Imagine, for a moment, that you are Natalie. You just heard that your boyfriend is livestreaming for the first time, and curious, you decide to check it out. You watch it for a bit, but then decide that enough is enough and go on to do something else. Not much time later, you hear someone enter through your front door. You tense up, wondering who it could be and why they went to your house specifically. Soon enough you see that it's, your boyfriend? Had he stopped livestreaming? Before you can answer anything, he's already hit you across the face, slamming you against the floor. The last thing you see is whom you thought to be your one true love, knife in hand, throwing downward.
the fact that he put in tongue in cheek references to the murder is so insane. he was so confident that he’d get away with this that he felt like playing the riddler in his alibi
The fact that he was able to hint at and even make jokes about what he was planning to do is honestly haunting. Like, he even sang a little song about it
He has an identity/fantasy issue thing going on I think. For some reason he said all those threats etc. in a shtty old london accent then went back to his normal accent. Really weird. Wouldnt be at all suprised to find out he constantly tells bizarre lies.
@@dismurrart6648To be fair, there's a bit of survivorship bias there. We only know the identities of serial killers that get caught, and the ones that give hints are more likely to get caught.
@@thejuvenoia I mean yeah, but it sounded like nutley the first time I heard it. Given the story it seems that's what he said, I just wrote what I heard initially.
@@loveableheathen7441we've gotta redefine dumb because some of them have really high IQs. At least two have even been MENSA members, one of those leaving the empty bottle of poison in his garage that he ended up renting out to an undercover detective.
@@loveableheathen7441You're absolutely correct. Though IQ tests have nothing to do with education (and in theory have to do with problem solving). I think the main reason "taunter" killers are caught more has nothing to do with their seemingly lower intelligence, and is mainly because of the ingrained technology in our society today There was a certain level of anonymity that was expected to be respected in even the recent past. Certain peoples were given the benefit of the doubt, far too much. Thanks to technology, that's mostly gone now. Honest people no longer have privacy, but neither do those whom abused it.
@@thehalfmoonmirrorsvenus1234IQ does in fact have links to education. Hence why it can fluctuate throughout a persons life, and why poor areas with weaker educational systems have lower IQ. It’s also why it was implemented in the US.
Its just a modern day equivalent of serial killers like Jack the Ripper or the Zodiac being really coy in their letters to police or ciphers. He wanted people to endlessly speculate if it was him but be unable to prove it.
@@PR0MAN01 hard comparison of famous serial killers to loser that got away with it for 2 or 3 days. but i get what you mean. dude thought he was playing 5d chess but only really playing tic tac toe
@@ziroskillsgaming7786HAHAHHAHA I burst out laughing because some of the oldest caves from pre humans had what looks like tic tac toe carved in stone and they found pigments where the X and O would go and wonder if that was the earliest version of the game of a #hashtag lol My guess is that it was the game and that would make it even more primitive which made your comment sooo much funnier to me.
These people constantly surprise me the more I learn about them. I will constantly be shocked by how fucking bizarre these people can be and I just really enjoy the single life of not dating anymore. Rescued animals are where it is at 💖
I have a friend who is currently in jail for murder. I found out when I started searching for any updates to her life after she dropped off the planet a few years ago. I've grappled with the same feelings over her.
Damn, that really sucks. I'm sorry. I can somewhat relate because I have a cousin from my dad's side of the family. He was recently jailed after getting into a fight with his mother, which culminated in him attempting to strangle her. Now, he's had a bad childhood at the hands of his father and has been doing drugs, but it really does not excuse what he did. The best thing he can do (and I hope he does) is get help. I'd really like to see the good in him.
I cannot imagine the horror of watching your supposed lovers livestream just to be interupted by the same person youre watching "live" in your house with murderous intent.
i havent watched the video yet, was scrolling thru the comments to try and confirm on my own if this was the same person i had somewhat heard about before (it is), and i swear it all feels so much worse with the additional knowledge that she was watching the livestream when it happened
The fact that Natalie "liked" the stream announcement and told him she would watch it, it's like she didn't even see any hint of the malevolence coming from him. It's horrifying to think how out-of-nowhere his attack on her must have felt in those moments. That poor woman.
Is so morbid... My mind jumped immediately to the unborn child being the "reason" for this gruesome shit. I'm also unwanted by my father but I'm glad he stepped away instead of slowly getting out of hand with the relationship with my mom...
You think the strange taunts were meant for her? Sounds like he planed out the No Time to Die poster to appear like something right out of a horror movie.
He should of been so incredibly excited and happy for his family starting. I lost a gf who was pregnant. And it ruined me for YEARS. I just cannot wrap my head around this without crying.
@@raghmane of course it doesn't, but that's a likely motive. Doctor who loser nerds don't exactly go around murdering their girlfriends for pure bloodlust
Around 2 years ago i was informed that one of my high school friends had murdered his grandparents, covering it up with a fire so that he and his girlfriend could attempt to inherit their house. We were close in our teens, but had fallen out of touch after graduation. This was more or less my first update on his whereabouts since school. It's an unsettling sort of feeling, ranging from muted horror to occasionally resembling some sick parody of the feeling of knowing a celebrity, something you bring up at parties and then immediately regret when people react with the revulsion the topic deserves, but sometimes i don't know how to deal with it other than to talk about it. It infiltrates your memories, your home, your birthdays shared together. This is the floor where i laughed with a murderer; this is the hall where he told me about his crushes. There's a part of me that always hopes somehow it was some big mistake, that the eccentric, lonely boy i knew wouldn't have done this, but he probably did. I tried to write a letter to him in jail, but couldn't get past the first line. What is there to say?
I am very sorry. It has never really occured to me that the people who were friends of murderers will also be impacted, just like the people who were friends of victims. I had made the mistake of having my opinion of innocent decent people like you, with who your past friend once was. And I cannot fathom a solution to stop the feelings you had felt, other than the cold passing of time. One's identity is built on their own personality but also other people or other groups of people they choose to associate with, and I wouldn't wish imposing this emotional turmoil and identity collapse to my worst enemy if I had one. I assume you felt better after 2 years because feeling bad like this continiously would be debilitating and sui. A common saying says "the Art, not the Artist". In this case it may be "(the memories you made), not (the person you made the memory with's future self", but I feel that there might never be the ability for me to feel nostalgic or happy about those memories I made. Not to judge you or anyone who Does feel nostalgic or happy about those memories, but the "Art, not the Artist" pill is too difficult for me to swallow. I hope you choose to stick around and enjoy the fresh air for as many mornings as possible, fellow stranger.
Similar. Found out after middle school that both my orchestra teacher and a friend who had dropped out were both murdered the same year. Both by abusive spouses. Finding out that folks have just disappeared due to insanity like that is a hell of a jolt.
@@ScaryBoomBoomGun I'm alright, certainly the family of the deceased are the ones who need the most support. Since i didn't even know the victims it's often a more surreal experience than it is a sad one? I'm lucky to have my own life and live nowhere near him.
How he could call her "this bitch" and premeditate her murder after dating her for only 4 months is extra scary. RIP Natalie & baby Dean. I am so sorry for her family & friends.
Murder of pregnant women by their spouses/boyfriends is actually incredibly common. It's sick, yes, but homicide is the leading cause of death for pregnant women and women who recently gave birth.
@@chU62783y "That's what men really think of us". I'd like to address this for a moment. As a man who has spent twenty-six years without murdering a single person and actively working so as to never, ever do such a thing, I urge, _implore_ you to reconsider your generalizing statement. It is deeply hurtful to both my efforts, and the efforts of the many men who've never done anything wrong to women. Now, I don't presume to tell you that you shouldn't be afraid, or bitter, or vindictive. A lot of us are fucking annoying, and women tend to suffer the consequences for essentially no reason. You shouldn't be on the receiving end of violence just because you're in the room. But that doesn't give you the right to go around and carelessly imply that men's true thoughts is they have contempt for women. You just watched a video made by a man who showed nothing but respect for Natalie. True, we don't know him fully; but we do know that he wrote the script, shot the entire thing, kept it both detailed and informative, then chose to put it online, thus raising awareness of this entire issue. I'd argue that's pretty good. And if you have any statistics of the many men who such positive things, do share those as well. Thank you to anyone who bothered reading all this. Including you, chU62783y - assuming you did. I hope you all have a fantastic day, after passing through this rather somber hour.
The "easter eggs" in the alibi stream remind me of what they say about certain profiles of serial killer, taunting investigators to prove they're smarter than everyone else.
I think he did it for Natalie as like a little foreboding as to what will happen espiecally if he knew she was watching the “livestream”. I don’t think he wanted to get away with it he just wanted her to feel as anxious as he did about their upcoming parenthood.
@@solluxcaptor6823 agree - she had commented on one of his posts to say she would be watching it. He basically scripted her murder, including his smug sign-off that he knew she would never hear about how that Christmas would be the best ever.
