Sean, very nice job in demonstrating how to have a reasonable and respectful discussion about different worldviews. Kudos to Scott and Eric as well. Thank you!
I wish that Scott could have been more forthcoming about what the LDS doctrines really are, as taught by the leadership and believed by the members. But it seems that the attempt to “water down” some aspects of the LDS faith when talking to non-members continue to go strong. I grew up LDS being taught clearly, that Heavenly Father was a man of flesh and bones, who was once a mortal man, who went through the same steps of obedience to his own god, who needed a savior himself and who, by his own works of righteousness, earned his own exaltation meaning, earned his own godhood. He sexually procreated with his celestial wife/ wives to give birth to our spirits,; he then sent us to this earth, and here the cycle began again, the making up of the next generation of gods. All LDS men have as their ultimate goal, to become gods themselves, who will repeat this process: create new worlds and be worshipped as gods by the people in their planets, who will pray to them and call them their “heavenly father”. Once I began studying the Bible apart from Smith’s interpretations, I saw how eternally devastating such gravely erroneous doctrines truly are, as they could never be reconciled with what God has already revealed of Himself in both Testaments. To the biblical God, Smith’s conception of deity is an extreme abomination, as he attempted to reduce the One who always was, is and forever will be God, into man, whom He created.
Amen! Wish more Mormons would be honest about everything you just posted. Many of the younger missionaries are actually clueless about those teachings. If you actually look back through Mormon history and read LDS publications like “The Seer”, “The Millenial Star”, the “Juvenile Instructor”, “Lectures of Faith”, the “Deseret News” as well as literature from the Journal of Discourses and History of the Church, and even personal Journals and books written by Mormon leadership/Prophets since the inception of the Church, it’s absolutely clear that the purpose of life was to become a God, have multiple wives, and physically impregnate them sending your spirit children down to earth to worship you as their God and Creator. There is absolutely no ambiguity on this throughout the Mormon Church’s history. I had no idea about all this until I went on a 2 year quest of diving deep into actual Mormon literature. It’s only until the last few decades that the Mormon Church has been back peddling and saying, “Well, we aren’t really sure about those things, a lot of it is just speculation and kind of a mystery.” I’m sorry but that is just ridiculous. If you look at what Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow and other presidents taught, it looks nothing like modern day Mormonism. Modern Mormonism is trying to blend into Christianity and sweep its original heretical teachings under the rug.
@@MapleBoarder78 Absolutely. Having been raised LDS in Brazil, I had no access to all the material you just mentioned in your comment. It was only after my LDS mission, and after learning English and getting access to them, that I also found out about how much the modern church leadership had suppressed from the regular membership about early LDS history and teachings. A lot of money has been spent by the church in PR and ads to make it look as mainstream as possible. But we will keep on speaking out and hopefully, point the way to the Cross to anyone who is as sincere in their belief of J. Smith as we used to be. We hope and wholeheartedly pray for family members and the LDS whom we have never met, to come to Christ: not the other Jesus preached by Joseph but to the biblical Jesus.
@@FromJosephtoJesus I’m so glad you found your way out! ❤️ My wife’s friend is from Brazil as well and became Mormon after two young missionaries knocked on her door and convinced her Mormonism was true. She was raised Catholic and didn’t know much, so she was easily swayed by the overly friendly and upbeat demeanor of the missionaries. We pray for her and her family. 🙏🏼
We had actually intended to cover more of these points, but ran short just on what we discussed. I’m at @ptspentax on Twitter if you want to talk more. If you talk to me on UA-cam it’s a 99% chance you’ll be talking to my teenage son who’s always commenting on Star Wars and Lego videos.
@@proudtoshootpentax Hello, Scott! Thank you for accepting to be in the conversation with Sean and Eric! That was a good thing to do. I only wish that the top leadership in the church would also begin to send their General Authorities to some of these online platforms, in order to represent their teachings in an official capacity. I see that the members who do so, either regular members or LDS scholars, are always careful to use the disclaimer that they are not representing the church, only themselves, and in that manner, there is never real accountability for any statement, only an individual’s given “opinions”. After the recording yesterday, do you still feel like Eric misrepresented LDS church teachings? I think he was actually spot on, specially in regards to the doctrines Smith taught about the nature of God, the Father and of Jesus. Eric represented it quite accurately. Oh, what a bummer that you are only on Twitter. I deleted my account there last year. Not my favorite medium. Blessings to you!
Scott, you present a gentle and no condescending man, very kind and patient. May the relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ be an ever filling grace upon grace...the truth the way and the life. As a sinner saved and reborn through Christ"s Blood, .the holy Spirit continually reveals the fullness of the Father through Jesus Christ. May your humble openness to knowing more lead you in Wisdom
Yeah, Joseph Smith made it clear that he thought Christianity was totally corrupted, and that God supposedly called him to restore the true church. Therefore, he had to make his teachings wildly unorthodoxed, which is why they're called a cult today. And this push to seem Christian is PR because people now have easy access to information about the golden tablets and book of Abraham and their cult label, which makes it very hard to recruit.
We believe the Father has a glorified and perfected body of flesh and bones the son also. The Holy Ghost is a personage of Sprit; if it was not so He could not dwell within us. A message from a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Not the same sects, but we are very much the same religion. The interpretation of Jesus, god, and the Holy Ghost is different, but we are very much Christian.
It's fairly simple, really. Take the proposition "Joseph Smith is a prophet of God" and evaluate that. The most common method and easiest to execute, uses the "Book of Mormon" which Joseph Smith allegedly wrote/translated. So the "test" then, is to take a copy of the Book of Mormon and read it. I'd suggest prayerfully doing so, as well, but I don't know if it is required. At the end of the Book of Mormon is a verse that says for anyone who receives these things to ask God if they are true. So they do that. The people who believe Joe Smith was a prophet likely have done this test and recieved, what they believe is, a confirmation from the Holy Spirit that these things are true.
1)They teach their children. 2) Converts buy into the “feelings as a barometer for truth” lie. They can and do get converted to the missionaries, and the fellowshipping of the ward and become solid in their new convictions, comparing the new church to all the negative experiences they’ve had with other churches/groups etc. Maybe this is over simplified but hope it helps.
So disappointed at the sound quality of this interview....really wanted to watch, but the breaking up of the sound constantly and the difference in volume, made it impossible. 😣
I was a Mormon for many, many years and there’s so much more that should’ve been discussed, but I understand that there’s a time crunch. I appreciated this discussion and wished more people would have hard talks like this. Kudos to both of them.
I wish the audio was better. I kept getting skips in the audio & couldn't hear Scott well. I'm near 66 yes. Old and remember meeting Mormons 30+ years ago and they then made clear to me, when I ask if they were Christians, they said no, they were Mormons. I know that has changed today. But you can't be a counterfeit when your not trying to mix into the original.
Such a great discussion. Something I’ve noticed about Muslim faith and the Mormon faith is that they rely on the testimony of someone other than the testimony of scripture. Mohammad is the voice that directed the Muslim faith and Joseph Smith is the voice that speaks for God. The interesting and beautiful reality of the Bible is that many voices were given to express one central truth of the consistency of those books written that reveals Truth and I’m so thankful for that truth who is a person and that person loves me and died for me so that I can be in relationship with Him!
The Bible is only a small portion of what was written that was sifted by the Catholic church who composed the Bible. There were 12 apostles why only 4 of them aloud into the Bible? It's like watching half of a movie and ten people all having 10 different versions of what was missing in the other missing half. Thus, no unity of faith can possibly exist with the Bible alone. The Catholic political state devided Christian's forever by compiling the Bible half way. I feel you've been deceived by men.
Eric Johnson’s viewpoint on Mormonism podcast is AWESOME!!! I’m an exmo in Utah (born and raised generational) and now that I’m out AND saved, I’m amazed at how Bible and Christian scholars, pastors, and apologists can speak with the true authority, which is a real irony because Mormons claim to have all that priesthood authority but simply are not supported by the spirit of God! It’s a beautiful thing truly!!!!
There are no biblical references that being saved means you have it made. Every one is saved by resurrection alone. You want much more than this according to Paul who saw 3 levels of heaven not just one. I feel you've only been tricked to an easier path that will not guarantee you what you think.
@@paulgregersen3570incorrect. I assume you’ll cite James 2 to back up your “easier path” claim to which we’d say READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER. Saved by grace through faith ALONE.
@@ChristianityRecap Oh no, far better than that. We have a young man getting a book of doctrine from God himself from the ground and translating it in the Bible. Also the exact spot in the Rockies pinpointed in America where the church is today found right in your Bible. Even the year 1830 in a biblical timeline reaching that date 7 times where God's kingdom is restored. You will soon see that you never knew your Bible fully. Link UTube video titled (!Book of Abraham part 7) link UTube my name to get there
@@paulgregersen3570 you’re referring to a young man who was a known con artist, pedophile and liar. If God were going to choose a prophet for a “restored gospel”, don’t you think he’d pick someone with higher character? Your “prophet” fails the rest of a prophet as well, so while you argue in the affirmative for Mormonism being the only way, you should pick up a bible and learn the real gospel friend.
Only 13 minutes in, but the minute you argue that Jesus has provided for your salvation through the restored gospel and the ordinances provided through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints you have made the Church your saviour and its members co-saviours. You have stripped the cross and the ahed blood of Jesus Christ of its power to save. You have deny that there is only one mediator between God and man and that "it is finished."
Im afraid Mr Adams seems to be very hesitant in saying what the actual teachings of the Mormon 'church' are. He seems to be very careful as to what he is prepared to admit publicly.
Have you seen FAIR, the organization that is apologetics for the Church of Jesus Christ? They host frank talks on the most controversial aspects of their faith - I don't know of a member of the Church who 'is hesitant in saying the actual teachings of the actual Church'.
How can I email Eric Johnson? I was mormon 35 years and then agnostic and new age and lost and praise God, he brought me to Christianity in May 2021 and I'm born again. But, I was taught it was mormon or the devil church like it says in the book of mormon. And, I didn't know I could have Christ without mormonism. So, I agree with him. About seeking and finding these ex mormons who are bitter and feel deceived and now they are agnostic, most my friends, and I'm in southern Utah and want to work with Eric.
Scott seems like: "this is what I believe and I respect what you believe" Eric seems like: "No, this is what you believe and either a I'm right and you're wrong or you're right and I'm wrong, we can't see it any other way." Basically, when Scott talks, this seems like a conversation. When Eric talks, it seems like a debate. Personally, I'm confused as to which end this video sought for.
@@tralfazruk1 okay. I've seen more videos from this channel and will accept this merely as a conversation for the viewers to see different perspectives. Not sure if Eric saw it that way, but no big. Do you have a different interpretation?
The thing with labeling yourself something and wanting to be included with other people labeling themselves that same thing is you have to believe the same core things. I think it was said well that Mormons use the same terms as we do, but what they believe that term means is different. So we do not follow the same doctrine from the Bible and we certainly do not follow Joseph Smith. So a Mormon labeling themselves a Christian just doesn't work. You can label yourself whatever you want, but that label is either truthful or it isn't. It's not a maybe or agree to disagree. It is a yes or a no. I can label myself as black or as royalty, but I have no African or royal lineage in me so that label isn't true. When your core beliefs are different you are not of the same religion, and our core beliefs are not the same. I say this also applies to progressive christianity. The doctrines and the core beliefs of progressive christianity are different therefore they are not the same religion.
The whole time I wished that Scott would have been asked about his definition of Jesus being his savior and Lord. It sounds the same as historical Christianity, but I would have like to hear his perspective on that and it was not questioned.
As a former LDS and now a true follower of biblical Jesus and the holy trinity, I can now call myself a true biblical Christian. The Mormon church is built on deception and the fear of losing your family in the afterlife. I pray for my family and friends who are still on the path to damnation. *My father, grandfather, and great grandfather always stated that they would become Gods. That is a factual truth for lds men. Scott is flying low on the truth.
Dee Es: Can you show a scripture from the Bible or any other scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that says mortals will become Gods? Should not be a problem for a former member. So, I patiently wait for your reply.!
@@dleoburns I'm not completely familiar with everything in the LDS "quad," but, I can tell you that (when asked directly) the missionaries I've taken lessons with, affirm that this is the belief.
Mrs. Nobody: I am not a young missionary. I am a 43-year member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The King Follett Sermon (Discourse) is not part of our doctrine/scripture. The following is what Joseph Smith, Jr. wrote about those who are eternally married and are worthy of the Celestial Kingdom. Doctrine & Covenants 132:20 "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them." This is perfectly consistent with the Bible. Psalm 82:6 (AKJV) "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" The Bible says we are God's children. Joseph Smith, Jr. did not say we will become Gods but used the word "gods." The next time you meet the missionaries ask them to show you that in the quad! May God bless you and keep you well!
In Christ Alone: The complete doctrine/scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Standard Works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which contains the Authorized King James Version of the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. The King Follett Discourse (Sermon) is not found there but D&C 132:20 describes the status of those who enter into the covenant of Eternal Marriage and live worthy of exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom. D&C 132:20 “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.” www.BibleGateway.com lists approximately 60 English Versions including the Authorized King James Version. The English Versions and LDS scripture recognize Deity By capitalizing the First letter of the name (God, Jesus Christ, Holy Ghost (Spirit), Comforter, etc.).
