I pay attention to videos like this. I'll listen and take it seriously. I write but for my own enjoyment only. It is thirty six years since I wrote my first short story and I still consider myself an amateur. And I have written a hell of a lot since I first began. Thing is, I am always learning and am always interested in improving. I want what I write to be the best it can possibly be, so thank you both for this video and for others like it.
Thank you very much, Karl. As both Erikson and I said, it is precisely because of people like you that we do the videos. So thank you for listening, and thank you for commenting.
My thank for another free class, gents! 😁 Regarding exposition: I think of fiction as having at least four different things going on within it (five, if you are one of those crazy fantasy writers who inserts poems into their novel 😁). One is dialogue, as you've pointed out. As for exposition, I distinguish action and description from what I think of as pure exposition. Like dialogue, action has immediacy, and though description tends to slow the pace, it too happens to present the reader with the scene in the moment. Exposition, according to my approach, is more along the lines of background information that is not happening in the moment to catch up the reader up or present information that is helpful for understanding the story's context. This is often referred to as "info dumping." I'd love to hear your thoughts on these distinctions.
@@ACriticalDragon As the Thing can only be described in relation to another thing there is no Thing - dependant co-arising. Had to look up the French and that is hilarious. Reminded me of the 'map is not the territory', or the Ship of Theseus/concept of a functional unit.
“The more isolated a society is, the more twisted its sense of normality.” Exploring that notion is fascinating! I’ve always found psychology fascinating, so these discussions are fun for me to understand how authors create specific effects. These discussions also make me realize how easy it is to oversimplify concepts such as pacing, tone, etc. Thank you for the free education!
I think perhaps I phrased that a little poorly. Perhaps a slightly less pejorative description would be 'the more isolated a culture, the more idiosyncratic its sense of normalcy'. The power of words to shape reality is a fascinating topic.
Hi AP, I just wanted to leave you both a message to thank you for these videos, and for their free nature. There’s immense value here, and as someone who has only begun their journey from reader to writer I can’t quite articulate how great it is to have people like yourself posting insightful and educational content free of the grift that’s seen elsewhere. Thank you both.
Honestly, I think the fact that Erickson made me go from absolutely loathing a character to him being one of my top characters of ANY book is a huge indication of his writing skill. Karsa is a work of authorial art. The growth and societal commentary is exquisite. Also, let him know this so he knows there's always room for you two to have amazing discussions! 👏
OMG, Erikson talking about the muteness of the scenes leading up to the scene in Deadhouse Gates was exactly how I was imagining it in my head. The dread extending visually. The hopelessness of the garrison operating under a grossly incompetent leader. Amazing.
It's really hard for me to find writing workshops and classes where I live so these are super valuable. Brandon Sanderson has his BYU lectures on youtube which are great, but these discussions are way deeper, on another level really. Keep it up!
Thank you Damian, I am glad that you are enjoying them. In terms of writer workshops, I know that there are a number of discord servers which host writer groups, so that might be an option for you.
I just wanted to jump on and say that between the two of you, I have learned more about writing (specifically storytelling) than I realized there was to learn. I was originally spoilt for quality when it comes to storytelling by The Malazan Book of the Fallen, and over multiple videos you two have shared the skills necessary for me to attempt to make it the low tide line when it comes to craft quality in fiction. I mean that with the utmost respect. Thank you for making this free. I would never have learned it otherwise. P.S. The craft part of my brain no longer turns off when I read. I blame you, A.P. And I thank you, it's great fun.
Ah, not being able to turn off that part of the brain is both the joy and tragedy about knowing more and more about how narrative functions and is put together. So... sorry, not sorry??? :) I am glad that you are enjoying the videos. Thanks for watching.
This was brilliant, and one I will definitely be returning to in the future. Great advice for aspiring authors! I'm very grateful for the existence of this type of content, and look forward to the next installment.
Thank you very much, I am glad that you enjoyed it. Erikson and I have been discussing and arguing about approaches to narrative for years, so it is fun to record some of these discussions and invite others to the conversation.
