KSAN to KLAS with PilotEdge ATC
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- This is the return flight to Las Vegas International from San Diego, again with live ATC provided by the PilotEdge Service. You will see that this flight does not exactly go as I would hope.
This video just popped up in my suggestions and then I hear myself on PilotEdge LOL
IKR....
Did my first pilotedge flight 2 days back: 737-800 IFR from KLAX to KDEN (first mistake)
Screwed up clearance (second mistake)
Screwed up the initial part of the SID (third mistake)
Rest of the flight went ok
Screwed up the STAR, leading to vectors to final (fourth mistake)
Hard landing causing a sim crash (fith mistake)
Could've gone better but I really enjoyed it and hope I didn't piss off the controllers too much, going to go into some training to get all the ATC parts 100% sorted and try again (with a smaller aircraft)
I was the air traffic controller in your video. I just found this! Great job! I retired from PilotEdge after working there 3 years to start a flight school. I miss it!
Not many show their mistakes so I applaud you for that! Very very good sim setup. I’m about to jump into the online world. Keep up the good work mate.
I must admit, I've never heard callouts that fast before. Obviously, this would've been disastrous in a real-world scenario, but this is why we have simulators! Take pride in how quickly you learned from your mistakes here. I wouldn't be too worried unless you did the same thing next time out. Fly safe!
Well said!
David, the vision about this camera is perfect in my opinion because we can follow your steps with the checklist!
Enjoyed your video, man oh man that is one cool fightdeck you have there mate !!!
What an amazing simulator and graphics. It looks amazing and appears to function amazingly well. Just a couple of observations if you care if not disregard. 1st:The rotation should be about 2-2.5 deg/sec at a constant rate. We critique rotations on every takeoff and it takes practice to make them well. Imagine your 737 is a 747 and it rotates just like one of those big airplanes starting at Vr, your 737 should come off around 7 deg nose up, if less you rotated too slow if higher you rotated too fast. (Replay and stop it when you brake ground and look at your pitch)
2nd: If you mess up the approach, go around, your fuel is free. It will make you a proficient pilot to perform a go-around, give it to the autopilot, re program things and come back try it again. Also, go to the FIX page on your FMC and place the arrival airport /10 for (10 nm). By this circle plan to be Flaps 5, 210 knots. From here configure the aircraft for landing. By 1000 AGL you should be final config, landing checklist complete and stable...pratice this every time you land. You will see that you will find yourself less and less behind...
Cool video, we learn something new every time we get out there!!
CFI/CFII/CFMEI/ATP 737/757/767/777/787
Great video! That is quite a sim, and I appreciate that you're on the path to learning all of the procedures.
The late rotation was already covered in another post. I would strongly encourage you to research how takeoff profiles are executed in transport category jets with regards to rotation speed, initial climb out to 1000' AGL, etc. There's a fairly consistent, specific schedule that is used.
Some radio and procedural tips to polish things up and increase efficiency:
1) remove "with you" from your vocabulary.
2) FAA phraseology permits group form for air carrier callsigns, so "American Five Five Two" should be grouped to "American Five Fifty Two" (notice that's how the controllers are addressing you most of the time when they call). EDIT: just noticed I posted this trip 10 months ago on this video, apologies :)
3) altimeters wouldn't be 'standard' until FL180. Below that, you'd use the current altitmeter.
4) When you checked in with center, you stated that you were "climbing via the SID." that is incorrect, you were given "climb and maintain 15,000" by Socal departure which means you're no longer climbing via the SID. That error took place before the one which you identified in post-production as the 'first learning point'. "Climb and maintain" cancels the vertical portion of the SID, regardless of whether the newly assigned altitude is below, matches, or exceeds the top altitude for the SID.
5) it's Socal departure, not San Diego Departure. This is listed in the airport communications block of any data source that shows the airport frequencies, such as skyvector.com, airnav.com, or on the SID itself which lists Socal Dep 119.60.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for sharing. I really enjoy watching your videos and I like how you admit to mistakes to better your skills. Keep it up.
