American Calvinism - the Deep Theology of US Culture

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  • Опубліковано 4 лют 2025
  • Patreon: / wescecil
    An exploration of the influence of Calvinism on contemporary American Culture. Note - The Catholic church has a history of attacking witches and others, notably Jews, who they perceived to threaten their communities. There were theological differences in the attacks from Protestantism, but this seemed of little comfort to those threatened by religious authorities.
    www.wescecil.com

КОМЕНТАРІ • 474

  • @Not-Impressed..1821
    @Not-Impressed..1821 5 місяців тому +89

    My bad eyesight made me read it as American Cannibalism.
    I wasn't far off.

    • @Pappaous
      @Pappaous 5 місяців тому

      Just another tool in the shed to manipulate people.

  • @cargotrailerkenny
    @cargotrailerkenny 5 місяців тому +5

    Your channel and your approach is definitely worthy of a thumbs up and subscription. Thanks, I enjoyed the episode. You hit the proverbial nail on the head.

  • @Bakarost
    @Bakarost 5 місяців тому +111

    The more and more i learn about extreme protestant movements and how america was a safe haven the more more i see most of american problems stem from these groups

    • @JerehmiaBoaz
      @JerehmiaBoaz 5 місяців тому +26

      (European here) What's important to emphasize is that these radical protestant movements weren't just driven to emigration because they were different but because they were a menace to the less strict protestants they lived amongst. People tend to get mad at puritans who tell them that not only they're going to hell for having the wrong beliefs but that they're behaving so atrociously bad that they're also responsible for the spotless puritans ending up in hell.

    • @jamessheffield4173
      @jamessheffield4173 5 місяців тому +6

      Roger Williams and the Creation of the American Soul: Church, State, and the Birth of Liberty by John M. Barry (Author)
      A revelatory look at how Roger Williams shaped the nature of religion, political power, and individual rights in America.
      For four hundred years, Americans have wrestled with and fought over two concepts that define the nature of the nation: the proper relation between church and state and between a free individual and the state. These debates began with the extraordinary thought and struggles of Roger Williams, who had an unparalleled understanding of the conflict between a government that justified itself by "reason of state"-i.e. national security-and its perceived "will of God" and the "ancient rights and liberties" of individuals.

    • @culturedboor
      @culturedboor 5 місяців тому +5

      It’s a really mixed bag. Strengths and weaknesses come from this source. And of course some qualities are at once strengths and weaknesses depending on what aspects of life they are applied to, how they are applied, and to what degree. It’s quite a fascinating mess to sift through.

    • @william6223
      @william6223 5 місяців тому +5

      I am done with Christianity, all 3 major sects, Roman Catholic, Russian Orthodox, and Protestantism, with its worse aspects within Calvinists.and Jesuits. And scriptural dogmatism.

    • @jamessheffield4173
      @jamessheffield4173 5 місяців тому +3

      @@william6223 Lord have mercy.

  • @mntnwzrd66
    @mntnwzrd66 5 місяців тому +72

    Calvinism sounds like a precursor of Social Media. Calvinism plus smart phones equal something terrifying.

    • @truthseeker5698
      @truthseeker5698 5 місяців тому

      Calvinists are so
      Pretentious , Pharisees of modernity.

    • @davidwright8432
      @davidwright8432 5 місяців тому +4

      Exactly! Big Brother, and Sister, and Aunt, and Uncle, and Cousin, and - well, everyone - is watching you. 24/7. As Gulliver was kept tied down by the Liliputians, we're tied down by the censorious gaze of untold millions. They ain't jest comin' to get you. They got you fer shur.

    • @claesvanoldenphatt9972
      @claesvanoldenphatt9972 5 місяців тому +1

      @@mntnwzrd66 also a replay of Islam.

    • @rosseesokol5559
      @rosseesokol5559 5 місяців тому +5

      My history professor on university years ago told me: if you want to know spiritual inspiration for communism and nazism then go read about Calvinism. 😂😂

    • @belen3732
      @belen3732 5 місяців тому

      What???

  • @johncalligeros2108
    @johncalligeros2108 5 місяців тому +181

    The Calvinist doctrine of double predestination for which there is limited, rationally theological justification and just as little biblical evidence, has been one of the major sources of American exceptionalism. It squares with Judaism's understanding of the ethnonationalist exceptionalism of the Jews as God's chosen people. Hence the unholy alliance of the US and Israel, which is presently the greatest single threat to world peace.

    • @redchannels22
      @redchannels22 5 місяців тому +23

      The theological foundation for American support for Israel is a form of Dispensationalism popularized during the 1980s, which is decidedly not Calvinist in origin. Traditional Calvinism teaches covenant theology and is postmillennial.

    • @m0ckingB1rd42
      @m0ckingB1rd42 5 місяців тому +1

      Yea no. That an antisemitic Christian take on what Jewish chosen-ness actually means. Maybe…idk…talk to any Jewish person? What Judaism actually believes is that Jews were chosen for a particular job, that everyone else refused to do (G-d asked and they refused). Most Jews will tell you it’s like being the sibling that was “chosen” for some chore none of the other siblings wanted to do. Jews don’t think they’re better than anyone, and THEYRE NOT A PROSELYTIZING RELIGION. UNLIKE CHRISTIANS, they don’t believe that Judaism is the only path to Gd. They don’t believe anyone will go to hell for not believing what they believe. Your statement and misinterpretation of Jewish culture and teachings comes straight from Christian projection of its own faults onto its favorite scapegoat, guess who that is. Lol

    • @JHimminy
      @JHimminy 5 місяців тому +9

      @@redchannels22waaaaay older than that. See essay by Walter Russell Meade in Foreign Affairs circa the “Israel Lobby” book debate.

    • @johncalligeros2108
      @johncalligeros2108 5 місяців тому +17

      @@redchannels22 My concern is not 'the theological foundation for American support of Israel'. From a sociological-psychological perspective, I am trying to address American and Israeli exceptionalism (and its attendant isolationism), which I see as comparably based in some notion of divine election, and which remains insusceptible of rational - and therefore theological - articulation.
      'And, virtually all societies and groups have made and make such claims to Divine choice, spanning from the smallest primitive tribes (as in anthropological accounts) to the largest ancient and modern civilizations and empires, including the Chinese, Indian, Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Ottoman, Spanish, Dutch, British, French, Russian, German- Austrian, and American (Giddens 1984; Steinmetz 2005). If all nations or peoples claim to be “One Nation Indivisible under God” or the Divinely “chosen people”, then none is, for the latter is precisely only one, a paradigmatic “impossibility theorem.” Presumably, this problem can be “solved” only via religious wars as what Simmel1 calls (collective) “ordeal by combat” as the mechanism of proving by “fighting and winning” mutually exclusive claims (“who is right”), thus making brute military might legal right. Hence, the problem is “solved” by means of a permanent crusade or jihad (Turner 2002) and the elimination of “ungodly” or “infidel” nations, a moment that US “reborn,” like Islamic, fundamentalists overlook or “forget” by continuing and expanding these old Puritan claims to Divine choice and “holy” wars on the “evil” world.' (Milan Zafirovski, The Destiny of Modern Societies: The Calvinist Predestination of a New Society, Chapter 1, America's Destiny And Calvinism, The “First New Nation” and European Calvinism, Brill, Leiden, Boston, 2009, p 8).
      ,
      The latter point, concerning a holy war against the 'unchosen', doomed to perdition, as for example was the case for the Japanese in World War II, who suffered the divinely appointed and sanctioned wrath of American technological, military supremacy in what has arguably ushered in 'the eschatological age' on August 6 and 9 at Hiroshima and Nagasaki respectively, is once again exemplified in the American-Israeli experience of the 'war' so-called, on the 'unchosen' inhabitants of Gaza, who can be 'eliminated', 'liquidated', 'taken out' with impunity, according to the Judaic tradition of 'herem' and its subsequent Christian incarnations which were played out in the American holocaust of its indigenous peoples.
      As for Calvinism's claims regarding predestination, I see them as parallel to the pious fatalisms of certain aspects of Hindu doctrines of karma.

    • @billyfudd818
      @billyfudd818 5 місяців тому +1

      @@johncalligeros2108 wowzers! Thanks for the references.

  • @nemo-i1e
    @nemo-i1e 5 місяців тому +8

    Many years ago my ex-brother-in-law gifted me a Calvin and Hobbes comic funnies book for my birthday, at that very instant I perceived the gift to be a double entendre referring to Calvinism because of both his intellectualism and the disguised disdain he felt for me

    • @iw2356
      @iw2356 5 місяців тому

      Don't worry, Calvin and Hobbes is funny, it is not some disguised pamphlet for religion, which I would admit it sounds like!

