The reason Churchill included Hungary as part of the South German State in his partition, was to prevent it from falling under Soviet influence. (Plus, it could probably be somewhat justified because of Austria-Hungary)
He did succeed in keeping Denmark out of potential Soviet control by convincing Eisenhower and DeGaulle to allow the #FlensburgGovernment to exist for a half of a month.
Pff, I have over 2000 hours in various Paradox grand strategy games, some border gore isn't going to affect me! **Sees Churchill's partition of Germany** ...You beat me, Churchill. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go and vomit.
I'm bad at organizing borders in Stellaris, and have lost several wars. This has resulted in some pretty ugly borders, but I don't care. That one hurt my very soul.
Kinda... he wanted to create a kind of federal, parliamentary monarchy based on the Habsburgs in Austria, Hungary and Czechoslovakia, and a "Southgerman (Business) Confederation" with Bavaria, Württemberg-Hohenzollern and Baden, and this new "Austrian Empire" as protective power. As a counter-power to the Soviet Union in the Balkans. Balance of power and such a nonsense...
the important industrial zones were either international zones or were their own state, like in that map with South, North, and the randomly (but strategically) small West Germany. It took power away from the future German states.
@@wilhelm__3713 @Avatarreus I. - He was one of the more prominent advocates of rearmament for the sake of opposing socialism. He also cosied up to Franco for his war against the Spanish Republic and was still attempting to flatter Mussolini into avoiding an Anglo-Italian war in 1940. Most damning, he expressed his "admiration" for Hitler in 1935, and claimed that the issue of the nazism (aside from the persecution of Jews) was "not their internal policies" but their "external ambitions".
Reminds me of this one: ua-cam.com/video/c-WO73Dh7rY/v-deo.html "What about Luxembourg?" "France, I thought you had it?" "No, we thought it was Dutch" "England?" "We just knew it was on the continent, and so we didn't give a toss." "Let's just use it for storage."
Dividing Germany North-South would have made a lot more sense than dividing it East-West, culturally speaking. Protestant/Prussian North and Catholic/Austrian/Bavarian South.
It makes more sense linguistically (leaving aside the Hungary annex) than religiously. The north was more Low German, the south more High German and the west more Franconian (like Dutch, Luxembourgish etc). Churchill's scheme might have seen Low German become an official language as distinct from High German.
2:40 That strait line in the northwest of France absolutely terrifies me. It looks like someone was cutting out a map of France and they couldn’t be bothered to do it in a detailed way and just cut a strait line.
If straight lines terrify you, try living near Russian border with Poland. Look it up, it's entirely made up of a straight line as well. :P And I'm, regrettably, from the area.
How were they “so right” about Austria-Hungary being ready to dissolve at any moment. The empire withstood about as long as Germany did during the Great War without imploding on itself. People don’t give Austria-Hungary and Frank Josef enough credit. Not cool bro
What's wrong with people who draw borders using ruler (like the french partition)? They shouldn't ever have access to maps and be sent to murica to enjoy their beloved rectangle states for life
There actually was a radical idea to create a Turkmenistan state in Central Asia, but even Hitler acknowledged that they would never get that far "for now" and the idea was put away.
@David Hecht there was another partition that was supposed to give Greece territory in Anatolia, Italy a colony in turkey, Armenia would be like doubled and Kurdistan was supposed to be made but that never happened and turkey got all that territory
He said it never would've happened because the British government wouldn't have gotten anything from it, and if the British can't profit from a peace deal, they don't give a toss.
To be honest Poland had no historical claim to get east Prussia.East Prussia was mostly inhabited my Germans and Mazurs (Slavic talking people with German identity). There were nearly no Poles before 1945. So there was no justification for the expulsion and the act of annexing it. Greetings
@@argon3547 Yeah, I think you mean Allenstein. But that not an argument, sorry. Expulsion und killings of native population is never and I say never justified. Just inhumane leaderships, ideologies or religions do such things. Greetings
ye and each ethnicity, at least in the Austrian part, had it’s own parliament and it was not necessary to speak German in the entire Austrian Parliament in Vienna. Being a nationalist wasn’t popular in Austria as well. You shouldn’t believe everything victor powers say.
When the Czechs invaded Hungary's upper part, even the majority Slovakian settlements asked for the Hungarian army to help repel the invaders. Unfortunately, Mihály Károlyi was a traitor and disbanded the army. Transylvania's "unification" with Romania was decided by a few dozen nationalist Romanians in Gyulafehérvár (Alba Iulia) while the rest of the population's opinion was ignored. If there was a voting, most of them would've stayed with Hungary because the living conditions in Hungary were (and still are) far better than in Romania. That applies to the rest of the breakaway provinces as well. If there was a voting, most of them would've stayed with Hungary. However, only 1 city had the chance to vote: Sopron. How democratic, right? Sopron had a German majority, yet they still decided to stay with Hungary instead of going to Austria. The victorious Entente was the biggest hypocrite in the world. They carved up an empire on the basis of "national self-determination". They destroyed a multi-national state and created 3 others instead. At the same time, they still held the colonial world and its population in chains for decades afterwards.
sounds much more fun when the "I voted X crowd" crowd or the "you SHOULD vote X" crowd! Maybe ppl would talk about georgraphical and cultural borders..., that could be interesting.
