Been trying to do this setup on a budget for a number of years now. I’ve got an Elan 16 channel amp, and a complete Mirage Omni/nanosat speakers including 3 matching subs. Been considering the Tonewinner at 300. Anecdotally you can widen the stereo mage by doubling the stereo speakers and repeating the output. They need to be the same distance away as the main stereo just wider out and angled in more. Creates phantom stereo image. I be had good results anyway
Good man Ealan… really enjoying your clips lately. I say don’t underestimate how fantastic Top Middle Heights can be. I installed a 5.2.4 system in my long living room and I’m always surprised at how much more present and locatable height effects are on other’s systems with only 2x height channels (being 2x Top Middle Heights obviously). My room is a Frankenstein of reflections which I’m sure are causing havoc, however my next step is definitely upgrading to 6x heights and some well needed acoustic treatment to finally get some of that juicy Top Middle goodness… Great video as always man! Nico
Got all 6 height channels installed. I'm actually shocked by how much more detail I hear in the sound mix. Its been very good so far. Only one movie was made "worse" by this move (300, the "Fight in the shade" scene with thousands of arrows. Now the thunk of the arrow on the shields is pushed too far out and doesn't sound like its directly overhead. Plaything this with Neural-X fixes that problem though) but most other movies I have tried out are either the same or noticeably improved by this configuration. The dogfight over Chicago in Jupiter Ascending got even better, if that's even possible. And Alita Battle Angel sounds incredible.
I have 6 Atmos speakers in a 9.1.6. But I took out the top middle speakers because too much Atmos content only uses the top middles. Going to 4 atmos speakers forces my system to image with all 4 of them, which sounds much fuller and immersive without sacrificing better content that triangulates objects more effectively. If content improves in the future, I'll put the top middles back on the format in the processor.
Interesting! Thank you for this! Once I finally get 9.x.6 up and running in my theater (🤞), I’ll do more tests to really nail down this topic even further. 👍
Oh absolutely! I have a 9.1.6 setup. And half the time in certain movies, they only use the middle heights speakers, it never utilize the fronts or the rears. For instance, in the new Twister 4K movie. That movie only utilizes the middle height speakers. So you will have to turn off the middle height to utilize the fronts and the rears. But that gets very difficult if you are utilizing Dirac. Because if you change your speaker layout in Dirac, it completely deletes your entire calibration preset 😢
@@colbywoodbery8648 Yikes! I do want to get my hands on a certain pre pro that should hopefully allow me to do some tests and figure out once and for all what the best hybrid layout is for optimal audio output whether it be Atmos, DTS:X or even Auro 3D
Thank you for that info! I was always wondering about the .4 vs the .6 and what the downsides are. It is something to consider when designing a future height system setup.
@@colbywoodbery8648 might be a bug? What AVR/processor are you using? Have you tried the Spatial Audio Calibration Toolkit to verify that you have everything setup correctly?
I only have 5.1.4. I used to worry about whether my system could properly image height effects, given my room and speaker placement. But I tested The Prince of Egypt, and quite literally, the very last words of the voice of Yahweh at the burning brush scene felt like they were coming from a voice of god phantom speaker. And my heights are almost directly above my fronts and sides, all about 6 feet away from me. After that, i never doubted my system. I think a lot of it comes down how good of a job the sound engineers did.
My system is 7.4.4 in Denon X3800H with 4 independent subs locate it in every corner of my media room and for me the game changer was to add bass shakers to my main listened Sofa , ohh yeahh I'm in heaven , always listen everything with the Auro-3d Auro-Matic feature for all my content , sound way better vs The Dolby Atmos/surround or DTS Neural X
I never experienced 7.1.6 or 9.1.4. But I can say for sure that 7.1 has always worked better and more room filling, heavier on bass than 5.1.2 setup. From that analogy, if we extrapolate to 7.1.6 vs 9.1.4, I can understand if the latter sounded better.
I think it depends on the angle your L/R speakers are at, which is to your point likely narrower for those that have them behind an AT screen. In my case the L/R are already at 38 degrees to MLP and the distance between the L/R and side surround is nine feet. So like you say depends on how deep the room which will determine the angle the L/R at at. For a lot of people the FW are at the angles where I have my L/R
That UA-camr guy Jonathan VonEngeln has a crazy 9.8.6 JBL Line Array system. He upgraded from 4 to 6 height speakers and thinks it's actually worse now, especially with multiple rows of seats it's not clear where the sweet spot is supposed to be. For me personally a 9.4.4 is probably the absolute maximum I'd even try to attempt. Woman cave eh? Hurr hurr hurr hurr
Hello Ealan, love your channel. I have onkyo tx-rz50 and am thinking of a possible hack of cheating a front wide or so by using zone 2 in the same room! Would it work? Can you try it before I invest in new speakers since I'm running 5.1.4 right now. Thanks in advance
No, unfortunately. Zone 2 is technically its own separate processing pathway in the signal chain. Even if you tried to set it up that way, the audio that would actually come out would not be “front wide” information since the RZ50 doesn’t support front wides. Make sense?