    • @JimTheCurator
      @JimTheCurator 4 місяці тому

      I take it you're a fan of Thomas Hobbes as well then?

  • @Matatabi6
    @Matatabi6 Місяць тому

    This might be the best video I’ve watched in years. A perfect encapsulation and communication of ideas that have been amorphously bouncing around in my head for years.

  • @davidcarr7436
    @davidcarr7436 5 місяців тому +40

    I believe it was Maryland that was founded by Lord Baltimore, as a Catholic colony. And don't forget the biggest Catholic colony in the area, French Quebec.

    • @Jebediah1999
      @Jebediah1999 5 місяців тому

      It was a felony to be Catholic in Virginia up until 1775.

    • @ekesandras1481
      @ekesandras1481 5 місяців тому +2

      and Louisiana.

    • @davidcarr7436
      @davidcarr7436 5 місяців тому +2

      @@ekesandras1481 Acadian Francophones from Nova Scotia, deported by the British to Louisiana.

    • @johncasey1020
      @johncasey1020 5 місяців тому +4

      @@ekesandras1481 Louisiana was Catholic when it was New France. :)

    • @indi-f8j
      @indi-f8j 5 місяців тому

      That is correct. The Republic of New Hampshire was almost violently independent from both Catholic and Puritan. Many were Quakers or descendants of the original Quaker families who were persecuted. This isn't a point that isn't explored much. The did not wish to be part of the US or Canada. Some of the families refuse to participate in the American Revolution as war was against their religion, and we went to Canada, but most stayed and fought valiantly during the American Revolution. The witch trials reinforced their belief that living away from the Puritans was necessary.so they allied with the Indians through their missionary work It doesn't seem to be widely understood that they were "the strangers". So their journey to founding Connecticut, Vermont, Maine and New Hamsphire, steadily moving west through New York state continued.They were also greatly influenced by Mother Ann Lee and her Shaker beliefs that were influenced by French Camisards that also immigrated to the New England colonies.

  • @anthonybonadies3388
    @anthonybonadies3388 5 місяців тому +31

    Never even thought or heard about how Calvinism has shaped the US, but it's all starting to make sense. Guess I better get back to the cauldron!

  • @JennyT101
    @JennyT101 3 місяці тому +2

    The insights on how Calvinism affected the American psyche is fascinating. I never made these connections before.

  • @eightones
    @eightones 5 місяців тому +4

    The underlying shift from Calvanism to Americanism is the synthesis between being reaffirmed by the community in lines with being good to being successful. That's because of materialism.

    • @ongobongo8333
      @ongobongo8333 Місяць тому

      Calvanists are not good people though. at least successful people have something to show. Christians do not live in a moral way.

    • @Adam-ue2ig
      @Adam-ue2ig Місяць тому

      Calvinism.

  • @JarrodEstrada-c9j
    @JarrodEstrada-c9j 5 місяців тому +2

    Thank you I found this video very informative and unlike any other lecture I’ve heard on the subject . Nothing on this video was regurgitated tired facts … great job thank you

  • @somerandomvertebrate9262
    @somerandomvertebrate9262 5 місяців тому +4

    Maryland was the colony initially founded in 1634 as a haven for England's Roman Catholic minority.

  • @Charlie-Em
    @Charlie-Em 5 місяців тому +17

    I love that you just put this out. I've been more or less telling the same thing to people but less sophisticated lol, now I have the vocabulary and articulation for it

  • @asd94623
    @asd94623 5 місяців тому +5

    I guess the Catholic equivalent for a justification of hard work and consistency is the "plus ultra" philosophy that was/is still the "motto" of the spain country (although as a country they fall short on producing what spain empire did, anyways....) "Plus ultra", in essence, speaks of a moral call to always go beyond what is needed or expected or in otherwords, always give more than what you would be expected to give...which I found out recently that is actually not seen good in some protestant societies, e.g. Switzerland....where the expectation is to do enough to do good but simultaneously to not make others look bad.....a very thin balance.....

  • @DanielBShaw
    @DanielBShaw 5 місяців тому +9

    An example of Calvinist thinking when the whole focus is on election: "Let's build a shining city on a hill so we can be an example to all the reprobates who don't have a chance at redemption. Let's create a Christian society even though most people will never be truly elect like we are."

    • @pedroguimaraes6094
      @pedroguimaraes6094 3 місяці тому

      A lot of strawmans in this video. Calvin literally said in his Institutes that we should not speculate about election and the Westminster Confession also affirms the same.

    • @DanielBShaw
      @DanielBShaw 3 місяці тому

      @@pedroguimaraes6094 Do you ever wonder if you are elect?

    • @pedroguimaraes6094
      @pedroguimaraes6094 3 місяці тому

      @@DanielBShaw I have, but when o correctly understood the doctrine of predestination and, more importantly, the Reformed doctrine of the sacraments and union with Christ, i felt more at ease. Reformed theology is a coherent whole system, if you take away one part, the rest makes no sense. For this reason, it is the Congregationalist and "Calvinist Baptist", who reject the reformed theology of the sacraments, who historically have ended up failling into this need to hyperemphasize and speculate about election.

    • @DanielBShaw
      @DanielBShaw 3 місяці тому

      @@pedroguimaraes6094 That's interesting. I've noticed how Reformed folks seem relatively unconcerned with their election status. Instead, they focus more on the covenant, which emphasizes the sacraments. While being part of the covenant doesn't necessarily equate to salvation, it does shift the focus away from election.

    • @pedroguimaraes6094
      @pedroguimaraes6094 3 місяці тому

      @@DanielBShaw Precisely. For this reason, many Presbyterians and Continental Reformed deny "Reformed" status to Calvinist Baptists. Without Reformed Covenant and Sacramental Theology, the theological system does not work. This is why many Baptists and Congregational Puritans actually fell into hyper-Calvinism. Some, like Paul Washer, fall into an exacerbated need to "confirm to themselves salvation through good works." We, on the other hand, look to the promises of God and His Covenant, confident in God's unchanging character to fulfill them, and we believe in the sacraments as signs and seals of these promises, providing an objective basis for our faith. Finally, we believe that through the diligent use of the means of grace (Bible, Sacraments and Prayer), God will sanctify us, increase our faith and make us persevere until the end, confirming our election.

  • @jamessheffield4173
    @jamessheffield4173 5 місяців тому +12

    My plug for Richard Hooker - If asked “Which thinker exerted the greatest influence on the American founders?” most Americans educated enough to know an answer would likely reply with little hesitation, “John Locke.” If asked “Which theologian exerted the greatest influence on the development of English Protestantism,” many might hesitate a bit more, but would probably answer, “John Calvin.” But there is a strong case to be made that the answer for both questions should be the same, although it is a name probably unknown even to the vast majority of well-educated Americans-Richard Hooker, himself profoundly influenced by Calvin and a profound influence on Locke. Kirk Center Bing search

  • @ZanarkandIsntReal
    @ZanarkandIsntReal 5 місяців тому +18

    JFK was Catholic so I think it's more likely that he was referring to The City On the Hill as Athens, the birth place of Democracy, than as some kind of Protestant promised land. I think he's talking more about exporting Democracy to the rest of the world to combat Communism than he is talking about exporting some kind of Christian morality.

    • @lowersaxon
      @lowersaxon 5 місяців тому

      This went and goes hand in hand, religion and politics, in the anglophone radical (!) protestant world since the English civil war in the 1640s. It reached a climax in the early days of the colony when Puritanism ruled.
      Yes, JFK was a Catholic which was deeply suspicious in the US even in the 1960s. I remember an interview by a reporter after his inauguration who questioned his loyalty to the American people, „we or the Pope, whats your loyalty, Mr. President“?
      So he had to adopt to what is called „Americanism“ which literally is your „state ideology“, i.e. to bring down all Popes, papists, Kings, all aristocratic people and institutions and replace it by „the commons“, „we, the people“. In other words, „heal the world“ (tikkun olam in Hebrew terms), root up „tyranny“ in every conceivable form. Unfortunately this is complete utopian nonsense like Marxism/communism. Oligarchic Plutocracy or, if you like it better, plutocratic Oligarchy will be the endresult. Look around you.

    • @randomchannel-px6ho
      @randomchannel-px6ho 5 місяців тому

      A lot of Catholics also show up to do the motions and be (according to Catholic teachings) granted salvation through the rites and rituals and beyond that don't live lives defined by their faith at all. JFK definetly fits that bill
      The "I'm going to quote the bible (or in post modern hell 22st century America just reerence it's exisetnce vaguely) politican is a unoque product of protestantism.

