Malazan chat with Steven Erikson and A.P. Canavan (spoiler free)
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- Опубліковано 22 лис 2024
- Below are the channels mentioned and other BookTubers (or Malaztubers!) with Malazan content that I know. Please leave a comment if you'd like me to add your channel!
A Critical Dragon (A.P. Canavan): / @acriticaldragon
@mikesbookreviews: / @mikesbookreviews
@IskarJarak: / @iskarjarak
Counsellor of Moon's Spawn: / @counsellorofmoonsspawn
Ruthan Badd: / @ruthanbadd
Really Good and Kind: / @reallygoodandkind
Raf Blutaxt: / @rafblutaxt
Graceless Passion: / @gracelesspassion1750
@AndySmithMN : / @andysmithmn
Kate Kennedy: / @katemaccio
@BookswithBrittany: / @bookswithbrittany
@TheLibraryofAllenxandria: / @thelibraryofallenxandria
Books Rebound: / twirlface3
Claudia Iovanovici: / @claudiaiovanovici7569
@PetrikLeo: / thepatrikpet
Livia the Malazan potato noob: / @liviathemalazanpotato...
Ten Very Big Books: / @tenverybigbooks
Niflrog's Folly: / @niflrogsfolly
@r1ddhima: / @r1ddhima
@DanielGreeneReviews: / @danielgreenereviews
I feel like the only one who hasn't gotten to speak with Mr. Erikson yet ha ha. Thanks so much for this and, of course, for the shoutout. You are a gentleman and a scholar, Philip.
Oh, that interview must happen! I certainly hope it will, and if I can do anything to help it become a reality, I most certainly will!
Matter of time, Mike!
Certainly a "when" and not an "if"
Your channel is one of the biggest reasons why I started reading Malazan so I hope it happens some day.
I love seeing Erikson getting the recognition he deserves for a frankly insanely good series.
He deserves tons of recognition, indeed!
I’m a little more than halfway through Gardens of the Moon. It’s been great thus far, and I expect I’m in for one helluva ride!
@@TheBlueOwlX Awesome! I hope you’ll love it the whole way!
I think there’s lots more of recognition to come. Either in the literary world for the next few decades. Or in general pop culture once some company dares taking on the MBotF for a decent TV series.
@@thomasley4006 That would be a TV series I’d watch! I would just hope they invest enough to do it right.
Top left guy sounds smart, he should write a book series or something.
He does seem a bit articulate, doesn’t he? Perhaps he should give it a shot!
Yep, I think he should try writing ten bery big books
@@pratyushbzr Ha ha!
Nah he's apparently more of a short story writer. Who knows tho
You are too kind to even include me in the list and for you and SE to say such nice things is a true honor! This was a really interesting conversation and I am so grateful for the ongoing contributions to the conversation. My big question is, when are we gonna get that AP Bookshelf Tour?! That thing has everybody salivating! 🙏❤️💪🙌 I’m glad you asked about the other philosophies... Ruthan Badd has seen a lot of parallels with Hindu and Buddhist traditions in storytelling that he’s talked about in a few videos too, so you guys seem to be onto something. Appreciate ya!
Iskar, not only are you on the list, but you’re on the top of it in my book. We all deeply appreciate all that you’ve done and are doing to create a Malazan community on UA-cam. Thank you!!!
Iskar you were the start of it all for me. Go on, my son
@@Gaz8foyd Ditto
Also, can I say that I loved APs point about how abstracting real life events into a fantasy setting really let’s you take an objective look at things that we can then bring back to our own world that lets us avoid the major pitfalls of considering something with all of the baked in cultural and societal preconceptions that we already have. Great point and I think that’s one of the things that Malazan does so well. He should make a channel-I could listen to him talk fantasy and books and literature all day!
Yes, and yes! That’s another beautiful point by A.P., and if he started a channel, I’d be glued to it!
Along similar lines the use of tropes can also lead to preconceived notions. This can result in lazy writing where authors use tropes as character Cliff Notes.
Fantasy books also have the freedom to sneak real world events and themes into them. For example imagine making an anti Vietnam war movie in 1968. But put them in literal monkey suits and you have Planet of the Apes.
Fantastic, Erikson and A.P.'s back-and-forth was an absolute joy to sit in on!
So true! I loved hearing them exchange stories, except my jaw was starting to hurt from laughter!
Mr. Erikson and A.P. both seem like such friendly and funny people, and a delight to have a conversation with. Thank you for this video.
The conversation was indeed a delight for me, and thank you for watching!
Congrats Philip on getting a top class fantasy author on your channel! That's fantastic and an excellent job interviewing. I'm so happy to be along for the Malazan journey. 150 pages in and liking Gardens of the Moon very much already.
Thanks, Danny! I’m so glad to hear you’re enjoying GotM so far! I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts once you’re done.
Really fantastic seeing Mr Erikson engage with his fandom! Such a cool guy.
So true! I found him incredibly kind and so much fun to talk to. A really genuine person.
I remember trying to start reading this series back in 2000ish. Admittedly it was to difficult for me to read and my level of enjoyment and comprehension made me quit. Recently since I fell out of love with reading, I decided to use my audible freebie on The first book.
I noticed I missed out a bit, but this time I wanted to go back. Researched and found your site and Mikes and now I want to read again. Started over and now I’m blown away.
Thank you so much for bringing back my love for reading.
It’s wonderful to hear from you, and I’m happy that you’re enjoying Malazan this time! Mike’s Malazan read along is a great support system, and I’m glad our discussions have been helpful to you as well.
Ruthan Badd here. On the issue of pronunciation, an important thing to remember is that the language characters speak in the Malazan books is NOT English, and therefore pronunciation rules of the English language don't necessarily apply there, unless the argument is that the Elder Gods, Jaghut, Imass, Humans etc all speak English. In my native tongue for example, Tamil, it's completely normal for the "an" to be pronounced with an extra emphasis on the "aan" part when we refer to something that originates from somewhere. If something was from "Malaz", most Tamils would pronounce it as "Malazaaaan" (Like I do). I'm quite sure that even within the novels themselves, there are characters from different nations, warrens, races etc who pronounce "Malazan" in different ways, instead of just the conventional English way of saying it. I don't think a fisherman from Itko Khan for instance, will pronounce Malazan the same way a Forkrul Assail would. So if your mother tongue is English, I can see why the whole "Malazan" because of "Malaz island" would hold true. But there are other readers (Counsellor of Moonspawn is a great example where she's read the German versions and she therefore says Yaghut instead of Jaghut, Cotillio instead of Cotillion etc) whose pronunciations will inevitably be determined by what their first language is.
