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The Imminent Rapture
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- Опубліковано 23 січ 2014
- Scholars often speak of the Rapture as an "imminent" event, but what does this mean? In this week's John Ankerberg Show, the discussion will focus on this important term that describes the teaching of the Rapture happening at "any moment" along with the biblical passages that emphasize this aspect of the Rapture.
Focus on your relationship with Jesus and don't get caught up in all these distractions. You MUST be born again ! You could be called home today. We should always live as though this was our last day.
Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour! Jesus Christ is Lord forevermore! Come! AMEN!!!
Maranatha!
Praise the Lord Jesus Christ! I pray for humanity that all will seek and find Him. amen.
Very informative show; great guests. Thanks for posting.
For me, fear of judgement doesn't lead to greater obedience, it leads to panic, mistakes, insecurity, giving up and a relapse into dispare and alcoholism. What makes me a better person is feeling secure in Yeshua's atonning work for me, an increase in accurate translation of the scriptures as men like Michael Rood are giving us.
Looking for that blessed event soon.
Maranatha! Jesus come quick....
When was this broadcast?
Praise the LORD!
God bless you
In I Thes 4:13 , the subject begins here, Paul is teaching us , concerning where those that are asleep(deceased) are. They have already risen. When Christ comes,those that e alive & remain(on Earth) shall be caught up (brought together) to meet The Lord in the air ( strongs conc. Greek # 109-breathe as in breath of life body or spirit
I've found that one can make a case for Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib and Post Trib rapture. I wouldn't get hung up on which one you prefer. Christ compels Christians to be READY at all times.
Jeffrey Lear The 5 foolish virgins were not ready. Jesus told us what to do, it's to every saint to listen. His warning is real. He said not to fear those that can destroy your body, it's not important. Fearing God is important. He that seeks to save shall lose. He that loses shall be saved. How much more clear than that?
+Ronnie Murphy my friend the five foolish virgins is Israel the five wise virgins are the christians
+J Funk Where do you get that? It doesn't say that.
Josh Woodcock What funny is they claim Jesus was talking to the Jews only, because the church was not there yet. Well, Jesus was talking to followers regardless and they became the church, be it Jew or Gentile, we are all now saved by grace regardless. Sometimes they are just to funky with sound doctrine.
Haven't you heard Solomons saying in proverbs 30:6?
"Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove
thee, and thou be found a liar." But how come you
so readily will break it?
You ask: why, how are we breaking it?
By saying that there will be a rapture before the
last day when the trumpet clearly according to the
Scriptures will sound only on the very last day you
are breaking it. And how can you let yourself be deceived
by the false teaching of the 7-year tribulation? The
first and the last, both of these teachings are
additions to the word of the Lord. And "A little
leaven leaveneth the whole lump.".
Couldn't "Delivered from the wrath to come" mean eternally delivered not temporily as in the trib time?
Amen it works!
I meant watch John Ankerberg's UA-cam video about the rapture not Akerman sorry
How does Satan make war with the saints if they have been raptured?
This is 5 years ago. What is immi ent to you?
When the bombs come down we go up...
Ezekiel 38 is on the verge of happening right now wow ! ! !
Of course The Rapture is Imminent and of course God will return!
God will return, but it is not imminent. There is a set schedule of events before He comes to collect His church.
TheTurtlee1 Dude look up imminent it means its going to happen know matter what and that it will
Joel Furber Okay.
Imminent: ready to take place; especially : hanging threateningly over one's head
Jesus' coming is NOT imminent.
2Thes 2:1 "¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
There must be a falling away (or apostasy) of believers and the son of perdition must be revealed. These two events have not been completed yet, therefore, Jesus cannot come yet.
Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
The sun and moon must go dark (at the same time), meteors must come, and things change in space and earth before he comes. Hasn't happened yet.
His coming is not imminent and there is no place in Scripture it is so. The urgency only lies in the fact that we don't know when we will die. That could happen in any moment and then any opportunity for repentance is lost.
TheTurtlee1 It is ready to take place!
I strongly feel that the rapture will be on Rosh Ha'Shanah. We don't know the 'day or hour' comes from a Hebrew or Jewish idiom for the day of the Feast of Trumpets.
Wrong conclusion, wrong application.
Rosh Ha'shanah is the FIRST trumpet, but the Bible is clear Jesus will "rapture" at the LAST trumpet. Furthermore, the sun and moon will be dark. That is why you will not know the day or hour. Jesus returns on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement.
TheTurtlee1 Sorry, at the Feast of Trumpets there are 100 blasts. The last is the Grand Blast, and it is referred to as the Last Trump. It always has been.
Again, Rosh Ha'shanah is the FIRST day of the trumpets, not the last.
Rosh Ha'shanah was fulfilled already because it was the conception of Jesus. The rapture will not be on Rosh Ha'shanah, it will be on Yom Kippur, at the end.
John 6:39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
The last day and at the last trumpet.
