5.0L FIGHT-302 FORD VS 305 CHEVY-FULL RESULTS
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- TOTALLY 80'S TECH! 302 FORD VS 305 CHEVY. NA, HCI MODS, SUPERCHARGED-ITS ALL HERE IN Part 2 of the 5.0L Fight. Ford 5.0L 302 vs Chevy 5.0L 305. Back in part 1,we covered the 5.0L TPI 305 Chevy. Now we take a look at the Legendary 5.0L Ford, stock, with heads, Cam & Intake-then with a TorqStorm supercharger.
This guy is like the Mythbusters but for engines.
@Chris L perhaps you could do some of your own dyno videos addressing whatever it is you consider richard to be wrong about?
Chris L explain
Chris L you have a degree in engineering? How about 30 years or so building turbocharged and supercharged engines? Oh did you say no? SHUT YOUR pie hole and kick rocks!
Instablaster.
Both engines did great. Over 600 hp is more than enough for a street Camaro or Mustang of that vintage. Thanks.
Agreed. And 6400 rpm works for me
On two bolt mains
600 is plenty for anything on the street😂
My Corvette came with a 4 bolt main block and a 4 inch bore, what would a 383 make supercharged? I bored and stroked the stock motor and boy what a difference.
vs a 347 Ford stroker! That was a Ford popular stroker in the day.
I just watched a youtube video of the 1989 silver state classic. It showed a young Holdener out there running the snot out of his new mustang. Much respect!!
I had that on vhs!
Found it ua-cam.com/video/e-PFfwxR3SQ/v-deo.html
I didn't know that was him lol. I remember the mustang having only exhaust work and hauling ass
Haha he had hair back then 👨🏻
@@zapa47 - haven't seen this in years. Thanks.
I'm not a Chevy engine guy anymore. I'm now a "just add boost" guy
Me too. All the vehicles I owe are turbo charged, with the exception of my 2000 Regal GS which has a supercharger, but not for long.
Haha same dude. Doesn't matter the engine.. is it slow? Just order a Ebay turbo and you're good to go!
@Brett Collins well, turbo and it's needs. Injectors, fuel pump, tune, wg, bov, temp issues, oil passages. I've just built a couple turbo LS and I now I just see them as the general way to go
I would never spend the money on a 305 Chevy, I would rather replace it with a 350.
The Ford 302 is a much better engine, to spend money on.
How so? 302 often splits the block at 600hp +
And that's why the 305 never got too much love from the aftermarket because the 305 and 350 had exactly the same outside dimension. Anywhere a 305 would go a 350 would bolt right in and look better. That's not the case with the 302 vs. 351 ford. The 302 was a short deck and would fit better between the narrow strut towers of the fox body.
@@deantape2759 run a Boss 302 block
@@ttank1994 Though true, the 327's was very sought after and people often pulled their 350's to stuff in a 327's (especially with some double hump heads).
@@deantape2759 fake news....
Love that old school 5L tech. They make crap for power compared to modern engines but a 5L Ford is what made me a car guy. Good job. Keep them coming.
they started all this craziness
And really, how often is the full 600hp used, in a daily. A good dose of grunt, like both the Ford and Chev have, and you’re good to go. The iron block 308/304 Holden here in Australia ran 4.0 bore spacing. It did pretty well for itself.
@@RadRidesByCru and tuning. The ecm on the 5.3 is just great for tuners. Not many PCM options on an efi 302.
@@RadRidesByCru not really man the 5.3 is just a way better engine in every aspect, way better tuning, fuel economy reliability driveability etc people run stock engines all the way up too 1000 horsepower and can't kill the damn things and with the Ford you have to do a full aftermarket rebuild basically if your looking past 400HP reliably and you already are rebuilding basically if your putting a stroker kit in it, the 5.3 will be cheaper to buy than a stroker kit in the first place as well it's just a way better platform but on the other hand the coyote platform murders like its name was Ted Bundy
Well, what do I know? Lol. I was an 80s guy and always believed that the Ford 5.0L was the Better Engine in Comparison to the Smoger 305 bowtie, thought it made more Power and Torque, because the 'Stang felt alive while the Bowtie felt reserved.
I had friends that owned one or the other, and the 'Stang always felt wild in comparison, just better pick up and straight line acceleration. Handling went to the Bowtie.
608 HP! WOW!!!
Thanks for the great in depth comparison.
I would love to see you try a big bang on a built Dart block 347, 363, 400, 408, 418 or 427 Sbf.
Agreed
Me three
Almost 30 years ago, my buddy had a stock 84' Z28 with a 305HO 5 Spd.
We sreet raced that thing all the time, and every Mustang we raced....lost. Those guy's ALWAYS had excuses, but the clipboard we carried didn't lie.
Thanks for the memory of the days past, LS is where it's at!!!
