Rome (HBO) - Cicero and Brutus Surrender to Ceasar
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2021
- After the defeat of Pompey, Cicero and Brutus decide to surrender.
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No doubt the bread that Caesar handed to Brutus was brought to them by the Guild of Millers.
true roman bread for true romans
Tosses his tablet to his slave and steps of his podium with some effort.
True Roman Bread, For True Romans
The Arrakeen guild of brewers uses only the finest melange in their spice coffee. True Fremen spice for true Fremen.
Made from the finest grains. True roman bread for true romans.
The look Cesar gives Mark Anthony
"Not one single smartass comment out of you"
What amazing acting.
I always wondered why Caesar didn't react on Anthony spitting bread after Caesar himself treated Cicero and Brutus as welcomed guests.
It shows Caesar's command and charisma with how just a stern look quiets his most obnoxious subordinate. Antony spitting out the food doesn't bother Caesar-he knows it's just Antony sulking like a spoiled child and lets it pass.
Historically, Marc Anthony probably quite respected Brutus.
Historically the sopranos have been nothing more then a glorified crew@@donkeyknight1453
3:03 That look Caesar gives Antony. "Don't...just don't..."
I absolutely love just how 'Roman' those men round the table look. Their faces, their haircuts etc. Brilliant and subtle casting
Pretty sure all the extras were Italian so that would make sense.
Cicero knew this was a brilliant and clever tactic of Cesar. He needed Cicero and Brutus to legitimize his actions in Rome. If he had treated them as prisoners he would have shown himself a tyrant.
Julius Caesar always have a sharp eye on people and what potential or threat they may provide to him personally. Yes, Cicero was very smart and playing this game in politics for years, however time pass on and Cicero become older, while young generations grow up and some of them were much smarter than Cicero and his friends in senate. And one of those smart kids was Octavian Augustus, who saw everything what Cicero and old fellas did, and in the most convenient and suitable for Octavian moment he outright slaughtered Cicero and whole other company of old patricians by teaming up with Mark Antony and when this threat was eliminated he eliminates Mark Antony himself. And both Caesar and Octavian never has genuine desire in murdering their political opponents, so Caesar forgive them all but paid for that with his life and Octavian simply learned on Caesar mistakes and was forced to deal with his opponents in the way how he did. That is why Caesar words that "Rome won't forgive you twice" came out as a prophecy at the end of the day and why we have months named as July and August in honor of Caesar and Octavian, but we don't have a month named in the honor of Cicero or Brutus.
Also everyone remembered he brutality of Sulla. Rome was not a merciful society but it was (ostensibly) an honorable one. When you fight against someone and are defeated and then mercifully pardoned and forgiven you couldn't possibly have the gall to then stab that person in the back (oops)
They murdered him as tyrant. What are you talking about?
Historically speaking, no, Caesar was genuinely friendly towards his enemies, except in Spain. I remember one episode where he had successfully encircled a town or something, but he let the "senatorial" party surrender the city peacefully, leave on their own terms, and take the money the Senate had sent with them. Until late Africa or Spain he had real reservations about doing harm to his fellow Romans.
Maybe, but remember how Ceasar was treated in the civil wars with Sula.
He wanted very much to treat Pompey the same. Not only becuase he was his former son in law, but because he was a former Trimivur. An ally. A fellow Roman who was misled by the Optimates who were merely using Pompey to rid themselves of Caesar and then planned to rid themselves of Pompey.
Haven't seen the show but in reality Pompey was not being "misled" or "used" by the Optimates, it was a deliberate political shift made by him to claim more power. He married the daughter of a prominent optimate to secure the alliance and became the most powerful man in Rome, being even able to serve as Consul both unelected and for multiple consecutive years.
This is not to say that Caesar wouldn't have pardoned him. It was in his best interest to let Pompey live, so he may declare his surrender and put an end to the civil war with no bloodshed.
@@ismaelismael8543 no bloodshed, beacause he needed rome united. In gaul he killed millions - he made a genocide there.
@@remembergandhi1434 hey, i'm no caesar apologist, the man was still a genocidal and corrupt tyrant but it's a fact that he wanted to avoid purging his political rivals as Sulla did before him or as Octavian would eventually do.