TheTurtlee1 Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Jude Stringfellow The resurrection precedes the rapture. Correct? Then understand the mystery of the resurrection.
1Cor 15:51 "¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." Mystery of the resurrection at the LAST trumpet. Do you see? Where is the last trumpet?
Rev 10:7 "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets." We know Paul knew, but who else knew or spoke of this mystery?
Isa 26:18 "We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.
19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead." Resurrection.
Job 19:25 "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:" Redeemer, resurrection, latter day....
Dan 12:2 "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Notice this is together? Just like Jesus.
John 5:28 "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
Watch John Akerman'a video on UA-cam type in THE IMMINENT RAPTURE and be amazed. I was wrong all these years. It's so important that you Watch this in order to understand what Jesus was telling his people to look for
I always love listening to your videos. I've learned a great deal through my prophecy studies. A man on you tube under ' Igo2slo4u2cme' shows all the heavenly signs in the heavens that coincides with this discussion. After watching his videos I was blown away. If you ever have a chance to see them, I would love your thoughts on them. God Bless...JY
Christ comes!
“…that he may be revealed in his own time”
(2 Thessalonians 2:6)
Small analysis of (2 Thessalonians 2)
The letter to Thessalonica establishes who comes first; and so prepares the church to support that man of sin be not deceived (the opposed) (want to see as God) (2 Thes 2:4) and know that he is NOT the Christ
The previous events to the coming of Christ!
Definition:
IMMINENT is = which is close to happening. Likely to occur at ANY MOMENT. or the next event that COMES TO FULFILLMENT.
Questions and Answers:
“for that day will not come…” (2 Thes 2:3)
1. What day?
“…coming of our Lord Jesus Christ…” (2 Thes 2:1)
2. What has to come first?
“…there come a falling away (Apostasy) FIRST, and that man of sin BE REVEALED, the son of perdition” (2 Thes 2:3)
Sequence order is:
APOSTASY (FIRST)
Followed by:
THE MAN OF SIN
After:
THE SECOND COMING CHRIST (the day of the lord's begins)
And then:
“BRINGS THE RAPTURE”
3. What was the information and the right way; that the apostle Paul would communicate to the church of the Thessalonians?
There are things that come FIRST in the ORDER OF PROPHETIC FULFILLMENT. And therefore the coming of Christ IS RESTRICTED, until every situation TAKES ITS RIGHTFUL FULFILLMENT.
And therefore Paul closes the quote with this statement “…that he may be revealed in his own time” (2 Thes 2:6) (CHRIST awaits the return in his TIMELY)
The sense is:
The coming of Christ IS NOT “IMMINENT!”
God has ORDER, SEQUENCE and TIMING for his prophetic fulfillments
For establish the APPROPRIATE PURPOSES
“The coming of Christ is in due time”
Christ comes!
“…that he may be revealed in his own time”
(2 Thessalonians 2:6)
Millions are gonna disappear it will be business as usual
every 1 try's to set a date when Jesus will come back
only God knows when and how..
They won't disappear, flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom. It's why in revelation 17/18 It said and in her (Babylon/America) was found the blood of many prophets and saints. It was the sudden destruction of Babylon America that triggers the rapture Revelation 18:4 is the rapture. Jeremiah 50/51 reveals the parallel verses that are beyond clear what happens, on the normal day as in Noahs day.
I am Washed in the Blood of Jesus Christ. I have Eternal Salvation. I have His Mark!
32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with
him also freely give us all things?
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is
even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution,
or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for
the slaughter.
37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers,
nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love
of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans Chapter 8:32-39
2 Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Heb.12.14 "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall SEE the Lord". Rev.1.7 is the result of the second coming(Heb.9.28). Ps.37.10-11 with Matt.5.5 It is the wicked that shall not be, not the Christians. Isa.52.7 aligns with Rom.10.15, Isa.52.11 aligns with 2 Cor.6.14-17, and Isa.52.12 says "for ye shall not go out with haste, NOR GO BY FLIGHT". What these theologians are not considering is that other scriptures show the clouds of 1 Thess.4.17 to be spiritual clouds, and they are spots on our feasts of charity(Jude 12, Heb.12.1, Joel 2.2). The mystery of 1 Cor.15.51 is that the spots on our feasts of charity sleep a perpetual sleep and do not awake when the Believers "awake from sleep and arise from the dead"(Jer.51.39, Eph.5.14, Jn.5.29). The Rapture is the change into the likeness of the risen Lord, not being beamed up into the clouds. We are delivered from the wrath of God because it is revealed from heaven on those who hold the truth in unrighteousness"(Rom.1.18, Isa.26.3, 57.21, therefore the true hearts will remain in peace(Jn.14.27), and be right here on earth when the Lord returns to make his home(Rev.11.15). memelampert@aol.com
How can he come at any time? Jesus said many times there would be signs for his followers to see that the time is getting close. He said we won't know the exact day or hour, but when things are going down we'll be able to tell he's coming within the year, maybe even the month. This imminence stuff is made up to support the pre-trib view. There is not a single passage that says we are to expect Jesus to come twice. Of all the passages that speak about future events, not a one says he's coming twice.
