Wow, you way of explaining things (searching through your memory, looking for the right word, trying to tie all up together) is VERY much like the way I talk when I'm asked a question on the spot about something I have been mulling over for a while, yet haven't really verbalised it out loud. It is HARD to get the message across swiftly and accurately enough. Intuition is great, because it is an internal/immaterial/visual process: there are NO boundaries in how far you can leap. But it is also important to work on communicating its conclusions whenever the time arises. I always shy away from sharing my half-baked theories unless I have a rock solid amount of data to back it up (i.e multiple examples occurrences I have witnessed in my own past). Otherwise, I just sit back, absorb and wrestle with what I hear/read/see, until the famous EUREKA moment comes! :) With sensors, I find that ONLY ESFPs and ISTPs are open-minded enough to listen to my random spinning of thoughts. They bounce of it and laugh at the craziness, which is very humbling. All the other sensors I know look at me like ?_? as if to say: "You have too much -useless- imagination." That was another fabulous topic to address! ;p
I was JUST discussing this with my ENFP husband. Sensors tend to just give us a pat on the head and send us on our way as if we were crazy. We have put SO much careful time planning, thinking, organizing ect that we often come up with THE answer. When we share it with Sensors, they scorn us to shame. This leads to especially the INFJ feeling purposeless and their advice for the sake of others to be squelched. This is our whole driving force in life and so if that gets squashed? Suicide looks appealing. That is super dark and I've been there many times (growing up with basically all sensors..basically like Lucy in Chronicles of Narnia...no one believes you) but thankfully Jesus rescued me and I have purpose apart from helping others/problem solving. So when that house of cards fall (people fail me and ridicule my love for them) I hold to Jesus understanding exactly how He made me and rewarding me for my love even when it gets rejected for He knows EXACTLY what that's like.
SPOT ON. INTP is here 👋🏻 and the way I explain is the same like his, and my man is an ISFP. He is the only person who is always listening to my random thoughts 😩😩😭😭
It is esoteric. Thats why people think intps' are stupid and/ or manically delusionional. I theorise that intuition is holistic and abstract and most people are very concrete and compartmentalised in their thoughts. We intuitively can infer the common denominator while they cant connect the dots. I have gotten alot better at communication because of this. I have learned to express and articulate my thoughts alot better, but I still feel like I'm living in the tower of babble often enough still.
My experience is similar. I think people usually lead with their lead function. Like an ISFP will recall and articulate things through her Fi. As an INTP everything has to be substantiated by a knowledge base, as we through life this knowledge base is challenged and reformatted (it has to be) In congruence, since there are more feelers than INTPs it makes more sense for us to learn and care for the feelers in our life. A few healthy mechanisms, start a journal, just because people misunderstand doesnt mean your idea is a false or bad idea. Nourish your inferior function, struggling with this atm, picked a strong Fe as my rolemodel and ask that question wwrbd, what would Richard Branson do?
I am not an INTP, (ENFP here), but I think I can understand what you are getting across. It's almost like a squirrel who has been gathering nuts for winter; he gathers them and then stores the many nuts in different locations, here, there and everywhere. Then when winter comes, and you then see him frantically digging around in areas that look ridiculous, he will actually, eventually come up with a nut. With the INTP way of thinking, it seems that they have all of these nuts they've gathered about people, situations, events, memories, studies, etc. and they have them kind of stored here there and everywhere. The INTP seems to gather and store bits of information like a squirrel does acorns, and pulls them together to build conclusions that will satisfy and sustain them throughout their time of need or whim of their situation, be it personal or social. They are natural at effortlessly being able to pull bits of information from situations, sometimes without even realizing it, and storing them away. And like the squirrel, they seem to have an almost preternatural way of recalling exactly where each pertinent nut is buried with very little effort, like a detailed, spider-webbing map in his brain. I could be totally soft, and if I am, tell me. But with the INTP friends and family I have, this seems pretty much how I've perceived their thought processes to be.
ENFP: gathers acorns INTP: builds automated warehouse for said acorns Allegory aside, meh sure. Instead of layers let's call them categories, otherwise we'll have layers on top of layers, which we do. But then you end up with an ocean deep of layers, undercurrents, and wildlife. And the only example i can think of is probably Indra's web. Imagine, every acorn is a drop in a web, and you can see every drop reflected on every drop.
Very accurate! There is a caveat to this however... sometimes we have system overload at times and we remember where 18 of the 20 nuts are and their connections... creating gaps in the whole picture which can reflect badly on our recall sometimes. This can create a perception of non continuity of the finished product... sometimes it makes INTP’s look scattered or noncoherant.
The simple answer is that intuition is gathering information and seeing what pattern that information fits... all subconsciously. We don't realize we're forming these conclusions. It's almost like instinct or our gut reaction. If something is off the pattern, intuitives can see right through it. (Such as a lie). I tend to gather information quickly by observing before choosing to interact with a person. If I get bad "vibes" from a person or my intuition is telling me that they are not a good fit for my personality (as a friend, acquaintance, or what have you) then I bounce. lol I think INTPs and INFJs have a lot of similarities. Your intuition is just guided differently than mine. Yours is extroverted, and your pattern formation is more linear. Mine is introverted and more of a bubble map of clues that I use to form one main idea about a person. Typically, I am correct.
