Oke, een jaar of wat geleden. Ik loop met mijn twee uit China geadopteerde dochters in Chinatown. Ze waren nog jong toen. Mijn oudste dochter ziet een Chinese man en zegt : hee, een Chinees!. Even later. Hee, nog een Chinees. En nog één, en nog één..... Jaren later is ze weer in Chinatown. Ze ergert zich en zegt: In elke Chinese winkel praten ze Chinees en ze denken dat ik het ook versta. In onvervalst plat Amsterdams zegt ze tegen me: Pap, ben ik eigenlijk nog wel Chinees? Volgens mij lijk ik uiterlijk ook niet op een Chinees....... 2013 rootsreis naar China. Ze zegt: Pap al die Chinezen zien gewoon aan me dat ik niet van hier ben. Mijn kleding of zoiets. Ze merken het, maar ze spreken me wel aan in de winkels. Ze laat een kaartje zien dat ze geen Chinees spreekt omdat ze Nederlandse is. De Chinezen vinden het maar raar. 2016 op bezoek bij haar biologische familie in Xiamen. Permanent een tolk voor het dialect van daar erbij. Zelfs haar biologische zussen zijn wat verbaasd dat ze geen Chinees spreekt. Ze maakt met haar biologische moeder en twee zussen dumplings. Ze zegt: Goh, ik voel me nu opeens een beetje Chinees :-) 2024 ze is nu 26 jaar. Ex-topsporter, contortioniste, acrobate, lifistyle coach, pilates docente in een relatie met een militair veteraan. Ze geniet van het leven en noemt zichzelf een banaan. Geel van buiten, wit van binnen :-) En je moest eens weten hoeveel ik van mijn beide dochters houd!
Mooi om te lezen. Ik voelde me zelf ook altijd een 'banaan' omdat ik de Chinese taal beperkt beheerste. In China zagen en hoorden ze aan mij dat ik niet 'een van hun' was. En in Nederland hetzelfde. Daardoor voelde ik mij altijd 'anders' omdat ik mij nergens echt thuis voelde. Tegenwoordig zie ik het juist als een rijkdom dat ik met zo veel verschillende culturen / talen ben opgegroeid!
Waarom uit China adopteren en niet uit Nederland. En als je hen uit China adopteert, waarom hen geen Chinees laten leren en zelf ook een beetje je best om de taal te leren en je te verdiepen in de Chinese cultuur.
@@rdd4356 Toentertijd kon er niet uit Nederland geadopteerd worden. Beide dochters hebben op Chinese taalles gezeten en wij als ouders ook. Alleen als je het nooit spreekt krijg je het echt niet goed onder de knie. Voor mijn oudste dochter kwam er bij dat ze aan topsport deed en dat ging conflicteren met de tijd die ze had. Onze jongste dochter had er gewoon geen zin meer in. En je moest eens weten hoeveel video's en boeken we over China gezien en gelezen hebben.
I am third generation Indonesian/Moluccan myself. Both my grandparents came to the Netherlands in the 50s. My parents were born in the Netherlands. However, to this day I still get the question 'where are you from?' I am from the Netherlands, no but where are your parents from? yes, also the Netherlands! Am I irritated by these questions, no. I understand that people including myself think in ethnic frameworks. But in my teenage years I did have an identity crisis, where do I belong? My father's side of the family thought I was Moluccan, my mother's side of the family thought I was Indisch. And to the Dutch I was a foreigner and when I went to Indonesia I was a Dutch person again. But I never really experienced discrimination in the Netherlands, I always felt accepted. Ultimately I feel like a citizen of the world and just try to be a good person.
@@parmentier7457 exactly this 🙏 We’re all citizens of the world 🫶 I relate to so much you describe here. I think in the end our dual cultures have created a third culture which is all our own, uniquely to us individuals 🤗
The people that ask you where your from, are they older Dutch people? I ask because I think the last few generations of Dutch people are more accustomed to seeing more people from different backgrounds and they grew up with them. I'm 52 and really had to think about it, that people like you just might be the second or third generation that was born here and therefore are just as much Dutch as anybody else, and had to alter my way of thinking. And I can totally understand that those questions make you feel like (unintensionally) you're an outsider. But I think that behaviour will die out over time. Acceptance has to come from both sides, and it takes time.
@@operius2385 I agree, it will grow out in time. Even though I was born and raised here, I have certainly felt like an outsider at times. Mostly because of people who will continue to see us as foreigners. When I was younger, that was a hard reality to accept. That no matter how hard I tried, I would never truly feel accepted. But I don’t believe anybody has bad intentions (I hope) and that it’s all just a lack of understanding from both sides.
People do not mean harm in that question. It is a genuine curiosity about you as a person, and instead of fighting that, you should think of it possitively. The fact that people care enough about you to ask and be interested about your herritage is something beautiful no?
@ I think it’s about respectfully asking. That keeps it positive. And I think in the end we all welcome conversations 🙏 Just not when the person is clearly trying to treat us like outsiders.
As an Dutch “ethnic European” in the Netherlands I never ask a Dutch person who “has the looks from another continent” about “where do you come from”… I just want to get to know the person as a person, not “why someone looks differently from me”. It’s up to anyone themselves to reveal their identity, whether it’s cultural, gender or looks. The world today is mixed and it’s a wealth to get to know people who are different from yourself. Evolutionary the most diverse population will be the strongest to stand the future.
I wouldnt ask it like that, because “where do you come from” seems to assume you’re not Dutch. But if I’m trying to get to know someone I would be interested in knowing about their heritage - and might ask about it. There is in no way any offense intended by that.
The world by far isn't as mixed as you picture. That's just a western thing, and even then it's not that prevalent. Most cultures in the world are pretty homogenous ethnically. And that's fine. Not sure what to make of the evolutionary comment. Biologically it does seem generally beneficial to mix dna from two humans worlds apart in ethnic group, but a culture can't be solely based around that. And if you were to mix all cultures, you'd ultimately still end up with a homogenous whole as it averages out. And strongest? No? Why?
You make a great point about national identity sometimes feeling like a club that others can’t join, even though it’s mostly based on where you (and/or your parents) just happened to be born. It can offer a sense of belonging, but it can also fuel an “us versus them” mindset that separates people. In a way, it’s both very real (because it shapes how we see ourselves and each other) and an illusion (because we’re all human, and these boundaries are mostly created by ourselves and the systems around us). That’s why I really admire people who navigate multiple cultures or move to a completely different environment and still find their own path. It’s not always easy to balance different traditions or languages, but it also opens you up to new ideas about who you can be-beyond just your “official” nationality. It’s a reminder that we don’t have to cling too tightly to one label. We can embrace whichever elements actually help us grow, rather than just what we’ve been told to accept. Maar even in het Nederlands: ik vind het supermooi hoe jij je eigen weg zoekt in al die culturen. Ga zo door!
Mooi verwoord en helemaal mee eens. Ik zou ook heel graag in de toekomst een tijdje in het buitenland willen wonen, om een keer iets anders mee te maken. Het leven is ook zo kort om alleen 1 land te hebben meegemaakt! En uiteindelijk zijn we meer dan alleen ons nationaliteit of etniciteit van onze ouders. We worden door van alles en nog wat beïnvloed en gevormd. Dank voor het kijken en de comment!
Vietnamese American here. Born in the US. I saw and still see racism all the times, from grade school to professional environment. Then some 15 years ago I went to Vietnam for the first time in my life. Let me tell you, it was an eye opener for me to see people who don't discriminate me based on my ethnic. I have since bought a house in Vietnam, and when I retire I will move to Vietnam. Asia is where the activity will be in the next century, the Asian century.
I understand you totally. I have thought of moving to Asia too in the past. It would be such a relief not to have to deal with racism or discrimination against you!
My Chinese Dutch friend sent me this-I’m a Chinese American living in The Netherlands who grew up in San Francisco’s Chinatown-your story resonates with mine too. Immigrant parents (especially my mom) who came with nothing and gave us everything. And being bicultural. It’s a story that many of us overseas Chinese share too. And it’s so important to tell these stories of our parents and our culture, so I wish you all the best and good luck!
I am living in Eindhoven since 2009, and we have more and more expats living in this city because of technology companys around. Both of my kids are born here. From time to time, I am also thinking about to how my kids are gonna identify themselves, if they will feel lost simply because they find themselves are not belong to any part of the society. But again, since our neighborhood is so diverse, at this moment, my kids are not feeling any exclusive at all. I think over time, the world will become smaller and smaller and we are all simply the citizens of earth.
