Note: Getting a free fast move when throwing on alignment is the intended behaviour. Fast move denials are unintended. Second note: Throwing on alignment is a high level strategy when you will win CMP, and you know the opponent will throw on that turn. Third note: Great video!
@@sadiemixer8744 It used to happen consitently until Niantic dropped an update that was aimed to fix an exploit. The exploit was a program that could speed up the game, making your charge attack animation finish quicker, and allow you to get a couple of free fast attacks before your opponent could move again.
I agree that same turn attack denial is no longer consistent. Say 2 turn vs 2 turn. However, some opponent can still not let a single move leak through in a mirror match up in my observation. How???
Fast move alignment would actually be a really great and incredibly skill-testing mechanic IF it worked consistently. Since it doesn't, it ends up being an absolutely putrid mechanic that very often decides matches based on luck/ping.
I think the question is the "consistency" of it though. Ping/Lag is something we'll never be able to control, but ultimately piloting does very much contribute to wins. If I have an opponent using Confusion and I'm throwing Dragon Breath, you can bet I'm loading up as much as possible on their final animation; likewise, I know not to try to throw right at the alignment point if I can avoid it, to prevent giving up a bunch of unnecessary energy. Ultimately I think it can be used as a metric to measure skill, is my point.
This video is the only one where I have truely understood about charge move denial. Your explanation is very simple and easy to understand. Thank u so much.
Case can be made for example with 2 against 4 turn moves. You can risk your charge moves on alignment. It's 50:50 chance of enemy getting 4 turns of energy, but if you do it in the middle, there is 100% chance of them getting 2 turns of energy. So basically, if you have very good internet connection and can make it even 51:49 chance, it could be worth it :D But of course it depends on the situation. If you are in the losing position and this can save your game, go for it. If you win by playing it safe, do it in the middle.
Explaining this musically is the first time it’s actually seemed accessible to me. Counting these as 16th, 8th, quarter notes, etc is gonna make it so much simpler on my brain and also much more fun!
It's a bit of an advanced strategy but I think it is worthwhile to use your charge move on alignment if you expect them to throw a charge move on that same turn, especially if you know you will win cmp and then they get no free turns at all.
Are you able to count your fast moves and opponent's at the same time? I mean the biggest challenge for me to implement this technique would be this because I would be lost. :D So basically I need to learn duration of each or at least most common fast moves, then their energy gain and energy cost of charge moves. I already know at least which charge moves most of the pokemon have. Then I should learn to count my fast moves to be able to properly time my charge moves and at the same time count fast moves of my opponent to know when they will have specific charge move. That's tough, I mean I really admire you guys that you are able to learn it and properly use in your games. I would like to get better at pvp but this seems pretty impossible for me to learn.
I've always thought this made so much more sense. "Fast move denial" is extremely inconsistent. It's basically not even a technique when it works just as inconsistently as mashing the charge move, it just feels like holding down B when trying to catch pokemon in the main games.... Just makes more sense to minimize loss in a consistent way like this when the game is like this
I only find fast move denial remotely useful in a mirror or at least when two moves are the same duration. It still isn't consistent, but at least I feel like I'm making a difference somehow. Just like mashing B on my gameboy when I was 10 haha
Unfortunately for me fast move denial is always very consistent, I never get free fast moves, but my opponents always do. I feel like there is nothing I can do when I'm in a 2 turn fast move mirror. Maybe tap faster (?) probably not.
@@papelurs my theory is that this is related to lag. I live in New Zealand and the same thing happens to me regularly even if I perform fast move denial. I actually don’t think the fast move denial works at all. What we are simply seeing is moves slip through (or not) due to lag between players/server.
ya i definitely think that because of many different issue like server lag, service provider lag, and maybe even region contribute to the inconsistancies. I always throw one turn before my opponent finish just in case
i guess Im randomly asking but does any of you know a trick to get back into an instagram account..? I stupidly forgot the password. I appreciate any help you can offer me.