I just want to cry for this poor woman, the child she must have been so excited to have, for her family who had to receive the most devastating news in a season when loved ones are supposed to be treasuring and celebrating their time together. This man was a monster and I have nothing but loathing for him. I hope he gets everything he deserves.
That's fucking terrifying to imagine... That she would be wathcing her beloved boyfriend's cute christmas livestream and then have him appear in her home, and just...Fuck.
@@ODDinaryPerson No, the timeline says people heard a woman screaming around 9pm, the James Bond poster appeared 9:26 PM, he exited the house around 9:30, so most probably he was changing clothes and washing himself at the time the poster appeared.
The fact that she watched his shitty "livestream" to support him, the very same livestream in which he glibly hints towards his plans, the very same night she was murdered by someone she trusted just broke me
Oh christ, I was just struck by the horrifying thought that, maybe that's why he filled it with all of those hints and references? All as a way of subtly putting her on edge, making her think "What does he mean? What's going on?" but not in a way she can really put her finger on. All to give her that creeping sense of unease as a part of his sadistic glee, so that his arrival would be even more terrifying. He was right. He is a sadistic bastard
@@eveoftheroses3766 and he pre-recorded this don't forget, he played this video as a "live stream" so he could go out and do it. Very easy to prove pre-meditation, even without the comments he made in the stream. Jesus. I think it was meant to be a murder suicide but he lost his bottle when it came to the last part.
I feel so bad for Natalie, I’m sure she knew it was him killing her in the moment and probably couldn’t comprehend why, especially being pregnant and expecting child together. She was probably so confused in those last few seconds of terror. What a lunatic. Thankfully his own parents weren’t alive to see that side of him.
i took a took at her twitter. saw she posted a picture of her christmas tree… 2 days before her murder. it was horrifying to see. just.. uneasy. saddening. rest in peace nat.
Why did he kill her when they were on talking terms and she still supported his childish hobbies? Not all relationships are Disney romances. Getting pregnant with his baby is a gift! He didnt have much else going on in his life. That he'd soon be a dad, regardless of how romantic his relationship with her was, he had good things coming. Was this murder just so he didnt have to PAY money for his baby? Wanted more cash for toys. What a loser. Narcissist.
@@ozmondlove how the human brain auto-fixes these random spelling errors. Like that poster that every word is misspelled, only the first and last letter is correct. Yet you can still read it perfectly… the human brain is so interesting!
My poker group played with a guy for years until his son came forward with S__ abuse allegations. Now, he is serving 24 yrs in prison. A shock to us all.
I‘m sorry that must have been low-key traumatizing. It’s so scary that we can’t know anybody fully. Not the people in our real life let alone the content creators we watch online.
Yeah an older colleague of mine was arrested and convicted for molesting and SAing his own granddaughter! What made it worse was the fact he had also done the same thing to his own daughter back in the 80’s but it happened too long ago to prosecute. I was just as mad at his daughter bc she willingly left her own child with a man who had abused herself as a child. Who would do that?!
@@Garbeaux. she did a fucked up thing, but abuse twists the mind. To her I bet her father's assault became so normal she couldn't see why he shouldn't be around his granddaughter. She's still a complicit piece of shit, but she's also a victim.
I relate to this topic way too much. Mr. Anime was my favorite UA-camr in high school. Like, I watched him religiously. And then he murdered his family.
@@nickf.747uh oh, what happened? The first album I bought was by lostprophets, probably sometime between 2002-04. I moved on to other bands about a year later, but sometimes wondered what happened to them.
About a year ago now, I found out that a friend of mine, one that I had grown close with, was a groomer and pedophile. You always *think* you can let go of those people who’ve committed atrocities until you’re actually face to face with it. Because when you’re face to face with it, you realize all the good things that are now tarnished and wish for the truth to be literally anything else. Thank you for the message about putting that positivity back out there. It’s a message people need to know.
when I was 14, my best friend got "accused" of rape. I believed him that it wasn't true, as the girl who came out about him HAD stalked him for over a year. However, I came to realize he had absolutely done it. It was horrific. I felt so ashamed, and so horrified for her that people hadn't believed her. He took advantage of her mental health troubles to hurt someone less people would believe, and took advantage of our trust towards him. Please don't blame yourself, it's hard to see coming. It's so horrifying to see someone you were so close to is a bad person, you never really get closure. Its hard to look back at fond memories and have them all tainted, it's hard to face the dissonance. I am wishing the best for you!!!
happened for one of my friend groups the _”chill gamer friend”_ was outed for attempting to assault his ex’s niece. its sickening to know that while he was being raided and investigated we were all talking and playing with him. None of us noticed at the time.
@@Fawkseyness Whoa... What a breach of trust. I wouldn't be able to move on from that, but that's me, and if you're a bigger person than me, then - good for you! I mean it. They probably did it in an *insanely* misguided attempt at "protecting" you, but holy shit, that could have ended horrifically for you! That they didn't tell you about it - that feeling of not *knowing* something so big, would be the worst part for me personally. I don't know what was worst for you. I have trust issues, so I just feel like I really, really *need* to know things. And how the hell could people talk shit about your poor cousin whose life was forever changed and ruined in many ways, and *not* the grandfather who ruined and changed it!? What the hell is wrong with them?! Sorry for saying that about your family but honestly, I wonder. Who lays the blame on the *child* and not the adult?! Anyway, hope you are doing well now. I'm truly sorry if I said something that "crossed the line", so to speak. If I did; I apologize! Hope you'll have a nice week :)
@@karak962I had a similar situation where I had a crush on this guy. I’m autistic and was less socially aware at the time. He would usually ignore me but one day he decided to get me to secretly meet him in the bathrooms and get me to dodo things in there. It was all very emotionless and hush hush. Just a short text message to go there and wait. He was finally giving me attention so I did whatever he asked and he started giving me small personal tokens of his afterwards like a reward. I later found out he had done things with a few girls and they were all unaware of eachother and all thought they had this special Secret with him, but he tried to accuse me of assaulting him once when he literally texted me demanding I get to the bathroom on time
The fact that Stephen actually went to a rally supporting women and calling for an end to violence on them is absolutely sickening. It's actually sending chills up my spine seeing his face there.
It's been my experience as a woman, that men who make a huge deal about supporting women are usually the men hurting women. They make such a big deal because it acts like a shield. I mean, after all, the man calling himself a feminist and marching alongside women for their rights, couldn't possibly be beating his wife at home or sexually harassing his female co-workers, right? It's one thing if you ask a guy "You support feminism?" and he's like "Yeah sure", It's another if a guy keeps inserting himself into feminist related things and convos (often speaking over women whom he deems not feminist enough) and bringing up the fact he's a feminist unprompted that tends to be the red flag.
You didn't know most male feminist types are snakes in the grass? Lol. Most men don't want women being harmed period but guys that try hard to convince women they care have other motives
@timewarpdrive77 So what should people who identify as male do?, Remain patriarchal and sexist?, Die out to leave an all female world?. What do you want?
that is so narcissistic! reminds me of the JCS episode with the Incel who killed his neighbor and then did TV interviews saying how much he missed her and so on.
I see it's been 6 months since this video, and I was curious on if there was any update about the trial, so I did a quick Google. If anyone wants an update; in January Stephen pleaded not guilty for the murder, and the trial is going to begin this September, which will last 3-4 weeks.
It’s crazy that he would plead not guilty honestly… this seems like an absolute slam dunk. We know he prerecorded the livestream and basically planned this. He’s the only suspect. Admittedly without DNA evidence on the body it would be hard to prove 100% he did the murder, but it couldn’t be anyone else, and the fact the faked a livestream and immediately used it as an alibi is so suspicious.
@@justanotheryoutubechannel Everything about the livestream was fucked. Then, it coincidentally lining up with how long he’d be gone for, the paths the killer took, the lengths the killer took to commit the murder and remain unseen, and the “who the hell else could it be?” factor, as he was the only one that close to her
as someone who had a friend who attempted murder, I doubt his wife even saw this coming. With every relationship, you run the risk of that person becoming someone you no longer recognize. But its not as black and white as you seem to think it is. Its not 'blind idolization' or 'question everything someone does' you simply take what a person has given you, shown you, and you make a judgement based on who you see. That's all you can do. You can have a balance of idolization and healthy critique, its not one or the other.