That French part got me thinking. Imagine Leonardo DiCaprio proposing new borders for the Middle East. *It’d still be better then the Sykes-Picot Agreement*
In the molotov ribbentrop pact, the soviets were originally supposed to get much more of poland where as germany would get a larger sphere of influence around lithuania. It's not that big a difference but still quite interesting.
What about the Bakker-Schut Plan? Where the dutch wanted to annex a large part of Germany including the cities Aachen, Cologne, Münster, Oldenburg and Osnabrück
if you have ever been to those territories on the dutch german border you will note the difffence is so small a plan like that could possibly backfire realy hard. not impoosible but it be a realy complicated situation for a divided democratie like the netherlands in post war to deal with.
@@electricangel4488 Well the Dutch wouldn't have to care for the Germans because they wanted to deport most of them from the annexed regions. Only problem to that was that the Allies allready couldn't care for around 15 million deported Germans in Germany.
@@duwang8499 i dont want to write a paragrafe on the variables that make both version of that plan one with mass deporation and one with just annexing land a gaind problem in the post war dutch society. i am just gonne say that it be hard complicated and the dutch political machine at the time was more divided than the united states is at the moment. technicaly yes this can be put into action. practicaly makes more problems then gains.
@@electricangel4488 I never heard that there were plans to keep most of the Germans. From what I heard was that the Dutch basically only allowed those wo helped the Dutch during the war, speak Low German or aply for Dutchification.
Roosevelt's partition plan wasn't that bad, actually. It split the empire back up into less chaotic versions of the kingdoms that were united in the 19th century.
Because the Poles would be pretty mad if then don't get anything *while* loosing land to the Soviets. I mean you are the main victim and don't get anything, how awful is that?
Dᛞ Uᚢ Wᚹ Aᚨ Nᚾ Gᚷ well honestly it would have been better if the soviets didn’t eat half of Poland, and perhaps east Prussia is divided between Lithuania and Poland
If someone is interested why Hungary was included, that was actually Otto von Habsburg convincing Churchill to reunify the old territory under a Danubian Federation. If someone knows German the interview in that was mentioned can be found here: ua-cam.com/video/ZAD92UEOy2I/v-deo.html
5:17 Roosevelt's plan wouldn't have worked with Southern Germany. There's no way Baden an Württemberg would have joined Bavaria. Those three States all are very proud of their own identity, especially Bavaria . When Baden and Württemberg were merged into one federal state (Bundesland), the Badeners voted against it in a referendum, but were outvoted by the Württembergers. To this day there is a movement for a federal state of Baden. Now imagine they would have been asked to join Bavaria, a state which is even further away and is sometimes called a 'nation within the nation' because of its culture which is as distinct as no other state. Even I as a Württemberger would have problems with this. Ok, there are Swabian and Franconian areas in Bavaria, which are culturally close to Württemberg. But the Bavarian identity in particular is too distinct to be merched with 'Saupreißn' like Württemberg and Baden. (Saupreißn: Bavarian term for everyone, who isn't Bavarian; literally 'sow Prussians').
Mal im ernst, dieser Vorschlag sieht aus wie die Karte eines 13 Jährigen der keine Ahnung von Deutschland hat :D Das hätte jeder durchschnittliche Kartenfetischist hier auf YT besser hinbekommen als FDR...
me before watching the video: "oh, interesting alternative history stories. i wonder what the world would be like if these happened" me after watching the video: "those were the uliest partitions imaginable! thank God, they didn't happen!"
@@EmperorTigerstar SMP Earth. It's a 1:8000 scale minecraft map currently populated by around a hundred minecraft players, each claiming land every day, sometimes going to war with each other.
Ya'll know the good old partitions of Poland. But have you heard of the partitions of Poland v0.1? During the Swedish-Polish wars between members of the Vasa dynasty the king of Sweden had a cunning plan to split up the Commonwealth between himself, a prominent polish Nobleman, d. of Transylvania and Brandenburg. It didn't go as planned but Imagine that bordergore.
I imagine Churchill's proposal was made that way because he didn't want either the north or south of Germany to be too weak since they would be the buffer zone between the West and Soviet influenced east.
@@hopin8krzys Well, as if other countries didn't have that effect.... honestly it's sadder if you give poland that land because stalin deport and prosecuted native germans in prussia, pommern and silesia...
