Bachmann Spectrum
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- Опубліковано 18 січ 2021
- We are pulling out all our logging equipment, this week we are testing our 3-foot gauge Bachmann Spectrum 36 ton Shay.
The Bachmann Spectrum Shay is a great looking little model, HOWEVER, the first ones made had major issues with their gearboxes. Take a look and see how to spot these issues.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
The Shay locomotive was the most widely used geared steam locomotive. The locomotives were built to the patents of Ephraim Shay, who has been credited with the popularization of the concept of a geared steam locomotive. Although the design of Ephraim Shay's early locomotives differed from later ones, there is a clear line of development that joins all Shays.
Ephraim Shay (1839-1916), was a schoolteacher, a clerk in a Civil War hospital, a civil servant, a logger, a merchant, a railway owner, and an inventor who lived in Michigan.
In the 1860s he became a logger and wanted a better way to move logs to the mill than on winter snow sleds. He built his own tramway in 1875, on 2 ft 2 in (660 mm) gauge track on wooden ties, allowing him to log all year round. Two years later he developed the idea of having an engine sit on a flat car with a boiler, gears, and trucks that could pivot. The first Shay only had two cylinders and the front truck was mounted normally while the rear truck was fixed to the frame and could not swivel, much as normal drivers on a locomotive. He mounted the 3-foot (914 mm) diameter by 5-foot (1,524 mm) tall boiler centered on the car with the water tank over the front trucks and with an engine supplied by William Crippen mounted crossways over the rear trucks. Shay experimented first with a chain drive from the engine through the floor to the truck axle. It is not known if he powered one or both axles, but he soon found that the chain drive was not practical and he next tried a belt drive. It did not take long for the idea to become popular.
Shay applied for and was issued a patent for the basic idea in 1881.[1] He patented an improved geared truck for his engines in 1901.[2]
Lima Locomotive Works of Lima, Ohio built Ephraim Shay's prototype engine in 1880.[3] Prior to 1884, all the Shays Lima produced weighed 10 to 15 short tons (8.9 to 13.4 long tons; 9.1 to 13.6 t) each and had just two cylinders. In 1884, they delivered the first 3-cylinder (Class B) Shay, and in 1885, the first 3-truck (Class C) Shay. The success of the Shay led to a major expansion and reorganization of the Lima company.[4] When Lima first received the Shay idea it was not impressed, until John Carnes influenced the company to use the idea, resulting in the classic Shay design.
After the basic Shay patents had expired, Willamette Iron and Steel Works of Portland, Oregon, manufactured Shay-type locomotives, and in 1927, Willamette obtained a patent on an improved geared truck for such locomotives.[8] These became known as Willamette locomotives. Since "Shay" was a trademark of Lima, strictly speaking it is incorrect to refer to locomotives manufactured by Willamette and others as "Shays". Six Shay Patent locomotives, known as Henderson-style Shays, were built by the Michigan Iron Works in Cadillac, Michigan. - Авто та транспорт
Another cute locomotive.
HI! Right? What a "cute" locomotive.
@@ToyManTelevision a small one: (a dinky) one; a odd looking one
The locomotive that I fell in love with.
Love the shay!
You have me thinking now, I have one of these new in the box where it has sat for the last 5 years or more with the idea like yourself to build a logging spur, but like all best laid plans of mice and men it has never happened. keep up the good informative content.
HI. And they come up on eBay all the time... Never run. Should be a pluss but in this case could spel trouble.
I never find your videos boring. Excellent explanations.
Hi and thanks!!!
My two favorite locomotives are the big boy and two truck Shays, I'm looking forward to Sunday's show and a future video of this Shay running
Keep up the great work and stay safe
Rickb aka plasticbutcher
Hi Rick. I agree with your two favs. Although the C-16.... ANYWAY. The two truck shay. The smaler the better. even 2 foot gauge. Just love them!