  • @mvc4121
    @mvc4121 5 місяців тому +1

    Obedience to the self is what makes one successful powerful and loved. You’re in the image you are the key Judge you and take the path forward.
    The way is in you

  • @razvanandreiantonescurogoz4236
    @razvanandreiantonescurogoz4236 5 місяців тому +14

    When I was studying a Master's Degree in Philology in Romania, one of the compulsory readings for a subject that dealt with Globalization was Max Weber's "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism".
    While not focusing only on Calvinism, it was an eye opener. Basically it showed how this pride of individualism and rebellion against Church authority left people questioning how to be sure of their salvation.
    This ironically led to a "holier-than-thou" attitude, a focus on external behavior (much like the pharisees of Christ's time), a "work a lot to not have time to enjoy yourself" attitude, and with wealth as an indicator of God's grace, although parables in the New Testament like the ones about the rich man and Lazarus in the afterlife made no such correlation that rich = righteous or saved, quite the contrary.
    On top of all that, Protestants felt that lending money with interest was ok for some reason.
    They would focus on anything except Jesus on the cross and Christ's real presence in the Sacrament of the Eucharist. This is why prosperity Gospels or guaranteed salvation came to be such prominent things in the USA.
    But any person and any country can improve their financial status in the right circumstances. However, the real priviledge is having been baptized an Orthodox Christian and knowing other types of communities existed than the Protestant ones, knowing about the Church Fathers and knowing the "peacefulness of inquietude" regarding never knowing before death whether you will be saved or not, but constantly working with God through His Church to advance your spiritual relationship with the Trinity, all of which are concepts that elude the Protestant mindset.

    • @Steveorino123
      @Steveorino123 5 місяців тому

      Judaizers is a good description of the Calvinist. At its core is a special type of satanism

    • @knivesfriends5244
      @knivesfriends5244 5 місяців тому +4

      All of that is great, the only hole is the unspoken assumption that "holier than thou" is just (or mainly) a protestant thing. In my experience it is an absolute epidemic among catholic youtubers. Additionally there's an entire meme about Orthodox feeling superior to catholic and both feeling superior to protestant. So, who is the real "holier than thou"?

    • @razvanandreiantonescurogoz4236
      @razvanandreiantonescurogoz4236 5 місяців тому

      @knivesfriends5244 As a person, the more advanced you are in your spiritual journey, the bigger of a sinner you should feel (meaning you are at a point where each sin, even just of the thought, automatically feels more serious as a separation from God), just like Saint Paul claimed (1 Timothy 1:15).
      But if we are talking about Churches, who is the successor of the apostles, who kept all the dogmas and Holy Sacraments intact, who believes in the uncreated energies of God being present in the Liturgy, for whom the Holy Light comes down from heaven at Easter in Jerusalem, who is the bride of Christ... Then that is the Orthodox Church.
      You can and should defend the Orthodox Church, within the limits of your understanding and with permission from the priest you confess your sins to, while at the same time considering yourself the biggest sinner. I am not holier than thou, but my Church is Holy and the gates of hell shall not defeat it (Matthew 16:17-19).

    • @william6223
      @william6223 5 місяців тому +2

      ​​@@knivesfriends5244yes, I have experienced too much Roman Catholic discrimination, and strangley, many elements of their beliefs, I love, but I am damned as a heretic
      Imagine if we really did love one another?

    • @funnyguyinlondon
      @funnyguyinlondon 5 місяців тому

      Protestantism is gnosticism. An occult that became a religion. Christianity is factually perverted thanks to the Gospel of Paul. Then the gospel of St Augustine of Hippo (a Gnostic) was brought back by the Protestant reformers. Even more shit

  • @doubtleadstotruth
    @doubtleadstotruth 5 місяців тому +2

    Hi Wes! I love you videos! I was wondering if you would consider to make a video about the differences between Theology and Philosophy.

  • @brandongay1315
    @brandongay1315 4 місяці тому +3

    It’s important to note that the Calvinistic tendencies present in Americans have been purposefully exploited in order to hasten the downfall of American society, rather than it being solely the naturally occurring side effects of those tendencies.

    • @ardalla535
      @ardalla535 4 місяці тому

      Yes, except it was not so much to hasten anything, it was used as a device to concentrate power and wealth of certain groups. TV preachers are not trying to destroy America; they need it for cash cow purposes.

  • @sugarfree1894
    @sugarfree1894 5 місяців тому +7

    Very interesting thank you, UK here, always been fascinated by the US and the mindsets of its founders.

    • @alexcarter8807
      @alexcarter8807 5 місяців тому +1

      The US is like a car crash or a street fight. You can't not look at it.

  • @Kreeshawn
    @Kreeshawn 5 місяців тому +17

    I couldn't listen to this in my car because of your mic or the mix. There is a crazy amount of bass

    • @GreenCanvasInteriorscape
      @GreenCanvasInteriorscape 5 місяців тому +2

      If only your car had an adjustment for the bass👀
      Furthermore while listening it seems that you're having a hysterical prissy moment, the sound is perfect
      I had no issues with sound
      but I'm a Jew so things work for me perfectly listening online in seeing comments & throughout life, being chosen has its benefits

    • @geraldarcuri9307
      @geraldarcuri9307 5 місяців тому +2

      And bias...

    • @Rotwold
      @Rotwold 5 місяців тому

      No, you just have shitty speakers / headphones. It's absolutely fine.

    • @robertdegroot8302
      @robertdegroot8302 5 місяців тому +1

      It's the vocal fry that did it for me. Only lasted 3 minutes.

    • @ongobongo8333
      @ongobongo8333 Місяць тому

      ​@@robertdegroot8302weakness will not be rewarded with wisdom

  • @truecatholic1
    @truecatholic1 5 місяців тому +5

    I am a Catholic. This person doesn't know the Catholic faith. Example, excommunication doesn't mean that you are going to Hell. It primarily means that you can't receive the sacraments. A good source of information about Catholic history and teaching is the Catholic encyclopedia of the 1910s. It can be found at the website New Advent.

    • @truecatholic1
      @truecatholic1 5 місяців тому

      @@Ssssssssssssssss10 Whatever is this supposed to mean? Given that you don't quote Douay Rheims you are likely a Protestant.

    • @Adam-ue2ig
      @Adam-ue2ig Місяць тому

      He also mischaracterized Calvinism and Geneva as far as I'm concerned.

  • @Steveorino123
    @Steveorino123 5 місяців тому +11

    The early Puritans in America basically morphed into Jews. Earthly prosperity was God’s sign that you were the ‘elect’ or chosen by Him. Success in the world of business or farming, any endeavor of earning one’s living was considered a reflection of God looking fondly upon you as a person destined for heaven with Him. It has nothing much to do with Christianity and everything to do with the Judaism of the Old Testament.

    • @apchsiri1156
      @apchsiri1156 5 місяців тому

      "Protestantism is nothing more than a heresy of Judaism" (George Santayana)

    • @ardalla535
      @ardalla535 4 місяці тому

      Except the verse usually quoted to support Cash for Christ is John 10:10: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." "Life" is preached to be wealth. Idiots fall for it and fork over their penny banks. Is there a better example than Kenneth Copeland Ministries?

    • @asurrealistworld4412
      @asurrealistworld4412 4 місяці тому +1

      How does this square with what it says in James that God has chosen the poor to be rich in faith and inherit the kingdom while Jesus says it is easier for a camel to pass through a needle than for a rich man to enter his kingdom?

  • @bewareofchild2462
    @bewareofchild2462 5 місяців тому +2

    Wow, look, Cotton Mather is back! Excellent video, thank you.

  • @bonech1p
    @bonech1p 5 місяців тому +2

    Incredibly illuminating lecture. Thank you!

  • @BasedGauncho
    @BasedGauncho 5 місяців тому +1

    Best lecture I've seen all year. Great speaking/sound quality. Excellent flow of the narrative. It's really terrific work.

  • @DaveRosenthal-h4m
    @DaveRosenthal-h4m 5 місяців тому +5

    After a nice intro to the Reform movement and an odd caricature of Max Weber, this morphs into a Reductionist ramble. Not everything boils down to Calvinism after 200 years of immigration and Catholicism.

  • @ruthojen
    @ruthojen 5 місяців тому +1

    That really put me in a good mood. I especially loved your rant about being a burden on the state.

  • @alexcarter8807
    @alexcarter8807 5 місяців тому +11

    "They give it to you in your school lunches" - no kidding. It's normal in the US to, if a kid in school doesn't have their lunch bill paid, and hence has "lunch debt" the kid doesn't get a regular lunch they get something like a little sandwich consisting of two slices of Wonder Bread with a piece of "American cheese" in the middle. Lunch ladies will even, if a kid gets his lunch and doesn't have the money to pay, take the kid's lunch and dump it in the trash right then and there, then the kid is handed the little starvation sandwich.