I always like the way to to describe (mbti) intuitives as "abstract ", and sensory people "concrete" . The way "abstract people" observe reality is that they to spot the patterns in life, whether it be about people or things. They like to find the hidden formula that makes things the way they are. So instead of remembering all the numbers themself, they ditch the numers and look for the formula behind it al. Once the formula is stored, new information (in this example numbers) can be throw into the formula, and there is the outcome. This method is especially good for predicting things in the future. Sensors on the other hand will try to remember the numbers themelves, but will not look into (or see) the formula that created these numbers in the first place. Obviously this makes it possible for 'abstract people' to be able to predict future outcomes alot better than "concrete people", unless the concrete person is very experienced in the specific field or the task at hand is too simple to spend time on thinking about it. Concrete people will only literally remember something they have done in the past, and based on the outcome, will repeat it again or not, but are less able to predict outcomes if circumstances are changed. They rely very much on literal experience and thus are not able to look into the future of a concept, because they've never been able to experience that concept themself , so they have no idea about it. Since they can not construct the formulas behind these things in life, they talk very differently and less phrone to overthink situations or things and tend to just act upon it. In their mind there is not that much to think about, since only literal experiences are stored and the outcome of their thoughts does not require much thought processing and thus time. They just take the data out of the storage that is very related to the subject, and then based on the previous outcomes, will now make a new choice. An intuitive can endlessly get caught up in the world of building the formulas , since there are endless types of formulas that one can form in order to create a good abstract model of reality. Because of this difference in reasoning, sensors tend to value 'experience' more and intuitives (raw) intelligence (IQ).
That's not true, the power of abstract lateral reasoning is not intuition, even if this nonsense becomes the common assertion of what "intuition" is. In actuality, *intuition is the spark that pulls your imagination toward new forms of realization.*
it's kind of like summing a person up quickly through a certain phrase they used or a certain word captures my attention - like it stands out from what they're trying to say on the surface. My mind grabs it and then cycles it through the instances I've witnessed the word being used or analyze the possible motives why the word was used. It isn't always with words ..it can be with mannerisms or clothes. it stands out from the picture that they're trying to portray... I think this is intuition? i've been told I jump to conclusions by SJs too. I have a question!: Do you and your INTP friend jump to the same conclusions about a thing or have you ever intuited the same thing about someone? I don't know another intp personally and I wonder about that...
Sounds like it! It's always so weird trying to explain it. To your question, yes actually! And if not, we share aspects the other may have missed and sometimes we will end up in the same place anyway. Very rarely do we have stark different conclusions, especially if we dialogue about it.
The thought process you are describing seems to be Si. Si users have an internalized image of what something is supposed to do or look like based on a blend of personal experience, convention, and what they have seen the object do in the past. Si is refining in nature and is ever building towards the perfect model in their head. You could imagine how this thought process would make Si users good detectives. They may have an easier time sniffing out a lie because the person's behavior does not fit the internalized model of how that behavior should be. Intuition in general, is oblivious(both Ni and Ne). An intuitive doesn't care who said what. They care only to summarize the ideas of the person as part of an adventure of the mind....at least that's Ne anyway. Ni is just weird lol. An Ni user looks at the world as if it is a poem to be interpreted. They don't see a chair as a chair. They contemplate what the chair means about us. i.e. an Ni friend of mine once remarked on how spinning really high numbers in the game of life makes it more likely for you to lose. He then immediately made a connection to real life and said that you don't want to rush through life. In this intuitive behavior, you can see that he didn't really recognize the board game. Intuitives often under value the current moment of reality. They would rather think about what could be than what is. This may seem super cool to people but sensing is really useful if you want to actualize success-something intutive types often fail to do
When we think, it's like putting an input into a computer and coming out with millions of outputs, and then we carefully analyze them all until we can choose one we're comfortable with.
Good explanation. I personally have struggled with explaining intuition to people over the years. I assume that I m subconsciously working through my flow chart like analytical process. This must take place without my awareness. I simply know some things, with everything else,I think. When I think something, I can be wrong, but when I know something, it's usually right, or generally correct. I had a friend a few years back who asked me why she didn't consider sex to be especially meaningful in an emotional sense. I spoke without thinking and blurted out "Because you were molested by your youth pastor as a child. As a defense mechanism you devalued sex, because if someone takes something you don't care about, then you don't feel wronged." She turned white and said she hadn't told anyone that in 20 year. When she asked how I figured it out, I could only say, "You say nothing, but you sream it with every fiber of your being. I can't explain how I read people, but when I think, I can be wrong, when I know, on the other hand, I'm usually not." Gave her a good starting point with a therapist though.
