You silly goose, you absolute swine! Not EVERYONE in Hell has the same shade of red. But the show is centered in the Pride ring for a reason. 😡(Joke) By the way, what other colors would you prefer in Hazbin Hotel???
Ngl, i feel like the setting-color thing can be nailed. For example, if its a forest themed char, it can be pulled off uidng yellow, green, etc. i feel like the representation of S-C in HH is very poor, and it couldve been better
I keep saying that the Pentious “sex with everyone” joke would have actually been funny if the crowd responded in the opposite way. They cheer with the first two “I’m doing this for everyone” covers, so when he says “I’m having sex with everyone!” The crowd should have been dead silent, with maybe a shot of some of the ppl looking unenthusiastic about the prospect, bc then it’s a depricating joke at his expense, like all the other jokes about his character.
Man that would've made me chuckle like an idiot 😭 It's just so easy to tell that this whole show (and helluva boss) is just the writers barely disguised fetish... They can't even hide it in the jokes 😭
Especially if one of the people who were reacting negatively was a sex addict. Maybe they're so infamous for being addicted to sex that all the other sex addicts want nothing to do with them! And then, during the "sex with everyone" joke, the guy in question would go up to Pentious and say, "Dude, not even *I* am that desperate to get fucked." And then they leave the nightclub and not appear again for the rest of the episode.
The joke with Serpentious COULD have been funny if they just had made the club quiet down at that moment and everyone just looked at him weirdly ! Hell, you could have made a criquet hell demon to make it even more !
One thing that annoys me a lot, regardless of any of the show’s other problems is Vaggie. WHY VAGGIE?? Like oh my god, at least her name was originally Vagatha (which is still awful), BUT THEN SHE CHANGED IT TO ACTUALLY BE VAGINA. It’s just so gratuitous and immature.
WAIT THATS WHAT IT STANDS FOR?? I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST VAGGIE AND REMINDED ME OF VEGETABLE OR SOMETHING NOT FUCKING VAGINA THATS SUCH A CRUEL THING TO DO TO A CHARACTER 😭🙏
that plus the lack of substance in the only sapphic couple in the show (i think, i haven't watched the show) really makes you question how vivziepop views lesbians. :/
@trqsh_can IMO it says more about how Viv views gay men than women. It’s no secret that a lot of the gay relationships are very openly sexual, in either of the shows. I think Vivienne doesn’t put as much emphasis on her wlw relationships because she isn’t turned on by them, but is turned on by the mlm relationships. I think she’s fetishizing her gay characters and ignoring her lesbian characters who give her no pleasure.
Oh, yeah. I hate her name. I've written a couple of Hazbin fanfics, and I changed her name in both of them. One of them is a D&D AU, so I just called her Agatha. The other is meant to be potentially canon compliant, so I referred to her as Veggie, ostensibly short for Vegetable. Made me laugh _and_ got me out of having to write her actual name. (I'm not sure what my thoughts on the show are - I'm scared to watch it, but reserving judgment until I do. But I absolutely loved the idea of what the show was sold as being before it came out, and I wrote some stuff based off of that.)
I must confess, they totally ruined Alastor's character for me. He sounds so cringe for someone who died in the 1900s. They made him look so powerful in the pilot, and now he's just for display in empty spaces.
@@Wolf_Blobfr. The lack of cleanness in the lineart of his pilot design made him look even more powerful. Can’t forgive the undercut-bob thingy though 😭 tf was that
As a teen, I'm WAY MORE mature than who the f*ck thought that fetishizing rape is ok in a show that talks about rape. I'm even planning to explain why RadioSilence is my favourite "ship", since in my opinion it is the BEST fanon "ship" that even came out of one the worst fandoms in the whole World of fandoms.
I kinda feel like that's a bit of her "character" that she's naive and thinks everyone and everything is perfect and nice and deserves a second chance, I don't really know how to feel about it??.😭 Like it's okay but I would expect her to know better.
I think the issue is that she still ends up being right despite. Being super naive. Even when she's directly freaking out over the hotel supposedly not working when shes on trial in heaven it suddenly does. There's really not a moment where Charlie realizes her oversimplification of redemption and how it was husk that helped angel rather than her
@daisyblueofficial but like she should know better she's literally called them sinners like does she not know what that word means It feels like the writter just over looked something in the script
i mean tbf they kinda show that heaven has zero clue what they're doing half the time, so there's definitely a chance they put people in hell when they don't belong there, but she's definitely really naive, and it's on purpose but at the same time it sorta feels like they made her act like a child. i get that's her main character flaw, but like...bringing crayon drawings to a serious meeting about the slaughter of your people? really???
Vivziepop only knows how to write two things: gay relationship drama and daddy issues. It is like her skills as a writer stagnated at the level of teenage-made fanfiction.
@@jameslazaridis4180 You can criticize a creator without hating them. I actually enjoyed Helluva Boss initially before it abandoned its initial premise and became the Stolas and Blitzo show. I just think Vivziepop became enamored with that ship to the detriment of the show. I still watch each new episode that comes out to see if there are some improvements. To her credit, she stopped the seemingly endless trend of introducing new villains without following-up on previous villains. I like that we more backstory and characterization of Millie recently who has been the most nelgected member of the IMP. I still hate that the show is a giant Stolitz shipfic, but, I could look past it if there were other things going on.
@@jameslazaridis4180 What a weak argument! He in no way said he hated VivziPop! Show me where exactly the person said he hates Vizi as a person. Show it and we’ll both eat our hats! For the record, I myself don’t hate VivziPop as a person despite some of the controversies. I find she can be annoying and predictable but that doesn’t mean she can’t change if she is willing to improve. I applaud her for going as far as she is in getting her show on air. That being said, the show still sucks and is very flawed. That doesn’t mean VivziPop is bad either. She’s could improve in the writing.
I hate how Hazbin is written like a kid's show with swearing added on top. Take out the 18+ jokes and congrats, you got yourself the newest Disney Channel original.
sexual assault and harassment aren't an adult topic, children also suffer from these vile acts. There have been children media's about sexual harassment that portray the topic far far better than whatever ep 4 or the way angel is handled was. It's quite a shame that an "adult show" takes assault less seriously than a literal sitcom made for elementary kids.
As a grown woman I realize that Almost every Disney channel cartoon is so boring Gravity falls is the least evil because it did have a good story and beautiful art style and great voice actors but one of my flaws with the show is that almost every character is an overused stereotype For example Dipper is a simp most of time Mabel who is a very likeable character but she gets hated by fans for no reason Stan and Soos are alright Wendy is just a boring tomboy it would be if she was a redneck because she's a lumberjane beauty Robbie is just there I guess Gideon is a spoiled crybaby the show made him evil Mabel's friends are just there Pacifica is a stereotypical mean girl the show made her into an evil mean girls villain As McGugget is the only good character next to Stan and Soos and Wendy
20:13 There is no chemistry there. Angel Dust constantly pushed himself on to Husk and whenever Husk would say no, Angel Dust would continue anyway. Sure they made up, but it did not imply any romance to me. I don’t really like the idea of shipping them!
When you said the main inspiration for Hazbin was BoJack Horseman I nearly fell over 💀 Hazbin WISHES it could handle such delicate topics like Bojack did. I really did want it to be good. I hoped we would have explored the characters & why they were in hell in the first place but instead, it felt as if I was thrown into something I should have already been familiar with which I wasn't.
I freaking LOVE BH and is that true?! That is soooo off bro. I feel the HH (and also HB) is incapable of handling topics like in BH. They can't even make character consistent sometimes, just take Angel Dust for example, for such harsh topics like SA and abuse, they still made Angel quite... unlikeable, even when they TRY to potray Angel catcalling, harrasing Husk as a joke it's still pretty odd, especially it's ANGEL, where he's supposed to be the victim. And the thing is, the show CAN'T say it's trying to show that it's the effect of abuse going down from one person to another, they literally brushed it off a lot and barely addresses it, or even doesn't address it all.
As a teenager..... REAL. hazbin feels like what being a teenager feels like: a child masquerading as an adult, and insisting its more grown and mature then it really is.
I love the concept, but the execution of hazbin hotel was...rough. I especially hate how they didn’t flesh out sinners. The idea of "not all sinners are bad" ABSOLUTELY could work, but Charlie only says it and never mentions what gets a soul into hell. Is it any sin written in the book, including old testaments that apparently counted eating hamburgers, having tattoos, suicide and being short as a sin? Maybe they could've played with the idea that heaven only sees the sin and not the reason, like a woman who murdered her abusive husband and killed herself because of the shame/guilt, ending up in hell, or maybe a teenager who killed their abusive family or shot their bullies, a gold digger who cheated on their partner and ended up in hell, there's so many ways to make a character morally grey and still end up in hell! But they chose to show, not tell, which sucks, because this show could've been something great. Also, why do they only wear red? Im sure hell has more than that available.
I’ve written so many scenarios like this. I’ve even- Embarrassingly, -given some canon characters, like Vox, noncannonical backstory. I made him exist during the rise of tv in the mid 1900s, just after Alastor’s time. I gave him some family and a little bit of angsty shot because I needed to in my heart of hearts- You don’t set out to make a monster, evil isn’t just born into the world to hurt people, you gotta give them a reason.
Agreed. Like what if there was a character who was a peasant and killed someone to get food for their starving family or something? So many ways to create nuance and they decided to do nothing.
If Hazbin hotel was still an indie project with one to a few people on board to write it i would give it so much more slack, but this is a whole ass animation studio with a whole team of writers doing nothing to make it better
honestly i really wish it had stayed an indie project, sure we wouldn't have gotten as many big name voice actors and it probably still wouldn't be perfect given the quality of helluva boss, but i imagine there'd be a lot more control over the direction the show goes (although maybe it's better because viv has less control over it?? idk what goes on behind the scenes lmfao) and we wouldn't have had to wait 4 years for 8 episodes that end up rushing the story because they don't know if they'll get another season or not. i know we're going to get at least 3 more seasons, but if they're all 8 episodes long it'll probably just be more of the same, i really want an episode that's kinda just a slice of life thing that lets us learn about the characters and gives us a reason to root for them, but since there's only 8 episodes worth of time it means they HAVE to move the plot along RIGHT NOW in order to wrap everything up by the end, and it's frustrating. i really, really think it would have been better if it just stayed as an indie show.
The answer is simple: HH and HB are not adult shows, this show is like cigarettes that children take to smoke around the corner to seem older and cooler, but only children consider smoking as something cool. This show is for children and childish adults, bc the scriptwriters are the same childish adults, who haven't matured. Thanks for the video!! Very beautiful art!
It may be adult in its content, but it is not mature in its themes. It's very childish and it resembles the type of humor I'd have in 5 or 6th grade. Also, the lore is super messed up imo. Not a fan of the babyification of all the sins and hellborn
Bluey (kids show) itself is more mature than the Hellaverse. Because it handles serious topics much more effectively than the two shows. An adult show doesn't need 100+ swear words / episode, it just needs to be more serious in the writing, which failed miserably. Like, you cannot tell me that Stolitz and HuskerDust aren't on the same level of Valentino x Angel Dust, because they ARE.
After seeing mouthwashing, nowadays I think about the comparison of Charlie and curly trying to see the good in people can become a downfall for them and it’s somehow horrifying to think about this kind of trope but both of them are different, Charlie is naive and is the ruler where literal criminals get placed in because of their actions but curly on the other hand knows a “friend” his entire life but he let his guard down and his fate is what lead by not taking the responsibility of seeing an actual person who is a horrible person (it’s j*mmy) and curly get his skin burned off and in constant pain and he is the only one who remains alive and he wasn’t the hero for not seeing through the truth of the event that happens with everyone on the space ship and J*mmy never taking accountability of his actions, a naive character can be difficult to right but making one that’s more fleshed out like curly can be a good example of making one rather than Charlie morning star, she didn’t want believe that LITERAL sinners don’t deserve hell, it’s just somehow annoying and poor writing of a character (Sorry about the rant with characters, i just feel annoyed by Charlie or the entire plot of hazbin hotel now)
This is a pretty good comparison, both characters I think are supposed to be the light for the cast. The shinning leader that keeps everyone afloat. And while Hazbin Hotel seems to follow that path down to the letter- I think Mouthwash does it so well by pointing out what exactly is wrong by being that type of person. By trying to see the best in people who clearly take advantage of others, by being the enabler for people who clearly won’t change or “take responsibility” you become part of the problem.
Their morals are very similar, it's just the type of character that makes it different. Being a naive doesn't mean being weak, you can be ignorant but not stupid.
Vivziepop is trying to go for a much mature audience but the humor is like middle schooler audience level and joke wise . And the fans always excuse the characters they like but won't excuse everyone else is kinda backwards thinking, like if you're not going to excuse a character you don't like don't excuse those you like. Also I hate the r@pe/sa jokes like those jokes are not funny which make angelhusk a bad ship like angel doesn't liked what valentino did to him, but yet he does it to husk like that relationship isn't healthy.
middle school humor isss crazyyyyyy when i was in middle i didnt know half the stuff the show was talking about maybe its todays kid middle schoolers that get it idk lol
@destructivelemon67 Bruh that's funny, but yeah and everyone think vivzipop is a good person it's like they forgot all the things she did and her behavior on the Twitter platform or how she treats sa victims and trans people. She fucks over everyone, and people will defend her with their last breath.
Well tbh although I left the fandom I just excuse them because I hate that fact that show i LOVED turned out to be hated by everyone it’s my personal experience but still ofc I’m gonna excuse it so I can cover up the bad writing because I just want it to be good so I can be happy! And not hate myself for liking a show everyone else fucking hates because it’s probably the most poorly written thing on the planet I don’t thinks it even worth redemption and that’s the whole fucking point what a nightmare
@Xheart817 I mean, I understand what you're saying. We all probably have a character from the show we like, but we wished they were written better or at least the show was a bit better written. But with vivizpop's shitty writing and even more shitty personality, idk how long the show will last.
Another thing I don’t like is how Charlie is a 200+ year old demon and she acts really young. I don’t accept “she would be 16 in human years” as an argument because she’s treated as an adult, but acts like a younger teenager I also don’t like how the gay characters are written either. Charlie and Vaggie look like two best friends, Angel Dust harasses Husk 24/7 yet we’re supposed to root for them, Blitzo and Stolas are straight up toxic on both ends, Ozzie and Fizzarolli are written as an UwU gay couple, etc
@@ZephyrLucki Yes, but I do unironically love Fizz and Ozzy. I just can’t help it, not cause they’re gay, cause Ozz so genuinely cares about Fizz, even if that love is expressed in possessive ways. Those are themes that could be explored and overcome and they could become a stronger couple as a result.
THE ONLY CHARCTER that didn’t deserve to be in hell was vaggie. She was kicked out of heaven for not killing a child. Even if the child was a sinner. I don’t like the writing at all but I like Rosie Sometimes I wish to rewrite the whole thing
@@my-nostalgia-is-horror obviously, don't do it if you feel forced to!!! But yeah, it would honestly be refreshing reading something about HB that actually makes sense 😭
Omg pls rewrite it I would totally read it! Also how come every fandom I get into is a show that I liked at first, but then I realized it needs to be rewritten 😭😭😭
16:34 definitely don’t understand hazbin fans that trash on Steven’s character as childish and naive when charlie is frankly worse than him on that regard and has little to no consequences from her choices (hell the story is terrified to have her actually have substantive choices to make!)
I actually thought about Steven and Charlie. They both seem to have gotten similar criticisms towards their charcters. I will say that Steven seems to be better at the therapy thing than Charlie.....and he's a CHILD with no experience.
Imagine comparing a grown ass, several-hundred year old woman to a sheltered and arguably neglected child SU has its issues but Steven was NEVER one of them lol
She has consequences though like did episode 4 just not exist? (not really she makes substantive choices, again episode 4 but also episodes 5 and 6.) And honestly both Steven and Charlie are overhated at times hell Hazbin in ways feels like Steven Universe including some of the absurd hate they get.
writing a story about wrongful/unfair punishment taking place in hell becomes a whole lot harder when you become overly-emotionally attached to your characters and then just completely forget that the point of having the setting of the afterlife is that WHO THEY WERE IN LIFE *MATTERS*
Hazbin hotel is written like a fanfiction or a story based around someones oc in irder to give them "cool edgy moments" and the show spends more time desperately attempting to get the audience to go, "Wooooooow, this moment is so serious and intense!" But when you do that EVERY episode, it loses the charm and comes across as kindaaaa cringe. Remember how big of a phenomenon Sans was? And how he had a shit ton of aus ab him solely bc of that one moment in the game where sans is actually taken srsly? The reason it was such a big deal at the time is bc sans spends THE ENTIRE GAME being seen as lazy and apathetic. He had to EARN the genocide route "wooooow" moment. In all the fan media, sans' character was warped severly bc ppl didnt look at sans as a whole anymore, JUST the genocide route boss fight. Hazbin hotel is written like those undertale fanon comics. Vivziepop writes like a highschool oc creator who spends more time writing cool epic scenes for these characters than actually fleshing them out enough for them to have to earn those moments. Ive been a big fan of vivzie for a long time and i think that has a lot to do w my dissapointment in her shows. Her writing hasnt rlly improved all that much from zoophobia. If she actually listened to critism or, better yet, had LESS control over the writing in her shows, they would be better. Its like how all dogs go to heaven bombed bc don bluth had full creative control and put ALL his ideas in. Less is more and show dont tell are 2 principles that vivziepop fundamentally doesnt understand.
