing much of anything. And it worked wonderfully, as it showed you this guy was going to eventually make everyone's life a living hell.
I was looking for this, cause it definitely worked. I think it's because we aren't given too much info about him at first, but we see his routine after he experiences the death of a loved one. We instantly understand and see that his world has changed and he's grieving. Then as we hear different people panic and talk about him, we see that he's uncovering something in the basement. There's more to this seemingly quiet and reserved guy than we were shown, and we're drawn in and ready to see how he reacts to the people who hurt him. It's not easy an easy introduction to pull off, but it shouldn't be ruled out so quickly.
The big difference is that there is still a ton of show don't tell in John Wick. Simple things like his car, his home, appearance and lifestyle shows you some hints into his character and how strong he is. We know he's an assassin, and considering how expensive his belongings look, he had to have been a pretty good one. Jiren had nothing besides his incredibly bland design. And when people like mafia leaders gush about how dangerous John Wick is, we're given far better dialogue and suspense than someone just saying "Jiren is soooooooooooooo strong".
That’s something I don’t understand about this video. His introduction was fine and just because it wasn’t conventional or by the books doesn’t mean it’s bad. He wasn’t a conventional villain, his premise was a Hero who was participating out of obligation, he doesn’t need to be evil like a conventional villain. I still do admit that they wasted this perfect groundwork for his character.
@@nattylight512 Agreed. The didn't nail the payoffs, but the introduction and setup were perfectly fine. The legend and hype surrounding him doesnt have to come from him or what he's doing whatsoever. I still think the villain was setup to be Goku, but in the end they got cold feet and didn't follow through. They opted to change course, and it threw off the story
@@nattylight512 He doesn't need to be evil, but we know NOTHING about him. Why isn't he interested? Is it because he doesn't care about the fate of his own Universe? Is it because he is overconfident that he will win? And even then, how does he feel about fighting knowing that other universes are going to get erased? If he is supposed to be a hero, he should act like one. He should have been given a bit of Toppo's personality, hating on Goku and even on the gods. Saying something like he hates them. He shouldn't be meditating calmly. He should have been furious. The exposition was weak. We should have seen him do something even before the tournament. Just 1 thing. Like save a cat, eat ramen, take a shower, let a kid get run over by a bus and do nothing to save them, getting lectured by Toppo, cosplay, look at a picture of his dead master and ripping it apart, fail at his duty as a Pride Trooper because "now that the multiverse is in peril, the Gods have shown is that the pursuit of Justice is overrated, only strength matters, I quit the Pride Troopers, see you losers at the tournament. And Toppo, even as a subsitute God of Destruction, you are WEAK!", kill a villain because he doesn't believe in justice, seeing a guy that the other Troopers had trouble catching shit his pants when hearing "Jiren is coming"... Anything would have been better really.
@@usaccdecks8363 it comes from squatting. Squatting Cuts off all circulation to legs, giving slav 2 legs worth of extra blood to use for punching with arms.
jiren's character is that he's strong "what do you do" "strong" "what do you want" "strong" "where do you come from" "strong" "is there anything about you that isn't 'strong?'" "strong"
Tetsuo Umezawa I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive. I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive. I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive. I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive
@Johnny Serrano Barraza He works under Frieza, he's by no means desperate for food or shelter and definitely not in "harsh conditions" as many people for some reason (?) seem to make it out to be. The dude's just an asshole, he thinks of the local animals (people?) as a pitstop.
What would’ve made Jiren more interesting, is if instead of his “friends” failing him, the Gods failed him. He prayed to them to save his family, but didn’t answer, so he went on a journey to become stronger than the very Gods he once worshipped.
Jiren is a lot better in the manga who's actually a heroic and sympathetic figure. But that does not excuse toeis decision to make jiren a thicc personality lacking power wall.
TNM says it best. Jiren has a character arc, but it only lasts two episodes. So he has a character to enjoy, and I do...but that's two episodes. Besides that, he had a plain backstory, desire to get stronger, and we know what wish he wants before the finale. Literally the bare minimum before his real character broke out for the climax.
@@athifarif9724 I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive.
-So, what are your character traits? -Strong -Oh.. Well, so what's your character arc like? -Fighting -Ummm that's not a...Well alright. Uh, what's your backstory? -Death -Jesus do you at least have some kind of motif in this story?? -Power
Tbh Toppo made more sense becoming the "villain" of the arc, him having to abandon his sense of Justice that he lived by, and become a God of Destruction, the very thing that he hated to have any hope of his universe surviving, granted I liked how Vegeta was the one to defeat him, he himself given up his pride and becoming Majin Vegeta in the past (although the actual fight with Jiren was pretty cool, he was just pretty weak character wise)
Raging Raving I agree. I also feel like having Goku beat an actual GoD (even though he’s just a candidate) would have been better because DBS started with Beerus as the main antagonist, so it should end (at least for now) with a GoD as the main antagonist and Goku finally surpassing that level.
King H I agree. Regardless on whether he’s the main antagonist or the second fiddle, the whole Majin Vegeta thing would of made the fight a lot better imo.
Please we don't do that here cause Jiren better if we talk about differentiation, Every Dragon ball character is like copy and past tien gohan piccolo goku all look the same
I just realized, Jiren is Plank from Ed Edd & Eddy. He's an unmoving hunk of wood whose personality is literally what other people imposed on him. Then he started moving; that was his only difference as far as I care.
Ginsai issue is even the story didn’t really respond to the tension. He destroyed a major warrior pretty easily and... well everyone hoped he would just sit down and meditate until everything was over. That didn’t seem believable to me and is pretty much as anti-climatic as it comes, in that he had pretty much zero presence unless he was slapping Goku around like a used teenagers sock. Yeah, I wouldn’t have minded the fairly bland backstory as much, if he did more then posture and occasionally blink at something. One good thing about the manga was that he didn’t spend so much time just loading around.
The story Belmond told about Jiren felt very forced. We had tens of episodes of fighting and then out of the sudden the Anime was like ''STORY TIME''. It is like Toei realised in between the episodes that they messed up and then used an emergency plan.
It may not have really done anything that would have changed people's minds about the guy but I feel it would have been better if he just didn't have his backstory explained at all. Leave it a mystery for people to speculate over. Maybe elude to what he's about at the end when Goku has his back to a wall but never really go in depth so we'll be teased until his next appearance. Assuming we ever see him again when they get back to producing weekly episodes that is.
It wouldn't have felt forced if he actually displayed personality that intrigued the audience prior to the revelation of his past. Like some of the Juppongatana in Rurouni Kenshin.
One Thing Dragon ball is Anime that follows a Kind of Storyline of Fights evolving Fights to resolve Things. Jiren from the Beginning was stated that is not a Villain. In Universe 11 Jiren is a Warrior a Police a Troop he Saves Lives by defeating bad guys , Villains or any other Kind of Bad People. That is the Pride Troopers. The Tournament Decide who Lives. The Tension was always there because of the Rumor of Someone that is Stronger than Beerus and Beerus is Stronger than Goku. Their Lives are on the Line because they Can be Defeated and erased at any Moment after Jiren Came out. One Thing is Impossible to everyone one have a Great Background or Backstory in Real Life and Animes Copy Real Life but they Put Fictional Things in it. Jiren Doesn't Have a Great a Big Backstory is Story is a Little Tragedy Story. But he Have Something that is Character is Really good at and that is his Strength and Power that No one have. He is Originally not a Villain so he never was Suppose to be Like Frieza or Cell or King Picollo because all of the Bad Guys are Not Totally Equal. Jiren Made us feel Like we are Doomed since we follow the Story of Goku of the Universe 7. Is Impossible to Have a Character that is Good in Everything I mean Everything. That one Thing that Jiren is Good is Enough. Is Batlle Skills and Power. Don't go watch a Movie or Anime just for Story and don't watch just for Fights.
Then they had him decide to fire off at the crowd for no reason, just to make him look villainous. You can be an arrogant antisocial asshole without needing to do anything villainous.
@@Draylin41 with a character as boring as jiren, it would not have really created any sort of mystery. it would have merely amplified how little he actually matters and how little they thought him out.
TOEI, Toriyama, or whoever might be the responsible for DBS missed a great opportunity in the tournament of power arc. And the saddest thing about that was that, at the begining of the arc, they stablished a very interest concept: Goku as the antagonist of the arc, or in other words, the villain of the saga. Goku was the responsible for getting every one in danger of being erased of the existance with his proposal of the tournament. Everyone was enjoying their life at their best in home with their families and friends, than suddenly, a crazy man comes up with a competition that is going to kill all of the losers, just because that crazy one likes to fight too much. That was interest and was sad that TOEI just didn't care to explore how this change of dynamic would work with Goku facing the fact that 70 fighters of 7 universes, and their gods, see him as a VILLAIN. They just didn't have the guts to do it, right after stablishing this concept, they changed their minds and set up that the idea of erasing all the universes was already made by Zeno or the father of the angels (forgot his name) and at the end of the arc, told us about the selfish nature of Jiren, to come up with a dislikeble antagonist at the very final moments. That's lazy, sad and coward. Tournament of Power could have been memorable and was just... ok... what was at least much more than the whole previous portion of the show.