With us intuitive, we tend so see analogies, or patterns and understand allegories (vis. allegories in Scripture). Now I agree with you that intuitive is difficult to explain as it is an abstract concept, but will now illustrate just one example as to how my own intuition work as an INTP myself: For instance when I read the Book of Genesis, I was able to see the similarity (analogy) between the serpent (Lucifer), whom tempted Even to eat the fruit of knowledge and Prometheus, whom stole the fire from Mount Olympus so man would no remain in ignorance. In the Greek mythology, against the wishes of Zeus, whom was the King of all the Gods, to take the fire so mankind would no longer remain ignorant and have the ability to engage in reason. Zeus became very angry at Prometheus so he order Hephaestus to chain him to a mountain. Now in Scripture, Lucifer tempted Eve to eat the fruit so they could acquire knowledge and become more like God Himself. God became angry at Lucifer so fast him away from Heaven just like the way Zeus did to Prometheus by casting him away from the heavens by tying him up to a mountain. So also what my intuition tells me that Lucifer and Prometheus are virtually the same being! Also bear in my that it doesn’t say any where in the book of Genesis that Lucifer had really any evil intent enticing mankind to acquire knowledge via fruit 🍉
I usually explain intuition and sensing in a... non creative way. I just say intuition is about thinking of possibilities and sensing is about paying attention to sensory details whether it’s from past or present experiences. I honestly don’t think that’s the best way though. I haven’t made the best decisions in life so I may have had a bit of a decrease in intelligence or memory or I’ve always been this stupid, I don’t know. I’ll be sure to check out your brothers channel. Also, I’m planning on trying to change the school system a bit, so it’s easier for people who prefer to use the introverted thinking function. Since it seems like they have a harder time connecting the information than extroverted thinking users. (Sort of) I’m not saying introverted thinking users are dumb... if that were true you’d be dumb because your an INTP but clearly INTPs are smarter than most people which I think the same goes for you. Honestly I don’t know if I’m a Ti user or a Te user, but I figured I’d ask, if you think explaining things more in-depth, sort of like a proof is a good idea. I think the only problem would be a lack of effort on the teachers end or the explanation itself possibly not connecting with all the Ti users. I’ve just noticed that common trend that Ti users typically have a harder time understanding certain topics even though they are much more capable of doing better. So what do you think of this? Do you think the school system is fine the way it is or do think it could use some changes?
Personally for me, school was very difficult (k-12) because I was trying to encompass a lot of information while others could take the surface value and move on. I tried to connect things to the greater picture, regardless of the subject at hand. Growing older, however, I grew the ability to have a greater understanding of what things are and can understand different concepts. For instance I took college algebra in college but I already took calculus in high school, but because the way how I process information was not fully developed, it was a miracle to stay around a C for a grade. When I took the college algebra course after 6 ish years of never touching math, I aced nearly every test and got an A in the class. There definitely are issues in the school system but a lot of issues were me and my way of processing. It would be great to cater to Ti users its just there are so many different types out there who have different learning styles. But if you test and see what works best, I trust you will do great things for changing the school system! :)
Cool thanks! Yeah I agree there are many different ways of learning which will probably be the hardest part about it. That or actually spreading it to more and more schools. Yeah math was the main reason why and how I came up with this idea since a lot of schools if not all, kind of just give like conceptual and sort of abstract, ways of thinking of math, or at least in elementary it seems but teachers don’t really go into why or how that particular subject connects to the other ones (or at least in my experience so far, I’m a only a sophomore in high school). And researching the functions and mbti made me realize how sucky the school system actually is. So yeah I think it’s great that people are trying to find different ways of teaching math but it seems like they’re searching in the wrong area or at least haven’t found the right solution yet.
+TheImpossibleQ? To be honest, I don't think it is just school, it is EVERYWHERE in life. The Western civilisation is all about "proving and performing", which means that Te and Se rule. No one believes you can do something UNLESS you have a diploma/certification: that's the basis for hiring someone. People refuse to entertain that certain things might exist simply because they haven't seen/touched/tasted/experienced them: that's where flat-earthers score their points. School is merely a snapshot of what life is about: learning how you fit in this system is essential for your survival/growth in the long run. Regarding maths, I hated maths in school. My teacher came across as a bulldozer who only knew how to write things in red on my paper, but NEVER could diagnose why I kept making the same mistakes over and over. Her job was to show me to theorems and formulas and my job was to used these theorems to.the.dot. But I wouldn't because the "HOW DOES IT FIT TOGETHER?" and "WHY?" was never addressed, so I ended up substituting/experimenting with what the mechanics of these formulas were, so much that I could NEVER memorise them entirely and ended up scraping C/55%/Pass sort of grades (not that I cared anyway). I enjoy Maths so much more now that I can relate it to Physics. But I don't think any Middle/High school teacher I've known/met could EVER teach Maths in a way that is appealing to students who aren't into Medical studies or Business Administration. They themselves were formatted by the system and tend to actively run away from going in depth into anything because they lack the energy/motivation/knowledge/dedication/time to address the full picture. Now, if you are in High school and you want higher chances of landing NT-friendly teachers, you could look into picking Chemistry, Physics, Computing, Linguistics and Philosophy. The other subjects are rife with SJs. Ps: I'm a Philosophy/Linguistics Graduate and an Educator. :)