Sean, you need to make sure that the people in the interview have good Internet connections, and a good mics before you put them on. It’s on you to ensure that these discussions are both audible and visible.
Numbers23:19KJV"God is not a man that he should lie;neither the son of man,that he should repent..." Thus if ones God is now or was ever a man he is not JEHOVAH.
Wouldnt a human being assuming a God- like identity on any level be guilty of the original sin of adam in the garden? Didnt they get duped into eating that fruit in order to become like God ? A horrible sin of pride ? And isnt that the first sin ever ? I believe that would be up to God Himself to provide any man with that status and would be an abominable sin for any man to take any physical or spiritual steps to enact that on their own. Jesus wants us to have the mindset of an innocent child when we pass into His kingdom. The Orthodox Catholics have that very same notion. Have a good day anyone who reads my 2 cents 💙🙏🏻💙
It seems to me that Joseph Smith was the L Ron Hubbard of the 1800s because both taught outrageous things, including that 'ye shall be as gods' which was Satan's original lie. NO, YOU SHALL NOT BE A GOD. THERE IS ONE GOD.
I love watching Sean have conversations with people of other faiths because he is truly listening and seeking to understand the other person’s point of view as well as share his. I would have loved to seen Scott given space to share freely about his beliefs. Eric seemed focus on sharing what he knows about the LSD church. Can we have another video with just Sean and Scott discussing this topic?
I don't understand about the emphasis on whether people are good or bad. EVERYBODY has "fallen short of the glory of God" and "only God is good". God's point is that NOONE can be acceptable before Him unless we repent of trying to find our own way, and choose to submit ourselves to His higher way. It is only by humbling ourselves and giving up all understandings, logic, lusts, control, hopes, experience etc to God, that we can get a clean heart, able to understand God's wisdom in the Scriptures. These are just the arguments of men, and fruitless.
I agreed with the first half of your comment. However, when we submit to God we do not throw away our logic or experience. I’m not sure what you mean by that? This response sounds very typical of someone who isn’t interested in the truth. Are you a member of the Mormon church? Maybe I misunderstand your meaning.
@@emilyp3150 I am not Mormon. The reason I wrote the second half is because it's the part that most of the body of Christ is ignoring. Jesus only did and said what the Father told Him to do and say. This did not take away from His experience. It allowed Him to be fruitful in all He did and said. No "dead works". We are meant to follow in His footsteps, dying to self-will, and walking in holiness, led by His Spirit. Verses to read concerning this "death to self" include; Revelation 12:11 They overcame him (the accuser) by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony; (which was) they didn't love their lives so much as to shrink from death. John 12:24 "I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies it stays by itself alone. But if it does, it bears much fruit" Roman's 6:11-13" Count ourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus "...Do not offer the parts of your body to sin...,but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from DEATH to life... " Romans6:5-8"If we have been united with Him like this in HIS DEATH, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection. 6 for we know that our OLD SELF WAS CRUCIFIED with Him so that the body of sin might be done away with... 7because anyone WHO HAS DIED has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we DIED with Christ we believe that we will also live with Him". Roman's 8:13"For if you live according to the sinful nature you will DIE; but if by the Spirit you PUT TO DEATH the misdeeds of the body, you will live because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God ". I could go on. This is what God meant when He spoke of "the message of the Cross", picking up our cross and following Jesus, and being "born again, of the Spirit". Any gospel that doesn't teach the message of the Cross is a false gospel, and COUNTERFEIT!
@@emilyp3150 God's wisdom is higher than ours. That's why we need to humble yourselves, learn of Him, and "die to self". All else is "filthy rags"(Isaiah 64:6) "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away" God will not accept people who "continue on in sin" (Hebrews 10:26-30) The only way to "be holy as I (God) am holy", is to remain in Christ, changed by His blood, and dead to self, led of the Spirit!!!
@@suzannegriffiths4795 ok, I wasn’t sure if in your first comment, you were backing up the LDS view of how to find truth which is to ignore everything in the Bible and “follow the prophet.” I understand now, thanks for clarifying.
@@emilyp3150 👍I found another scripture that you might like too; "Those who want to make a good impression outwardly... do this to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ...that they may boast about your flesh. 14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world...what counts is a new creation".(Galatians 6:7-16) Bless you! 🌻
Scott has clearly shown that mormons do not have a biblical view of the God of the bible, irrespective of interpretation, they neither know who the God of the bible is or how Holy He is , or the condition of the human position. It seems everyone wants a piece of the Biblical Christian Christ but not the whole counsel, only those scriptures or attributes that will suit their own idolised man made religion.
Mormonism has an entirely different emphasis. No matter what they say, it is church and self-centered rather than Christ-centered. And we can’t be saved or grow spiritually by focusing on the leaders and trappings of an institution and our own works. There is no significant or consistent worship of God there.
There are so many scriptures of the Bible that state exactly why Mormonism is not true scripture. Deuteronomy 18:20 -22. The test of a prophet. Who fails the test 100% of the time. Look at smith’s claims. Also Mormon doctrine about becoming gods themselves also goes against the first commandment of God. They say that the Bible is misinterpreted. So they are saying that God is wrong in that statement. Another thing is that Jesus is according to the Bible is the Creator of everything. But Mormonism teaches that Jesus was himself a created being. Mormons are very nice people for the most part. But very mislead.
I am curious to learn about Mormonism, but I think you needed to find a more knowledgeable and outspoken person to represent his faith. This one seems to only get a few slow, quiet words out at a time.
I don’t want to come off as anti Mormon but I feel like Scott was trying to give off similarities that just aren’t true when it comes to the LDS faith. He says at 21:37 that lds believe that God, Jesus, Holy Spirit are one god. Lds believe all three will have resurrected bodies. Also at 25:40 he says that “we worship Christ”. I’ve spoken to a lot of Mormons living in Utah and it’s pretty clear they don’t worship Jesus. They don’t believe he’s God so why would they? They worship one god and that god the father. Never have they worshiped Jesus Christ. Also, how can jesus be a god if he was never married? That’s a pretty clear prerequisite for deification. It’s so offensive to God to think there were more Gods worthy of worship. Great conversation.
My first thoughts are: Mormonism is Methodism gone bad by espousing freemasonry and gnosticism. It's scripture BoM does contain Biblical truths, and so these can have a beneficial influence on LDS people. Just a pity that is outweighed by the later doctrinal speculations, not to mention moral failures, of Joseph an Brigham etc.
@@anselman3156 And do you know from a primary source that this happened, or is it just what you have heard? Because hearsay is a beast, and to my knowledge no such thing took place. There was polygamy and spiritual sealings to Joseph Smith for the intention of tying people to a prophet after they died, but to say either of these things is 'Taking other men's wives' is factually inaccurate. I could be wrong, but I'd be interested to hear your source.
@@OntheOtherHandVideos Were married women sealed to Joseph while their husbands were alive? That is what I have heard, I think from LDS people themselves online. If that did not happen I would be pleased to know. If it did happen, I see that as a form of infidelity .Coveting another man's wife is equivalent to adultery in God's eyes. It has been reported that Joseph did it while a husband was away on mission. You might know whether that is accurate or not. Also, Jesus Christ confirmed the true law of marriage is monogamy. The BoM condemns polygamy.
@@OntheOtherHandVideos "There is some, but not as much, evidence that Smith consummated the marriages to plural wives who already possessed husbands" Brigham Young Pioneer Prophet by John G. Turner (Belknap Harvard).
If Scott believes in his faith, he shouldn't be timid. He needs to shout it to all. He is on the defensive. Why? Is he embarassed to proclaim his faith. Mormon's come in first place when it comes to Choirs.
I believe that the essential difference that sets apart a follower of Jesus from anyone else is the authority and power of the Word of God. How does LDS address the inevitable contradictions between KJV and their other 3 literary works?
According to the Bible, Jesus was born in Bethlehem. LDS says their Jesus was born in Jerusalem. Jesus of Nazareth (where his home was) said that many would come in His name claiming to be The Christ. The Jesus of the LDS is one of those many other Jesus' that the true Jesus spoke of. The LDS Jesus is not the same as the Jesus of the Bible. We are Christians because we believe in our Jesus,accordint to the Bible and i guess the lds could say they are Christians in the sense that they believe a Christ, thought not Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus of Nazareth said "I am the way, the truth and the life. NO man comes to the father, but through me." No other Jesus will do. “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” Proverbs 14:12
mark Farm Kid: Luke 2:11 (AKJV) "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord." Was Nazareth the city of David? Matthew 2:1 "Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judæa in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. 5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judæa: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel." It is located five miles south of Jerusalem.
Adam, ESSENACE equals nature ontology, being. HOW one exists. We are a human being, a granite stone is a rock being, Lassie is a dog being, YHWH is a God being.
Tonya Brown: Genesis 3:4 (AKJV) "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Satan didn't lie except that he said, "Ye shall not surely die." He didn't say they would become Gods. He said they would become, "as gods knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:22 ¶ "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Perhaps you should study the Bible more!
@@AString95: Well, it doesn't say "God" or "Gods" in that scripture of the Authorized (King James) Version does it. It says "gods." The King James Versions always capitalize the first letter of a deity (examples are God, Father, Savior, Comforter, and Holy Ghost). Check it out at www.biblegateway.com.
@@AString95 minor point to quibble over. The scriptures David quoted would still point to Satan's statement regarding becoming "as God" to being somewhat truthful since God confirmed the same thing in the later verse.
@Tonya Brown _was_ Satan telling the truth there? Remember, in order to be a deceiver, Satan doesn't _have to_ lie. He can just as easily use pieces of truth in order to manipulate. To answer your question, I suggest that Mormons believe that Satan was appealing to a truthful concept in his efforts to manipulate.
If mornons keeps comparing God with human’s nature. They won’t understand that God is above us! God is not human ! They Lord Jesus said it! John 4:23-24 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” Luke 24:39 1 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me to have.” God is Spirit! Jesus BECAME FLESH , humbling him self to be less that the Father in his position of God in the Throne ! Jesus became a human likeness for love!! Philippians 2:7-9 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very natureof a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death even death on a cross! 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name. No one have seen the Father and no body will! Is Jesus who took a body like humans to make him known! Through the Lord we will be able to see the Father that’s why Jesus said my Father and I are one! ◄ John 6:46 ► No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. John 14:9 9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.(A) How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
"Say not thou, He has caused me to err: For He hath no need of the sinful man." Ecclesiasticus 15:12 Although not inspired, the Apocrypha is still more worthwhile than anything cobbled together or plagiarized by Joseph Smith. Who, need I remind you, was not only a son of Adam, but a false prophet and prolifically false teacher, who led thousands of men and women into embracing a lie with eternal consequences. "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 Peter 2:1 Jesus was and is perfect because he was the incarnate of the Living God. He didn't need to ascend to higher plain of existence and certainly doesn't share his glory with any other gods. "I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." Isaiah 42:8 To say that Jesus needed to be interpreted or refracted through the lens of any sinful man-let alone a man or men who were much worse in terms of sin than their contemporaries, who were not, at the very least, false prophets presuming to speak in the name of God-is blasphemous.
As looking at it from outside the box, I think the protestant and mormon are both right, if you look at a human person,there's a spirit, there's a soul, and there's a heart, 3 things that makes a person, so God has the same characteristics, Joseph Smith wrote there one God, but when he had his first vision he saw 2 personage, holy ghost was not there,maybe because he couldn't see him. In New testament Jesus prayed to his father, so as a God he can separate himself, when ever he wants, and God would represent, the spirit Jesus would represent the heart,and holy ghost would be the soul. That's the way I put the puzzle. In the 1880s mormon belief did brake away from the protestants. Just my own thoughts. My own analysis.
And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. 50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. 52:50 min mark thru 53:30
Tertulian introduced the concept of trinity in his Latin writing almost 200 years after the death of Christ. St. Stephen was Martyred while having a vision of the sky opening and seeing God the father and Jesus distinctly. See acts 7:55 Based on that scriptural account and how late the concept of trinity was formed, Being a trinitarian should not be the qualifier for whether someone is a Christian
Woah! We don’t believe that God is one being? Yes, that is the definition of the Trinity. There is one being of God that is shared by three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I’m going to assume that he said that in error, but that is sadly a horrible slip up to make when there could be LDS believers watching and being misunderstood as to what God’s being is.
Mormons believe that those who claim to be Christians are not followers of Jesus, and that salvation is only found in the Mormon church. I dont see how Mormons can be Christians if they believe that. Also their understanding of God is simply wrong. They believe that man can become God (and its God with a capital G), and that God the Father was at one time in the distant past a human. And that Jesus and Satan are brothers. And that all humans exist spiritually before they are physically born and become human beings. And so it goes on...
P C 1: There is no Mormon Church and never has been. We are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There are other denominations that came from the Latter Day Saints movement also. I suggest you research those on Wikipedia. You should know a little something about a subject before you comment on it on a public forum.
@@dleoburns I noticed you didnt negate the main points I made regarding Mormon teaching, so I assume you agree. As for the Mormon church, ironically Wikipedia which you recommend states it is known informally as the LDS church or Mormon church.