I'm not musically inclined at all but I do have a couple drummer friends in my circle. So you're keeping track of your own counts, but also keeping track of your opponent so you know what move they've built up to. You're counting two different move durations. Essentially polyrhythms. I never thought a tapping game could get so cerebral haha
Fantastic video and excellent analysis. My theory is that “fast move denial” doesn’t actually work. When moves slip through (or not) what we are seeing is lag between players/servers. Those players who live closer to the servers are more able to stop opponent fast moves slipping through while having more chance at getting their own fast moves through. The inconsistency we see is the inconsistency of lag. That’s why this video is so great. It provides a more consistent method of reducing free energy.
You’ve done an excellent job explaining this. I’ve been trying to wrap my head around this mechanic for a while now. Your video just made it click for me. Thank you!
First, excellent content! I know this took a lot of time. I think it's worth mentioning that there are "pinch" situations where throwing with alignment to attempt to fast move deny is your only win condition; in other words, you cannot afford to give your opponent the free energy throwing out of alignment. I think your philosophy of playing is solid. Be consistent and in the long run you'll come out better off. Never bait. Throw out of alignment whenever possible. Over time, you'll accumulate more wins.
this gave me flashbacks to piano exercises in polyrhythms and practicing them to no end in prepping for a CM level test. i can play pieces with difficult varying LH and RH given the time to master them but polyrhythms in the upper levels was a different mind game and counting over and over
I think it is also worth noting damage denial as well as avoiding sack swaps. I could be wrong, but I think with damage denial you have to allow 2 turns of space to avoid damage. For example sceptile against rapidash (fury cutter vs incinerate) sceptile could get 3 free fury cutters then throw, KO rapidash and not take damage. If sceptile throws 4 fury cutters I believe the damage goes through for the incinerate. Same thing with sack swaps, I think. (correct me if I am wrong.) Allowing 2 turns of space guarantees no sack swap will happen. Hopefully that makes sense/is useful!
It's funny because I feel like I understand the mechanic pretty well, but I view it the same way you're explaining it. Lol. Tried "Denying" 3 or 4 turn moves and they always get one through. Good to see a pro put it the way I see it. Thanks for this video and in depth explanations Taylor! 😁
My PvPAcademia have also done quite an informative video on this topic featuring Elisa Nobile, she uses some cool charts to help highlight this issue too. Thanks for the great content as always FPSticks!
Great tutorial! The inconsistency of fast move denial just makes it seem like it is just RNG with a lucky streak that had given rise to a superstition that the technique works.
Hey dude I didn't know of this mechanic, thank you so much for teaching us about it, you are one of the best content creators out there and very well explained. Keep it up, suscribing
Really really really appreciate this sort of videos every now and then. It's more value adding than show casing battles every time. Thanks dude! You deserve 200k subs by the end of the year!
Thanks for your time and efforts! I would like to see a mirror match as well. Two Empoleons with waterfall for example on the lead, whoever gets the extra fast move gains the switch but not always obvious... I guess the one with the biggest atk is slightly faster for the very first fast move and after a charged?
you cant fix latency issues lol. its basic physics. light can only travel that fast, it is not instantaneous. there will always be a few ms of lag. but you can try to reduce the lag.
@@LiThePear there is a few hundred ms actually, 2 turns or more worth of moves can go off before the game registers me pressing a charged move meaning at least 500 - 1000 ms of latency.
Of course I finally understand this when a music teacher explains it 🙏🏽 So what does that mean for 2 v 2, 3 v 3, 4 v 4 etc? Throw in the middle of your animation?
You can't throw a charge move in the middle of your own fast move. If you and your opponent have fast moves of the same length, all you can do is throw your charge move and pray they don't get a free fast move in.
I always thought it wasn't worth doing, given lag inconsistency, but now I see you get to maximize damage and energy, while minimizing opponents energy. That's worth doing even if it fails imo
This is great info. What do you do regarding counting your opponent's fast moves to know if they're baiting or not? As of yet I haven't mastered counting 2 things at once and would like to start implementing this technique, but not at the expense of burning shields on baits
These are extremely advanced techniques. Human brain can handle so much. I would say there are more important things to worry about like fast reaction to opponent's swap, sac-swap etc. It is going to hurt unexperienced players. Once you master rest of the thing, may be then one can work on this. For starters, just watch confusion and incinerate. Rest might not worth it.