I often fear due to my innate short temperness which is uncurable nor treatable. Sense its a part of me, I often fight the urge in lashing out on people to "solve" issues. Some stuff in my life got effected by other people that made it worse cutting them out of my life (It started fine but this person wanted me to be with them 24/7 a day being a introvert I cannot do that all the time) reduced it and allow my Temper to go back down. Negativity only makes my condition worse. I am more effected by positive and negative emotions more greatly than anyone on the planet. Postives keeps my mood in check, negatives makes me more aggressive to being almost uncontrollable. It's not anger issues or poor management Its just part of who I am, But I found ways to keep it under wraps with music and if people leaves me alone to cool off. My Greatest fear is someone pushes my anger so far I lose myself. The only time I went crazy was only like 5 seconds because no one cared about my feelings and I laughed hysterically because I tried to express and show that I need people to listen on how I feel to talk about it, I snapped back to normal after that. My emotions go back to normal but when you are faced with so much stress in RL it gets to you. Deep down I am a Good Hearted person, I take a bullet for anyone even if it means I am gone to save another persons life. That is what keeps my anger in check is to remind myself that I was born to do good deeds not bad ones despite my bad temper. I got a very good heart but with a very bad downside a short temper. Most of my friends knows this and they understand I may burst at them if we clashed. They are amazing friends who knows I need to vent to cool myself down. In terms of actually relationships, as a Guy with my BF for many years we tend to fight once and awhile, I get very fired up around him and sometimes I do get angry at him badly at times, But it's mostly because of my innate smartness (Its a curse really being too smart) that it irritates me when people cannot understand simple concepts mainly in games. BUT despite all this I still love him greatly and that love is stronger than my hate/anger. I don't wish for my anger/short temperness to turn me into something I am not. Hence in 2023, I try to force myself to solve issues as calmly as I can without bursting a fit of rage.
@@RairosuHey, we're internet strangers but I really hope you give what I'm about to say a thought. I am like you. I was like you. I am a *very* angry person compared to the average. More intelligent than average (although fat lot of good it does us, right?) High emotional lability. Convinced that because my family is this way that it was just my nature. That having a high degree of "self-control" was the only way to get along in a world of normal/less emotionally sensitive people. My dad was bipolar and I've always been very upfront in mental health evaluations to keep an eye on symptoms fitting with that diagnosis. Psychiatrists and psychologists were *sure* that I was just depressed and anxious and have ADHD and possibly other things but I am *definitely not* bipolar because I didn't fit a certain set of criteria on a checklist. But adding mood stabilizers (given to people with bipolar disorder) to my antidepressants was a great first step in helping see that I *can* take just a second to step back from an initial angry response and stop my emotions from escalating. It gave me hope that if I put in the work I can be a better person and it is not just my immutable nature. The right medications together helped me progress with my behavioral therapy in a way that I was unable to do with my less-than-optimal brain chemistry alone. I, like you, was on my own with my symptoms of extreme anger and a lack of support from qualified professionals and unqualified people in my personal life. The only way to manage without assaulting people was to withdraw and distract myself. I had to rein in my own life and pursuits to fit my anger's shape. It wasn’t until I lived with my best friend (a man who I've seen yell only two times in our entire decade plus friendship) did I start to take it seriously. HE became a more angry, withdrawn, and stressed person when I was stressed. Our dogs were more stressed and edgy. I'd come home on my lunch break and break 2x4s in the backyard and take a cold shower before going back to work. It was unsustainable and sounds unhinged to the average person but even still now seems ok to me. But seeing my best friend's and my 1000% innocent dogs' quality of life visibly degrade just with increased interaction with me fucking broke me good. I never hurt anyone or tried to hurt anyone and I would have chosen to hurt myself over anyone else (and had if you count injuring myself during meltdowns.) But you don't have to hurt yourself OR hurt others (mentally or physically.) Please seek medical/mental help and support. Your life is not a zero-sum game where you and others have to walk on eggshells around each other and no one is getting the full range of life that they deserve. I'm 30 and it took me 28 fucking years to even start to progress on this issue. I'm a smidge better than when I started and I'm working on getting better than that. You may not be like me. But consider that you might be. Consider that you *can* be a better, happier version of you. Seek help to do so. If I'm wrong you have permission to be mad at me in the future.
@@Rairosu What have you done to try and treat this innate short temperness? Because this glimpse of you from your comment makes you sound very young, very arrogant, and very quick to dismiss what others, with more knowledge and experience, could say. "I am more effected by positive and negative emotions more greatly than anyone on the planet." Frankly, this is a gross exaggeration and simply not true. "But it's mostly because of my innate smartness (Its a curse really being too smart)" This also convinces me you are either very young, very arrogant, or both. Truly intelligent people with the maturity that comes from life experience that humbles them don't go around spouting lines like this. It also very much gives off vibes of, "Well, seeking mental help wouldn't have any point because I'm smarter than the therapists." Whatever the reality is, I truly hope you seek help for this issue, because if you can lose control as easily as you're indicating, that won't go well for you or someone else if, god forbid, you do fully snap and aren't controlling your actions.
@@davidb.6681if people spoke out more and were believed when they did so, a lot of horrible things that have happened may not have occurred I've known victims of abuse and it's always the same story for the victim, very rarely does anything happen with the abuser
I think in these situations it's good to remember that you're not at fault for enjoying somebody's content. There's no way anybody in the audience could've known, and if they had known, they wouldn't be in that audience anymore.
It isn't his fault either. I don't care if he lies in court. It is self-defense against mercilessness. To think it is incomprehensible is like Ben Shapiro being surprised that poor people are more likely to commit crimes. Ben Shapiro: "um shouldn't the threat of poverty prevent anyone from committing a crime? WHAT?" I'm not political, you are. The people who are on natalis's side are and on the wrong side.
@@menjolno What the fuck are you even talking about? Regardless of what drove him to such a crime, what did his girlfriend and unborn child have to do with it? What point are you even trying to make here? He's a monster for doing what he did and there's no reason to try inserting politics into it.
@@Spacccee no need to worry. less than 1 percent of deaths are from murder when less than 1 percent of deaths are from gun: "how about the murderous cars?" when less than 1 percent of deaths are from murder: " Somehow, I feel like ..."
This reminds me when Nobuhiro Watsuki was found to be a pedo. I was obsessed with Rurouni Kenshin as a depressed teen and the work genuinely affected my views. My first forum online was an RK forum and it's the reason I started socializing with other anime nerds, which is where I met most of my friends. I learned to sew clothing to make Rurouni Kenshin cosplays. It was so part of my personality that when it came out, many of my friends expressed their condolences to me. The thing is, my other main hyperfixation is Doctor Who...
years ago I was in a clinic for my eating disorder. I had a friend there, he was just a year older, being 17, and we got along really well. We talked about everything and anything, and I considered him a friend that I trusted. One evening we were sitting on the balcony when he opened up about having issues with the police and that he couldn't allow himself a slip up or else he might face jail. They were "light" on him because he was still a minor, but then he told me the reason why. It was because he owned CP. And since then I couldn't see him the same way. I didn't like talking to him anymore, I didn't want to share any personal stuff. Not long after he started a "secret relationship" with my 14 year old roommate. Yeah. Haven't conacted him since leaving the clinic.
@@eshbena in my country the age of consent is 14 and at that point he was still a minor himself, but we informed the staff. I left shortly after, looks like nothing came of it though. I hope therapy got through to him and that he does not continue that terrible behavior, now it is truly illegal that he is an adult
@@featherelfstrom8405 they didn't last (luckily!!) and I believe are zero contact now. Not so fun update though is that about a day ago I saw him post that he had (probably?) obtained a license to carry weapons, and apparently also a gun. Back then I joked that I wouldn't be surprised to see him on a wanted post on TV, but I didn't know how close I might be with that. It just completely messes one up when one realizes they have crossed paths with a criminal and once trusted them.
The whole incident sounds like something from a dark comedy film; a guy using a faked livestream to kill his loved one, and he loads the prerecorded footage with obvious hints about what he’s actually doing. It’s like the Key and Peele rapper sketch but in real life
Something like this has definitely been done in many detective shows, with different technology of course. Columbo in particular was always fascinated by the new technologies of its time, if it were still around they would have surely done something like this (it went on from the 1960s to the 1990s).
I was once watching a documentary about global hunger that was abruptly interrupted by a KFC ad that featured a chicken bucket that the camera kept rapidly zooming in and out on while an enthusiastic voice announced "Bottomless Chicken Bucket!". Then the ad stopped and the documentary resumed showing skeletal children with bloated stomachs.
From the name of the stream itself, to the fake laughter, to the puns, to the topics talked about..... It's almost like he WANTED to get caught. Like he just didn't care anymore. Truly unhinged. Edit: Well then... Guess I plagiarized the video before watching it fully. Whoops.
I can't tell whether he wanted to be caught, or he was just that cynical/arrogant. His murder plan was sloppy anyway, but surely he'd realize how unconvincing that live stream was after even the smallest bit of scrutiny. Did he just think he was smarter than he actually was?
@@flarestorm9417 I honestly think he was just being drunk and arrogant. Kind of like how some criminals want to be cool for being a criminal, and do subtle brags thinking no one's really listening. I think he just thought he was smarter than everyone else, and thought that this stream was such an ace in the hole, it didn't matter if he made a few sly remarks or not.
