Freedesktop BANS Hyprland Maintainer
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- A Sad Day in Linux Desktop Land...
Website Guide: christitus.com...
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In the realm of free software and open source, the spirit of community stands paramount. It's crucial to recognize that political opinions, regardless of their place on the spectrum, can sometimes lead to polarizing changes. What seemed extreme five years ago may not hold the same weight today. This shift in perception underscores the need for ongoing dialogue and adaptability.
We must also acknowledge the varied experiences individuals bring to our community. Not everyone has faced harassment, and as a result, some might not grasp the impact of their actions or words. It's essential to approach these situations with empathy and understanding. An apology, as Chris highlighted, can be a powerful step toward healing and moving forward.
Positivity should be our guiding principle. Let's focus on contributing constructively and recognizing the efforts of all members. It's important to ensure that no one feels marginalized. Our community is diverse, comprising individuals with different levels of resilience and sensitivity. By organizing our communities thoughtfully, we can create an environment that respects this diversity and maintains a balance that keeps everyone content and engaged.
Very well said. I know sometimes I can be insensitive and brash. However, when I screw up, I'll own up to it, say sorry and do better.
Most of this drama could easily been avoided, but instead it worsened by assuming the worst and responding in an emotional state. I've done this before and always regret it.
False. Never apologize to these people.
So it's the person fault for being banned now?
who_cares..
None the less FDO is way out of line here. They interject their own politics into other projects. Its none of their business. This does not mean I agree on how things were handled on Hyprland's side.
Better to get banned than let those people think they can influence you
Better to get banned than not be a screeching edgelord*
😒@@JS-kr7zy
That's a stupid take.
It's better to just get along with people and don't be racist.
Don't be a dick.
Apparently not everyone is capable of doing this and this guy got banned because he was incapable of not being a dick.
In a normal workplace if he was creating a hostile work environment by bullying others he'd be fired. How is this any different?
Ye like a 7yr old kid saying "Fu*k you". Titus was right stop fighting like damn kids
@@StaceyAyodele There was no reason to ban him.
Just little crybabies, making trouble over 2 words.
Only idiots use pronouns.
It's always a Redhat employee that starts the drama
You may want to try a bit of introspection about the part of you that decided the "drama" had started when a person was faced with consequences of their and their community's despicable behaviour towards someone from a marginalised group, as opposed to when that gang of bigots decided they wanted to dogpile that person, litter their Discord with slurs against people who are already discriminated and force them off their community.
@@SvalbardSleeperDistrictoh please. We only care about good code. It’s important to also treat others with respect but people should keep their sexuality or gender and political beliefs to themselves.
@@weiSane "We only care about good code"
Yes, we noticed already.
@@SvalbardSleeperDistrict You sound like a silly crybaby.
You probably ate way too much woke-cookies.
@@SvalbardSleeperDistrict As it should be. why cry over 2 words being typed down.
Everyone should think about the idiots using pronouns (WTF/Cares)
I'm going to do a little trolling and get redhat banned brb
You're doing the lords work kid
Sadly, it never works that way. If it did, Trudeau would have been taken out of office the moment it was found he participated in black face. 😏
Update us sloth
You mean aside from them being sued?
@@allenellsworth5799 - A troll lawsuit is something like a p0rn star bribed into suing a former president to start up a clown court hearing in order to derail said former president's presidential bid.
A real lawsuit is going after Red Hat/IBM and other tech companies and organizations for harassment and discrimination due to not being a minority, being the wrong minority that the company is not pandering to, or being a minority in the wrong political, sexual/gender, or racial alliance as in accordance to what the company is pandering to.
“Not open for discussion”. Absolutely ridiculous attitude.
If they have discussed them, it's probably not open for discussion. Human rights aren't open for discussion. Some things are so obviously wrong, that there is no point in discussing them.
@@DuconiHuman rights? It is not a human right for someone to expect people to entertain their own delusions.
@@JasonEspin I don't know what you mean. I just pointed out, that not everything is open for discussion. I didn't wrote anything about delusions.
@@Duconi The delusion of believing you are one gender when you are not. You are what you are born as. No amount of nip tucking or body dismorphia will change that.
I do not want to see purity tests imposed on those who contribute and use free and open source software. That's where I fear we are heading for the pursuit of not offending anyone, being "problematic" or having the incorrect political opinions of those who have power and control over FOSS.
