Everyone on an even playing field, maps built to perfection, the sounds, the fighting, the vehicle control, the interesting yet simple original ideas…this game was amazing. Wish they’d remaster it and release it again. So perfect and so many night spent with friends at a sleepover playing this game taking turns after 3 deaths each it was so peak.
With the popularity of WW2 games steadily rising again, and BF5 being... mixed but ultimately accepted by the community. I think what DICE needs to do is give us Battlefield 1944. Since obviously this game would have iconic maps featured, give it different "playlists" 1942 - only original maps, 32vs32, remaster everything(and I mean everything, I wanna see player-controlled aircraft carriers dammit, I wanna stand on a tank's turret while it drives me into battle) 1943 - limited selection of the same maps but only in the pacific theatre, 12vs12, limited class selection, mirrored classes 1944 - take the best elements of both games, put them in 64vs64 game modes with massive battles, a modern class system, implement operations from BF1, maybe throw in a Rush mode since both 1942 and 1943 missed out on Rush. Use the original maps as a basis but expand the borders, add more detail and more character - so we can blow it all up with formations of B-17s.
@@trainknut The playlist idea is quite interesting. Then you can cater to both fans of the original who enjoyed the smaller maps and 12v12, as well as players who enjoy larger scale battles with 64v64. I'm in the 12v12 camp. One aspect that I didn't enjoy in BFV was the size of the maps. I would often end up having to spend a lot of time just running from A to B to get to the action. The smaller maps of BF1943 meant I could get quicker to the action, which suited the simple "pick-up-and-play" nature of the game. I also felt the smaller 12v12 made for more intimate matches where one would often end up with fun rivalries against players on the enemy team. Being 12v12 also meant one player could make more of a difference.
@@LeotseilGaming I'm a veteran of both 1942 and 1943, I want to see both experiences remastered, because like you said, the experience is just so much different in 12v12 on small maps. But I also just want to see DICE make the final sequel to the original game we were all expecting after Bad Company 2 and BF3. It's been 23 years, how has Battlefield NEVER done the player controlled battleships and aircraft carriers since 2002?? Much as I want to experience the OG battlefield again, I also want to see them do something NEW with the WW2 setting. And no, not like BF5... god damn that game pissed me off.
Reminds me of the SMGs in Wolfenstein Enemy Territory, where they had to change the sounds of the guns because the players in testing thought the Thompson was more powerful than the MP-40 despite them having the exact same stats and complained. Turns out the Thompson just sounded more powerful.
Hehe, I didn't know that one. Just goes to show the power of good audio. Audio is another aspect that BF1943 did extremely well. Not only the sound effects themselves (which were very good), but also the sound engine. The way it handled dynamics just made the guns and explosions feel so powerful.
I mean they didn't just "believe" Thompson was stronger, most of the sound bias came from the caliber the Tommy gun fired, .45 ACP, whereas the MP-40 fired 9mm.
@@josephmontanaro2350 I don't remember for sure if they did that or the other way around, but that's the memory I have. Neither of us have any idea of the audio solution they had or if turning the bass up on the mp40 made it sound like shit or something.
Funnily enough the corsair had one advantage over the zero, but it was extremely hard to master it. The corsair had better stability when executing a turn while dipping the wing into the water. I'm not sure if you know of this trick as only a few players knew of it but you could turn so much faster if you dipped your wing into the water. As shown here at 4:20: ua-cam.com/video/gA-C_Hh83pA/v-deo.html While both planes could turn at the same speed if you mastered this skill, I found that the corsair was far easier to control when doing the wing dip turn.
I learned about it eventually, but I never got any good at it. That is very interesting that the Corsair was easier to control with that trick. Thanks for the link!
It was indeed possible to out turn a Zero while wing dipping with the Corsair due to as you say, better stability(the Zero`s agility suffered from being slighty more twitchy while dipping) so a more "planted/heavier" Corsair could be easier to control(I still prefered the Zero`s nimbleness). An equally well executed wing dipping Zero pilot vs a Corsair pilot could do this for "ages" and "never" catch each other😂 I remember a stubborn EGCxxx Zero pilot and a stubborn myself going on and on for what felt like an eternity at Iwo Jima, but eventually the Corsair caught the Zero😅..
@@battlefieldplays2754 He was good but I dont think I would single out anyone in particular in regards to having a nemesis. The top guys could all be listed in this category at times, and it depended on the flow and momentum of a specific game whether or not, such a nemesis would and could be singled out in my view. Ah the good times this game gave us, sometimes bad, some hate, but all worth it.😂
As someone who has never played this game, I didn't expect to finish the video to the end... But, I did! This was a very enjoyable and well put together video! Although the other content on this channel doesn't interest me as much, I'd be glad to see more of these kinds of videos. Thank you!
Thanks, man, appreciate it! It's nice to hear that the video can be interesting for someone who didn't play the game, because when I was making the video I knew that the topic most likely would be very niche: Very interesting for players who played the game a lot, but perhaps not so much for others. I want to make more videos like this from time to time, although most of my content will admittedly be similar to what you already see on the channel. I have, however, put playlists on the front of my channel to make it easier to find these kind of "special" videos among the rest of my content when I do make them.
@@LeotseilGaming Even though I haven't played BF1943, I do enjoy the BF games and have a passing interest in planes (I really like the Zero), so those might be the reasons why I got recommended something as niche as this. Anyway, I will be looking out for videos of interest to me on this channel and I can only hope you're having a good time making these videos, no matter if they're not for everyone. Also going through that playlist, I can't believe you've both planned ahead, recorded and intend to make 1000 episodes of BF1943! That is some insane dedication. I hope there is a way you (and everyone else) can get to enjoy the game online again, either through emulation or some other way.
@the_zens It was a fun project to try to reach 1000 episodes before the servers shut down. Every episode is actually already made, uploaded and has a schedule set for when it will automatically go live. So I could technically just lean back and let the channel run itself until the last episode goes live on November 23rd, 2027, hehe.
truly a monument to how solid design and care is all gamers want. a game litteraly a xbox arcade testbed for the at the time brand new frostbite engine and its destruction. truly remarkable
Although I don't have data to back this up, I have a feeling most players would play in first person when they enter into a dogfight (although I do know of a few that would play in third), which would have made them equal as far as the guns are concerned (they would still be more likely to loose because of the differences in maneuverability, though). It would have been very interesting to find a way to do a survey of the player base to ask how many would play in third and first person while in dogfights and compare the stats of players that preferred third and first person.
@@LeotseilGaming when the air superiority mode dropped its all I played and I became a mini god at it and yes most games the zeros would mop the decks with the corsairs and I know for a fact I always flew around in 3rd person but absolutely always switched to first person every time. the zero would always turn in on you if tried turn fighting it and it could always just lead it’s shots into you and absolutely wreck you
@@andrewholm6341 I think it's a pity that so few players played air superiority in the later years, because it could be pretty fun. When I got back into this game in 2023, I would often go into air superiority to see if anyone was playing. However, most of the time I was either alone, or there were maybe one more player there, and then it was often a player not playing the game but just jumping in place to try to get the 100 matches played achievement.
There is no doubt that the Zero performed way better than the Corsair. For me the M1 Garand also performed better than the Type 4 when aiming down the sights. The iron sights were just better on the M1, so I would always try to pick up the M1 when playing as the japanese. Great video.
If I ever get back into PC gaming, trying out 1942 online would be on my TODO-list. I used to play it back in the day, but then only offline against bots.
@@LeotseilGaming Graphically, 1942 is on par with 1943, and it's still hella fun even after almost 25 years! What's cool is that because these games are so old you can max out all the graphical settings even on old laptops or PCs and still get massive framerates.
I never played 1943 because I was veeery late to the PS3/360 era and also still happy with 1942 on PC, but after seeing this, I really wish I'd given it a try.
Legit one of the best UA-cam game documentaries I have ever seen: the progression from gameplay to data mining, the suspense, and to top it all off over a game I adored as a kid. I give this the coveted Kyle ABSOLUTE CINEMA award 🥇 🎉❤
@@SuperVette-in6bt There was a used on reddit/discord that did an amazing job archiving the stats of players in the game before the shutdown. I have some links in the description to websites that he made, one where you can check stats of individual players and one where you can download the whole database (as well as one with a description of the data available for each player).
Man I miss this game... Was so simple, turn your brain off, jump in, pick a class, shoot people and blow stuff up, have fun. Glad to know I wasn't going insane thinking that I did way better in a Zero than in a Corsair somehow, thank you for your video!
@@robertharris6092 They actually had a PC version in the works, but it got cancelled in order to focus all development on BF3. I don't know if it was finished or not, but at least they wouldn't need to port it from scratch.
As somebody who didn't get a chance to play BF1943 (never had a PS3 or 360), this video was very interesting. The guns in 3rd vs.1st person seem like a simple oversight (I know of something similar in BF1, where the origin point of the Flanker Tank's shells will change depending on what perspective the driver is using). The maneuverability, on the other hand, makes me wonder if the planes do have the same stats in the code, but the way those stats interact with the physics engine gives an advantage to the Zero somehow.
