Black Women Do NOT Marry Down |
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
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00:00 Intro
02:24 Inspired by The Heterosexuals Aren't Okay
03:59 Relationship advice is always political
04:59 Questions discussed in this video
07:03 History of why marriage does not benefit Black women
12:53 Black women have always had to work
14:27 Black women's labor is the foundation of true womanhood
19:54 White men are not better providers, white women been complaining
24:34 Who Black women are encouraged to marry.
26:25 Labor history & the blue-collar Black man vs the high-class pimp
29:20 False comparisons to other ethnic groups marrying up
32:56 The New York Times Popeye's Couple
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It costs Black Women $25k annually by Marrying down and going 50/50…. Disenfranchisement or NOT, Black Women are NOT winning in marriages when they pick felons, drug addicts, less educated, bare minimum…. Etc. Lets stop 🛑 being disingenuous and call a SPADE ♠️ a SPADE… Black Women are not getting the BEST wealthiest men on earth 🌍 so in essence they are Marrying down. 🤷🏾♀️
I think the real discussion is how black women have been framed as gold diggers or only wanting to be with somebody who's already established. It's my experience that black women have always been willing to build or help their partners.
But now THOSE women who are willing to build or help their partners are being demonized and called Pick Mes.
Exactly. A lot of those black women end up being the come up woman until he’s stable enough to find someone who is “preferred”.
Yes, this is very true. It has been a trend recently for black men to tell black women their standards are too high when many black women just want their men to be as established as they are. The fact that so many black women end of settling and so many more end up raising their black children alone proves otherwise.
That part. Yet forget non BW finesse BM the most. 🙄
80% of Black women are obese and it's getting worse. Go visit Atlanta.
I am a college educated nanny, and have been so for almost nine years. Most of the families I've worked for have been white or East Asian, and at least 90% of the mothers have been stay at home moms. I just wanted to add to your point about women who marry rich men losing agency. While there is a small level of truth to that, in reality, most of these women come from generational wealth themselves, and are living off of their husband's (very large) income by choice. Trust me when I say, these women don't take shit from anybody, lol. Most of these women's fathers have already secured them a sizable inheritance, or own a large steak in a family company that they don't even have to touch because their husbands pay for everything. While this was a refreshing discovery (as the "manosphere" will have you believe that women married to rich men are subservient doormats), it was still a harsh reminder that black women would be locked out of that luxury in most cases as we don't have the financial backing from our parents to even assert ourselves in a partnership the way we might like.
This confirms what I always thought that the only time it makes sense to be a stay at home mom is if you come from a rich family that will provide a safety net should the relationship between you and your husband break down. If that isn’t the set up I don’t see how it’s feasible to be a stay at home mom especially in this economy
@@misschrissy2897 correct! the only 2 examples I've seen in my profession where the wife "married" up, both husbands were BARELY at home. It was incredibly common for him to be in another city/country most nights of the week. For one Asian woman I knew, it was an open secret in her family that the husband had a three-year-old son with another woman in another country!!
Yep, "agency" has more to do with people around you and how much negotiating power you have, not so much with money. Since the beginning, rich marry rich to keep money in family, even with black immigrants.
Never seen a black stay at home mom. Must be nice
@@butterflygirl01 They are out there! I stayed home for three years when I had my two kids 13 months apart..we lived off my husband's income but no he wasn't rich lol
This video is phenomenal because there are so many conversations that come out of this, while debunking so many talking points that those that participate in dating discussions try to use.
phenomenal?? it really wasn't...Jouelzy can do better.
We need to really start marrying up. Let us have that conversation. This was alot of unnecessary history without mentioning men.
@@keeping_youaccountable1 So because she spoke honestly and backed it up, you want her to do better because it doesn’t demonize black men as unsuitable partners and paints black women as saints who are doing the lord’s work by “dating down.” It’s simply not true.
@@PSarks Many BM don't really want marriage and require more support...especially today.
@@KayDejaVu This is NOT true and there's literally NO data to support that.
He took her to Popeyes on their first date after he stood her up 2 times before that 🥴massive downgrade if you ask me 🤷🏽♀️
I agree, it's discussed in the video.
Exactly, which has nothing to do with the past. And did you hear they way he described their relationship? Crazy, IMO.
Before I watch the full video: reframing the past is yet another excuse. It's a reason why Black males perform below their own women but not an excuse. It's 2022 and this is still very obvious. When Balck men have two pennies to run together they found non-black women to marry and that since 100 years ago 🤷🏽♀️
I don’t know. I was pretty flaky during the Pandemic, so I can’t blame anyone for that.
@@kayanclarke5216 Excuse you?
I really love your point at the end about our perception of other cultures doing “so much better” while having no real idea how those cultures/marriages actually operate internally. It’s a huge problem in the Black community in the UK. Every day someone is talking about the Asians” or “the x” or “the y” and then they come with a point that you can tell comes from a place of complete ignorance. We need to stop affirming our inferiority complex in comparing ourselves to other ethnicities.
Yes! That part ( starting at 29:21 ) is so important. It's a troubling habit Black folk have when we analyze our situations and it's bothered me for a long long time.
“Affirming our inferiority complex” is a word!! Idolizing circumstances that we think are better when we’ve never actually peeked over the fence to see what really going on! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Yes! I discussed this with my friend the other day, she made an assumption that was very wrong. We have to acknowledge that many of us often surround ourselves with Black media, social groups, etc. The only time we interact with people of other races in mass is oftentimes exclusively at our jobs. We can't make assumptions about what they do or don't do, we aren't in their world enough to actually know. I'm definitely going to use "affirming our inferiority complex" from now on. That's an amazing way to describe what's going on in our community.
Yes, just the little bit I hear from non bw, especially the Asians or east European women let's me know there's a lot more issues
Good point.
My first comment was an essay so I'll add this in a second. I actually do think the NYT couple is quite common. I think everything from the seeming lack of effort and thought put into their first date to her putting pressure on him to commit while he was seeing other women is very common. I think the way the writer chose to narrate it blew the story out of proportion, but I know way too many women who are in relationships (or were in relationships) that sound very much like theirs.
So many men can get away with "oh, I don't need to treat her. We're so connected, we sat in the parking lot of a fast food joint for hours and *that* was special". The galling part was the description of the relationship, not their economic or social status. For ME...dating down is about the standards you set for yourself and the people around you. He seemed WAAAAAYYYYYY...less into her. The relationship sounded like he put a lot less effort into it and she was extrapolating a lot more significance than his efforts warrant. A woman dates down when she accepts less than she deserves from a man who could do better if he wanted to.
Yes! All of this
Absolutely!!!
That last line 🤌🏾
@@AmandaKavana I'm really glad that sentence came to me. I was trying to wrap my arms around the fact that women who "date down" typically seem to give more than they get; and that doesn't have to be financial.