I agree with the crux of the point made here. The best way to handle it was to just say that they were striving to get better and improve the situation, anything further wouldnt benefit Hyprland. I don't think either side is "in the right" because nuance and context is a bit messy but I kind of feel for Vaxry. I don't take his side or condone any of the problematic behaviors but I believe he is in his early 20s and has found himself in a leadership role and that is very young to be in such a position. I remember being that age.
Does this mean that the „Free“ in FOSS is now silent?
Is gonna be replaced with "queer" now. Like it or not
@@gearfriedtheswmas its fghijklmn OSS now. just F was not cutting it
@@gearfriedtheswmas QueerOpenSourceSoftware is the future.
No. hyprland maintainers and users can do and talk what they want. That's their right. Others have the right to tell them to take the L and not have to work with them.
Free means freedom. Like freedom to not want to work with people with disagreements on basic human rights.
Sounds like a bunch of people getting butt hurt over nothing
That’s trans people for you
Careful "Butt hurt" has a different meaning for them
@@gearfriedtheswmasXDDD NICE
@@gearfriedtheswmas Lmao
@@gearfriedtheswmas -1000 social credit
Adults acting like kids. So just the normal state of things.
I support Hyprland now even more now.
Why? I'm supporting it because its what works best for me system.
@@tristen_grant Because when you force people to pick an ideological side, they do. If picking sides is what they want, picking sides is what they will get.
@@J.erem.y the ideological line being "we reserve the right to be mouth-breathing hillbillies".
@@JS-kr7zy Who the hell cares how many teeth you have or cousins you marry if you write good code?
They're not exactly trying to save the world here.
@@JS-kr7zy Yea that's also called "the majority". Now do the moniker for the opposite ideology. There are 3 types of people, the first type who vocally and adamantly are anti woke, the second type that are anti woke but stay polite and just roll their eyes, and the woke. If push comes to shove the crazy woke ideology is outnumbered 2:1 at a minimum. "woke" is not a natural, or sustainable state.
do you have to be polite for redhat to lock your code behind a paywall now?
Linus said it best when someone asked him about him being mean to people "You can just choose to not get offended or you can just choose not to work with me. There is a lot of people that I don't like but they contribute good code and I put up with it" look up "Linus Torvalds on his insults: respect should be earned."
So what’s next Reddit will ban unixporn hyprland uploads?
What I find funny is people on the right will warn about using Reddit for how insanely far left it is, and people on the left will warn about how horribly far right it is, and yet neither one ever decides to quit going there and just let it die. 😏
@@JohnCrawford1979 it is definitely far left tho, try saying anything good about religion or pretty much anything the left doesn't like and see what happens
@@felipefmavelarNah they will upvote pretty much that's anti any system because they're populusim-rot
It's whatever the overlords decides the bots to push.
@@daorkykid No stop being so conspiratorial lmao it's so cringe
Only if he just used an Ai generated response. Ai is a GREAT PR agent btw! Two kids fighting each other because they are both butthurt over each over. I am sad to see him get banned over Nothing. He hasn't done any criminal acts, sabotaged the project and got banned for acting like a child. I love hyper land and I am sad to see him go, people really got to become more mature. We can't progress if we all fight like little kids and I mean that for both of them.
Just got into hyprland. Eager to build more with it now.
Keep politics out of code. And treat others with respect. It’s not hard.
Butthurt don't know the word Respect
@@deadpianist7494 or by looking at the state of code and or video games they don't know the word code either. I guess that's what happens when and integer identifies as a string or a bool.
@@deadpianist7494Agreed. Imagine being so butthurt over someone's username that you feel the need to change it.
I can't believe people are still using discord I stopped when they forced me to log on a give personal details to access discord
I miss the days of the good old forums that got properly moderated etc.. I dislike discord enough to not even go near it, in the last couple of years. What you only have discord, OK I guess we'll never be able to communicate 😅
What good old days were those? There's never been a forum without trolls and stupid drama. In some of the old group forums and BBs, the moderators were the biggest trolls causing drama.
Moderation has never been a problem. People's attitude has become one, e.g. the ones like from lyude, drew and other creatures.
All of those forums would suffer the same problem, with this trans shit.
for me it is the complete opposite. i like the casual conversational feeling among friends that discord gives me. forums always look like so much more pressure.