I agree and that is my wish; for the world to see everybody as equals, just citizens of the world. Where we live now, there's loads of expats too and I do like the 'worldly' vibe better than where we used to live.
In the end, does it really matter how you should feel? Should you feel Chinese? Should you feel Dutch? It really doesn't matter. You can be a little bit of both.
@@igrien Exactly! Just be who you are, you're more than enough of a person without worrying about nonsense like "so which nationality do I feel more kinship with?" Now, to be sure, It's a very real question, but I feel it's very open ended. For me as a Dutch person, I genuinely like Indonesian people more, for example. Does that make me less Dutch? Obviously not. Does that mean I'm prone to dating Dutch girls? Well, not if thereś a South-East Asian girl to date. Mind you, that's not about race or anything, it's about mindset.
Personally as I have been a non native anywhere I lived I don't identify myself with my DNA heritage but as a being and that's very liberating instead of being trapped with labels "I'm this or I'm that" I prefer this is my planet and I am me
@ She did. Everything I have now is because of her. She is. She is now a very happy grandmother, in love with her grand child. She comes here almost every day to be with our Rosie 🥰🥺🫶
I am a Malaysian second generation Chinese as my father came from China. Now my children are living in Australia, New Zealand and Singapore. I returned to Malaysia with my wife because we have more friends and relatives in Malaysia. Now I only grand children in Australia can only speak English.
Nice to meet you. I love Malaysia! I plan to go again next year with my mother. She still has loads of friends and family there. Too bad your grandchildren can only speak English. I myself speak little Chinese and fear my daughter will probably speak even less than me! Which is a shame!
The topic starts at 07.12, before that she talks us on a walk through China town and talks about her book project. It’s two videos and topics fumbled together
As a dutch born kaaskop, I'd say you may feel you belong to wherever you want to belong. Chinese, dutch, chinese-dutch or dutch-chinese. There are so many chinese in the netherlands that you don't really stand out and in China you may not stand out at all, but depending on yr level of knowledge of the language, people there may also wonder where you are from
I am a 66 yo male, born in (then) Djakarta. From an 'Indisch' (mixed Dutch-Indonesian) military background. My parents & their 5 sons came in January 1967 to the Netherlands as it was the last possibility for people of mixed ancestry (remnants of Dutch colonialism) to come. Call it sth of a repatriation. Racism was sth I really endured. I grew up not far from Geuzenveld, in Osdorp. On one occasion was asked by a 'friend' not to enter his house, because his mother hated coloured people. Suffice to say that that was the last time I ever spoke to him. Even later racism was still lurking. But I refused to get defined by these nasty experiences. Other people don't get to determine who I am. Although born in Indonesia, and I am aware of & appreciate my Indonesian culture & background, I am Dutch & feel Dutch. Not because Indonesia is inferior to the Netherlands, but this country shaped me in every which way. The fact that I am gay as the oldest of 5 boys has also a lot with that. Also I know what it means to be a Christian in a country where at least 80% were Muslim. Don't get me wrong, my dear mother was Muslim, so was her father who was a devout. He was the one who told me that Jews, Christians and Muslims were children of Abraham. That we were related & shouldn't fight or hate each other. Problem was that you were still different than the other children. Here in Amsterdam I feel protected & secure. As a student I lived in England for a while, and I took an Interrail on several occasions. I love Europe, but Amsterdam is the place where I want to be & someday to die. You don't notice you live in a paradise, till you are out of it. Sure the Netherlands has its problems, but somehow or other we managed to talk the problems away & stay in communication. Last but not least I want to proclaim this to the world: 'Amsterdam, er is geen stad die ook maar aan je tippen kan.'
Doesn't matter. Just being yourself is more important and feeling happy. Be proud of where you come. The race that you are is the human race, like every living human being.from.
Great project and build from love and respect to the Chinese community in Amsterdam and Netherlands. Do believe its worth all time and effort to write history over the past and present✍💪👏
Thanks for your comment! I agree. If we don't do it now, I'm afraid it will be harder to retrieve all information for future generations. So I feel like now is the time!
You know what is a 'bijvoegelijk naamwoord' ? It says something about the word after it. A brown tree is still a tree. Yes, it's brown tho. A Dutch Chinese is a Chinese that is Dutch. Anyway, I'm far from racist and want you to know that everyone is welcome here. I admire the Chinese respectful culture.
@@TheJoaveck Thanks! I guess it's confusing because in English, the term British or American Chinese seems to be used more often instead of Chinese Brit or American. Me and my friends always argue which is more correct but we never end up agreeing haha!
@@igrien No problem and I hope you don't feel offended by my directness. I really just like to share my perspectives from the other side. There are conservatives in every country that don't like change. But I think we can only learn from getting to know other cultures.
@ I agree. I think discussions is what gets us further in society in the end and not blaming each other for not being this or that, that’s too easy. So I appreciate your time and thought!
I am born in Canada and served in a military form. Being born in a foreign Country would be quite a struggle. My Parents cold calm out look made my immersion actually very easy. My parents are from Scotland so a bit of a difference.
For my parents it was different. They didn't speak the language here and had to rely on the community to teach them how to survive in the Netherlands. If I wanted to move abroad now, I think it would be much easier because I was raised more 'western'.
I am a Dutch 'native' from Amsterdam, and although many Dutch people are not great fans of modern China (mostly because of the Chinese government with their often anti-western political views) i never heard anyone saying anything bad about (former) Chinese immigrants, or their now Dutch children and grand children. Never ever.
@@JanuzTrance68 With all respect, but just because YOU haven’t heard it, ever, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, ever. I have experienced it unfortunately.
What you said about growing up Chinese in the Netherlands, but not feeling like you belong to.the Chinese group or the Dutch group, resonates with me as an Asian growing up in America. But the part about becoming part of an American-British international culture is really interesting: we, as Asian Americans, helped create a lot of that culture but feel excluded from that culture just the same. We have had to push hard to be represented in many of the films, shows, etc. that comprise that culture, making it truly international.
I agree and wonder why that is. My Moroccan friends here say us Asian don't push hard enough, compared to other ethnic minorities. I don't know whether that's true; perhaps. I do see things changing and I hope my daughter will grow up in a world where we are more represented everywhere!
It is perfectly normal to ask a person where they’re from (originally) in my opinion. When I, a Dutch white skinned person, visit to the north, where my brother lives, people ask me where I’m from. They say I sound from the western part of The Netherlands, specifically (around) Amsterdam. Im not offended, although I should be, I don’t wanna be associated with people from Amsterdam, they’re a special bunch. Most people are just curious and interested, and have no harm in mind.
Agree that it doesn't have to be offensive. But when it's a question you've been asked your whole life, even though I write and speak just as good as any other Dutch, it can make you feel like you don't belong. I'm sure most people mean no harm, but indirectly, a question like that can be like I'm not Dutch, even though I was born here and feel more at home here than, for instance, in China, where I know almost nothing. It's a difficult thing to explain but I hope you understand!
Zou het een idee zijn om deze video ook gewoon in het Nederlands uit te brengen? As it is now this video resembles a video of an expat living for a few years in the Netherlands.
Goed idee! Ik ben nog aan het kijken hoe ik sommige thema's in het Nederlands wil doen en andere thema's in het Engels. Deze video had inderdaad ook in het Nederlands gekund!