Hello Mr Osborne, thank you for all the great, entertaining, and very informative content. You are one of my top three go to content creators for all my research and advice. I building my first system and decided to go with a Pioneer VSX-LX305. My room is 15’ deep, 11.5’ wide and 8’ ceiling. The speakers I just purchased are the Klipsch R-51M and R-52C as the LCR and the Klipsch R-41M’s as the remaining surrounds. With those room demotions in mind, which configuration is recommended for a more immersive sound experience? A 7.2, 5.2.2 with top middle, or a 5.2.4 with top front and top rear? Thank you for your awesome content. I understand you’re a busy person but I look forward to a possible recommendation Frank
5.1.2 or 5.1.4 will be more than enough for your room size. If you have budget contrains, go with 5.1.2 If you can afford and willing to get the most immersive experience for your room size? Then 5.1.4 is good to go. You can configure either as height layer or top(overhead) as per your available convenience.
I agree with this. ☝️ Mount 2 heights straight above the listening position if it’ll stay that way for quite some time. If having 2 heights will just be temporary until you get 4, mount the 2 heights up front, then add the rears. Ultimately, having 4 heights makes a big difference, so that should be the ultimate goal, if possible. 😊🎉
@@ealanosborne Mr. Osborne, wow what an honor. This was my third venture into communicating with a content creator such as yourself and the first time I get a response! Thank you. Well, budget is a priority but I followed your advice from your past content post and I have been shopping around for the past year. I finally have my LCR as I previously mentioned and I also have 6 R-41M Klipsch speakers and a R-100SW. All in all I spent $1462 including speaker mounts and OFC speaker cable. So, now I have everything for a 5.1.4. I did extensive research on configurations with regards to “Atmos” setup and positioning/angels and decided on taking your and Techno Dads advise and setting up a 5.1.4 with top front and top rear angled to MLP. I’ll be doing install myself so wish me luck. Oh, I’m also hoping to pair this set up to a TCL Q7 65inch or 75 inch Q6… Im still trying to figure out which would be better considering the law of diminishing returns. If you have any insight on that that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for your advice Sorry for the long and wordy posts but I am a “nooby” and still learning protocol on this
I've been saying for a couple years now, you can have both cheaper with 2 avr's. I combine a 9.2.4 Sony 7000 atmos, with a Denon 3800 auro3D. That gives 9.6.10 or many other combinations.
@@ealanosborne just send the hdmi out to the 2nd avr. I tried it with two denon 3800 also. Pretty cheap for that many channels. Also less strain on power supply. I don’t duplicate, just turn off channels not needed.
@@TechinaSec101 No the first avr works as intended. Avr 1 sends hdmi out to Avr2 and Avr 2 works as indended. In this config you now have access to extra channels. One can choose all atmos or combine atmos with Auro3D, or multiple configs of channels.
man cave is the name of a room not the genre of the room. It doesn't mean is men only in fact many we spend time with our wifes and daughters. When you want to please everyone you will ended up pleasing nobody. For instances soon you will be "forced , yes like in may tv shows or literature, to add more genres I can't wait for a "non Binary cave" or they/ them cave. Btw I am big fan of your content but I thing is right to just point out what it seems something silly can produce biggest consecuencies. Love your channel. Keep it going
Nice to dream but who in the real world can afford this type of equipment. I saved over a year to get a second hand onkyo htr494 with legacy jvc speakers which gives a nice 5.1.2. The room layout isn't perfect so I added 2 more fronts in series to get a ghost point where my doors are. So yeah I'd love to upgrade but it ain't happening in my life time
It takes years for people to achieve their setups. Decades even for some. 9.1.6 is available to anyone who is willing to work hard, save hard, shop the deals and be PATIENT. Saying you won’t get X thing in your lifetime is a really easy way to make sure it doesn’t happen. You have two more height channels than I do. And it took me two years of saving just to get my 5.2. This hobby takes time. Kaleidescape is something I feel like I’ll never be able to afford but truthfully I might only be a couple years away from that. Talking to other home theater enthusiasts is a really good way to give you that perspective. Their 9.4.6 JTR setups look less daunting when they tell you it took 15 years in the workforce to even get there.
I just bought a Denon X6700H for $1800 which allows me to do 9.1.4 or 7.1.6. The Iota, Emotiva MC-1 or Tonewinmer AT-300 are all 13 channel processors that cost around $2000 or less.
It’s very possible my friend trust me I used to think it wasn’t also but I’m running a Tonewinner at-300 that’s a 13 channel processor I got for like $800 used from there I got two separate external amps one 7 ch and 6 ch both $200 each. See not so expensive right? If you’re starting from scratch it may seem like a million miles but I started at a 4.1 in 2017 and just kept adding on every year or so doesn’t seem so much of a stretch if you do it long game just get started
I'm using Marantz 7015 for 5 heights & Emotiva basx5 for 5 bed layer for 5.1.5 set up. I did try 7.1.5 and to me It wasn't any better. I rarely get anything from voice of god speaker even though I have 2 middle heights about 7 feet from the VOG i've never experienced any phantom centres effects. I have thought about going up to the 8015 but will it be great improvement over the 7015? I'll have to suck it and see I suppose but a lot of money wasted if it isn't any better. Perhaps I should wait for the next generation of AVR's with spatial sound to get these improved effects.