Graham Crichton Thanks Graham.
Just another tip, i did this too try to get those flaps and speed where you want them for landing around 7-10 miles out instead of on short final. will help for a stabilized approach
Amazing video. You need a co pilot. I did crew at APT and having a qualified pilot helping on procedures makes it so much fun and easier.
Good call. Aircraft this size are not single pilot cerified. That is why I fly Aerobask XP11 Embraer Phenom 300 on VATSIM and PE with G1000 which is single pilot certified. He still did a decent job. Just flaired a bit late otherwise he could have saved the hard landing.
when you said a bad landing i thought balls of flames, thats better than my regular landing lol
Great video. That is a great sim you have there. Kudos for sharing your mistakes and lessons learned. Great way to help us all.
I would do anything for that sim lol! Great vid!
Thanks so much for posting this video! * subscribed *
Incredible footage, love your sim!
Great job. Every flight is a learning experience.
Glad to see you are still at it and I look forward
to flying with you when I get out to Ca. (If you remember me from previous convo) Lol
I used to "instruct" on a sim very similar to yours although yours has a few bells and whistles that mine did not. Essentially it was marketed to the public as "come and try to see if you can fly a 737". I was also a professional pilot but not on jets. It took me some time to come to grips with the sim but the hardest part was descent planning and slowing down. Eventually I came to realise that VNAV is not the most precise mode and not to rely on it after it left me hot and high a few times.
FLCHG is much more useful, especially in the early descent stage so that you come down quickly and can then slow the descent to get the speed back to 250 kts at 10,000'. After that I would use the Vertical Rate and ensure that the "green banana" was indicating the correct point to be at the required altitude. To stop the auto throttles from increasing the speed to over 250 kts I would have them either disconnected or set something like 210 kts. Essentially you want the thrust levers at idle. For the landing, set N1 to about 60% and then just throw flaps and gear against it. The speed will come back to near Vref without the need for much adjustment of the setting.
The virtual ATC sim people in the US are very very good. I used to participate in a virtual round the world flight called "World Flight". It runs 24 hours a day over a week and basically zig zags around the world. I did a couple of sectors "over" the US and was very impressed at the way the local ATC sim guys handled the flights.
To get comfortable in the sim I suggest manually flying it without FMC or autopilot. Get used to how it responds to power and how inertia affects it. Inertia was the single biggest issue general aviation pilots had in trying to cope with the sim. I also suggest that if you haven't already, try to get a copy of the Boeing pilots manual for the aircraft. There is a wealth of information contained in it and also the training manual - both are excellent.
Just come across this. Thanks for sharing your mistakes and insights - it helps us all improve! One thing I was taught is to have 'gates' which you pass at certain speeds and heights, I fly a 747 and mine are: 30miles - at or below 10,000ft and 250kts, 20 miles - 6000ft and Flaps 5, 10 miles 3000ft and flaps 10. This gives me a framework within which to form my approach. On a visual approach without a FD, the FPV button comes into its own. When on an ILS approach one day, switch on the FPV and see where it sits on the PFD. This is the FPV for a 3 degree approach - assuming the ILS you're flying is 3 degrees. This position will not change - regardless of your speed. A 3 degree slope is the same whether you're flying it at 160kts or 200kts - your angle of attack will be different but the FPV symbol will be in the same place. I find this visual cue helps immensely to reduce workload. Thanks again for your candid assessment - helps us all :-)
Thank you for all the great information
@@TemporarilyGrounded no worries, thanks for the great videos - I hasten to add that I only fly a _simulated_ 747, my previous message was a bit ambiguous...
Beautiful sim. Have only gotten through the clearance and push so far, but wanted to let you know that FAA phraseology uses 'group form' for air carrier callsigns. Hence, "American Five Fifty Two" rather than "American Five Five Two"
Thanks you and also thanks for the tip. Its tips like these that allow me to increase my knowledge and accuracy / realism of my simming experiance. Much appreciated!
