This dude is absolutely killing it. Every day I wake up in the UK I have a new vid to watch on the way to work. I was debating which of these shoes to get for the London Marathon. Vaporfly and alphafly sold out as soon as they came out on sale! Big up yourself
Thanks for the comparison. I currently have both the Pro and Speed 3. I definitely plan on getting the Pro 4 later this year... there are some great colorways! My favorite so far is the black/Vizired- the red midsole/outsole is absolutely 🌶🌶🌶
Although I completely agree that functionally the Pro 4 trumps the Speed 4 in seemingly every possible way (maybe not for the daily trainer case, but I'd say the Speed 3 takes the cake there anyway), something to factor in as well is durability. I don't have the 4's, but I do run in both the Pro 3 and the Speed 3. After 200 km in the Pro 3, I started bursting through the upper. The Speed 3 however is close to 700 km and doesn't have any signs of upper wear at all... Generally speaking I think in most cases race shoes outperform training shoes for speedy runs (it's what they're build for: uncompromising performance), but their more training oriented counterparts are designed to last longer and withstand the training miles. Tangent: I think there's definitely something to say for training in shoes that mimic their racing counterparts, but don't offer exactly the same performance. As long as you can get in the same training stimulus and get the extra performance benefit of the racing shoe on race day, I consider that a win!
@@liljfunk21 No, the Speed 3 was on sale before the Speed 4 came out. After trying the Speed 4, I preferred the Speed 3 by a lot and so grabbed another and sent back the Speed 4 because I didn’t enjoy it.
No one has ever mentioned the heel hanging off before. That's the reason I got rid if my pro 3 for the marathon and switched to the adidas adios pro 3. No issues with my speed 4 though, love them!
I could feel the heel hanging off when I tried on a brand new pair of Pro 3 in the shop. Thought the pair was bad and went to another shop. Same thing. Concluded that my feet are strange, until I saw this video and your comment. Have not tried Pro 4 on yet.
I've been running in the pro 4 for a few weeks now. I really like it for speed work where I am landing mid foot. When I slow down and land on my heels it feels harsh to me. It feels like the carbon plate is just below the sockliner at the heel. I wish there was a bit more cushion in the heel before the plate
I did my first solo 1/2 marathon in the Deviate Nitro 2 and I agree that I'd have liked a little more protection under foot. Also, I'm trying to remind myself to do most of my miles easy as I try to increase weekly mileage a little.
Speed 3 is my favorite daily shoe right now. I’m slow af but it handles all paces super well. Agree it’s not the best long run show, especially for someone my size at 6’4” 210lbs haha
just got the pro 4's, I love how rigid the plate is and the cushion they have while maintaining stability. I wish they had a bit more arch support but thats nothing some insoles cant fix.
I agree that the Speed 4 may not be for everyone. What I've noticed about it is that it comes alive if you run at a harder effort/faster pace, but it's rather clunky and awkward at slower/easier paces. It also just feels really firm at those slower paces when compared to the Speed 3s which I felt you could throw everything at. Also, it's nice to hear that the Pro 4s are better in the rain now. I ran a full in the Pro 3s and they were horrible in the rain - slippery and collected water to the point where they felt like bricks.
I tried the speed 4 on in the store and ran a bit in it in the store. It felt like a more cushion speed 3 to me and so from that I liked it. I have not tried the pro 4. Just ran a half yesterday in the pro 3.I really love the pro 3 at least for the half distance. Thinking as I train for a full I need something softer than the pro 3 as I’m going to be running for 5 hours and need something to feel good at hour 5. Have a lot of time to decide so always appreciate your input.
@@supwell so few reviews on the diadora gara. I’d love to see some comparison on the diadora gara to the cielo x1, pro 3, pro 4 , TYR Valkyrie, The new Paris shoes and the 1080 v13. all of these seem like good bouncy shoes but how they relate to each other isnt clear to me.