That is a very intriguing hypothesis. While I find it odd that the different plane models would interact that differently with the physics engine with the same values in the code, it would explain why the devs would think they are equal if they didn't anticipate how the different planes would interact differently with the physics engine. Now I'm even more curious to the reason why the planes handled differently, hehe.
@@LeotseilGaming My theory is actually along the lines of it having something to do with the position of the pilot, and thus what's considered the "center" of the plane. The Corsair's cockpit is a bit further back on the airframe than the Zero's, so maybe that's an angle worth investigating. Also, I forgot to ask in my initial post, but was there any significant difference between the stats of PS3 and X360 pilots?
@@TheD3rp2 Ah, that is an interesting angle that would have been worth investigating. I'm not quite sure how one would go about testing that, though, since we only have the tutorial to play in. This is a good example of where being able to host a private match would have been useful since we could have had players spectating the planes from different angles while they did maneuvers. I haven't checked the differences between PS3 and X360 pilots, but that is worth checking into. I will probably do follow-up videos at some points where I look at more stats from the database (and not only for the planes). One have to be a bit careful when interpreting the results from looking at PS3 and X360 players, though. If one platform had the more skilled players, one would think that they would have higher stats, for instance, higher kills per minute. However, every player on that platform would also have more skilled opponents, which could balance the stats so that they would appear similar to the other platform.
@@LeotseilGaming I'm more interested in the differences between the two versions of the game, such as (to use a purely hypothetical example) the Zero's maneuverability advantage being less pronounced on the PS3. From a look at the combined stats I don't that's the case, but it's always worth checking out.
@TheD3rp2 Now that would have been interesting to check out. The obvious approach would be to just do the same tests in the tutorial on Xbox and PS3, but unfortunately the tutorial is only available to Xbox players for some strange reasons. On PS3 you needed access to the servers to go into the tutorials, which means they can't get in. Maybe there could be a way to investigate some of the differences based on the available stats, but I would have to think a bit on how to best approach such an analysis. Edit: Thinking about it, I think we should except to see a different trend line on PS3 and Xbox if there were differences between the planes on PS3 and Xbox even if there were differences between the skills between the platforms. I think I'll have to make a video about this at some point.
@@LeotseilGaming Well, it’s about correlation of self-regulation activities with subjective sense of vitality, but I’ll also include activities like gaming. Seeing your correlation charts reminded me of my work ahead. I gotta admit that I’m not the biggest fun of statistics, but you reminded me that it can be fun. 😊
@Gusararr Oh, interesting topic! I must admit I have little to no knowledge about the concept of vitality, but I have done a bit of reading into Self-Determination Theory (SDT) and I notice that Ryan and Deci (founders of the SDT theory) have a model of vitality based on SDT that factors in how self-regulation affects vitality, where they argue that some forms of regulation (controlled) can deplete vitality while others (autonomous) will not. Are you by any chance investigating this model in your research or is it not relevant for your research question? Statistics can be very fun, but the careful when interpreting the results of a correlation analysis. There are a lot of pitfalls to fall into.
I played this when it was new but quickly moved on with BFBC2 when it came out. I’m with you that it’s interesting they’re not the same, great work, great video, great charts🤙🏻
Thanks! I used to play both BF1943 and BFBC2 on PS3 back in the day. I used to switch between the two, but BF1943 was always the game I gravitated towards the most. However, I have been wondering of getting into PC gaming to try out Project Rome. Is sucks that we didn't get a PC release of BF1943 because it would have been so sweet to have something like Project Rome for BF1943.
@SixfiveBowman I moved on to BC 2 as well. I probably would have returned, but Birds of Prey multiplayer really captured my attention, and it led me down the PC combat sim path. BF 1943 was my gateway into aerial combat.
Even when i was a young kid i could tell the planes were different. I wonder if the tanks or other vehicles are the same. The 1st and 3rd person difference is shocking tho.
I was so sure it was just in my mind because of the different camera positions, so would do the tests over and over again because I thought I had to be doing something wrong. I couldn't believe my eyes when I noticed the difference between 1st and 3rd. That had to be a simple oversight by the devs that slipped through. I will probably make a follow-up video or two at some points where I look at more stats, including comparing vehicles and weapons.
The Zero's biggest advantage against the Corsair was it's ability to turn faster than the Corsair. If both players were turning the same direction, the Zero would eventuality catch up with and get behind the Corsair. This is not up for debate and is 100% accurate. I also felt the Zero was easier to aim, although I suspect the Corsair had a sweet spot where its guns would be more effective than the Zero.
Before making this video, I was so sure that it was just an imagined difference because of the different camera positions, like the devs said, but man was I in for a surprise when I started doing systematic testing.
@brandonglosson1628 Personally, I would have preferred if they just made them totally equal. I have a feeling they were supposed to be equal (why else would the dev say they are equal?), but that something happened during development, a mistake that was made or something, which resulted in them not being equal.
Glad this popped into my recommendations. I'm surprised to learn from those stats that I only played 50 matches. I had a bunch of hours; may have been that I left some before completion? I dunno.
Yeah, that is a bit strange. I wouldn't be surprised if the match would get added to stats at the end of the match, so that could be a possible explanation.
Great breakdown. Well done! After this I had to check my stats. shiki_con, my main account, at a total time of 272 hours in game, my Kills per minute are 1.23 for the Zero and .97 for the Corsair. After I got good, I created a second account to capture a snapshot of my current skill level. Da40yearoldgamer, at a total time of 7 hours, my kills per minute are 1.65 in the Zero and 1.09 in the Corsair.
21:20 I believe a good synapses for this part of the video and how you were feeling is the old quote "you may take the dog out of the fight, but you'll never take the fight out of the dog"
Excellent video and thank you for sharing the link to the database. I'm wondering if you saw a big difference in time spent in the zero vs corsair among the more skilled pilots?
Before the final answer my guess is they intended to change the machine gun placements on the plains but from time crunch or whatever they just made it look like it was different in first person but in actual reality it was unchanged and unbalanced but most people don't fight in third person so I guess they figured the first person's which would be enough to fool people
if you have the game files i think there's existing tools for fbrb files (frostbite resource bundles) that can extract the game scripts. you should be able to get the exact values on turning speed and such
So, I (Combined 32 hours flight experience) never knew about the water wing method mentioned by that other commenter, however I _had_ developed a technique that allowed me to somewhat compensate for the Corsair's lack of maneuverability in the air.. *Negative G maneuvers* While I had by no means 'mastered' the technique (I'm sure someone could do it better), I definitely had a feel for it, and it allowed me to pull out an edge over mid-to-upper teir Zero pilots multiple times. I'm not quite sure how exactly the physics model is set up, as planes glide more like pool torpedoes through water than they fly like actual aircraft, however _I believe_ it has something to do with increasing the plane's angle of attack (or is it decreasing because you're upside down? 🤔) I can't say if it makes the Corsair 'turn faster', per'se, however it *does* allow you to theoretically get your guns on target _sooner_ in the turning radius. It also has an effect on speed, allowing you to (if timed correctly) channel *both* the negative G *and* reduced speed effects together, to _very quickly_ alter your nose angle within a given range. _Additionally,_ if you channel the peak momentum by letting completely off the throttle, then hammering it down, you can send your plane into a sort of 'in-air' drift, or side-slip turn. The combat effectiveness of that drift maneuver is questionable short of close range evasion.. but I'm sure it could've been developed further had it been shared. Worth noting, the trick *did* seem less effective/not worth effort in the Zero, either because of the turning differences, _OR_ my running theory. It's the difference in the placement of the physics actors on the models. In the same way jeep tires, and tank treads/hitboxes and barrels all line up with their models correctly, _the same can be said for the Zero and Corsair. So, while the _*_raw stats_*_ may_ just be identical, their placement relative to the model could result in the discrepancy we observe. Hop into the tutorial and see if you can't pull off these negative G maneuvers. The Corsair almost feels 'heavier', like it's throwing its weight around, or like you can more easily deviate its drift angle. Oh and, *Thank you for the video* btw As someone who was primarily a pilot in this game, I really appreciated the lengths you went to here. It was cool charting my KPM improvements across my three profiles over the years, and it lined up just about perfectly with your findings.
Thanks, it's always interesting to hear about tricks and maneuvers from pilots in the game. There was actually another comment that also hypothesized the placement of the pilot being a factor that could have led to the planes interacting slightly differently with the physics engine in the game, resulting in the differences we see in the tests. That could explain why the devs themselves said they were equal if they didn't anticipate how the different placements would interact with the physics engine.
@@LeotseilGaming No problem, and, yeah that actually maps pretty closely with what I was thinking. I suppose without looking under the hood there's no way to know for sure, but, whether the calculations are done between the player model and the vehicle's designated center of mass, or actual lift bodies in built to the model, I assume any deviation could affect the output. I'll keep my eyes on!
