the pads are not sloppy. The rotor is floating and has a clearance of approximately 1mm on the rivets to compensate for thermal expansion. So if you hold the brake and rock the bike back and forth you are basically moving the rotor back and forth in the rivets. It's a bit annoying if you are trying to check the headset, but actually you don't feel anything while cycling. They are some of the best brakes I've ever tried.
Oh they are plenty powerful, and yes the rotors float, but as they do they wiggle these pads around and make a right racket. The hole has been ovalized in this set. It would be better if they didn’t move as much I am sure. Hope rotors float more than this and you don’t see their pads wobbling around like this.
@@Mapdec Maybe. Have used my Campy rotors for around 1000Km and around 20000m of descent without problems so far. Hope rotors bend at the sight of a fly. spent the money on them once and will never do it again. Great rotors until something touches them, they go out of true so easily. which hole got rounded, the hole on the brake pads or the one on the caliper?
On the hoods the thumb slips in the opening. That lever is preloaded. It’s really mind blowing ergonomics, speed and reliability. And the brakes are the best. Once you’ve had them everything else feels like a death trap. Nothing beats Campy, nothing. And I’ve had all the group sets.
I've got thousands of miles on my Ekar equipped Niner and it's been absolutely reliable and a joy to use. Its very well built and has been impeccable since day one. Just because it's different doesn't mean it's bad.
@Mapdec Cycle Works That seems entirely subjective and not really fair as a review. Maybe the person who set it up did a lousy job. I've never had a single problem with the brakes, and to me, the ergo is excellent - very comfortable for just about everything - from centuries to single-track.
It’s not about shifting to a harder gear while breaking, it’s about keeping a good stable grip of the hoods (presumably while on rough terrain) while switching to a harder gear
@@onegrapefruitlover if you are used to one system it feels wierd to use another. Using a campagnolo groupset when I tried ekar it felt natural, while whenever I try a shimano to me it feels comfortable only from the drops.
I have Campagnolo 12 spd and the ergonomics are similar. You need to have your palm back and hold it with more of an open palm with the thumb closer to the shifter.
Nothin weird about it at all. You are just not used to it. Just use the underside of your thrumb to push down in the lever. Not a weird as moving the brake lever to change gear. Having ridden Shimabo GRX in my gravel bike I will never get use to the brake lever moving.
Magura MTB brakes have a similar system with the pads. The caliper is a solid mount to the frame or fork and the pads are magnetized to the pistons while also being held by a pin like the campag calipers. The magura pads do move a little inside of the caliper and make some noise but they are some of the best brakes ive used!
Paul great post. In the sense it’s elicited just about every view possible on the spectrum ……..and opened up some great dialogue in the process ranging from considered to ‘interesting’ . Just luv it 👍
The thumb shifter is meant to be operated by your thumb. The thumb consists of 3 segments, the proximal phalange (the one that connects to the rest of the hand), the medial phalange, and the distal phalange, the one that contains the thumbnail. The question for you is this: you're working with a thumb shifter--why in the world are you trying to operate the thumb shifter with the part of the thumb that is literally the farthest away from the shifter? Why not just use the medial phalange? Myself, I use my distal phalange for shifting maybe 3% of the time. I can use the proximal phalange if I'm in the Belgian aero-tuck position, but most of the time it is the medial phalange. Or, of course, I can use finger knuckles. The caveat? You must adjust the position of the controls precisely. Do that and changing gears with the medial phalange is as easy and intuitive as rocking your wrist. Oh, and those brake pads? Let me ask you this: if they look sloppy, do they *feel* sloppy? Imagine disk brakes without squeals, pings, rubbing,. That's a better way to assess the brake system's integrity.
So I change gear with my thumb knuckle? Yeah these brakes have a sudden bite. Feels like your headset is knocking, but just and floating rotor settling. I did a long form vid after I spent a couple of weeks with Ekar.
@@malcolmhetherington817 As PT suggested, Campy rotors for road bikes work too. But I prefer Ekar rotors although they are 20 grams heavier. Because they are even stiffer and never bend, I like them. They are basically headaches proof.
You get used to rocking your hand to change down on the hoods. It's easy. I did the Three Peaks CX with Ekar. Nothing much more challenging than that event!
@@brookegravitt4117having just bought a campagnolo mechanical…all I can say is the thumb shifter rocks Plus, I have had to warranty my shimano dura ace brake calipers TWICE as the seals leak too all over the pads. So Shimano fanboying is not convincing to me right now.🤬😡
Just as in initial use of a bicycle, one might say, "This is impossible!! I need at least one more wheel to stay upright" Practice makes perfect. I find Shimano odd and Sram weird. But they make them by the thousands, maybe millions. Just like Campagnolo. Because some people really like the ergonomics a lot.