@@igrienjouw engels is echt vloeiend. Geen NL of Chineed accent. Spreek je Manderijns en/of Cantonees? Mijn vrouw zou je 1e generatie (HK) chinees kunnen noemen. Alhoewel ze veeel te hard werkt heeft ze niet de 'hard ship' gekend zoals jouw moeder aangezien ze voor mij naar NL is verhuisd.. 😅 Haar conversational-Nederlands is prima... Toch praten we thuis gewoon engels. Misschien doe jij dat ook. Ik g je YT kanaal iig volgen.,, ❤
@ Ik spreek zelf Mandarijns en Hokkien en versta Cantonees omdat mijn man Cantonees is. Thuis spreken we nu Engels voor ons dochtertje. Dank voor het volgen! 🙏🙏
Does it matter? As far as I am concerned your nationality isn't a matter of birth. Your nationality is where your heart is. My greatgrandmother was Indonesian, my grandfather was born in Indonesia but became a doctor and spent his entire adult life in The Netherlands (Haarlem). I myself "feel Dutch" but am in fact born and raised in Indonesia. I spoke Bahasa before I spoke Dutch. I did live in The Netherlands in my early 20s and served in the Dutch Army for seven years, but eventually ended up emigrating to New Zealand. So what should I call myself? A Dutch Indonesian Kiwi Australian who maybe has reached the stage where where I should have no right to call myself anything? I lived in other countries as well, like Brunei/Sarawak, Singapore, Philippines, Fiji, back in Indonesia, separate stints in both Australia and New Zealand,, back in The Netherlands in the early 90s, etcetera etcetera. This whole nationality thing isn't as straightforward as it looks. Ultimately, I have an Australian passport but still "feel Dutch". I speak Dutch, and yes, Holland (as I still call it) is where my heart is. Not entirely logical, but there you have it. What can I do?
@@leonaessens4399 wow that’s a lot! I’m surprised you don’t have an identity crisis! 😅 But I agree; maybe I should not try to find who I am but instead just ‘be’. Live life, enjoy, continue exploring the world and maybe when I’m 80 I can say who I was in the end 🤭
@@igrien the problem of trying to find out who you are is that you only ever work with the past. You'll lose the present and the future. Also I'd say you're probably way more Dutch than Chinese. Unless you actively work with the whole chinese "face" cultural heritage. I bet you are more used to how we Dutch are more direct. That we prefer people to honestly admit mistakes and faults instead of always trying to sell a good image. Sure both the Dutch and the Chinese can be rude. The Dutch because they refuse to just back down on anything simply because of the emotions or culture of the other. Not because of sheer disrespect. But because they don't feel a need to alter their behavior to something they disagree with. Whereas with the chinese I always feel like they do it more to act "superior" which is tied into the face shtick again. So they tend to be way more angry and aggressive when I kick down their nonsense without respecting hierarchy, while a Dutch person might just get pissed off because I rub him the wrong way. There will be no extra idea of a "bad image" weighing them down that I have to deal with. So I'd say I prefer you to be Dutch in behavior then lmao. But you do you. As long as you don't harm anyone why should anyone intervene? I do know something about feeling alienated from groups. But in my case it is Autism. Like I can speak with people, interact with them. But somehow deeper understanding seems very elusive. Which makes it really hard to figure out the way to fit in the whole of it. And it kind of feels like unless I figure that out, the rest of my life I will be forced to deal with the friction I will have trying to deal with the whole while not fitting the space given. So yeah I can imagine the bs stress of identity crisis. Hope you'll figure out your answer.
@@lakkakka aw thank you for your elaborate comment, I appreciate it! I do recognize the ‘face’ schtick in myself so that’s probably a cultural or generational trauma thing I still need to process. But other times I can also be direct and open about things, which to my mother and family makes me more Dutch in their eyes. I guess it’s never good. I don’t know what it’s like to be autistic but I can imagine it’s hard feeling like you don’t belong. I wish the world was more accepting of different type of people. Unfortunately we live in a world where being extravert and loud is rewarded and accepted more. I hope you will find your way in the world and navigate the you the world wants you to be and the you you are 🫶🫶
It doesn't really matter as long as you feel happy about yourself. Nationality should be out of the question. Don't ask this question again. Just listen to your heart how you will feel happy.
I grew up Dutch in Canada it was like the opposite to you. I’m Canadian and Dutch but you’re actually more Dutch than me because you grew up there . Even though I had the Dutch influence at home (stereotypes that were true) lol. Also I had a lot of Asian influences because of the Asian community in my city.
@@hirsch4155 That’s interesting! I’ve never met a Dutch person who grew up in another country before! Do you come here often and how does it feel when you’re here?
Mijn opa kwam in de jaren 50 naar Nederland vanuit Sicilië en moest ook voor alles aanpassen. Hij kon op zijn minst 5 talen maar niet Nederlands. Dat kon hij nog steeds niet toen hij oud was. Mijn oma is Nederlands (ook een mengsel van Indisch, Brits, Duits and Joods) en die heeft hem veel geleerd. Mijn vader is Nederlands met een beetje duits, dus ben ik maar 25% Siciliaans waarvan dat ook gemengd is tussen allemaal volkeren (we komen uit Chiusa Sclafani een door noormannen gestichte dorp) en toch hoe ik me opgevoed ben voel ik me meer Siciliaans dan Nederlands. Ik luister meer naar Italiaanse muziek en ik kook veel liever Italiaans, Ik kan ook net zo goed Siciliaans verstaan alhoewel praten wat moeilijker is. Ik doe well mee met dat cultuurtje van jullie maar dat Nederlandse identiteit is gewoon niet zo sterk bij mij.
You aren't half anything. You are fully both. You can be fully Dutch and you can be fully Chinese. I'm Dutch and Chindo and can be fully 3 different ethnicities if i want to.
Think about it the other way, would chinese people consider a blonde, white girl born in China to be chinese? I don't think so. I guess you have to accept that sentiment, but look at the positives, you can communicate with both worlds and find a way to fit in.
@@igrien Ik ben meerdere malen in China geweest en ben zo in de greep van de cultuur, de mensen, de taal, en heb de taal zelfs geleerd. China voelt als thuis voor mij altijd als ik er ben. Chinese (en Taiwanese) vrienden zeggen altijd 'you're more Chinese than I am" hahah. Wie weet is het een interessante invalshoek van je boek! Ik sta altijd open voor koffie haha. Anyhow, Ik kan me verder overigens alleen maar voorstellen hoe het is met een Chinees / Nederlandse achtergrond op te groeien in Nederland. Ben dan ook heel nieuwsgierig naar het boek!
I think everybody should become like a chinese when living in china, everyone should become dutch when living in the netherlands. Otherwise you always remain just a guest and not a someone who lives here.
@@igrien It is not hard. Look how people live, talk and behave and then copy that. People are really good at that if they want to AND if they respect the culture.
@@Noutelus So all people are the same in the Netherlands? That's too simple. There are Dutch people who speak English nowadays, especially in Amsterdam. And similarly there are Chinese people speaking more Dutch but they are still treated differently. So it's not that simple.
@@igrien If you respect a country and want to live there then you should start to live like how the majority lives. If i somehow find myself living in china then i will try to do anything to become as much chinese as possible, that is what good people who appreciate and respect the host culture would do.
@ again, it’s not that easy. You think Chinese people haven’t tried here? And yet we will always be seen as different. I’m just saying, even if people have tried, sometimes you will still be treated as different.
This is a really sensitive one one !! I personally dont like this ultra nationalistic kind of mind state, how ever embracing ur culture language & being just yourself gives u abit of peace 🕊️
Your point about the cultural appropriation and whitewashing of Tea Kee is that it not the same as the street names in the area of the streets in Zeedijk changing in chinese sign. Edit: I'm for change and nothing is as changeable as traditions, if everything stays the same it's only going backwards. I don't quite understand what's wrong with them specifying ingredients. On the other hand, I still think Starbucks and bubble tea are 'niet te hachelen' and way too sweet
@@NaamVerzinnen Thanks for your comment! I believe in change too in order to innovate and move on in time. I think the street signs in Chinese are more a sign of respect to the community in that area. The regular Dutch street signs are still up. And regarding the whitewashing of bubble tea, I believe the case of the owners presenting their Bobba brand as ‘clean’ and ‘transparent’ is actually saying that the original bubble tea is the opposite. And then using it to further themselves financially, without an ounce of respect for the culture, that’s cultural appropriation.
