The Buu arc was the final nail in the coffin for me and made me fall out of love with DBZ, if I ever were in love with it in the first place. Buu was absolutely the worst kind of villain; the kind that just makes me completely apathetic, apart from "good god somebody just fucking KILL this guy already". He's like Freddy Kruger in the Nightmare sequels except at least Freddy doesn't stick around for fucking 60+ episodes.
While Gohan's Saiyaman antics were cringe, I kinda felt it was necessary to start off so comedic and light, to give Gohan the chance to have the action-comedy life that his dad had as a kid that Gohan was robbed of. I was okay with the series taking a break from the repetitive conflict structure from the last two arcs. Sadly, the Goku show had to continue.
In hindsight, I kind of like that Ultimate Gohan and fusion had no real effect on the story. It made it feel like the characters were truly desperate and threw everything they had at the wall to see what would stick, and then were faced to deal with reality. But at the end of the day I know it was just Toriyama experimenting and being somewhat careless, lol.
I feel like that's the main problem, nowadays everyone worries way too much about what the creators intention was and that brings the enjoyment down as a whole.
I like this aspect too. I mean, the same thing happens in all of the arcs really. The heroes are always desperately trying things to beat the villain, and they always gain the upper hand for a bit before letting it slip away. Is Piccolo fusing with nail to fight Frieza really necessary? No, other than to force Frieza to use more of his power that he could have used at any point. With Buu, the difference is that he's not just holding back, but doesn't actually have the necessary power to win, so he has to scheme and set a trap to gain said power by absorbing the heroes. In that regard, I feel like that's actually better storytelling! And it explains the huge personality shifts in Buu that were complained about in the video. Buu is still my least favorite arc, but it's also still enjoyable and quintessential DBZ
I think the whole "throwing everything you have at the enemy" thing worked better in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs though. At least, the concept was utilised better. Since Boo regenerates, there is no lasting damage, so it just feels unimportant.
@@AlexanderDiviFilius You could be right there, something that bugged me about Vegeta's sacrifice is that it didn't do anything to Buu. Had it shown a weakness in his regeneration then possibly it would have been ok.
This dude Not to mention that Piccolo fused with Nail is what pushed Frieza to his third form and - eventually - his iconic fourth form in the first place. Granted, Frieza’s third form is completely irrelevent to the story, but still, having him go into his fourth form and helping Goku buy time to charge the spirit bomb are pretty big points.
I like thinking of Buu as a reflection of the main characters. He doesn’t necessarily stand for anything in particular (like Frieza as an emperor or Cell as perfection), but rather reflects what is thrown at him. As our battle-obsessed characters overwhelm him with fighting as their form of ending conflicts, Buu changes from a fun-loving squishy being into a chizzled warrior bent on trying to be the strongest, a character flaw literally absorbed from the main characters.
Also worth mentionning is Piccolo talk's with Videl where he tell her that basically Satan is the savior of the world, having made friends with Buu instead of just trying to beat him.
Tbh, the very beginning of the Buu arc with Gohan meeting Videl in high school was the best part of the entire saga imo. I live for the slice-of-life moments in DBZ, lol.
Yeah,lol,but i guess those ppl got revived from it? I hope they aren't around being made of clay anymore on a house that i don't think anyone uses, lol.
Guilhermessj I assume they got turned back into people from the wish that was made to bring back everyone killed by Majin Buu, the wish must also count for the fat one as well.
Every great franchise, film, TV, anime....if it goes on long enough, that is what it eventually becomes. Single films, and maybe a set of 2-3 films can be pretty darn close to perfect. A mini-series or a limited series or one that doesn't go on TOO long...they can maintain and feel complete and not really have anything that bogs them down. But when you have something like Star Wars(which now includes hundreds of episodes of television on TOP of 11 films)...Dragon Ball(which, all in, even using Kai instead of Z, is at 451 episodes), Star Trek, the Marvel Cinematic Universe....anything. You get to a point where the narrative keeps going further and further away from the initial spark that made it originally work so well....and more and more new concepts and characters get introduced and piled on top of each other, and more and more inconsistencies and flaws pop up, and every new piece runs the inevitable risk of becoming "The weakest entry in the series so far" and that becomes a heavier burden the longer any series goes on. More and more 'weak links' are able to pop up, because they are ultimately supported by the long time fans who also become forgiving. If the type of poor storytelling of the Star Wars Disney Trilogy was found in an ORIGINAL property, it would be quickly forgotten. If the messy plot execution of Super, or the Buu Saga were found in an ORIGINAL property, it would not be a hit series. You get into this "Well, I love PARTS of this franchise/series so much(usually the earlier parts) that I want to keep loving it and love all of it" so you have dedicated fans becoming very forgiving of films and shows. Just as almost every great TV series sees a decline in the storytelling before the series eventually ends.
@Ish Moore I know. The truth hurts, but facts don't care about feelings. The best storytelling in the Dragon Ball Saga happened YEARS ago. The "Fandom" has morphed into a bunch of people who aren't really fans, they just want to be loyal to the brand and "Defend their purchase"
@@j.ronnygibson he has blood of a race lives on fighting it makes no sense to resists a argue thats literally in your blood hell super has gohan saying he is enjoying the fight that goku and toppo is in due to his saiyan blood ok it was peacful ok he is half human but his dad gave his life for gohan to become the protecter he should have train or fought you know evil during the 7 year time gap hell trunks and even krillin have it worse then gohan
Jack Aufenhand it may not be necessary actually. still a favorite form a mine (especially how deep his Kai voice is.) either they could of cut it out or made it last longer, maybe even make it replace his second to make him more monstrous? idk just spitballing
Thats true but at least it had an effect on showing them even more how they are outclassed since when the 3rd Form mopped Piccolo at that Point, how strong would he be if he transforms even further? It was basically for tension
One of the things that will always annoy me about the Buu saga is with Dabura. You introduce the guy as the "Demon King". That was a character with such an absurd amount of wasted potential.
For a guy who was basically the Satan of dragon ball, I find it hard that he can't beat a couple endangered alien species regardless of how strong they are.
My big disappointment with this arc was the fact that the first act clearly set Gohan up as our protagonist, and there were a huge amount of time, story beats, and foreshadowing dedicated to hyping Gohan up as the hero of this story. We got all this time to get to know an older Gohan, see how his life has progressed since Goku died, and the fact that he's seemingly been goofing off and not taking the role of "Earth's defender" seriously. Then he finally unlocks the power needed to defeat the villain (in an admittedly anticlimactic way), only to make the same mistake he'd already made previously in the Cell Arc and lose the fight. Then Goku and Vegita have to make an out of place come back to save the day. The story just kept building to this epic moment for Gohan, and literally removed Goku and Vegita from the main point of prominence in the story, only to pull the rug out from underneath us and have Goku come back to reclaim the spot as the main character. I watched this saga as a teenager and remember feeling like all the story beats and buildup for Gohan at the start of the arc were a waste of my time.
Is it though? I still feel like, unless mr. Satan or any other member of the cast is there to incite him, he would still ignore most criminal acts around him. He went from a problem child manipulated by an evildoer to a problem child under the care of mr. Satan. It's a welcome but unexceptional change, at least to me
Goku will Save Us! *bloop* times up Gotenks will Save Us! *bloop* times up Gohan will Save Us! *bloop* Buu ate everyone! Vegito will Save Us! *bloop* Vegita broke the earring. Super Saiyan 3, Fusion Dance, Unlocking New Powers, Fusion Earrings. Any one of these would've been enough for one arc, but it had all of these.
lol stfu, Akira Toriyama wanted to quit dragon ball after thefreeza arc, and people kept asking for more, so he created the cell arc, and then people AGAIN kept asking for more, which ended up with the buu arc ...
Remember when Goku had to heal inside a bubble machine for 20 episodes? Or that time he spent training while flying through space in a ship because he hadn't learned instant transmission yet? Pepperidge farm remembers.
Just rewatch it as DB Kai and you see, that the fight does not get milked at all. That's because in the original DB, the fight had many filler elements due to catching up the the source material. That means, while the fight in DBZ is 20 parts or something like that, in DBK it's only 4 or 5.
@@wyveriusblackfire3834 yeah but that was literally at the beginning of the damn arc, that's why we begin with a high school life to buu himself. You're using it incorrectly
I noticed he actually held his own against Buutenks at the start. But Gohan was suddenly getting his ass kicked in the opening of the next episode. I always found that a bit strange.
Skooma inna cup rn Welll, i agree that some of this is pretty dumb, but the buu saga does go pretty slow. Just watch the buu saga, it’s still definitely a great arc, but it’s veeeryyyy slow (in comparison to the rest of dbz)
@@TamperedSource It's not a bad arc, just the weakest and he makes fair points. Buu as character is the weakest of them all. His only reason to exist is give an excuse for the insane amount of crazy powerups. "A hero is only as good as his villian" meaning if the villain is weak the entire heroes story falls apart. Look at Vegeta, Frieza, and Cell and compare to them to Buu. It's clear Buu is the weakest in terms of characterization. Vegeta wants to be stronger to avenge the saiyan race, Frieza wants the dragonballs to become immortal because he fears death, Cells entire purpose was to destroy goku to get revenge for his creator. Buu has no goal, no motivation, no kind of personality. He's just a pink blob who absorbs people and likes to kill. Atleast with Babdi buu had a reason to exist but once he was killed off, Buu was just there. He added nothing nor subtracted anything, just a threat that exists.
Vegeta is better than Goku imo, he just makes more sense and isn't as dumb. His raw strength is currently stronger than Goku's and yeah I know Goku has UI but that power can be achieved by almost everyone, he can't activate on command. Vegeta SSBE > Goku SSBKKx20 *because* it doesn't drain as much energy
I adored Buu's inconsistency, his many forms. Buu was described as a destructive being that was just barely contained by a dark magician. And in many regards we saw glimpses of that until he was finally cut free. And unlike all the other villains before him, he was entirely unpredictable. He was pure chaos. And that grew more and more until kid buu. I considered it brilliant. I was indeed never comfortable with this villain. I felt much more fear than I did with any villain prior. Because he was difficult to read and had the power and capacity to make any random and destructive choice. He was horrifying. I loved it.
People forgetting that Buu did what the other villains couldn’t, he literally wiped out the human race and proceeded to blow up the earth. Not even Frieza nor cell could accomplish that. Take that in for a moment
I mean... Technically they could have. Frieza could have went straight to earth popped out and planet vegeta'd it before we went to namek if he chose to. Cell could have definitely just blown the earth up at anytime before he enraged gohan he just chose to do the cell games and play with them.
Frieza and Cell didn’t want to blow up the earth. They could care less. Frieza just wanted immortality. Cell just wanted to make sure he was the best , probably due to his saiyan DNA. He used blowing up the earth as motivation to get the best of his opponents for his tournaments
To use some pro wrestling parlance; Buu wiping out the earth should have been the moment the monster was made. But this angle had so much going on that it became a footnote.
Here's what I think about the Buu arc character wise: Goku needed to learn that he indeed has to stay on Earth in order to protect it. Villains that don't have anything to do with him can show up and totally annihilate those he entrusted Earth to. Vegeta needed to learn that teaming up isn't announcing you're weak. It's admitting that you will overcome any obstacle, including getting outside help. Gohan needed to learn that his dad won't always be there, that Vegeta sometimes won't be enough, and that he needs to take responsibility and step up to the plate if either of them are absent. Piccolo needs to learn to help train the future generation so that situations like Buu don't happen again. And Goten/Trunks need to learn to not rush into things and be cocky/follow the leader. They need to learn that they are responsible for protecting the Earth, but also that they need to learn to take it seriously.
I'd have to disagree on a few of those points. If Goku didn't come back, Buu probably wouldn't have woken up. Piccolo had already trained Gohan personally, he seemed to understand the future generation was going to surpass them but needed his guidance.
goku had a fair point of trusting in the kids power when fused and that, like that, the would be able to defeat fat buy, and they would be ready in the future vegeta fused with Goku once and he was willing to do it at the end as well, and that's totally unexpected coming from him they also messed up with Gohan and yeah, it was pathetic for him to not train throughout the years especially with Goku out of the picture and yeah gotenks is a sin in the arc
I think I agree with you there. Also, I'd add that Goku himself needs to learn to take things seriously sometimes. In bothering to fight Vegeta at all, he was WORSE than Gotenks. Cause he KNEW he could've ended things right away with SS3 - either by beating Vegeta physically, or emotionally (maybe Vegeta would've just deflated at the sight of that and admitted defeat?). Anyway, that fight was unnecessary and just to fuel his battle-lust. He put his fun ahead of a quick resolution, and in doing so, helped to bring about the disaster that followed. Definitely guilty.
My two favorite series of events in the whole series come from this arc. Those being Gohan’s school antics and training Videl, and Mr. Satan befriending Buu.
So basically the "slice of life" moments. We barely see any of that in dragonball outside of fillers, and that's a shame. They really help flesh out the characters.
I loved how dark the android/cell ark was. Including the history of trunks and the conclusion to trunks returning to his time line. It was the highlight for dragonball z for me.
@@whatsupbossanova yeah for sure. Genocide and racism all balled up into a hateful being with exraordinary power who kills for fun. Frieza was no joke.
@@DaDualityofMan hey same. Seeing gohan loose his arm was so shocking i didnt want to to believe it. Then he got killed and it was the first time as a kid i saw real ass content from the cartoons/anime i watched.
Buu saga was the one with the least amount of editorial meddling. Previous arcs of Dragon Ball shaped into their final forms pretty much through Toriyama's editors, but Buu arc was him doing what he wanted. Toriyama is excellent artist, and his page composition is probably among best in the industry, but on story side he pretty much benefited from editors guiding him.
I'm glad someone else said this. I've been saying it for the past year now. I think many of us should be a lot more grateful to Toriyama's editors for helping to steer him in a good direction. I think the modern era compared to the Z or early era shows us the difference they made.
It's uncertain how much of an effect on the plotting the change in editors had, since most of the editorial advising that we're familiar with are primarily just beefs with the type of villain he was going for throughout the Cell arc. There's little we have to go on beyond that, with too many variables at hand. At the end of the day, it all just boiled down to franchise fatigue.
@@Sawngawkuh Yeah that's true. We however know that Toriyama-san's first editor, Torishima-san recommended he make a shonen story about kung-fu. Without that, there is no Dragon Ball. So we can take that and the other notable edits Torishima-san advised in the Cell arc and extrapolate that Torishima-san had a huge influence on the franchise, nearly, if not as much as Toriyama-san. And likely, other editors had a huge influence as well, and clearly without them, DB has lost ... something.
@@BelartWright There's a significant difference between recommending what kind of concept the author should tackle for their next story, and actually supplying in-depth ideas, advising on the plot's structure, what scenario should occur as a result of the last one, making them keep in mind the pacing of an event, and so on. Being the one to supply the genre behind an author's work doesn't really correlate with how well one is at being an editor. And just to remind, but those influences in the Cell arc aren't very story-centric. They're just him repeatedly telling him that his new villains looked lame and don't work as bad guys (which, when it came to 17 and 18, were comments that wound up being largely debatable, given how successfully malicious they could appear in supplementary material, showing the potential they could've had in Toriyama's own serialization). He wasn't his editor by then, so he could only say so much without impeding on someone else's job. I don't mean to undermine whatever involvement he had with the franchise, but at the end of the day, there's just not much to go off of. It's still uncertain if Toriyama, in his prime, was the kind of author that really needed to be kept in check or if it's just franchise fatigue inevitably seeping in after the series got bloated for so long and the cracks were starting to take their toll. It's especially blurry when the most notable examples of changed plans back then weren't alterations of inherently bad ideas, but just things that make us fans go "Aw, we wouldn't have this cool character and this other cool character if it weren't for these complaints!" in hindsight. That and the conditions and deadlines were starting to really be a burden for Toriyama, which could've had an effect on his work.