The trick to matintaining a good grip on rough terrain and still be able to change gear is to ride a flat bar gravel bike. As an added bonus, you'll also have much finer control of your brakes and steering. Drop bars are great for the road, but a poor compromise when riding rough ground.
Ekar User here. In fact I’m using 4 different Campy groupsets , three of them Ultra Shift of various generations and one of them being Ekar (which has the Power Shift Logic). There’s no trick really. If you want to properly push the thumb paddle you will have to move back your hand on the lever. Personally, I’ve developed the habit to keep my hands where they are and just push down the paddle with the root of my thumb by making kind of an inward twisting movement. I hope I’m explaining this well.
@@twillyspanksyourcakes Not afraid to admit that. I like mechanical. I like the Campy hood shape. The hydro brakes are better period. I’ve ridden them all. The rest is your opinion which is fine by me.
Campy’s thumb lever has always divided opinions. Just like Shimano’s brake lever/shifter combo. You like it or you don’t. It definitely has its drawbacks. Especially if you got small hands.
Theres a little allen key adjuster on the front of the brake lever that pulls the brake lever closer to the bars for those with lady sized hands, that might make it easier for you😊
It’s funny that I’ve been riding Ekar on my gravel bike after previously using mechanical Shimano GRX and think that Ekar is better in every way. Brakes have better modulation and don’t squeal, shifting is precise with smaller steps between the gears. I like the thumb lever arrangement and find it easy to reach from the hoods or drops.
@@Mapdec I don’t really find any situations where I’m gripping the bars tightly and needing to shift at the same time. Perhaps I don’t do much in the way of extreme off road gravel biking. I can honestly say I’d never even thought about it until I watched your video clip.
find it hard to think of a situation where I'd be changing to a harder gear while on terrain rough enough to have an impact on my stability if I move my hand slightly backwards for a second.. TT on cobbles, maybe?
I use it regularly on my gravel bike, no issue with the hoods and no issue at all with the brakes, the best brakes I’ve ever used indeed, better than shimano that are great too. I wonder if you are really riding with this groupset or if you are using it only to do these videos
Surprised you arent commenting on how hard it is to keep ekar indexed. Im completely against 13-speed until they invent a better chainline standard for gravel frames ... instead 12-speed or a good 2x setup
I had campy on my first serious road bike. Bought into the marketing. It’s pretty but shit unfortunately. The other big 2 are so much better. Function over form for me now. Every time.
Hugely beneficial USP of the Mapdec approach is ‘call it how you see it and invite the experience of others, on an across the board basis’. Said as one with Campagnolo bias although also ride Shimano and Sram. Can anyone out there enlighten me as to why the thumb switch re-design for Ekar is an advantage (if at all) over conventional thumb levers on 12 11 10 9 8 speed etc ? Cheers 😁
I installed a campagnolo groupset recently for a customer, having dealt with hundreds of sram and shimano high end groupsets in the past. I was not impressed with the quality, setup or ergonomics of the whole thing.
I'be just installed ltwoo GR9 hydraulic groupset which levers are heavily inspired on these Ekar ones and they have the same ergonomy problem with the downshift trigger.
recommend pushing the brake lever and closely watching what the caliper halves do relative to each other. sloppy pads/rotors won't be much a worry then (-:
Not that weird, you should be changing your grip a lot. Also on gravel terrain, you should have a very loose grip on the bars anyway. I don’t know why you are braking and trying to shift into harder gears at the same time either. It’s a fine system. Just not what you’re used to. Maybe you’re just one of those types of people that hates on everything that is not within your very extremely specific taste of bike parts, otherwise called a snob.
Umm. In this video I was curious. Having spent 15 hours riding it, I’m going to tear it apart. It’s a horrific groupset that shouldn’t even be on the market. 9 speed sora works better.
Nothing weird about it .. I got Shimano dura ace di2 12 speed and campa super record 11 speed and I don’t have problems with both .. needs time to get used to it .. when I got my dura ace after riding campa for 8 years I miss shifted the whole time. Nothing weird about it.
the pads are not sloppy. The rotor is floating and has a clearance of approximately 1mm on the rivets to compensate for thermal expansion. So if you hold the brake and rock the bike back and forth you are basically moving the rotor back and forth in the rivets. It's a bit annoying if you are trying to check the headset, but actually you don't feel anything while cycling. They are some of the best brakes I've ever tried.