Well yes and no, in the manga is stablished that Zeno Sama was planning to destroy most of the 12 Universes because he consider them weak, the Tournament of Power give them a chance to survive. In fact... all of them survived. But again, yes. DBS is just fanservices and powerups mashed togheter, and sadly at least to me, nostalgia is the main reason this series continues.
@@KonEl-BlackZero so in the anime they say Zeno was already planning tô Destroy the weak universes and bla bla bla. Bullshit, as I sair, they Just didnd have the guts to do a not so infatile story.
@@pablodarosa8429 Atleast the fights and animations were on God level. I'm satisfied with that. If I want Story I'll go watch another Anime, and not something like dragonball tbh
Uninteresting story, character, design, and abilities. He’s just “stronger than everyone else”, and is “the last of his race, and a person important to him died”. Jiren is if you sanded down all the qualities of a main character to big muscled, bald, gray character-shaped mold.
@@lapplandkun9273 lol Super was already pretty much a fan-fiction, a terrible one, AF was way better than Super, also just so you know not every fan-fiction is bad, apart from Super of course
@@etam8099 there is a way to make GT canon but you'd need to delay AF so you can reintroduce beerus and god ki, bring piccolo back and tell some backstories so it feels organic
Db seems to have 3 primary ear types. The ear holes (usually reserved for villains and aliens) Human-like, and elf ears. I use to wonder if aliens with those ear types were related, but I just chalk it up to Toriyama recycling ideas.
@@theopulentone1650 My favourite Toriyama character design trope is the giant gem on the forehead, only Frieza, Cell and a handful of villains have it, but i always liked it.
@@23jakesmith23I mean, not saying that he maybe did not made him a little bit like that, but the award for making him look even more like superman goes to the english dub
One Thing Dragon ball is Anime that follows a Kind of Storyline of Fights evolving Fights to resolve Things. Jiren from the Beginning was stated that is not a Villain. In Universe 11 Jiren is a Warrior a Police a Troop he Saves Lives by defeating bad guys , Villains or any other Kind of Bad People. That is the Pride Troopers. The Tournament Decide who Lives. The Tension was always there because of the Rumor of Someone that is Stronger than Beerus and Beerus is Stronger than Goku. Their Lives are on the Line because they Can be Defeated and erased at any Moment after Jiren Came out. One Thing is Impossible to everyone one have a Great Background or Backstory in Real Life and Animes Copy Real Life but they Put Fictional Things in it. Jiren Doesn't Have a Great a Big Backstory is Story is a Little Tragedy Story. But he Have Something that is Character is Really good at and that is his Strength and Power that No one have. He is Originally not a Villain so he never was Suppose to be Like Frieza or Cell or King Picollo because all of the Bad Guys are Not Totally Equal. Jiren Made us feel Like we are Doomed since we follow the Story of Goku of the Universe 7. Is Impossible to Have a Character that is Good in Everything I mean Everything. That one Thing that Jiren is Good is Enough. Is Batlle Skills and Power. Don't go watch a Movie or Anime just for Story and don't watch just for Fights.
This so much... Jiren was the embodiment of a unrivaled super Alien warrior. Then Belmond had to explain Jiren is just a poor guy who can't get over the dead of his mentor and parents.
i remember when jiren through that punch at goku and demonstrated 1% of his power and shook goku out of his blue form...but they nerfed the shit out of him lol
One Thing Dragon ball is Anime that follows a Kind of Storyline of Fights evolving Fights to resolve Things. Jiren from the Beginning was stated that is not a Villain. In Universe 11 Jiren is a Warrior a Police a Troop he Saves Lives by defeating bad guys , Villains or any other Kind of Bad People. That is the Pride Troopers. The Tournament Decide who Lives. The Tension was always there because of the Rumor of Someone that is Stronger than Beerus and Beerus is Stronger than Goku. Their Lives are on the Line because they Can be Defeated and erased at any Moment after Jiren Came out. One Thing is Impossible to everyone one have a Great Background or Backstory in Real Life and Animes Copy Real Life but they Put Fictional Things in it. Jiren Doesn't Have a Great a Big Backstory is Story is a Little Tragedy Story. But he Have Something that is Character is Really good at and that is his Strength and Power that No one have. He is Originally not a Villain so he never was Suppose to be Like Frieza or Cell or King Picollo because all of the Bad Guys are Not Totally Equal. Jiren Made us feel Like we are Doomed since we follow the Story of Goku of the Universe 7. Is Impossible to Have a Character that is Good in Everything I mean Everything. That one Thing that Jiren is Good is Enough. Is Batlle Skills and Power. Don't go watch a Movie or Anime just for Story and don't watch just for Fights.
I once heard this interesting headcanon that, Jiren was actually the one who unknowingly killed his family and master, thanks to his own immense uncontrollable power. That *would* explain why everyone just left him and even MORE explain why in the flashback, he’s completely unharmed when his master was killed and even MORE MORE explain why the monster didn’t just kill Jiren when Jiren walked in on him in his house with his dead family lying on the floor What do you all think about it? 🤔
Does his immense power also make him schitzophrenic? With his (former) friends as well who also fought this “immense power”? I guess it works if you ignore the backstory
Don't forget to leave a like or dislike on the video! It really does help :)
I'm specifically referring to the anime's interpretation of Jiren in this video. And if you enjoyed him, I'm happy :) Im not saying one can't enjoy his character.
I mostly enjoyed jiren cause he's hot as fuck shirtless UwU
Jiren needs some hair to go supersayin
He was good in the last episode.
Mark thanks because of you and your videos on dragon ball you’ve convinced my Fiance to watch the series and as a result I get to get married with a Dragon Ball themed wedding cake
CONTINUE THOSE VIDEOS WITH OTHER CHARACTERS !!!!
Jiren backstory
Jiren- my family and master are DEAD
Vegeta- bro I'm working with a man who killed my race
Goku- And you. Remember when Frieza killed you, Vegeta? He also killed my best friend. Remember that, Krillin?
and Vegeta didn't even care
@0ddMonk3y good point
@0ddMonk3y the person has to have died within a year with normal dragon balls
@0ddMonk3y I have no idea, but don't you think goku would've brought back grandpa gohan if that were the case?
Here’s the problem.
Jirens story began 5 episodes before the finale of a 54 episode long arc
That and his backstory was a poorly executed carbon copy of a generic shonen backstory
Exactly.
Pound-For-Pound
TOP’s issues were a result of Super’s main overarching issue in a nutshell.
*Production*
- One of the series directors leaving mid way through the arc to work on the movie
- Toei not trying to help the quality of the series
- Terrible scheduling and planning per episode
It was just a mess
I liked most of the TOP but man it could’ve been so much better than what it was.
@@MrTorsation476858 Like, I wouldn't even mind Jiren having a shitty backstory as much as I do if they had just revealed what it was from the get-go rather than hyping up the source of his big number and wrapping him in mystery the moment he's revealed. They could let Vegeta and Freeza learn about Jiren's past, and Vegeta could get enraged that his planet got blown up and he isn't a Super Saiyan God of Destruction, or maybe Freeza tries getting a rise out of him by promising to wipe out more villages or pretending to be the one who orphaned Jiren.
@@MrTorsation476858 It's not even that, Jiren was beaten in an un-even fight once and that's it...Even carbon copy shonens do that better, how is that at all entertaining or believable?
One loss which resulted in no death causes Jiren to be a sociopath? Why? Did he care about power at that point? He never seems to care about anything though so that's kind of out the window...
There are other characters like Jiren but every single one of them is better.
Who remembers the day when pilaf was actually a challenge for goku
I don't think he was ever a physical threat, but yeah.
Pepperidge Farm remembers!
He never was
his castle was more like a treat than pilaf
He needed piccolo’s help to beat him he would’ve lost if he wasn’t there
I can't believe that the strongest person in dragonball canon is the "ayy lmao" meme.
*Reality Canon
He's not the strongest
I think you get what I'm trying to convey. No need to be technical about it.
idiot
SHUT THE FUCK UP AYYY LMAO IS A PIECE OF SHIT IT MAKES JIREN A EVEN WORSER CHARACTER YOU CREAPY BASTARD
Well, the god of destruction that cheers for Jiren is literally a clown.
Just like his fangirls
Makes sense
Jiren would give a way better moral dilemma to goku if they had a very similar character arc throughout their lives. It would make goku contemplate if he was really the good guy in the situation
Goku was never a good guy, is had been stated that he is more like a bad person that does good things often for selfish reasons
Stick Nicks well if anything it would be better if jiren was just goku but with a better sense of good. And goku is kinda a selfish hero he does good things only if they would benefit himself and protect his friends
@@cherrycoyote55
He's not a bad person, its been stated that he's pure hearted, he's just a bit selfish for his goal, just like every successful human being.
