HSE: Dave Strider Pt. 2 - Heroes & Coolguys
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- Опубліковано 18 гру 2020
- / optimisticduelist
www.keep-rising.org
Today we talk about Dave Strider and the dual images of Cool Guy and Hero. Feat. Dante from Devil May Cry, also known as the dreamiest boy. Credit for pointing out the links between Dave and Tidus really goes to Griever, the writer for Eridan's Pesterquest route. He's really cool, but unfortunately it seems like the essay he originally wrote about it is gone, so I can't link it :(
This video's a partial adaptation of my much longer written post on Dave and Karkat, Hephaestian Shonen; Abraxian Tsundere. You can check that out here:
/ hephaestian-shonen-abr...
Hope you all enjoy, and keep rising! - Ігри
I may be a straight cis male, but Dave's journey was still special to me, because screw that "Macho" mentality of not caring about anything. I care a lot and I am glad I stopped repressing that part of myself because "Man"
Yeah i agree but, he didnt need to be the weirdest person ever :/
@@fatihcore he’s totally weird but it’s charming
InstaBlaster.
ah yes. The one character who got a complete arc in homestuck
i will not stand for this equius erasure
"DAVE: rose we dont have fuckin 'arcs' we are just human beings"
no dawg, you're literally a character in a webcomic... stop being silly Dave
@@mina829ag
Dave stop not being aware of the fourth wall all of the best kids are doing it
Dave in the epilogues: O B A M A
I just noticed the "featuring Dante" sticker on the thumbnail, that's hilarious.
Dave may cry
I remember one of the reasons Dave broke up with TZ is cause she was having a kismesitude with Gamzee and Dave just straight up says he’s a human and he doesn’t really get alternias relationship and culture stuf so it just didn’t work out which I think really highlights what you were talking about when it comes to Dave and TZ’s relationship
HEY. Heracles may have killed his wife and child, but he was driven mad by Hera. who then proceeded to direct him towards his labours. basically the legend of Heracles could also be called "Hera is the worst step-mom in the world". Point is Heracles may have killed, like alot of people. but his wife and child dont count.
Nice parallel between Bro and Lil Cal and Heracles and Hera
I literally go crazy whenever u make a new video and the fact that its about dave just makes it even better :]
FINALLY my favorite episode in the series continues!! Been too long, Dave is so interesting to me because he is the most like Hussie, at least according to him
@próprioDemiurgo Nah, it's Dave.
@próprioDemiurgo isn’t the voice of homestuck the most like dirk?
@@poky4669 It's Dirk. Dave is the most like Hussie in early Homestuck, but then Dirk was introduced, with horse obsession, more intellectual (yet still intentionally shitty) style and actual topic of demiurgy and responsibility of power.
I thought this day would never come
I liked the bit about Caliborn being considered a hero, that was fun
It’s interesting that both notions of masculine heroism have some degree of apathy to them: achieving goals while disregarding the pain endured by others and themselves. What separates the cool guy archetype from the champions of Greco-Roman legend is that there isn’t as many challenges for them to face beyond conflict with like-minded people. To me, it frames the relative peace of the developing world as a reward for all the pain endured by those old champions, posthumously given to their successors. I’m not sure how merited this interpretation is, but it feels worth sharing.
I am now cant unsee Dave as Dante or Dirk as Vergil. Also I am now picturing Alpha Timeline Dave as DMC5 Dante
I had just recently shown my girlfriend DMC's stories (3 to 5) and all the while got into classpecting and thinking about what the Sparda twins might be, and was actually really wondering what you might think they were!
Personally, I came to thinking both twins are Blood. Their familial bonds, their demonic blood ties, are everything to them. It's how they acted on it, how they felt about it, that made me decide their class. And actually, it's basically the Strider bros!
Vergil Sparda, in my eyes, is a Prince of Blood. He is obsessed with gaining power, to the point of self destruction at times. He claims through subtle hints that it's to never have to lose anyone again, to protect what he loves most, but he constantly tests and attempts to destroy the bond with Dante he barely has as well as his own humanity within him. He practically defines himself by his rivalry, first one of deadly violence but eventually one of genuine brotherly appreciation after he forms a new bond in place of what was destroyed. Plus, like most Princes, he starts out already with a god-level weapon that he never drops for anything else, only adding to his arsenal with Beowulf but ultimately never straying from his birthrite.