I am finding these discussions to be incredibly insightful. Initially that was just as a reader, but even more so now that I am beginning to write. I also like the semi-structured nature. It is obvious that you are both experts in your fields as well as passionate about sharing what you know. Despite that, you are also just two good friends sitting and talking about a shared interest. To me, that makes your content much more accessible. The fact that you have made this content readily available has been super helpful, too. I agree that our culture is overly fixated on monetising everything, and appreciate the stance you are both taking that this does not need to be the way. For myself, it has been useful to gain insight in a period where I am not sure whether I want to commit to any sort of "formal training" in this area. Also, the opportunity that it provides to those who are not privileged enough to be able to afford paying for insight like this is invaluable, though intangible in terms of direct impact. Keep up the good work, and know that there are people out there who value what you do.
Oh, we can't ever get enough of Steve on youtube or any other media. And we're super grateful he's kind to accept these discussions and appear online. Of course, if Steve is not feeling comfortable with this and chooses to not show up so much, I completely understand, I wouldn't want him to feel pressured in any way. What you both do for the fans is amazing, we're all so grateful! I am not an aspiring writer, but these conversations are fascinating nevertheless. I could watch you discuss anything you want to, and never grow tired of it. We get to peek into the mind of our favorite author, which makes us incredibly privileged. Thank you both so much!
Hi Rox, we will keep on recording chats as long as they are fun and don't get in the way of other more important things. I will see if I can get Esslemont to come on more often though :)
Interesting discussion! As for the free vs. to pay for debate: There are a lot of writers, some I really love, who have masterclass or other online courses and I would never pay for those. The reason? I'm not a writer, not even an aspiring one so investing in such a course would not make a lot of sense, at least not in my current financial situation. But listening to these discussions improves my reading experience as well and I am thankful for that. Having these available to everyone does a lot of good I think. Beyond that, what I'e learned from this does connect back to what ICE said in your discussion on writer's workshops. Basically we need to consume as much media as possible and think hard about what worked and didn't work for us and why, then take these things and try to emulate them in our own way when we try to create art. And while discussions like this one can help us understand things better, there's no way around just reading a ton and watching movies a lot really.
There are many ways to acquire the tools; from a teacher, from contemporaries, from example, and from didactic texts. Consumption without thought is just consumption. Thought without application is mere musing. Thought and application together are a true education. Or at least that is what the fortune cookie said.
@@ACriticalDragon Well, there's very few things that profit from being done without thought although I could think of a fe.. hold on, I shouldn't think, so forget that part.
Thank you for sharing this discussion! All of your videos are among my favorites, but these ones are always highlights. Like a director's movie commentary, but one that encompasses storytelling from a wider perspective
Hi Steve, thank you. It is always great to have conversations and learn from each other. It is the best part of being in a community. The worst part is the constantly expanding TBR and the hits my bank balance takes, but it seems a fair exchange.
Perfect timing :D I'm reading Fire & Blood by George Martin now and it's extra compelling, because it's a history book, written by a maester, compiling different sources (among them also a history book). And it's subtly interwoven that there might be an anti Targaryen conspiracy by the maesters, who possibly want to create strife among the rulers and influence succession in order to create a more stable world without dragons. Layers upon layers of unreliability. I also studied history for a couple semesters, so I enjoy that stuff immensely. I so look forward to coming back to Malazan with all the knowledge I've gained the last couple of years. And always a big thanks for your content, A.P. Very much appreciated!
These videos are always educational, for both my reader and writer side. I finished Malazan few months ago and loved it. I also very much appreciate authors who openly talk about the craft of writing like Steven Erikson does.
These are the videos I gravitate more to, BECAUSE of the ideology you both hold dear. The ones you have to pay for, I’ve found that I’ve had discussions with friends about these topics that were 10x as useful as those behind a paywall. And my friends are all smart but we’re amateurs. So to have literal professionals doing this for free, I tend to take this as a purposeful gift, and I DON’T take gifts lightly.
I’d like to add, the subject you and Erickson touched on at the beginning, about doing this for free. How that effects the value of these lessons, is exactly why I shamelessly fanboy, and gush over this channel. Lately, when I feel in need of writing motivation. I find myself coming back to this channel, it reminds me why I love the craft so much, it teaches me, it inspires me knowing there are still masters of the craft who care, it lights a fire inside me. Thank you both so much.
This conversation/video was excellent, as always. The passion and knowledge both of you have and are willing to share, plus the fun you have is just wonderful. I learn so much and have loads of fun. Thank you!