@@emc8476 yeah except the poles were treated wrong mostly by the government. the people themselves who lived in pommern and silesia were kinda innocent
The reason why other partitions didn‘t include giving silesia to Poland was simply that it was mostly inhabited by Germans (75%). Then Stalin demanded that the German population should be relocated to West Germany, so Poland could claim Silesia.
@Четник stalin was a horrible person but the expulsion of the Germans from Silesia, East Prussia and Pomerania by Poles was terrible too. So I would say that no border changes after the second WW would havebeen the best option. Greetings
@@tipracitor1139 People don't understand. Imagine if USA was chopped up after they lost the Viet Nam war, Florida given to Cuba, Maine given to Quebec/Canada, California and Texas given to Mexico, and Alaska given to Russia. Just imagine ! This is what Germans had to go through with their regions they've had 1000 years. Imagine UK being chopped up and given away if they lost the Falklands War, London / Essex and Sussex given to France, Wales given to Spain, Scotland given to Norway. Just imagine that!
@@mtlicq Listen, this was no common war, Germany fought a war of extermination againts its eastern ennemies , and lost. You can't expect the victors to be kind after that.
Churchill wanted to include Hungary into South Germany to prevent it from falling into Soviet influence. More Proof that after WW2 all world leaders just got drunk together in a room and started applying video game logic to real life
Speaking of partitions that never happened and partitions of Poland in particular, the Treaty of Radnot signed on the 6th of December 1656 divided Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth between Sweden, Transylvania, Brandenburg, Bohdan Khmelnytsky, and a Lithuanian magnate Bogusław Radziwiłł (the actual signatories were only the first two would-be partitioners).
Why is Poland not getting Silesia and Eastern Pomerania a bad thing? Most of those provinces where majority german before the Soviets decided the Germans had to move... And the Polish from within the new border of the USSR had to move there.. Culturally wise that border between Poland and Germany would have been a lot more logical then the current one is.
FDR's partition if Germany doesn't actually seem that bad, and I think you forgot to remember that the SaarLand briefly become a french protectorate, I'm not sure why, but that's probably what the International Zones would have looked like, a protectorate to a larger western power that would be destined to reunite with Germany after a period of occupatiom
Which partition was the ugliest?
EmperorTigerstar
I don’t know. I haven’t watched the video yet.
idk im like 10 seconds in
Our timeline because Germany lost most of Prussia
Definitely the one proposed by Churchill.
SOVIET UNION 🙁🙁🙁(i know its not ugly:p)
The reason Churchill included Hungary as part of the South German State in his partition, was to prevent it from falling under Soviet influence.
(Plus, it could probably be somewhat justified because of Austria-Hungary)
we should give Austria-Hungary a second go
Why Hungary? Why not Czechia?
@@kameradin8964 That was basically the idea. It would have been funny if a communist revolution still broke out.
@@bateli9733 Because then Stalin would take it?
@@Firmus777 well you know what they say 3rd times the charm so let just get 2nd time over with
I think Churchill wanted to get Hungary out the Soviet sphere.
He did succeed in keeping Denmark out of potential Soviet control by convincing Eisenhower and DeGaulle to allow the #FlensburgGovernment to exist for a half of a month.
Yep, the Allies promised Hungary more times that she would not fall to communism... But that was just a promise
Not just hungary, Czechoslovakia too.
@@TheZinmo it's ok when the communists do it!
MadZin Moo if heydrich was never killed by czech government in exile，Czechs will not suffer from communism rule
Pff, I have over 2000 hours in various Paradox grand strategy games, some border gore isn't going to affect me!
**Sees Churchill's partition of Germany**
...You beat me, Churchill. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go and vomit.
4466h in Eu4 alone: Churchill should be trialed at Nuremberg for that map.
No nation suffered as much as their country borders would have if Churchill succeeded
Winston's like that HOI4 player who creates territorial enclaves and exclaves all over the world just because
Even Without Hungary southern Germany + Austria look awful
I'm bad at organizing borders in Stellaris, and have lost several wars. This has resulted in some pretty ugly borders, but I don't care.
That one hurt my very soul.
Maybe Churchill secretly wanted to bring back Austria-Hungary lmao
Collin Buckman He once said that it was very bad A-H collapsed
It wasn't secret. The allies were extremely sympathetic to the cause of Karl II and his Danubian Confederation
*cries in Serbian*
Kinda... he wanted to create a kind of federal, parliamentary monarchy
based on the Habsburgs in Austria, Hungary and Czechoslovakia, and a
"Southgerman (Business) Confederation" with Bavaria, Württemberg-Hohenzollern and Baden, and this new "Austrian Empire" as protective power.
As a counter-power to the Soviet Union in the Balkans.
Balance of power and such a nonsense...