@@flarestorm9417many criminals suffer from the Dunning Kruger syndrome, if you watch true crime cases you'll know it's not unusual (but maybe it's a skewed perception, since the dumb ones are the ones that get caught).
@@trapadvisor If you feel guilty enough to want to be caught before you even do the crime, then you probably wouldn't have done the crime in the first place
living in northern ireland, this case is quite famous here i had no idea he was a youtuber. its really horrible, but im glad more people are talking about it. it really shook the community here. rip natalie
Being an emo on early UA-cam means I’ve felt being betrayed by UA-camrs too many times. Onision, Social Repose, Shane Dawson, Jeffree Star… just a handful.
i've felt the same in the 7 or so years i've been into alternative music, allegation after allegation coming out against the people whos music got me though the worst times of my life is so disheartening because i doubt most if any are false
@@mushroom_dance5219There are some professions that predators are drawn to. Musicians can appeal to anyone with internet and they travel a lot, making crime tracking more difficult. I know your pain, man. These bastards manipulated us all.
As a former Nerimon/Alex Day, Luke Conard, Alex Carpenter, Jason Munday, and Mike Lombardo fangirl in early UA-cam nerdfighter circles, I had to learn so early that people really can disappoint you in parasocial relationships. Then I learned it again with Mandopony, which was even weirder because he followed me on Tumblr and Twitter for about two years starting in 2013 until I pretty much went inactive in those fanbases. It's why you really can't put anyone on a pedestal. At all. Because anyone could be hiding their true colors when it comes down to it.
Goodness, I'm only glad his parents have passed already so that they never had to witness what a monster their son had become. Truly tragic. 😔 Rest in Peace Natalie. You didn't deserve the fate you received, and I pray you get justice. 🙏
@ravenID429 I wondered that too. He asked for money and sympathy after. If he got away with it, he would've done the same. In fact, he kinda started it by showing up to the rally.
I spent a couple of nights at the man's house a few years ago to assist with the recording of the Antweight Anarchy International Inferno as well as his review of the Doctor Who episode The Ghost Monument. He was a fine host to me back then but even then I could tell he had some anger issues going on. A year later he seemed to become a bit more antagonistic towards myself and a few others in our circle of friends involved with robot combat. With all this in mind I'm still shocked that he would go on to allegedly - at the time of this comment - commit such an irredeemably evil act, it's so horrible to think about. I had to edit his likeness out of a Robot Wars themed chapter of my webcomic as well as remove the blurb he wrote on the back of one of the book collections too. Whatever the outcome of the case, I sincerely hope justice will be done for Natalie and her family.
It wont affect the outcome much except its effective evidence. Its life imprisonment for murder either way, no degrees or anything like that. What an idiot though.
@@Ukraineaissance2014Yeah when my friend was murdered, her killer tried to appeal his sentence because the prosecution tried to establish pre-meditation. Luckily the pile of evidence against him was so vast so it stuck.
@Ukraineaissance2014 guaranteed life imprisonment for murder? Here in the states the punishments after conviction have ranged from 2 years to death penalty, it's wild seeing other countries on it
@@skylergarza8371 yes but you have two kinds of life here in the UK, the average life sentence which is in practice around 20 years, and whole life tariff such as the one just recently given to lucy letby which means prison until death. Northern ireland is also slightly different with sentencing, infact they still had the death penalty through the 70s (also lots of whole lifers were released for the good friday agreement there). Due to the violence of the crime, planning and judges really wanting to make examples of high profile killers of women at the moment due to a couple of recent cases I think he will get 30 years before he can apply for parole. Life is the mandatory starting point. Parole is also never guaranteed. We also dont do degrees of murder here, but putting planning into it and other evil stuff like he did will likely to get you that 30 to full life tariff, whereas a drunk fight with a friend ending with a killer punch or similar it could be down at around 15. But yes you are right, its more predictable here while in the US its more common to go to either extremes of sentencing. 24 Hours in Police Custidy is a great series about this stuff.
Actually I was reading about Leadbelly earlier (blues singer who was discovered in prison in the US if you havnt heard about him) and it used to be even crazier back in the day for weird sentencing. You could be hanged or like him do 5 years on a chain gang then get a governers pardon, pretty much dependent on how they felt the day of sentencing.
I dont watch him much anymore, but Markiplier really was a huge part of my childhood. And on the rare occasion that I do watch him it’s just as I remember it, and I’m never disappointed. Parasocial relationships are weird but almost unavailable. If you spend enough of your time watching someone regularly, even though you DONT actually know them, it’s hard to not feel like you don’t still think you do. Even though I rarely watch him anymore he’s still my favorite UA-camr just by virtue of the memories I have with his content, and I can still watch a video from time to time and enjoy it from beginning to end. If he did something terrible and wicked I imagine I would be quite devastated, and I’m not sure how it would feel to look back on my childhood after that. But I also imagine like with everything else life goes on.
Markiplier is like one of the only youtubers I purposely watch anymore, otherwise its just whatever random videos are on my recommended, like this one. I've been watching mark for so many years now that if something ever came out about him I think I'd lose what little hope i have in humankind. So many other youtubers I've loved watching and played a big part in my childhood have turned out to be terrible people (Miniladd... Ohmwrecker, Wilbursoot, some others I can't think of at the moment) or just straight up died somehow (Etika, Technoblade). If it ever turns out that he has done something atrocious, or if he just dies, or even retires, I think I'm done with youtube. Also friend I think you mean inevitable not unavailable.
This is an absolutely chilling exposé of a truly horrifying crime that was uniquely orchestrated in the age of the Internet. Your presentation was professional, gripping, and engaging. A subscription well-earned! On a more personal note, I'm sorry you had to go through the process of seeing an inspirational figure revealed to be such a monster. That kind of grief is always difficult to process. Your statements toward the end were especially profound. Thank you for sharing your perspective!
Love your perspective, as it's easy to forget in "UA-camr commits crime" cases that these people had audiences who actually watched them, enjoyed them, and who get betrayed when they do something evil.
I remember watching the infamous faked livestream when it was happening, I laughed at a couple jokes but eventually started to realise he didn't sound right. I eventually got uninterested from the bad jokes and started to watch something else. When he released his new review on the recently released 13th doctor toy I was ecstatic! I watched with awe and laughed at many of the jokes he made. When the video had finished I scrolled down and started to read the comments... and that's when I started to find out about what he did, I was disgusted. Seeing the comments that were posted on the video, especially from the celestial toymaker I started to get extremely upset. I ended up staying off UA-cam for the rest of the day after making my own comment on the matter under the video.
Honestly that intro was so dope, I know it's pretty unrelated to everything else but just seeing you name all these different dope UA-camrs from all kinds of genres made me smile
I wasn't a viewer of Stephen's videos but this case was huge in Ireland right from the offset. A pregnant woman being murdered in the days leading up to Christmas captured the public's attention and it was all over the news in the few weeks before Stephen was charged. Thank you for adding your personal familiarity to the case
It's wild to see it gained so much media attention. My local news has new homicides to report on almost once a week and that's just for a section of my state. Some cases gain more notoriety than others but even then it's impossible to keep up with all of them. One of them was even an old classmate and she received a couple mentions one week but that was it. Then again this is in the USA so guns are easy to access through either legal or illegal means.
cryaotic was my "don't get too attached" moment. he was basically a comfort youtuber for me, his vtmb series was go-to background noise. i loved "cry reads," i cried at the end of his rakuen series, I'd watched his corpse party series in full at least two or three times. i was really hoping for more vampyr when he released the "let's talk" video. i was appalled and kind of... heartbroken? i remember the comments generally having a sentiment of forgiveness, but it wasn't really theirs to give. i can only imagine that was hard to see for the people he hurt & used, and i hope they're all doing well today. thankfully, I was less emotionally invested in iilluminaughtii. I'd been noticing a significant drop in the quality of her videos over time - mispronunciations, lines from the script repeated accidentally, an accumulation of simple mistakes. the tone shifted from exposés to gossip & nitpicking. it was like the videos were just being thoughtlessly churned out. so when another youtuber I watch, big joel, made a short video about her accusing legal eagle of plagiarism, that's when I unsubbed & stopped watching. as the situation continued to unfold, it was _staggering_ just how awful she truly was.
Mine was Mini Ladd. I thought he was hilarious. He gave me joy in so many dark moments, I witnessed people freaking propose to one another in his livestreams! And then suddenly I noticed he hadn't uploaded in a while. Suddenly strange comments were appearing under past videos and then...the response came out. And it was over. I was devastated. I couldn't imagine what his victims felt I this is what I was going through.
I used to love Creepshow Art. A lot of people said they “always thought she was annoying” when she got exposed, but I genuinely thought she was funny and I liked her more aggressive tone, not to mention her art, which I thought was really unique. But I genuinely cannot believe how insane she ended up being. Stalking, harassing and abusing someone for like a decade and saying they should have their kids taken away?? Just awful.