Our time is as valuable as money. The fact that you do have a steady, regular, attentive audience demonstrates that more than a handful of students value this sort of content as a form of instruction. Time is money. All of the viewers pay at the minimum the opportunity costs of watching these videos.
While I am really glad that Erikson takes the time to do these sorts of discussions with me, I would never expect other authors to do the same. All the authors I have met have been incredibly generous with their time, but conversations and discussions like this about the craft of writing don't always interest them. It is part of what makes the field so vibrant, lots of authors with lots of perspectives.
I study Physics and I have used SO SO SO many lectures and explanations from youtube and other platforms. I am very surprised to see this discussion at the beginning about monetization, because I am so used to there being whole lecture series online for free, especially in math. Ofc those aren't my only source of learning as I often need multiple sources until I get a concept, but it has been a HUGE part apart from books and scripts. As to this series, I don't think I will get anything out of it that I will apply anywhere, but its an interesting podcast while making breakfast :D So thank you for thay !
Would most of those lecture series be people who are employed by a university and have recorded their lectures or classes as supplements for their students to rewatch?
I’m mostly a lurker here, but I am paying attention. If you turned it into a course, I’d want to pay for it but probably be unable to. This is invaluable! Really enlightening! I’m taking notes.
Brilliant, as usual. The narrativisation and contextualisation in English can be achieved with a simple "the". Maybe it's not something people consciously think about, but as a foreign reader I notice it quite often. In Steven's Memories of Ice prologue, the first sentence begins with something like "the sky keeps surrendered the battlefield". It's already a significant bit of context, "the" sky keeps means that this is something familiar to the POV character, it's part of their reality, as opposed to something wondrous and terrifying by its very existence. There have been fanfics that retell LotR from an Orc's point of view, and there are even a couple that were published officially in Russia in the 90s, when copyright wasn't protected so hard. Us Russians being contrarians at the time (fall of the old ideology and ways of life played a role), the main goal of these novels was to show how elves are evil oppressors and even the divine creator is evil. They tried to humanize the Orcs, but in my view they failed because they mainly wanted to be edgy and dismantle everything Tolkien built, not specifically to redress the othering of "the enemy".
I have really enjoyed this and many other videos ive been seeing you in. I'm about 60k words into my first fantasy novel. I've also been reading Malazan for the first time. So inspiring. I can tell you that the value is definitely seen and appreciated! One day I will be begging you for a quick critique on my own work!
@@ACriticalDragon haha. Actually the RoP content you've been doing has given me time to catch up. Can't watch it until I watch RoP which won't happen until it's all released
Excellent conversation as always; your comment of "seeing Lord of the Rings from the Orc's point of view" at about the 14 minute mark reminded me of the excellent fan-fiction "The Last Ringbearer" by Kirill Eskov. Sadly, I don't know a legal way to obtain the English translation (as the Tolkien Estate has naturally opposed its publication) but an informal translation blessed by the author is fairly easily obtained. The main premise is that the Lord of the Rings is propaganda put forth by Gondor, who happened to win the war against Mordor. Orcs are just another race (in modern-day terms) of humans, and the Elves, the true villains of the piece, provoked the war (genocide, really) so their own racial superiority would not be challenged by Mordor: here a scientifically enlightened, constitutional monarchy on the verge of an industrial revolution. It plays around a lot with what we "know" about Tolkien's worldbuilding and is a really fun read altogether.
@@ACriticalDragon There was also Bored of the Rings so parody is an option but Tolkein Enterprises is probably more possessive of LotR than parts its fanbase.
I find so much joy and information from your videos with Steve. Now serious question how much do you have to twist his arm to make these discussion videos? 😆
Getting to this. My thoughts while listening. I know y'all don't charge for this so I'll have to show my appreciation through appreciation comments like this. Thank you. I'm not a writer and I don't ever plan on writing but I find these incredibly helpful for understanding books as I write. I have found myself reading and saying "aha" that's what A.P. or Steve was talking about. I wonder who y'all are talking about when speaking about "purple prose" dialogue characters. hmm. When you used the anthology example for how to recontextualize a first person past perspective memoir I was sure you were going to use Book of the New Sun as an example. You said anyone can notice when the writing doesn't work but I'm not convinced they can. Maybe with training and reading anyone can (I'm trying to get there) but the popularity of "bad writing" seems to be an argument against your statement. Jab at Discovery.😂
Hi Bryson, thanks for the comment. I do really appreciate everyone who takes the time to watch the videos and then wants to discuss them. It makes it feel a little less like yelling into the void.