Oh they are plenty powerful, and yes the rotors float, but as they do they wiggle these pads around and make a right racket. The hole has been ovalized in this set. It would be better if they didn’t move as much I am sure. Hope rotors float more than this and you don’t see their pads wobbling around like this.
@@Mapdec Maybe. Have used my Campy rotors for around 1000Km and around 20000m of descent without problems so far. Hope rotors bend at the sight of a fly. spent the money on them once and will never do it again. Great rotors until something touches them, they go out of true so easily. which hole got rounded, the hole on the brake pads or the one on the caliper?
@@soapowejazz the hole in the pads.
the brakes are basically maguras for roadies
Agreed. The brakes are fantastic, and very easy to modulate in all sorts of conditions.
On the hoods the thumb slips in the opening. That lever is preloaded. It’s really mind blowing ergonomics, speed and reliability. And the brakes are the best. Once you’ve had them everything else feels like a death trap.
Nothing beats Campy, nothing. And I’ve had all the group sets.
That’s gonna get expensive
If other groupsets feel like a death trap you're probably not setting them up very well.
I ve no idea about Ecar but I ve riden all group sets from the early 2000s and Campa is top with ergonomics , function and durability
This is defo not the usual campag. It’s like a hardcore roadie was reluctantly forced to design this and they purposely did a bad job to see it fail.
I've got thousands of miles on my Ekar equipped Niner and it's been absolutely reliable and a joy to use. Its very well built and has been impeccable since day one. Just because it's different doesn't mean it's bad.
It works fine. Apart from the brake vibration. It’s just the ergonomics that are baffling.
@Mapdec Cycle Works That seems entirely subjective and not really fair as a review. Maybe the person who set it up did a lousy job. I've never had a single problem with the brakes, and to me, the ergo is excellent - very comfortable for just about everything - from centuries to single-track.
Also, from the hoods, you press on the top of the trigger. From the drops you use the lower part.
@@Mapdec “works fine”…. didn’t u say it’s finicky in another vid?
Im a little confused. What situation would you be breaking (presumably to slow down?) and changing into a harder gear?
It’s not about shifting to a harder gear while breaking, it’s about keeping a good stable grip of the hoods (presumably while on rough terrain) while switching to a harder gear
@@onegrapefruitlover if you are used to one system it feels wierd to use another. Using a campagnolo groupset when I tried ekar it felt natural, while whenever I try a shimano to me it feels comfortable only from the drops.
😂😂😂😂😂
@@onegrapefruitloverI think a good follow up question is why wouldn’t you be in the drops if your trying to hammer out some speed on a rough surface
I have Campagnolo 12 spd and the ergonomics are similar. You need to have your palm back and hold it with more of an open palm with the thumb closer to the shifter.
Nothin weird about it at all. You are just not used to it. Just use the underside of your thrumb to push down in the lever. Not a weird as moving the brake lever to change gear. Having ridden Shimabo GRX in my gravel bike I will never get use to the brake lever moving.
Campy has only had this set up for…. 30 years?
@@trwilliams22 😂👍✌️
LOL my 40yo C-Record downtube shifters currently on my steel COLNAGO are laughing right now!!!
New Ekar user, I thumb shift on the top of the lever/c shaped thing. Been using road Campagnolo for years so maybe ive adapted.
Magura MTB brakes have a similar system with the pads. The caliper is a solid mount to the frame or fork and the pads are magnetized to the pistons while also being held by a pin like the campag calipers. The magura pads do move a little inside of the caliper and make some noise but they are some of the best brakes ive used!
Magura make the campag calipers.
@@Mapdec You learn something new every day!
Paul great post. In the sense it’s elicited just about every view possible on the spectrum ……..and opened up some great dialogue in the process ranging from considered to ‘interesting’ . Just luv it 👍
The thumb shifter is meant to be operated by your thumb. The thumb consists of 3 segments, the proximal phalange (the one that connects to the rest of the hand), the medial phalange, and the distal phalange, the one that contains the thumbnail. The question for you is this: you're working with a thumb shifter--why in the world are you trying to operate the thumb shifter with the part of the thumb that is literally the farthest away from the shifter? Why not just use the medial phalange? Myself, I use my distal phalange for shifting maybe 3% of the time. I can use the proximal phalange if I'm in the Belgian aero-tuck position, but most of the time it is the medial phalange. Or, of course, I can use finger knuckles.
The caveat? You must adjust the position of the controls precisely. Do that and changing gears with the medial phalange is as easy and intuitive as rocking your wrist.
Oh, and those brake pads? Let me ask you this: if they look sloppy, do they *feel* sloppy? Imagine disk brakes without squeals, pings, rubbing,. That's a better way to assess the brake system's integrity.