Excellent thoughts, Ruthan Badd! All I can say is that you’re absolutely right, and I suspect Steven Erikson would appreciate your insight here too. Always wonderful to hear from you!
Heartwarming to see an Indian Bridgeburner ❤️
There are even some cases, like in the spanish translation, where Malazan is directly changed into Malaz, and it's rather called "The Empire of Malaz". And when talking about someone from there, it is refered to as "malazano or malazana", because in spanish we usually have different terminations for both genres.
Fantastic name, by the way ;)
Spontaneously, I'd pronounce it MalazAAn, too. In german, "the Malazans" are "die Malazaner" (which you'd say with emphasis on the third syllable).
@@CounsellorofMoonsSpawn Interestingly, it is similar to how the accent is pronounced in spanish, "malazAno or malazAna".
By the way, great work on your own take on the series.
A.P. needs a BookTube channel with his insights (definitely the right word), gorgeous bookshelf, and hilarious stories!
This was such a delightful conversation. I knew it wouldn't be long before you had Steven Erikson as a guest. I always enjoy listening to him discuss his writing, influences, and background. I love when authors so generously engage with their audience, and I hope he knows many others feel the same way.
Philip, I absolutely loved how you brought up 'the wave' analogy in relation to Malazan. A.P. brought up how fantasy world-building allows us to expand our myopic views and encompass other perspectives as well as other possibilities (particularly when tropes are subverted). The shift in perspective from the small "me"/single wave to an expansive world/vast ocean definitely seems to apply here.
I couldn't help but think about music when A.P. discussed context. There are definitely pieces of music that are immediately gratifying to listen to. Then you learn Beethoven was deaf when he wrote that piece, the evolution of the orchestra at the time, form deviations (akin to trope subversion), various interpretations, etc. The experience becomes richer and more meaningful.
Beautiful thoughts, Johanna! I completely agree about A.P. - he would be a brilliant BookTuber!!!
Great news! AP has recently started a channel! It's called "A critical Dragon" Check it out! Top guy!
@@davidhegarty7500 His channel is indeed fantastic- the best place to go for anyone looking for deep narrative analysis!
@@davidhegarty7500 It truly is a great channel and such a great channel name! Thanks!
The Malazan books seem to have got an undeserved reputation as difficult which I never could understand. I loved the books the first time I read them and couldn't put them down. I'm on my third re-read now and still can't understand it. Series like WoT are so much more difficult to get through (the slog...). Malazan has interesting characters, humor, action, and simply human life. What's so difficult? In my opinion this is the best book series of all time, across all genres.
Well said! I admit to some confusion my first time reading the series, but even as I was confused, I understood what I was reading was brilliant. I think I spent too much time trying to master everything - geography, character lists, etc. - rather than being in the moment of the story. Now that I’m rereading the series, I’m not worried about that stuff, and so my sense of connection to the characters and places is even stronger, while my enjoyment is even greater. I’m also catching things I missed the first time. Malazan truly rewards rereads!
100% agreed. Also on my third reread. On dust if dreams now.
@@joshholmes1372 The series that keeps on giving!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy for sure, I got my best friend to start it as well. He's doing the books on tape, he's approaching the chain of dogs. Is it bad that I can't wait for his heart to be broken?
@@joshholmes1372 Let's take it as a sign that you're ready to be empathetic towards your friend!
This is a really great discussion! Still early in my Malazan journey, but am loving it so much! I hope they continue to grow in the popularity they really deserve.
I’m glad you enjoyed this chat, Johnathan. It was my first time talking with Steven Erikson, and I was super nervous!
It made me sad to hear Mr. Erikson say that he has given up on fantasy being given the proper analysis from academia. I hope that AP and yours conversation will spark more scholarly discussion. Great video. I hope you have the chance to make it to the conference to have a face to face with them both. Have a great new year.
I also hope that people like A.P. and me can make a difference for fantasy’s reception in academia. We’ll fight the good fight! Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
That struck me, too. Things might change. A newer generation isn't perhaps that compartmentalized (or snobbish). I'm a writer (Dutch) of literary fiction who also loves fantasy. All my literary friends now can see I'm reading Erikson, because I'm on Goodreads. Hopefully some of them will get curious...
@@JohanHerrenberg We will spread the word!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Oh yes!
@@JohanHerrenberg Back in the early 90s, I am sure leiden lit faculty gave it some attention.
I’m nearing the end of Memories of Ice. 200 pages left. This book is one of the best I’ve read. Looking forward to finishing it!
I love Memories of Ice too, and it bodes well for your Malazan journey if you're enjoying it!
Hope your Malazan journey has been going well! Memories of Ice is where it really picked up for me and I felt like I knew the characters and understood the world well enough.
@@Villainiz3d It has been great! Though my reading has slowed down (due to external forces like work). I'm about 300 pages into Midnight Tides. Loved House of Chains as well.
He’s an absolute Don if I put it bluntly. Mr. Eriksons work changed my life as young man. Class channel & thanks for the other channel recommendations
I have to agree with you about Steven Erikson and his books. Thanks for watching!
Am I gone full crazy or that's actually Erikson...
He is my hero
Thank you man ..
Not only is he a great author, but he’s a genuinely nice person. It was a pleasure to talk with him and A.P., and I hope you enjoy the discussion!
I know Steve has said he likes to go hang out and write in coffee shops. Judging by all the podcasts he's done lately I think he's really missing being with people. So awesome to see him more and more.
I can tell you it was an incredible pleasure to hang out with him, even on Zoom!