@@igrien Bubble tea is something from Taiwan I think, not from China. I personally see it as marketing, and not an attack on. I don't think you should look for a conspiracy in it. We certainly have to take everyone into account, but we are now too much on our toes because everything affects someone personally. Because that is the problem in today's society and maybe I contribute to it too. Too many opinions on social media that are accepted as true and no more common sense. (and I shared an opinion of mine on socials again 🤔). However, I found it informative and your mother is baddass
@@NaamVerzinnen I never said it’s from China. I think most Asians identify it as being part of the Asian culture. I grew up drinking boba when it wasn’t ‘hip’ yet. Society has become fragile on some points, I do agree with that. But myself, as a Dutch born Chinese, I have felt inferior growing up in a ‘white world’, with enough people around me making fun of how I eat, talk or look all my life. But now that things have become ‘hip’, and money is to be made off of it, I just find it disrespectful the way they handled it. I have seen countless boba shops with non Taiwanese owners that were respectful and honoring the culture. This just was not it. Mom is definitely badass. Gave me a tough shield because of it. But I also realize that it buried some of the pains I have felt throughout life whenever I was made to feel inferior because of my ethnicity. Thank you for having a polite discussion with me 🙏 Topics like this are just hard and often carry many emotions. Understanding eachother is the only way forward.
is your father dutch or Chinese because your title is quite vague are you dutch Chinese or Chinese Chinese living in the Netherlands and did you not have a dutch father ??? just say your Chinese father ditch your Chinese mother
You don't make the impression that you are either dutch or chinese. You are talking with a fluent american- english accent. So what has this to do with dutch or chinese ?
Of course you could never be Dutch because it's an ethnic identity. I don't think anyone can really become Dutch not even Flemish people and Boer people from Africa could truly become Dutch but their children would be, unlike you. Though I do suppose that the Chinese diaspora is treated considerably better and generally liked more then Moroccans and Turks or the other groups from North Africa the middle east or SubSaharan Africa aside from the dutch decedents around the cape.
If by treated better you mean people see us as 'the model minority', than yes. But there are enough people who still have lots of prejudices about my Chinese roots, make jokes about my culture, where they wouldn't dare to do it with other minorities, and still treat me as inferior. I guess each minority group in the Netherlands has their own problems.
Wat bedoel je precies met 'achter hen hebben'? Ik heb niemand achter mij. En ik vind juist dat andere etnische minderheden minder 'aangepakt' worden door Nederlanders dan Chinezen. Ik krijg nog altijd naar mijn hoofd geslingerd 'of ik thuis hond eet' of 'waarom eet men wespen in China'. En dat zie ik weer minder snel bij andere minderheden.
@@igrien ik weet niet precies waar je het over hebt. Was die reactie voor mij of had iemand anders een reactie hier onder achter gelaten die verborgen is? Maar goed ik vind het niet zulke kwalijke opmerkingen. In China eten ze immers nog steeds hond. Dan doet niet iedereen dit maar er zijn restaurants voor door het hele land. Dat is iets waar westerlingen vaak heel moeilijk over doen maar ik vind het eigenlijk een beetje overdreven. Maar wat zijn je verwachtingen eigenlijk. Het is niet alsof wij Europeanen ons in China kunnen intergrwted daarvoor zijn nog veel veel meer barrières. Beide sociale en op het wettelijke vlak. De enkele Europeanen die in China geboren zijn worden ook nooit gezien als Chinees dit kan andersom natuurlijk net zo zeer niet.
Maar wat als je ouders de taal niet goed beheersen? Dan ben je niet Nederlands? Mijn paspoort zegt namelijk dat ik wel Nederlands ben. Maar met mijn moeder praat ik Chinees.
@@igrien Waarom praat jouw moeder nog altijd geen Nederlands? Je zei dat ze hier geboren zijn toch? Wanner ik zou emigreren naar China zou ik echt wel mijn best om zo snel mogelijk op zijn minst mandarijn te leren. Wij Nederlanders zijn altijd degene die zich aanpassen voor mensen die een andere taal spreken. Duitsers, Fransen, en voor de rest van de wereld spreken we ook nog Engels. Als je hier al zo lang leeft en nog de taal niet beheerst, ben je dan wel oprecht geinteressert in het land waar je woont of zocht je een plek om Chinees te zijn onder betere leefomstandigheden?
@ mijn moeder is hier niet geboren. Ze is hier gekomen in de jaren 70-80. Ze spreekt wel Nederlands; beter dan de gemiddelde Chinees in haar kring. Maar uiteraard nog wel beperkt. Vandaar dat we thuis toch Chinees spreken; wel met een mix van Nederlandse woorden omdat ik gebrekkig Chinees spreek 🤭
@ en eens hoor, zou ik ook doen als ik zou emigreren. Maar van wat ik heb gehoord van de eerste generatie Chinezen, was het een moeilijke tijd. Taalcursussen waren niet gratis en vaak hadden ze het geld niet en de tijd hier. Lonen waren lager voor Chinezen dus ze konden niet anders dan zelf iets starten en daar 80u per week staan. En het was in die tijd nog geen vereiste.
@@igrien Oh ik dacht ze hier geboren was. Heel erg bedankt voor je verklaring. Ik snap het wel dat je als 'buitenstaander' een kring hebt met 'soortgenoten' die ook jouw cultuur en taal delen.
A Dutch country? Like their are multiple dutch countries? 😂. Voor mij als je hier geboren bent en je actief deel neemt aan de maatschappij ben je een Nederlandse van Chinese komaf (dutch chinese). In mijn ogen zou het een ander geval zijn wanneer je (zoals kinderen van sommige nieuwkomers) je puur houdt aan eigen taal, cultuur en wenst niet volledig deel te nemen aan de maatschappij buiten een gemeenschap met gelijke komaf. En diep respect voor wat je moeder heeft gedaan 👍👏
@@koenvandam1281 eens. En ik voel me zowel Nederlands als Chinees. Maar daardoor ook niet helemaal Nederlands en niet helemaal Chinees op de een of andere manier 😅 Maar trots op beide delen van mijn identiteit ✌️
As an Dutch “ethnic European” in the Netherlands I never ask a Dutch person who “has the looks from another continent” about “where do you come from”… I just want to get to know the person as a person, not “why someone looks differently from me”. It’s up to anyone themselves to reveal their identity, whether it’s cultural, gender or looks. The world today is mixed and it’s a wealth to get to know people who are different from yourself. Evolutionary the most diverse population will be the strongest to stand the future.
Oke, een jaar of wat geleden. Ik loop met mijn twee uit China geadopteerde dochters in Chinatown. Ze waren nog jong toen. Mijn oudste dochter ziet een Chinese man en zegt : hee, een Chinees!. Even later. Hee, nog een Chinees. En nog één, en nog één.....
Jaren later is ze weer in Chinatown. Ze ergert zich en zegt: In elke Chinese winkel praten ze Chinees en ze denken dat ik het ook versta. In onvervalst plat Amsterdams zegt ze tegen me: Pap, ben ik eigenlijk nog wel Chinees? Volgens mij lijk ik uiterlijk ook niet op een Chinees.......
2013 rootsreis naar China. Ze zegt: Pap al die Chinezen zien gewoon aan me dat ik niet van hier ben. Mijn kleding of zoiets. Ze merken het, maar ze spreken me wel aan in de winkels. Ze laat een kaartje zien dat ze geen Chinees spreekt omdat ze Nederlandse is. De Chinezen vinden het maar raar.
2016 op bezoek bij haar biologische familie in Xiamen. Permanent een tolk voor het dialect van daar erbij. Zelfs haar biologische zussen zijn wat verbaasd dat ze geen Chinees spreekt. Ze maakt met haar biologische moeder en twee zussen dumplings. Ze zegt: Goh, ik voel me nu opeens een beetje Chinees :-)
2024 ze is nu 26 jaar. Ex-topsporter, contortioniste, acrobate, lifistyle coach, pilates docente in een relatie met een militair veteraan. Ze geniet van het leven en noemt zichzelf een banaan. Geel van buiten, wit van binnen :-)
En je moest eens weten hoeveel ik van mijn beide dochters houd!
Mooi om te lezen.
Ik voelde me zelf ook altijd een 'banaan' omdat ik de Chinese taal beperkt beheerste. In China zagen en hoorden ze aan mij dat ik niet 'een van hun' was. En in Nederland hetzelfde. Daardoor voelde ik mij altijd 'anders' omdat ik mij nergens echt thuis voelde.
Tegenwoordig zie ik het juist als een rijkdom dat ik met zo veel verschillende culturen / talen ben opgegroeid!
Mooi verhaal zoals het hoort te zijn, koester je dochters zoals ze u koesteren
Een banaan 😂 dat is wel komisch
Waarom uit China adopteren en niet uit Nederland. En als je hen uit China adopteert, waarom hen geen Chinees laten leren en zelf ook een beetje je best om de taal te leren en je te verdiepen in de Chinese cultuur.
@@rdd4356 Toentertijd kon er niet uit Nederland geadopteerd worden.