My dad liked this game cause you could just jump in and play and be as good as everyone else unlike all the new pay to win and grind to win games. I only played it a bit but it’s one of the best battlefields ever
I know there are people trying to get custom servers working on PC with PS3/360 emulation. Now, while it will be very interesting to see if they can get it working, a big challenge would be if they can make the barriers to entry low enough to get a decent amount of players. If you need a working PS3/360 that you need to jailbreak in order to get the game files, I fear the barriers to entry will be very high.
The differences felt might be like you get in Warthunder, where the "popular" or recognizable tanks have lower stats because newer players gravitate to them initially before learning better skills. That might be why Americans felt underpowered, because generally higher skilled players might choose Japanese more often.
There were definitely some highly skilled players that would try to go for the Japanese planes, even when they playing on the American side. But then you get into a chicken-or-the-egg situation. Did a lot of players feel the Corsair was underpowered just because there were so many skilled players taking the Zero, or did skilled players try to take the Zero because it was overpowered? In this case, I think it was the case of the Zero being superior to the Corsair, which resulted in some skilled players trying to get a hold of a Zero no matter what faction they were on for a specific match.
I remember playing this beautiful game and I can say the only advantage the zero has is it's gun placements compared to the f4u corsair because the zero has 1 on each wing and 2 on the nose while the corsair had 2 on each wing and none on the nose, thus you can aim easier on the A6M2 compared to the F4U Corsair
That was exactly what I thought when I started doing research for this video. But I was in for a big surprise when I started doing tests because while the Corsair had all four guns at the wings, the devs would move the hitboxes of two of the bullets closer to the center of the plane so that the guns would behave exactly like the Zero...however, they forgot to move the hitboxes when in third person for some strange reason. I show this in the video starting from 10:38. If you go earlier in the video, I do comparisons of the roll, pitch and yaw for the two planes. I was so sure before going in that these would be equal for the two planes, but again I was in for a big surprise.
I was surprised as well! I wrote this while watching for the first time haha! Thank you so much for making this video! I very much enjoy taking a nostalgic watch back to my childhood🎉@LeotseilGaming
@@stormtroopercommander7947 You're quite welcome! Good to hear you enjoyed the video! I would do that first loop-test over and over again because I was so sure that I had to be doing something wrong. And when I discovered the guns for the Corsair behaving differently in third person, I couldn't believe my eyes! I have a feeling that the planes were supposed to be equal, but that something happened during development, a mistake or something, that resulted in them not being equal.
The corsair is supposed to have better energy retention, higher top speed and better handling at higher speeds. The zero is a turn fighter and as such should have low energy retention, low high speed, and the controls got compression at lower speeds. If a corsair has altitude advantage, it should just dive on the zero and fly away, whereas the zero wants to bait the corsair into a turn fight and wait for the pilot to make a mistake. For the guns, in the wings it's about convergence rate meaning where the bullets intersect.
Maybe they will remaster it as a Portal mode for the next Battlefield game? I would of course prefer a standalone game, but beggars can't be choosers as the saying goes.
You're actually not the first to mention that, hehe. But if I understood correctly, in that game the weapons actually were identical, but the player base thought they were different because of one having beefier sound? In BF1943, however, it is pretty clear that the planes were in fact not identical (although I have a hypothesis that they were supposed to be identical, but then something happened during development, a mistake or something that was forgotten, that for some reason resulted in them not being equal). Edit: In other comments, some have also hypothesized that perhaps the stats in the code are equal, but for some reason the different plane models interacted with the physics engine slightly differently, resulting in different performances. That would explain why the devs themselves claimed they are equal if they did not foresee how the planes would interact differently with the physics engine.
Well technically the Corsair has the advantage then because you can change which bullet pattern grouping you want depending on which point of view you're fighting in if they're banking a lot you can switch to the third so most of your rounds go towards the wings which is where they're heading on either side but if your dog fighting and you want to hit sitter mass and you want to do first person so you can get those center line rounds that you don't get off third person even though your wings are halved in damage output, yeah?
i flew the planes for years and i ve mastered both planes and i can say with 100% certainty that the zero is just superior in all aspects of flying. The differences were so big that you had to fly the corsair completely different in order to even try to compete against the zero in a dogfight, the only good thing the corsair had against the zero was the ability to turn sharper while doing turns with one wing in the water. (also better at doing stalls) The bullets would for some reason not register in multiplayer servers, they were a lot more "fragile" to lag which made them useles at times and it wasnt rare to lose a winning position faceoff. Divebombing and strafing were harder in the corsair, once you started to descend, the thing would just get pulled down a lot more. As for competitive play it made a massive difference if you were to pull the stats for all PMs that had rather balanced players in both teams, the IJN won a lot more often due to how much effect the planes had in game. A skilled pilot could destroy all your team's tanks like nothing leaving your flags vulnarable. As for your statisctics, good job man the standard deviation that should have appeared if the planes were equal was nowhere to be seen lol. Also im interested about the win ratios between USMC and IJN. Also as a side note the graph would have been even more in favour of the zero if you were to took data from the last 3-4 years of the game. The same video could be made for jets in BF3 and Bf4 ... idk why dice cant balance aircrafts right.
Thanks for an interesting read. The win ratio between USMC and IJN would definitely have been interesting to know, but unfortunately I don't think that is a stat that is available (I would have to double check, though). However, one might be able to say something about it based on the rest of the stats available since we do have a lot of stats of every weapon and vehicles on both sides. I also don't have a time stamp for the data, which I could have used to look at data from only the last 3-4 years of the game. I do have timestamps for when a player last received an in-game stamp, such as leatherneck, so I might in theory be able to compare players that played in the last years of the game to players that only played in the first few years. I will probably do follow-up videos at some point where I look at more stats, so this could be one thing I take a closer look at in one of those videos.
@LeotseilGaming yeah do them if you have the time. This video was well put together. Also another stat that is a big red flag with the plane balance is times killed by X vehichle. if you d go check your own stats the times killed by zero would be higher than times killed by corsair, im 100% sure. If you were then able to get the same type of data from multiple accounts you could make a graph. (thats just an example ofc, no nedd to do that unless you want)
I can totally understand that feeling, especially for anyone that care about historical accuracy in WW2 shooters. Personally, I think it fitted this game as it was more of a simple arcade shooter and having the two sides being basically identical made it easier to provide balance between the two sides.
I actually prefer this graphics to that of modern shooters. For me this struck the perfect balance between fidelity and clarity. Games like BFV certainty look better, but I find that the visuals in that game are so cluttered that I can't see the enemy most of the time. Although, it would have been nice to see how the graphics in BF1943 would have looked if we had the PC port and was able to render the game in a higher resolution.
The plane difference can be easily explained. It's just a simple mistake. Both planes most likely inherit from the same base plane class. But each plane prob has variables that can be tweaked per plane type. The person who programmed the plane prob accidentally changed the pitch and yaw speeds on the zero for testing and that's how they stayed when the game was released. It's not a dark scheme from DICE or whatever lol it's just a simple and human mistake. Something that would nowadays be fixed with a patch.
Yeah, I would say that is the most likely explanation. The real question then becomes why didn't they fix it? Since players complained about the planes being different, I would imagine the devs would check the code at some point. The game was digital only, so I would imagine they would be able to patch it. Maybe the team had moved on at that point and DICE/EA couldn't justify the cost required for the team to go back and fix the problem?
What a game and what a video, congratulations 🎉 This video made me so happy to see this awesome game again. I played a lot matches, with my brother, and it was a blast, I even played the planes mode. For the video, it was very enjoyable to watch. For me, I always thought that the zero was nimbler and the crossair had a bit more armor, it seems I was right one of those things xD Once again, congratulations for this awesome video. You have a new subscriber 😊
Now, I do love a good wrench, hehe. While I would say the evidence points pretty clearly to the Zero being superior, I wouldn't be surprised if a player's perception of a plane, weapon or vehicle could have a significant impact on how that player performed with said weapon, plane or vehicle. What would have been very interesting to know, is whether your perception of the Corsair being stronger actually made you perform better in the Corsair compared to the Zero. If you ever go to the website in the description of the video to check out your stats, I would be very curious to know the results.
@@LeotseilGaming Well first off I probably wouldn't fit into your criteria because I was one of those casuals who only picked up planes to have fun once in a while. My thing was more dive bombing than dogfighting anyway, I didn't get many air kills. I did notice the Zeroes felt a bit nimbler but I figured that was intentional because ... it's supposed to be a nimbler airframe, that's what I expected from it. I also thought the Sherman had more armor, but I assume that was again just preconceptions mixed with visuals. I almost wonder if the difference in machine gun trajectories in 3rd person effected my ability to hit long range shots... I'm one of those crazy people who _prefers_ wing mounted guns because it lets you cover a wider area while strafing. Now that I think about it a big strategy I used to use was hosing down treetops on Guadalcanal so I could see people on the ground... that would've been easier with wing guns instead of nose guns. As would've been hitting infantry targets on the move. Pre-post update: I looked up my main account of the 3 I used and it turns out... yes I did do substantially better in the Corsair. Zero stats: Killed by 89 times Killed in 29 times Kills with 13 Compared to the Corsair: Killed by 39 times Killed in 27 times Kills with 20 So yes, I remain scientifically a wrench in the theory. If only slightly. Oh one more thing... do these stats take into account people bailing out and missing the final "kill" on a destroyed vehicle? because I definitely shot like 6 or 7 people down in one life one day, but if I remember right only like... 3 them ended in a kill. The rest bailed and respawned.