On the contrary to all this, I would define Dante Sparda as a Knight of Blood. Initially it was tough to really find the right class, since I saw Dante's character as one that isn't particularly "heroic" on purpose. At least on the surface, since he doesn't show much resentment for the lose of human life during the Temen-Ni-Gru incident (DMC3) and initially doenn't care about Fortuna (DMC4) until Trish essentially forced his interference. But related media like the prequel novel before 3 and anime of all things shows a side of him that cares for everyone around him. Even demons, if they show humanity. He's willing to serve anyone he cares for, he thinks is worth caring for, because he wholly embraces the idea of being human over a devil. And in serving his friends and chosen family, he tries to take on their burdens, fighting Lady to try and steal the burden of killing her father from her, and am doing the same to Nero and even refusing to tell him the truth of his birth until again, he was forced to by the situation. He was doing something Knights seem to always do, overcompensate for their aspect.
Speaking of Nero... I think unlike the Sparda Twins, Nero is Rage-Bound. He sees through the familiar rivalry bullshit of Dante and Vergil and strives to make them make up, even by force of needed. He sees through the cultish ideals of his town's Sparda-worshiping religion, initially showing clear disinterest but then outright tearing down the current establishment of it in an effort to save those he cares about. Honestly, he could be a Knight, serving others with his Rage, or even (dare I put the images in my head) a Page or Bard. It's hard to really say for sure, but my running feeling is Knight of Rage.
Any other DMC fans want to give their take on the twins and their kin? I wanna see what ya'll think~
Once again, you continue to make Homestuck awesome
I always knew Dave was a Wacky Woohoo Pizza Guy
What would Caliborn be like if he was never allowed to obtain the power necessary to do what he does throughout Homestuck? Imagine internalizing this stuff while while posing little threat. Would he just be an incel?
That's the thing about Homestuck as a story and Paradox Space as a setting - everything already influenced itself. And especially Caliborn, the one who (subconsciously) manipulates time the most. Caliborn is who is because he made himself so, retroactively. (In some way, Dirk and Dave are what they are because Caliborn influenced them...giving them the traits which are the reason he is obsessed with them so much).
You sound so fast forwarded at the beginning lol
It honestly seems like your class has more to do with your actual personality and the intricate details of it, meaning that I am 100% a Knight because that’s the class that I best fit into
I just have to figure out what my aspect is
Currently my best idea is that I’m a Knight of Rage, however I do have Hope traits and my aspect has fluctuated over the years, I just hope I can figure this out so my brain might calm the fuck down
The extended zodiac test is a pretty neat way of finding out your moon and aspect, and it's official, if you haven't tried it yet, you definetly should to figure out your aspect.
Just remember that the answer may not fit what you think, and that's alright if you want to keep your desired aspect.
Why you gotta do my man Heracles like that? He only killed his wife and kids because Hera drove him mad. Wasn't his fault
That’s what I’m saying
Well depends, did he decide to do the trials out of pure guilt of what he did, or was he forced to do the trials without considering his moral standing
While it may have not been his fault his reaction to his actions are more important to his morality
I HAVE BEEN FIXATED. ON HOMESTUCKS MORALITY. FUR SO LONG. AND FINALLY, *FINALLY* I GET TO SEE A VIDEO ON IT. I AM SO FUCKING HAPPY RN, YOU HAVE NO IDEA.
Beautiful video. Keep looking forward for your content. I have just finished the Full-Spectrum Therapy so that I could watch the video that you've made about it. IT WAS WORTH EVERY SECOND THAT I SPENT READING IT!!! Looking forward to the continuation of this series. Thank yoh for all of this different content you just open up new doors for us to get INSPIRED.
PS: Have you ever heard about "Night In The Woods"? It is a really cool game. The story might be interesting enough for you to make a video for it.
hello lgbtq+ community
Hello
Hello to you too
Wuzzup
You clocked us
sup
Karkat: The Impotent Weenie
OD once more I have to commend you for your meticulous analysis and stunning work in general. Normally I would simply hang back and fondly admire the work since I wouldn't really have any input to give, but as a Devil May Cry fan I cannot help but comment.