@JJC
Naruto and HxH are complex stories while DB is just fantasy, fighting and comedy like Gintama, you are asking to change a show's genre, which is stupid, you should watch other series of your preferred genre instead of trying to change others.
Powerless Man he almost gave up his life by letting Frieza get to 100% so he puts having a good fight a little bit above everything
jiren? meet infinite. Welcome to the "I'm NoT wEaK" squad.
*Jiren's Backstory:* My family and master died, that's why I'm evil.
*Infinite's Backstory:* I was always evil, but I was defeated and insulted once, that's why I'm extra evil.
*yo*
@@ryanm.8720 shadow was created to be evil but the fact that he was created evil and not born evil really has room for character growth. It’s nice to see an evil bot turn into a semi nice guy when he needs to.
@@kripticxtj6499 By Sonic 06, he is a nice guy
Jiren isn’t an antagonist, he’s just a tournament participant
This, you guys are judging him as something he's not
Antagonists don't have to be evil, antagonists are anyone that opposes the main character. He is an antagonist.
What Mutsu said. Jiren fights against Goku, the main character, and is therefore an antagonist.
You know, Goku, the protagonist, fights Jiren, the antagonist.
@@NM-ev7pu preach.
I actually hated Jiren when he was revealed. His design is just a lazy way to animate someone really easily. It's awful.
Brow Ming wat
Agreed, his design is so dumb and redundant
buu ripoff but with as few details as possible
I like the idea of having the stereotypical alien as a design, but other takes on stereotypes (Buu, Dabura, Piccolo) turned out much better. Jiren is so awful
Mighty Commander even frieza has similar but better design, I personally like Jiren but I can agree he is one of the weaker of dragon ball villains
I hate Jiren. He's so boring.
Like, Hit's whole character is "I'm a strong assassin," but he at least looks cool and has cool powers.
Jiren has LESS personality, looks lame, and has no cool powers other than "I'm so tough nothing works on me."
Seriously, idk how they make the MAIN "villain" looked like that. I mean if you cant make a good backstory for him just makes him look like a total badass (DBZ broly is the best example for this)
@@mikechrist9699 dbz broly was just a walking power house but looked cool and his voice for the second movie was cool. Jiren looks like a guy u see on the side walk taking a walk with a skin tight track suit on. There’s nothing intimidating about him
@@kripticxtj6499 Cmon man they definitely gave broly some personality. My man was evil and sadistic. Some of the things he did and said just made him all the more likable. Like remember when he said, "Is that another word for coffin?" He definitely is a walking power house but power house with at least SOME personality.
@@LastGenRichtofenn he has no personality hes just evil lmao
@@chair3319 he ain't evil fool he just lost trusting in people. People like you need to watch the anime
I like the idea more that he’s a symbol of absolute overwhelming strength, an unclimbable wall- the idea that Whis keeps telling Goku that there will always be someone out there stronger than you
They just fucked up his backstory is all
I agree. He was best used as a representation of being absolute strength. His background should have remained ambiguous.
"he's a symbol" yes a symbol of why having a character be a power level on legs is inane.
But that's not a lesson Goku needed to learn. He has known that ever since his 1st tournament in which he lost to Jackie Chun.
@@MatthewBrown-il3ct Himself, Goku's drive comes from a need for self-betterment. Unlike Vegeta who trains as hard as he does in order to become #1, or Gohan who trains solely in order to protect Earth, Goku trains to become better than he already is. His fights are merely ways for him to test himself rather than prove himself. There's a reason why during the same 7 years of peace between Cell and Buu, Goku achieved a whole new form while Vegeta remained relatively stable and Gohan became weaker. He has never once shown a need for a reminder.
You right, they done messed up his story mate ;-;
Remember when the newest movie made Broly a more compelling character in a few minutes?
I do, it was great.
So you're saying if Jiren had a WHOLE MOVIE to himself it wouldn't have been the same? Stop...
@@shadesnfades1246
Even a whole movie would not make Jiren more interesting. He is boring even aesthetically.
@@shadesnfades1246 They didn’t say *in a whole movie,* they said *in a few minutes.*
I still don't hate Jiren. And I see his heel turn at the end as him at his breaking point. For so long he must have thought that nothing could best him, that no one could threaten him. Then Goku comes along and shatters that. It breaks him and in that moment he is fueled by rage that his perception of himself is gone. So he attempts to kill Goku's friends to reaffirm his belief in himself.
Everyone has a breaking point, everyone flies into a rage at some point in our lives. Even if that rage is far beyond our normal demeanor. And we do or say things we don't mean.
Beautifully said and that's exactly what made me disregard jirens one dimensional back story. The heel turn was needed and imo, done right
Matthew Hilliker I think his character wasn’t the problem, but how his character was executed.
If he's stronger than Belmont, why did he even participate? Goku wasn't stronger than Belmont, and he wouldn't have been if Jiren didn't fight him. Toppo wouldve been able to steamroll most of the competition, anyway. Base Form or not.
Wonderfully said. That would be amazing, IF Jiren was an interesting character.
@@minimonkeymasher8888 you do realize that's the dumbest thing i've heard yet right? "why would you put your strongest fighter on the team?" BECAUSE HE THE STRONGEST lmao
not putting him on the team would've been a dumber mistake
Toppo was better
He had a dynamic view change and his god change was a surprise
One Thing Dragon ball is Anime that follows a Kind of Storyline of Fights evolving Fights to resolve Things.
Jiren from the Beginning was stated that is not a Villain. In Universe 11 Jiren is a Warrior a Police a Troop he Saves Lives by defeating bad guys , Villains or any other Kind of Bad People. That is the Pride Troopers.
The Tournament Decide who Lives. The Tension was always there because of the Rumor of Someone that is Stronger than Beerus and Beerus is Stronger than Goku. Their Lives are on the Line because they Can be Defeated and erased at any Moment after Jiren Came out.
One Thing is Impossible to everyone one have a Great Background or Backstory in Real Life and Animes Copy Real Life but they Put Fictional Things in it. Jiren Doesn't Have a Great a Big Backstory is Story is a Little Tragedy Story. But he Have Something that is Character is Really good at and that is his Strength and Power that No one have. He is Originally not a Villain so he never was Suppose to be Like Frieza or Cell or King Picollo because all of the Bad Guys are Not Totally Equal.
Jiren Made us feel Like we are Doomed since we follow the Story of Goku of the Universe 7.
Is Impossible to Have a Character that is Good in Everything I mean Everything.
That one Thing that Jiren is Good is Enough. Is Batlle Skills and Power. Don't go watch a Movie or Anime just for Story and don't watch just for Fights.
Better, but still not good.
Chill. Jiren was absolute greatness.
Lol toppo was shit
Toppo's gut punch on Freiza is still one of the coolest moments of the tournament.
Jiren fact 101 when jiren got his driver license he taught his car how to drive
No his Driver Licenses got Jiren
God Serena on the contrary jiren is the driver license 😭💀
Lmao
Jiren Facts 101; Jiren didn't drive the car, he stared it down till it move.
@@Ghost7065 😂
I like to think of Jiren as Goku if Goku's never had the dragon balls. What would Goku's personality be like if the death of his friends were permanent?
He would be dead since nobody could bring him back
Don't use logic because the average DBS fan doesn't have enough brain cells to process that.
Jiren is the embodiment of those Brazilian character edits from salty bet.
If you are talking about El Hermano and Gohan Blanco, they are from Mexico
One thing I will always love about Jiren is that he doesn't transform or have some giga hidden full power form, he's strong as is
I can only describe Jiren as "Pro Wrestling Booking - The Character". He's the end game, the main event. But this is only established because other characters we are familiar with are given huge power creep (the rub) only to be immediately jobbed to Jiren.
Jiren is ET on steroids.
He got big as fuck just in case the FBI tries pulling another raid on him
@@infinityhand6569
Bro, XD
LMAO
He's more of a "grey" alien you see in UFO cliches
LMFAO
The first time we’re introduced to Kahseral, he’s saying he can’t save the universe because he’s busy saving a cat. He should have had a bigger role. Not overwhelmingly strong, but the smartest and most crafty of the PTs. He should have been the 17 of their universe.
Very interesting. Oddly enough when you explained the flaws in the plot, I enjoy the idea of writing that’s different for the sake of it. They’ve clearly written plot lines that were inspired by the story writing themes you pointed out, so I think this awkward story line was intentional, which to me, is exciting.
Of all places i did not expect to see John Hill in the comment section of a dragon ball video...
.....and just when I thought he couldnt get any cooler.
First off your channel is phenomenal. I think something to consider is that this was kind of the point. It's one of my favorite arcs because it's just a sporting event. Didn't need articificle growth and fake scary tensions. Was just a chance for my favorite players to make cool plays. Jiren I think would of been less fun if he had a personality. He was supposed to be a neutral wall. I think he uniqueness would of been lost if he was evil and needed to be defeated or would of made less fum.seeing cool.shit if we liked him to much.