@@trainknut The KM stat does not take into account people bailing out. We do, however, have number of destroyed vehicles with each plane as an available stat. If I plot a graph with "vehicles destroyed per minute" for each plane it looks pretty similar to the KM-graph.
@@LeotseilGaming I found the seconds in and it's actually(nearly) exactly the same for both. 9498 in the corsair and 9499 for the zero. Account name is CircadianRacer6 if you wanna check my numbers, I feel no shame, I was 11 years old lmao.
@LeotseilGaming ah I was joking at what looks like the slower turn rate and maybe I'm imagining it but it looks like a slower climb speed as well in the loop footage. From what I've read the wildcats suffered from stalls when going straight up much sooner than a zero would, which is something that the Japanese exploited.
@@LeotseilGamingIn a historical sense and how these planes were talked about, yes. Zeroes were about as fast as Wildcats in a level flight but retained speed and pulled better turn rates in all flight regimes in comparison to them. Corsairs were a different story though, they could just fly (vertical) circles around zeroes and dictate the engagement at will, the speed difference was just too great.
That is interesting, what do you find weird about how they behave? I have no doubt that their behavior looks bizarre to someone more knowledgeable of how a real plane should behave, as the game was more of a simplistic arcade game, but as a person not experienced in the matter it would be interesting to hear what parts of their behavior looks weird.
@@LeotseilGaming loll, you really did your due diligence to make sure all the data was accurate this was an incredibly well made vid, much better than somone who has 300 something subs 👍👍
In my opinion, the only thing they needed to do was to keep the servers open... and fix the balance between the planes... aaand finish the PC port they cancelled to work on BF3.
Unfortunately, there is not, but not because of lack of interest from the community. The problem is that the game was a digital only, console exclusive with no way of having custom servers. If we had a PC port (which they were working on, but that got cancelled) we probably would have had custom servers similar to the "Project Rome"-project for Bad Company 2 as soon as the official servers shut down. There are people working on trying to get custom servers working on PC with PS3/360 emulators, but even if they would succeed, players would still have to get a hold of the game files. The game has been delisted from both the PS store and Xbox store, so there is no way to buy it and since the game was digital only, you can't find used copies either. You would probably have to jailbreak a PS3 or 360 with the game installed to have a legal way of getting the game files, which would result in a very high barrier to entry.
@@LeotseilGaming If I may suggest, i think you could've used this video to plug the "Stop killing games" campaign. Do you know about it? It's an effort to get the laws changed so that it's illegal for companies to sell you a product and then make it unusable without giving the consumer a tool to keep it functional on their own (e.g, shut down the servers for a game you paid for without giving players community-run servers) It's very important that we raise awareness of this since they have a time limit to get a specific number of signatures for the lawmakers to consider the proposal
@sappyjohnson I also checked your last request. For players that spent 100+ hours in both planes, the average time was 335 hours in the Zero and 205 in the Corsair. Edit: As for the median times, those were 230 hours for the Zero and 153 hours for the Corsair.
It would have been fun to try out 1942, but I can only imagine the skill level on those guys who have played for so many years, heh. I actually used to play it back in the day, but only offline against bots. If I ever get back into PC gaming, trying out the online multiplayer of the original Battlefield would definitely be on my TODO list (as well as Project Rome for Bad Company 2).
What really sucks is that they cancelled the PC port. If we had that, I bet we would have been able to play on custom servers as soon as the official servers shut down.
@ Man that sucks that they didn’t go with the PC port. Game was so stupidly simple and fun. It was like, whenever I got bored of halo 3, bad co 2, or cod, I could just boot it off from my hard drive without getting up to change the disc. At least we got Bad Company 2 community servers but I also wish PC port of BC2 had controller support.
@@RobthaDogthe American M1 rifle and Sherman are slightly better than the Japanese counterparts though in my opinion haha. Japanese had the better sniper kit
I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean. What sounds like a skill issue? The reason as to why we see players performing differently with the two planes?
Everyone on an even playing field, maps built to perfection, the sounds, the fighting, the vehicle control, the interesting yet simple original ideas…this game was amazing. Wish they’d remaster it and release it again. So perfect and so many night spent with friends at a sleepover playing this game taking turns after 3 deaths each it was so peak.
A remaster would be sweet!
With the popularity of WW2 games steadily rising again, and BF5 being... mixed but ultimately accepted by the community.
I think what DICE needs to do is give us Battlefield 1944.
Since obviously this game would have iconic maps featured, give it different "playlists"
1942 - only original maps, 32vs32, remaster everything(and I mean everything, I wanna see player-controlled aircraft carriers dammit, I wanna stand on a tank's turret while it drives me into battle)
1943 - limited selection of the same maps but only in the pacific theatre, 12vs12, limited class selection, mirrored classes
1944 - take the best elements of both games, put them in 64vs64 game modes with massive battles, a modern class system, implement operations from BF1, maybe throw in a Rush mode since both 1942 and 1943 missed out on Rush. Use the original maps as a basis but expand the borders, add more detail and more character - so we can blow it all up with formations of B-17s.
@@trainknut The playlist idea is quite interesting. Then you can cater to both fans of the original who enjoyed the smaller maps and 12v12, as well as players who enjoy larger scale battles with 64v64. I'm in the 12v12 camp. One aspect that I didn't enjoy in BFV was the size of the maps. I would often end up having to spend a lot of time just running from A to B to get to the action. The smaller maps of BF1943 meant I could get quicker to the action, which suited the simple "pick-up-and-play" nature of the game. I also felt the smaller 12v12 made for more intimate matches where one would often end up with fun rivalries against players on the enemy team. Being 12v12 also meant one player could make more of a difference.
@@LeotseilGaming I'm a veteran of both 1942 and 1943, I want to see both experiences remastered, because like you said, the experience is just so much different in 12v12 on small maps.
But I also just want to see DICE make the final sequel to the original game we were all expecting after Bad Company 2 and BF3.
It's been 23 years, how has Battlefield NEVER done the player controlled battleships and aircraft carriers since 2002?? Much as I want to experience the OG battlefield again, I also want to see them do something NEW with the WW2 setting.
And no, not like BF5... god damn that game pissed me off.
Reminds me of the SMGs in Wolfenstein Enemy Territory, where they had to change the sounds of the guns because the players in testing thought the Thompson was more powerful than the MP-40 despite them having the exact same stats and complained. Turns out the Thompson just sounded more powerful.
Hehe, I didn't know that one. Just goes to show the power of good audio. Audio is another aspect that BF1943 did extremely well. Not only the sound effects themselves (which were very good), but also the sound engine. The way it handled dynamics just made the guns and explosions feel so powerful.
And by extension, players were more confident with the Thompson, making its kill statistics better
I mean they didn't just "believe" Thompson was stronger, most of the sound bias came from the caliber the Tommy gun fired, .45 ACP, whereas the MP-40 fired 9mm.
Why nerf Thompson audio when you can buff the MP40? Arrowhead style gamedev lol
@@josephmontanaro2350 I don't remember for sure if they did that or the other way around, but that's the memory I have. Neither of us have any idea of the audio solution they had or if turning the bass up on the mp40 made it sound like shit or something.
the Q33 hatemail mid-match, ahhhh the nostalgia 😂
In all seriousness though this is a great video, nice work man! :)
That dude was so fast at sending messages. His best skill.
Haha, I was curious if anyone would notice that one.
Funnily enough the corsair had one advantage over the zero, but it was extremely hard to master it. The corsair had better stability when executing a turn while dipping the wing into the water. I'm not sure if you know of this trick as only a few players knew of it but you could turn so much faster if you dipped your wing into the water. As shown here at 4:20: ua-cam.com/video/gA-C_Hh83pA/v-deo.html
While both planes could turn at the same speed if you mastered this skill, I found that the corsair was far easier to control when doing the wing dip turn.
I learned about it eventually, but I never got any good at it. That is very interesting that the Corsair was easier to control with that trick. Thanks for the link!
It was indeed possible to out turn a Zero while wing dipping with the Corsair due to as you say, better stability(the Zero`s agility suffered from being slighty more twitchy while dipping) so a more "planted/heavier" Corsair could be easier to control(I still prefered the Zero`s nimbleness). An equally well executed wing dipping Zero pilot vs a Corsair pilot could do this for "ages" and "never" catch each other😂 I remember a stubborn EGCxxx Zero pilot and a stubborn myself going on and on for what felt like an eternity at Iwo Jima, but eventually the Corsair caught the Zero😅..