To continue my little rant, yk someone who's actually GREAT at writing dark and serious moments into comedys while still maintaining the comedic aspect of the show? Brandon Rodgers. While this is more ab helluva boss at this point, he actually knows how to write jokes and it's painfully obv when vivziepop writes them instead of him. If he had more creative control over the show, helluvaboss would be improved dramatically
I wish I could give you a high-five, your points are exactly what I was feeling but couldn’t summarize in words. Nothing is earned! If everything is edgy and cool, nothing is
21:33 I HAVE A HOTTTTT OPINION HERE. that argument is NOT accurate. the designs arent animator friendly, they are dumbed down! We can use Vivziepops old works, backgrounds and even how shes shown effects in both her current works to work out that she CAN do detailed works but chooses not to, for undisclosed reasons or laziness, thats up for debate.. but, people use this argument, as if there's not so many references we can use to disprove it, because whilst Viv does make her designs slightly animator friendly, it isnt her full potentional on display, a heavy con in her works and a thing that pulls her out. She's fully able to do amazing character designs, with details and a lot of "sparkle", we can use more of her works to example; Beelzebub from HB, somewhat complex design, but its clear she's not "animator friendly" due to her abdomen design being essentially glowing liquid. of course you can pull so many other characters in, like Ozzie and/or Stolas, specifically when using their respective powers/abilities, theyre also not traditionally animator friendly either. also the background works, whilst not being exactly fair to use, are also very complex and do not folow the typical rule Vivs style follows: simple, specific and stylized, theyre detailed, complex and follow fewer rules(like no direct outlines) sidenote, its not only vivzie who has this issue, many others also suffer this problem, but vivzie is the main argument in this
The animation seemed so alive, and the characters were (mostly) less annoying and corny then. Sure, there were way too many sound effects, but I'll take that over a bad story.
Hazbin Hotel itself seems strangely naive at best, it wants to tackle themes like morality and redemption, yet it shows these themes in a way where it only morality as a close minded black and white concept. The heaven and hell setting can work for the themes Hazbin was going for as there are many examples these kind of themes can work in a setting based on christianity (An example would be Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame as a character) but in order to do that is to be a writer who can tackle these themes within that kind of setting beautifully, and Vivzie and the other writers of the show are just not those kinds of writers.
I do like Hazbin but I’m very upset the original premise of using the hotel to redeem sinners to deal with the overpopulation problem as an alternative to the exterminations got pushed to the background in favor of this heaven vs hell plot. All the “redemption” happened off screen!! I’m also upset that Viv focused more on developing the fan favorite characters more than the MAIN CHARACTER, I love Charlie but she is so underdeveloped compared to AngelDust etc Also I feel like the characters had better characterization in the pilot, or at least Angel did, like pilot Angel I could see having the potential to be redeemed potentially, like he helped CherryBomb in a terf war sure, but he went out of his way to help his friend! Maybe not purely out of the kindness of his heart but if he didn’t care about her at all he wouldn’t have bothered. And we saw him reach out to comfort Charlie when she was disappointed her plans seemed to be falling apart but pulled back, like he felt bad!
It's funny she sets the show in Hell instead of like Limbo or Purgatory or something. The overpopulation and extermination concept just is really weird and never made sense to me. Why not something like a 'cleansing' where souls forget and get factory reset or some kind of concept with reincarnation. Make the damned souls be reborn on earth and get a chance at living a "good life", thus the consequences are higher and we don't have this weird "double death" issue.
Personally I'm fine with the heaven vs hell coming eventually, but it happened wayyyy too soon. Like the big battle feels like it should've been the finale for season 3 or 4, season 2 at the very least. They obviously didn't have time to develop and build up to it so they should've scaled back the story.
@ honestly I agree…it happened wayyy too early! Like I get it if they weren’t sure if they’d get renewed for another season but with how few episodes they had they should have focused on the important parts of the story and characters. Like I swear, if season two actually focuses on the hotel and redemption I’m watching the show in the wrong order. To be completely honest the whole season felt like they smooshed two half’s of two seasons together, obviously there’s the big pacing issue. I wouldn’t have minded the finally if the pacing was slower cause certain arcs felt so unearned! Like I’m sorry but Charlie’s daddy issues felt like something that could have been dragged out to at least two or three episodes. Also I love Lucifer but how the hell did he cause her daddy issues in the first place?! At least in the pilot even though we never saw him it was believable somewhat. Like I wasn’t expecting him to be abusive obviously but he obviously didn’t believe in her cause for whatever reason. Honestly I was kinda expecting a similar dynamic to Mal and Hades from Descendants 3
Im gonna sort of repeat a point made by a video I watched a couple years back because I think it still stands but Angel Dust SHOULD have been the main protagonist of the show. He was the character that the audience would root for even if he was still raunchy and said a lot of swears and sex jokes. And besides that, when I think of Hazbin Hotel the first character that comes to mind IS Angel Dust, he was the character that I've seen old animatics of by Vivzi and Michael Kovach bantering with people as Angel during Hunicast and Ashely Nichols' streams gave him so much charm and heart that I was hoping that same energy would translate well in the final product.
18:56 ok ok this reminded me a lot of the Natlan war in the most recent arc in genshin impact Hazbin’s “war” is something that was kinda highly anticipated, and in the end it only affected the main characters, when it was supposed to affect a whole ass world of ppl right? While the Natlan war was something we were aware could happen, but when it did it was a shock and the cruel detail of having a literal screen with the number of deaths and seeing corpses during the war when trying to help people and seeing the actual npcs that don’t have ANY story relevance just not be there after the war hurt a lot. It’s clear that it did affect everyone, not just the mcs
Yessss!!!! I was SO stressed and distraught during that arc! It depicted how bad the war was for the whole nation pretty well. Also fighting alongside the characters and then later seeing their corpses was… rough, but good writing
I think this is why I can't get into HH and HB, i feel like their trying too hard to be a "show for adults" the script writing feels like something I'd make when i was a teen trying to fit in with the cool and older teens😭
Basically the show wanting to tackle mature and nuanced themes, but nobody on the team has the actual maturity for it Of course there's other things that contribute to the bad quality, such as wasting too much on things that are unnecessary to the plot, and just are here because would be cool, big build up with small pay off, doing things like making characters spell out their traits, instead of letting the audience pick by themselves, arcs and bonds can feel shallow given how they are usually very rushed
It feels like nobody has thepatience for the set up and pay-off for these mature emotional scenes. We see time and time again bum-rushed problems thrown into the mix and lightning quick reactions. Which leaves these pivotal moments feeling hollow. It's just BOOM sudden drama - BOOM character angry - BOOM crying scene. Vivzie rather seems to want to focus on raunchy jokes and slapstick or callbacks to other shows instead of writing her characters with any depth.
I mean no they did do that, they showed the nuance of Heaven for example, people miss that though and say it's saying that all of Heaven is bad when that's not what it's actually saying. I mean...the characters still do show their traits too. Arcs and bonds aren't all very rushed and still feel genuine. Not all of the arcs are finished either.
@@Jdudec367 dude maybe stop commenting under numerous critic videos on something you like and let people have their opinions in peace? Are you chronically online or something?
@@Jdudec367 PFFFT if you're not respecting opinions of other people and push only your POV then nobody will respect yours either Ever wondered why your comments are often ignored or/and never liked?
My main criticism for the show is kinda nitpicky so just take this with a pinch of salt: The show’s premise calls for a more focused and literary style in my opinion. Think about it, the princess of hell is trying to save the souls of sinners through a hotel all the while the looming threat of an angelic extermination haunts the narrative. It sounds almost “Good Place” like. Where the show would criticize Christianity and bring up interesting topics through characters. And it really seemed like it was going to do this in the pilot- the cast fits perfectly for it. Unfortunately due to the short episode count the show couldn’t really do that. Instead it seems to pander into fandom culture- which would be perfectly fine except that when it does have the chance to bring up an interesting topic or discussion it doesn’t drop that attitude. This- again, in my opinion- gives it a kinda immature tone to the serious and somewhat interesting topics they touch on. I love the show, the art, the characters, all that- but the writing is mediocre and while I will always credit Vivzipop for inspiring me I can’t honestly say Hazbin Hotel is my favorite.
I was hoping for a very episodic format with each episode doing a very deep dive into one sinner, exploring many moral complexities of their situation, perhaps with Charlie and Alastor acting as the voices of their consciences and darkest desires, then ending with the focus sinner choosing Charlie's way or Alastor's way or perhaps finding some interesting compromise. Ultimately, after like maybe a dozen episodes, certain sinners could become recurring characters and an overarching plot could begin to take shape. Basically I wanted _The Great Divorce_, but more dramatized and character-focused. I'm a smidge disappointed. Episode 4 seems to be the only one that's even close to what I wanted, and I'm scared to try and watch it.
Nah, it could have definitely gone that route, it'd just need a tight script. I just don't think they were commited to that route and didn't know where to place their focus.
Hazbin Hotel feels like if you took a bunch of edgy newground animators from the late-2000s/early-2010s, putting them in a room to make a cartoon in under 6 months, and letting them to do whatever they want without proper test audiences or critiques or discussions whatsoever. I do love Hazbin Hotel for its certain qualities, so I hope that the later seasons can resolve some of these issues, lol.
If Viv doesn't bother searching from the Bible or other Christian side books and search Google for more information (which all can be done by flipping pages and typing on gadgets), then why bother make something out of it??? Yes, you could just make your own version of things (like a fan fiction), but not everything should be changed or twisted. If you can't do something yourself, get an ACTUAL GOOD references! Religion is a complex thing if you go very deep into it, especially for things like Heaven and Hell. It would be so much easier for Viv if she just made HH took place in a fantasy world; angels and demons could be any fantasy beings. Viv also could make up pretty much everything.
20:04 people wanna blame the fandom for vivs , poorly written, female characters even though she wrote those characters without the fandom influencing her because they say that there’s weirdos online that can’t handle complex female characters well, OK but I don’t find any any of vivs male characters that complex
13:55 honestly it could work if they actually looked at bibble ane saw that people can go to hell, over minor and harmless things, like being on the other religion, not believing in god, being lgbt, etc. And what also doesn't make the redemption work on Hazbin hotel is the fact that we see sinners trying to redeem themselves from what they did on hell, not for the things they did on earth
@sOWAcREAM2763 i dint notice since English isn't my first language lol, but i will leave on this way because i kinda don't like when my comment has "edited" on it
hi! Christian here- being LGBT in many Protestant denominations is not a one-way ticket to hell! It is perfectly fine to be Christian and LGBT (I am, technically). While many sects of the Christian church see acting on LGBTQ+ "temptations" as adultery, not all do. Either way, God is loving and forgiving!!! :3 I'm not trying to push my religion onto you, just trying to educate!
Charlie act like a child & is oblivious most of the time. She didn't notice angel being upset when she praised sir P. She caused the studio to burn down, ignored angel dust's wishes & started the awful sobbing & apology. She is the most privileged being in all of creation & have no clue on how humans work so she behave like a daycare attendant instead of you know... actually listening to her friends? Like steven? What baffles me is how nothing of a present she is. She failed to convince adam & got kicked out. She failed to prove her point in courts & she got her ass kicked until daddy saved her from adam for the 3rd time he got her out of trouble first when hellborns were excluded from extermination second is when she met up with heaven's higher ups third is when lucifer got rid of adam for her & nifty killed adam which means the main character of the show is not only a manic pixie dream girl but she's also a character that is prevented from having any consequences or think & reflect about anything really not to mention how her plan makes no sense yet the show tries to gaslight us into believing that she earned it via sir pentious ascension to heaven. Charlie just invited him & never interacted with him afterwards in any meaningful way that she even ignored him when she presented angel dust as an example of souls path to redemption instead of sir pentious who actually wanted to change & showed selflessness from the get go.
11:52 A big part of why Bojack worked compared to Hazbin Hotel as well is because the first season was dedicated to the basic set-up of the characters. We learn that Bojack is a wash-up actor looking for his next hit in either fame or drugs, Diane wants to do something important, Princess Carolyn is a fixer and stuck in a loveless relationship because of this. That was the starting point for the writers to dive into the specific plot lines we saw follow them throughout the show. Hazbin put the cart before the horse (pun intended) and did the plot first without really diving into what aspects of the character (beyond the much better written pilot) make them WANT to do what they do. A prime example of this is Lucifer and Charlie’s relationship. We know Charlie is avoidant to getting his help, and we’re told that it’s because he’s patronizing, but what was the incident that made her realize that he was a lost cause? What made Lucifer turn away from sinners when he MARRIED one??? These are basic motivations for the conflict between them but before we get those revealed, the conflict is fixed??? I can’t entirely blame the pacing of the show because these are the basics of writing. So many confusing decisions made with the story and I still question why they *needed* to confront Heaven in this season instead of letting it be an overarching plot
Ngl I was disappointed with how it turned out, waiting 4 years for it and watching it as it came out. It felt tacky and I wanted to see more of Charlie x Vaggie ngl because of how she portrays the other ships in Helluva Boss. Vaggie's whole personality being Charlie's lover and you can barely see their love is kinda sad
i think the biggest issue vivzie has for her show is she doesnt know how to do the "kill your darlings". she wants each and every idea crammed into her show and refuses to actually rework it to make ideas fit. she never would have redeisgned charlie to be a better 'innocent' character (in both personality and actual lore making sense) becuase she doesnt know how to tell a story properly. look at her old zoophobia comic, its a hot mess
@astarteswillum5259 I mean, at least they gay men written by Vivzie seem to have actual personalities instead of only existing as the friend, spouse, or enemy of another character.
I totally agree with everything said here. honestly, it feels like an attempt at being a character driven show, while have a super heavy plot, and having a bunch of fun villains on the side that are there for the laughs, while also having some serious moments. now, this can be done! it has been done many a times. but with the medium shes doing it in (Tv show), she needs to understand how IMPORTANT it is to fully develop your cast. Its worst with charlie, so thats who I'll use as an example: what are we TOLD about charlie?: she has daddy issues. she is a great leader and is genuinely helping sinners shes naive shes a woman in a happy saphic realationship shes a really moral character she is connected to everyone around her meaninfully she is brave she is ambitious now this is what we are SHOWN: her having actually a pretty good relationship with her father her doing two activities (that dont work) with a few sinners, then them magically becoming more moral she is shown to be naive we see her kiss vaggie meaningfully once. and there is almost never romantic tension. (no highs and lows really) she is shown to be moral, but in a way that is so naive it actually hurts for a grown ass woman to be acting like this we are shown that she has a few activities, and talks. but then it's all-time skips we dont get to see. she is brave, but not in a way that she glorified. she is brave in a way that is not beneficial to the whole (foolish) she IS ambitious, but we are not shown different avenues of that ambition. in conclusion, we are not shown a lot of her attributes. and mainly just told. I have so so so so so many other critiques of this show, but I dont want this comment to get to long. also, I actually love this show. thats part of the reason Im so pissed about it. the characters are very fun (although not very well written), and the plot and songs are fun and really entertaining! but from a writing standpoint it is just a HOT MESS.
I was only really a Hazbin fan for a little after the pilot came out, I feel like the redemption plotline could have worked IF that's what they chose to lean into (and if the characters were a little more morally grey). I love the idea of trying to redeem people that seem like a lost cause and it could be such an interesting plot for a show! I'm a little sad they didn't go for that.
I feel the show would have been so, so much better if Vivzie read up on the actual moral implications of rehabilitive justice and the different arguments for and against it. Shows that are not set within a reality like our own become more interesting when you refer to ethical, moral, and philosophical ideas and debates that do exist within our own world. Things like, is murder ever justified? Can an abuser be redeemed and allowed to re-enter society? What happens when a child abuses or even kills another child, what should be done about the offending child? Those ideas, the debates and different view points surrounding them, could have been brought into the actual storyline of Hazbin, real ideas could have been explored in a mature way, and the show would have more substance due to it. Instead, the story brushes those moral complexities under the rug in an attempt to avoid conflict within fandom and to go with the safest possible storytelling options available.
