KEVIN SMITH'S DOCTOR STRANGE MoM REVIEW (and MARC BERNARDIN'S TOO!) - FMB LIVE 5/11/22
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
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Kevin Smith and Marc Bernardin make an appointment with Doctor Strange! Expect a multiverse of SPOILERS in this one! The Moon Knight finale and news are also discussed. Enjoy!
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Marc at the Club 33 : 3:30
Chilisleep Sponsor : 11:35
Moon Knight Finale : 16:25
Kev is a positive guy! : 26:22
News : new Doctor Who : 44:00
Picard talk : 52:36
News : Batman podcast become #1 : 58:17
News : Goerge Pérez Passing : 1:00:29
GoT spinoff, Kenobi, Avatar and others : 1:10:16
May the 4th event : 1:27:05
Doctor Strange talk : 1:36:11
my man
You're who we wait for
Thank you
My Mannnnnnnnnnnnnn
How are you doing Brotha ? Good I hope 🙏
Thank you for the time stamps, My Dude. You are MY hero!!!!
I’ve been a fan of this show from the beginning and I used to look forward to it. Lately, it’s become as enjoyable as a dentist visit. I’ve been to funerals that were more upbeat than this. I’ve also been on some bad blind dates that I would much rather relive than watching this show.
Kevin is so ebullient, so positive, and has so much joy for film (and Marvel films in particular) and Marc just brings everything to a halt. I understand he’s a professional writer and he’s entitled to his opinions-and I might even agree with him on some points-but he’s such a Debbie Downer that I don’t know if I can continue watching this on a regular basis.
Personally, I thought Moon Knight was brilliant. The twists and turns of it, the Egyptian mythology, depicting a character with Dissociative Identity Disorder-it resonated with me. And as a Latino, I was proud to see Oscar Isaac do an amazing job bringing to life a character that I’ve loved since I picked up Moon Knight #1 in 1980 when I was just a freshman in high school.
I thought Multiverse of Madness was fun as hell. I was expecting Kevin to revel in how awesome it was. It’s the ultimate Marvel stoner movie, what’s not love?
Speaking of love, that’s what that movie was all about. Searching for love to replace what was lost, whether it’s children or a romantic relationship. C’mon guys, it wasn’t that complicated nor should it be.
I prefer them a thousand times over Picard season 2, the show that Marc worked on. Sure, maybe he didn’t have complete control, but to participate in a project that basically rips off the plots of both First Contact and Voyage Home that are devoid of what made those stories fun, is a big miscalculation in my book. It’s dull, hackneyed, drivel.
I’m sorry, but that’s just how I see it. The ego on display doesn’t match what was put on the canvas.
So, good luck to you guys. No hard feelings, but this has become a colossal waste of time.
YES! I feel exactly the same.
This podcast is supposed to be fun, just 2 geeks, usually surrounded by a bunch of other geeks in a bar, talking about geeky shit. Marc just sucks all the fun out of it. I don't even always disagree with him but it's just the way he goes about.
It's arrogance and ego, and it's only getting worse the more successful he gets which is weird because nothing in his growing resume warrants such arrogance and ego.
I can't think of another writer (or actor or director or...) who is so continuously and mercilessly critical of other writer's work, especially when their own work is so mediocre. It's so baffling to me.
You're right, if he wasn't involved in the flawed Picard season 2, he would be ripping it to shreds.
It's so bad that Kevin even went on a lengthy tangent about why he likes this stuff and isn't as critical as Marc.
Kevin - you should have gone first. The bald dude is downright hostile to the point Kevin just ignored him in the last 15 minutes because he kept attacking the movie. Watch and enjoy the movie as much as you want Kevin - wish us fans can a watch a movie with you and enjoy talking about it.
The fragility on show here is so tragic...
@@AllInTheGame01 It doesn’t have to be. A show called Fatman Beyond should be a fun celebration of all things relating to comic books and film. It shouldn’t be a dour, negative, low energy film criticism show. If that’s what Marc wants to do, Kevin should let him do his own spin-off show, where he can talk about whatever he wants. I would rather FB go back to being an interview show where Kevin can let his guests talk at length at what they’re working on. Having recently listened again to his interviews with Neal Adams, all I can say is that those were a helluva lot more entertaining.
I actually like Marc, but he should understand that some people probably don’t care to hear all the things he would have done differently. Armchair directing is fucking boring. Honestly, I doubt the majority of the audience gives a fuck.
I remember hearing him criticize Wandavision and listening to how he would have handled it and I was unimpressed. Part of the fun of that show was the mystery of why she was living in a different sitcom reality from show to show and he would have done away with it! That was one of the most original ideas that I’ve seen Marvel do and it’s the reason why that show was popular with fans and normies alike.
Marc sucks. To put it simply. I’ve stayed away for the same reason. His criticism’s don’t hold any ground because they’re just rooted from his perspective. And he just never like anything. Who the heck wants to listen to someone who doesn’t like anything. Get this guy out of here lol.
As someone who has lost their daughter, I can tell you I would do anything to get her back. Wanda’s motivation is completely valid from my point of view.
This review was the definition of mansplaning. My 76 yr old mother said that she would rip the multiverse apart to get her kids back. That was the point. Wanda irrationality is based on motherhood. Just marvelized. Lol
My condolences. May she rest in peace...
Sorry for your loss, and as a father of 3 boys who has also lost 3 others to miscarriage, as a parent, Wanda pulls me through this film with tears and rage and complete understanding.
Well it’s valid, and then you add the layer which I strangely think SO MANY people reviewing this film has missed .. she is corrupted by the Darkhold. You can literally SEE the corruption in her fingertips.
I think losing a child and the possibilities presented by her powers being further augmented by the Darkhold would cause anyone to walk down a similar path.
On top of all that, the part where she says something about having to kill Vision and having it be for nothing was really sad too.
Kevin nothing is wrong with you. Your inner child is alive and well. I liked it too. It started strong and ended strong lagged incthe middle. Marc isn't wrong either he just looks at things from a more mechanical angle.
Marc wants a dramatic movie, which is fair, but these marvel flicks are amusement rides. I think you gotta appreciate these flicks for what they are, not what you imagine in your head.
1:46:26 i wholeheartedly disagree. These stories aren't disconnected. Everything points to Kang and the multiverse. We're only getting our first glimpses, like Thanos in the mid-credits of Avengers 2012, so of course things aren't making sense yet. Shang-Chi's Ten Rings are a cosmic mystery, the Celestials are cosmic beings, and at least 4 Marvel projects are multiverse related (Loki, NWH, MoM, and Quantumania). We also have two that are deity related (Moon Knight and Thor 4). After their stunning record culminating in Endgame, I don't know why people still doubt their storytelling capabilities. I have full faith that Marvel is going to tie everything currently out there into something amazing.
I think people forget that the first marvel films were completely independent until The Avengers film brought them together.
People keep expencting these films to tie together without a dedicated film tying them together. I don’t think that’s reasonable.
@@JazGalaxy exactly. People have forgotten what it's like to not know in advance how everything ties together. This is a whole new puzzle with completely different puzzle pieces. We won't know what the big picture is until much further down the line.
