Solar kayak - new propeller test
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- Опубліковано 22 лис 2018
- Why an aircraft propeller? More on that here: • Model Aircraft propell...
DIY 18V electric outboard motor. HRS 775 cordless drill motor and gearbox, APC 8" x 4" model aircraft propeller.
First successful test with a brushless motor and new panel: • Solar Kayak 2.0 - top ...
Trolling motor construction video: • DIY electric kayak mot...
Nearly triple the propulsive power compared to the drone prop ( • Drone propeller pod fo... ). No battery or MPPT electronics. The aim of this project is to optimise the solar-motor-propeller match.
The solar panels have since been replaced with a 300W mono-crystalline smart panel and MPPT controller. The brushed motor has been replaced with a brushless motor and an entirely new drive train: • Solar kayak - Brushles... - Навчання та стиль
Using an aircraft propeller might seem counter-intuitive. I explain their performance underwater here: ua-cam.com/video/4kL66c6T9po/v-deo.html
use super capasitor
Add battery for backup. Because it won't run at night or in rainy weather
are those pontoons custom?
@@vinny8532 yes, glued sheets of xps foam, shaped and covered in thin fiberglass.
The outriggers seem like a nice feature even if they didn't support photovoltaics, the extra stability might be enough to make it reasonable to stand up in your kayak if your back gets sore from sitting.
Key note for solar panels: shade on even just one cell of a panel will act as a resistor to the whole system which is why you get such a drastic decrease in power despite having several other solar panels with full sun coverage.. The single cell actually restricts the flow of current.. Thats why panels are best for keeping batteries charged and running the motor off of the battery. Hope this helps! :)
@Alfonso Soriano If they were all in series one dead cell would not slow the motor it would stop it
excellent info, thanks
The weight of the battery should also be put to consideration
@@steveddad4385 all panels have a bypass diode built into the junction box. He would be better off with a Lithium deep cycle battery. They are light weight so weight wouldn't be an issue.
@@ddee2501 Weight doesn't matter much if your speed is constant.
Many have said it. You need a different prop. Match it up with the lowest kv motor for your voltage. Brushless 110-120kv (@ 12.6v)motor with a trolling motor prop. I would find an old trolling motor and gut it. Use the shaft cut off and coupled to a brushless motor. Seals work well and you can cut weight by removing the old trolling magnets and resistors in the front if that's where they are located. Esc can be ran using a servo tester / potentiometer. Best of luck. Please make more videos!
I have just tested a 215Kv brushless with bevel gear reduction drive. Unfortunately the electronics did not play along but I am working on it. New video soon. On the subject of the prop - a fluid is a fluid. If Reynolds number is the same the prop would not know the difference. Reynolds number is all about ratios, so for a given size prop all you need to do is match the rpm to suit the new fluid's density and viscosity.
Gear reductions will create drag because of the moving parts. Why not go lower on the kv and direct drive the prop? Get crazy and make a single blade counter weighted prop! I would even think about putting the prop in the front with a small nose cone. The turbulence from the rear of the case can't be helping. Just ideas. Thanks for the response. I really enjoy this kind of stuff. 15 years in rc. 5 of them fpv. Now 2 weeks with an electric kayak and I'm thinking how I can make it more efficient. Cheers!
@@cuzimnik25 There is indeed more drag on the gears but it allows me to mount a large motor on a vertical shaft and keep the underwater housing small and streamlined. My new design does have the prop mounted in front. Spinner turned out of Black Cherry on a bench drill. The 3.7:1 gear reduction gives me the equivalent shaft torque and rpm of a 58Kv motor. I should now be able to swing a 10" prop with very coarse pitch, further improving efficiency, hopefully enough to justify the gear drag. Finding an actual motor with such low Kv is near impossible. I would still prefer a submerged motor though, the bevel gears are finicky buggers when it comes to alignment and adds to the noise.