Exactly dating down isn't just about finances and education. It's about the content of that person's character.
While this video explains the historical context for how we got here however, it does not excuse where we are today. Black Women who are financially stable, educated, no kids, emotionally mature etc are consistently told to date men of lower socio economic status, lower education level and low emotional intelligence with questionable family values. Black Women consistently rise to the occasion meanwhile Black Men get history lessons for why they can't.
Even though this video wasn't for me, I'ma still support.
@Ashlei With An I you leave out most BW are lower in LOOKS.
Agree!
There's a lack of accountability for why so many African American men are not rising to the occasion to be better mates.
Agree totally. I totally understand the history behind the topic. However, I do believe that it's time for bw to leave this antiquated mindset in the past and start to vet and choose partners based on progression not digression.
That part. Now black women who have it together are told their standards are too high and when they settle they are blamed for choosing a 'dusty'. The men don't get blamed for their bad behavior half the time. Black men have the same opportunities as black women while also having the privilege of being men. They need to do better
I agree with this comment. When discussing the issue they have with BW, BM will REFUSE to acknowledge the history, racism or socioeconomic factors leading to BW being overweight, wearing weave or not being “submissive” enough. Meanwhile, BW can’t critique BM without overtly or inadvertently pinning all of their shortcomings on history, racism and socioeconomics. If we’re expected to do better TODAY despite our history, then they should also be expected to do better TODAY despite their history
Why are some black people so stuck in the past. It’s not the 60’s, we’re in 2022. Black women have every reason and right to ask for suitable partners who make more than us. If some black women want marriage, let them.
Ladies just don't get a good look guy like that they have to qualify for a good guy the same way he has to qualify for you.
@@tipsandtricks6071 what does that have to do with most women wanting a provider? Only black women are shame for that.
@@tipsandtricks6071 if she’s in a certain tax bracket she should at least be looking at her tax bracket for dating or higher.
@@bdott1538 have you ever thought to yourself that all we hear about is what ladies want. Has it ever crossed your minds that maybe a guy in the same tax bracket or higher has preferences too. Typically by the time a lady makes as much as a guy who makes decent money or higher she's going to be old. Studies show that guys of any age prefer ladies in their early twenties. Look it up if you don't believe me.
@@tipsandtricks6071 so you are literally proving Joulzey wrong by saying BW SHOULD date down.
Thanks for that. Bc for some reason Joulzey doesn’t believe folks literally tell BW to date down. And that’s EXACTLY what you’re doing.
I think this video conflates two different "conversations" that are happening. There was a Brookings Report that had to be renamed because it caused such a stir when it was first published under its original title, something like: "Black women are poised to close the wealth gap, until they marry black men". The conclusion was that black women as a subgroup are in a position to close earning and wealth gaps, but the best predictor of why they fail to meet those projections is marriage to a black man that isn't on a similar path. I would be really interested to hear your thoughts on that analysis.
This video addresses (quite well) the hypergamy style dynamic that runs parallel to the "black women in luxury" discourse. But for me, a college educated black woman, the marrying down question is one of the already middle class or those on the path to the middle class. This particular conversation often comes hand in hand with the observation that black men are more willing to date and marry outside their race than black women, so in the professional class where you're already underrepresented, black women have a hard time finding a partner in their environment. These women choosing more blue collar or working class men are then considered marrying down.
This conversation then touches on the "gender-wars" conversations where conflict between partners in these relationships can be attributed to a man who doesn't "pull his weight" trying to "humble" a black woman who might be the bread winner of the relationship. This obviously comes back to the infinite well of podcasts where young black men and women are arguing about who is high value, and what professional, educated women "deserve" from their partners. A lot of these "do you pretend to go for your wallet on the first date?" "do you split the bills?" "yada yada yada" questions trickle down from the perceived warping of the gender dynamics in these relationships.
Even in Hollywood, when a woman in the industry gives her - usually unqualified - partner control of her brand or finances, it's characterized as fluffing the ego of a man that could be seen as emasculated by his partners success. If suddenly her money is funny, or her husband-manager is booking her in low rent venues that his friend runs, the woman is seen as letting a bad personal choice hurt her financial status and career growth.
Excellent, thorough, and I too would love to hear her comments on what you wrote.
Such an interesting comment. I’m keen to see what her response is to your thoughts and the article you presented.
She won't response. She wants Black Love to prevail no matter the cost
This is a helpful aspect to bring to the convo!
Most black men make more than black women. Stop the cap.
All women are different. Some will go into a relationship knowing he’s trifling and some will find out along the way but it’s all about whether or not you leave or stay and know your worth. I hate to see women settle for less and go where they’re not appreciated because they’re desperate for love or wanna feel validated.
I agree with all of that. I also see women stay with men who mistreat them because she feels that he's a great catch (looks/money/status) and is probably the best she'll ever do. Women also chase after successful men who are notoriously bad partners and have kids by them for a meal ticket.
Black women are conditioned to stay and “Ride the storm into better days”
Men are not infallible. Worth? It depends on how a person shows up in the world, where they grew up, who raised them, belief systems, and relationships they have outside of an intimate relationship.
Where are all these Black women with low self-esteem? I swear I never meet these women. I'm convinced the men that they partner with lower their self-esteem. Perhaps... Some wear a mask to hide it, which repels those who are intimidated but attracts those who seek to break their spirits. Now one must wonder if in fact they got what they were looking for? Someone to affirm what they already believed to be true about themselves.
@@JulyIzHere and then the better days never come 💀😭 but you know what comes?? Old age. Still riding in old age🥺🥺 still waiting for them better days to come, the HUSBAND has EVEN DIED AND THE BETTER DAYS ARE ON THEIR MIND STILL and it's so sad... the socialisation is ill. No more. As much as it gets a quick chuckle, it's actually really not funny - all that time and energy... for what?
Hmm generally agree with Jouelzy's content but not today. Last time I saw the stats, very few BW were getting married to BM anyway. Sorta sounded like she is saying--high earning men are not the measure of a good partners--I agree. I also heard a sound argument about structural racism--absolutely! But I'd like to see more BM actively protesting incarceration, limited access to capital, fighting for reparations, protesting against extrajudicial murder by the police or by other BM. Far too many BW at the forefront. I heard anecdotes about WW marrying "down" too as evidenced by a Tik Tok video but the data (not Tyler Perry) suggests that BW are earning almost as much as BM, are better educated, are too often abandoned to manage households alone, w/o financial support. WW do not experience femicide the way black women do (BW have to remain silent about this in order to not label all BM this way), and they are at height of the beauty hierarchy created by WM--too often held up and even undergirded by higher earning BM who marry and pass their generational wealth to them. BW are expected to fight for the community, remain silent when we are abused, hold up our families, educate ourselves, compete for men who tell us that many of us are not their preference, grin and bear it all so nobody can say--"see I told you". Sure sounds like dating down to me. Wonder if the data says married BW are happier than single BW?