Marc often makes some good points. But his idea that Layla would release the random trapped gods while they are still trying to deal with Ammit, is idiotic. Why would she actively increase the potential risk to the Earth? Wouldn’t make a lick of sense. And her choosing to become an avatar was a necessity, so made total sense she changed her mind. But stared ur was temporary, though she probably changed her mind after seeing what a role model she is.
Anyone who actually PAID ATTENTION to the movie knows and understands the motivations of both Wanda AND Strange 🤣
I swear, just because people watch a movie DOESN'T mean they actually pay attention. That is evident with Marc 😆
Agreed
How many times did “Are you happy?” come up. The whole Christine Palmer resolution was also pretty obvious but somehow Strange had no arc?
Now, just keep in mind, the guy that was a part of the "Picard" writing team is criticizing the "Dr. Strange and MoM" writing...
What I got from MOM is Stehpen doesnt have to be the one "holding the knife" all the time. He doesnt always have to be the savior and trust other people and their abilities as well.
Agree💯 interesting that mac and kevin didn't see that...
Wrong. He's the same guy at then end. He's still holding the knife.
I disagree , steven fixing his broken watch that represents his past is him moving forward. He also bowing Too wong at the end of the film is a showcase, of him not "holding the knife"
@@alphanerd7221 He's absolutely
not. If he was the same guy He would have took America's Power and killed Wanda and save the day himself instead of trusting and believing in her.
@@jaytee26tube Sure, if he was the same guy he would have done the thing he knows doesn't work. Great argument.
Kevin's addressing the way the Marvel projects are so nostalgic for him is exactly what's deep inside my soul for all Marvel's projects as well. Thank you Kevin for speaking for us who needed that explanation that is what us older fans have been wanting to scream from the mountain tops why I love this ERA of movies. Even a few other comic book projects. But mostly Marvel. I felt your words, Kevin
I feel like a lot of people are missing the boat on doctor strange he's a weird dude he can't form lasting meaningful connections and he tries to help every kid in need because he couldn't save his sister. He's not a leader, he's not a typical hero, he's a broken dude in multiple ways trying to do his best. That's his character.
and it's shit...
@@stuartstogdill2406 Do you mean the movie or his character?
Dr Strange clearly had an arc. He was the guy who felt he had to make the ultimate decision. It didnt matter who hurt (or killed), or what the collateral damage is. Which is why he couldn't love Christine. He was afraid to let someting unpredictable like love in. He learned this movie that trust in others makes you stronger. I dont know how Mark missed that since it was clearly shown and stated in the movie. The beginning was a direct setup for the end. Thats called and arc.
The arc of the entire film rests upon how you deal with love, loss and the subsequent guilt. Dr Strange deals with it the right way for him, Wanda deals with it the wrong way for everyone.
Yeah, it's clearly about Strange having control issues. His arc is so simple. They keep asking him if he's happy with all of the power that he has. Also, the moment that makes his arc clear is him deciding to trust America Chavez with beating wanting rather than taking her powers (the fatal flaw of the other Dr. Strange who died).
Also, the Illuminati sequence isn't pointless. It's clearly about what happens when Strange (again) tries too hard to take everything in his control. It's the story of a workaholic basically. It's an element of his hubris he never took away in the last movie. Sidenote: his bowing and acknowledging Wong at the end was such a nice way to make clear that he grew and learnt to trust others, transitioning him into teaching at Kamar Taj.
Similarly, he makes the sacrifice to the darkness that the ancient one did in the first movie. But he does it all to tell America Chavez how to beat Wanda. He uses the dark power but for a good purpose and humbles himself.
The main theme of the movie is that the multiverse will drive you mad if you keep thinking about what could have been (Wanda, alternate versions of Strange have this problem). So you need to relinquish control and trust other people.
I honestly feel like the arc is so obvious yet people are missing it because the themes are told very indirectly. To me, it was obvious what his growth as a character was.
Marc doesn't watch the same movies as the rest of us. They start the same, but them Marc imagination kicks in and he starts watching the movie he would have made!
@@jn4126 The writer's curse I suppose.
The movie wasn't perfect, but it subverted my expectations a few times. Dr. Strange definitely had an arc, but I think everyone was expecting a universe hopping cameo vehicle. Instead we got a pretty unique little movie with blockbuster effects and big characters that pushes Strange into his final phase: elder statesmen.
I feel like this movie had 3 goals:
-Teach Strange he has to trust others.
-Show full power Scarlet Witch and then temporarily take her off the board because she's super OP now.
-Tease incursions and build upon the Secret Wars foundation Loki started.
I enjoyed it, but was way too high on edibles.
So Marc straight up missed that the character story was about Stephen learning to lowering his walls and figuring out that his inability to do so in the past is what led to his current state of unhappiness?🤔🤔🤔
He misses many things.
And also learning that his decisions aren’t always the best, “in the grand calculus of the multiverse, your death means more than your life” is something he repeatedly said in NHW & at the beginning of this film. By the end, he has the same mentality as Spider-Man did in that “maybe we can change their fate” instead of letting them die. Strange grew in many ways
To address a few things: In my opinion, the entirety of WandaVision was about Wanda processing her grief over Vision (and her brother in a smaller way) and finally coming to terms with their deaths. That's why she wasn't looking for Vision or her brother in Multiverse of Madness. That grief has already been processed. She never got the chance to process losing her children, real or not. They were there, then they were gone. She never got answers as to exactly where they came from or where they went. There was no grieving process. That's why she was so hellbent on finding them.
Also, i think she wants her kids to be real and not just something she conjured out of magic that’s why she’s looking for a universe where her kids are actually there..
Spoiler alert the movie had some rushed areas as it was and there was no time for some vision/Wanda drama in this flick.
@@devilangelgirl427 Yeah, she is strangely fine with kidnapping folks.
Also to add to your point, I don’t think Wanda knew how she created her kids in the first place. Everything in Wandavision came from grief, and want but not really knowing how she was doing it due to her inexperience. Also if she creates new kids, what if they’re not the same ones.
She's also reading the darkhold at the end of WandaVision
As critical as Marc is about every single fucking thing ever...his short film better be the biggest and best and culture changing thing ever recorded.
Marc the way you wanted the movie to go would have stomped over the whole point and ruined the story they were trying to tell. The whole story was Dr. Strange not being the Lead not being the one in control and making the decision. To have the Lead become secondary was a brilliant choice that most movies wouldn't risk.
Even the movie Jack Reacher couldn't resist making the lead the primary focus halfway through the movie instead of backing up the other characters.
I love this film. There is so much stuff that is incredibly smart and no one seems to be mentioning it. Sinister Strange (the one with the Dark Hold) is what Doctor Strange would become if he was like Wanda. Both wanted something and traveled through universes to try and get it and used the Dark Hold as means to an end.
Doctor Strange learns from all these films to not “be the one to hold the knife” and that it’s ok to not seek all the control, he bows to Wong signalling he is fine no longer being the Sorcerer Supreme and he lets America keep her powers instead of being like Defender Strange and trying to take them. Learning that a great way to help people is to watch from a far and have enough confidence to know that they will be fine.