He should know that uniting Slavs and Germans was not a very good idea
Notice how propose "international" zones in Germany would neatly cover the heavy-industry area of the country. Look no further why.
That and being next to France.
YEP. Coal and iron ore too.
That's kind of the point
@@thedripkingofangmar6778 YEP! Tigerstar is good intentioned not stupid; he just draws lines!
wait. was that a Line In The Sand:!?!
the important industrial zones were either international zones or were their own state, like in that map with South, North, and the randomly (but strategically) small West Germany. It took power away from the future German states.
Aw yeah, alternate partitions. thats the good shit
Make a video on Churchill's South Germany or ur pp smol
Do Churchills proposal for partitioning Germany please
@AlternateHistoryHub Can you not use expletives please..
@@Greenpoloboy3 No. He should keep using them
@@kaderpdi1982 No, he shouldn't. It isn't nice to hear or read
Churchill: Hungary and Austria should be a part of Germany
Hitler: * laughs in Anschluss * A surprise for sure, but a welcome one
Churchill totally would have supported Hitler if Poland and subsequently the UK weren't invaded by him.
In fact before he invaded Poland, HE DID!
@@Tedris4 No? He wanted to stop appeasement and stand up to Germanys territory claims
@@Tedris4 Thats the most inaccurate thing i have heard in the last three months.
@@wilhelm__3713 @Avatarreus I. - He was one of the more prominent advocates of rearmament for the sake of opposing socialism. He also cosied up to Franco for his war against the Spanish Republic and was still attempting to flatter Mussolini into avoiding an Anglo-Italian war in 1940. Most damning, he expressed his "admiration" for Hitler in 1935, and claimed that the issue of the nazism (aside from the persecution of Jews) was "not their internal policies" but their "external ambitions".
@@Tedris4 by that logic Stalin was one of Hitler's biggest hans!
"It's like if celebrities on Twitter proposed partition maps or something, it'd be weird." 3 years later "Oh no."
finally i found a comment like this lmao
lol first thing I thought of was Elon's proposed peace treaty for the war in Ukraine
I think international zones are euphemisms for "I'm too lazy to assign this territory to any specific country"
More like "rich territories we want to control ourselves to squeeze as much money as possible out of it".
^ This guy gets it
@Vitalis Alternatively, territories we will exploit until the locals realize it's a scam and claim it back
Reminds me of this one: ua-cam.com/video/c-WO73Dh7rY/v-deo.html
"What about Luxembourg?"
"France, I thought you had it?"
"No, we thought it was Dutch"
"England?"
"We just knew it was on the continent, and so we didn't give a toss."
"Let's just use it for storage."
@@Vitalis94 Or to deny them to to defeated power.
Do the Hundred Years War: Every Second
milisecond*
Jason Voorhees plank second*
Nanosecond*
Then the video will be 140 years long xD
@@pizzapizza9822 wait... what?
Everyone : *Got partitioned by foreign power*
China : "Hah, what a noob, i partitioned myself dozens of times"
Definition of Mandate of Heaven (try not be corrupted politician)
Germany: exists
Rossevelt: *In the blender you go!*
Puppeting is way better.
A communist
ATLEAST there’s Prussia.
@@rattfish instead he should divide germany to 15th century HRE borders
@@gunarsmiezis9321 no its not
The 38th Parallel, I hope to reunify Korea soon
Kim Jong-un Team best Korea!
West Korea>East Korea
U gay
Sorry supreme leader, I think you meant the world will be unified instead of just Korea
Without your dinasty fall from power, no way
Thinking 'bout the people next time Mr. Un
Dividing Germany North-South would have made a lot more sense than dividing it East-West, culturally speaking. Protestant/Prussian North and Catholic/Austrian/Bavarian South.
kinda.. a West, north, south split would work better as the regions on the rhine kinda don't like bavaria either...
If you don't know anything about Germany this sounds like a good idea.
You are correct!
But the region of Franconia was mostly 50/50, still is btw
It makes more sense linguistically (leaving aside the Hungary annex) than religiously. The north was more Low German, the south more High German and the west more Franconian (like Dutch, Luxembourgish etc). Churchill's scheme might have seen Low German become an official language as distinct from High German.
Winston Churchill's South Germany is worse than Minecraft cursed images
cursed_germany
Hoi4 peace deal
I like Roosevelt Germany lol
Hearing “It’s like if celebrities on Twitter proposed partitions” in 2022 😂
“It’s as if celebrities on twitter proposed partition maps”
Yeah, the world map would be screwed if the kardashians and cardi B made the borders
Can't do worse then the Anglo-Irish Boundary Commission
@@insulam821 she is one of the armenians got genocided in 1915. but god decided that they should respawn in usa.
i can just imagine "cardi B land"
well actually kim kardahsian is one of the smartest celebrity in the world but cardi b i odn't know who that is
@@insulam821 i don't want to know her. plus apparently she's not a singer. she don't deserve this title
Honestly, I wish FDR's partition was the one that was chosen.