They should have combined jiren and Toppo. A super strong but quiet warrior motivated by justice, until he realizes he might lose and abandons everything he valued to become the next God of Destruction.
Think Toriyama just wrote himself into a corner. Haven’t had a decent natural flowing arc since cell. Dude can’t even remember his own lore a
Terrible or not you can’t deny the fact that he commands presence, something most antagonists fail to do.
His fight’s and his scenes alone still bring hype on rewatching dbs or watching others react to the show. Something that the other arcs fail to do on second or third rewatching.
Even before the start of the ToP, you feel his presence when Goku first meets him. Right a way you think "How the fuck will Goku even beat him?" And you keep thinking that til their 3rd fight, but even then Goku alone still cant beat him.
Andres ACOSTA he commanded presence only briefly to me because he lacked any other qualities. I feel as though Madara from Naruto was him done better. Both were stupidly op in their series but Madara had personality, a goal, hype and a good backstory. Jiren only had hype
Most antagonist failed to do name one except zamasu
One Punch Fish zamasu did not command any presence, regular zamasu got tossed around like a rag doll only being saved by immortality and black wouldn’t have been a threat if goku and vegeta worked together.
Like wise merged zamasu was injured by kaio ken goku and fodderized by vegito and trunks.
Jiren on the other hand kept on impressing viewers with his strength and putting on a good show. His fight against goku brought down all streaming services that’s how hype he and his fights are
carlackersii tbh madara is ruined for me thanks to black zetsu bs bc ig made madara look like a huge moron being used so casually. It devalued his achievements bc it was all “planned” idk but ever since black zetsu revelation on rewatches I don’t get as hyped anymore bc i know that he is getting played just as badly as everyone else.
Tho i will admit the two meteors scenes are still the exception as that shit will never get old lol
The only time I thought Jiren's character was interesting when he tried killing Goku's friends. It was one of the few times he showed actual character.
5:27
...El Hermano?
yes
@@serpant333 Que? No hablas Inglés, lo siento.
@@bwackbeedows3629 si el hermano
A way to start improving Jiren's character is have Universe 7 come up against opponents that they struggle with, have then disengage through various means only to run into Jiren, actively looking for opponents to "get this over with quickly", who proceeds to no sell every technique that made Universe 7 struggle.
Just finished the Video. Amazing as always Mark!
Hey, for the next one, could you do Buu.
He’s always been my favorite and I’d love to see an analysis like this done for him.
I think one of the best examples of suspense is the show Ladybug and Cat Noir. If you don’t know, a boy and a girl are given an item that transforms them to heroes. Kinda basic, but a, and maybe THE major plot point is that they don’t know who each other’s alternate egos are though they look the exact same with masks, and the kicker, she’s in love with him, but not as Cat Noir, and he’s in love with ladybug, but not necessarily her. In normal life, as u see her try and express to him she loves him or as heroes when they may realize who the other is makes u grip your seat. And without that dynamic, the show wouldn’t be anywhere close to what it is now. Thanks for reading my TED talk.
This arc supposed to be Goku as antagonist and Jiren as protogonist. It is started like that. They gave us hints about a warrior so strong fighting for justice. And goku was shown as a villian at the exhabition matches. Even goku said "Come at me with everything you have, i will defeat you!"
This is a line where a villian will say. After tournament started it all failed somehow... Jiren should have stepped up the challange. True redemption of goku should be winning the tournament and reviving everyone.
It really wasn't though.
I think you don't know what protagonist and antagonist means
Protagonist is only main character and antagonist is just character who is againts protagonist so good and evil doesn't mean protagonist and antagonist
Example:light yagami is protagonist since story is about him but he is villain and L is antagonist since he is againts light but he is hero
I struggle to even call Jiren a "character"...he's a plot point that just kind of occurs during the story. He's "big numbers!" in humanoid form with 0 personality or anything else to make him interesting.
I liked Jiren. He starts out just there. But then when he wakes up to fight Goku in episode 109 he's awesome.
That's a really weak reason to like a character ngl...
Terrible... No? Just handled poorly.
Perhaps I should watch the video first. But there is something to like about him. Likely not as an antagonist though.
Terrible maybe an overstatement but the majority of us were disappointed by how he was squandered. The disappointment in Jiren personally lingers more for me than all his positive qualities - especially the potential he had.
The terrible backstory and his new year nerf ruined jiren for me
@@j0hnc00 I completely agree. He's a very disappointing character, but for me personally, there was the glimmer of hope for his character a points. Like after besting Vegeta and his second fight with ultra instinct where he becomes unusually desperate to end his fight with Goku. That and he's actually quite terrifying at times during the last few minutes of the Tournament of Power.
Hell. Frankly I hate Tien during that arc more because they didn't do anything with him! But that's a personal bias talking.
@@j0hnc00 the backstory wasn't awful to me. It solidified why he only trusts himself and doesn't really fool with others. The guy killing his family isn't what we were supposed to pay attention to in the backstory it was the fact that he trained for years with people who he called friends to fight the guy only to have every last one of them abandon him when it was time to fight. That was what the backstory was about.
He isn't terrible
Just mediocre
@@HazzyFcrazy then I have to say that was poorly expressed
i personally found jiren extremely cool and although i do agree he shud have been involved in more , i think that it was fine to have him as a "passive antagonist".
Jiren was an interesting character only at the end. I prefer his manga backstory however to his anime one. Its straightforward, more realistic, and ties in with his character, and his lack of care for his teammates. I wish the manga kinda of expounded more upon this, because that's a great insight into his character, and a flaw that leaves open a lot of good character building for him. Super has a lot of great potential, but it has some serious writing flaws that needed to be worked on.
3:53 You made all of us low our volumes, you got us well lol.
Jiren built like an upside down isosceles triangle
Jiren is basically Dragon Ball's equivalent of Infinite from the Sonic franchise- a lot of hype, but in the end, both characters end up to be revealed as CRIMINALLY boring. At least, Jiren actually has enough power to make the fights with him intense and gripping, while Infinite's power was interesting, but his bosses look easy and don't offer much in terms of what his true potential can be.
What if Toppo was the antagonist of the arc? He was established before the actual tournament, showed off his skills and interacted with Goku which portrayed him more of a hero with his own agenda. We know he values justice and companions so when he decides to disregard those values because his universe is getting closer to destruction, it makes sense without the need of a backstory. We know his personality but when pushed to the extreme, it creates more urgency to the story. And being a candidate for god of destruction creates tension rather than Jiren being just really strong. You know Toppo had to go through a harsh training so that explains his power.
Toppo and Jiren share similar arcs in the ToP but I think Toppo's could've been more organic and not at the last minute like with Jiren. Probably a more satisfaying final boss and intriguing character arc that lasted the entire arc as opposed to the last 3 episodes.
I'd say the best intro scene would be him on the same planet as his regular intro, but he's being overrun by monsters, each with special abilities and weaknesses. With his far superior reactions and eyesight, Jiren finds the ones with abilities unique enough to them to actually pose a danger through some means and through quick, focused Glares, he destroys those before focusing on the horde in front of them and demolishing them in a single strike (Like he did against Maji Kayo.) before flying away into a Pride Trooper spacecraft, leaving the leveled place he was in behind to meet up with Toppo and the others. Then, the only real change I'd have is a few minor ones, like perhaps having Toppo, in the ToP arena, asking Jiren how his mission went and he just says "I got rid of the pests." Any other changes I'd have would be relating to other characters, and perhaps making someone else the final antagonist.
Jiren was made OP with no explanation
the tournament started with the wrong foot by being a battle royale
He was gr8, the show has been trying to get thr point of Whis-" There is FAR more to strength than power." He was the definition of this lol
my main problem with jiren is that he has a personality but just does not use it he has a whole ideology that counters goku but he does not use it till the last 4 seconds if he used it and displayed his ideology throughout the whole T.O.P arc we would have conflict to opposite ideology's and personality's clashing to see whose's is right
I think Jiren is an amazing character if you use the anime and the manga together.
I also think his background was absolute dogshit and in need of fixing.
Jiren is actually interesting because its the first time Goku has fought against someone who is geniunely a better, nicer and gooder guy than Goku is. (Ignoring that nonsense where Jiren attacked the stands which makes no sense since the god damn angels and grand priest were around who are hundreds of trillions of times stronger than Jiren)
I think it was well done in that Goku used an insanely powerful Genki Dama/Spirit Bomb to blast Jiren and It failed really easily... almost as though the Genki Dama/Spirit Bomb designed to destroy evil failed to work on a guy who is very very good and honorable.. Goku was the bad guy in the tournament of power, Jiren was trying to save his universe and Would have sacrificed himself if it meant all the universes got to live, Goku would never ever ever do that. Jiren however desires one thing above all others and that is his masters resurrection. I really think Jiren being torn between his honour and his desire to show that he is worthy to his master is just amazing, but no one will ever get it... Same as no one understands Vegeta and just thinks hes throwing a tantrum every time or sooking/crying when he can't beat Goku... People don't get the character development and they never will and it kinda annoys me.