Scarlet Witch just wants her kids but is trapped and manipulated by the Dark Hold. She only looses when she is comforted by Wanda, her normal self, her human self. The most heartbreaking moment in the film is after Wanda dreamt of being that mum and even physically becoming her when she finally came face-to-face with the version of herself she literally dreamed of she couldn’t see herself anymore in that version and that’s when she realised that she was wrong.
She takes away a child’s parent (Reed Richards) as a way to get closer to being a parent to hers which is maybe the most horrific thing she did in the whole film.
Perfectly said 👏
Exactly. The purpose of illuminati besides demonstrating Wandas stength was to show how even in this universe Strange always wants to "holds the knife" . Other christine says this and evil dr strange showed this too. All these things made him understand himself better.
And for Wanda even before darkhold corruption. She has endured a lot. From where she came from. The Stark bomb. Hydra. Brother dying. killing vision. Thanos killing vision. Having to let her hex kids die. Then these dreams every night. How she came to this point is very understandable. I like how she was stopped in the end. It makes sense
That being said the cliche woman goes mad and kills herself.. maybe isn't the best portrayal these days. Surprised they did tht. But we all know she fine xD
@@piusdoe8984 Wanda did give me Kingpin from Into The Spider-Verse vibes. Villain loses family, villain wants family back and finds a way to do so, villain finally gets that goal and breathily reunite with their family but the family see the monster they have become for the sad reveal. The knot difference is the ending here is more Spider-Man 2 with the villain collapsing their third act structure on top of them as their way of redeeming themselves.
I know that sounds like I’m being mean to the film I’m not but I did notice it and it made me chuckle 😂😂
@@liamhemstock2286 The huge difference is that Kingpin chose his path. Wanda was seduced down her path until the Darkhold took hold and controlled her like it had Agnes and the others. Using the motivation of "Your children" to do what the book wanted which was increase her own power.
Please don't let Mark go first anymore. Because he tampers down Kevin's excitement and we want to see that before Mark tears everything apart
I agree. Especially since marc’s ranting are often so goofy. They often relate only to him, are based on what he wants a story to be rather than what it is, and and are often based around trying to rewrite something rather than like it. And when he DOES like something? It’s often because of diversity and has nothing to do with the actual story at all.
It makes me so sad to see how excited Kevin gets about something and then his face falls and he looks so distraught when Marc pokes holes in everything he likes.
Agreed I’m getting so sick of his opinion he literally hates everything I’m a fan of his writing and I think he’s a smart guy but like whenever it’s a review I legit just skip now because it’s always “meh could’ve been better”
I love that after years of watching Kev I can tell what his thoughts on something is before he says it. I’m a pretty big kev smith fan. Marc is the perfect balance to him on a podcast.
Not me, I surprised he wasn’t WOWED by The Batman.
Please never let Marc go first. You can watch as the sparkle and hope dies in your eyes Kevin. He sucks all your fun out and not in a fun way. Kills the entire mood. At least let us enjoy your gushing for 5 mins before he makes you question how you should feel about a MOVIE made for ENTERTAINMENT. Marc seems to watch things just to pick apart
Marc's critiques are on point.
@@guyincognito8440 if I am going to spend 90-150 mins of my time, I am going to look for things to like rather than dislike. I will take anything over nothing
@@bidhrohi12 they were definitely opinions
It's not like it was a good movie.
I'm just so tired of Marc's negativity. I'm all for creative criticism, but Marc reviews everything as if he was the original salty writer and was rejected and replaced. That's not to say he's ALWAYS wrong, but if he's going to shit on everything, he should try not willfully neglecting parts of the movie so that he can complain that he could've done it better. There's nothing wrong with saying something is good but then also saying "but it also would have been really cool if they had done it like this _______". It feels like he's less worried about reviewing the movie and more worried about trying to prove to viewers/listeners that he's a better writer. If Marc is such a fantastic writer then where are all his earth shatteringly profound writing credits? I used to love this show but sadly this will be my last episode.
I agree. That's one of the reasons I've unsubscribed to a few Marvel channels i once subscribed to. Too many opinions on "What I would've done is this..." rather than focusing on the movie or TV show we got. At the very least Marc is a professional writer so i respect his fan fiction more than most but hearing rando's describe how they think they could improve the MCU just turns me off.
So what you’re saying is Marc is the perfect villain 🦹♂️
I love Doctor Stranger's line to Christine at the end that sums up the movie: "It's not that I don't want to take care of someone, or have someone take care of me... I just get scared." Chills in the theater. He and Wanda have struggled through the film with getting what they want, taking control of their situations and getting the people they care about back in their lives, and Wanda is a symbol of the over-controlling mother in a movie where scary is the name of the game, so that line just tied everything up perfectly for me.
Yet, I wish the crazy mother trope wouldn't have been used to reduce Wanda/Scarlet Witch/Leader of Avengers West/Omega Mutant into a caricature. That was just an easy plot device and more could've been done with everyone, including her character.
@@mismamari. I get why people feel that way, but for me I bought the very Evil Deadish plot device of the evilest book in the world corrupting her enough for me to go with the rest of the movie. Something I like about it is that it's simple, like despite travelling the multiverse and taking on a lot of cameos etc I think it's simple enough that a kid can follow it, which is important for superhero movies since the main character is a guy with a magic cape. Wanda was the antagonist but I always understood where she was coming from, and I like that in the end it isn't about defeating her, it's the old multiverse lesson of "it's good enough to know that there is a world where things are good for X"
@Mari
I don't think it's the crazy mother troupe,but someone who couldn't possibly lose ANYONE ELSE.
Parents,brother, husband... now kids...I don't think anyone could handle it and the Darkhold used her anger and feelings of betrayal.
@@mismamari. Nonsense. Wanda got to be THE most well developed villian in MCU history and Olsen got to play THE most complex and nuanced movie role in years. And killed it.
People demanding that all female characters have to be perfect at everything is utterly ruining film.
It reminds me of the people
Complaining that Bryce Dallas Howard’s character in Jurassic World, (young, rich, ultra-successful, smart, pretty, powerful, and well-liked) wasn’t a good character because she wasn’t also immediately good with children (which was meant to echo Allan Grant being bad with children in the first film)
Whatever these people want women to be on film isn’t “cinema”. It’s like some sort of weird reverse-porn.
Wanda was the PERFECT villain for this movie! There were kids coming out of the movie crying because of how scary she was in the film! I myself was saying WTF are they going to have to do to defeat her?
Convince her that the Brotherhood is bad after she joins them?
How in the hell did both of them magically forget that Wanda doesn't know how she made the hex? She had no clue how she made her kids. She can't do it again.
Agree… it was a LITERAL explosion of magic from immense grief that generated the children and a utopian (i.e tv sitcom) reality!
@@schmidtfam04 but anger and feeling betrayed, actually, from her childhood to now... aren't grief.
I believe the Darkhold used the raw emotions and spurred them on...
The book had no use for the kids other than to bait Wanda,and after losing literally everyone she had called family it was the last straw.
Thought goes out the window...
She's believing herself to be JUSTIFIED in her quest... but it's the book exacting that heavy price Strange spoke of.
We got to see how incredibly dangerous to the fabric of all realities a corrupted Nexus being really is.