    • @BeeJay1948
      @BeeJay1948 5 місяців тому +1

      Calvinism, pure and simple, simplistic evil … visited upon the child aka “original sin.”

    • @knivesfriends5244
      @knivesfriends5244 5 місяців тому +3

      That's not normal. I went to public school in the USA. Reality is they have free pb and j for free for everyone or you can buy a different hot lunch. Or you can bring your own. There's always kids who pay for lunch but are picky so they pick PBJ anyway. No school lunches are cool, the only cool lunch is when your parents pack it. So the idea of cool cafeteria food vs loser cafeteria food is a lie.

    • @Usernanm
      @Usernanm 5 місяців тому

      This was the normal arrangement at my public school, the only saving grace was the lunch lady taking mercy on us and giving us full lunches despite the school debt policy

    • @chickenfishhybrid44
      @chickenfishhybrid44 4 місяці тому

      Schools and how they work in the "US" can vary quite a lot. Also, kids who are poor or low-income have been able to get free lunch and often a breakfast at school for like 30 years or more. They have the same lunch options as everyone in that case.

    • @ardalla535
      @ardalla535 4 місяці тому

      I think back on all the great food we were served in elementary school and I hang my head. I either didn't eat it or gave it away. There was nothing wrong with that food. The women that worked hard to prepare it for the kids should have been given a raise. I was thankless little brat.

  • @funstuff2006
    @funstuff2006 5 місяців тому +4

    15:48 Missed opportunity to say ". . . the threat of the Witch is not that they are living differently, it's that they are - living. . ."

  • @psych320
    @psych320 5 місяців тому +15

    Im chinese background wasnt raised in the us, i dont agree with your analysis on Calvinsm or total depravity. Im a Christian, total depravity made me realize im worthless yes BUT THE HOPE is in Christ Jesus ALONE. nothing no philosopher no leader no intellect can do what Jesus did. The Hope is so strong that it turned my life around and i only fix my eyes and attention on pursuing the Holiness of God. Thats more than enough for my little worm like life that God gave me. All by God's grace❤

    • @alexcarter8807
      @alexcarter8807 5 місяців тому

      Sounds like Mahayana or "Pure Land" Buddhism to a T Read up on it, your guy got nailed to a cross and their guy sat under a fig tree but other than that they're the same.

    • @knivesfriends5244
      @knivesfriends5244 5 місяців тому +3

      They're not the same. Jesus isn't Buddha he's not Hercules he's not Baal he's Jesus.

    • @maximvs272
      @maximvs272 5 місяців тому +3

      @@knivesfriends5244 Jesus aint a hero or a prophet he's God

    • @christopherlord3441
      @christopherlord3441 5 місяців тому +3

      Unfortunately there is a simpler explanation. You have been lied to.

    • @dbarker7794
      @dbarker7794 5 місяців тому

      Sad to think you are "worthless." 😮

  • @stratostatic
    @stratostatic 5 місяців тому +1

    Excellent presentation!

  • @YABBAHEY1
    @YABBAHEY1 5 місяців тому

    This talk explains the fundamental human vicarious enjoyment of "fallen hero" entertainment. "Hey that scoundrel can redeem themselves, so can I." I've mostly been OK w/myself in my life time as a over simplification & the set up to these films, novels, etc..usually give me a inkling of consternation. Thinking : "Who are you attempting to appeal to ?" I still enjoy them if well acted, written etc.. but w/a subtle mental asterisk. Now all I need to find an answer to is why the majority of relationship/love scenes in the same give me a cringy or uninterested feeling. Very seldom are they based in reality might be one answer.
    But one concept I do appreciate is good writing & this essay was well done in all regards, thanks Wes

  • @wyattlauth1453
    @wyattlauth1453 4 місяці тому +1

    While some aspects of modern American culture may have been passed down from Calvinism, I believe this is more a product Calvinism being influenced by human nature, which hasn’t changed. A lot of it relates more to our natural pride and materialism which are common human traits across cultures worldwide. That being said, the puritan guilt definitely endures today in many forms likely as a direct result of Calvinism

  • @x13years
    @x13years Місяць тому

    Thank you, that is a great listen

  • @noxvenit
    @noxvenit 5 місяців тому +3

    The attempt to connect the notion of white guilt to the supposedly Calvinistic view of human sinfulness, and contrast it with the Roman Catholic view overlooks the fact that Calvinists and Roman Catholics largely similar understanding of Original Sin, and where they differ has no bearing on the doctrine of white guilt. It seems like you are making Puritans a proxy for Calvinism, which it isn't. You may know less about Calvinism than you do Roman Catholicism.

    • @God1stFoundation
      @God1stFoundation 4 місяці тому +3

      Completely agree! He’s placing his own thoughts into the average mind of any Calvinist/Puritan back then. Complete hackery.

  • @angryherbalgerbil
    @angryherbalgerbil 5 місяців тому +6

    Most of this problem actually stems from "Saint" Paul and his attitudes towards work and what to do with people who (in his eyes) aren't willing to work.
    Catholicism and Protestant Catholicism are heavily rooted in Pauline doctrine.
    Essentially Paulinism and Constantinism were the catalyst for globalism 2.0 that became the Roman Catholic empire after the Alexandrian globalism 1.0 was overthrown.
    We're now on globalism 3.0 which has it's roots in theocracy, but presents it's secular face through economic systems, technocracy, and supra-national think tanks, global corporate conglomerates, and centralised banks.
    None of it follows the teachings of Christ, and Christ, who he was, was already politically distorted by "Saint" Paul.
    Calvinists adopted Paul's views wholesale and confuse themselves entirely regarsing the messages and teachings of Christ or who he actually was and instead worship his death, and not love his life or find the love in life which christ was able to teach.
    And this is an age old struggle: The path of the sensitive heart contrasted with the path of the pragmatic mind.
    Ultimately the puritanical crowd want to eradicate the Freudian ID and do away with the biological truth of desires. They infact perpetuate the Adamic Fall by saying that their biological nature is shamefully flawed, and by doing so then say that God's creation is imperfect.
    They are "as white-washed as old tombs".
    The ID/Super-ego conflict is heavily pronounced in Catholicism. They strive for the perfect city, but forget entirely that they "should not lay up their treasures where moth and rust doth corrupt".
    The conflict between acts of faith, and acts of works is never going to be resolved by any theological system. And there isn't any religion that can fully or accurately understand the full Truth with a capital T.
    There is however some accuracy in the Calvanist assessment of how societies and communities veer into degeneracy. Their mistake is to try and counter it by increasingly forcefull or coercive authoritarianism (both soft and hard), not realising that the law of mutual arisings results in a further polarisation.
    Which is actually what they want "And the world shall be split in two". They want the separation of left and right into two distinct polarities so that the "judgement day" can take place.
    They become their own self-fulfilling prophecy simply by their own actions and by their own flawed reasoning. And worse still they focus entirely on the exoteric and discard the esoteric, the mystic, or the transcendental. Their approach hobbles spiritual growth rather than allows towards any deeper connection or understanding.

    • @jonmustang
      @jonmustang 5 місяців тому

      Fantastic write-up, thanks!

    • @thestraightroad305
      @thestraightroad305 5 місяців тому +4

      One of the longest struggles of my life as a Christian has been to separate myself from wrong thinking about God-legalistic, transactional, distant and critical-and begin to, as you beautifully put it, love the life of Christ and His love for life and people. Part of my growth in this was investigating the problematic teachings of Augustine and Calvin: (“Oh, THATS where that horrible wrong belief came from”) and studying the history of the Church. This helped me better understand the distinction between the teaching of man and the teaching of Jesus; to relax and rest and welcome God into my life as a friend. And respond to his invitation as well.
      Thanks for your thoughts.

  • @WayneGolding
    @WayneGolding 5 місяців тому

    That really clarified a lot for me. Thanks!

  • @michelleheltz6116
    @michelleheltz6116 Місяць тому

    I grew up Catholic and then became evangelical. I have to say a lot of behavior monitoring going on- eapecially - did you read your Bible? Did you have your quiet time? And other things. Went back to Catholicism and I am responsible for my own sins, go to confession, and good to go! It is a very different world of more freedom in Catholicism and less monitoring!

  • @scottcincinnatikid9804
    @scottcincinnatikid9804 5 місяців тому +4

    I would say that I am not a Calvanist and yet many of the things that you associate with Calvanism I agree with. Meritocracy, individualism, not being a burden on society. I see those all as good things. With your conclusion you seem to be arguing those are bad things? I believe you can have those values and not be a Calvanist. I would argue if more people had those values, society would be a better place.