@@laurwho592 Ah EGC304, he was my biggest nemesis XD
@@battlefieldplays2754 He was good but I dont think I would single out anyone in particular in regards to having a nemesis. The top guys could all be listed in this category at times, and it depended on the flow and momentum of a specific game whether or not, such a nemesis would and could be singled out in my view. Ah the good times this game gave us, sometimes bad, some hate, but all worth it.😂
As someone who has never played this game, I didn't expect to finish the video to the end... But, I did!
This was a very enjoyable and well put together video! Although the other content on this channel doesn't interest me as much, I'd be glad to see more of these kinds of videos.
Thank you!
Thanks, man, appreciate it! It's nice to hear that the video can be interesting for someone who didn't play the game, because when I was making the video I knew that the topic most likely would be very niche: Very interesting for players who played the game a lot, but perhaps not so much for others. I want to make more videos like this from time to time, although most of my content will admittedly be similar to what you already see on the channel. I have, however, put playlists on the front of my channel to make it easier to find these kind of "special" videos among the rest of my content when I do make them.
@@LeotseilGaming Even though I haven't played BF1943, I do enjoy the BF games and have a passing interest in planes (I really like the Zero), so those might be the reasons why I got recommended something as niche as this.
Anyway, I will be looking out for videos of interest to me on this channel and I can only hope you're having a good time making these videos, no matter if they're not for everyone.
Also going through that playlist, I can't believe you've both planned ahead, recorded and intend to make 1000 episodes of BF1943! That is some insane dedication. I hope there is a way you (and everyone else) can get to enjoy the game online again, either through emulation or some other way.
@the_zens It was a fun project to try to reach 1000 episodes before the servers shut down. Every episode is actually already made, uploaded and has a schedule set for when it will automatically go live. So I could technically just lean back and let the channel run itself until the last episode goes live on November 23rd, 2027, hehe.
@@LeotseilGaming That's even more insane! I wonder how long it took for UA-cam to process them. I wish you all the best!
truly a monument to how solid design and care is all gamers want. a game litteraly a xbox arcade testbed for the at the time brand new frostbite engine and its destruction. truly remarkable
Yeah, this game was such a gem!
Have to wonder just how many dogfights were lost because of that gun placement bug. Perhaps that's why no-one played the Aerial Assault mode
Although I don't have data to back this up, I have a feeling most players would play in first person when they enter into a dogfight (although I do know of a few that would play in third), which would have made them equal as far as the guns are concerned (they would still be more likely to loose because of the differences in maneuverability, though). It would have been very interesting to find a way to do a survey of the player base to ask how many would play in third and first person while in dogfights and compare the stats of players that preferred third and first person.
@@LeotseilGaming when the air superiority mode dropped its all I played and I became a mini god at it and yes most games the zeros would mop the decks with the corsairs and I know for a fact I always flew around in 3rd person but absolutely always switched to first person every time. the zero would always turn in on you if tried turn fighting it and it could always just lead it’s shots into you and absolutely wreck you
@@andrewholm6341 I think it's a pity that so few players played air superiority in the later years, because it could be pretty fun. When I got back into this game in 2023, I would often go into air superiority to see if anyone was playing. However, most of the time I was either alone, or there were maybe one more player there, and then it was often a player not playing the game but just jumping in place to try to get the 100 matches played achievement.
There is no doubt that the Zero performed way better than the Corsair. For me the M1 Garand also performed better than the Type 4 when aiming down the sights. The iron sights were just better on the M1, so I would always try to pick up the M1 when playing as the japanese. Great video.
The Corsair would always fire rubber bullets compared to the Zero haha in most head to head battles
Thanks! It would be interesting to check the database if players performed differently with the M1 Garand and Type 4.
That's funny I always preferred the japanese rifle's sights
Sad to see the last of Battlefield 1943, but a lot of us are still playing Battlefield *1942* online. Great games never die.
If I ever get back into PC gaming, trying out 1942 online would be on my TODO-list. I used to play it back in the day, but then only offline against bots.
@@LeotseilGaming Graphically, 1942 is on par with 1943, and it's still hella fun even after almost 25 years! What's cool is that because these games are so old you can max out all the graphical settings even on old laptops or PCs and still get massive framerates.
This game was a gem and this video documentary brought back so many memories playing 1943. Thank you.
You're quite welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I never played 1943 because I was veeery late to the PS3/360 era and also still happy with 1942 on PC, but after seeing this, I really wish I'd given it a try.
It was such a simple and fun game.
This was your BEST clip ever! Now I can finally die in piece, as my insight has been proven for good.
RIP
Hehe, thanks!
This channel is so underrated. I love it
Thanks, appreciate it. Always good to hear when people are enjoying the content.
Legit one of the best UA-cam game documentaries I have ever seen: the progression from gameplay to data mining, the suspense, and to top it all off over a game I adored as a kid. I give this the coveted Kyle ABSOLUTE CINEMA award 🥇 🎉❤
Thanks, man, you are too kind.
The ending monolog is what id assume ww2 vets going back to reinactments or ceramonies at iwojima ir normandy feel, hauntingly poetic
I can only imagine how strange it must have felt for them to see those reenactments without hearing the deafening sound of gunfire and explosions.
Great video for my birthday thanks Leo! 👏😁
HBD Craig 🎉
Glad you liked it, and happy birthday!
@@RobthaDogThanks Rob! 😊
This is honestly a great video I really really enjoyed watching it.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I love this game, I’ve played it every so often from the day it came out to the day it got taken off. Great video
Thanks! Yeah, it was such a great game.
@ out of curiosity, where did you find the stats for the time/ kills in the planes? That’s what I primarily did. I was definitely in the 100+ group
@@SuperVette-in6bt There was a used on reddit/discord that did an amazing job archiving the stats of players in the game before the shutdown. I have some links in the description to websites that he made, one where you can check stats of individual players and one where you can download the whole database (as well as one with a description of the data available for each player).
@@LeotseilGaming thank you again keep up the hard work
Man I miss this game... Was so simple, turn your brain off, jump in, pick a class, shoot people and blow stuff up, have fun. Glad to know I wasn't going insane thinking that I did way better in a Zero than in a Corsair somehow, thank you for your video!
Yeah, it was such a great game. Glad you liked the video!
i would love for EA to reopen servers for this game, it was such a classic and it gives me childhood nostalgia
Yeah, that would have been sweet.
Port it to PC. Literaly just free money.
@@robertharris6092 They actually had a PC version in the works, but it got cancelled in order to focus all development on BF3. I don't know if it was finished or not, but at least they wouldn't need to port it from scratch.
As somebody who didn't get a chance to play BF1943 (never had a PS3 or 360), this video was very interesting. The guns in 3rd vs.1st person seem like a simple oversight (I know of something similar in BF1, where the origin point of the Flanker Tank's shells will change depending on what perspective the driver is using). The maneuverability, on the other hand, makes me wonder if the planes do have the same stats in the code, but the way those stats interact with the physics engine gives an advantage to the Zero somehow.
That is a very intriguing hypothesis. While I find it odd that the different plane models would interact that differently with the physics engine with the same values in the code, it would explain why the devs would think they are equal if they didn't anticipate how the different planes would interact differently with the physics engine. Now I'm even more curious to the reason why the planes handled differently, hehe.
@@LeotseilGaming My theory is actually along the lines of it having something to do with the position of the pilot, and thus what's considered the "center" of the plane. The Corsair's cockpit is a bit further back on the airframe than the Zero's, so maybe that's an angle worth investigating.
Also, I forgot to ask in my initial post, but was there any significant difference between the stats of PS3 and X360 pilots?
@@TheD3rp2 Ah, that is an interesting angle that would have been worth investigating. I'm not quite sure how one would go about testing that, though, since we only have the tutorial to play in. This is a good example of where being able to host a private match would have been useful since we could have had players spectating the planes from different angles while they did maneuvers.
I haven't checked the differences between PS3 and X360 pilots, but that is worth checking into. I will probably do follow-up videos at some points where I look at more stats from the database (and not only for the planes). One have to be a bit careful when interpreting the results from looking at PS3 and X360 players, though. If one platform had the more skilled players, one would think that they would have higher stats, for instance, higher kills per minute. However, every player on that platform would also have more skilled opponents, which could balance the stats so that they would appear similar to the other platform.
@@LeotseilGaming I'm more interested in the differences between the two versions of the game, such as (to use a purely hypothetical example) the Zero's maneuverability advantage being less pronounced on the PS3. From a look at the combined stats I don't that's the case, but it's always worth checking out.
@TheD3rp2 Now that would have been interesting to check out. The obvious approach would be to just do the same tests in the tutorial on Xbox and PS3, but unfortunately the tutorial is only available to Xbox players for some strange reasons. On PS3 you needed access to the servers to go into the tutorials, which means they can't get in. Maybe there could be a way to investigate some of the differences based on the available stats, but I would have to think a bit on how to best approach such an analysis.