Right now I'd pick the pro 3 since it's felt firmer and faster. So far pro 4 has felt more relaxed but I want to do some more fast workouts in it to see how it responds with long sets at half marathon pace or faster
For my long slow runs I've been choosing the nb elite v4 instead of the Pro 4 because I find the heel so much softer. For someone who only runs 35-40 miles a week do you see a problem of doing all miles is a carbon plated shoe? Can you share your thoughts on this?
Well ppl. have been blaming plated shoes for foot issues but evidence does not support any problems really. I am in a quite similar situation as u, and would say, I´m also propably better off using mostly super shoes, because my legs feel great after runs. Yes they say some muscles get lazy in them. I try to do some slow runs in firmer, non plated shoes.
Speed 4s are disappointing. Clunky is the right word. I actually have more bounce in my step wearing the 1080s and way more comfortable. I have a hard time picking up the pace in the Speeds.
Do you think the pro 4 is as good as the pro 3? I loved the speed roll 3 and pro 3. Probably went through 8 pairs combined. I am not digging the speed 4s. I get tired in them fast. Cheers
The narrow heel on the pro4 is definitely an annoying quirk. The speed 4 is too low volume for me, I replaced the foam insole with a much thinner insole. Also made the shoe a little more connected with the ground and actually a better experience. Still have to put some km on the Boston 12 but feels great so far.
Ha Ha unbelievable trains 100 miles a week plus is new dad has a full time job. Turns out content like a high speed production line.......and seems to have a happy wife 😅
After racing 2 5ks last weekend in the NB elite V2 and the hoka rocket x2, I realized how much NB lost by "upgrading" their shoes every year..the Saucony endorphin pro4 is a good replacement for NB elite V2..it's quite odd cos the Saucony endorphin pro3 sucked..seems like every year is like an Easter egg hunt to find which shoes work for each of us..I have ZERO brand loyalty for that exact reason..
The Speed 4 has a significant posterior flare in the midsole whereas the Speed 3 hardly has any sole flare. Did you notice a difference between the Speed 3 and 4 in footstrike/landing? Did you notice the heel flare when you ran?
Speed 4 has a bit wider heel and felt more stable when standing, but I didn't have any stability issues with either. The heel of the pro 4 is a little bit of an odd fit though. If you need more stability the TYR Valkyrie elite racing shoe is a good option that has a similar feel to the endorphin pro
I prefer Boston 12 - much more versatile and can handle any workout I'd do in the Takumi Sen. The Takumi Sen is lighter and for shorter distance and Boston 12 is designed for long distance runnign, but it's performed great for me for short and fast workouts
Tried the Boston 12 while it felt good I had to return it, it kept causing me sharp pain in the bottom of my foot that I never felt with the Speed 2's which sucked cuz the B12's felt good for me but the pain was enough to make me return it despite only wearing it once a week. So once my Speed 2's die I'm going back to the drawing board to find another plated training shoe.
Dang sorry to hear that! I'm testing the TYR Valkyrie speedworks soon which looks like a strong contender in the plated training space - also designed to have wider toebox/more comfortable fit
Just got a pair of pro 4 to rotate with a pair of glycerin max which will be used for long easy/recovery runs. Do you think the pro 4 could hold up for training in for general tempo and maintenance runs? I tried the speed 4 and just did like them.
Yes definitely - it's a durable platform that will handle training miles well. I was able to get 200+ training miles out of my pro 3 and they're still kicking
@@supwell nice thanks for that! I just find it disheartening how 90% of reviews are saying it's a race day shoe even though it's extremely stable comfortable and a good amount of cushion... Would be a shame to waste all that by just saving it for race day!
Endorphin pro 4 - the plate helps the foam hold up better for longer distances. It's also overall more comfortable and forgiving for me with a better fitting upper
If Saucony literally put 1 inch of HG foam in the heel I think I may be done with this brand lol. especially when they claim “top layer HG”. That’s bushleague.