The outlining you gave for Dante being the Hedonistic "Cool Guy" that Dave aspires to be... I don't know just how knowledgable you are on the DMC franchise beyond the surface level but largely on point summation you gave on Dante and Vergil's character, and I can understand if you didn't address this due to time constraints or just not knowing, but funnily enough Dante is an even better parallel to Dave than you might realize due to the simple fact that his (as the fans call it) Wacky Woohoo Pizza Man attitude of hedonism and laughing off injuries/not taking anything seriously is actually a mask.
An emotional mask to hide how deeply emotinally scarred he is, much like Dave. Though his upbringing is similarly tragic, the circumstances are much different, far less subtle, and affected his brother arguably far more.
Dante and Vergil's father, the Demon Swordsman known as the Legendary Dark Knight Sparda, rebelled against his leader and ruler the Demon King Mundus 2000 years prior to the story because he "woke up to Justice" and grew fond of humanity, taking pity upon their suffering caused by Mundus' invasion of the mortal world. Sparda overthrew his master and sealed him in Hell, and afterward did a lot of cool stuff that we'll probably never know for sure about. About 2000 years later he fell in love with a human woman named Eva and together they had a pair of twin sons, Dante and Vergil, who despite what you may expect, expanded universe material implies that their childhood was fairly normal...
Right up until age 8, when Mundus's minions assaulted their home and brought their peaceful life crashing down. No one knows what happened to Sparda, but it's very possible he was killed in the attack because he's never mentioned in the games unless its in past tense as a larger than life "mythic" figure. ...Someone you might even compare to the Trolls' ancestors in Homestuck.
(Cont'd)
But regardless, since Sparda leaves the picture here the spotlight falls to his wife and sons. As we've been shown in a flashback in DMCV and also the tie-in manga, when the house was under attack Eva went to Dante first due to Dante being closer to her as Vergil was outside playing. Eva hid Dante in a closet and gave him instructions to run away and make a new life for himself in the event that she didn't make it back when she went to look for Vergil. As we see from Dante's POV, she searched for Vergil and screamed out his name before being killed offscreen by demons. Vergil was left to fend for himself, and in his fear and desperation for survival he activated his Devil Trigger, which allowed him to stand against the demons.
Thinking that his mother had abandoned him for Dante, Vergil struck out on his own, forever scarred by his own helplessness and loss. In his trauma Vergil rejected his human side, embracing the Demonic half of his heritage and his ever famous mantra of "Might Controls Everything. Without It You Cannot Protect Anything, Let Alone Yourself." This Survival of the fittest mindset and his endless quest for greater power is a horrible coping mechanism for his trauma and loneliness, and it's his Motivation for fighting both in general and against Dante specifically, as a twisted interpretation of his Father Sparda's legacy of the extremely powerful Dark Knight who feared nothing because he had the power to overcome any foe. It may be a stretch I'll admit, but you could draw another parallel between Vergil and Dirk by hypothesizing that Vergil's Self-loathing and rejection of his own Humanity is comparable to Dirk's Self-loathing due to his own (perceived) moral lacking. Vergil is what Dirk could be if Dirk was even half as awful as he believed himself to be.
Dante meanwhile similarly struck out on his own. Admittedly my understanding of this part of Dante's life is a little rusty, but I believe the gist of it is that Dante ended up a lot more socially well adjusted than his brother due to the connections he made in his youth, like Nico's grandmother Nell Goldstein, the gunsmith who he got his iconic pistols Ebony & Ivory from. Nevertheless, Dante was traumatized by his loss in his own way, adopting a hedonistic outlook on life to fill the void in his soul, becoming a Devil Hunter as an act of vengeance for the loss of his family (namely his mother), while simultaneously coming to hate his father due to Sparda being the reason for his loss and the notion of having to clean up his father's messes due to multiple villains either wanting revenge on Sparda by Proxy (Mundus) or Coveting Sparda's power and wanting it for their own (Arkham, Sanctus, and ESPECIALLY Vergil).