I agree that the manga has a more captivating Jiren. Not that Goku is evil, (Goku himself sacrificed his life to save Earth from Cell, and asked for the tournament in the first place so the other universes can have a fighting chance of survival; nobody ever wants to bring that up though.)
“Same as no one understands vegeta”
Reaching a bit too much there dude? Most db fans who followed the series can understand vegeta. His pride, his frustration at being the second best, and his constant terrible mistakes. You seriously cannot compare jiren to vegeta. Unlike jiren, who’s just a block, vegeta actually grew and became better. And the right way.
Jiren is like the brute enforcer of the main bad, but there is no main bad
I actually greatly disliked Dragon Ball Super. All of the stakes were very artificial. I didn't find the never-ending series of fighting tournaments, that Super turned out to be, compelling or interesting. It was just the same thing over and over again, with Goku Black being the only exception.
Tournament was boring and repetative. Most of the fight scenes were just cut and paste
It’s why I still believe GT was better.
Feel a tad bit the same with the Goku Black arc.
@@saiyan24
In GT the writes were actually trying to write a story... it also helps that GT is an actual sequel, and not a midquel.
Fighting tournaments were always my least favorite anime story trope.
Jiren was the most boring, gary stu -ish antagonists in Dragon Ball's history. I hated him.
45 jhongalt : jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja jajajaja Goku it's the Gary stu the men
He is a antagonist he needs to be a gary stu.
na, the worst one was dbs broly, it was the same as jiren but with autism and no sense power ups
Jiren is a beast! Wish I saw the poll. Really can't see how people dont like him.
Because it comes down to more than just how cool you are.
@@CometX-ing or how strong you are
Keenan Moore I don’t like him because he’s just a copy paste origin story of Superman, and the fan made creation of Jiren the Grey in Mexico El Hermano was a better written character.
If Jiren went around talking to people about his problems not only would that make him just like every other fighter in the tournament but contradict his beliefs in not trusting or dealing with other people. Jiren was awesome the way he was.
Jiren is a BAMF and his story was shoved into the arc in the very ending. The reason Jiren is the baddest dude is because he’s not a villain, he doesn’t have a million year old grudge, he doesn’t care to rule and he doesn’t give a rats about fame and glory. He’s just willing to do anything to obtain absolute strength and his hands are rated E for EVERYONE. I was actually going for him tbh. Jiren’s biggest weaknesses were the writers. 🤷🏽♂️
Vic Diesel They tried to shoehorn in “friends forever” bullshit to make U7 the “good guys”.
They did with new Broly what they should have done with Jiren. Broly was the protagonist of the movie, he was just an enraged dude trying to survive; Jiren could have been the same, some chill dude trying to beat Goku because the moron put his universe at risk, but instead we got this, someone who doesn't seem to care about anything at all, despite stating that he only entered the tournament to save his universe. If Jiren was given agency and put in the protag spotlight everyone would have loved him, he was OP as fuck.
Every time they talk about Jared who is his personality character or his feats the moment they're done talking about it we're either introduced to an image or flashback
whenever someone says suspense in youtube, hitchcock knows that's his cue
I mean if you are speaking in a narrative sense the antagonist of the arc is Zen-Oh. He is the one who poses a direct threat to the way of life of all participants in the tournament and there would be no threat if he did not create the conflict and Zen-oh is quite a compelling antagonist because he is not inherently evil. Jiren would be considered a foil to Goku, they are two people of opposite personality, but of similar talent, in the same situation, with the same goal, pitted against each other. Jiren is not an antagonist.
Sure Jiren's character was bland. But seeing him getting motivated by his teammates the same way gokus friends did was refreshing.
Even if he was quite generic as a character, you've gotta admit that the way he fought the battle was something that not many fights wouldve ended out. Jiren is literally the only antagonist in DBS to be beaten by mortal power (SSJ and Final Form Frieza)
The thing is, theres a huge difference between
A) jiren and his arc (T.o.P) in a vacuum
B) Jiren, compared to other antagonists of the series
In scenario A), i frickin loved jiren. Sure his backstory and motivations were a bit lackluster, but it was so refreshing to have a stoic, realistic, non-hyper character. It contrasted greatly against the T.o.P.'s background (lots of characters in very active conversation and fighting) to have him just sit there, meditating. It set up how much stronger he was - not unlike Frieza's introduction just after the saiyan saga - but without the evil schemes and laughs
On the other hand, in scenario B), jiren is a much more forgettable character. Frieza and Cell are obviously better, and while i wouldnt put jiren quite as low as majin buu... i would put him behind the likes of Omega Shenron and Baby/dr.mew from GT, especially considering how lackluster his backstory is
CLG Skrypt - Finally, someone who shares the same opinion! His nature is a breath of fresh air and his power is exhilarating, but he’s pretty tame, otherwise. Personally, that’s enough for me to like him, but he does need additional development. The arc itself gave him little opportunity to do so.
Stupid jirentard.
@@brolysama6671 What the fuck are you going on about? They're giving their reasons why they like Jiren, while also stating that he could be better. They're not the cunts who shout, "oH, JiReN mAkEs Me wEt BeCaUsE hE's STRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
@@simplyskrypt3914 I seriously can't put Omega Shenron (especially Omega Shenron)or Baby from GT above anything in all of Dragon Ball. Going back & watching those, it was shocking how much worse it was than I remember...and I didn't even enjoy them at the time, I just had some good memories of specific moments. But in reality, there's no real back story or character arc for them either, and Omega Shenron was a joke. They gave more of a character arc & story to the one dragon that used sun/heat powers than they did Omega Shenron
If Jiren's character was executed better, T.O.P might have been the strongest arc of Super.
Why is Seth from Street Fighter IV wearing Picard's clothes ?
"Jiren the Generic" is what I dubbed him.
He's really not a bad character, but his story is so overused. The "haunted-by-my-past-so-I-must-be-the-strongest" thing is used everywhere. Once you see this story for the first few times, it's okay. But when you've seen it dozens of times? No. No, it is not fun anymore. It's not a plot twist. It's just an "Oh, that guy" situation.
I got to say using BBC's Sherlock is the worst version of Sherlock to use as an example of show don't tell characterization because he is by far the pinnacle of "unintelligent people trying to write intelligent characters and failing"
Moriarty's also a shitty villain in that show. He literally spent his entire arc disassembling his own criminal Empire himself and then kills himself at the end because he's mad that his crush didn't reciprocate his feelings.
Yeah. Why tf would one use BBC Sherlock.
Conrad Kujur hbomberguy made a video about it and now people think its bad
@Conrad Kujur well if other people think it's good then it MUST be good! It wouldnt be "well regarded" if it wasnt good after all.
Or it could be hot trash and the only people who like it are people who've never read a sherlock holmes story in their entire lives
You might want to analyze why super saiyan works because I think its interesting how they make these deus ex machina fell satisfactory.
Jiren being impossibly hard to beat in those last episodes of Super was honestly so annoying. I felt exhausted by every one of his power ups. he really just felt like a random from another universe who just happens to be more powerful than Goku, his only purpose is to stop Goku from winning easily. great foundation for a convincing fight, right?
Jiren gives more of a "What the fuck is this shit" energy.
I was hoping the tournament was going to be a farce so that the angels would revolt because some bullshit like they are never in the same space at one time.
I kinda find it funny that Goku legit beat Jiren so bad he actually gave him a personality near the end
Goku and frieza.
Ultra Instinct I was talking about the ui Goku Vs Jiren fight but that too
@@igg7865 oh okay.
@@igg7865 True lol Jiren became a really dope character later in the saga
Col Friday yeah he was kinda chill lmao
"What kind of half-assed backstory is that?"
-Vaccine Man
Good reference )))
Even vaccine man had more personality than jiren
horaciosi I’m sure Piccolo’s is far superior.
horaciosi I’m sure Piccolo’s is far superior.
no way.. is that.. a ONE PUNCH MAN REFERENCE!?
Jiren: This is my fullpower
*goku goes mui*
Jiren: okay I lied I was holding back again...
I get the joke but ocd is making me do this anyway, it was jiren’s current full power. Goku’s personality awakened a new power in jiren equal to mui. The only reason it wasn’t close in the end is cause jiren made goku mad
It's like that for every villain in Dragon ball z super. They always say "This isn't my final form" when their close to defeat just for goku to power up even more. At least in the past he had to earn it or goku either died or was too injured for 20 episodes so someone else had to step in which was gohan or vegeta.
I think goku should have lost and not gained full mui this fight, Jiren should have definitely won. Then at the end he would reconsider: Revive my master? Or accept the fact that he died, knowing that his master would have been proud of him, thus making the decision of reviving all of the universes. Would have made his character soooooo much more likable. Still my favorite character besides broly because of how badass he is tho lol
@@uhhhidk2238 hell no jiren is just strong for no reason just so goku has a obstacle he was a non needed character I would rather have frieza turn on everyone at the end
GodOfCreation 21 but that would have given Jiren character. They definitely tried by giving build up and giving him a backstory, and then having him respect goku at the end. If you’re just gonna spit nonsense then don’t reply
The problem with Jiren is that for 99% of his screen time, he's not a character. He's a wall, a block, a gate. He's only there to block progress and because he was told to, nothing else. You can't make a wall engaging.