@@anonymouscommentator - I personally hadn't any issues with Discord, either. But, then again, I don't get mixed in the politics, or otherwise try looking for trouble, or reasons to be offended.
Well. Going to hyperland now
They're jealous that as a DE/compositor hyprland is years ahead of everything they did .
was waiting for Chris' view on this.. finally happened 😂
Demands and ultimatums never sit well with anyone. How did they think this was going to be any different...?
to be honest, wrong stuff on both sides. Immaturity on one, toxic enforcement without explaining why the change is needed on the other.
Saying "our rules are rules," does not explain unprofessional behavior as a maintainer.
chris knows what's up 🤣🤣 sway is jealous and wants to take down hyprland, on a more serious note, i guess they shouldn"t call it free desktop anymore. it's censored desktop.
Woke Desktop
@@wassim-akkaricall it rainbow desktop
this might just be the best video covering the situation
Keep politics and activism out of Linux. It’s killing all other industries.
Exactly, if your code is good, it's good.
Yea I agree. The only issue is that is is already infested, and not just open source software. You cant really even find open source software anymore that doesnt include some kind of code of conduct that relates to things that have nothing to do with software, in the source code..
Free Libre and Open Source always was and still is activism and politics.
Banning toxic people isn't "putting politics and activism into Linux"
@@DragoonScullMental illness is not activism - it's mental illness.
I am watching this on Hyprland. I feel really sad about what is going on.
I'm more concerned that he got banned from contributing to Wlroots than the microaggressions that someone was doing on Discord. Seriously, someone at Red Hat is on a Witch Hunt in Linux Community, this should not be allowed.
A trojan horse.
Which is why it's mind boggling, knowing the toxicity transgender people bring with them, that someone would give someone like that the kind of power they're clearly abusing.
Ok so who/cares
Me
Seems like vaxry already made a post long ago even before adding the CoC admiting the mistake. I don't know the exact contents or if he appolized or not but it seems he did admit the mistakes
His response in tech over tea was trash but maybe he apologised properly later, I personally am not curious enough to dig into this shitshow. Not adding a code of conduct and vehemently opposing it, seems a little iffy when there are tons of people involved. He finally gave in and added one but the sentiment of people over the initial proposal was utterly disappointing.
@@phanirithvij He is the one running his show, so he can do whatever. People are free not to participate.
Tbh everything about this drama is so cringe. Both sides are pretending to not play an agenda (when they coearly are) and both sides are acting like victimized babies. Its so cringe
WoW. Mental illness is getting out of hand.
Good grief - lets combat bullying with bullying to a higher degree.
Reddit users point to apologies being made within six months of the initial incident. This has no place 'hamstringing' GNU-Linux.
hyprland, you got my attention.
This will backfire hard.
Mad respect to Hyperland dev. Agree or not his code is good, I dont care whats his opinion about other.
I still believe that the snowflakes that banned ESR need to be removed from the community.
It's going to take people a while to realize it's not worth it to try and convince toxic woke people about the basic realities of life the refuse to see. Meanwhile, lots of bridges are going to be burned, and for what? A war over words?
Good to know Hyprland's dev's power level is over 9000
Software should be about software, not about your orientation, gender, nor your politics and certainly not about hating groups of people or minorities. This world went to shit somehow.
yeahh except that software is run by, uh, people
Linux certainly it's all about politics and freedom of choice, which coudln't be done without a community
So it's just about us all just chill a little, share what we know and made and respecting each other, otherwise we get cases like these
@@alionicle I don't know if you have noticed but there has been a whole lot of removing choice when it comes to everything Linux lately. Red hat is a terrible company and has been for a long time, doing things that have zero to do with anything political. Same can be said for google and Microsoft, who are among the largest contributors to Linux. Linux has been captured long ago by their competitors. Don't get me wrong, I use Linux almost completely exclusively, but I'm not blind to it being captured and controlled.
@@J.erem.y As long as we get free/open software and we get liberty to choose our systems, linux shall preserve
I mean, there's Artix, Gentoo, Rocky
Heck, even going beyond, LFS
If something doesn't work or is inadequate then let's just move on, just as going from bash to zsh, X11 to wayland and so on
These people ask for censorship in the name of being compassionate , its a oxymoron
That's how all authoritarian groups/ideologies act.