I love the concept of Hazbin Hotel, and dont get me wrong, I enjoyed watching it when it released. But good GRIEF this show needs work!!! It needs a whole new team of writers, and honestly I don't think Vivziepop is really any good at writing. Her writing regarding female characters and POC characters is downright abysmal, every single time in both Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel the males always outshine the female characters because they NEVER get any writing, and LITERALLY Brandon had to step in just to give Millie any semblance of character development. And don't get me started on the villains, why, for the love of god, do they have to be so one dimensional?? Adam, Stella, Mammon,Striker, they're JUST bad, thats their ONLY character trait. And not every villain has to be this complex character, but its the fact its literally almost every single antagonist. Adam could've been SO MUCH COOLER if he got development and given a personality trait other than "complete asshole", and it just doesnt make sense when he dies and smiles at lute and theres this whole emotional moment, because theres just NOTHING there. Im holding out hope that Sera will change things. Hazbin Hotel feels like a bunch of kids pretending to be adults. It doesnt feel like an adult show, because no one working on it has the maturity of one!!! And, it literally feels like they don't even target adults, it honestly feels like their target audience is YOUNGER teens (which is a little weird to say the least).
It could be improved but it doesn't need a whole new team of writers and eh Viv is good at writing tbh. Her writing egarding female characters and POC characters isn't that bad or is abysmal. No the males don't alwayss outshine the female characters and they do get writing, No Millie getting character development is because of Viv too. The villians aren't all one dimensional. Eh no Adam is lazy and egotistical and kind of a surfer bro too and is sexist too, Stella feels like Stolas hurt her reputation so yeah it makes sense that she would do that and she was put in a forced marriage too, Mammon is a slob too and is greedier then anyone else and he knows how to do business too and has a sense of humour, Striker hates demon royalty and wants them dead, so no they aren't just bad they have other character trais too. It's not every antagonist though. I mean he was, he likes to have fun and have a laugh even if he is a jerk, that does make sennse as they got along pretty well and cleary had a strong bond together, no there is something there. I disagree it feels like an adult show tbh and the people working on it have the maturity of one. Nah it feels like they target adults tbh.
The fact that viv can't even write black characters like husk well is concerning. The opening episode of the story explaining how hell was made seems to be a lie, not mentioning that adam even ate the forbidden fruit, so is that why adam is in heaven? And where is eve? The missing information is not good plot wise.
@@tylergood3773 oh no dont get me wrong i think the writing is cheeks, i found more nuance through watching moral orel. Good watch if you havent seen it
@@wxrd6n I still think it’s important to understand the source material even when you’re going to do your things. What Vivziepop is doing is not 100% different, there are still names and elements from Christianity, but I feel like she didn’t do as much research as she should for her worldbuilding.
honestly I think they just wanted to animate the good place but then didn't realize what made the good place an actually good show i do think that commentary about how unfair it is to punish people infinitely for finite sin is a good thing to mention in a show about the afterlife, but the way that hazbin does it makes me not take it seriously especially with how they forcefully try to make you hate heaven with borderline charicatures of Christians and religious people, and also how they make Adam feel like. not at all real. and I've dealt with people "like him before", especially with my old supervisor but the thing is that he was a real annoying ass person and Adam felt forced. also it feels like hell's people are meant to be forgiven for what they've done despite how horrible they are, when the point of redemption isn't to forgive but to change. mha does a great job at writing about redemption, atonement, and forgiveness with two very prominent characters on top of that I actively dislike any conversation that is only ever sexual, it makes interacting with those types of people incredibly grating and it makes me tired and uncomfortable so seeing how hazbin just does not fucking stop with the sex jokes was a hard no for me. and I know that people are alright with this but I specifically didn't like that even if I make a few, very few sex jokes from time to time one more thing to add, a hateful religious fictional character who blames other characters and "sinning" on everyone else but himself is frollo and he's so much more chilling and appealing as a written character than Adam (and heaven) ever was. he genuinely believed he was in the right for his religious belief because he wasn't "like those people" that he looked down upon, and like Adam UGH Adam didn't fucking feel religious to me he just felt like a normal asshole dude you'd find in a Wattpad fanfic who'd like be harassing the main girl before her love interest came in and punched the living shit out of him. and I HATTEEED that as someone who eats up religious figures who try to justify their actions with religion (my current favorite character is Sunday from HSR as an example)
Another issue I have with the HH and HB lore is the setting. I mean, if Hell is no different to a paradise for sinners based on the way people in actually make themselves at home there, then why would they want redemption? If Hell in VivziPop’s world is basically a paradise for sinners to continue to live out their darkest and depraved fantasies then they shouldn’t care about redemption and going to Heaven. So why have this? The only thing I can see why they would want to leave Hell is the annual extermination, but you could argue that, if they’re smart enough, a sinner could avoid it and continue to live on for eternity. So overall, making Hell look like Chicago but as a sinners’ paradise is a really bad move.
13:46 when u talked about the heaven and hell and its morality testing it reminded me of The Good Place which executes this idea greatly, becuz (SPOILERS OF THE GOOD PLACE) the "heaven" is really restrictive of its testing system due to the complexity of modern society, and those systems lacked nuance, resulting in no one getting into heaven for YEARS
Honestly, the whole concept of just 'Heaven vs Hell' or 'Maybe Heaven is as bad as Hell' are amazing when done correctly. Like, Good Omens does the oncept so much better by actually showing the way heaven convinces angels that hell is just evil through Aziraphale and Crowley's relationship and how even though they love each other, Aziraphale still has a viewpoint that has been fed to him by heaven. And, I'd like to compare Vaggie and Crowley since they're both fallen angels. Thing is, we actually get to see Crowley's disdain for heaven's way of handling things while also disliking hell's working system. He actually feels like a character who has seen with his own eyes what heaven is willing to do to 'follow God's plan'. He knows stuff about angels still, unlike Vaggie who literally never even tried to see if angels could ever be harmed in her whole time being in hell.
(This is gonna be a long comment, apologies to anyone who doesn't feel like reading) I am also biased towards the show, and I still love it for what it is. (probably because I consider myself easy to please) But if I were to state some criticisms about the show itself and how I would fix them, it would be the following: 1. Even if the episode format can't be changed from 8 episodes per season, change the plot to something that won't feel so rushed by the season finale. I've seen some people say that the war with Heaven plot should have been saved for a later season and I agree with them. If I were to write the show I'd use the first two seasons to establish the characters and their relationships and plan out how Charlie is going to go about redeeming these sinners. Then amp up the threat level every season to give the cast some sort of obstacle to overcome to reach the overarching goal. Once we reach the final episode of maybe season 4 or season 5, THEN introduce Heaven as the antagonists. (and maybe make it a two-season arc so the episode count doesn't still nerf the pacing) This change can even properly set up the Vees as antagonists and still have them be the main villains of season 2. 2. Establish some proper worldbuilding. There are some lore details left out of the show that only fans are aware of, and this can end up leaving casual watchers confused. This is obviously not good, especially for a show that wants to have lore tied into the story like Hazbin does. I don't wanna take an example from a horrible person to make my point, but a piece of advice given by the infamous Lily Orchard goes as follows: "Twitter is not an appropriate place to reveal story details. The appropriate place is in the work itself." The only reason the fans know so much about the show is because Viv has revealed so much stuff before its release. Plus there's stuff in the original pilot that still relates to the main show that people are unaware of because who the hell is gonna go searching for a UA-cam video to find out why Alastor is working at the Hotel or even who Cherri Bomb is? A few critics on UA-cam have said that watching the pilot answered some questions they had and fleshed out the characters a little more than the series proper. So, easy fix for it: Make the first episode of the series a remake of the pilot to explain some of the character motivations and put important information about the world IN THE EPISODES THEMSELVES. 3. I know some of y'all have been waiting for this one and it's been said a million times, but I also share this issue. Make more diverse character designs. The colors and character shapes obviously aren't as diverse as Viv and many others think they are. I feel like this mostly applies to Hazbin since the characters in Helluva, while most of them are still built like sticks, do have more diverse color palettes than the Hazbin cast. And I personally think the issue with the red isn't exactly that it's in all of the characters' color palettes, but that every character is the exact same SHADE of red. You can definitely still use a limited color palette without making every character the same exact color. There's also the issue of the characters not looking like what they're supposed to be. One example is how you can tell Valentino is meant to be a moth but that same moth theme is pretty much lost with Vaggie, even with the change to her hair. Another is how you can't tell what Angel Dust and Niffty are supposed to be unless you look it up or you're told by someone who's followed these characters for a long time. (hell, Viv did say Niffty is a bug, but she never even specified what kind of bug she is) Small things can just be added to better get the character's themes across. Make Angel look more like a spider, give Vaggie more moth theming (and maybe more muscles to hint at her past as an exterminator), or even give Husk a beer gut. As an artist myself, I wanna tackle redesigning this cast as a practice for making good character designs, I just need to get all of my thoughts down properly before I do anything first. I do love Vivzie's shows and at times I may come off as a superfan who doesn't want them to change, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. The rose colored glasses came off once Hazbin season 1 ended and while I am pretty okay with what we got, I really want to see these shows improve for the better, however long that ends up taking.
I also wanna mention this other thing since the comment was getting long enough as it was. My main hangup about Hazbin/Helluva isn't necessarily about the characters or writing (even though I have stated my problems with those above), but the fandom and how it's been contributing to the show's terrible reputation. On one side of things, there’s the stans backing every decision Viv and her team make on the shows, whether they’re good or bad, which leads to people outside of the fandom looking in believing everyone who likes the shows supports the bad things being portrayed within them, which is very much not the case depending on where you look. On the other side, there’s the hatedom trying to bash everyone who even takes a glance at these shows. They stir up needless drama almost every day and are probably just as bad if not worse than the stans. They make me afraid that I'm gonna open my social media to a video of animals getting blended just because I drew a Hazbin character or had something nice to say about the show. Then there’s the large amounts of little kids coming into the fandom. I firmly believe they’re only here because their parents don’t pay attention to what their kids watch or even put it on because it’s animated. But that doesn’t excuse how dangerous it is for these kids to be in this fandom. They can’t comprehend what’s being discussed in these shows and being exposed to it at such a young age could end up damaging how they process the world growing up. I won’t blame Viv for the influx of kids in the fandom because I don’t think she has any control over it, but this is very concerning. So with this said, I’m not only hoping for the shows to get better, but the fandom as well. If I were to take a guess, I’d say by some miracle, the shows will improve before the fandom does, but I’m just trying to stay positive in such a hate-filled community.
Despite any hate Midoriya (or deku idk which is known more) gets as a character he is still way more dynamic and has more impact than Charlie could ever hope to be or have
As a Hazbin fan, don’t let the crazies get to ya. You’re probably gonna get a lot of hate comments for this, so just fair warning. The fandom is crazy unfortunately. Stay safe. ❤
Yeah the person that made this is not wrong. Hazbin Hotel is honestly a bad show and I don't mean any hate, like people can still watch it and I don't judge them.
Can I just say how happy it makes me to hear someone talk about Moral Orel? Its an incredible show with amazing characters that no one really talks about (Forever salty adult swim cancelled it for having a genuine depection of the effects of SA)
(Writing before watching the vid) I think it’s worse in comparison because the character design is sub-par and the writing is juvenile. Everyone looks the same and they get lost in their own scenes. The artistic direction is interesting but unrefined and are very close to their original tumblr 2010 style. The dialogue and story beats are rapid, shallow, and inconsistent. The cast is overly full of filler characters and there are issues with set up and pay off.
I haven't watched the show yet, but I never really liked Charlie's design, she looks like a literal clown. Idk if that was the intention but it just looks goofy to me
The biggest reason why the show is SO MUCH MORE DIFFERENT than the pilot (which btw I enjoyed more than the actual show) is becaue 90% OF THE ORIGINAL CAST FROM THE PILOT werent included in the making of the show 😿😿
off theme, but i am so glad to hear someone else struggle with stuttering, since i’ve always felt like noone else around me has the similar problem😭 i hope that this doesnt sound weird
Nifty is supposed to be the comedic relief and holy crap did they do her dirty 😭 Comparing her to Todd Chavez, who is also comedic relief, Todd is so much more interesting. In the first season, they present him as someone who can do more, his opportunities are just often ruined by Bojack/self sabotage. He’d aware that Bojack is not a good person but stays anyway since he’s rarely ever forced to get a job or do something productive, as well as him sort of getting used to it even if it really hurts him. He’s self aware but does nothing about it. AND THAT WAS JUST IN THE FIRST SEASON ALONE, NOT EVEN MENTIONING HIM IN THE REST OF THE SERIES. Compare all that to Nifty and how she’s presented in the first season… yeah, exactly
@@Jdudec367 it’s the fact that those are her only character traits… at all of Nifftys, and you can’t use the excuse of “it’s only been one season” because Bojack did the same thing and had done it WAY better
@@ToothDecay1965 Her being a cleaning perfectionist and being guy crazy are traist too though, so,,,yeah. Plus do they have the same role? Nifty is one main character but is Todd a deuteragonist? Because if so then that would mean he has a bigger role.
@@Jdudec367 again… those are her only character traits, and their often played up for laughs. At NO point was I ever emotionally invested in Nifty’s character unlike Todd. They both are comedic reliefs in a dark gritty show that are part of the main cast. Todd had some good engaging moments that make him more believable and interesting for the audience … unlike Nifty
@@ToothDecay1965 Multiple traist and ones you still ignored. Well ok...I mean in episode 6 of Hazbin I was emotionally investe in her at that point tbh. I mean she had some moments like that too but probably not as much although then again Hazbin has more main characters to focus on and Nifty isn't even the only comedic main character.
Moral Orel perfected its use of dark humor along with its dark moments. From the beginning, you can just tell how unsettling the townspeople are, because of the humor. The way Orel takes everything so seriously, he sells his own pee, impregnated his whole town, outlawed eggs. It’s funny because of how naive he acts toward such serious matters. The episode about the women of the town having such tragic stories. It shows us why those characters are such goofy buttheads. But it takes the situation seriously by putting you in their shoes. I love vivzies work, but she doesn’t know how to write a comedic yet serious story. But in general, I don’t think any adult comedy could live up to moral Orel.
Hazbin and Helluva aren't even adult at this point, just explicit; I haven't ever met somebody over the age of eighteen who takes an interest in them unless they've directly worked on the show. All of the characters are cardboard cutouts of tired tropes without much exploration or explanation. The worldbuilding people praise Vivziepop for is incomplete at best (what are the actual relationships between different classes of people? We see characters like Blitzo face harassment and judgement for being an imp, but... what does that even entail? Lucifer isn't ever a focus, and Charlie certainly doesn't have any real power in hell despite being a princess---are there actual laws in hell? Who is in power here? The rings of hell are briefly mentioned, but unless you've done actual lore-digging, there's nothing in either of the shows to actually explain them, their leaders... I was too distracted trying to figure out what the hell was going on and why there was suddenly a metaphor for the radicalized lower class trying to assassinate Stolas?? But then Striker calls him and Blitz "superior to other imps" so is it some kind of caste or specific race??? The wiki says that Blitzo considers striker an "obsessive supremacist against royalty", so does he believe that imps are better? While also looking down on other imps? Sure.), and a complete mangling of the setting of hell at worst (Dw guys, the sins are edgy!! But not TOO edgy. Because we wouldn't want them to be evil or anything ahaha. Asmodeus is great.) The themes and dynamics all seem to be grasping at aesthetics more than anything---they want to appear as a deep, worthwhile show, analyzing these poor, deep, tortured protagonists, but... it's just nothing new or interesting. Half of the scenes feel like they've been ripped off those "POV: The her walks away smirking.... but the villain slyly smiles and pulls out a GUN!!!!!" tiktok videos, and the other half seem like they'd fit into a Wattpad mafia AU or the cursed, erratic writing warm up bit that me and some middle schoolers have kept up for too long. Perhaps I just haven't been on this side of the internet this long, but nothing Vivziepop makes seems unique like people claim it is---her artstyle, while fun and vibrant and obviously very good, is rather run of the mill considering the "edgy alt artist" side of the internet, despite how many fans claim it's groundbreaking. Her characters often seem a step away from the "∑ario" meme, and it's so, so glaringly obvious from how she writes characters like Millie that she relies on traumatic backstories in place of actual depth and thought. It's just disappointing, seeing as how she has ample opportunity to improve with how many people are willing to support her and give her advice, yet her writing doesn't seem to get better---and considering how she's handled criticism in the past, it's doubtful it will anytime soon. I don't know. Cool video essay, though!! Quick edit: I did some more research and apparently most of the questions about imps and demon royalty were answered in some of the more recent Helluva Boss episodes that I haven't watched yet. Glad they're actually answering some questions in-show, but... did it really take Vivziepop 19 episodes and an entirely other show to introduce that? And of course the weird-ass discussion of class relationships and power dynamics in Stolas x Blitzo is a whole other can of worms 😭
The thing about my relationship with HH has been this: I used to be an avid defender when it first came out, but as I continued writing my book and fleshing out my characters and watching video essays like this, the more I looked to it as a Guide Of What Not To Do While Making A Fantasy Project. The good things I have to say is this: I love most of the music, and the concept of the characters and overall story. However, looking back, it did fall super flat.