A russian author wrote a story of the lord of the rings from the orcs point of view. You can find it online, it's called 'the last ring bearer'! Thanks for doing this, there is never too much Steve! Malazan taught me to see the world differently in a way that, as you said, is very uncomfortable, but the most rewarding feeling of a deeper empathy comes along with it and that is a gift worth any uncomfort
I think also of you charged for this there might be some obligation to make it more of a class, i.e. work, rather than just an informal, yet highly informative, conversation. It also is a great excuse for you and your guests to chat about something you love and are passionate about. Which sounds a lot better than hanging out in cafes eavesdropping on conversations.
How do we gain the capability to see Julius Caesar as the villain, if all we have are accounts either by the man himself, or champions of him. How can one say “well, here’s why this is suspect, here’s what happened under this other light.” How do you take the policies of Caesar, who thought he was right to one degree or another (and so NOT a tyrant) and say, “here, think of it this way instead.”
You imagine how his victims felt. You look at his words, strip away the self-serving aggrandisement and look to the events, then imagine how it would be to suffer on the other end of them. Or You look at the histories and you spin it the other way and make him the hero. The telling of the tale is usually more powerful than the events themselves. What you emphasise and how you emphasise it can turn a hero to villain and a villain to hero. The mind is a glorious thing.
You have record of his actions from other sources and the writings of his enemies and supporters. His rule was the death of the Republic and a large number of his, often wealthy, opponents. His rule was absolute he was a tyrant by definition. I also don't thing right or wrong ever occurred to him rather it was his right to do what he did.
@@ACriticalDragon Bird's-eye... I mean dragon's-eye view? "Little did the scroller know that a dragon was watching his ever click, critically judging his lack of attention."
Capitalist maxim: It can't be any good if it's not expensive. Example: an Applehead sees a phone selling for $600. Says the Apple acolyte, "It can't possibly be a good phone unless it costs twice as much!" The horror would be even greater if the phone was $300.
There is never too much Steven Erickson on UA-cam.
Seconded
thirded :P
I pay attention to videos like this. I'll listen and take it seriously. I write but for my own enjoyment only. It is thirty six years since I wrote my first short story and I still consider myself an amateur. And I have written a hell of a lot since I first began. Thing is, I am always learning and am always interested in improving. I want what I write to be the best it can possibly be, so thank you both for this video and for others like it.
Thank you very much, Karl. As both Erikson and I said, it is precisely because of people like you that we do the videos. So thank you for listening, and thank you for commenting.
My thank for another free class, gents! 😁 Regarding exposition: I think of fiction as having at least four different things going on within it (five, if you are one of those crazy fantasy writers who inserts poems into their novel 😁). One is dialogue, as you've pointed out. As for exposition, I distinguish action and description from what I think of as pure exposition. Like dialogue, action has immediacy, and though description tends to slow the pace, it too happens to present the reader with the scene in the moment. Exposition, according to my approach, is more along the lines of background information that is not happening in the moment to catch up the reader up or present information that is helpful for understanding the story's context. This is often referred to as "info dumping." I'd love to hear your thoughts on these distinctions.
I see you started to touch on this at 46:00!
Is the description of the thing the thing itself? Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
Time to bust out the Baudrillard.
@@ACriticalDragon As the Thing can only be described in relation to another thing there is no Thing - dependant co-arising.
Had to look up the French and that is hilarious. Reminded me of the 'map is not the territory', or the Ship of Theseus/concept of a functional unit.
“The more isolated a society is, the more twisted its sense of normality.”
Exploring that notion is fascinating! I’ve always found psychology fascinating, so these discussions are fun for me to understand how authors create specific effects. These discussions also make me realize how easy it is to oversimplify concepts such as pacing, tone, etc. Thank you for the free education!
I think perhaps I phrased that a little poorly. Perhaps a slightly less pejorative description would be 'the more isolated a culture, the more idiosyncratic its sense of normalcy'. The power of words to shape reality is a fascinating topic.