It's the Paradox of Tolerance. You have to be intolerant towards intolerance. Otherwise, the tolerant are pushed out and intolerance takes over.
Also, this is not censorship. They can still do their thing as everything is open source after all. Some just decided, that they don't want to work/interact with them.
@@DragoonScull If you truly believe in freedom of expression, you have to allow those forms of expression that offend you. After all, there is no right to not be offended.
@@davidfrischknecht8261And they still have that freedom. Their Discord was not censored. They still can write anything they want there. But don't confuse freedom of speech with freedom of consequences.
So basically, Drew is pissed because no one cares about Sway anymore.
best take so far on this matter by anyone
Childish drama. Nothing important to care about. People like to make drama of everything. 😂😂😂 America is fck up with this whole prounce thing.
ngl its always baffling me how its a issue. ngl it might actually be a real issue over there but its so absurd to me personally that i cannot just relate to it like at all or take it seriously just like the apple green bubble blue bubble thing shit is just too disconnected. like how the fuk do they do that. reminds me of that time netfilx made cleopatra black skinned and were like yeah this is representation and inclusivity. no that called changing historical facts. lmao
Yeah, I'm a guy but often mistakenly identified as "Ma'am" if I talk to someone over the phone. Can't believe Americans are crying over this.
@@topaz-rn nice falsetto
It's really ridiculous how some people make fun of the pronounce of others and bullying them. It's just consequent for Freedesktop to throw Hyprland out as they where not willing to stop harassing other people.
@@siliconhawk When society becomes too good people start looking for little insignificant things to get upset about
I thought free stood for freedom in linux communities. And I thought that would extend to freedom of speech too.
Free speech does not mean "free of consequences".
Act like an ignorant d-bag, be treated like an ignorant d-bag, if you can't handle being called out for being an a-hole, don't be an a-hole, and all that, you know, the common sense way of thinking, it's also the other people free speech to call you out, it's not free speech for one side, just like it's everyone's right to not want to associate with someone, do i think they went a lil overboard? yes, do I think Vax was an a-hole? also yes.
Free as in free speech
if people just separated real life from the internet. thing would be so much easier politics, personal opinions, ideology etc etc. keep real life stuff to real life and just be some random guy on the internet.
Ah, I'm not alone! I've never associated sex, race or anything personal with code. I've admired beautiful code without a thought of who is behind it, and I've seen awful code without a thought of who is behind it. Thank you for speaking up. Freedesktop's "political branch" is reducing software quality for all of us.
Hahahahah, Thanks for the Laughs!!! More important stuff to worry about!! People with their Fragile Sensibilities, Life is Tough Get a Helmet!!
their parents should have used a helmet
Life can be tough - but we and it can always evolve towards the better.
I don't agree with proliferation of pronouns being in profiles, but changing someone's profile as a mod is tacky and unprofessional.
wild times
Just an ordinary user here. I have asked for help a couple of times and got help! That was the main thing. i am a bit older and was treated like an idiot. I had to take that if i wanted help I guess.
At first it made me laugh, but I stopped as I saw how many implications it could have on Linux... and not just because of this specific event, no one is irreplaceable, Vaxry, Lyude, and even Red Hat, Xorg and Freedesktop could vanish Linux would keep going just fine, it would lose some time and energy but that's about it. Though, if this kind of BS keeps going on and germinates in other projects and distros it could make Linux lose a lot. And when I say BS I talk about both sides of this cringiness.
The only political agenda Linux has is in the positive consequences of the open source all around the world, and it's a greater one than being woke or anti-woke through social networks.
I'm old and don't give two 💩s about someone's pronouns or political affiliations. If they want to ban me, so be it. If they want to cancel me, awesome. I don't try to offend anyone, but it happens from time to time. As I'm sure the post I'm writing here will offend someone. Just my two cents.
hyprland: I thought this was a free software
(who/cares) couldn't agree more. Never apologize
based
i dont like the idea of hyprland but i will try it just because of this
hyprland maintainers and users can do and say what they want. That's their right. Others have the right to tell them to take the L and not have to work with them. That's not trolling. Freedom of speech doesn't shield you from the consequences.
Can't ban someone from a platform if the incident never happened on their platform to begin with. seen UA-cam do that to users on Rumble, and those users are currently winning in lawsuits because of it.