Jesus said it is a sin to call someone dumb. You might want to look that up. As for your attempt to correct me, you provided no usable information.
"No He didn't. Try again"
What are you talking about?
Revelations 13: 8And all the dwell upon the earth adored him, WHOSE NAMES ARE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB, which was slain from the beginning of the world.
Revelations 13: 8 speaks of all that dwell upon the earth will adore the beast...it goes on to say that is those, who do not have THIER NAMES written in the book of life, NOW these will adore the beast! Those who have their name written in the book of life of the Lamb, will be also present in those times as well, therefore there is NO RAPTURE!!!
NO RAPTURE! Because the Apostle John emphasize "whose NAMES are not written in the book of life of the Lamb". meaning at that time there will be people WHOSE NAMES are written in the Book of the LIFE OF THE LAMB.
Revelations 13: 15And it was given him to give life to the image of the beast, and that the image of the beast should speak; and should cause, that WHOSOEVER WILL NOT ADORE THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST SHOULD BE SLAIN.
Obviously Revelations 13:15 states those who WILL NOT ADORE THE BEAST are they that have Their NAMES WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE!!! Therefore there is NO RAPTURE!!!
2025
not so..............see for yourself
Rapture; Mystery or Myth Part 1 "The Disappearing"
The Party
Imagine
that on Saturday you make a reservation with one of the entertainment
facilities that provides for children. You plan a party for your child
and his friends. You pay the fee and the appointed time is set for one
week away early on Saturday morning. You tell your child that there is a
party planned for him and his friends. You do not tell him the exact
appointment time. You want him to go about his activities and be
motivated by the hope of going to the party. You tell him to invite his
friends.
The child is curious and impatient and asks when the
party will start. You do not tell him the exact time but say that there
are some other things that must happen first and the party will happen
at the appointment time. “You have to go to school first and study your
lessons. Other things are going to happen first, especially on the day
before the party.” Then you tell the child what some of the other things
are and especially those things that will take place on the day before
the party.
Some of your child’s friends find out about the
planned party. Their imaginations run wild. They tell your child that
the party could happen at any time. They think it is imminent. Your
child says, “No, it is not going to happen at just any moment. It will
happen at the appointment time. That is what my father told me and I
believe him”
Late on Friday, the day before the party, the
friends say to the child, “Now the party can start at any time because
all the things your father said would happen have already happened. It
is imminent.”
The child responded, “There is one thing my father
said would happen on the day before the party that has not yet been
revealed. So it is not imminent. My father always tells the truth. One
more thing must happen today then the party will be at the appointed
time tomorrow.”
This story of the party is the story of the
rapture. An incorrect teaching and belief that the Lord’s Kingdom was
imminent actually took place while Jesus was still on the earth after
His resurrection ! It is recorded in our Bibles. In my 40 years of Bible
study I’ve never heard one sermon or one teaching about it. Not even in
prophecy studies !
In John chapter 21 verses 15-23, Jesus is drawing
Peter to follow Him. Peter tries to change the subject and speaks of
John who is there and says, “What about this man?”
In a polite way Jesus in effect tells him forget about John this is between me and you.
The exact words in verse 22 are
“If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow me.”
This caused a false belief and teaching by the very Apostles themselves!
They began to teach that Jesus would return before John would die. In
other words they were teaching that the return of Christ was imminent.
This was an incorrect teaching and God dealt with it by having John correct it in the writings we have in our Bibles in the book of John. Verse 22 has the Lord’s words that were misinterpreted.
The very next verse, verse 23, makes the correction. It says,
“Then
this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not
die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will
that he remain till I come, what is that to you?”
The incorrect
teaching of the Lord’s return being imminent crept into the church early
in its history. It was even believed and taught by the very Apostles
themselves. God corrected that error and recorded it in our Bibles. Why
did God bother to record it for us to read in our day?
Perhaps it was
because He knew that near the time of Christ’s return the incorrect
teaching of it being imminent would once again be a problem.
The
return of Christ to resurrect His Church and to rapture the living
believers has never been imminent throughout the history of the Church.
Consider just a few of the things that had to happen before Christ would
return. Peter would die a martyr’s death by being crucified. Jesus told
him this on the same occasion that is recorded in John chapter 21 that
we just looked at.
The temple would be destroyed. Israel would be
destroyed as a nation and the survivors scattered throughout the world.
Gentiles would control Jerusalem until close to the time of the Lord’s
return. Israel would once again become a nation. Israel would regain
control of Jerusalem.
The gospel would be preached in all the world.
The nations surrounding Israel would unite together in calling for her
destruction. There would be a falling away from God and from the truth
of His teachings.
That brings us up to today. During none of
those over 1900 years has the Lord’s return been imminent. It could not
happen at just any time. All of the events mentioned above and others
had to be completed before the appointed time for the return would come.