As other people have already mentioned, this "conversations" are priceless to both amateur and prophesional writers, me included.
Thank you Victor. It is always nice to hear that.
very informative and my favourite chat in this series so far! thank you!
Hi AP, I just wanted to leave you both a message to thank you for these videos, and for their free nature. There’s immense value here, and as someone who has only begun their journey from reader to writer I can’t quite articulate how great it is to have people like yourself posting insightful and educational content free of the grift that’s seen elsewhere. Thank you both.
Honestly, I think the fact that Erickson made me go from absolutely loathing a character to him being one of my top characters of ANY book is a huge indication of his writing skill. Karsa is a work of authorial art. The growth and societal commentary is exquisite.
Also, let him know this so he knows there's always room for you two to have amazing discussions! 👏
OMG, Erikson talking about the muteness of the scenes leading up to the scene in Deadhouse Gates was exactly how I was imagining it in my head. The dread extending visually. The hopelessness of the garrison operating under a grossly incompetent leader. Amazing.
It's really hard for me to find writing workshops and classes where I live so these are super valuable. Brandon Sanderson has his BYU lectures on youtube which are great, but these discussions are way deeper, on another level really. Keep it up!
Thank you Damian, I am glad that you are enjoying them.
In terms of writer workshops, I know that there are a number of discord servers which host writer groups, so that might be an option for you.
Every bit of media from you guys that I consume makes me appreciate you both more and more.
Thank you very much. I am glad that you are enjoying the discussions.
I just wanted to jump on and say that between the two of you, I have learned more about writing (specifically storytelling) than I realized there was to learn. I was originally spoilt for quality when it comes to storytelling by The Malazan Book of the Fallen, and over multiple videos you two have shared the skills necessary for me to attempt to make it the low tide line when it comes to craft quality in fiction. I mean that with the utmost respect.
Thank you for making this free. I would never have learned it otherwise.
P.S. The craft part of my brain no longer turns off when I read. I blame you, A.P. And I thank you, it's great fun.
Ah, not being able to turn off that part of the brain is both the joy and tragedy about knowing more and more about how narrative functions and is put together. So... sorry, not sorry??? :) I am glad that you are enjoying the videos. Thanks for watching.
This was brilliant, and one I will definitely be returning to in the future. Great advice for aspiring authors! I'm very grateful for the existence of this type of content, and look forward to the next installment.
Thank you very much, I am glad that you enjoyed it. Erikson and I have been discussing and arguing about approaches to narrative for years, so it is fun to record some of these discussions and invite others to the conversation.
I am finding these discussions to be incredibly insightful. Initially that was just as a reader, but even more so now that I am beginning to write. I also like the semi-structured nature. It is obvious that you are both experts in your fields as well as passionate about sharing what you know. Despite that, you are also just two good friends sitting and talking about a shared interest. To me, that makes your content much more accessible.
The fact that you have made this content readily available has been super helpful, too. I agree that our culture is overly fixated on monetising everything, and appreciate the stance you are both taking that this does not need to be the way. For myself, it has been useful to gain insight in a period where I am not sure whether I want to commit to any sort of "formal training" in this area. Also, the opportunity that it provides to those who are not privileged enough to be able to afford paying for insight like this is invaluable, though intangible in terms of direct impact.
Keep up the good work, and know that there are people out there who value what you do.
I am glad that you enjoyed it and got something useful from it.
Thanks for watching.
Just chiming in that I appreciate your channel and Steven's willingness to put this out there for free. I learn so much!
Thank you very much, I am glad that you are enjoying the videos.
Oh, we can't ever get enough of Steve on youtube or any other media. And we're super grateful he's kind to accept these discussions and appear online. Of course, if Steve is not feeling comfortable with this and chooses to not show up so much, I completely understand, I wouldn't want him to feel pressured in any way.
What you both do for the fans is amazing, we're all so grateful! I am not an aspiring writer, but these conversations are fascinating nevertheless. I could watch you discuss anything you want to, and never grow tired of it. We get to peek into the mind of our favorite author, which makes us incredibly privileged. Thank you both so much!