Guns N Gears I had an ‘84 z28 L69 H.O. 5-speed back in 1991. My car had no a/c, no power accessories, and what became the 1LE package the following year. My car was as it came from the assembly line except for a nice stereo system. It beat the stock Stangs every time. There was a guy in town who had a 1986 5.0 stang. We raced several times, but it was always a driver’s race. He had deep gears, headers, and a/c. The last time we raced, I lost due to a broken shift fork in the T-5. For those dark days of smog-bred wheezers, both the Camaro and mustang kept the spirit alive. At the same time, my brother had an ‘85 IROC with the anemic LG4 5.0. He wouldn’t even try to race my L69
@@mistered9435 ah yes, the good ol days!! Thanks for sharing you're memories, as it brings even more back to me from the day
God do I miss the 2nd gear launches from about 30, just hearing that spreadbore howl.
Now days, I'd be happier than a Pig in shit to have any of those cars, cause a Guy could work on them without the aid of a Computer.
That’s too funny because I had a 1970 mark one 351 Cleveland for barrel heads high rise and I eat a lot of Irox and some hem I hate it I rock that was like a Guido car
@@freedomfighter5054 maybe so, but as I recall, the video was about the Ford 5.0
Very cool , some day I would love to see a old school Ford FE testing.
me too
@@richardholdener1727 Haven't seen you since those open road races in Nevada. You look good. Cool channel. Good content. 👍
Expensive I know but I've always wanted to see a small big block shootout. 390,396,389 etc...be cool.
@@richardholdener1727 I'm seeing the FE guys building this 445 configuration. I know FE's parts are pretty interchangeable from 352 up to 428. Id like to see what you would come up with. Thanks!
I was hoping Godzilla was going to be an all-aluminum, injected 427FE. Now THAT would have been a real monster. A legend reborn!
Ahhhh.....the memories!
Thanks for the comparison Richard!!
I'm the original owner of an '85 GT 5.0 (last year of the Holley carb Mustangs)
I did plenty of my own 'comparisons' back in the day vs. IROC-Z 305s.....
and they always lost.
I especially loved the 5.7L IROC-Zs because their owners KNEW that they had a better motor than the 305. Unfortunately for them.... my little 302 walked them almost as badly as the 305s.
Now I've got a built 363 SBF/Magnum 6 speed and the 3,100 lb '85 GT is wicked fast.
sadly,you went up against tbi's and the lowly lg4 carbed 305........they are the most used engines in the irocs(cheaper) if you met a few lb9 (tpi) 305's with the stick you would have had a much harder time.the tpi autos were also not the best,much like the l98 350 with a shitty 4 speed auto and poor gears...apples to apples these cars (mustang/iroc/ t/a )with the 5.0 and 5 speed were pretty evenly matched
@@trillrifaxegrindor4411 maybe it's an altitude thing but at high elevation, it isn't even close. 305 was terrible.
Loving the variety. These old small blocks are still a great platform with lots of potential. Would love to see a small block mopar if possible!
I have only ever built 1 360 Mopar and pulled it out of my running van
@@richardholdener1727 surprising to hear you've only built one. howcome you pulled it out?
36k subscribers and climbing, this channel definitely deserves more boost !!!!!
Can’t get enough 5.0 Ford stuff I have 2
Ahh the days where the Ford guys would ask their buddies “did you go with the B or the E 303 cam and are you going shorty or full length headers?” and Chevy guys would ask their buddies, “when ya gonna tear that FI shit off and throw a Holley on it?”
You are right! Lol,those were the days!😂👍
The tuned port was a great truck motor.
@@bartpang it really was. Such a shame that they never realized that it should be used in that fashion.
True story. The stealth ram helped things out alot when holley released it 12 years after the last tpi engine was made and nobody gave a crap anymore, but i cant tell you how many times i saw carbs where there should have been a tpi manifold.
B cam
5.0 Ford block had some limitations. Thin wall casting splits in the Valley, main caps need support.
unfortunately main cap support doesn't stop the splitting-its the other direction
Richard. Thank you for these daily videos, they lend some bit of normalcy to these crazy times.
Back in the day, with the 5.0 Ford engine in the Mustangs, I seem to recall 275-280h.p. being the "standard" horsepower number with the "usual" bolt-ons done to them. I realize that there were many that made much more than that, but it seemed to be the common number for a guy that didn't want to dig into the short block, and just bolted on the usual speed parts.
I remember the 5.0 ford engines constantly overheating and needed to be rebuilt, the 305 is rock solid.
Was amazed at the 5 liter Chevy na power. Back in the early 90s I seen many ford and Chevy battles street racing, we never had a drag strip, the 305 camaro/ firebirds were dirt. The mustangs would eat them. You say both run close to the same numbers but you need to realize that a 90s camaro was alot heavier then a 90s mustang so that 3 or 400 pounds made a big difference. Brought back some good memories. Thanks.
depending on the models fully loaded GT was 3200lbs easy.... fbody wasn't to far off....... the old 3rd gens and foxbody are feather weights compared to the new generation lol
That was my experience on the street as well and that is based on owning 2 3rd gen TPI Camaros and 3 Fox bodied 5.0L cars in the 80's. The "Five Ohs" always outran the 305 TPI cars and usually hung with the 350 TPI F-Bodys up to about 130 mph. I think the real difference between the two was most TPI cars had automatic transmissions with stock torque converters and rear gear changes were not commonly done due to cost at the time. Where "most" 5.0L Fox cars had 5sp manuals with better gearing and a rear gear ratio swap was a cheap and common upgrade at the time. (Personally liked the 3.73 rear gears in the 8.8") I feel this is why the Mustangs ruled the stoplight races back in the day with basically the same or even a little less power as the TPI cars, better gear leverage was in Ford's favor back then.