@@PC-vg8vn: "As for the Mormon church, ironically Wikipedia which you recommend states it is known informally as the LDS church or Mormon church." So, could the members of the Community of Christ (originally Restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, The Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite), The Church of Jesus Christ with Elijah Message, etc. [Wikipedia/Latter Day Saint movement/Denominations] Our church name was given by revelation on April 26, 1838. Doctrine & Covenants 115:4 "For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." It wasn't the Mormon or LDS Church at all. "Mormons believe that those who claim to be Christians are not followers of Jesus, and that salvation is only found in the Mormon church." Doctrine & Covenants 137:7 "Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; 8 Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom; 9 For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts." "They believe that man can become God (and its God with a capital G), and that God the Father was at one time in the distant past a human." False! Doctrine & Covenants 132:20 "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them." This is what we teach about those who enter into eternal marriage and are worthy of the Celestial Kingdom. This revelation was from Joseph Smith, Jr. Pearl of Great Price/Articles of Faith #1:1 "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." We believe God the Father is eternal as stated. "And that Jesus and Satan are brothers." No, we do not believe that the Virgin Mary was Satan's mother. We do believe that God the Eternal Father is the Father of our spirits! Hebrews 12:9 "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" Are you saying that the Apostle Paul was wrong on this doctrine?
@@dleoburns If you choose to believe the so-called 'revelations' to Jospeh Smith Jnr via 'Moroni' then that's up to you. Salvation: per Joseph F Smith, your 10th president "No salvation without Joseph Smith...No man can reject that testimony (of Joseph Smith) without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the Kingdom of God". Christians reject Joseph Smith's testimony. God: per Joseph Smith Jnr, your founder in his 'The King Follett Discourse' "I will go back to the beginning before the world was, to show you what kind of a being God is. God was once as we are now, and is an exalted man...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined that God was God from all eternity - I will refute that idea...God was once a man like us, yes God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth. Lorenzo Snow, your 5th president "As Man is, God was; As God is, Man may become". Mormon writer Milton Hunter concluded: "Mormon prophets have continuously taught that God the eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school earth similar to that through which we are passing. He became God - an exalted being." The above quotes are from Josh McDowell Snr's "Concise Guide to Today's Religions". Are you saying 2 of your presidents, a Mormon writer and your founder are all misrepresenting Mormon beliefs? Jesus/Satan: official Mormon publication Ensign "On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some-especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers….But as the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus was Lucifer’s older brother." Mormon teacher manual 'Gospel Principles' "We needed a Savior to pay for our sins and teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father. Our Father said, “Whom shall I send?” (Abraham 3:27). Two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said, “Here am I, send me” (Abraham 3:27)….Satan, who was called Lucifer, also came, saying, “Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor”.
P C1: “David Burns If you choose to believe the so-called 'revelations' to Jospeh Smith Jnr via 'Moroni' then that's up to you.” Yes, I believe the U.S. Constitution provides that right. “Salvation: per Joseph F Smith, your 10th president "No salvation without Joseph Smith...No man can reject that testimony (of Joseph Smith) without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the Kingdom of God". Prophets are mortal human beings who may have revelations from the Holy Ghost and personal opinions. The doctrine/scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is contained in the Standard Works of that Church. It is published in the Authorized King James Version of the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Pearl of Great Price. President Joseph F. Smith’s revelations are recorded in Doctrine & Covenants 138 which you may view at www.churchofjesuschrist.org under scriptures/Doctrine & Covenants. Your quotation is not found there and is not the doctrine/scripture of the Church. “Christians reject Joseph Smith's testimony. God: per Joseph Smith Jnr, your founder in his 'The King Follett Discourse' "I will go back to the beginning before the world was, to show you what kind of a being God is. God was once as we are now, and is an exalted man...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined that God was God from all eternity - I will refute that idea...God was once a man like us, yes God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth. Lorenzo Snow, your 5th president "As Man is, God was; As God is, Man may become". Mormon writer Milton Hunter concluded: "Mormon prophets have continuously taught that God the eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school earth similar to that through which we are passing. He became God - an exalted being." The King Follett Discourse (Sermon) was never accepted as doctrine/scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and it is not found in the Standard Works of the Church. Pearl of Great Price/Article of Faith 1: 1 “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” God the Father is eternal! “But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers…” Hebrews 12: 9 (AKJV) “Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?” Isaiah 14: 12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!” Colossians 1:13 “Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:” Both Satan and Jesus Christ are spirit children of our Heavenly Father!
When we look at the Bible, we see how to spot false prophets. When it comes to Joseph Smith and Muhammad, they both were polygamist, which is totally against the teachings of Jesus Christ. One man, one woman to become one flesh in Gods covenant.
Sean McDowell will discuss Mormonism (which he thinks is wrong) with a Mormon Joe who doesn’t seem to fully understand and represent Mormon doctrine, but he won’t discuss Progressive Christianity (which he thinks is wrong) with Randal Rauser who is a theologian and an expert in Progressive Christianity? Sad. Very sad.
Eric, the bottom line is that ultimately there is a divide. If not so, there would not have been a need for a restoration and God would have told Joseph to join your faith.
And also, one must keep in mind that just as there are areas that are gray for members of the Church of Jesus Christ...there are many mysteries that Evangelicals cannot answer. Also, there are doctrines that in both faiths that are meat, as opposed to milk. They are Calculus and hard to understand for people on addition and subtraction.
Hope Mormon go to the origin, read the Bible, the only divinely inspired scripture. Revelation 22:18-19 NIV 18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
C. S. Lewis wrote, "The load, or weight, or burden of my neighbor's glory should be laid daily on my back, a load so heavy that only humility can carry it, and the backs of the proud will be broken. It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you can talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship, or else an horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare. All day long we are, in some degree, helping each other to one or other of these destinations." ("The Weight of Glory", a sermon at the Church of St. Mary the Virgin, Oxford) Why did C. S. Lewis use the phrase "It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses," if he did not believe we could become like God (a title)? Just as my wife and I were born by loving parents (a title) who were one in spirit and flesh, we became like our parents one in spirit and flesh and had children of our own. We hope they, our children, also will desire to become like us - parents one in spirit and flesh someday with someone of the opposite sex and have children of their own and enjoy all that we enjoy someday. God (a title for a father and mother sealed to each other (Parents), being one in spirit and flesh) desires us Their children to become like Them as God one in spirit and flesh and have children and enjoy all that They enjoy someday.
Firstly, you are claiming God to be a title of the creator. In Christianity the term for God, comes from the title of "I am." YHWH. Only one person in History claimed to be "I am." And he was Jesus of Nazareth. So are Mormons claiming to be "I am?" Once you take into the biblical account for God's title in Hebrew, the flaws of Joseph Smiths teaching start to crumble.
Evidence of an apostasy because modern Christians no longer believe what apostolic and early church fathers believe and taught. 2 Peter 1:4 - "By which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire." Augustine of Hippo: "But He Himself that justifies also deifies, for by justifying He makes sons of God. 'For He has given them power to become the sons of God.' (John 1:12) If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods." (Expositions on the Psalms, Psalm 50, Sermon 2) Irenaeus of Lyons: "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." (Against Heresies, Book 5, Preface) Clement of Alexandria: "For if one knows himself, he will know God; and knowing God, he will be made like God, not by wearing a mask, but by the works which he performs for the glory of God." (Stromata, Book 2, Chapter 22) "The Word of God became man, that thou mayest learn from man how man may become God." (Exhortation to the Greeks, Chapter 1) Gregory of Nyssa: "Since the God who was manifested infused Himself into perishable humanity for this purpose, that by this communion with Deity mankind might at the same time be deified." (The Great Catechism, Chapter 37) Athanasius of Alexandria: "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." (On the Incarnation, Chapter 54, Section 3)
Eric assumes he understands the phrase "from everlasting to everlasting." He has never considered that it might not mean the definition he has placed on it. W/ regard to God progressing from being a man 1. Eric does not seem to understand the true nature of sin 2. I was not always dad...or other titles I have...it was a process. It does not take away from the fact that I am a dad.
@@dandelion1239 Not at all. It makes perfect sense actually and more importantly it does not make him any less God. Remember we don't even know what the title "God" entails.
@@cabarete2003 "cabarete2003 assumes he understands the phrase "from everlasting to everlasting." He has never considered that it might not mean the definition he has placed on it. W/ regard to God progressing from being a man 1. Cabarete2003 does not seem to understand the true nature of sin..." These are arbitrary assumptions and prejudically biased conjecture whether they are applied to you or Eric. Neither are mechanisms for finding truth.
@@rickdavis2235 True. Because even for members of the Church of Jesus Christ, what happened prior our being intelligences and formed as spirits things are not very clear. This sort of thing exists all through the scriptures. Why are there two accounts of the creation? Did Adam's seed marriage each other being siblings? Why were the Gospels written so many years after the events? And why do they differ on the most simply information like the genealogy of Christ? How do you get so many animals on an arch? And you missed the point... Eric ASSUMES he knows the definition of from everlasting to everlasting. It is what he says it is and that is it. I say, perhaps we don't understand the phrase. Perhaps God's understanding of time is completely different from ours. So, in fact, I DO NOT assume I know the the true definition of from everlasting to everlasting. Given other facts, I question the on the face definition...and that isn't the first time that happens in scripture. For example, Jesus commanded us to be perfect. A bit more understanding, teaches us that the original meaning is "complete" and not "without defect." Actually, I have a pretty good grasp on the true nature of sin. Sin is the codification in the commandments of behaviors that go against God and the universal law. For example, a man gives his son a car. Before handing him the keys, he explains that in order to keep the car in good order, he must check the tires and air pressure. He has to check the oil and change the oil. Following this counsel will keep the car in good order longer. He explains further that to stay safer in the car, the son must not speed, use his phone while driving or drive recklessly. And to be sure his son follows these things that will allow him to get more enjoyment out of the car...he says if I find that you do not take care of the car's maintenance or if you drive unsafely...I will take the car away. The breaking of the father's rules is sin. We are given commandments in order to learn to be more like God. Not simply so he can punish us for arbitrary things. Surprised you didn't know that.
It seems very reasonable to believe that we can become as our Heavenly Father. As a member of the Church...I have no issue with that. And those people that would "worship me" would be my children and they would "worship me" would be as my children "worship" me as their father and I my parents. No probelem with that.
@@cabarete2003 "perhaps if you do not see the whole plan." Mormonism is a scheme of salvation that amounts to the progressive deification of the believer. It's a man-centric religion that has nothing to do with God nor is it taught anywhere in the Bible. Mormons don't have a relationship with Jesus. They have a relationship with a religion.
The objection many have to a group commandeering the term "Christian" is that it throws a lot...A LOT of people off the boat. A lot of people who disagree with those who feel they need to monopolize the term. Not to mention that you are saying a person who believes in Christ, has faith in Christ and seeks to follow him...is not a disciple of Christ...aka a Christian. AND a group that cannot cite the authority by which they may reject others from the doors of "Christianity." I mean, any Roman or Easter Ortho Catholic...not to mention other Christian sects of early origin....can easily make a superior claim to proper authority. For a Protestant to state that they have authority the Catholic church doesn't is like me say I am a woman...unless I have some basis in authority to say it other than just saying...well, the Bible. I suggest Protestants simply refer to themselves as Protestant Christians and others with their respective affiliation (i.e. Catholic Christian).
When you read all these comments there is not one single comment from latterday saints that isn't nice about the evangelical beliefs the greatest commandment is to love one another which religions comments were more Christlike that is a fruit of the true church
"Are Mormons polytheistic?" The Godhead are 3 separate beings. Heavenly Father is the being we worship. Jesus Christ (Jehova of the Old Testimony) has won our souls and we worship him as well. The Godhead is who we worship. Could there by inference be other gods? Yes. There are other dads on my street. They are not my kids' dads though.
cabarete2003 "I have no problem with that statement." Jesus Christ is YHWH, the eternal God that has existed from all eternity, and he is the creator of all things. Jesus is equal with the Father by his very nature, or essence, and that is at the heart of what every true Christian believes. Jesus says in John, chapter 8, verse 24, "unless that you believe that 'I am' (egō eimi in Koine Greek), you will die in your sins. Egõ eimi is a God statement, the same thing that YWHW told Moses in Exodus, chapter 3, verse 14, when God told Moses who to tell the Israelites regarding who had sent him, "This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I Am ('eh-yeh; in ancient Hebrew) has sent me to you.’”". I Am is who Moses told the Israelites had sent him and 'I Am' is YHWH, God's personal name. Elohim isn't God's name because elohim is plural for eloah. God told Moses in Exodus that YHWH was His personal name. Some versions use 'I Am' in place of YHWH but they are one and the same. I Am in the biblical context means 'to be,' or 'exist.' Jesus is YHWH, the eternal God in Isaiah 9:6-7. Isaiah is a monotheistic Jew who believes in one God. He's one of those Jews that woke up every morning and quoted the Shema and believes in only one God. This monotheistic Jew says there is a son coming, a child is going to be born. What kind of child is that? That's a human being like you and me and everyone else and Isaiah says his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God ('ēl gib-bō-wr in ancient Hebrew), Everlasting Father (not Heavenly Father but father of eternity). This Son that's coming is the Mighty One, he is the Eternal One and the government shall rest upon his shoulders, of the increase of his government and of peace, there will be no end. This Messiah who is coming to bring his rule, his reign, that kingdom of redemption--he is 'ēl gib-bō-wr. If we look just one chapter later in Isaiah, chapter 10, reading from verse 20 onward, it actually calls YHWH, 'ēl gib-bō-wr (Isaiah 10:21 Hebrew text). Yahweh is called 'ēl gib-bō-wr in Isaiah 10:21 yet one chapter previous to that in Isaiah 9:6-7, it says a son is coming, the child that is coming is 'ēl gib-bō-wr, the Mighty God. Yes Jesus is the eternal God that was promised in the very first book of the bible in Genesis 3:15 and prophesied all throughout the Old Testament by the prophets. Isaiah 9:6-7 KJV 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
@@rickdavis2235 So why the need for the titles father and son? The terms per se indicate a hierarchy in the relationship between the two. Why does Jesus consistently give praise and glory to this father if he is Heavenly Father? Why does Jesus call to his father while on the cross? Was he just leaving a voice mail for himself when he got to heaven? Why did this separate father have to raise Jesus from the dead? Galatians 1:1. And was Stephen seeing double? Acts 7:55-56 And let's not forget that Jesus, Jehovah of the OT, taught that he was our advocate with the Father. We having been separated from the Father's presence due to Adam's transgression. And Jesus was who we dealt with in the OT. And Jesus quite easily could speak the father's words as they are the same mind and Jesus serves his father. The trinity doctrine was merely a way to satisfy the Jewish christians of the day mixed with Greek philosophies.