@@ealanosborne no you can't buy those discs in the UK. I use the up mixer on atmos discs but its not the experience I was hoping for. Frankly the whole atmos thing is real let down.
@@mickblast5794 Got it. 👍 Yeah, moving up to an 8015 won’t really improve the processing. It just has one more zone and more power with the internal amps, it can handle 2 more channels, etc. But since you’re already using an external amp, that’s somewhat negligible. It may be time to think about something like an Arcam AVR20 or AVR30 (to save some money), or perhaps AVR21/AVR31 if it’s in the budget. Arcam should be more accessible to you since they’re a UK company.
Excellent video my man! I'm a supporter of 6 heights over Wides when your room is long enough to support it. But if you sit pretty far back from your screen then Wides may be the better option. I am upgrading to 7.4.6 myself, I just need to grab an external amp and add the rear heights (currently have my top-middles set as surround heights which Denon will actually use for Atmos) My room is 20 long by 12 feet wide. And I use 30° front and (eventually) rear heights so I'm going to need the Top-Middle to bridge the 18 foot gap between my height channels. Plus I only sit about 8 feet away from the front stage (my front row) so I'm close enough that I dont need wides. Additionally, immersive audio seems to work best with a 3-layer approach. Ear-level, a height layer between 20 and 40 degrees front and rear, and a Top-layer at 90° directly above the audience. Thus you need at least 6 heights to achieve that for Atmos (you can do it with only 5 for Auro and DTS:X)
The way I look at it, what we are trying to achieve is an Atmos “bubble”. In a perfect world, the speakers will be completely transparent. You shouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a phantom image somewhere vs a sound centered at one speaker. That said, it is my opinion the more speakers you have, the easier it is for the complete bubble to exist. You could argue to what the minimum number is, but that minimum number will require more effort into calibration.
Nice information between the 13 channel setups. More channels offer more sound but quality of sound matters almost as much as quantity. The ability of a system to move you to tears is priceless and is rarely achieved with the biggest subs or the most speakers. I think many people should start with a 5.0 (with Tower speakers) and perhaps a 5.1 setup (bookshelves + sub) and go from there although I do wonder if a soundbar is a better choice against a low-end 5.0 system. I was watching a movie at an AirBnB on a Samsung that had terrible sound and I can't explain how bad it sounded compared to a home theater. It made the 3rd Matrix movie almost impossible to watch and made me realize how spoiled I was in my Marantz old 8000 series era which ended last year when I bought a Denon 4800H :-)
Great video!!! Don't think I will upgrade. Already push the enveloppe. Have 5.2.2. My height are set has middle has oppose to front or back setting. Plus two speakers each side for my height speakers en place un even it work in my case. Plus small speakers to go along my front colum. 17 speakers including two subwoofers. Yamaha receiver and panasonic ub9000 my last upgrade love it!
What's your reasoning that having LCR behind an AT screen is more of a case for front wides? And do you have an opinion on how narrow or wide the room is also affects the use of front wides?
Because having speakers on either side of side of a TV towed in a bit towards the MLP is already encroaching on the front wide position anyway. If the LCR are all behind an AT screen (like in a movie theater) there’s a large gap of moving audio from the screen to the surrounds. It just fills it in nicely and makes it more immersive when front wides are present. And yes, having a fairly wide room would benefit from front wides to also fill in the gaps.
You would be lucky to fit in a 5.1 system in British living rooms, they are a lot smaller sized rooms than in USA. I am more than happy with 5.1 in my home. Way too many channels nowadays, over the top in reality
I know someone has already mentioned that he took out his top middles after installing them due to the absolute garbage implementation of Dolby Atmos by the content producers. Case in point is the recent 4k release of Twister. If you have 4 height channels it utilises all 4, but if you have 6, it will only use the top middles! This is also the case with a large number of discs in Dolby Atmos. Not encouraging and I wish the studios would stop mastering this way.
IOTAVX AVX17 or Tonewinner AT-300 - front wides is the greatest. Try listening to Godzilla vs. Kong (2021) the front wides really brings out the front sound stage. You don't need a Trinnov to enjoy the best 9.4.6 system. Step up to the Marantz AV10. Now why won't these knuckleheads at Tonewinner / Jade design improve the DSU and DTS Nureal up mixer to do front wides every time. Thanks for the list of 9 channel bed layer mixes Blu-ray's.
Why do the mixes need to include Front Wides explicitly????....I thought the entire point of Atmos / DTSX was it is object based instead of channel based, so they simply place the sound in space, and the receiver will use the front wides if they exist....has nothing to do with the mix. What am I missing???