What an interesting conversation to listen to! Thanks a lot for arranging and sharing it, I really appreciate it. I started the Malazan series a couple of months ago and just finished MoI. It was a joyful and stimulating experience listening to your discussion of it on A.P.'s channel. I wish I could keep up your pace of one book a month but as I am reading other stuff in parallel as well, it's not likely to happen. However, it is great to know that your talks will be waiting for me after each book. Keep up the good work, you are creating valuable content for which many of us are grateful. :)
Thank you so much for the kind words! It really helps us to know that people are enjoying our discussions, so I appreciate you taking the time to comment. Our videos will be waiting for you as you get to each book!
This video taught me how to say Malazan. Talking about the pronunciation in regards to Malaz helped. Now I just need to remember to say it right 😅
Ha ha! Happy to help! 😁
Never read any Erickson books but definitely going to in time. It was interesting hearing Robert Sawyers named being mentioned in passing. Sawyer was the reason I started reading again 4 years ago.
I wish you the very best for Malazan if you decide to pick it up. Cheers!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy thank you. Hopefully you’ll read a couple of Sawyers books if you haven’t.
I've never seen an author put in facetime with people like Erikson. Gotta give him props for promoting and discussing his stuff even with the little people. (No offense)
Ha ha! No offense taken, and I totally agree with you, Nick!
I really enjoyed the brief conversation on the relationship between the author and the reader, and who is “right” (using pronunciation as the example). While there is a place for academic analysis, IMO, the individual experience is more important. Reading is a (albeit limited) form of role playing; the reader is not a passive actor in the story. When I read a story, I bring my own unique set of experiences that alters the “reality” of the story. When I read VE Schwab’s Vicious earlier this year, the story was an homage to Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein; and this interpretation may be unique to me. My experience is shaped by my past experiences, regardless of the author’s actual intent or vision. Thank you Philip for creating this wonderful forum to think more deeply about masterpieces such as the Malazan series. 🙏
I love your thoughts on the relationship between reader and text, Francois. That’s a great example of you bringing Frankenstein to your reading of Vicious, and I have no doubt that, when I finally read the latter, your insight will color my reading of the book. In that way, reading can also be a communal act, I suppose!
A. P is just golden! As a fellow Irishman it's great to see a bitta banter with him and Erickson :P
Their banter is priceless! It’s always fun to chat with A.P.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy absolutely! I love what you and all the other Malaztubers are doing. I started my second read through about a year back, interspersed with other books. This community wasn't here my first time around, I can't express how beneficial it is to my enjoyment and understanding of the series. You, A.P, Iskar, Mike have all been great community and entertainment during these times. Keep at it my friend.
@@koleary1798 Will do, and my thanks for the kind words and encouragement!
This conversation is pure gold. Great work!
Thank you! It was a huge pleasure to be part of it!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy The pleasure is mine, with all this great Malazan related content coming out now. Here, in Spain, we got The Crippled God recently translated and published, and some of us are still trying to get over it, so this discussions are really welcome.
Have a nice day!
@@victorpaleo Oh, that’s amazing! I wish you great fulfillment in reading The Crippled God!
Thank you Phillip for the video! It was great!
I’m very glad that you watched and enjoyed it, Diego!
Love the shoutout to Thich Nhat Hanh and Buddhism. Interesting interview!
Thanks! The Heart of the Buddha’s Teaching is one of the best and most peaceful books I ever read.
Awesomest talk! Thank you very much, gentlemen! One thing I've realised about the Malazan is that it reads like a documentary. Yeah, it's tough but it feels so real. E&E, your rule! A.P. is great in his own right as well, fantastic scholar.
Philip, many thanks for doing this, keep'em coming! I love your channel)))
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! I could listen to those two all day. I'll do my best to keep the content coming!
Love the little dig at George Martin 😂
10 years is a long time
It’s almost impossible to avoid the occasional little dig in that direction these days. Thanks for watching!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I’m a big Dune fan and I’m hoping on my first read of the Malazan books to be able to enjoy the same level of depth from a series.
The next Song of Ice and Fire book probably still won’t be finished by the time I finish them 😂
@@jameswitts3793 Ha ha! Unfortunately, you might be right. In the meantime, I hope you’ll love Malazan!
For years, GRR Martin has been using as an excuse that he can’t finish A Song of Ice and Fire because it’s “so complicated.” But Erikson wrote 10 super complicated books in 12 years.
@@TokyoBlue587 They are definitely rich and complex!
Oh, this was awesome! I can't believe how many things I have in common with AP :))) From my hatred of heat, to the toilet trials, to the problem with energy drinks (which I have stopped consuming years ago). This was an amazing conversation!
Thank you, Claudia! It’s good to know you enjoyed this because I have in turn enjoyed your interviews with Steven Erikson so much. He and A.P. were a joy to listen to.
Steve still won't let me drink energy drinks anywhere near him. I think he gets flashbacks to that car journey when there was literally no escape from my unfiltered brain chatter...
@@ACriticalDragon Well, I am forbidden from energy drinks and coffee alike. Not that I would come close to either one. My husband claims that my body creates caffeine out of thin air and that drinking coffee or energy drinks constitutes a dangerous overdose. I turn instantly into a mythical embodiment of anxiety, from talking a lot and fast, to moving around chaotically like a headless cockroach, to having wild ideas and threatening to act on them immediately, anything is possible, only to eventually slump down, nearly inert after a few hours of driving everyone insane :)))) But I think that witnessing your unfiltered brain chatter might be fun ;)
@@ACriticalDragon Ha ha! Oh, to be a fly on the window during one of those episodes...
@@claudiaiovanovici7569 I had a panic attack once caused by chronic hyperventilation from talking too much and too fast. That way I was breathing so wrong I had too much oxygen in my blood which does crazy stuff with your thoughts, which caused me to freak out. So yeah, I feel you 😉
I just finished viewing it, it was extremely beautiful and fun. It had serious topics and fun ones. It was refreshing and funny and I loved every minute of it. It's a fantastic formula, can't wait to see you all discussing again. Thank you Philip for this, thank you AP and thank you SE :) AP and Steve have a wonderful friendship, full of shenanigans and mischief, like a proper friendship must be :) . Everything I've seen here was heart warming and soothing for the soul and mind. I could listen to you guys forever. Thank you, again to all of you for this wonderful surprise. Lots of love to all of you!