18:35 why confusion damage hit before the charge move animation? Snarl Is a 3 turn move. I lost a match for this reason and i thought it was just some awesome lag.
The reason for this is because it takes three full turns to perform the snarl. You’re then throwing the charge move the NEXT turn. That next turn just happens to be turn four for the opponent’s confusion, which is when the damage of that confusion goes through.
How can you count your moves and also keep track of your enemies energy? Also, if you swap between a Pokémon with a 2 turn move into a Pokémon with a 3 turn move, or the opponent does the same, how does that then work?
Is this a good way to look at it? After alignment, if only one of your fast moves fits inside the duration (or turns) of theirs, throw after 1 of your fast moves. Otherwise, consult the graph? Trying to figure out if there’s a time when this rule wouldn’t work. Ah: I see 3 against 5 breaks this.
You should cover the art of “do nothing” for a second, in order to catch a CM on a different mon. Particularly in the most common 3v2 matchup, since you know your opponent will likely throw after 1 FM
Count the enemies moves and use the fast move denial technique. If you want to count the enemies moves, you gotta forget about the fast move alignment technique and rely on the not as consistent, fast move denial technique.
Use your charge meter as a marker for how many fast moves you've thrown, and count in your head how many fast moves your opponent has. This is easily the best method if you dont want to count or calculate numbers in your head. Now, all you have to do is memorize how many fast moves you have to do before you can throw a charge move and you're good to go.
It’s awesome to have a content creator who’s a teacher and can really break this down I think this stuff has finally click for me
that pose on the thumbnail is what keeps me coming back
hes like a skeleton 😂
You're a runner or you are team yellow.
@@jankees4037 runner:no team yellow:yes ; i just think the pose looks funny haha
Lol
ChaotiX SkuLLS just tall and skinny. no hate
Note: Getting a free fast move when throwing on alignment is the intended behaviour. Fast move denials are unintended.
Second note: Throwing on alignment is a high level strategy when you will win CMP, and you know the opponent will throw on that turn.
Third note: Great video!
If that's the intended behavior, how come it doesn't happen all the time consistently?
@@sadiemixer8744 It used to happen consitently until Niantic dropped an update that was aimed to fix an exploit.
The exploit was a program that could speed up the game, making your charge attack animation finish quicker, and allow you to get a couple of free fast attacks before your opponent could move again.
???
I agree that same turn attack denial is no longer consistent. Say 2 turn vs 2 turn. However, some opponent can still not let a single move leak through in a mirror match up in my observation. How???
@@deadpeng the only way to to deny is when you throw on cmp , or in the middle of your animation ig
Fast move alignment would actually be a really great and incredibly skill-testing mechanic IF it worked consistently. Since it doesn't, it ends up being an absolutely putrid mechanic that very often decides matches based on luck/ping.
I think the question is the "consistency" of it though. Ping/Lag is something we'll never be able to control, but ultimately piloting does very much contribute to wins. If I have an opponent using Confusion and I'm throwing Dragon Breath, you can bet I'm loading up as much as possible on their final animation; likewise, I know not to try to throw right at the alignment point if I can avoid it, to prevent giving up a bunch of unnecessary energy.
Ultimately I think it can be used as a metric to measure skill, is my point.
This video is the only one where I have truely understood about charge move denial. Your explanation is very simple and easy to understand. Thank u so much.
Case can be made for example with 2 against 4 turn moves. You can risk your charge moves on alignment. It's 50:50 chance of enemy getting 4 turns of energy, but if you do it in the middle, there is 100% chance of them getting 2 turns of energy. So basically, if you have very good internet connection and can make it even 51:49 chance, it could be worth it :D But of course it depends on the situation. If you are in the losing position and this can save your game, go for it. If you win by playing it safe, do it in the middle.
Explaining this musically is the first time it’s actually seemed accessible to me. Counting these as 16th, 8th, quarter notes, etc is gonna make it so much simpler on my brain and also much more fun!
Thanks for using that analogy of BPM. I’m a drummer and this definitely helped explain.
Honestly the most useful video about PVP that I've seen. Thank you so much man!
It's a bit of an advanced strategy but I think it is worthwhile to use your charge move on alignment if you expect them to throw a charge move on that same turn, especially if you know you will win cmp and then they get no free turns at all.