Freedesktop is abusing their jurisdiction. That is not "consequences from your actions"
From your phrasing, you wouldn't feel the same with the shoe on the other foot. It's an attempt to justify extreme over reactions. In a sane world when someone said something another didn't like, they simply wouldn't talk to that person anymore. They would not use their anger as an excuse to try and ruin someone's life, projects or livelihood. Big difference. The first is rational, the second is blatantly authoritarian and petty.
What's funny is statements like yours have been used through history to defend censorship and punishment of dissent. You may want to rethink it.
Troons now acting like small hats...
nah that’s some bs. OVER A 2 YEAR comment on discord????? cmon man. this person better not be on twitter then
ok I get liking hyprland and being bummed, and I like free speech, but Im also a big fan of being able to respond to things however you personally see fit, even if that means some fists being swung (as long as ppl are similar sized and no sucker punches). I find it incredibly annoying that a lot of the more offensive member of the "free speech" crowd wanna bully other ppl but then flip out if someone does something back. If your using slurs and being hateful ppl are going to want to even the score and they cant do that with words unless they also respond with some form of bigotry, so when you act like these guys did, yea there are going to be a lot of ppl who get even with something other than words, like banning your program.
the other thing I dont get is why ppl outside the situation try to split the middle on this stuff. If you dont make excuses for ppl being hateful theyll be a lot less likely to do it in the first place, and when thy get called out theyll be a lot less likely to try to weather the storm without apologizing.
I am going to support Hyprland even more now. That who/cares is fucking gold.
Imagine being of such weak internal fortitude that you are triggered and completely thrown off by someone calling you the wrong pronouns. So many crybabies out there.
imagine being triggered by pronouns, no one talked about the transgender actions btw, someone complained, it was Drew apparently, no source states it was the transgender individual, in fact I'd put my money on some random in the discord complained to Drew who saw an opportunity to attack Vax, I doubt it was the transgender individual since most every transgender person I know, has delt with dicks so much they literally do not freaking care anymore, it's just part of life, like the sun rising, death and taxes.
this Drew DeVault character gives me the creeps. I can imagine digging in my heals if DeVault started telling me what's wrong with me
Reading through his post, all I got from it was commentary on the interactions between Vaxry and Lyude with a final (very appropriate) calling out of Vaxry's behavior. Nowhere did he tell Vaxry what was wrong with him. He gave a typical call-out of shitty behavior. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's "creepy" or whatever.
@@francesay8478 so you get up decide what I find creepy? Interesting
not really related to this particular case but i was wondering.. is there any way to "un f-ck " someones life if they apologized after all that? like is there some sort of a redemption mechanism in place? What if a person has a change of heart all of a sudden and offer a sincere public apology but theyd be unable to make money ? or does it only go one way spreading negativity further and blowing things up even from tete-a-tete conversations?
Well yes, its called actually apologizing and growing over time. Instead in the wake of it 2 years ago vaxry alluded that his admins should have banned the trans person immediately instead of taunting them. Since then he has used the T slur and made a lot of jabs towards them under the veil of jokes. I'm not here to debate what is or isnt a joke but just saying slurs and making fun of a group with the only punchline being "aren't oppressed minorities funny to prod and get a reaction from" will get you backlash.
Again if he issued a formal apology and actually improved this would all be old dirt, the fact of reality is improvements have only marginally been made and not nearly as much as you would hope has been changed in 2 years time.
You can't
That functionality is not programmed into the NPCs
I don't get it all, but I love hyprland so much. I hope the people sort out their differences and we can all enjoy the goodness.
I don't feel safe watching this video.
As long as those things didn't happen in Freedesktop's community then they should care. If he behaved reasonably when he interacted with them in their space (eg bugtrackers repo etc), then they should care what happens in his own space. Unless it was especially egregious and out of line (like whole threads spewing racist stuff).
One day humanity will grow up and stop behaving like entitled children.Words are nothing that can hurt you unless you allow them to. Today people have such a over inflated ego about themselves, that is why social media is such a negative vibe and not worth the effort .
I hope, really hope, but looking at the way the world is heading up now, I really doubt. As to me, when hearing this sentence: 'This point is not opened for discussion' sounds like 'my right is better than your right...' How people want to resolve the issue is they don't want to talk? Both sides have acted like a bunch of kids, 'it cannot be questioned' 😉 Just hope that people will grow up one day ✌
Should we be allowed to use the N and the R words now?