Its visually pleasing, the animation is pretty good, but that doesn't shy it away from criticism to its horrible writing Considering the hype/wait it was disappointing.
Because it's legit not an adult show, I'm literally a hardcore fan of Code Lyoko and have been since a little kid, THAT show is more for adults and even while it has some areas that are what you'd think is for younger audiences, it will treat kids like they are smart and not dumb & show doesnt use adult jokes to give the feeling it is for adults especially with XANA the villain who is way more enjoyable and a good villain & has moments that shows a sliver of goodness like willingly help the kids one time and even has after taking out the Prototype Multi-Agent System made by leader of the heroes which are kids meant to consume and destroy XANA's Monsters and XANA doesnt hesitate on giving the more annoying individual to him Odd the role of General for his Monsters in the digital world Lyoko & XANA has the Monsters once the program is gone bow to the heroes before leaving, XANAs still evil but that moment clearly shows he is able to adapt to situations and just understands when to help humans.
Also none of the characters backstories are in the actual show. I didnt even know Angel was from a crime family or Husk was in Vietnam. That information should be in the media not on the creators twitter😭 also i read lesbian into everything, and i didn’t know they were girlfriends until like episode 5 I thought vaggie just had a onesided crush at most
13:24 listening to this part reminded me of this show I watched recently, the good place, and spoilers for anyone who hasn’t watched it (which I highly recommend watching before coming across any spoilers as it does change the experience you have) In the show the main characters of the show are basically in hell and listening to this made me realise how the good place not only showed how the main characters in question were bad people in some way but also how they didn’t really deserve the punishment of they were given due to multiple reasons from unintended consequences, the settings they were raised in and even just how severe punishments were for less serious actions which really questioned what makes a person good or bad. I think this was something hazbin hotel was missing, maybe with angel dust for example it could show how since he was born into a mafia family he had no choice to do anything but participate which while shows how he has committed crimes asks if it was completely his fault or if the life he was born into limited his ability to learn how to be good.
I really wish the show wasn't targeted towards teens- even really young kids are watching it 🥲, I also started watching it when I was a teen - But now that I'm an adult , I can really see why kids like it , and I had to distence myself from the fandom becouse of how many kids are in it -
To be honest I thought it was mostly a great show except for the fact that the villains (heaven) were treated like Strawmen. I loved the dialogue, humor, music, and even the overall themes about forgiveness and redemption. But those themes could've been handled with a lot more nuance if characters like Adam and Lute were allowed to have more complex and substantial justifications for their actions than just entertainment or entitlement. I really hope the second season can add that complexity.
the only jokes to make me actually laugh at the show came from Nifty, so I was genuinely surprised when you said Adam was the funniest character. ill be so honest i haaaaate that guy lol. the show would be /significantly/ more tolerable to me if they completely removed him and changed nothing else otherwise i agree with everything else you presented, especially the part about the show's characterization compared to both adult and kids' shows. I say this as a writer, artist, and hater first and foremost, but also as someone who was lowkey obsessed with the pilot as a 13 yr old when it came out: this show objectively fumbled so many different elements---characterization, visuals, pacing, writing, plot, humor (basically everything that makes up like 90% of the show's substance, and that's to say nothing of the soundtrack, which I staunchly believe is only enjoyable in a vaccum)---that i highly doubt anybody outside of the large already-established fanbase found it enjoyable, let alone good. I'm sorry to say it's popularity was definitely Not earned
13:45 fair and heaven is not bad either. the worst they did was kill sinners once a year so that there would be no uprising but no one even knew about exterminations aside from Sera and the exorcists until Adam brought it up. (though i would say Vaggie is kinda wrongly in hell for sparing a sinner) the show is trying too hard to make heaven the bad guys even though they show us how bad the people of hell are (like Alastor, Valentino, Rosie heck even Zestial makes people off themselves when they only see him)
It fails to convey any of it's themes and messages in a consistent way. The writers are not good enough at tackling actual morality or redemption as a whole. 10 fucking writers.
Your opinion, and that’s totally fine. Just don’t be the kind of person who’s mad when someone either redesigns the characters or states their opinion :)!
Another thing with the writing is that Adam dying could've been used as a way to make him a sinner in season 2 to show him that redemption is in fact possible, but, no. Viv wouldnt do that
This is my third attempt on trying to word how I feel about Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss. So if I make a mistake, mix topics, MISSES some more explanation in my opinion or repeat things, I apologize :") As a TEENAGER, I genuinely agree with this video, HH and HB feels more like a show for teenagers instead of adults. Sure, some adults like them but it's MOSTLY teenagers, friends my age love it. And in general, the writing for both HH and HB, ALTHOUGH HB pacing is a lot better than HH, both are quite... messy... it feels more like a 2017 fanfiction sometimes. I have watched the entirely of Bojack Horseman, some clips of Rick&Morty and other adult shows and I can fully say those shows are made for adults. The story in those shows are amazing despite being comedic or stupid for a plot, but you really want to continue watching with excitement, anxiety, sadness, and whole other emotions the shows make you feel. In HH, I do feel like I kinda resonate with Angel Dust, but there is SO much hypocrisy in Angel actions and how they represents him as a character. I feel like both HH and HB can't really put out a good or accurate representations of REAL PROBLEMS. In BH, the journey with Bojack is something we're supposed to follow and feel for him, but the show CAN show us how his behaviour is NOT okay and the show actually following through with it. Bojack's actions eventually caught up to him and showed consequences. The show actually represented Bojack as he is, a Narcissist, how it isn't as simple as people see it is. However, in HH, Angel Dust consistently catcalling, harrassing his mates, and even Husk that ended up helping him. Yeah, hypersxuality is a thing, but that is NOT how it is, and that CAN be a representation of how abuse can go down to one person to another, the show doesn't SHOW that, and I feel like HH is incapable of doing that (Oh and the show also pushes it to the side as a JOKE but nearly EVERYTHING is a joke and sometimes you can't tell which one is which). There's a lot of other factors why HH and HB feels barely like an adult show or just a show at all. Edit: Before anyone tries to tell me "Oh, it's hell" for Angel's behaviour, that is BARELY an excuse, this is something I also don't like with the show, how most people tries to reason with the show taking place in hell. Both HH and HB does not have coherent world building (except the parts that are being WORKED on), and you have to watch BOTH shows to have a vision of how the world building in both shows work and that shows a LOT about the writing. I could say more but it took me 30m or so to type this all down (not counting with previous attempts) and I didn't even dive into the visuals, the pacing, and other side things that make the show... well, show. tldr: HH & HB is more for teenagers, character representations in the show are not that great, the world building are also not that great, etc. tldr whole: HH & HB has a lot of problems for it to be an adult show. note: I love HH & HB regardless but I just wish it was better kek ...also sorry for yapping ae
I'm new to the channel, but I have to say, I love your speaking style! I love that you really only have one long take, because it feels like a convo with a friend! Keep up the cool videos!
The animation in hazbin hotel is good, but the designs are so bad, literally they all mesh and blend into each other + are too over complicated (which isn't good for character design let alone an animated shows cast)
HH and HH have tired me out a bit. i'll still watch both but the thing i hate most about Both shows are the jokes...dear god the sex jokes are the worst... having these jokes in serious scenes takes away from the impact., the swearing is usually unnessecary (unless it's just bliz doing it cuz he's basically brandon rogers) the huskerdust is...not a good ship idea considering angel invades husk's personal space and keeps harrassing him to no end without him ever being called out or being sorry. CHARLIE oh boy ... she has so much potential but she's basically a background character in the show and same for Vaggie because the cast is so large for one season of 8 episodes. also HH is...say it with me now! too much red. be honest. don't giveme the they are in hell excuse because there are clearly chracters like Vox and Zestial who have very little or lack red. the sir pentous joke ....did not need to be there and his death...what a waste. it was not even funny.Charlie is...very naive whish is fine as a chracter flaw but she's 200 years old and considers a lot of people in hell to be innocent is a bit hard to believe unless she's actually just like that.it's a bit..idk how to feel about her character but being naive to a lot of things does not do much for her character. Viv PLEASE you have a WRITERS TEAM . it can save your shows if you actually let them help you write the show . i noticed that viv is good at writing emotional scenes but not how something should lead up to it to make the moment feel earned at times
12:50 that's where Helluva Boss falls flat as well. Anytime there is a character making mistakes, they add context or switch the narrative to make the audience see them as a victim. Bojack Horseman only gives us context to *explain* their behavior, not excuse it. The whole "I am just a product of my environment" just makes hazbin/helluva characters appear as victims with excuses and no room for improvement, whereas bojack puts emphasis on the importance of taking accountability despite being a product of your upbringing. Every character has something to confront in Bojack, but in Hazbin, none of the characters reflect or suffer real consequences. Everything is just one big misunderstanding, or it's all excusable, so there's no growth.
This was so good, i had to watch it TWICE, its all really well written and informed and i literally cant help but agree qith you on EVERYTHING, i'd LOVE to hear ur take on helluva, as i think it has an equal or more amount of issues
its the fact that a whole stickman show that has no dialogue or voice acting has better character writing and so much more (talking about animation vs minecraft you should totaly watch it if you havent it’s mind blowing dude) is better than the shows i’ve seen vizie write / create, i used to be a fan of hers when i was younger because of her old animations (such as the die young anim etc.) it inspired me to animate, and as soon as i heard she was making a show i was extremely excited, i was okay with the pilot but after that it just got worse and worse and worse somehow, i cant relate to any of the characters as their minds and opinions switch so quickly and everything?? it feels like she mischaracterizes her own characters, vizie and her show had so much potential yet it’s trying so hard to be everything at once, i barely believe that its targetted to adults at this point because i see so many teens and preteens like her shows, barely any adults. funny enough i actually met an 8 year old who watches hazbin hotel like hello?? it feels like the writing wants to be so mature yet immature at the same time, like you have someone start crying over their trauma in the show and the next second the comedy relief starts talking about boobs and allat. its so odd man. sorry for the yap its just i seriously cant get why people defend vizie sometimes, the writing, character arcs, everything is horrible atp.
I wholeheartedly agree. Vivzie can't have all of her cake and eat it. Once there is a topic that has been firmly established that it's a serious subject, it HAS to stay that way to keep up the status quo. I feel like Vivzie flip flops with this to such a severe degree. It's disappointing that Hazbin to me feels like it's trying and failing to do what other adult animations have already accomplished.
Honestly what makes Hazbin hotel bad is that they decided to make it into a musical, not saying that their music is bad. It's just that it's in every episode to where It gets annoying & how a few songs Don't usually reflect or do anything for a character. Also swearing in every episode gets annoying like just because it's hell doesn't make it well-written, both songs & swear words should've been minimum & the story-line should've been more developed.
Ok...I'm down for criticizing Hazbin Hotel, but let's not pretend the majority of adult animation isn't absolute garbage in of itself. They're bad for different reasons, but they are still bad. Honestly children's animation is where the gold is at. Bojack Horseman, Arcane, and the like are exceptions to the trend, not the rule.
14:03 expect for vaggie and Charlie? Charlie hasn’t actually done anything bad, yes vaggie helped with the execution or whatever, but I’m sure that the angles were forced into it- she deserved better
I saw a joke video about the characters doing “the office” talking to the camera thing and that would’ve generally been better, especially with the small run time. A show set in hell about a hotel about redemption that leads to the literal PRINCESS OF HELL learning the problems with the Judgment system of heaven and how the first man is a lot worse then some people in hell. A lot still needs to be fixed to make everything work but it would’ve been much better with the talk to the camera style.
I feel like her main issue is that she's trying too hard to recreate the humor while also having the writing style of a 13 year old girl innuendos and double entendres will always be funnier than straight out the gate sex jokes and weird rape jokes your audience has a brain.. you don't need to hold our hands and spoon feed us your terrible joke about sa
I watch Helluva Boss because I love the character designs and animation but the writing is not good 💀 I really respect it though because getting a show about my ocs is goals and you can tell she really loves hers. I get the criticism that most of the characters have the same body type but its not nearly as bad as most anime same face/body syndrome because her characters are inhuman with unnatural colors which makes it easy to tell them apart compared to anime just giving their characters different eye and hair colors
I hate how every character in hell has the same shade of red. I don't care if people say "it's hell." they all look like strawberries and cherries
Setting to justify colors is kinda dumb, imagine if every SpongeBob character had all the same shade of blue, because they are on the sea
yea like helluva boss is at least a bit better since they gave more characters diff colours altough its not ideal
@@a_naotenhonome780 I never thought about that. That’s a good point
You silly goose, you absolute swine! Not EVERYONE in Hell has the same shade of red. But the show is centered in the Pride ring for a reason. 😡(Joke)
By the way, what other colors would you prefer in Hazbin Hotel???
Ngl, i feel like the setting-color thing can be nailed. For example, if its a forest themed char, it can be pulled off uidng yellow, green, etc. i feel like the representation of S-C in HH is very poor, and it couldve been better
I keep saying that the Pentious “sex with everyone” joke would have actually been funny if the crowd responded in the opposite way. They cheer with the first two “I’m doing this for everyone” covers, so when he says “I’m having sex with everyone!” The crowd should have been dead silent, with maybe a shot of some of the ppl looking unenthusiastic about the prospect, bc then it’s a depricating joke at his expense, like all the other jokes about his character.
Man that would've made me chuckle like an idiot 😭
It's just so easy to tell that this whole show (and helluva boss) is just the writers barely disguised fetish... They can't even hide it in the jokes 😭
Especially if one of the people who were reacting negatively was a sex addict. Maybe they're so infamous for being addicted to sex that all the other sex addicts want nothing to do with them! And then, during the "sex with everyone" joke, the guy in question would go up to Pentious and say, "Dude, not even *I* am that desperate to get fucked." And then they leave the nightclub and not appear again for the rest of the episode.
@@Fishyfish300can't ignore the fact Viv hired a guy that drew Valentino forcefully uhhh-ing Angel in a fetish way and they even admitted to it afaik.
Pentious: "I'm having sex with EVERYONE!"
Everyone: *crickets chirping*
Pentious: "I'm having sex with everyone!"
Everyone: *crickets chirping*
The joke with Serpentious COULD have been funny if they just had made the club quiet down at that moment and everyone just looked at him weirdly ! Hell, you could have made a criquet hell demon to make it even more !
Or even just have people hit on him and he has to awkwardly turn them down lol
One thing that annoys me a lot, regardless of any of the show’s other problems is Vaggie. WHY VAGGIE?? Like oh my god, at least her name was originally Vagatha (which is still awful), BUT THEN SHE CHANGED IT TO ACTUALLY BE VAGINA.
It’s just so gratuitous and immature.
WAIT THATS WHAT IT STANDS FOR?? I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST VAGGIE AND REMINDED ME OF VEGETABLE OR SOMETHING NOT FUCKING VAGINA THATS SUCH A CRUEL THING TO DO TO A CHARACTER 😭🙏
And a bit....icky when you realize she's a lesbian. Like you name the Lesbian character after *that* part of the female body...
that plus the lack of substance in the only sapphic couple in the show (i think, i haven't watched the show) really makes you question how vivziepop views lesbians. :/
@trqsh_can IMO it says more about how Viv views gay men than women. It’s no secret that a lot of the gay relationships are very openly sexual, in either of the shows. I think Vivienne doesn’t put as much emphasis on her wlw relationships because she isn’t turned on by them, but is turned on by the mlm relationships. I think she’s fetishizing her gay characters and ignoring her lesbian characters who give her no pleasure.
Oh, yeah. I hate her name. I've written a couple of Hazbin fanfics, and I changed her name in both of them. One of them is a D&D AU, so I just called her Agatha. The other is meant to be potentially canon compliant, so I referred to her as Veggie, ostensibly short for Vegetable. Made me laugh _and_ got me out of having to write her actual name. (I'm not sure what my thoughts on the show are - I'm scared to watch it, but reserving judgment until I do. But I absolutely loved the idea of what the show was sold as being before it came out, and I wrote some stuff based off of that.)
Hazbin Hotel. Promoted as being for adults.
But strictly with the maturity level of an edgy teenager.
I must confess, they totally ruined Alastor's character for me.
He sounds so cringe for someone who died in the 1900s.