You forgot one important part about the Buu arc. Toriyama had nowhere near the amount of...let's call it meddling...by editors as he did in previous arcs. The Android Saga was originally going to only have Androids 20 and 19 as the main antagonists. His editor's comments gave rise to 17 and 18. Cell was only going to have one form. But due to the editor, we would up with Semi-Perfect and Perfect Cell. I believe if his editor was this much of a pest during the Buu Saga, we would have gotten something radically different, possibly much better. Granted, I used the terms "meddling" and "pest" because of how much they interacted with Toriyama. For the Buu Saga he was basically left to his own devices.
Eric Staples The editors were saying, “ You are not seriously going to have an old man and a mime as the villain?! You’re not seriously going to have two teens and a red head giant as the villains?! You’re not going to have a giant bug as the villain?! Stop messing with us and give Cell his perfect form!”
Most of the Buu arc problems come down to one specific thing: Toriyama was just burnt out. Not only in the writing, but also in the artwork too. You can feel Toriyama's exhaustion during this arc from the drawings alone.
"I think Mr. Satan should have trained martial arts skills more than his mouth!" In the Cell Games, Mr. Satan was a joking lier with his pants actually on fire from Cell`s energy blast. Although Cell held back on Mr. Hercule Mark Satan. In Buu Saga Mr. Satan showed that you do not have to always be aggressive to end a crisis. That lesson goes back to what started Dragon Ball since the beginning!" I fell in love with the Dragon Ball Franchise starting with the very first season of Dragon Ball. Then it continued throughout Dragon Ball Z all the way through GT. " I still love Super too!" We should enjoy the whole franchise since all series actually tell a relevant story that explains the whole truth behind the characters and their journeys. I will not tell anyone what to do. "Instead say I love the whole franchise!"
"Buu doesn't have personality...... as a result needs babidi as his mouthpiece......". My Brain: "Ladies and gentlemen my name is paul heyman, and this is BRAAAAAACCCCCKKKKKK LESSSSSSSSNARRRRRR!!!!!"
I was honestly kind of hype at the start of the Buu arc. It felt like the series had reembraced its humor. The reintroduction of magic and it being the source of Buu's power seemed like maybe it would require the heroes to approach him differently than the "keep training / Zenkai boosting until you can handle the villain" that'd become a rut even by this point.
Him murdering a bunch of innocent people just cause he wants to fight goku therefore derailing his previous character development? His arc was long over and so was everyone elses thats why this arc feels so fillery. Vegeta blowing himself up literally accomplished nothing and in a world where death is a slap on the wrist its not even that emotional either.
Then you totally fucking missed the point of "earth needs to be protected by the people living on it", the dark side of humanity like that robber turning boo into Super boo and Satan motivating humans to give their Ki for Genki-Dama
@@waiflu Except that Vegeta did not know that his soul would be retained to be able to be revived by the dragon balls in the first place. He, and all of us, thought his death was going to be it for good.
The part with Satan and Buu living together and the events that transpire from it are also a highlight. They justify Satan's existence as more than a one shot character and provide pretty much all of Majin Buu's character development throughout the arc. They're also the reason Buu got to be such a different main villain in the first place, because this part allowed him to start off as chaotic neutral and become truly villainous later. Without it, Buu would have to be a monster from the start for things to make sense.
They needed to do so much more with his "Ultimate" form. Sure its not as flashy as SSJ, but IF Toriyama ever allowed him to learn its true potential, he'd be on par with Goku/ Vegeta. Think about this for a second... Toriyama stated the reason for Goku not being able to use the spirit bomb while in SSJ form is because that form requires MALICE. Gohans ultimate form is similar if not out right the same as the Spirit Bomb, only it infuses with his entirety not just manifesting into an attack, but instead his "Ultimate" form. If done right they could show how he can POTENTIALLY gain similar power to the angels with this form amd be on par if not outright stronger than SSJB. Tons of potential, just wasting away.
ya Toriyama is not some masterful writer. He always just wrote what he wanted at the time and especially with how successful Dragon Ball became his editors basically allowed him to write what ever no questions asked (the same thing happened to George Lucas and the Prequels although George is a better writer and the prequels did have a great story hidden behind all of the shit but off topic) and as a result we went from the Cell saga where Gohan was suppose to take over to nvm Goku is back and Gohan kinda got shoved into his role of fighting the bad guy to stall him until daddy arrives.
Kid Buu maybe (and that's why he was the perfect villain to end DBZ for me), but Super Buu liked to have fun fighting, just like Cell's perfect form, and Mr. Buu had a great character development in the arc.
@@subwaysurfer5378 could you tell me other DB villains (before Buu of course) that are like him? Because mostly of the boring and generic ones are like Freeza.
When you consider the fact that they're moving at relativistic speeds and factor in Einstein's theory of special relativity, it's entirely possible that the fight we saw took place over the course of five minutes due to time dilation. Of course, Toei didn't think of that and just wanted the fight to be long.
@@komrot5305 in the manga the fight is much shorter, it's extended in the og dbz anime because of filler and the anime was way ahead of the manga, Kai shortens it but the manga is still shorter than kai.
@@komrot5305 I completely agree. It makes a lot of sense. Its actually weirder when they say the fusion has a 30 min timer, so that should technically be an eternity at their speeds.
Lmao xD. The buu saga is far better written than the cell saga. The cell saga starts good, but goes to shit fast, until the cell games begin its literally the worst saga in dbz
@@bladey_0_10 literally jist finished rewatching dbz. The buu saga makes way more sense than the cell saga does. The cell saga only has its start and finish going well. The rest is the worst of dbz.
Cant wait to see your drawing of Cell in Toriyama's style, after drawing him myself I now understand why Frieza came back to life instead haha. So detailed!
>Laughs in Kai/original manga I will say that even in Kai the final fight between Super Saiyan Goku and Frieza drags a bit too long and could've been shorter, but it isn't nearly as bad as it used to be, and it isn't as bad as the Buu Saga is. Saiyan and Cell saga are both better paced than it though.
For me, the arc suffers because: 1. Buu is an improperly fleshed out antagonist with no meaningful motivations 2. There are far too many transformations/power ups without enough time put into them that would deem them earned and/or justified. 3. Much of the dialog gets too silly at times, and only results in a degradation of the character's personality (which had been established and built upon by the previous arcs) 4. It followed the Cell Saga. Which, had a definitive end from a well structured story that included many thorough character arcs. So what ever followed the Cell Saga had to be as good or better to keep itself from looking like trash.
Kojin Non canon adventures is more like it. We are talking about toriyamas story telling skills. The crabventures are anime only. The Frieza Arc is the best paced arc.
I so appreciate your intelligence in covering the topics that you analyze. There's an effort and care that you don't often find from other creators. I can't wait to binge everything you've done!
Toryiama: "I'm going to cook up a nice new story. There's Gohan doing relatable stuff like going to school and meeting girls." AND WHAT ABOUT GOKU? *gives SSJ3* "Then there are Goku and Vegeta's children being friend teaming up with a powerful technique to stop evil" AND WHAT ABOUT GOKU? "Then Gohan finally take back the spotlight..." AND WHAT ABOUT GOKU? "Ah fuck it"
I really feel like I Loveeee the Buu Arc more than the Saiyan Arc or even the Namek Arc, but I know that objectively from a narrative structure, the Buu saga is EASILY the worst arc.
i actually like the fact the buu's personality changes when he eats people/transforms/gets stronger. Its like he takes them in mind, body, and soul. Plus, Its more tense because you have NO idea how he is going to react after each transformation.
They did make the cell saga better somehow, gave 16 a good (yet short) backstory on how he became a android, and made krillens and 18s relationship a bit more believable (asides from the fucking jokes) They'll figure something out (not to mention how they made hellsing ultimate entertaining that the original thing where the jokes......don't hit well).
>they made krilling and 18s relationship more believable ?? not they didnt they just made jokes that shes gonna fuck him if she survives wow 10/10 writing 18 loves krillin because he risked the world getting destroyed with not destroying her and wanting to make her life better with wishing her to be a normal human(didnt work) again
@@zenituragaming5043 They gave life to Perfect Cell and he was one boring ass bitch in the original. I'll never doubt TFS's ability to make comedy gold out of trash
Boo Arc Issues: Gohan: went from going toe 2 toe with Cell to being a joke Supreme Kai: scared Piccolo silly and then turned out to be trash Boo: too many transformations into different Boos Uub: Interesting character that is never heard from again
Gohan: Slacked off Supreme Kai: Considering Buu killed most of them... Not that big of a deal, honestly. Buu: The dynamics of the transformations actually made it fun for me. Uub: Foreshadowed. GT was a mess regarding Uub, but Super might have a better chance.
@@252musicplugz2 IMO great saiyaman was lame and then the Z Sword stuff. To go from being the new strongest in the universe to being corny was a loss. I dont skip any of the episodes when i watch though
The funny thing is Toriyama has the most freedom during this arc and it's the one people love the least... He just wanted to tell a more light hearted story with cool fights and gags in the end... His editors are responsible for making him focus on more serious plots and intense motivation fueled battles... Super and Dragon ball resemble the buu saga far more than the other arcs... As fans we just have to admit that while we adore the universe Toriyama created we didn't want him driving the narrative of that universe...
When you really think about it, the Buu arc was the most "Toriyama" part of Z. Villains based off folklore and mythology rather than aliens (well they were still aliens but yeah) and a gag-filled story with emphasis on cool moments and character storylines rather than overarching plots.
You know what you are right about the light hearted resemblance Akira Tori Yama chose. And I do like that just a bit more than war and bloodshed. However, it makes sense to mix the two carefully while having fun. That is what makes Dragon Ball awesome. "So Kudos to Mr. Akira Tori Yama no matter what!"
@Sun Wentai 90 No the Buu arc did do its comedy and seriousness well, it just didnt have a plot. Babidi and Buu were some of the gooiest villains in the series yet they still had a threat being the most gory killers in the series.
he was pretty much done and in the Cell arc, he wanted Gohan to take over/be the new MC, but fans and staff didn't want him to - and that's also why Gohan feels so lackluster in this one.
Don’t comment if you don’t know what you’re talking about. The fans had nothing to do with gohan as the main character idiot. Toriyama himself has said he didn’t feel gohan was a complete enough character to be the main character. Toriyama freakin killed off vegeta just because the fans didn’t want him to and no he was done after the frieza arc moron
@@mekudu-man3804 Not true. The reason was because Toriyama felt that Gohan wasn't fit for the role of the central protagonist. He toyed with the idea and it clearly shows during the Buy Arc, but in the end he couldn't follow through with it.
I liked the Buu saga, and some of the most iconic moments of DBZ took place during its span, but there was definitely a tonal shift, and it feels more lighthearted and goofy compared to Frieza and Cell.
It's funny, the first half of the Buu saga was aces. Basically all the way up to Vegeta's sacrifice. After that I feel like we didn't get what was promised and most of it feels disjointed from what was setup at the start. The Gotenks stuff feels like it could've been trimmed a bit, but ultimately he always felt like a stalling tactic. I think that the arc really should've ended with Gohan as the savior, but Toriyama-san didn't pull the trigger. Ending with Vegetto would've been okay too, but with more of a struggle, but I understand why you wouldn't want to end with fusion in a show about martial arts philosophy. For me, the biggest problem was always the Saiyan saturated in this arc. It really set a bad precedent and I feel Piccolo, who's versed in magic should've played a bigger role, maybe suggesting and trying Mafuba to seal Buu.
I maintain that Vegeta's sacrifice SHOULD have killed Buu or at least a large portion of his power so that the others could finish it without Goku or Vegeta. It would have made Vegeta more meaningful, given him a proper send-off to his arc as a character, and given a conceivable reason how the remaining characters could finish a weakened Buu off.
@@sethsherlock9694 Yeah, I actually kinda wish fusion wasn't introduced into the show so that kid Trunks and Goten would have more development. It would have been great if they and Gohan found a way to actually save everyone and at the end, bring Vegeta back.
@@baseupp12 Its more based on what Toriyama-san felt. He said he didn't feel Gohan was a suitable protagonist at this point and so he went with Goku instead.
I would vote buu saga too, but it's still better then gt and super. They screwed over gohan and piccolo after cell ark. Piccolo is one of my fav characters, then Gohan was till they made him suck.
VictoryVick damn after her Spopovich beatdown she kinda doesn't deserve that. but ar the same time she is a little badass who could take it and it would have given Gohan more investment. just imagine it with his line before Super Buu: "Fight you? No, I wanna kill you." it'd be fuckin cold.
@@RacingSnails64 The Spopovich beatdown started too quickly. Gohan taught her how to fly and she'd seen energy blasts first hand, she should've pulled off a kamehameha(seriously, everyone else learned it pretty easily, so why not her) and then have *that* not be enough. It would've helped sell the helplessness of the situation and also justify Vegeta wanting Babidi's powerup.
@@InfernosReaper what do you mean easily? Master roshi took 50 years to create and master it, krillin only barely got it after years of training yamacha proabably got on from krillin in the 5 year gap before the saiyan saga.
@@aTristicionAXA Yamcha learned it back in Dragonball *offscreen* with *no one* actually teaching it to him. Moreover, no one taught Krillin the move either, nor did he train to do it. He didn't even seriously try to do it even once until *after* seeing Yamcha do it, yet mastered it on the first genuine attempt. > We know this because Roshi is genuinely surprised when each of them gets the move down. > So, *no*, Yamcha didn't learn it from Krillin and Krillin didn't spend years training to learn it. Given little time Goku and Krillin spent learning the move, it's likely it didn't take Yamcha that long to figure it out either. > Videl learned how to fly, when none of those 3 could do at the time. There is no reason she wouldn't have the aptitude to figure out how to do an energy blast, which generally requires much less energy control. It's also baffling that it took Roshi so long to make the technique, given how quickly others mastered it with little to no training.
My favourite arc is still the Cell Arc. Even though I understand why to many it's the Frieza Arc. Cell Arc was was almost perfect (no pun intended). Just the Cell Games was a little messy and uninspired idea.
Funny thing toriyama didnt really inted the android cell arc to be what it was shonen jump forced him to change it. Kinda like the 4th hokage was gonna be a dog. Those authors need there heads examined
Honestly I think Toriyama just didn't know how to finish it so every "phase" of the buu Saga was its own ending until he found the ending he thought was the best
When you think about it, Buu never ran from his fights or had others fight for him. His kid and super forms are always going to be my favorites. Except his fat form, didnt care for it.
Problem with Buu saga was the begining, Great saiyaman part ,a new tournament then introduction to Buu, all happening at the same time, too much stuff convoluted.