I'm so glad you enjoyed the discussion! Also, I completely agree with you that the friendship between A.P. and Steve is wonderful, and I feel so lucky to have "witnessed" their exchanges. Definitely the highlight of 2020 for me!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I am super happy for you! You've been part of something amazing :) And also gave us this wonderful gift at the end of an year that was in many ways horrible, nerve wrecking and soul crushing. I cannot thank you enough for the wonderful content you provide. Please forgive me - I didn't mean to steal your thunder - I shared this on the two facebook Malazan groups that I am part of.
@@RoxanaMagdaD There is nothing to forgive! Quite the contrary -- I'm grateful that you found our discussion worth sharing. So, thank you for that, and thanks so much for all your support and kindness -- it means a great deal!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy you humble me with your modesty and your kindness. Thank you so much for the kind words!
It occurs to me, when Mr. Erikson talks about the lack of real-world shared knowledge between a fantasy author and their reader, that this may be part of why fantasy has a reputation for leaning on tropes more. Tropes are the shared nonreal world knowledge that an author and reader can lean on. Things like the existence of extramaterial realms, multiple intelligent humanoid races, what a dragon is like - these are tropes that an experienced fantasy reader brings with them into a new novel and take the place of real world knowledge like how cars or guns work and what new york looks like.
That's a great insight, Colin! You're absolute right that tropes are fantasy shorthand, understood by fantasy fans everywhere, and they are probably necessary in these imagined worlds to give us some grounding. Of course, when an author handles these tropes really well, it's usually by putting his or her unique stamp on them. Dragons are a great example -- think of the variety of dragons you can find in fantasy, and yet there are some common elements that tell us, "This is a dragon," which will elicit certain emotional responses. Sometimes a really great author will do something entirely original with the tropes, causing us to see them and understand them in ways we didn't before. Thanks for the excellent comment!
Wow, I had never thought about this before! Very interesting idea - thank you!
Really interesting interview Philip. Especially enjoyed the discussion on using fantasy to show different sides of a real-world scenario, with no prior-assumptions from the reader. I find the overlooking of fantasy as a genre baffling, as it has so much potential to let readers see points of view they wouldn't normally have. More interesting is that people do appreciate fiction in general for this, just not the fantasy subgenre, perhaps its viewed as not being "realistic" enough to do so?
Honestly, the snobbery toward fantasy baffles me too, especially when you consider that “fantasy” is the oldest form of storytelling. And there, perhaps, I’ve stumbled on an answer, which is that the privileging of “realism” could be yet another way in which moderns assert their superiority over the past, those benighted times when people told silly stories about gods and magic. Of course, that belief expresses ignorance of just how beautifully those old stories served those people in making sense of life.
What a pleasant surprise to end the year on! Did not expect when you said this might happen it would be your next video. 😆
I do hope it's gratifying for Steven that his books are garnering this attention at the moment, even if it is a bit late. Although us fans are quite numerous, a more widespread acknowledgement by the public and academia seems appropriate to me.
And I hope all this attention will help his works outside the main Malazan books as well!
The discussion about authors and academic research is interesting. As a simple reader I tend to disregard what I might know about an author when reading mostly so I can appreciate a story on its own merits.
When it comes to academic interpretation however, I can see direct contact with authors can be both very valuable and fraught with pitfalls. Depending on the author much of the inspiration, influences and writing process can be very personal information, possibly even subconscious. Digging into that can't be easy for either side.
When it comes to interpreting work all information is of value, however. So getting it from the source will always be good.
Even if I don't believe everything an author says about their work should always be taken as gospel.
Loved this, and do hope all three of you will resume this discussion once you and AP have covered all the rest of the books - and I do hope you two will continue on beyond the Books of the Fallen. Kharkanas, Rejoice and no doubt the upcoming books all certainly warrant deeper understanding as well.
For now a big thank you three times over, and hope the new year will be wonderful to you all.
PS; I'm a Next Generation guy, and Discovery isn't up to scratch 😉
Thank you, Rob! Yes, I’m pretty amazed at how this year is ending for the channel, and I hope it’s a sign of things to come. None of it would happen without the viewers. Forgive me, but I had to chuckle at your description of yourself as a “simple reader.” You could more than hold your own in any academic discussion, especially one on fantasy! I also enjoyed what both Steve and A.P. had to say about an author’s relationship with readers in the matter of critical interpretation, and I tend to come down in a place similar to the one you articulated. I imagine that it’s hard for authors to bite their tongue sometimes, but perhaps that’s why many choose not to engage much with fans. That’s another thing I truly admire about Steven Erikson- by engaging with his readers, he’s also acknowledging the importance of their views. And, yes, I hope he’s enjoying the long overdue and richly deserved recognition. Happy new year to you, my friend!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
Happy new year to you as well 😊 I'm sure the channel will proceed to bigger and better things , both those within your imaginings and beyond 🤓
I'm sure most authors find that adding too much of their own interpretations and explanations to the conversation about their work offers more risks than rewards. Like with all forms of art the individual experience of, and meaning found in the work adds something that is easier to diminish than to increase. Keeping their comments restricted to inspirations and methods preserves the mystery and integrity of the work.
As the Malazan books themselves throws in doubt the completeness and truth of any individual experience I have no doubt that the author can appreciate any and all earnest interpretations. Erikson smiling and nodding at the mention of all the various booktubers, and the mention of 'villains' and Lorn in particular in this conversation supports that 😉
@@robpaul7544 Most definitely! Erikson’s support for all of us fledgling BookTubers has been a joy.
If anything I want to apologize to Mr.Erikson I didn't start his series earlier, actually, I'm disappointed in myself that I didn't. What finally pushed me to start this great series tbh is a selfish reason.