Hi Rox, we will keep on recording chats as long as they are fun and don't get in the way of other more important things. I will see if I can get Esslemont to come on more often though :)
@@ACriticalDragon that's fantastic! And yeees, we need more Cam on the screen too, for sure :)
Interesting discussion! As for the free vs. to pay for debate: There are a lot of writers, some I really love, who have masterclass or other online courses and I would never pay for those. The reason? I'm not a writer, not even an aspiring one so investing in such a course would not make a lot of sense, at least not in my current financial situation. But listening to these discussions improves my reading experience as well and I am thankful for that. Having these available to everyone does a lot of good I think. Beyond that, what I'e learned from this does connect back to what ICE said in your discussion on writer's workshops. Basically we need to consume as much media as possible and think hard about what worked and didn't work for us and why, then take these things and try to emulate them in our own way when we try to create art. And while discussions like this one can help us understand things better, there's no way around just reading a ton and watching movies a lot really.
There are many ways to acquire the tools; from a teacher, from contemporaries, from example, and from didactic texts. Consumption without thought is just consumption. Thought without application is mere musing. Thought and application together are a true education.
Or at least that is what the fortune cookie said.
@@ACriticalDragon Well, there's very few things that profit from being done without thought although I could think of a fe.. hold on, I shouldn't think, so forget that part.
Thank you for the genuine and good content!
You are very welcome, thanks for watching.
The way we're literally getting a free college course in these collab videos. 🤩
Thank you for sharing this discussion! All of your videos are among my favorites, but these ones are always highlights. Like a director's movie commentary, but one that encompasses storytelling from a wider perspective
Thank you very much. It is great being able to speak with Erikson and have discussions about what is happening on the page and how it effects us.
I always learn something from your videos, appreciate you taking the time and energy to share your knowledge with us
Hi Steve, thank you. It is always great to have conversations and learn from each other. It is the best part of being in a community.
The worst part is the constantly expanding TBR and the hits my bank balance takes, but it seems a fair exchange.
Thank you so much for those videos. They are truly highly appreciated. :)
You are very welcome, thank you for watching.
Perfect timing :D I'm reading Fire & Blood by George Martin now and it's extra compelling, because it's a history book, written by a maester, compiling different sources (among them also a history book). And it's subtly interwoven that there might be an anti Targaryen conspiracy by the maesters, who possibly want to create strife among the rulers and influence succession in order to create a more stable world without dragons. Layers upon layers of unreliability. I also studied history for a couple semesters, so I enjoy that stuff immensely.
I so look forward to coming back to Malazan with all the knowledge I've gained the last couple of years. And always a big thanks for your content, A.P. Very much appreciated!
Your words are never wasted. The ears of understanding are open to the lips of wisdom. Definitely appreciate everything you share with us!
Thank you very much. I am glad that you enjoyed the discussion.
These videos are always educational, for both my reader and writer side. I finished Malazan few months ago and loved it. I also very much appreciate authors who openly talk about the craft of writing like Steven Erikson does.
These are the videos I gravitate more to, BECAUSE of the ideology you both hold dear. The ones you have to pay for, I’ve found that I’ve had discussions with friends about these topics that were 10x as useful as those behind a paywall.
And my friends are all smart but we’re amateurs.
So to have literal professionals doing this for free, I tend to take this as a purposeful gift, and I DON’T take gifts lightly.
Thanks Billy, I am glad that they are useful.
I’d like to add, the subject you and Erickson touched on at the beginning, about doing this for free. How that effects the value of these lessons, is exactly why I shamelessly fanboy, and gush over this channel. Lately, when I feel in need of writing motivation. I find myself coming back to this channel, it reminds me why I love the craft so much, it teaches me, it inspires me knowing there are still masters of the craft who care, it lights a fire inside me. Thank you both so much.
Thanks Will, it is great to hear that you enjoy and find the discussions useful.
Thank you again AP and Steve. These videos are invaluable to me. Price too often dictates quality or value in people's minds - a sad world we live in.
You are very welcome, Kyle. Thanks for watching.
This conversation/video was excellent, as always. The passion and knowledge both of you have and are willing to share, plus the fun you have is just wonderful. I learn so much and have loads of fun. Thank you!
Our pleasure, I am glad that you enjoyed it. Thank you for watching.