It has been taught for the past many decades that all events
foretold to happen before the Lord’s return have taken place and He
could return at any moment. That is not true. There is at least one
major event that must take place before the Lord’s return for the
resurrection and rapture. Even after that event the exact day and hour
of the Lord’s return will not be known to us. It will take place at the
appointed time.
We have a prophetic verse that tells us of two
things that must happen before the resurrection of the Church and the
rapture. One of those things is the ‘falling away.’ This is the falling
away from God in general and in the falling away from teaching the true
doctrines of the Bible. We can see that falling away taking place today.
Before
looking at the second thing that must take place before the
resurrection and rapture lets look at the situation with the Church at
Thessalonica. Paul had been there and helped them. While he was there he
taught them about the resurrection and rapture. After he left, someone
by letter or word convinced the Church there that they had missed the
resurrection and rapture. In other words they had been ‘left behind.’ In
his second letter to Timothy, Paul identified two men who were falsely
teaching that ‘the resurrection is already past: and they overthrow the
faith of some.’ See 2 Timothy 2:17-18. This was a very serious problem.
As
you can imagine, the Church at Thessalonica was very upset about this
and wrote to Paul asking for help. Paul told them God would ‘repay with
tribulation those who trouble you.’
In chapter 2 verses 1-3 Paul
tells them that two things that had not yet happened in their time had
to happen before the resurrection and rapture.
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2
not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word
or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless
the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed....
So
the two things Paul told them that had not happened yet were 1. the
falling away and 2. the man of sin must be revealed. In verse 5 he
reminds them that he taught them these things when he was with them. See
how easy it is for Church members to be lead astray by false teaching?
In
our time the falling away is taking place. The man of sin (the
Antichrist that Paul goes on to talk about in the rest of chapter 2) has
not yet been revealed. These verses show us that the Antichrist must be
revealed before the resurrection and rapture of the church.
Some
would argue that the verse that tells us no man knows the day or the
hour prevents this from being true. No it doesn’t. The Antichrist can be
revealed and then there can be some amount of time before the 7 year
peace plan is made and begins. During that time the resurrection and
rapture can take place and no one will know what day it is going to be.
So
what is the danger of the incorrect teaching that the rapture is
imminent and no events remain before it can take place? Remember Paul
said of those who were teaching that they overthrew the faith of some.
Think about it. Today if a man came on the scene who was clearly the
Antichrist and recognized by Christians what would they think?
Many
would think they had been ‘left behind’ just like the people at
Thessalonica. It would trouble them and it might even ‘overthrow’ their
faith. Some might turn their back on their faith. Some might commit
suicide. Who knows all the harm it might cause.
Look closely at
what Paul said about this ‘man of sin.’ It says he must be revealed.
What he does not say is just as important. Paul did not say he must be
in power yet or have made a 7 year peace treaty with Israel yet. Only
that he must be revealed. Think about it this way. Every 4 years the US
elects a new president. The election takes place in November and the
winner is revealed. The winner becomes known to everyone. Yet the winner
does not take office until some time later in January. It is only then
that he has power to do things. Perhaps that is the way it will be when
the Antichrist is revealed.
So dear brother or sister in Christ,
if you are around when the Antichrist is revealed do not panic. You have
not been ‘left behind.’ Remember the Church at Thessalonica and what
God had to say to them through Paul.
Jesus is coming for Christians who are living a life without a spot or wrinkle. Following the lamb doing His perfect will. Those who are watching and praying. He is coming for His chaste virgin NOT every Christian.
On your own, you'd have to be 100% perfect to go to Heaven (which is impossible). Committing even one sin is enough for God to send a person to Hell forever (James 2:10). Since no one is perfect, no one is worthy of Heaven. Thus, we all need a perfect Savior, Jesus Christ-the sinless Lamb of God!
Please tell us, Randy, just how do we become perfect? We are ALL sinners, no matter how hard we try to not be. Even we, who are watching for Him and praying that we be accounted worthy, are still sinners. I'm wondering where you think the line will be drawn between those "good enough" to be raptured, and those who missed the mark?
Read your Bible... When the Messiah returns you want to be left behind, not taken! Obey Yeshua and go read the the account of Noah. Those that were taken perished by the flood, those left behind lived (Matt. 24:24-41.) Many have been deceived by Tom Lahaye and the false Left Behind deception. Noah and his family were left behind and lived! YOU WANT TO BE LEFT BEHIND AND LIVE!!!!!!!
The Beast must war against the saints before the rapture of the church in Rev 7:9-17.