They made him look so powerful in the pilot, and now he's just for display in empty spaces.
@@Wolf_Blobfr. The lack of cleanness in the lineart of his pilot design made him look even more powerful.
Can’t forgive the undercut-bob thingy though 😭 tf was that
@@Wolf_Blob I miss him actually sounding like someone from the 1900's and not some weird generic "fancy" edge lord that weird fan artists would make.
With sexual issues.
As a teen, I'm WAY MORE mature than who the f*ck thought that fetishizing rape is ok in a show that talks about rape. I'm even planning to explain why RadioSilence is my favourite "ship", since in my opinion it is the BEST fanon "ship" that even came out of one the worst fandoms in the whole World of fandoms.
When Charlie said "all those innocent people" IN HELL, I lost it XD. HOW DO YOU THINK THEY GOT THERE? 😅
I kinda feel like that's a bit of her "character" that she's naive and thinks everyone and everything is perfect and nice and deserves a second chance, I don't really know how to feel about it??.😭 Like it's okay but I would expect her to know better.
I think the issue is that she still ends up being right despite. Being super naive. Even when she's directly freaking out over the hotel supposedly not working when shes on trial in heaven it suddenly does. There's really not a moment where Charlie realizes her oversimplification of redemption and how it was husk that helped angel rather than her
Her flaw is that she's naive so, she does believe her people are wayyy better then they are even when she's proved wrong
@daisyblueofficial but like she should know better she's literally called them sinners like does she not know what that word means
It feels like the writter just over looked something in the script
i mean tbf they kinda show that heaven has zero clue what they're doing half the time, so there's definitely a chance they put people in hell when they don't belong there, but she's definitely really naive, and it's on purpose but at the same time it sorta feels like they made her act like a child. i get that's her main character flaw, but like...bringing crayon drawings to a serious meeting about the slaughter of your people? really???
Vivziepop only knows how to write two things: gay relationship drama and daddy issues. It is like her skills as a writer stagnated at the level of teenage-made fanfiction.
Let me guess You hate her
@@jameslazaridis4180 You can criticize a creator without hating them. I actually enjoyed Helluva Boss initially before it abandoned its initial premise and became the Stolas and Blitzo show. I just think Vivziepop became enamored with that ship to the detriment of the show. I still watch each new episode that comes out to see if there are some improvements. To her credit, she stopped the seemingly endless trend of introducing new villains without following-up on previous villains. I like that we more backstory and characterization of Millie recently who has been the most nelgected member of the IMP. I still hate that the show is a giant Stolitz shipfic, but, I could look past it if there were other things going on.
Real and the cherry on top is that she's severely problematic
@@jameslazaridis4180you are the stereotype simp fan everyone with a brain is talking about.
@@jameslazaridis4180
What a weak argument! He in no way said he hated VivziPop! Show me where exactly the person said he hates Vizi as a person. Show it and we’ll both eat our hats!
For the record, I myself don’t hate VivziPop as a person despite some of the controversies. I find she can be annoying and predictable but that doesn’t mean she can’t change if she is willing to improve. I applaud her for going as far as she is in getting her show on air. That being said, the show still sucks and is very flawed. That doesn’t mean VivziPop is bad either. She’s could improve in the writing.
I hate how Hazbin is written like a kid's show with swearing added on top. Take out the 18+ jokes and congrats, you got yourself the newest Disney Channel original.
disney is too soft maybe cartoon network but yeah i see your point
I’m sorry, did you not watch episode 4? It’s also worth noting that Poison does not have a single swear word in it.
sexual assault and harassment aren't an adult topic, children also suffer from these vile acts. There have been children media's about sexual harassment that portray the topic far far better than whatever ep 4 or the way angel is handled was. It's quite a shame that an "adult show" takes assault less seriously than a literal sitcom made for elementary kids.
As a grown woman I realize that Almost every Disney channel cartoon is so boring
Gravity falls is the least evil because it did have a good story and beautiful art style and great voice actors but one of my flaws with the show is that almost every character is an overused stereotype For example Dipper is a simp most of time
Mabel who is a very likeable character but she gets hated by fans for no reason
Stan and Soos are alright
Wendy is just a boring tomboy it would be if she was a redneck because she's a lumberjane beauty
Robbie is just there I guess
Gideon is a spoiled crybaby the show made him evil
Mabel's friends are just there
Pacifica is a stereotypical mean girl the show made her into an evil mean girls villain
As McGugget is the only good character next to Stan and Soos and Wendy
I've been saying this for years lmao thank you, I thought I was crazy.
20:13 There is no chemistry there. Angel Dust constantly pushed himself on to Husk and whenever Husk would say no, Angel Dust would continue anyway. Sure they made up, but it did not imply any romance to me. I don’t really like the idea of shipping them!
"He's just teasing you because he likes you!"
i dont like it either, but i respect those who do
@@ZuforkWillFoxy True, sending hate ain’t gonna fix it, people are allowed to disagree!
I think they were going for that white vs dark relationship trope but it just ended up being an assault case. Horrible
Honestly I feel like they'd be better with a mentor and student type dynamic. Not sure why, just vibes.
When you said the main inspiration for Hazbin was BoJack Horseman I nearly fell over 💀 Hazbin WISHES it could handle such delicate topics like Bojack did. I really did want it to be good. I hoped we would have explored the characters & why they were in hell in the first place but instead, it felt as if I was thrown into something I should have already been familiar with which I wasn't.
I freaking LOVE BH and is that true?! That is soooo off bro. I feel the HH (and also HB) is incapable of handling topics like in BH. They can't even make character consistent sometimes, just take Angel Dust for example, for such harsh topics like SA and abuse, they still made Angel quite... unlikeable, even when they TRY to potray Angel catcalling, harrasing Husk as a joke it's still pretty odd, especially it's ANGEL, where he's supposed to be the victim. And the thing is, the show CAN'T say it's trying to show that it's the effect of abuse going down from one person to another, they literally brushed it off a lot and barely addresses it, or even doesn't address it all.
I mean imo hazbin hotel only has one season for now and it’s like only 8 episodes. I say let them cook
"Mom can we get Bojack horseman?"
"No we have Bojack horseman at home."
Bojack horseman at home:
@@Rockstxrgf.If what they’re cooking is trash, I’m not gonna let them keep cooking.
@@briasinterlude1755 it’s too early to tell! And plus that’s a huge “what if” only time will tell
As a teenager..... REAL. hazbin feels like what being a teenager feels like: a child masquerading as an adult, and insisting its more grown and mature then it really is.
As another teenager i can confirm this statement
I love the concept, but the execution of hazbin hotel was...rough. I especially hate how they didn’t flesh out sinners. The idea of "not all sinners are bad" ABSOLUTELY could work, but Charlie only says it and never mentions what gets a soul into hell. Is it any sin written in the book, including old testaments that apparently counted eating hamburgers, having tattoos, suicide and being short as a sin? Maybe they could've played with the idea that heaven only sees the sin and not the reason, like a woman who murdered her abusive husband and killed herself because of the shame/guilt, ending up in hell, or maybe a teenager who killed their abusive family or shot their bullies, a gold digger who cheated on their partner and ended up in hell, there's so many ways to make a character morally grey and still end up in hell! But they chose to show, not tell, which sucks, because this show could've been something great. Also, why do they only wear red? Im sure hell has more than that available.
Uhh, I think you mean tell, not show 😅
I actually imagined that Vox ended up in Hell for killing people who abandoned him.
I’ve written so many scenarios like this. I’ve even- Embarrassingly, -given some canon characters, like Vox, noncannonical backstory.
I made him exist during the rise of tv in the mid 1900s, just after Alastor’s time. I gave him some family and a little bit of angsty shot because I needed to in my heart of hearts- You don’t set out to make a monster, evil isn’t just born into the world to hurt people, you gotta give them a reason.
Agreed. Like what if there was a character who was a peasant and killed someone to get food for their starving family or something? So many ways to create nuance and they decided to do nothing.
Suicide is definitely a sin. It's a form of murder. Idk when ppl started not regarding it as a sin
If Hazbin hotel was still an indie project with one to a few people on board to write it i would give it so much more slack, but this is a whole ass animation studio with a whole team of writers doing nothing to make it better
honestly i really wish it had stayed an indie project, sure we wouldn't have gotten as many big name voice actors and it probably still wouldn't be perfect given the quality of helluva boss, but i imagine there'd be a lot more control over the direction the show goes (although maybe it's better because viv has less control over it?? idk what goes on behind the scenes lmfao) and we wouldn't have had to wait 4 years for 8 episodes that end up rushing the story because they don't know if they'll get another season or not. i know we're going to get at least 3 more seasons, but if they're all 8 episodes long it'll probably just be more of the same, i really want an episode that's kinda just a slice of life thing that lets us learn about the characters and gives us a reason to root for them, but since there's only 8 episodes worth of time it means they HAVE to move the plot along RIGHT NOW in order to wrap everything up by the end, and it's frustrating. i really, really think it would have been better if it just stayed as an indie show.
I think the problem IS there are so many godnammed writers that make it awful, there's no cohersion.
Vivziepop COULD have gotten better writers if that was the problem. She just chose not to.
@@krampus7520 Oh yeah definitely
The answer is simple: HH and HB are not adult shows, this show is like cigarettes that children take to smoke around the corner to seem older and cooler, but only children consider smoking as something cool. This show is for children and childish adults, bc the scriptwriters are the same childish adults, who haven't matured. Thanks for the video!! Very beautiful art!
It may be adult in its content, but it is not mature in its themes. It's very childish and it resembles the type of humor I'd have in 5 or 6th grade.
Also, the lore is super messed up imo. Not a fan of the babyification of all the sins and hellborn
@@wist.not the 6th grade humor 💀 (it is true though)
Bluey (kids show) itself is more mature than the Hellaverse.
Because it handles serious topics much more effectively than the two shows.
An adult show doesn't need 100+ swear words / episode, it just needs to be more serious in the writing, which failed miserably. Like, you cannot tell me that Stolitz and HuskerDust aren't on the same level of Valentino x Angel Dust, because they ARE.
You took the words out my mouth
Fr i watched hezbin hotel instead of smoking 😂
After seeing mouthwashing, nowadays I think about the comparison of Charlie and curly trying to see the good in people can become a downfall for them and it’s somehow horrifying to think about this kind of trope but both of them are different, Charlie is naive and is the ruler where literal criminals get placed in because of their actions but curly on the other hand knows a “friend” his entire life but he let his guard down and his fate is what lead by not taking the responsibility of seeing an actual person who is a horrible person (it’s j*mmy) and curly get his skin burned off and in constant pain and he is the only one who remains alive and he wasn’t the hero for not seeing through the truth of the event that happens with everyone on the space ship and J*mmy never taking accountability of his actions, a naive character can be difficult to right but making one that’s more fleshed out like curly can be a good example of making one rather than Charlie morning star, she didn’t want believe that LITERAL sinners don’t deserve hell, it’s just somehow annoying and poor writing of a character
(Sorry about the rant with characters, i just feel annoyed by Charlie or the entire plot of hazbin hotel now)
I was actually thinking exactly this LOL
This is a pretty good comparison, both characters I think are supposed to be the light for the cast. The shinning leader that keeps everyone afloat. And while Hazbin Hotel seems to follow that path down to the letter- I think Mouthwash does it so well by pointing out what exactly is wrong by being that type of person. By trying to see the best in people who clearly take advantage of others, by being the enabler for people who clearly won’t change or “take responsibility” you become part of the problem.
Their morals are very similar, it's just the type of character that makes it different.
Being a naive doesn't mean being weak, you can be ignorant but not stupid.
You talk too much
@@jameslazaridis4180 I can tell you never opened a book.
Vivziepop is trying to go for a much mature audience but the humor is like middle schooler audience level and joke wise . And the fans always excuse the characters they like but won't excuse everyone else is kinda backwards thinking, like if you're not going to excuse a character you don't like don't excuse those you like. Also I hate the r@pe/sa jokes like those jokes are not funny which make angelhusk a bad ship like angel doesn't liked what valentino did to him, but yet he does it to husk like that relationship isn't healthy.
middle school humor isss crazyyyyyy when i was in middle i didnt know half the stuff the show was talking about maybe its todays kid middle schoolers that get it idk lol
She peaked on tumblr as a teenager, of course she can’t let go of that humor. She’s like a jock kid in his 30’s who still wears his track coat
@destructivelemon67 Bruh that's funny, but yeah and everyone think vivzipop is a good person it's like they forgot all the things she did and her behavior on the Twitter platform or how she treats sa victims and trans people. She fucks over everyone, and people will defend her with their last breath.
Well tbh although I left the fandom I just excuse them because I hate that fact that show i LOVED turned out to be hated by everyone it’s my personal experience but still ofc I’m gonna excuse it so I can cover up the bad writing because I just want it to be good so I can be happy! And not hate myself for liking a show everyone else fucking hates because it’s probably the most poorly written thing on the planet I don’t thinks it even worth redemption and that’s the whole fucking point what a nightmare
@Xheart817 I mean, I understand what you're saying. We all probably have a character from the show we like, but we wished they were written better or at least the show was a bit better written. But with vivizpop's shitty writing and even more shitty personality, idk how long the show will last.
Another thing I don’t like is how Charlie is a 200+ year old demon and she acts really young. I don’t accept “she would be 16 in human years” as an argument because she’s treated as an adult, but acts like a younger teenager
I also don’t like how the gay characters are written either. Charlie and Vaggie look like two best friends, Angel Dust harasses Husk 24/7 yet we’re supposed to root for them, Blitzo and Stolas are straight up toxic on both ends, Ozzie and Fizzarolli are written as an UwU gay couple, etc
@@ZephyrLucki Yes, but I do unironically love Fizz and Ozzy. I just can’t help it, not cause they’re gay, cause Ozz so genuinely cares about Fizz, even if that love is expressed in possessive ways. Those are themes that could be explored and overcome and they could become a stronger couple as a result.
Vivzie is just straight up fetishizing gay couples and it shows.
You know it’s bad when the UwU couple is the best one💀 (tho I will admit I like fizz and Ozzie, hate the execution6
THE ONLY CHARCTER that didn’t deserve to be in hell was vaggie. She was kicked out of heaven for not killing a child. Even if the child was a sinner.
I don’t like the writing at all but I like Rosie
Sometimes I wish to rewrite the whole thing
NAAAH PLEASE DO IT!!
I swear I would read everything!!!
@ awwwww I might I think about it a lot 😭
@@my-nostalgia-is-horror obviously, don't do it if you feel forced to!!!
But yeah, it would honestly be refreshing reading something about HB that actually makes sense 😭
@ mmmm you drive a hard bargain…..maybe
Omg pls rewrite it I would totally read it! Also how come every fandom I get into is a show that I liked at first, but then I realized it needs to be rewritten 😭😭😭
16:34 definitely don’t understand hazbin fans that trash on Steven’s character as childish and naive when charlie is frankly worse than him on that regard and has little to no consequences from her choices (hell the story is terrified to have her actually have substantive choices to make!)
I actually thought about Steven and Charlie. They both seem to have gotten similar criticisms towards their charcters.
I will say that Steven seems to be better at the therapy thing than Charlie.....and he's a CHILD with no experience.
Imagine comparing a grown ass, several-hundred year old woman to a sheltered and arguably neglected child
SU has its issues but Steven was NEVER one of them lol
@@screamingrex6160
I think Charlie is also sheltered even though she's much older than Steven.......
@@screamingrex6160 Boh are sheltered and neglected though-
She has consequences though like did episode 4 just not exist? (not really she makes substantive choices, again episode 4 but also episodes 5 and 6.) And honestly both Steven and Charlie are overhated at times hell Hazbin in ways feels like Steven Universe including some of the absurd hate they get.
writing a story about wrongful/unfair punishment taking place in hell becomes a whole lot harder when you become overly-emotionally attached to your characters and then just completely forget that the point of having the setting of the afterlife is that WHO THEY WERE IN LIFE *MATTERS*
The Good Place did the whole “redeeming sinners” plot better already and that show was actually funny and had good characters
Never heard of it
@ a good show. I recommend it.
Think it’s on Netflix too
Hazbin hotel is written like a fanfiction or a story based around someones oc in irder to give them "cool edgy moments" and the show spends more time desperately attempting to get the audience to go, "Wooooooow, this moment is so serious and intense!" But when you do that EVERY episode, it loses the charm and comes across as kindaaaa cringe.
Remember how big of a phenomenon Sans was? And how he had a shit ton of aus ab him solely bc of that one moment in the game where sans is actually taken srsly? The reason it was such a big deal at the time is bc sans spends THE ENTIRE GAME being seen as lazy and apathetic. He had to EARN the genocide route "wooooow" moment. In all the fan media, sans' character was warped severly bc ppl didnt look at sans as a whole anymore, JUST the genocide route boss fight.