This leads us to DMC3, where the rebellious late teenage Dante opens his Devil Hunting business and is lured by Vergil to the Tower of Temen-Ni-Gru, a massive demonic architecture that serves as part of a seal to the gates of Hell and a third of Sparda's power that Vergil has summoned for the purposes of claiming what he perceives to be his birthright that is the Force Edge Blade (the aforementioned piece of Sparda's power). Along the way, Dante grows from rebellious punk who wants nothing to do with cleaning up his family's messes beyond fighting with his brother some more, to empathizing with Lady and her conflicted feelings about having to kill her father because he's the one who started this whole mess to begin with. In the process, Dante, Vergil, and the human devil hunter Lady are all manipulated by Arkham to finish opening the gates so that Arkham ends up stealing the blade first and mutates into a huge blob monster that Dante and Vergil are forced to team up to take down. But due to a key item for the unsealing ritual being the two halves of their mothers' Amulet that the Brothers kept with them, Dante and Vergil clash once more at the very end of the game in one of the most legendarily difficult boss fights in gaming history. In the end, Dante gains the Force Edge, but loses half of the Amulet along with his brother, who falls into Hell upon his defeat and then proceeds to challenge Mundus.
He fails.
(cont'd)
Dante comes out of the experience shaken, but matured somewhat, leading to DMC1 where he's lured by a woman who looks suspiciously identical to his mother Eva to Mallet Island where Mundus is said to be breaking through the seal that keeps him from Earth and is looking to conquer Earth AND kill Dante as revenge by Proxy on Sparda. Dante takes the job both because of Trish's resemblance to Eva (and the unstated desire to see her again in some way) and possibly also to finally take some payback on the asshole responsible for ruining his life. Along the way he meets a mysterious Armored humanoid demon known as Nelo Angelo who he quickly becomes fond of in a friendly rivalry sort of way due to having "guts and honor." In their third and final confrontation, Nelo Angelo's helmet is removed and is revealed to be Dante's Long lost brother Vergil, now stripped of most of his will and twisted into a puppet for Mundus. Dante realizes this after Nelo Angelo's defeat, where NA drops the Amulet that Dante and Vergil fought over so long ago. Dante then comes out of this adventure having learned Trish was a clone of Eva made by Mundus specifically to manipulate him, but despite her betrayal he spared her life because he couldn't bring himself to harm his mother's doppelganger. This leads to her risking her life to take a killing blow for Dante and further motivating him to Kick Mundus's ass back to Hell. Which he does.
Dante gets revenge on Mundus, and gains a new ally in Trish, but the (supposedly) permanent loss of Vergil sends him spiraling into a deep depression, which leads us to the events of DMC 2 and the Anime series.
DMC2 sucks from both a "Dante is OOC" standpoint and a "it's a highly rushed and inferior successor to DMC1" standpoint, so I won't be going into too much depth. But despite both that and the fact I have yet to watch the anime (because I've heard similar complaints about characterization and a lack of action that DMC's known for), both of them serve a very important purpose thanks to Capcom's rewritten chronology of the series, which goes from 3 -> 1 -> 2 -> 4 ->5 with the anime either being between 1 & 2 or 2 & 4. And that purpose is to show the depths of Dante's depression now that Vergil, the last member of his family he had, is seemingly dead and gone for good. In DMC2, he drops the smartass smacktalking jokester that he was in DMC3 and 1 in favor of a Jotaro Kujo-esque stoicism that got on a lot of fans' nerves. And in the Anime, he's so visibly depressed that he often hangs around his office doing next to nothing but staring blankly when he's not on a job, finding very little joy outside of demon killing and the occasional Strawberry parfait.