Also i would add that this was not out of fear of killing other romans but a political strategy to prevent alienating the Senate, it's possible to assume that Caesar did enjoy the deaths of some of his rivals, such as Cato, as he commissioned painting of their demises and had them paraded around in his triumphs
I'd say they both misled each other. Had Pompey won, he'd have become somewhat similar to Caesar, albeit with far more limited powers. Pompey was just as ambitious as Caesar was, and ruthless in his own right.
@@ismaelismael8543 right i was gonna say the same thing thank you for doing it for me. Without him none of this would of happened without his army they wouldn't of dares refuse cesear even when he tried to do all the right things he just didn't wanna go back and be thrown in jail or exiled which is exactly what would of happened just because of politics. It always makes me happy to think how useless the senate was for so many many many years well rome was still very strong. They did it to themselves
as if in the midst of it all, Caesar never forgot that they are all Romans.
Ok
@@hannahlarocco4699 ok
That's one thing I do like about Caesar. Romans fighting Romans was the death of the Republic and weakened the Empire too, whilst the barbarian folk always took advantage
I thought the TV show did a good job walking the line between Caesar doing it out of genuine noble/patriotic/brotherly allegiance, and doing it because it was the most politically advantageous thing to do: a dictator isn't a dictator if he has the (famous dictator-killing) Brutii and Cicero (the legal/intellectual heart of Rome) on his side.
Note Cicero's jibe, "we're what's left of Rome, come to surrender to your 'chief'", as if Caesar isn't a real Roman, but some barbarian who conquered the real Rome.
@@transvestosaurus878100% agree.
Caesar was a complex man and he surely has alot of diference reasons. He act to his political adventage and to what he thought was correct.
Fucking brilliant scene. Always loved that (in the show atleast) while Caesar was bothered at the fact that men he considered his friends, and Brutus whom he considered his son, chose to stand against him. He never held grudges or harbored ill will against them. He was happy that they could settle their disputes without the death of one another. They were not his enemies, they were simply opposing him. And of course, opposition to a man like Caesar will always be met with force, whether they be friends or family. But not with cruelty and not without regret of being forced to do so.
Interestingly he would also demand absolute loyalty afterwards in the show at least there’s a scene where Caesar makes Brutus take a post he doesn’t want to and then subtly threatens him when Brutus doesn’t want to, I can’t remember what it was cause I haven’t seen the show in a while but it showed Caesar’s true nature really well
You're romanticising Caesar too much, but I don't blame you, since this gesture of forgiving his enemies was a genius PR move that still continues to communicate its intended message after 2000 years have passed.
There were several reasons he did this beyond just friendship and family. Forgiving them established him as beyond their reach in terms of power and influence, since only someone who is in a very strong position can afford to show clemency to an enemy after a bloody war. It also showed him in positive light as a benevolent leader, who is willing to let go of grudges for sake of unity and the greater good of the Roman state. It lessened fears of him consolidating all the power in his hands and striving to become a monarch, which for many at the time was still seen as a taboo. It increased the likelihood of others submitting to him after the civil war, since they would profit from that instead of being killed. Besides that, killing a man like Cicero would have been a huge waste, since he was rhetoric and political genius - and also might have made a martyr out of him for the cause of reestablishing the old republican structures (which Caesar wanted to gradually reform or abolish).
Unfortunately for Caesar this move still eventually backfired, since it also led to a lot of not trustworthy people being in his close proximity.
Caesar betrayed the Republic by marching on Rome and taking power by force! Whereas his enemies, we're Loyal to Rome and fought for Rome ITSELF!!!
Yea I love Ceaser as much as the next guy but I’m pretty sure he did that shit for publicity lol
Caesar is a contradiction - showing so many Roman manly virtues - but at the same time ending the republic.
Clementia - it was one of Caesar’s most famous qualities.
It is?
To other Romans at least
And then it got him killed.
Isn't that an STD?
@@Ronfost89 Its easy to say one trait was the cause but wasn't. Life is water, the cause can be 20 different things.
His Clementia served him as a quality
Ironically it was because he himself, as the nephew of Marius and son-in-law of Cinna, that he was proscribed as a young man by Sulla. It was probably this experience that led Caesar to be lenient towards conquered Roman foes as long as they kept their promise to not raise arms again.
But also lead to his death he was to lenient you know. And octavian showed the way.