Fun memories!
Fitzee's Fabrications they weighed basically the same... the lightest v8 camaro was ballpark 3200 pounds, the lightest mustang was like 3100 and change... less than 100 pounds is absolutely nothing....
Way back when Richard would have his own column in MM&FF I would anxiously wait every month to read what new project he tested. He always gave incredible information. Thanks Richard well over 20years I am still impressed. Just a tad bit of information-I owned a chassis dyno business for years and to this day still tune multiple software's. It takes alot to impress me. Thanks for your hard work. Most on here DO NOT realize the commitment and time required just to perform these test. Once again- thank you for this content!
thnx for the support
@@richardholdener1727 Again, thanks for the content. You have been an inspiration in my endeavors. Deep inside I am a Ford guy but i appreciate anything internal combustion. My 2nd choice is Hemi. There isn't anything like a Hemi pounding the dyno or dragstrip. In your free time would you please do a solid vs hyd roller comparo on a sbf? I am currently putting together a solid roller sbf for the street. I feel you would give the facts & no opinion on the setup.
Id like to see a 302 DZ Chevy aginst a 302 Ford. Just for the bore and stroke similarities.
the rarest chevy vs the most common ford....that test is boss302 vs dz...and chevy guys do not like that test at all
@@xxxmikeyjock
I'd like to see a 396 destroked to 2.9" to give 305 cubic inches.
Compared to the boss 302.
Both would have big angled valves.
@@xxxmikeyjock we like it fine since the dz302 stomped the furd 302 on track.
@@HioSSilver1999 lmao not even close the dz was good but the boss was just that
@@xxxmikeyjock The DZ302 ran right with the Boss 302 especially on the track.
But but but, Richard, everyone knows the second you make over 500hp on a stock 302 block it will crack like an egg! No exceptions! /s
smpstech I would recommend you look up project stock bottom end on Facebook. These guys make 900hp if I remember correctly on a stock block
They do commonly crack at 500-600hp. Putting an engine on the Dyno in a 60 degrees room while doing a couple seconds dyno pull is a hell of a lot different than driving 500 miles down the interstate when it's 105 degrees with the AC on. Or a 12-13 second race where the engine is very quickly changing rpm aka banging gears.
Timing dude everyone knows stock bottom end you're very conservative on timing to make it live
@@ctmpeanut that's correct
RPM and boost is what takes out the block not hp
Kudos for buying your Mustang new and KEEPING it! I've owned four and am itching for a fifth one but the explosion in all car prices has kept me out of the game 😢
I'm a bowtie guy but I can't argue with the big bore/short stroke of a 302. Allows bigger valves and better flowing heads than the 305. I'd like to see a Chevy 302 vs a Ford 302 shootout. Same bore and stroke. Similar cams. Similar heads. Hell, even a 350 vs 351.
Richard, I would like to see a comparison of that TFS intake vs the Box R intake vs the GT40 intake.
I'd like to see that too, but I think the GT40 would lose a bunch upstairs. It's runner's cross sectional area is pretty small.
Its been done plenty of times in the magazines and few other places. Like a lot of guys, I'm afraid to drop big money on the RPM2/Systemax 2/TFS R or some such thing and then hate the way it drives at everything that isn't WOT. Doesn't sound cool on youtube but its nice to not have to downshift to roll up a hill or pass traffic.
@@ewetoobz3840 the ford does well. The gt40-gtp kit scooted a 4000# explorer quite well. And scoots my 3250# ranger even better.
My buddy broke a bunch of stock 302 ford blocks they seem to crack from the lifter vally to the mains usually about the 600 mark on the 1/4 Mile
My buddy split a block in half around 5-600hp
500 ish they split...
Sorry rich, i started this morning but I'm back to finish the vid now! I'll have you know I'm always either getting ready for work or washing dishes watching your vids. Watch whenever i can 👌
do what you can brother and stay safe
306, hand ported twisted wedges, GT40 intake, X303, shorty headers and a Pro M maf matched to a set of 30lb/hr injectors on the A9L ecu. Back in the day!
Great comparison, only thing I can say is that pretty much no one uses the 305 SBC as a performance build. As you stated, the bore is the limiting factor.
Actually it's not the bore, a smaller bore makes a faster burn, the 305 is usually low compression with not much of an aftermarket piston selection.
Awesome video . I've had both engines and was impressed with both back in the day with what simple bolt ons that were available . Also the 302 will always out shine the the 305 . The 350 is Chevrolets golden child
You are very wrong. The 350 is a great engine and responds well to mods. The 327 was always intended to be a performance engine. The 350 debuted in 1967 and wasn't a performance engine until 1970. The 327 debuted in 1962 and was the highest rated sbc ever in 1963 at 365 hp in the corvette.