"THAT'S WHY THERE ARE TWO PILOTS IN THE COCKPIT."
"You can always go around, if it don't look right comin' down"
Such a wonderful home simulator, congratulations sir! I had to look carefully just to notice you were in a simulator and not in a real cockpit :-)
This is great stuff. That's a beautiful set up.
Considering what you had to deal with I thought you handled it quite will.... great video I like your camera placement make for a good video.... thanks again for sharing. BTW can you give some background on your simulation setup it looks great.
GaryFly82Thanks. The next video I am working on will cover the construction and details on the current setup.
Sounds good!
lovely views of the canyon but ouch - I think I just head-butted the seat in front of me at touchdown !
You are a great man
Man, I would never leave that. So lucky!
SUBSCRIBED! so amazing channel, please upload more videos !!
look forward to the details of your setup. I want one !!!
This simulator had me fooled for a moment there I thought I was in a real plane, the only thing that gave it away was the fact that the guy isn't wearing a pilot's uniform! LOL
Actually, if you were paying attention, the first officer's yoke and the captain's yoke are not synchronized, which they of course ARE in a real 737! You will see that when the pilot turns his yoke, the first officer yoke doesn't move. This is because in his 'simulator', the two are not linked. That said, he has spent some serious coins on this setup, no doubt. I would estimate low six figure price point.
Any time you're given a climb instruction, you're no longer climbing via the SID. When the controller told you "climb and maintain 15,000"...that's when you're no longer climbing via the SID.
joe brennan Thanks
you should takeoff with more than just 1 notch of flaps, itll help you get off the ground at a lower speed and help your initial climb a lot more
There are a lot of airlines that use flaps 1 for departure. It all depends on SOP, runway length, take off weight etc.
Great video as always! You should use "ET" when timing your flight time, especially when doing flights over 1 hour long since the chronometer resets after 60 minutes. Also, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing ;)
Ground2Sky Productions thanks for the tip and the encouragement.
Regarding the check-in with vegas tower, "Las Vegas Tower, American Five Fifty Two, visual two six left" is all you need, really (and even the 'visual' is optional). The slow pacing of the transmission combined with the addition of "with you" and the "altitude" results in a radio call taking 3x longer than it otherwise needs to. In an environment where the controller is covering so many positions, it really adds up, so anything you can do to reduce the call times would be putting your best foot forward. :)
coma13794 Great tips! Thank you.
About how much did the simulator cost to set up like that?
Jermaine Smith a lot
I estimate 75k-100k easily
FAA/ATC now using RNDRZ# arrival from KSAN-KLAS. Much better arrival. Still using PADRZ# departure.
Very good videos. For an untrained pilot you are doing a great job so far.
I have been flying the 737 for years and still learn something every Time I fly
Awesome sim setup. Hoping mine looks as good when finished.
I would happily fly right seat with you anytime. Are you in the states or abroad?
drthndr911 Thank you. Yes I’m in California.
Temporarily Grounded my old stomping grounds. Recently moved to Oklahoma but return to Cali on business frequently.
Maybe fly with you sometime. Would love to see your sim up close for ideas on mine.
Keep up the good work!!!
drthndr911 absolutely! Let me know.
Is this ATC Pilot Edge air traffic control via Microsoft Flight Simulator X effectively " streaming"? If this is in fact streaming, is the Intel or new AMD cpu/s better?