@@dominicp9296 To some extent but some of the people who murdered Caesar sided with him in the Civil War. Caesar's biggest mistake that Octavian learned from was his use of Dictator for Life and his ostentatious accumulation of absolute power which offended people. Its speculation but a lot of people seem to think Caesar legitimately meant to name himself King or Rex, in the style of a Hellenistic Monarch something that was a bridge too far for most Roman elites including Caesarians. Octavian instead, like Sulla cultivated an image of a person trying to restore the Republic. Octavian's proscriptions obviously did a lot to eliminate opposition but long term his very intentional refusal of titles like Dictator and after 23 BC would no longer serve as Consul every year, instead retaining imperium and some tribunician powers but few titles and allowing kind of a Republican farce to continue with him in the background.
@@dominicp9296 Octavian was hated because of the proscriptions especially when children who inherited from their proscribed parents were murdered too. Octavian was lucky he had an amazing battle commander in Agrippa who mastered land and sea warfare .
Caesar was proscribed as a young man, and was lucky to survive. He did not want to be Sulla.
That, and he was so possessed by his own sense of destiny that he didn't believe that anyone could truly threaten him, any more than anyone could threaten Alexander. So, he could afford to be merciful, because it was his destiny to go from victory to victory (until suddenly he didn't).
You had the courage to stand up to me and the wisdom to stand down
Outlaw King
How could one not be forever loyal to someone who did that? Amazed they turned on him again.
In a declining Republic, honor is the first thing to die. Look at America. France.
@@thisisaname5589 and the women always become loose in a declining society
@@smellypatel5272 true.
@@smellypatel5272 Fitting name because judging by the way you speak your body odor is probably worthy of a fine from the EPA.
Get laid or make your peace and stop being so sour. 🫡
@@smellypatel5272They ain’t loose in Saudi Arabia, but it’s hard to call that a region on the rise
Having them back and alive helped cement caesar's legitimacy, and they were people he respected and considered friends.
The respect Romans all had for Caesar. They fought and died for him, and even forgave the very enemies of Rome which killed them (Romans) with him. They knew Caesar was Rome. Otherwise, "they" as such a very stubborn, and proud people. Never would have done so in the first place. Hail Caesar.
Why
Blind idolisation. A state should not be one man nor one man be the state. Caesar as clever, competent, generous a leader he was wanted to be a king. That’s what killed him. Cicero was the true hero of that era, a man did what was best for Rome’s stability and not his own ambition.
Tell that to Vercingetorix
Caesar made his greatest mistake in sparing Brutus, Cassius, Cicero, and their ilk.
I guess that it would be too hard to not spare Brutus. He did see him as a son, after all.
Best tv series ever made !! want to watch for the 20th time but missis kicking off
I don't think Caesar's mercy is genuine. His kindness is purely tactical and Brutus and Cicero are both aware of it. Cicero is really scared but Brutus is either subtly angry and repulsed or in regret to endure such mockery of Caesar rather than choosing an honorable death. And maybe he's also angry at himself for being such a coward to accept this belittlement.
You can definitely see that Caesar will not be a friend behind his mask of etiquette when his tone subtly changes while he's saying "I insist!"
It means that he's ready and willing to bully those two. It's almost sounding like "You are mine now, don't make this turn uglier, don't make me make an example of you and just do as I say".
He never misses a chance to make a remark to remind them what their actual situation is: "I'm questioning you like war prisoners no matter how hungry and thirsty you are, because this is my priority. And look what you two have become; two aristocrats and commanders, rich with legions but opposing me left you starving like two despicable beggars." This hunger and thirst followed by a simple meal at soldiers' table is a clever irony because in an earlier scene, the comrades Scipio, Cato, Pompey, Cicero and Brutus were sitting around a rich table, eating expensive food and drinking wine, believing that they had Caesar cornered and ready to fall. This creates a perfect contrast between two supper scenes.
And again, it's all theatrics, a show of power: like his psychotic heir Octavius having displayed the dead bodies of Marcus Antonius and Cleopatra publicly, Caesar also displays his dominance in both directions:
To soldiers and his lower ranks: "Look my soldiers, these are my pets now."
And to Brutus and Cicero: "By me these soldierly men eat with you, but without me, these men would eat you. Look at these crude, loud, mannerless brutes, they are simple animals and it is I who hold them in line."
Marcus Antonius partly understands Caesar's motivations but still he's a relatively shallow politician and an emotional man. He's too angry at Brutus and (especially) Cicero to endure such a petty show of dominance from Caesar. He glances at Caesar like "Oh, so you are ready to reconcile with these worms just to secure more power? There's nothing you can not give up to have your throne, is it? You are betraying our cause by letting these two live just because of your damned politics."