I, unfortunately, have one of those early Shays and it was only run at Christmas around the tree. The rest of the year it was on display. Several years ago that gear failed. I checked with the hobby shop where it was purchased and I got the you must have done something wrong song. I dismantled the truck and the gear was completely split into. Still no help from Bachmann except, send it to us and we will fix it for lots of my money. I put it back on display and that is where it is now. But your video has given me hope. I will pull that truck again and try super glue or gorilla glue or some other glue and, hopefully, get my Shay running again. Thanks for the video and I'd like ask your subscribers if they have had this problem and made a successful repair.
The trick is the baking soda and thin glue. AND if the gear is off, may be really hard to get it to work. BEST fix is 250 on eBay for new trucks.. Sadly
@@ToyManTelevision If I can't fix it with baking soda and super glue it will be a permanent display piece. I am a long time TMT viewer and I'm happy to find a possible fix for my Shay. Keep up the good work.
Probably the most common failure in any scale is the use of nylon gears. Not just in model trains. I fixed hundreds of audio CD changers because of the same problem. Good explaination!
Thanks!!! Not sure why this model is more prone to fail, but they will ALL do it. Brass gears.... Thats not kust better, its really the only wat to make it work. All The new Bachmann have that.
@@ToyManTelevision it could be contributing factors like lubricant attacking the nylon over time. Or the stress of the torque
II had heard that the HO Climax had the same problems and it was a huge pain fixing them.
I've been looking forward to this set of videos. Logging railroads are a super neat way to freelance, because almost anything goes.
Great video and great info too. ;-)
Yes they sure did. It was replaced out of warranty but it did cost me about half the price of a new one.
@@bigwoz78 I knew someone with your last name in high school, (1960'S) Are you from Cleveland, Ohio?
@@robertweldon7909 no, went to school near Chicago,
@@bigwoz78 How about realated to "The Waz?" Steve Wozniak. If so hit him up for a place in his will. Perhaps a billion or so..
@@ToyManTelevision man I wish, that would be wonderful. Imagine the layout I could build with that kind of money. Lol
i have ely thomas no. 6, and its a really nice engine. for it's age, it looked almost brand new when i got it.
As of now I’m planning to keep all of my engines as Ely Thomas
Love your Shay, one of my favorite trains. Boy, Im glad I watched this, that is a shame about the gears. As always stay safe and healthy! ❤️
Great video and thanks for the info on the gears!
Check Ben's coment above. More information on that.
Nice engine 2 truck shays are my favorite type of Shay
Very interesting
thanks!
IT IS A VERY CUTE LOCOMOTIVE FORSURE VERY INTERESTING AND INFORMATIVE THANK YOU BOTH AGAIN FOR YOUR VIDEO AND SCREWING AROUND TIME WITH YOUR SUBSCRIBERS ALWAYS GOOD. THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS VIDEO AND YOUR COLLECTION VERY COOL JIM KAMMERER OF PHILADELPHIA PA THANK YOU BOTH AGAIN 😷😷🚂🚂👍👍
Thank you for the vid. I got a gen 1 for x mas way back in the 90's. I upgraded the trucks and all works fine.
It’s worth doing even if you need to buy the 250 bucks trucks.
Well this video is 👍! I’m actually excited because just before I hit play I was on the phone with Charles Ro and they have finished my Lionel 2055 Hudson! She was in for a gear issue too! They will be shipping out as soon as they can! Maybe by the weekend I’ll be watching her roll along!
Wish they ALL would STOP using plastic gears. Geeze...
Toy Man Television actually my gears are metal... I don’t know if God had invented plastic by the early 50’s! ;)
It is a neat engine! The Shays aren't my favorite, but they still rank on my list of locomotives that I like.
Great Locomotive, would love to have one someday! Thanks for sharing the information sir. Great channel guys, really appreciate the interaction between you two. Someday I will get caught up on your back content then maybe I can come out from California and visit your area. My brother just rode his bike on Antelope Island recently.
Hi Love the island! Weird and beautiful. Dont go near the bison!
@@ToyManTelevision Yeah, he said that he cut his ride shorter than he wanted because of the bison.