Germany (or the German states) would look much more aesthetically pleasing
Yes. Specially after reunification.
3:12 that aged well
WANTED TO SEE IF ANYONE COMMENTED THAT LOL
2:40
That strait line in the northwest of France absolutely terrifies me.
It looks like someone was cutting out a map of France and they couldn’t be bothered to do it in a detailed way and just cut a strait line.
If straight lines terrify you, try living near Russian border with Poland. Look it up, it's entirely made up of a straight line as well. :P And I'm, regrettably, from the area.
@@Vitalis94 do you mean kalinigrad?
@@mikihirai335 Yes.
Meanwhile in Africa and the Middle East...
And the border between the United States and Canada
How were they “so right” about Austria-Hungary being ready to dissolve at any moment. The empire withstood about as long as Germany did during the Great War without imploding on itself. People don’t give Austria-Hungary and Frank Josef enough credit. Not cool bro
Well, A-H survived longer than German Empire
@@littlechemie5425 Because it also existed longer.
It imploded on itself a month before Germany surrendered, so not quite.
What's wrong with people who draw borders using ruler (like the french partition)? They shouldn't ever have access to maps and be sent to murica to enjoy their beloved rectangle states for life
They should be sent to Wyoming!
Good thing theres only 1 border like this in entire europe 😎
@@wojciech9538 Polish - Russian is the only i know about
Nah, send'em to Canada.
ETS: You can get exclusive partition maps on my Patreon!
Me: *Laughs in being a mapmaker myself*
Virgin "mapmaker" vs CHAD *CARTOGRAPHER*
Make vid
@@antonipolski9569?
Other never done partitions:
-Partition of the Ottoman empire after WW1
-Partition of Soviet Union by Germany in WW2
there were no plans for ussr beyond the AA line
There actually was a radical idea to create a Turkmenistan state in Central Asia, but even Hitler acknowledged that they would never get that far "for now" and the idea was put away.
@David Hecht there was another partition that was supposed to give Greece territory in Anatolia, Italy a colony in turkey, Armenia would be like doubled and Kurdistan was supposed to be made but that never happened and turkey got all that territory
@David Hecht also kurds was part of Turkish army during independence..
'Partitions that almost happened.'
Followed up by a partititoning of France you say never would've happened because it was by some engineer dude?
He said it never would've happened because the British government wouldn't have gotten anything from it, and if the British can't profit from a peace deal, they don't give a toss.
@@oneofmanyparadoxfans5447 I'm not sure of the point of your reply.
@@alexeistrife56 I was pointing out that since the British would've gained no land from the partitioning, they would never let it happen.
@@oneofmanyparadoxfans5447 then how did it almost happend ?
@@cosminnegreanu6044 They were likely seriously considering it up until they realized how they stood to gain nothing of real value to them.
Why’s it so important that Poland gets east Prussia?
To be honest Poland had no historical claim to get east Prussia.East Prussia was mostly inhabited my Germans and Mazurs (Slavic talking people with German identity). There were nearly no Poles before 1945. So there was no justification for the expulsion and the act of annexing it. Greetings
@@tipracitor1139 it had something around Olstyn (or what is that name) but it was mostly to make sure Germany won't make WW3
@@argon3547 Yeah, I think you mean Allenstein. But that not an argument, sorry. Expulsion und killings of native population is never and I say never justified. Just inhumane leaderships, ideologies or religions do such things. Greetings
@@argon3547 Actually it was so the USSR could justify stealing polish land by giving Poland some other land.
@@Betrix5060 yes
Austria-Hungary: Who are you?
South German State at 5:20: Im you, but inverted.
The Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn’t as unstable as everyone thinks.
It really wasn't. It was just Entente propaganda.
ً even more what
ً they literally weren’t. You should read Cristopher Clarke - Sleepwalkers
ye and each ethnicity, at least in the Austrian part, had it’s own parliament and it was not necessary to speak German in the entire Austrian Parliament in Vienna. Being a nationalist wasn’t popular in Austria as well.
You shouldn’t believe everything victor powers say.
When the Czechs invaded Hungary's upper part, even the majority Slovakian settlements asked for the Hungarian army to help repel the invaders. Unfortunately, Mihály Károlyi was a traitor and disbanded the army.
Transylvania's "unification" with Romania was decided by a few dozen nationalist Romanians in Gyulafehérvár (Alba Iulia) while the rest of the population's opinion was ignored. If there was a voting, most of them would've stayed with Hungary because the living conditions in Hungary were (and still are) far better than in Romania.