as a rule of thumb on a 3 degree glide path we will lose about 300 feet of altitude per nautical mile of distance traveled moving forward on the approaches.... so if you do not receive the LOC.alizer or glide slope on the visual approach you can use the three to one rule to keep yourself roughly on a standard rate of descent on the approach..... (@1mile from the end of the runway - you should be about 300ft....@2miles - 600ft....@3miles - 900ft @4miles -1200ft @5miles - 1500ft and so on).... also most approach plates have a vertical rate of feet per minute in conjunction to your approach speed (ie. 140kts about 700fpm)..... also after watching your video everything seems to be right on schedule until they cleared you for the visual approach 26L @10 to11o'clock and16 miles....although you did not pickup the LOC. signal and you seemed a bit frustrated and rushed from there... I have been exactly the same place because I did NOT configure soon enough.......... please remember you have 8 potential flap position settings +the Landing Gear for approaches and landings and it takes a good bit of time to select each one of them and verify the flaps and gear are correctly in each position and do the before landing checklist...... so begin to configure the aircraft flaps and gear just a little bit earlier and it will provide you a bit of additional drag and give you a little bit more time to think and keep the aircraft from becoming too fast......So, when you do your approach briefing and set up the F.M.S. and radios begin to plan when and where you will start to configure. due to flap over-speeds we have begun to call out the maximum speed for each configure change (BEFORE we select it) ie. BELOW 250KTS FLAPS 1. 2. OR 5. BELOW 210KTS FLAPS10. BELOW 195KTS FLAPS15. BELOW170KTS FLAPS 25. BELOW 165KTS FLAPS 30. BELOW 156KTS FLAPS 40. there should be a placard.
great job overall... i am so jealous
Man do I wish you were my neighbor......Great set up.
Jack Flash it certainly would be great to have an FO.
Great setup!
You can try ILS landing, let the computer guide the plane down until minimal and take control and flare the plane for landing. When you captured the ILS, use speed hold to slow down to your landing speed and disengage the auto throttle around 500-800 feet above the ground. The auto throttle is very good at maintaining a certain speed of your choice. This way you will have a good lineup, good descent rate, and good speed for landing.
You have a very nice simulator. Keep practicing and you'll get the hang of it. If you have not already, check out flightdeck2sim here on UA-cam. Great channel for us 737 simmers.
Great flight sim and excellent videos. May I enquire as to which software you are using for graphics? X-Plane, Prepar 3D or Microsoft? Also, you frame rates are creamy smooth, whereras my full size sim, which I am in the final stages of building, has poor frame rates. I'm using the latets Alienware as the main system, and two old PC's for the Eicas. Any advice would be much appreciated!
Thank you. I’m was using X-Plane for external display. There are three PC, one for each screen and one acting as the x-plane server, and one pc for the cockpit displays.
Now, that's a sim!! Those "scenery mishaps" happen to us all, even with PP3D v4. The runway directions and localizer frequencies are not always current. Sometimes the old default "map" feature (while you are flying), will give you the localizer freq that's stored in the program. . . . . even if your current approach chart shows a diffferent one. I love that you are showing some close-ups of the PFD, ND, etc! Are you attending the Flight Sim Expo, in Vegas next month? Keep up the good work!
riddle60 Yes I will be there.
Last comment, I promise...the approach was actually something that could've been salvaged at the point where you said you should've gone around and that it was unstable. You were slightly low, and fast. You had gear and flaps out. All that was needed was a recognition of the excessive energy and some corrective action to fix it. Pulling power to idle would've helped, along with more flaps if available. Instead, at 29:28 you're still carrying a lot of power while you're well over the approach speed. So, at 29:28 you were in trouble, but prior to that, it was likely fixable with a power correction. Try to think about your energy state on final (the combination of speed and altitude) and take the action required to get it where it needs to be. Edit: watching again, you actually added power again while crossing over the numbers while still doing 170kts+. I have a feeling you weren't aware of the speed at all at the time. That's something to work on, as you probably know :) Consider doing 10-15 laps in the pattern with no autopilot...that might help you build an awareness for hand flying and energy management. Usually, those are skills that are acquired in a single engine piston prior to transitioning to jet operations, but if the 737 is the only sim you have, then it'll have to do. Don't skip the hand flying and pattern work, though, those skills are crucial. Keep trying!
Again, thanks. Gratefully received.
What Flap Sound File are you using? Is it from your flight model or did you get it from somewhere?