He was just there so goku can get stronger
Tell that to the classic spiderman villain: The Wall.
Tell that to Pink Floyd's "The Wall"
@@NightmareZzK it's not his appearance it's the fact that he does nothing until UI goku shows up then after that nothing again until UI goku shows then nothing again until he has no choice but to fight goku because they're the last 2 teams left then near the end of the arc finally gets a character and after his backstory is revealed starts trash talking and smiling. Jiren didn't give us anything about his character outside of "I'm strong" until the end where BELMOND has to do it for him. And his backstory doesn't match his trust issues at all everyone he knows and cares about is slaughtered in front of him and the few survivors left know they can't win and jiren tries to get them to fight the guy again which is suicide. So he loses trust in people because they rode with him into battle the first time and got absolutely slaughtered so they don't want to fight the dude a week later and that's betrayal? It would've been better if Jiren and the students went back but left Jiren to die while they ran away that causes trauma and leads to major trust issues. That would've made his "power over friendship" more believable.
@@theallmightyz4594 idc my comments is old as fuck
Problem with Jiren is he's literally just a walking power level to give Goku his next asspull.
who wasn't?
Then so was Freeza, SSJ. So was Cell when Goku got ridiculously stronger in the Cell Arc (moreso for Gohan in this arc though) So was Buu, Goku got SSJ3. So was Beerus, Super Saiyan God. Hit with SSB Kaio-Ken. So was Jiren
Eh, it wasn't really one with Frieza, though. It was the culmination of the whole story of the form Frieza feared that Vegeta had been mentioning over and over throughout the arc.
Four
PsychoticPurse 6 But those characters had personality. They were *villains* with no qualms killing any and everyone around just for fun or for their goals. Yea In hindsight you could say they’re all just a catalyst for Gokus new asspull but at the time they didn’t feel that way. But Jiren is so obviously that and he’s not even fun to watch. He hardly speaks, he does nothing for the longest time, his design compared to the Z villains and even the movie villains is so plain and boring most of the fandom only likes him because “He stronk, he fight Goku real good, he real stronk.”
Jiren's story is so generic his enemy didn't even get a name
sreddi83 an evil doer
Uh, el hermano
He didn't need a tragic back story, his motivation should have been Goku was the villain due to him starting the TOP & Jiren wanted to stop him in the name of justice, The Pride Troopers are Super Heroes, the Z Fighters are not.
@@Ultizer Yeah that's why Frieza's interactions with the Pride Troopers were much more enjoyable than any of the Z-fighters.
They should have just gone the whole way revived Cell and have a side-plot of him Eating the Troopers 'It's not killing them so it's allowed', then conflict being let Cell reach Jiren's power or put an end to this
I feel like that's a seed for future narrative.
Jiren looks less like a villain and resembles more of a basic training character model in a fighting game circa. 1999
Rise of The Robots and Pepsiman lmao
Ian dilorenzo : You stupid men You shit y You dead
Jiren is not a villain. He was only a participant at the tournament.
@Moisés Silva lol so true.
Pride Troopers are heroes in their galaxy.
@Moisés Silva so if you had to beat someone or everyone you ever loved would die would you see your enemy as a good person? And if yes when you learn he does not care if the other universes die is he still a good person?
The thing is, everything was set up perfectly for this arc. Jiren is a literal superhero in the show. And Goku was scapegoated as a "villain" early in this arc, with the other Universes believing he was responsible for the tournament. Team 7 has a roster of former/currant villains: Piccolo, the androids, Vegeta, and, of course, the infamous Frieza. Sooooo… Jiren should be PISSED and out to punish the evil Universe 7, believing Goku is in league with Frieza and Prince Vegeta (Frieza did historically hire Saiyans). It would be the perfect ironic role reversal... and they did nothing with it. Jiren not caring if everyone died was not in character with his backstory or his actual job(saving people).
Yeah that's what we were all expecting when the TOP was starting. Idk why they didn't follow up on it. I like the angle you mentioned of Gokus team being full of villains.
Yeah mate, fucking hell that wouldve been awesome and with Goku trying to convince him aswell I'd like to have seen him try.
Why would they write a faction of the absolute best boy superheroes in the multiverse and then put a bland dragon ball bad guy at the too
Why
I dont think Jiren is nonchalant about whether people live or die, he was just being pressured so hard by Goku that he was willing to do almost anything to beat him, because to Jiren, losing equated to experiencing his youth again. If a victim of years of torture equated losing to being strapped to a chair and tortured again, they would likely do something similar. He saw the people in the stadium as the source of Goku's strength, so he sought to eliminate them to weaken Goku.
Jiren's "actual job" is not saving people. He literally states that his desire is to seek that which lies beyond strength, not save people. He even treats his own universe with contempt because he has no trust in anyone weaker than him. Which because he's the strongest means he doesn't trust anyone.
Jiren has no character at all. He's a walking power level.
Lol
right here. I cant even call him a character.
Idiot he’s just a walking steroid
Owari da! :P
Literally a walking mass of muscles
"What people tell about the character," can go a long way. People should remember the first 1/3 of John Wick was literally just everyone shitting their pants over hearing his name, telling stories about him & bringing up past stories of his legend without him doing much of anything.
And it worked wonderfully, as it showed you this guy was going to eventually make everyone's life a living hell.
I was looking for this, cause it definitely worked. I think it's because we aren't given too much info about him at first, but we see his routine after he experiences the death of a loved one. We instantly understand and see that his world has changed and he's grieving. Then as we hear different people panic and talk about him, we see that he's uncovering something in the basement. There's more to this seemingly quiet and reserved guy than we were shown, and we're drawn in and ready to see how he reacts to the people who hurt him. It's not easy an easy introduction to pull off, but it shouldn't be ruled out so quickly.
The big difference is that there is still a ton of show don't tell in John Wick. Simple things like his car, his home, appearance and lifestyle shows you some hints into his character and how strong he is. We know he's an assassin, and considering how expensive his belongings look, he had to have been a pretty good one. Jiren had nothing besides his incredibly bland design. And when people like mafia leaders gush about how dangerous John Wick is, we're given far better dialogue and suspense than someone just saying "Jiren is soooooooooooooo strong".
That’s something I don’t understand about this video. His introduction was fine and just because it wasn’t conventional or by the books doesn’t mean it’s bad. He wasn’t a conventional villain, his premise was a Hero who was participating out of obligation, he doesn’t need to be evil like a conventional villain. I still do admit that they wasted this perfect groundwork for his character.
@@nattylight512 Agreed. The didn't nail the payoffs, but the introduction and setup were perfectly fine. The legend and hype surrounding him doesnt have to come from him or what he's doing whatsoever.
I still think the villain was setup to be Goku, but in the end they got cold feet and didn't follow through. They opted to change course, and it threw off the story
@@nattylight512 He doesn't need to be evil, but we know NOTHING about him. Why isn't he interested? Is it because he doesn't care about the fate of his own Universe? Is it because he is overconfident that he will win? And even then, how does he feel about fighting knowing that other universes are going to get erased?
If he is supposed to be a hero, he should act like one. He should have been given a bit of Toppo's personality, hating on Goku and even on the gods. Saying something like he hates them. He shouldn't be meditating calmly. He should have been furious.
The exposition was weak. We should have seen him do something even before the tournament. Just 1 thing. Like save a cat, eat ramen, take a shower, let a kid get run over by a bus and do nothing to save them, getting lectured by Toppo, cosplay, look at a picture of his dead master and ripping it apart, fail at his duty as a Pride Trooper because "now that the multiverse is in peril, the Gods have shown is that the pursuit of Justice is overrated, only strength matters, I quit the Pride Troopers, see you losers at the tournament. And Toppo, even as a subsitute God of Destruction, you are WEAK!", kill a villain because he doesn't believe in justice, seeing a guy that the other Troopers had trouble catching shit his pants when hearing "Jiren is coming"...
Anything would have been better really.
Also his design looks like a template character wearing an Adidas tracksuit
🤣🤣
ultimatewaybig10 lol
Think he likes hard bass?
Slavs are the most powerful fighters in the universe. Their power goes beyond your mortal understanding
@@usaccdecks8363 it comes from squatting. Squatting Cuts off all circulation to legs, giving slav 2 legs worth of extra blood to use for punching with arms.
jiren's character is that he's strong
"what do you do"
"strong"
"what do you want"
"strong"
"where do you come from"
"strong"
"is there anything about you that isn't 'strong?'"
"strong"
He atacc,
He atacc,
But most importantly,
He atacc.
Stronk?
Hey honey, I was thinking we could go out for dinner tonight!
Is there a place that sounds good to you?
"Strong."