So I change gear with my thumb knuckle?
Yeah these brakes have a sudden bite. Feels like your headset is knocking, but just and floating rotor settling. I did a long form vid after I spent a couple of weeks with Ekar.
I don't know about the whole groupset but Ekar rotors are the best rotors I have ever used on my Shimano groupset.
Oh. Interesting.
Think I recall PeakTorque recommending campy rotors over Shimano rotors
@@malcolmhetherington817 As PT suggested, Campy rotors for road bikes work too. But I prefer Ekar rotors although they are 20 grams heavier. Because they are even stiffer and never bend, I like them. They are basically headaches proof.
You get used to rocking your hand to change down on the hoods. It's easy. I did the Three Peaks CX with Ekar. Nothing much more challenging than that event!
It seems a new technique is needed. A rotation of the wrist rather than a push with a thumb.
actually very opposite to the shimano stuff where there is less grip as you hold onto the drops while shifting to the harder gear
Great grips. I love them.
The trick is to bin it and get a Shimano groupset.
Campag hates this one crazy trick!
@@brookegravitt4117having just bought a campagnolo mechanical…all I can say is the thumb shifter rocks
Plus, I have had to warranty my shimano dura ace brake calipers TWICE as the seals leak too all over the pads.
So Shimano fanboying is not convincing to me right now.🤬😡
@@brianmiller5444 what gen dura ace brakes? Appears the ceramic pistons have been replaced by resin across the board
@@thedownunderverse brand new 2022
@@brianmiller5444 so 12 speed then… I thought those issues had been eliminated
Isn't this lever design for handlebars with big flare angle ? The grip may be different..
Maybe
But this is bugger all to do with flare or not flare when you are holding your hands on the hoods it doesn't matter.
I love the Ekar. Have 2 bikes with it. Not confused at all.
Just as in initial use of a bicycle, one might say, "This is impossible!! I need at least one more wheel to stay upright"
Practice makes perfect.
I find Shimano odd and Sram weird. But they make them by the thousands, maybe millions. Just like Campagnolo. Because some people really like the ergonomics a lot.
The trick to matintaining a good grip on rough terrain and still be able to change gear is to ride a flat bar gravel bike.
As an added bonus, you'll also have much finer control of your brakes and steering.
Drop bars are great for the road, but a poor compromise when riding rough ground.
Good to see what you meant after the UA-cam the other day. A real shame about some of the design choices and odd gear ratios.
The same Italian ergonomic philosophy that makes a Ferrari 308 owner put their feet in a off-center tunnel to work pedals that are too close together.
Could be the Reason they dropped this trigger style on their new wireless shifter? 🤷🏾♂️
Totally agree. I use the hoods all the time, and Ekar is a pain for shifting uphill rapidly. Common criticism.
On rough terrain you don't ride on hoods. It's as simple as that.
Sure.
Ekar User here. In fact I’m using 4 different Campy groupsets , three of them Ultra Shift of various generations and one of them being Ekar (which has the Power Shift Logic). There’s no trick really. If you want to properly push the thumb paddle you will have to move back your hand on the lever. Personally, I’ve developed the habit to keep my hands where they are and just push down the paddle with the root of my thumb by making kind of an inward twisting movement. I hope I’m explaining this well.
@@twillyspanksyourcakes Not afraid to admit that. I like mechanical. I like the Campy hood shape. The hydro brakes are better period. I’ve ridden them all. The rest is your opinion which is fine by me.
Easy. This isn’t Facebook.
Campy’s thumb lever has always divided opinions. Just like Shimano’s brake lever/shifter combo. You like it or you don’t. It definitely has its drawbacks. Especially if you got small hands.
Theres a little allen key adjuster on the front of the brake lever that pulls the brake lever closer to the bars for those with lady sized hands, that might make it easier for you😊
I don't think it will solve his issue, but an adjustment too the lever reach would be good.
I have ekar. These claims are nonsense. Its a very good groupset, and that is coming from a shimano guy.
There is a longer video you will love.
It's pronounced "Campanyolo" not Cam-pag-nolo
I thought I pronounced campag-nolo really bad. But I have a friend now.
Campanono. 😎
It’s funny that I’ve been riding Ekar on my gravel bike after previously using mechanical Shimano GRX and think that Ekar is better in every way. Brakes have better modulation and don’t squeal, shifting is precise with smaller steps between the gears. I like the thumb lever arrangement and find it easy to reach from the hoods or drops.
Cool. How do you do it. What’s the grip and click technique? This is my first time using it on a ride and not just in a car park or workstand.