+Paul Bortolazzo
“...‘When it is evening yousay, 'It will be fair weather,for the sky is red'; and in the morning, 'It
will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.'Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times.” Matthew 16:2-3
Our Jesus called the Pharisees and Sadducees hypocrites for not discerning the signs of
the times. (Mat. 16:1-3) Have you ever heard prophecy teachers rebuke the church for refusing to discern the signs of His coming? They boldly declare many Christians will have to give an
account to God for such appalling neglect! Yet these same ministers use the popular
scare tactic, “You better be ready our Lord could split the eastern sky in my
next breath.” The sobering reality is they’re judging themselves. (Luke
21:8)The only time our physical redemption can come at any moment is after the Lamb
of God opens the 6th seal. (Luke 21:25-28, Mat 24:29-31)
The tribulation saints, not the body of Christ.
The great multitude coming out of the great tribulation to heaven in Rev 7:9-17 is the body of Christ.
The Resurrection of the elect is not imminent till the Lamb of God opens the 6th seal in Mat 24:29-31.
Paul Bortolazzo You've got it twisted.
Let’s remember the 70th week of Daniel is never called the tribulation period. (Daniel 9:24) When our Lord says after the tribulation of these days, He is referring to the tribulation of the first five seals on the outside of the heavenly scroll. (Mat. 24:4-26, Rev. 6:1-11) The events from the first three seals, the beginning of sorrows, will take place in the first half of the seven years. (Mat. 24:4-8, Rev. 6:1-6) The Lamb of God will open the 4th seal in the middle of the 70th week. (Rev. 6:7-8, Mat. 24:9-26) This marks the beginning of the great tribulation of the saints by the Beast. (Mat. 24:21-22, Rev. 13:3-7) Martyrs are seen in heaven after the 5th seal opens. (Rev. 6:9-11) Immediately after the tribulation of the first five seals, the sun, moon, and stars will lose their light. (Mat. 24:29, Rev. 6:12-17, Joel 3:15, Isa. 13:10) The Son of Man will come with the dead in Christ and His angels after the opening of the 6th seal. (Mark 13:24-27, 1 Thes. 4:14-15)
The rapture and the second coming are Two different events The rapture will happen BEFORE the tribulation not after. Read your Bible people its there. And quit believing a LIE.
No they don't occur on the same day They are 7 years apart.
Um. The Bible is expressly clear the "rapture" is AFTER the tribulation, not before. So who is believing a lie now?
And Drummerman, can you prove it is 7 years apart? and where is it written that the "rapture" and 2nd coming are separate?
TheTurtlee1
You are.
TheTurtlee1 If you think the Rapture happens after the Tribulation, then why does Jesus RESURRECT (only) the new Believers who were Beheaded? Revelation 20:4 They NEVER "meet Christ in the air". Their bodies NEVER went to Heaven to be in the Father's House: John 14:1-3 On the other hand, I will receive my Crown(s) when Paul does: 2Timothy 4:8, when Peter does: 1Peter 5:4, when the 24 elders of Revelation 4:1-5 do & I will be WITH Jesus in Revelation 17:14. If you're Pre - you're Free - If you're Post - you're Toast. MARANATHA
*****
you {{why does Jesus RESURRECT (only) the new Believers who were Beheaded? Revelation 20:4 }}
One problem with this question, then we will seek an answer for it. The problem is that you have to assume that they are new believers. No where in the verse or any verses around it say they are new. Also, could it mean anyone who was killed for the cause of Christ?
Answers: These are the same believers of Rev 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"
These verses are in harmony with the end time prophecies of Daniel in Dan 7. Here is an excerpt:
Dan 7:21 "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom."
Rev 20:5 also says it is the "first resurrection". We know 1Thess 4:16 says there is a resurrection. If there is a rapture preceded by a resurrection 7 years before, then how can it be the first resurrection? Makes no sense whatsoever.
you:{{Their bodies NEVER went to Heaven to be in the Father's House: John 14:1-3}}
Umm, no one has. So, this is a rather moot point. Martin Luther, your faithful grandparents, Paul, Peter, John, etc are all still here. Their bodies never went to the father's house either.
John 14:2 "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."
I think we all agree on this verse. We know Jesus ascended and is preparing this place now. We understand and accept it as the "New Jerusalem". The next verse is where we probably part. Try reading it without adding preconceived ideas and notions.
John 14:3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
He says he will come again. We agree that He does return, but how many times? When He comes, it does not say He goes back up to heaven. But when He comes He does have a gathering, so, we will be with Him here on the earth forever. Once Jesus comes, He will not be returning to heaven. There is no Scripture to support that He would again.
you:{{On the other hand, I will receive my Crown(s) when Paul does: 2Timothy 4:8, when Peter does: 1Peter 5:4, when the 24 elders of Revelation 4:1-5 do & I will be WITH Jesus in Revelation 17:14.}}
Agreed whole-heartedly until Rev 4:1-5. They are already there before Jesus' return and they also do not understand about those beheaded for Christ or the "great multitude". I have a theory that they were resurrected before, right after Jesus' resurrection. I think that would make them some OT saints and that would fit with their lack of understanding.
I am very glad to see that you count yourself among those that will be with Jesus at Rev 17:14, but keep in mind that this is at the END, not pre-trib. Even the world famous verses that purport pre-trib ,1Thess 4:16,17 are introduced by verse 15, "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." Notice it says "unto the coming of the Lord". And no where in any of these verses does it say Jesus returns to heaven, nor any of the resurrected or raptured saints.