Kal-El fan 49 but there are some good moments that I liked it: Goku vs Majin Vegeta Vegeta's sacrifice Goku's dialogue before killing Kid Buu And the animation.
My favorite unnecessary section in the arc: the absorption rescue. After Goku and Vegeta, as Vegito, willingly took the risk of getting absorbed by Buu in order to save their allies, they destroy their Kai earrings haphazardly, almost die on several occasions while inside Buu, actually manage to rescue their allies... and then leave them on Earth as it gets destroyed because Goku spotted Satan(!) and Dende to rescue instead. The de-coupling of fat-Buu was about the only productive objective accomplished that couldn't be achieved from outside Buu, and even that saving grace is hurt by the fact that Vegito could have easily annihilated Super Buu, and then wished away all the damage with Dende's help. It was fruitless efforts like these that made this arc more of a stress endurance test than an engaging story for me, hahaha. Otoh, this trait is also what made this particular saga so damned memorable.
Too many 'characters doing stupid/prideful things that backfire or get everyone killed' and the sort of 'flanderization' of traits. Like, on Namek...Vegeta was cocky, but he wasn't too cocky to know when he was outmatched by Frieza or the Ginyu Force. He actively avoided them a lot, and even when he decided to give it his all to fight them, he knew he was outmatched or was just trying a good game face. And Goku...while merciful and wanting a challenge, was not idiotic in how he took on Frieza. Yes, letting Frieza power to 100% was a bit foolish, but in the heat of the battle it was sort of understandable. Then you get to the Cell arc...and after a doomsday message from the future, ALL of the Dragon Team collectively decide to NOT stop Gero and prevent the Androids from happening, nope....they want the challenge of training and taking them head on. They spit in the face of someone who traveled IN TIME to give them a chance to save themselves. I don't think Vegeta or anyone on Planet Namek would have scoffed at defeating Frieza in an indirect way, because they took him seriously. When Vegeta has Cell beaten, he just LETS him become Perfect "for the challenge"....yet I have doubts that if Vegeta had Frieza in a similar position on Namek(like after Dende healed him, for example) that he would have shown that kind of arrogance against Frieza, I thing he would have killed him while he had the chance...being more merciless. Goku gives Cell a Senzu bean and sends in a woefully prepared Gohan to fight him.....I don't think he would have pulled that type of foolishness against Frieza. Stuff like that makes everything feel like it matters less. When the characters start being so flippant in how they are gambling the fate of the world/their loved ones....it starts to all feel like nonsense, and we see it go even farther in the Buu Saga. Post Frieza, DBZ has always been a very poorly written series propped up by awesome characters, cool concepts, cool fight scenes, and love of the earlier storytelling.
@@ChrisPeteG i dissagree with one thing (technically 2 but it is really minor), the spitting in the face towards future trunks. the reason why the z-fighters didn´t find just wish for gero´s lab location (for a challange sure) was mostly because the androids did not do anything wrong yet, and in hindsight they were right. 17 and 18 spared their lives eventhough they tried to kill them and even teamed up against cell immediatly without hesitation, they commited a few petty crimes at worst and went on to perserve nature or start a family. So i find it unfair to call the z-fighters stypid for something they were right on. also another thing: cell has 2 androids in his body with infinite energy, so cell should also have infinite energy. and because of his namekian DNA he can regenerate any damage for the price of losing some energy, but becuase he has infinite energy he can infinitly regenerate, right? so in a way, he bassically has infinite senzu beans within him so giving him a senzu is redundant. goku giving cell a senzu bean is stupid but not because he gave cell his stamina back and healed his wounds but because cell himself is practically a senzu bean factory.
@@ChrisPeteG There mostly wasn't too much of that and there wasn't any flanderization of traits. Wrong, he died trying to fight Frieza after all and he thought he could beat him. I mean...it was still foolish and lines up with him having Cell fight at his 100% by giving him a senzu bean and him letting Goten and Trunks fight Buu as a fair fight instead of going ss3 and killing Buu himself. Which lines up with Saiyan traits...especially with how Goku decided to spare Vegeta in part because he was a good challenge. Not really as they train themselves even harder then before and do save themselves. Vegeta would as he wanted to fight Frieza himself head on. Nah he would have done that exact same thing against Frieza and even if he wouldn't it's different as Frieza had tortured and mocked him for so many years and blew up his home planet. Maybe...but he may also decide to do things his own way too. He did pull that type of foolishness against Frieza though by letting him power up to 100%. No everything still feels like it matters just as much as it did before those things happened. They aren't being flippant though and it doesn't feel like nonsense. The Buu Saga feels more like nonsense but for different reasons and the characters still aren't flippant in it. Not really, it was mostly well written.
That wasn't unnecessary though, they needed to do that to rescue their friends and family and to keep them alive and doing that weakened Buu too. Which was a mistake on Goku's part honestly but saving Satan did help them beat Buu. Which was their main goal there and Vegito couldn't have easily won...and even if he could have the others would have still died which isn't good as they needed them alive. Why would they wish away the damage but kill their friends and family? They can't just do something like that without any thought or care. Those weren't fruitless efforts as they still did rescue them and they did weaken Buu and it was both a engaging story and a stress endurance test lol.
Saiyan saga: is intimately connected to the protagonist past and its unkown secrets Frieza saga: links its new concepts with we already knew and didn't knew for a dramatic climax Cell saga: rescues elements apparently forgotten and starts the development of Gohan Buu saga: *random bullshit, go*
I disagree about gohans development in the cell/android saga because he did absolutely nothing until the end when a head of a robot id be surprised he knew the name of died Also he a pasfist now
Ultimate Gohan could and should have been a wonderfully mystic lead character, with Goku as a mentor figure much like Master Roshi was in original Dragon Ball!
Yeah, it was a mess. It seemed a lot like Toriyama kept jumping from protagonist to protagonist for someone new to throw at the Buu. In the end it ended up being left to the usual two, making everything before that point seem absolutely pointless.
The "usual two" part should be removed here. In the fight against raditz it was the combined effort of goku gohan and piccolo. Against vegeta it was goku gohan krillin and yajirobe. Against cell it was gohan with a little help from vegeta. Even against buu it was pretty much everyone.
@@IamKindness this. before that they were 2 completely insanely strong characters but nowadays you can't really see vegetawithout goku or goku without vegeta. their levels have just been upped to a way too high standard for the rest, the only characters that will be able to break the "usual two" standard are: good buu full power, maybe gotenks, probably not gohan but there's still a chance and uub. i'm not sure who else could make a good earth ally
90% of the arc was Goku relying om somebody besides him to take care of the problem and in the end they all just made things worse until Goku finally took care of the problem.
It's only redeeming factor are the transformations. Once you realize Goku could've showed up and spirit bombed fat Buu. Or taught Gohan the spirit bomb waaaaay before the cell saga. Or go ssj3 and stomp fat buu. There's alot of things that could've been avoided. Cell imo was a tougher guy to beat.
Jeeses99 Tournament of Power? What the fuck? The 21st, 22nd and 23rd Tournaments were a million times better lmao. Also the Black arc from the manga destroys the ToP, I guess you haven’t checked it out.
I think that was the worst and was when the series became stupid and ridiculous. They essentially created an antagonist that could not be killed because you can't cut him in half and you can't just explode him, then had to break the rules of the character to kill him by exploding him after they realized they totally wrote themselves into a wall.
One thing that always bugged me about the Buu saga is that no matter what, with the exception of the earliest parts of the story, I can never actually mentally put it all in order. Like I don’t remember what order the Buu forms appear in, I don’t remember when the different fusions happen, I don’t remember when who fights whom, I don’t remember when the Buu/Satan roommate situation starts. It’s all jumbled in my memory despite having watched it multiple times.
Fat buu>Thin Buu>Super Buu>BuuTenks>BuuHan>Kid Buu Ss2 Gohan, Majin Vegeta, Ss3 Goku and Gotenks (base form) fought Fat Buu, Gotenks fought him the second time on his Super Buu form, then Ultimate Gohan came in but got defeated by BuuTenks, Goku & Vegeta came and fused as Vegito vs BuuHan, then final battle Kid Buu vs Goku & Vegeta in Supreme Kai's planet
Same. There is no real sense of story progression, just the heroes throwing different fighters/strategies at the villain until they win. With the other arcs you can follow advancement in the conflict. Buu Arc has the same conflict the whole way through while characters swap in and out
Kal-El fan 49 no, Goku’s story ended with Dragon Ball, and it was time to move on. Gohan’s character was already pretty shaky, as the asspull ending to the Cell Games being a textbook example of bad writing. I like the slice of life direction that the arc began as. If Gohan’s relationship with Videl had strengthened, it would be a much better deal. Most of the filler episodes with Goku on Kaiosamas planet were pretty boring, and had meh tier pacing. I think Videl would have resonated more if the focus was on her and Gohan.
Yes that was Buu`s energy ability. "That move was based on Monster Carrot`s technique from Dragon Ball!" If Gohan learned Goku`s past historical fights, Gohan would have combined the Turn into a Carrot and the Devil Might Beam, he could have made his own new move!" "Called: "The Polar Beam Technique!"
This was the point when Toriyama was burned out from writing Dragon Ball and looking at this arc it shows. It feels very disappointing how despite being built up Gotenks and Gohan never amount to anything in the grand scheme of things and apparently it's a Spirit Bomb of all random things, yeah the same attack that failed twice in Dragon Ball story and only succeeded in the movies is the one that kills the main villain and that itself is due to Hercule of all people and that's because nobody except for the gang on Earth refused to listen to Goku and Vegeta despite them all being killed by Buu and getting revived by the Dragon Balls yet somehow refuse to believe it all happened until Hercule said so because the people on Earth are the stupidest beings in the Universe.
@@dinogt8477 Yeah i will admit that for as much as i liked the Android and Cell Arc it's time travel plot is really confusing and hard to understand which is the result of Toriyama having to change the villains several times at the advice of his editor.
@@PlaidMystic I did hear that was what happened but i have also heard how Toriyama did the decision himself because of how he couldn't write Gohan as the main character. To me this serves as an indication for why Super and the Buu Arc to an extent are mediocre in the writing because of how limited Toriyama is in creative writing and rather than learning new things and improve his writing for a better quality show we instead not only get the same things we saw in Z for Super but in inferior quality as well since it has little of the creativity, passion and effort put into it like with Z that made the latter into a major icon of all Anime.
Seeing the humans devolve from well written and caring in the original to literally brain dead by the end of z manages to ruin the climax of the entire story because having the entire earth help you would have been an amazingly bulbils up thing with all the people holy has helped but instead it barley does anything and the entire climax is ruined to make joke about me satan
I loved Buu as a villain in concept. He’s not my favorite at all but I thought he served a purpose. He really did seem unstoppable. I like to think of him as the perfect scenario get Goku and Vegeta to let go of their pride. A force that opened their eyes and grew them as characters. I thought Buu was the only villain that Goku feared. He really worried that could have been the end for them all. Buu made him get serious to save the universe instead of getting serious to be stronger than his opponent. Same with Vegeta, and its also tied into his narrative arc. Two of the most prideful warriors finally decided to fight to preserve all that they loved. Then they use that love to destroy Buu, proving that love gave them the only power they needed. Not that prideful trait that plagued them. Then Buu turned into Uub which was alright or whatever.
Chad's World Gogeta didn’t beat Broly in the movie, he let him live and the whole fight was meaningless. Well I guess it had meaning if you consider shilling out to the twelve year olds and making Broly a fucking main character meaning
@@plat6559 why tf do you consider a fight "meaningless" if someone doesnt die? When going to war the king doesnt have to die for the country to be lost, yet youd call the fighr that lost the country meaningless? My point is is that their is always shit going on in the fights, even if no one dies, there is still development. Thus, its not pointless
@@EmeraldSaiyanBroly oh I know I just refuse to correct gramatical errors that dont change the meaning of what Im saying. Anyone who uses context clues can put together what that I meant "there" or they didnt care because they didnt even notice. Thank you though for sharing your correction, I appreciate you attempting to help me speak with more nuance.
RG Phoenix regeneration doesn’t mean immortality or invincibly he can only absorb other namekians plus he doesn’t like to and piccolo is a worrier clan namekian not dragon clan so he can’t make dragon balls
I feel like the fact that majin buu changes so often makes his character seem all that more terrifying, like he started out a complete moron but grew progressively more intelligent (over the course of a few days, it seems longer in the anime), then he snaps and is a complete lunatic. If you look at it from someone in their verses point of view It creates a feeling of fear and terror.
gotenks and ultimate gohan underwhelming was the whole point. it validates goku having to stay back on earth since he's the only reliable person that can handle the responsibility to be earth's greatest defender. he hoped he could put it on gohan but gohan doesn't have what it takes. he lacks leadership, decisiveness, competitiveness, and drive to push himself to the limits. goten and trunks weren't ready and probably aren't going to be.
Which is exactly why z ends with a fart and not applause. Goku stopped being a character in the buy saga, he was just a plot device and literally everything else was just a pointless prop. Which is why the arc sucks. It's a significant amount of totally unimportant wasted time. It's also totally stupid to act like relying on Goku is a good thing, as a most points in the story most of the problems exist because Goku literally doesn't take things seriously until people are actually dead, any significant amount of the problems get worse because of Goku's own kind of reckless attitude. He's just the McGuffin of "I'm the strong one". And genuinely, and no way shape or form does he actually begin to start and act like someone with any degree of responsibility or sense. Which is actually bad character writing because it seemed like after the cell saga he did learn quite a bit and should have been a lot more mature from literally just the ark that happened then.
I feel like gohan not being able to hold the torch TEMPORARILY, could have been good. Maybe he did keep training, but he gets overconfident with Buu and almost dies, which leads to the failure of Gotenks which and the death of everyone on the planet, so when Gohan See's the product of his mistake, he's gets the Ultimate form which allows him to destroy Buu completely, and from this saga onward he could be more serious and not such an arrogant moron. Just a concept, and I'd say that vegeta shouldn't die especially if he's just gonna get revived smh.
I loved the Buu Arc and it’s entirety. -Gave us Fusion -SS3 -Bad ass Villain Majin Buu -Ultimate Gohan -Vegeta grew as a character more -Vegito They should’ve stopped at Super Buu he looked way more menacing and a real threat than Kid Buu just my opinion. Just dragged on with Kid Buu.
Everyone is hating on the buu arc but quotes it the most as well as use its images/ scenes/ etc the most in media. I’m not gonna act like everyone really hates this amazing arc
That's the entire point of the video. The memorable moments in the arc are quite literally meaningless. A lot of really good ideas end up just tacked onto the story without actually contributing to it. And it's that very reason that the arc is bad. Not in spite of the cool moments, but *because* of them. Because they don't actually matter in the context of the story the way they deserve.
you can find something good within something that is bad, just because bits and pieces are well made, doesnt change the fact that the arc as whole is flawed.
ClamSham but if you’ve ever played games like xenoverse you’d know fights like Frieza can be won in 5 minutes. It’s just the cutaways, commercial bumpers, and dialogue pad the runtime
Christopher McDonald no wrong that was a fan theory that has been completely disproven it’s not slowed down for us the anime fight got ahead of the manga and dus needed padding ...