Not knowing how to do something and not being able to are totally different things. I don't know how to fly a plane. I can't fly.
What a shock, Kevin loved Moon Knight and Marc didn’t.
I like Kevin's fandom reactions to things. Marc always thinks he could have done a better job writing a project with rare exception. It's not discernment. It's nit-picking.
Honestly, I haven't heard a single rewrite or take of his that wouldn't have made it at least twice as good. It's ok to like what you like but he knows how to write things that make sense and make things satisfying.
i have zero respect for Marc.. few years ago during first Dr Strange movie an asian screenwriter popped up on my Twitter feed criticizing Marvel for white washing the Ancient one and i pointed out that though i see her point the character in the comics was very stereotypical looking and probably something Marvel isn't proud of so they went another way and cast the incredibly talented Tilda Swinton and made the character appear non binary (the bigger clothes shaved head, im actually pretty sure the character is never referred to as he or she, it was actually very forward thinking in my eyes)... well Marc chimed in and said he agreed and wrote this entire article about how hollywood never does this to a white character and cited the movie The Martian and their casting of Chiwetel Ejiofor even though his character in the novel which the film is based off of is white and how the change didnt affect the film all and he also gave a stellar performance... Fair enough i agree he killed it in that role but i said in regards to Hollywood never changing the race of white characters how come your not mentioning Baron Mordo? A White character for a half a century, he was cast ironically to be played by Chiwetel Ejiofor the same actor ur using as an example. Not one word was made about him being black, and he killed that part. Well Marcs response to me was that well he was done arguing with me bc he was never gonna feel bad about a white male actor losing a part. This struck me so gross... A) it wasn't what the convo was about B) once his point was proven flat, he immediately responded with a racist remark... Nw u can say this isn't racist or whatever, but to me if I as a white man said that exact same sentence and just switched one word around so that it read "I was never gonna feel bad about a black male actor losing a part" everyone justifiably would go WOOOOOOOOAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!! I was a huge Marc Bernardin fan until that day, after that i just feel sad.
@@jeffthibodeaux6137 his writing is aight
Kevin makes me excited about things, Marc takes all the fun out of it. It's easy to pick apart everything, but I prefer to focus on the things I actually like.
Kevin and Marc are basically the two extremes that's most of us exist between.
Kevin has always been way too polite and complimentary to Bernardine. He now believes that he's as good a writer as Kevin has always hyperbolically exclaimed. He's not though. Don't take my word for it, go watch the episodes of anything he's written. No Arc for Dr. Strange? Does know how an arc works? Plus, he doesn't understand hero archetype. Of course Layla didn't want to be a hero. Reluctant heroes make the best heroes.
at an hour and ten minutes in, and y'all are eulogizing peeps. Gonna make me cry. Mark wiping his eyes as BAMPH MAN recounts his Norm! is very sweet. Big hugs to you all. My condolences for your personal losses, and long live Perez. :)
I think they both missed the fact that the Darkhold twisted Wanda’s desire to be with her kids into an evil/destructive form of that desire.
I also came out of the theater wondering about her motivation until remembering this. She just got corrupted by a demonic book. Like the monkey paw, it was never going to show her nice and easy ways to have her kids back.
Thats the thing EVERYONE isn't getting, so many people I've heard talk about this movie say that her evil came out of nowhere. I'm like "every time she's in a film something HORRIBLE happens to her", it makes sense to me that she'd go full evil witch after a certain point even without the evil book
@@NTWoo95 the takeaway? is how (we) dwell in a judeo-xtian-islamic dominated REALITY. Ibrahimic lore and culture drives our puerile fantasies. EVERYthing we do. ca la vie, n'est ce pas...:))
They missed so bad that they lost subscribers.
Man. Everyone missing this fact. It's honestly as if it's the first time people have heard about the Darkhold or just weren't paying attention.
Wandas mental. Being where it was especially made her vulnerable. After vision dying twice. Her kids gone. Brother dead. I mean come on
Always entertaining watch fellas. George Perez was the greatest. Not just as an artist but as a human being. Everyone that has meet him has a great story to tell about him....and here's mine. Lol. Years ago there was a small local con by me. George was the main headliner. I should in line to get some sigs and there were so many people that I wasted half the con in line and the con was about to finish and he wasn't going to be able to sign everyone stuff that was left waiting. So he asked his assistant if he had time before his flight, he did. So he told everyone that was still in line that he would setup a table outside the auditorium after the con and he would sign everything we had. I was able to get my Crisis on Infinite Earths 1 - 12 the whole run signed and a picture taken with him. Just an amazing person that will be missed by the entire community. 👊🏼
I think the key to Dr Strange in this movie is that he doesn't know who he is himself - he hasn't figured out what his principles are, and barely acknowledges that he isn't happy, let alone the reasons for it.
He's going through the motions of doing what he thinks he should expect of himself, rather than figuring out what it is he actually wants, so he can do that.
He makes some big steps through the movie - he confronts the fact that he isn't happy, and that (while he probably is genuinely happy for Christine) he's unhappy about being alone - that he loves Christine, and would prefer if her happiness meant being with him. And he takes a huge step forward by stepping back - in the end, he's not the one to save the day, not even the one to figure out how to save the day: instead, he lets go, takes the leap of faith, and trusts America to be the one to use her own powers to face Wanda - and it's America who realises that the only way to get through to Wanda is to confront her with what she thinks she wants and force her to see the price she's paying.
Oh Marc, you remind me of the food critic in Ratatouille.....Having a Ying to someone's Yang in this format of a show is a good thing but MAN Kevin Smith is more in line with how I view this genre and medium. I'm glad I haven't lost that and I appreciate it even more going through this geek/comic Renaissance so do speak being a father of 3. It adds a whole new level to the moments I've had on this MCU journey.
Lol Marc is so jaded it's hilarious. But whatever I thought multiverse of madness was amazing and I loved it
I swear Marc goes into these movies with blinders on and already has his review ready before even watching these movies.
Most of us easily grasped what the story was about and the motives for the characters. I don't care to know what Marc has actually written, but I bet it's dry.
Marc’s writing & ideas are very questionable as well lol
I appreciate Marc's opinion, but I disagree entirely. That is why I love movies, they are all subjective. I saw that Marc's name was behind Picard and that show got obliterated by most of the viewing audience. But I do not know how much he was involved in that show though.
@@swizard0922 It's funny how internet haters assume because you got on the internet and heard from two dozen other people that agree with you that the viewing audience agrees. people like that show. Paramount doesn't keep paying the big bucks to make it because people aren't watching.
Kevin hit the nail on the head, on why many people had trouble with this movie. It is a good movie, but many people had this vision in their mind of what this movie SHOULD have done, but did not do. Movies are not made to your vision, but who ever the screenwriters , directors, actors agree to make. I would suggest people go re-watch this movie, and you will see how good it is without your preconceived notions.
The Dr strange journey was around him needing to be the guy who holds the knife. By the end he had to let go and let America defeat the scarlet witch
That sounds dumb, what's wrong with being in control if what you are doing is saving everyone and only you can do it. I say give that person all the confidence and control they need to save everyone.