According to science, if they put springs inside it will return energy. But if plates give you the bounce sensation, will you say it's just a fake sensory illusion and ignore it? Having invested in these expensive plated shoes, are you lying to yourself that you are experiencing the bouncing sensation with each step? In the end, what you experience out of plated shoes is what really matters, not what science, Doctor of Running's or anyone else say. If you felt no pop or bounce at all, you are also correct, as body weight has an impact on the plates. You alone are the best judge to determine whether plated shoes work for you or not, it's all a personal experience.
Glad I’m not alone in thinking the Speed 4 is disappointing. It feels like a cheap shoe that does nothing imo. Especially when Speed 3 was my favourite shoe last year. I sent them back. Just put a hole in my Pro 3s so I’ve decided to try some Pro 4s - so quite optimistic now after watching this 😂
This dude is absolutely killing it. Every day I wake up in the UK I have a new vid to watch on the way to work. I was debating which of these shoes to get for the London Marathon. Vaporfly and alphafly sold out as soon as they came out on sale! Big up yourself
Thanks for the comparison. I currently have both the Pro and Speed 3. I definitely plan on getting the Pro 4 later this year... there are some great colorways! My favorite so far is the black/Vizired- the red midsole/outsole is absolutely 🌶🌶🌶
The only shoe series out of the brand Saucony I ran with is the Triumph 20 and I collected over 900 k over one year 🔥👌
I start my day with your videos! Thank so much for putting out daily content. I really appreciate it.
💪🏽 that's awesome! btw can confirm TYR speedworks coming this week or early next 🤫
@@supwellnice!
Although I completely agree that functionally the Pro 4 trumps the Speed 4 in seemingly every possible way (maybe not for the daily trainer case, but I'd say the Speed 3 takes the cake there anyway), something to factor in as well is durability. I don't have the 4's, but I do run in both the Pro 3 and the Speed 3. After 200 km in the Pro 3, I started bursting through the upper. The Speed 3 however is close to 700 km and doesn't have any signs of upper wear at all... Generally speaking I think in most cases race shoes outperform training shoes for speedy runs (it's what they're build for: uncompromising performance), but their more training oriented counterparts are designed to last longer and withstand the training miles.
Tangent: I think there's definitely something to say for training in shoes that mimic their racing counterparts, but don't offer exactly the same performance. As long as you can get in the same training stimulus and get the extra performance benefit of the racing shoe on race day, I consider that a win!
Ran my first half marathon this weekend in the endorphin speed four and felt absolutely fine
5 foot 195 pounds 1:44
Congrats on your first half! 💪🏽 that's awesome
first time the plastic / carbon fiber plate differences have been explained so clear. Thanks!
I tried the Speed 4 and quickly sent it back and bought another Speed 3 on sale. Just a more enjoyable and versatile shoe for me.
Did you send the speed 4 back because the speed 3 was on sale ?
@@liljfunk21 No, the Speed 3 was on sale before the Speed 4 came out. After trying the Speed 4, I preferred the Speed 3 by a lot and so grabbed another and sent back the Speed 4 because I didn’t enjoy it.
No one has ever mentioned the heel hanging off before. That's the reason I got rid if my pro 3 for the marathon and switched to the adidas adios pro 3. No issues with my speed 4 though, love them!
I could feel the heel hanging off when I tried on a brand new pair of Pro 3 in the shop. Thought the pair was bad and went to another shop. Same thing. Concluded that my feet are strange, until I saw this video and your comment. Have not tried Pro 4 on yet.
I've been running in the pro 4 for a few weeks now. I really like it for speed work where I am landing mid foot. When I slow down and land on my heels it feels harsh to me. It feels like the carbon plate is just below the sockliner at the heel. I wish there was a bit more cushion in the heel before the plate
I did my first solo 1/2 marathon in the Deviate Nitro 2 and I agree that I'd have liked a little more protection under foot. Also, I'm trying to remind myself to do most of my miles easy as I try to increase weekly mileage a little.