If you will read correctly I said the 305. And it is very true the 302 always has and will out shine the 305
@@chrismcculloch4751 if you read correctly you said the 350 is chevy's golden child. I said it wasn't.
Well I reckon opinions are like assholes everybody has one
Also the 327 is a darn good engine . I've had a couple hundred in my life time but not being able to get it in a 4 bolt main in my book makes the 350 the best engine as far as price , easy to find, and just an all out great motor and the most used engine ever built
I have an 87 5.0 t5 mustang I bought almost new! Had some mild mods…3.55 gears , underdrive pulleys, off road H pipe and a 65mm throttle body, air box silencer removed …other wise stock.
A buddy bought 91 z28 ( the year with the big wing) 305 TPI T5 with 3.42 gear ….he changed the exhaust somewhat (not sure what he did) added a different air induction system, better ignition stuff etc….our cars were very close with cubic inch , 5spd and gear ratios.
We raced dozens of times and I’d almost always beat him. …usually take him from a dig but sometimes I’d spin pretty good but still run him down by the end.
I thought his car would dust my mustang but I was very surprised with the outcome ….wasn’t a fluke cause we raced each other a lot.
My car at the time was running 13.6s to 13.8s depending on the day. He never took his car to a track but guessing it was a low 14 sec car.
Everyone is commenting on splitting the stock block above 500 hp. I agree absolutely. However when u build the correct combination it will live to race another day. I have a stock block 302 bored 30 over to a 306. Edelbrock heads comp cam and a ProCharger. Zero intercooler. With 92 pound injectors and 24 pounds of boost it makes 586 at the wheels thru a C4 and 373 gears. Made well over ten passes in the 9 second range. Still lives on today. It’s all about RPMS!!! I shift it at 5600 and never more and leave off a foot brake. Full weight GT with a cage. Not some stripped down she’ll of a drag car. It can be done!
Everyone had a stang back in the day. Friend of mine built a record automatic car. Maybe a deep dive in your car so people can see how they did it on the first real fuel injected platform
BuzzLOLOL : So did the Cosworth Vega, with an optional T50 Saginaw based, Borg Warner style 5 speed too for 76. Sadly, GM, often THE pioneers things with true excellence, THEN backs down. The Olds 350 EFi in the Caddillac was exceptionally smart. The Olds 403 in the Firebird TA was really powerfull. The Olds 350 diesel block was a great prostreet engine base
The Olds 307 was a great post malaise era Hurst Olds B muscle car. Gm just needed to keep up the halo end of common coupes and not soley rely on Corvettes and Caddy's for image and tech. Again, having a whole approach. The 305 with the right Brodix Pontiac style heads would have made the F body or MonteCarlo a real riot for many years.
Another great video Richard! A few questions,
1. what was the CR
2. Total timing
3.for overall output, are the 3/4" headers best or a smaller diameter pipe
4. rocker ratio
5.truth or myth-5.0l blocks split above 500HP(?). If true, what year blocks? I own a 76 vintage 302 and don't want to damage the original block in my stang.
Thank you, Tony
Loved this comparison. That was a great point about the bore size I hadn't really thought about that before!
I think the camaro /firebird handles better, and is definitely more comfortable! But Chevy 5.0 is more of a truck engine, mine would do 150 mph with the stock 5.0 Chevy, with 5speed, but night and day difference swapping to a 5.7L with trick flow, twisted wedge heads, and 10.2:1-10.5:1 compression, unshrouded heads really makes a difference!
Would love to see that 302 with the heads back to back tested na with a few different intake manifolds on it.
I really wish someone could do some load testing with them to help settle what makes the best compromise on a street driven car rather than pure 1/4 miles times.
I'd love to see a bore vs stroke comparison, something like a Chevy 302 vs 305 with same heads, cam, compression
Probably can't use the same 302 heads on a 305 due to the 305's smaller bore. That's the reason why 305 head choices are limited.
Why i love your videos. You give a fair shake no mater what manufacturer of the engine. Killer info
I like them all
There's a lot of comments about blocks, pistons and longevity with the Ford and here's my 2 cents worth.
When it comes to the block the best would be a 70's Mexican 302 with a roller kit, the 5.0 roller block started out weak but got stronger through its lifetime, but even the weakest (85) will survive a 400 dyno hp build.
Ford changed to hyperutetic pistons in 1993, those shouldn't be used for any build over 400 NA or 350 boosted.
And finally the weak link to the bottom end is the rod bolts, the stock ones are too small but the rod should NOT be machined to accept a larger one as the removed metal makes the rod weaker. Simply replacing the stock bolt with a higher grade one of the same size will give you a bottom end that will live at 7K all day long.
Thank you Richard for your videos, i really like you teaching style of fact based information.
I will use your video library when building my turbo 2500hd build and save so much time and money because of your actual results not marketing promises !
I'm honestly impressed that the 305 held it's own so well. I've always heard it's useless because of its bore size. But I think you should test the only real 5.0 litre... The 307SBC haha.