A few easy optimizations
1. Apply a battery to capture the energy for a more stable motor output
2. Use flexible panels to make the skin of the kayak panels (much more surface area)
And don't forget a Rolls-Royce Trent turbojet.
Honestly, for someone just getting into solar that is an awesome way to show them how sensitive your rig is. I'm sure not all would do that, very interesting. I can appreciate simple because currently I am working with alternative energy and I know how tiring that can be! Rewarding as you know when you have the work finished
A small battery can fix all that, battery would give it consistent speed. Easy fix.
This is impressive William!
Very good achievement of yours!
Wow, a multimeter in a kayak, thats practical engineering! Congratulations.
I really like this concept and you have done a great job designing and making this. Thanks for sharing!
That is very cool, Thinking a possible improvement if you don't want to use a battery. is to use a MPPT charge controller on a Capacitor bank. The Charge controller would prevent the panel voltage from being pulled down to the point that they do not put out much at all. I am very impressed that 150 watts worth of panels would propel that kayak that fast. I really like your experiment.
Looks cool !
And an advantage of being out on a sunny day.
I love how your testing without a battery that setup is great
What's the point of testing without a battery? Batteries are an integral part of solar power collection. It's still solar powered if you put back what you take out of a battery with it.
Dude that's a really nice toy. Thanks for sharing. Pay no attention to negative comments. You're enjoying your sport without contaminating. Hat off.
This is briliant idea, and you're a genius guy dude. 👍
You seem to have come up with a much better design for the
solar panel placement then I had when I built my solar powered system.
This was mostly driven by weight distribution. A solar roof would also be a nice feature for long days on the water. Roofs unfortunately require additional stability, being top-heavy as well as prone to catch the wind. The outriggers would have to be further apart and more buoyancy. Maybe my next project needs to be a catamaran...
Greetings from India. Love the project !!!thanks for sharing !
Wow, That's Amazing. Brilliant Thinking. Many thanks for sharing. 🇬🇧
Hi, William! It great experiment! I think if U can to use other propellers, for the water, then it must increase the speed of run. But it realy great. Sincerely from Russia.
Very nice👍 i was just passing and spotted this good work👍
This is so fricking cool. U my new smartest SA UA-camr.
I've messed with 760 watts of solar running a 30 lbs thrust 12 volt trolling motor. The pannels were all mounted above the canoe then I had a surfboard as an outrigger. I would time how long it took me to pass a leaf in the lake. I'd convert 'feet per second' to miles per hour. I'd do about 3.5 mph. Your 3.8 nautical miles per hours converts to 4.3 - That my friend is Moving! Too Cool, I'm going to see what else you have posted. Good Luck
Thanks Gary. 760W is probably overkill for your motor. A 30lb motor typically draw 30A, i.e. only absorbing 360W. So you can ditch a panel and save some weight. At the end of my other related video you'll see a canoe with around 800w cruise past at close to 5kts. Choosing the correct prop is also important.
@@williamfraser thanks
Congrats from brazil.
Best regards my friend.
Excelent Project go forward.
I think I've heard that if a portion of a solar panel is blocked, the whole thing is basically dead, so thats probably why the power dropped so much. Kinda of like Christmas lights, if one bulb goes out the whole string does
Nice one William
Very nice job!
Maximum speed at the suns highest point....Nice project.
Sounds like a torpedo on a WW2 film! I am well impressed though mate!!
Thanks. My brushless motor is much less noisy, just a pity my microphone died during the tests. Still too loud though, gears contribute a lot to the noise. Working on silent magnetic gears, hermetically sealed.
Aw, cool! I'm just finishing a solar boat, too. :-) Someone linked me to the hackaday article. Good stuff.
Congratulations. We're sailing in a sunny flotilla. George. Poland
Thanks. I had a look at your solar boat, it looks like a really nice setup! What speed do you get in full sun?
Hope you keep working in this project. Please share as much technical information as possible.
I love shit like this, very cool and you've travelled, a long distance
Glad you enjoyed it. The new motor and panel should provide significantly better performance. Just waiting for the gale to blow over and I can get back to testing.