Thank you all for being friendly and respectful one of our authorities said we need other Christian religions to do missionary work to bring people to christ because there is too must to do on our own before jesus comes we need to respect one another
They totally overlooked the fact that Christian denominations seem to disagree over what some would consider necessary doctrine. For example, if baptism is essential for salvation there are some Churches that do not baptise infants were some do. Instead they focus only on the Trinity. Then you have Calvinist vs Armenian, who differ over some major points of salvation. Eric, answer the question and stop constantly focusing on the Trinity!
They address differences in secondary issues between Christian denominations around 17:00. They keep going back to the trinity because the same terms (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) are used, but they are defined very differently in LDS doctrine than they are in the Bible - I was surprised to find out when I looked into it that it’s not the same God being worshipped at all. The biblical christian’s God is not a created being and has always existed as God, for example, and the LDS christian’s God is a created being and was a human before he achieved his godhood. This is not a secondary issue, but is essential because there is a big difference between the Creator and his creation. The way I think of it is, if I have a dear friend named Rose who is a human person, and I ignore her and spend all of my time bonding with a cat named Rose instead... can I credit myself with being a good friend to Rose the human? It’s not the best metaphor, maybe, but I hope that helps explain why they seem to keep harping on this one point. I pray that God would bless you and grant you wisdom.
The legal name is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” Mormon was a prophet who more than 1,000 years ago abridged the Book of Mormon. We also believe the Bible to be the word of God as long as it is translated correctly.
The current name of the church is the third name of the church since the restoration. 1st-The church of Christ 2nd- The church of latter day saints 3rd- The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Jesus was with God from the beginning...but Eric assumes that beginning is the absolute beginning of everything and not from the beginning of this great plan for us. I'm not saying that is the case, but that is certainly a possibility. We have to remember that in many cases Heavenly Father speaks to us as a father does to a child. When my daughter asked me what sex was at 8 years old...I didn't lay it all out for her. It wasn't the time and she was not of the understanding.
"Jesus was with God from the beginning...but Eric assumes that beginning is the absolute beginning of everything and not from the beginning of this great plan for us. " No sir. You assume a different beginning. God created everything, not just the things that help to make your case.
Those who are not of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but are of a splinter group or branch off what is widely considered the mainstream Chuch call themselves Latter-day Saints...There is no problems with that. If a Protestant were to say he was a Latter-day Saint....it'd be odd...but it is of no effect to a member of the Church.
Lds definitely say jesus was born in Bethlehem im lds and have recently been on lds holy land tour and went to Bethlehem please check lds podcasts as there are so many misunderstandings about Mormon church and a lot of mysteries are not fully revieled as yet
If Protestants are going to say that if it isn't in the scriptures it is incorrect...then there are a few things they have to explain i.e the Trinity, the Rapture, etc.)
It is a good thing that Scott did not answer the question on the Trinity...because I have never heard a Protestant/Catholic etc. claim that each is a separate God. When a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints states that...he is accused of polytheism.
"It is a good thing that Scott did not answer the question on the Trinity...because I have never heard a Protestant/Catholic etc. claim that each is a separate God. When a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints states that...he is accused of polytheism." 2 Nephi 31:21 21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST, which is ONE GOD, without end. Amen. Mormon 7:7 7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. 3 Nephi 11:27 27 And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.
@@rickdavis2235 Now you have revealed how little you know of our faith. They are one...in purpose. And keep in mind, we don't, any of us, fully understand what the term "God" incorporates. I think the term Godhead is closet we have to understanding the 3 members of that institution.
@@cabarete2003 How do you know how little I know about Mormonism? Are you all-knowing? Three pesons, not three gods. Your book of Mormon teaches the Trinity. It's the nutty prophet that changed that in his later years. Your religion is built on the story of a 15 year old boy who came 1800 years after Jesus and claimed to have had a vision from God the Father, who is unseeable because He is spirit and dwells in unapproachable light, and Jesus Christ, but didn't bother to write any of it down for 22 years. You believe that the true gospel wasn't preached for 1800 years. Hogwash! This boy, who walked with a limp due to medical problems, ran through the woods carrying gold plates that would have weighed over 200 pounds while being chased by men. Nobody ever saw the plates and when asked to produce them, he said the angel had taken them back to heaven because they were too precious to leave here on earth. Hogwash! He said that all the churches were corrupted, all who professed Christianity were corrupted and the word of God had been corrupted. He literally said God had lied and was unable to protect His word or His church. Hogwash! I know that I know your religion better than you do. How do I know? You're still a Mormon!
@@rickdavis2235 I am a member of The Church and I understand what is meant in those verses. You obviously don't. There was not trinity doctrine conceived until after the 2nd century to another point. You are trying to apply your errant beliefs onto the BofM. And you are saying that JS changed what he made up in the BofM? Why? To what end? Much easier to teach the trinity. And you believe in Noah's arch and worldwide flood, Moses parting the sea and Jesus resurrecting. Let me quote Rick Davis here "[w]hen you consider the one and only God that had existed eternally and the creator of everything that exists...[h]e should have no problem whatsoever manifesting Himself to a 14 year old boy in 1820 and calling him to restore the gospel. People with a slight limp can't run? Did you even research why he had the slight limp? Have you not read the official witness and non-official witness statements about seeing or touching the plates. How about you READ the book and then judge it. How about you listen to the amazing findings in the book that JS had no way of knowing about. I mean honestly, you are presented with a book claiming to be an additional witness of Jesus Christ and you turn your nose up at it without testing it and praying to God about it. SMH. HE never said that all churches were corrupted. That was the Lord Jesus Christ. I'd take that seriously. And obviously, if the doctrines of apostles had been corrupted, christianity and what christians believe is corrupted. It isn't the first time the church was taken from the earth and later restored. Also, the New Testament is replete with Paul and others having to correct the apostate ideas entering the church even then prior to the apostles' deaths. You like to cherry pick your facts to make your conclusions. Try breaking out of your Protestant bubble and look at things from all perspectives. I suggest you take a close look at early christianity and then take an honest look at The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (The only church that bears his name) before you come to any conclusion. Do you honestly believe that your pastor is going to give you an honest assessment of the Church?
Psalms83:18KJV"That men may know that thou,whose name ALONE is JEHOVAH,art the MOST HIGH over all the earth." Note please that there is but one named JEHOVAH. Note also that this one is the MOST HIGH. Thus if ones God is associated with two equals(e.g the trinitarian Jesus) he is not the Lord JEHOVAH.
"God" is not a name but a title. I have a name, but my kids call me "Dad." I am their dad. They have no other dad. I am a jealous dad. And when they grow older they can become "dad or mom"
God told Moses his title is, I am. You would not claim to be an "I am." Jesus claimed to be "I am," and the Pharisees wanted to kill him on the spot for saying it. When Mormons claim to be God are they claiming to be miniature YHWH?
@@jkinze No. We are not claiming to be God. Nevertheless, we are not alone in understanding that we are gods in embryo....even Christ himself John 10:34. It is actually one of the adversaries greatest successes was to convince man that he does NOT have divine potential. There is great power in the knowledge that we are not merely beings God wants to get to heaven for some reason, and the knowledge that God is a Heavenly Father seeking to bring to pass the progression of his children. There is great power in knowing what our true potential is. Moses 1:4 (Pearl of Great Price). Knowing that I am a son of God and have this inherited potential makes my journey on earth much easier. When things get tough, I remember what I am made of. Not understanding who we are gives Satan a great advantage over us.
Eric's point of historical use of 'Chrstian' dates to the opponents of Christianity not the founders. If you want to use 'Christian' go ahead. I have found it to be a bureaucratic tool to segregate and make light of others beliefs. I am a Member of Christs Restored Church that wants to be a follower of Christ and not a Christian. If you Christian's have a problem about it, take it up to Christ who preached to Samaritans.
If you ask God in prayer what he is like the holy spirit will testify it to your heart this is a heavenly way of learnig mysteries will only be revieled to us when we stop arguing
Not only is it biblical, apostolic and early church Fathers taught it. 2 Peter 1:4 - "By which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire." Augustine of Hippo: "But He Himself that justifies also deifies, for by justifying He makes sons of God. 'For He has given them power to become the sons of God.' (John 1:12) If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods." (Expositions on the Psalms, Psalm 50, Sermon 2) Irenaeus of Lyons: "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." (Against Heresies, Book 5, Preface) Clement of Alexandria: "For if one knows himself, he will know God; and knowing God, he will be made like God, not by wearing a mask, but by the works which he performs for the glory of God." (Stromata, Book 2, Chapter 22) "The Word of God became man, that thou mayest learn from man how man may become God." (Exhortation to the Greeks, Chapter 1) Gregory of Nyssa: "Since the God who was manifested infused Himself into perishable humanity for this purpose, that by this communion with Deity mankind might at the same time be deified." (The Great Catechism, Chapter 37) Athanasius of Alexandria: "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." (On the Incarnation, Chapter 54, Section 3)
I pray for the mormons. They’re woefully misled. Judge a tree by its fruit, look at the fruit of joseph smith. He was not a good man. My heart grieves for these people. I pray the Lord will bless them with the true knowledge of the truth, the way and the life that is Jesus. For me there is no skin colour nor culture, there is believer and non believer. And we as believers need to be loving, kind and gracious in how we deal with people and how we represent our Heavenly Father. Thank God and praise Jesus. God bless you all.
Sean, very nice job in demonstrating how to have a reasonable and respectful discussion about different worldviews. Kudos to Scott and Eric as well. Thank you!
Eric could be more gentle, but generally I agree
Respectfull if your keeping score at home Translated meaning weak and man pleasing to people with discernment.
I wish that Scott could have been more forthcoming about what the LDS doctrines really are, as taught by the leadership and believed by the members. But it seems that the attempt to “water down” some aspects of the LDS faith when talking to non-members continue to go strong.
I grew up LDS being taught clearly, that Heavenly Father was a man of flesh and bones, who was once a mortal man, who went through the same steps of obedience to his own god, who needed a savior himself and who, by his own works of righteousness, earned his own exaltation meaning, earned his own godhood. He sexually procreated with his celestial wife/ wives to give birth to our spirits,; he then sent us to this earth, and here the cycle began again, the making up of the next generation of gods.
All LDS men have as their ultimate goal, to become gods themselves, who will repeat this process: create new worlds and be worshipped as gods by the people in their planets, who will pray to them and call them their “heavenly father”.
Once I began studying the Bible apart from Smith’s interpretations, I saw how eternally devastating such gravely erroneous doctrines truly are, as they could never be reconciled with what God has already revealed of Himself in both Testaments.
To the biblical God, Smith’s conception of deity is an extreme abomination, as he attempted to reduce the One who always was, is and forever will be God, into man, whom He created.
Amen! Wish more Mormons would be honest about everything you just posted. Many of the younger missionaries are actually clueless about those teachings. If you actually look back through Mormon history and read LDS publications like “The Seer”, “The Millenial Star”, the “Juvenile Instructor”, “Lectures of Faith”, the “Deseret News” as well as literature from the Journal of Discourses and History of the Church, and even personal Journals and books written by Mormon leadership/Prophets since the inception of the Church, it’s absolutely clear that the purpose of life was to become a God, have multiple wives, and physically impregnate them sending your spirit children down to earth to worship you as their God and Creator.
There is absolutely no ambiguity on this throughout the Mormon Church’s history. I had no idea about all this until I went on a 2 year quest of diving deep into actual Mormon literature. It’s only until the last few decades that the Mormon Church has been back peddling and saying, “Well, we aren’t really sure about those things, a lot of it is just speculation and kind of a mystery.”
I’m sorry but that is just ridiculous. If you look at what Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow and other presidents taught, it looks nothing like modern day Mormonism. Modern Mormonism is trying to blend into Christianity and sweep its original heretical teachings under the rug.
@@MapleBoarder78 Absolutely.
Having been raised LDS in Brazil, I had no access to all the material you just mentioned in your comment.
It was only after my LDS mission, and after learning English and getting access to them, that I also found out about how much the modern church leadership had suppressed from the regular membership about early LDS history and teachings.