Christopher McDonald sorry it’s not this has been confirmed plenty of times it would have been a smart move for them to confirm it as fact bescuse it makes a lot of sense but it’s been confirmed not to be true many many times
Buu's absorption ability could have been such a great narrative tool for character confrontation- We see Buu take on the features and personalities of those he absorbs. The Kai who were respected and love by Kaio Shin. Both of Goku's sons, Gohan's mentor and little brother, Vegeta's only son. It would have been amazing seeing their interpersonal conflicts be channeled through Buu's dialogue as he fights them.
How about this - Babidi releases Buu but is immediately disappointed because Fat Buu isn't the world-ending avatar of death he thought he was. He doesn't know that Buu needs to absorb others to gain power, and part of being sealed in the seed was the extensive process of stripping away everyone he absorbed, leaving just a child-like husk. With every absorption, he takes on the qualities and power of who he absorbed, so in order to create the monstrous Majin Buu of legend, he basically had to be fed 'properly'. Babidi eventually figures this out through some mechanism, and begins using it to build Buu's power. And early in the saga, one of the first characters Buu absorbs is Majin Vegeta. This causes him to take on Vegeta's power and personality, but because he was so early in the power-growth stage, Vegeta's strong personality made him immediately break from Babidi's control. As the series go on, the other characters learn about the absorption and fall one-by-one to Buu who increasingly grows in power. In desperation, they look elsewhere for answers, and that's where they learn about their OWN powers of fusion where they can mimic Buu's enormous power multiplication. My only worry is that this is a little bit like Cell, honestly.
The Videl part of the story did have a point, but she was dropped too early for the potential she had. Videl was the driving force to get Gohan to go to the tournament and round up the Z Fighters for it, which is where the Supreme Kai would find everyone, including Goku, to jumpstart the Buu revival part of the story. Goku came back for the tournament that Videl forced Gohan to go to, which allowed everyone to find Babadi and ultimately revive Buu, so without the whole Videl section, there wouldn't be a legitimate motivation to go to the tournament and for Goku to return for a day. For the Buu arc, I think it's about the journey, not the destination, like it was for Freeza, especially at the beginning. It built on the world established and showed how the average citizens reacted to DBZ concepts like flight and ki. Toriyama didn't need to establish Videl and the tournament, but it provided more insight on the universe. Same for fusion and Ultimate Gohan. Regardless, I liked the analysis and think the Majin Vegeta surprise villain idea would ahve made for a great narrative.
If thats the case then ultimate gohan couldve propelled the story more if goku hadnt came back,i wouldve assumed that it just meant gohan didnt know what to do with all of that power and therefore wasnt ready to be the protector of earth like goku thought. Same with gotenks. It seems like they did have relevancy or potential for the future but squandered so there was still definitely a need for goku and vegeta
Hell was SSJ3 even needed in the Buu Arc? It first appears in the fight when Goku fights Fat Buu when he's just stalling for time and doesn't need to win. It appears again against Kid Buu where it doesn't work and they need the spirit bomb instead.
The Buu transformations are a lot, but they make sense within the story. It also comes full circle when Goku and Vegeta rip them out and release kid Buu. Gotenks was definitely filler, but is used to show how powerful Mystic Gohan is by comparison. Mystic Gohan, Gotenks, and Piccolo being absorbed set up the elder Kai’s “sacrifice”, and Goku’s need to be resurrected. Vegito, Majin Vegeta, SSJ3, Gohan and Videl, Vegeta’s turn: as you stated, some of DBZs most iconic moments. I guess overall my point is that while the arc may be the least liked, it is only so because it is competing with two of anime’s best. It is still amazing.
I was racking my brain to come up with another "worst saga", but I can't point to any one of them and say "that sucked". Except the literal fillers, like Garlic Jr. It also depends on how many sagas you consider there to be. Is the Saiyaman Saga separate, or part of the Buu saga? Garlic Jr was completely forgettable. Saiyaman was goofy and rather unneccesary, except for some backstory on Videl. The Namek Saga surely was the boring bit about the Frieza sagas. Buu probably also suffered from DBZ overload. As much as I love DBZ, it's gateway anime. It's cool, but not extremely well executed for several reasons. The worst offender being, it's just the same story over and over again. Let's all be honest and admit "I've never felt a powerlevel like this!" was said every 20 episodes, and the solution to this newest stronger enemy usually was to have Goku attain a new SSJ form and kick its ass. It might be the coolest shit you've ever seen the first time, but the second time, it's not quite as impressive, and by the time Buu comes around, it's old hat.
The Buu saga is actually my favorite, I like the drag time and the unnecessary things (because many unnecessary things happen during important events IRL so makes it feel more realistic to me) I love the desperation Buu caused in the Z Fighters, everything
Don't forget to leave a like or dislike!
What do you think about the Buu arc?
Totally Not Mark why does your persona looks just like adult Gohan?
Totally Not Mark I didn't like it. Is not bad Saga but Is the worst.
It’s so epic
I guess it's AWESOME
The Buu arc was the final nail in the coffin for me and made me fall out of love with DBZ, if I ever were in love with it in the first place.
Buu was absolutely the worst kind of villain; the kind that just makes me completely apathetic, apart from "good god somebody just fucking KILL this guy already". He's like Freddy Kruger in the Nightmare sequels except at least Freddy doesn't stick around for fucking 60+ episodes.
I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but Gohan was not done justice
Divij Khaitan No. No he was not 😢
Seriously, should've kept him doing the highschool/super hero thing. Best Gohan's ever been
Divij Khaitan goku show
Eh, i disagree
While Gohan's Saiyaman antics were cringe, I kinda felt it was necessary to start off so comedic and light, to give Gohan the chance to have the action-comedy life that his dad had as a kid that Gohan was robbed of.
I was okay with the series taking a break from the repetitive conflict structure from the last two arcs. Sadly, the Goku show had to continue.
In hindsight, I kind of like that Ultimate Gohan and fusion had no real effect on the story. It made it feel like the characters were truly desperate and threw everything they had at the wall to see what would stick, and then were faced to deal with reality.
But at the end of the day I know it was just Toriyama experimenting and being somewhat careless, lol.
I feel like that's the main problem, nowadays everyone worries way too much about what the creators intention was and that brings the enjoyment down as a whole.
I like this aspect too. I mean, the same thing happens in all of the arcs really. The heroes are always desperately trying things to beat the villain, and they always gain the upper hand for a bit before letting it slip away.
Is Piccolo fusing with nail to fight Frieza really necessary? No, other than to force Frieza to use more of his power that he could have used at any point. With Buu, the difference is that he's not just holding back, but doesn't actually have the necessary power to win, so he has to scheme and set a trap to gain said power by absorbing the heroes. In that regard, I feel like that's actually better storytelling! And it explains the huge personality shifts in Buu that were complained about in the video. Buu is still my least favorite arc, but it's also still enjoyable and quintessential DBZ
I think the whole "throwing everything you have at the enemy" thing worked better in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs though. At least, the concept was utilised better. Since Boo regenerates, there is no lasting damage, so it just feels unimportant.
@@AlexanderDiviFilius You could be right there, something that bugged me about Vegeta's sacrifice is that it didn't do anything to Buu. Had it shown a weakness in his regeneration then possibly it would have been ok.
This dude Not to mention that Piccolo fused with Nail is what pushed Frieza to his third form and - eventually - his iconic fourth form in the first place.
Granted, Frieza’s third form is completely irrelevent to the story, but still, having him go into his fourth form and helping Goku buy time to charge the spirit bomb are pretty big points.
I like thinking of Buu as a reflection of the main characters. He doesn’t necessarily stand for anything in particular (like Frieza as an emperor or Cell as perfection), but rather reflects what is thrown at him. As our battle-obsessed characters overwhelm him with fighting as their form of ending conflicts, Buu changes from a fun-loving squishy being into a chizzled warrior bent on trying to be the strongest, a character flaw literally absorbed from the main characters.
Thats an awesome interpretation!
Beautifully put
That's a really cool way to look at it.
Also worth mentionning is Piccolo talk's with Videl where he tell her
that basically Satan is the savior of the world, having made friends with Buu instead of just trying to beat him.
Very well said!
Tbh, the very beginning of the Buu arc with Gohan meeting Videl in high school was the best part of the entire saga imo. I live for the slice-of-life moments in DBZ, lol.
Yeah same, one of my favorite moments is when Goku and Krillin train with Master Roshi. There are no stakes and it’s just so chill.
It's cool but DBZ can take it too far with the filler from time to time
Yeah, I'll never forget Gohan getting anxious, tapping his foot and creating a mock earthquake
@@rji5377 You cannot go too far with filler, you just need to make GOOD filler. Or better yet, just make it relevant instead of having it be filler.
@@blauwbeer556 true I love it but there is a reason it's called drag on ball
I really don’t like the fact that nobody talks about how buu used
LITTERAL HUMANS TO MAKE A HOUSE
... I somehow forgot about that. That's messed up!
And that place is still around, despite shenron fixing things.
Vuubik I think it was said that Hercule helped make Buu make a new house that was made from actual clay and not humans.
Yeah,lol,but i guess those ppl got revived from it? I hope they aren't around being made of clay anymore on a house that i don't think anyone uses, lol.
Guilhermessj I assume they got turned back into people from the wish that was made to bring back everyone killed by Majin Buu, the wish must also count for the fat one as well.
The best thing that came from the BUU arc
The character development of Vegeta and Mr Satan
the two most annoying characters
daleva187goligo what are you smoking
@@daleva187goligo nigga what,
As much as I love Satan I'm really irritated by how much slower he makes the whole pace
I honestly couldnt watch Dragon ball z/super if vegeta was taken out.
"One of the besst paced arcs in Dragon Ball, the Freeza arc"
*Laughs in anime adaptation*
Frieza: this planet will blow up in 5 minutes.
(2 hours later)
1 minute left
@@buggsmalone8178 Frieza arc is definitely one of the best paced arc
This is exactly why I will always recommend Kai to someone if they’re getting into Dragon Ball for the first time.
*Laughs for 5 minutes*
@@zombieguy4444 which lasts 4 episodes lol
My boys whole channel is literally just “I really love dragon ball, bbbbuuuutttt” lmao
Every great franchise, film, TV, anime....if it goes on long enough, that is what it eventually becomes. Single films, and maybe a set of 2-3 films can be pretty darn close to perfect. A mini-series or a limited series or one that doesn't go on TOO long...they can maintain and feel complete and not really have anything that bogs them down.
But when you have something like Star Wars(which now includes hundreds of episodes of television on TOP of 11 films)...Dragon Ball(which, all in, even using Kai instead of Z, is at 451 episodes), Star Trek, the Marvel Cinematic Universe....anything.
You get to a point where the narrative keeps going further and further away from the initial spark that made it originally work so well....and more and more new concepts and characters get introduced and piled on top of each other, and more and more inconsistencies and flaws pop up, and every new piece runs the inevitable risk of becoming "The weakest entry in the series so far" and that becomes a heavier burden the longer any series goes on.
More and more 'weak links' are able to pop up, because they are ultimately supported by the long time fans who also become forgiving.
If the type of poor storytelling of the Star Wars Disney Trilogy was found in an ORIGINAL property, it would be quickly forgotten. If the messy plot execution of Super, or the Buu Saga were found in an ORIGINAL property, it would not be a hit series.
You get into this "Well, I love PARTS of this franchise/series so much(usually the earlier parts) that I want to keep loving it and love all of it" so you have dedicated fans becoming very forgiving of films and shows.
Just as almost every great TV series sees a decline in the storytelling before the series eventually ends.
He is probably too afraid to criticise it because the db tards will attack him even though tons of db tards hate the buu arc
@Ish Moore I know. The truth hurts, but facts don't care about feelings.
The best storytelling in the Dragon Ball Saga happened YEARS ago.
The "Fandom" has morphed into a bunch of people who aren't really fans, they just want to be loyal to the brand and "Defend their purchase"
@@ChrisPeteG I agree. Dragonball fans have devolved into knuckle-draggers. You can't truly love something without accepting valid criticism of it
@@HydraDominus I feel like it’s all people that are like that
*GOHAN IS THE STRONGEST IN THE UNIVERSE BUT STILL DOESN'T DO CRAP!*
This quote basically sums up Gohan in this arc.
Gohan was forced Into a life of of trauma from the age of 4. I dont blame gohan for giving up fighting
@@j.ronnygibson he has blood of a race lives on fighting it makes no sense to resists a argue thats literally in your blood hell super has gohan saying he is enjoying the fight that goku and toppo is in due to his saiyan blood ok it was peacful ok he is half human but his dad gave his life for gohan to become the protecter he should have train or fought you know evil during the 7 year time gap hell trunks and even krillin have it worse then gohan
That's why I love the Cell saga. Gohan is the fucking star of that arc.
the fork Man he’s also a human
Gohan doesn't like fighting.
I would argue that Freeza's 3rd form, the one that looks like an alien, was not necessary to the namek saga.
Jack Aufenhand
it may not be necessary actually. still a favorite form a mine (especially how deep his Kai voice is.) either they could of cut it out or made it last longer, maybe even make it replace his second to make him more monstrous?
idk just spitballing
Thats true but at least it had an effect on showing them even more how they are outclassed since when the 3rd Form mopped Piccolo at that Point, how strong would he be if he transforms even further?
It was basically for tension
It was basically made to beat piccolos ass
his 2nd form isn't necessary either. Specially considering Freeza wasn't giving his all even in his True Form
Dragon Ball wasnt necessary to the shonen jump too
One of the things that will always annoy me about the Buu saga is with Dabura. You introduce the guy as the "Demon King". That was a character with such an absurd amount of wasted potential.
True. You don't introduce something like DBZ Devil and then make him a piker, its lame
It's like he had potential 😔😔
For a guy who was basically the Satan of dragon ball, I find it hard that he can't beat a couple endangered alien species regardless of how strong they are.
Xenoverse does show Dabura is a huge piker and Mechikibura is the real deal
Wouldn’t be the first time lmao
My big disappointment with this arc was the fact that the first act clearly set Gohan up as our protagonist, and there were a huge amount of time, story beats, and foreshadowing dedicated to hyping Gohan up as the hero of this story. We got all this time to get to know an older Gohan, see how his life has progressed since Goku died, and the fact that he's seemingly been goofing off and not taking the role of "Earth's defender" seriously.
Then he finally unlocks the power needed to defeat the villain (in an admittedly anticlimactic way), only to make the same mistake he'd already made previously in the Cell Arc and lose the fight. Then Goku and Vegita have to make an out of place come back to save the day.
The story just kept building to this epic moment for Gohan, and literally removed Goku and Vegita from the main point of prominence in the story, only to pull the rug out from underneath us and have Goku come back to reclaim the spot as the main character.
I watched this saga as a teenager and remember feeling like all the story beats and buildup for Gohan at the start of the arc were a waste of my time.
real and true, as an average gohan enjoyer i hated it
This is one of the best comments on this video and it has so few likes.
Toriyama say that he can't write an interesting story with Gohan as the protagonist
Fat Buu’s character development is honestly underrated asf
yes
Thanks mr satan
theres a reason why his merch sells
@@Pedro-qm1of he's adorable
Is it though? I still feel like, unless mr. Satan or any other member of the cast is there to incite him, he would still ignore most criminal acts around him. He went from a problem child manipulated by an evildoer to a problem child under the care of mr. Satan. It's a welcome but unexceptional change, at least to me
Because the Buu Arc is a *Super Saiyan Bargain Sale*
Goku will Save Us! *bloop* times up
Gotenks will Save Us! *bloop* times up
Gohan will Save Us! *bloop* Buu ate everyone!