That’s an absolute beautiful locomotive 🚂 and I would display “queen” it over $250 fix that somehow I would have the thing doing the electric slide 🥴 I love the backstory with the pictures of the subject running... I recently bid on (and lost 😞) a bid for the Galloping Goose #5 over on eBay, but I am determined to get one for a future layout or for display (queen 🤷🏻♂️) thanks again for another awesome video, be safe and happy railroading ❤️
Keep bidding!! It will happen!! I’ve never run any of these large scale. Well the LGBs on my old railroad, but I have like 30 new ones. Well new as in post 1997 or so... and never run..
Nice locomotive! Its a shame that the first run had the axle problems but hey at least they still make replacement parts! Take care!
I wish they would make new locomotives. On30 and large scale. BUT they have the same problem the model induestry has had for 50 years. Head for the cheep labor.. first Japan.. Then Korea. Then China. But soon the workers want a real wage. So to make models in Japan today would be twice as much as the US. Koera about the same. And in the north of China now on par with much of the US. Some are moving to the south of China. But China thinks they want to start seending this work to Africa. Africa??
@@ToyManTelevision Wow! Never knew that! Moving to Africa! Bachmann would do it to make stuff cheap. Have a nice day!
@@ToyManTelevision They should keep it in China, that’s were all of the people who know how to make the models
Getting close to 50,000🚂🚂
I managed to get a "broken" one of these at a local train store, box and all, for only $100. The motors still functioned but one of the connecting rods was snapped at the base and there were signs the previous owner already tried both blue and plastic cement to fix it to no avail. If I can get the whole piston and rod mechanism (Sold as a part on the Bachmann catalog) then I think it would have been an amazing purchase. If anything, I suppose I could make a small diorama of it being in the shop getting repaired.
Another common problem. We should have mentoned it. If the loco derails and one of the trucks twists sidwise and the power is stil on, the side shafts can jamb and bend stuff.
Beautiful engine, wish they had made a three-truck version - WSLC #15
They did! Three weeks from now.
Ely-Thomas #5 resides in Green Bay WI, although there is not too much left to look at. I photographed about every inch of it last summer
WOW!! Love to see it. Green Bay? sea it? I digress. I hear its great in the summer. I think summer is the second week in July there? Id still brave the snow to watch a footmall game. And check out the locomotive..
Nice locomotive. I like Shay, but they weren't exported to Europe, therefore I cannot have a model of it! But a narrow gauge Mallet would be also cool.
I'd love a G scale Shay, but living in New Zealand, probably very few (if any ), made their way down here.
On a more positive note - re the gear issue.
I am a manufacturing jeweller by trade, and know a couple of retired gents that were clock and watch repairers.
Might hit them up (if I can find a Loco ), and see if they can make me new gears - guessing, not too different from making gears for an old clock being restored.
Or find the remade trucks. $250 on eBay. And if you get a early shay with bad gears perhaps $150. And shipping down under! So add like 1000 for that!! Ok not really. But you can ge them.
I wonder why Bachmann did not use Delrin. Seems like that would have been a better choice, but I am not an expert in organic chemistry...
No idea. But so many companies use nylon. So I guess it can work. But not this time.
There is one other small issue ive found with the ho shays. Its been an issue for so long its become a non-issue. The so-called "o rings" . They r rubber rings that bachmann used to connect the dogbone shaft running to the trucks. Being rubber, they wear out and break. Longtime bachmann shay owners know to keep a few extra "o rings" around cuz u WILL need them
Didn't know!! Thanks!!
I always wondered why bachmann always had g scale shay trucks in their catalog
Bachman had replacement trucks for the Shay's, don't know if the still do, put a set on mine even though the first ones had not failed. They were not free, had to buy them.
Nope. But they are around. $250 on eBay
Hi - just came across your reply whilst searching for anyone who's 'upgraded' the trucks on this Shay model. I've purchased a replacement set (#88999) from Bachmann and am currently changing the old original trucks to these new ones - only problem is that the new top plate doesn't seem to fit onto the old beam on the chassis, looks like it's very slightly too narrow a hole to fit over the centre circular boss - did you have this problem as well? Any info - warmly appreciated! Thanks - Rob
Bob, replaced mine several years ago and I don't recall having any problems with the fit, the only issue that I had was that I got the wires mixed up and the front truck would run forward and the rear truck ran backwards, had to open it back up and fix the wires.