    • @PrivateSi
      @PrivateSi Місяць тому

      Puritanism / Calvinism led to Witch Trials, Racism, Eugenics. Meritocracy is dependent on what are considered 'Merits', not being a burden is also relative to the society, and is anti-individualism. I consider sex workers and drug dealers oppressed pleasure providers, while US military and most cops our biggest burden.

  • @MONOTHROPITE
    @MONOTHROPITE 5 місяців тому +2

    I can agree with a lot of this but much is being attributed to calvinism that also exists in other cultures that were never influenced by Christianity or calvinism. Look deeper at what drove calvinism.

  • @raymondberry-ux2ed
    @raymondberry-ux2ed 5 місяців тому +3

    How does the Catholic Inquisition, Opus Dei, etc, fit into your postulate of a more laissez-faire (compared to Calvinism) cultural ethos of Catholicism?

    • @DeannaClark-oo9ut
      @DeannaClark-oo9ut 5 місяців тому

      They aren't truly Catholic...they are transactionally based and more about power than Jesus. Everybody talkin' 'bout Heaven ain't goin' there. old slave spiritual

    • @DeannaClark-oo9ut
      @DeannaClark-oo9ut 5 місяців тому +5

      Catholic cults and transactional organizations are not really Catholic....as the old spiritual says, "Everybody talkin' bout Heaven ain't goin' there." Putting up the Catholic brand is as easy as some jewelry and pictures.

    • @noxvenit
      @noxvenit 5 місяців тому +1

      @@DeannaClark-oo9ut So the Holy Office (of the Inquisition) was a Catholic cult (and still is then, in its current form as the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith), right?

    • @kino_punkt44
      @kino_punkt44 Місяць тому

      This was also my thought: the mad search for heretics seems like an obsession with purity, but maybe it’s not, but rather a top down concern by the church to not lose control of the people? The problem isn’t that they’re sinning but they’re not even going to church. Also, history proved them right in the sense that heretical sects did eventually take root and grow crazy.

  • @Roland96351
    @Roland96351 5 місяців тому +11

    This is a powerful assessment of our culture but a shallow reading of theology and a much too narrow view of history. Folks, go read some books so you don't rely on a voice on youtube to understand your world.

    • @jimdc4
      @jimdc4 5 місяців тому +4

      I’m interested in counter arguments and this isn’t one. There’s no substance. It’s a decree. At least point to a few books and why if you want validity.

  • @sahhaf1234
    @sahhaf1234 5 місяців тому +1

    Brilliant, as always..

  • @matthewmaguire3554
    @matthewmaguire3554 5 місяців тому +3

    Calvinism would be intolerable without Hobbes by his side.🐇

  • @justinthrift9603
    @justinthrift9603 5 місяців тому +4

    Wow. Tell me you have no understanding of Reformed Theology without saying it. What a dumpster fire! This has to absolutely be THE WORST 52 minutes on UA-cam, hands down.

    • @DenGleason
      @DenGleason 5 місяців тому

      Agreed. And the idea that leftists are Calvinist for trying to stamp out racism-the ideology that is inherently based on the idea of certain superior people having a moral right to rule lesser, uncivilized others?? Absurd. Racism is Calvinist. Those who call out racism are not engaging in some frivolous cultural policing, we are trying to stamp out an ideology that has promoted the exploitation of millions of people. The very framing of his point about secret racists being witch hunted is wild AF.
      Small “L” liberalism is fundamentally a belief that no human life is more valuable than another. We don’t call out racism out of some desire to identify the “good” people, we call out racism because racism is diametrically opposed to an equitable society. We give student loans to the poor because the poor need a boost in order to achieve the same outcome that a rich student gets automatically. The goal is not to pick out the good ones, but rather to put everyone on a level playing field where they have the same access to prosperity as everyone else-because we are not Calvinist and we do not believe that rights and opportunity should be given on a merit or morality basis.

    • @gregorymoats4007
      @gregorymoats4007 5 місяців тому +1

      I once attended a local lecture and half way through I wanted to yell at him stating he knew next to nothing of theology, let alone the skills of interpretation regarding scripture. Yet he’s quite the affable fellow!

  • @S.J.L
    @S.J.L 5 місяців тому +2

    I like your videos, especially the one on Zarathustra, it's the best summary I've found and have referred it to others.
    I'm working on a project related to Indo European religion and culture, East and West. I came to this subject through my studies of Christianity as a teenager via Zoroastrianism's influence on Judaism and Christianity. I have no ill will but I have been struck by the difference between the Middle Eastern mindset and the Indo European one during this study, if not longer. I think this is somehow the most taboo topic in the world but also the one most worth discussing because of the implications for understanding the past, present and future.
    The Abrahamic mindset is fear based, jealous, totalitarian, pretentious, linear, apocalyptic and utopian. Wokeness is like it's Jungian shadow. Indo European religions have a eternal and cyclical view based in respect for nature and "Nature's God" "The One" or Brahmin, cosmic harmony, darna-dharma and so on.
    It would be interesting to see a professor such as yourself take on the subject if you can risk it.

    • @theeternal2734
      @theeternal2734 5 місяців тому

      Which Abrahamic Religion?

    • @S.J.L
      @S.J.L 5 місяців тому

      @@theeternal2734 All of them, ultimately.

    • @theeternal2734
      @theeternal2734 5 місяців тому +1

      @@S.J.L Have You Actually Read The New Testament? Because That Collection Of Books Is Completely Antithetical To All Those Characteristics

    • @S.J.L
      @S.J.L 5 місяців тому +2

      @@theeternal2734 I read the entire Bible, not just the part you like, twice before I was fifteen. I'm intimately aware of the cult. Christianity is even more definitive of Zoroastrianism than Judaism but all of those characteristics are present from it's roots. If you want to make an argument against them then go ahead but there's no escape from the truth. Pretentious? Do you want me to spell that out for you? Fear based? Ever heard of eternal damnation? Jealous? The only way is through me... Apocalyptic and utopian...well... that's the whole psychological underpinning of the cult isn't it? Bertrand Russell, who I don't agree with on everything, made the same point about Christianity and communism a century ago and it stands. The cognitive dissonance of the whole of Europe, Perisa and the Anglosphere all goes back to the forced conversion of the populations to these despotic Levantine cults and mentalities. De Nile ain't just a river.

    • @theeternal2734
      @theeternal2734 5 місяців тому

      @@S.J.L You Have Read But You Have Not Understand, You Want To Base Your Ethics Off Of Mankind Which Btw Is The Cause Of All These Horrible Things Happening Since The Fall, The New Testament As It Is The Christian Part, Not The Judeo-Christian Part Is The Fundamental Basis Of All The Good Morals And Ethics That We Stand With Today✝️, For We All Have A Master, However Mine Is Everlasting, And Not Based On The Desires Of My Own Wicked Mind And Flesh

  • @HelionDark
    @HelionDark 5 місяців тому

    Great presentation didn't see it this way

  • @xispaster
    @xispaster 5 місяців тому

    Points of interest: Disecting the surname study correctly
    1) The official name of John "Calvin" according to French cathedral registries is CAUUIN. That is "Cau - uin"
    2) The second "U" was originally a French "V". This "v" can either be a vowel or consonant. If the "V" precedes a vowel it becomes a consonant. Therefore it is pronounced "Cauvin" in French.
    3) However, it is well documented that "Cauvin" Anglicized his name taking it into the English language where the second "U" is NOT read as a "V" but retains the "U" sound - Cauuin.
    4) In the English name transition, the last three letters are therefore read as "uin" and pronounced as - - "whin" (short "i") due to the "au" diphthong preceding it being "whiffled out" as seen in the 1611 dictionary.
    5) The diphthong "AU". This is pronounced in the old French as "O" as in "foe".
    6) Therefore, in the Anglicized form the name Cauuin is correctly pronounced
    C -oh - whin (short "i") exactly as the English "Cohen"
    7) The "L" in the name was from Cauuin's adaption of the Latin name he used in his university days, that of "Calvin", by which name he also became known in English as well as Cauuin. See the 1611 French/English dictionary for the consonant "L" in the middle of a word as being a silent "L", thus the archaic "Calvin" is still most properly "Cauuin" in both English and French. (dictionary link next column at bottom)
    References: John Calvin was not born "Calvin".
    From The Encyclopedia Britannica, 9th Edition, 1875, page 714==========================="... He was educated at the College du Montagu, where Loyola, founder of the Jesuit [Roman Catholic] sect, had studied. Cauin later moved to Paris, where he continued his studies with the Humanists from 1531-32. During his stay in Paris he was known as Cauin. He then moved to Geneva where he formulated his philosophy known as Calvinism. At first known in Geneva as Cohen (the usual pronunciation of Cauin), he Anglicized his name to John Calvin."