I thought it was a little funny that Marc cited ultron when talking about how disconnected multiverse of madness felt. Isn't ultron the movie that was universally criticized for relying too much on building the interconnected universe rather than telling its own story? I think the grand tapestry has just gotten bigger and harder to see the shape of for now. Multiverse of madness was a smaller scale story than I expected too, but I loved that about it. There was a vague multiversal threat, but I liked that the whole movie was about being a good doctor and saving America Chavez's life. In a way it was the ultimate rebuttal to Thanos' extreme utilitarian ethics. Also, I understand anyone who says the three main characters had simplistic or underdeveloped character arcs, but I can't understand how anyone could say they didn't have them.
Wanda and Stephen had a lot going on. America, unfortunately, though plenty likable, was mostly just a plot device, and less a character.
I agree 100%. Marvel fans are spoiled nowadays and can't see the forest for the trees. This movie was a building block in the multiverse saga, not an Endgame level event in itself.
I never got that sense, but it did just feel like an iron man movie with everyone else in it
Age of Ultron was criticized because it sucked
@@Splintz4daWintz i disagree, i loved it. I actually wasn't aware anyone disliked it until recently.
I find the most recent episodes much more enjoyable when I skip Marc’s reviews. He just sucks the fun out of everything.
And that’s probably why Kevin Feige doesn’t invite them to premieres..🤔🤭
I'm with Kevin on Moon Knight.
I didn't mind Khonshu did the kaiju fighting at the end...I mean..it was a battle between GODS...why and HOW would and COULD Moon Knight end up fighting Ammit..??
the score's great (the best among the D+'s Marvel shows), the writing's pretty tight, the directing's great..and the ACTING..again the best compared to the other D+'s Marvel shows so far.
actually...come to think of it...I wanna see a movie starring Oscar Isaac and Elizabeth Olsen now...they're MCU's current top acting titans.
Moon Knight was good, but I think Marc saying he wasn't emotionally invested is a result of it only being 6 episodes. It feels like it was over too quick.
@@lonelyone That's my one big criticism of most of the MCU and Star Wars shows. 6 episodes isn't enough, 8 would be significantly better. With 6, by the time you really get into the show and see were it might head, it's basically over.
I had problems with the finale of moon knight, but the fact that the main character didn't fight a giant alligator was not one of them. Was really confused when Marc suggested that would have made it better...
@@goflowolfog9833 The implication being the main character of the show, the one that the show is named after, should be in the spot light of his shows finale. And this is Marvel, if the writer wants a street level hero fighting a god and winning, there is going to be a street level character fighting a god and winning. And Moon Knight is a bit more then a street level character.
@@hesharu I get the implication, i just found that complaint to be surprising. I felt like the episode was much more focused on moon knight fighting people and the giant god fight was literally happening in the background. My own complaints about the finale were that Layla becoming s full on superhero felt cheesy and unnecessary, Mark bringing Steven back with the power of love or whatever was dumb and too easy, the episode wrapped up too quickly and didn’t tell us anything about Mark’s life after the events of the show, and the shift in tone from the previous episode was jarring.
Story of WandaVision was overcoming a grief. Bringing Vision back or seek for him will negate all that arc from series. So, its ok not to go after Vision. Yes, she made up her kids using magic but she has a line in the film saying that it is a miracle each when women give birth anyway. So, Vision is gone, she was dealing with grief in series, at the end her children were gone and she looked for ways to bring them back, so Darkhold which corrupted her. Makes perfect sense.
Stop using logic! This is the Internet!
My thoughts exactly..kids were created from a very pure place.... grief.
She's been losing family since childhood,the kids were the last straw....
And she never dreamed 2 new kids...but variants of her kids that were happy and Alive.... somewhere
People are also glossing over the fact that she was being haunted by her children. THAT was the “multiverse of madness.” She went crazy because she kept dreaming of her children that she couldn’t ever really know.
I love Marc, but when hearing him say Phase 1-3 all have something holding them together aka the stones and leading to Thanos is some rose colored glasses looking back because that was everyone BIGGEST complaint about those movies. Thor 2, everyone hated that they basically just made a movie to introduce one stone. Everyone complained about saying they just shoehorn things into movies so that they could fit. So now they make some stand alone movies that can possibly be weaved together later but no glaring “WE HAVE TO DO THIS TO GET TO THE NEXT POINT” moments and that’s not good either.
I think Marc was one of people saying “X” movie was just a commercial for the next movie. I could be wrong, but I know he has complained about Marvel movies relaying on what came before and would someone understand it if they hadn’t watched the other stuff.
That is what people are forgetting. Infinity saga ended. This is phase 1 all over again. We have to build to something again. Yes, the world is bigger now so there is room to pull in other stuff, and it is a delicate balance to continue the story but still start from somewhere new. We are building the multiverse saga. If there is one thing I have learned about Marvel, it is to temper expectations. The MCU is a Slow burn. Things are set up and paid off years later. Calm down and be patient, IMO. First they built, then we came. Now we are here, but they gotta rebuild again a bit.
Whatever. everyone I know who watched it liked Thor 2. That's a good movie and it's not at all what you describe.
@@alphanerd7221 I liked Thor 2 as well but yes a lot of people bashed on it for that reason. That's just how it is though the haters are always louder on the internet.
@@MrJackfaire Internet translator.
"a lot of people" = "a few people on the internet I bothered to listen to"
It's an absurd criticism on it' face. The AEther isn't even a stone in the movie.
Gosh..this is the first time it actually hurts to hear Marc say he didn't like the ending. I'm with Kevin w/this one. I loved it.
many didnt like the movie tho and for a movie that was about to be about doctor strange it didnt seem to be much about him as he gets overshadowed,Weakened and overall acts uncharacteristic to the point that he didnt use 90% of spells that he learned so far and i guaranty you that movie would be different and how they overpowered wanda to the point that she alone took out the illuminati that have at this point taken out mulitiple foes and she took them out as it was nothing also the men from iluminati have been acting like fools and there is no way wanda could beat xavier in a psychic battle in million years.
@@f2pcoder92 Wanda has always been one of the most powerful in the MCU. It’s talked about in multiple movies. Stfu you don’t k ow what you talking about
Ya know Marc, I’d like to examine your of choice words to describe America Chavez, as played by a 16 year old girl, as a “very attractive plot device,” and maybe how that plays a role in how you couldn’t really see her arc beyond her function as a plot device. I’m not saying it was a strong or particularly complex arc, but it was there. She very obviously ends the movie in a different place than where she began.
Yeah, I was a little uncomfortable when he said "she's not a character, she's an object that people desire." Pretty sure he didn't mean that the way it sounded though...
I'm getting tired of comments about the MCU being "directionless". Mark, please tell me what these movies had to do with the Infinity stones, the Infinity gauntlet or Thanos?
Iron Man 3, Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, Civil War, Homecoming, Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Ragnarok, Black Panther, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Captain Marvel.
The answer is nothing.
And why are people confused about Wanda's motivations? Are people not paying attention and forgetting that she has been corrupted by the Darkhold. The film mentions it multiple times and even has a corrupted evil Doctor Strange at the end to push this fact even further.
They don’t say “were we a cartoon” he asks that about the paint world. They don’t acknowledge the toons
America says to him "ya, it's hard to eat in that world", I think was the next line.