Beide dochters hebben op Chinese taalles gezeten en wij als ouders ook. Alleen als je het nooit spreekt krijg je het echt niet goed onder de knie.
Voor mijn oudste dochter kwam er bij dat ze aan topsport deed en dat ging conflicteren met de tijd die ze had. Onze jongste dochter had er gewoon geen zin meer in.
En je moest eens weten hoeveel video's en boeken we over China gezien en gelezen hebben.
As a Dutch man married for almost 20 years to a chinese born chinese wife, I know it is not easy, be proud of yourself
Thank you for this. Really needed it today!
I am third generation Indonesian/Moluccan myself. Both my grandparents came to the Netherlands in the 50s. My parents were born in the Netherlands. However, to this day I still get the question 'where are you from?' I am from the Netherlands, no but where are your parents from? yes, also the Netherlands! Am I irritated by these questions, no. I understand that people including myself think in ethnic frameworks. But in my teenage years I did have an identity crisis, where do I belong? My father's side of the family thought I was Moluccan, my mother's side of the family thought I was Indisch. And to the Dutch I was a foreigner and when I went to Indonesia I was a Dutch person again. But I never really experienced discrimination in the Netherlands, I always felt accepted. Ultimately I feel like a citizen of the world and just try to be a good person.
@@parmentier7457 exactly this 🙏 We’re all citizens of the world 🫶 I relate to so much you describe here. I think in the end our dual cultures have created a third culture which is all our own, uniquely to us individuals 🤗
The people that ask you where your from, are they older Dutch people? I ask because I think the last few generations of Dutch people are more accustomed to seeing more people from different backgrounds and they grew up with them. I'm 52 and really had to think about it, that people like you just might be the second or third generation that was born here and therefore are just as much Dutch as anybody else, and had to alter my way of thinking. And I can totally understand that those questions make you feel like (unintensionally) you're an outsider. But I think that behaviour will die out over time. Acceptance has to come from both sides, and it takes time.
@@operius2385 I agree, it will grow out in time. Even though I was born and raised here, I have certainly felt like an outsider at times. Mostly because of people who will continue to see us as foreigners. When I was younger, that was a hard reality to accept. That no matter how hard I tried, I would never truly feel accepted. But I don’t believe anybody has bad intentions (I hope) and that it’s all just a lack of understanding from both sides.
People do not mean harm in that question. It is a genuine curiosity about you as a person, and instead of fighting that, you should think of it possitively. The fact that people care enough about you to ask and be interested about your herritage is something beautiful no?
@ I think it’s about respectfully asking. That keeps it positive. And I think in the end we all welcome conversations 🙏 Just not when the person is clearly trying to treat us like outsiders.
As an Dutch “ethnic European” in the Netherlands I never ask a Dutch person who “has the looks from another continent” about “where do you come from”… I just want to get to know the person as a person, not “why someone looks differently from me”. It’s up to anyone themselves to reveal their identity, whether it’s cultural, gender or looks. The world today is mixed and it’s a wealth to get to know people who are different from yourself. Evolutionary the most diverse population will be the strongest to stand the future.
I admire that! In the end we should all look past how we look and just treat each other as equal people!
I wouldnt ask it like that, because “where do you come from” seems to assume you’re not Dutch. But if I’m trying to get to know someone I would be interested in knowing about their heritage - and might ask about it. There is in no way any offense intended by that.
Whem diversity becomes divisive then it does not strengthen anything anymore.
The world by far isn't as mixed as you picture. That's just a western thing, and even then it's not that prevalent. Most cultures in the world are pretty homogenous ethnically. And that's fine.
Not sure what to make of the evolutionary comment. Biologically it does seem generally beneficial to mix dna from two humans worlds apart in ethnic group, but a culture can't be solely based around that. And if you were to mix all cultures, you'd ultimately still end up with a homogenous whole as it averages out.
And strongest? No? Why?
You make a great point about national identity sometimes feeling like a club that others can’t join, even though it’s mostly based on where you (and/or your parents) just happened to be born. It can offer a sense of belonging, but it can also fuel an “us versus them” mindset that separates people. In a way, it’s both very real (because it shapes how we see ourselves and each other) and an illusion (because we’re all human, and these boundaries are mostly created by ourselves and the systems around us).
That’s why I really admire people who navigate multiple cultures or move to a completely different environment and still find their own path. It’s not always easy to balance different traditions or languages, but it also opens you up to new ideas about who you can be-beyond just your “official” nationality. It’s a reminder that we don’t have to cling too tightly to one label. We can embrace whichever elements actually help us grow, rather than just what we’ve been told to accept.
Maar even in het Nederlands: ik vind het supermooi hoe jij je eigen weg zoekt in al die culturen. Ga zo door!
Mooi verwoord en helemaal mee eens. Ik zou ook heel graag in de toekomst een tijdje in het buitenland willen wonen, om een keer iets anders mee te maken. Het leven is ook zo kort om alleen 1 land te hebben meegemaakt! En uiteindelijk zijn we meer dan alleen ons nationaliteit of etniciteit van onze ouders. We worden door van alles en nog wat beïnvloed en gevormd.
Dank voor het kijken en de comment!
Wat leuk dat je dit deelt! Dank je voor het inzicht
Dank voor het kijken! Waardeer ik!
Vietnamese American here. Born in the US. I saw and still see racism all the times, from grade school to professional environment. Then some 15 years ago I went to Vietnam for the first time in my life. Let me tell you, it was an eye opener for me to see people who don't discriminate me based on my ethnic. I have since bought a house in Vietnam, and when I retire I will move to Vietnam. Asia is where the activity will be in the next century, the Asian century.
That is kind of weird to say. Activity will be everywhere haha or are you suggesting that China bombs us between that time?
Western society is a racist society.
I understand you totally. I have thought of moving to Asia too in the past. It would be such a relief not to have to deal with racism or discrimination against you!
My Chinese Dutch friend sent me this-I’m a Chinese American living in The Netherlands who grew up in San Francisco’s Chinatown-your story resonates with mine too. Immigrant parents (especially my mom) who came with nothing and gave us everything. And being bicultural. It’s a story that many of us overseas Chinese share too.
And it’s so important to tell these stories of our parents and our culture, so I wish you all the best and good luck!
Well said by Wen.
I've seen many of your videos, nice to meet you! And thanks! I hope we can meet some day!
I am living in Eindhoven since 2009, and we have more and more expats living in this city because of technology companys around. Both of my kids are born here. From time to time, I am also thinking about to how my kids are gonna identify themselves, if they will feel lost simply because they find themselves are not belong to any part of the society. But again, since our neighborhood is so diverse, at this moment, my kids are not feeling any exclusive at all. I think over time, the world will become smaller and smaller and we are all simply the citizens of earth.
I agree and that is my wish; for the world to see everybody as equals, just citizens of the world. Where we live now, there's loads of expats too and I do like the 'worldly' vibe better than where we used to live.
Fabulous Igrien, keep up the great work!
Thank you! Much appreciated!
Excellent.. Proud of you all.
@@nonglouie5106 thank you 🫶
You have the best of both heritage.
I agree, thank you!
In the end, does it really matter how you should feel? Should you feel Chinese? Should you feel Dutch? It really doesn't matter. You can be a little bit of both.
@@therealdutchidiot I guess you’re right, it doesn’t really matter anyway! As long as we’re happy!
@@igrien Exactly! Just be who you are, you're more than enough of a person without worrying about nonsense like "so which nationality do I feel more kinship with?"
Now, to be sure, It's a very real question, but I feel it's very open ended. For me as a Dutch person, I genuinely like Indonesian people more, for example. Does that make me less Dutch? Obviously not. Does that mean I'm prone to dating Dutch girls? Well, not if thereś a South-East Asian girl to date. Mind you, that's not about race or anything, it's about mindset.
Personally as I have been a non native anywhere I lived I don't identify myself with my DNA heritage but as a being and that's very liberating instead of being trapped with labels "I'm this or I'm that" I prefer this is my planet and I am me
I admire that. In the end, we are all just people, and it doesn't matter how we look or where our parents or grandparents are from!
Respect for your mother. She must be a tough cookie.
@@ThirstyTunaTaco she definitely is!
@@igrien She made some REAL sacrifices girlll. Is she still allive and in NL?
@ She did. Everything I have now is because of her.