So what I understood from this was “our grandmothers didn’t technically marry down bc they married who was available, in a historical period of segregation and racism.”
Okay gotcha. So what does that mean for women today? From a historian’s perspective, providing context to those women’s choices is good. But it’s not prescriptive, and I think a lot of viewers were looking for something a bit more…futuristic? Like, projections or a discussion around BW’s potential for increasing social capital and net worth beyond today.
Since we didn’t get that here it feels like a flop. Not bc the information wasn’t valuable, but bc our current reality is most BW are not getting romantic partners on their level (from an education or financial standpoint).
So they remain single for extended periods or inevitably settle. The culture kinda displays this reality in popular tv shows and movies. So it feels a little gaslight-y to not address the elephant in the room
Are we really still asking this question?
Is the black woman earning more than her husband? If so, then from a financial perspective, she married down, and his race doesn't matter. It's that simple.
If you married him for other reasons, those are valid too. But this is why vetting for character is important, and why a man's work and earning is just as important. If a man truly is self-sacrificing, loyal, diligent, attentive, righteous, ambitious, etc, these qualities are not going to be restricted to his character. A man who sacrifices, is loyal, is diligent, pays attention to details, pursues mastery in his job or craft, and is fair in his dealings overwhelming makes a good living because these qualities make good employees/employers as well as good husbands. He doesn't have to be rich, and you may still outearn him, but if something should happen to your earning potential, be it a happy incident like a baby, or a bad incident like sickness or injury, you can trust a man like this to be able to respect you when you don't contribute like before and financially see you both (+ baby, if applicable) through this period. You just don't get that sort of reassurance from a man who works at Popeyes.
And fellow black ladies... the elephants in the room are _black_ men. Black women still lead in single parent households, are still the sole or primary breadwinners in households with men in them, and if we are married, are overwhelmingly married to black men. So if the data says that statistically, the black woman marries down if she marries a black man beneath her league (and we don't really need data to understand what our own two eyes tell us, do we?), then level up, and even _out_ if necessary. I don't mean go for rappers or ball players or rich academic elites either. My friend has a degree and teaches 3rd grade, and her husband doesn't and still outearns her as a cop. Explore your options. This is about our quality of _life,_ not "black love" or whatever rhetoric is used to shame us. Plenty of good men out here, and not all of them will be black. Is his race really worth everything you can gain, or worse, lose? Because I look around our community and see us lose so much by not marrying at least our equals, black or not.
I agree with you 100%. My partner works a trade and I’m college educated working in an office going to grad school. We’re an interracial couple but as someone who dated black men as a black woman I understand both sides of the argument. Statistics aside, just based on our experiences in our relationships and the black men black women relationships around us, black women are often either the sole bread winner or higher earning. If a black man is making more than a black women, he’s either working at a blue collar/tradesmen job or college educated. What no one is mentioning is the educational and economic gap and how there’s more black women getting 1st, 2nd and 3rd degrees then there are black men and black man are lacking behind severely other groups of men in trades. If I’m making more than my man, what’s the problem???? Women can be in a relationship and still be independent outside the relationship with their financials????? And we should ask the men who are earning less than their partners ‘you gonna level up to her level’ if he has an associate and she’s has her bachelors and masters, you mean to tell me he couldn’t go to a state college for the low and get some more degrees and experience???? You can never stop leveling up. My partner is planning on being an insurance agent so he’s working his trade as long as he can so he can become an expert and then he plans on continuing his schooling.
Well said
I agree with characters. You can see a lot of women marrying up, then get stucked with nonchalant men who will throw their money at them as a way to silence them, or parade them as trophies.
My question is, starting what figures is a male adult considered a man ? Mainland China is the prime example of where marrying up leads : women would rather be side chicks than marry a working men making less than her, with complete disregard of what's the man non monetary value. As expected, half of the mainland Chinese women can't marry, since the coveted men have at least 2 women to choose from.
Now, if a woman is dead set on marrying a richer man, they should be ready to remain single. Because according to mathematics, if women and men have equal pay and are evenly distributed on the social ladder, 50% of men and women will be bellow the average. Thus, no one can marry up without setting others to marry down.
Now, for the black men, they have work to do on they character and their non monetary values. Because those are values that can't be bought. I'm not going to talk about authorities actively seeking to punish and push back black men, since it's another issue and we can't deny the repression against black men is leagues more violent and blood-hungry than the repression on the (less physically strong) black female. Because black women will never be a threat to white men, it's a fact.
Secondly for black men, those who go big want the same women their white men peers cover : feminine housewives. And we know feminine means "distant from blackness" in USA. Which mean white passing, light skinned, eurocentric featured, and long slicked hair black women are the most likely to marry up... Sometimes at the cost of their own careers.
At the end, I will say black women should seek morales and uplifting mindset in their men. Because our mindsets are our drive to achieve big, and poor mindsets will destroy any given wealth.
Yep, Ralph Richard Banks wrote about it in his book "Is Marriage for White People"
If they are in the same tax bracket then its really not dating down. The issue I have with BW is that BW often speak from stereotypes and fantasies in particular when it comes to dating
Being a housewife is lonely it can be very isolating and it is a job that is not paid with material benefits. You do not get money for the labor that goes in to keeping a home clean, cooking and raising children if you are a housewife. It is a job, it is labor and it is not fairly compensated at all. There are plenty of stories of white women being very very dissatisfied with the housewife role. That was the whole point of 2nd wave feminism and Betty Fredian book the Feminine Mystique. Which was then criticized by bell hooks for focusing on middle and upper middle class white women and painting a full portrait to those who didn't have access/ability to hire help. Those who on top of wifely duties at home; had to work outside sometimes in others home and do twice the work.
@@NadiaPink I agree, being solely a housewife doesn’t sound ideal for me but to each it’s own. I’m only 24, been working since 16/17 and I’m already tired of going to a brick and mortar place of business, with pervy men on top of other things.
@@NadiaPink working from home is also draining and lonely and becomes more work because your family associates you being home as you having the capacity to do even more house work… while at work!
@@0331tate I see a lot of moms looking for WFH jobs so they can avoid daycare and to me that's a lot you are essentially working two full time jobs at the same time. WFH is still work that requires your energy
@Christie Brooks
On the flip side of that…once women flooded the workforce it increased the supply of workers. Which decreased the demand for employees. As the rule of economics go when the supply is greater than the demand…prices go down.
This is why wages have been stagnant since the 1970’s and haven’t been keeping up with inflation. Now a vast majority of families can’t live a middle-class lifestyle with just one income, and many women couldn’t be a stay at home mom even if they wanted to. That choice has been taken away from them.