Yes I agree with a lot of what you said but I believe it's possible that with some enthusiasm and analyzing, the school system or the general way people do things can change in a positive way. But Yes I agree, most of the world is all very Te and Se based, I've actually noticed that myself which is one of the reasons why I wanted to do this. The other reason is that my sister had that same problem of not understanding mathematics for those same reasons of, the teacher not explaining how or why it really makes sense or where it came from and just expecting an understanding or acceptance right after showing how to use it. Yeah I'm kind of going for something more philosophy based than just math and science. I'm not really sure if I'm a Te or Ti user but I think there's reason to suggest that I'm probably more of a Te user. I kind of liked just messing around and using the ideas and theorems and not really going to deep or trying to figure out why they actually work or make sense in the first place. Although now I am trying to do that because I think just getting an understanding of how it came to be is better for understanding the material more intuitively or just being able work things out on my own. In 6th grade I wondered about what those symbols and things really mean and wanted to learn about them but I never asked why or what it is. So yeah I'd just go along with what the teacher is saying instead of questioning it, I never liked drawing attention to myself so I always end up just going with what the teacher says. Later after 8th grade ended I came across a channel called Numberphile and looking at some of the proofs I realized that somethings I probably wouldn't understand right now even if I wanted to so I gained a more appreciation of math. Someone in a video I watched later, I think it was about how the method called "casting out nines" worked, and the guy, James Grime, was like "If you asked the question of why that works, then I'm glad, you're thinking like a mathematician." And so then I started liking the idea of looking deeper into the math rather than just going with the answer or result. Kind of stupid but it's the truth lol
+TheIQ I think your approach will empower you to do more with the knowledge that you have and contribute more to this world in the long run. I like to think that the more you understand the inner workings of anything (a machine, a system, a culture, a language), the more effective and efficient you become at using it to serve your and society's goals. This is probably what led and motivated you to explore what "those symbols and things really mean". Education is a life-long process that ends when you die. So, keep enjoying your learning and society will keep growing from your findings. All the best! :)
What does cake have to do with an elephant? Answer: A person thinks about cake a lot. Perhaps they were bullied in school- either they were bullied because they became overweight because of the cake or they became obsessed with cake because they were bullied- and then maybe the kids called them an elephant because they became fat and then now they get depressed every time they think about elephants but they used the cake to numb their pain- so they think about cake a lot because it's a symbol of their past and all the associations that come along with it- and then they know that the cake let to them being called an elephant- or maybe they think about the Amazonian rain forests that have elephants- the Amazonian rain forests hold big animals- elephants- and because of their relationship with cake and elephants they can't think about one without the other. Therefore, this would obviously have many negative effects on their self esteem, therefore it's really important to launch anti- bullying campaigns and teach kids about the importance of empathy and communication. So now there's a new relationship: cake- elephant -social activism. Now, an intuitive will probably attempt to analyse potential correlations quite unconsciously the moment the person says- "I think about cake a lot". Of course, this is probably a shitty example but it's a pretty simple one. For me, as an intuitive (INFP) the connection between elephants and cake was obvious. Although, my description of intuition fits the Ne- Si axis, because there are Si events and objects from the past that have connections, patterns and associations between them, that are observable in the external world (Ne).
Do you ever have an idea and process it really fast in your mind and then you try to think of it and explain it as words in your own head like you're talking to someone and you just can't do it? Like your mind stutters when you try to think of it slower?
You say pragmatic a lot when you refer to sensory people but the NT's are all pragmatic, the NF's are affiliative and the SP's are also pragmatic, and the SJ's are affiliative, being pragmatic means that you don't really care about what's happening the group, but more about how you are doing within the group.
You've confused "intuition" with *abstraction,* which is just pattern recognition via mental manipulation, it's the power of perspective shifting. Actual intuition is not volitional direction of attention, in this way it is similar to *instinct.* Intuition only differs from instinct in where it arises from, which is the subconscious realms of your mind. Intuition is a higher compulsion of your attention in revelation of conception that was previously outside you comprehension. Every spark of epiphany is an intuitive experience that expands your consciousness as your attention and awareness pulse in a positive feedback loop, levied on the fulcrum that is your intuitive revelation.
In terms of typology, it sounds to me like you're referring to Introverted Intuition, used by INTJ's and INFJ's as their dominant function and ENTJ's and ENFJ's as their auxiliary. I wonder that Erik is mostly referring to Extroverted Intuition, used by ENTP's and ENFP's as their dominant and INTP's and INFP's as their auxiliary.
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Wow, you way of explaining things (searching through your memory, looking for the right word, trying to tie all up together) is VERY much like the way I talk when I'm asked a question on the spot about something I have been mulling over for a while, yet haven't really verbalised it out loud. It is HARD to get the message across swiftly and accurately enough.