Edit: Thinking about it, I think we should except to see a different trend line on PS3 and Xbox if there were differences between the planes on PS3 and Xbox even if there were differences between the skills between the platforms. I think I'll have to make a video about this at some point.
I quite enjoyed your scientific approach to such a trivial question. I wish I had the same enthusiasm when it came to writing my master’s thesis,
Glad you enjoyed it! Writing a master's thesis is no small feat. What's the topic of your thesis?
@@LeotseilGaming Well, it’s about correlation of self-regulation activities with subjective sense of vitality, but I’ll also include activities like gaming. Seeing your correlation charts reminded me of my work ahead. I gotta admit that I’m not the biggest fun of statistics, but you reminded me that it can be fun. 😊
@Gusararr Oh, interesting topic! I must admit I have little to no knowledge about the concept of vitality, but I have done a bit of reading into Self-Determination Theory (SDT) and I notice that Ryan and Deci (founders of the SDT theory) have a model of vitality based on SDT that factors in how self-regulation affects vitality, where they argue that some forms of regulation (controlled) can deplete vitality while others (autonomous) will not. Are you by any chance investigating this model in your research or is it not relevant for your research question? Statistics can be very fun, but the careful when interpreting the results of a correlation analysis. There are a lot of pitfalls to fall into.
Amazing video man, really miss this game. Def will be subbing
Thanks, appreciate it!
I can't believe it, he finally did it, he finally proved that it's possible to be straight AND kiss your homies goodnight. I can now rest easy.
I have no idea what that means in the context of the video, but glad to be of service, heh.
@LeotseilGaming Absolutely nothing to do with the video, but the idea of someone reading it and being momentarily confused made me laugh.
@@the_real_Kurt_Yarish Haha, well good sir, I can tell you that you succeeded.
great video man.
really well done!
Thanks, man, appreciate it! It was a lot of fun to make.
Awesome video, really miss this game !
Thanks!
I love this type of videos, good job man.
Thanks!
More videos like this!! Id love to see differences in other games like battlefield 4
I have ideas for other analytical videos, but then it will probably just be more from BF1943 since that is the game I played and know.
Very good 👏 I can see the new series on the horizon… “Leo Investigates”
Hehe, I actually have ideas for other investigation videos.
I played this when it was new but quickly moved on with BFBC2 when it came out. I’m with you that it’s interesting they’re not the same, great work, great video, great charts🤙🏻
Thanks! I used to play both BF1943 and BFBC2 on PS3 back in the day. I used to switch between the two, but BF1943 was always the game I gravitated towards the most. However, I have been wondering of getting into PC gaming to try out Project Rome. Is sucks that we didn't get a PC release of BF1943 because it would have been so sweet to have something like Project Rome for BF1943.
@SixfiveBowman I moved on to BC 2 as well. I probably would have returned, but Birds of Prey multiplayer really captured my attention, and it led me down the PC combat sim path. BF 1943 was my gateway into aerial combat.
Amazing video, instant sub, really love your style and the work you put in, ill gladly follow you from here and on
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
Been a minute since this game got mentioned but looking back at it now and the fun that i had yeah the zero did felt smoother
I felt that too, but I always thought it was just in my head.
Even when i was a young kid i could tell the planes were different. I wonder if the tanks or other vehicles are the same. The 1st and 3rd person difference is shocking tho.
I was so sure it was just in my mind because of the different camera positions, so would do the tests over and over again because I thought I had to be doing something wrong. I couldn't believe my eyes when I noticed the difference between 1st and 3rd. That had to be a simple oversight by the devs that slipped through.
I will probably make a follow-up video or two at some points where I look at more stats, including comparing vehicles and weapons.
I so sorely miss this game. It was to me, the best game ever.
Yeah, me too. It was such a great and unique game.
The Zero's biggest advantage against the Corsair was it's ability to turn faster than the Corsair. If both players were turning the same direction, the Zero would eventuality catch up with and get behind the Corsair. This is not up for debate and is 100% accurate. I also felt the Zero was easier to aim, although I suspect the Corsair had a sweet spot where its guns would be more effective than the Zero.
Before making this video, I was so sure that it was just an imagined difference because of the different camera positions, like the devs said, but man was I in for a surprise when I started doing systematic testing.
@LeotseilGaming They should have made the Corsair have noticeably higher top speed to better balance the difference.
@brandonglosson1628 Personally, I would have preferred if they just made them totally equal. I have a feeling they were supposed to be equal (why else would the dev say they are equal?), but that something happened during development, a mistake that was made or something, which resulted in them not being equal.
Irl main downside of the zero was high speed turning (Wings could not support these & broke off to keep it brief)
Glad this popped into my recommendations.
I'm surprised to learn from those stats that I only played 50 matches. I had a bunch of hours; may have been that I left some before completion? I dunno.
Yeah, that is a bit strange. I wouldn't be surprised if the match would get added to stats at the end of the match, so that could be a possible explanation.
Great breakdown. Well done! After this I had to check my stats.
shiki_con, my main account, at a total time of 272 hours in game, my Kills per minute are 1.23 for the Zero and .97 for the Corsair.
After I got good, I created a second account to capture a snapshot of my current skill level.
Da40yearoldgamer, at a total time of 7 hours, my kills per minute are 1.65 in the Zero and 1.09 in the Corsair.
Thanks! Those stats line up nicely with the findings in the video. Nice gamertag on your second account, hehe.
21:20 I believe a good synapses for this part of the video and how you were feeling is the old quote "you may take the dog out of the fight, but you'll never take the fight out of the dog"
WHAT A GAME - my favourite game of all time too
Yeah, it was so good!
Excellent video and thank you for sharing the link to the database.
I'm wondering if you saw a big difference in time spent in the zero vs corsair among the more skilled pilots?
Thanks! I don't have the exact numbers right now, but I think players spent considerably more time in the Zero. I should check that out.
got goosebumps at the flyng tiger.....
2.5k views is sooo low for this hi quality video
@@kediester5393 You're too kind. I've actually never had a video with this many views, so I'm actually pretty stoked.
Before the final answer my guess is they intended to change the machine gun placements on the plains but from time crunch or whatever they just made it look like it was different in first person but in actual reality it was unchanged and unbalanced but most people don't fight in third person so I guess they figured the first person's which would be enough to fool people
I definitely think they intended for the guns to be equal, but as for the reason why they ended up being not equal, your guess is as good as mine.
if you have the game files i think there's existing tools for fbrb files (frostbite resource bundles) that can extract the game scripts. you should be able to get the exact values on turning speed and such
It would have been so interesting to read those scripts.
So, I (Combined 32 hours flight experience) never knew about the water wing method mentioned by that other commenter, however I _had_ developed a technique that allowed me to somewhat compensate for the Corsair's lack of maneuverability in the air..
*Negative G maneuvers*
While I had by no means 'mastered' the technique (I'm sure someone could do it better), I definitely had a feel for it, and it allowed me to pull out an edge over mid-to-upper teir Zero pilots multiple times.
I'm not quite sure how exactly the physics model is set up, as planes glide more like pool torpedoes through water than they fly like actual aircraft, however _I believe_ it has something to do with increasing the plane's angle of attack (or is it decreasing because you're upside down? 🤔)
I can't say if it makes the Corsair 'turn faster', per'se, however it *does* allow you to theoretically get your guns on target _sooner_ in the turning radius.
It also has an effect on speed, allowing you to (if timed correctly) channel *both* the negative G *and* reduced speed effects together, to _very quickly_ alter your nose angle within a given range.
_Additionally,_ if you channel the peak momentum by letting completely off the throttle, then hammering it down, you can send your plane into a sort of 'in-air' drift, or side-slip turn.
The combat effectiveness of that drift maneuver is questionable short of close range evasion.. but I'm sure it could've been developed further had it been shared.
Worth noting, the trick *did* seem less effective/not worth effort in the Zero, either because of the turning differences, _OR_ my running theory.
It's the difference in the placement of the physics actors on the models.
In the same way jeep tires, and tank treads/hitboxes and barrels all line up with their models correctly, _the same can be said for the Zero and Corsair. So, while the _*_raw stats_*_ may_ just be identical, their placement relative to the model could result in the discrepancy we observe.
Hop into the tutorial and see if you can't pull off these negative G maneuvers. The Corsair almost feels 'heavier', like it's throwing its weight around, or like you can more easily deviate its drift angle.
Oh and, *Thank you for the video* btw
As someone who was primarily a pilot in this game, I really appreciated the lengths you went to here. It was cool charting my KPM improvements across my three profiles over the years, and it lined up just about perfectly with your findings.
Thanks, it's always interesting to hear about tricks and maneuvers from pilots in the game. There was actually another comment that also hypothesized the placement of the pilot being a factor that could have led to the planes interacting slightly differently with the physics engine in the game, resulting in the differences we see in the tests. That could explain why the devs themselves said they were equal if they didn't anticipate how the different placements would interact with the physics engine.
@@LeotseilGaming No problem, and, yeah that actually maps pretty closely with what I was thinking.