Question for you:
If God would allow plagues and judgment for His own chosen people, Israel, then what makes us so much better that we would be spared and ride the gravy train to heaven?
What about our brothers and sisters in Christ who are living and dying for the sake of the gospel even right now in this day and time?
Have to throw one more Scripture in here:
John 6:39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
The last day! See you then and we will be with Jesus!!!
Revelation 12:17 - "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
This is CLEARLY DURING the Tribulation. The "Woman" is clearly Israel. The "remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" is CLEARLY the Church.
This is absolute PROOF that the Church is ON EARTH DURING THE TRIBULATION.
Believing in a "SECRET" coming of Jesus is just plain silly. There is nothing about the God I know that is a secret! The God I worship does not resort to trickery. The God I know knows the ending from the beginning and he has told us all we need to know and given us all the signs we will need to not be taken over as a thief in the night because we are not of the dark, we are children of the LIGHT and everything is known to us!
tonysnewsrack Then i guess you are *tricked* because the it's in the bible and your the one who's foolish and silly.
nonsense. The thief at night is overtaken by people that know what to look for. They have studied and become aware and hence know what to look for so they will not be over come. Only the ignorant are over come.
Same way with Jesus. For those of us that know Jesus and have studied his word, he has revealed his gospel and signs to us so that we will "NOT BE OVERCOME LIKE A THIEF IN THE NIGHT". We are children of the light and we will be okay.
Yes, Jesus was prophesized to come 2 times. The first like a lamb and will be persecuted. The second like a Lion and will rule as the king of kings and lord of lords. There is nothing more to add, no secret stuff for special people silly.
The Bible gives us a clear warning to not be decieved by those who say the return of Christ is imminent.
2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Dr Sr ...Jesus will return, but not before the Anti-christ comes. The Rapture happens after the tribulation, sorry you cannot see it.
Youneedtoread2thessolionsbecaueyourwrong
Post-trib rapture is what I see in the words of Jesus and apostle Paul (Mat.24, Luke 22, Mark 13 plus 2 Tes.2:1-5.) Early church fathers believed that the church would go through the tribulation and will suffer by the hands of Antichrist (Ireaneus, Justin Martyr, Polycarp, Tertulian etc.) I recommend also book "Blessed Hope" by George Eldon Ladd.
loveprodigy Yes it is in the Bible which by the way never and nowhere teach two second comings. Jesus will come back once. I do not believe in a secret rapture because how can a sound of a heavenly trumpet and the voice of the archangel be secret and quiet? He is coming back and every eye will see Him. But we are still brothers in the Lord even if we differ on that subject.
loveprodigy I understand your argument but where do you see pre trib rapture in for example words of Jesus in Mat. 24?
loveprodigy Well in Matthew 24 I find only one coming of the Lord not two comings. I see trumpet sounding after the tribulation of these days. Even the angels will gather the elect from all the corners of the earth and that will take place after that difficult time. But You brother try to put it all before the tribulation. Sorry I will not buy it. I have myself been into dispensationalism (Ryrie, Walvoord, Fruchtenbaum, Ice, Price, Chafer, Lutzer etc.)for about three years but when I read my Bible and listened to arguments of the other side (post trip) more and more questions arose in my mind. I prayed to God and read the Word. And My eyes had been opened to the truth. Hallelujah! I left that school of dr Scofield and went back to what I believed before - post trib. 2 Tes, 2,1-3 says clearly that comin od the Lord and our gathering with Him will take place after the apostasy and antichrist. Even first chapter of this epistle teach post-trib. Check it for yourself if you want to be faithful to the Bible. Blessings
loveprodigy yes... we,ll all find out what was the right view. Blessing!
God bless!
2thess. 1:6-8 denies a Pre-tribulation rapture. Most of the time skipped over in these discussions. I wonder why. But it says the church receives rest from her persecutions when..? At the Pre-tribulation rapture? You certainly would think so. No. It says, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in flaming fire, dealing out retribution on HIs enemies. So how is that possible with a Pre-tribulation rapture? Please explain from this passage, without bringing other passages into the discussion - if you can.
imminent rapture...so we will skip Ezekiel 38 & 39 then?
SuperEROQ No imminent rapture. It is on a set day.
imminent means it can happen at any moment.....so the rapture is not imminent....certain scripture prophecies must be fulfilled first....it becomes imminent when all prophecy has been fulfilled
It is on a set day. No imminence. That was to be taught until the antichrist revealed that we are in the last 7 years. Now it is no longer imminent. Oct. 2, 2016 is last day of tribulation and the next day is Feast of Trumpets, first of the last 3 Feasts of the Lord that have yet to be fulfilled. The Bible says this is when He returns. Don't be blind or dumb.