Are you able to count your fast moves and opponent's at the same time? I mean the biggest challenge for me to implement this technique would be this because I would be lost. :D
So basically I need to learn duration of each or at least most common fast moves, then their energy gain and energy cost of charge moves. I already know at least which charge moves most of the pokemon have. Then I should learn to count my fast moves to be able to properly time my charge moves and at the same time count fast moves of my opponent to know when they will have specific charge move. That's tough, I mean I really admire you guys that you are able to learn it and properly use in your games. I would like to get better at pvp but this seems pretty impossible for me to learn.
Exactly!
This was super helpful. I really appreciate the approach of "the game will lag" so let's make the minimal impact
As a musician I love that you involved music in explaining this :D Awesome!
No one talks about this really but I really like your approach. Seems like it’s really optimized to the realities of the game. Great work!
2 years old and still super relevant today. Miss you brother. Hope you come back soon😢
When you counting fast move in the battle, im feel like you're there teaching music
I've always thought this made so much more sense. "Fast move denial" is extremely inconsistent. It's basically not even a technique when it works just as inconsistently as mashing the charge move, it just feels like holding down B when trying to catch pokemon in the main games.... Just makes more sense to minimize loss in a consistent way like this when the game is like this
I only find fast move denial remotely useful in a mirror or at least when two moves are the same duration. It still isn't consistent, but at least I feel like I'm making a difference somehow. Just like mashing B on my gameboy when I was 10 haha
Unfortunately for me fast move denial is always very consistent, I never get free fast moves, but my opponents always do. I feel like there is nothing I can do when I'm in a 2 turn fast move mirror. Maybe tap faster (?) probably not.
@@papelurs my theory is that this is related to lag. I live in New Zealand and the same thing happens to me regularly even if I perform fast move denial. I actually don’t think the fast move denial works at all. What we are simply seeing is moves slip through (or not) due to lag between players/server.
ya i definitely think that because of many different issue like server lag, service provider lag, and maybe even region contribute to the inconsistancies. I always throw one turn before my opponent finish just in case
i guess Im randomly asking but does any of you know a trick to get back into an instagram account..?
I stupidly forgot the password. I appreciate any help you can offer me.
FPSticks showing us his 3 2 polyrhythms without being on the kit
THANK U FOR DOING THESE! 😁
I'm not musically inclined at all but I do have a couple drummer friends in my circle. So you're keeping track of your own counts, but also keeping track of your opponent so you know what move they've built up to. You're counting two different move durations. Essentially polyrhythms. I never thought a tapping game could get so cerebral haha
This is the best video that explains this technique. Learned a lot. Thank you!
Fantastic video and excellent analysis. My theory is that “fast move denial” doesn’t actually work. When moves slip through (or not) what we are seeing is lag between players/servers. Those players who live closer to the servers are more able to stop opponent fast moves slipping through while having more chance at getting their own fast moves through. The inconsistency we see is the inconsistency of lag.
That’s why this video is so great. It provides a more consistent method of reducing free energy.
Totally agree with this theory.
You’ve done an excellent job explaining this. I’ve been trying to wrap my head around this mechanic for a while now. Your video just made it click for me. Thank you!
First, excellent content! I know this took a lot of time. I think it's worth mentioning that there are "pinch" situations where throwing with alignment to attempt to fast move deny is your only win condition; in other words, you cannot afford to give your opponent the free energy throwing out of alignment.
I think your philosophy of playing is solid. Be consistent and in the long run you'll come out better off. Never bait. Throw out of alignment whenever possible. Over time, you'll accumulate more wins.
this gave me flashbacks to piano exercises in polyrhythms and practicing them to no end in prepping for a CM level test. i can play pieces with difficult varying LH and RH given the time to master them but polyrhythms in the upper levels was a different mind game and counting over and over
This counting group technique is also very helpful!
I think it is also worth noting damage denial as well as avoiding sack swaps.
I could be wrong, but I think with damage denial you have to allow 2 turns of space to avoid damage.
For example sceptile against rapidash (fury cutter vs incinerate) sceptile could get 3 free fury cutters then throw, KO rapidash and not take damage. If sceptile throws 4 fury cutters I believe the damage goes through for the incinerate.