Vegito will Save Us! *bloop* Vegita broke the earring.
Super Saiyan 3, Fusion Dance, Unlocking New Powers, Fusion Earrings.
Any one of these would've been enough for one arc, but it had all of these.
"Haha aha that is right!"
@@ikmnification5737 Why does it sound like a complaint?
Lol it’s a xenoverse reference
lol stfu, Akira Toriyama wanted to quit dragon ball after thefreeza arc, and people kept asking for more, so he created the cell arc, and then people AGAIN kept asking for more, which ended up with the buu arc ...
"There was no wasted moments in the Frieza Saga"
Casual reminder that the Frieza Goku fight was specifically milked to all hell.
Check out the fight in the manga, it was fucking great and much better paced than the anime version, I never felt it was dragged out.
Just because Frieza said the planet is going to blow up in 5 minutes doesn't mean it was going to. He gave a rough estimate.
@@Skitz0frenix it was more the pacing of the fight. They reused a LOT of the animations on that one fight.
Remember when Goku had to heal inside a bubble machine for 20 episodes? Or that time he spent training while flying through space in a ship because he hadn't learned instant transmission yet? Pepperidge farm remembers.
Just rewatch it as DB Kai and you see, that the fight does not get milked at all.
That's because in the original DB, the fight had many filler elements due to catching up the the source material.
That means, while the fight in DBZ is 20 parts or something like that, in DBK it's only 4 or 5.
It’s quite obvious that Toriyama intended for Gohan to defeat Buu but then changed his mind and had to get himself out of the hole he’d dug
No, Toriyama never intended gohan to finish buu.
@@jantheking7028 Toriyama is literally on record saying Gohan was going to be the protagonist but he felt it wasn't working out.
@@wyveriusblackfire3834 yeah but that was literally at the beginning of the damn arc, that's why we begin with a high school life to buu himself. You're using it incorrectly
They could have Gohan easily defeat Kid Buu after Goku and Vegeta rescued everyone from Buu's body. I never understood why that wasn't an option.
I noticed he actually held his own against Buutenks at the start. But Gohan was suddenly getting his ass kicked in the opening of the next episode. I always found that a bit strange.
“No padding in the story”
This is dbz man even the good stuff is 70% padding
ChannelMan434 yeah, there hasn’t really been any point where DBZ had good pacing
namek will explode in 5 minutes.
and 2.5 hours later, namek will explode in 3 minutes.
This video is so dumb lol like are those really the reason y the arc is bad
Skooma inna cup rn Welll, i agree that some of this is pretty dumb, but the buu saga does go pretty slow. Just watch the buu saga, it’s still definitely a great arc, but it’s veeeryyyy slow (in comparison to the rest of dbz)
@@TamperedSource It's not a bad arc, just the weakest and he makes fair points. Buu as character is the weakest of them all. His only reason to exist is give an excuse for the insane amount of crazy powerups. "A hero is only as good as his villian" meaning if the villain is weak the entire heroes story falls apart. Look at Vegeta, Frieza, and Cell and compare to them to Buu. It's clear Buu is the weakest in terms of characterization.
Vegeta wants to be stronger to avenge the saiyan race, Frieza wants the dragonballs to become immortal because he fears death, Cells entire purpose was to destroy goku to get revenge for his creator. Buu has no goal, no motivation, no kind of personality. He's just a pink blob who absorbs people and likes to kill. Atleast with Babdi buu had a reason to exist but once he was killed off, Buu was just there. He added nothing nor subtracted anything, just a threat that exists.
"You're better than me Kakarot" that moment will always stick with me, a true diamond in the rough
Yet some people can’t take the fact that goku is just stronger than vegeta
@@everyonesfavoritecaptain335 and he will always be
Johndarrion Abney they will be close but goku is always 1 step ahead I believe whis even says that
@@everyonesfavoritecaptain335 Goku is just more talented than Vegeta.
Vegeta is better than Goku imo, he just makes more sense and isn't as dumb. His raw strength is currently stronger than Goku's and yeah I know Goku has UI but that power can be achieved by almost everyone, he can't activate on command. Vegeta SSBE > Goku SSBKKx20 *because* it doesn't drain as much energy
I adored Buu's inconsistency, his many forms. Buu was described as a destructive being that was just barely contained by a dark magician. And in many regards we saw glimpses of that until he was finally cut free.
And unlike all the other villains before him, he was entirely unpredictable. He was pure chaos. And that grew more and more until kid buu. I considered it brilliant. I was indeed never comfortable with this villain. I felt much more fear than I did with any villain prior. Because he was difficult to read and had the power and capacity to make any random and destructive choice.
He was horrifying. I loved it.
buu arc is my favorite even tho i do agree with some things from the video
Exactly.....Majinn Buu is a COSMIC being........this review is trash, The Buu Saga is excellent
Almost everyone hates on buu
I liked that aspect too until he started absorbing characters. Then, IMO, he became a lot less interesting until Kid Buu arrived
@@Tobenatorr the absorbing characteristics made him more interesting
People forgetting that Buu did what the other villains couldn’t, he literally wiped out the human race and proceeded to blow up the earth. Not even Frieza nor cell could accomplish that. Take that in for a moment
I mean... Technically they could have. Frieza could have went straight to earth popped out and planet vegeta'd it before we went to namek if he chose to. Cell could have definitely just blown the earth up at anytime before he enraged gohan he just chose to do the cell games and play with them.
Frieza and Cell didn’t want to blow up the earth. They could care less. Frieza just wanted immortality. Cell just wanted to make sure he was the best , probably due to his saiyan DNA. He used blowing up the earth as motivation to get the best of his opponents for his tournaments
And he was already Immortal, which Is what Frieza desired
To use some pro wrestling parlance; Buu wiping out the earth should have been the moment the monster was made. But this angle had so much going on that it became a footnote.
Who cares if boo destroyed earth. It all means nothing if the villain doesn't have good character development and boo had none.
Here's what I think about the Buu arc character wise:
Goku needed to learn that he indeed has to stay on Earth in order to protect it. Villains that don't have anything to do with him can show up and totally annihilate those he entrusted Earth to.
Vegeta needed to learn that teaming up isn't announcing you're weak. It's admitting that you will overcome any obstacle, including getting outside help.
Gohan needed to learn that his dad won't always be there, that Vegeta sometimes won't be enough, and that he needs to take responsibility and step up to the plate if either of them are absent.
Piccolo needs to learn to help train the future generation so that situations like Buu don't happen again.
And Goten/Trunks need to learn to not rush into things and be cocky/follow the leader. They need to learn that they are responsible for protecting the Earth, but also that they need to learn to take it seriously.
I'd have to disagree on a few of those points. If Goku didn't come back, Buu probably wouldn't have woken up. Piccolo had already trained Gohan personally, he seemed to understand the future generation was going to surpass them but needed his guidance.
Craig Yeah yeah Vegeta would of put a stop to Babiddi’s shit if Goku has stayed in otherworld were he belongs.
I get what you’re saying but that’s too many lessons that were half baked
goku had a fair point of trusting in the kids power when fused and that, like that, the would be able to defeat fat buy, and they would be ready in the future
vegeta fused with Goku once and he was willing to do it at the end as well, and that's totally unexpected coming from him
they also messed up with Gohan and yeah, it was pathetic for him to not train throughout the years especially with Goku out of the picture
and yeah gotenks is a sin in the arc
I think I agree with you there. Also, I'd add that Goku himself needs to learn to take things seriously sometimes. In bothering to fight Vegeta at all, he was WORSE than Gotenks. Cause he KNEW he could've ended things right away with SS3 - either by beating Vegeta physically, or emotionally (maybe Vegeta would've just deflated at the sight of that and admitted defeat?). Anyway, that fight was unnecessary and just to fuel his battle-lust. He put his fun ahead of a quick resolution, and in doing so, helped to bring about the disaster that followed. Definitely guilty.
My two favorite series of events in the whole series come from this arc.
Those being Gohan’s school antics and training Videl, and Mr. Satan befriending Buu.
Oh... You poor poor soul
Training Videl was absolute cancer.
@@hwstar9416 pretty sure he was joking
So basically the "slice of life" moments. We barely see any of that in dragonball outside of fillers, and that's a shame. They really help flesh out the characters.
jksmasknz
“Oh my god, how could your favorite moment NOT be the 48 episode fight with Frieza?”
I loved how dark the android/cell ark was. Including the history of trunks and the conclusion to trunks returning to his time line. It was the highlight for dragonball z for me.
Frieza was pretty Dark too, History of Trunks and Androids gave a bit of dread and depression to that darkness.
I remember History of Trunks scared me as a kid.
@@whatsupbossanova yeah for sure. Genocide and racism all balled up into a hateful being with exraordinary power who kills for fun. Frieza was no joke.
@@DaDualityofMan hey same. Seeing gohan loose his arm was so shocking i didnt want to to believe it. Then he got killed and it was the first time as a kid i saw real ass content from the cartoons/anime i watched.
In the continuation of dragonball, the Future Trunks saga is pretty awesome as well.
It could be the bad arc, but oh boy, the majin vegeta part was my cocaine
Buu saga was the one with the least amount of editorial meddling. Previous arcs of Dragon Ball shaped into their final forms pretty much through Toriyama's editors, but Buu arc was him doing what he wanted.
Toriyama is excellent artist, and his page composition is probably among best in the industry, but on story side he pretty much benefited from editors guiding him.
I'm glad someone else said this. I've been saying it for the past year now. I think many of us should be a lot more grateful to Toriyama's editors for helping to steer him in a good direction. I think the modern era compared to the Z or early era shows us the difference they made.
It's uncertain how much of an effect on the plotting the change in editors had, since most of the editorial advising that we're familiar with are primarily just beefs with the type of villain he was going for throughout the Cell arc. There's little we have to go on beyond that, with too many variables at hand. At the end of the day, it all just boiled down to franchise fatigue.
@@Sawngawkuh Yeah that's true. We however know that Toriyama-san's first editor, Torishima-san recommended he make a shonen story about kung-fu. Without that, there is no Dragon Ball. So we can take that and the other notable edits Torishima-san advised in the Cell arc and extrapolate that Torishima-san had a huge influence on the franchise, nearly, if not as much as Toriyama-san. And likely, other editors had a huge influence as well, and clearly without them, DB has lost ... something.
Damn, your right
@@BelartWright There's a significant difference between recommending what kind of concept the author should tackle for their next story, and actually supplying in-depth ideas, advising on the plot's structure, what scenario should occur as a result of the last one, making them keep in mind the pacing of an event, and so on. Being the one to supply the genre behind an author's work doesn't really correlate with how well one is at being an editor.
And just to remind, but those influences in the Cell arc aren't very story-centric. They're just him repeatedly telling him that his new villains looked lame and don't work as bad guys (which, when it came to 17 and 18, were comments that wound up being largely debatable, given how successfully malicious they could appear in supplementary material, showing the potential they could've had in Toriyama's own serialization). He wasn't his editor by then, so he could only say so much without impeding on someone else's job.
I don't mean to undermine whatever involvement he had with the franchise, but at the end of the day, there's just not much to go off of. It's still uncertain if Toriyama, in his prime, was the kind of author that really needed to be kept in check or if it's just franchise fatigue inevitably seeping in after the series got bloated for so long and the cracks were starting to take their toll. It's especially blurry when the most notable examples of changed plans back then weren't alterations of inherently bad ideas, but just things that make us fans go "Aw, we wouldn't have this cool character and this other cool character if it weren't for these complaints!" in hindsight. That and the conditions and deadlines were starting to really be a burden for Toriyama, which could've had an effect on his work.
You forgot one important part about the Buu arc. Toriyama had nowhere near the amount of...let's call it meddling...by editors as he did in previous arcs. The Android Saga was originally going to only have Androids 20 and 19 as the main antagonists. His editor's comments gave rise to 17 and 18. Cell was only going to have one form. But due to the editor, we would up with Semi-Perfect and Perfect Cell. I believe if his editor was this much of a pest during the Buu Saga, we would have gotten something radically different, possibly much better.
Granted, I used the terms "meddling" and "pest" because of how much they interacted with Toriyama. For the Buu Saga he was basically left to his own devices.
Good point
well , Akira wanted that Gohan had more of his Saiyaman moments , thx for the editor to just make him go more directly in the action.
@@phantasosxgames8488 Saiyaman was my favorite arc actually
And how do you know having more androids would be a better story? That's not a story element, that's just more characters.
Eric Staples The editors were saying, “ You are not seriously going to have an old man and a mime as the villain?! You’re not seriously going to have two teens and a red head giant as the villains?! You’re not going to have a giant bug as the villain?! Stop messing with us and give Cell his perfect form!”
I got scared because I was the only one who voted "Buu Saga" in the poll in this vid...At the time because I was INCREDIBLY early for this video lol
I voted Buu saga too
Y’all gay👀
I voted saiyan arc for being the worst one
And it's not even bad
ua-cam.com/video/uZUggYhCKxI/v-deo.html
Spent so much time training Gohan to immediately feed him to Buu.
Hell he wasn’t even that strong by training most of the power came from his potential getting unlocked for free he didn’t have to work for it
@@sidecharacter3193 true. "Training" is probably an overstatement lol
Most of the Buu arc problems come down to one specific thing: Toriyama was just burnt out.
Not only in the writing, but also in the artwork too. You can feel Toriyama's exhaustion during this arc from the drawings alone.
The Buu Saga made me fall in love with Mr. Satan’s character. He was such a pleasure to watch, even him befriending Buu.
That's a good point, thanks.
@Hyrum Wood Hercule saved the planet.
"I think Mr. Satan should have trained martial arts skills more than his mouth!" In the Cell Games, Mr. Satan was a joking lier with his pants actually on fire from Cell`s energy blast. Although Cell held back on Mr. Hercule Mark Satan. In Buu Saga Mr. Satan showed that you do not have to always be aggressive to end a crisis. That lesson goes back to what started Dragon Ball since the beginning!" I fell in love with the Dragon Ball Franchise starting with the very first season of Dragon Ball. Then it continued throughout Dragon Ball Z all the way through GT. " I still love Super too!" We should enjoy the whole franchise since all series actually tell a relevant story that explains the whole truth behind the characters and their journeys. I will not tell anyone what to do. "Instead say I love the whole franchise!"
The champ was always the best the other characters just use cheap tricks
Yeah, true
"Buu doesn't have personality...... as a result needs babidi as his mouthpiece......". My Brain: "Ladies and gentlemen my name is paul heyman, and this is BRAAAAAACCCCCKKKKKK LESSSSSSSSNARRRRRR!!!!!"
Once i started reading this comment, i knew where you were going. 😆
*Brock
@@Robby818 r/woooosh
Just perfect
YASSSSS
I was honestly kind of hype at the start of the Buu arc. It felt like the series had reembraced its humor. The reintroduction of magic and it being the source of Buu's power seemed like maybe it would require the heroes to approach him differently than the "keep training / Zenkai boosting until you can handle the villain" that'd become a rut even by this point.
Vegeta's character development, culminating with his sacrifice was by far the best part of the Boo Arc, and probably the only indispensable one.