The fact that he attended the rally, surrounded by hundreds of genuine victims and victim's families makes me sick to my stomach. I can't begin to imagine the denial, the pain, and the surge of feelings many of those, like yourself, experienced when this news surfaced. What a sick, terrifying individual.
@@KenediPollard Absolutely. they left this comment on like 9 other peoples comments and you just have to wonder how insensitive and spineless they've got to be to act like that about someone's actual murder - Talk about terminally online
Very much felt. While I'll go more into it in the video in question, I too was practically raised on his stuff during my teen years. I hope what I've made here is able to voice some of the awful/conflicting feelings that you, I, and so many others have.
@@SpacemanScott yeah boohoo you used to look up to a murderer but what about the woman he literally stabbed to death? don't see a single moment dedicated to her in the video that's not attached to the perpetrator, or one to bring awareness to HOW COMMON it is for women to get murdered by their partners, specially if they're pregnant. the women's aid segment is appreciated, but it's the video's CLOSING MOMENT. you literally spent more time talking about modification madness than you did natalie. you yourself acknowledge in the video that it's priviledged as fuck to focus on the perspective of a fan of his content. i understand the point you wanted to make, and it has merit, but this video comes off INCREDIBLY exploitative and insensitive, specially considering that it's making you a profit unless the adsense is donated. good point, good concept, but this should've stayed in the drafts.
@potatopotayto8332 I understand your points and general argument, but I think it's very important that this video didnt stay in the drafts. Now I dont think I'm all that great with words, so my argument wont be as thorough. I understand how it can be frustrating that he doesn't talk about how common these kinds of crime happen, but the video wasn't entirely about how murder is horrible. It was more about how people you love and trust can turn out to be the lowest scum of the earth and how terrible it feels when you find out. I'm not trying to undermine the murder, in fact I think it'd be good to see a video talk more in depth about the topic of this violence against woman. Though I think it's good that he talked about it at all. I know that I personally would've never known about this horrendous act if it wasn't for this video, and after reading through this comment section there are a lot more people who wouldn't have known either; so for that I think that this video needed to be made.
This case is especially dark and impossible to comprehend because there were seemingly no warning signs. Even the last text exchange between Stephen and Natalie sounded like a normal couple saying good night to each other, no signs of hostility or anger whatsoever. Its the sheer senselessness of the murder, I can't comprehend why he would do this
Purely speculation on my part, but i feel like he craved attention and wanted people to feel sorry for him and maybe even use it for some kind of financial gain, like he did with his parents. It would not surprise me if he played a part in the deaths of his own parents.
the worst similar case of things I've watched, was JewWario from Channel Awesome. I stayed up late, in tears watching the livestream of his fellow creators eulogizing him after his suicide. And then years later, it came out that he was actually a sexual predator (and his suicide may have been related to him being afraid of that being revealed). It was a massive gut punch.
I remember that one. I used to be a big Channel Awesome fan, but after all that and all the other allegations came to light I couldn't bring myself to watch them again. Still haven't to this day and it just makes me sad to think about.
TBH, deleting the channel would be deleting possible evidence leading to the crime. We are not entirely sure if he hinted at stuff way before he made up his mind. Also, deleting it is erasing the fact that we should remember that anyone could snap and you won't notice it in-time. It's like a warning.
I don’t see why it shouldn’t be, he didn’t violate youtubes terms of service. The videos he made are still entertaining and comforting to some people because someone’s actions does not retroactively cause their prior content to be less entertaining.
The image of Stephen in the crowd amongst the others rallying against violence is so chilling. I am reminded once again that you could be walking down the street, and pass by a murderer, or more.. and you would never know. We all look like humans, and you honestly cannot know the full truth behind someone, not even people you know on a personal level.
Yeah my little brother told me he murdered someone. He’s a lanky goofy meme Lord most of the time but I know what he’s actually capable of. We don’t talk anymore.
@SobrietyandSolace- Did you convey his "admission" to the proper authorities? If not, I highly recommend you do. Did he realistically steal another individuals life? No. Is it incredibly hard to betray a loved one by reporting them? Yes. Are police often condescending, rude, and committed to doing less than the bare minimum required of them when processing a serious report? HELL YEA. But, if you haven't reported your sibling, I still encourage you to do so for A. Your own sense of well-being and B. To potentially prevent an admittedly highly unlikely tragedy from taking place in the future. No judgement here and I'm sorry if the above screen annoyed you/made you feel angry or poorly about yourself. Unfortunately, I have some experience with this stuff (NOT a murdering sibling, thank God.) and understand what a no-win situation you must be in. May God bless (This is NOT to force my beleiefs-If you are an atheist, more power to you! I freaking hate evangelists. I may be undeservedly smug and sel-righteous, but at least proselytization isn't one of my many, many, MANY faults/failures.) you and may you do what's best for YOU!
For a few years i followed a Gta youtuber called JKgamers, he was arrested two years back for sexual offences against a minor...i was blown away. You never know what goes on behind the camera. Respect for the video, keep on being you.
As someone who once called him a personal friend i am interested in this video, when the news hit i was speechless, i reached out to mutual friends we had, looking back there were signs The biggest question i have is what led to this event... You got a Sub from me, keep up the good work Edit: I'm halfway through and i gotta stop for now as it's very emotional still, for those of wondering the case is adjourned until November 3rd This video is exactly what was needed at the time, seeing all these big people talk about it and while i know it was hard for those in the community/ peers / this video is well worth the wait
I'm sorry. It's not your fault, you couldn't have changed anything - people will do what they want when they want and nothing anyone says will change that (unless it's therapy.. sometimes it works). I'm just sorry you're going through this as much as the relatives of Natalie. I hope with the court case you can find closure.
@@MaxRide1 thank you, while i am international and never met in person it was still a massive shock, it took me a day or 2 to process it and to get back to normal, he has lost all my respect he ever had and i have been following the case closely, Nat's family went through much more, i'm just a guy who happened to get lucky with one of their fave youtubers, there is much more to be said when details come available
I’d heard about this months ago, but I never knew the details and this is so unbelievably disturbing. Just the fact that he orchestrated things so that the stream would show “No Time To Die” on screen while he was murdering her, I just can’t wrap my head around how evil that is. The more I think about it, the more sick I feel. The man planned out the murder of someone who loved him, someone he was supposed to love, and he did so down to the minute so that her death would could coincide with a celebration of/reference to it that he had prepared a week in advance. What kind of a monster does that?
I'm sitting in my room staring at a decade old 12th Doctor Tardis toy I sloppily modified because of how much I loved his videos and I'm not gonna lie I feel like I'm gonna throw up. You did a great job with this video and I genuinely agree with the message but this is extremely hard to process
You own the experience you have with the media you consume. No one else but you know yourself, being a fan of something is not devotional (often is a blend of devotion and personal joy). I wish you the best 😔
In a DnD campaign I'm in I play a master type charachter. Hes an awful person who has needlessly murdered several people and covered it all up. He had his own "sonic wand" and I custom made it IRL using his modification madness videos. Now it just feels weird. I used a murderer's videos to make a murderers tool. 😨😨
One of my favorite books used to be The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley. It's a feminist retelling of King Arthur's story and I was obsessed with it. One of its protagonist, Morgana Le Fay, spoke to me like no other character. I loved her so much. However, I haven't been able to reread the book since I knew her author was accused by her own daughter of abuse (including SA), neglect and basically the most horrifying things you can do to other human beings. And what once was my favorite book contains easter eggs of her behavior and believes, hidden behind plausible deniability. Your video helped me to feel less alone in this, although I don't think I'm there yet and I don't know when I will but thank you.
Good on you for not doing that "I was *never* a fan really" people often do when their fave celebrities do something wrong. Shows you have a lot of integrity.
I don't know why people feel so guilty about it when often there was no way they could've known. Just admit that you enjoyed their work and thought they had a great on-screen personality, and feel disappointed with their real-life personality. I mean, I have felt pretty guilty about the 'anti-sjw' youtubers I used to watch way back, but that's because their shittiness wasn't hidden and I watched them because I also held some of those shitty opinions, so that's not really the same.
I`m a woman and this is exactly one of the reasons I`m worried about ever living alone. Imagine the attention to detail and planning this had to have taken. And for his pregnant girlfriend to be the victim too. That`s nightmare fuel.
I don't want to make you feel worse but a lot of women are killed by their partner in their home or when they try to leave so living alone can be safer than living with a partner sometimes. :/ it's a scary world. But there are good people out there too
@@bookshelfhoney Such is the hedgehog's dilemma. It would not be a dilemma if there was never any risk in letting someone close enough to love. But never let it sour you utterly or reduce you to reclusive fear, for there is good in the world still.