A lot of money has been spent by the church in PR and ads to make it look as mainstream as possible. But we will keep on speaking out and hopefully, point the way to the Cross to anyone who is as sincere in their belief of J. Smith as we used to be. We hope and wholeheartedly pray for family members and the LDS whom we have never met, to come to Christ: not the other Jesus preached by Joseph but to the biblical Jesus.
@@FromJosephtoJesus I’m so glad you found your way out! ❤️ My wife’s friend is from Brazil as well and became Mormon after two young missionaries knocked on her door and convinced her Mormonism was true. She was raised Catholic and didn’t know much, so she was easily swayed by the overly friendly and upbeat demeanor of the missionaries. We pray for her and her family. 🙏🏼
We had actually intended to cover more of these points, but ran short just on what we discussed. I’m at @ptspentax on Twitter if you want to talk more. If you talk to me on UA-cam it’s a 99% chance you’ll be talking to my teenage son who’s always commenting on Star Wars and Lego videos.
@@proudtoshootpentax Hello, Scott!
Thank you for accepting to be in the conversation with Sean and Eric! That was a good thing to do.
I only wish that the top leadership in the church would also begin to send their General Authorities to some of these online platforms, in order to represent their teachings in an official capacity. I see that the members who do so, either regular members or LDS scholars, are always careful to use the disclaimer that they are not representing the church, only themselves, and in that manner, there is never real accountability for any statement, only an individual’s given “opinions”.
After the recording yesterday, do you still feel like Eric misrepresented LDS church teachings? I think he was actually spot on, specially in regards to the doctrines Smith taught about the nature of God, the Father and of Jesus. Eric represented it quite accurately.
Oh, what a bummer that you are only on Twitter. I deleted my account there last year. Not my favorite medium.
Blessings to you!
FYI- I’m subscribed and have all notifications set- yet I’m only seeing this now. Wow. Would’ve loved to be in the livestream chat. 💪🏽
Glad you found it now!
Scott, you present a gentle and no condescending man, very kind and patient. May the relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ be an ever filling grace upon grace...the truth the way and the life.
As a sinner saved and reborn through Christ"s Blood, .the holy Spirit continually reveals the fullness of the Father through Jesus Christ. May your humble openness to knowing more lead you in Wisdom
A different god, a different jesus, a different gospel, a different holy book. Not the same!
3 different Gods who share the same substance
Yeah, Joseph Smith made it clear that he thought Christianity was totally corrupted, and that God supposedly called him to restore the true church. Therefore, he had to make his teachings wildly unorthodoxed, which is why they're called a cult today.
And this push to seem Christian is PR because people now have easy access to information about the golden tablets and book of Abraham and their cult label, which makes it very hard to recruit.
We believe the Father has a glorified and perfected body of flesh and bones the son also. The Holy Ghost is a personage of Sprit; if it was not so He could not dwell within us.
A message from a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Not the same sects, but we are very much the same religion. The interpretation of Jesus, god, and the Holy Ghost is different, but we are very much Christian.
@@rncondieJohn 4.24 God is 4:30 Spirit, amd they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and Truth. ( Jesus words)
How or why any sane person would believe Joseph Smith is way beyond me. It's something I've never been able to figure out.
Agreed! See the book "Mormon Fraud".
It's fairly simple, really. Take the proposition "Joseph Smith is a prophet of God" and evaluate that. The most common method and easiest to execute, uses the "Book of Mormon" which Joseph Smith allegedly wrote/translated.
So the "test" then, is to take a copy of the Book of Mormon and read it. I'd suggest prayerfully doing so, as well, but I don't know if it is required. At the end of the Book of Mormon is a verse that says for anyone who receives these things to ask God if they are true. So they do that.
The people who believe Joe Smith was a prophet likely have done this test and recieved, what they believe is, a confirmation from the Holy Spirit that these things are true.
Perfect, Voro. Read it, pray, recieve a witness, then bear ones' torrid testimony
1)They teach their children.
2) Converts buy into the “feelings as a barometer for truth” lie. They can and do get converted to the missionaries, and the fellowshipping of the ward and become solid in their new convictions, comparing the new church to all the negative experiences they’ve had with other churches/groups etc.
Maybe this is over simplified but hope it helps.
You believe Moses, don't you?
So disappointed at the sound quality of this interview....really wanted to watch, but the breaking up of the sound constantly and the difference in volume, made it impossible. 😣
I was a Mormon for many, many years and there’s so much more that should’ve been discussed, but I understand that there’s a time crunch. I appreciated this discussion and wished more people would have hard talks like this. Kudos to both of them.
Christianity....do you do apologetics for these ppl?
@@KM-zn3lx which people are you referring to?
@@KM-zn3lx if you’re insinuating for Mormons, absolutely not. Mormons hijack my scriptures and make them have alternate meanings. They’re heretics.
@@ChristianityRecap 3 different Gods who share the same substance
I am just so blown away how respectful they are with eachother 🥺❤️
Blown away no. Lulled into sleep yes. I guess you never read about how respectfull Jesus was when he called the religious leaders white washed tombs.
I wish the audio was better. I kept getting skips in the audio & couldn't hear Scott well.
I'm near 66 yes. Old and remember meeting Mormons 30+ years ago and they then made clear to me, when I ask if they were Christians, they said no, they were Mormons. I know that has changed today. But you can't be a counterfeit when your not trying to mix into the original.
Such a great discussion. Something I’ve noticed about Muslim faith and the Mormon faith is that they rely on the testimony of someone other than the testimony of scripture. Mohammad is the voice that directed the Muslim faith and Joseph Smith is the voice that speaks for God.
The interesting and beautiful reality of the Bible is that many voices were given to express one central truth of the consistency of those books written that reveals Truth and I’m so thankful for that truth who is a person and that person loves me and died for me so that I can be in relationship with Him!
The Bible is only a small portion of what was written that was sifted by the Catholic church who composed the Bible. There were 12 apostles why only 4 of them aloud into the Bible? It's like watching half of a movie and ten people all having 10 different versions of what was missing in the other missing half. Thus, no unity of faith can possibly exist with the Bible alone. The Catholic political state devided Christian's forever by compiling the Bible half way. I feel you've been deceived by men.
Julie...also RCC does in that they give Pope much power!
@@KM-zn3lx yeah rome is bad.
Eric Johnson’s viewpoint on Mormonism podcast is AWESOME!!! I’m an exmo in Utah (born and raised generational) and now that I’m out AND saved, I’m amazed at how Bible and Christian scholars, pastors, and apologists can speak with the true authority, which is a real irony because Mormons claim to have all that priesthood authority but simply are not supported by the spirit of God! It’s a beautiful thing truly!!!!
There are no biblical references that being saved means you have it made. Every one is saved by resurrection alone. You want much more than this according to Paul who saw 3 levels of heaven not just one. I feel you've only been tricked to an easier path that will not guarantee you what you think.
@@paulgregersen3570incorrect. I assume you’ll cite James 2 to back up your “easier path” claim to which we’d say READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER. Saved by grace through faith ALONE.
@@ChristianityRecap Oh no, far better than that. We have a young man getting a book of doctrine from God himself from the ground and translating it in the Bible. Also the exact spot in the Rockies pinpointed in America where the church is today found right in your Bible. Even the year 1830 in a biblical timeline reaching that date 7 times where God's kingdom is restored. You will soon see that you never knew your Bible fully. Link UTube video titled (!Book of Abraham part 7) link UTube my name to get there
Come out!
@@paulgregersen3570 you’re referring to a young man who was a known con artist, pedophile and liar. If God were going to choose a prophet for a “restored gospel”, don’t you think he’d pick someone with higher character? Your “prophet” fails the rest of a prophet as well, so while you argue in the affirmative for Mormonism being the only way, you should pick up a bible and learn the real gospel friend.
Only 13 minutes in, but the minute you argue that Jesus has provided for your salvation through the restored gospel and the ordinances provided through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints you have made the Church your saviour and its members co-saviours. You have stripped the cross and the ahed blood of Jesus Christ of its power to save. You have deny that there is only one mediator between God and man and that "it is finished."
Well said!
Im afraid Mr Adams seems to be very hesitant in saying what the actual teachings of the Mormon 'church' are. He seems to be very careful as to what he is prepared to admit publicly.
Have you seen FAIR, the organization that is apologetics for the Church of Jesus Christ? They host frank talks on the most controversial aspects of their faith - I don't know of a member of the Church who 'is hesitant in saying the actual teachings of the actual Church'.
I would love to see another discussion like this between these two!
How can I email Eric Johnson? I was mormon 35 years and then agnostic and new age and lost and praise God, he brought me to Christianity in May 2021 and I'm born again. But, I was taught it was mormon or the devil church like it says in the book of mormon. And, I didn't know I could have Christ without mormonism. So, I agree with him. About seeking and finding these ex mormons who are bitter and feel deceived and now they are agnostic, most my friends, and I'm in southern Utah and want to work with Eric.
Scott seems like: "this is what I believe and I respect what you believe"
Eric seems like: "No, this is what you believe and either a I'm right and you're wrong or you're right and I'm wrong, we can't see it any other way."
Basically, when Scott talks, this seems like a conversation. When Eric talks, it seems like a debate. Personally, I'm confused as to which end this video sought for.
I guess you need to take off your luke warm grey glasses off to see better.
@@tralfazruk1 okay. I've seen more videos from this channel and will accept this merely as a conversation for the viewers to see different perspectives. Not sure if Eric saw it that way, but no big. Do you have a different interpretation?
The thing with labeling yourself something and wanting to be included with other people labeling themselves that same thing is you have to believe the same core things. I think it was said well that Mormons use the same terms as we do, but what they believe that term means is different. So we do not follow the same doctrine from the Bible and we certainly do not follow Joseph Smith. So a Mormon labeling themselves a Christian just doesn't work. You can label yourself whatever you want, but that label is either truthful or it isn't. It's not a maybe or agree to disagree. It is a yes or a no. I can label myself as black or as royalty, but I have no African or royal lineage in me so that label isn't true. When your core beliefs are different you are not of the same religion, and our core beliefs are not the same. I say this also applies to progressive christianity. The doctrines and the core beliefs of progressive christianity are different therefore they are not the same religion.
The whole time I wished that Scott would have been asked about his definition of Jesus being his savior and Lord. It sounds the same as historical Christianity, but I would have like to hear his perspective on that and it was not questioned.
As a former LDS and now a true follower of biblical Jesus and the holy trinity, I can now call myself a true biblical Christian. The Mormon church is built on deception and the fear of losing your family in the afterlife. I pray for my family and friends who are still on the path to damnation.
*My father, grandfather, and great grandfather always stated that they would become Gods. That is a factual truth for lds men. Scott is flying low on the truth.
Dee Es: Can you show a scripture from the Bible or any other scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that says mortals will become Gods? Should not be a problem for a former member. So, I patiently wait for your reply.!
@@dleoburns I'm not completely familiar with everything in the LDS "quad," but, I can tell you that (when asked directly) the missionaries I've taken lessons with, affirm that this is the belief.
Mrs. Nobody: I am not a young missionary. I am a 43-year member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The King Follett Sermon (Discourse) is not part of our doctrine/scripture. The following is what Joseph Smith, Jr. wrote about those who are eternally married and are worthy of the Celestial Kingdom. Doctrine & Covenants 132:20 "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them." This is perfectly consistent with the Bible. Psalm 82:6 (AKJV) "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" The Bible says we are God's children. Joseph Smith, Jr. did not say we will become Gods but used the word "gods."
The next time you meet the missionaries ask them to show you that in the quad!
May God bless you and keep you well!
@@dleoburns The King Follett Discourse, Joseph Smith
In Christ Alone: The complete doctrine/scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Standard Works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which contains the Authorized King James Version of the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. The King Follett Discourse (Sermon) is not found there but D&C 132:20 describes the status of those who enter into the covenant of Eternal Marriage and live worthy of exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom. D&C 132:20 “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.”
www.BibleGateway.com lists approximately 60 English Versions including the Authorized King James Version. The English Versions and LDS scripture recognize Deity By capitalizing the First letter of the name (God, Jesus Christ, Holy Ghost (Spirit), Comforter, etc.).
Sean, you need to make sure that the people in the interview have good Internet connections, and a good mics before you put them on. It’s on you to ensure that these discussions are both audible and visible.
I agree. This was two years ago and I’ve come a long ways!
Numbers23:19KJV"God is not a man that he should lie;neither the son of man,that he should repent..." Thus if ones God is now or was ever a man he is not JEHOVAH.
You know there is no J or J sound in Hebrew?
Or Greek, is there a point to this little diversion or just making small talk?
Wouldnt a human being assuming a God- like identity on any level be guilty of the original sin of adam in the garden? Didnt they get duped into eating that fruit in order to become like God ? A horrible sin of pride ? And isnt that the first sin ever ? I believe that would be up to God Himself to provide any man with that status and would be an abominable sin for any man to take any physical or spiritual steps to enact that on their own. Jesus wants us to have the mindset of an innocent child when we pass into His kingdom. The Orthodox Catholics have that very same notion. Have a good day anyone who reads my 2 cents 💙🙏🏻💙
It seems to me that Joseph Smith was the L Ron Hubbard of the 1800s because both taught outrageous things, including that 'ye shall be as gods' which was Satan's original lie. NO, YOU SHALL NOT BE A GOD. THERE IS ONE GOD.