And the link is....?
oops: christitus.com/freedesktop-bans-hyprland/
The link is easily found. Google is an amazing tool. If you've watched any of Chris' videos you'd also know about his site.
@@tristen_grant I hope the next time you ask someone a question you remember this
Everyone involved should be banned for using discord
Not everyone involved used Discord.
I don't think there's inherently anything wrong with discord. It's a really good organised platform. It's only a matter of who you associate with.
discord has nothing to do with this sensitivity xd
discord literally stores and scans all your data and sends it to the government
@@Blox117 So what "data" are you giving them ? do you link your gmail account to your discord and thats what you're so worried about?
I get that people want to take a firm stance on not condoning toxicity, fair enough, gotta have your principles and stand by them, but its frustrating seeing some people throw the baby out with the bathwater. It does kinda look like a bit of a crusade. There's positives to these discords too, I like being able to ask a sentient stranger about how to use something or if something is possible in project X, its like an actually good version of LLMs, why can't we all team up against so called "AI" huh?
We should all listen to Linus Torvalds. He was right all along. Now we'll never see the year of the Linux desktop. Also, everyone should trash Discord
telling the truth from biology class is called bulling by snowflakes...lol
Everything is called bullying by people that are empowered for being the "victim". Which is precisely why we get a new victim class every day, because parts of society reward any and all claim of victimhood. This is precisely the reason they also say that words, and silence are both "violence". There is no end to the madness if its allowed to propagate.
yeahh.. except that it's more complex than that
Sex is only defined by g_nit4ls? How about hormones? or chromosomes? and what about those MRI scanning the brain of these people?
There's still thing that we don't understand, and frankly it's hard to absolutley aprove or deny someone's identity, i just find myself in the middle trying to understand the problem
But, at the end of the day, i'm not someone who can tell anynoe how to feel about themselves, and if they feel fine about it while not doing any harm then who cares
@@alionicle Hormones, chromosomes and science are sexist, racist and homophobic, obviously. At least that's what I'm told.
@@alionicle you can say genitals. If you want to use the scientific name, its gonads
@@alionicle
my brother. are you gay?
My whole classroom uses discord and its all Drama, Entertainment for me :)
Yeah so clearly Hyprland now is the based wayland compositor.
talk about freedesktop, i do found that i think there is "exploit" using the "Dbus" in linux. i dont know if that has anything to do with hyprland or flatpak, but there is should be a way to secure the dbus from non local device control.
I'm with the who cares guy on this one. Cause guess what... NO ONE ACTUALLY DOES CARE. We're literally all just trying to live our lives. I don't have time to guess or stop myself talking because my brain is rendering different information that what YOUR beliefs just happen to be at that moment. Everyone always gets so damn butt hurt for LITERALLY EVERYTHING. Just stfu and let other people live as long as they aren't effecting your life.
So those "weirdos" get mad and decide to lash out on one of the main wlroots developers? how is that going to help wayland support in DE get better in the future?
Merit should always triumph over opinion. Seems like there's no malice in the comments, just some edgy jokes. Huge over reaction from subpar admin who doesn't maintain anything in reality but rather there just to be moral police. Bunch of children
Hey, banning him is an edgy joke too.
I guess he just can't hadle it.
Snowflake.
@@zzaretube, tell that to the people who banned him. I believe they were dead serious and on the highest horse they've ever been.
Hyprland W
Just because the maintainer of sway commented on what's going on with Vaxry doesn't mean he trying to win some popularity contest. The key details are in the beginning of the post where DeVault explicitly states he tried to reach out to Vaxry multiple times. Now Vaxry is having a meltdown on his blog over everything. Quite frankly, his blog posts are anything but mature, and that goes for more than just this "drama." He tried to clap back (which never ends well) in response to Lyude and that's what ultimately resulted in his ban.
I would also like to point out that bans for violation of codes of conduct or terms of service outside of the platform 100% happen all the time. Twitch, for example, has a policy in place for things like that; if your behavior on Twitter is in violation of Twitch's guidelines, they will ban you from their platform for however long. Twitter used to do the same thing but then Elon fired the moderation team so yeah...but I digress.
with all due respect, can we go back to 2000 era? where you can bully and thats it. nothing personal. why people getting soft everyday?
