well said, this was the first one I watched and made me sub. the jazz analogy is perfect, and the idea that not every game needs to be for everyone is severely underrated and missed by an unfortunate amount of people. NKB makes a similar point in his video about easy modes. also, I have to thank you for calling out Witcher 3 on its gameplay. sometimes I feel like a crazy person for thinking the combat is so bad that it holds me back from enjoying the rest of the game. personally I can enjoy both, but I think a story-focused game has to consistently work harder to keep me interested if the gameplay isn't engaging. interactivity is unique to the medium of games, and I think truly great games don't HAVE to use that to their advantage to be great, but I think they should. lmfao @ the comment around 0:11 that uses Bioshock Infinite as an example of an important and impactful story instead of 1 or 2, let alone mentioning Infinite at all in such a discussion
I was watching your KH2 vid and this vid immediately got me thinking about KH 358/2 Days. Objectively, I can say it's a game that's tiring and boring to play after a long time, but oddly enough, I feel like this also enhances the story of that game and it's themes. The mission based structure with so many same-y missions and poorly designed boss fights help add to the feeling of Roxas growing tired and fed up with the Organization and it's secrecy, wanting a way out and eventually finding it. Seeing the friendships fall apart makes the tragedy of Axel, Xion, and Roxas feel more personal as it feels like you're actively playing through it in real time. It's something a collection of cutscenes on the HD Collection can't convey, even if the story is clearly what most people only care about. It's one of those instances of a game that I enjoy but can't recommend, sorta similar to how I feel about Pathologic or Death Stranding, for immediate comparison.
My relationship with gameplay vs story is polygamous. Going off your Dark Souls example, I always thought it interesting how the difficulty can be seen as another storytelling tool: things are hard at first because you're just some cursed bag of meat, but as you progress and get better and stronger, you grow into the role of the chosen one. It gets difficult to figure out where the gameplay aspect of the difficulty ends and the storytelling begins, they just sort of peacefully coexist. Or to use a Bethesda example because "lulmemes", there's a lot of environmental storytelling going on while you just explore, and I'm not talking about the little journals and notes you find, some places just give you the sense there's more going on and that's portrayed through exploration gameplay. Exploring is fun, looting is fun, but there's still a little story in there, too. And I could go into Bethesda games facilitating player involvement in the story by letting them get immersed and imagine themselves in that world which is done via more gameplay trickery, but I'm going long now. Really awesome video. Super succinct, no fluff. Love it.
I like the idea that the idea of a player giving up is also actually a part of the story in the Souls' games as an element of the universe: the player that has quit has become just another one of the innumerable hollows that you see throughout the game.
One thing I despise that gets in the way of both is how so many open world RPGs absolutely fill the games with filler content now Me who sees the unexplored icon on the map will spend 5 minutes traveling to it when there's 1000 of them
I totally agree with your video and it's a great video I just wanna say that I tried playing the newest Guardians of the Galaxy game and was interested in the story and characters but the gameplay was so bad that I couldn't keep playing too long (also funny thing, the first time they played music after huddling up or whatever, I got Rick rolled)
You may change your mind about The Witcher 3 if you try out a mod called Ghost Mode (PC only). I had the exact same problem, and this mod made the game actually fun for me. Ended up spending 200 hours and loving the game to death.
It's synergy Good story adds depth and intention to gameplay while a good gameplay keeps interest and immersion in the story When they are bith good they make great games, but one has to be amazing to compensate for a bad counterpart to make a passable game
Greedfall is only fun if you play Tactician, and it’s still got bad gameplay. I think it’s better than the Witcher 3, but it’s never great. Especially after my 1000th Nadaig fight that I didn’t want or need
If you want a good story go fucking read a book, people that care more about story are unironically what are killing the industry and turning it into hollywood but for hipsters and edgy zoomers. A game with bad or no gameplay will never be a good game, at most, an interactive movie or an audiovisual experience.