I spent years building my own fantasy world and I wanted to learn how to put what I worked very hard on to paper and to learn how to write in general as someone with English as his second language. Starting Gardens of the moon I was amazed at how rich this book is, each chapter presented me with a treasure box of words and sentences for me to work on and analyze. The insight I got from the books I read so far can't be measured, not to mention the character work and philosophical concepts are just a delight and a treat to the reader. I went through most of this masterpiece in the last few months, and I don't even need to finish to just go on record without a doubt in my mind and say The Malazan world is one of the best if not the best fantasy had to offer in my opinion. As soon as I'm finished with The Crippled God I'm going to get back to writing my novel again I'm sure the second draft will be much better because of Malazan and Mr.Erikson... Truly, Thank you!!
You make an excellent point that any aspiring writer should pay attention to: read! Read great books, read broadly, and read a lot. I wish you the best with your writing!
What a way to start Sunday morning coffee w. this interview w. Erikson and A.P! This interview is thought-providing to re-think how Fantasy genre could be perceived from the reading experience.
The main takeaway for me is that Fantasy genre can be explored more seriously, if one were to examine beyond the abstractions of magic, monsters and demos, one could potentially introspect a deeper layer of meanings of lives, which is a wondrous discovery in my "beginner" level of Fantasy reading journey that merely started less than 2 years ago. I'm so glad that I'm a "tiny bit" leveled up, to be reading Chapter 14 of Gardens of the Moon currently.
After hearing other topics discussed around Malazan series, I'm utterly intrigued and convinced to be devoting more time to finish the series, slowly :-), in the next year or 2. Ha ha...
Thanks Philip for the wonderful video. Moving onto your other videos next. :-)
I’m glad you enjoyed this discussion, Benjamin! The idea that some fantasy is worthy of critical exploration was the main premise behind my channel and also the Fantasy Novels course I teach. The Malazan Book of the Fallen is exhibit A as proof of this premise. It’s a wonderful series with so much to offer someone ready to read and analyze it. I wish you much joy in your reading!
Ten very big books is an awesome channel. I love listening to noobs talk about how much they hate the series. That channel definitely captures the average audience reader quite well.
Yes, I need to listen to their podcasts more! I've included them in the description too -- thanks for mentioning them!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I discovered they have 5 hours worth of interviews with Erickson. Absolutely should be listened too. This complements the more academic approach you take with laymen interviews. I like listening to both because I get a complete picture of what Erickson was intending. Anyone that is struggling to understand why the stories are written they were should check these interviews out.
@@richardmartin7904 I’m definitely going to listen to them all. Thanks!
It’s amazing to see others discover this series that really dominated my love of fantasy for over a decade.
And as always, props to Steven for being so willing to engage with his audience! Follow him on Facebook if you want to get more from the horse’s mouth.
Absolutely! He’s active on Facebook, which has actually brought me back to Facebook after ignoring it for a long time. He posts some lovely essays there, among other things.
You have absolutely annihilated it with this end of the year content! What a fantastic interview!
Thank you! I feel pretty damn lucky at the moment. Honestly, it was probably the best conversation I’ve ever had.
I can't wait to start reading the series
I hope you’ll enjoy it, Poulam!
Before the Famine we had roughly 8 million people now it's just above 5 million. Great talk, I'm on Deadhouse Gates right now and really enjoying it so far.
Thanks for that confirmation - there’s some real history and tragedy behind those numbers, not to mention a testament to will. I’m so glad you enjoyed the chat! A.P. and I just had our spoiler free discussion of Deadhouse Gates.
I've been telling anyone with ears for nearly a decade, since I first discovered this series, that this series is hand down the best fantasy I've ever read. All respect to those that paved the way and are great in their own right, but malazan is so far above the rest there is no comparison.
Now that I’m into my reread, I see where you’re coming from. With the first read, I knew intellectually the series was brilliant. Now, it’s hitting me on an emotional level as well, and I’m blown away.
I gotta say that erikson, just behind sanderson is the most thoughtful author when it comes to talking to the audience. Totally different style of engagement obviously, but it's wonderful to see authors speak and interact with their fans, I wish more would do this sort of thing
Ken liu is another one I've seen a lot of recently
I agree, Sean - hearing an author discuss their work adds layers of appreciation to the reading experience. I love watching such interviews and discussions!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy sanderson is the king of this stuff. Does spoiler live streams. Used yɛ be SUPER active on reddit, does weekly updates with progress of each book (he's 28% done with stormlight archive 5 as of right now) among other things.
Despite being the most prolific modern fantasy author, and arguably the most popular, he still takes the time to have interaction with his fans regularly, and is more transparent than any author around.
He's my favorite author, but I can say his books aren't the best I've ever read (minus a handful)
He's just such a great dude, I owe him a lot and hope to meet him to let him kbpw when I was deep in depression and suicidal, I kept telling myself I wanted to finish the cosmere as a whole, so I used that as a reason to go on. No other author has done that for me. And I'm sure I'm not alone.
@@seanhalpin87 He does seem like a great guy, and he’s done a LOT for the fantasy genre, bringing in a lot of new fantasy readers.
I don’t think the term “hate boner” applies better to anything than to Steve’s hatred for Star Trek: Discovery.
Ha ha! I think A.P. shares his opinion on that series!
It wouldn't have been that bad if it wasn't Star Trek.
Loved this, thank you so much!
I’m so glad you enjoyed it!
I'm angry with myself that I kept this video in "Watch Later" for a long time. It's always pleasure to listen to Mr. Erikson, and now that two of you joined him, it was two levels higher. Please repeat this for every book you read (once a month?).
Better late than never! I’m so glad you enjoyed the video, and I must say it was a huge pleasure and honor for me to be part of this conversation. We definitely hope Steven Erikson will return to chat with us!
It’s quite sad hearing Erikson speak of The Crippled God receiving little fanfare/response upon its release. It seems like he is now getting more of the recognition he deserves.
I certainly hope he feels that way. I, for one, will be shouting about his writing for the rest of my life.
Thanks for this amazing interview!
My pleasure, and thank you for watching!
I'll be brief: this made my day. As illuminating as it was entertaining. Keep up the good work, Philip!