Same thing with sack swaps, I think. (correct me if I am wrong.) Allowing 2 turns of space guarantees no sack swap will happen.
Hopefully that makes sense/is useful!
It's funny because I feel like I understand the mechanic pretty well, but I view it the same way you're explaining it. Lol. Tried "Denying" 3 or 4 turn moves and they always get one through. Good to see a pro put it the way I see it. Thanks for this video and in depth explanations Taylor! 😁
My PvPAcademia have also done quite an informative video on this topic featuring Elisa Nobile, she uses some cool charts to help highlight this issue too. Thanks for the great content as always FPSticks!
Awesome video, going to watch this a few times I think! Thank you for sharing!
Wow that made so much sense thanks man. The tables really helped and breaking it down step by step
Great tutorial! The inconsistency of fast move denial just makes it seem like it is just RNG with a lucky streak that had given rise to a superstition that the technique works.
I never thought to count moves like counting rests, genius
I think your explanation makes the most sense.
Very insightful. Thanks for illustrating this so well.
FPSticks with the polyrhythm knowledge coming in clutch
Hey dude I didn't know of this mechanic, thank you so much for teaching us about it, you are one of the best content creators out there and very well explained. Keep it up, suscribing
Really really really appreciate this sort of videos every now and then. It's more value adding than show casing battles every time. Thanks dude! You deserve 200k subs by the end of the year!
Thank u i should have watched this on release but here now thanks again for the great content
Such a good video, really helpful!
Was waiting for something like this!
LOVE this style of video!
Super-cool man! I don't know if I'll be able to use it, but man, awesome work here.
Thanks for your time and efforts! I would like to see a mirror match as well. Two Empoleons with waterfall for example on the lead, whoever gets the extra fast move gains the switch but not always obvious... I guess the one with the biggest atk is slightly faster for the very first fast move and after a charged?
great video, needs to watch multiple times
love this kind of videos
Fact : Charms always went through when the timing is sync even you do a fast move denial.(just my personal opn lmao)
So DAMN TRUE
So true! I'm convinced that Charm is the only fast move that cannot be denied. My opponent always gets one through.
Fact: Fast move denial doesnt work, it's 50/50 regardless.
Also fact: The fact it's not consistent is the worst PVP mechanic in the game.
You wrote all that and couldn't write three more letters to complete the word "opinion"?
Shadow claw too
Thanks man for the informative video! This was very helpful.
Your a guru battler, i really enjoy all this information
2:25 When I'm in a hurry and people are too damn slow.
Great information, thank you! Now to try and put it in to practice...
Thank you so much for these kind of teaching. Excellent!!!!!!!
Thank you! I have asked for this kind of content! :)
Damn good video man! you're not the legend we deserve but the one we need!
Step 1: wait until Niantic fixes the latency issues
Step 2: don't worry, you won't get to step 2
you cant fix latency issues lol. its basic physics. light can only travel that fast, it is not instantaneous. there will always be a few ms of lag. but you can try to reduce the lag.
@@LiThePear The problem isn't latency existing, the problem is how it effects the game.
@@LiThePear there is a few hundred ms actually, 2 turns or more worth of moves can go off before the game registers me pressing a charged move meaning at least 500 - 1000 ms of latency.
My head can't hold this much info at once; Ow! This is why I suck in high ranks.
It's because, he didn't do it correctly.
Most people want a basic understanding not a 30 min video about everything.
This was SO helpful! Thank you so much
thanks for the informative vid fp!!
Very nice explanation, thank you.
Need one for mirror matches or similar turn moves!
Thanks for the deep breakdown 🤟
@fpsticks what is your advice for simultaneously counting the opponents fast move count and counts for alignment?
Ayy someone that actually knows how the game works, nice. I think you are correct sir.
Thank you so much 👍👍
Great content thanks for making me a better battler!
Very good! Congratulations and thank you!
Of course I finally understand this when a music teacher explains it 🙏🏽
So what does that mean for 2 v 2, 3 v 3, 4 v 4 etc? Throw in the middle of your animation?
