3 Things That ANNOY Me About the Basketball Community
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- An explanation of the things I can't stand within Basketball circles.
-----
Make sure to subscribe for more NBA History!
Follow Me on Instagram!
Instagram: / jonnyarnett. .
Interested in connecting more with the this Basketball community? Join up on Discord.
/ discord
______
The game of Basketball has been my passion since I was 5 years old. I grew up as a kid watching my dad's recorded VHS tapes of playoff games through the 70s and 80s, and collected all the Basketball cards. Something about the game and what it represents just hooked me from a very young age.
My love for the game only continues to grow as time goes on. I love studying and analyzing the game, with an unbiased perspective. Feel free to subscribe, follow me on social media, and celebrate this amazing game and it's rich history with me!
I post videos every week on NBA history, predictions, hypothetical scenarios and current NBA topics.
______
Intro Music: Turn On - RW Smith • Turn On - RW Smith (No...
-----
#nba #basketball #hoops
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
What are things that annoy you?
Literally everyone that thinks LBJ is better than MJ.
Plumbers in other eras
People who say LeBron James could never play in the Chuck Nevitt era of the 80's and 90's.......Nick Wright said it best, to paraphrase. "This idea that the nba in the 80's and 90's was like the Roman gladiators in the coliseum is idiotic. Nba in the 80's and 90's was slightly more physical with much worse athletes"
people who say larry would be average in todays league
Putting asterisks on playoff series. You can only play who is in front of you and in the bubble’s case, everyone is in the same circumstances.
The thing I hate the most about the nba community is definitely the slaves to the moment or recency bias, it really does expose the casuals tho.
Dude same
Sometimes it feels like basketball fans have the collective memory of a goldfish.
fr
What annoys me is when people talk about casuals like they’re scum
@@TheKyubiisaancatch feelings scrub
I absolutely love basketball. It's my favorite sport. I'm so glad you made this video because I've had similar thoughts. The ones I hate are: Young people thinking that anyone before Steph and Lebron are trash or below average. Old people thinking that Lebron couldn't play in the 80s. People thinking that flagrant fouls are the way you're supposed to play defense. People that place Curry higher on the all time pgs list over Isiah and Stockton. The neverending need to try to diminish Michael Jordan's accomplishments. People who criticize Jordan, not the team, for losing from 84-90. People saying Jordan was carried by Pippen. People who think Curry wouldn't destroy the league in the 80s and 90s. Bandwagon fans. People who think Isiah's handles weren't elite and he's not a top 5 ball handler ever. Fans who think that this era of constant CONSTANT 3 point shooting is ok and real basketball. Fans who think that every single team in the league today could beat every team 30 years ago.
I really like this honest take by Johnny Arnett on how the community is , specially quickly dubbing guys of the modern NBA to the top 10 greatest players to play the game . Its the reason I also cant judge Lebron's placement in the top because he is still going to this day . The day you rank a player is the day he steps away from the game , you cant put guys like KD on the top 10 just because of his Physical and skill . You need accolades , numbers and overall impact to really judge a player in the all time ranking and you can only do that the day they retire
My best friend hates the Lakers because he had to deal with a bully that terrorized him growing up that wore a Lakers jersey to school all the time. He loves basketball but anything to do with the Lakers he despises no matter what. If the NBA allowed streams of 70's & 80's games it would change his mind.
The thing that annoys me the most is not recognizing the White Mamba himself, Brian Scalabrine, as the greatest player of all time.
My favorite comment is from guys who say "You're disrespecting Kobe" if you don't put him top 5 all time.
what is annoying is they think they are the sun😂😂😂😂
Wilt really did say that Shaq would struggle against 60s centers? Has he seen Shaq? You mean, Shaq at the same size and skill set in the 60s would have a hard time? Hard time with what? Coming up with new opponents, as everyone would be holding their ice packed ribs.
i think the most annoying thing for me is just people who are close minded.
The most annoying to me is how people say greats from back then like MJ Magic Bird The Great Bill Russell Wilt etc , wouldn’t dominate MAINLY in todays era , EVERY ALL TIME GREAT WOULD DOMINATE OR BE THE SAME PLAYER IN ANY ERA , It’s called adjustments . Yes bron would be just as good as MJ was in the 80s 90s due to his frame he would have been able to hang with those guys on top of already being a beast , yes MJ would literally DOMINATE todays league due to spacing , and positionless basketball 💯 it’s not hard to understand that if your real a bball historian
Stars from the past would improve if played today with access to all the modern benefits. Modern players if the went back then would lose all that
We appreciate that you don’t take this for granted man. It’s a blessing but you’re just reaping the rewards of time invested.
Jonny bringing the heat 😂
Adjusting the basketball landscapes and adjusting joints
He called dem boi Neanderthals,Bru Trippin.
I hate the fact that in order to elevate a certain player’s case to be the greatest, other players within the same goat conversation have to have their legacies brutally slandered. It’s disrespectful to each of the legends, their respective eras, and to the integrity of the game.
Facts, but thats what moves clicks, views and debate shows
Most of those takes arent genuine in the least.
@@Peakfreud Debate Shows are not reliable sources for fans
This. I think Jordan is the GOAT but I still think Lebron is either 2nd of 3rd, at least top 5. Most of the comments on youtube is either Lebron is the GOAT or he is fraud leflop shouldn't even be in top 10 let alone top 50 of all time. I never see Jordan or Kobe fan not hating Lebron on UA-cam to be honest
@@ggh_-ts6pntop 5 NBA defenders of all time
5 Allen Iverson
4 Lebron James
3 Tim Duncan
2 Michael Jordan
1 Kevin Durant
@ggh_-ts6pn this. To me MJ is the GOAT because he just had that aura and idk mystery or something not tangible. Lebron is to me the greatest player ever (statistically complete and the awards speak for themselves). But its like if I even put together a top 5 list all time, if you put Lebron in there at 2, the haters will rag on you quick smart. The only thing separating the top 5 is how much value you put into different aspects of each of their games.