Antonius does not believe in subtle politics, his style is to show dominance by the dead bodies of his defeated enemies -remember Cicero's hands nailed on the senate door. Befittingly, that's what he ends up being in the end, a corpse to be displayed publicly.
How would you be feeling if you just lost a battle with someone and they come to you acting like they're your best friend? Got to love the tension in this series between all the parties...
Ceasar was so merciful in victory.
Because it was too his benefit.
@@iateyursandwichesevidently not
1) He knew what is was like to be on the losing side, and so had some sympathy for Pompey and the Senate. 2) He had a sense of destiny and invincibility, such that he didn't believe anyone could truly hurt or threaten him (he saw himself as the next Alexander), so he could afford to be merciful.
So well directed, such good acting.
Present your Enemy with dilemmas, not problems
McBeth via Caesar
Great scene…et tue Brute…..
I like this show. So much attention to details, costumes, equipment... and now stirrups. Quite vexing, don't you think, Mr. Collins?
If you like the costumes in this . Have a look at the Chinese Series "Rise of the Phoenixes " English sub titles but well done and the sets are great ,especially in the Palaces .
Mercy…that came back to bite Caesar, big time.
This scene shows exactly why Octavian Caesar defeated Marc Anthony.
Ceaser's greatest mistake letting these two live.
Cicero was an honourable man, and the conspirators didn't include him because they feared he would warn Ceasar of the assassination plot.
Brutus...Brutus was like a son to Ceasar, and the son of his mistress Calpernia.
Ceasar's biggest mistake was in acting like a king. If he hadn't consolidated SO much power to himself, had himself named dictator for life, he may have lived.
Brutus was a republican. Ceasar destroyed the republic.
One could, and I would, argue that Ceasar saved Rome by doing that, because it had been on the verge of tearing itself apart. Hardly a decade had gone by for 150 years without some form of civil war.
But a die-hard republican like Brutus, he couldn't abide what Ceasar did.
Politically he had no choice in the moment, if he killed or jailed them after they had surrendered honorably he'd be the tyrant they claimed he was. Granted he could've knocked them off later when it quieter but he had a deep love for Brutus as the son he never had and Cicero was a powerful mid ground politician he was likely hoping to sway to his side.
Caesar regrets forgiving these treacherous pair of bastards, that's for sure.......
He was on another level.
What a master piece of acting 🤩 Btw - I wonder if Marcus Junius Brutus was never "Brute", as some of you call him. Didn't that come from Shakespeares play? It doesn'e sound right in latin.......
Both amazing and terrifying and tragic.
Let us not forget that he WAS a butcher He said it himself "killed a million enslaved a million "
By the gods, I hate Brutus
Why? He can as easily be viewed as a hero. Caesar might very well have been trying to make himself king, and Brutus tried, even at the risk of his own personal honour and his life, to preserve his country from a tyrant.
@@Akillesursinne Tyrant who wanted to help the people and rid Rome of the corruption. Real tyrants were to corrupted senate and the other rich people in Rome. Some important reforms Caesar made were the reduction of slave labor, the forgiveness of debts, and encouragement to serve in public office. He set up what may have been the world's first fire department. Julius Caesar did a lot of things to Roman government by reforming the laws and create calendar and gave citizenship to people. He set an example to the people and to future people. Julius Caesar was a symbol for everything because he fought to earn his spot as dictator and help people out. Brutus was a useful idiot.
@@Akillesursinne I don't think Brutus is a hero at all! You should check out Michael Parenti's book 'The Assassination of Julius Caesar'. Caesar wasn't a tyrant but a dictator making reforms in favour of the plebeians. Brutus and the others killed Caesar to preserve their patrician class power. I think Caesar's death actually made the rise of an Emperor - an actual tyrant - more likely, not less.
Yup killing ceasar was the final nail in the republic, it caused the second Civil war and alowed octavian to take power. And unlike ceasar l, octavian and Anthony killed all of their enemies after taking power. Theres a great video about the proscription list of octavian, Anthony and lepidus. Its glosed over in the show but it was terrificly brutal.
Don't care
Caesar was forgiving to Romans to a fault.
3:12 Antony with some other officer.. they had the right to distrust Brutus he later betrays and kills Caesar
this is a Famous characteristic of Caesar, If he could give clemency, he gave it.