Intuition is great, because it is an internal/immaterial/visual process: there are NO boundaries in how far you can leap. But it is also important to work on communicating its conclusions whenever the time arises. I always shy away from sharing my half-baked theories unless I have a rock solid amount of data to back it up (i.e multiple examples occurrences I have witnessed in my own past). Otherwise, I just sit back, absorb and wrestle with what I hear/read/see, until the famous EUREKA moment comes! :)
With sensors, I find that ONLY ESFPs and ISTPs are open-minded enough to listen to my random spinning of thoughts. They bounce of it and laugh at the craziness, which is very humbling. All the other sensors I know look at me like ?_? as if to say: "You have too much -useless- imagination."
That was another fabulous topic to address! ;p
I was JUST discussing this with my ENFP husband. Sensors tend to just give us a pat on the head and send us on our way as if we were crazy. We have put SO much careful time planning, thinking, organizing ect that we often come up with THE answer. When we share it with Sensors, they scorn us to shame. This leads to especially the INFJ feeling purposeless and their advice for the sake of others to be squelched. This is our whole driving force in life and so if that gets squashed? Suicide looks appealing. That is super dark and I've been there many times (growing up with basically all sensors..basically like Lucy in Chronicles of Narnia...no one believes you) but thankfully Jesus rescued me and I have purpose apart from helping others/problem solving. So when that house of cards fall (people fail me and ridicule my love for them) I hold to Jesus understanding exactly how He made me and rewarding me for my love even when it gets rejected for He knows EXACTLY what that's like.
SPOT ON. INTP is here 👋🏻 and the way I explain is the same like his, and my man is an ISFP. He is the only person who is always listening to my random thoughts 😩😩😭😭
It is esoteric. Thats why people think intps' are stupid and/ or manically delusionional. I theorise that intuition is holistic and abstract and most people are very concrete and compartmentalised in their thoughts. We intuitively can infer the common denominator while they cant connect the dots. I have gotten alot better at communication because of this. I have learned to express and articulate my thoughts alot better, but I still feel like I'm living in the tower of babble often enough still.
My experience is similar.
I think people usually lead with their lead function. Like an ISFP will recall and articulate things through her Fi.
As an INTP everything has to be substantiated by a knowledge base, as we through life this knowledge base is challenged and reformatted (it has to be)
In congruence, since there are more feelers than INTPs it makes more sense for us to learn and care for the feelers in our life.
A few healthy mechanisms, start a journal, just because people misunderstand doesnt mean your idea is a false or bad idea. Nourish your inferior function, struggling with this atm, picked a strong Fe as my rolemodel and ask that question wwrbd, what would Richard Branson do?
Dude...you got the adorable X-drug addict vibe going, a slightly scrambled mind with an optimistic heart at it's centre.
I am not an INTP, (ENFP here), but I think I can understand what you are getting across. It's almost like a squirrel who has been gathering nuts for winter; he gathers them and then stores the many nuts in different locations, here, there and everywhere. Then when winter comes, and you then see him frantically digging around in areas that look ridiculous, he will actually, eventually come up with a nut. With the INTP way of thinking, it seems that they have all of these nuts they've gathered about people, situations, events, memories, studies, etc. and they have them kind of stored here there and everywhere. The INTP seems to gather and store bits of information like a squirrel does acorns, and pulls them together to build conclusions that will satisfy and sustain them throughout their time of need or whim of their situation, be it personal or social. They are natural at effortlessly being able to pull bits of information from situations, sometimes without even realizing it, and storing them away. And like the squirrel, they seem to have an almost preternatural way of recalling exactly where each pertinent nut is buried with very little effort, like a detailed, spider-webbing map in his brain. I could be totally soft, and if I am, tell me. But with the INTP friends and family I have, this seems pretty much how I've perceived their thought processes to be.
ENFP: gathers acorns
INTP: builds automated warehouse for said acorns
Allegory aside, meh sure. Instead of layers let's call them categories, otherwise we'll have layers on top of layers, which we do. But then you end up with an ocean deep of layers, undercurrents, and wildlife.
And the only example i can think of is probably Indra's web.
Imagine, every acorn is a drop in a web, and you can see every drop reflected on every drop.
Very accurate! There is a caveat to this however... sometimes we have system overload at times and we remember where 18 of the 20 nuts are and their connections... creating gaps in the whole picture which can reflect badly on our recall sometimes. This can create a perception of non continuity of the finished product... sometimes it makes INTP’s look scattered or noncoherant.
The simple answer is that intuition is gathering information and seeing what pattern that information fits... all subconsciously. We don't realize we're forming these conclusions. It's almost like instinct or our gut reaction. If something is off the pattern, intuitives can see right through it. (Such as a lie). I tend to gather information quickly by observing before choosing to interact with a person. If I get bad "vibes" from a person or my intuition is telling me that they are not a good fit for my personality (as a friend, acquaintance, or what have you) then I bounce. lol I think INTPs and INFJs have a lot of similarities. Your intuition is just guided differently than mine. Yours is extroverted, and your pattern formation is more linear. Mine is introverted and more of a bubble map of clues that I use to form one main idea about a person. Typically, I am correct.
I always like the way to to describe (mbti) intuitives as "abstract ", and sensory people "concrete" .