I believe every Great Player in NBA History could adapt to any Era. Stats and play styles will change more to the time period, some players would adapt better and faster than others, but I believe they can still be Great.
Thats not true, especially for big mans, but guards from 80s and back in time could not play today just not even dribbling with one hand .
But other than that i think they would
As great in sentiment as that sounds its not realistic IMO
With all the respect in the world to Cousy I know he's defended as a folklore hero but Nah man....
Anyone watching tape of Cousy and see that right hand dominance and inability to shoot a left hand layup consistently
Would have to pull off the most egregious virtue signal in the world to convince any coach after 1985 to roll him out on the court.
@@raizarslaxterhaha There was different and far more limiting dribbling rules back then. No palming, only fingertips, etc. So this is a context-less take that is terrible. West and co. would adapt if they had full reign of both hands, their palms, etc.
@JohnnyYeet if the grew today they would play as today, but i am talking putting a guy from those days in today. But i would say the same from some players today playing back then
@@mickidoesmedia its not just the rules, those dudes didnt even now how to cross the ball. Wich is fine, nobody should attack them from that, its just how they learned
The three that annoy me are
1. Every title is riggered or weak somehow. Dudes are so salty that their team didn't win that they make excuses.
2. The finals record narrative on both sides. No one NBA player won alone, and the player who won with the least help that being Hakeem is often overlooked.
3. Fans who downplay teammates to make their favorite player look better.
You're targeting bronsexuals
Riggered?
what proof do you have that Hakeem won with the least help?
@@TheTariqibnziyadthat right there using bronsexual why do grown men use that saying it's strange
@@-ac-8296 well having help is kinda subjective so there’s no way to actually prove this claim but just the fact that Hakeem is the only player to win back-to-back rings with no other all star is pretty sick. And the second one of those rings being the lowest seed ever to win a ring as well.
I know one thing that annoys me: you can’t enjoy your team winning a title.
How many times have I heard a title was rigged, unfair (17 and 18 Warriors), Mickey Mouse, changing the narratives when their team loses (Nuggets), etc.
facts, clowns discredit the title almost every single year
@@Mirror_of_the_Soul00 if the nba was rigged the lakers or celtics would win a title every year. they'd have big market teams in the playoffs every year to boost ratings. but that's not the case
One of the most annoying things for me is hearing these people call everything “scripted.” At that point, you’re just being a clown on purpose or are just salty your team lost.
@@tuankhoinguyen9198 you can't make a rig be obvious, that's why it's called rigged for a reason
I wouldn't say the nba as whole is rig, but there's been rig moments in the
nba. For example, the warriors acquiring KD was rigged, especially that just five years earlier they didn't let a prime chris Paul come to Lakers to form a super team.
I think the "weak defense" thing of the current era is at least in a good part caused by the rulemakers of the NBA themselves that made it less attractive or viable to defend properly. They set certain rules in place that make it easier to score and harder to defend, there are almost no offensive foul calls anymore even though they happen all the time but are then seen as a defender foul, which is ridiculous. This also made some players look like crazy scorers even though one of their major go-to moves is to run into the opponent and get a foul call.
I also think officiating in all of the big 4 American sports, football, baseball, basketball, and hockey, is terrible today.
@@georgem3673 always has been
Exactly. Like the players today are more capable of playing defense than past players because athleticism is better, but since the rules heavily favor offense and soft basketball we don’t get to see people get the chance to be good defenders
@@georgem3673 Even in soccer, corruption has come to the surface. The team is support FC Barcelona has been exposed to have biased refs at home. It's quite sad, nobody likes bad refs.
@@SoggySlopster where is the evidence to support players being more athletic today? Can they run faster? jump higher? play longer? get hurt less?
I dunno what's happening in ur life dear Jonny but u're killing it with the consistency .
It’s actually an easy answer. My wife started editing the audio while I handle the footage. It means videos can get posted more often, we make more money, she gets more books for her book hobby, and you guys get more videos! Everyone wins 😂👍 Glad you’re enjoying em
@@jonnyarnett So beautiful, may GOD strengthen ur love my dear Jonny, u're both blessed, thank both of U for these extremely underrated gems, i can't explain how much i learned from U .
Peace & Love 🌹
@@MrTrueCaller619 there ain’t no god 😭
@@jonnyarnett W wife
@@runawaymakefriendswiththem8905 Once upon a time, there was absolutely nothing. Then, BAM everything magical exploded into existence. Right buddy? That makes sooooo much sense right buddy? Right?
Thank you for making such great videos Jonny. How much you are grateful for us we are equally for you.
Jonny gave an entire intro about how much he loves us just to end it with "enough of that crap" LMFAO
My wife and friends know this. If I get too sappy, I get an irrational urge to then be harsh just to balance things out 😂
@@jonnyarnett a video on Dream Team 2 (94 FIBA Team)
I hate the big market bias from casuals the most. I'm a Knicks fan, so my team is one of the biggest markets, but once it was clear that the finals weren't going to be Celtics/Lakers this year, all the causals said it would be boring, same with the Bucks/Suns a few years ago, it's historic to watch a team win a meaningful championship and not just be Steph or Bron for the 60th time
If it’s a good series it’s a good series, and if it’s not, it’s not.
Hot take though: From a fan of neither team, it would be cool to see the Lakers and Celtics play each other in the finals while both teams have won as many
But unfortunately, the NBA is no longer about the beauty of the sport. It's a huge business. Management prefers communities that bring in more money...
@@andrzejzborowski4920the nba has always been a business
@@fortynights1513 Lakers had the opportunity in June
I think the top players will always be great in any era. The top players were so motivated, competitive, and will adjust their game to that era. MJ, Bird, Magic will have no problem in this era. Lebron, KD, Jokic will also be great in the 80s and 90s too.