@@NadiaPink
It’s also not the old days anymore. Most black folks lived in the country back in the old days and being a housewife was a full time job. They didn’t have washing machines, roombas, and all the modern convinces we have today. Many would also have to tend to the garden and feed the livestock on the property as well, and it took all day to cook a meal because everything was made from scratch.
In today’s advanced society housework is a snap…especially if you live with people who pick up behind themselves.
Saying black women are marrying down is dismissive to the conditions in the world they lived in. No one exists in a vacuum.
Saying black women have always worked hard in and out the home for little appreciation and with limited marriage options in the past, is more factual.
I always have to watch twice to absorb context and history. I love love love the fullness of your commentary!
I don't think bw are "encouraged" to date down, but bw are conditioned and *encouraged to be race loyal*. That's the set up. And when you look at the growth of bw to bm who they're told be race loyal to, BW date down. Black love is a marketed to BW. No other racial group promotes their love for each as "revolutionary" and in turn political. So based on the current social standing of the average BM, he's by large unsuitable for partnership/marriage. But society is still selling Black love to Black women. So yes, BW are encouraged to date down simply by the choices they have.
Plenty of minority ethnic groups advocate for intra-communal marriage. We just don't live in those communities and everyone gets sold on the weathliest aspects of any culture.
Who is telling bw to be race loyal?? Their parents? I think not. Some bw choose to only date bm
@@lemonaidebey6190 There are a large number of BM choosing to only date outside of the race.
Even if they don't date outside of the race, they have a very high preference for light skinned bw or mixed race women.
BM are not loyal to the black race. Black love is not emphasize to them.
So, it is very disingenuous to question who is pushing bw to be race loyal and to date and marry only bm.
Only BM benefit from being in the black community.
@@nmhoskins I'm going to keep asking who is actually pushing bw to be race loyal. If you don't have the answer don't respond
I get that we have to understand our history but black people are too stuck in the past. BW were slaves too and we were able be successful in western society so Ik it’s possible for BM too. It’s a victim mentality that keeps BM as a whole where they are at. It’s really that simple and BW need to stop making excuses for them or they’ll never change for better. It’s draining hearing all the trauma of our ancestors; if they were here I’m sure they wouldn’t want us to use their plight as an excuse to not be successful. They got us where we are and would want us to take advantage of the system to be better. IMO
I agree 💯
Whoa, that's a wild thing to say. Just cuz we're black doesn't mean we can't do white supremacys' work for them apparently. A victim complex?
Part of the reason bm haven't been able to gain access to the same things bw have is because they are and have been seen as more of a threat physically to white people. So they can't gain access to spaces the way we can. Bw are able to assimilate to a certain extent that bm cannot specifically because they are black men and therefore seen as more violent, dangerous ect. While bm women are presumed innocent (in comparison to bm, not white people as a whole)
If our ancestors were here I'm pretty sure they wouldn't agree with calling the present and historic subjugation of bm a victims complex.
We aren't the first ones having these conversations, you can find example of the people before us arguing against this exact rhetoric.
Racist institutions aren’t a things of the past. You can’t bootstrap your way out of racism. It’s also a bit of a misnomer that all black women are doing well, we still aren’t on par with our white counterparts. We really are leaning into the right-wing rhetoric these days, it’s getting scary.
BOOM 💣
Amen!!!!!!! This is the truth. Great we know the past now how have things been going in the last 20 years? That's the real question and I do see amongst family and friends struggle love with men who they essentially settled for to be married.
Historically African American women may not have married down, but modern day African American women are marrying down, and NOT because of making bad choices, rather because there is a shortage of economically attractive, responsible, marriage minded African American men.
You give a thorough history lesson of African American women's labor, household responsibilities, encouragement of education to earn more while simultaneously running their home, and the systemic reasons why African American men were low earners, lacked generational wealth, yet still were able to get married and have a family.
You didn't analyze how modern day African American men are NOT: marriage minded, are not starting businesses or building wealth for their families, not enrolling in universities at the same rate as their counterparts, or bettering themselves to be attractive mates.
And that's problematic.
Black American women, are starting businesses, getting advanced degrees, going to therapy, volunteering, traveling, moving to better neighborhoods, buying their own homes, immigrating (I'm an expat), to have a better quality of life.
Collectively, Black American men, are NOT economically, socially, emotionally, or spiritually doing the work to be attractive husbands, fathers, leaders, brothers, etc.
And for Black American women that continue to limit their dating options, absolutely marry down.
How: there are NOT enough Black American men who are marriage minded, middle class, come from generational wealth, who are committed to marry and provide for the majority of Black American women.
As for other communities of women who culturally and socially are raised to marry up, I have a unique perspective and experience.
I'm an expat and lived in quite a few places (Thailand, Israel, China, Singapore, Kazakhstan, Turkey, and a few others), plus I'm also Jewish.
Marriage in most of the developing world is about two families coming together, preserving wealth, succession of family owned businesses (small and large), maintaining status, and religion.
Boys are raised (lower class and wealthy), with the expectation to continue the family name, legacy, wealth, land/property, go to good schools, and provide. Fathers and other male family members are role models, are present, and provide (even if that means going overseas and sending back money to support their families). Men know their roles, and yes there is partriachy and favoritism.
But no family is encouraging their daughters to marry down. Even the most progressive families that give their daughters the best education: boarding school in the UK, introductions to work at top firms, she is expected to marry well. If not: marry a successful Western man that will bring status (extra passport, dowry, property), stay single, or marry into a family that is equal.
This is also true for Black male immigrants, especially Africans, who highly value education, marriage, and family. African men from the continent who make it to the US, are more culturally aware of what's expected of them once they complete their education and get a good job.
So your thesis is wrong: modern day Black American women collectively marry down, not by choice, but because there are not enough modern day African American men that are marriage minded and economically attractive as mates.
It's really a numbers game, and most don't want to BE better or compete to be better men.
Y’all are doing a lot. Like how do you twist history to then suggest the American-BM dating pool was better in the past? Then throw in a dash of xenophobia. This is a very narrow understanding of African American history.
PERFECTLY put, and my point EXACTLY. Black women DO marry/date down, not so much because they want to, but mainly because of their blind unreciprocated LOYALTY to black males who show their DISLOYALTY to Black women, by taking their wealth/riches to every other race of women, which leaves Black women with LESS opportunity/possibility of being with a black man of means, so Black woman have to SETTLE for LESS
@@jouelzy The fact that the people be on here literally twisting history, especially after educating people in such a CLEAR way, is something I will never understand. Ever
I appreciate all the feedback 😊
You clearly laid out facts. But the "math is not mathing" for African American women who are doing the work to have a higher quality of life, yet African American men are not doing the work....or being held accountable.