  • @jenna2431
    @jenna2431 5 місяців тому +24

    Calvinism is obscene. Christianity is bad enough, but then Calvinism takes that to a whole other level. Nobody needs a weekly book club to be a decent person who contributes to human flourishing.

    • @theeternal2734
      @theeternal2734 5 місяців тому +6

      Why Is Christianity Bad?

    • @OdinAllfather123
      @OdinAllfather123 5 місяців тому +2

      Hard disagree, it's actually the least bad form of christianity since it does away with all the hypocrisy, sophistry and constant guilt tripping of earlier traditions.

    • @Redeemedmed
      @Redeemedmed 5 місяців тому +3

      Decent human being by what standard? If it's a subjective one you can miss me with that moral relativism bs

    • @william6223
      @william6223 5 місяців тому +1

      ​@@theeternal2734yes.
      In order to remove the empire from paganism, Humanity is weaker and more conformistic/communist.

    • @william6223
      @william6223 5 місяців тому

      ​​​​​​@@Redeemedmed
      Really?
      Imagine a self righteousness which dismisses and ignores the whole truth and damns everyone else, who is not a conformist to your dogma?
      And considering us whom disagree with your original sin imposition or your moral relativism dismissal, we are a part of Elohim and the Body of Christ.
      I hope your paper palace falls immediately. What Puritans and Calvinists have done is rationalize their superior position in society and claim all of us are damned whom are not subservient to their missives.

  • @tefilobraga
    @tefilobraga 4 місяці тому +1

    Even granting that Calvinism/Puritanism seems to be having bad press (perhaps as one additional manifestation of the proverbial self-flagellation of the West), the views expounded here portray too pessimistic a picture of Calvinism/Puritanism. Regarding "all for the elect/nothing for the undeserving", whether we like it or not, this is the basis for meritocracy, which has made so much for the wealth and knowledge amassed by nations such as the USA and the Netherlands (not to say their sense of justice). If Calvinism/Puritanism contributed to curb nepotism in those countries and establish more impartial criteria for rewarding people, it was already worthwhile. But we know that, out of familiarity, people become weary of even good things...

    • @chickenfishhybrid44
      @chickenfishhybrid44 4 місяці тому

      Pretty much, attribute the negatives to puritans and assume positives happened in spite of it.

  • @BigChap117
    @BigChap117 5 місяців тому +6

    The original cancel culture, star culture, and corporate socialism. Basically a return to paganism.

    • @christal2641
      @christal2641 5 місяців тому

      Rather unfair to Paganism, what are your reasons? Christianity built on Stoicism, especially in monastic life.
      Where Calvinism deviates from BOTH Judaism and most Paganism, is that CALVINISM believed in the "Total Depravity of Humankind" and the emptiness of Nature. Pagans believed that Nature is ensouled, and from many, Nature is literally the Body of the Divine Creator.

  • @franciscomunoz2222
    @franciscomunoz2222 5 місяців тому +15

    This deeply ingrained idea of America as a people set apart and of exceptional divine transcendence was manifested in a ruthless march of posession from east to west -- Native Americans, African Americans, the sparse Catholic Hispanic population -- did not count.

    • @mlicciardello7884
      @mlicciardello7884 5 місяців тому +2

      I disagree, the "Exceptionalism of America" is free speech and the right to bear arms.

    • @william6223
      @william6223 5 місяців тому

      Yeah

    • @william6223
      @william6223 5 місяців тому

      ​@@mlicciardello7884I like that, but there are more than 150 details needed for a superior human society. For which Christianity does little to aid our advance.
      If Christians were not so dogmatic, maybe they could help.the rest of us, and United we could move Humanity towards health, harmony, strength, honor, greatness...

    • @franciscomunoz2222
      @franciscomunoz2222 5 місяців тому

      @@mlicciardello7884 African American slaves were not allowed to bear guns, and if they spoke up, they were lynched. Be well.

    • @apchsiri1156
      @apchsiri1156 5 місяців тому

      ​@@mlicciardello7884Freedom of speech and the right to bear arms were in English Parliament's Declaration of Right in 1689.

  • @ednorton47
    @ednorton47 5 місяців тому +3

    The fact that of the 13 original colonies, Maryland was founded as the Catholic colony, is something that American schoolchildren learn in elementary school. Somehow you missed out on this and yet are a professor?

    • @pumitriii6160
      @pumitriii6160 20 днів тому

      Yeah, he brought up some interesting ideas, but it's quite clear he has an exceedingly shallow understanding of them

  • @mickey_rose
    @mickey_rose 5 місяців тому +4

    This guy is so off on Calvinism and Cotton Mather. Straw manning all throughout this lecture. This is a caricature of Calvinism. Why start with Aquinas? Why not Augustine?Total depravity goes way back in church history.
    Judgey puritans… yeah yeah, we’ve heard it before. What’s the alternative? Jacobins in France?
    This guy sounds like Rousseau. That’s the true source of this rampant individualism. The enlightenment sowed the seeds of destruction for Burke’s “little platoons”.

    • @AB-et6nj
      @AB-et6nj 5 місяців тому

      Most of your comment is whataboutisms

  • @johnyarbrough502
    @johnyarbrough502 5 місяців тому +5

    The "out of sight rich" is one of the groups described by Paul Fussell in Class: the American status system (not the exact title) in the early 1980s.

    • @apchsiri1156
      @apchsiri1156 5 місяців тому +1

      The 1980s were the last gasp of social class in America. Nowadays there's only economic class.

    • @johnyarbrough502
      @johnyarbrough502 5 місяців тому

      @@apchsiri1156 Maybe so, but perhaps hard to knw. Celebrity rich may be some of the richest rich but a characteristic of the out of sight rich is that, while possibly not being the richest, they're out of sight.

  • @fatalinsomn1a182
    @fatalinsomn1a182 5 місяців тому

    I really enjoyed this. Thank you.

  • @carlanderson8556
    @carlanderson8556 5 місяців тому +4

    I am a calvnist. Not what I have experienced. I have only experienced very humble people people.

    • @jamesers99
      @jamesers99 5 місяців тому +1

      Same here. Calvinism is perpetually misunderstood and maligned.

    • @Usernanm
      @Usernanm 5 місяців тому +1

      Calvinism has grown and developed since colonial times, it is a large religion with different manifestation through the country

  • @williambranch4283
    @williambranch4283 5 місяців тому +1

    Anglo-American Israelitism may have started at Roanoke, but was definitely here at Plymouth. Jamestown was an irreligious foundation.

  • @nerian777
    @nerian777 5 місяців тому +1

    Where does materialism come from in Chinese society though?

  • @KasirRham
    @KasirRham 22 дні тому

    We'll teach them to play The Sims.... in "the global economy" a beautiful notion.

  • @lemurlaemu
    @lemurlaemu 5 місяців тому

    very interesting, also as an example of establishing a creed/sect/ideology. seems the recipe for a perfect snowball are: the right material/spiritual circumstances, a very charismatic leader, some further luck and appropriate cooking time :D

  • @genemyersmyers6710
    @genemyersmyers6710 5 місяців тому +16

    So Luther and Calvin were basically failures .

    • @Interne73859
      @Interne73859 5 місяців тому +1

      They were successful at creating an ugly false religion especially Calvin

    • @jamesers99
      @jamesers99 5 місяців тому +2

      Hardly. They changed the world for the better.

    • @Interne73859
      @Interne73859 5 місяців тому +5

      @@jamesers99 definitely not

    • @jamesers99
      @jamesers99 5 місяців тому +2

      @@Interne73859 looks like you've been lied to.

    • @Interne73859
      @Interne73859 5 місяців тому +2

      @@jamesers99 only by Calvin

  • @mcmxli-by1tj
    @mcmxli-by1tj 5 місяців тому

    For more, read: "Entrepreneurs and Capitalism since Luther"

  • @gerihuginn
    @gerihuginn 5 місяців тому +11

    Perhaps without usury wealth was generated by hard-working well-trusted families. It seems only fairly recently in history when a merchant class separate from the societies they do business in can operate outside of the standard of morally acceptable behavior.

    • @Lucky-Sevens7777
      @Lucky-Sevens7777 5 місяців тому +5

      Shhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! YOU’RE NOT SUPPOSED TO NOTICE THAT PART

    • @gerihuginn
      @gerihuginn 5 місяців тому +2

      @@Lucky-Sevens7777 Can’t unnotice once you’ve noticed

    • @Abby-mn7cp
      @Abby-mn7cp 5 місяців тому +3

      I notice too… more and more of us everyday.

    • @tomblaise
      @tomblaise 5 місяців тому +3

      Good luck getting a loan to buy a house, start a business, or go to university without usury.