That applies to the rest of the breakaway provinces as well. If there was a voting, most of them would've stayed with Hungary. However, only 1 city had the chance to vote: Sopron. How democratic, right? Sopron had a German majority, yet they still decided to stay with Hungary instead of going to Austria.
The victorious Entente was the biggest hypocrite in the world. They carved up an empire on the basis of "national self-determination". They destroyed a multi-national state and created 3 others instead. At the same time, they still held the colonial world and its population in chains for decades afterwards.
I think Churchill had a muscle spasm while drawing that map and accidentally moved the highlighter way further to the right than he meant to.
2:52 "the straight line is awful
meawhile in the middle east : yea that seems fine
If I ever become a celebrity I am going to suggest a partition map on twitter.
make sure its a ridiculous one that disregards any historical conflict between peoples involved for added debates over it
Agreed. I am debating if I should make it look bad too.
sounds much more fun when the "I voted X crowd" crowd or the "you SHOULD vote X" crowd! Maybe ppl would talk about georgraphical and cultural borders..., that could be interesting.
Not gonna lie, FDR’s Germany would have been really cool to see in the modern day,
studying each one of those country’s paths would be sooooooo cool
Unified Germany better
It definitely wouldnt. He literally planned to induce an artificial famine to kill off the population to make them docile, same with morthangue
Ethan K.
That just makes it even better
@@ethank.6602 that sounds more like what stalin would do. The US prevented them for starving in Berlin
i think the best part would be sto study the german civil war that would happen after that lol
That French part got me thinking. Imagine Leonardo DiCaprio proposing new borders for the Middle East.
*It’d still be better then the Sykes-Picot Agreement*
He'd paint it like one of his french girls.
Fun fact: although his name is in this partition Sykes or Lawrence of Arabia didnt want those borders
"It would be like if celebrities on twitter proposed partition plans, it would be weird." Boy did that age poorly
Explain
@@british35 Elon musk proposed a partition plan between Russia and Ukraine on Twitter. It was very poorly received
"It's like if celebrities posted partition maps on twitter..."
Elon: hold my beer
3:13 damn he predicted elon musk
3:12 this aged like fine wine
In the molotov ribbentrop pact, the soviets were originally supposed to get much more of poland where as germany would get a larger sphere of influence around lithuania.
It's not that big a difference but still quite interesting.
> its like if celebrities proposed partition maps on twitter
yeah, about that...
Partitions?
Poland joins the chat
No, Poland leaves the chat. It doesn't want to have any of it.
Do the Polands join in three or four pieces?
@@RedbadofFrisia more like 2 pieces of Poland with one Lithuania
Tbh more like 5 times. Cuz 3 partitions of PLC, Congress of Vienna and Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
Deutschland, Österreich and Россия has joined the chat.
What about the Bakker-Schut Plan? Where the dutch wanted to annex a large part of Germany including the cities Aachen, Cologne, Münster, Oldenburg and Osnabrück
if you have ever been to those territories on the dutch german border
you will note the difffence is so small a plan like that could possibly backfire realy hard.
not impoosible but it be a realy complicated situation for a divided democratie like the netherlands in post war to deal with.
@@electricangel4488 Well the Dutch wouldn't have to care for the Germans because they wanted to deport most of them from the annexed regions. Only problem to that was that the Allies allready couldn't care for around 15 million deported Germans in Germany.
@@duwang8499 i dont want to write a paragrafe on the variables that make both version of that plan
one with mass deporation and one with just annexing land a gaind problem in the post war dutch society.
i am just gonne say that it be hard complicated and the dutch political machine at the time was more divided than the united states is at the moment.
technicaly yes this can be put into action. practicaly makes more problems then gains.
@@electricangel4488 I never heard that there were plans to keep most of the Germans. From what I heard was that the Dutch basically only allowed those wo helped the Dutch during the war, speak Low German or aply for Dutchification.
@@electricangel4488 Would be glorious if that plan went in effect. The Netherlands, but a little bit bigger
I like Franklin and Churchill's Partition, mostly because Prussia and Austria-Hungary's there
3:14 well that didn't age well
Roosevelt's partition plan wasn't that bad, actually. It split the empire back up into less chaotic versions of the kingdoms that were united in the 19th century.
Never knew about these! Cool video 😃!
Why would it be so horrible if Poland didn't get any territory from Germany after WW2?
Because 9% population gone. Must replace.
Because the Poles would be pretty mad if then don't get anything *while* loosing land to the Soviets. I mean you are the main victim and don't get anything, how awful is that?
Dᛞ Uᚢ Wᚹ Aᚨ Nᚾ Gᚷ well honestly it would have been better if the soviets didn’t eat half of Poland, and perhaps east Prussia is divided between Lithuania and Poland
@@yeetspageet6707
Eastern Poland wasn't Poland, it was Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine.
It wouldn't be horrible if Poland didn't get anything.