She is. She is now a very happy grandmother, in love with her grand child. She comes here almost every day to be with our Rosie 🥰🥺🫶
I am a Malaysian second generation Chinese as my father came from China. Now my children are living in Australia, New Zealand and Singapore. I returned to Malaysia with my wife because we have more friends and relatives in Malaysia. Now I only grand children in Australia can only speak English.
Nice to meet you. I love Malaysia! I plan to go again next year with my mother. She still has loads of friends and family there.
Too bad your grandchildren can only speak English. I myself speak little Chinese and fear my daughter will probably speak even less than me! Which is a shame!
The topic starts at 07.12, before that she talks us on a walk through China town and talks about her book project. It’s two videos and topics fumbled together
Thanks for this!
As a dutch born kaaskop, I'd say you may feel you belong to wherever you want to belong. Chinese, dutch, chinese-dutch or dutch-chinese. There are so many chinese in the netherlands that you don't really stand out and in China you may not stand out at all, but depending on yr level of knowledge of the language, people there may also wonder where you are from
Agree!
I am a 66 yo male, born in (then) Djakarta. From an 'Indisch' (mixed Dutch-Indonesian) military background. My parents & their 5 sons came in January 1967 to the Netherlands as it was the last possibility for people of mixed ancestry (remnants of Dutch colonialism) to come. Call it sth of a repatriation. Racism was sth I really endured. I grew up not far from Geuzenveld, in Osdorp. On one occasion was asked by a 'friend' not to enter his house, because his mother hated coloured people. Suffice to say that that was the last time I ever spoke to him. Even later racism was still lurking. But I refused to get defined by these nasty experiences. Other people don't get to determine who I am. Although born in Indonesia, and I am aware of & appreciate my Indonesian culture & background, I am Dutch & feel Dutch. Not because Indonesia is inferior to the Netherlands, but this country shaped me in every which way. The fact that I am gay as the oldest of 5 boys has also a lot with that. Also I know what it means to be a Christian in a country where at least 80% were Muslim. Don't get me wrong, my dear mother was Muslim, so was her father who was a devout. He was the one who told me that Jews, Christians and Muslims were children of Abraham. That we were related & shouldn't fight or hate each other. Problem was that you were still different than the other children.
Here in Amsterdam I feel protected & secure. As a student I lived in England for a while, and I took an Interrail on several occasions. I love Europe, but Amsterdam is the place where I want to be & someday to die. You don't notice you live in a paradise, till you are out of it. Sure the Netherlands has its problems, but somehow or other we managed to talk the problems away & stay in communication.
Last but not least I want to proclaim this to the world:
'Amsterdam, er is geen stad die ook maar aan je tippen kan.'
Thank you for this, I enjoyed reading it
Doesn't matter.
Just being yourself is more important and feeling happy.
Be proud of where you come.
The race that you are is the human race, like every living human being.from.
Thank you for that! That's exactly how it is.
Exactly ! We are all humans no matter what colour or country your from.
Great project and build from love and respect to the Chinese community in Amsterdam and Netherlands. Do believe its worth all time and effort to write history over the past and present✍💪👏
Thanks for your comment! I agree. If we don't do it now, I'm afraid it will be harder to retrieve all information for future generations. So I feel like now is the time!
Your title already says how you feel: A Dutch Chinese is a Chinese. A Chinese Dutch is Dutch.
Or is it the other way around? For some people, Dutch Chinese means you are Dutch.
You know what is a 'bijvoegelijk naamwoord' ? It says something about the word after it.
A brown tree is still a tree. Yes, it's brown tho.
A Dutch Chinese is a Chinese that is Dutch.
Anyway, I'm far from racist and want you to know that everyone is welcome here.
I admire the Chinese respectful culture.
@@TheJoaveck Thanks! I guess it's confusing because in English, the term British or American Chinese seems to be used more often instead of Chinese Brit or American. Me and my friends always argue which is more correct but we never end up agreeing haha!
@@igrien No problem and I hope you don't feel offended by my directness. I really just like to share my perspectives from the other side.
There are conservatives in every country that don't like change. But I think we can only learn from getting to know other cultures.
@ I agree. I think discussions is what gets us further in society in the end and not blaming each other for not being this or that, that’s too easy. So I appreciate your time and thought!
I am born in Canada and served in a military form. Being born in a foreign Country would be quite a struggle. My Parents cold calm out look made my immersion actually very easy. My parents are from Scotland so a bit of a difference.
For my parents it was different. They didn't speak the language here and had to rely on the community to teach them how to survive in the Netherlands. If I wanted to move abroad now, I think it would be much easier because I was raised more 'western'.
I am a Dutch 'native' from Amsterdam, and although many Dutch people are not great fans of modern China (mostly because of the Chinese government with their often anti-western political views) i never heard anyone saying anything bad about (former) Chinese immigrants, or their now Dutch children and grand children. Never ever.
@@JanuzTrance68 With all respect, but just because YOU haven’t heard it, ever, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, ever. I have experienced it unfortunately.
still amazes me how people confuse feelings for facts.....and vice versa.......
@@blindwatchmaker2345 😅🙈
What you said about growing up Chinese in the Netherlands, but not feeling like you belong to.the Chinese group or the Dutch group, resonates with me as an Asian growing up in America. But the part about becoming part of an American-British international culture is really interesting: we, as Asian Americans, helped create a lot of that culture but feel excluded from that culture just the same. We have had to push hard to be represented in many of the films, shows, etc. that comprise that culture, making it truly international.
I agree and wonder why that is. My Moroccan friends here say us Asian don't push hard enough, compared to other ethnic minorities. I don't know whether that's true; perhaps. I do see things changing and I hope my daughter will grow up in a world where we are more represented everywhere!
If you speak English, you are either an American or English, Australian or Canadian or Indian.
or Dutch Chinese
It is perfectly normal to ask a person where they’re from (originally) in my opinion. When I, a Dutch white skinned person, visit to the north, where my brother lives, people ask me where I’m from. They say I sound from the western part of The Netherlands, specifically (around) Amsterdam. Im not offended, although I should be, I don’t wanna be associated with people from Amsterdam, they’re a special bunch. Most people are just curious and interested, and have no harm in mind.
Agree that it doesn't have to be offensive. But when it's a question you've been asked your whole life, even though I write and speak just as good as any other Dutch, it can make you feel like you don't belong. I'm sure most people mean no harm, but indirectly, a question like that can be like I'm not Dutch, even though I was born here and feel more at home here than, for instance, in China, where I know almost nothing. It's a difficult thing to explain but I hope you understand!
Zou het een idee zijn om deze video ook gewoon in het Nederlands uit te brengen? As it is now this video resembles a video of an expat living for a few years in the Netherlands.
Goed idee! Ik ben nog aan het kijken hoe ik sommige thema's in het Nederlands wil doen en andere thema's in het Engels. Deze video had inderdaad ook in het Nederlands gekund!
@@igrienjouw engels is echt vloeiend. Geen NL of Chineed accent. Spreek je Manderijns en/of Cantonees? Mijn vrouw zou je 1e generatie (HK) chinees kunnen noemen. Alhoewel ze veeel te hard werkt heeft ze niet de 'hard ship' gekend zoals jouw moeder aangezien ze voor mij naar NL is verhuisd.. 😅 Haar conversational-Nederlands is prima... Toch praten we thuis gewoon engels. Misschien doe jij dat ook. Ik g je YT kanaal iig volgen.,, ❤
@ Ik spreek zelf Mandarijns en Hokkien en versta Cantonees omdat mijn man Cantonees is. Thuis spreken we nu Engels voor ons dochtertje. Dank voor het volgen! 🙏🙏
Does it matter? As far as I am concerned your nationality isn't a matter of birth. Your nationality is where your heart is. My greatgrandmother was Indonesian, my grandfather was born in Indonesia but became a doctor and spent his entire adult life in The Netherlands (Haarlem). I myself "feel Dutch" but am in fact born and raised in Indonesia. I spoke Bahasa before I spoke Dutch. I did live in The Netherlands in my early 20s and served in the Dutch Army for seven years, but eventually ended up emigrating to New Zealand. So what should I call myself? A Dutch Indonesian Kiwi Australian who maybe has reached the stage where where I should have no right to call myself anything? I lived in other countries as well, like Brunei/Sarawak, Singapore, Philippines, Fiji, back in Indonesia, separate stints in both Australia and New Zealand,, back in The Netherlands in the early 90s, etcetera etcetera. This whole nationality thing isn't as straightforward as it looks. Ultimately, I have an Australian passport but still "feel Dutch". I speak Dutch, and yes, Holland (as I still call it) is where my heart is. Not entirely logical, but there you have it. What can I do?