You are my hero.. Bravo !!!
Wow you really save your time paddling
Interesting build. Try different propeller for water. btw, put a few reflector on the side of the solar panel to redirect the sunlight to the panels. It helps boost efficiency.
I'm amazed!
That's really cool!
Wouldnt a battery, charge controller, and a trolling motor be an easier solar setup?
very interesting. and if you turn on a bright lamp during the onset of shade?
Very nice idea
Make a solar trailer for the kayak. It would probably weigh significantly less than your wooden Outrigger system. Totally awesome demonstration!
Not a bad idea! If I tow it at just the right distance behind the kayak it would ride the stern wave with very little drag.
Cool idea! So two aspects I want to add, the first is you can add a small accumulator to have the power under bridges, the second is would be interesting if it could work with hydrofoils (I think it needs more power but it could be comfortable with big waves).
With my weight and that of two large panels, 600W might be enough to fly on foils. It will require a foil of at least 10ft span. The large foil will allow low lift-off speed but will severely limit top speed. Some lightweight flexi panels of equal power will really open up performance options.
Superb!
it is a good concept. you can add more solar panels with bigger support on left and right sides.
Que ideia fantástica, na minha região seria ótimo!
Have a good new year 2020.
George
... solar flotilla ...
Add battery so you are charging when the motor stop.
I would add a battery incase of cloud cover.
I would carry a paddle
@@arnavrevankar444 I always do.
Or even better add some super capasitors
@@TheJohanJonker See my latest video with a brushless motor and supercaps.
Hi and Happy Belated Thanksgiving to you William. Your Solar Kayak is Awesome. I never saw one of these before. Also your filming of this video is quite good too I must add! The color and the body of water you filmed this on Is Quite Breathtaking! The motor on your kayak is not too loud either which I was amazed to hear. You are quite the talented and true sailor and air and water enthusiast. Bravo!
Hi William - your video should be required viewing for anyone looking to install Solar Panels on their roof - not many people are aware of the Weakest Link with regards to shade on Solar Panel Strings and just how that will impact the production over 20 or so years. There are solutions but not for this space...
Solar kayak aside... Your voice is like audible chocolate sir.
Good job 😁
👍
Круто и просто! Beautiful! Gooooood! Hallo from Russia!
Boa velocidade, belo projeto, vai virar uma febre nas vendas. Cuidado com a insolação!!!!!!!!!!👍👍🇧🇷
Obrigado. Esta foi a primeira tentativa. O novo motor e painel ("Solar kayak 2.0") tiveram um desempenho muito melhor.
have you concidered filling the motor tube with minral oil to dissipate the heat to the tube and in turn the water
Great idea
I want one of those!
This is cool no battery stay out all day
Very cool
Another Sling pilot! Glad you enjoyed it. How many hours have you got on the Sling?
Good job
That propeller is intended for high speed use in air. You should use a prop designed for water use.
OK, let's race...ua-cam.com/video/6u-j1gxQRGc/v-deo.html
Actually, model airplane propellers are more efficient in water as well air because they are designed for maximum thrust, not cutting weeds as trolling motor props and to a degree, even regular boat props are.
Excellent
cool project! I was thinking about some supercaps bank to help with "under the bridge" situation, but you had those comments already. i would also add a 12v battery onboard (disconnected), so i can connect it in case of emergancy.
Thank you for sharing
Add a capacitor bank to smooth out the breakup under shade.
Pretty cool. Imagine a scaled up transport container ship as a hybrid saving hundreds of thousands in fuel, and pollution.
get a good set of capacitor... that can store 10 mins+ dive time your all set.....
when the clouds come you can stop charge and go. without good sun your toasted...
even low sun stop wait 30min and go for 15 mint 1 mile full speed
Really, add a capacitor and 35 thumbs up on that?? I guess this is not where electrical engineers hang out. It would require a huge capacitor in order to provide 150 Watts for even 1 minute.