The way I've heard it described is, despite the codec being object oriented, is most mixes are still largely channel based; with a few objects floating in the mix. Plus, many receivers up to a certain point dont have the channels to activate the front wides. It's a combination of your avr/processor, your source player, and what you're actually watching. Simply put, it's inconsistent lol.
☝️ This is correct. It would take SO much longer to assign EVERY sound as an object, so it is still largely channel-based, with occasional objects flying around when necessary. Check out Shane Lee’s movie reviews with this Atmos viewer app and you’ll see what I mean. 👍🎉
More & More & More !!! ... If you ain't got 16 channels on the taps ... we can't be Audio friends. =) ... Excessive spending and rampant luxury is the only way!! .. =D !
Hahaha! Pretty much! Screw family priorities! It’s family movie nights 24/7 from here on out after I spend all our money on upgrades to the home theater! 😄🤘
@@ealanosborne - Shit ya !!... 16 channel Emotiva or a Tone Winner Pre .. with 16 mono-blocks!! .. Tubes!! .. No more winter heaters .. just Amps and Edge Of Tomorrow intros on repeated for 8 hours a day!!! Bring on the 24 inch subwoofers and Brown Notes.
I think he is listing it as .1 for the LFE because the LFE is one channel. Having multiple subwoofers, 4 according to Welti research, is best. It's just that all the subwoofer channels are the same.
Correct. The video’s thumbnail says 1 subwoofer, but in the video itself I do mention “7.x.6” etc, since I know more than one sub is usually necessary to get more evenly distributed bass around any room. 👍
@@KforConstant what AV receiver can run 4 subs plus the 7 and 4 other channels ? I can understand how 4 would be better but in terms of diminishing returns 2 subs is more than enough
@@markdance574 denon, marantz equivalent, avr 3800h and up have enough outputs for 7.1.4 with 4 separate subwoofer management. Most people get a minidsp on the LFE channel and equalize the independent subwoofers. Todd Welti has good published research on the optimum subwoofer placement for equal bass output. If wanting to do UA-cam route then search for bass management Anthony Grimani
@@markdance574 denon x3800h and up, or marantz equivalent, can output to 4 different subs. Most people set up a minidsp off of one subwoofer out. 2 is usually plenty for output. Todd Welti research showed a subwoofer to each side is a good way to maximize the even output of two subwoofers.
There should be 9 height channels and 10 ear level channels. Why have gap between left and right height channels when we can place a speaker there? May God have all the channels to voice from wherever he wants!
I know someone has already mentioned that he took out his top middles after installing them due to the absolute garbage implementation of Dolby Atmos by the content producers. Case in point is the recent 4k release of Twister. If you have 4 height channels it utilises all 4, but if you have 6, it will only use the top middles! This is also the case with a large number of discs in Dolby Atmos. Not encouraging and I wish the studios would stop mastering this way.
Great video Sir 👍
I went Anthem MRX-1140 and 9.2.6 & love Front wides, among everything else.
Tower LCR and AT screen 😎
Nice! That’s the way to do it! 🤘
Enjoying my denon A110 with svs ultra and elevation speakers, and dual sb3000, 7.2.8 system
Nice! 🎉🤘
Been trying to do this setup on a budget for a number of years now. I’ve got an Elan 16 channel amp, and a complete Mirage Omni/nanosat speakers including 3 matching subs. Been considering the Tonewinner at 300. Anecdotally you can widen the stereo mage by doubling the stereo speakers and repeating the output. They need to be the same distance away as the main stereo just wider out and angled in more. Creates phantom stereo image. I be had good results anyway
Good man Ealan… really enjoying your clips lately. I say don’t underestimate how fantastic Top Middle Heights can be. I installed a 5.2.4 system in my long living room and I’m always surprised at how much more present and locatable height effects are on other’s systems with only 2x height channels (being 2x Top Middle Heights obviously). My room is a Frankenstein of reflections which I’m sure are causing havoc, however my next step is definitely upgrading to 6x heights and some well needed acoustic treatment to finally get some of that juicy Top Middle goodness… Great video as always man! Nico
Acoustic treatment is a definite next goal. 😁🤘 Keep it up, my friend!
Got all 6 height channels installed. I'm actually shocked by how much more detail I hear in the sound mix. Its been very good so far. Only one movie was made "worse" by this move (300, the "Fight in the shade" scene with thousands of arrows. Now the thunk of the arrow on the shields is pushed too far out and doesn't sound like its directly overhead. Plaything this with Neural-X fixes that problem though) but most other movies I have tried out are either the same or noticeably improved by this configuration. The dogfight over Chicago in Jupiter Ascending got even better, if that's even possible. And Alita Battle Angel sounds incredible.
Excellent findings! Glad it was definitely an upgrade, and not a downgrade! 🎉
I have 6 Atmos speakers in a 9.1.6. But I took out the top middle speakers because too much Atmos content only uses the top middles. Going to 4 atmos speakers forces my system to image with all 4 of them, which sounds much fuller and immersive without sacrificing better content that triangulates objects more effectively. If content improves in the future, I'll put the top middles back on the format in the processor.