It's hard to survive in 2024, Competition has increased and this is what happens when opposite parties interact on discord
w o k e n e s s
Open source is solving the same easy problems a thousand times. There are too many bored people, so it's easy to slip in a CoC to spice things up.
So it's not that Discord sucks, it's that it was never meant or built from the ground up to house large projects or communities. It was always meant for small groups to interact about specific topics like certain games or just a place for your group of friends to hang out. But as human nature did what it always does, people started using it to create their own walled garden communities where they can hoist control over other members. That's why this drama happens.
I will say though, there is zero reason for people to get upset about a change and demand that another community change, especially when we are talking about something as small as a group of developers for cool software that very few people (relatively speaking) use. This person, if they were so upset at a silly pronoun change from their server roles, they should have just left a passive acknowledgement of the change in the server as a message, and leave the Discord and project. The fact that another trans person at Red Hat found out, meant there was likely some networking and coercion going on here, which just makes the people hurt, look bad.
I don't have an issue with trans people, but... if I could give any advice to those people, it would simply be this... Don't make a huge deal out of super small things like labels, and stuff that is not actively harming you when you could simply walk away and make your own thing, your own community. Raging about something like this, is only going to make all the people that do have problems with trans people, even more justified in why they think what they do about your community. If someone pokes fun at a label associated with you, simply brush it off as if someone is telling you something you've heard a million times. If you truly believe you are what you are, then why would someone making a very cheap jab, affect you? It takes zero effort to make a trans joke, but it's the biggest thing in the world to some of you? It shouldn't be, it's just a cheap jab. Personally, I see this happen time and time again, and it starts to make me think that a lot of trans people are indecisive and unconfident with how they think they are as a person, that they have to blow things out of proportion to, at this point, seemingly make it believable for themselves, let alone anyone else. Just ignore the trolls, and be yourself, it's that simple.
All things considered, this is just a stupid, dramatic, lose-lose ordeal.
they claim to enjoy free software, implying they enjoy freedom, yet they don't seem to like free speech all that much. curious.
hyprland maintainers and users can do and talk what they want. That's their right. Others have the right to tell them to take the L and not have to work with them.
You're not entitled to someone else's labour and time, or their platform. You speak freely; as freely as others can choose to not associate with you. Simple as.
@@Nina-cd2eh, it really is not as simple as that if Freedesktop makes decisions based on something totally tangential to their mission and the majority of their member base. We need to fork Freedesktop.
@@seriouscat2231 _"totally tangential"_ You've never worked with or managed people in your life. You are so incapable of having this conversation if that's what you think. You are just an ideologue. You haven't, nor will contribute anything compared to the people you complain about.
Go ahead, fork it. I'm sure people will totally follow you just because you think "pronoun people are trouble". That's totally what normal people do...
@@seriouscat2231 Freedom can not be kept if you allow people to violate the freedom of others. It's the tolerance paradox. You can tolerate everything except intolerance. If you have a discriminating community, like the Hyprland community clearly is/was, Freedesktop can not tolerate that. It would pull their whole platform down. Part of the freedom is, that everyone is welcome as they are. The limit is, that they have to accept others as they are as well. Because if you don't apply that limit people can start spreading hate about each other and the community breaks apart. So if a trans person wants to work on one of the Freedesktop projects, they should have the right to do so. The main developer and the community doesn't have to like trans people, they don't have to be happy about their wish to use they pronounce, but they must not make fun of them or bully that person in any way. You can replace trans by any other kind of people, it stays the same, like for PoC, Jews, Muslims, Christians, fat people, thin people, feminin people, queer people, Gingers, people with disabilities, people with strange names, people that say UwU, unathletic people, etc.
with vaxry acting the same way in the issues sections of his projects i'm not surprised that freedesktop/rh aren't into him right now. he's a good dev but terrible when it comes to people, i remember reading some of his replies to technical problems calling people stupid or whatever else instead of ignoring or helping. hopefully he'll make an effort to be less toxic now that he has a significant push, and i SO much hope that he fixes all those broken dropdown menus lol
I wasn't going to use Hyprland but now I think I will.
You can't get trolled Chris when the sender email is from official redhat servers.. 😔
Companies "troll" all the time.