Either way, I really enjoy your channel 😊
I live abroad (in Serbia) and living my best life, so a lot of the challenges you talk about don't necessarily affect me. Just wanted to give my experience and perspective 😊
@@BlairCadetabc BW are consistently rate last in the dating game. What importance does having an advanced degree have when men may not find you attractive and don't necessarily value your degrees that much? For instance I am a strong chess player BUT, big BUT that is not a selling point to women. Most women could care less about that. Anyways what you said has been said to BW so many times, it is like talking to a brick wall.
The conversations I have heard about this topic were NOT referring to the past (pre-civil rights era). Most are referring to the present. The stats speak for themselves:
Black mothers are by far the most likely to be the primary economic support for their families, both because a higher percentage are single mothers and because when part of a married couple, they are more likely to earn as much as or more than their husbands.
There’s also the message that most mainstream media specifically movies push to black women. E.g The majority of romantic comedies in the mainstream in the last 20 years seem to encourage black women to marry and partner with men who makes less income and have low financial net worth than them at the time of their dating/marriage.
Right. I love Jouelzy but I can tell this will be us “remember slavery???” Type of video. We’re talking about modern day. For whatever reason, the modern BM can’t keep up with BW
maybe when tyler perry was hot that imagery was true? but those movies are barely around now
I am talking about modern day. Black mother stats are not the same for Black married women bc you have to account for single Black mothers. The push back to my point is considering about the past 20 years of movies so it’s not “people” it’s Tyler Perry.
Lol yes bc modern day live of African-Americans is so far removed from our history. The 1980s/90s have no impact on now.
@@Zikomo7 Were know that there is a number of systemic issues. Black women have managed to fight tooth and nail to work in spite of those, but not Black men. And they blame us for that, BTW. They blame us for their bad decisions. They blame us for their trouble. I'm surprised they don't blame us for slavery, but I think that is next. Bottom line, Black women have no choice but to work in the here and now while Black men. sit back and complain about what happened in the past. ALL of that affects ALL of us. Black women didn't escape the systemic situations unscathed. And as someone who worked in corporate America, it is only recently that Black women have been in the officeplace more often. With over 30 years in corporate America, there were many more Black men compared to Black women. Let's not disregard misogyny.
I can only speak from my forty years of experience. For a large part of my life I was a dedicated charismatic Christian. A religion largely ran by men. I know one of the messages often preached is how “the wife is the helpmate”. So many of the women including me always thought we should look beyond credit score, education, income, etc and as long as he’s working and talk a good game about his ambitions we the women need to take on the burden “helping” him achieve. I’ve seen so many of these women literally work themselves to the ground trying to be a “helpmate”. So yes I do believe BW have been encouraged to marry down especially in the churches.
And the "helpmate" got cheated on, beat and demeaned. The man couldn't even be faithful or loving, which were by the way Free!🤣
BW have indeed, historically married down if even the free things were NOT provided by the men.
@@abundance6484 Only 30% of black men are married, plus black women have a 50% divorce score, and I won't talk about the birth rate of single women.
But please, the gender war up.
AND STILL ARE TO THIS DAY!!!!
@@Amongero07 THAT DIVORCE RATE NEEDS TO BE HIRE. BW need to free themselves EXPEDITIOUSLY
@@huh5729 And who is forcing you to get married?
Who is forcing you to file for divorce?
Who is forcing you to have babies out of wedlock?
By the way, nearly 60% of black men are childless, your baby daddies are making 30%.
80% of the divorce are file by the women (you are the one who are breaking the household).
But you won't be free from men who have no power over you?
Why should we be lump in with your daddy issues and your bad dating choice?
What about you close your legs and chose better counterparts?
I also believe that the black church makes one believe that suffering is the norm and you staying in this abusive, unhealthy, unhappy marriage is a demonstration of your faith and impending reward. 'JOY COMES IM THE MORNING'.....the reality is, some did make poor decisions and they need to exit stage left, immediately.
No one is “making” anyone believe anything. Folks are CHOOSING to obey the Black church even though anyone w/ eyes- especially BW- can see that they gain nothing from following the Black church. It is the epitome of patriarchy so of course it encourages women to stay and suffer b/c the men ends up benefitting from the woman’s suffering. However, the woman is till making the choice to participate even though she knows it’s not helping her.
LOL this comment is so true but the last line made me laugh 'exit stage left, immediately' indeed
Someone: Murderers kill
Jouelzy: Murderers do not kill because there are systemic reasons surrounding them that put them in situations where they kill more often.
Someone: 🤨
-
I was honestly disappointed by this video. I really thought I was going to listen to something revolutionary and thought-provoking. You simply explain the historical reasons why BW have to “date down” (you can call it whatever, but the general understanding is that it is dating down when a woman dates a man who make less than her or dates a man who has lower social/economic capital).
How does this help BW TODAY who want to marry a provider? What solutions are you providing? Why are we expecting the same racist systems that put the BM down to all of a sudden help him? We’ve got to help ourselves the best way we can. Can you realistically say that BM have been doing that for themselves? And let’s not forget that BW have been experiencing these same systems alongside BM with a good helping of misogyny (in a society that benefits MEN).
Yes, I acknowledge racism. It’s real. Let’s be really real, though. BM can do better. And we all have a pretty good idea why they aren’t.
That analogy is stupid. Stay on track, I'll have captions up in a minute. I don't believe that marriage is beneficial. So I would encourage women at large to think outside of societal norms and define the life they want to live and what they need to fulfill that.
@@jouelzy Can you explain why the analogy is stupid? The sentiment I was trying to express was that you just explain why the status quo is what it is. You don’t actually say anything that suggests that the status quo isn’t actually the status quo. Maybe you should change your title to something along the lines of “why BW have to date down”. It will cause less confusion. It certainly confused me. This was a bait and switch on a very charged topic.
@@jouelzy I’m baffled!! Are black mothers still teaching their daughters that they should not expect any berks and benefits in a marriage?? How many more generations of BW and girls must be sacrificed at the alter of BM worship?? I must remember to give my black stepmother her roses for teaching me that marriage to a man must come with benefits. Being married to a man who has nothing to offer/a burden, is a birds game.
You're comparing not having a job to murder. Great comparison /s
If it's worth anything, I understood your example/analogy 🤷🏾♀️
I, personally, was not encouraged by either parent to marry down. I wasn't directly encouraged to marry at all. The language my parents used was always "IF you marry..." and "IF you have children..." My father did talk now and then about being a supportive partner but far more of his instruction to his daughters (he had 3) was centered around us being educated and skillful. Now my sisters have their own interpretations on this but for me, it developed into a mindset that my partner should be someone similar to me, i.e. a man that already knows how to care for himself and whatever business he has going on. So the sentiment that I see going around about how Black women should be willing to "build a man up" is just not in my programming. I'm not sure, like you said, who was taught to do that. I'd really like to know.
I get what you’re saying but ride or die culture is very real!
This is brilliant! Such a great historical framing of this issue.
This was SO good. Thank you for this perspective and historical lense!