If someone is interested why Hungary was included, that was actually Otto von Habsburg convincing Churchill to reunify the old territory under a Danubian Federation. If someone knows German the interview in that was mentioned can be found here: ua-cam.com/video/ZAD92UEOy2I/v-deo.html
3:10
Welp Elon Musk posted a partition plan for Ukraine like 10 days ago soooo
3:16 lol
Idiot Musk indeed
5:17 Roosevelt's plan wouldn't have worked with Southern Germany. There's no way Baden an Württemberg would have joined Bavaria. Those three States all are very proud of their own identity, especially Bavaria . When Baden and Württemberg were merged into one federal state (Bundesland), the Badeners voted against it in a referendum, but were outvoted by the Württembergers. To this day there is a movement for a federal state of Baden. Now imagine they would have been asked to join Bavaria, a state which is even further away and is sometimes called a 'nation within the nation' because of its culture which is as distinct as no other state.
Even I as a Württemberger would have problems with this. Ok, there are Swabian and Franconian areas in Bavaria, which are culturally close to Württemberg. But the Bavarian identity in particular is too distinct to be merched with 'Saupreißn' like Württemberg and Baden. (Saupreißn: Bavarian term for everyone, who isn't Bavarian; literally 'sow Prussians').
Mal im ernst, dieser Vorschlag sieht aus wie die Karte eines 13 Jährigen der keine Ahnung von Deutschland hat :D Das hätte jeder durchschnittliche Kartenfetischist hier auf YT besser hinbekommen als FDR...
I was kinda hopping the video would be at least twenty minutes long. It was amazing please make part two soon.
Nobody:
People Who Propose Partitions: *PUT IT IN A BLENDER!*
me before watching the video: "oh, interesting alternative history stories. i wonder what the world would be like if these happened"
me after watching the video: "those were the uliest partitions imaginable! thank God, they didn't happen!"
Pardon the question, but could you do an SMPEarth: Every Day video at some point?
A *what* now?
@@EmperorTigerstar SMP Earth. It's a 1:8000 scale minecraft map currently populated by around a hundred minecraft players, each claiming land every day, sometimes going to war with each other.
@@themathhatter5290 its 1:3000
i support this
How this would be useful or even funny?
3:12 Okay, which one of you guys sent this video to Elon Musk
@5:15 because those international zones are in the industrial and coal heart , it would hamstring the industrial capabilities
The proposed WW1 partition was insane.
"Winston, go home, you're drunk... again!"
"Also, while in the morning, you will be sober, your partition will still be ugly!"
Honestly, that breakup of Austria-Hungary one seems the most possible out of all of these... Plus, it's the one with the best looking borders
a german istria would make me die of disgust
@@okuramodonn385 I didn't say they were GOOD borders... just the best looking ;)
The Roosevelt plan was the one that got closest to come true, tho. Many people at the time feared that a reunited Germany might become a 4 reich.
@@okuramodonn385 nah its hot
@@scp7802 nah it's pure cancer
"Next video we'll look at partitions outside Europe"
/Israel has entered the chat/
Churchill's partition actually made a lot sense. Bringing Austria Hungary back to prevent Germany from becoming overpowered again.
I got the notification right as I finished watching the video. Good work UA-cam...
"It's like it celebrities on Twitter posted partition maps it'd be weird" my guy predicted Musk's takes on Ukraine, damn
Ya'll know the good old partitions of Poland. But have you heard of the partitions of Poland v0.1? During the Swedish-Polish wars between members of the Vasa dynasty the king of Sweden had a cunning plan to split up the Commonwealth between himself, a prominent polish Nobleman, d. of Transylvania and Brandenburg. It didn't go as planned but Imagine that bordergore.
"it's like if celebrates on twitter purposed partition maps" uh oh
Sees Germany in anything color except black
Me: AHHHHHHH
I love how Churchill's plan also included Subcarpathian Ruthenia :D.
3:14 Elon…
I'd be interested in seeing a video on the French plan to partition Germany after WW1.
3:47 how many partition puns will emperor Tigerstar fit into the partition
of his video.
I’m so glad I found someone who likes history as much as me!
3:12 Elon musk sweats profusely
Churchill didn’t want Austria-Hungary to reunite again.
I was just imagining a rope around that beautiful neck!
5:20 That's something that I expect Mussolini to create! Copying a bit of homework, Churchill?
Here's a deadly drinking game:
Everytime he says "Partition", take a shot.
I'll see you at the ER.
I imagine Churchill's proposal was made that way because he didn't want either the north or south of Germany to be too weak since they would be the buffer zone between the West and Soviet influenced east.
He only put Hungary there so the soviets wouldn’t yoink it.
You think the partition was bad? Morgenthau's economic plan would have resulted in up to 25 million Germans starving, according to J. Edgar Hoover.