Um, wha--
*"STRONG!"*
Tetsuo Umezawa I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive. I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive. I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive. I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive
Ian Knight Well, Saitama actually has a personality.
All they had to do was give Jiren an interesting personality to make him work.
The first time we're introduced to Vegeta, he is seen eating *SOMEONE* he just killed.
You would too under harsh conditions
@@mirsadajdari Under harsh conditions? He was born evil not because of frieza
@@Mimhere That's the point dingus.
@Johnny Serrano Barraza 👍
@Johnny Serrano Barraza He works under Frieza, he's by no means desperate for food or shelter and definitely not in "harsh conditions" as many people for some reason (?) seem to make it out to be. The dude's just an asshole, he thinks of the local animals (people?) as a pitstop.
What would’ve made Jiren more interesting, is if instead of his “friends” failing him, the Gods failed him. He prayed to them to save his family, but didn’t answer, so he went on a journey to become stronger than the very Gods he once worshipped.
@Majin Vegeta. We answer the call when needed.
@Majin Vegeta Because Jiren is the blankest blank slate ever created and almost *anything* would be an improvement.
Jiren is a lot better in the manga who's actually a heroic and sympathetic figure. But that does not excuse toeis decision to make jiren a thicc personality lacking power wall.
Better yet have him become a God killer to seek those who had wronged him
@@299-x7b and he was added to his Universe's roster in the hopes that someone would actually kill him so the gods weren't facing a threat?
"Did you enjoy Jiren's character?"
What character?
Jirentards are going to attack you soon I bet.
All I saw was a power level
Broly sama don’t have to be disrespectful to Jiren fans though...
@@brolysama6671 Let's not pretend there are "Jirentards". You're just hating on people who like the character.
TNM says it best. Jiren has a character arc, but it only lasts two episodes.
So he has a character to enjoy, and I do...but that's two episodes. Besides that, he had a plain backstory, desire to get stronger, and we know what wish he wants before the finale. Literally the bare minimum before his real character broke out for the climax.
You don't like or dislike Jiren? So... You could say your feelings about him are in a... Grey area?
I'll see myself out.
Damn, that puns almost as bad as jiren character
Wow, that puns almost as bad as jiren personality.
@@athifarif9724 I think you're not suppose to see Jiren's personality because he simply doesn't care about anything, he is simply an all-powerful character who is deeply and truly indifferent to everything that is going on around him. So he crosses his arms as an expression of this, and heck, might as well go sit in the corner somewhere being a wall flower, waiting to fight the toughest character, whom he suspects will be Goku in the end...that would have been great. I would have liked to see more of that, or seen it be play off better, but yeah...it's not his personality that suffers, it's his character, and motive.
Amber Slahlize what
Amber Slahlize Imma copy & paste this everywhere.
-So, what are your character traits?
-Strong
-Oh.. Well, so what's your character arc like?
-Fighting
-Ummm that's not a...Well alright. Uh, what's your backstory?
-Death
-Jesus do you at least have some kind of motif in this story??
-Power
@c that was the same thought I was actually thinking about.
You described Dragonball Z onward.
Dbz characters arent complicated what i hate is how he lost he should have destroyed goku and been better written
In a sense that is literally Goku's backstory
Vergil
Tbh Toppo made more sense becoming the "villain" of the arc, him having to abandon his sense of Justice that he lived by, and become a God of Destruction, the very thing that he hated to have any hope of his universe surviving, granted I liked how Vegeta was the one to defeat him, he himself given up his pride and becoming Majin Vegeta in the past (although the actual fight with Jiren was pretty cool, he was just pretty weak character wise)
Not a villain he’d be an antagonists
@@kloutgodd8585 Yeah, my bad.
Raging Raving I agree. I also feel like having Goku beat an actual GoD (even though he’s just a candidate) would have been better because DBS started with Beerus as the main antagonist, so it should end (at least for now) with a GoD as the main antagonist and Goku finally surpassing that level.
King H I agree. Regardless on whether he’s the main antagonist or the second fiddle, the whole Majin Vegeta thing would of made the fight a lot better imo.
He used the move/technique final explosion. Vegeta didnt become maijn again. You need babidis magic.
And we can't forget that Jiren is Low Tier in Dragon Ball FighterZ.
HAHA!
His moveset is so dull
Season 3 is fixing him with frame data and damage balancing, which is the bitch's way of staying relevant
@@Sorrelhas he's mid tier now in my opinion
Not anymore tho. Mid tier
What a fighterz character NEEDS.
Ariel launcher.
Multiple supers.
A special skill that's an overhead.
A level 5
Maybe a level 7?
Jonatan Pedroso and on xenoverse has the worst back hit In the game
Jiren looks like if you took Freiza's buff form, removed the textures, gave it bug eyes, and stuck it in an X-men uniform that Deadpool vandalized
so... by doing a lot to it
@@mooganify I thought he looked like a weird Frieza
Underrated comment
Please we don't do that here cause Jiren better if we talk about differentiation, Every Dragon ball character is like copy and past tien gohan piccolo goku all look the same
His design is Infuriating for me to look at. So uninteresting
Jiren the Grey is a perfect name for the most boring character in anime let alone DBZ.
DBS
@@deaphz5087
Oops, how embarrassing
Spider-Man and his amazing friends! I thought your pfp was a super sayian rage trunks lol
@@grosslyDese2060 lmaooo
not really, its a really cool name for a swordsman but ok
*_Jiren is the worst antagonist? I thought Prince Charming from Shrek 3 was the worst antagonist in anime history._*
His cherry flavored chapstick is a planet buster
Friendship oh please at least he had a character despite being stupid and easily manipulated
@@kiranbharadia He was in both 2 and 3. The dude was literally the main villain of 3
Friendship I c someone watches schrafrillas productions
*BLASPHEMY!!!!!*
But seriously, he should have stayed a minor antagonist.
I just realized, Jiren is Plank from Ed Edd & Eddy. He's an unmoving hunk of wood whose personality is literally what other people imposed on him. Then he started moving; that was his only difference as far as I care.
Jiren is buddha no attachments whatsoever
No, Plank actually has more personality than jiren.
@@sketchydude8431 True; at least Plank smiled.
That’s a serious stretch
How dare you insult Plank like that.😤
But seriously, that's a perfect comparison.
Jiren is just strong, only thing that he is.
Personality, motivation, ideals and more. That's what makes a good character.
He has might. Might controls... Everything
He created great tension but his character and back story was just awful.
Ginsai issue is even the story didn’t really respond to the tension. He destroyed a major warrior pretty easily and... well everyone hoped he would just sit down and meditate until everything was over.
That didn’t seem believable to me and is pretty much as anti-climatic as it comes, in that he had pretty much zero presence unless he was slapping Goku around like a used teenagers sock.
Yeah, I wouldn’t have minded the fairly bland backstory as much, if he did more then posture and occasionally blink at something. One good thing about the manga was that he didn’t spend so much time just loading around.
The story Belmond told about Jiren felt very forced. We had tens of episodes of fighting and then out of the sudden the Anime was like ''STORY TIME''. It is like Toei realised in between the episodes that they messed up and then used an emergency plan.
It may not have really done anything that would have changed people's minds about the guy but I feel it would have been better if he just didn't have his backstory explained at all. Leave it a mystery for people to speculate over. Maybe elude to what he's about at the end when Goku has his back to a wall but never really go in depth so we'll be teased until his next appearance. Assuming we ever see him again when they get back to producing weekly episodes that is.
It wouldn't have felt forced if he actually displayed personality that intrigued the audience prior to the revelation of his past. Like some of the Juppongatana in Rurouni Kenshin.
One Thing Dragon ball is Anime that follows a Kind of Storyline of Fights evolving Fights to resolve Things.
Jiren from the Beginning was stated that is not a Villain. In Universe 11 Jiren is a Warrior a Police a Troop he Saves Lives by defeating bad guys , Villains or any other Kind of Bad People. That is the Pride Troopers.
The Tournament Decide who Lives. The Tension was always there because of the Rumor of Someone that is Stronger than Beerus and Beerus is Stronger than Goku. Their Lives are on the Line because they Can be Defeated and erased at any Moment after Jiren Came out.
One Thing is Impossible to everyone one have a Great Background or Backstory in Real Life and Animes Copy Real Life but they Put Fictional Things in it. Jiren Doesn't Have a Great a Big Backstory is Story is a Little Tragedy Story. But he Have Something that is Character is Really good at and that is his Strength and Power that No one have. He is Originally not a Villain so he never was Suppose to be Like Frieza or Cell or King Picollo because all of the Bad Guys are Not Totally Equal.
Jiren Made us feel Like we are Doomed since we follow the Story of Goku of the Universe 7.
Is Impossible to Have a Character that is Good in Everything I mean Everything.
That one Thing that Jiren is Good is Enough. Is Batlle Skills and Power. Don't go watch a Movie or Anime just for Story and don't watch just for Fights.