I love watching Sean have conversations with people of other faiths because he is truly listening and seeking to understand the other person’s point of view as well as share his. I would have loved to seen Scott given space to share freely about his beliefs. Eric seemed focus on sharing what he knows about the LSD church. Can we have another video with just Sean and Scott discussing this topic?
"LSD church"
Grow up.
@@nickholderman4891 pretty sure it was an accidental typo sir
I have researched some aspects of LDS, specifically The Book of Mormon. The account of what he experienced is one nutty eloborate story. Bizarre.
I don't understand about the emphasis on whether people are good or bad. EVERYBODY has "fallen short of the glory of God" and "only God is good". God's point is that NOONE can be acceptable before Him unless we repent of trying to find our own way, and choose to submit ourselves to His higher way. It is only by humbling ourselves and giving up all understandings, logic, lusts, control, hopes, experience etc to God, that we can get a clean heart, able to understand God's wisdom in the Scriptures.
These are just the arguments of men, and fruitless.
I agreed with the first half of your comment. However, when we submit to God we do not throw away our logic or experience. I’m not sure what you mean by that? This response sounds very typical of someone who isn’t interested in the truth. Are you a member of the Mormon church?
Maybe I misunderstand your meaning.
@@emilyp3150 I am not Mormon. The reason I wrote the second half is because it's the part that most of the body of Christ is ignoring.
Jesus only did and said what the Father told Him to do and say. This did not take away from His experience. It allowed Him to be fruitful in all He did and said. No "dead works".
We are meant to follow in His footsteps, dying to self-will, and walking in holiness, led by His Spirit. Verses to read concerning this "death to self" include;
Revelation 12:11 They overcame him (the accuser) by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony; (which was) they didn't love their lives so much as to shrink from death.
John 12:24 "I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies it stays by itself alone. But if it does, it bears much fruit"
Roman's 6:11-13" Count ourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus "...Do not offer the parts of your body to sin...,but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from DEATH to life... "
Romans6:5-8"If we have been united with Him like this in HIS DEATH, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection.
6 for we know that our OLD SELF WAS CRUCIFIED with Him so that the body of sin might be done away with...
7because anyone WHO HAS DIED has been freed from sin.
8 Now if we DIED with Christ we believe that we will also live with Him".
Roman's 8:13"For if you live according to the sinful nature you will DIE; but if by the Spirit you PUT TO DEATH the misdeeds of the body, you will live because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God ".
I could go on. This is what God meant when He spoke of "the message of the Cross", picking up our cross and following Jesus, and being "born again, of the Spirit".
Any gospel that doesn't teach the message of the Cross is a false gospel, and COUNTERFEIT!
@@emilyp3150 God's wisdom is higher than ours. That's why we need to humble yourselves, learn of Him, and "die to self". All else is "filthy rags"(Isaiah 64:6) "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away"
God will not accept people who "continue on in sin" (Hebrews 10:26-30)
The only way to "be holy as I (God) am holy", is to remain in Christ, changed by His blood, and dead to self, led of the Spirit!!!
@@suzannegriffiths4795 ok, I wasn’t sure if in your first comment, you were backing up the LDS view of how to find truth which is to ignore everything in the Bible and “follow the prophet.” I understand now, thanks for clarifying.
@@emilyp3150 👍I found another scripture that you might like too;
"Those who want to make a good impression outwardly... do this to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ...that they may boast about your flesh.
14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world...what counts is a new creation".(Galatians 6:7-16)
Bless you! 🌻
Scott has clearly shown that mormons do not have a biblical view of the God of the bible, irrespective of interpretation, they neither know who the God of the bible is or how Holy He is , or the condition of the human position. It seems everyone wants a piece of the Biblical Christian Christ but not the whole counsel, only those scriptures or attributes that will suit their own idolised man made religion.
Mormonism has an entirely different emphasis. No matter what they say, it is church and self-centered rather than Christ-centered. And we can’t be saved or grow spiritually by focusing on the leaders and trappings of an institution and our own works. There is no significant or consistent worship of God there.
Good job Scott Adams. Very humble approach.
There are so many scriptures of the Bible that state exactly why Mormonism is not true scripture. Deuteronomy 18:20 -22. The test of a prophet. Who fails the test 100% of the time. Look at smith’s claims.
Also Mormon doctrine about becoming gods themselves also goes against the first commandment of God. They say that the Bible is misinterpreted. So they are saying that God is wrong in that statement.
Another thing is that Jesus is according to the Bible is the Creator of everything. But Mormonism teaches that Jesus was himself a created being. Mormons are very nice people for the most part. But very mislead.
If you truly come to Christ as a Mormon it is in spite of the church.
Again, a Mormon showing such humility...I appreciate these other 2 men weren't as condescending as some I've seen.
I am curious to learn about Mormonism, but I think you needed to find a more knowledgeable and outspoken person to represent his faith. This one seems to only get a few slow, quiet words out at a time.
I don’t want to come off as anti Mormon but I feel like Scott was trying to give off similarities that just aren’t true when it comes to the LDS faith. He says at 21:37 that lds believe that God, Jesus, Holy Spirit are one god. Lds believe all three will have resurrected bodies.
Also at 25:40 he says that “we worship Christ”. I’ve spoken to a lot of Mormons living in Utah and it’s pretty clear they don’t worship Jesus. They don’t believe he’s God so why would they? They worship one god and that god the father. Never have they worshiped Jesus Christ. Also, how can jesus be a god if he was never married? That’s a pretty clear prerequisite for deification. It’s so offensive to God to think there were more Gods worthy of worship. Great conversation.
Mormobs don't want you to know what they really believe until you devote yourself to their crap because they know from top up that they're liars.
Lord have mercy. Here come all of the “I appreciate the amount of grace and respect shown….” Comments.
17:19 Uh, yeah 😂 that is an enormous difference. That is what we believe. The Trinity
My first thoughts are: Mormonism is Methodism gone bad by espousing freemasonry and gnosticism. It's scripture BoM does contain Biblical truths, and so these can have a beneficial influence on LDS people. Just a pity that is outweighed by the later doctrinal speculations, not to mention moral failures, of Joseph an Brigham etc.
And what moral failures are you referring to?
@@OntheOtherHandVideos Taking other men's wives, for one.
@@anselman3156 And do you know from a primary source that this happened, or is it just what you have heard? Because hearsay is a beast, and to my knowledge no such thing took place. There was polygamy and spiritual sealings to Joseph Smith for the intention of tying people to a prophet after they died, but to say either of these things is 'Taking other men's wives' is factually inaccurate. I could be wrong, but I'd be interested to hear your source.
@@OntheOtherHandVideos Were married women sealed to Joseph while their husbands were alive? That is what I have heard, I think from LDS people themselves online. If that did not happen I would be pleased to know. If it did happen, I see that as a form of infidelity .Coveting another man's wife is equivalent to adultery in God's eyes. It has been reported that Joseph did it while a husband was away on mission. You might know whether that is accurate or not. Also, Jesus Christ confirmed the true law of marriage is monogamy. The BoM condemns polygamy.
@@OntheOtherHandVideos "There is some, but not as much, evidence that Smith consummated the marriages to plural wives who already possessed husbands" Brigham Young Pioneer Prophet by John G. Turner (Belknap Harvard).
Yeah. Mormonism had nothing to do with the Bible or Jesus Christ. Sincerely deluded.
If Scott believes in his faith, he shouldn't be timid. He needs to shout it to all. He is on the defensive. Why? Is he embarassed to proclaim his faith. Mormon's come in first place when it comes to Choirs.
If the plates weren’t gold then why did God keep the plates from Joseph until he was older so he wouldn’t be tempted by riches as taught??
I believe that the essential difference that sets apart a follower of Jesus from anyone else is the authority and power of the Word of God. How does LDS address the inevitable contradictions between KJV and their other 3 literary works?
He didn’t want to talk about the trinity because that right there exposes Mormons as NOT being Christian
According to the Bible, Jesus was born in Bethlehem. LDS says their Jesus was born in Jerusalem. Jesus of Nazareth (where his home was) said that many would come in His name claiming to be The Christ. The Jesus of the LDS is one of those many other Jesus' that the true Jesus spoke of. The LDS Jesus is not the same as the Jesus of the Bible. We are Christians because we believe in our Jesus,accordint to the Bible and i guess the lds could say they are Christians in the sense that they believe a Christ, thought not Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus of Nazareth said "I am the way, the truth and the life. NO man comes to the father, but through me." No other Jesus will do.
“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”
Proverbs 14:12
mark Farm Kid: Luke 2:11 (AKJV) "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord." Was Nazareth the city of David? Matthew 2:1 "Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judæa in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judæa: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel." It is located five miles south of Jerusalem.
I'm blown away how Scott is so unequip and unusually non-passionate.
I never realized how “new age” Mormonism is. Anything that remotely promotes “oneness” and being one’s own God… 😬 danger Will Robinson
Adam, ESSENACE equals nature ontology, being. HOW one exists. We are a human being, a granite stone is a rock being, Lassie is a dog being, YHWH is a God being.
Thank you so very much 😊!
Do Mormons think Satan was telling the truth in the garden when he said God knew we would become as God?
Tonya Brown: Genesis 3:4 (AKJV) "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Satan didn't lie except that he said, "Ye shall not surely die." He didn't say they would become Gods. He said they would become, "as gods knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:22 ¶ "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."
Perhaps you should study the Bible more!
@@dleoburns if you read the comment she says “become as God”. This does not have the same connotation as “become God”
@@AString95: Well, it doesn't say "God" or "Gods" in that scripture of the Authorized (King James) Version does it. It says "gods." The King James Versions always capitalize the first letter of a deity (examples are God, Father, Savior, Comforter, and Holy Ghost). Check it out at www.biblegateway.com.
@@AString95 minor point to quibble over. The scriptures David quoted would still point to Satan's statement regarding becoming "as God" to being somewhat truthful since God confirmed the same thing in the later verse.
@Tonya Brown _was_ Satan telling the truth there?
Remember, in order to be a deceiver, Satan doesn't _have to_ lie. He can just as easily use pieces of truth in order to manipulate.
To answer your question, I suggest that Mormons believe that Satan was appealing to a truthful concept in his efforts to manipulate.
Scott’s mic is way low.
yes pretty bad.
Let Us create man in Our image
Moses said it first...
If mornons keeps comparing God with human’s nature. They won’t understand that God is above us!
God is not human ! They Lord Jesus said it!
John 4:23-24
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
Luke 24:39
1
Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me to have.”
God is Spirit! Jesus BECAME FLESH , humbling him self to be less that the Father in his position of God in the Throne !
Jesus became a human likeness for love!!
Philippians 2:7-9
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very natureof a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name.
No one have seen the Father and no body will!
Is Jesus who took a body like humans to make him known! Through the Lord we will be able to see the Father that’s why Jesus said my Father and I are one!
◄ John 6:46 ►
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
John 14:9
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.(A) How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
53:08 I agree. You could both be wrong.
"Say not thou, He has caused me to err: For He hath no need of the sinful man."
Ecclesiasticus 15:12
Although not inspired, the Apocrypha is still more worthwhile than anything cobbled together or plagiarized by Joseph Smith. Who, need I remind you, was not only a son of Adam, but a false prophet and prolifically false teacher, who led thousands of men and women into embracing a lie with eternal consequences.
"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 2:1
Jesus was and is perfect because he was the incarnate of the Living God. He didn't need to ascend to higher plain of existence and certainly doesn't share his glory with any other gods.
"I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."
Isaiah 42:8
To say that Jesus needed to be interpreted or refracted through the lens of any sinful man-let alone a man or men who were much worse in terms of sin than their contemporaries, who were not, at the very least, false prophets presuming to speak in the name of God-is blasphemous.
As looking at it from outside the box, I think the protestant and mormon are both right, if you look at a human person,there's a spirit, there's a soul, and there's a heart, 3 things that makes a person, so God has the same characteristics, Joseph Smith wrote there one God, but when he had his first vision he saw 2 personage, holy ghost was not there,maybe because he couldn't see him. In New testament Jesus prayed to his father, so as a God he can separate himself, when ever he wants, and God would represent, the spirit Jesus would represent the heart,and holy ghost would be the soul. That's the way I put the puzzle. In the 1880s mormon belief did brake away from the protestants. Just my own thoughts. My own analysis.
And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
52:50 min mark thru 53:30
Tertulian introduced the concept of trinity in his Latin writing almost 200 years after the death of Christ. St. Stephen was Martyred while having a vision of the sky opening and seeing God the father and Jesus distinctly. See acts 7:55
Based on that scriptural account and how late the concept of trinity was formed, Being a trinitarian should not be the qualifier for whether someone is a Christian
Woah! We don’t believe that God is one being? Yes, that is the definition of the Trinity. There is one being of God that is shared by three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I’m going to assume that he said that in error, but that is sadly a horrible slip up to make when there could be LDS believers watching and being misunderstood as to what God’s being is.
Mormons believe that those who claim to be Christians are not followers of Jesus, and that salvation is only found in the Mormon church. I dont see how Mormons can be Christians if they believe that. Also their understanding of God is simply wrong. They believe that man can become God (and its God with a capital G), and that God the Father was at one time in the distant past a human. And that Jesus and Satan are brothers. And that all humans exist spiritually before they are physically born and become human beings. And so it goes on...