David James you’re forgetting the dz302... though the 307 is cool too
This brought back some memories. in 1987 and 88' I had a bone stock 84' GT with T-tops, even had the goofy TRX wheels. The 305 GM cars couldn't compete on the street, not even close; the 350 cars were a drivers race, always very close and lots of fun. Although one day an older dude (at the time, I'm an older dude now) was in a 83-85 turd brown stock looking RS Camaro, we got into it on the freeway, he left me big time ...as the kids now say, I was gapped. Never saw that car again as I have always wanted to know what he had under the hood.
@port nut I always have thought he had the bottle, there were to big black puffs of smoke as he was pulling away during a shift.
Those who were there in the '80s remember the street dyno. A 305 got stomped by a 5.0 every time. If you wanted to run a Camaro against a Mustang you better bring a 350 and hope the Stang misses a gear. Of course if you wanted to run a Mustang against that little V6 GN you better bring a gear, heads, headers, and a bunch of spray. Stock to stock it's the GN all day.
The ford tended to split the block when you got over 500 hp. They developed a reinforcement brace but it had limited success.
Only with nitrous oxide over 700hp. I ran a stock block w/ mild cam and a big ass turbo off of a catapiller generator made more than 700hp but it blew head gaskets all the time. Lol
@@andrewjolley3620 Bad tune kills more blocks than anything, but you are right about rpm. Keep it under 6,000 rpm and it will take a lot of power with a good tune.
Thank Richard! Keep ‘em coming! I really enjoy your vids!
Good video, much respect for anyone who is not a ford or chevy guy and is just an engine guy.
Guys like you show guys like us how to get the most bang for our bucks. It's nice to know roughly how much gain to expect from the components we put on our engines. And saves a feller the disappointment of spending a lot of money on junk that won't make power. Thank you for what you do. These types of UA-cam videos really mean a lot to us. GOD bless you.
Finally some videos of a real engine! We need More Windsor videos!!
So where is the 318 Dodge? Heads, intake, cam, turbos, lets go! :-)
bcbloc02 👍
Dodge and Plymouth were completely absent from the Pony car segment in the '80s. And no V8 had port EFI until 1991. The Magnum small block is a low RPM truck engine and would be pathetic in this comparison.
@@Joshie2256 Wrong. The only thing that makes the Magnum engines "truck engines" is the fact that they are biased towards low rpm torque. Change the heads, cam and intake like Richard did with the 5.0 and 305 TPI and you'd get similar results.
@@s0meguy809 Okay, so what was Dodge's 80s-90s pony or muscle car? A Daytona turbo? Omni GLHS? Wait, the Dodge Stealth R/T. That compares to a Camaro right? The only thing the Magnum small block came in were trucks and vans. There really isn't a good EFI Magnum intake manifold, only carb manifolds converted to EFI or modified stock intakes with a too-small runner cross section. I'm a Mopar guy and Mopar had zero RWD performance cars in the 1980s.
@@Joshie2256 That doesn't mean the magnum engine can't make some power. There's currently a stroker magnum zj grand cherokee that runs 9's on spray. Indy or Edelbrock heads, Hughes air gap and a cam in a 318 will make some nice power. It would have been nice if there were more efi intake choices. Problem was most guys that swapped magnums in older cars stuck with carbs.
Mee too. Mid 1990s i had an 87 convertible. Began mods with sub frame connectors sll the way to a 347 stroker with a Vortech S trim. It was fun.
But...dont do a convertible.
I actually don't miss pulling off injection and putting on carbs on either motor. Thanks for the awesome no BS info.
we ran these both with carbs too
@@richardholdener1727 back when it was Eprom tuning most guys just wanted something they could tune on their own. It just got kinda cooke cutter was all.
That na power curve looks like a 4.8l ls with a cam swap.
Also... I would be more interested to see them both pushed to the limits of the short block to see which one is stronger
Great explanation of both engines. Us chevy guys have known the benefits of the 4 inch bore since 1962 (327) when ford was still stuck at 289 ci. No one in their right mind has ever hotrodded the 305 when there are literally millions of 4 inch bore cases to work with.
No such thing as a Ford 289 in 1962, they were introduced in 1963 😁.
I really enjoyed the torque curve on the 302. The take away I got from the comparison is supercharger for the win.😎
I'm surprised the Ford 302 didn't split the block down the lifter valley at over 600 horsepower.
U also gotta understand its an engine dyno no drag from things in the engine bay and it was running open headers. That 600 hp is prob 500 at the wheels inside the car likely not that much...point is these have been known to live up to around 500 rwhp depending on use and how its tuned. So its not surprising it stayed together ecspecially on a dyno where it isnt as stressed as it would be inside the car on the street or track doing hard pulls
I've seen where guy's running that kind of power boosted with a girtle, and getting over 200 passes at the track before the block splitting.
@andrew jolley these aren't from your average joe shmo. These are from people that race these mustangs regularly and own race shops. Check out Neo mustang here on UA-cam. He raced on the stock 302 bottom end for a while and eventually put in a 351 which is the combo he's running now in his main car.