Him murdering a bunch of innocent people just cause he wants to fight goku therefore derailing his previous character development? His arc was long over and so was everyone elses thats why this arc feels so fillery. Vegeta blowing himself up literally accomplished nothing and in a world where death is a slap on the wrist its not even that emotional either.
@@waiflu no it wasn't over buddy
Then you totally fucking missed the point of "earth needs to be protected by the people living on it", the dark side of humanity like that robber turning boo into Super boo and Satan motivating humans to give their Ki for Genki-Dama
@@waiflu Except that Vegeta did not know that his soul would be retained to be able to be revived by the dragon balls in the first place. He, and all of us, thought his death was going to be it for good.
The part with Satan and Buu living together and the events that transpire from it are also a highlight. They justify Satan's existence as more than a one shot character and provide pretty much all of Majin Buu's character development throughout the arc. They're also the reason Buu got to be such a different main villain in the first place, because this part allowed him to start off as chaotic neutral and become truly villainous later. Without it, Buu would have to be a monster from the start for things to make sense.
As a Gohan fan, I'm just salty because he could've done so much more.
They needed to do so much more with his "Ultimate" form. Sure its not as flashy as SSJ, but IF Toriyama ever allowed him to learn its true potential, he'd be on par with Goku/ Vegeta. Think about this for a second... Toriyama stated the reason for Goku not being able to use the spirit bomb while in SSJ form is because that form requires MALICE. Gohans ultimate form is similar if not out right the same as the Spirit Bomb, only it infuses with his entirety not just manifesting into an attack, but instead his "Ultimate" form. If done right they could show how he can POTENTIALLY gain similar power to the angels with this form amd be on par if not outright stronger than SSJB. Tons of potential, just wasting away.
QUEENDOM as in they could've done more with his character slow ass bitch lol tf get some comprehension skills baby girl
XxLeggZxX he's already stronger than ssb. Both anime and manga made that very clear.
I think it's also fair to consider how tired Toriyama was of writing Dragon Ball by that point
Yes,but even so a job needs to be done,and well
Tbf Toriyama just isn't a good writer, he just managed to release DB at the right time
ya Toriyama is not some masterful writer. He always just wrote what he wanted at the time and especially with how successful Dragon Ball became his editors basically allowed him to write what ever no questions asked (the same thing happened to George Lucas and the Prequels although George is a better writer and the prequels did have a great story hidden behind all of the shit but off topic) and as a result we went from the Cell saga where Gohan was suppose to take over to nvm Goku is back and Gohan kinda got shoved into his role of fighting the bad guy to stall him until daddy arrives.
@@a-drewg1716 Lucas is a shit writer and needs masterful editing to salvage the crap he produces.
How Star Wars Was Saved in the Edit ua-cam.com/video/GFMyMxMYDNk/v-deo.html
Interesting watch
For me personally, Buu was just never as compelling as Frieza or Cell. He was just a pink blob that liked to destroy things
Kid Buu maybe (and that's why he was the perfect villain to end DBZ for me), but Super Buu liked to have fun fighting, just like Cell's perfect form, and Mr. Buu had a great character development in the arc.
@@LuisGustavoSO Kid Buu is such a boring villain. He basically has any stereotype of Dragon ball
@@subwaysurfer5378 could you tell me other DB villains (before Buu of course) that are like him? Because mostly of the boring and generic ones are like Freeza.
@@LuisGustavoSO Yes but Frieza and Cell can at least talk. Kid Buu is boring. He doesn't talk and is annoying
I feel Buu was a misguided child who didn't know anything but destruction that's why his reaction to that pregnant woman was adorable
One of the best paced arcs, THE NAMEK SAGA
fIvE mInUtEs ThAt’S hOw LoNg YoU hAvE
i actually liked the namek saga the most
wirst half of the cell saga was also nice
The manga actually has it 5 minutes its the dbz anime is so bad with fillers but Kai kind of does it better.
When you consider the fact that they're moving at relativistic speeds and factor in Einstein's theory of special relativity, it's entirely possible that the fight we saw took place over the course of five minutes due to time dilation. Of course, Toei didn't think of that and just wanted the fight to be long.
@@komrot5305 in the manga the fight is much shorter, it's extended in the og dbz anime because of filler and the anime was way ahead of the manga, Kai shortens it but the manga is still shorter than kai.
@@komrot5305 I completely agree. It makes a lot of sense. Its actually weirder when they say the fusion has a 30 min timer, so that should technically be an eternity at their speeds.
Long story short: The Buu Saga has its moments but it is definitely not as well written or as focused as the Frieza and Cell Sagas.
Lmao xD.
The buu saga is far better written than the cell saga. The cell saga starts good, but goes to shit fast, until the cell games begin its literally the worst saga in dbz
@@abbacuspotter9232 buu saga sometimes did not even make any sense.cell saga was my favourite
@@bladey_0_10 literally jist finished rewatching dbz. The buu saga makes way more sense than the cell saga does.
The cell saga only has its start and finish going well. The rest is the worst of dbz.
@@bladey_0_10 people remember how awesome cell is and how great the cell games are.
The rest of the saga is pretty cringey.
@@abbacuspotter9232 Dude you are crazy. The Cell Saga is arguably the best written.
Cant wait to see your drawing of Cell in Toriyama's style, after drawing him myself I now understand why Frieza came back to life instead haha. So detailed!
Unpopular opinion: Cell is easyer to draw than Frieza xD (evry single time i'm drawing Frieza, he looks like a girl lmao).
@@dragonbird1283 what kinda girls do you know lmao
@@jirenjoestar3665 No,i mean...evry single time when i'm drawing Frieza his body proportions are really female looking xD.
@@dragonbird1283 fair enough
@@dragonbird1283 So you can't draw a swimmer's build?
The buu arc in one sentence:
Buu is evolving
Just backwards
Little forward first
Then backwards
I think a better word would be "disappointing"
@@darksydexv2637 ,,.,,...
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@@lesegonzimande6180 wut
"Well paced arc"
>Frieza Arc
I'll be waiting for a worthy argument
Just give me *5 minutes*
>Laughs in Kai/original manga
I will say that even in Kai the final fight between Super Saiyan Goku and Frieza drags a bit too long and could've been shorter, but it isn't nearly as bad as it used to be, and it isn't as bad as the Buu Saga is. Saiyan and Cell saga are both better paced than it though.
@@Shredow2 *laughs in tournament of power*
Atleast the tournament of power introduced us to Mr. Satan , shadow is right SSJ Goku and Frieza fight overstays it’s welcome
@@garrethizer How is that a counterargument when the tournament of power is in DBS not DBZ
*12 hours* that's pretty accurate
For me, the arc suffers because:
1. Buu is an improperly fleshed out antagonist with no meaningful motivations
2. There are far too many transformations/power ups without enough time put into them that would deem them earned and/or justified.
3. Much of the dialog gets too silly at times, and only results in a degradation of the character's personality (which had been established and built upon by the previous arcs)
4. It followed the Cell Saga. Which, had a definitive end from a well structured story that included many thorough character arcs. So what ever followed the Cell Saga had to be as good or better to keep itself from looking like trash.
"No wasted movement in the Frieza arc"
Bulmas Crabventure would like a word.
If you exclude the anime and are looking at this from the perspective of the original manga, I'd agree with Mark and say that it's a well paced arc.
Bulma's Crabventure was neccessary, she retrieved a dragonball from the crab, sure even Krillin could've done that, but he was off dying somehwere
Kojin
Non canon adventures is more like it. We are talking about toriyamas story telling skills. The crabventures are anime only. The Frieza Arc is the best paced arc.
Most likely talking about the manga. That scene was anime filler. The anime in general was badly paced.
Anime only. Doesn't count.
I so appreciate your intelligence in covering the topics that you analyze. There's an effort and care that you don't often find from other creators. I can't wait to binge everything you've done!
Toryiama: "I'm going to cook up a nice new story. There's Gohan doing relatable stuff like going to school and meeting girls."
AND WHAT ABOUT GOKU? *gives SSJ3*
"Then there are Goku and Vegeta's children being friend teaming up with a powerful technique to stop evil"
AND WHAT ABOUT GOKU?
"Then Gohan finally take back the spotlight..."
AND WHAT ABOUT GOKU?
"Ah fuck it"
that's pretty accurate
Hey atleast Goten and Trunks got some sweet corn
this is a better analysis than lazily referencing Creative Writing 101 techniques as if it is deep
Yep. Either Gohan or Vegeta finally defeating Buu would've been so much better.
At this point I wished The story would end in the Freeza saga. Fans keep talking trash.
Say what you will about this arc, but the Great Saiyaman Saga was incredible.
Also _We Gotta Power_ and _We Were Angels_ are amazing songs.
Hydrei 123 someone who gets it lol
Hydrei 123
Agreed
@Arthur Tintagel Except it isn't filler.
yes brooo
@@hydrei1232 some is filler and some is not I believe
I really feel like I Loveeee the Buu Arc more than the Saiyan Arc or even the Namek Arc, but I know that objectively from a narrative structure, the Buu saga is EASILY the worst arc.
Agreed
Whoa now, hold your horses. Don't forget the Android/Cell arcs. Possibly a tie with GT as the worst thing ever to happen to Dragonball.
@@Necrobadger Well, one could argue that the Cell Arc is the best Arc in DragonBall overall.
And that person would be a psychopath.
@@alesanapoodle7529 The 2nd best.
i actually like the fact the buu's personality changes when he eats people/transforms/gets stronger. Its like he takes them in mind, body, and soul.
Plus, Its more tense because you have NO idea how he is going to react after each transformation.
Patrick Star had enough of peoples shit so he became Majin buu
Makes sense with how smart buu is
@@xxzenonionnex7658 Yup
10/10
majin buu is a copy of earthworm jim and a sperm cell
I always felt like patrick was just a pink earl, from toejam and earl, same pointy head, same shorts, no shirt, everything, the resemblence is uncanny
Will TFS make the Buu saga better?
Find out in 10 years from now ...
Well they made Krilin and 18's relationship more believable, they will manage.
They did make the cell saga better somehow, gave 16 a good (yet short) backstory on how he became a android, and made krillens and 18s relationship a bit more believable (asides from the fucking jokes)
They'll figure something out
(not to mention how they made hellsing ultimate entertaining that the original thing where the jokes......don't hit well).
Yeah, no shit. They're not too good when it comes to time tables, though some of that can be blamed on Toei for being bitches.
Abridged!Mr. Popo vs. Abridged!Super Buu.
*That is all.*
>they made krilling and 18s relationship more believable
?? not they didnt they just made jokes that shes gonna fuck him if she survives wow 10/10 writing
18 loves krillin because he risked the world getting destroyed with not destroying her and wanting to make her life better with wishing her to be a normal human(didnt work) again
with this in mind its even more of a shame TFS wont be doing this arc
Yeah this arc would of been the best for it
Nope this arc is already a parody of dragon ball it would have been shit
@@zenituragaming5043 They gave life to Perfect Cell and he was one boring ass bitch in the original. I'll never doubt TFS's ability to make comedy gold out of trash
@Roberto Becerra ok Robert, let’s hear your sense of humor. go on.
@Roberto Becerra you got mad at someone elses
The Buu Arc was a 5 act structure really. very Shakespearean.
Boo Arc Issues:
Gohan: went from going toe 2 toe with Cell to being a joke
Supreme Kai: scared Piccolo silly and then turned out to be trash
Boo: too many transformations into different Boos
Uub: Interesting character that is never heard from again
Nilrak yesdnil: can’t spell buy right
Boo Radley?
Gohan: Slacked off
Supreme Kai: Considering Buu killed most of them... Not that big of a deal, honestly.
Buu: The dynamics of the transformations actually made it fun for me.
Uub: Foreshadowed. GT was a mess regarding Uub, but Super might have a better chance.
When was gohan a joke in that arc
@@252musicplugz2 IMO great saiyaman was lame and then the Z Sword stuff. To go from being the new strongest in the universe to being corny was a loss. I dont skip any of the episodes when i watch though
The funny thing is Toriyama has the most freedom during this arc and it's the one people love the least... He just wanted to tell a more light hearted story with cool fights and gags in the end... His editors are responsible for making him focus on more serious plots and intense motivation fueled battles... Super and Dragon ball resemble the buu saga far more than the other arcs... As fans we just have to admit that while we adore the universe Toriyama created we didn't want him driving the narrative of that universe...
This is the truth here.
When you really think about it, the Buu arc was the most "Toriyama" part of Z. Villains based off folklore and mythology rather than aliens (well they were still aliens but yeah) and a gag-filled story with emphasis on cool moments and character storylines rather than overarching plots.
You know what you are right about the light hearted resemblance Akira Tori Yama chose. And I do like that just a bit more than war and bloodshed. However, it makes sense to mix the two carefully while having fun. That is what makes Dragon Ball awesome. "So Kudos to Mr. Akira Tori Yama no matter what!"
Super shouldnt even be acknowledged.
@Sun Wentai 90 No the Buu arc did do its comedy and seriousness well, it just didnt have a plot. Babidi and Buu were some of the gooiest villains in the series yet they still had a threat being the most gory killers in the series.
Buu saga is basically writer fatigue
he was pretty much done and in the Cell arc, he wanted Gohan to take over/be the new MC, but fans and staff didn't want him to - and that's also why Gohan feels so lackluster in this one.
M e K u D u - man that’s not true at all he has complete freedom in this arc that’s why it’s weird
@Julian Laborde fans didn't like the idea of gohan being the new MC ?
Don’t comment if you don’t know what you’re talking about. The fans had nothing to do with gohan as the main character idiot. Toriyama himself has said he didn’t feel gohan was a complete enough character to be the main character. Toriyama freakin killed off vegeta just because the fans didn’t want him to and no he was done after the frieza arc moron
@@mekudu-man3804 Not true. The reason was because Toriyama felt that Gohan wasn't fit for the role of the central protagonist. He toyed with the idea and it clearly shows during the Buy Arc, but in the end he couldn't follow through with it.
I liked the Buu saga, and some of the most iconic moments of DBZ took place during its span, but there was definitely a tonal shift, and it feels more lighthearted and goofy compared to Frieza and Cell.
It's funny, the first half of the Buu saga was aces. Basically all the way up to Vegeta's sacrifice. After that I feel like we didn't get what was promised and most of it feels disjointed from what was setup at the start. The Gotenks stuff feels like it could've been trimmed a bit, but ultimately he always felt like a stalling tactic. I think that the arc really should've ended with Gohan as the savior, but Toriyama-san didn't pull the trigger. Ending with Vegetto would've been okay too, but with more of a struggle, but I understand why you wouldn't want to end with fusion in a show about martial arts philosophy.
For me, the biggest problem was always the Saiyan saturated in this arc. It really set a bad precedent and I feel Piccolo, who's versed in magic should've played a bigger role, maybe suggesting and trying Mafuba to seal Buu.
The fans as a whole rejected Gohan and wanted Goku to come back so that wouldn't happen
I maintain that Vegeta's sacrifice SHOULD have killed Buu or at least a large portion of his power so that the others could finish it without Goku or Vegeta.
It would have made Vegeta more meaningful, given him a proper send-off to his arc as a character, and given a conceivable reason how the remaining characters could finish a weakened Buu off.