So glad to hear it! A.P. and Steve were a wonderful combination of fun and tremendously articulate about Malazan and fantasy and even speculative fiction in general.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Yes. It was very good. One thing stood out for me: what A.P. said about fantasy. How you can say something pertinent about the world by creating another one that illuminates it. What Tolkien would call 'applicability'. It gives writer and reader freedom from a media-filtered and moulded 'reality' and from history as it, often slanted, is passed on to us. I knew exactly what he was saying.
(I myself give realistic fiction a fantasy treatment by creating an alternative Netherlands, even two of them, that cast light on each other, and on the Netherlands in which my reader lives.)
@@JohanHerrenberg That was one of my favorite moments in the chat too. I truly believe that fantasy has so much to offer in terms of our conception of the "real world" and how we can wrestle with very real problems. The alternate Netherlands sound like interesting places to visit!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Ha! A few critics were of the opinion my country had gone mad in my work... !
ChildofHonour from Discord here! You're spoiling us with this Malazan content haha!
Ha ha! That’s my goal!
Gotta love getting to fanboy. Glad you were able to hold this and props to it not being a stale “Where’d you get your inspiration?” interview.
This was my best experience on UA-cam so far, and I’ve had some amazing ones. It was also great to have the dynamic between Steve and A.P. with their priceless stories.
I want to see AP & Steven hang out more. Now I get why he writes buddies that argue so well :)
Ha ha! That’s for sure!
This is extremely refreshing. I have immense respect for Steven Erikson.
As do I - glad you enjoyed the video!
Awesome interview! I love both of those gentlemen and am looking forward to anything that sheds more light on their thoughts processes!!! Thank you 😊
I had a blast being the third person in that discussion! Such a great friendship between those two!
You've officially achieved Dreamland material, nothing else would surpass this...
...
Could you by any chance bring Ian as well?
It still feels surreal to me! I would most certainly love to have Ian Esslemont join A.P. and me at some point. Definitely a goal!
AP flexing that Sub Press Gardens of the Moon in the background lol
He’s got the whole set. I want them. 😁
ICFA’s the best! Looking forward to the virtual conference this month, but super excited to (hopefully) gather in person next year!
I hope to attend in 2022 as well!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Awesome. I’ll look out for you. Maybe I’ll even manage to keep my promise to Steve Erikson and read at least some of Malazan before then....
@@paulwilliams6913 Sounds like a plan!
Genius Writer.
Agreed!
Hi, just wanted to say that I think your channel is really great. A.P. is a very nice and, competent interlocutor (like Erikson too), I also subscribed to his channel, as well as other youtubers who report on Erikson and the Malazan Empire. I've been a fan of Steven Erikson's books for a long time now, and I'm glad to see that there are more and more youtubers which are fans and love the books like me. I read “The Gardens of the Moon” for the first time in 2012 when I was still studying at university. This is the third time I'm reading the book and I'm still discovering new things. Unfortunately, the Malazan empire is still an insider tip among fantasy fans, I hope that will change in the future.
Thanks so much! I’m glad our discussions resonate with you and other longtime fans of the series. On my first reread, I have a good idea what you mean about discovering new things - I’m also feel a depth of emotional connection that is really satisfying.
Interesting to hear authors, and one who is an academic, talk about literary analysis and criticism. I have never understood any paradigm of analysis that doesn't make the author's intentions central. As in, what the author had in mind to communicate, is what it means (meaning can of course be poorly communicated, or misunderstood for many reasons). I take this as axiomatic when reading. Interesting to hear that even Erikson felt the need to provide an explanation of "contextualization" to defend the author's place in analysis.
I certainly pay attention to an author’s intentions, if they are something I can figure out. Often enough it’s guesswork in my case since my day job is being a medievalist. But, for example, knowing that the author of Beowulf was almost certainly a Christian looking back at his pagan ancestors informs my interpretation of the poem and influences the way I read certain scenes. In that sense, even an anonymous and long dead author is “alive” in the text. Cheers, Brian!
Thanks Mr erickson!!!! I have read the series and esselmonts series repatedly!!!! This is the best out there, you even beat Tolkien
He is incredibly gracious to interact with his fans this way -- I'm certainly grateful! And, yes, the world that he and Esslemont created together is unparalleled.
Thanks for dropping a line to me, I appreciate it. I am on possibly my 5th or 6th read thru of everything, I just started gardens again this week, I think I am finally getting a hold of the malazan universe. Have a happy new year, go by my channel and watch this crazy customer attack me with a butcher knife 🔪
@@stuskinner4305 Happy new year to you too!
I will definitely reread the story of apto canavalian soon, probably even this week.
And no doubt you’ll read it with fresh eyes! Ha ha!
I have just made it to the point where you speak about Malaz island and Malazan and the pronunciation of it, and I could help giggle thinking of how someone like me (and the many Italians and Spanish and French), who speaks a Romance language, reads it differently, and how an inhabitant of Malaz would still be a Malazan, but it would sound different :))) It's been fun so far, listening to the interview :)
That’s a great point about how people in both our world and people in the Malazan world who speak various languages would pronounce the word differently. I’m glad you’ve enjoyed the discussion so far!
I love Malazan. Cant get enough of the content as of late. I have been enjoying the Ten Very Big Books shows as well, and Erikson has done an episode with them for each book.
Finished The Crippled God about a month ago. Cant wait to reread the series in time, as well as the Kharkanas and Karsa trilogies.
Awesome! I loved Forge of Darkness and Fall of Light, and I can’t wait for book 3 of Kharkanas as well as the new trilogy when it comes out. So many amazing stories in this world! Thanks for watching!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy is the book 3 of kharkanas triology is coming out Philip?
@@romanbatista3286 I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think it’s coming out soon. I do know that Erikson is reading the proofs for the first book in the new trilogy that takes place after The Malazan Book of the Fallen, which means it should be out relatively soon. My impression is that he’s going back to book three of Kharkanas after that.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy it is about karsa if I am not wrong and he is not abandoning the kharkanas series , is he ? And many people said crippled god ending was disappointing , but it is it true ?