Interesting! Thank you for this! Once I finally get 9.x.6 up and running in my theater (🤞), I’ll do more tests to really nail down this topic even further. 👍
Oh absolutely! I have a 9.1.6 setup. And half the time in certain movies, they only use the middle heights speakers, it never utilize the fronts or the rears. For instance, in the new Twister 4K movie. That movie only utilizes the middle height speakers. So you will have to turn off the middle height to utilize the fronts and the rears. But that gets very difficult if you are utilizing Dirac. Because if you change your speaker layout in Dirac, it completely deletes your entire calibration preset 😢
@@colbywoodbery8648 Yikes! I do want to get my hands on a certain pre pro that should hopefully allow me to do some tests and figure out once and for all what the best hybrid layout is for optimal audio output whether it be Atmos, DTS:X or even Auro 3D
Thank you for that info! I was always wondering about the .4 vs the .6 and what the downsides are. It is something to consider when designing a future height system setup.
@@colbywoodbery8648 might be a bug? What AVR/processor are you using? Have you tried the Spatial Audio Calibration Toolkit to verify that you have everything setup correctly?
I only have 5.1.4. I used to worry about whether my system could properly image height effects, given my room and speaker placement. But I tested The Prince of Egypt, and quite literally, the very last words of the voice of Yahweh at the burning brush scene felt like they were coming from a voice of god phantom speaker. And my heights are almost directly above my fronts and sides, all about 6 feet away from me. After that, i never doubted my system. I think a lot of it comes down how good of a job the sound engineers did.
Yes! Thanks for the example! 🎉
For sure, a lot of it has to do with how good the sound mix is.
My system is 7.4.4 in Denon X3800H with 4 independent subs locate it in every corner of my media room and for me the game changer was to add bass shakers to my main listened Sofa , ohh yeahh I'm in heaven , always listen everything with the Auro-3d Auro-Matic feature for all my content , sound way better vs The Dolby Atmos/surround or DTS Neural X
Bass shakers! Hell yeah! 😁🤘
I have the same AVR. How do I disable Dolby atmos like if im watching Disney . I have 3 choices. Stereo, atmos, all speaker. Thanks
@@Coffeedad for that set the audio setting in your fire tv as Dolby Digital Plus ,dont use best available
Front Wides!
I never experienced 7.1.6 or 9.1.4. But I can say for sure that 7.1 has always worked better and more room filling, heavier on bass than 5.1.2 setup. From that analogy, if we extrapolate to 7.1.6 vs 9.1.4, I can understand if the latter sounded better.
Yeah buddy!
I think it depends on the angle your L/R speakers are at, which is to your point likely narrower for those that have them behind an AT screen. In my case the L/R are already at 38 degrees to MLP and the distance between the L/R and side surround is nine feet. So like you say depends on how deep the room which will determine the angle the L/R at at. For a lot of people the FW are at the angles where I have my L/R
Yo Ealan😊
Hi Elan. What You recomend for HT dedicated room 5x7m. ?
You know I was waiting for this one, Ealan.
Yep! I knew there were some of you out there! 😁🎉
I'm team front wides over middle heights. Given a lot of what Channa and the KC guys have said about how they normally don't work well enough.
That UA-camr guy Jonathan VonEngeln has a crazy 9.8.6 JBL Line Array system. He upgraded from 4 to 6 height speakers and thinks it's actually worse now, especially with multiple rows of seats it's not clear where the sweet spot is supposed to be. For me personally a 9.4.4 is probably the absolute maximum I'd even try to attempt. Woman cave eh? Hurr hurr hurr hurr
Hello Ealan, love your channel.
I have onkyo tx-rz50 and am thinking of a possible hack of cheating a front wide or so by using zone 2 in the same room!
Would it work?
Can you try it before I invest in new speakers since I'm running 5.1.4 right now.
Thanks in advance
No, unfortunately. Zone 2 is technically its own separate processing pathway in the signal chain. Even if you tried to set it up that way, the audio that would actually come out would not be “front wide” information since the RZ50 doesn’t support front wides. Make sense?
@@ealanosborne many thanks..
Hello Mr Osborne, thank you for all the great, entertaining, and very informative content. You are one of my top three go to content creators for all my research and advice. I building my first system and decided to go with a Pioneer VSX-LX305. My room is 15’ deep, 11.5’ wide and 8’ ceiling. The speakers I just purchased are the Klipsch R-51M and R-52C as the LCR and the Klipsch R-41M’s as the remaining surrounds. With those room demotions in mind, which configuration is recommended for a more immersive sound experience? A 7.2, 5.2.2 with top middle, or a 5.2.4 with top front and top rear?
Thank you for your awesome content. I understand you’re a busy person but I look forward to a possible recommendation
Frank
5.1.2 or 5.1.4 will be more than enough for your room size.