    • @gerihuginn
      @gerihuginn 5 місяців тому

      @@tomblaise Curious how it works that Jews can give each other loans interest-free but nobody else. I guess that’s why the Catholic Church banned usury and the filth who practiced it.

  • @stephanieroberts4837
    @stephanieroberts4837 5 місяців тому +2

    Did you mean to say Aquinas in this episode or were you mixing him with Augustine, who is most well known for original sin? Either way, I think you were a bit too harsh with the reformers here, even if I definitely agree that the whole "I am a worm, I have no value" idea can make people miserable if it isn't presented together with the idea of how we are made righteous by God (I am lutheran myself).

    • @gregorymoats4007
      @gregorymoats4007 5 місяців тому

      Wes is always harsh regarding anything remotely Christian, or faith in God

  • @Silverhailo21
    @Silverhailo21 5 місяців тому +3

    Brilliant, excellent in-depth examination of this subject. This is something that I've intuited and considered for years at this point having read a lot of church history, European history and American history and I saw the reformed taint throughout both left and right politics. America has no idea how calvinist/puritan it actually is, it's seeped into the bones of the culture, It's one of the reasons it's so bigoted against Catholics.

  • @Interne73859
    @Interne73859 5 місяців тому +2

    I did a plenary indulgence to get Calvin out of purgatory in case he was still there. Even as much as I’m tempted to despise him I try to love my enemies

  • @philipcollier7805
    @philipcollier7805 5 місяців тому +13

    11:00 Calvinism sounds just like Maoism. Lots of rules, surveillance, self-confessions, denunciations, and collective punishment. Yeah, enjoy that perfect living!

    • @lawLess-fs1qx
      @lawLess-fs1qx 5 місяців тому

      yep millions dead trying to create utopia's.whether protestant or communist.

  • @darkmattertv3615
    @darkmattertv3615 5 місяців тому +2

    Great video lecture! Very interesting religio-capitalist tendency in American Calvinism!

  • @billanderson1075
    @billanderson1075 5 місяців тому +1

    As a Jesuit educated Irish American Roman Catholic, I am definitely not a Calvinist.
    The Puritans emigrated to New England after getting kicked out of England following the death of the dictator Cromwell and the Restoration of King Charles II in the 1660s. The Salem witch trials were land grabs by the wealthy Puritan refugees arriving in Massachusetts in the 1680s in order to displace the original Pilgram colonists who occupied all the good farmland. When accused of witchcraft, a defendant could plead guilty to avoid hanging, but upon conviction the witch's' property was seized by the state and sold at auction to the wealthy newcomers. Giles Corey died by torture for refusing to enter a plea and saved his family property. In the 1720's these upright New England Calvinists largely transformed into anti-Trinitarian Unitarian/Congregationalists. Their major cultural influence is largely confined to the Northeast around Boston. On a surface level their influence was spread by Harvard and Yale educated teachers providing administrators for the public school system expanding into the Western States. The Thanksgiving holiday and books like "Moby Dick", "The Scarlet Letter," "Last of the Mohicans" and "Webster's Dictionary" were brought by these Harvard educated anti-Christian Unitarians using these texts to replace the KJ Bible as school textbooks. The Catholic school system in the US was set up to keep Catholic children from being propagandized by these New England zealots.
    The "City on the Hill" refers to Augustine's "City of God", not Winthrop. The US Constitution was largely written by the New England Federalists led by Adams who wanted a strong central government. The Bill of Rights were written in insisted upon by the anti-Federalists led by Thomas Jefferson from Virginia. His intent was to restrict the power of the government. Jefferson was an avid reader of the Jesuit Saint Robert Bellarmine, adopting his arguments for Social Contract opposing King James I arguments for the Divine Right of Kings. The vast majority of witch trials and burnings (50,000+) were in Protestant Germany, England and Scotland. Contrast this with the dreaded Spanish Inquisition (which was run by the Spanish Government, not the Catholic Church that had a separate Roman Inquisition) that only had jurisdiction over baptized Christians and executed less than 3,000 people between 1450 and 1750 including Satanist cults practicing cannibalism, abortionists, and serial killers. Modern antisemitism, like the witch craze, is largely an outgrowth of Luther's antisemitism and German nationalism. The Jews were protected by the Catholic Church until the French Revolution. The Jews in Spain and England (by evil King John) were expelled from those countries over the objection of the Pope and the Catholic Church. Catholic Bishops and monasteries regularly gave sanctuary to Jews during anti-Jewish riots - a practice continued during the Holocaust. Napoleon disbanded the Ghetto legal system and subjected Jews, who up until this point had their own separate legal system, to Civil Law to continental Europe.

  • @genemyersmyers6710
    @genemyersmyers6710 5 місяців тому +1

    The title is 100 % .

  • @sahilhossain8204
    @sahilhossain8204 Місяць тому

    Lore of American Calvinism - the Deep Theology of US Culture momentum 100

  • @alexzicker
    @alexzicker 5 місяців тому +2

    Very USA-centric, most of the New World was, and is, Catholic. The logic may be flawless but it ends up non-Christian.

    • @ghfudrs93uuu
      @ghfudrs93uuu 4 місяці тому

      The rest of the world is not like the US in these aspects.

  • @B-Mike
    @B-Mike 2 місяці тому

    I came across this video and the topic was interesting and I started listening. Sadly, the commentator is speaking almost in whispers and even with full volume I still miss what is being said.

    • @pumitriii6160
      @pumitriii6160 20 днів тому

      You're not missing out on much. The most this video will do for you is inspire you to look further into the subject yourself; he doesn't offer much substantive analysis in this video

  • @truthseeker5698
    @truthseeker5698 5 місяців тому +6

    Impossible to cohere/ coalesce the christ of Calvinism with Jesus The Messiah.

  • @JYReformer
    @JYReformer 4 місяці тому +1

    I listened to this whole video trying to see if there was a pure historical treatment of American History and the Puritans…unfortunately this is more of what the liberal academic community is all about; half truths with color commentary😂

  • @chemistrymickey
    @chemistrymickey 5 місяців тому +1

    While I don't disagree with any of your arguments, why would a "prosperity doctrine" win out against a "poverty doctrine" as a proxy for expressing how saved you are?
    Is it just a survivorship bias? Presumably a particularly fecund or wealthy group is more likely to survive as compared to an abstinent or poor one.

    • @errorite6653
      @errorite6653 5 місяців тому

      In a modern age, wealthy groups can only exist because of poor groups. But poverty is clearly ameliorable-we’ve had the technology to minimize it for nearly a hundred years now. At this point it’s just the remaining “elect” stuffed up in their nice suburbs praying they don’t get ejected from their pod as the world burns.

    • @damnmexican90
      @damnmexican90 5 місяців тому +2

      Nomanilism
      That's why. Poverty requires access to the universals. All protestants threw away universal in favor of particulars.

  • @damnmexican90
    @damnmexican90 5 місяців тому +2

    Utopianism, Nominalism, revolution
    Talk about triple threat to humanity.

  • @markadams8041
    @markadams8041 5 місяців тому +1

    Probably my favorite reporter, Chris Hedges, is Calvinist in his world view. I do think that addiction must also be viewed through this lens. The current theory of alcohol abuse spectrum is healthier and less Calvinist, my opinion. I do also believe that this was foundational in the John Brown terrorist attacks that led to the Civil War in 1860s and also the unabomber attacks must also be seen through the lens of this world view. Great start, brother!!

    • @Bronxguyanese
      @Bronxguyanese 5 місяців тому

      John brown was a big time mainline protestant or at that time in the 1860 evangelical. They believed slavery, alcoholism and women not at the ballot was wrong.

    • @alexcarter8807
      @alexcarter8807 5 місяців тому

      Chris Hedges is also part of the far-left, Israel/Jew hating crowd. He was happily broadcasting on RT, you know, the Putin network, for a while.

  • @DeannaClark-oo9ut
    @DeannaClark-oo9ut 5 місяців тому +5

    The crew of the Mayflower were simple Church of England Christians who did their duty with complacent faith. They loathed the Pilgrims who left even childcare and personal work to the crew...arguing incessantly over Bible verses. I don't see Aquinas as a world hater...he wrote "Grace builds on nature."

    • @henrik_worst_of_sinners
      @henrik_worst_of_sinners 5 місяців тому

      Aquinas and Westerners as a whole believe that Grace is created. Hence there is no direct relationship with God. This lead to Protestants rejecting the real prescense and other mysteries/sacraments. And ended up in the atheism that plagues the West today. Saint Gregory Palamas predicted this would happen to the West as he debated Barlaamites who adhered to Western dogmas, in the 14th century.
      In Eastern Orthodox christianity Grace is Uncreated, that is the Energies of God are Divine, but still distinct from God's essence. Eastern thought is not dialectical as it comes from true Hebrew thought. Western christianity is at core pagan and from Athens not Jerusalem.