I feel like bm actually shame bw when it comes to dating the most, but non blk ppl. I grew up in the hood and I would constantly have bm ridicule me for simply wanting a man who has a stable career, no kids and no felonies 😂
Tangentially related! I'd also suggest Manifest Domesticity as further reading to anyone who's interested in the connection between domesticity, white womanhood, white supremacy and colonization. These structures really don't seem productive for us to try and emulate.
Thanks for adding a historical lens to this conversation!
Sis! You DID the ancestors proud with this one **chefs kiss**🤌🏾
There may not have been a movement that has historically told black women to marry down but there is a movement that promotes black women having children outside of marriage and almost with anyone, which then leads to a life of struggle, which then leads to a woman having to potentially marry a man who can barely provide for himself but now is expected to provide for a family.
There aren’t enough marriageable men for black women in the community. Even if the black woman is single and childless, she still will have s hard time finding a partner that makes the same amount of money
What movement? Who is encouraging it?
As an older woman-its shocking how BD and husband are ASSUMED to be two separate men.
Like knock a few kids out between 15 and 20.
Raise them for 18 years.
Then have a white wedding at age 40.
Or HS bf gets you pregnant age 16 and strings you along so long that your granddaughter can be your flower girl at your white wedding.
@@deesdees324 Then marry out.
A man is a man is a man.
Judge him on his character, love, and loyalty -not his skin.
Would that be the same movement that promotes Black men to sire children outside of marriage with just about anyone, and then refuse to financially AND emotionally support those children thus leading the mother(s) to a life of struggle which then leads them to marry or couple with men who aren't established enough to take on another man's responsibility?
If black women keep marrying down they’re going to stay at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. We have to think about the future of our children!!
On average black men make more than black women in America so they’d just be dragging down their next partner
@@34uzz78no that’s absolutely not true. You’re the least employed, least educated, and most homeless so how are you making more money?
So what’s happening is that there’s a very fine line between telling black women to date down & telling them to build a man up support & stick beside him the focus & encouragement should be on women’s own success & happiness & waiting to meet someone that feels in alignment has character & values & someone on their level or higher
I just discovered your channel and it’s so refreshing! I’ve been binge watching for the last 3 days! Love the discussions ❤
Love her!!!
@@SheenaTA Me too!! Love love love! ❤️ It’s honestly so beautiful hearing a highly intelligent black woman verbalize all the things that are in my head. She’s speaks so eloquently and I’m here for it!!! ❤️❤️
I love watching and listening to your commentary on social issues and it's intersections. It keeps me on my toes and to continue to not take things at face value and continue to question the world around me.
Listening and learning. Thank you for putting in the work to help educate people who want to stay informed.
Naw, you really snapped on this one. This video is excellent. So many talking points but my favorite is the reminder that our mother, grandmothers, greats, etc were resisting everyday, in every way. I love the women I descend from and they won’t make me feel otherwise.
As a nanny to white children, white parents will THROW their kids at me ‘cause they do NOT want to take care of their kids. Man, I got stories for DAYS!
Thank you for new perspectives
I appreciate this take so much. Oftentimes it’s easier for disenfranchised people to blame one another rather than the larger system at play.
You put it in proper context. Very well researched.
Every time I listen to your video essays, I’m reminded of your genius Jouelzy. So glad to know you are in graduate school 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I love the way this information was presented. Most of the things presented I didn't think about when looking at the history of black dating.
My grandmother married up, he was a Chiropractor and owned businesses.
However, I think she was Queer and the relationship crumbled. My family always just said marriage/relationships should be a lateral move at the least. My family romanticizes color and features more so than social status. I think those are other bargaining measures not mentioned.
I over heard my great relatives basically talk about picking a guy with green eyes and a basic job over a hard working man of a darker complexion unless it would equate to Leasure. This maybe is influenced by my relatives being midwestern and holding jobs that’s they wouldn’t have been allowed if they were in the south.
Thanks for delving in to the actual history that has been replaced in the youtube-podcast community by some romanticized notion that there ever was a time where the "Black-Cleavers" existed in any majority in this country. Black women were brough here to work and produce and there has never been a time where that was not the reality of most.
I had a conversation with my Granny over the weekend (she's 86) and she was telling me how in her day many Black parents had their daughters married off as a way of "saving them from a hard life" since they didn't have many options.
Most races and cultures saw daughters as a burden to be unloaded onto another man as soon as they could
Great conversation ❤ I love how in depth you went with the conversation! Your absolutely right on everything you said!
Your commentary is very provocative. We can keep having these conversations. I can appreciate how you use history to show how some of these things evolve.
Loved this discussion and your analysis 🙏🏾
This was an incredible piece, absolutely amazing! I hope you start an in-person "sister chat" in the Charlotte area. I will be the first to join!! There is something powerful that happens when educated black women are in the same spaces. This was very beautifully put together Jouelzy.
This is going to be my favorite video by far and I will have to rewatch it.
Very fair argument. Another clear example of when we fail to not only learn but scrutinize and analyze history, we end up with very skewed perspectives of ourselves.
Love this video and introducing this discussion! I remember doing my senior year thesis on interracial marriage. While that topic focused on the literal outlawing, marginalization and prevention of integrated communities, it also shed a lot of light in how American society consistently isolated each ethnic group to maintain social and economic control of minorities. I highly recommend researching the history of interracial marriage in America, as it really shed light in the historical mile stone of Loving vs Virginia, as well as the social, cultural and economic integration of ethnic minorities into white spaces through history!
Never thought of BW dating in this way. You dropped some real gems & helped frame the systems that have led to the current state of relationships for BW. It is not as simple as “dating down.”
Yes they are. The data says they are and their children growing up without fathers in poor schools says they are too. Why are we trying to save bm from this reality? It’s as bad as we think it is, if not worse.
I can’t lie I started this video apprehensive due to the title, however, I was properly educated and informed by Jouelzy! Thanks for sharing your knowledge lots of things discussed I was unaware of and I have a different view on marriage in the Black community and a slight difference in how I view BM
Honestly as a Black man in my 30s great career etc
Here's the issue that I see. Professional black women and black men don't interact with each other enough socially. Additionally, both groups hold so much built up resentment we come with preconceived notions of how the other part is "going to act" etc. I think there should be socials setup or random blind dates of successful childless black folks
You should create that space, that's a great idea
Now that’s what needs to happen, for real!
They have that. The men will entertain the women just because they're there, and then show up to a huge event with a woman from another racial group.
@@Heyu7her3😯😂
@@refilwelephoto4154 this was pretty incoherent, and the fact that we don't interact socially was clearly stated as the actual problem. So essentially you agree with what I'm saying, however you felt the need to argue because of some personal experience you've had. Of course black men will date those "snow bunnies" if that's who interacts with them socially
Thank you for these points! We made due with the choices we had available. Choice isn’t “choice” when you have limited options and need to survive. I need people to stop blaming individuals for systemic problems.