@@Mapdec I don’t really find any situations where I’m gripping the bars tightly and needing to shift at the same time. Perhaps I don’t do much in the way of extreme off road gravel biking. I can honestly say I’d never even thought about it until I watched your video clip.
find it hard to think of a situation where I'd be changing to a harder gear while on terrain rough enough to have an impact on my stability if I move my hand slightly backwards for a second.. TT on cobbles, maybe?
To correct for over-shifting to an easier gear?
So you actually bought something 🇮🇹.
And now you are surprised it's got caracter...🤔
Best comment! 😂
Just theory from your side? Did you ever needed to switch up in tough terrain?
Yeah. We did a whole review on this with the time Adhx
A far cry from camp road groupset that's stuffs art, ekar doesn't look nice, the shifter just seems crooked
It’s not that big a deal , can’t believe it. !
I use it regularly on my gravel bike, no issue with the hoods and no issue at all with the brakes, the best brakes I’ve ever used indeed, better than shimano that are great too. I wonder if you are really riding with this groupset or if you are using it only to do these videos
Surprised you arent commenting on how hard it is to keep ekar indexed. Im completely against 13-speed until they invent a better chainline standard for gravel frames ... instead 12-speed or a good 2x setup
Oh I did. I made a very ranty video about it. And the creaky cassette.
I had campy on my first serious road bike. Bought into the marketing. It’s pretty but shit unfortunately. The other big 2 are so much better. Function over form for me now. Every time.
Campag is moving away from thumb shifter with the new road groupset. This one is already obselete
Only for electronic
Rotate your hands inwards and shift with your palm, not your thumb
Shittiest system ever...I use it on my Canyon Gravel and I fully agree with you
If you’re on the hoods and worried about control on a rough surface then you’re doing it wrong anyways
a maior alegria pra um dono de campagnolo é quando ele desinstala o campagnolo e compra um Shimano
lol, now do down tube shifters.
You have mounted the levers in a wrong way. Clearly you dont know much about that groupset
Clearly
Finally someone noticed it.
I thought id be the only one
Why do you want harder gear when you're breaking? 🤔
I don’t. I want to grip
Hugely beneficial USP of the Mapdec approach is ‘call it how you see it and invite the experience of others, on an across the board basis’. Said as one with Campagnolo bias although also ride Shimano and Sram. Can anyone out there enlighten me as to why the thumb switch re-design for Ekar is an advantage (if at all) over conventional thumb levers on 12 11 10 9 8 speed etc ? Cheers 😁
work grip strength
I installed a campagnolo groupset recently for a customer, having dealt with hundreds of sram and shimano high end groupsets in the past. I was not impressed with the quality, setup or ergonomics of the whole thing.
until the brake calipers fail. twice. And I am afraid of a third time.
Compare them all after 10,000 miles.
Super EZ, switch to Shimano
I'be just installed ltwoo GR9 hydraulic groupset which levers are heavily inspired on these Ekar ones and they have the same ergonomy problem with the downshift trigger.
recommend pushing the brake lever and closely watching what the caliper halves do relative to each other. sloppy pads/rotors won't be much a worry then (-:
Ekar is just ergonomically terrible unless you’re a monkey. Bin it, the frame deserves better.
i suffer with joint problems in my thumbs just look at that make the hurt
EKAR was a fail.
you won't be able to brake and change gears on Shimano mechanical either.
Just looking to shift without loosing grip
Not that weird, you should be changing your grip a lot. Also on gravel terrain, you should have a very loose grip on the bars anyway. I don’t know why you are braking and trying to shift into harder gears at the same time either. It’s a fine system. Just not what you’re used to. Maybe you’re just one of those types of people that hates on everything that is not within your very extremely specific taste of bike parts, otherwise called a snob.
Umm. In this video I was curious. Having spent 15 hours riding it, I’m going to tear it apart. It’s a horrific groupset that shouldn’t even be on the market. 9 speed sora works better.
Who cares it's expensive Italian design that's all that matters 😉
Nothing weird about it .. I got Shimano dura ace di2 12 speed and campa super record 11 speed and I don’t have problems with both .. needs time to get used to it ..
when I got my dura ace after riding campa for 8 years I miss shifted the whole time.
Nothing weird about it.
They’ve invented gears on a bike omg god leave them alone hahahah
Refer to rule #5
It’s Italian, “working as intended”
Overpriced junk! #campagnolo
Crapagnolo
Sure it's not Crampagnolo?
I hate this groupset. I'm a mechanic and I build it fairly regularly. It's a bugger to build and is expensive.
Drop bars suck.
Just go axs, rival axs is just great
Who buys Campagnolo in 2023 ?