    • @titanicisshit1647
      @titanicisshit1647 5 місяців тому

      @@henrik_worst_of_sinners so when you take dr*gs and do little rituals , it's not you just seeing things because you're on dr*gs but you're actually recieving messages from the creator of the universe himself , must be nice to be impressed by so little lol

    • @Adam-ue2ig
      @Adam-ue2ig Місяць тому

      Huh...most on the mayflower were seperatist puritans not with the church of England. That was one of the reasons they came to the new world in the first place. There was a small minority of church of England folks on the mayflower.

  • @cavaleer
    @cavaleer 5 місяців тому +1

    Connecting Marxist Eternal Victim/Villain mind games with Skin-Color Gross Generalizations is interesting but of course Marx stole his eternalizing word games from Hegel and Marx was a Jewish Lutheran Atheist, so I’m not sure where you draw those lines of influence. Disdain for homosexual behavior isn’t a function of Calvinism. Nice try though. Lol

  • @christopherellis2663
    @christopherellis2663 5 місяців тому +2

    A heresy that shares Predestination with Islam ☪️ great move, Jean Chauvin.

    • @noxvenit
      @noxvenit 5 місяців тому +1

      No, it shares Predestination with St Augustine, and is a variation on Aquinas's own view. Nice try.

    • @vitatover2449
      @vitatover2449 4 місяці тому +1

      ​​@@noxvenitCalvinism makes no sense to me. But I'm giving it benefit of doubt trying to learn about it fairly because I know these two theological giants are intelligent men, far far greater than me, so they could be seeing something I'm not. I just feel that if the God of Calvinism, he can't be a loving merciful one. He seems cruel. Bringing existence into being only to create pain and doom for a significant portion of the existing beings. And you can't change anything. You're here to suffer for my pleasure? It brings God down to human baser ways of operation. How can I feel less cruel than God. It's God. He's the height of goodness. I can never feel nicer than God. I wouldn't bring into existence people to let me down and merit hellfire. It's unnecessarily cruel. I don't want to be part of this elect.

  • @strategy0
    @strategy0 5 місяців тому

    Wild title. Got my attention fr

  • @ericwelvaert4780
    @ericwelvaert4780 5 місяців тому +4

    Very interesting video. It reminded me of Max Weber's theory on the origins of capitalism. it helps me to better understand Americans; who, for a European like me, are a constant source of amazement.

    • @alexcarter8807
      @alexcarter8807 5 місяців тому +2

      Believe me the view doesn't make any more sense to some of us in the belly of the empire.

    • @chickenfishhybrid44
      @chickenfishhybrid44 4 місяці тому +1

      It's always interesting me to how many Europeans are quick to deny or downplay any ethnic or cultural connection with the US or Americans but then will also act in awe about the fact that things aren't done just like they are in the EU. It's a weird dynamic.

  • @redknightsr69
    @redknightsr69 5 місяців тому

    Please everyone remember the more radical groups were know as "hyper Calvinist" and not how normal people thought.

    • @truthseeker5698
      @truthseeker5698 5 місяців тому +1

      Radical hyper Calvinists are simply consistent Calvinists.

  • @steventhury8366
    @steventhury8366 4 місяці тому

    I notice people who criticize John Calvin have no clue what John Calvin wrote.
    The legalistic Puritans strayed from Calvin's teaching.
    Satan is hard at work trying to snuff out the Gospel by falsley maligning Calvin.

  • @AndrewOkus
    @AndrewOkus 5 днів тому

    The " Frozen Chosen".

  • @anthonyp9316
    @anthonyp9316 5 місяців тому

    Thank you!

  • @OpaHutz
    @OpaHutz 5 місяців тому +1

    If you were prosperous you were helping others. Adam Smith 25:13 . Capitalism

  • @julianholman7379
    @julianholman7379 5 місяців тому +1

    What about it being 'as hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven as for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle' !? What can prosperity theology do with that juicy morsel of Scripture !?

    • @alexcarter8807
      @alexcarter8807 5 місяців тому

      Exactly. Jesus was basically a homeless dude who really didn't own anything other than his sandals and robe. Fun Fact: an artist did a number of bronze statues of ... Jesus sleeping on a park bench. A number of churches thought this was a great idea and installed them on their church grounds. The police were called on literal Jesus many a time and unless the statues have been removed, are being called still.

  • @ethanpettit
    @ethanpettit 5 місяців тому +1

    No equivalent to Boccacio or Chaucer in Protestantism? How about Milton.

  • @w1cked001
    @w1cked001 5 місяців тому +4

    First! Great way to start the day

  • @gabrielterrero4494
    @gabrielterrero4494 5 місяців тому +1

    As a calvinist i dont think this represent well our doctrine. Calvinist don't really ask if we are doing okay because we have faith in that we are already saved.
    That's what saved by grace means. The only way to know who is in or out of the way is at the time of dead.

  • @AlexAmellal
    @AlexAmellal 5 місяців тому +1

    Such a great listen, thank you

  • @S.J.L
    @S.J.L 5 місяців тому +3

    Interesting that responsibility for slavery is absolved for everyone who isn't "white." Evidence also suggests that Indo Europeans didn't have slavery or only in the most limited P.O.W. kind of way because they were herders and had no use for slaves like agriculturally based societies do. The more settled and adjacent to the middle East the more they picked it up. The implication being that while "white" cultures have practiced slavery, they historically only did so after encountering other societies where it was practiced and have repeatedly been crusaders against slavery. It's also crazy how we ignore racism towards whites and the masses of people defacto enslaved or literally enslaved across the world today.

    • @knightofkorbin888
      @knightofkorbin888 5 місяців тому

      Slavery largely is confined to history's underrepresented communal levels. Not many groups guilty of slavery or enslaved could, and therefore were chronicling, documenting, in addition to recording information shared through technology that is durable long term.
      Books for example were obviously a common tool designed for exchanging information but unreliable storehouses of knowledge. Given their materials could decay from entropy. Languages die. Oral traditions are lost, abandoned, or misinterpreted/miscommunicated/mistranslated over time.
      "Absolved of responsibility" is a weak attempt at deflecting from the known fact Europeans absolutely provided effective and efficient means for reporting slavery's crimes and developing a sufficient library for studying the consequences of their crimes. On both victims and perpetrators (individually and culturally). Compared to any other group practicing slavery, Europeans, especially Americans told on themselves thanks in part to their luxurious advancements in technology.
      Their system's slavery history arguably contextualizes what is now categorized as enslavement within English language dominant countries which emulate English culture. Their slavery somewhat defines slavery overall since ironically the perfect weapons for their downfall were available primarily in their domains.
      Notions on the concept predominantly refer to existing data which required constant historical archeological efforts to maintain, keep relevant in the cultural consciousness, recurringly inform, fostering awareness, and keeping many who debatably are vulnerable already to exploitation and discrimination alert for updated methods, rebrandings, or deceptively subtle modern forms of slavery.
      Creating pockets, whether from remnant groups connected to those were enslaved or someone interested in learning historical slavery, of scholars actively at work studying, remembering, teaching, reminding, and deepening the understanding of slavery.
      Slavery is a crime which the only people who want this crime's existence censored want whoever's interested in studying ideologies prone to enslaving human being's crimes silenced. Those who want slavery forgotten and erased want control over the future using history in order to manipulate those stuck the present day. The truth of why slavery is associated with Europeans is that they made their own slavery uniquely easy to research and uncover.
      Stories (oral traditions), written experiences (literature) either from 1st, 2nd, or 3rd perspective, and detailed examples sourced by the expert observers: mainly slaves who experienced slavery from a victim's perspective are, by necessity, rarely prevalent, popular, and of course permitted anytime anywhere there's enslavement on Earth.
      However, as in nearly all instances besides American slavery, proof remains scarely apparent nor recognized (from the outside). That's why current evidence persistently stays difficult to preserve/obtain across the world. "White" racism and their enslavement of multiple once subsisting societies is the easiest form of injustice to identify. Indirectly resulting from their technological innovations.
      Even now in the U.S. where slavery does in fact still exist in policies, conditions, and culture existing forms of slavery are obscured, locked away in secret, mystified, denied, hisden by illusions, and blocked behind officially private property walls.
      I agree, racism towards "whites" and international examples of contemporary slavery is ignored. However you do not begin to realize how privileged you are to know that information.

  • @panatypical
    @panatypical 5 місяців тому

    The stocks are such a righteous correctional device. I wonder if they ever merged them with ducking stools....