The way "abstract people" observe reality is that they to spot the patterns in life, whether it be about people or things. They like to find the hidden formula that makes things the way they are. So instead of remembering all the numbers themself, they ditch the numers and look for the formula behind it al. Once the formula is stored, new information (in this example numbers) can be throw into the formula, and there is the outcome. This method is especially good for predicting things in the future. Sensors on the other hand will try to remember the numbers themelves, but will not look into (or see) the formula that created these numbers in the first place. Obviously this makes it possible for 'abstract people' to be able to predict future outcomes alot better than "concrete people", unless the concrete person is very experienced in the specific field or the task at hand is too simple to spend time on thinking about it.
Concrete people will only literally remember something they have done in the past, and based on the outcome, will repeat it again or not, but are less able to predict outcomes if circumstances are changed. They rely very much on literal experience and thus are not able to look into the future of a concept, because they've never been able to experience that concept themself , so they have no idea about it. Since they can not construct the formulas behind these things in life, they talk very differently and less phrone to overthink situations or things and tend to just act upon it. In their mind there is not that much to think about, since only literal experiences are stored and the outcome of their thoughts does not require much thought processing and thus time. They just take the data out of the storage that is very related to the subject, and then based on the previous outcomes, will now make a new choice. An intuitive can endlessly get caught up in the world of building the formulas , since there are endless types of formulas that one can form in order to create a good abstract model of reality. Because of this difference in reasoning, sensors tend to value 'experience' more and intuitives (raw) intelligence (IQ).
People with concrete minds have brick heads.
As Dave said, intuition in its most basic form is your imagination.
That's not true, the power of abstract lateral reasoning is not intuition, even if this nonsense becomes the common assertion of what "intuition" is. In actuality, *intuition is the spark that pulls your imagination toward new forms of realization.*
Very well explained
it's kind of like summing a person up quickly through a certain phrase they used or a certain word captures my attention - like it stands out from what they're trying to say on the surface. My mind grabs it and then cycles it through the instances I've witnessed the word being used or analyze the possible motives why the word was used. It isn't always with words ..it can be with mannerisms or clothes. it stands out from the picture that they're trying to portray... I think this is intuition? i've been told I jump to conclusions by SJs too. I have a question!: Do you and your INTP friend jump to the same conclusions about a thing or have you ever intuited the same thing about someone? I don't know another intp personally and I wonder about that...
Sounds like it! It's always so weird trying to explain it. To your question, yes actually! And if not, we share aspects the other may have missed and sometimes we will end up in the same place anyway. Very rarely do we have stark different conclusions, especially if we dialogue about it.
The thought process you are describing seems to be Si. Si users have an internalized image of what something is supposed to do or look like based on a blend of personal experience, convention, and what they have seen the object do in the past. Si is refining in nature and is ever building towards the perfect model in their head. You could imagine how this thought process would make Si users good detectives. They may have an easier time sniffing out a lie because the person's behavior does not fit the internalized model of how that behavior should be. Intuition in general, is oblivious(both Ni and Ne). An intuitive doesn't care who said what. They care only to summarize the ideas of the person as part of an adventure of the mind....at least that's Ne anyway. Ni is just weird lol. An Ni user looks at the world as if it is a poem to be interpreted. They don't see a chair as a chair. They contemplate what the chair means about us. i.e. an Ni friend of mine once remarked on how spinning really high numbers in the game of life makes it more likely for you to lose. He then immediately made a connection to real life and said that you don't want to rush through life. In this intuitive behavior, you can see that he didn't really recognize the board game. Intuitives often under value the current moment of reality. They would rather think about what could be than what is. This may seem super cool to people but sensing is really useful if you want to actualize success-something intutive types often fail to do
When we think, it's like putting an input into a computer and coming out with millions of outputs, and then we carefully analyze them all until we can choose one we're comfortable with.
All that stuff made sense about halfway through.
Good explanation. I personally have struggled with explaining intuition to people over the years. I assume that I m subconsciously working through my flow chart like analytical process. This must take place without my awareness. I simply know some things, with everything else,I think. When I think something, I can be wrong, but when I know something, it's usually right, or generally correct.
I had a friend a few years back who asked me why she didn't consider sex to be especially meaningful in an emotional sense. I spoke without thinking and blurted out "Because you were molested by your youth pastor as a child. As a defense mechanism you devalued sex, because if someone takes something you don't care about, then you don't feel wronged." She turned white and said she hadn't told anyone that in 20 year. When she asked how I figured it out, I could only say, "You say nothing, but you sream it with every fiber of your being. I can't explain how I read people, but when I think, I can be wrong, when I know, on the other hand, I'm usually not." Gave her a good starting point with a therapist though.
With us intuitive, we tend so see analogies, or patterns and understand allegories (vis. allegories in Scripture).