Its usually when you keep em at 600hp and start running em alot or racing them at that power level you put alot of strain on it and with that power output crack but just as a evernow and then thing itll take it just like that crank will take an 8rpm rev all day most will say it cant oh but it will the other stuff is all you have to work on the the cam rocker arms ect to take that rpm but the crank in a 302/5.0 will take 8rpm no prob
Amazing how tough ford blocks are. Chevy are paper thin in the intake valley.
I know the Chevy was new, and the Ford was from a bone yard but did you freshen up or ring gap... the Ford?
dean silva right? The chevy guys always do this.. they get new chevy stuff and always go for junkyard ford blocks n think the results will be “fair”
@@mikecorleone6797 "Chevy guys always do this" Sure pal. I'm sure you see this stuff all the time. Because as we all know, there are tons of guys building similar engines to similar specifications and testing them on engine dynos. You saw this one video that had one flaw (new vs old) so your inner ford fanboy commands you to jump on it. I can't imagine being so weak minded that you're a slave to a company for no real reason other than a false sense of superiority that you get from supporting them.
Or maybe I'm wrong, in which case you'll happily link me to an extensive amount of videos like this one where the "Chevy guys" (despite the guy owning a mustang and daily driving it) take an old ford engine and run it against a new chevy engine for the sake of comparison. They do it all the time, so this should be easy.
Corndog1911 actually almost every ford vs chevy video I’ve seen on youtube is always new chevy vs old ford or better quality parts for chevy n budget on ford all leading towards their goal of not allowing a ford to show it’s true power.. if you are going to do a ford vs chevy video do your research and actually level the field n play fair.. otherwise it’s just a 1 sided video on how a chevy fukboi tipped the scales in their favor and cheated the results..
@@mikecorleone6797 Then it should be easy. Give me 3 examples.
Corndog1911 I’m sorry I’m having a really hard time taking someone named corndog seriously 🤣
I'm a Ford guy, I'll admit it. Give me a Boss 351 SB Ford and the small block war is OVER. Lol!
You have to be very smart, very tenacious and have a serious reason (and budget) to get big power from a stock block Chevy 305 but it can be done. Big Time!
One of those reasons might be a Track maximum displacement rule.
I've seen 5.0 Litre Dirt Track Sprints that were running Chevy "claimer" rule engines that had to be a stock block Chevy 305 as from the factory. That's the only way the track would let them run.
We had kinda set the class up that way for us Ford guys and it worked great for a while til somebody figured out the secret combination on the little bore 305 Chevy.
These guys were getting 550 plus HP and turning 7500 RPM race after race with NO problems night after night because of the 5.0 Litre track rule. They gave us 302 Ford cars all we could stand and then sum!!
After they got 'em figured out, the Chevy 305's won as many races as the Ford Cars did and ran just as fast and maybe a little more reliable too. We ran our Fords til they POPPED trying to beat 'em.
So people who say a 305 Chevy won't run just haven't seen a screaming 305 win race after race. To get beat by a stock block 305 Chevy hurts you to the bone buddy!! LOL!
All in all Ford and Chevy small blocks (as different as they are) are VERY similar in power until you add the word "BOSS", then it's ALL FORD! Peace
Thanks for the lesson on bore and stroke. BTW, we had 302 Clevelands with 2V heads in Australia, .
Nice a guy that does the comparisons everyone wants. Now who will win a grizzly or a silverback. Lmao
I’m a simple man. I see a Richard Holdener video, I click. Then I click like. 👍🏼
simple and effective
@@richardholdener1727 Did you or do you plan on doing a video comparing the Chevy 350 vs Ford 351W in a similar way with pros and cons for each and showing each ones ability to make power?
Wow! 638 horses from a stock block 5 liter Ford is about 138 more than it should be able to take even with forged internals. I amazed that it held together. This is why I'm a ford guy.
That's actually a great compareson Richard....thank you
We need a Big Bang stock bottom end 302
Millhouse_Tuned that would be between 500 and 600 hp... they literally split in two
That’s what everyone says but I’d still like to see it
it would be a lot more than that
@@richardholdener1727 I run a stock block 8.2 class and we make crazy hp with these stock blocks, and all mine are nitrous motors. They will hold way more power than people think with the right tunes.
I had a Mustang and 5.0L Ford LTD (fox platform) so, I have some experience with the 5 liter Ford engine. One thing that I never liked about the 5 liter Ford is the low deck height. This causes the rods to move at a large angle relative to the pistons. Although the engine works fine, I always wondered if these rod angles had detrimental effects especially at higher rpm's? Any thoughts on that?
One of the last things even race engine builders think about. 100 other things to worry about before rod angle.
We screened the crap outta the 302 Windsors! Shot 150 on them 3-4 times a night 3-4 times a week! Had aftermarket rod bolts! But, buy a 351w and heads intake and cam to start with! So much more low in torque!
i love this guy, he does EVERYTHING we all want to do but don't have the time nor money to do......................i pulled a 180k 5.8 from a van, threw a few go fast goodies on it and power seems 50% improoved....... hands down, im spinning tires on a normal turn during take off.