@@romanbatista3286 The new trilogy does feature Karsa, but I’ve heard that Karsa doesn’t actually appear in the first book. I’m very certain that Erikson will finish Kharkanas. Personally, I loved the way Malazan ended in The Crippled God. However, I will say that, with Erikson, it’s better not to expect a conventional ending. To me, it was simply brilliant.
Oh, the IAFA. Haven't thought of that in ages. I went there in the 90s as a grad student. Such a good time. Met Donaldson and Pohl there. Love to go back someday.
It starts on March 16 this year, I think! I’m hoping to go this year for the first time.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy it was a great time. Always love to see genre fiction treated seriously.
@@skippen I hope to find that out soon. Cheers!
He did it, the madman did it!!! Congrats!!!
Thank you!!!
That shout out to Iskar and Mike was top tier class act. Thanks to you for your amazing videos!!!
@@alejandroga666 Thanks! It was only fitting since the two of them are so generous to all of us.
the way AP and Erikson riff on each other is priceless. I would love to be a passenger in a car with them on a long road trip and just listen in on their banter
Same here! In fact, that’s kind of how I felt during this discussion, and I enjoyed every bit of it!
I just started Memories of Ice for Mikes read along. Last night. 25 pages in whoop whoop!
Awesome! Enjoy!
Thank you great conversation with 3 educated people
Thank you!
Steve's dry wit cracks me up haha!
Same here! It’s like seeing the humor in the books play out in the real world.
"steve is meticulous about planning"
ya don't say...?
I suppose it might take some planning to write those wee books!
Wow, great interview! I'm so glad I checked out your channel. Love it ...
I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Since Gaiman was mentioned in the academic conference/convention bit twice, I think Gaiman's Sandman has been tremendously detrimental to the medium as a whole just because of academia's obsession with not looking past his work. I really had to push my friends a lot to move past Sandman (and Watchmen, Persepolis) to move to more stuff in the medium. Finally designed the module and started exploring Perez, Azarello, and Rucka's treatment of Wonder Woman for my friends to teach to their students, because that is somehow basic yet somewhat familiar for everyone for me to recommend this and get away with it. Hopefully, I might decide to teach Astro City myself next year but, yeah, academia ended up using Gaiman's Sandman to created this aura of canon legitimisation, which is basically a nice way of describing gatekeeping.
Someone, I imagine, must have done an interesting study of the process of gatekeeping and canonization. Very few authors of speculative fiction appear in the literary anthropologies we use to teach literature courses. Gaiman is one, and Le Guin is another. Shirley Jackson if you count horror, and the list gets a bit longer if you count gothic, like Poe. You’ll find courses on Tolkien, and some of us find ways to include fantasy in our research (many of those are medievalists like myself), so there’s been some movement toward broadening the tent, but perhaps it’s more token than I’d like to think, as your example of Gaiman might show. Thanks for watching and commenting!
A wonderful discussion on author reader relationsship. And of course the complete discussion between the three of you was a blast to listen to.
I do differ a bit with SE about the difficulty of writing fantasy and other fiction though. I think it's easy to write fantasy, but hard to write good fantasy that is theme heavy and can be seen as a reflection of the world. For example, like the story you told in a previous video about the city where they had to sacrifice one persons life to enjoy life. It is a shame that these kind of stories do not occupy more of literature discourse. On the other hand, a contemporary or fictious story within the real world has benefits, as everything is known, but it also has drawbacks, as the writer will have to struggle with preconceptions of the reader. I think this is one of the reasons why the scify book Rejoice from SE didnt do as well, as expected. The book is seen, in many reviews, as a celebration of socialism/marxism as the alien provides for everything, while country leadership is often seen as inept (in the book). It's a nice set up, but I am wondering how many people will read and continue with any forthcoming books in this series.
Thanks for adding some nuance to this topic! You are definitely right that thematically driven literature of any sort demands more from the writer (and reader) than stories told primarily to entertain. And, as A.P. pointed out in our previous discussion, there’s a place for theme heavy fantasy as well as escapist fantasy (and the same applies to any genre). Great comments, and thanks much for watching!
So it took ten years for this Malazan revival to really bloom - I hope it will be sooner before Rejoice gets the recognition it deserves in my opinion.
Just shouting socialist/marxist is too shallow, even if it might be understandable, and reviewers who stop there do the book a disservice. Especially since those terms still have a pretty negative impact particularly on the North American market.
@@robpaul7544 I’ll be reading Rejoice once I finish everything in the Malazan world. Great to hear from you!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy
I know your tbr is overflowing - whose isn't, right? 😂
Came across this comment as I was watching and Erikson mentioned dropping books into Silence.. and I hope so much that Rejoice gets the attention I feel it deserves without it taking one or more decades.
@@robpaul7544 If the cover has the name Steven Erikson on it, I’m going to read it!
Awesome!! Can’t wait to watch this
I hope you enjoy it!
Loved this. In particular, I would love to hear more about Donaldson in general and the influences on Erikson and Esslemont. I read Cook before Erikson and I think he's the one who gets cited more often as being an influence, but then I read the Covenant books and I began to realize how many homages to Donaldson were in their books. And to think I used to think Erikson used the word "febrile" a little much...
Ha ha! Yes, every author has his or her favorite words. I’ve heard people complain about the frequent appearance of the word “potsherds” in Malazan. Erikson and Esslemont are both archeologists, so that being a favorite makes sense. I’m reading a book now where the characters are always “snorting,” making me wonder what the author thinks the word means! I’m so glad you enjoyed our discussion!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I was bothered by that one too until I read up on the etymology of it. Also, I forgot to add that I’ve always wondered if Febryl is a play on febrile.
@@cabell1408 That seems an appropriate association!
A.P. gives an excellent synopsis at 53:35 of what sets the characterization in MBoTF, apart from some of the simplistic "Hero worship" writing of the good vs evil stereotypes found in some fantasy
And after that, he and Steven Erikson tell some really funny stories about a couple other characters - each other!
Indeed, the population of Ireland (Republic of and Northern combined) is around 2 million less now than at its height in the 1840s. Of note is that while the populations of the urban centres (Dublin and Belfast) grows the fastest, that in the Western counties (the most rural) continues to fall.