Now I agree with you that intuitive is difficult to explain as it is an abstract concept, but will now illustrate just one example as to how my own intuition work as an INTP myself: For instance when I read the Book of Genesis, I was able to see the similarity (analogy) between the serpent (Lucifer), whom tempted Even to eat the fruit of knowledge and Prometheus, whom stole the fire from Mount Olympus so man would no remain in ignorance. In the Greek mythology, against the wishes of Zeus, whom was the King of all the Gods, to take the fire so mankind would no longer remain ignorant and have the ability to engage in reason. Zeus became very angry at Prometheus so he order Hephaestus to chain him to a mountain. Now in Scripture, Lucifer tempted Eve to eat the fruit so they could acquire knowledge and become more like God Himself. God became angry at Lucifer so fast him away from Heaven just like the way Zeus did to Prometheus by casting him away from the heavens by tying him up to a mountain. So also what my intuition tells me that Lucifer and Prometheus are virtually the same being! Also bear in my that it doesn’t say any where in the book of Genesis that Lucifer had really any evil intent enticing mankind to acquire knowledge via fruit 🍉
I usually explain intuition and sensing in a... non creative way. I just say intuition is about thinking of possibilities and sensing is about paying attention to sensory details whether it’s from past or present experiences. I honestly don’t think that’s the best way though. I haven’t made the best decisions in life so I may have had a bit of a decrease in intelligence or memory or I’ve always been this stupid, I don’t know.
I’ll be sure to check out your brothers channel.
Also, I’m planning on trying to change the school system a bit, so it’s easier for people who prefer to use the introverted thinking function. Since it seems like they have a harder time connecting the information than extroverted thinking users. (Sort of)
I’m not saying introverted thinking users are dumb... if that were true you’d be dumb because your an INTP but clearly INTPs are smarter than most people which I think the same goes for you. Honestly I don’t know if I’m a Ti user or a Te user, but I figured I’d ask, if you think explaining things more in-depth, sort of like a proof is a good idea. I think the only problem would be a lack of effort on the teachers end or the explanation itself possibly not connecting with all the Ti users.
I’ve just noticed that common trend that Ti users typically have a harder time understanding certain topics even though they are much more capable of doing better.
So what do you think of this?
Do you think the school system is fine the way it is or do think it could use some changes?
Personally for me, school was very difficult (k-12) because I was trying to encompass a lot of information while others could take the surface value and move on. I tried to connect things to the greater picture, regardless of the subject at hand. Growing older, however, I grew the ability to have a greater understanding of what things are and can understand different concepts. For instance I took college algebra in college but I already took calculus in high school, but because the way how I process information was not fully developed, it was a miracle to stay around a C for a grade. When I took the college algebra course after 6 ish years of never touching math, I aced nearly every test and got an A in the class. There definitely are issues in the school system but a lot of issues were me and my way of processing. It would be great to cater to Ti users its just there are so many different types out there who have different learning styles. But if you test and see what works best, I trust you will do great things for changing the school system! :)
Cool thanks! Yeah I agree there are many different ways of learning which will probably be the hardest part about it. That or actually spreading it to more and more schools.
Yeah math was the main reason why and how I came up with this idea since a lot of schools if not all, kind of just give like conceptual and sort of abstract, ways of thinking of math, or at least in elementary it seems but teachers don’t really go into why or how that particular subject connects to the other ones (or at least in my experience so far, I’m a only a sophomore in high school). And researching the functions and mbti made me realize how sucky the school system actually is.
So yeah I think it’s great that people are trying to find different ways of teaching math but it seems like they’re searching in the wrong area or at least haven’t found the right solution yet.
+TheImpossibleQ? To be honest, I don't think it is just school, it is EVERYWHERE in life. The Western civilisation is all about "proving and performing", which means that Te and Se rule. No one believes you can do something UNLESS you have a diploma/certification: that's the basis for hiring someone. People refuse to entertain that certain things might exist simply because they haven't seen/touched/tasted/experienced them: that's where flat-earthers score their points.
School is merely a snapshot of what life is about: learning how you fit in this system is essential for your survival/growth in the long run.
Regarding maths, I hated maths in school. My teacher came across as a bulldozer who only knew how to write things in red on my paper, but NEVER could diagnose why I kept making the same mistakes over and over. Her job was to show me to theorems and formulas and my job was to used these theorems to.the.dot. But I wouldn't because the "HOW DOES IT FIT TOGETHER?" and "WHY?" was never addressed, so I ended up substituting/experimenting with what the mechanics of these formulas were, so much that I could NEVER memorise them entirely and ended up scraping C/55%/Pass sort of grades (not that I cared anyway).
I enjoy Maths so much more now that I can relate it to Physics. But I don't think any Middle/High school teacher I've known/met could EVER teach Maths in a way that is appealing to students who aren't into Medical studies or Business Administration. They themselves were formatted by the system and tend to actively run away from going in depth into anything because they lack the energy/motivation/knowledge/dedication/time to address the full picture.
Now, if you are in High school and you want higher chances of landing NT-friendly teachers, you could look into picking Chemistry, Physics, Computing, Linguistics and Philosophy. The other subjects are rife with SJs.
Ps: I'm a Philosophy/Linguistics Graduate and an Educator. :)
Yes I agree with a lot of what you said but I believe it's possible that with some enthusiasm and analyzing, the school system or the general way people do things can change in a positive way. But Yes I agree, most of the world is all very Te and Se based, I've actually noticed that myself which is one of the reasons why I wanted to do this. The other reason is that my sister had that same problem of not understanding mathematics for those same reasons of, the teacher not explaining how or why it really makes sense or where it came from and just expecting an understanding or acceptance right after showing how to use it.
