Line of Sight EXPLAINED - KILL TEAM 2!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Hi Internet!
As promised, here is our video explaining in detail Line of Sight for Kill Team 2.
We go over all the details and dissect the rules from the core manual, and run through many examples to help drive it home!
We hope you enjoy! And if you have any questions, please drop a comment and we can help clarify anything for you!
Follow us on Instagram:
Channel: @strategic.advantage
Emmanuel: @eman.paints
Alex: @alexmech_
Thanks to Nick Squires for the jams! Hit the nail on the head with what he whipped up!
You can find him at: www.fiverr.com...
Would be interesting to get an in-depth explanation of the new vantage point floor cover rule
Oh we agree! We want to let the dust settle a bit on that before we rush out a video. We have a zillion thoughts
Excellent video! Best explanation I’ve found online 🍻
Thank you! Glad it was helpful!
This is something I keep explaining to newer players. now I can reference them to this video!
That’s what we made it for! Glad you found it helpful!
@@StrategicAdvantage The most valuable part for me to reference was the ability to move 'sideways' to interfere with a model's cover lines... Something I have had to explain quite a few times as my Operative darts out, shoots the person my opponent believed was safe at just under 1" from cover.
Similarly the obscurity rules revolving around non-reciprocal shooting.
Yup, this is the sort of video needed
A quick question. So when you are at a heavy cover with a window, and your base is obviously behind a wall which is under the window, do you treat the wall as not being there for line of sight?
I just ask because after the head seeing the target to be visible, the rest is up to the bases visability. And being in heavy cover, the base is invisible to the target. So I'm assuming you treat the head as the base here?
More examples, please! :P
what in this case:
X ------------- very - long - wall - of - the - building -------------------- Y
X is a shooter
Y is a target
Y is in X's line of sight and they are both in 2'' of the same very long wall. What now :P ?
If a cover line drawn from X intersects the wall and the wall had the obscuring trait, the X does not have line of signs on Y
This 'Obscured' rule is just garbage I think I'm deciding.
You/The rules say that they have to be 2" Away from the obstacle, because that simulates some kind of 'they're running around and are blurry'. This is rubbish (not your fault of course) because they could be as 'blurry' if they ran fast close to the obscuring terrain piece. Especially if they are just dashing across to the other side of a small gap. They would actually be harder to hit as it takes less movement distance to cross the view through the small gap if they are close to it compared to if they are further away from the small gap. So needing to be 2" away doesn't make any sense.
Secondly, only 'heavy' terrain grants 'Obscurity'. BUT we just said that the rule simulates them dashing quickly and being hard to pin down. Well that has got nothing at all to do with the solidity of the obscuring wall. It's two completely different aspects. The rule is mixing its metaphors and its combining apples and oranges.
It seems everyone is just bending over backwards using whatever idea they can think of to make this rule make sense, when actually it just doesn't.
We agree it’s not a perfect rule and the “real world” parallel is less of an explanation but more a way to help remember the rule.
The line of sight rules are at best a rough abstraction of what a firefight would be like, and are far from perfect but go a long way to simulate a battle. Much better than last Ed where you could shoot from way across the board at a sliver of the tip of a grot’s hat poking over a window sill (no I’m not bitter 😬)
@@StrategicAdvantage Haha ok so at least they improved.
Its been such a struggle to just understand how the rules as written are supposed to work so its highly frustrating that now that I think I do understand, they still don't make sense! I guess its a dissapointment that that is the reward for putting the work in to understand the los rules. :P
I'm a long time gamer and its probably somehow ingrained in me that tabletop war gaming is meant to be a 'simulation' of sorts. For each rule you should be able to draw a line to the real world aspect it is trying to replicate in the game. I don't much like it when rules are 'just made up' on a whim because it makes the game more even or playable. Then more thought should be put in to make the rules clear, logical AND enjoyable to play with.
Some people give GW the get out of jail card because GW says 'they are a miniature company' and not a games company. That's not really honest though as they are definitely as much a games company and should make more of an effort.
I'm trying to play Kill Team with my son and I'm not looking forward to have to explain this illogical rule to him. Well at least it wasn't me who wrote it and I guess we could just change it to something else when playing at home. :)
Have you checked out the Kill Team Lite rules from Warhammer community? They simplify LOS quite a bit and might make it more enjoyable
@@StrategicAdvantage Oh ok no I haven't actually.
I think I did download a copy at some point I'll take a look maybe that's a solution!
Thanks for the suggestion!
Ah, that last example, using the shifting cover lines, was a clever one! I’ve seen lots of “understanding LoS” videos for Kill Team, but that was a new wrinkle! Well done and nice job on the podcast!
Thanks! Glad you found it helpful!
Question:
So if the attacking unit is on a vantage point, and the target is on floor level, can the attacker ignore light cover that would obscure the target. So the target is more than 2 inches away from the light cover. Therefor the target would usually be obscured if the attacker was on the floor. Now is it still obscured if the attacker is on a vantage point?