You can't throw a charge move in the middle of your own fast move. If you and your opponent have fast moves of the same length, all you can do is throw your charge move and pray they don't get a free fast move in.
Usually it results in a game of chicken, trying to let the opponent throw first so you can get an energy advantage.
Right and after throwing the CM rapidly tap the screen and pray it 'denies' their fast move sneaking through.
@@voshadxgathic then when they throw a charged move and you don't get an extra fast move in, you just sit there and feel bad 😅
When drumming comes in handy 🥳
Love the vids
Anyone else back a year later for a refresher because of the new update?
I never learned this properly in the first place, but yep, I'm here because of the updates!
Wish I'd found your channel years ago. Last upload on your channel was 1 year ago :( hope you're doing well. You deserve more subs
I always thought it wasn't worth doing, given lag inconsistency, but now I see you get to maximize damage and energy, while minimizing opponents energy. That's worth doing even if it fails imo
amazing class on polyrhythms! =)
Does anyone have a link to the spreadsheet he uses for the fast moves?
Thank you so much FP 🙏🏼
Really thank u it’s a really helpful video appreciation for your hard work. Is there a chart where I can get the summary chart of this
Almost everyone about fast move denial: GO SEE WALOVERS VID
wallover: heyyy i am getting sponsered everywhere....
Awesome vid, thank you so much!
Every Pokeak fan should watch this video
This is great info. What do you do regarding counting your opponent's fast moves to know if they're baiting or not? As of yet I haven't mastered counting 2 things at once and would like to start implementing this technique, but not at the expense of burning shields on baits
Alolan Marowak be doing a Waltz in 120bpm!
thanks for doing these
Absolute legend
Does this still work with the update getting rid of fast move denial?
Very nice video! 😉
I agree with everyone else this was an impressive video thanks FP 😃
These are extremely advanced techniques. Human brain can handle so much. I would say there are more important things to worry about like fast reaction to opponent's swap, sac-swap etc. It is going to hurt unexperienced players. Once you master rest of the thing, may be then one can work on this. For starters, just watch confusion and incinerate. Rest might not worth it.
this was a great vid!
18:35 why confusion damage hit before the charge move animation? Snarl Is a 3 turn move. I lost a match for this reason and i thought it was just some awesome lag.
The reason for this is because it takes three full turns to perform the snarl. You’re then throwing the charge move the NEXT turn. That next turn just happens to be turn four for the opponent’s confusion, which is when the damage of that confusion goes through.
Love ur vids
Great video! One question: where do you find how many turns each CM has? Sorry if it is somewhat obvious...
So this method is very similar to like polyrhythms and eurythmics?
It's more like the least common multiple from math.
How can you count your moves and also keep track of your enemies energy? Also, if you swap between a Pokémon with a 2 turn move into a Pokémon with a 3 turn move, or the opponent does the same, how does that then work?
Is this a good way to look at it? After alignment, if only one of your fast moves fits inside the duration (or turns) of theirs, throw after 1 of your fast moves. Otherwise, consult the graph? Trying to figure out if there’s a time when this rule wouldn’t work.
Ah: I see 3 against 5 breaks this.
You should cover the art of “do nothing” for a second, in order to catch a CM on a different mon. Particularly in the most common 3v2 matchup, since you know your opponent will likely throw after 1 FM
We need fps sticks back
So what should I be doing? Counting like this or counting my opponent s moves to know when he has charge moves ready?
Count the enemies moves and use the fast move denial technique. If you want to count the enemies moves, you gotta forget about the fast move alignment technique and rely on the not as consistent, fast move denial technique.
Use your charge meter as a marker for how many fast moves you've thrown, and count in your head how many fast moves your opponent has.
This is easily the best method if you dont want to count or calculate numbers in your head.
Now, all you have to do is memorize how many fast moves you have to do before you can throw a charge move and you're good to go.
You can even wait them to throw to have the reset and then do your thing
Knowing every mon's Match ups, so You can tell , by counting your own moves, how much energy the rival has....
Easy to Say, hard to do =/
Is there somewhere we can download your spreadsheet? Thanks,
4:07
Stepbros: 👁👄👁
tell me this is like reading notes of music and hitting certain notes? rng or bpm its very intresting.