This changes in DMC4, where Dante meets Vergil's Bastard son Nero (that logically he would've had to have fathered some time almost immediately prior to DMC3), who he silently watches over in the game's intro and then serves as Nero's tutorial boss. When first appearing properly in DMC4, Dante speaks no words as he caps Sanctus in the face causes his Order of the Sword Church Service to flee in terror, much like he was in DMC2. But once Nero enters the scene and challenges him to a fight, he starts smiling and acting like his old, jokey self. From the rest of Nero's adventure he serves his nephew as a sort of Trickster mentor, baiting Nero across Fortuna's map so that Nero can discover the Order's dark secrets and conspiracies and discretely testing his character through combat. When Dante and Nero work together to stop Sanctus's plot for world domination through demonic power, rescue Nero's girlfriend Kyrie, and Dante concludes that Nero's far more well adjusted than his father, Dante allows Nero to hold onto the Yamato, Vergil's sword, as a way of "keeping it in the family" for protection.
(cont'd)
*[SPOILERS FOR DMCV FOR ANYONE WHO HASN'T PLAYED/WATCHED BY NOW]*
This came back to bite them all as sometime after that Vergil re-emerged and literally ripped the Yamato out of Nero's demonic arm in his latest bid for power. Due to a combination of his own childhood trauma and being a puppet for Mundus, Vergil's strange brotherly yet violent rivalry became twisted by his own psychosis into an all-consuming need for power so great that it led to him both his lowest low and his highest highs. After reclaiming the Yamato, a Katana with the ability to separate virtually anything from anything that Sparda used to seal Mundus away from the Human realm, he plunged it into himself and separated his very being into Human and Demonic halves. The Demonic Side, Urizen, took the seeds of the Qliphoth demon tree and planted them all around the world, so that it may grow and feed on human blood to produce the same fruit that granted Mundus the power to become Demon King. His Human half, V, realized how badly he fucked up and how powerless he currently was and sought Dante's help, both to end Urizen's threat and get close enough to Urizen to re-merge with so that V's rapidly deteriorating body doesn't crumble to pieces.
Urizen starts the game as far more powerful than any threat the heroes have faced, soundly beating Dante, Nero, Lady and Trish and causing untold Millions of deaths globally. Dante's beaten so bad he ends up in a coma for a month.
Throughout the franchise Dante's fully embraced his human side in total contrast to his brother, but it comes to a head in DMCV where he fully accepts his demonic heritage and manifests his own Demon Sword named after him that allows him to fully unlock his potential and defeat Urizen in a rematch, which allows V to merge with Urizen and revive Vergil as himself. Knowing that Vergil's crossed too many lines to be allowed to be left alone, Dante urges Nero to not get involved despite Nero still wanting revenge for his arm. Dante reveals to Nero that Vergil was his father the whole time and sets out to put his brother down once and for all, albeit reluctantly. Vergil, having gained development through V, starts to doubt himself for possibly the first time ever, questioning his motivation and how easily he and Dante's roles could've been reversed. While this is happening, Nero is dragged away by Lady and Trish, who echo Dante's desire to not let Nero be the one to kill his own father (Lady in particular claiming it's a trauma one can't get away from, harkening back to her own mixed feelings about having to put down her father who at one point was implied to be on good terms with her).
Nero instead heads back up the tree as Dante and Vergil duke it out one last time. With one last pep talk from Kyrie via the phone, Nero busts in at the last moment and proclaims that he refuses to let Dante and Vergil kill each other. Dante understands that Nero's only here to knock some sense into his long lost father instead of killing him, and so agrees to Vergil's challenge that "Beating Nero means I beat Dante" by proxy. Nero beats his father, and paradoxically this results in them establishing a mutual respect. Dante and Vergil head back into Hell to cut down the Qliphoth's roots, knowing full well that it requires a oneway trip with no way back to Earth, Dante passing the torch of Devil Hunter to his Nephew as both he and his brother spend presumably the rest of their days fighting Demons to their hearts' content alongside one another as a sort of Valhalla-esque afterlife while Nero takes up the charge to clean up the mess on Earth.