Thank you for confirming that! There’s a great deal of history behind that fact too, of course, and while this may not be the place to expound on it, it’s certainly important to be aware of. Great to hear from you, Neil!
This is awesome, thanks Philip!
Thanks so much for watching!
Oh, THAT'S how it's pronounced, and the WHY of it. Now it all makes sense. Because I was going to keep just calling it what I liked, but now the switch flipped.
It flipped for me too! 😁
Is there a secret warren constantly refilling mr. Eriksons coke? Thought he went for the last sip like seven times... Jokes aside, I love this content. As a non-native english speaker, Malazan is a challenge; but the many rewards make it a worthwhile endeavor. It's fascinating to experience a work of fiction that feels truly endless in its possible interpretations. Eriksons world is truly awesome, and I feel like it'll continue to amaze me through my entire life.
Ha ha! If anyone has a secret warren, it would be Steven Erikson, right? You’re absolutely right about Malazan being a story that will reward you for life. I suspect you could keep rereading it again and again and still gain new insights. Thanks for watching!
Regarding lack of mysogeny in the books (unless its intended by specific cultures/people) its great, that Malazan do not hit you in the face with it. Malazan empire treats woman as equal to man, including the army, and it is so obvious to everyone in that world, that it's not even being discussed. It's just there.
It’s interesting how both Malazan authors decided to build that into the world they were gaming as far back as the 1980s. Very cool!
SE brings an interesting point about having to write in a real life event and to bury it deep so that the reader reads with without the influence of pre existing bias/prejudice. It works for specific events but generally people also tend to have bias towards certain actions irrespective of the event. They would tend to lean towards compassion or bravery and other actions they would consider "noble" This is where writing/reading morally grey characters becomes so fascinating. To be able to write a character well to such an extent that the reader likes or supports a character despite knowing all the flaws they possess is not easy.
Exactly right, and we’ll said! And it takes some know how to write such a character.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Exactly. I didn't finish this series but whatever I've read, it never really felt like this character is a hero and this character is a villain. He writes it in such a way that it always felt like they are just people with opposing agenda.
It could also be about how we perceive a character and their actions (or rather how the author makes us perceive them) Taking an example from first law, if we really look at it, at the core both Logan and Black Dow are the same. They are both cold blooded killers. But we view one character positively and one character negatively because of the way Logan is presented to us.
@@KakashiHatake-ou7mp That’s an excellent example. The short story “Made a Monster” in the collection Sharp Ends shows a very different Logen, a younger one as seen by Bethod. That story makes it clear where his reputation came from!
Simply amazing chat.
Thanks! Honestly, I felt amazed the whole time to be part of it.
This is so cool, Philip! Way to go!
Thank you! I'm so glad you enjoyed it!
Just finished Malazan, and have now decided to move onto the Stormlight series. By all accounts it’s also an exceptional series, but I’m worried that Malazan may have set the bar too high :o
That’s something I’ve heard quite a few times! I do think there’s a place for various types of stories, but it can require you shifting gears in your brain a bit. Happy reading!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thanks Philip. I'm a couple chapters into it and can say it's already got me engrossed.
@@TOM-os9rk Cool!
Fun talk! Was this the origin of calling AP Professor Fireballs? (I’m going through your older Malazan videos as I build up the courage to read the series!)
It’s not quite the origin, but it’s important background information leading to the bestowal of the name upon him. I can’t recall which video it was (one of the middle books), but it was on my channel. He “gave” me my nickname in the beginning, and I returned the favor at the end. Cheers, Josh!
the last 20 minutes of this conversation might as well be an entirely new novel series, set in modern day earth, as written by Steven Erikson. he's hitting all the points noted by every reader of MBOTF. leaving info behind, meticulous planning, revenge plot, long travels.... it's all there, baby!
It was also a ton of fun to listen to those two for the last twenty minutes!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy this was incredibly lucky of you. i feel more motivated than ever to start a malaztube channel, i wanna talk to Steve one day! (although if i'm to do this, i suppose i better get on it quick, idk how long he will entertain the newbies with answering questions, especially once we get to a point where all the questions have been asked and answered - to the degree SE would be comfortable answering them, at least!)
@@billyalarie929 You are so right - I do feel extremely lucky to have been part of this discussion. Erikson is an amazing and incredibly unassuming person, not to mention kind. I hope you’ll get your chance to speak with him someday!
Steve is totally the straight man to A.P.'s comic relief haha
You can tell they've been friends since forever!
It was a joy to take part in this conversation mainly because of their friendship - a lot of fun!
I am not sure what Steven Erikson's Malazan stories make fly after all this time. But I'd wish the same could happen to the late David Gemmell who was also a master story teller ... and whose stories could be contained in a single book :)
Gemmell is on my long term TBR. I hear great things about his work!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasyBeing an 80s child, Legend and the Jon Shannow novels hold a cozy and nostalgic place in my memory. You will not regret pushing them on the top of your reading stack.
22:00 one advantage of having the authors is that you can tell how many "the curtains were blue" moment there were!
Indeed!
Really nice 👍
Thank you!
Anyone else realize AP wrote a paper on Gauntlet?
Warrior needs Valkyrie......badly.
AP tour of your bookshelf
I wish!
The Shakespearean academic, would give their arm and leg to meet William in person and discuss his literature and then they would leave with hung shoulders, extremely disappointed.
Quite possibly, you're right! Shakespeare might be surprised at the modern worship of him, but he was a darn good entertainer.
Hey Dr Chase! A bunch of the channel links in the description aren't working for me - 404'ing out. Not sure what's wrong and if it's on my end or yours, but might want to double check.
(And One again, wow, what a discussion thanks so so much for having us along)
Thanks, Zan! That's what I get for copying and pasting them en masse, trying to save time. I'll put them in individually. I appreciate you letting me know!
Oh wow, another author chat!
You can never have too many!
Rabbits mine in their own humble way. They make "warrens", but lets not go down that rabbit hole.
🤣🤣🤣
I finally made it and loved it!
Awesome!