I suppose without looking under the hood there's no way to know for sure, but, whether the calculations are done between the player model and the vehicle's designated center of mass, or actual lift bodies in built to the model, I assume any deviation could affect the output.
I'll keep my eyes on!
My dad liked this game cause you could just jump in and play and be as good as everyone else unlike all the new pay to win and grind to win games. I only played it a bit but it’s one of the best battlefields ever
Yeah, the simple pick-up-and-play nature of this game was a a big draw for me as well.
Still waiting for community servers for Battlefield 1943 (PS3 version). I hope we get them soon.
I know there are people trying to get custom servers working on PC with PS3/360 emulation. Now, while it will be very interesting to see if they can get it working, a big challenge would be if they can make the barriers to entry low enough to get a decent amount of players. If you need a working PS3/360 that you need to jailbreak in order to get the game files, I fear the barriers to entry will be very high.
The differences felt might be like you get in Warthunder, where the "popular" or recognizable tanks have lower stats because newer players gravitate to them initially before learning better skills. That might be why Americans felt underpowered, because generally higher skilled players might choose Japanese more often.
There were definitely some highly skilled players that would try to go for the Japanese planes, even when they playing on the American side. But then you get into a chicken-or-the-egg situation. Did a lot of players feel the Corsair was underpowered just because there were so many skilled players taking the Zero, or did skilled players try to take the Zero because it was overpowered? In this case, I think it was the case of the Zero being superior to the Corsair, which resulted in some skilled players trying to get a hold of a Zero no matter what faction they were on for a specific match.
I remember playing this beautiful game and I can say the only advantage the zero has is it's gun placements compared to the f4u corsair because the zero has 1 on each wing and 2 on the nose while the corsair had 2 on each wing and none on the nose, thus you can aim easier on the A6M2 compared to the F4U Corsair
That was exactly what I thought when I started doing research for this video. But I was in for a big surprise when I started doing tests because while the Corsair had all four guns at the wings, the devs would move the hitboxes of two of the bullets closer to the center of the plane so that the guns would behave exactly like the Zero...however, they forgot to move the hitboxes when in third person for some strange reason. I show this in the video starting from 10:38. If you go earlier in the video, I do comparisons of the roll, pitch and yaw for the two planes. I was so sure before going in that these would be equal for the two planes, but again I was in for a big surprise.
I was surprised as well! I wrote this while watching for the first time haha! Thank you so much for making this video! I very much enjoy taking a nostalgic watch back to my childhood🎉@LeotseilGaming
@@stormtroopercommander7947 You're quite welcome! Good to hear you enjoyed the video!
I would do that first loop-test over and over again because I was so sure that I had to be doing something wrong. And when I discovered the guns for the Corsair behaving differently in third person, I couldn't believe my eyes! I have a feeling that the planes were supposed to be equal, but that something happened during development, a mistake or something, that resulted in them not being equal.
The corsair is supposed to have better energy retention, higher top speed and better handling at higher speeds. The zero is a turn fighter and as such should have low energy retention, low high speed, and the controls got compression at lower speeds. If a corsair has altitude advantage, it should just dive on the zero and fly away, whereas the zero wants to bait the corsair into a turn fight and wait for the pilot to make a mistake. For the guns, in the wings it's about convergence rate meaning where the bullets intersect.
I know so little of how the real planes performed, so this was an interesting read.
Such a simple yet amazing game that needs a remaster
Maybe they will remaster it as a Portal mode for the next Battlefield game? I would of course prefer a standalone game, but beggars can't be choosers as the saying goes.
It's the Enemy Territory MP40 vs. Thompson all over again.
You're actually not the first to mention that, hehe. But if I understood correctly, in that game the weapons actually were identical, but the player base thought they were different because of one having beefier sound? In BF1943, however, it is pretty clear that the planes were in fact not identical (although I have a hypothesis that they were supposed to be identical, but then something happened during development, a mistake or something that was forgotten, that for some reason resulted in them not being equal).
Edit: In other comments, some have also hypothesized that perhaps the stats in the code are equal, but for some reason the different plane models interacted with the physics engine slightly differently, resulting in different performances. That would explain why the devs themselves claimed they are equal if they did not foresee how the planes would interact differently with the physics engine.
That was a good set of tests which has finally proven what I have felt all along that the Zero's were the better planes.
I even see my tag in the gameplay shown, not being shot down by you though :p
@@SlayerEddyTV Hehe, well spotted! It was always nice to have you on the same team, keeping the sky clean.
Well technically the Corsair has the advantage then because you can change which bullet pattern grouping you want depending on which point of view you're fighting in if they're banking a lot you can switch to the third so most of your rounds go towards the wings which is where they're heading on either side but if your dog fighting and you want to hit sitter mass and you want to do first person so you can get those center line rounds that you don't get off third person even though your wings are halved in damage output, yeah?
Interesting point.
i flew the planes for years and i ve mastered both planes and i can say with 100% certainty that the zero is just superior in all aspects of flying. The differences were so big that you had to fly the corsair completely different in order to even try to compete against the zero in a dogfight, the only good thing the corsair had against the zero was the ability to turn sharper while doing turns with one wing in the water. (also better at doing stalls)
The bullets would for some reason not register in multiplayer servers, they were a lot more "fragile" to lag which made them useles at times and it wasnt rare to lose a winning position faceoff.
Divebombing and strafing were harder in the corsair, once you started to descend, the thing would just get pulled down a lot more.
As for competitive play it made a massive difference if you were to pull the stats for all PMs that had rather balanced players in both teams, the IJN won a lot more often due to how much effect the planes had in game. A skilled pilot could destroy all your team's tanks like nothing leaving your flags vulnarable.
As for your statisctics, good job man the standard deviation that should have appeared if the planes were equal was nowhere to be seen lol. Also im interested about the win ratios between USMC and IJN. Also as a side note the graph would have been even more in favour of the zero if you were to took data from the last 3-4 years of the game.
The same video could be made for jets in BF3 and Bf4 ... idk why dice cant balance aircrafts right.
Thanks for an interesting read. The win ratio between USMC and IJN would definitely have been interesting to know, but unfortunately I don't think that is a stat that is available (I would have to double check, though). However, one might be able to say something about it based on the rest of the stats available since we do have a lot of stats of every weapon and vehicles on both sides. I also don't have a time stamp for the data, which I could have used to look at data from only the last 3-4 years of the game. I do have timestamps for when a player last received an in-game stamp, such as leatherneck, so I might in theory be able to compare players that played in the last years of the game to players that only played in the first few years. I will probably do follow-up videos at some point where I look at more stats, so this could be one thing I take a closer look at in one of those videos.
@LeotseilGaming yeah do them if you have the time. This video was well put together. Also another stat that is a big red flag with the plane balance is times killed by X vehichle. if you d go check your own stats the times killed by zero would be higher than times killed by corsair, im 100% sure. If you were then able to get the same type of data from multiple accounts you could make a graph. (thats just an example ofc, no nedd to do that unless you want)
20:20 the flying tigers were a group of chinese piolets led by america during WWII that fought off the japanese.
I had no idea, thanks for letting me know! I wish I knew that while writing the script because I probably would have mentioned it in the video.
did they use corsairs?
@@EmpanadaDeCaca did the guy that named himself flying tiger name himself that with BF 1943 in mind and only play BF 1943 and nothing else?
Hope this game getting revive own host soon without EA or DICE.
1943 is arcade game on xbox
It would be very nice to see the game being revived in some way.
All I know about 1943 is how upset I was when all the links and websites originally set up for 1942 started redirecting to it instead
Yeah, that is not the way to go about promoting a new game.
I hated how both teams were basically identical in this game tbh
I can totally understand that feeling, especially for anyone that care about historical accuracy in WW2 shooters. Personally, I think it fitted this game as it was more of a simple arcade shooter and having the two sides being basically identical made it easier to provide balance between the two sides.
Game looked so good for a 20$ Arcade
I actually prefer this graphics to that of modern shooters. For me this struck the perfect balance between fidelity and clarity. Games like BFV certainty look better, but I find that the visuals in that game are so cluttered that I can't see the enemy most of the time. Although, it would have been nice to see how the graphics in BF1943 would have looked if we had the PC port and was able to render the game in a higher resolution.
My favourite game 💔💔🙏
It was such a gem of a game with no other game quite like it.
The plane difference can be easily explained. It's just a simple mistake. Both planes most likely inherit from the same base plane class. But each plane prob has variables that can be tweaked per plane type. The person who programmed the plane prob accidentally changed the pitch and yaw speeds on the zero for testing and that's how they stayed when the game was released. It's not a dark scheme from DICE or whatever lol it's just a simple and human mistake. Something that would nowadays be fixed with a patch.
Yeah, I would say that is the most likely explanation. The real question then becomes why didn't they fix it? Since players complained about the planes being different, I would imagine the devs would check the code at some point. The game was digital only, so I would imagine they would be able to patch it. Maybe the team had moved on at that point and DICE/EA couldn't justify the cost required for the team to go back and fix the problem?