Hazbin hotel is written like those undertale fanon comics. Vivziepop writes like a highschool oc creator who spends more time writing cool epic scenes for these characters than actually fleshing them out enough for them to have to earn those moments.
Ive been a big fan of vivzie for a long time and i think that has a lot to do w my dissapointment in her shows. Her writing hasnt rlly improved all that much from zoophobia. If she actually listened to critism or, better yet, had LESS control over the writing in her shows, they would be better. Its like how all dogs go to heaven bombed bc don bluth had full creative control and put ALL his ideas in. Less is more and show dont tell are 2 principles that vivziepop fundamentally doesnt understand.
To continue my little rant, yk someone who's actually GREAT at writing dark and serious moments into comedys while still maintaining the comedic aspect of the show? Brandon Rodgers. While this is more ab helluva boss at this point, he actually knows how to write jokes and it's painfully obv when vivziepop writes them instead of him. If he had more creative control over the show, helluvaboss would be improved dramatically
I wish I could give you a high-five, your points are exactly what I was feeling but couldn’t summarize in words. Nothing is earned! If everything is edgy and cool, nothing is
21:33 I HAVE A HOTTTTT OPINION HERE. that argument is NOT accurate. the designs arent animator friendly, they are dumbed down! We can use Vivziepops old works, backgrounds and even how shes shown effects in both her current works to work out that she CAN do detailed works but chooses not to, for undisclosed reasons or laziness, thats up for debate.. but, people use this argument, as if there's not so many references we can use to disprove it, because whilst Viv does make her designs slightly animator friendly, it isnt her full potentional on display, a heavy con in her works and a thing that pulls her out. She's fully able to do amazing character designs, with details and a lot of "sparkle", we can use more of her works to example; Beelzebub from HB, somewhat complex design, but its clear she's not "animator friendly" due to her abdomen design being essentially glowing liquid. of course you can pull so many other characters in, like Ozzie and/or Stolas, specifically when using their respective powers/abilities, theyre also not traditionally animator friendly either. also the background works, whilst not being exactly fair to use, are also very complex and do not folow the typical rule Vivs style follows: simple, specific and stylized, theyre detailed, complex and follow fewer rules(like no direct outlines)
sidenote, its not only vivzie who has this issue, many others also suffer this problem, but vivzie is the main argument in this
honestly i liked hazbin's pilot better than the actual show on prime
Oh wow.. sure thing I don’t care
@@jameslazaridis4180 Care enough to reply?
The animation seemed so alive, and the characters were (mostly) less annoying and corny then. Sure, there were way too many sound effects, but I'll take that over a bad story.
Angel Dust was SO MUCH MORE likable in the pilot and I will die on that hill.
Agree
Im mean,charlie should at least say some innocent souls in hell,not every soul tbh.
Hazbin Hotel itself seems strangely naive at best, it wants to tackle themes like morality and redemption, yet it shows these themes in a way where it only morality as a close minded black and white concept. The heaven and hell setting can work for the themes Hazbin was going for as there are many examples these kind of themes can work in a setting based on christianity (An example would be Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame as a character) but in order to do that is to be a writer who can tackle these themes within that kind of setting beautifully, and Vivzie and the other writers of the show are just not those kinds of writers.
I do like Hazbin but I’m very upset the original premise of using the hotel to redeem sinners to deal with the overpopulation problem as an alternative to the exterminations got pushed to the background in favor of this heaven vs hell plot. All the “redemption” happened off screen!! I’m also upset that Viv focused more on developing the fan favorite characters more than the MAIN CHARACTER, I love Charlie but she is so underdeveloped compared to AngelDust etc
Also I feel like the characters had better characterization in the pilot, or at least Angel did, like pilot Angel I could see having the potential to be redeemed potentially, like he helped CherryBomb in a terf war sure, but he went out of his way to help his friend! Maybe not purely out of the kindness of his heart but if he didn’t care about her at all he wouldn’t have bothered. And we saw him reach out to comfort Charlie when she was disappointed her plans seemed to be falling apart but pulled back, like he felt bad!
It's funny she sets the show in Hell instead of like Limbo or Purgatory or something. The overpopulation and extermination concept just is really weird and never made sense to me.
Why not something like a 'cleansing' where souls forget and get factory reset or some kind of concept with reincarnation. Make the damned souls be reborn on earth and get a chance at living a "good life", thus the consequences are higher and we don't have this weird "double death" issue.
Personally I'm fine with the heaven vs hell coming eventually, but it happened wayyyy too soon. Like the big battle feels like it should've been the finale for season 3 or 4, season 2 at the very least. They obviously didn't have time to develop and build up to it so they should've scaled back the story.
@ honestly I agree…it happened wayyy too early! Like I get it if they weren’t sure if they’d get renewed for another season but with how few episodes they had they should have focused on the important parts of the story and characters. Like I swear, if season two actually focuses on the hotel and redemption I’m watching the show in the wrong order. To be completely honest the whole season felt like they smooshed two half’s of two seasons together, obviously there’s the big pacing issue. I wouldn’t have minded the finally if the pacing was slower cause certain arcs felt so unearned! Like I’m sorry but Charlie’s daddy issues felt like something that could have been dragged out to at least two or three episodes. Also I love Lucifer but how the hell did he cause her daddy issues in the first place?! At least in the pilot even though we never saw him it was believable somewhat. Like I wasn’t expecting him to be abusive obviously but he obviously didn’t believe in her cause for whatever reason. Honestly I was kinda expecting a similar dynamic to Mal and Hades from Descendants 3
Im gonna sort of repeat a point made by a video I watched a couple years back because I think it still stands but Angel Dust SHOULD have been the main protagonist of the show. He was the character that the audience would root for even if he was still raunchy and said a lot of swears and sex jokes. And besides that, when I think of Hazbin Hotel the first character that comes to mind IS Angel Dust, he was the character that I've seen old animatics of by Vivzi and Michael Kovach bantering with people as Angel during Hunicast and Ashely Nichols' streams gave him so much charm and heart that I was hoping that same energy would translate well in the final product.
18:56 ok ok this reminded me a lot of the Natlan war in the most recent arc in genshin impact
Hazbin’s “war” is something that was kinda highly anticipated, and in the end it only affected the main characters, when it was supposed to affect a whole ass world of ppl right?
While the Natlan war was something we were aware could happen, but when it did it was a shock and the cruel detail of having a literal screen with the number of deaths and seeing corpses during the war when trying to help people and seeing the actual npcs that don’t have ANY story relevance just not be there after the war hurt a lot. It’s clear that it did affect everyone, not just the mcs
Kinda weird seeing a Genshin reference out in the wild. Not that I'm complaining, that arc was fire (literally)!!
Yessss!!!! I was SO stressed and distraught during that arc! It depicted how bad the war was for the whole nation pretty well. Also fighting alongside the characters and then later seeing their corpses was… rough, but good writing
I think this is why I can't get into HH and HB, i feel like their trying too hard to be a "show for adults" the script writing feels like something I'd make when i was a teen trying to fit in with the cool and older teens😭
Basically the show wanting to tackle mature and nuanced themes, but nobody on the team has the actual maturity for it
Of course there's other things that contribute to the bad quality, such as wasting too much on things that are unnecessary to the plot, and just are here because would be cool, big build up with small pay off, doing things like making characters spell out their traits, instead of letting the audience pick by themselves, arcs and bonds can feel shallow given how they are usually very rushed
It feels like nobody has thepatience for the set up and pay-off for these mature emotional scenes. We see time and time again bum-rushed problems thrown into the mix and lightning quick reactions. Which leaves these pivotal moments feeling hollow. It's just BOOM sudden drama - BOOM character angry - BOOM crying scene. Vivzie rather seems to want to focus on raunchy jokes and slapstick or callbacks to other shows instead of writing her characters with any depth.
I mean no they did do that, they showed the nuance of Heaven for example, people miss that though and say it's saying that all of Heaven is bad when that's not what it's actually saying.
I mean...the characters still do show their traits too. Arcs and bonds aren't all very rushed and still feel genuine. Not all of the arcs are finished either.
@@Jdudec367 dude maybe stop commenting under numerous critic videos on something you like and let people have their opinions in peace? Are you chronically online or something?
@@emptinessitself I am letting them have their opinion though.
No I'm not actually.
@@Jdudec367 PFFFT if you're not respecting opinions of other people and push only your POV then nobody will respect yours either
Ever wondered why your comments are often ignored or/and never liked?
My main criticism for the show is kinda nitpicky so just take this with a pinch of salt:
The show’s premise calls for a more focused and literary style in my opinion. Think about it, the princess of hell is trying to save the souls of sinners through a hotel all the while the looming threat of an angelic extermination haunts the narrative. It sounds almost “Good Place” like. Where the show would criticize Christianity and bring up interesting topics through characters. And it really seemed like it was going to do this in the pilot- the cast fits perfectly for it. Unfortunately due to the short episode count the show couldn’t really do that. Instead it seems to pander into fandom culture- which would be perfectly fine except that when it does have the chance to bring up an interesting topic or discussion it doesn’t drop that attitude. This- again, in my opinion- gives it a kinda immature tone to the serious and somewhat interesting topics they touch on. I love the show, the art, the characters, all that- but the writing is mediocre and while I will always credit Vivzipop for inspiring me I can’t honestly say Hazbin Hotel is my favorite.
I was hoping for a very episodic format with each episode doing a very deep dive into one sinner, exploring many moral complexities of their situation, perhaps with Charlie and Alastor acting as the voices of their consciences and darkest desires, then ending with the focus sinner choosing Charlie's way or Alastor's way or perhaps finding some interesting compromise. Ultimately, after like maybe a dozen episodes, certain sinners could become recurring characters and an overarching plot could begin to take shape. Basically I wanted _The Great Divorce_, but more dramatized and character-focused.
I'm a smidge disappointed. Episode 4 seems to be the only one that's even close to what I wanted, and I'm scared to try and watch it.
Nah, it could have definitely gone that route, it'd just need a tight script. I just don't think they were commited to that route and didn't know where to place their focus.
Hazbin Hotel feels like if you took a bunch of edgy newground animators from the late-2000s/early-2010s, putting them in a room to make a cartoon in under 6 months, and letting them to do whatever they want without proper test audiences or critiques or discussions whatsoever.
I do love Hazbin Hotel for its certain qualities, so I hope that the later seasons can resolve some of these issues, lol.
If Viv doesn't bother searching from the Bible or other Christian side books and search Google for more information (which all can be done by flipping pages and typing on gadgets), then why bother make something out of it???
Yes, you could just make your own version of things (like a fan fiction), but not everything should be changed or twisted. If you can't do something yourself, get an ACTUAL GOOD references!
Religion is a complex thing if you go very deep into it, especially for things like Heaven and Hell. It would be so much easier for Viv if she just made HH took place in a fantasy world; angels and demons could be any fantasy beings. Viv also could make up pretty much everything.
20:04 people wanna blame the fandom for vivs , poorly written, female characters even though she wrote those characters without the fandom influencing her because they say that there’s weirdos online that can’t handle complex female characters well, OK but I don’t find any any of vivs male characters that complex
I feel like hazbin and heluva are in a category of shows that are presented as 18+, but are mostly watched by 11-14 year olds
Hazbin Hotel is that one kid that acts Edgy but makes every one cringe and want to tell him to STFU
Her
@ they
@MaxTaylor-s4f I mean the creator
@ oh…..
13:55 honestly it could work if they actually looked at bibble ane saw that people can go to hell, over minor and harmless things, like being on the other religion, not believing in god, being lgbt, etc.
And what also doesn't make the redemption work on Hazbin hotel is the fact that we see sinners trying to redeem themselves from what they did on hell, not for the things they did on earth
hey i noticed that (at the time of commenting this, you might edit the comment) that you wrote “the bibble” instead of “the bible”
@sOWAcREAM2763 i dint notice since English isn't my first language lol, but i will leave on this way because i kinda don't like when my comment has "edited" on it
hi! Christian here- being LGBT in many Protestant denominations is not a one-way ticket to hell! It is perfectly fine to be Christian and LGBT (I am, technically). While many sects of the Christian church see acting on LGBTQ+ "temptations" as adultery, not all do. Either way, God is loving and forgiving!!! :3
I'm not trying to push my religion onto you, just trying to educate!
There's really so much fascinating material to work with and I wish so deeply the show actually used more of it!
Would be better if they dropped the onceler lookin ass character proportions
I love how the only character that could potentially not be as thin as a toothpick (Adam) is also an asshole villain. Very cool, Vivziepop!
Charlie act like a child & is oblivious most of the time. She didn't notice angel being upset when she praised sir P. She caused the studio to burn down, ignored angel dust's wishes & started the awful sobbing & apology. She is the most privileged being in all of creation & have no clue on how humans work so she behave like a daycare attendant instead of you know... actually listening to her friends? Like steven?
What baffles me is how nothing of a present she is. She failed to convince adam & got kicked out. She failed to prove her point in courts & she got her ass kicked until daddy saved her from adam for the 3rd time he got her out of trouble first when hellborns were excluded from extermination second is when she met up with heaven's higher ups third is when lucifer got rid of adam for her & nifty killed adam which means the main character of the show is not only a manic pixie dream girl but she's also a character that is prevented from having any consequences or think & reflect about anything really not to mention how her plan makes no sense yet the show tries to gaslight us into believing that she earned it via sir pentious ascension to heaven. Charlie just invited him & never interacted with him afterwards in any meaningful way that she even ignored him when she presented angel dust as an example of souls path to redemption instead of sir pentious who actually wanted to change & showed selflessness from the get go.
11:52 A big part of why Bojack worked compared to Hazbin Hotel as well is because the first season was dedicated to the basic set-up of the characters. We learn that Bojack is a wash-up actor looking for his next hit in either fame or drugs, Diane wants to do something important, Princess Carolyn is a fixer and stuck in a loveless relationship because of this. That was the starting point for the writers to dive into the specific plot lines we saw follow them throughout the show. Hazbin put the cart before the horse (pun intended) and did the plot first without really diving into what aspects of the character (beyond the much better written pilot) make them WANT to do what they do.
A prime example of this is Lucifer and Charlie’s relationship. We know Charlie is avoidant to getting his help, and we’re told that it’s because he’s patronizing, but what was the incident that made her realize that he was a lost cause? What made Lucifer turn away from sinners when he MARRIED one??? These are basic motivations for the conflict between them but before we get those revealed, the conflict is fixed???
I can’t entirely blame the pacing of the show because these are the basics of writing. So many confusing decisions made with the story and I still question why they *needed* to confront Heaven in this season instead of letting it be an overarching plot
Ngl I was disappointed with how it turned out, waiting 4 years for it and watching it as it came out. It felt tacky and I wanted to see more of Charlie x Vaggie ngl because of how she portrays the other ships in Helluva Boss. Vaggie's whole personality being Charlie's lover and you can barely see their love is kinda sad
i think the biggest issue vivzie has for her show is she doesnt know how to do the "kill your darlings". she wants each and every idea crammed into her show and refuses to actually rework it to make ideas fit. she never would have redeisgned charlie to be a better 'innocent' character (in both personality and actual lore making sense) becuase she doesnt know how to tell a story properly. look at her old zoophobia comic, its a hot mess
Now that I think of it, I can't help but feel like Vivzie can only write gay men.
I wouldn't say she does that very well either.
@astarteswillum5259 I mean, at least they gay men written by Vivzie seem to have actual personalities instead of only existing as the friend, spouse, or enemy of another character.
I totally agree with everything said here. honestly, it feels like an attempt at being a character driven show, while have a super heavy plot, and having a bunch of fun villains on the side that are there for the laughs, while also having some serious moments.
now, this can be done! it has been done many a times. but with the medium shes doing it in (Tv show), she needs to understand how IMPORTANT it is to fully develop your cast.
Its worst with charlie, so thats who I'll use as an example:
what are we TOLD about charlie?:
she has daddy issues.
she is a great leader and is genuinely helping sinners
shes naive
shes a woman in a happy saphic realationship
shes a really moral character
she is connected to everyone around her meaninfully
she is brave
she is ambitious
now this is what we are SHOWN:
her having actually a pretty good relationship with her father
her doing two activities (that dont work) with a few sinners, then them magically becoming more moral
she is shown to be naive
we see her kiss vaggie meaningfully once. and there is almost never romantic tension. (no highs and lows really)
she is shown to be moral, but in a way that is so naive it actually hurts for a grown ass woman to be acting like this
we are shown that she has a few activities, and talks. but then it's all-time skips we dont get to see.
she is brave, but not in a way that she glorified. she is brave in a way that is not beneficial to the whole (foolish)
she IS ambitious, but we are not shown different avenues of that ambition.
in conclusion, we are not shown a lot of her attributes. and mainly just told.