@@leonaessens4399 wow that’s a lot! I’m surprised you don’t have an identity crisis! 😅 But I agree; maybe I should not try to find who I am but instead just ‘be’. Live life, enjoy, continue exploring the world and maybe when I’m 80 I can say who I was in the end 🤭
@@igrien the problem of trying to find out who you are is that you only ever work with the past. You'll lose the present and the future. Also I'd say you're probably way more Dutch than Chinese. Unless you actively work with the whole chinese "face" cultural heritage. I bet you are more used to how we Dutch are more direct. That we prefer people to honestly admit mistakes and faults instead of always trying to sell a good image.
Sure both the Dutch and the Chinese can be rude. The Dutch because they refuse to just back down on anything simply because of the emotions or culture of the other. Not because of sheer disrespect. But because they don't feel a need to alter their behavior to something they disagree with. Whereas with the chinese I always feel like they do it more to act "superior" which is tied into the face shtick again. So they tend to be way more angry and aggressive when I kick down their nonsense without respecting hierarchy, while a Dutch person might just get pissed off because I rub him the wrong way. There will be no extra idea of a "bad image" weighing them down that I have to deal with. So I'd say I prefer you to be Dutch in behavior then lmao. But you do you. As long as you don't harm anyone why should anyone intervene?
I do know something about feeling alienated from groups. But in my case it is Autism. Like I can speak with people, interact with them. But somehow deeper understanding seems very elusive. Which makes it really hard to figure out the way to fit in the whole of it. And it kind of feels like unless I figure that out, the rest of my life I will be forced to deal with the friction I will have trying to deal with the whole while not fitting the space given. So yeah I can imagine the bs stress of identity crisis. Hope you'll figure out your answer.
@@lakkakka aw thank you for your elaborate comment, I appreciate it! I do recognize the ‘face’ schtick in myself so that’s probably a cultural or generational trauma thing I still need to process. But other times I can also be direct and open about things, which to my mother and family makes me more Dutch in their eyes. I guess it’s never good.
I don’t know what it’s like to be autistic but I can imagine it’s hard feeling like you don’t belong. I wish the world was more accepting of different type of people. Unfortunately we live in a world where being extravert and loud is rewarded and accepted more. I hope you will find your way in the world and navigate the you the world wants you to be and the you you are 🫶🫶
It doesn't really matter as long as you feel happy about yourself. Nationality should be out of the question. Don't ask this question again. Just listen to your heart how you will feel happy.
@@chansson1000 Thanks for the advice! That’s a good one! 👍
>should I feel more chinese or dutch?
>next slide: goes to the asian supermarket
weeell, how do I tell you.
Haha, I hadn't even thought of that!
In the Netherlands it's called a "toko"...
@@collectioneur thanks!
i go to a asian supermarket .. does that mean i am Chinese too ?
I'm not asian but I went to asian supermarket a few times what does that make me?
I grew up Dutch in Canada it was like the opposite to you. I’m Canadian and Dutch but you’re actually more Dutch than me because you grew up there . Even though I had the Dutch influence at home (stereotypes that were true) lol.
Also I had a lot of Asian influences because of the Asian community in my city.
@@hirsch4155 That’s interesting! I’ve never met a Dutch person who grew up in another country before! Do you come here often and how does it feel when you’re here?
Mijn opa kwam in de jaren 50 naar Nederland vanuit Sicilië en moest ook voor alles aanpassen. Hij kon op zijn minst 5 talen maar niet Nederlands. Dat kon hij nog steeds niet toen hij oud was. Mijn oma is Nederlands (ook een mengsel van Indisch, Brits, Duits and Joods) en die heeft hem veel geleerd. Mijn vader is Nederlands met een beetje duits, dus ben ik maar 25% Siciliaans waarvan dat ook gemengd is tussen allemaal volkeren (we komen uit Chiusa Sclafani een door noormannen gestichte dorp) en toch hoe ik me opgevoed ben voel ik me meer Siciliaans dan Nederlands. Ik luister meer naar Italiaanse muziek en ik kook veel liever Italiaans, Ik kan ook net zo goed Siciliaans verstaan alhoewel praten wat moeilijker is. Ik doe well mee met dat cultuurtje van jullie maar dat Nederlandse identiteit is gewoon niet zo sterk bij mij.
Mooi om zo veel verschillende verhalen te lezen, vanuit verschillende hoeken van de wereld!
Jij bent gewoon een mooie Nederlandse meid met chinese roots.
@@corneliusantonius3108 dank ☺️!
You aren't half anything. You are fully both. You can be fully Dutch and you can be fully Chinese. I'm Dutch and Chindo and can be fully 3 different ethnicities if i want to.
I like your perspective on this. I do feel I’m both fully but at the same time none but perhaps somewhere in between!
Dankje wel
China heroïne
Have you already started your book about the Chinese who came to the Netherlands?
No we are still in the research and crowdfunding phase. We will be starting our interviews in February! If you know anyone, let me know!
Think about it the other way, would chinese people consider a blonde, white girl born in China to be chinese? I don't think so. I guess you have to accept that sentiment, but look at the positives, you can communicate with both worlds and find a way to fit in.
I think they could and I have seen it. But agree that it's a pro to be able to communicate with both worlds!
Voel ik me meer Nederlands of Chinees loopt vervolgens een Aziatisch toko binnen
Punt is gemaakt dat was een snelle video dankjewel 😂
Een beetje onhandig van mij, die edit!
Heerlijk winkelen bij Oriental in Rijswijk zie ik
Nee dit was Oriental Amsterdam!
@igrien maar even lekker ;-)
You also speak English like a native. How did that happen?
Thank you
sambal bij?
ik kijk uit naar het boek!
Dank! Ik zal updates posten!
@@igrien Ik ben meerdere malen in China geweest en ben zo in de greep van de cultuur, de mensen, de taal, en heb de taal zelfs geleerd. China voelt als thuis voor mij altijd als ik er ben. Chinese (en Taiwanese) vrienden zeggen altijd 'you're more Chinese than I am" hahah. Wie weet is het een interessante invalshoek van je boek! Ik sta altijd open voor koffie haha. Anyhow, Ik kan me verder overigens alleen maar voorstellen hoe het is met een Chinees / Nederlandse achtergrond op te groeien in Nederland. Ben dan ook heel nieuwsgierig naar het boek!
I think everybody should become like a chinese when living in china, everyone should become dutch when living in the netherlands. Otherwise you always remain just a guest and not a someone who lives here.
But what exactly is being Chinese or Dutch about? It's not one shape or form, is it? That's what makes it hard!
@@igrien It is not hard. Look how people live, talk and behave and then copy that. People are really good at that if they want to AND if they respect the culture.
@@Noutelus So all people are the same in the Netherlands? That's too simple. There are Dutch people who speak English nowadays, especially in Amsterdam. And similarly there are Chinese people speaking more Dutch but they are still treated differently. So it's not that simple.
@@igrien If you respect a country and want to live there then you should start to live like how the majority lives. If i somehow find myself living in china then i will try to do anything to become as much chinese as possible, that is what good people who appreciate and respect the host culture would do.
@ again, it’s not that easy. You think Chinese people haven’t tried here? And yet we will always be seen as different. I’m just saying, even if people have tried, sometimes you will still be treated as different.
OMG Dutch subtitles appear so much longer... ;-)
I'm so sorry!!
This is a really sensitive one one !!
I personally dont like this ultra nationalistic kind of mind state, how ever embracing ur culture language & being just yourself gives u abit of peace 🕊️
Agree!
Your point about the cultural appropriation and whitewashing of Tea Kee is that it not the same as the street names in the area of the streets in Zeedijk changing in chinese sign.
Edit: I'm for change and nothing is as changeable as traditions, if everything stays the same it's only going backwards. I don't quite understand what's wrong with them specifying ingredients. On the other hand, I still think Starbucks and bubble tea are 'niet te hachelen' and way too sweet
@@NaamVerzinnen Thanks for your comment! I believe in change too in order to innovate and move on in time. I think the street signs in Chinese are more a sign of respect to the community in that area. The regular Dutch street signs are still up.