Regarding Doctor Who: Russel T Davies was the showrunner with both Christopher Eccleston and David Tennant; Stephen Moffat did the Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi runs.
There was a Doctor Who movie in 1996, starring Paul McGann as the Doctor and Eric Roberts (!) as the Master. Two other movies were made back in the sixties, but they're not canon.
Is it just me or does Marc hate everything? 😢
I don't think he hates everything but he does seem to hate most things.
He likes to pick apart everything. Even the things he genuinely likes, he seems to be able to say something negative about.
I think he is just expressing a critic's viewpoint of these shows/movies as a counterpoint to Kevin's positive fan-type reactions (which people who watch this show also criticize in these comments).
Darkhold corrupted Scarlet Witch. How does he not get that?
“I believe the planet was called Ferngully” a s my favourite JC Bamf moment ever
sometimes I feel sorry for mark, he doesn't seem to be able to just enjoy things just for what they are.
Guess it's the problem with being a critic/reviewer. You dismantle a movie and expect to see a certain thing, and then criticise that it's different to what you thought.
I loved Doctor Strange and more importantly my teenage kids love the slight horror element. They had great fun. Marc, seems a little too negative, but each to their own, but we had a blast. It was just pretty fun movie that went along at a good pace.
The Doc's arc in this movie felt pretty natural to me. He just wants to be happy, after learning about self-sacrifice through the events of the last couple Avengers and the first Dr. Strange, and he sees a world where he's gone and it's utopian and then a world where he dictates what happens and it's a hellscape and in the end he learns that happiness isn't found in controlling everything.
I thought the key line to his arc was 'you always have to hold the knife'. His journey was symbolised as going from mockingly refusing to bow to wong at start, to earnestly showing his respect at the end. As well as him not trusting America with her power at the start to inspiring her master her power at the end
Strange was abit of a loner. He needed to be in control, to be the one who fixes things. He wasn't really a hero, just someone who didn't trust anyone else to save the world. I think this film has now set him up as the man who could work well in a team. Its the next step on his larger MCU arc
@@jn4126 it can be both things, but I will say that knife line is given at the beginning of the movie and what I meant is that his arc is learning that the reason he always has to be the one holding a knife is because he's scared to let other people help him.
Doctor Strange has saved the earth many times at this point, basically every time he shows up in a film barring Thor Ragnarok he saves the day. It makes sense that he has a more personal arc going forward since his skills as a sorcerer are pretty solid by now
Arc? He has no arc. He's the same guy all the way through.
@@alphanerd7221 if u say so
I can’t seriously believe that Marc feels this season of Picard was good writing. I was hoping he’d come out and say it. If he does… woof, man.
Season 2 was such a disappointment. Sounds like Marc is trying to distance himself from it.
Picard Season 2 makes me question his opinions on everything.
I don't see anybody talk about this post, but I loved how they used the conceit of a different universe to conveniently show flashbacks that were relevant to connecting Strange and Chavez, helping them to understand where the other was coming from without an exposition dump or forced probing. I thought it was fun and silly in all the right ways, because it didn't waste any time with establishing.
It also told the story of her being stuck hopping from Universe to universe hoping the next hop would be the one to take her home.
Actually, come to think of it, although it's never said, I strongly suspect that those memory-playing machines were invented by Mister Fantastic.
I know im 2 weeks late, but after finally watching, this might be the first time i think both Kev and Marc are wildly wrong on their takes on MoM.
Like Marc asks what Stranges character arc is when it literally starts with his varient trying to take Americas power because as a Strange they have to be the one to save the world or make the choice (which they reveal is that way because of not being able to save someone when they were younger) to trusting and inspiring others to be able to save the world. Like its literally verbatum from Christine and the other Dr "you always had to be the one to hold the knife"
I feel like they both couldnt get over the movie not being what they thought it was going to be and couldnt enjoy it for what it was.
Plenty have others have already talkedd about the Wanda being under the influence of the Darkhold so i dont think that needs to be said
Strongly agree with this.
Wouldn’t that be funny if Kevin Feigi created a villain based on Marc called “the opinion”. Where his power is to give ear beatings for anything he didn’t write. Have him wear an orco t-shirt.
Dead!!!!😆😆💀💀
LMAO!!!!
Let's see Marc's movie when it comes out & let's see if it's perfect.🤷🏻♂️
I fell ya keven, I'm just a 61 year old guy who is kinda reliving his youth in the movies, I never had that drive or push to get into it like you did but it was the one thing that my father and I had to bond with. so I try to find something to like in everything to watch.
NWH Multiverse was based off a specific spell that went wrong, that’s why we got different versions of the same character.
In this movie, the dimension jumps were caused by America, so there’s different rules at play. The implications of that just can’t be explained…. It’s fictional y’all. Relax lol
I see it as !!!SPOILER!!! Kangs death in the Loki series spawned all these different multiverses, which makes spells like the one Strange cast in NWH infinitely more volatile and accidentally bringing the other Spidermen into the fold, and those new universes created more characters with different abilities, in America’s case the power to travel between them.
Ultimately though, you can’t do a story without the concept of Magic, Time travel or Mutliverses without there being plot holes .. it just comes with the territory, and if you want to enjoy it you have to accept it.
I wasn't expecting Kang at all in MoM
Wanda. Was. Corrupted. By. The. Darkhold.
What drives me nuts is people are like "838 Strange and Sinister Strange were corrupted by the Darkhold but Wanda just be baby crazy" like she wasn't also corrupted and controlled by the book.
Bruce Campbell should have been a Dr. Strange in one of the universes, after seeing him as the Pizza Papa
I thought rami would use him as mysterio in a multiverse since that was his plan for spiderman 4....but we got that pizza guy:/n I dont even wanna talk about x-men n fantastic 4 in this crap movie
No that would've been dumb and confusing as fuck.
@@showtime1285 Cope harder.
Imagine if, in the post-credits scene, instead of Clea, it was Spider-Ham. Sound effects and all. Lean right into the utter madness of it all :)
That... actually would have been fantastic!?
I’d rather a Wanda obsessed with getting her imaginary kids than a Wanda obsessed with a man (robot). At least the former isnt tired as fuck.
True. And I think a lot of people who are saying "why does she care, the kids were imaginary all along" forget that she physically gave birth to those kids in wandavision. It doesn't get much more real than that.
What Kev said about attachment to the Marvel shit is true for me too in a lot of ways. I had a weirdly emotional response to Endgame specifically Steve saying Avengers Assemble. All those years of reading these characters and seeing them brought to life on screen in a competent way is just cool. Also to see everyone who ridiculed me finally go along for the ride and enjoy this stuff is awesome.
I never really read these comics. X-Men and Spiderman 90's cartoons were my doorway to the Marvel universe. Probably bit of 80's Fantastic Four cartoon I think which I never really loved as well.
But by time got to big moments in Endgame and it's proper emotional after a decade of build up.
I expected Kevin to say “tell me when Disneyland has Club 420.” But I agree Club 69 sounds waaaaay better.
🤘😁🤟
Nothing's wrong with you Kevin. There could be something that the whole world thinks is great and Marc would be the only person to hate it.