As is turns out Europeans have found that small bores are actually more efficient when combined with the ideal combustion chamber. It's been found that a slightly above square motor has the ideal bore/stroke ratio due to flame travel. It's why almost all European engines have similar displacements (3.0L 6 cyl, 4.0L v8, 5.0L v10, 6.0L v12, 8.0L W16) . The "ideal" cylinder has a 1/2 Liter displacement and is slightly above square and ideally should have hemispherical combustion chambers. Instead of making the cylinders larger to increase displacement, they just take the same cylinder and add more. I think the 6.0L W12 in the Bentley (made by VW) is smaller in exterior dimensions than a SBC.
Have you done 350vs351?
What I would like to know is, how long would the bottom end last with all that powering the 302
I've heard of guys getting over 200 passes at the track before splitting the block.
Everything was a crap shoot with the Mustangs back then, I wouldn't think very long. You're talking 550 rwhp.
from what Ive seen, there are some unicorns which can hold 600whp all day long. But for the most part, 450-500whp is the limit if you want it to last. Personally I wouldn't go over 450whp if its a street/strip car since reliability is definitely a major factor.
@@coffelt683 There's 2 different 302 blocks in those years. There's YYY and XXX. The XXX blocks supposedly have more nickel and slightly thicker main webs. I'm not sure how true that is, but all the mustang guy's I've heard of building blocks for boost use the XXX blocks because of that.
@@hcrib1 heard that as well. The stronger may have referred to as a "mexican block?"
Keep up the good work Richard. I own Aussie built 5.7 so partial to and loving all your ls builds/tests. Cheers
Richard had one ultra-badass 5.0 Mustang that competed in the #CarCraft "Real Street Eliminator" Shootout back in 1991
he still has it!
Good stuff, Up next 318 dodge with china heads. 😝 Disinfect first before handling. 🦠
that sucker would make at least 200 hp ! if you put new heads ,headers,bigcam,big carb,10:1 pistons and mopar stickers. that's an increase of 50hp all for less than 3000 dollars!
Justin Riley I thought they made 180hp stock, or was it 160? 😝. 273ci was rated at 275hp. You'd have to install slant 6 heads with 2 cylinders lobed off to get 200hp.
@@TheProchargedmopar ours brand new in 1989 made 150hp.
@RichardHoldener plz talk about the blocks splitting
The 302 blocks splitting are the cheaper made blocks, have to look for the Mexican blocks that are much higher nickel content and can handle much more power, or you can also put a stud girdle on the mains on the cheaper block and it to can handle much more power
I would love to see a
-Vortec 5.7L 4.00” bore block
-L99 4.3L 3.00” stroke crank
-L99 4.3L 5.94” rods
-Stock LT1 pistons
-Stock LT1 roller camshaft
-TPI intake manifold
- heads of your choice & then see how much power GM left on the table by using a small bore
Thank you for all of your videos.
me too
the gearhead masses NEED THIS SHOW! BB chev-ford- mop same displacement ....
Please put a 3" stroke crank in a 350 some time with a comparable heads and cam set up.
That would be cool.
If it was all the same they would make the same power. Same bore, same stroke, same airflow, same cam, same compression, same curve.
That would be a 302 chevy...that was the configuration of the 302's in the 68&69 z28's
They call that a 302.. Or in chevyspeak a DZ302, they did it for the early camaros.. and like any overcammed underheaded chevy back in the day it made all it's power above 6000 rpm. So why rehash it? given the same head and cam specs they make the same power.
My best friend in high school bought a 68 z28 with a dz302 in it our junior year in high school (1983)... Paid $2700 for it! ....it had very little bottom end power but loved to rev.. Ended up with a really nice set of bow-tie ported heads and an isky solid lifter flat tappet cam in it..and it ran great back in the day...but we changed out the bottom end with a 350 and picked up .7 and 4 mph in the quarter mile with no other change..
It was a fun car and a great time to be a kid..
Hey Rich your car was missing a couple hundred pounds of ground effects
Would be cool to build an updated variant of the DZ302 using a factory roller 4 bolt 350 block and the crank from the L99 4.3 V8 from a Caprice, a set period 2.02/1.60 350 heads and test that one. Using all junkyard parts of course lol
that would be cool
I have wanted to do this but it would need heads and intake from a different era to really shine
Chevy made big valve heads back then, can’t remember which exact engine, shouldn’t be a problem, after that’s tested throw modern heads/cam/intake at it and see what happens.
Rich, have you been told lately that you are the Man..... Bro, you ARE the MAN. Keep doing the lords work.
I've been told a lot lately that I'm not
tell them to kick rocks bud! haha
That cam work with stock pistons?
How much hp with GT40 heads?
Love the vids!
I would think you would get less HP/TQ cos on the GT/40 heads are iron and they come with smaller valve's and the trick flow heads you can get the 2.02 valves. The trick flow heads just seems to be a better choice but I don't think it would be that big huge difference.