This all part of the FMOD sounds that come with the Zibo-Mod 737.
@@TemporarilyGrounded Thank You. Wonderful Job on your sim!
Thanks Karan
@@TemporarilyGrounded Would it be too much to ask you for the Flap .WAV file? I have gone through a lot of files on XPlane Forums but could not find this specific one. I am not sure if this is something you would be able to do? Thanks in advance.
It’s all part of the FMOD. If you download the Zibo-Mod (freeware by the way), you will automatically have the file.
Very good From Italy
From around 29:00 I'm interested to know what prompted the continuous throttle advances? Approach speed around 160kts just before then was already quite high - but very interesting video nonetheless! Cool setup you have.
Why was it wrong for him to say he was climbing via the SID because initially he was climbing via the SID until he got instructed to climb to 23 thousand then up to 29?
p.s Forgive me for my ignorance :)
Wow, you must be a financially stable person....very nice set up. WOW....you probably broke the landing gear off lol...
Rip front landing gear
Try using the auto land function, but disconnect the AP like 500 feet above the ground to get a sense of the control
Xiaotong Li Its important too first learn too land, and then start using auto pilot. Thats how you will eventually get really good at it.
Thinking of getting an ultrawide 34 inch monitor. Will FSX utilize the entire 21 by 9 aspect ratio screen?
faustsmith Yes
I hope you don't mind all the posts, but what happened on the climb out at around 2500ft in terms of power and climb gradient? It looks like the power was reduced to mid 70's on the N1 with a climb rate of around 1000fpm at just over 200kias. Typically there would be very slight reduction in power from takeoff to climb setting, pitching for 250kias to 10,000ft, then around 280-290 in the climb after that.
not at all...keep them coming. That was under autopilot autothrottle control. N1 wa set in the FMS to a 22k derate. I beleive it did then acelerate to 250 kias to 10,000 then 280-290 in the climb after that.
You know I do need an experienced FO ;)
Is this ATC Pilot Edge air traffic control via Microsoft Flight Simulator X effectively " streaming"? If this is in fact streaming, is the Intel or new AMD cpu/s better?
27:00 Did you have the localizer frequency tuned in on the NAV radios? This might otherwise be the answer as to why the aircraft didn't intercept it?
Hampus Norrby hi, yes i did, but the frequency for the ILS in the Sim was out of date. I updated it with a free tool and it was fine after that.
Is this ATC Pilot Edge air traffic control via Microsoft Flight Simulator X effectively " streaming"? If this is in fact streaming, is the Intel or new AMD cpu/s better?
What flight sim software do you use?
ItzGyrozッ when this video was shot I was using Prepar3d and Sim-Avionics for the cockpit systems. In my latest video I have now converted the sim to X-Plane 11.
Is this ATC Pilot Edge air traffic control via Microsoft Flight Simulator X effectively " streaming"? If this is in fact streaming, is the Intel or new AMD cpu/s better?
faustsmith PilotEdge, like VATSIM uses a stand-alone client and does not stream via Prepar3d or FSX. It runs outside of the sim, as if you are using a real radio. I believe Intel CPU are preferred for fligtsims, but check out the many discussions on CPU on forums like AVSIM.
What about which graphics cards are better that is Nvidia or Amd with FSX?
faustsmith Nvidia gtx 1080 or better
I am asking about streaming in respect of the Pilot Edge air traffic control utility? Is streaming involved with regard to Pilot Edge use? Does Pilot Edge have a fully functional ACARS? Would you see visually other traffic on your computer monitor/ screen and on your airplane's TACAS vsi instrument when on or using Pilot Edge? I ask if streaming is involved as there must be some kind of screen capture software working on all participants computers to record each airplane's position on the built-in database map of the flight simulator program that it may be displayed to other aircraft traffic within the Pilot Edge air traffic control system. How is other traffic determined and hence displayed to participant traffic on Pilot Edge if streaming is not involved?
faustsmith No ACAR, yes you see other traffic using PilotEdge. I believe only position data is sent, no screen capture involved.