No woman “needs to survive” by choosing low quality males to partner with just because he’s black. They have a choice to find better males to partner with even if that means looking outside their race, they just choose not to. It’s that simple.
This was so insightful! This was my first time watching but I am definitely subscribing!
Love the hair Jouelzy!
There are a lot of Black people (men and women) who are coming of age now and were raised by single mothers who may have struggled financially. These are people that if you ask what they lacked in childhood, their answer will likely be money, a father, or both. I think that as a result, people tie their poverty to not having a father/husband. Though this is oftentimes true, somehow a father/husband's ENTIRE value is now being reduced to their income.
There are now lots of Black women who believe a man that is not wealthy is worthless. There are just as many men who believe that as long as they make over a certain amount, they will be promised a woman that they can treat however they want. There is also a strange culture of transactionality in dating now where every date seems to be a "quid pro quo" instead of actually getting to know a person and their character. Relationships are built on love, support and willingness to make it work.
Aside: The Black gender wars online are getting extremely toxic lately. If you combine that with the Black anti-LGBT controversies (Chappelle/DaBaby), Diaspora wars and the interracial dating propaganda on Tiktok--you can't tell me there isn't an agenda infiltrating Black online spaces to drive us all apart.
They want to make sure we never mobilize and protest again like we did in June 2020 and many times before. #StayWoke
This is very well worded!
I said this to my mom the other day. They is definitely an agenda. You don't notice commercials now a days with a Wm/Bw or a ww/BM? They are doing everything in there power to keep up start and at each other's throats.
Your comment should be pinned! It’s the only one that really answers any of this 🖤
It’s always been the agenda, I remember an article my mother talked about from an Ebony magazine when I was in elementary school. They interview a white government agent who stated that to hurt the black community separate the black community in any capacity and have them at each other’s throats so they can’t band together to fix structural problems. It’s basically the “Art of War” being played out.
Same ol’ tricks. When will we learn! ❤🖤💚
I think the people who get what you are saying here , get it. Others may be "married" to the opinions that may not be factual , but they are just committed to their beliefs. Great video 💜
Exactly! She speaks facts.
@Mrs. Accountability 👏🏾👏🏾💯💯
@Mrs. Accountability yeah. People like her and yourself definitely hate facts. All she did was state the reason why black women indeed date down.
You always got me thinking. Excellent work!
The gems you dropped in this child I never thought about blk women and how we've always worked like it was a totally light bulb moment for me when we're we ever in the position to be "home makers" wipe that fantasy from the my mind. The unlearning you have to do of the lies that's been taught. Much gratitude sistar 🖤🖤🖤🖤
I appreciate your commentary Jouelzy!
Great topic as always!
wow. ty sm for the follow up vid. i get it now. honestly the first minute had me go "oop".
Excellent video Jouelzy!
Thank you for this wonderful video Jouelzy, that we all should be educated on. Like, what black women endured back then was insane, and the way its been handled is disgusting, clearly. Just putting this video together is what I needed pursuing education in history, in general terms. Jouelzy always comes through
I love the history teaching!!
Your videos always pop!!!! Like sis you are such a gem 💎! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and research.
Lmao their squandering our money on booze and cheeky things! 🤣🤣🤣 I dunno why but that made me fall out
Thank you jouelzy for all that you do.❤
Great content!
I absolutely LOVE your thought provoking content!!
Omg obsessed with your look in this vid! The hair and top. Awesome 👏🏿
Such a wonderful video. You need to be a guest on one of those podcasts that discusses this topic
This was a mf Word! Especially about how the home was structured back in the day with Mahalia cooking and cleaning and raising white people children and how their lifestyle was seemingly successful as a result. As a single mother, with very little support, that passage alone made me feel seen because I put undue pressure on myself to “make it” (how others are making it) in a society not structured to support such a lifestyle for a Black woman.
Fantastic discourse. This video is like a PHD essay! Thank you
Thanks you for sharing
Love your videos Jouelzy 🙌🏾
Princess and the frog black women cheering on Tiana🐸 for being a working princess.😒
I think that is one way you can look at it. I saw it as a young woman who had dreams of owning her own restaurant (the best in NOLA) and rather than her would-be husband telling her no, he supported her ambition wanting to finance it.
Honestly all of the newer princesses are “working” princesses.
Oxymoronic
@@lisaburke7506yes because her owning a restaurant would benefit him financially.
Beyoncé song on her Renaissance album “America Has A Problem” definitely highlights the crack epidemic/era in the 80s and it kind of glamorizes it in the song but the title says that it’s a “problem” it’s so interesting how blk ppl are so eager and willing to dismiss trauma or gloss over it like it never happened or doesn’t affect and still affect ppls lives and the trajectory of our issues and community….. 🙃 cause and effect!
We have to put the crack epidemic fault where it goes because for TOO LONG the fault has been misplaced! Black men are at fault because THEY CHOSE to put a price tag on fatal drugs and sell it to their community! Just because Da White Man made the drugs accessible to them does not mean they HAD to sell it! Da White Man didn’t make careers out of selling crack to other black men, women and children, BLACK MEN DID! Da White Man wasn’t posted up on the block and around the community selling crack THE BLACK MAN WAS!
Families were ruined and people were overdosing and losing their minds ALL so black men could afford the white man’s luxuries!
Black men didn’t use that drug money to build and fund a better Black community!!! Black men didn’t use that drug money to build hospitals and rehabilitation centers to heal the community THEY DESTROYED BY SELLING DRUGS GIVEN TO THEM BY THEIR ENEMY! NO! It was all about individual gain and being able to look down and say “I’m doing better than the rest of you NIGGAS because I have this expensive car, clothes, and jewelry that Da White Man produced!”
Black men had a CHOICE to discard those drugs, ESPECIALLY ONCE THEY SAW THE NEGATIVE RESULTS OF CONSUMING IT, and THEY STILL CHOSE to side with white men to destroy their own community! They made and make it so easy for white men to oppress Us, it’s comical at this point! 🤷🏾♀️
Excellent commentary!! Black women have always worked outside of the home. Even now, many White women use the services of nannies and maids who are mostly POCs. It’s interesting how some things never change.
I just realized a beef I had with the “Don’t Worry Darling” movie. Black domestic workers are not present and the white wives do it all, it’s presented to induce sympathy but is historically inaccurate.
This is the most interesting, eye opening, relevant african american history lesson I've received in a longggg time. Sending this to family and friends.
Everyday I am challenged on believing if marriage is even healthy for me as a black woman at all 😅
Love this! I’m just a fan of your content! Came away with with so much to think on. Oh! And I had no idea Rebecca was Black/Biracial! I read Black Sun on a whim last year and was gobsmacked! Gonna start Fevered Dream soon!