Why does he want that Poland gets a lot of territory.
Because USSR took more than half of its eastern territory, so Poland would be destroyed by war and get absolutely nothing in return, even reparations
@@hopin8krzys Well, as if other countries didn't have that effect.... honestly it's sadder if you give poland that land because stalin deport and prosecuted native germans in prussia, pommern and silesia...
@@ice_sea5527 it is not like the polish were treated worse by the germans and later treated poorly by the russians.
@@emc8476 yeah except the poles were treated wrong mostly by the government. the people themselves who lived in pommern and silesia were kinda innocent
East Prussia is a historical German territory but the thing i never understood was WHY DID THEY EXPULSED KILLED MILLIONS OF NATIVE GERMAN
So, Churchill wanted to give parts of Czechoslovakia, Carpathian Ruthenia and Southern Slovakia, to South Germany. Really nice of him xD
0:53 Kaiserreich?
Viguier89 looks similar but it isn’t
Weird partitions that made horrible border gore **Hearts of Iron 4 AI peace conferences has entered the chat**
0:15 corection its the 3 partitions of the polish lithuanisn commonwealth
Churchill obviously got extremely drunk with whiskey while making the map
The reason why other partitions didn‘t include giving silesia to Poland was simply that it was mostly inhabited by Germans (75%). Then Stalin demanded that the German population should be relocated to West Germany, so Poland could claim Silesia.
@Четник stalin was a horrible person but the expulsion of the Germans from Silesia, East Prussia and Pomerania by Poles was terrible too. So I would say that no border changes after the second WW would havebeen the best option. Greetings
@Четник 1/3 of Belarus and 1/4 o Ukraine is more than Silesia, E. Pomerania and pary of Prussia
@@tipracitor1139 People don't understand. Imagine if USA was chopped up after they lost the Viet Nam war, Florida given to Cuba, Maine given to Quebec/Canada, California and Texas given to Mexico, and Alaska given to Russia. Just imagine ! This is what Germans had to go through with their regions they've had 1000 years. Imagine UK being chopped up and given away if they lost the Falklands War, London / Essex and Sussex given to France, Wales given to Spain, Scotland given to Norway. Just imagine that!
@@mtlicq Listen, this was no common war, Germany fought a war of extermination againts its eastern ennemies , and lost. You can't expect the victors to be kind after that.
@@nicolas.p331 go get your vaxeen
Emperortigerstar : Ι have found many weird partitions
Hearts of Iron : Am I a joke to you????
So we could actually bring back Prussia?
We were on the verge of greatness... We were THIS close
Yes, YES!
Then we must unify Germany under a Kaiserreich
Herdan naa it’s gotta be the Kingdom of Prussia
Herdan Kingdom of Prussia, as in borders from the 1700s, and no colonies or genocide as that would not stand today.
@@Hugh_Morris They didn't have any colonies though...
Churchill wanted to include Hungary into South Germany to prevent it from falling into Soviet influence. More Proof that after WW2 all world leaders just got drunk together in a room and started applying video game logic to real life
@The Nova renaissance Doubt it. Not after what the commies did in 1919.
churchills partition of germany made me wanna commit esc r enter.
Speaking of partitions that never happened and partitions of Poland in particular, the Treaty of Radnot signed on the 6th of December 1656 divided Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth between Sweden, Transylvania, Brandenburg, Bohdan Khmelnytsky, and a Lithuanian magnate Bogusław Radziwiłł (the actual signatories were only the first two would-be partitioners).
What about the alleged Bohemian-Teutonic partitions some centuries prior?
@@Vitalis94 Sure, that too. Although I would argue that my example is crazier. :)
Why did you not include the map form "Germany Must Perish"?
Why is Poland not getting Silesia and Eastern Pomerania a bad thing? Most of those provinces where majority german before the Soviets decided the Germans had to move... And the Polish from within the new border of the USSR had to move there.. Culturally wise that border between Poland and Germany would have been a lot more logical then the current one is.
Because they get literally no compensation, and btw parts of east prussia and silesia were actually mostly Polish
Damn imagine a Danish Kim Jong Un
FDR's partition if Germany doesn't actually seem that bad, and I think you forgot to remember that the SaarLand briefly become a french protectorate, I'm not sure why, but that's probably what the International Zones would have looked like, a protectorate to a larger western power that would be destined to reunite with Germany after a period of occupatiom
Was hoping to see some alternate Axis victory partitions on here but I understand that would’ve probably opened up a big ol can of worms
I hope this becomes a series!
I actually liked Rosevelts except for the international zones
German Reich was partitioned but the weirdest thing is Berlin and Vienna are split into Allies and Soviets
3:13 - Well I mean, Jake Paul and Logan Paul could partition the USA.
3:30 Was waiting for that line.