@TripleThreat One thing they may have to deal with is defenders who are more likely to guard multiple positions.
I’ve heard today’s defenders are a bit more versatile.
But I wouldn’t be surprised if their scoring would have jumped.
I feel like you’re the only UA-camr that really knows basketball and respects history. Big fan 🙌🏾
seek Uncle Hayes
We appreciate you as well JA
1. Agreed
2. Agreed, and a lot of these younger fans when they grow up there going to be heavily biased towards their era anyways
3. Agreed
One thing I'll add is number three in reverse, it's a lot of the younger fans who think athleticism only started in the 2000s
For the 2 and your 3 "in reverse".
Most of younger fans say that in counter to bitter old heads who take any chance to downplay newer players. Also most of younger fans was talking about how Duncan, KG, Shaq or Dirk should be higher in his list, and that they were incoherences in it.
All of them are retired, so to me Jonny just move the discussion of the criticism of his list more than anything
@@paquinraino8180 thank you bro i’m a younger hoop fan i hate chatting with older fans because everything in the 90’s is golden you have to take a fuck these old guys stance just to combat the bs but we can always talk real hoops thou
yea the athletic thing bothers me alot. its very ignorant. it can be clearly seen in alot of timed / measured sports too like track. Bullet Bob Hayes won the Olympics I believe in 1960 with worse track conditions and equipment. Still his 4x100 meter relay is clocked as arguably the fastest of all time even better than Bolt. If Bolt is faster Bullet Bob would still be the 2nd fastest man alive today. The Long Jump World Record is from 1990 and the Olympic record dates back to 1968 (though he had altitude advantage). What makes people think that in the last 50 years "evolution" just went crazy. These things take thousands of years to notice a big difference. Another example is horse racing. Secretariat still holds the track record at the three triple crown races. That horse was from the 1970s. They breed these horses scientifically to get faster yet no one has broken his records. Much different than random human reproduction. maybe the average horse is a LITTLE TINY BIT faster today but that doesn't mean the legends of the past wouldn't still stand out as greats today. it's easily proven by looking at their times
The "He played against plumbers and part-timers" one is really one of the most annoying, like I get that the league was overall less efficient, the pace was higher, so the numbers were inflated, but come on, they didn't shoot double the shots with half the efficiency, so just apreciate, greatness and dominance across the eras
facts the fact that they shot so many shots and still had similar efficiency from the field is so impressive....like imagine if one player took 30 more shots a game...their efficiency would probably drop 10+ % points let alone 3%
or also how people say lebron plays against over paid teenage highschool dropouts and pasty euroleuge players , its so annoying...like yes there's more space and the rules are a lot more lax on the offensive end making the offensive production highly inflated...but its not like its not basket ball...like yes they can Tavel and carry and offensive foul, but a lot of the good players based their skills off of fundamentals and would be able to reduce their game in order to play in the 60s and 70s...like people are so dense😂
aight but Mikan and cousy really did play against plumbers, since an entire portion of the population wasn’t allowed to play, segregation hoopers don’t get respect
@@bighomiechanga9972 Yeah, agree with you, I'm talking more about Wilt, Russell, big O, those guys, they don't get the respect they deserve
@@bighomiechanga9972 i think Mikan could play today...he'd just have a very ..VERY...reduced role I could however see him being a 12, 8, 8 guy...he'd be a better defender and have more hustle than jocik...he'd
Probably shoot
He'd prolly have less than a block and steal every game maybe at most 2 or 3 blocks in a game(or whatever jociks career high is)
48/36/85
On 36 minutes
And to be completely honest I think he would be a better rebounder than jocik😭
You a blessing to me Johnny.
Fr tho. The most unbiased basketball fan fr
Most annoying thing about NBA fandom is how removed many of the narratives about players are from the actual players themselves. Players like Dame, Russ, or Jimmy get their names dragged through the mud sometimes even though they're all doing everything they can to win
Another great vid and I could go on about my list but thank you for the vid
"Unlike you the NBA was not born yesterday". That is HILARIOUS. 😂☠️
It’s been ‘round since the Truman years
This is why this is one of my favorite 🏀 channels.... Jonny has the most unbiased takes 💯
Most annoying thing in the basketball community has to be the goat debate. You have fans of a player down playing other great players legacies to make their favourite player seem better.
Just admire every great player that we are able to witness.
Appreciate the fact that the players in said debate are or were in said debate
That’s what I do, it especially comes to LeBron James
@@WDB2005 you are correct LeBron fans are the worst
@@Sf75178 MJ fans won that title after ESPN ran a community poll for "Who was the GOAT college basketball" and they voted MJ #1. ESPN gave knowledgeable basketball fans a chance to speak and the MJ nation couldn't let him not be #1 at something.
The right answer, to any knowledgeable basketball fan is:
A. - Obviously not MJ.
B. Probably unarguably Kareem
lol it even applies to the replies on this comment
It’s not that they wouldn’t survive; it’s that they would be diminished players in that era. Maybe the hand check keeps Steph to being an all star instead of an all time? Maybe LeBron doesn’t have the longevity when he gets hammered night in and night out? Maybe he only gets to the top 10 of all time instead of top 5? Still would excel, but they would not perform to the same levels as they have.
Personally I'm disappointed that the 70's are so overlooked in the NBA community. 8 different teams won titles in that decade. Hoping that the current trend of NBA parity will bring more recognition of that era.
Great vid! Everything you say is spot on!
ESPN
Sunday night Lebron misses a 15 footer in the 3rd quarter.
Monday on ESPN Does Lebron have enough energy left for another title run?
Tuesday on ESPN Does Lebron have the drive and the will for another Title run?
Wednesday on ESPN Lebron washed his car today, but missed the tires.