I thought that this was a Mobile game at first but i just realized its from 2009
That would have been some mobile game back then, heh.
I loved this game, but i think the original Bad Company is still my favorite battlefield
A solid game for sure. I never played the multiplayer much, though. The sequel, however, that one I played a lot.
What a game and what a video, congratulations 🎉
This video made me so happy to see this awesome game again. I played a lot matches, with my brother, and it was a blast, I even played the planes mode.
For the video, it was very enjoyable to watch. For me, I always thought that the zero was nimbler and the crossair had a bit more armor, it seems I was right one of those things xD
Once again, congratulations for this awesome video. You have a new subscriber 😊
Thanks, appreciate it!
Let me throw a wrench into the conversation.
MY perception was always that the CORSAIR was the stronger plane. I always put it down to beefier sounds.
Now, I do love a good wrench, hehe. While I would say the evidence points pretty clearly to the Zero being superior, I wouldn't be surprised if a player's perception of a plane, weapon or vehicle could have a significant impact on how that player performed with said weapon, plane or vehicle.
What would have been very interesting to know, is whether your perception of the Corsair being stronger actually made you perform better in the Corsair compared to the Zero. If you ever go to the website in the description of the video to check out your stats, I would be very curious to know the results.
@@LeotseilGaming Well first off I probably wouldn't fit into your criteria because I was one of those casuals who only picked up planes to have fun once in a while. My thing was more dive bombing than dogfighting anyway, I didn't get many air kills.
I did notice the Zeroes felt a bit nimbler but I figured that was intentional because ... it's supposed to be a nimbler airframe, that's what I expected from it. I also thought the Sherman had more armor, but I assume that was again just preconceptions mixed with visuals.
I almost wonder if the difference in machine gun trajectories in 3rd person effected my ability to hit long range shots... I'm one of those crazy people who _prefers_ wing mounted guns because it lets you cover a wider area while strafing.
Now that I think about it a big strategy I used to use was hosing down treetops on Guadalcanal so I could see people on the ground... that would've been easier with wing guns instead of nose guns.
As would've been hitting infantry targets on the move.
Pre-post update: I looked up my main account of the 3 I used and it turns out... yes I did do substantially better in the Corsair.
Zero stats:
Killed by 89 times
Killed in 29 times
Kills with 13
Compared to the Corsair:
Killed by 39 times
Killed in 27 times
Kills with 20
So yes, I remain scientifically a wrench in the theory. If only slightly.
Oh one more thing... do these stats take into account people bailing out and missing the final "kill" on a destroyed vehicle? because I definitely shot like 6 or 7 people down in one life one day, but if I remember right only like... 3 them ended in a kill. The rest bailed and respawned.
@@trainknut The KM stat does not take into account people bailing out. We do, however, have number of destroyed vehicles with each plane as an available stat. If I plot a graph with "vehicles destroyed per minute" for each plane it looks pretty similar to the KM-graph.
@@LeotseilGaming I found the seconds in and it's actually(nearly) exactly the same for both.
9498 in the corsair and 9499 for the zero.
Account name is CircadianRacer6 if you wanna check my numbers, I feel no shame, I was 11 years old lmao.
@@trainknut Wow, being off by one second is crazy!
man they based the corsair off the wildcats that were getting cut down in the earlier days of the war
I'm not sure I quite follow. Do you mean that how the plane performed in the game is more similar to a Wildcat than a Corsair?
@LeotseilGaming ah I was joking at what looks like the slower turn rate and maybe I'm imagining it but it looks like a slower climb speed as well in the loop footage. From what I've read the wildcats suffered from stalls when going straight up much sooner than a zero would, which is something that the Japanese exploited.
@@LeotseilGamingIn a historical sense and how these planes were talked about, yes. Zeroes were about as fast as Wildcats in a level flight but retained speed and pulled better turn rates in all flight regimes in comparison to them. Corsairs were a different story though, they could just fly (vertical) circles around zeroes and dictate the engagement at will, the speed difference was just too great.
Best $5 I've ever spent
Yeah, the value for money this game provided was crazy.
the way the planes behave in this game looks so weird ngl
That is interesting, what do you find weird about how they behave? I have no doubt that their behavior looks bizarre to someone more knowledgeable of how a real plane should behave, as the game was more of a simplistic arcade game, but as a person not experienced in the matter it would be interesting to hear what parts of their behavior looks weird.
I knew I wasn’t crazy.
I found out I was, haha. I would do those tests over and over because I was so sure the planes were equal, like the devs said.
@@LeotseilGaming loll, you really did your due diligence to make sure all the data was accurate this was an incredibly well made vid, much better than somone who has 300 something subs 👍👍
Game was awesome. A shame they put no more efforts in it
In my opinion, the only thing they needed to do was to keep the servers open... and fix the balance between the planes... aaand finish the PC port they cancelled to work on BF3.
RIP to the best game and I think the zero is better
Yup, all evidence points to the Zero being better.
@@LeotseilGamingId also prefer it because the sound of it when you’re flying it feels smooth whereas the american one its more noisy
Is there no fan-servers for this game? Most old games just get taken over by the community after official support is gone
Unfortunately, there is not, but not because of lack of interest from the community. The problem is that the game was a digital only, console exclusive with no way of having custom servers. If we had a PC port (which they were working on, but that got cancelled) we probably would have had custom servers similar to the "Project Rome"-project for Bad Company 2 as soon as the official servers shut down. There are people working on trying to get custom servers working on PC with PS3/360 emulators, but even if they would succeed, players would still have to get a hold of the game files. The game has been delisted from both the PS store and Xbox store, so there is no way to buy it and since the game was digital only, you can't find used copies either. You would probably have to jailbreak a PS3 or 360 with the game installed to have a legal way of getting the game files, which would result in a very high barrier to entry.
@@LeotseilGaming If I may suggest, i think you could've used this video to plug the "Stop killing games" campaign. Do you know about it? It's an effort to get the laws changed so that it's illegal for companies to sell you a product and then make it unusable without giving the consumer a tool to keep it functional on their own (e.g, shut down the servers for a game you paid for without giving players community-run servers)
It's very important that we raise awareness of this since they have a time limit to get a specific number of signatures for the lawmakers to consider the proposal
I just watched this again. I'm wondering if you know who are the 2 players that had ~2.5 kills/minute in the Zero?
I'm assuming you're referring to the plot with the most experienced players? I just checked and that would be "Bramsters" and "bennibombom".
@LeotseilGaming Yes, that's correct. Well I'm not surprised by those 2 being there! Thanks
@sappyjohnson I also checked your last request. For players that spent 100+ hours in both planes, the average time was 335 hours in the Zero and 205 in the Corsair.
Edit: As for the median times, those were 230 hours for the Zero and 153 hours for the Corsair.
@LeotseilGaming Thanks again. I guess that's about what I expected. Strongly favoring the zero, but not a ridiculously huge difference.
@@LeotseilGaming those bloddy newbs🙄😅
Ah man... I thought this was 1942...
I used to play 1942 against bots way back the day. I seem to remember the planes being a bit more difficult to control in that game compared to 1943.
Well it was a skin down version of battlefield 1942. With 1/32 of the maps and 1/2 the classes. The battlefield 1942 people are still playing
It would have been fun to try out 1942, but I can only imagine the skill level on those guys who have played for so many years, heh. I actually used to play it back in the day, but only offline against bots. If I ever get back into PC gaming, trying out the online multiplayer of the original Battlefield would definitely be on my TODO list (as well as Project Rome for Bad Company 2).
I don’t blame you man I miss it to... StrahanClay dad's account... Wasn’t good.
Battlefield 43 a modded version of battlefield 1942?
No, it was a digital only, standalone game released for PS3 and Xbox 360.
@@LeotseilGaming battlefield vietnam would have been a fun add on, i miss thos gaming days, few hackers or trolls messing up games either.
If only Xbox live wasn’t sub based…
What really sucks is that they cancelled the PC port. If we had that, I bet we would have been able to play on custom servers as soon as the official servers shut down.
@
Man that sucks that they didn’t go with the PC port. Game was so stupidly simple and fun. It was like, whenever I got bored of halo 3, bad co 2, or cod, I could just boot it off from my hard drive without getting up to change the disc.
At least we got Bad Company 2 community servers but I also wish PC port of BC2 had controller support.
Deaths : 37,111
Kills : 188,811
Wins : 11,308
Losses : 1,385
Meh 😂 you should check out a statistic called ELO 👀🙂
That's an amazing W/L ratio.
@ i hand on heart had a preference for the zero, the Corsair flew like a brick 😂
@@RobthaDogthe American M1 rifle and Sherman are slightly better than the Japanese counterparts though in my opinion haha. Japanese had the better sniper kit
That is one nice KD ratio, Rob!
@@CraigSteelyard It would be interesting to check the database to see if players performed differently with the tanks and rifles.
Idk man, sound's like a skill issue
I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean. What sounds like a skill issue? The reason as to why we see players performing differently with the two planes?