Just a thought, but with your knowledge and casting capabilities would it be possible to make a casting of the gear before it gets damaged? May also beable to help others out with having a common problem.
I cant get them exact. Really needs to be machined brass. NSL make them for many of these locomotives. But not an easy instal.
I have several HOn30 Mini Trains and the gears split on them.
Sad but a comon problem. WHY? This was a build many companies used. BUt at some point they had to know how bad it was.
I had to replace my outside frame consolidation nylon gear.... Same failure. I got a replacement brass gear from bachman.
I live in fear.... Have one of those... never run.
@@ToyManTelevision it's not to bad to fix....lost of little screws and suspension springs that easily be lost. But the job itself is not too bad.
@@ToyManTelevision BTW the gear is on the shaft on the replacement part. They sell a " kit " for the Outside frame Consolidation Locomotive.
I believe it is a slightly different problem. Mine broke when it derailed but still had power to the motors, via the tender. With the motors wanting to turn the driving wheels but the wheels off the rail the additional load broke the gear. I got a replacement/improved gear from Buchanan and it has worked fine since.
You look like you just got Goosed! :-)
Hi tom. Yup. Goosed. For Christmas 🎄
I bought the first generation Shay in On30 and have never run it. When the gear problem became known, I sent for a solution but got only a little bag of stuff. I have no idea where the little bag is in my workshop but the Shay will be a static display.
Sad... Northwest Short Line makes the best fix... BUT unless you are a machinest.... So many just sit. Sucks they made them like this. And its not a "china" isue. This happen when Bachmann was a US company building in China. After the company was taken over by China they fixed the problems.. at twice the price too.
o-no, my shay has the wood side, but the rear light is on the cab, can't tell if it has the bad gears or not. its on a shelf waiting for a track to be laid oneday
Are the trucks metal or plastic? The bad ones are all plastic. But half of the plastic ones are better. Still not great but better. No idea how to tell the difference between the first run and second run of plastic. The ones sent back were given the metal trucks.
@@ToyManTelevision took mine apart last night and sure enough it's nylon. And cracked, the gear just slid right off the splines. Looks easier to replace the gear than the trucks.
Dale,
Do you have any track running pass that curve part of the layout you and Karen worked on painting the backdrop for about a month.
I would love to see a pic run pass what you guys have gotten done in that section.
Track ends about 4 feet into that area. So far.... Thats were we are building the loco shops. But I got "side tracked" by the logging railroad. But soon we will be running trains over there.
This is really cool, I wonder if you can not just 3d print the gears to make replacement parts
You could. BUt the repair is tricky. Need to take the wheels off the axles. NWS makes brass gears for these. But eveen more of a problem. Take the trucks appart, wheels off, turn the splines off of the axles, place the gears with a set screw... Good greef....
I have printed prototype gears for work, and was surprised at how well they held up and how much torque I could put through them. Looks like I may have one of the bad shays too, so I may have to end up trying it. Mine sits on a shelf for now while I wait for retirement.
@@dntower85 let me know when you do!!
@@dntower85 let me know when you do!!
@@ToyManTelevision ok cool and thank you I understand, I understand.
the first generation also had plastic trucks, which get brittle over time and fall apart. If you haven't replaced them with the die-cast metal trucks, you will want to do that. I've done mine and a couple others' as well. And they don't give those motor trucks away either!!
I see them on eBay all the time for $250. Not cheep. You can get this locomotive for about that. But always the early one. So when I see that I just figure its really $500.
Hi Ben - just came across your reply whilst searching for anyone who's 'upgraded' the trucks on this Shay model. I've purchased a replacement set (#88999) from Bachmann and am currently changing the old original trucks to these new ones - only problem is that the new top plate doesn't seem to fit onto the old beam on the chassis, looks like it's very slightly too narrow a hole to fit over the centre circular boss - did you have this problem as well? Any info - warmly appreciated! Thanks - Rob
The truck frames on the early model also disintegrated because they were made from regrind plastic.
