Why I DON'T Shoot in S-Cinetone | S-Cinetone VS S-log3 | Part 1
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- Part 1 of a series comparing Slog3 to S-Cinetone. We will be transforming Slog3 into Rec709 using ACEScct Color Management.
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
01:00 - Disclaimers
01:45 - Test Overview
03:56 - Color Profile Comparison
07:56 - Dynamic Range
09:17 - Correcting First Samples
18:43 - Correcting Second Samples
23:13 - Outro
Sample Images provided to Patrons at:
Patreon.com/tonydae
I NEVER shoot S-Cinetone or any other baked in Rec709 look when I have even a tiny bit of post-production budget. Proper 10 bit log will provide a lot more room to make corrections if they are needed, as shown here, and will provide far more room for color grading as well. Here we explore what happens when we shoot in the wrong white balance and how much room we have to correct easily and efficiently.
Shot Specs:
Sony FX3, XAVC-SI, 4K 10 bit 4:2:2
Sigma 24-70 f2.8 DG DN @ F4
S-log3/S-Gamut3 shot in ISO640
S-Cinetone shot in ISO250 (To match exposure)
Note:
I used ISO 250 to match Rec709 transform from S-Log3 to make it easier to compare. You may wonder, why not base ISO of 100? It would require more exposure adjustments I wasn't going to make for this test and it would not prove anything anyways. S-Cinetone will ALWAYS have lower dynamic range compared to Slog3, Always. It isn't a debate or up for negotiation. If you do not believe me or Sony, you can try your own tests and choose whichever ISO levels you like, in fact, I encourage you to do so.
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Music Credit: Bensound.com
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What is ACES?
acescentral.com/
Sony White Papers:
pro.sony/s3/2020/03/24095333/...
pro.sony/s3/cms-static-conten...
Sticking with slog 3 for the most dynamic range, I shoot a lot of real estate and that extra range really helps
Very nice exemple and very clear too. S cinetone is a better rec 709 and as rec 709 you don't have much room for good and easy correction. Do you white balance in camera the same way for slog3 and s cinetone ? Do you do adjust it manualy by eye and with scopes or do you sometimes use custom "auto" white balance on a white en paper ? Thanks a lot.
White balance in camera is done with the custom white balance option onto the white card. It's the most accurate white balance system I've used in any camera. Eyeballing isn't a good idea because the monitor on the fx3 isn't going to be perfectly calibrated.
Would you recommend the movo white balance cards?
Those are what I have and mine are old and a little dirty :). They work well enough. One shot and XRite color checkers are better (I highly recommend the video passport), but the Movo cards are good quick references. I always have them with me plus my color checkers.
What profile did you shoot in when you had your 8-bit sony camera? I just got the A7c and I'm shooting in the standard S-Log 2 SGamut3.cine mode. It's not very forgiving on the skin tones if you expose for the sky (kinda hard to ETTR in these conditions without blowing out the whites) and the skin tones are lower than recommended. I'd love to know your exposure rules and settings.
Send me your files so I can take a look. I shot slog2, sgamut3.cine in 8bit. You will want to expose for the skin tones in 8 bit because there will not be a lot of room for adjustments. Exposing skin tones between 50 and 60 ire should yield decent results. If the highlights get clipped, honestly, it won't matter because skin tones from the subject is the most important. Clipped highlights happen and in 8 bit you'll have to make compromises in high contrast situations.
Looking at the scopes the top level of the skin tones were sitting just under 50 so I was way under. I'll expose for skin tones instead of worrying about the white bits in the sky. Thanks Tony.
I'm curious as to why you chose SGamut3.CIne over the standard S-Gamut.
@@ZekeFilms S-Gamut is not as consistent in its color interpretation when compared to SGamut3 because:
" Current S-Gamut
needs color temperature setting to select color conversion matrix. But S-Gamut3 is optimized to combine these color conversion matrix. The conversion matrix does not depend on color temperature any more. The ACES IDT for S-Gamut3 becomes simpler than S-Gamut." - Sony white papers
Basically, SGamut is inconsistent based on white balance and SGamut3 is consistent regardless of white balance.
I choose SGamut3.cine over SGamut3 because at 8 bit you are not going to get full SGamut3 coverage. You will see that there is larger color separation/color noise in the vector scope when comparing SGamut3 against SGamut3.cine, this will be represented by gaps in color. You can blend this easily with a small amount of chroma denoise in SGamut3.cine, but it requires more denoising in SGamut3.
SGamut3.cine provides much more accurate color representation when compared to rec709 due to color sampling. Shoot a highly saturated red in rec709, then shoot the same in SGamut3.cine and you will see the difference in a color space transform. The reds will be much "mushier" resulting in clipped reds in rec709 whereas sgamut3.cine will have much more natural reds.
Thanks for the detailed response. It's nice to know UA-cam has someone that can explain things with objective facts rather than give their subjective opinions. I need to get better at finding these resources and white papers.