If you have budget contrains, go with 5.1.2
If you can afford and willing to get the most immersive experience for your room size? Then 5.1.4 is good to go. You can configure either as height layer or top(overhead) as per your available convenience.
I agree with this. ☝️ Mount 2 heights straight above the listening position if it’ll stay that way for quite some time. If having 2 heights will just be temporary until you get 4, mount the 2 heights up front, then add the rears. Ultimately, having 4 heights makes a big difference, so that should be the ultimate goal, if possible. 😊🎉
@@audiodynamicsmaxsolutions thank you for your recommendation. Budget is a priority but I was able to get enough speakers for a 5.1.4 setup.
@@ealanosborne
Mr. Osborne, wow what an honor. This was my third venture into communicating with a content creator such as yourself and the first time I get a response! Thank you. Well, budget is a priority but I followed your advice from your past content post and I have been shopping around for the past year. I finally have my LCR as I previously mentioned and I also have 6 R-41M Klipsch speakers and a R-100SW. All in all I spent $1462 including speaker mounts and OFC speaker cable. So, now I have everything for a 5.1.4. I did extensive research on configurations with regards to “Atmos” setup and positioning/angels and decided on taking your and Techno Dads advise and setting up a 5.1.4 with top front and top rear angled to MLP. I’ll be doing install myself so wish me luck. Oh, I’m also hoping to pair this set up to a TCL Q7 65inch or 75 inch Q6… Im still trying to figure out which would be better considering the law of diminishing returns. If you have any insight on that that would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you so much for your advice
Sorry for the long and wordy posts but I am a “nooby” and still learning protocol on this
Oh yeah, that $1462 includes a Pioneer VSX-LX305 as well
Again, thank you for your content and patience with my wordy posts
As always, Frank
I've been saying for a couple years now, you can have both cheaper with 2 avr's. I combine a 9.2.4 Sony 7000 atmos, with a Denon 3800 auro3D. That gives 9.6.10 or many other combinations.
No BS, I would love to know how you achieve this combination. Lemme know! 😃👍
@@ealanosborne just send the hdmi out to the 2nd avr. I tried it with two denon 3800 also. Pretty cheap for that many channels. Also less strain on power supply. I don’t duplicate, just turn off channels not needed.
@@trauma50disaster1 Wouldn't that mean that the first AVR needs to be able to decode 16 channels?
@@TechinaSec101 No the first avr works as intended. Avr 1 sends hdmi out to Avr2 and Avr 2 works as indended. In this config you now have access to extra channels. One can choose all atmos or combine atmos with Auro3D, or multiple configs of channels.
Lol this is brilliant, I am sure timings will have to set manually. I can't seem to think of a reason why this won't work.
man cave is the name of a room not the genre of the room. It doesn't mean is men only in fact many we spend time with our wifes and daughters. When you want to please everyone you will ended up pleasing nobody. For instances soon you will be "forced , yes like in may tv shows or literature, to add more genres I can't wait for a "non Binary cave" or they/ them cave. Btw I am big fan of your content but I thing is right to just point out what it seems something silly can produce biggest consecuencies. Love your channel.
Keep it going
Nice to dream but who in the real world can afford this type of equipment. I saved over a year to get a second hand onkyo htr494 with legacy jvc speakers which gives a nice 5.1.2. The room layout isn't perfect so I added 2 more fronts in series to get a ghost point where my doors are. So yeah I'd love to upgrade but it ain't happening in my life time
Well, this video was a long time coming after I got several comments asking about this exact scenario. Just appeasing peoples’ curiosities. 😊🎉
It takes years for people to achieve their setups. Decades even for some. 9.1.6 is available to anyone who is willing to work hard, save hard, shop the deals and be PATIENT. Saying you won’t get X thing in your lifetime is a really easy way to make sure it doesn’t happen.
You have two more height channels than I do. And it took me two years of saving just to get my 5.2. This hobby takes time.
Kaleidescape is something I feel like I’ll never be able to afford but truthfully I might only be a couple years away from that.
Talking to other home theater enthusiasts is a really good way to give you that perspective. Their 9.4.6 JTR setups look less daunting when they tell you it took 15 years in the workforce to even get there.
I just bought a Denon X6700H for $1800 which allows me to do 9.1.4 or 7.1.6. The Iota, Emotiva MC-1 or Tonewinmer AT-300 are all 13 channel processors that cost around $2000 or less.
It’s very possible my friend trust me I used to think it wasn’t also but I’m running a Tonewinner at-300 that’s a 13 channel processor I got for like $800 used from there I got two separate external amps one 7 ch and 6 ch both $200 each. See not so expensive right? If you’re starting from scratch it may seem like a million miles but I started at a 4.1 in 2017 and just kept adding on every year or so doesn’t seem so much of a stretch if you do it long game just get started
It's a great video. Gives something to plan for. The fun of audio equipment for many is planning our and improving over the long term
I'm using Marantz 7015 for 5 heights & Emotiva basx5 for 5 bed layer for 5.1.5 set up. I did try 7.1.5 and to me It wasn't any better. I rarely get anything from voice of god speaker even though I have 2 middle heights about 7 feet from the VOG i've never experienced any phantom centres effects. I have thought about going up to the 8015 but will it be great improvement over the 7015? I'll have to suck it and see I suppose but a lot of money wasted if it isn't any better. Perhaps I should wait for the next generation of AVR's with spatial sound to get these improved effects.