Indeed, as shown how he treated the tribes of Gaul who surrendered to him or gave him aid, Caesar may have butchered many Gauls that went against him but how many were spared from the tribal squabbling when under Rome's rule, they prospered under Caesar.
If the Romans proved anything during their existence, it's that magnanimity is a huge risk to take. And that balancing your actions and reactions around lesser men is like walking a tightrope.
Although we do have to acknowledge that magnanimity in the case of caesar is on of the key factors why he became so big and important in the first place. To the people of rome he was a god as merciful as he was mighty. Him showing mercy and gratitude elevated him into a position in which he could take the powers of dictator with full approval of the citizenship. His approach to politics, favouring the plebs, including his former enemies, casting aside the yoke of outdated tradition is all born from a passion rooted in magnanimity and progression because he knew the old system was no longer fit to serve the republic.
I argue magnanimity is the sole reason caesar is as important as he is today. Cruel tyrants are a dime a dozen. Beloved ones tend to stand out in history.
Its a dangerous game he played and lost. But if he hadnt played it we wouldnt be talking about him.
@@dektarey4024 That's kind of what I said. But I did it without all the extra shit.
@@user-ig2vf3yl1c You said it was risky. I said its the biggest reason caesar's important.
Thats quite a leap by conversation standards.
@@user-ig2vf3yl1ceh the other poster had a more interesting comment. No need to be salty about it
@@dektarey4024interesting take
Anthor hit snthor miss
this is the part where J.C. coined forgiveness. And love your enemies. He SURPASSES SUN TZU IN ROMAN MESSIAHSHIP.
bread looks flame
why does cicero move weird like that
Piles
Caesar was a true LEADER and the best general in history
Actually,Pompey the great was better. Pompey had Caesar cornered at Pharsalus and,as he said, Caesar would be starved into submission.The only reason he lost was the other senators needed a Victory in battle,as it would show the gods were against Caesar,and Pompey was stupid enough to accede
@@Trebor74Pompey was rushed into battle by his constituents (minus Cato), because he felt uncomfortable being called Agamemnon by them. If that isn't bad and weak leadership, I don't know what is. His battle strategy was also terrible in that last battle.
WHY THEY DID CANCEL IT?
It cost them too much money and they started going into debt. So they canceled it.
However, it actually out performed after it was announced that it was canceled. By then it was too late. You have to remember this was the era of DVDs.
Today with streaming? It probably would never been canceled. Provided you could get people to watch a historical drama.
is any of this accurate?
Depends on who you read, some writers believed Caesar was genuine, other say he was being calculated. The one thing to point out was that Caesar did not proscribe the population like Sulla or his successor Octavian would. So when compared to the other demogagues of the republican era he does come out looking better morally, which is really saying something considering his campaign in Gaul was practically a genocide.
It is a fact that Caesar pardoned his political rivals as long as they surrendered to him and showed remorse for their actions, to only point of contention comes with his motives.
Some believe it was idealistic conviction, the refusal to kill fellow romans.
I personally believe that the real reason was that, by bringing in influential politicians to his side, Caesar could consolidate power more easily than by purging the Senate, which would allienate him from the nobility and draw comparissons with Sulla's Dictatorship.
Most of them are his contemporaries, some are his friends, and even then its a smart political move, and good propaganda for the people to see.
@@joehill4094 People living in Gaul before Caesar weren't romans.. Just savages/slaves for the romans, so Caesar did what he had to do to civilize that land
@@KaiserLandsknecht savages what load of shit the gauls had there own culture and laws
The greatest stateman in those times was Cicero. I wish he was portrayed in his real magnitude
Although the actor did a great job, the script simply sabotaged him. In this series Cicero comes across as a manipulative worm, always nagging others on. I think it'd be a better portrayal if we'd have more instances of him giving speeches in the senate and all around engaging in tense diplomacy. But alas, all we've got is the weasel iteration.
Cicero was a great statesman, but he spent the back half of his career trying to recreate the glory days of his consulship when he put down the Catiline conspiracy. He annoyed lots of people by constantly talking about, and it led him to stake out positions and engage in rhetoric that eventually got him killed. A brilliant but flawed man.
Ok
simply a matter of keeping your enemies close
Brutus,...how disappointing. He could never reconcile his ambition with doing the 'Right Thing.' His apprehension and uncertainty made him easily manipulated. "Et tu Brute?" 🔪🩸💔
This is fact: Cassius was considered the more vicious one, and he knew how to touch Brutus's pride.