I have so so so so so many other critiques of this show, but I dont want this comment to get to long.
also, I actually love this show. thats part of the reason Im so pissed about it. the characters are very fun (although not very well written), and the plot and songs are fun and really entertaining! but from a writing standpoint it is just a HOT MESS.
I was only really a Hazbin fan for a little after the pilot came out, I feel like the redemption plotline could have worked IF that's what they chose to lean into (and if the characters were a little more morally grey). I love the idea of trying to redeem people that seem like a lost cause and it could be such an interesting plot for a show! I'm a little sad they didn't go for that.
I feel the show would have been so, so much better if Vivzie read up on the actual moral implications of rehabilitive justice and the different arguments for and against it. Shows that are not set within a reality like our own become more interesting when you refer to ethical, moral, and philosophical ideas and debates that do exist within our own world. Things like, is murder ever justified? Can an abuser be redeemed and allowed to re-enter society? What happens when a child abuses or even kills another child, what should be done about the offending child? Those ideas, the debates and different view points surrounding them, could have been brought into the actual storyline of Hazbin, real ideas could have been explored in a mature way, and the show would have more substance due to it. Instead, the story brushes those moral complexities under the rug in an attempt to avoid conflict within fandom and to go with the safest possible storytelling options available.
Basically The good place plot
I love the concept of Hazbin Hotel, and dont get me wrong, I enjoyed watching it when it released. But good GRIEF this show needs work!!! It needs a whole new team of writers, and honestly I don't think Vivziepop is really any good at writing. Her writing regarding female characters and POC characters is downright abysmal, every single time in both Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel the males always outshine the female characters because they NEVER get any writing, and LITERALLY Brandon had to step in just to give Millie any semblance of character development. And don't get me started on the villains, why, for the love of god, do they have to be so one dimensional?? Adam, Stella, Mammon,Striker, they're JUST bad, thats their ONLY character trait. And not every villain has to be this complex character, but its the fact its literally almost every single antagonist. Adam could've been SO MUCH COOLER if he got development and given a personality trait other than "complete asshole", and it just doesnt make sense when he dies and smiles at lute and theres this whole emotional moment, because theres just NOTHING there. Im holding out hope that Sera will change things.
Hazbin Hotel feels like a bunch of kids pretending to be adults. It doesnt feel like an adult show, because no one working on it has the maturity of one!!! And, it literally feels like they don't even target adults, it honestly feels like their target audience is YOUNGER teens (which is a little weird to say the least).
It could be improved but it doesn't need a whole new team of writers and eh Viv is good at writing tbh. Her writing egarding female characters and POC characters isn't that bad or is abysmal. No the males don't alwayss outshine the female characters and they do get writing, No Millie getting character development is because of Viv too. The villians aren't all one dimensional. Eh no Adam is lazy and egotistical and kind of a surfer bro too and is sexist too, Stella feels like Stolas hurt her reputation so yeah it makes sense that she would do that and she was put in a forced marriage too, Mammon is a slob too and is greedier then anyone else and he knows how to do business too and has a sense of humour, Striker hates demon royalty and wants them dead, so no they aren't just bad they have other character trais too. It's not every antagonist though. I mean he was, he likes to have fun and have a laugh even if he is a jerk, that does make sennse as they got along pretty well and cleary had a strong bond together, no there is something there.
I disagree it feels like an adult show tbh and the people working on it have the maturity of one. Nah it feels like they target adults tbh.
The fact that viv can't even write black characters like husk well is concerning. The opening episode of the story explaining how hell was made seems to be a lie, not mentioning that adam even ate the forbidden fruit, so is that why adam is in heaven? And where is eve? The missing information is not good plot wise.
The show could have explained how easy it is to be deemed as a sinner, and if heaven is not fair and acts like a dysfunctional dystopia
Hazbin isn't based off the christian bible tho its vivs own canon or w/e
@wxrd6n ok ty. It's still kind of boring plot wise to not make a compelling narrative with biblical characters and jokes that aren't funny
@@tylergood3773 oh no dont get me wrong i think the writing is cheeks, i found more nuance through watching moral orel. Good watch if you havent seen it
@@wxrd6n I still think it’s important to understand the source material even when you’re going to do your things. What Vivziepop is doing is not 100% different, there are still names and elements from Christianity, but I feel like she didn’t do as much research as she should for her worldbuilding.
honestly I think they just wanted to animate the good place but then didn't realize what made the good place an actually good show
i do think that commentary about how unfair it is to punish people infinitely for finite sin is a good thing to mention in a show about the afterlife, but the way that hazbin does it makes me not take it seriously especially with how they forcefully try to make you hate heaven with borderline charicatures of Christians and religious people, and also how they make Adam feel like. not at all real. and I've dealt with people "like him before", especially with my old supervisor but the thing is that he was a real annoying ass person and Adam felt forced.
also it feels like hell's people are meant to be forgiven for what they've done despite how horrible they are, when the point of redemption isn't to forgive but to change. mha does a great job at writing about redemption, atonement, and forgiveness with two very prominent characters
on top of that I actively dislike any conversation that is only ever sexual, it makes interacting with those types of people incredibly grating and it makes me tired and uncomfortable so seeing how hazbin just does not fucking stop with the sex jokes was a hard no for me. and I know that people are alright with this but I specifically didn't like that even if I make a few, very few sex jokes from time to time
one more thing to add, a hateful religious fictional character who blames other characters and "sinning" on everyone else but himself is frollo and he's so much more chilling and appealing as a written character than Adam (and heaven) ever was. he genuinely believed he was in the right for his religious belief because he wasn't "like those people" that he looked down upon, and like Adam UGH Adam didn't fucking feel religious to me he just felt like a normal asshole dude you'd find in a Wattpad fanfic who'd like be harassing the main girl before her love interest came in and punched the living shit out of him. and I HATTEEED that as someone who eats up religious figures who try to justify their actions with religion (my current favorite character is Sunday from HSR as an example)
Another issue I have with the HH and HB lore is the setting. I mean, if Hell is no different to a paradise for sinners based on the way people in actually make themselves at home there, then why would they want redemption? If Hell in VivziPop’s world is basically a paradise for sinners to continue to live out their darkest and depraved fantasies then they shouldn’t care about redemption and going to Heaven. So why have this?
The only thing I can see why they would want to leave Hell is the annual extermination, but you could argue that, if they’re smart enough, a sinner could avoid it and continue to live on for eternity.
So overall, making Hell look like Chicago but as a sinners’ paradise is a really bad move.
13:46 when u talked about the heaven and hell and its morality testing it reminded me of The Good Place which executes this idea greatly, becuz (SPOILERS OF THE GOOD PLACE)
the "heaven" is really restrictive of its testing system due to the complexity of modern society, and those systems lacked nuance, resulting in no one getting into heaven for YEARS
Honestly, the whole concept of just 'Heaven vs Hell' or 'Maybe Heaven is as bad as Hell' are amazing when done correctly.
Like, Good Omens does the oncept so much better by actually showing the way heaven convinces angels that hell is just evil
through Aziraphale and Crowley's relationship and how even though they love each other, Aziraphale still has a viewpoint that
has been fed to him by heaven.
And, I'd like to compare Vaggie and Crowley since they're both fallen angels. Thing is, we actually get to see Crowley's
disdain for heaven's way of handling things while also disliking hell's working system. He actually feels like a character who has seen with his
own eyes what heaven is willing to do to 'follow God's plan'. He knows stuff about angels still, unlike Vaggie who literally never even tried to
see if angels could ever be harmed in her whole time being in hell.
(This is gonna be a long comment, apologies to anyone who doesn't feel like reading)
I am also biased towards the show, and I still love it for what it is. (probably because I consider myself easy to please) But if I were to state some criticisms about the show itself and how I would fix them, it would be the following:
1. Even if the episode format can't be changed from 8 episodes per season, change the plot to something that won't feel so rushed by the season finale. I've seen some people say that the war with Heaven plot should have been saved for a later season and I agree with them. If I were to write the show I'd use the first two seasons to establish the characters and their relationships and plan out how Charlie is going to go about redeeming these sinners. Then amp up the threat level every season to give the cast some sort of obstacle to overcome to reach the overarching goal. Once we reach the final episode of maybe season 4 or season 5, THEN introduce Heaven as the antagonists. (and maybe make it a two-season arc so the episode count doesn't still nerf the pacing) This change can even properly set up the Vees as antagonists and still have them be the main villains of season 2.
2. Establish some proper worldbuilding. There are some lore details left out of the show that only fans are aware of, and this can end up leaving casual watchers confused. This is obviously not good, especially for a show that wants to have lore tied into the story like Hazbin does. I don't wanna take an example from a horrible person to make my point, but a piece of advice given by the infamous Lily Orchard goes as follows: "Twitter is not an appropriate place to reveal story details. The appropriate place is in the work itself." The only reason the fans know so much about the show is because Viv has revealed so much stuff before its release. Plus there's stuff in the original pilot that still relates to the main show that people are unaware of because who the hell is gonna go searching for a UA-cam video to find out why Alastor is working at the Hotel or even who Cherri Bomb is? A few critics on UA-cam have said that watching the pilot answered some questions they had and fleshed out the characters a little more than the series proper. So, easy fix for it: Make the first episode of the series a remake of the pilot to explain some of the character motivations and put important information about the world IN THE EPISODES THEMSELVES.
3. I know some of y'all have been waiting for this one and it's been said a million times, but I also share this issue. Make more diverse character designs. The colors and character shapes obviously aren't as diverse as Viv and many others think they are. I feel like this mostly applies to Hazbin since the characters in Helluva, while most of them are still built like sticks, do have more diverse color palettes than the Hazbin cast. And I personally think the issue with the red isn't exactly that it's in all of the characters' color palettes, but that every character is the exact same SHADE of red. You can definitely still use a limited color palette without making every character the same exact color. There's also the issue of the characters not looking like what they're supposed to be. One example is how you can tell Valentino is meant to be a moth but that same moth theme is pretty much lost with Vaggie, even with the change to her hair. Another is how you can't tell what Angel Dust and Niffty are supposed to be unless you look it up or you're told by someone who's followed these characters for a long time. (hell, Viv did say Niffty is a bug, but she never even specified what kind of bug she is) Small things can just be added to better get the character's themes across. Make Angel look more like a spider, give Vaggie more moth theming (and maybe more muscles to hint at her past as an exterminator), or even give Husk a beer gut. As an artist myself, I wanna tackle redesigning this cast as a practice for making good character designs, I just need to get all of my thoughts down properly before I do anything first.
I do love Vivzie's shows and at times I may come off as a superfan who doesn't want them to change, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. The rose colored glasses came off once Hazbin season 1 ended and while I am pretty okay with what we got, I really want to see these shows improve for the better, however long that ends up taking.
I also wanna mention this other thing since the comment was getting long enough as it was. My main hangup about Hazbin/Helluva isn't necessarily about the characters or writing (even though I have stated my problems with those above), but the fandom and how it's been contributing to the show's terrible reputation.
On one side of things, there’s the stans backing every decision Viv and her team make on the shows, whether they’re good or bad, which leads to people outside of the fandom looking in believing everyone who likes the shows supports the bad things being portrayed within them, which is very much not the case depending on where you look. On the other side, there’s the hatedom trying to bash everyone who even takes a glance at these shows. They stir up needless drama almost every day and are probably just as bad if not worse than the stans. They make me afraid that I'm gonna open my social media to a video of animals getting blended just because I drew a Hazbin character or had something nice to say about the show.
Then there’s the large amounts of little kids coming into the fandom. I firmly believe they’re only here because their parents don’t pay attention to what their kids watch or even put it on because it’s animated. But that doesn’t excuse how dangerous it is for these kids to be in this fandom. They can’t comprehend what’s being discussed in these shows and being exposed to it at such a young age could end up damaging how they process the world growing up. I won’t blame Viv for the influx of kids in the fandom because I don’t think she has any control over it, but this is very concerning.
So with this said, I’m not only hoping for the shows to get better, but the fandom as well. If I were to take a guess, I’d say by some miracle, the shows will improve before the fandom does, but I’m just trying to stay positive in such a hate-filled community.
You couldn't have put it better!
Despite any hate Midoriya (or deku idk which is known more) gets as a character he is still way more dynamic and has more impact than Charlie could ever hope to be or have
I yearn for the day people stop disliking him as an mc, hes legit one of my favorite mc's
Honestly i have respect for Deku as a main character
As a Hazbin fan, don’t let the crazies get to ya. You’re probably gonna get a lot of hate comments for this, so just fair warning. The fandom is crazy unfortunately. Stay safe. ❤
Yeah the person that made this is not wrong. Hazbin Hotel is honestly a bad show and I don't mean any hate, like people can still watch it and I don't judge them.
Can I just say how happy it makes me to hear someone talk about Moral Orel? Its an incredible show with amazing characters that no one really talks about (Forever salty adult swim cancelled it for having a genuine depection of the effects of SA)
(Writing before watching the vid)
I think it’s worse in comparison because the character design is sub-par and the writing is juvenile. Everyone looks the same and they get lost in their own scenes. The artistic direction is interesting but unrefined and are very close to their original tumblr 2010 style. The dialogue and story beats are rapid, shallow, and inconsistent. The cast is overly full of filler characters and there are issues with set up and pay off.
I haven't watched the show yet, but I never really liked Charlie's design, she looks like a literal clown. Idk if that was the intention but it just looks goofy to me
Her pilot design was juat sooooooooo much better
Hazbin feels like it's written by a 14 year old goth girl who makes gacha life (+13 ONLY!!) Videos.
i think Hazbin Hotel is just "the good place" with bad characters and bad writting.
this is off topic but your voice is sooo soothing! i love your voice
9:02 pants photo jumpscare on the speedpaint
24:51 off topic but dose that lil blurb say “do not steal fattie” I can’t tell 😭
It is 🙏🙏💔💔
The biggest reason why the show is SO MUCH MORE DIFFERENT than the pilot (which btw I enjoyed more than the actual show) is becaue 90% OF THE ORIGINAL CAST FROM THE PILOT werent included in the making of the show 😿😿
Dont forget the writers.
off theme, but i am so glad to hear someone else struggle with stuttering, since i’ve always felt like noone else around me has the similar problem😭 i hope that this doesnt sound weird
about vagie and charlie coupel well beford the show expliciti say they in love, my boyfriend thoug vagie was some kind of a nanie for charlie :,)
A friend of mine thought they were just besties before I told her lmao💀😭
Nifty is supposed to be the comedic relief and holy crap did they do her dirty 😭
Comparing her to Todd Chavez, who is also comedic relief, Todd is so much more interesting. In the first season, they present him as someone who can do more, his opportunities are just often ruined by Bojack/self sabotage. He’d aware that Bojack is not a good person but stays anyway since he’s rarely ever forced to get a job or do something productive, as well as him sort of getting used to it even if it really hurts him. He’s self aware but does nothing about it. AND THAT WAS JUST IN THE FIRST SEASON ALONE, NOT EVEN MENTIONING HIM IN THE REST OF THE SERIES.
Compare all that to Nifty and how she’s presented in the first season… yeah, exactly
So hw's self aware? I mean...Nifty is self aware she is just also very stab happy.
@@Jdudec367 it’s the fact that those are her only character traits… at all of Nifftys, and you can’t use the excuse of “it’s only been one season” because Bojack did the same thing and had done it WAY better
@@ToothDecay1965 Her being a cleaning perfectionist and being guy crazy are traist too though, so,,,yeah. Plus do they have the same role? Nifty is one main character but is Todd a deuteragonist? Because if so then that would mean he has a bigger role.
@@Jdudec367 again… those are her only character traits, and their often played up for laughs. At NO point was I ever emotionally invested in Nifty’s character unlike Todd. They both are comedic reliefs in a dark gritty show that are part of the main cast. Todd had some good engaging moments that make him more believable and interesting for the audience … unlike Nifty
@@ToothDecay1965 Multiple traist and ones you still ignored. Well ok...I mean in episode 6 of Hazbin I was emotionally investe in her at that point tbh. I mean she had some moments like that too but probably not as much although then again Hazbin has more main characters to focus on and Nifty isn't even the only comedic main character.
Wanna see a show set in the afterlife that tackles morality?
The Good Place exists
Moral Orel perfected its use of dark humor along with its dark moments. From the beginning, you can just tell how unsettling the townspeople are, because of the humor. The way Orel takes everything so seriously, he sells his own pee, impregnated his whole town, outlawed eggs. It’s funny because of how naive he acts toward such serious matters.
The episode about the women of the town having such tragic stories. It shows us why those characters are such goofy buttheads. But it takes the situation seriously by putting you in their shoes.
I love vivzies work, but she doesn’t know how to write a comedic yet serious story.