Our time is as valuable as money. The fact that you do have a steady, regular, attentive audience demonstrates that more than a handful of students value this sort of content as a form of instruction. Time is money. All of the viewers pay at the minimum the opportunity costs of watching these videos.
I tried that argument on my landlord, he didn't buy it.
There could never be to much Erikson on my UA-cam. You're just putting most other authors to shame in how willing you are to share!
While I am really glad that Erikson takes the time to do these sorts of discussions with me, I would never expect other authors to do the same. All the authors I have met have been incredibly generous with their time, but conversations and discussions like this about the craft of writing don't always interest them. It is part of what makes the field so vibrant, lots of authors with lots of perspectives.
I study Physics and I have used SO SO SO many lectures and explanations from youtube and other platforms. I am very surprised to see this discussion at the beginning about monetization, because I am so used to there being whole lecture series online for free, especially in math. Ofc those aren't my only source of learning as I often need multiple sources until I get a concept, but it has been a HUGE part apart from books and scripts. As to this series, I don't think I will get anything out of it that I will apply anywhere, but its an interesting podcast while making breakfast :D So thank you for thay !
Would most of those lecture series be people who are employed by a university and have recorded their lectures or classes as supplements for their students to rewatch?
@@ACriticalDragon Most, yes, but not a dominant majority I would say. Ofc I don't have a statistic, but from the ones I use/used about 2/3 maybe.
I’m mostly a lurker here, but I am paying attention. If you turned it into a course, I’d want to pay for it but probably be unable to. This is invaluable! Really enlightening! I’m taking notes.
I am glad that you are enjoying the videos. Thanks for letting me know.
Brilliant, as usual.
The narrativisation and contextualisation in English can be achieved with a simple "the". Maybe it's not something people consciously think about, but as a foreign reader I notice it quite often. In Steven's Memories of Ice prologue, the first sentence begins with something like "the sky keeps surrendered the battlefield". It's already a significant bit of context, "the" sky keeps means that this is something familiar to the POV character, it's part of their reality, as opposed to something wondrous and terrifying by its very existence.
There have been fanfics that retell LotR from an Orc's point of view, and there are even a couple that were published officially in Russia in the 90s, when copyright wasn't protected so hard. Us Russians being contrarians at the time (fall of the old ideology and ways of life played a role), the main goal of these novels was to show how elves are evil oppressors and even the divine creator is evil. They tried to humanize the Orcs, but in my view they failed because they mainly wanted to be edgy and dismantle everything Tolkien built, not specifically to redress the othering of "the enemy".
I vaguely remember at least one of the orcish fanfics. It was certainly interesting from what I recall. But that was a long time ago.
I have really enjoyed this and many other videos ive been seeing you in. I'm about 60k words into my first fantasy novel. I've also been reading Malazan for the first time. So inspiring.
I can tell you that the value is definitely seen and appreciated! One day I will be begging you for a quick critique on my own work!
Thank you very much, best of luck with the novel, I hope that the videos have helped.
What a glorious day. More content I don't have time to enjoy
At least it isn't Rings of Power focused.
@@ACriticalDragon haha. Actually the RoP content you've been doing has given me time to catch up. Can't watch it until I watch RoP which won't happen until it's all released
@@ACriticalDragon absolutely. Ugh. Haha
Excellent conversation as always; your comment of "seeing Lord of the Rings from the Orc's point of view" at about the 14 minute mark reminded me of the excellent fan-fiction "The Last Ringbearer" by Kirill Eskov. Sadly, I don't know a legal way to obtain the English translation (as the Tolkien Estate has naturally opposed its publication) but an informal translation blessed by the author is fairly easily obtained.
The main premise is that the Lord of the Rings is propaganda put forth by Gondor, who happened to win the war against Mordor. Orcs are just another race (in modern-day terms) of humans, and the Elves, the true villains of the piece, provoked the war (genocide, really) so their own racial superiority would not be challenged by Mordor: here a scientifically enlightened, constitutional monarchy on the verge of an industrial revolution.
It plays around a lot with what we "know" about Tolkien's worldbuilding and is a really fun read altogether.
That may be the one that I vaguely remembered from years ago. I knew there was at least one.
@@ACriticalDragon There was also Bored of the Rings so parody is an option but Tolkein Enterprises is probably more possessive of LotR than parts its fanbase.