Thursday on ESPN That missed shot in the 3rd quarter, does it effect Lebrons legacy?
Friday on ESPN for the 2978th time Is Lebron better then Michael?
Hello. Just wanna help out the video.
dawg ive loved your content for a while and i gotta appreciate ur intro. much love man
Jonny love the vids man, been watching for a few years now and I enjoy ur content man ur voice is so calming, can tell your a genuine dude, keep up the amazing work man
i LOVE how unbiased you are to everything
No one does basketball videos like you do man, keep it up
Impartial content like this is why this is my favorite basketball channel. Youve been on fire lately man.
A 4th one is when Older fans say Jordan would Average 45-50 points a game today
Or Modern fans LeBron Would average 45-50 in the 80s and 90s
I certainly commend you for your Christian faith 🩷🙏😇, and it’s GREAT to know that I have both an AMAZING sports commentator and Brother in Christ in you ❤️😊!!!
What annoys me is that they said back then they were no competition back then and said Micheal Jordan didn’t have competition to be the Goat
The thing I hate the most is players putting the end result of a game over the players health. I'll never forget watching the Warriors vs the Kings these playoffs and someone I was watching with kept hoping that Sabonis would get injured and was visibly happy when Fox broke his finger. I was rooting for GSW too, they're my favorite team, but I think it's absolutely disgusting to pray for another person's downfall.
Oh my god the “They wouldn’t survive today” “Plumbers” mentality makes me want to gouge my eyes out. People ONLY use it in sports, because if they used it in the real world, they would look fucking ridiculous.
“That Socrates guy was just a random ancient Greek transient, he was only so respected because basically everybody back then was illiterate.” Okay, yep, that means everything that he did was irrelevant. Yep, it’s definitely no longer true that a select group of himself and a few contemporaries basically laid the foundation for all brilliant philosophers that would follow him. HIS contributions to philosophy are invalid because everybody else AROUND him wasn’t as smart as he was, that makes a lot of sense.
You’re definitely not Bias to older players, your educated on basketball history. I feel you on that and I hate when people do that shit too
Johnny is probably the least bias basketball UA-camr that I watch
To some people, older players played against pygmies who worked as plumbers.
They never seen Mario jump.
Easily my biggest pet peeve is how often people make narratives or claims about how much better certain players or teams are without backing it up at all. The amount of times people have told me “x” player is better than “y” player and when I ask why and the response is always something akin to “you gotta be stupid if you think y is better than x bruh” please if you’re gonna make a statement like that, back it up
I REALLY hope people realise just how much rule changes (and their enforcement) affected performances/production across eras. Not to mention the equipment! A change in equipment in the early 70s was enough to get people's turnover percentages significantly lowered on average and shooting percentages to practically balloon! Athleticism and speed are not the be-all end-all of basketball, because if that were the case Usain Bolt and Asafa Powell would have been all-timers. James Harden wouldn't have been able to produce in the 50s because the hemisphere restriction and switching hands wasn't allowed so freely in accordance to the rules; the same way how a guy like Hakeem Olajuwon would have been hampered defensively by the rules of the late 10s and early 20s as they wouldn't have allowed his brand of help defence.
You are the product of your time: you have to maximize your opportunities. Even Michael Jordan said that eras are hard to compare and arguing who the greatest was was virtually impossible because rule changes and equipment changed how the game was played. If 3-pointers were available in the 1960s, Jerry West would have been the GOAT, probably. In fact, I think we might have a different conversation of GOATs in this era if they brought back the single-dribble rule from the 50s to this era. You can have fun analyzing and giving critique, but ultimately, the great players are the great players. Hypotheticals will always, sadly, remain hypotheticals.
Jahlil Okafor would have been a monster in the early 90s in the half-court/grind-out boom. Stephen Curry would have been smothered in the late 1970s because the league was bleeding and refereeing was more about letting people leave the court sober than it was about actual enforcement of rules (incidentally, this actually is my case as to why Kareem is DEFINITELY not in the GOAT conversation, natch). Hell, we know how a good GM and system can make or break a player's career. It's just so hard. Let's say you put LeBron in the 1960s but he plays for the Detroit Pistons and their absolutely shitty situation, or if Kobe Bryant managed to join up with Wes Unseld in the 1970s.
It's just really hard. Right now we live in an era that gives a green light to scorers and ticket to willing defenders. If Michael Jordan was born at a time that allowed him to peak now maybe he wouldn't be as revered on defence and seen as a free scorer instead of a two-way player.
Who drafts him?
Who coaches him?
Who plays with him?
It's a doozy.
Here’s my unpopular opinion; I wish coaches would go back to wearing suits.
I didn't know they ever stopped. I haven't watched since the 2016 finals, tho
Jonny you earned my sub. It's not just history in Basketball. It's history to fit their narrative. And it's corporate driven.
Sure more fans are going to be excited about basketball if you always tell them that what has happened in the last five years is the best ever. Capitalism leaves no room for tradition, salvation from forgettness (sorry, English is not my native language, but you get what I mean) etc. Not just in basketball, not just in sports, but period.
It’s cool that you take more sides of the conversation into perspective. Jordan said it the best. Why would you compare players from different eras when they didn’t even have the chance to compete against eachother?
All of these “hot takes” are just barber shop talk basically. It’s bullshit. I believe the greats would be greats in every fucking era. If they were given the same conditioning, facilities, training and equipment.
I can’t stand when people say lebron is a loser because he lost 6 finals when his career finals stats are 28 10 and 8
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 same exact pet peeves with the basketball community. There's irrational people on both sides of the older vs newer generation conversation. I personally only compare basketball between 1980 -2020 because of the differences in rules and regulations being drastically different outside of that time period ie no 3pointer and the play in tournament being a thing
I think what annoys me the most is the way people use context when it supports their claims but then choose to neglect shit when it doesn’t.