You are far more likely to be killed by a boyfriend or husband than by a rando breaking in. If you want to go for the safest option, live alone and remain celibate.
ngl i agree with another commenter. being afraid to live alone is understandable, but what we should be more afraid of is living with a man. out of all murdered women, most had known their murderer in life - you can look up different years and different countries, this number is always around 60% to 70%. so technically, living alone and spending time alone is definitely safer.
It's honestly crazy how these kinds of plans always have their "fatal flaw". It always felt like poor writing in detective stories, but even in real life the most meticulous plans get found out by tiny details. Imagine how much stronger his case could've been if he had considered things like waiting to dispose of his clothes until more time had passed, or left his phone on in his home while he was doing it instead of having it off the whole time then turning it back on right when he got back.
I mean it is really hard to get away with a crime there's just infinite little factors and details to consider that could instantly get you incriminated. Especially in our digital, data driven age. To successfully commit a crime (PSA: don't.) you have to be very lucky (police not giving a shit, some very convenient circumstances to utilize, an unlucky person to frame, etc.) and preferably very far from the civilization. It's just a very dumb thing to attempt. The killers are usually very impulsive, reckless, thrill seeking people with anger issues and sadistic tendencies so they don't really care about this kinda stuff. So yeah most crimes out there aren't really some meticulously crafted detective stories but rather just people being violent assholes with poor self control and a grudge.
If the"live" stream would've just been less stuffed with references of murder and had been more coherently planned out, then it would've at least bought him just a little more time.
@@dagda1180 i think he *wanted* people to know he did it because I just can't believe he was this stupid to think that he could use such a suspicious stream as his alibi and get away with it. Unless no one bothered to actually watch it. The single fact that he allegedly had a sudden technical problem that never occurred to him before(does this specific type of problem even exist? why didn't he at least try to fix it?) is sussy enough even without the references. And the fact that this stream was completely unplanned...
I was a VoteSaxon07 fan, much like you, when I was of a similar age. To say I was shocked about this sad, dark, and seemingly unexpected turn of events is an understatement. In a strange way, I guess I feel numb about it, because you know that there are horrible people who present as nice, or 'normal' and then will do something that you think is out of character, but it's their true nature. Moral of the story is to expect people to let you down, because they always do.
I think as you grow older, a common lesson that is learned is that the people who you grow to like or love may not always be good people. It can be extremely personal like your parents, or even complete strangers such as your favorite UA-camr. I never heard of VoteSaxon07, but his story reminds me of similar figures in my life: Miniladd, Mr. Anime, SkyDoesMinecraft, Cryoatic, Arcadum, Fedmyster. Not only are they very egregious people to varying degrees, but it shatters that innocence you once felt. It’s as if the world becomes a lot more darker. I think a message I’d add upon this video is that the world isn’t black and white. Hell, it isn’t even gray. The world is full of color that includes everything from the brightest of sunshine yellow to the darkest of blacks. There are bad people in the world, and some of which you will idolize. The best thing to do is simply mourn what you lost, and paint over it with a new beautiful color. The remnants are still there, but at least they don’t consume you.
You have such a way with words, it's amazing. You would be a great youtuber yourself honestly. Sorry for the out of pocket compliment, your comment was just too well written to go without praise.
The worst part is even the people who seem like they should be better than that turn out to be some of the worst. one of my favorite philosophy (?) youtubers turned out to be an abuser and a r*pist
happened to me and Cryotic. Was so upset when he decided to be a child predator. sickening. I feel like SO MANY youtubers are into children recently and its so scary and gross.
I feel like a lot of men in our every day lives, men we are close to, would be child predators if given the chance… You can’t trust anyone. What happens (I think) is that when these male youtubers get a huge following over the years, they will be more pressured to give their audience what they want and not be able to make videos for fun and enjoy it like they use to. At some point it becomes all about what the viewers want and how to gain more viewers. So essentially they will feel some level of powerlessness and when a young and naive fan becomes close to them, who puts them on a pedestal, it will feel like a way to gain back some of their control by taking advantage of this young fan. Pair that with how emotionally stunted and immature some UA-camrs seem, they’ll justify it in their head that they’re not doing anything wrong (like the gross Colleen ballinger who was adamant on how she didn’t “do” anything and probably made herself believe that encouraging young children to take photos of their naked parts wasn’t as bad as physically abusing them). Also, the more power you give someone the more he will be convinced he can get away with. I guess that’s the best way I can explain it and it still terrifies me that any UA-camr you look up to, is able to commit such horrendous acts. But that goes for anyone in your social circle and even your family that you think you might know, we can never really know.
@@udontevenwannaknowbruv ot just men. sexual abuse of minors by women is actually quite common, too. it's just not talked about much. which is also why quite a few of the recent scandals were in fact female youtubers who are pedos.
I remember interacting with him in comments, raging with him against UA-cam's overzealous copyright striking, watching the video about his mum dying and offering my condolences, talking about the state of Doctor Who, and making it a tradition to watch his new years eve videos every year, even after I stopped watching the channel. From about the ages 12-14, he was one of the most prominent UA-camrs I watched, and with him being a small creator especially, it made it feel like he was one of your friends. Every now and then, I checked in on his channel to see how he was doing and it felt just like catching up with an old friend. And now reflecting on the role he played in my life as a young teenager, the time feels tainted. I am shocked over this, I would never have thought he'd be capable of it. He always came across as a funny but sad individual, like the archetypal sad clown, but I never thought he was this dangerous and this sick. I've donated to woman's aid as a small token of retribution for supporting and engaging with Stephen and in the knowledge that they help women escape the clutches of evil men like him. What happened to Natalie McNally shouldn't have to happen to anybody, and if we can help in some small way to support charities that get women out of these kinds of relationships before its too late, then we should. My thoughts are with her friends and family, may she rest in peace.
Everyone is capable of evil unfortunately, the best way to look at it is to have what he was to you be like a separate person, after all people can change a lot.
@@amcats1149 write an essay somewhere else, lady. my point wasn't that he was wrong to say men can be victims too, because they obviously can, it's that these people only bring up male victims so they have the opportunity to downplay female victims' suffering and shift the topic away from female victims.
@@ReiAnikaAyanami dude everyone is equal in suffering. Sadly, most of the time women are victims. Like I said my Aunt was a victim so I apologize if it seems like I’m downplaying female victims.
One of my favorite UA-camrs at one Point was ApolloLegend. I was just getting into Speedrunning and his Videos were always a delight for me. He wasnt a monster, but a terminally ill young man that could not handle the pain anymore and took his own life. Something died within me the day i found out.
I know you said you didn't wanna make this video about you, but honestly telling this story from your personal perspective is a poignant message to not get too parasocial. Thank you.
As someone who has met both Jimjamatic and Stephen, I can attest that what Jim is saying is correct. Stephen was a key figure in our robotic combat community
I think it’s worth acknowledging that parasociality is not inherently bad- but it is dangerous. There’s a way to l accept it as both an inevitability and a potential force for good while understanding the potential pitfalls and hazards, both from a creator perspective and that of an audience member. Ultimately I just don’t think the “Schrodinger’s Murderer/Abuser/Nonce” approach is necessarily healthier than allowing oneself to trust and risk being betrayed again and again- the latter sets you up for acute pain, the former for emotional paralysis. Developing fondness and empathy so readily is one of the best things humanity has going for us, and while we should exercise caution I don’t really think it’s productive to suggest that this capacity is something we need to exorcise, if that makes sense. At the same time, it’s important to bring horrible situations like this to light so we can face the dark side of that totality as well. Good video. 👏
This is actually how I found out about this. I've watched his stuff on and off for nearly 13 years at this point and insane to think how this ended. I had seen that he stopped uploading but I just was taking a break, he mentioned in a video that he was struggling because of some algorithm thing. I didn't look into it and could never imagine something like this. When it comes to youtuber scandals I expect racist comments or sexual misconduct, which are obviously bad but they aren't murdering your pregnant girlfriends and laughing about on a stream. That's insane.
I’d say this is one of the most shocking exposures because there was nothing in his content that made you think he could be someone that twisted behind the scenes nor have signs of cracks in the mask. Miniladd’s was pretty shocking but there were cracks going on with his public persona when he answered why he’s not with Vanoss and the crew anymore on a livestream; you could tell something was up with him before the shit really hit the fan. Steven? You wouldn’t know anything was up. He wasn’t grooming minors (Mini), being a Crypto Bro (Too many to specify), selling scams (Established Titles anyone), fabricating evidence against someone else (Creepshow Art and her clique) or being a lolcow (Yandere Dev) that would be breaking news on UA-cam at the first hour. As far as I recall, he was never involved in any drama that’s public.
dude same, im just now seeing this and to think i went back to binge some of my favorite old videos and was wondering what happened to the channel only months ago and now seeing this is just a major shock.
@rayvenkman2087 Or you know, there weren't any carcks because he wasn't wearing a mask? I find it interesting how people always tend to think of these things as hidden monsters coming to light. People are much more complex, much more deep - and thus capable of more than you'd think. Don't fall into the comfortable trap of thinking there are monsters amongst people - there are always only just people - with all that that entails.