Have you listened to any native Auro 3D mixes, or exclusively using the Auromatic upmixer?
@@ealanosborne no you can't buy those discs in the UK. I use the up mixer on atmos discs but its not the experience I was hoping for. Frankly the whole atmos thing is real let down.
@@mickblast5794 Got it. 👍 Yeah, moving up to an 8015 won’t really improve the processing. It just has one more zone and more power with the internal amps, it can handle 2 more channels, etc. But since you’re already using an external amp, that’s somewhat negligible. It may be time to think about something like an Arcam AVR20 or AVR30 (to save some money), or perhaps AVR21/AVR31 if it’s in the budget. Arcam should be more accessible to you since they’re a UK company.
@@ealanosborne Yes your right, I might give Arcam an audition soon. Love your content, Cheers for the advice.
Excellent video my man!
I'm a supporter of 6 heights over Wides when your room is long enough to support it. But if you sit pretty far back from your screen then Wides may be the better option.
I am upgrading to 7.4.6 myself, I just need to grab an external amp and add the rear heights (currently have my top-middles set as surround heights which Denon will actually use for Atmos)
My room is 20 long by 12 feet wide. And I use 30° front and (eventually) rear heights so I'm going to need the Top-Middle to bridge the 18 foot gap between my height channels. Plus I only sit about 8 feet away from the front stage (my front row) so I'm close enough that I dont need wides.
Additionally, immersive audio seems to work best with a 3-layer approach. Ear-level, a height layer between 20 and 40 degrees front and rear, and a Top-layer at 90° directly above the audience. Thus you need at least 6 heights to achieve that for Atmos (you can do it with only 5 for Auro and DTS:X)
Hell yeah! 🤘
The way I look at it, what we are trying to achieve is an Atmos “bubble”. In a perfect world, the speakers will be completely transparent. You shouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a phantom image somewhere vs a sound centered at one speaker.
That said, it is my opinion the more speakers you have, the easier it is for the complete bubble to exist. You could argue to what the minimum number is, but that minimum number will require more effort into calibration.
Very true! I like it! 🎉
Nice information between the 13 channel setups. More channels offer more sound but quality of sound matters almost as much as quantity. The ability of a system to move you to tears is priceless and is rarely achieved with the biggest subs or the most speakers.
I think many people should start with a 5.0 (with Tower speakers) and perhaps a 5.1 setup (bookshelves + sub) and go from there although I do wonder if a soundbar is a better choice against a low-end 5.0 system.
I was watching a movie at an AirBnB on a Samsung that had terrible sound and I can't explain how bad it sounded compared to a home theater. It made the 3rd Matrix movie almost impossible to watch and made me realize how spoiled I was in my Marantz old 8000 series era which ended last year when I bought a Denon 4800H :-)
It’s always a revelation when on vacation. 😄🎉
Great video!!! Don't think I will upgrade. Already push the enveloppe. Have 5.2.2. My height are set has middle has oppose to front or back setting. Plus two speakers each side for my height speakers en place un even it work in my case. Plus small speakers to go along my front colum. 17 speakers including two subwoofers. Yamaha receiver and panasonic ub9000 my last upgrade love it!
That’s totally fine! At least you have a system and aren’t just listening to TV speakers. 😁🎉
What's your reasoning that having LCR behind an AT screen is more of a case for front wides? And do you have an opinion on how narrow or wide the room is also affects the use of front wides?
Because having speakers on either side of side of a TV towed in a bit towards the MLP is already encroaching on the front wide position anyway. If the LCR are all behind an AT screen (like in a movie theater) there’s a large gap of moving audio from the screen to the surrounds. It just fills it in nicely and makes it more immersive when front wides are present. And yes, having a fairly wide room would benefit from front wides to also fill in the gaps.
Very cool
Thanks, Craig!
You would be lucky to fit in a 5.1 system in British living rooms, they are a lot smaller sized rooms than in USA.
I am more than happy with 5.1 in my home.
Way too many channels nowadays, over the top in reality
Or you could add more subs to have more impactful bass in a 7.1.6
your switching is likely due to fewer watts (9)/more watts per channel (7) .. the main channels pull more power than heights
Hi Ealan, what do you think about 9.4.4 where 4 elevation speakers are placed in the middle of wall 1 on each side of wall ?
I think that’ll be great too! That’s what SVS suggests on their Elevation speaker diagram. 👍
2 subs bro
Strtd with 7 n having 9 now. Its impossible to get 13 anytime soon😢😢
I went with 5.4.6 instead of 7.4.4!