Love it 💪🏽
Speed 3 is my favorite daily shoe right now. I’m slow af but it handles all paces super well. Agree it’s not the best long run show, especially for someone my size at 6’4” 210lbs haha
just got the pro 4's, I love how rigid the plate is and the cushion they have while maintaining stability. I wish they had a bit more arch support but thats nothing some insoles cant fix.
I agree that the Speed 4 may not be for everyone. What I've noticed about it is that it comes alive if you run at a harder effort/faster pace, but it's rather clunky and awkward at slower/easier paces. It also just feels really firm at those slower paces when compared to the Speed 3s which I felt you could throw everything at. Also, it's nice to hear that the Pro 4s are better in the rain now. I ran a full in the Pro 3s and they were horrible in the rain - slippery and collected water to the point where they felt like bricks.
I tried the speed 4 on in the store and ran a bit in it in the store. It felt like a more cushion speed 3 to me and so from that I liked it. I have not tried the pro 4. Just ran a half yesterday in the pro 3.I really love the pro 3 at least for the half distance. Thinking as I train for a full I need something softer than the pro 3 as I’m going to be running for 5 hours and need something to feel good at hour 5. Have a lot of time to decide so always appreciate your input.
Pro 4 is a touch softer than pro 3 so would be a good choice. Or if you really want to damage your wallet the Diadora Gara 😂
@@supwell so few reviews on the diadora gara. I’d love to see some comparison on the diadora gara to the cielo x1, pro 3, pro 4 , TYR Valkyrie, The new Paris shoes and the 1080 v13. all of these seem like good bouncy shoes but how they relate to each other isnt clear to me.
If you had a pair of Saucony Pro 3 and Pro 4 both brand new, which pair would you pick to race a HM
Right now I'd pick the pro 3 since it's felt firmer and faster. So far pro 4 has felt more relaxed but I want to do some more fast workouts in it to see how it responds with long sets at half marathon pace or faster
Good comparison! Will you be getting the TYR SpeedWorks?
just got confirmation it's in the mail on the way here! 💪🏽🤫
Going to pair the Pro with the Ride 16 - feel like they are related and will complement each other nicely.
For my long slow runs I've been choosing the nb elite v4 instead of the Pro 4 because I find the heel so much softer. For someone who only runs 35-40 miles a week do you see a problem of doing all miles is a carbon plated shoe? Can you share your thoughts on this?
Well ppl. have been blaming plated shoes for foot issues but evidence does not support any problems really. I am in a quite similar situation as u, and would say, I´m also propably better off using mostly super shoes, because my legs feel great after runs. Yes they say some muscles get lazy in them. I try to do some slow runs in firmer, non plated shoes.
Speed 4s are disappointing. Clunky is the right word. I actually have more bounce in my step wearing the 1080s and way more comfortable. I have a hard time picking up the pace in the Speeds.
Do you think the pro 4 is as good as the pro 3? I loved the speed roll 3 and pro 3. Probably went through 8 pairs combined. I am not digging the speed 4s. I get tired in them fast.
Cheers
The narrow heel on the pro4 is definitely an annoying quirk. The speed 4 is too low volume for me, I replaced the foam insole with a much thinner insole. Also made the shoe a little more connected with the ground and actually a better experience. Still have to put some km on the Boston 12 but feels great so far.
Is the pro 4 much softer? I find the speed 4 quite firm still
WOW prolific is an understatement for this guy😂
Ha Ha unbelievable trains 100 miles a week plus is new dad has a full time job. Turns out content like a high speed production line.......and seems to have a happy wife 😅
After racing 2 5ks last weekend in the NB elite V2 and the hoka rocket x2, I realized how much NB lost by "upgrading" their shoes every year..the Saucony endorphin pro4 is a good replacement for NB elite V2..it's quite odd cos the Saucony endorphin pro3 sucked..seems like every year is like an Easter egg hunt to find which shoes work for each of us..I have ZERO brand loyalty for that exact reason..