And regarding the whitewashing of bubble tea, I believe the case of the owners presenting their Bobba brand as ‘clean’ and ‘transparent’ is actually saying that the original bubble tea is the opposite. And then using it to further themselves financially, without an ounce of respect for the culture, that’s cultural appropriation.
@@igrien Bubble tea is something from Taiwan I think, not from China. I personally see it as marketing, and not an attack on. I don't think you should look for a conspiracy in it. We certainly have to take everyone into account, but we are now too much on our toes because everything affects someone personally. Because that is the problem in today's society and maybe I contribute to it too. Too many opinions on social media that are accepted as true and no more common sense. (and I shared an opinion of mine on socials again 🤔).
However, I found it informative and your mother is baddass
@@NaamVerzinnen I never said it’s from China. I think most Asians identify it as being part of the Asian culture. I grew up drinking boba when it wasn’t ‘hip’ yet. Society has become fragile on some points, I do agree with that. But myself, as a Dutch born Chinese, I have felt inferior growing up in a ‘white world’, with enough people around me making fun of how I eat, talk or look all my life. But now that things have become ‘hip’, and money is to be made off of it, I just find it disrespectful the way they handled it. I have seen countless boba shops with non Taiwanese owners that were respectful and honoring the culture. This just was not it.
Mom is definitely badass. Gave me a tough shield because of it. But I also realize that it buried some of the pains I have felt throughout life whenever I was made to feel inferior because of my ethnicity.
Thank you for having a polite discussion with me 🙏 Topics like this are just hard and often carry many emotions. Understanding eachother is the only way forward.
Very annoying: Subtitles i can't get rid of in the same language as spoken...
I'm sorry! Some people like it because they turn off the sound..
is your father dutch or Chinese because your title is quite vague are you dutch Chinese or Chinese Chinese living in the Netherlands and did you not have a dutch father ???
just say your Chinese father ditch your Chinese mother
My father was Chinese too but I was born in the Netherlands so that makes me Dutch.
What do the in chinatown streetnames translate to?
Is it word for word translation or is it just phonetically?
@@regntonne I believe they are literal translations!
You don't make the impression that you are either dutch or chinese. You are talking with a fluent american- english accent. So what has this to do with dutch or chinese ?
I should have done this video in Dutch or Chinese then!
You are Malaysian !... You will fit in more in Malaysia
Haha, I love Malaysia so I'd love it! Maybe in the future!
I identify as human
That's beautiful; you should!
Waar is die supermarkt
@@armandovanhaaren9823 Amazing Oriental in Amsterdam
Where is rhe link to the crowd fund?
Helemaal vergeten! www.voordekunst.nl/projecten/17870-de-onbekende-verhalen-van-chinatown
Well, that's easy, how tall are your Children? :) Ah you are Dutch :) And Chinese :)
We're not tall so I guess I'm Chinese
Of course you could never be Dutch because it's an ethnic identity.
I don't think anyone can really become Dutch not even Flemish people and Boer people from Africa could truly become Dutch but their children would be, unlike you.
Though I do suppose that the Chinese diaspora is treated considerably better and generally liked more then Moroccans and Turks or the other groups from North Africa the middle east or SubSaharan Africa aside from the dutch decedents around the cape.
If by treated better you mean people see us as 'the model minority', than yes. But there are enough people who still have lots of prejudices about my Chinese roots, make jokes about my culture, where they wouldn't dare to do it with other minorities, and still treat me as inferior. I guess each minority group in the Netherlands has their own problems.
@@igrien Yeah like that
Omdat Chinezen in Nederland, een groot machtig land als China achter hen hebben. Durven Nederlanders hen niet aan te pakken.
Wat bedoel je precies met 'achter hen hebben'? Ik heb niemand achter mij. En ik vind juist dat andere etnische minderheden minder 'aangepakt' worden door Nederlanders dan Chinezen. Ik krijg nog altijd naar mijn hoofd geslingerd 'of ik thuis hond eet' of 'waarom eet men wespen in China'. En dat zie ik weer minder snel bij andere minderheden.
@@igrien ik weet niet precies waar je het over hebt. Was die reactie voor mij of had iemand anders een reactie hier onder achter gelaten die verborgen is? Maar goed ik vind het niet zulke kwalijke opmerkingen. In China eten ze immers nog steeds hond. Dan doet niet iedereen dit maar er zijn restaurants voor door het hele land. Dat is iets waar westerlingen vaak heel moeilijk over doen maar ik vind het eigenlijk een beetje overdreven. Maar wat zijn je verwachtingen eigenlijk. Het is niet alsof wij Europeanen ons in China kunnen intergrwted daarvoor zijn nog veel veel meer barrières. Beide sociale en op het wettelijke vlak. De enkele Europeanen die in China geboren zijn worden ook nooit gezien als Chinees dit kan andersom natuurlijk net zo zeer niet.
Je bent pas een Nederlander als je thuis ook Nederlands praat. Punt. Anders ben je net een toerist.
Maar wat als je ouders de taal niet goed beheersen? Dan ben je niet Nederlands? Mijn paspoort zegt namelijk dat ik wel Nederlands ben. Maar met mijn moeder praat ik Chinees.
@@igrien Waarom praat jouw moeder nog altijd geen Nederlands? Je zei dat ze hier geboren zijn toch?
Wanner ik zou emigreren naar China zou ik echt wel mijn best om zo snel mogelijk op zijn minst mandarijn te leren.
Wij Nederlanders zijn altijd degene die zich aanpassen voor mensen die een andere taal spreken.
Duitsers, Fransen, en voor de rest van de wereld spreken we ook nog Engels.
Als je hier al zo lang leeft en nog de taal niet beheerst, ben je dan wel oprecht geinteressert in het land waar je woont of zocht je een plek om Chinees te zijn onder betere leefomstandigheden?
@ mijn moeder is hier niet geboren. Ze is hier gekomen in de jaren 70-80. Ze spreekt wel Nederlands; beter dan de gemiddelde Chinees in haar kring. Maar uiteraard nog wel beperkt. Vandaar dat we thuis toch Chinees spreken; wel met een mix van Nederlandse woorden omdat ik gebrekkig Chinees spreek 🤭
@ en eens hoor, zou ik ook doen als ik zou emigreren. Maar van wat ik heb gehoord van de eerste generatie Chinezen, was het een moeilijke tijd. Taalcursussen waren niet gratis en vaak hadden ze het geld niet en de tijd hier. Lonen waren lager voor Chinezen dus ze konden niet anders dan zelf iets starten en daar 80u per week staan. En het was in die tijd nog geen vereiste.
@@igrien Oh ik dacht ze hier geboren was. Heel erg bedankt voor je verklaring.
Ik snap het wel dat je als 'buitenstaander' een kring hebt met 'soortgenoten' die ook jouw cultuur en taal delen.
Your not Dutch Chinese. Your Chinese living in a Dutch country that's it.
Isn't that a Dutch Chinese? Or is it Chinese Dutch hehe!
A Dutch country? Like their are multiple dutch countries? 😂.
Voor mij als je hier geboren bent en je actief deel neemt aan de maatschappij ben je een Nederlandse van Chinese komaf (dutch chinese).
In mijn ogen zou het een ander geval zijn wanneer je (zoals kinderen van sommige nieuwkomers) je puur houdt aan eigen taal, cultuur en wenst niet volledig deel te nemen aan de maatschappij buiten een gemeenschap met gelijke komaf.
En diep respect voor wat je moeder heeft gedaan 👍👏
@@koenvandam1281 I concur. 👏👏👏👍👍
@@koenvandam1281 eens. En ik voel me zowel Nederlands als Chinees. Maar daardoor ook niet helemaal Nederlands en niet helemaal Chinees op de een of andere manier 😅 Maar trots op beide delen van mijn identiteit ✌️
@@MasterWingman 🙌
As an Dutch “ethnic European” in the Netherlands I never ask a Dutch person who “has the looks from another continent” about “where do you come from”… I just want to get to know the person as a person, not “why someone looks differently from me”. It’s up to anyone themselves to reveal their identity, whether it’s cultural, gender or looks. The world today is mixed and it’s a wealth to get to know people who are different from yourself. Evolutionary the most diverse population will be the strongest to stand the future.
I admire that. We should in the end look past our looks in society!