P C 1: There is no Mormon Church and never has been. We are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There are other denominations that came from the Latter Day Saints movement also. I suggest you research those on Wikipedia. You should know a little something about a subject before you comment on it on a public forum.
@@dleoburns I noticed you didnt negate the main points I made regarding Mormon teaching, so I assume you agree. As for the Mormon church, ironically Wikipedia which you recommend states it is known informally as the LDS church or Mormon church.
@@PC-vg8vn: "As for the Mormon church, ironically Wikipedia which you recommend states it is known informally as the LDS church or Mormon church." So, could the members of the Community of Christ (originally Restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, The Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite), The Church of Jesus Christ with Elijah Message, etc. [Wikipedia/Latter Day Saint movement/Denominations] Our church name was given by revelation on April 26, 1838. Doctrine & Covenants 115:4 "For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." It wasn't the Mormon or LDS Church at all.
"Mormons believe that those who claim to be Christians are not followers of Jesus, and that salvation is only found in the Mormon church." Doctrine & Covenants 137:7 "Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; 8 Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom; 9 For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts."
"They believe that man can become God (and its God with a capital G), and that God the Father was at one time in the distant past a human." False! Doctrine & Covenants 132:20 "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them." This is what we teach about those who enter into eternal marriage and are worthy of the Celestial Kingdom. This revelation was from Joseph Smith, Jr. Pearl of Great Price/Articles of Faith #1:1 "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." We believe God the Father is eternal as stated.
"And that Jesus and Satan are brothers." No, we do not believe that the Virgin Mary was Satan's mother. We do believe that God the Eternal Father is the Father of our spirits! Hebrews 12:9 "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" Are you saying that the Apostle Paul was wrong on this doctrine?
@@dleoburns If you choose to believe the so-called 'revelations' to Jospeh Smith Jnr via 'Moroni' then that's up to you.
Salvation: per Joseph F Smith, your 10th president "No salvation without Joseph Smith...No man can reject that testimony (of Joseph Smith) without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the Kingdom of God". Christians reject Joseph Smith's testimony.
God: per Joseph Smith Jnr, your founder in his 'The King Follett Discourse' "I will go back to the beginning before the world was, to show you what kind of a being God is. God was once as we are now, and is an exalted man...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined that God was God from all eternity - I will refute that idea...God was once a man like us, yes God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth.
Lorenzo Snow, your 5th president "As Man is, God was; As God is, Man may become".
Mormon writer Milton Hunter concluded: "Mormon prophets have continuously taught that God the eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school earth similar to that through which we are passing. He became God - an exalted being."
The above quotes are from Josh McDowell Snr's "Concise Guide to Today's Religions".
Are you saying 2 of your presidents, a Mormon writer and your founder are all misrepresenting Mormon beliefs?
Jesus/Satan: official Mormon publication Ensign "On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some-especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers….But as the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus was Lucifer’s older brother."
Mormon teacher manual 'Gospel Principles' "We needed a Savior to pay for our sins and teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father. Our Father said, “Whom shall I send?” (Abraham 3:27). Two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said, “Here am I, send me” (Abraham 3:27)….Satan, who was called Lucifer, also came, saying, “Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor”.
P C1: “David Burns If you choose to believe the so-called 'revelations' to Jospeh Smith Jnr via 'Moroni' then that's up to you.” Yes, I believe the U.S. Constitution provides that right.
“Salvation: per Joseph F Smith, your 10th president "No salvation without Joseph Smith...No man can reject that testimony (of Joseph Smith) without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the Kingdom of God". Prophets are mortal human beings who may have revelations from the Holy Ghost and personal opinions. The doctrine/scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is contained in the Standard Works of that Church. It is published in the Authorized King James Version of the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Pearl of Great Price. President Joseph F. Smith’s revelations are recorded in Doctrine & Covenants 138 which you may view at www.churchofjesuschrist.org under scriptures/Doctrine & Covenants. Your quotation is not found there and is not the doctrine/scripture of the Church.
“Christians reject Joseph Smith's testimony. God: per Joseph Smith Jnr, your founder in his 'The King Follett Discourse' "I will go back to the beginning before the world was, to show you what kind of a being God is. God was once as we are now, and is an exalted man...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined that God was God from all eternity - I will refute that idea...God was once a man like us, yes God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth. Lorenzo Snow, your 5th president "As Man is, God was; As God is, Man may become". Mormon writer Milton Hunter concluded: "Mormon prophets have continuously taught that God the eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school earth similar to that through which we are passing. He became God - an exalted being." The King Follett Discourse (Sermon) was never accepted as doctrine/scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and it is not found in the Standard Works of the Church. Pearl of Great Price/Article of Faith 1: 1 “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” God the Father is eternal!
“But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers…” Hebrews 12: 9 (AKJV) “Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?” Isaiah 14: 12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!” Colossians 1:13 “Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:” Both Satan and Jesus Christ are spirit children of our Heavenly Father!
When we look at the Bible, we see how to spot false prophets. When it comes to Joseph Smith and Muhammad, they both were polygamist, which is totally against the teachings of Jesus Christ. One man, one woman to become one flesh in Gods covenant.
Sean McDowell will discuss Mormonism (which he thinks is wrong) with a Mormon Joe who doesn’t seem to fully understand and represent Mormon doctrine, but he won’t discuss Progressive Christianity (which he thinks is wrong) with Randal Rauser who is a theologian and an expert in Progressive Christianity? Sad. Very sad.
I never had the test but knew I had the sickness. My blood was tested and it was true! So bad analogy. Pcr tests are bad!
Thanks to whomever liked this!
Eric, the bottom line is that ultimately there is a divide. If not so, there would not have been a need for a restoration and God would have told Joseph to join your faith.
Joseph smith worshipped satan. Research proves that. Question things.
And also, one must keep in mind that just as there are areas that are gray for members of the Church of Jesus Christ...there are many mysteries that Evangelicals cannot answer. Also, there are doctrines that in both faiths that are meat, as opposed to milk. They are Calculus and hard to understand for people on addition and subtraction.
@Surely Serious and we usually don't understand the milk properly.
Hope Mormon go to the origin, read the Bible, the only divinely inspired scripture.
Revelation 22:18-19 NIV
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
Faith without works is dead.
Eric and Scott need better internet
Oh my...what an explanation of the Trinity. That made no sense. It is like he is trying to make one dizzy and then saying "see? It's super clear."
C. S. Lewis wrote, "The load, or weight, or burden of my neighbor's glory should be laid daily on my back, a load so heavy that only humility can carry it, and the backs of the proud will be broken. It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you can talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship, or else an horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare. All day long we are, in some degree, helping each other to one or other of these destinations." ("The Weight of Glory", a sermon at the Church of St. Mary the Virgin, Oxford)
Why did C. S. Lewis use the phrase "It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses," if he did not believe we could become like God (a title)? Just as my wife and I were born by loving parents (a title) who were one in spirit and flesh, we became like our parents one in spirit and flesh and had children of our own. We hope they, our children, also will desire to become like us - parents one in spirit and flesh someday with someone of the opposite sex and have children of their own and enjoy all that we enjoy someday. God (a title for a father and mother sealed to each other (Parents), being one in spirit and flesh) desires us Their children to become like Them as God one in spirit and flesh and have children and enjoy all that They enjoy someday.
Firstly, you are claiming God to be a title of the creator. In Christianity the term for God, comes from the title of "I am." YHWH.
Only one person in History claimed to be "I am." And he was Jesus of Nazareth.
So are Mormons claiming to be "I am?" Once you take into the biblical account for God's title in Hebrew, the flaws of Joseph Smiths teaching start to crumble.
You are definately sharing an LDS doctrine.
The definition of Christian was hammered out 1700 years ago at the Council of Nicaea with a little thing called the Nicaean Creed.
Evidence of an apostasy because modern Christians no longer believe what apostolic and early church fathers believe and taught.
2 Peter 1:4 - "By which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire."
Augustine of Hippo:
"But He Himself that justifies also deifies, for by justifying He makes sons of God. 'For He has given them power to become the sons of God.' (John 1:12) If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods." (Expositions on the Psalms, Psalm 50, Sermon 2)
Irenaeus of Lyons:
"For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." (Against Heresies, Book 5, Preface)
Clement of Alexandria:
"For if one knows himself, he will know God; and knowing God, he will be made like God, not by wearing a mask, but by the works which he performs for the glory of God." (Stromata, Book 2, Chapter 22)
"The Word of God became man, that thou mayest learn from man how man may become God." (Exhortation to the Greeks, Chapter 1)
Gregory of Nyssa:
"Since the God who was manifested infused Himself into perishable humanity for this purpose, that by this communion with Deity mankind might at the same time be deified." (The Great Catechism, Chapter 37)
Athanasius of Alexandria:
"For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." (On the Incarnation, Chapter 54, Section 3)
Eric assumes he understands the phrase "from everlasting to everlasting." He has never considered that it might not mean the definition he has placed on it. W/ regard to God progressing from being a man 1. Eric does not seem to understand the true nature of sin 2. I was not always dad...or other titles I have...it was a process. It does not take away from the fact that I am a dad.
God did not progress. It’s sad you could even think that way. You’ve been blinded.
@@dandelion1239 Not at all. It makes perfect sense actually and more importantly it does not make him any less God. Remember we don't even know what the title "God" entails.
@@cabarete2003
"cabarete2003 assumes he understands the phrase "from everlasting to everlasting." He has never considered that it might not mean the definition he has placed on it. W/ regard to God progressing from being a man 1. Cabarete2003 does not seem to understand the true nature of sin..."
These are arbitrary assumptions and prejudically biased conjecture whether they are applied to you or Eric. Neither are mechanisms for finding truth.
@@rickdavis2235 True. Because even for members of the Church of Jesus Christ, what happened prior our being intelligences and formed as spirits things are not very clear. This sort of thing exists all through the scriptures. Why are there two accounts of the creation? Did Adam's seed marriage each other being siblings? Why were the Gospels written so many years after the events? And why do they differ on the most simply information like the genealogy of Christ? How do you get so many animals on an arch?
And you missed the point... Eric ASSUMES he knows the definition of from everlasting to everlasting. It is what he says it is and that is it. I say, perhaps we don't understand the phrase. Perhaps God's understanding of time is completely different from ours. So, in fact, I DO NOT assume I know the the true definition of from everlasting to everlasting. Given other facts, I question the on the face definition...and that isn't the first time that happens in scripture. For example, Jesus commanded us to be perfect. A bit more understanding, teaches us that the original meaning is "complete" and not "without defect."
Actually, I have a pretty good grasp on the true nature of sin. Sin is the codification in the commandments of behaviors that go against God and the universal law. For example, a man gives his son a car. Before handing him the keys, he explains that in order to keep the car in good order, he must check the tires and air pressure. He has to check the oil and change the oil. Following this counsel will keep the car in good order longer. He explains further that to stay safer in the car, the son must not speed, use his phone while driving or drive recklessly. And to be sure his son follows these things that will allow him to get more enjoyment out of the car...he says if I find that you do not take care of the car's maintenance or if you drive unsafely...I will take the car away. The breaking of the father's rules is sin.
We are given commandments in order to learn to be more like God. Not simply so he can punish us for arbitrary things. Surprised you didn't know that.
It seems very reasonable to believe that we can become as our Heavenly Father. As a member of the Church...I have no issue with that. And those people that would "worship me" would be my children and they would "worship me" would be as my children "worship" me as their father and I my parents. No probelem with that.
How sad.
@@dandelion1239 Not at all...its called family.
@@cabarete2003
"Not at all...its called family."
Actually, it's called blasphemy.
@@rickdavis2235 perhaps if you do not see the whole plan.
@@cabarete2003
"perhaps if you do not see the whole plan."
Mormonism is a scheme of salvation that amounts to the progressive deification of the believer. It's a man-centric religion that has nothing to do with God nor is it taught anywhere in the Bible. Mormons don't have a relationship with Jesus. They have a relationship with a religion.
Mormonism is to Christianity as Christianity is to Judaism.
The objection many have to a group commandeering the term "Christian" is that it throws a lot...A LOT of people off the boat. A lot of people who disagree with those who feel they need to monopolize the term. Not to mention that you are saying a person who believes in Christ, has faith in Christ and seeks to follow him...is not a disciple of Christ...aka a Christian. AND a group that cannot cite the authority by which they may reject others from the doors of "Christianity." I mean, any Roman or Easter Ortho Catholic...not to mention other Christian sects of early origin....can easily make a superior claim to proper authority. For a Protestant to state that they have authority the Catholic church doesn't is like me say I am a woman...unless I have some basis in authority to say it other than just saying...well, the Bible. I suggest Protestants simply refer to themselves as Protestant Christians and others with their respective affiliation (i.e. Catholic Christian).
I’ll save everyone an hour of their lives; No, they are not.
When you read all these comments there is not one single comment from latterday saints that isn't nice about the evangelical beliefs the greatest commandment is to love one another which religions comments were more Christlike that is a fruit of the true church
"Are Mormons polytheistic?" The Godhead are 3 separate beings. Heavenly Father is the being we worship. Jesus Christ (Jehova of the Old Testimony) has won our souls and we worship him as well. The Godhead is who we worship. Could there by inference be other gods? Yes. There are other dads on my street. They are not my kids' dads though.