I mean he literally said he loved Endgame early in the video and went on to list a bunch of things he loves from 37:35 like Terminator, Road Warrior, Alien, Aliens, Star Trek 2, the new Star Trek show and has talked about other modern stuff he loves on previous episodes from big franchise stuff to indie superhero movie Fast Color, but seems like people just want to hear what they want to hear!
So I literally just got back from seeing Dr Strange. I liked this movie a lot. I'm a huge Evil Dead fan so I loved all the little references I was really hoping for a Bruce cameo, and we totally got one. Loved the horror elements, loved seeing certain characters showing up. There was one character in particular that almost had me jump out of my seat. He wore a blue suit that's all I'm saying lol. I also went into this movie not knowing who the villain was, and I was pleasantly surprised. Also it has been 3 years since I last saw an MCU movie at a cinema (largely due to covid) Oh, and Moon Knight was okay, but it did that thing I knew it would do where they save all the action for the finale.
I don't agree with ANYTHING Marc says about Doctor Strange and the MoM!
Marc kills this show. He’s always just so down on shit. I get life is bleak af but I feel like Marc doesn’t enjoy anything
If that's what you think then you really should pay more attention.
Marc is a writer and used to be an actual critic, so I'm not surprised when he looks deeper at movies and TV shows both from a narrative and a creative standpoint. He's a nice counterpoint to Kevin, who basically loves damn near anything since he has incredibly low standards of enjoyment to the point where when he likes something, it really means nothing about whether something is actually good or not. I tend to agree more with Marc on things than Kevin.
@@ethinos2719 I agree. They kind form the extremes and the reality is often in-between them. Marc usually makes some very valid points, even if I don't agree fully with them, I can see how he got there. He always states what he likes too but that often gets lost by folks (the OP being one of them) who only hear what he doesn't like. As you say, he's a critic, whereas Kev is simply someone who gets stoned and wants to enjoy what he watches, faults and all. His love of it all is wonderful to see but it's not to be taken as a measure of anything.
the dark hold was steering Wanda, even had she got her kids, she would be driven onwards to do the Dark holds bidding to conquer, it manipulated her to go to any lengths using the kids as the carrot
thats about it, m8!
I don't know seems like they just wanted to include the darkhold from the comics , if you ask me they could've saved that for an X-Men storyline or a whole other movie
So why did she change her mind in the end?
Dr Who: The TV Movie was made in 1996 and features Paul McGann - Eighth Doctor, and Sylvester McCoy - Seventh Doctor with Daphne Ashbrook - Grace Holloway as the companion, and Eric Roberts - The Master. It was developed as a co-production between Universal Studios and BBC Worldwide. Most fan wish they could forget that this was ever made.
Doesnt the story imply that the Darkhom corrupted Wanada? Not sure Wanada wanting her kids back is as important as her weakness being used against her. Isnt that what the message is supposed to be for Dr. Strange himself in the journey?
Yes. That’s what they say over and over again. That the Darkhold literally takes ahold of you. And now Doc has got a third fucking eye on his head just like his Sinister counterpart, which I thought was to state that he is turning evil but then the post credits scene it seems to make light of that revelation which was kinda weird, I thought.
@UN KNOWN Multiverse version of Wakanda?
@@BraxtonWages the effect of the darkhold started up enough to give him the eye but now the books in every universe are gone so theres no further corruption
@@DeanCubed Ok, that makes sense.
I fucking love this conversation about the value of nostalgia. Helped give me some understanding of why I like or dislike the things I do.
Kevin: FUUUUUUUUUUCK that was awesome!
Marc: ... It was okay.
Who cares if it's a formula? It works! :-)
I usually agree with a lot of what Marc says but I completely disagree with his Dr Strange take. I thought it was great and felt Wanda’s arc made perfect sense. She created kids based on kids she dreamt about. She was an orphan who was raised by Hydra and now wants to be the ultimate helicopter mom. I thought the implication was that her eventually taking over the multiverse was because she would realize she had to protect ALL her kids. I dunno, I thought it was really good.
And the living tribunal literally if it was only for one second
"At the end of the movie, does any of this matter".... *Proceeds to explain exactly why it mattered.
Did Marc and I go see the same movie, or was he just not paying attention?
I walked out believing we aren't with OUR 616 Doctor Strange throughout the entire movie....
It was Christine that got me thinking.
In the first flick, yeah he screwed everything up with her before going to Nepal.....but upon returning as a master of the mystic arts, anytime something happens.... straight to her.
An ULTIMATE trust...and she's all in,no matter what occurred in the denial period and rage he aimed at her.
Never bats an EYE.
At the reception,she talked about he "always had to hold the knife...."
Both characters just seemed a bit...off.
WITH THAT outta the way,I FREAKIN LOVED it....as far as I was concerned,Wanda had gone flippo skipnik, straight bat shit,and the Darkhold knew it was corrupting a nexus being.
Lotta damage to be done with an evil Nexus being....
And personally?
Though she created the first 2 kids...THEY WERE HER KIDS. Creating new kids wouldn't be those kids...she never saw NEW kids in her dreams.....but variants of those kids...never said Vision had,er.... robot semen...in the other universes,hence they were also created by Wanda if logic prevails,
Her saying "but they are REAL in every other universe" doesn't imply they were born at all....as they've been real to her since creation... even alludes to being a "mother" at one point.
In her warped (and she's been going downhill since Pietro's death...the book merely steadied the decline) mind, there's no difference.
She yearns for family again....no matter what it takes.... between the "death" of Vision, the kids being gone and the Darkhold???
She was bound to snap.
She easily could have subconsciously formed the children in their specific likenesses because she has had DREAMS about them, even if she didn't remember consciously. Since dreams are glimpses into other versions.
It's so weird and wrong to see Kevin take such a lengthy tangent, pretty much apologising for liking stuff while Marc sits there in the corner just sucking the fun out the podcast with his relentless joyless criticism.
Happy to see this in my feed :) going through a hard time, thanks for the laughs bois
Damn Marc! Calm down!
I used to love listening to you guys, but lately it doesn’t make sense.
I almost wish it was just Kevin sometimes.
Bringing me down 😭
The problem with marvel movies and comic/nerdy properties in general, is people have too many preconceived notions on what they expect, and they can't accept when its different than their version. I've basically stopped having expectations and go in fresh with only a few ideas of what I'm going to see, and it usually means I enjoy it more
You got it exactly right. People let their theories become expectation. * If you ddnt do what I wanted then it's bad *
@@piusdoe8984 Case in point, the narrative for a new property was "What fans EXPECT from new series about to release", instead of what fans hope new series will feature...
Part is undoubtedly the headline for clicks mentality, but more than half is toxic fan culture of over expectations that leads to headlines focusing on the mindsets of the wrong fans...
Just my opinion though...
Kev just made me realize that the reason she didn't just conjure up the kids was because it didnt work before (WandaVision), they were not, and could never truly be perfect.
In regards to Dr who there were 2 movies back in the 60's that starred Peter Cushing as the doctor but was not tied to the series.
Yeah, they weren't even Doctor Who in name only as they had to change the name to Dr. Who, making Cushing's character a human scientist/inventor. The main reason they got made is because Terry Nation owned the rights to the Daleks (not the BBC), so the film makers could go through him to get them.