(cont'd)
...I kinda got carried away here but the point of all this was that Devil May Cry is a good series, albeit an oftentimes flawed one, that over the course of the years and a really crappy edgefest attempt at a reboot, crafted a sprawling, emotionally rich narrative with themes of family relationships, distant fatherhood, humanity as a metaphor for compassion and moral strength, and demonhood representing the pursuit of power at the expense of others, all crafted from humble beginnings and incredibly rich, diverse combat mechanics that allow one to perform *Smoking Sexy Style*. So for someone who loves getting into the nitty-gritty of narratives as much as you, I figure you'd probably have fun with it, especially if it means the potential sequel to this video acknowledges that Dave and Dante are even similar than you might've expected
Because while I'm sure it wasn't your intention at all, I don't want people to come away with the notion pushed by certain *rubes* that Dante's a flat character who's a hedonistic too-cool-for-school jackass with nothing else going on for him. He's a cool guy with insecurities much like our favorite Knight of Time, and I say this to share with you my own personal enjoyment of his character and the layers he possesses.
Yall be nice to this horse because he is my best friend. And he is very correct and very THOROUGH. This is probably the best "DMC series recap in 10 minutes" you could get. Even the Recap in 5 takes longer.
i love your work and videos very unironically and genuinely its rare to feel like this 4 me
Glad to see it was uploaded safely and the one on Patreon is back, can't wait for part 3 :)
This was so good! Brought up a lot of stuff I hadn't even considered before :0
This is so good, thank you
But will Dave be able to fill Dirks dark soul with light?
More like Heart. And the answer is "we don't know yet".
Yay another Vid
Love your videos if you see this Optimistic Duelist.
I am a simple person. I see a new HSE video, I go absolutely feral
its back finallyyyyy
Nice, you're alive!!!
cool and epic
Lol ur the first
And new!
Props to kronos for being there on like every vid
He is god (well, titan, but that's the same thing) of time and one of the inspirations for Lord English. Of course he is already here.
awsome
"The devil may cry franchise." WE STANNNNNNN
Hiii ! I was wondering, what is the game who is display à 2min ? Thanks in advance !
*sees video about dave*
ah yes i like this man the Normal amount
*hides my dave cosplay behind my back*
Can you talk about Violet bloods sooner or later
very cool. it went fast but i was able to follow along.
just a little tip; thats not how "hephaestus" is pronounced. the "ae" is one syllable, like "aye"
Guys I really need help please! I just finished reading homestuck (yes im a new fan) And i saw people talking abt God tier karkat (knight of blood) and Tavros god tier etc. but when reading the comics I never saw that happen. if its bc it DIDN'T happend then how people have the certitude of karkat being a Knight of blood. Tavros breath and other trolls that didn't reach god tier.
In Act 5 Act 1, during the Trolls' session section of the story, the text describes each troll by their title at certain points! So that's how we know. Also, during the sessions in the dream bubble afterlife you can sometimes see the various trolls in their god tier outfits from other timelines where they did ascend.
@@optimisticDuelist thank you so much for responding. i will read again the act to make sure I understand
I love ur sona
Oh hewwo
Well who are you and why are you taking about the best cool dude Dave Strider
I'm interested
is it just me or is the video very slightly sped up
Wait dave had a crush on john? When?
when he was younger. he talks about it a bit in HS and in pesterquest i think
It is implied in Homestuck, but directly stated only outside of it.
Why does dave's theme remind me of the pepsi man videi game theme?
woah im kinda early
Hephaestus: Heh-Fest-us MAYBE Heh-fayst-us
Yaldabaoth: Yal-Da-Bay-Oath
Not Heh-fie-estus and Yal-dabow-ath
Whats up with the music...?
clockwork was kinda annoying at the end, yeah
3:00 Which ironically was also present in Pony Pals.
4:18 Also, the whole story of Andúril, the broken and unbroken sword of Aragorn from Lord of the Rings. Explanations about it here: ilikehomestuckproject.tumblr.com/post/143631428947/why-i-like-the-striders-swords and there was also a post i can't find by OD himself, about the connections between Dave breaking caledflech, Equius breaking things, and the fact Equius thinks Dave is noble because he was raised by Bro (long story shirt; breaking things is what destroyers do, Bards and Princes, and the destroyer classes are linked with the archetype of nobility, which Equius worships and Dave has doubts about).
yeah caliborn is same hero like griffith. wait griffith is worse.
IM SO EARLY?
First
...
englishpumpkinparty
Wait dave had a crush on john? When?
yep in his pesterquest bad end it was a sorta big theme. he also told rose he loved john in one pesterlog