But in general, I don’t think any adult comedy could live up to moral Orel.
Hazbin and Helluva aren't even adult at this point, just explicit; I haven't ever met somebody over the age of eighteen who takes an interest in them unless they've directly worked on the show. All of the characters are cardboard cutouts of tired tropes without much exploration or explanation. The worldbuilding people praise Vivziepop for is incomplete at best (what are the actual relationships between different classes of people? We see characters like Blitzo face harassment and judgement for being an imp, but... what does that even entail? Lucifer isn't ever a focus, and Charlie certainly doesn't have any real power in hell despite being a princess---are there actual laws in hell? Who is in power here? The rings of hell are briefly mentioned, but unless you've done actual lore-digging, there's nothing in either of the shows to actually explain them, their leaders... I was too distracted trying to figure out what the hell was going on and why there was suddenly a metaphor for the radicalized lower class trying to assassinate Stolas?? But then Striker calls him and Blitz "superior to other imps" so is it some kind of caste or specific race??? The wiki says that Blitzo considers striker an "obsessive supremacist against royalty", so does he believe that imps are better? While also looking down on other imps? Sure.), and a complete mangling of the setting of hell at worst (Dw guys, the sins are edgy!! But not TOO edgy. Because we wouldn't want them to be evil or anything ahaha. Asmodeus is great.) The themes and dynamics all seem to be grasping at aesthetics more than anything---they want to appear as a deep, worthwhile show, analyzing these poor, deep, tortured protagonists, but... it's just nothing new or interesting. Half of the scenes feel like they've been ripped off those "POV: The her walks away smirking.... but the villain slyly smiles and pulls out a GUN!!!!!" tiktok videos, and the other half seem like they'd fit into a Wattpad mafia AU or the cursed, erratic writing warm up bit that me and some middle schoolers have kept up for too long.
Perhaps I just haven't been on this side of the internet this long, but nothing Vivziepop makes seems unique like people claim it is---her artstyle, while fun and vibrant and obviously very good, is rather run of the mill considering the "edgy alt artist" side of the internet, despite how many fans claim it's groundbreaking. Her characters often seem a step away from the "∑ario" meme, and it's so, so glaringly obvious from how she writes characters like Millie that she relies on traumatic backstories in place of actual depth and thought. It's just disappointing, seeing as how she has ample opportunity to improve with how many people are willing to support her and give her advice, yet her writing doesn't seem to get better---and considering how she's handled criticism in the past, it's doubtful it will anytime soon.
I don't know. Cool video essay, though!!
Quick edit: I did some more research and apparently most of the questions about imps and demon royalty were answered in some of the more recent Helluva Boss episodes that I haven't watched yet. Glad they're actually answering some questions in-show, but... did it really take Vivziepop 19 episodes and an entirely other show to introduce that? And of course the weird-ass discussion of class relationships and power dynamics in Stolas x Blitzo is a whole other can of worms 😭
I need. Viv. to. DARKEN HER RED BACKGROUNDS OR RED CHARACTERS AT THE VERY LEAST!!! omg,, like i literally cant see them..
Or give them various other warm colors 😭😭 like why is EVERYTHING AND THEIR MOTHER RED
OR she could've made heel a more like dark grey/brown plate and made the characters pop more
@@Urmommmmmmmmmmm904 i think its cause its part of her style? ive noticed most of her other work in her channel contain red, pink, and yellow.
She did that in the pilot and it looks so much better. I don't know why she decided to ditch it
That’s why I preferred Vaggie’s old outfit, it was white so she stood out, and it could bonus foreshadowing as an angel
The thing about my relationship with HH has been this: I used to be an avid defender when it first came out, but as I continued writing my book and fleshing out my characters and watching video essays like this, the more I looked to it as a Guide Of What Not To Do While Making A Fantasy Project. The good things I have to say is this: I love most of the music, and the concept of the characters and overall story. However, looking back, it did fall super flat.
Its visually pleasing, the animation is pretty good, but that doesn't shy it away from criticism to its horrible writing
Considering the hype/wait it was disappointing.
Because it's legit not an adult show, I'm literally a hardcore fan of Code Lyoko and have been since a little kid, THAT show is more for adults and even while it has some areas that are what you'd think is for younger audiences, it will treat kids like they are smart and not dumb & show doesnt use adult jokes to give the feeling it is for adults especially with XANA the villain who is way more enjoyable and a good villain & has moments that shows a sliver of goodness like willingly help the kids one time and even has after taking out the Prototype Multi-Agent System made by leader of the heroes which are kids meant to consume and destroy XANA's Monsters and XANA doesnt hesitate on giving the more annoying individual to him Odd the role of General for his Monsters in the digital world Lyoko & XANA has the Monsters once the program is gone bow to the heroes before leaving, XANAs still evil but that moment clearly shows he is able to adapt to situations and just understands when to help humans.
Also none of the characters backstories are in the actual show. I didnt even know Angel was from a crime family or Husk was in Vietnam. That information should be in the media not on the creators twitter😭 also i read lesbian into everything, and i didn’t know they were girlfriends until like episode 5 I thought vaggie just had a onesided crush at most
13:24 listening to this part reminded me of this show I watched recently, the good place, and spoilers for anyone who hasn’t watched it (which I highly recommend watching before coming across any spoilers as it does change the experience you have)
In the show the main characters of the show are basically in hell and listening to this made me realise how the good place not only showed how the main characters in question were bad people in some way but also how they didn’t really deserve the punishment of they were given due to multiple reasons from unintended consequences, the settings they were raised in and even just how severe punishments were for less serious actions which really questioned what makes a person good or bad. I think this was something hazbin hotel was missing, maybe with angel dust for example it could show how since he was born into a mafia family he had no choice to do anything but participate which while shows how he has committed crimes asks if it was completely his fault or if the life he was born into limited his ability to learn how to be good.
UTHHH ur artstyle is SO CUTE they look so jolly the little guys u draw… cute littol smiles it almost pisses me off dude its so cut
I really wish the show wasn't targeted towards teens- even really young kids are watching it 🥲, I also started watching it when I was a teen - But now that I'm an adult , I can really see why kids like it , and I had to distence myself from the fandom becouse of how many kids are in it -
To be honest I thought it was mostly a great show except for the fact that the villains (heaven) were treated like Strawmen. I loved the dialogue, humor, music, and even the overall themes about forgiveness and redemption. But those themes could've been handled with a lot more nuance if characters like Adam and Lute were allowed to have more complex and substantial justifications for their actions than just entertainment or entitlement. I really hope the second season can add that complexity.
the only jokes to make me actually laugh at the show came from Nifty, so I was genuinely surprised when you said Adam was the funniest character. ill be so honest i haaaaate that guy lol. the show would be /significantly/ more tolerable to me if they completely removed him and changed nothing else
otherwise i agree with everything else you presented, especially the part about the show's characterization compared to both adult and kids' shows. I say this as a writer, artist, and hater first and foremost, but also as someone who was lowkey obsessed with the pilot as a 13 yr old when it came out:
this show objectively fumbled so many different elements---characterization, visuals, pacing, writing, plot, humor (basically everything that makes up like 90% of the show's substance, and that's to say nothing of the soundtrack, which I staunchly believe is only enjoyable in a vaccum)---that i highly doubt anybody outside of the large already-established fanbase found it enjoyable, let alone good. I'm sorry to say it's popularity was definitely Not earned
Finally someone else that hate Adam as me!
13:45 fair and heaven is not bad either. the worst they did was kill sinners once a year so that there would be no uprising but no one even knew about exterminations aside from Sera and the exorcists until Adam brought it up. (though i would say Vaggie is kinda wrongly in hell for sparing a sinner) the show is trying too hard to make heaven the bad guys even though they show us how bad the people of hell are (like Alastor, Valentino, Rosie heck even Zestial makes people off themselves when they only see him)
I kinda like Hazbin tbh, it’s good for what it is and I know that’s a hot take
👏👏👏
Very hot take
Oooh,it's fine bread. It's your opinion and we respect it.
It fails to convey any of it's themes and messages in a consistent way. The writers are not good enough at tackling actual morality or redemption as a whole. 10 fucking writers.
Your opinion, and that’s totally fine. Just don’t be the kind of person who’s mad when someone either redesigns the characters or states their opinion :)!
Another thing with the writing is that Adam dying could've been used as a way to make him a sinner in season 2 to show him that redemption is in fact possible, but, no. Viv wouldnt do that
This is my third attempt on trying to word how I feel about Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss. So if I make a mistake, mix topics, MISSES some more explanation in my opinion or repeat things, I apologize :")
As a TEENAGER, I genuinely agree with this video, HH and HB feels more like a show for teenagers instead of adults. Sure, some adults like them but it's MOSTLY teenagers, friends my age love it. And in general, the writing for both HH and HB, ALTHOUGH HB pacing is a lot better than HH, both are quite... messy... it feels more like a 2017 fanfiction sometimes.
I have watched the entirely of Bojack Horseman, some clips of Rick&Morty and other adult shows and I can fully say those shows are made for adults. The story in those shows are amazing despite being comedic or stupid for a plot, but you really want to continue watching with excitement, anxiety, sadness, and whole other emotions the shows make you feel. In HH, I do feel like I kinda resonate with Angel Dust, but there is SO much hypocrisy in Angel actions and how they represents him as a character. I feel like both HH and HB can't really put out a good or accurate representations of REAL PROBLEMS. In BH, the journey with Bojack is something we're supposed to follow and feel for him, but the show CAN show us how his behaviour is NOT okay and the show actually following through with it. Bojack's actions eventually caught up to him and showed consequences. The show actually represented Bojack as he is, a Narcissist, how it isn't as simple as people see it is. However, in HH, Angel Dust consistently catcalling, harrassing his mates, and even Husk that ended up helping him. Yeah, hypersxuality is a thing, but that is NOT how it is, and that CAN be a representation of how abuse can go down to one person to another, the show doesn't SHOW that, and I feel like HH is incapable of doing that (Oh and the show also pushes it to the side as a JOKE but nearly EVERYTHING is a joke and sometimes you can't tell which one is which). There's a lot of other factors why HH and HB feels barely like an adult show or just a show at all.
Edit: Before anyone tries to tell me "Oh, it's hell" for Angel's behaviour, that is BARELY an excuse, this is something I also don't like with the show, how most people tries to reason with the show taking place in hell. Both HH and HB does not have coherent world building (except the parts that are being WORKED on), and you have to watch BOTH shows to have a vision of how the world building in both shows work and that shows a LOT about the writing.
I could say more but it took me 30m or so to type this all down (not counting with previous attempts) and I didn't even dive into the visuals, the pacing, and other side things that make the show... well, show.
tldr: HH & HB is more for teenagers, character representations in the show are not that great, the world building are also not that great, etc.
tldr whole: HH & HB has a lot of problems for it to be an adult show.
note: I love HH & HB regardless but I just wish it was better kek ...also sorry for yapping ae
I'm new to the channel, but I have to say, I love your speaking style! I love that you really only have one long take, because it feels like a convo with a friend! Keep up the cool videos!
The animation in hazbin hotel is good, but the designs are so bad, literally they all mesh and blend into each other + are too over complicated (which isn't good for character design let alone an animated shows cast)
HH and HH have tired me out a bit. i'll still watch both but the thing i hate most about Both shows are the jokes...dear god the sex jokes are the worst... having these jokes in serious scenes takes away from the impact., the swearing is usually unnessecary (unless it's just bliz doing it cuz he's basically brandon rogers) the huskerdust is...not a good ship idea considering angel invades husk's personal space and keeps harrassing him to no end without him ever being called out or being sorry. CHARLIE oh boy ... she has so much potential but she's basically a background character in the show and same for Vaggie because the cast is so large for one season of 8 episodes. also HH is...say it with me now! too much red. be honest. don't giveme the they are in hell excuse because there are clearly chracters like Vox and Zestial who have very little or lack red. the sir pentous joke ....did not need to be there and his death...what a waste. it was not even funny.Charlie is...very naive whish is fine as a chracter flaw but she's 200 years old and considers a lot of people in hell to be innocent is a bit hard to believe unless she's actually just like that.it's a bit..idk how to feel about her character but being naive to a lot of things does not do much for her character. Viv PLEASE you have a WRITERS TEAM . it can save your shows if you actually let them help you write the show . i noticed that viv is good at writing emotional scenes but not how something should lead up to it to make the moment feel earned at times
12:50 that's where Helluva Boss falls flat as well. Anytime there is a character making mistakes, they add context or switch the narrative to make the audience see them as a victim. Bojack Horseman only gives us context to *explain* their behavior, not excuse it. The whole "I am just a product of my environment" just makes hazbin/helluva characters appear as victims with excuses and no room for improvement, whereas bojack puts emphasis on the importance of taking accountability despite being a product of your upbringing. Every character has something to confront in Bojack, but in Hazbin, none of the characters reflect or suffer real consequences. Everything is just one big misunderstanding, or it's all excusable, so there's no growth.
This was so good, i had to watch it TWICE, its all really well written and informed and i literally cant help but agree qith you on EVERYTHING, i'd LOVE to hear ur take on helluva, as i think it has an equal or more amount of issues
aha what do you mean isha died?? no she didnt idk what ur talking about shes very well and alive right now hahahaha
Woohoo, your model looks good! Great video, liked it. I don't have much knowledge on a topic, so not much to add, but liked it.
its the fact that a whole stickman show that has no dialogue or voice acting has better character writing and so much more (talking about animation vs minecraft you should totaly watch it if you havent it’s mind blowing dude) is better than the shows i’ve seen vizie write / create, i used to be a fan of hers when i was younger because of her old animations (such as the die young anim etc.) it inspired me to animate, and as soon as i heard she was making a show i was extremely excited, i was okay with the pilot but after that it just got worse and worse and worse somehow, i cant relate to any of the characters as their minds and opinions switch so quickly and everything?? it feels like she mischaracterizes her own characters, vizie and her show had so much potential yet it’s trying so hard to be everything at once, i barely believe that its targetted to adults at this point because i see so many teens and preteens like her shows, barely any adults. funny enough i actually met an 8 year old who watches hazbin hotel like hello?? it feels like the writing wants to be so mature yet immature at the same time, like you have someone start crying over their trauma in the show and the next second the comedy relief starts talking about boobs and allat. its so odd man. sorry for the yap its just i seriously cant get why people defend vizie sometimes, the writing, character arcs, everything is horrible atp.
I wholeheartedly agree. Vivzie can't have all of her cake and eat it. Once there is a topic that has been firmly established that it's a serious subject, it HAS to stay that way to keep up the status quo. I feel like Vivzie flip flops with this to such a severe degree. It's disappointing that Hazbin to me feels like it's trying and failing to do what other adult animations have already accomplished.
Honestly what makes Hazbin hotel bad is that they decided to make it into a musical, not saying that their music is bad. It's just that it's in every episode to where It gets annoying & how a few songs Don't usually reflect or do anything for a character. Also swearing in every episode gets annoying like just because it's hell doesn't make it well-written, both songs & swear words should've been minimum & the story-line should've been more developed.
Ok...I'm down for criticizing Hazbin Hotel, but let's not pretend the majority of adult animation isn't absolute garbage in of itself. They're bad for different reasons, but they are still bad. Honestly children's animation is where the gold is at. Bojack Horseman, Arcane, and the like are exceptions to the trend, not the rule.
Ain't that the truth
14:03 expect for vaggie and Charlie? Charlie hasn’t actually done anything bad, yes vaggie helped with the execution or whatever, but I’m sure that the angles were forced into it- she deserved better
I saw a joke video about the characters doing “the office” talking to the camera thing and that would’ve generally been better, especially with the small run time.
A show set in hell about a hotel about redemption that leads to the literal PRINCESS OF HELL learning the problems with the Judgment system of heaven and how the first man is a lot worse then some people in hell.
A lot still needs to be fixed to make everything work but it would’ve been much better with the talk to the camera style.
I feel like her main issue is that she's trying too hard to recreate the humor while also having the writing style of a 13 year old girl
innuendos and double entendres will always be funnier than straight out the gate sex jokes and weird rape jokes
your audience has a brain.. you don't need to hold our hands and spoon feed us your terrible joke about sa
25:10 YOU DEFINITELY SHOULD MAKE A HELLUVA BOSS ONE!
I watch Helluva Boss because I love the character designs and animation but the writing is not good 💀 I really respect it though because getting a show about my ocs is goals and you can tell she really loves hers. I get the criticism that most of the characters have the same body type but its not nearly as bad as most anime same face/body syndrome because her characters are inhuman with unnatural colors which makes it easy to tell them apart compared to anime just giving their characters different eye and hair colors
Good video, btw I swear I felt like I was in a sugar rush when I saw the thumbnail