Trick flow heads are sweet but that’s a lot of money for a 302. Would love to see junkyard gt40 explorer heads with a lil porting
Eric Blatz I did a 331 junkyard build with gt40p and explorer intake (wanted room for improvement down the road with better heads). Fully ported the intake and exhaust bowls and polished the ports and port matched the lower to the heads to straighten the runners. N41 cam 10.5:1 compression makes good power
*I didn't know back then, I was already cool*
Don't lie Richard, you knew you were cool the moment you were born
I have a 304 SBF with Trick Flow 11R 190 cc heads (56cc milled versions), TFS Track Max Cam 595/595 110°lsa 242/246 camshaft, pro comp intake manifold (Vic jr style), ford Motorsports shorty headers, run by a Holley Sniper EFI setup. I need to put it on the dyno and get it tuned to see what it makes. Love your videos they always keep me entertained while building engines myself or just to purely watch while having a smoke in my garage. Keep grinding and shining 🤘🏼😎
thnx-let me know what happens
Thats a lot of cam for that motor
Great comparisons. Would've liked to have seen both boosted graphs overlayed to see the differences of the curves
Smokey Yunick always liked short strokes so he could fit the "longest damn rods" possible to get better rod angle to the crank on the power stroke. Have you done any tests with rod length?
Engine masters just did that test, rod ratio made no noticeable difference on their big block.
yes-rod length changed nothing
you might be thinking about changes in stroke length
5.0 Chevy was a boat anchor. Had two of them and they’re junk.
350 or go home.
Just like Richard said in a lot of the tests,the BIGGEST gains are in the cylinder head…more than camshaft, headers and intake. You can get more out of the cam,intake and exhaust if you start with the right cylinder head but all the cam,intake and header in the world won’t overcome 💩cylinder heads!! I knew this before watching the videos. How do you think they get the monster H.P.#’s out of the little 4 cylinder engines??Four valves and DOHC helps but flow is the key!! 2.0 L.DOHC Ford 4 cylinder engine puts out 160 H.P. n/a (unsure of torque #) and ecoboost 2.0 are 250 H.P. and 280 ft. lbs. of torque from the factory! The first car I bought brand new was a 82 Mustang GT… the quickest and fastest American car you could get that year 5.0 2bbl with a 351w marine cam and heads, single exhaust with a factory low restriction muffler…157 H.P. and 300 ft.lbs. torque with 2 1/2 times the engine size!! So same H.P. a little less torque than the first 5.0 “HO” from 40 years ago. I’m willing to bet that the heads flow better on the 2.0 than the 82 5.0 H.O.!!
heads, cam and intake
If this Chanel is a dream come true idk what is
Love this! How about 283 vs 289?
😂😂
I did a HiPo 289 build
@@bbbnnuuuhgg7016 both are great motors. What's up?
Ford: we had nothing!
Dodge: you guys have cylinder heads?
In 1985 I bought a brand new 1985 Trans Am with the 305 TPI engine. I had high expectations and was really disappointed in that engine. Even more so when I was regularly beaten by 5.0 Mustang GT's. I really never understood why GM went with the 305 with its small bore and 350 stroke vs bringing back the old 302 with the 4 inch bore and 3 inch stroke. I think even the old 307 with its 3.875 bore and the 3.25 stroke crank from the 327. Emissions perhaps?
Have you ever seen the road kill rotson that 5.0 was said to be nine stock and they put a single plane intake and 650 blow threw carb and cobbed and hacked a turbo kit together using up side down factory headers and a power stroke turbo and maid. 618torque and 550 hp
I know those guys well-where do you think they got the BBC for Stubby Bob
@@richardholdener1727 from u I think iv seen u on there a few times great group of people. I was just saying that was decent power for stock cam and heads I'm not knockin the heads a d fuel injection u did and the power u maid but it seams like a little head work and better shorty headers and cam and that road kill 5.0 would make a little more power and little less torque and be very fun and safe to play with
Very good channel love the content that u put out and I look forward to seeing new videos
👐
I'm surprised with the larger cylinder heads and cam that the 302 actually GAINED torque at the low end also. In the forums they will claim low end torque loss if you change anything.
You just reminded me of the good old days lol. Both of them and their successors would fade to black 🖤. You would end up with absolutely no brakes. If you survived and just let of continuing to cruise, they came back, kinda. Good times! Made us better drivers.
Why Chevy went out of their way to make a 305 vs the 302 - i will NEVER understand! The TPI motor was the best truck motor of the eighties
Hey what size injectors did you run on the supercharged 302 and did the 302 have a girdle on it.
both motors were stock bottom ends-no girdles (which don't stop the block from splitting), injectors were 80s
by being honest you have earned my subscription
I worked at a Ford dealership from the early 80s to early 90s and when a fresh load of mustang's came in we would meet the Chevy dealership and race the camera they never had 1 that would run with the mustang the Corvette could from a dead stop but only a car length or 2 according to traction from a role the mustang beat the Corvette by a car length or to the vette and mustang ran like they were welded together separated by the jump the Corvette seemed to have slow throttle response from a role that put the mustang ahead and at dead start the same throttle response but perfect traction gave it the jump
You are the person I know that gave a comparison to Ford's 302 with Chevs 305 ever ! I'm surprised