The paul mcgann who movie in the 90s where it killed Sylvester McCoy at the beginning and Eric Roberts played the Master
I don't know if your reading this but I'm happy as fuck your still alive and well I hope everyone else is also much love !
Kevin Smith is that awesome second cousin at the family reunion or funeral out of town that smokes you out when you’re 17 or lets you sip his beer when you’re 10.
Kevin Smith's mention about wanting to see Superior Iron Man is the reason why I have blocked all the websites that throw out the spoilers. I am tired of being either disappointed by bullshit or am annoyed by spoilers before I see the films or Disney+ shows.
it was paint world not cartoon world, that got mentioned? I would love a reference back to the cartoon though
I would like to see SOME kind of reaction to the giant Celestial head coming out of the ocean at some point in the MCU... or some reaction to the giant God Kaiju fight.
After watching the film a few times, I have come around on almost all of the criticisms one could have about the plot. I do feel that they could have added a few well placed scenes to emphasis some of it, but quite a bit of the information was there, just buried in subtext or small beats.
I could write all fuckin day about this stuff, but I will pick one area of criticism. It's going to be a long one. One thing I hear a lot of people mention is why Wanda was doing what she was doing, or why she couldn't just do x, y, or z. This is completely forgetting the fact that Wanda is no longer completely in control. Strange flat out says so after his chat with Wanda. She is gone, and the Scarlet Witch is in control.
At the end of WandaVision, Wanda comes to terms with the loss of Vision (also explains his absence from the film). She finds some closure and disappears with the Darkhold to further understand her power. Before she goes, Agatha warns her about the manipulative powers of the Darkhold and what she has released. In the post credit scene, we find Wanda in deep meditation while studying the book. It is implied that she has been taking this time to seriously study its contents. Wanda then hears her children calling from a distance. I believe this was the moment the Darkhold began manipulating Wanda. This is her first step down the path we find her on in MoM. Jump ahead to now and we discover that Scarlet Witch is trying to capture America in order to take her multiversal powers. In her mind, she is being reasonable. This is all being done out of love, as she needs to find her children. What she doesn't realize is this is really the Darkhold manipulating Wanda. It was able to figure out what she was still regretful about (her children), and it used it as the driving force her turn.
One great hint at this is a scene in the film between Wanda and Wong. He asks her why she needs to kill America, instead of just asking for her help. It almost acts as the segregate voice of the audience questioning what her motivations are. She gave a half-assed response saying something along the lines of well what if something happens down the line and I need to jump again. We can see that Wanda is trying her best to rationalize these decisions. She is subconsciously aware that what she is doing is extreme and unreasonable, but something is making her think it is the right thing to do. The Darkhold led her to believe that her mission was simply to get her kids back, but really there is an ulterior motive.
We find out towards the end of the second act/beginning of the third that the Darkhold is not just a single book, but rather a translation of spells created by Chthon inscribed on Mount Wundagore. Once Wanda and Wong investigate, we discover that it is not a temple, but rather a throne. We see a massive relief sculpture of the Scarlet Witch on the wall. We all now know that the MCU iteration of the Scarlet Witch is less of a title, and more of a nexus force. It is something that is latent in Wanda, and can be tapped into and unlocked. It is implied by the relief sculpture that this is all prophesied by Chthon as it has been there for an undisclosed amount of time. It is the spells contained in the Darkhold that are used to unlock this power. But to what end? In the film, Wanda seems to be trying to retrieve her kids, but Scarlet Witch is more interested in the power to control the multiverse.
A great scene demonstrating this split is subtle, but very interesting. During the first dream-walk Wanda performs, she ends up in Wanda's body in 838. We get an amazing Raimi style horror scene of a possession. At this point, standing at a sink with her kids directly behind her, Wanda looks up and we see the red glowing eyes. This is our indication that 616 Wanda is now in control. Or is she? In the scene, she immediately makes a b-line for the door, blowing right by the kids she so desperately wanted to find. It is not until one of her kids calls her mom and asks where she is going that she freezes in her tracks. We see this look of heartbreak come over her. She says she was just going to throw out the garbage. It was as if the priority of this jump was not the kids (what Wanda would have wanted), but rather to find America (the obvious motivation for Scarlet Witch). We then get to see Wanda walk over and have a heartfelt moment with her kids. This was quite obviously Wanda breaking through.
I think her turn as the villian makes sense in this context, but I do agree it involves quite a bit of detective work. Much of it is very subtle and difficult to notice at first. I think it could have been cleared up by adding a few scenes showing Wanda having an internal monologue with the Scarlet Witch. She could have had moments of questioning her decisions only to have the Witch quiet her concerns. It would have gone a long way to sell the fact that she has walked right into this trap quite possibly laid by Chthon himself.
Great points made!
I think one of the biggest scenes that showed Wanda wasn't in control (and surprised they missed this) was when Prof. X literally tried to free Wanda from the prison that I'm assuming Darkhold Scarlet Witch made and then Scarlet Witch snaps his neck.
She's trapped within herself with the Darkhold and Wanda's desire to be with her kids taking the reigns.
@@DoubleRDubPlays thanks! I had the exact same thought. I even imagined the scenes between Wanda and Scarlet Witch to be set in that white mindscape with the witch being that deadite version of Wanda.
Although the more I thought about it, the more I questioned which Wanda was in that scene. Was that 616 Wanda being trapped by the witch, or was that 838 Wanda trapped by 616 Wanda/the witch? I’m not sure at this point. These are the issues that go unaddressed that people bump in to. I wish they spent some more time ironing these details out.
Sam Raimi and James Gunn…two great Marvel directors. Agreed. There is also the Russo brothers and Jon Watts
Marc's take on this is so flawed. Normally i agree with him. But he missed the whole Dr Strange always has to be the one to hold the knife part of the story.
Doctor strange should have cast a spell that made Wanda forget her kids existed
im so glad you dont do clickbaity titles! Thank you So very much
Very much appreciate the spiel about not being click baity. That is absolutely true and appreciated. Especially considering that’s how the online business works, it’s super admirable.
I remember my brother being Stationed on Treasure Island in San Francisco when Top Gun was released. He came and picked me up from school one day in his dress whites then we went and watched it on base with his buddies about a week before it was released in the theater. Those guys giggled, drank beer, and cracked jokes on how lame it was all the way through it was AWESOME.
Starting to think Marc's not a good Analysts/reviewer for pop culture since he never seems so know what the characters wants, needs and or outcome in the long run for anything even when its put out on a plate for him with good writing behind it, such a glass half empty person tbh prefer him when hes drunk and looks on the light side of things kinda lol
Per George Perez: those GLORIOUS covers on Legion of Super-Heroes! The birth of the Teen Titans and the best sales of its age. Two different runs on Avengers (under the wonderful Roger Stern and the amazing Kurt Busiak). As well as Wonder Woman’s reboot, the Avengers-JLA crossover. Many many more.
And I don't believe for one SECOND that Wanda died.
She's a nexus being.... this is far from the end of her story arc.
Redemption WILL come in a future film.
Not even started watching I'm gonna guess, Kev loved it and Marc didn't