well said, this was the first one I watched and made me sub. the jazz analogy is perfect, and the idea that not every game needs to be for everyone is severely underrated and missed by an unfortunate amount of people. NKB makes a similar point in his video about easy modes. also, I have to thank you for calling out Witcher 3 on its gameplay. sometimes I feel like a crazy person for thinking the combat is so bad that it holds me back from enjoying the rest of the game.
personally I can enjoy both, but I think a story-focused game has to consistently work harder to keep me interested if the gameplay isn't engaging. interactivity is unique to the medium of games, and I think truly great games don't HAVE to use that to their advantage to be great, but I think they should.
lmfao @ the comment around 0:11 that uses Bioshock Infinite as an example of an important and impactful story instead of 1 or 2, let alone mentioning Infinite at all in such a discussion
I love the jazz analogy 🙌
I was watching your KH2 vid and this vid immediately got me thinking about KH 358/2 Days. Objectively, I can say it's a game that's tiring and boring to play after a long time, but oddly enough, I feel like this also enhances the story of that game and it's themes. The mission based structure with so many same-y missions and poorly designed boss fights help add to the feeling of Roxas growing tired and fed up with the Organization and it's secrecy, wanting a way out and eventually finding it. Seeing the friendships fall apart makes the tragedy of Axel, Xion, and Roxas feel more personal as it feels like you're actively playing through it in real time. It's something a collection of cutscenes on the HD Collection can't convey, even if the story is clearly what most people only care about.
It's one of those instances of a game that I enjoy but can't recommend, sorta similar to how I feel about Pathologic or Death Stranding, for immediate comparison.
My relationship with gameplay vs story is polygamous.
Going off your Dark Souls example, I always thought it interesting how the difficulty can be seen as another storytelling tool: things are hard at first because you're just some cursed bag of meat, but as you progress and get better and stronger, you grow into the role of the chosen one. It gets difficult to figure out where the gameplay aspect of the difficulty ends and the storytelling begins, they just sort of peacefully coexist.
Or to use a Bethesda example because "lulmemes", there's a lot of environmental storytelling going on while you just explore, and I'm not talking about the little journals and notes you find, some places just give you the sense there's more going on and that's portrayed through exploration gameplay. Exploring is fun, looting is fun, but there's still a little story in there, too. And I could go into Bethesda games facilitating player involvement in the story by letting them get immersed and imagine themselves in that world which is done via more gameplay trickery, but I'm going long now.
Really awesome video. Super succinct, no fluff. Love it.
I like the idea that the idea of a player giving up is also actually a part of the story in the Souls' games as an element of the universe: the player that has quit has become just another one of the innumerable hollows that you see throughout the game.
One thing I despise that gets in the way of both is how so many open world RPGs absolutely fill the games with filler content now
Me who sees the unexplored icon on the map will spend 5 minutes traveling to it when there's 1000 of them
I totally agree with your video and it's a great video
I just wanna say that I tried playing the newest Guardians of the Galaxy game and was interested in the story and characters but the gameplay was so bad that I couldn't keep playing too long (also funny thing, the first time they played music after huddling up or whatever, I got Rick rolled)
You may change your mind about The Witcher 3 if you try out a mod called Ghost Mode (PC only). I had the exact same problem, and this mod made the game actually fun for me. Ended up spending 200 hours and loving the game to death.
damn we got a FREE JAZZ HATER OVER HERE
People forgot books exist
It's synergy
Good story adds depth and intention to gameplay while a good gameplay keeps interest and immersion in the story
When they are bith good they make great games, but one has to be amazing to compensate for a bad counterpart to make a passable game
🤔🙌
Greedfall is only fun if you play Tactician, and it’s still got bad gameplay. I think it’s better than the Witcher 3, but it’s never great. Especially after my 1000th Nadaig fight that I didn’t want or need
If you want a good story go fucking read a book, people that care more about story are unironically what are killing the industry and turning it into hollywood but for hipsters and edgy zoomers.
A game with bad or no gameplay will never be a good game, at most, an interactive movie or an audiovisual experience.