David Paul No man knows the day or hour not the angels nor the Son (nor David Paul) only the Father
You better understand the subject matter...Matthew 24:35 HEAVEN AND EARTH SHALL PASS AWAY, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Mark repeats it 13:31 HEAVEN AND EARTH SHALL PASS AWAY: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. This happens AFTER the 1,000 year reign of Jesus.
Air (strongs concordance Greek #109 breath- not sky or atmosphere-meaning your breath of life body or spirit body)Backed up in I Cor 15:52 at the last trump( when Christ returns) the dead shall be raised incorruptible , & we shall be changed
Eze 37:9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
You bring up a good point. The "air" you seem to be referring to in 1Thess 4 is like what I call the "animation" spirit, the part of the Holy Spirit that gives every breathing thing life. That perfectly fits the verse because our dead bodies would then come to life. But it ain't pre-trib.
The imminent rapture is referring to the day a believer dies in christ on his last day of life. The end time rapture is a different event and not imminent as it is prophesied at a specific time. Most of the prophecies are dual just like the OT prophecies were. Near and far fulfillment. These guys have been teaching the same thing for so long, they dont realize the new knowledge that has been revealed, the sealed book of Daniel has been opened.
Read John 6:39-54. Jesus states in this passage four times that He will raise up His believers at the last day. And according to 1Thessalonians 4:16-18 the Resurrection happens before the "catching up". Last day Resurrection and last day rapture.
He is coming again here to earth to start his new kingdom here on earth at the end of this age, we are not going to heaven, heaven is coming to earth
The Rapture is by no means imminent. Can we be both logical and scriptural?
⚫ Jesus said the son and moon would be darkened "immediately after the tribulation of those days" (Matthew 24:29)
⚫ The son and moon are darkened at the opening of the sixth seal, as clearly stated in Revelation 6:12,13.
⚫ Therefore the tribulation must be *over* as the sixth seal is being opened.
⚫ Jesus returns at the "last trump" (1 Cor 15:52, also 1 Thess 4:16) to resurrect the "dead in Christ." The "last trump" is the seventh of the seven trumpets that make up the _seventh_ seal (Revelation 8:1 through 11:15)
⚫ Given that the sixth seal comes _before_ the seventh seal (and the 7th seal's seven trumpets) it is obvious that the tribulation is over well before Jesus returns and resurrects the dead in Christ. *The sixth seal, and the first six trumpets of the seventh seal must all occur after the tribulation but before the "last trump."*
⚫ Quoting 1 Thess 4:16,17: "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ *shall rise first:*
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
Those who are "alive and remain" are "caught up" *after* the resurrection of the "dead in Christ" at the "last trump." They are "caught up" _with_ the resurrected, to "meet the Lord in the air". . . well after the tribulation is over.
⚫ Pre-tribulation rapture??? Not in my Book.
ps Just read the order of events Jesus gave in Matthew 24:29-31. Tribulation first; then "immediately after the tribulation of those days" comes the darkening of the sun and moon and the sign of the son of man. Sometime after all that He "shall gather together his elect."
the oldest church manual---- Didahe 50-60 AD chapter 16 3-8 3 For in the final days the false prophets and seducers of the faith will be multiplied. The sheep will be turned into wolves, and love into hatred. 4 For when lawlessness increases they will hate, persecute, and betray one another. Then the world-deceiver will be manifest as a son of God. He will perform signs and wonders, and the earth will be delivered over into his hands. He will perform lawless deeds, unlike anything done from eternity. 5Then all human creation will come to the fire of testing, and many will fall away and perish, but those who endure in their faith will be saved by the curse itself. 6Then the signs of truth will be manifest; first a sign of a rip in the sky, then a sign of the sound of a trumpet, and third a resurrection of the dead. 7But not of all the dead. For as it has been said, “The Lord will come and all of his holy ones with him.8Then the world will see the Lord coming on the clouds of the sky… its post trib FACT!!!!
Precious people.... Just read Jesus’ words...Matt.24:29 29 Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’ 30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.…
that's when He gets His Obedient People...the ones who love not their lives unto the death and who keep the Commandment of God and the Faith of Jesus...and have been blessed to see that Paul is NOT in any way sent/approved/appointed or acknowledged by Jesus=(Yahushua His real Name) as anything BUT a big test to see who will use Paul to override Jesus' words in Matt 5:17 -18 17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…( all the prophets prophecies will not be accomplished until after Jesus' 1000 year rule on earth...so all the law is for all who hope to be in His kingdom...Jesus took back the priest hood unto Himself, and He stands as the sacrifice...His blood is the blood of the covenant that lets us have the privilege to obey=(Stop sinning) and live (Not Sin our butts off and think HE SAVES US BY GRACE through faith)...that's Satan's trick talk through Paul’s pin. Paul fails the Isaiah 8:20 test. And the Deut. 13:1-5 test.. and ALL in Asia (Turkey) where Jesus’ 7 churches were listed in Rev....all those followers of Jesus rejected Paul's STUFF...Paul said so in 2 Timothy 1:15… read the book called Jesus’ Words Only by Douglas J. Del Tondo.