@@tristen_grant sure, but that whole email can't be considered as troll.. But we know all this as Chris mentioned is like discussions in the kindergarten.. 😔
@@LefterisEl Yes it can & yes it is.
freedesktop acting like some fascists lol how ironic
An organization banning someone from using their services is not fascism, holy.
No matter what, the organization holds the power over the service not the community. Therefore it is within their right to freely ban someone. You may not like it, but it is well within their rights to.
@@xyhilSo they can ban black people?
@@xyhil You don't have the right to ban someone over difference of political opinions/religion etc. Given multiple govts dislike of the freedoms Linux as a whole provides freedesktop may have poked the bear enough for some govt intervention at thats not good for Linux as a whole
@@xyhil Wait, didn't we just get told not too long ago those bakers who didn't want to bake the cake were fascists? You people need to make up your mind what discrimination is because you cant have it both ways.
@@J.erem.ySO TRUE KING
My personal summary, as a suckless DWM user: Right wingers write better window managers :-)
you mean normal people
@@Blox117 confirmed
And better display servers. ;)
@@supra107 Hehe, YOU said that ;-)
@@armynyus9123 It's true though. X11 just works. Wayland doesn't. ;)
"Ada" and his CoC are the worst things to have happened to the free software and open source communities. It was never about respect, it's about control.
@-_-_-_-_... Because it's internet jannies we're talking about
That and RedHat having to follow IBM's DEI malarkey passed down from BlackRock, Vangaurd and the WEF
This gives computer people a bad name no straights allowed on Linux
Vaxry responded exactly how I would have, we need to rout these Jacobin cancelers out and let them know where they can go.
The mod was too honest.
What a bunch of babies.... good lord.
Why would you need to write your pronouns down? Is it common to forget them?
Have written it down, now I can't find that paper no more.
Duhh, to make sure other people know what you require them to call you. Compelled speech is an amazing thing.
Sometimes it can be difficult to determine the pronouns from a name, let alone from only nicknames and blurry low res pictures. And for some it is important to be correctly referred to.
@@DragoonScullThe only person that you should share it with is your psychiatrist. The rest of the world don't care for the voices in your head.
@@Mister_NO.And still you have "Mister" in your name, which sounds to me, that you prefer not to be called by a female pronoun.
Being a free speech absolutist, I am agast at the prospect of canceling people for their speech and using that power in such a way to deny all of us the merit-based excellence of the few. I do agree with the idea of getting rid of Discord server, but the damage is done and will likely continue.
You are not a free speech absolutist. You are just upset that a project (a group of people) expresses a different opinion that you don't like.
Nobody was canceled. Vaxry just experienced the consequence of expressing the way he did.
Many people dislike his toxic behaviour and therefore distance themselves from him. It's that simple.
@@interru_io These people just don't get it. Their idea of "free speech", much less the absolutist one, is "I'm entitled to your platform, I can say whatever and I don't like consequences".
The reality is, they have no principles. Every time you let them go down their dialogue tree, it becomes obvious. It always boils down to "I want to say I hate minorities, and be applauded for it". There's no free speech principle behind their beliefs.
@@interru_io Is it really a project opinion? Or just Lyude abusing authority? I'd like an official Freedesktop statement publicizing that as a project they have decided to investigate and police the personal behavior of any contributors, even in discussions in no way related to freedesktop. And that they will ban such individuals from contributing if they find them disagreeable and i want to see how this works out for them.
I'm not willing to submit to Freedesktop's thought police, sorry, but even as a liberal i find that fascistic and evil at it's core, its not a mental process that is born out of liberalism but rather out of authoritarianism, that you will punish people for general behavior in their personal lives that does not adhere to the social uniforms you expect everyone must wear.
It's one thing to have the opinion who cares, but it's another to vandalize someone's user profile. That's out of bounds.
Abusing your mod powers when you find it funny is the only reason to be a discord mod.
Yea I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one, but not because I think its ok to change someone's profile. Discord gives server mods the complete discretion to do that, therefore its meant to be done. Doesn't make it right, just makes it the design. If someone has control over "your profile", its not yours.
Gonzalez Lisa Williams Mary Martin Kenneth
It absolitely saddens me how bad of a rep discord as a platform has now.
made by furries i thought? inevitable