For example, I’ve seen people saying that Larry Bird CAN’T be in the conversation for best 3pt shooters ever (and they don’t even differentiate overall shooting from 3pt shooting, but that’s another discussion), because he doesn’t have the volume and such!.. while those same people will totally discredit someone like Wilt Chamberlain because he played in a different era 😅
So, which is it?! Bird can’t be amongst the best (3pt) shooters because he didn’t shoot a lot of them like today, but then again Wilt scored 50 points per game which is FAR BEYOND what anyone else has ever done but but but.. he’s not the GOAT scorer because he played in certain era and whatnot! Like I’ve said, only using context when it matters.
At the end of the day, what’s MOST important is what a player has done against his competition and in his era, because he can’t change that! We have to look at what he did in regards to his peers… how many MVP’s, how many times he lead HIS league in scoring, in 3pt shooting, so on!
Larry Bird didn’t grow up with the 3pt-line and didn’t play in 3pt era! Ofc if he played nowadays he would be shooting WAYYYY more 3’s than he did, so… And he won three straight 3pt contests in spectacular fashion! He was 7x top10 in 3%, once 2nd and once 3rd! He lead the league in 3pointers two times, and was 5x top5!
What more could he have done?! Played with a (nonexistent) 3pt-line while growing up?! Dictate the way the game was played?! Shoot 10 3’s a game when not even WHOLE TEAMS back then were doing that! Grab a Delorean and come to the future?! 😅
He showed what he could do with the 3pt-line REGARDLESS and despite everything else! Showed he could be a killer, and dominated his competition! That’s the best anyone could’ve did, that anyone can do…..
And obviously Wilt wouldn’t be averaging 50 ppg if he played nowadays, or whatever.. does that mean he wouldn’t totally dominate any era? Ofc not! That whole Time Machine argument is also ridiculous! You can’t grab a player from back when and insert him out of the blue in today’s era, let’s say!
Like Bird and the 3pt line.. Wilt would’ve had access to modern shoes, modern medicine, modern training, modern overall luxuries, so on and so forth!
Human being is not developing into something considerably more athletic in 100 years or so 😅 Not even close! We’d have wings by now then! C’mon… What improves is what I’ve mentioned, and Wilt (or whoever) would’ve had access to that TOO. And Chamberlain is easily one of the GOAT athletes.
Same way that a player from today, would’ve had a different “style” if he played back when!
Can’t compare raw numbers like that…
Shit, not even.. 30 points per game nowadays is the same as 10 years ago! Just to demonstrate how quickly the game changes.
For example, LeBron at 37/38 years old suddenly is scoring 30 ppg when he didn’t do it since 2010 😄 League had more than 5 players scoring over 30 ppg this year.. not even 1 in 2013!!!!
LeBron being at 30 ppg at 38 is more a representation of a problem of construction in the Lakers roster and injuries from AD than from him not being able to do it with Wade and Bosh next to him, that just stupid to say that. Lebron is a pass first player, if he scored a lot that just show a problem in your roster and Lakers outside of the last part of this season wasn't doing great since 2020.
Also the offense, the ball movement, the off ball movement and pace have changed since 2013 resulting to that big offensive explosion which started in 2015 but really was effective in 2017
Wilt was already criticized AT HIS TIME for caring more about his stats than playing real team basketball like Russell, people criticize the fact that he wasn't as dominant in the playoffs than during the reg season, for example to me Baylor and West were more dominant in the playoffs than Wilt, stepping up their impact AND numbers when it matters same for Sam Jones or Havlicek.
It's only when he became less coring oriented and more of a team player than he started to win, to we can easily argue that the 67 sixers were Hal Greer's team and the 69-72 Lakers were West and Baylor's team. Also 7'1 Wilt poor performance vs and injured 6'9 Willis Reed is something I hold against him, like the only year the Lakers won was in 72 when Reed didn't play and Frazier was playing injured, the next year an injured Reed come back and dominates Wilt again. Wilt is criticized today for the same reason he was criticized back then AND REASON WHY WILT DIDN'T WIN MVP that year.
For Larry Bird I agree with you, but people who say that talks about overall 3pts specialists rankings, and a lot of old head want to put him ahead of Dirk, Miller, Allen, Curry and Thompson which doesn't make sense, he is one of the best at it and one of the pioneer just like McAdoo is the pioneer of shooting big man but when come to overall all time classement you got to go to the facts not just supposition and speculations just like Jonny reason for not putting Jokic or Giannis higher because for now they don't have the career numbers even if they're doing all time seasons for years now.
@@paquinraino8180 Yeah, totally stupid to say 🙄😅 Stick to that though.. but neglect the fact that more than 5 players scored over 30 ppg this year, and you had NONE in 2013 (10 years ago)!! I was just showing an example of how the game quickly changes, and just saying that you can’t compare raw numbers like that, rather yet.. you see what a certain player does relative to his league/competition. But yeah, you’re the type of person I was talking about.. that ignores context when it doesn’t serve their claims, then brings it up when it does.
I can see that my whole point went over your head though…
And why are you rambling on about Wilt?! What the hell? I was merely using Wilt’s scoring as an example, and here you go with bullshit talk and narratives, like it pertains to the subject at hand 😅
As for Bird.. yes it does make sense. I’m not saying he’s CLEARLY a top5 3pt shooter or the GOAT 3pt shooter, but you can easily make a VERY SOLID case for him being a top5 GOAT (3pt) shooter or whatever! But again, my whole point went over your head. Matter of fact, thanks for proving my point.. with your ignorance, and with stuff like saying that one CAN’T have Bird as a top5 (3pt) shooter of all time!