Yeah I'm kind of going for something more philosophy based than just math and science. I'm not really sure if I'm a Te or Ti user but I think there's reason to suggest that I'm probably more of a Te user. I kind of liked just messing around and using the ideas and theorems and not really going to deep or trying to figure out why they actually work or make sense in the first place. Although now I am trying to do that because I think just getting an understanding of how it came to be is better for understanding the material more intuitively or just being able work things out on my own.
In 6th grade I wondered about what those symbols and things really mean and wanted to learn about them but I never asked why or what it is. So yeah I'd just go along with what the teacher is saying instead of questioning it, I never liked drawing attention to myself so I always end up just going with what the teacher says. Later after 8th grade ended I came across a channel called Numberphile and looking at some of the proofs I realized that somethings I probably wouldn't understand right now even if I wanted to so I gained a more appreciation of math. Someone in a video I watched later, I think it was about how the method called "casting out nines" worked, and the guy, James Grime, was like "If you asked the question of why that works, then I'm glad, you're thinking like a mathematician." And so then I started liking the idea of looking deeper into the math rather than just going with the answer or result. Kind of stupid but it's the truth lol
+TheIQ I think your approach will empower you to do more with the knowledge that you have and contribute more to this world in the long run.
I like to think that the more you understand the inner workings of anything (a machine, a system, a culture, a language), the more effective and efficient you become at using it to serve your and society's goals. This is probably what led and motivated you to explore what "those symbols and things really mean".
Education is a life-long process that ends when you die. So, keep enjoying your learning and society will keep growing from your findings. All the best! :)
Now I’m confused as to what intuition actually is.
I believe the deconstruction of a subject has more to do with Ti than Ne.
Does your dog communicate what he wants through actions I can always tell what mine is wanting.
What does cake have to do with an elephant?
Answer: A person thinks about cake a lot. Perhaps they were bullied in school- either they were bullied because they became overweight because of the cake or they became obsessed with cake because they were bullied- and then maybe the kids called them an elephant because they became fat and then now they get depressed every time they think about elephants but they used the cake to numb their pain- so they think about cake a lot because it's a symbol of their past and all the associations that come along with it- and then they know that the cake let to them being called an elephant- or maybe they think about the Amazonian rain forests that have elephants- the Amazonian rain forests hold big animals- elephants- and because of their relationship with cake and elephants they can't think about one without the other. Therefore, this would obviously have many negative effects on their self esteem, therefore it's really important to launch anti- bullying campaigns and teach kids about the importance of empathy and communication. So now there's a new relationship: cake- elephant -social activism.
Now, an intuitive will probably attempt to analyse potential correlations quite unconsciously the moment the person says- "I think about cake a lot".
Of course, this is probably a shitty example but it's a pretty simple one. For me, as an intuitive (INFP) the connection between elephants and cake was obvious.
Although, my description of intuition fits the Ne- Si axis, because there are Si events and objects from the past that have connections, patterns and associations between them, that are observable in the external world (Ne).
It has nothing to do with each other and stop body shaming hypothetical people it’s so rude.
Do you ever have an idea and process it really fast in your mind and then you try to think of it and explain it as words in your own head like you're talking to someone and you just can't do it? Like your mind stutters when you try to think of it slower?
Ugh, all the time! I And it is even worse when four things are trying to come out all at once in that kind of speed. I truly sound like an idiot xD
No you don’t
I don’t because I didn’t understand anything you said something about everyone sees things differently
You say pragmatic a lot when you refer to sensory people but the NT's are all pragmatic, the NF's are affiliative and the SP's are also pragmatic, and the SJ's are affiliative, being pragmatic means that you don't really care about what's happening the group, but more about how you are doing within the group.
True sensory people are bud really pragmatic. It is an NT trait
Exactly.
How old are you?
A tender 24 years old haha
😂😂😂
You've confused "intuition" with *abstraction,* which is just pattern recognition via mental manipulation, it's the power of perspective shifting. Actual intuition is not volitional direction of attention, in this way it is similar to *instinct.*
Intuition only differs from instinct in where it arises from, which is the subconscious realms of your mind. Intuition is a higher compulsion of your attention in revelation of conception that was previously outside you comprehension.
Every spark of epiphany is an intuitive experience that expands your consciousness as your attention and awareness pulse in a positive feedback loop, levied on the fulcrum that is your intuitive revelation.
In terms of typology, it sounds to me like you're referring to Introverted Intuition, used by INTJ's and INFJ's as their dominant function and ENTJ's and ENFJ's as their auxiliary. I wonder that Erik is mostly referring to Extroverted Intuition, used by ENTP's and ENFP's as their dominant and INTP's and INFP's as their auxiliary.
You sound a lot like Jordan Peterson. So yes, I'd bet on you using introverted intuition.
My intuition is telling me you are an entp not intp..
No be seems pretty interverted
I stopped following halfway through lol
(but to my defense, it's midnight)