A.P everytime I see your background in videos I hope for a bookshelf tour!
I find so much joy and information from your videos with Steve. Now serious question how much do you have to twist his arm to make these discussion videos? 😆
Blackmail is such an ugly word... 😂😂😂😂
Getting to this. My thoughts while listening.
I know y'all don't charge for this so I'll have to show my appreciation through appreciation comments like this. Thank you.
I'm not a writer and I don't ever plan on writing but I find these incredibly helpful for understanding books as I write. I have found myself reading and saying "aha" that's what A.P. or Steve was talking about.
I wonder who y'all are talking about when speaking about "purple prose" dialogue characters. hmm.
When you used the anthology example for how to recontextualize a first person past perspective memoir I was sure you were going to use Book of the New Sun as an example.
You said anyone can notice when the writing doesn't work but I'm not convinced they can. Maybe with training and reading anyone can (I'm trying to get there) but the popularity of "bad writing" seems to be an argument against your statement.
Jab at Discovery.😂
Hi Bryson, thanks for the comment. I do really appreciate everyone who takes the time to watch the videos and then wants to discuss them. It makes it feel a little less like yelling into the void.
A russian author wrote a story of the lord of the rings from the orcs point of view. You can find it online, it's called 'the last ring bearer'! Thanks for doing this, there is never too much Steve! Malazan taught me to see the world differently in a way that, as you said, is very uncomfortable, but the most rewarding feeling of a deeper empathy comes along with it and that is a gift worth any uncomfort
Thanks Rick, that was the one that I vaguely remembered.
4:30 if it's free, it's for me
I can imagine no better way to spend my evening.
That is very kind of you to say. Thank you.
I think also of you charged for this there might be some obligation to make it more of a class, i.e. work, rather than just an informal, yet highly informative, conversation. It also is a great excuse for you and your guests to chat about something you love and are passionate about. Which sounds a lot better than hanging out in cafes eavesdropping on conversations.
Eric, do you honestly think that my friends need an excuse to talk about this stuff?
Do the positives of capitalism out way the negatives? If not, what system should be used?
That is a question for smarter people than I.
Me too!
How do we gain the capability to see Julius Caesar as the villain, if all we have are accounts either by the man himself, or champions of him. How can one say “well, here’s why this is suspect, here’s what happened under this other light.” How do you take the policies of Caesar, who thought he was right to one degree or another (and so NOT a tyrant) and say, “here, think of it this way instead.”
You imagine how his victims felt. You look at his words, strip away the self-serving aggrandisement and look to the events, then imagine how it would be to suffer on the other end of them.
Or
You look at the histories and you spin it the other way and make him the hero.
The telling of the tale is usually more powerful than the events themselves. What you emphasise and how you emphasise it can turn a hero to villain and a villain to hero.
The mind is a glorious thing.
You have record of his actions from other sources and the writings of his enemies and supporters. His rule was the death of the Republic and a large number of his, often wealthy, opponents. His rule was absolute he was a tyrant by definition. I also don't thing right or wrong ever occurred to him rather it was his right to do what he did.
Excellent. :D
gold
Always believe in your soul
You've got the power to know
You're indestructible
Always believe in
AP, "People likely aren't paying much attention to this."
Me, listening while scrolling through Twitter, "How does he know????"
I have eyes everywhere...
@@ACriticalDragon Bird's-eye... I mean dragon's-eye view?
"Little did the scroller know that a dragon was watching his ever click, critically judging his lack of attention."
So that’s how it’s pronounced! I thought it was like coffee. IOW-buy me a Kofi 😉
I am rubbish at pronunciation, it probably is pronounced coffee...
You can’t be as bad as me. I learnt words through reading. You should have heard how I pronounced words like elite, and paradigm. Hehe
Hey, I resemble that remark. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Capitalist maxim: It can't be any good if it's not expensive.
Example: an Applehead sees a phone selling for $600. Says the Apple acolyte, "It can't possibly be a good phone unless it costs twice as much!"
The horror would be even greater if the phone was $300.
It is the world we live in. Until someone invents portable safe cold fusion and Star Trek replicators, we just have to do our best.
You should have let Steven Erikson talk more, with all his experience of novel writing he must have had more to say.
He does, that is why we have a whole series of videos of the two of us discussing writing.