The Speed 4 has a significant posterior flare in the midsole whereas the Speed 3 hardly has any sole flare. Did you notice a difference between the Speed 3 and 4 in footstrike/landing? Did you notice the heel flare when you ran?
Yeah definitely - the 3 felt much smoother to me. That chunky heel on the 4 makes it feel clunky and awkward at some paces for me
Speed 4 or pro 4 is more stable shoe?
Speed 4 has a bit wider heel and felt more stable when standing, but I didn't have any stability issues with either. The heel of the pro 4 is a little bit of an odd fit though. If you need more stability the TYR Valkyrie elite racing shoe is a good option that has a similar feel to the endorphin pro
what do you think of adidas boston 12 vs takumi sen 10 (purpose & review)
I prefer Boston 12 - much more versatile and can handle any workout I'd do in the Takumi Sen. The Takumi Sen is lighter and for shorter distance and Boston 12 is designed for long distance runnign, but it's performed great for me for short and fast workouts
@@supwell thanks so much! respect for actually responding
Tried the Boston 12 while it felt good I had to return it, it kept causing me sharp pain in the bottom of my foot that I never felt with the Speed 2's which sucked cuz the B12's felt good for me but the pain was enough to make me return it despite only wearing it once a week. So once my Speed 2's die I'm going back to the drawing board to find another plated training shoe.
Dang sorry to hear that! I'm testing the TYR Valkyrie speedworks soon which looks like a strong contender in the plated training space - also designed to have wider toebox/more comfortable fit
I'll see if I can't check it out!@@supwell
Just got a pair of pro 4 to rotate with a pair of glycerin max which will be used for long easy/recovery runs. Do you think the pro 4 could hold up for training in for general tempo and maintenance runs?
I tried the speed 4 and just did like them.
Yes definitely - it's a durable platform that will handle training miles well. I was able to get 200+ training miles out of my pro 3 and they're still kicking
@@supwell nice thanks for that! I just find it disheartening how 90% of reviews are saying it's a race day shoe even though it's extremely stable comfortable and a good amount of cushion... Would be a shame to waste all that by just saving it for race day!
I prefer the Endorphin Pro over the Speed for longer runs.
I should watch your video earlier. I bought the Speed 4 (also Speed 1 to 3 in the past) and quite disappointed. I am going to get a Pro 4 now.
Which one is better to run for marathon? (pace 6-7)
Endorphin pro 4 - the plate helps the foam hold up better for longer distances. It's also overall more comfortable and forgiving for me with a better fitting upper
If Saucony literally put 1 inch of HG foam in the heel I think I may be done with this brand lol.
especially when they claim “top layer HG”. That’s bushleague.
👍
Plates do not return energy. That’s a common misconception. See Doctor of Running’s community post from two days ago
According to science, if they put springs inside it will return energy. But if plates give you the bounce sensation, will you say it's just a fake sensory illusion and ignore it? Having invested in these expensive plated shoes, are you lying to yourself that you are experiencing the bouncing sensation with each step? In the end, what you experience out of plated shoes is what really matters, not what science, Doctor of Running's or anyone else say. If you felt no pop or bounce at all, you are also correct, as body weight has an impact on the plates. You alone are the best judge to determine whether plated shoes work for you or not, it's all a personal experience.
@@OmniZen8118 The foam, not the plate, provides the energy return. The plate stabilizes the platform and directs the energy forward.
Glad I’m not alone in thinking the Speed 4 is disappointing. It feels like a cheap shoe that does nothing imo. Especially when Speed 3 was my favourite shoe last year. I sent them back.
Just put a hole in my Pro 3s so I’ve decided to try some Pro 4s - so quite optimistic now after watching this 😂