This situation occupies such a weird space in my head... Not only did I always watch Steven as a kid, but I'm from the same part of the world as him. Like I see this CCTV footage and I KNOW where he is, I've BEEN on half of these streets Feels strange tbh
She didn't do what this dude did, but the end of your video really reminded me of how I felt about iilluminaughtii. She used to be my favorite youtuber until all the allegations broke this summer. Now I just feel hurt and embarrassed I ever liked her content. Sometimes you can throw it all away. It depends on what the creator did.
@@iibnbiibn Well... A lot of stuff. *A lot.* To resume: she stole a lot of content on UA-cam, she has a tendancy of falsely accused anyone of terrible things (example: she accused The Click of protecting a groomer on his server but the truth is he is Swedish and, when the groomer had been call out and obliterated out of existence, was sleeping), bullied people both on Internet and both IRL when she was a student, etc... And trust me, seeing how this person truly is, the Rabbit Hole is at its limits to be endless.
also a pattern of emotionally and financially abusing young men, repeatedly hiring and getting them to depend on her so she can emotionally abuse and isolate them. @@iibnbiibn oh also she owns a crypto farm lmao
@@iibnbiibn she also has a history of pressuring younger friends and partners into ill-advised financial decisions that consistently benefitted her, and included a former friend's s**cide note in her response video to prove a point.
Jesus Christ. I''d not heard of this case before, but the way that man left goddamn murder "easter eggs" in his fake alibi stream is so supremely fucked up. A previous answer of "who's your favorite UA-camr?", for me, would've been Cryaotic. His actions weren't as vile as this man's, but I was still heartbroken when some of the shit he did got revealed. Thank you for this video and for the compassion and respect you rightfully treated the subject matter with.
someone else here in the comment section speculated he might've planned it as a murder suicide so he didn't care that much about being found out and he just wanted the morbid fame of his last theatrical 'pose', and he just got cold feet after murdering her. Complete speculation of course.
The UA-cam algorithm is strange, I had no idea that it was about Natalie McNally until I saw the opening segment which had the plane G-UFCG, I recognised it as an Ulster Flying Club (UFC) aeroplane then realised what this was about. I live in Northern Ireland in a village near Lisburn, where Stephen McCullagh resides. Of course we were well aware of the case, but I always dismissed him as just some obscure UA-camr. This is actually an interesting perspective from someone who likes him, which I never thought of him having any meaningful following, so thank you for this. I know my anecdotes are absolutely trivial, but I thought I'd share them anyway. The case has shaken us here. I go to the college that Natalie McNally studied at, and once I was waiting for an exam and an older woman was passing by and pointed out a wall display. It was just a standard advertisement for the college, but it had a picture of Natalie in it. I was also taking a driving lesson and drove past the court once where he was and it was swarming with members from the press. My driving instructor told me what was happening and how absolutely disgusted he was about it. Anyway, thank you for this insight from a viewer's perspective. I was completely unaware that such a thing even existed. Edit: I think when I saw the picture on the wall, we probably didn't even know who the suspect was at this point.
Nothing could have prepared me for this. I never knew this man. Thought you were gonna say "ah he fell awf, said a couple of slurs and has become unlikeable over the years" but holy /fuck/ this was way worse. I'm speechless. R.I.P. Natalie. Edit: this comment was made right after the video being posted, at which moment it was named "votesaxon07 and the fate of the idolized youtuber". This is why I commented like I didn't know the subject matter of it. It was later changed to it's current title. I hope this clarifies things.
@@juarezamorim to be honest while the twist title is extemely good i would not have clicked on this video if it wasn't "my favorite youtuber was a murderer" i respect the clickbait game
Getting older it's hard not to throw everything away with a "burn your heroes" mentality. I appreciate that you're encouraging everyone to put that joy and happiness and excitement that they got from these people back out into the world. Maybe our old heroes were monsters, but that doesn't mean we have to give up. This was a hard video to watch, and harder to make I'm sure. Thanks for putting it out there.
Not nearly as dark, but learning that Gus Johnson was a horrible abusive partner to Sabrina and didn’t even have the decency to be with her when she was having emergency life-threatening surgery and accepting the loss of their child (it was an ectopic pregnancy) was devastating for me. I pride myself in having a strong discernment for shady UA-camrs at this point, and Gus always came off as a small town guy with a good sense of humor (and the occasional intense opinion/rant on things like door dash). He really reminded me of my hometown and gave me comfort when I felt homesick, and he paired so well with Eddy Burback I loved their podcast of two wholesome guys. It was doubly betraying to see his audience, one I thought I was a part of, completely devolve into incel rage when Sabrina posted her story (without even naming Gus) I can’t even watch the few episodes left anymore knowing what he did. I can’t even go to his channel without feeling disgusted, even more so that he continues to post like nothing ever happened. I don’t normally get so hurt but I genuinely had to mourn the loss of that for a while, and it sucks that Eddy was clearly so hurt as well by it.
I feel the exact same. I thought he was a reasonable guy, it was such a shock to find out he was the complete opposite of who I thought he was. same goes for the fans who defended him. I trusted that guy to make good decisions as much as you can reasonably trust a stranger on the internet :(
I too pride myself on having good discernment, and I hate this aspect of the internet that you can’t just watch a comedy video or animal video anymore or else something terrible might be presented to you in connection with it. The comedy creator gets outed for xyz and the next animal video that’s recommended to you is abuse p-rn. UA-cam breaks my faith in humanity over its knee.
My friends and I found him streaming on Twitch doing an unboxing stream, and the second one of my friends said "wife check", she got banned. He is actually deranged. And all the people in his chat were calling US stupid for that lmao
@@tristantries9211 Maybe you should do the research yourself before implying that someone could be lying. I mean seriously? Lying about a medical issue like that, are you dumb? Don't you realize that if that's the case, Gus would call her out immediately? Why would a sane person even consider doing something like that...
Scott, your voice is smoooooth. I did not know he recorded her parents, that is beyond creepy because it is so calculating...and also smart, but mostly horrifying. When monsters take their mask off it is often heartbreaking. Also, you have an attractive face and know how to coif yourself nicely. It's always nice to see a man who knows how to look put together. Subscribed!
That live stream is so deeply frightening. The references…. It’s gonna haunt me a bit. I know how it feels to find out that one of your favorite UA-camrs is a sick freak or a monster, if feels really gross especially if they’ve inspired your humor, creative work, or outlook on life.
@@BoundlessEnnuiIt’s probably because of “guilt by association.” People can feel terrible when they realize their inspirations were coming from a horrible person. Yeah, there’s separating art from the artist, but you still can’t help but feel a little guilty when you remember the person who made it. Sure, it’s nothing, and ultimately does no harm as long as you aren’t directly supporting the terrible creator, but sometimes it’s hard to shake those feelings.
Sometimes it gets to the point where one has to treat the online persona as a character and to separate the character from the real person playing them. One can like the online persona while loathing the real person behind it. Sometimes it's easier said than done with some people, depending on the severity of the misdeed.
I have no idea who this is but I’m watching anyways, and I wasn’t surprised that his girlfriend was pregnant. The second leading cause of death for pregnant women is homicide.
Gonna be more common, in the US at least, with the overturning of Roe V Wade and the 'crusade' against planned parenthood and sex education in general. So fucking bleak
@@Yixdy This is in Britain and has nothing to do with an American court case that allows a nation 2,000 miles away to have smaller State areas create rules around abortion, come on. Give a thought to Natalie, not begin on about a "crusade against sex education in general" in another country. What's this got to do with sex ed? Just one touch of sensitivity. A "planned parenthood" means something else in the USA than it does to me in the UK because it means that the parenthood was planned, ie, not accidental, so there would be no need for abortion. American-centric thinkers win again, even on cases in ol' Blighty.
@@AdamOwenBrowning bro, giving a thought to Natalie would be to try and keep this from happening again and supporting other women, regardless of where they are you fucking twat. Not just "oh, the poor lass, such a shame innit. Oh well, back to top gear repeats and tea." That shit helps no one and nothing, besides maybe yourself to make you feel better and think "I'm so empathetic, go me." Fuck that, these things happen constantly and WILL get worse if things aren't done about it
@@AdamOwenBrowningwas the original comment talking exclusively about the UK? no? oh, it was talking about women in general which would include the US? who woulda thought. just one touch of sensitivity. UK-centric thinkers, man.
This happened to me with a youtuber names Exurb1a. He’s a philosophy youtuber who I looked up to for his thought provoking, inspiring videos. I bought 2 of his books and watched his videos whenever I was feeling down. I grew up watching him, and in a way I am who I am today because of him. A couple years back I heard he had sexually assaulted and emotionally abused his girlfriend for years. When proof of this came out and he was taken to court, he won the case and the girl was dismissed as crazy, being attacked by his youtube fans. His channel is still around today. Sometimes I wonder if his actions and beliefs behind the curtain rubbed on me through his public videos on philosophy. I don’t really have a point here, I just wanted to get it out there that we don’t always know who we think are our heroes.