Then they had him decide to fire off at the crowd for no reason, just to make him look villainous. You can be an arrogant antisocial asshole without needing to do anything villainous.
@@Draylin41 with a character as boring as jiren, it would not have really created any sort of mystery. it would have merely amplified how little he actually matters and how little they thought him out.
TOEI, Toriyama, or whoever might be the responsible for DBS missed a great opportunity in the tournament of power arc. And the saddest thing about that was that, at the begining of the arc, they stablished a very interest concept: Goku as the antagonist of the arc, or in other words, the villain of the saga. Goku was the responsible for getting every one in danger of being erased of the existance with his proposal of the tournament. Everyone was enjoying their life at their best in home with their families and friends, than suddenly, a crazy man comes up with a competition that is going to kill all of the losers, just because that crazy one likes to fight too much. That was interest and was sad that TOEI just didn't care to explore how this change of dynamic would work with Goku facing the fact that 70 fighters of 7 universes, and their gods, see him as a VILLAIN. They just didn't have the guts to do it, right after stablishing this concept, they changed their minds and set up that the idea of erasing all the universes was already made by Zeno or the father of the angels (forgot his name) and at the end of the arc, told us about the selfish nature of Jiren, to come up with a dislikeble antagonist at the very final moments. That's lazy, sad and coward. Tournament of Power could have been memorable and was just... ok... what was at least much more than the whole previous portion of the show.
Well yes and no, in the manga is stablished that Zeno Sama was planning to destroy most of the 12 Universes because he consider them weak, the Tournament of Power give them a chance to survive. In fact... all of them survived.
But again, yes. DBS is just fanservices and powerups mashed togheter, and sadly at least to me, nostalgia is the main reason this series continues.
@@KonEl-BlackZero so in the anime they say Zeno was already planning tô Destroy the weak universes and bla bla bla. Bullshit, as I sair, they Just didnd have the guts to do a not so infatile story.
@@pablodarosa8429 Atleast the fights and animations were on God level. I'm satisfied with that. If I want Story I'll go watch another Anime, and not something like dragonball tbh
@@prometheus5218 why cant we have good fights and story ffs?
@@KonEl-BlackZero Say what you will about GT, but at least it tried to be something new and unique compared to this bullshit.
Jiren is like a boss of 8bit/16bit videogames where he's just strong for the heck of it and not really explained how he got that strong.
100 pushups, 100 squats, 100 situps, and a 10km run. Why they need to explain something that simple?
@@donimmortal7692 and plenty of juice
He is like an rpg boss that the main antagonist sicks on you in a dungeon
@@ashburch4779 just ONE BANANA for food
Uninteresting story, character, design, and abilities. He’s just “stronger than everyone else”, and is “the last of his race, and a person important to him died”. Jiren is if you sanded down all the qualities of a main character to big muscled, bald, gray character-shaped mold.
we need af to be canon in some form cuz.... i want that bad taste out of my mouth from jiren...
at least as a possible timeline in xenoverse
@@_Tzer No thanks. Dragon ball AF was just another fanfiction writing. I didn't like it anymore than Super
@@lapplandkun9273 lol Super was already pretty much a fan-fiction, a terrible one, AF was way better than Super, also just so you know not every fan-fiction is bad, apart from Super of course
@@_Tzer indeed but you need first GT to be canon in order to get AF
@@etam8099 there is a way to make GT canon but you'd need to delay AF so you can reintroduce beerus and god ki, bring piccolo back and tell some backstories so it feels organic
El Hermano is a better antagonist.
Nobody beats El Hermano except Gohan Blanco
@@futuf2265 It's actually Gohan Calvo Blanco who can beat El Hermano.
@@kratos1017 Oh true I forgot the new power up that El Grande Padre gave to him
@Maverick Hunter Zero that's actually true
ESTO ES EL FIN
Yeah ok, but why does almost every Dragon Ball character has gigantic holes in their ears?
Cause we have ear holes ...?
Db seems to have 3 primary ear types. The ear holes (usually reserved for villains and aliens) Human-like, and elf ears. I use to wonder if aliens with those ear types were related, but I just chalk it up to Toriyama recycling ideas.
@@theopulentone1650
My favourite Toriyama character design trope is the giant gem on the forehead, only Frieza, Cell and a handful of villains have it, but i always liked it.
@@matti.8465 I love the gem foreheads too.
@@matti.8465 GemDomes
I still like the theory that akira toriyama hated the goku vs superman deathbattle so he created his own superman and kicked his ass
Well, it didn't fix Deathbattle's understanding of the scaling for either character.
Toriyama being mad that his own characterization traits for Goku were used against him for the Superman Death Battle is very Toriyama
If by kicked his ass you mean couldnt beat him in a 1v1
@@dom2752 pretty much
@@23jakesmith23I mean, not saying that he maybe did not made him a little bit like that, but the award for making him look even more like superman goes to the english dub
jiren was a great mystery character and then his backstory was told lol
One Thing Dragon ball is Anime that follows a Kind of Storyline of Fights evolving Fights to resolve Things.
Jiren from the Beginning was stated that is not a Villain. In Universe 11 Jiren is a Warrior a Police a Troop he Saves Lives by defeating bad guys , Villains or any other Kind of Bad People. That is the Pride Troopers.
The Tournament Decide who Lives. The Tension was always there because of the Rumor of Someone that is Stronger than Beerus and Beerus is Stronger than Goku. Their Lives are on the Line because they Can be Defeated and erased at any Moment after Jiren Came out.
One Thing is Impossible to everyone one have a Great Background or Backstory in Real Life and Animes Copy Real Life but they Put Fictional Things in it. Jiren Doesn't Have a Great a Big Backstory is Story is a Little Tragedy Story. But he Have Something that is Character is Really good at and that is his Strength and Power that No one have. He is Originally not a Villain so he never was Suppose to be Like Frieza or Cell or King Picollo because all of the Bad Guys are Not Totally Equal.
Jiren Made us feel Like we are Doomed since we follow the Story of Goku of the Universe 7.
Is Impossible to Have a Character that is Good in Everything I mean Everything.
That one Thing that Jiren is Good is Enough. Is Batlle Skills and Power. Don't go watch a Movie or Anime just for Story and don't watch just for Fights.
This so much... Jiren was the embodiment of a unrivaled super Alien warrior. Then Belmond had to explain Jiren is just a poor guy who can't get over the dead of his mentor and parents.
SilenceStabber and his followers didn’t want to follow him into battle so then betrayal made him really strong
i remember when jiren through that punch at goku and demonstrated 1% of his power and shook goku out of his blue form...but they nerfed the shit out of him lol
Lamar Pray his betrayal strength level went down
When you realise that el harmano is better antagonist than jiren.
And that Gohan Blanco would've been a better protagonist than Goku.
It’s been a long time, my dimwit brother
One Thing Dragon ball is Anime that follows a Kind of Storyline of Fights evolving Fights to resolve Things.
Jiren from the Beginning was stated that is not a Villain. In Universe 11 Jiren is a Warrior a Police a Troop he Saves Lives by defeating bad guys , Villains or any other Kind of Bad People. That is the Pride Troopers.
The Tournament Decide who Lives. The Tension was always there because of the Rumor of Someone that is Stronger than Beerus and Beerus is Stronger than Goku. Their Lives are on the Line because they Can be Defeated and erased at any Moment after Jiren Came out.
One Thing is Impossible to everyone one have a Great Background or Backstory in Real Life and Animes Copy Real Life but they Put Fictional Things in it. Jiren Doesn't Have a Great a Big Backstory is Story is a Little Tragedy Story. But he Have Something that is Character is Really good at and that is his Strength and Power that No one have. He is Originally not a Villain so he never was Suppose to be Like Frieza or Cell or King Picollo because all of the Bad Guys are Not Totally Equal.
Jiren Made us feel Like we are Doomed since we follow the Story of Goku of the Universe 7.
Is Impossible to Have a Character that is Good in Everything I mean Everything.
That one Thing that Jiren is Good is Enough. Is Batlle Skills and Power. Don't go watch a Movie or Anime just for Story and don't watch just for Fights.
His introduction in the Cell VS fan videos was gold compared to Jiren's
Itachi 2.0
Yamcha video when, the man needs it.
I second this.
Yamcha at least still exist Launch has basically been erased from existence.
Yamcha: The Forgotten Rival
That will be nice I agree
But like... He's Yamaha, it'll just be talking about how much he sucks lol
I once heard this interesting headcanon that, Jiren was actually the one who unknowingly killed his family and master, thanks to his own immense uncontrollable power.
That *would* explain why everyone just left him
and even MORE explain why in the flashback, he’s completely unharmed when his master was killed
and even MORE MORE explain why the monster didn’t just kill Jiren when Jiren walked in on him in his house with his dead family lying on the floor
What do you all think about it? 🤔
Would also explain why he hate making friends and trusting other so much, he basically kills everyone close to him
Does his immense power also make him schitzophrenic? With his (former) friends as well who also fought this “immense power”? I guess it works if you ignore the backstory