@@DIYDaveT nope...... Capacitor 2.7V 500F Super Farad Capacitance With Protection Board Sets.... this would give one minute and with a set of 12 your all set
www.ebay.com/itm/Farad-Capacitor-2-7V-500F-Super-Farad-Capacitance-With-Protection-Board-Sets-/392387467932
unless u add current limiting circuitry, the cap would dump it's stored charge too quickly. Bat + cap is better.
Fabulous bro
Awesome!
I am ready for the canoe solar powered drag races!
Can you burn solar panels as glass?
Please clarify your question.
Excellent, what I wanted
Nice proyect
Very neat
Running the motor directly from the panels is brutal. You are missing out of a lot output from the panels! You don't necessarily need mppt, as you load is constant, but you need a motor controller so you can load the panels at a level that produces most power, the highest speed. which will be when the panels are at their rated load voltage. I'm sure your voltage reading is correct, you are simply forcing your panels into the ground, losing 3/4 of your solar power. Also a sizable electrolytic capacitor near the motor, will help a little and produce stable voltage readings, if that is a problem. A brushed motor produces electrical noise in the wiring. A reverse diode across the motor terminals to recover back EMF, reduces noise further but prevents you from reversing thrust.
I was losing some power, but not that much. The motor was revving pretty high despite being loaded, so voltage could not have dropped by that much below MPP. The key was in selecting a propeller size that would load the motor to its maximum efficiency rpm while drawing just enough current to also load the panels to their max power. With the sun at an angle the maximum panel power would have been around 130W. When calculating backwards from the propulsive power required by the boat at that speed, taking into account prop efficiency as well, I must have been getting around 110W from the panels. I had no trouble getting voltage readings while testing the motor in a bucket, so noise could not have been the issue. I most likely just hooked up the meter to the wrong wires. I am building my next solar boat now with all the bells and whistles: brushless motor, mppt, smart panels, efficient hull. Next race is 7 Dec....
Very cool Brown
Should add a small AGM deep cycle battery may be a 35ah it would stay charge and not have shade problem
Хорошая идея с передвижением по воде!
Amazing
Each panel needs to be fitted with diodes to eliminate resistance caused by a less performing panel. And yes, a decent little deep cycle battery like lipo.
I've actually thought about rigging solar and small windmill power to my canoe !
Do you know of Project Windvinder? A simple windmill turning an underwater prop. It can "motor" straight into a headwind.
Very good
Here's a good idea build one with a small sail that would be cool then you'd have a yaksal
It's amazing....
take panels above your body, in that case you have the shade. Second, I suggest that motors have to be mounted in front of kayak, and if you make that they could rotate, steering with them is possible.
Bravo...bro
Nice job sir ji
Definitely put the rigger in outrigger. Somehow love the idea but hate the inelegance, and especially hate that whine. I do see the market though for paras and quads. The idea of a disabled vet being able to kayak appeals to me strongly.
Your voltage drop is caused by a current surge. The motor draws the current but is a low resistance path, which aliviates the pressure the panels are producing to drive the current. You're getting the same power, there just isn't enough resistance to be able to measure the potential energy. It just all turns into mechanical. Also, with panels wired in parallel, if you reduce the voltage coming from one panel (shade), the other two panels will dump a reverse current into it. A diode on each panel would fix this, wiring in series would not. In series, the panels will produce a higher overall voltage, but shouldn't be able to supply the current to your low resistance motor due to the high internal resistance in the panels. The people commenting on the prop are right as well, you need a three or four blade hydro-prop as that air prop is probably flexing to nearly flat and letting water slide past. This would provide a higher resistance out of the motor, reducing your current and letting you read voltage if you wanted. Right now, you're just running amps through windings not meant for them, if it's a brushed motor. If it's brushless, then the energy is moving the same way and tearing up the semiconductors in the speed controller. Overall, a proper propeller and some diodes, possible a battery as well, will make it a ton more efficent. That's an engineer's advice at least.