And another thing, the part about marrying down. I have a family member who has been married to his wife for like 7 years right. When they first got married she was in college and working at pizza hut while he was working as a plumber at a high faluting million dollar company. They bought a house on those incomes. Fast forward to today he has his own plumbing company and she is a high faluting independent social worker. On paper she makes 100k and he makes 70k, trying to prevent from paying a lot of taxes lol, so did she marry down now that she makes more money than him? People are going to come to this video and make nonmerital comments but ain't nobody telling black women to go marry pookie and live in the hood. We can have a whole nother conversation about how society tries to tell Black women that they don't deserve love after dealing with pookies and having babies but that's not this video.
Technically, she did financially and educationally because she has more finances and more education. Now, that aside they seem to be fine. What people mean by "marrying down" is not really up for discussion if collectively the people who aren't doing well financially or academically also have issues with character, values, and other important qualities.
Please date your best option no matter the race ❤️. Feel provided for AND loved at the same time.
I think this video was a bit biased and black love leaning. We know and understand why the black community doesn’t have money doesn’t mean we have to stand by it. Let them build themselves and then come back to get you IF you’re still available.
Amen! There's a difference between marrying someone earning less and marrying someone shiftless.
Maybe cause I'm a socialist and that's why this idea of 'marrying down' irks me so much. There's so much more in finding a suitable partner than income. Further, I'm glad I can earn enough to maintain myself and don't NEED to determine a partner's worth primarily by his ability to feed and clothe me for the rest of my life.
Wanting to rely on a partner financially is not the chief concern. You can be a socialist but if you live in the US, you live under capitalism. Cohabitation and child baring with a person that can't "hold their own" financially quickly becomes a burden, one that can ruin, or at best damage, your means of income AND relationship. "Marrying down" for a woman under capitalism has many dangers. Most of us aren't looking to be taken care of, we're looking to merely not be leeched off of.
@@monimuppet6132 FACTS! Many of these males are parasites and add zero value. Actually, many tend to make life worse.
But what if you both want children?
Black women are the only group of women who don’t care about money. You see where this gets you and you keep doing it.
I have learned sooo much from this video 🙌🏾😩♥️
The black community has failed BW and it’s up to them to figure out what to do about it.
I think they played a part by choosing government assistance and public housing over the black family but this all points back to ws
Yes they do. At least, if they do get married.
Great segment 💐. It's also worth adding that a lot of folks don't have the political understanding to have these nuanced conversations - which also encourages anti-Black discourse/sentiments. More times than not, they also don't have the time privilege to read these materials nor are they surrounded by folks who have such understandings (although, I think a number of our elders are a great canon of knowledge re: historical events etc). This is the very reason channels like yours are crucial.
This is true!!
Exactly
I totally agree with your point of view of women of other societies or backgrounds having a veneer of relationship success with their partners. My husband is of Taiwanese decent and his mother has been marred 3 times, divorced twice. The stories she tells us about the abuse she experienced at the hands of my husbands father is unfathomable. They ran a Chinese restaurant together and she was almost taken to the brink of suicide while with this man. And that’s just my glimpse into a different community through way of my partnership.
This was a good topic and I am so happy you decided to discuss it as it is a repeating topic among my friend group of women. Black women in my circle refuse to marry Black men because they believe the man should be the bread winner in the family A.K.A making more money than them. This can't be far from the truth because Black Girl Magic is real and we are winning - don't get me wrong, I know some women would say being strong is harmful to the ego because of the people pleasing narrative it could potentially represent (i.e., I do this because it make you happy). The reality is, we are the fastest growing group of people embarking on entrepreneur endeavors, who are successful. If Black people understood marriage, they would realize there is no such thing as 50/50. Some days you may be expected to lead 100% and other days your partner got you when you don't have 100% to give. Regardless, if it's mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually or financially, your partner should do their part to make sure the family unit is healthy and whole. If you take care of your partner and your partner take care of you, no one should go without unmet needs because marriage is a collaborative effort.
Black women in your circle are wise. You are the opposite of wise.
@@canesugar911 and you my dear, is the opposite of mature.
@@tenille2529 atleast I'm not being hustled. 🤷♂️
@@canesugar911 you look at the Black man the same way as the majority. I happened to love them because I have Black male children, so for me it goes a little bit deeper than being “hustle”. I understand and overstand the historical trauma they are up against.
@@tenille2529 i see the black man for what he truly is and the majorities perception of the black man is not wrong. That is the whole and honest truth that people like you and the black man choose to be delusional towards. Having black boys is more reason why you should be get out of that delusional and victim mindset if not they'll end up being a statistic. I seriously feel for your black daughters, they are going to suffer because of you and the black men in their lives.
Black men aren't the only ones with trauma. Black women were on the plantation with black males. But black women actually had it worse because they had to on top of their slave duties, carry out domestic duties and face sexual 4saault from both black and white men. They have carried this community on their backs whilst being abused and degraded by the very community they sacrifice for. In spite of this, they manage to make something out of themselves a patriarchal society. So miss me with that whole "black men" trauma BS. It's old and tired.
PTL Jouelzy…excellent; I applaud your sharing. I am subscribing today. I agree it’s offensive; I am much older than you. I now understand more about how poorly black women have been judged and treated 💯💌!
Excellent analysis!! What a relief to hear this discussed in a intelligent manner as opposed the rhetoric that is designed to defame the character of both Black men and Black women. You put it in its proper context by explaining the historical racism which includes many road blocks thrown in the way to impede economic progress amongst Black people. I will not say names but I have had to unsubscribe from a few Black women who sound like racist dipped in chocolate because the way they talk about Black men as if they were just born with something inherently wrong with them ignoring the systemic racism and ignoring how they have been brainwashed by media images and you have Black men bashing Black women as well. Anyways it is too toxic so I stop listening to them. You and a few others are the only ones I will listen to on this issue. Excellent job you are a great researcher
I understand that most of these issues are coming from the system; however, what do we do as black women? Do we bite our tongue and continue to show grace to black men, in the hopes that our struggle will encourage the next generation to do better? OR do we focus on our own happiness, whatever that looks like, but continue to help black men as much as we can without letting it in to our personal lives.
You do whatever works best for you. You can evolve your personal politics. Reaffirm the other relationships outside of intimate partnerships so a partner isn't a big disruption. You can build whatever life you want and then decide how you communally engage with Black men. I personally think BM should be helping BM -- that ain't my role but I won't engage in bigotry against them.
Focus n yourself. These me see the problem they just don't care because they know they Women are not going anywhere
@@mikasjewels5772 I didn't read that....confirmation bias and victim complex much?..
@@lemonaidebey6190 BW do not have to be mules for BM and the black community. I hope more BW divest in order to live a happier life.
You should become politically educated and overthrow the capitalist system which causes all the pain in the first place. BM must revolt too. Individualism is not the answer; we must work as a collective.