@@sethsherlock9694 Yeah, I actually kinda wish fusion wasn't introduced into the show so that kid Trunks and Goten would have more development. It would have been great if they and Gohan found a way to actually save everyone and at the end, bring Vegeta back.
@@baseupp12 Its more based on what Toriyama-san felt. He said he didn't feel Gohan was a suitable protagonist at this point and so he went with Goku instead.
I would vote buu saga too, but it's still better then gt and super. They screwed over gohan and piccolo after cell ark. Piccolo is one of my fav characters, then Gohan was till they made him suck.
“Maybe Buu kills Videl” jeez calm down a little
VictoryVick
damn after her Spopovich beatdown she kinda doesn't deserve that.
but ar the same time she is a little badass who could take it and it would have given Gohan more investment.
just imagine it with his line before Super Buu: "Fight you? No, I wanna kill you." it'd be fuckin cold.
Is everyone forgetting that Buu did kill Videl?
@@RacingSnails64 The Spopovich beatdown started too quickly. Gohan taught her how to fly and she'd seen energy blasts first hand, she should've pulled off a kamehameha(seriously, everyone else learned it pretty easily, so why not her) and then have *that* not be enough.
It would've helped sell the helplessness of the situation and also justify Vegeta wanting Babidi's powerup.
@@InfernosReaper what do you mean easily? Master roshi took 50 years to create and master it, krillin only barely got it after years of training yamacha proabably got on from krillin in the 5 year gap before the saiyan saga.
@@aTristicionAXA Yamcha learned it back in Dragonball *offscreen* with *no one* actually teaching it to him. Moreover, no one taught Krillin the move either, nor did he train to do it. He didn't even seriously try to do it even once until *after* seeing Yamcha do it, yet mastered it on the first genuine attempt.
>
We know this because Roshi is genuinely surprised when each of them gets the move down.
>
So, *no*, Yamcha didn't learn it from Krillin and Krillin didn't spend years training to learn it. Given little time Goku and Krillin spent learning the move, it's likely it didn't take Yamcha that long to figure it out either.
>
Videl learned how to fly, when none of those 3 could do at the time. There is no reason she wouldn't have the aptitude to figure out how to do an energy blast, which generally requires much less energy control.
It's also baffling that it took Roshi so long to make the technique, given how quickly others mastered it with little to no training.
My favourite arc is still the Cell Arc. Even though I understand why to many it's the Frieza Arc.
Cell Arc was was almost perfect (no pun intended). Just the Cell Games was a little messy
and uninspired idea.
Cell was the best villain in _Dragon Ball Z._
*Fight me, bitches.*
@@Maximus4587 Agreed!! Even though it is Frieza who's undeniably Goku's archenemy. But Cell was the coolest villain.
Funny thing toriyama didnt really inted the android cell arc to be what it was shonen jump forced him to change it.
Kinda like the 4th hokage was gonna be a dog. Those authors need there heads examined
I agree
The pun was intended don’t lie to me 😑
Honestly I think Toriyama just didn't know how to finish it so every "phase" of the buu Saga was its own ending until he found the ending he thought was the best
Buu is probably one the most aggressive Dragon Ball villains ever😱 But please, do a video about Cell✨🙏🏻
Wolf1991ism 1 yes cell is one of my favorite villains
This man showing his age, trying to communicate with emoji...
PalPlays stfu, what’s wrong with him or hero using emojis?
yes i would love a video about my favorite bug 🐜
When you think about it, Buu never ran from his fights or had others fight for him. His kid and super forms are always going to be my favorites. Except his fat form, didnt care for it.
Problem with Buu saga was the begining, Great saiyaman part ,a new tournament then introduction to Buu, all happening at the same time, too much stuff convoluted.
Kal-El fan 49 yeah totally agree
Kal-El fan 49 but there are some good moments that I liked it:
Goku vs Majin Vegeta
Vegeta's sacrifice
Goku's dialogue before killing Kid Buu
And the animation.
Kal-El fan 49 in my opinion is the worst Saga of DBZ I don't hate it but is totally mess.
I prefer Cell Saga because is my favorite XD
If by problem you mean the best things about it I agree
Julio Augusto Samaniego Lopez I hated Goku’s speech, just felt so cheesy.
My favorite unnecessary section in the arc: the absorption rescue. After Goku and Vegeta, as Vegito, willingly took the risk of getting absorbed by Buu in order to save their allies, they destroy their Kai earrings haphazardly, almost die on several occasions while inside Buu, actually manage to rescue their allies... and then leave them on Earth as it gets destroyed because Goku spotted Satan(!) and Dende to rescue instead. The de-coupling of fat-Buu was about the only productive objective accomplished that couldn't be achieved from outside Buu, and even that saving grace is hurt by the fact that Vegito could have easily annihilated Super Buu, and then wished away all the damage with Dende's help.
It was fruitless efforts like these that made this arc more of a stress endurance test than an engaging story for me, hahaha. Otoh, this trait is also what made this particular saga so damned memorable.
Too many 'characters doing stupid/prideful things that backfire or get everyone killed' and the sort of 'flanderization' of traits.
Like, on Namek...Vegeta was cocky, but he wasn't too cocky to know when he was outmatched by Frieza or the Ginyu Force. He actively avoided them a lot, and even when he decided to give it his all to fight them, he knew he was outmatched or was just trying a good game face.
And Goku...while merciful and wanting a challenge, was not idiotic in how he took on Frieza. Yes, letting Frieza power to 100% was a bit foolish, but in the heat of the battle it was sort of understandable.
Then you get to the Cell arc...and after a doomsday message from the future, ALL of the Dragon Team collectively decide to NOT stop Gero and prevent the Androids from happening, nope....they want the challenge of training and taking them head on. They spit in the face of someone who traveled IN TIME to give them a chance to save themselves.
I don't think Vegeta or anyone on Planet Namek would have scoffed at defeating Frieza in an indirect way, because they took him seriously.
When Vegeta has Cell beaten, he just LETS him become Perfect "for the challenge"....yet I have doubts that if Vegeta had Frieza in a similar position on Namek(like after Dende healed him, for example) that he would have shown that kind of arrogance against Frieza, I thing he would have killed him while he had the chance...being more merciless.
Goku gives Cell a Senzu bean and sends in a woefully prepared Gohan to fight him.....I don't think he would have pulled that type of foolishness against Frieza.
Stuff like that makes everything feel like it matters less. When the characters start being so flippant in how they are gambling the fate of the world/their loved ones....it starts to all feel like nonsense, and we see it go even farther in the Buu Saga.
Post Frieza, DBZ has always been a very poorly written series propped up by awesome characters, cool concepts, cool fight scenes, and love of the earlier storytelling.
Oh shit. Great point. Never thought of that. Vegito could've just killed buu
@@ChrisPeteG i dissagree with one thing (technically 2 but it is really minor), the spitting in the face towards future trunks.
the reason why the z-fighters didn´t find just wish for gero´s lab location (for a challange sure) was mostly because the androids did not do anything wrong yet, and in hindsight they were right. 17 and 18 spared their lives eventhough they tried to kill them and even teamed up against cell immediatly without hesitation, they commited a few petty crimes at worst and went on to perserve nature or start a family. So i find it unfair to
call the z-fighters stypid for something they were right on.
also another thing: cell has 2 androids in his body with infinite energy, so cell should also have infinite energy. and because of his namekian DNA he can regenerate any damage for the price of losing some energy, but becuase he has infinite energy he can infinitly regenerate, right? so in a way, he bassically has infinite senzu beans within him so giving him a senzu is redundant. goku giving cell a senzu bean is stupid but not because he gave cell his stamina back and healed his wounds but because cell himself is practically a senzu bean factory.
@@ChrisPeteG There mostly wasn't too much of that and there wasn't any flanderization of traits.
Wrong, he died trying to fight Frieza after all and he thought he could beat him.
I mean...it was still foolish and lines up with him having Cell fight at his 100% by giving him a senzu bean and him letting Goten and Trunks fight Buu as a fair fight instead of going ss3 and killing Buu himself.
Which lines up with Saiyan traits...especially with how Goku decided to spare Vegeta in part because he was a good challenge. Not really as they train themselves even harder then before and do save themselves.
Vegeta would as he wanted to fight Frieza himself head on.
Nah he would have done that exact same thing against Frieza and even if he wouldn't it's different as Frieza had tortured and mocked him for so many years and blew up his home planet. Maybe...but he may also decide to do things his own way too.
He did pull that type of foolishness against Frieza though by letting him power up to 100%.
No everything still feels like it matters just as much as it did before those things happened. They aren't being flippant though and it doesn't feel like nonsense. The Buu Saga feels more like nonsense but for different reasons and the characters still aren't flippant in it.
Not really, it was mostly well written.
That wasn't unnecessary though, they needed to do that to rescue their friends and family and to keep them alive and doing that weakened Buu too. Which was a mistake on Goku's part honestly but saving Satan did help them beat Buu. Which was their main goal there and Vegito couldn't have easily won...and even if he could have the others would have still died which isn't good as they needed them alive. Why would they wish away the damage but kill their friends and family? They can't just do something like that without any thought or care.
Those weren't fruitless efforts as they still did rescue them and they did weaken Buu and it was both a engaging story and a stress endurance test lol.
Saiyan saga: is intimately connected to the protagonist past and its unkown secrets
Frieza saga: links its new concepts with we already knew and didn't knew for a dramatic climax
Cell saga: rescues elements apparently forgotten and starts the development of Gohan
Buu saga: *random bullshit, go*
I disagree about gohans development in the cell/android saga because he did absolutely nothing until the end when a head of a robot id be surprised he knew the name of died
Also he a pasfist now
@@AllMight6he’s always been a pacifist, he never wanted to be a warrior to begin with lol
I will always call the Buu Arc "Vegeta's Midlife Crisis Saga".
Boooo you suck!
Hes not wrong though. My other post elaborates this.
"Me too or Vegeta`s Growth Saga!"
Ultimate Gohan could and should have been a wonderfully mystic lead character, with Goku as a mentor figure much like Master Roshi was in original Dragon Ball!
Yeah, it was a mess. It seemed a lot like Toriyama kept jumping from protagonist to protagonist for someone new to throw at the Buu.
In the end it ended up being left to the usual two, making everything before that point seem absolutely pointless.
So anything not solving Crisis is bad writing
The "usual two" part should be removed here. In the fight against raditz it was the combined effort of goku gohan and piccolo. Against vegeta it was goku gohan krillin and yajirobe. Against cell it was gohan with a little help from vegeta. Even against buu it was pretty much everyone.
@@ripper3052 if only the protagonist can solve problems in your story it's bad writing
Goku and Vegeta fighting vs Buu together is when they became the "usual two".
@@IamKindness this. before that they were 2 completely insanely strong characters but nowadays you can't really see vegetawithout goku or goku without vegeta. their levels have just been upped to a way too high standard for the rest, the only characters that will be able to break the "usual two" standard are: good buu full power, maybe gotenks, probably not gohan but there's still a chance and uub. i'm not sure who else could make a good earth ally
90% of the arc was Goku relying om somebody besides him to take care of the problem and in the end they all just made things worse until Goku finally took care of the problem.
I always found the buu arc kinda odd to watch compared to the rest of the series
it was the "mr toriyama, we will give you full creative freedom, just please continue dragonball its printing us money!" arc
ikr it's so much better than the rest
It's only redeeming factor are the transformations.
Once you realize Goku could've showed up and spirit bombed fat Buu. Or taught Gohan the spirit bomb waaaaay before the cell saga. Or go ssj3 and stomp fat buu. There's alot of things that could've been avoided.
Cell imo was a tougher guy to beat.
@@MrREAPERsz bro cell saga had just as much that could've been avoided lol
Really? It's my favorite arc. I instanly think of it when thinking of the original series
Android/Cell Arc will always be my favorite arc.
Same!
Jeeses99 Tournament of Power? What the fuck? The 21st, 22nd and 23rd Tournaments were a million times better lmao. Also the Black arc from the manga destroys the ToP, I guess you haven’t checked it out.
@Jeeses99 Tournament of power? What are you 5?
@Jeeses99 Damn, ToP wasn't bad. These guys need to chill out haha
I think that was the worst and was when the series became stupid and ridiculous. They essentially created an antagonist that could not be killed because you can't cut him in half and you can't just explode him, then had to break the rules of the character to kill him by exploding him after they realized they totally wrote themselves into a wall.
tbh i got lost after THE 100000000th form of his
Fat buu, skinny Buu,Super Buu, Super Buu (Absorbed Gotenk, and piccolo),Buhan, and kid Buu
@@blackskullknight9062 Don't forget about Fat Buu trying to imitate some handsome guy to get a kiss. The most underrated transformation in DBZ.
@@infernorx8799 he had a different name in different localizations, in Poland we knew him as Trungoten.
@@infernorx8799 by bad been a while since I have the name written down.
@@infernorx8799 but yeah Buu was wasted in super including the final Arc.
Several characters in the show are even upset by how long it takes. Vegeta gets fed up with waiting multiple times, as does Buu
even if it was a mess it was the most entertaining mess ever.
R.I.P.
Gohan
"We will never forget your potential"
Year : Raditz Arc - Buu Arc
heavyeater for me R.I.P Gohan
Saiyan Arc- Cell Arc
And then _Super_ turned him into a weak, pathetic loser who keeps having to get saved by Goku...
One thing that always bugged me about the Buu saga is that no matter what, with the exception of the earliest parts of the story, I can never actually mentally put it all in order. Like I don’t remember what order the Buu forms appear in, I don’t remember when the different fusions happen, I don’t remember when who fights whom, I don’t remember when the Buu/Satan roommate situation starts. It’s all jumbled in my memory despite having watched it multiple times.
Fat buu>Thin Buu>Super Buu>BuuTenks>BuuHan>Kid Buu
Ss2 Gohan, Majin Vegeta, Ss3 Goku and Gotenks (base form) fought Fat Buu, Gotenks fought him the second time on his Super Buu form, then Ultimate Gohan came in but got defeated by BuuTenks, Goku & Vegeta came and fused as Vegito vs BuuHan, then final battle Kid Buu vs Goku & Vegeta in Supreme Kai's planet
Same. There is no real sense of story progression, just the heroes throwing different fighters/strategies at the villain until they win. With the other arcs you can follow advancement in the conflict. Buu Arc has the same conflict the whole way through while characters swap in and out
Anoyoichi Budokai Saga (195 - 199) -> Great Saiyaman Saga (200 - 209) -> 25th Tenkaichi Budokai Saga (210 - 219) -> Babidi Saga (220 - 231) -> Fat Buu Saga (232 - 253) -> Super Buu Saga (254 - 275) -> Kid Buu Saga (276 - 287) -> End of 'Z' Saga (288 - 291)
DEN 1014 I never understood why Kid Buu absolutely thrashes Goku and Vegeta in combat despite being the weakest carnation.
@@lilfriedchicken9920 My headcanon is that Kid Buu is stronger than Base Super Buu and Buuccolo, but weaker than Buutenks and Buuhan...
Buu saga is honestly said, one of if not my favourite arc in dbz.
Let me slap everyone who chose the Saiyan arc as the weakest.
I think the Saiyan arc is pretty boring at times, especially in the anime.