Jehovah is the Latinized version of YWHW, or Yahweh, the eternal God who has always existed.
@@rickdavis2235 I have no problem with that statement.
cabarete2003
"I have no problem with that statement."
Jesus Christ is YHWH, the eternal God that has existed from all eternity, and he is the creator of all things. Jesus is equal with the Father by his very nature, or essence, and that is at the heart of what every true Christian believes.
Jesus says in John, chapter 8, verse 24, "unless that you believe that 'I am' (egō eimi in Koine Greek), you will die in your sins. Egõ eimi is a God statement, the same thing that YWHW told Moses in Exodus, chapter 3, verse 14, when God told Moses who to tell the Israelites regarding who had sent him, "This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I Am ('eh-yeh; in ancient Hebrew) has sent me to you.’”". I Am is who Moses told the Israelites had sent him and 'I Am' is YHWH, God's personal name. Elohim isn't God's name because elohim is plural for eloah. God told Moses in Exodus that YHWH was His personal name. Some versions use 'I Am' in place of YHWH but they are one and the same. I Am in the biblical context means 'to be,' or 'exist.'
Jesus is YHWH, the eternal God in Isaiah 9:6-7. Isaiah is a monotheistic Jew who believes in one God. He's one of those Jews that woke up every morning and quoted the Shema and believes in only one God.
This monotheistic Jew says there is a son coming, a child is going to be born. What kind of child is that? That's a human being like you and me and everyone else and Isaiah says his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God ('ēl gib-bō-wr in ancient Hebrew), Everlasting Father (not Heavenly Father but father of eternity). This Son that's coming is the Mighty One, he is the Eternal One and the government shall rest upon his shoulders, of the increase of his government and of peace, there will be no end.
This Messiah who is coming to bring his rule, his reign, that kingdom of redemption--he is 'ēl gib-bō-wr. If we look just one chapter later in Isaiah, chapter 10, reading from verse 20 onward, it actually calls YHWH, 'ēl gib-bō-wr (Isaiah 10:21 Hebrew text).
Yahweh is called 'ēl gib-bō-wr in Isaiah 10:21 yet one chapter previous to that in Isaiah 9:6-7, it says a son is coming, the child that is coming is 'ēl gib-bō-wr, the Mighty God. Yes Jesus is the eternal God that was promised in the very first book of the bible in Genesis 3:15 and prophesied all throughout the Old Testament by the prophets.
Isaiah 9:6-7 KJV
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
@@rickdavis2235 So why the need for the titles father and son? The terms per se indicate a hierarchy in the relationship between the two. Why does Jesus consistently give praise and glory to this father if he is Heavenly Father? Why does Jesus call to his father while on the cross? Was he just leaving a voice mail for himself when he got to heaven? Why did this separate father have to raise Jesus from the dead? Galatians 1:1. And was Stephen seeing double? Acts 7:55-56
And let's not forget that Jesus, Jehovah of the OT, taught that he was our advocate with the Father. We having been separated from the Father's presence due to Adam's transgression. And Jesus was who we dealt with in the OT. And Jesus quite easily could speak the father's words as they are the same mind and Jesus serves his father.
The trinity doctrine was merely a way to satisfy the Jewish christians of the day mixed with Greek philosophies.
@@rickdavis2235 There is no Latin involved.
Thank you all for being friendly and respectful one of our authorities said we need other Christian religions to do missionary work to bring people to christ because there is too must to do on our own before jesus comes we need to respect one another
Why put us in nuclear families only to have a communal family in heaven? It takes away from the idea that there is a plan to all this.
They totally overlooked the fact that Christian denominations seem to disagree over what some would consider necessary doctrine. For example, if baptism is essential for salvation there are some Churches that do not baptise infants were some do. Instead they focus only on the Trinity. Then you have Calvinist vs Armenian, who differ over some major points of salvation. Eric, answer the question and stop constantly focusing on the Trinity!
They address differences in secondary issues between Christian denominations around 17:00.
They keep going back to the trinity because the same terms (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) are used, but they are defined very differently in LDS doctrine than they are in the Bible - I was surprised to find out when I looked into it that it’s not the same God being worshipped at all.
The biblical christian’s God is not a created being and has always existed as God, for example, and the LDS christian’s God is a created being and was a human before he achieved his godhood.
This is not a secondary issue, but is essential because there is a big difference between the Creator and his creation.
The way I think of it is, if I have a dear friend named Rose who is a human person, and I ignore her and spend all of my time bonding with a cat named Rose instead... can I credit myself with being a good friend to Rose the human?
It’s not the best metaphor, maybe, but I hope that helps explain why they seem to keep harping on this one point.
I pray that God would bless you and grant you wisdom.
The legal name is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”
Mormon was a prophet who more than 1,000 years ago abridged the Book of Mormon.
We also believe the Bible to be the word of God as long as it is translated correctly.
The current name of the church is the third name of the church since the restoration.
1st-The church of Christ
2nd- The church of latter day saints
3rd- The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Jesus was with God from the beginning...but Eric assumes that beginning is the absolute beginning of everything and not from the beginning of this great plan for us. I'm not saying that is the case, but that is certainly a possibility. We have to remember that in many cases Heavenly Father speaks to us as a father does to a child. When my daughter asked me what sex was at 8 years old...I didn't lay it all out for her. It wasn't the time and she was not of the understanding.
"Jesus was with God from the beginning...but Eric assumes that beginning is the absolute beginning of everything and not from the beginning of this great plan for us. "
No sir. You assume a different beginning. God created everything, not just the things that help to make your case.
Those who are not of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but are of a splinter group or branch off what is widely considered the mainstream Chuch call themselves Latter-day Saints...There is no problems with that. If a Protestant were to say he was a Latter-day Saint....it'd be odd...but it is of no effect to a member of the Church.
Lds definitely say jesus was born in Bethlehem im lds and have recently been on lds holy land tour and went to Bethlehem please check lds podcasts as there are so many misunderstandings about Mormon church and a lot of mysteries are not fully revieled as yet
If Protestants are going to say that if it isn't in the scriptures it is incorrect...then there are a few things they have to explain i.e the Trinity, the Rapture, etc.)
It is a good thing that Scott did not answer the question on the Trinity...because I have never heard a Protestant/Catholic etc. claim that each is a separate God. When a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints states that...he is accused of polytheism.
"It is a good thing that Scott did not answer the question on the Trinity...because I have never heard a Protestant/Catholic etc. claim that each is a separate God. When a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints states that...he is accused of polytheism."
2 Nephi 31:21
21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST, which is ONE GOD, without end. Amen.
Mormon 7:7
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.
3 Nephi 11:27
27 And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.
@@rickdavis2235 Now you have revealed how little you know of our faith. They are one...in purpose. And keep in mind, we don't, any of us, fully understand what the term "God" incorporates. I think the term Godhead is closet we have to understanding the 3 members of that institution.
@@cabarete2003
How do you know how little I know about Mormonism? Are you all-knowing?
Three pesons, not three gods. Your book of Mormon teaches the Trinity. It's the nutty prophet that changed that in his later years.
Your religion is built on the story of a 15 year old boy who came 1800 years after Jesus and claimed to have had a vision from God the Father, who is unseeable because He is spirit and dwells in unapproachable light, and Jesus Christ, but didn't bother to write any of it down for 22 years. You believe that the true gospel wasn't preached for 1800 years.
Hogwash!
This boy, who walked with a limp due to medical problems, ran through the woods carrying gold plates that would have weighed over 200 pounds while being chased by men. Nobody ever saw the plates and when asked to produce them, he said the angel had taken them back to heaven because they were too precious to leave here on earth.
Hogwash!
He said that all the churches were corrupted, all who professed Christianity were corrupted and the word of God had been corrupted. He literally said God had lied and was unable to protect His word or His church.
Hogwash!
I know that I know your religion better than you do. How do I know? You're still a Mormon!
@@rickdavis2235 I am a member of The Church and I understand what is meant in those verses. You obviously don't. There was not trinity doctrine conceived until after the 2nd century to another point. You are trying to apply your errant beliefs onto the BofM. And you are saying that JS changed what he made up in the BofM? Why? To what end? Much easier to teach the trinity.
And you believe in Noah's arch and worldwide flood, Moses parting the sea and Jesus resurrecting. Let me quote Rick Davis here "[w]hen you consider the one and only God that had existed eternally and the creator of everything that exists...[h]e should have no problem whatsoever manifesting Himself to a 14 year old boy in 1820 and calling him to restore the gospel.
People with a slight limp can't run? Did you even research why he had the slight limp? Have you not read the official witness and non-official witness statements about seeing or touching the plates. How about you READ the book and then judge it. How about you listen to the amazing findings in the book that JS had no way of knowing about. I mean honestly, you are presented with a book claiming to be an additional witness of Jesus Christ and you turn your nose up at it without testing it and praying to God about it. SMH.
HE never said that all churches were corrupted. That was the Lord Jesus Christ. I'd take that seriously. And obviously, if the doctrines of apostles had been corrupted, christianity and what christians believe is corrupted. It isn't the first time the church was taken from the earth and later restored. Also, the New Testament is replete with Paul and others having to correct the apostate ideas entering the church even then prior to the apostles' deaths. You like to cherry pick your facts to make your conclusions. Try breaking out of your Protestant bubble and look at things from all perspectives.
I suggest you take a close look at early christianity and then take an honest look at The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (The only church that bears his name) before you come to any conclusion. Do you honestly believe that your pastor is going to give you an honest assessment of the Church?
@@rickdavis2235 Oh and the plates were not 200 pounds...no man could not lift that.
You
If you say the plates were too heavy with God all things are possible he healed the blind turned water into wine etc
Even the very elect will fall
Psalms83:18KJV"That men may know that thou,whose name ALONE is JEHOVAH,art the MOST HIGH over all the earth." Note please that there is but one named JEHOVAH. Note also that this one is the MOST HIGH. Thus if ones God is associated with two equals(e.g the trinitarian Jesus) he is not the Lord JEHOVAH.
"God" is not a name but a title. I have a name, but my kids call me "Dad." I am their dad. They have no other dad. I am a jealous dad. And when they grow older they can become "dad or mom"
God told Moses his title is, I am. You would not claim to be an "I am." Jesus claimed to be "I am," and the Pharisees wanted to kill him on the spot for saying it.
When Mormons claim to be God are they claiming to be miniature YHWH?
@@jkinze No. We are not claiming to be God. Nevertheless, we are not alone in understanding that we are gods in embryo....even Christ himself John 10:34. It is actually one of the adversaries greatest successes was to convince man that he does NOT have divine potential. There is great power in the knowledge that we are not merely beings God wants to get to heaven for some reason, and the knowledge that God is a Heavenly Father seeking to bring to pass the progression of his children. There is great power in knowing what our true potential is. Moses 1:4 (Pearl of Great Price). Knowing that I am a son of God and have this inherited potential makes my journey on earth much easier. When things get tough, I remember what I am made of. Not understanding who we are gives Satan a great advantage over us.
God works in mysterious ways
Sorry you don’t quite get it, but ask someone who does
Eric's point of historical use of 'Chrstian' dates to the opponents of Christianity not the founders. If you want to use 'Christian' go ahead. I have found it to be a bureaucratic tool to segregate and make light of others beliefs. I am a Member of Christs Restored Church that wants to be a follower of Christ and not a Christian. If you Christian's have a problem about it, take it up to Christ who preached to Samaritans.
If you ask God in prayer what he is like the holy spirit will testify it to your heart this is a heavenly way of learnig mysteries will only be revieled to us when we stop arguing
Mormons plan on becoming "gods" that's the motivation, Its completely non-Biblical.
Not only is it biblical, apostolic and early church Fathers taught it.
2 Peter 1:4 - "By which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire."
Augustine of Hippo:
"But He Himself that justifies also deifies, for by justifying He makes sons of God. 'For He has given them power to become the sons of God.' (John 1:12) If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods." (Expositions on the Psalms, Psalm 50, Sermon 2)
Irenaeus of Lyons:
"For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." (Against Heresies, Book 5, Preface)
Clement of Alexandria:
"For if one knows himself, he will know God; and knowing God, he will be made like God, not by wearing a mask, but by the works which he performs for the glory of God." (Stromata, Book 2, Chapter 22)
"The Word of God became man, that thou mayest learn from man how man may become God." (Exhortation to the Greeks, Chapter 1)
Gregory of Nyssa:
"Since the God who was manifested infused Himself into perishable humanity for this purpose, that by this communion with Deity mankind might at the same time be deified." (The Great Catechism, Chapter 37)
Athanasius of Alexandria:
"For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." (On the Incarnation, Chapter 54, Section 3)
gentlemen - 4 WORDS 4 U - CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS/RICHARD DAWKINS.
I pray for the mormons. They’re woefully misled. Judge a tree by its fruit, look at the fruit of joseph smith. He was not a good man. My heart grieves for these people. I pray the Lord will bless them with the true knowledge of the truth, the way and the life that is Jesus. For me there is no skin colour nor culture, there is believer and non believer. And we as believers need to be loving, kind and gracious in how we deal with people and how we represent our Heavenly Father. Thank God and praise Jesus. God bless you all.