So now I’m wondering if mine has replacement trucks on it as they are metal. Or did they change to metal trucks halfway through that production run? But I’m beginning to think at some point mine were replaced before I bought it
@@ToyManTelevision You could be right there. I can't exactly recall now but I thought that the metal framed replacement trucks came out after the first 36 ton version was produced. I know many people had the trucks crumble in their fingers. I have a new one stashed and the trucks are perfect but I guess once they get out in the elements they will eventually deteriorate therefore I also have a set of metal replacement trucks at hand.
Do you have a diagram of your loging layout that your building? It would be nice to see it if you do?
Nope. Not much to it. Single track about 25 feet long. Switch into a single stall engine house at one end. Planning a horseshoe curve at the other end. But point to
Point shelf.
Yes a very nice and interesting video on your Shae. However the more pressing question that needs to be asked in these days of COVID is, did you get a hair cut? Never boring but remember you viewers are observant.
Karyn did it. For the Funeral. Yesterday. really sad day. These are hard times. Now Mia has no daddy....
@@ToyManTelevision Sorry to hear that. My condolesenses. Karyn did a nice job.
If you ever decide to have a Garagemahal (sic) sale, please give me 5 days notice so I can get a flight out. Thanks. 😄
I have a ho scale bachmann 80 ton three truck shay, i bought old stock brand new. Gears broken on sight. Im sitting on a new loco i have never seen move yet because these gears are no longer available. I hear north shore has metal gears.
Yup. And or PFM? But yes.
What year was that production run.
Hum.... let me look.
1997. Not sure when they reworks the trucks. So many were changed. Hard to know when the better trucks came out. And it may be that there were three versions of the trucks. The best ones are die cast metal.
Also early 'Annie's' had nylon problems (4-6-0s)
They all did. Some worse than others. The first shay being the worst. Some only made it 20 feet.
Honestly, most clubs have a 'guy' who could make up some brass replacement gears. Might not be cheap, but it might be cheaper than buying a new loco.
Brass definitely would be better than Delrin. Delrin breaks also just not as easy. By the way Delrin is poly formaldehyde.
I'm viewer #1 yeah!!
HI And thanks!
@@ToyManTelevision Hi i have the same shay and would really love to get this thing running now I'm only new to G scale as i have just inherited my grandfathers total train collection but couldn't find the power supply transformer or controller all the wires were there but the main components were missing and was just wondering what voltage and amps would best suit these engines. any help would be greatly appreciated . Kind regards Brendin
I have one, but the motor randomly crapped out
Motor usually doesn’t. Gears always do. you can replace the entire power truck. They are available.
i have a bachmann shay in HO scale, my only complaint is there not very strong
Not sure if Ho ones have problems... On30 do as well. All have nylon gears but on some versions they work fine. No idea why.
@@ToyManTelevision Yea my shay’s drive keep falling apart. That’s why i like my regular 0-6-0 for lumber trains
I have a 3 truck Shay. Never been opened. Hope its not got a nylon gearbox.....
Nope. The three truck is good.
The On30 Shays failed as well - NWSL are no longer doing the gears for the On30 shays
Yup and DARN!!! So now what?
@@ToyManTelevision Bachmann still have spares for sale - but the NWSLgears were a better option for the On30 ones
Bachman makes some really good looking stuff but they can’t get their act together with the mechanical abilities and gearing and this seems to be across the board with all scale trains too bad because they sure look great though.
Well the new ones are fine. Twice as much to buy.. but great. Sad it took them so long. And most of the stuff has not been redone. Yet. Let’s hope.
That is false!!! I tried it on a ho scale model and I wasted 2 hours of my day trying to glue it and the at the end it stuck to my hands... glue does not work!!!!
HI. As I say have not tried it. Saw it online. Super glue is reayy tricky. But the baking soda trick is a good one. BUT it will still fail at some point. Nothing sticks to Nylon. And CA sticks best to fingers..
@@ToyManTelevision Well not to sound cocky but I believe I am a super glue master because I can almost glue anything together with super glue... but that was one thing I could not complete...