Gohan's journey stuff is boring, we should've get more time with Goku training in Kaiosama's planet
Kal-El fan 49 no, Goku’s story ended with Dragon Ball, and it was time to move on. Gohan’s character was already pretty shaky, as the asspull ending to the Cell Games being a textbook example of bad writing. I like the slice of life direction that the arc began as. If Gohan’s relationship with Videl had strengthened, it would be a much better deal. Most of the filler episodes with Goku on Kaiosamas planet were pretty boring, and had meh tier pacing. I think Videl would have resonated more if the focus was on her and Gohan.
Cmon son the Saiyan saga sucked
it pretty weak & namek & bits of cell teen gohan cringy ass
People of my age: studies masters degree at uni, have a child, got married.
Me, an intelectual: why buu saga is narrative mess?
He literally turned enemies into chocolate... And my boy Gohan was shafted.
Yes that was Buu`s energy ability. "That move was based on Monster Carrot`s technique from Dragon Ball!" If Gohan learned Goku`s past historical fights, Gohan would have combined the Turn into a Carrot and the Devil Might Beam, he could have made his own new move!" "Called: "The Polar Beam Technique!"
This was the point when Toriyama was burned out from writing Dragon Ball and looking at this arc it shows. It feels very disappointing how despite being built up Gotenks and Gohan never amount to anything in the grand scheme of things and apparently it's a Spirit Bomb of all random things, yeah the same attack that failed twice in Dragon Ball story and only succeeded in the movies is the one that kills the main villain and that itself is due to Hercule of all people and that's because nobody except for the gang on Earth refused to listen to Goku and Vegeta despite them all being killed by Buu and getting revived by the Dragon Balls yet somehow refuse to believe it all happened until Hercule said so because the people on Earth are the stupidest beings in the Universe.
its better than the cell arc its bullshit time travel is horrendous
Fans wanted goku back originally gotten or gohan would take his place as the Mc
@@dinogt8477 Yeah i will admit that for as much as i liked the Android and Cell Arc it's time travel plot is really confusing and hard to understand which is the result of Toriyama having to change the villains several times at the advice of his editor.
@@PlaidMystic I did hear that was what happened but i have also heard how Toriyama did the decision himself because of how he couldn't write Gohan as the main character. To me this serves as an indication for why Super and the Buu Arc to an extent are mediocre in the writing because of how limited Toriyama is in creative writing and rather than learning new things and improve his writing for a better quality show we instead not only get the same things we saw in Z for Super but in inferior quality as well since it has little of the creativity, passion and effort put into it like with Z that made the latter into a major icon of all Anime.
Seeing the humans devolve from well written and caring in the original to literally brain dead by the end of z manages to ruin the climax of the entire story because having the entire earth help you would have been an amazingly bulbils up thing with all the people holy has helped but instead it barley does anything and the entire climax is ruined to make joke about me satan
I loved Buu as a villain in concept. He’s not my favorite at all but I thought he served a purpose. He really did seem unstoppable. I like to think of him as the perfect scenario get Goku and Vegeta to let go of their pride. A force that opened their eyes and grew them as characters. I thought Buu was the only villain that Goku feared. He really worried that could have been the end for them all. Buu made him get serious to save the universe instead of getting serious to be stronger than his opponent. Same with Vegeta, and its also tied into his narrative arc. Two of the most prideful warriors finally decided to fight to preserve all that they loved. Then they use that love to destroy Buu, proving that love gave them the only power they needed. Not that prideful trait that plagued them.
Then Buu turned into Uub which was alright or whatever.
Your last part got fixed by Super noping the fuck out of GT
@@ThisGuyHasName Uub is canon in Super.
@@Dexuz I mean, all that's "canon" is that he's mentioned by Dende. His true introduction is still up in the air.
@@ThisGuyHasName
He appeared in the manga.
Trevon Hughes frieza and cell are a million times worse than buu you are just parroting what you tubers say
“No waisted action in this arc”
Yeah RIGHT! The damn thing was over 5 hours long!! Lol
That's why I hated the execution of fusions aside from Gogeta in Fusion Reborn and Broly, cause they never accomplished anything before said movies.
Chad's World Gogeta didn’t beat Broly in the movie, he let him live and the whole fight was meaningless. Well I guess it had meaning if you consider shilling out to the twelve year olds and making Broly a fucking main character meaning
Slimy Slug Lord Escargoon gogeta was going to kill broly if he didn’t get wished back to vampa
@@plat6559 why tf do you consider a fight "meaningless" if someone doesnt die? When going to war the king doesnt have to die for the country to be lost, yet youd call the fighr that lost the country meaningless?
My point is is that their is always shit going on in the fights, even if no one dies, there is still development. Thus, its not pointless
@@AlexiasPlaylist Yes, i agree.... (But there*)
@@EmeraldSaiyanBroly oh I know I just refuse to correct gramatical errors that dont change the meaning of what Im saying. Anyone who uses context clues can put together what that I meant "there" or they didnt care because they didnt even notice.
Thank you though for sharing your correction, I appreciate you attempting to help me speak with more nuance.
I loved the Buu arc. I'm rewatching it now.
im watching it now as well
Why put yourself in suffering for 5 years?
@hassan Zahid animepahe
And also pulling Pulling Piccolo from one of the top guys to mid-card
Well he can’t go super saiyan
@@everyonesfavoritecaptain335
Beerus, Whis
if you don't agree about them
Android 17,18 and Frieza
Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo
RG Phoenix you named characters with unlimited energy and people with godly power
@@everyonesfavoritecaptain335 And a Namekian who can regenerate and absorb people and also make dragon balls with enough power
RG Phoenix regeneration doesn’t mean immortality or invincibly he can only absorb other namekians plus he doesn’t like to and piccolo is a worrier clan namekian not dragon clan so he can’t make dragon balls
I feel like the fact that majin buu changes so often makes his character seem all that more terrifying, like he started out a complete moron but grew progressively more intelligent (over the course of a few days, it seems longer in the anime), then he snaps and is a complete lunatic. If you look at it from someone in their verses point of view It creates a feeling of fear and terror.
JeremyCuddles not really the closest we is gohan buu but buu? he's smart but more evil and silent. cell wasn't a discount frieza either
I think Toriyama needed a break after the cell saga, then the Majin saga would have been something different and great.
@@kelvingordon9579 I think you replied to the wrong comment dawg lol
Khai Truong oh shoot real talk my bad lol 😂
gotenks and ultimate gohan underwhelming was the whole point. it validates goku having to stay back on earth since he's the only reliable person that can handle the responsibility to be earth's greatest defender. he hoped he could put it on gohan but gohan doesn't have what it takes. he lacks leadership, decisiveness, competitiveness, and drive to push himself to the limits. goten and trunks weren't ready and probably aren't going to be.
Which is exactly why z ends with a fart and not applause.
Goku stopped being a character in the buy saga, he was just a plot device and literally everything else was just a pointless prop.
Which is why the arc sucks. It's a significant amount of totally unimportant wasted time. It's also totally stupid to act like relying on Goku is a good thing, as a most points in the story most of the problems exist because Goku literally doesn't take things seriously until people are actually dead, any significant amount of the problems get worse because of Goku's own kind of reckless attitude.
He's just the McGuffin of "I'm the strong one". And genuinely, and no way shape or form does he actually begin to start and act like someone with any degree of responsibility or sense.
Which is actually bad character writing because it seemed like after the cell saga he did learn quite a bit and should have been a lot more mature from literally just the ark that happened then.
I feel like gohan not being able to hold the torch TEMPORARILY, could have been good.
Maybe he did keep training, but he gets overconfident with Buu and almost dies, which leads to the failure of Gotenks which and the death of everyone on the planet, so when Gohan See's the product of his mistake, he's gets the Ultimate form which allows him to destroy Buu completely, and from this saga onward he could be more serious and not such an arrogant moron.
Just a concept, and I'd say that vegeta shouldn't die especially if he's just gonna get revived smh.
I loved the Buu Arc and it’s entirety.
-Gave us Fusion
-SS3
-Bad ass Villain Majin Buu
-Ultimate Gohan
-Vegeta grew as a character more
-Vegito
They should’ve stopped at Super Buu he looked way more menacing and a real threat than Kid Buu just my opinion. Just dragged on with Kid Buu.
Yea i agree
Everyone is hating on the buu arc but quotes it the most as well as use its images/ scenes/ etc the most in media. I’m not gonna act like everyone really hates this amazing arc
I don’t think a lot of ppl full-on hate it. It is very memorable and all in all (unlike some ppl) I am glad it exists. But it isn’t very good
It's like Star Wars prequels. People claim to hate it, but 90% of star wars content on the internet is about the prequel era.
That's the entire point of the video. The memorable moments in the arc are quite literally meaningless. A lot of really good ideas end up just tacked onto the story without actually contributing to it. And it's that very reason that the arc is bad. Not in spite of the cool moments, but *because* of them. Because they don't actually matter in the context of the story the way they deserve.
No one actually hates Buu arc because Buu Arc is not bad. Being the weakest arc of an anime that has no bad arcs is still no small achievement.
you can find something good within something that is bad, just because bits and pieces are well made, doesnt change the fact that the arc as whole is flawed.
Mark-"One of the most well paced arcs"
Me-" according to DBZ 5 min = like 3 hours of episodes"
ClamSham but if you’ve ever played games like xenoverse you’d know fights like Frieza can be won in 5 minutes. It’s just the cutaways, commercial bumpers, and dialogue pad the runtime
Christopher McDonald no wrong that was a fan theory that has been completely disproven it’s not slowed down for us the anime fight got ahead of the manga and dus needed padding ...
Christopher McDonald sorry it’s not this has been confirmed plenty of times it would have been a smart move for them to confirm it as fact bescuse it makes a lot of sense but it’s been confirmed not to be true many many times
Well, pacing isn't exactly "time." But I do agree the battle was a lasted a little more than needed.
...and that means more detail. its like a zoom tool in paint
Buu's absorption ability could have been such a great narrative tool for character confrontation- We see Buu take on the features and personalities of those he absorbs. The Kai who were respected and love by Kaio Shin. Both of Goku's sons, Gohan's mentor and little brother, Vegeta's only son. It would have been amazing seeing their interpersonal conflicts be channeled through Buu's dialogue as he fights them.
How about this - Babidi releases Buu but is immediately disappointed because Fat Buu isn't the world-ending avatar of death he thought he was. He doesn't know that Buu needs to absorb others to gain power, and part of being sealed in the seed was the extensive process of stripping away everyone he absorbed, leaving just a child-like husk. With every absorption, he takes on the qualities and power of who he absorbed, so in order to create the monstrous Majin Buu of legend, he basically had to be fed 'properly'.
Babidi eventually figures this out through some mechanism, and begins using it to build Buu's power. And early in the saga, one of the first characters Buu absorbs is Majin Vegeta.
This causes him to take on Vegeta's power and personality, but because he was so early in the power-growth stage, Vegeta's strong personality made him immediately break from Babidi's control.
As the series go on, the other characters learn about the absorption and fall one-by-one to Buu who increasingly grows in power. In desperation, they look elsewhere for answers, and that's where they learn about their OWN powers of fusion where they can mimic Buu's enormous power multiplication.
My only worry is that this is a little bit like Cell, honestly.
I liked fusion being introduced too. Always fascinated by people getting stronger and a new character introduced because of it.
The Videl part of the story did have a point, but she was dropped too early for the potential she had. Videl was the driving force to get Gohan to go to the tournament and round up the Z Fighters for it, which is where the Supreme Kai would find everyone, including Goku, to jumpstart the Buu revival part of the story. Goku came back for the tournament that Videl forced Gohan to go to, which allowed everyone to find Babadi and ultimately revive Buu, so without the whole Videl section, there wouldn't be a legitimate motivation to go to the tournament and for Goku to return for a day. For the Buu arc, I think it's about the journey, not the destination, like it was for Freeza, especially at the beginning. It built on the world established and showed how the average citizens reacted to DBZ concepts like flight and ki. Toriyama didn't need to establish Videl and the tournament, but it provided more insight on the universe. Same for fusion and Ultimate Gohan. Regardless, I liked the analysis and think the Majin Vegeta surprise villain idea would ahve made for a great narrative.
I would've loved to have seen videl die and gohan go all super rage and just basically break reality with a powerup of pure doom.
or something
Agreed, please read my comment above haha I read yours after posting mine and thought YES this person gets it too :)
If thats the case then ultimate gohan couldve propelled the story more if goku hadnt came back,i wouldve assumed that it just meant gohan didnt know what to do with all of that power and therefore wasnt ready to be the protector of earth like goku thought. Same with gotenks. It seems like they did have relevancy or potential for the future but squandered so there was still definitely a need for goku and vegeta
MrTopTenList I love your stuff man!
@@AaronSoul725 Thanks dude!
Hell was SSJ3 even needed in the Buu Arc?
It first appears in the fight when Goku fights Fat Buu when he's just stalling for time and doesn't need to win. It appears again against Kid Buu where it doesn't work and they need the spirit bomb instead.
Everyone else: *meaningful discussion and comments on the Buu arc*
Me: lel, Hollyweed
The Buu transformations are a lot, but they make sense within the story. It also comes full circle when Goku and Vegeta rip them out and release kid Buu.
Gotenks was definitely filler, but is used to show how powerful Mystic Gohan is by comparison.
Mystic Gohan, Gotenks, and Piccolo being absorbed set up the elder Kai’s “sacrifice”, and Goku’s need to be resurrected.
Vegito, Majin Vegeta, SSJ3, Gohan and Videl, Vegeta’s turn: as you stated, some of DBZs most iconic moments.
I guess overall my point is that while the arc may be the least liked, it is only so because it is competing with two of anime’s best. It is still amazing.
I was racking my brain to come up with another "worst saga", but I can't point to any one of them and say "that sucked". Except the literal fillers, like Garlic Jr.
It also depends on how many sagas you consider there to be. Is the Saiyaman Saga separate, or part of the Buu saga?
Garlic Jr was completely forgettable. Saiyaman was goofy and rather unneccesary, except for some backstory on Videl. The Namek Saga surely was the boring bit about the Frieza sagas.
Buu probably also suffered from DBZ overload.
As much as I love DBZ, it's gateway anime. It's cool, but not extremely well executed for several reasons. The worst offender being, it's just the same story over and over again.
Let's all be honest and admit "I've never felt a powerlevel like this!" was said every 20 episodes, and the solution to this newest stronger enemy usually was to have Goku attain a new SSJ form and kick its ass.
It might be the coolest shit you've ever seen the first time, but the second time, it's not quite as impressive, and by the time Buu comes around, it's old hat.
I have had the roughest day. Thank you for blessing my feed.
what happened?
Omni Edits Hope things get better for you man. I have had a rough week myself.
I hope tommorow is better for you
Ah bruh, hang in there!
I’m good now thanks guys! 🙏🏽
The Buu saga is actually my favorite, I like the drag time and the unnecessary things (because many unnecessary things happen during important events IRL so makes it feel more realistic to me)
I love the desperation Buu caused in the Z Fighters, everything
Not to mention that Super buu was the most degenerate character ever because he wouldn’t take anyone shit and didn’t feel bad for showing it.
The Buu Arc has the best and worst Dragon Ball Z had to offer.
ah yes that's why we watch dragonball, for realism
I liked it too wasnt my favorite cell saga was just because the characters personality