Follow Jesus Only and OBEY Him and All the Commandments of GOD NOW time is short!!! You must become like a little child and learn, and obey DADDY GOD to have Jesus stand as your Savior, beloved. This is offered with love. You were born into a WAR for your Immortal Soul. Take this War Seriously! Only a full surrender to King Jesus and Obedience to GOD’s WORD can SAVE YOU!
Neither Saturday nor Sunday are GOD’s 7th day! You need Gen.1:14 and the calendar God gave His servant Enoch to rest on His 7th day, ask Him to teach you… Your Eternity is at stake!
THE Gospel of THE KINGDOM is WHAT JESUS PREACHED:
WHICH IS “REPENT for the KINGDOM of Heaven is at hand!”
TO REPENT = RETURN to OBEY GOD’s 10 Commandments and instructions for right living!!!TRUE FAITH OBEYS!
THINK ABOUT THIS…. If we are no longer under GOD'S LOVE LAWS, the 10 Commandments, (as the self-appointed so-called "Apostle "Paul claims) then Why are the lawless (who are Believers, who call Jesus Lord, Lord) cast away from Him in Matt.7:21-23? Matt.7: 21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name, drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Let this sink in...then get out of paganized sun god Sunday, Christ-MASS. ISHTAR=EASTER "Churchanity" and obey Jesus' WORDS ONLY! Eternity is a longtime to have pay for rejecting Jesus and Following Paul! Be Blessed,Beloved.
Please don't get stuck on the LAW. You can only be saved by God's GRACE, which is solely through faith in the redemption provided through the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. Philippians 3:9, “And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.”
II Thes. 2:3... For that day, the coming of the Lord, shall not come, except there first comes a falling away, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.. Therefore, the Rapture is "Not Imminent", for these things must first come to pass... It's there for the reading...
Well done. Your absolutely right.
The rapture is not imminent. If you knew God's feast days like you should, you would know that it is 7 - 10 days after "Trumpets". Jesus fulfilled the first 3 on this first coming, Passover, Unleavened Bread, resurrection. Pentecost and the birth of the church was 50 days after the resurrection and the last 3 will be on his 2nd coming. Trumpets, Atonement and the Day of the Lord will all be in quick succession after the Tribulation and during Jesus 2nd coming. Then we will enter the millennial reign for 1000 years. Please read your Bible and pray for understanding.
+Tom K ....."For that day shall not come, except there come an (apostasia) VANISHING...DEPARTURE...and that man of sin be revealed..."
The Day of the Lord when he touches down on the Mt. of Olives WITH all the Saints....will not happen until there is the GREAT DEPARTURE...Rapture....and the son of perdition is revealed......then, then.....THEN will the Day of the Lord happen.....the Rapture is NOT the Day of the Lord....it is simply the gathering together of His body in the clouds.....
.........."Falling away" is a poor translation in the King James Version.........all old Bibles in the 14th and 15th centuries render the word (departure or vanishing)........falling away- creates confusion when there is none. Thus the Rapture IS TRULY imminent.......see the Patrick Heron utube video on this.
Paul restates what he just said brilliantly, so that nobody will misunderstand what he just said...."Now ye know what witholdeth....HE (the Chruch) who now letteth (restrains), will continue to let (restrains) until HE be taken out of the way."
HE is still here because HE has not been Raptured yet. What is witholding the asntichrist is the giant spiritual body of Christ. The body of Christ will be GATHERED TOGETHER before the Day of the Lord takes place.
Tom K the falling away is not the church( body of Christ) it is referring to the Jews. They are always falling away and worshipping idols. After the rapture they become even more stiffed necked. Please go to Lonnie Martin on UA-cam to learn to rightly divide God's Holy Word you will learn more in a day than most do in ten years.
The bride of Christ is not he church, Jesus is NOT marrying Himself!!! The bride is and always will be Israel ( the Jewish people). Hence the story of Homer, Israel is always being chased by God. They will be united again. Like redoing their vows. Please go to Lonnie Martin on UA-cam to learn to rightly divide God's Holy Word you will learn more in a day than most do in ten years.
The rapture can't happen at any time. It's an appointed time.
Muddled myth and make believe - but I guess such fantasies are a lot of fun, though you're burying your head in the sand - it is time to let go of religion and develop a new world philosophy - based on reality...
@6:00, these liars explain the imminent return of Christ, through vague twisting of scripture.
If they are correct, and 1Thes.1:10 is a scripture of imminent return, then, it is in direct conflict with Paul's 2nd letter to the Thessalonians, chapter 2, verses 1 through 4...that anyone teaching the imminent (at hand) return of Christ, is a deceiver.
So these men are deceivers according to 2Thes.2:1-4...and certainly Paul did not contradict himself in these letters, did he? Or was the 2nd letter, simply a clarification of the 1st?
There is no pretribulation rapture.