Wtf is that talk about pioneers? 😅
You judge players by what they’ve done against their competition, their peers, their league.. they can’t change when they’ve played, and we can’t be using that whole Time Machine argument! It’s like if Bill Russell played today he’d STILL have to be paid what he did back then, still wear Chuck Taylors, still deal with stuff from back then, have no access to modern medicine, have to fly coach, so on.. 😂
And you also can’t compare raw numbers off the bat like that… I’ve just showed you exactly why, but you can’t grasp it!
You mention Dirk? Well, Dirk was NEVER in his career top10 in 3% for a season! He never was top5 in 3pts made, and only twice in the top10! But Dirk can be a top5 GOAT 3pt-shooter and Bird can’t?! 😅 Again, Larry who won 3 straight 3pt contests, lead the league in 3pts made twice and was top5 5x! Was 7x top10 in 3%, once 2nd and once 3rd!
Oh, so you wanna go with the raw numbers?! Again, prime Wilt HAS TO be the GOAT scorer, because nobody can fuck with 50 points per game! Elgin Baylor is like the 3rd best scorer ever or something, because he’s 3rd all time in points per game! Wilt, Bill Russell and Bob Pettit the 3 GOAT rebounders! James Harden has more made 3’s than someone like Dirk, even Jason Kidd does! Kyle Lowry has way more 3’s than Bird and more or less the same career percentage.. who the hell would want Lowry over Bird as a 3pt shooter?! 😅 Tim Legler once shot 52% from 3pt land for a season, he JUST HAS to be a top5 all time shooter, right?!
But bring up some totally bullshit discourse.. about someone padding their stats or whatever; like it has anything to do with this discussion.
Stop contradicting yourself.
What does finishing a career, and career numbers have to do with what I was talking about?! Once again, you compare players relative to their peers, their competition.. how many times they’ve lead the league in scoring, in rebounding, in 3pt shooting, whatever it may be! MVP’s they’ve won, so on…
They can’t change when they’ve played! You can’t really compare raw numbers across eras. Shit, even career numbers!.. I’ve showed you that Harden has more 3’s than someone even like Reggie Miller!! Does that make him a better 3pt shooter? Obviously not!
I just killed your whole bullshit narratives.. please, stop it.
Well said
You are by far my favorite NBA UA-camr and content creator. I wouldn't listen to what they had to say about the top 30 video. NBA fans are the most caught up in the moment. I like that you always apply things in their proper context and historical profile. Thank you
Aww, we love you too Jonny🙏🏾‼️
I'm glad you pointed out that older guys like Wilt and Dr. J also routinely criticized the NBA of the late 80s and 90s. Every older generation condemns a younger generation, and every younger generation laughs at the older generation. Top 10 and top 20 or 30 lists are always subjective. Dr. J for instance only lists the guys he grew up watching in his Top 5, meaning Wilt, Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson, Bill Russell, Jerry West, people like that. Modern fans might, just might put Wilt in a top 5, but a lot of times not even him, and everyone usually forgets the other dudes. I'm not sure whose more annoying, older fans or younger fans. I wasn't around for Wilt and Russell, or really even Dr. J. But I watched Michael Jordan in the 90s, so to many younger guys, I'm "an old head", because being around for Mike in the 90s is like telling people you watched Moses or Jesus play ball to a lot of younger guys.
im a 90s fan but Wilt is still number 1 to me. Anyone who doesn't put him in their top 5 is ridiculous. look at the record books
@@tomdemay6147 dude was just 7 foot westbrook
@@DonSMDT while i wouldn't rate westbrook nearly as high its a good comparison to me and makes some sense because i'm a big westbrook fan lol
@@DonSMDT lol
@@DonSMDTYou’re trolling right? You can’t be serious.
One thing that annoys me is old heads saying today's players wouldn't be as great offensively yet never mention how most would be better defensively because of those same rules..
It's almost like he knows what I'm thinking all the time
Even though me and you don't have the best eye to eye takes atleast this one we both can agree that your facts are valid 💯
Also about the "wouldn't survive in tougher era" narrative, when talking about Bron is just objectively wrong. People take his flopping (which as every other flopping player, he does for competitive advantage, not because he is soft) from recent years and forget that teenager Bron was bullying grown men in 2000's, which for most people is recognized as the hardest defensive era. We don't have to speculate, he did that, it's astonishing how many people ignore that fact.
Except it has some merit in Curry’s case. A lot of guards thrive from the touch fouls of this wra and rule changes minimizing carries and travels. Same with James Harden. They are great but both would struggle in those eras. Especially Curry with his build. This was proven in the playoffs when he faced super physical defense. I am a big Curry fan, but I have seen it time and again. Now Bron wouldn’t have any issues. He has the build that could handle any era
Really? "Most people recognize the 2000's as the hardest defensive era"? Are you on drugs? What do you base that statement on? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. And tell me LeBron doesn't flop more often now than when he was younger. For whatever reason the fact of the matter is, LeBron's traveling and flopping are mostly ignored by the refs.
It's called tribalism and favoritism... it's a generation thing. Always has been.
I don’t believe in the GOAT debate. I think there are GOATs of different eras, and people need to respect that. I consider MJ the GOAT of the 90s, but Lebron the GOAT of the 2010s. You can’t compare players that never even played against each other in their respective primes. Also people like to use rings as their only argument, which if we went off that, the GOAT would be Bill Russell
Love your commitment to the history of the game and making sure OG players get the recognition they deserve
Most people aren't basketball historians. A lack of perspective and rule changes of the game is often the worst when arguing basketball. Old head have a leg up in their argument though. Rule changes make the game easier offensively and harder defensively.
Its easier to believe someone who played ball for little money, on Converse, who learned strict rules and fundamentals, played before widespread PED, media hype to boost their ego, who played a system and got no preferential treatment, etc. Who endured traveling in a bus 200 days a year would't benefit from softer rules, better travel and equipment/training? Flipside, if a modern player travels back they have to adjust their game to stricter rules, less space, less money, clout, and riding a bus instead of a private plane, lesser sports medicine and all that.