Sorry I missed this!
A few things
(1) Vantage treats a target’s order as engage instead of conceal, does nothing to their cover.
(2) Cover and Obscuring are two separate things. Vantage does nothing to Obscuring, but sometimes you can look OVER terrain with obscuring as shown on the first page of the faq for the game on Warhammer community
Hopefully that helps
This video is fantastic and I love this game but after playing One Page Rules Grimdark Future I am finding this versions complexity to be less and less appealing lol
Line of sight definitely is a hurdle, but once cleared it leaves the game in a good place in our opinion. It allows models not to be “punished” for dynamic poses as if you want to be hidden you have way more agency over it
hi! great channel!
Are you going to make guide on how to play veteran guardsmen? I'm struggling to win against kommandos
There are many channels that do the “how to” archetype already so we decided to take a different path with our channel.
The best advice for winning with vet guard is to lean on a large demo-man play on a key model, spotter-sniper combo to keep vantage points clear, frag + Krak grenade on your ancillary troopers, and always remember to play the mission. Hopefully that helps!
Probably the best video I’ve seen on this. And I’ll probably still home rule it 😂
Glad it helped!
Great video! I would like to say harbor freight laser marker is the same thing (or near enough) as the army painter tool but at a fraction of the price.
I had no clue! Good to know!
This is the main problem with Kill Team 2, LOS rules are so hard to understand
They really are. This video has been around for a bit but we edited it in a few spots to improve the explanation and fix some minor inaccuracies and Re uploaded it as a resource for new players and veterans with some LOS hang ups :)
How do you draw coverlines if the operative you are shooting is on a vantage point? This still confuses me 🥹
Thanks for the explanation!
Wish good luck for you both & channel :)
You’re welcome and thanks!
Just started on into dark with my friend.. got confused about the cover/los stuff.. your videos really help alot. So far even with the small mistakes KillTeam is helluva fun game to play.
We’re glad the vids helped! We agree, the game has come a long way and despite some rough edges it plays well!
@@StrategicAdvantage some rules like the light cover concealed order on ab operative like the Tyranid warrior seem out of place especially when the light cover is the default barricade.
Thanks
So well done, yet again!
Tyvm! Glad you enjoyed 🤘🏻
Very good explanation. I had a weekend with 4 players duking it out and trying to agree on obscuring rules was like herding cats.
Very good video. I had a wierd cover situation in my last game. I was playing againt orc kommandoes and my opponent had all off his operatives in conceal orders. Thing is one of his operatives was standing in the open so I thought I could shoot at it but my opponent said that I couldnt because one of his other opperatives was standing sligtly in front of my target. My coverlines crossed this other operatives Base. The other opperative was about 90% visible to me but it had a small part of his Base behind a house so it was in cover. Am I not allowed to shoot the oppertive in the open because the model in front of him grants him cover?
I’m so sorry for the late reply!
There is an FAQ/Errata entry that covers this. In the core book as it was printed your opponent is right. But this was erratad. You can only have cover from a friendly model if that friendly model is themselves a valid target.
Hey, loved your contents, are you also in audea?
This video was helpful to grasp something about obscuring heavy terrain my group has been having an issue getting. It is crazy at how simple these rules are but GW does their hardest to write things as complicated as they can.
So glad it helped! Line of sight is the toughest part of this game to grasp for most, but a lot of it is just how it’s explained in the book we agree
Oooh. I thought this was going to be a re-upload with some modifications to deal with the Vantage Point stuff in the last FAQ! Please tell us you're going to cover that!
(I've read your answers to other comments, and look forward to your thoughts. You guys are probably the best resource for understanding these rules, and I've hugely appreciated your stuff.)
Thanks for your kind words!
Great video ! I’ll show this to everybody I want to get into the game!! :)
What about shooting somebody who’s standing on a vantage point? You probably recorded this before that happened, but there has been quite a discussion online after the recent faq 2 days ago :s
We have plans to have an entire video for that.
This video is an edit of an earlier recording, there were some inaccuracies we wanted to correct to improve the resource as a learning tool for new players. So that being said definitely predated the VP fiasco from the 8.10.22 FAQ.
Emmanuel has been part of that online discussion from the start in a couple discords. Main point of struggle with the new VP rule is if the floor of a VP gives cover? There is some loose RAW support saying no, but only a philosophical argument of “why would they remove cover from the floor in the rules text if they weren’t intending for it to grant cover” for the opposing argument.
Tough to really know RAI at this point and RAW is not clear cut. The more we think about it the more questions we think of, haha!
In the end, as long as a TO declares what the floor does before a tourney starts, or you agree with your friends how to play it, then the new FAQ changes are easy to apply
thank you :)
You’re welcome!
Great summary!
Thanks! Glad you found it helpful!