There you go! 🤘🎉
@@ealanosborne Ealan, I didn’t feel like running speaker wire to the back of the room, besides, I already had the middle heights in place!
What you say about 6? Sometimes only middles active,but Most of the time all six.I uograded also to 5.2.6.i Like so far!
Do you have 9.4.4 config or 9.1.4?
@ 4.59-5.52, you seemed to say '9.4.4'. I guess, room with that length, need at least 2 subs if not 4.
I do have 4 subs, yes. 👍
I know someone has already mentioned that he took out his top middles after installing them due to the absolute garbage implementation of Dolby Atmos by the content producers. Case in point is the recent 4k release of Twister. If you have 4 height channels it utilises all 4, but if you have 6, it will only use the top middles! This is also the case with a large number of discs in Dolby Atmos. Not encouraging and I wish the studios would stop mastering this way.
IOTAVX AVX17 or Tonewinner AT-300 - front wides is the greatest. Try listening to Godzilla vs. Kong (2021) the front wides really brings out the front sound stage.
You don't need a Trinnov to enjoy the best 9.4.6 system. Step up to the Marantz AV10.
Now why won't these knuckleheads at Tonewinner / Jade design improve the DSU and DTS Nureal up mixer to do front wides every time.
Thanks for the list of 9 channel bed layer mixes Blu-ray's.
Exactly! Or perhaps even a less expensive alternative (like Arcam or Anthem) and use a MiniDSP to handle 4 subs. So many ways!! 🤘🎉
🤔🤔🤔🤔
Time are change but my wallet not anymore
So any Warner movie is basically 9.1.4?
Yes. Not just warner bros. Pretty much every studio is implementing dynamic objects i.e more than 9.1.6
Why do the mixes need to include Front Wides explicitly????....I thought the entire point of Atmos / DTSX was it is object based instead of channel based, so they simply place the sound in space, and the receiver will use the front wides if they exist....has nothing to do with the mix.
What am I missing???
The way I've heard it described is, despite the codec being object oriented, is most mixes are still largely channel based; with a few objects floating in the mix. Plus, many receivers up to a certain point dont have the channels to activate the front wides. It's a combination of your avr/processor, your source player, and what you're actually watching. Simply put, it's inconsistent lol.
☝️ This is correct. It would take SO much longer to assign EVERY sound as an object, so it is still largely channel-based, with occasional objects flying around when necessary. Check out Shane Lee’s movie reviews with this Atmos viewer app and you’ll see what I mean. 👍🎉
More & More & More !!! ... If you ain't got 16 channels on the taps ... we can't be Audio friends. =)
... Excessive spending and rampant luxury is the only way!! .. =D !
Hahaha! Pretty much! Screw family priorities! It’s family movie nights 24/7 from here on out after I spend all our money on upgrades to the home theater! 😄🤘
@@ealanosborne - Shit ya !!... 16 channel Emotiva or a Tone Winner Pre .. with 16 mono-blocks!! .. Tubes!! .. No more winter heaters .. just Amps and Edge Of Tomorrow intros on repeated for 8 hours a day!!!
Bring on the 24 inch subwoofers and Brown Notes.
@@psyphonyxaudio 😂😅🤣
You’re all wrong - you need 7 .2 .4
Adding a second subwoofer is a game changer !
I think he is listing it as .1 for the LFE because the LFE is one channel. Having multiple subwoofers, 4 according to Welti research, is best. It's just that all the subwoofer channels are the same.
Correct. The video’s thumbnail says 1 subwoofer, but in the video itself I do mention “7.x.6” etc, since I know more than one sub is usually necessary to get more evenly distributed bass around any room. 👍
@@KforConstant what AV receiver can run 4 subs plus the 7 and 4 other channels ?
I can understand how 4 would be better but in terms of diminishing returns 2 subs is more than enough
@@markdance574 denon, marantz equivalent, avr 3800h and up have enough outputs for 7.1.4 with 4 separate subwoofer management. Most people get a minidsp on the LFE channel and equalize the independent subwoofers. Todd Welti has good published research on the optimum subwoofer placement for equal bass output. If wanting to do UA-cam route then search for bass management Anthony Grimani
@@markdance574 denon x3800h and up, or marantz equivalent, can output to 4 different subs. Most people set up a minidsp off of one subwoofer out.
2 is usually plenty for output. Todd Welti research showed a subwoofer to each side is a good way to maximize the even output of two subwoofers.
There should be 9 height channels and 10 ear level channels. Why have gap between left and right height channels when we can place a speaker there? May God have all the channels to voice from wherever he wants!
😄
I know someone has already mentioned that he took out his top middles after installing them due to the absolute garbage implementation of Dolby Atmos by the content producers. Case in point is the recent 4k release of Twister. If you have 4 height channels it utilises all 4, but if you have 6, it will only use the top middles! This is also the case with a large number of discs in Dolby Atmos. Not encouraging and I wish the studios would stop mastering this way.