That was a good invention no need Batery
Add doiode and capacitor, it will stabilize voltage
I hear a South African accent -> I press the like button
Very good and nice sur
Nice 👍
If you put an MPPT between the panels and the motor it will hold the panels at their most efficient - alternatively if you put a cheap PWM controller between panel and motor you can adjust it so the panels are only pulled down to their max power point tracking which will be between 16.5 and 18v for 36 cell panels - the way you have it now you are stalling the panels - your tweaking the prop to alter the load on them - very interesting project
I have a small MPPT that can handle one panel's current. Might work well on a small kiddies boat. A typical PWM charge controller only reduces the voltage but does not step up the current to keep power out equal to power in. I am busy working on a buck converter that can do that. All power electronics have their own losses, so the cheapest option is actually to just add another panel. The additional available current should be enough to keep the panels, the motor and the prop at their respective max efficiencies.
@@williamfraser If you put a voltmeter on your panels and a cheap PWM controller from the panels you can adjust the throttle till you bring down the panel open circuit voltage to its MPP - It works we know we used it on our solar car at Silverstone & won the Shell car with the simple expedient of sticking a pointer on an analog voltmeter at the MPP voltage and adjusting the controllers till the arrows meet - we used the same principle on our canoe RA - Its the voltage going to motor that dictates its speed - it will draw as much current as it can to try and achieve that speed and if it cant will pull down the voltage - PWM controller is a variable buck converter with a few caps to smooth out the surges on the input - the motors inductance should smooth the outlet - honest try it with old style voltmeter and cheap ebay 20a controller
Use a prop made for a trolling motor. It’s more efficient in water. Or better yet just use a 12v Trolling motor and prop setup. Nice build 👍.
It is counter intuitive, but the opposite is true. I first got the idea from someone who deliberately replaced his trolling motor's prop with an APC 10x6E. He achieved better top speed and did so with less power. Trolling props are thick brutes, designed to pull heavy boats at slow speed and survive all kinds of underwater impact and weeds.
if u add a battery, the voltage to the motors will b constant
This is fantastic William, well done. Can we expect Kayak power-kits in future?
Why knot!
William Fraser I’m working on a rudder mount kit and would like to collaborate. I posted some short videos if you’re interested.
That’s really impressive wow 😮
Interesting that you're using a model airplane propeller rather than a propeller design for water I would imagine that the efficiency is way off because of that
I totally agree. These props are designed for specific mediums. Air and water act very differently. Beyond that even, you should really look for one that’s tuned for the rpm range you expect to get. And that can change drastically when switching props. Do you will most likely have to make a guess, but an underwater prop, then realize the rpms are off, and then buy another one
Exactly what I was thinking. A model boat prop or one for a trolling motor would be better. Also a direct drive brushless motor would be more efficient. Pretty cool though!
To get good propeller efficiency you need a large diameter. Conventional boat props of sufficient diameter have way too much blade area and are designed with much higher available shaft torque in mind. With sufficient gear reduction it should be possible to run a boat prop on my limited power. The brushed motor is only efficient at high rpm (>15k) and its gearbox has a 9:1 reduction. Even so the torque required by the slender apc prop is a little too much and loads the motor beyond its peak efficiency.
@@williamfraser indeed but what about slightly smaller scale 3d printed ?
@@Midnight17925 What I REALLY want to get printed is a custom surface drive prop!
Nice
need a battery in the loop to buffer and help with bridges etc
Или конденсатор.
I imagine a little rubber on the attachment points for the motor would reduce the surprisingly loud motor noise.
Absolutely. I was able to compare the noise levels in the workshop, with and without the mount clamped to a table. A wooden hull makes a very good soundbox!
great video dude
no good in ireland we don't get sun only rain 🤣😂😂
I feel you. Just add larger panels, they don't need direct sun to make some power. Last Sunday was overcast, see my new video how the boat accelerated until the electronics failed.
@@williamfraser 👍