Its easier to loosen up than to button down. That and modern players have modern stats and accolades not available to past greats. Russell is the league's best defender/winner and has like 2 all def teams, 0 dpoty, 0 finalsmvp, 0 recorded blocks, 0 recorded steals or 3 pt shot to bring to the goat convo. Damn Finals MVP is named after him, won 8 in a row and 11 total and yet Jordan fans go 6rings, 6 fmvp's and 1 dpoty and that makes it a open/shut case. Or Dwight is a better defender because he has 3 dptoy and 3 block titles. XD. At least old head have watched a few generations when spitting nonsense.
Another common W by Jonny. Totally agreeing with all your takes here 💯
6:39 Wilt I love you but all due respect , how can you say Micheal wouldn’t be as great of a player in your era when Elgin Baylor was easily top 4 in your era , An Elgin Baylor who constantly took it to the cup 😂😂 Micheal would have been just fine . Again with all due respect because wilt is another guy who some fans in the community seem to think wouldn’t dominate in any era as well , this man was and still is the GREATEST ATHLETE in any sport of all time 💯💯
I just wanna say that since my early days I grew up as football (soccer for u americans lol) fan and I’ve never been interested in any other sports, but that all changed when I started watching basketball and I honestly fell in love with it. By watching your videos, I gained a lot of info about the game of basketball that I wait for your next video every week. Thank you so much man, I really appreciate you🤝🏻❤️
Canadians also call it soccer, so do the Japanese and Australians.
@@georgeprchal3924 Yeah but it's the americans who make that word popular
@@legrandelysee98 the word was invented by the English.
@@georgeprchal3924 it came from the word association football
@@georgeprchal3924 USA made it popuar
It's societal in general kind of problem but it invaded NBA community too
Arrogant ignorance
People don't know they clearly casuals but still thinking they the shit
When I critique the modern game, it's not anecdotal evidence. It's based on the written changes to the rules, and *regular* no-calls on charges and travels. Were there no-calls in the past? Sure. But if you think the officiating in the NBA hasn't gotten incredibly lax, then you've simply not been watching.
Here's what has happened, and why: The general level of skill in NBA players dropped, as more and more players were being drafted without collegiate experience, or with far less of it. The inevitable result: More street ball moves, and less disciplined play. Less footwork. Less fundamentals. And, above all, sloppy dribbling. The NBA refs can't whistle every play dead, so they start letting traveling slide. Eventually, fans and commentators begin to point out some of the most egregious examples of traveling. Shaq makes an entire segment on 'Inside' ridiculing the phenomenon. The NBA's official response? Rewrite the rules to liberalize the dribble rules by adding the 'gather', as if the two steps you used to be permitted weren't there specifically for that purpose: To let the player regain control of their momentum, and gather the ball.
Now that that's dispensed with: There is no such thing as a "community". Groups don't exist. That isn't to say you can't point at a set of individuals and slap a label on them, but that doesn't actually give them any traits in common. There *IS NO* basketball community. They don't subscribe to the same newsletter, they don't adhere to the same opinions, they don't agree on how the game should be played. A huge number of NBA fans evidently love the floptastic game of HORSE we see in the modern game. And good for them. I'm glad they're happy. But that doesn't mean I have to pretend that theyr'e not full of shit when they say that defense is just as good now as it was in the 1990's, while watching highlight after highlight of guards blowing by bigs for layups, taking three and four steps after the last dribble.
The criticism definitely isn’t about you then at all. I do mention later in the video that if you get into the details (like how the rules have changed), then it’s a great discussion. The whole “this guy was lazy on defense, therefore the whole era is bad” is what drives me insane.
@@jonnyarnett Yes, I admit I started writing that post before I had watched the entire video. But I do feel it's important to defend some old-head criticisms of the way the game works.
Now I do *totally* agree that "they wouldn't survive" is asinine. You're trying to tell me that LeBron James can't manage in the 1980's when when he's 6'9" and 250 pounds? What makes the great players great is that they adapt to the game, and have the physical ability to make the game adapt to them.
@@jonnyarnett a video on Dream Team 2 (94 FIBA Team)
First of all, a very good vid. The thing wich annoys me the most ist this habbit of journalists and others (youtube ect) to claim that everything is historic... bla bla bla... or rank current players in an historic view. For incance what you ve said bout Jokic is 100% right. He hasn t even completed his jurney across the NBA and everyone wants to put him somewhere on a list. I think activ players don t belong there, cause they ain t done jet. Make a resumee a year after retirement or so. And that s what annoys me the most. Cill ppl
Honestly my biggest annoyance in the nba is the discrediting of lost finals, but act like never getting to the finals in a season is better than losing it. This doesn’t just go to the goat debated either, but look at guys like Allen Iverson or Jerry West. Their talents and efforts get diminished because “they didn’t win enough.”
Okay so correct me if I’m wrong your annoyed by people NOT glorifying losing ??? because nobody is saying losing in the first round is better , losing in the finals is still losing I will say it is an accomplishment just to get there obviously but almost no cigar is still , no cigar , nobody cares about the 73-9 warriors because they LOST , same with any other finals loser , only fans who care about finals losses and prop them up are bron fans cause he has so many
@@dutchpackdior2178 I'm not glorifying losing, but people act like not making the playoffs and losing in the finals are the same thing. I'm saying that people need to look at all losses in context and not just "well they lost so clearly they suck" in the case of AI, he literally lost against a prime Shaq and Kobe on one of the most dominant teams of all time but will hold that loss against him as though he was the reason they lost
I hate how they discount the greatness of a player even though he went to the FINALS many times even though he lost some of it. Only in basketball I see this type of criticism. Smh.
damn, Bron is 25% older player lol
That’s the thing that’s funny about the biggest Bron Stans. They act like Jordan’s era was full of plumbers, but Bron damn near played in that era too! 😂
@@jonnyarnett a video on Dream Team 2 (94 FIBA Team)
What bothers me the most is the "when healthy" or "when playing" attitude towards players. There seems to be no consideration given, when talking about how good a player is to how many games they actually play. I don't care how good a player is when he is playing, if he misses a quarter of every season he's not doing his job properly and deserves to be marked down for it.