May I suggest you review PilotEdge website and discussion forum to get a better idea of how it works etc.
I'm planning buy a simulator like this one... how much did cost?
CptBurgos that’s a difficult question to answer. If you build it yourself you will be into 5 digits, if you have it built you can get as high as 6 digits.
Pretty sure you need a bunch of new tires :)
new airplane
Wtf flaps 1 takeoff ?
BLAMBERRY why not flaps 1? KSAN has a fairly long runway and a flaps 1 departure would not be abnormal.
@@TemporarilyGrounded I suspect you are going for a realistic approach giving the time spent constructing this simulator. At 11:25 you are traveling at 185KIAS(and increasing) or roughly 210+ mph. At the same time, the camera is changed to a view of the PFD while traversing the opposing runway's 1500' markings. You are traveling at this point at 300+ feet per second. Upon passing taxiway B9 you the nosewheel is 5ft off the ground and you have still not established a positive rate of climb indicating 191KIAS when rotation speed was somewhere around 165 KIAS. You basically ate up 9000' of runway and only established a climb at VR+30 which is absolutely crazy! Especially when you had available flaps.
In this situation a flaps 1 takeoff would be abnormal as KSAN has high-density altitude, a derated thrust takeoff was selected and again, you hadn't started flying until you ate up almost 9000' of runway. For the sake of realism flaps 5 would have been more appropriate, and a rotation that actually started prior to Vr.
Super vidéo 1 like
Was it really your fault though for that landing? or the 19$ a month ATC controller just fucked up your vibe for a nice landing. x'D
Do you use XP11 and ZHSI
Hi Michael, Yes I do.
Temporarily Grounded so is that to both as I am going to look at starting to building something like this but not sure which place to buy hardware from ? Could I pick your brains over email if I provide it ? Because so far I have been looking at Open Cockpit and FDS
Why didn't you go around?
Javier Fabian I should have
good evening sr, Beautiful sim may i ask where do you buy the part to build the sim , I'm starting to build mine thank you very much. once again beautiful sim
Most of the parts came from Flightdeck Solutions (www.flightdesksolutions.com)
ohhhh I see Sr. I really appreciated you sharing that info with me , one more question how do you build the nd , efts , those systems you buy them like?
jhonny nascimento if you check out the components on the FDS site you can see how they are supplied. FDS can do a complete turnkey solution including installation or Dan supply the components to build it yourself.
ok I just checked thank you Sr very much for taking the time to explain keep it up with the nice videos
Flare???
Here's a tip. Don't blow the story of the flight at the start of the video!
NeonsStyle Thanks for the tip.
Where did you get your auto pilot?
Michael Chudov If you mean the MCP, from FlightDeck Solutions.
is that a computer atc talking to u
Randy Rankin Hi Randy, no that’s the PilotEdge service, so real people.
Where did you fly that simulator?
francobobfred ?
My mistake. I just read your profile and it looks like you built the sim yourself. I was just wondering if you were at some Training center.
francobobfred correct, I built it myself.
Just got to the takeoff. I'm not a jet pilot, by any stretch, however the rotation needs to be a bit more aggressive. The first 400ft (vertically) should be flown at V2+10 (typically), after which you begin accelerating. It appears you were at nearly 200kts very shortly after getting off the ground. There is some great information about takeoff profiles here: aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/3310/how-are-take-off-segments-defined
....again, thanks you.
What profider for using online sir, is it IVAO
It was flown on PilotEdge (it's also listed in the title of the video).
is he really talking to a real control tower?
Not real control tower, but yes a real person.
Aaaaaaand smashhhhh
Good
why didn't you go around?
Javier Fabian I should have.
Landing failed to butterize
Pilots make it look easy.. but it's not!
Landing approach speed is 145 knots...
THAT LANDING THO LOLLLL
sounds like seriously amateurs compared to vatsim network