Defense
In the 90s u could put hands on the offensive player and steer where he goes
That’s way harder then todays cupcake junk
A big man at the rim protecting the rim makes driving way harder then todays wide open lane
Im an 02 baby but my generation is so toxic and stupid in the basketball community nowadays espicllay on social media. I started watching Basketball in like 06 and up until I'd say 2014 the community wasn't as bad then because social media was yet to reach it's peak. But ever since everyone my age has gotten old enough to have a phone and let their little opinions be known it's gotten worse and worse. The older generation is annoying too ngl, like you said they always make it seem like it was the Roman Colosseum back in the day & new gen players couldn't survive. I appreciate both ends of the nba's history & I've done a good bit of watching as much film/highlights of older teams/players as I could to form actual valid opinions and statements. I just wish both sides could appreciate each others POV while being educated on the history of the league as a whole before they say some wild stuff online and sometimes in person.
@@KadenWilliamson-m8q I remember Wade winning the chip in 06, and that entire 07 season is when I sat down and started watching it with family. I was conscious and aware of what I was watching even if I didn’t statistically know everything 😂 I went back and looked at everything once I got older though. But yes I do remember everything from 07 onward lol
Jesus loves you. John 14:6 6 Jesus said to him, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. God bless you
God bless you and your family Johnny. Another🔥🔥🔥🔥 video. 🤜🏽🤛🏽💯
People love to talk longevity until it's time rank a modern player it's actually ridiculous
One thing that annoys me is when people diminish and dispise Bill Russel because the time he played in nba (60s), but at the same time love and praise Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor and Jerry West by their records and gameplay, being that all this guys have played majority in the 60s too.
LeChoke is physcially strong but extremely mentally weak.
wuv u too jonny boy
Don't rush to the love. I get violent towards the middle. lol
@@jonnyarnett 😳
I don’t like how people have to tear players down to big up others. If you gotta shit on a legend to prove a point about ur favorite player than the other guy is better
Wilt’s disdain towards MJ was out of this world. It was insane.
If MJ played in Wilt’s era he seriously would’ve scored 75 a game
MJ would have ate well, but a lot of superstars would have. The pace was insane. The season wilt averaged 50, teams were averaging roughly 118 points a game. That’s the highest ever. Not trying to disrespect the dudes who did incredible things in that era, but I’m just saying that it was definitely a scorers friendly era
Yeah maybe he woulod have a couple of 70+ games but if you talk about him average 75+ PPG you are insane I believe the absolutely max a player could or can average is around 50 PPG like Wilt did but he also played every minute every game and I really dont believe Mj would get as high as 50 PPG I could see him have a couple of seasons in the low 40s at best 43-44 and maybe another season with 42-41 and a 40.4 PPG and a couple of season with him averaging in the high 30s like a 39.2 a 38.4 and a 37.6 and then slow a little down like he did from the 80s to the 90s so in the end he may end up average 35.7 for his career and 36.3 in the playoff not to far from what he did with the Bulls when he average 31.5 in the regular season and 33.4 in the playoff
Give me a break could would should it's not going to happen never going to happen why waste time even thinking about it. He would have done this no he would have done this you don't if anything would happened. Hell mj might not have played basketball. If ifs where dollars I'd be rich. No one generation is not better then another one player from one generation is not the best. Game rules players they all change. You might be able to say 1 or 2 players are the greatest of their generation but not overall the greatest it don't work that way.
@@jonnyarnett a video on Dream Team 2 (94 FIBA Team)
I swear people the "IF" Scenario. The only way to prove an "IF" scenario is to create a time machine and put that person in the situation and see what happens.
First video I’ve ever liked before watching, already knew 👏
🎉❤
are you denying the fact that it is easier to score today as the defense is not allowed to do any real contact, otherwise it gets called a defensive foul instantly - while the offense can do anything they wish. are you denying that fact ? 😳
Jokic still a fraud
😂😂😂 no he isn’t
I assume u're being sarcastic, so, good one .
i agree and i am a dumbass
Another thing that bugs me is how overreactive NBA fans/media are, during the playoffs, NBA Twitter was so unbelievably annoying at how every series was decided after 1 game or how peoples view of players change after every game, Jimmy Butler, Anthony Davis, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Bam Adebayo all were at some point talked about like they were the best player in the league and the very next game would be talked about as if they were the worst player in the league, a lot of NBA fan’s opinions are rollercoasters ever changing in an exaggerated and overreactive manner
The 90s WAS softer compared to wilts era, as is being said about the era today compared to the 90s. When people bring up hand checking they don’t realize that it’s not just handcheck or no handcheck, the handcheck rule was modified in Jordan’s time to make it harder to big men to hard steer smaller players. People just lump the 90s with “physical” defense when they don’t realize it was even more physical before the 90s
Great video
This from new gen also very annoying: Plumbers era.
If I don’t have a better reason to subscribe now I never will🔥
MJ would have killed this era, his era, any era
Most annoying thing for me is the 'perfect ring' mentality so many fans have, if you didn't have a 94 Rockets or 2011 Mavs run then your ring ain't worth shit, and don't get me started on the whole 'hospital ring bs'
I think defense is worse now, because of the rules, the resting culture plays a part too, and the offensive players now have way better handles Makin it harder to guard them... It's kinda like blaming big men for shooting 3s instead of playing in the post, rules don't allow them to play like that...