I thought I went crazy FINALLY someone talks about this!!! I remember I saw him in a comment section and felt a deep sadness because people were saying how much they liked him..
@@IronKorei dont know about his specific case and the evidence against him, but if it went to jury theres a chance he was seen as sympathetic and given a pass or there was evidence but not enough to eliminate reasonable doubt. i am studying in the criminal justice field and some of the reasonings from decisions from the juries for DA and SA cases are absolutely insane.
I think the most chilling thing in that livestream wasn't really directly addressed by you. The bitterness about the holidays, and how it's no longer about YOU but the 'next generation'. Stated somewhere within the 6 hour period of time where he was murdering both his girlfriend, and what would have been his 'next generation' gestating within her, a week before Christmas. Is it weird I immediately find myself wondering if that was the motive? So gross and so tragic, I'm really surprised I'd not even heard about this.
@@anstupid4093 The answer is that it shouldn't. I didn't know the woman, so to me saying that she could've potentially cheated on him is purely a baseless accusation, made by someone trying to justify murder. Which frankly speaks very, very, loudly about the person who said it. It screams to me like someone who would be willing to kill a partner for being unfaithful themselves, and to defend their willingness to do so, they try to justify an actual honest to God real murder of a woman expecting a child, with the same braindead justification that they would use themselves as to why they would kill their unfaithful partner. Fucking hell, even if she did cheat, which again seems to be a wildly baseless accusation without any proof in reality to me, because guess what? Loads of people can run into, and in turn interact with an ex, without jumping their bones, and that's assuming she actually was even in contact with her ex which Bushmonster conveniently didn't provide any proof of. And well, even if she did in fact cheat on him, which I still heavily doubt she did, it still wouldn't justify murder. Nothing can justify killing someone in cold blood, not even if said person cheated on you.
thank you so much for covering this case! a lot of murder cases here in NI get overshadowed, and this is the first time i've seen a case local to me looked into in detail on youtube. thank you for making this, may natalie and dean rest in peace, they did not deserve any of this, at the hands of this monster.
This story is horrifying, and your perspective as a former fan is really interesting and sympathetic. You handled it with delicacy and respect, and I feel for you and his other fans. Unfortunately people can have good or entertaining qualities AND commit horrific acts, and they can hide in plain sight.
I've never heard of Steven, or his channel before (nor this one, actually), but I found this story genuinely heartbreaking. It seems in bad taste to give a compliment, considering the subject matter, but this video was very well done.
I had a favorite channel as a kid, that being Venturiantale. I was obsessed with the siblings, as they felt like the friends that I never really had in elementary school (sounds kinda sad I know). It hurt my heart as a now-college student to find out how the siblings were treated in their household, specifically Bethany and Cierra. To think that all the videos I watched were taking place while they were being isolated, emotionally abused, and had forced homophobic and misogynistic beliefs onto them is both hard to fathom, and just really painful. It really shows just how little we know about people who we thought we knew so well.
I also thought of VenturianTale when I saw this. They were my favorite channel when I was a kid in 2013/2014, and it was so sad to see the channel degrading over the years... then Bethany released her video. I hope she and Cierra are doing well now.
Really happy to hear Venturiantale mentioned. They were probably my favorite channel when I was younger, and it's kind of hard to describe how I felt "seen" by their content and such, but I did. It's one of the strange scenarios in which, despite Jordan and Isaacs views towards a group of people I admit I'm a part of, I can't even feel anger. Just melancholic acceptance, almost.
I was absolutely obsessed with venturiantale in middle school and when I checked on the channel like a year ago I was shocked to hear how the girls were treated. It’s weird looking back at the sibling antics throughout their channel and recontextualizing them with the knowledge that all of them were discouraged to have friendships outside their home, so they only really had each other and a few other people.
they were the only channel i watched on youtube for like two years when i first started using youtube. i didn’t even know about this situation, glad i saw this comment.
I was just thinking about this myself; I loved VenturianTale as a young teen and used to watch their stuff regularly, quoting some of their running jokes even years later. I had already distanced myself from them emotionally somewhat, after seeing one of the girls say that she didn't support/believe in LGBT (though from what I know now I don't think that was actually true, but she was too afraid to say otherwise) but as an oldest sibling of four who loved making OCs and roleplaying silly stuff like that, they still had a special place in my heart, especially Venturian himself. I stopped watching their stuff before things came to light, but I saw them mentioned in another video about FNAF UA-camrs that kinda lost popularity and faded out, and upon seeing the comments talking about the details the video missed, I went searching for Bethany's explanation from two years ago. It hurt my heart to see her so heartbroken and still unpacking all the things she had grown up under and everything she had lost when she finally left it behind. As it turned out, I found it right around the time Bethany started uploading again, and seeing the light in her eyes that I don't think I had ever seen there before was a relief to see. It sounds like she's doing well now, married to someone who loves and supports her, and still taking the steps she needs to take care of herself. I wish Bethany and Cierra all the best (and from how Bethany still talks highly about their mom, I hope she can find the support she needs as well).
when I didn't know anything outside of "domestic violence and murder" I assumed it must've been a guy going too far during a fight and then hurriedly covering it up, but with how meticulously planned it was I rly wanna know _why_ he did it. what's the motive? what could she possibly have done, or what did he somehow believe she had done, to make him so firmly believe her to be deserving of such a carefully planned death?
I mean, she was expecting their first child. The most common cause of death of pregnant women is spousal murder. The motive usually being that the spouse doesn't actually want to have a child. It's unfortunately common.
Same. He seemed like such a harmless, lighthearted, goofy guy. I know real life murderers can just look like regular people, but it's hard to imagine that he had such darkness in him
It is horrifyingly common for men to kill their wives/girlfriends in a premeditated way. Usually the only 'reason' is they got a new gf behind her back and dont want to deal with a divorce, or they don't want to have kids (like the other commenter said), and they thought they could get away with it. This reminds me of the murders of Susan Cox Powell, Laci Peterson, and the Watts family. The "livestream" and the performative hinting elements is such a unique and odd aspect of it though. Most of these guys want to get away with it. Although a lot of them also seem to think they're way smarter than police & end up making sloppy mistakes that allow them to be caught I hadn't heard much about this case before this video but I'll be looking out for when the trial wraps up and we have access to more information
@@cybrmaTSOne one hand it seems a weak justification. But thinking about it, I guess that having to raise and/or maintain a child of a woman you have no interest in being with anymore (with no fault of your own) is a big burden, a lifelong commitment. There should be structures to help men in these situations. I'm not justifying the horrible act, but I can understand how some people might see themselves cornered.
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I have good news for you.
YOOOO you're alive!
the return of the king
thank god you're still alive
Wait, Did he get locked up ?
@@philipharwood5201 ?
The fact Natalie messaged him saying she'd check it out, and he was on his way to kill her. Seriously sick.
Imagine, for a moment, that you are Natalie. You just heard that your boyfriend is livestreaming for the first time, and curious, you decide to check it out. You watch it for a bit, but then decide that enough is enough and go on to do something else. Not much time later, you hear someone enter through your front door. You tense up, wondering who it could be and why they went to your house specifically. Soon enough you see that it's, your boyfriend? Had he stopped livestreaming? Before you can answer anything, he's already hit you across the face, slamming you against the floor. The last thing you see is whom you thought to be your one true love, knife in hand, throwing downward.
@@tux1468 jesus dude
@@ApexGaleit's a brutal and disgusting murder what do you expect😭
@@kokomi270 not a vivid imagining of how the events unfolded
@@tux1468Why the fuck did you imagine it in such detail and felt the need to share it on the Internet? Keep it to yourself dude.
the fact that he put in tongue in cheek references to the murder is so insane. he was so confident that he’d get away with this that he felt like playing the riddler in his alibi
The Middler
@@eldritchexploited5462The Shityler
Zodiac style
@@AxiEisa
The difference is that the Zodiac was intelligent, or at least extremely lucky.
This, however, was complete idiocy.
seems to happen alot with freakos like that. a very psychotic ego boost
The fact that he was able to hint at and even make jokes about what he was planning to do is honestly haunting. Like, he even sang a little song about it
I literally got chills when he started singing the little song.
He has an identity/fantasy issue thing going on I think. For some reason he said all those threats etc. in a shtty old london accent then went back to his normal accent. Really weird. Wouldnt be at all suprised to find out he constantly tells bizarre lies.
The whole intentional Easter eggs thing is why people say killers are stupid
@@dismurrart6648 To be fair, if you do leave easter eggs for no reason before you murder someone, you're not a very smart person
@@dismurrart6648To be fair, there's a bit of survivorship bias there. We only know the identities of serial killers that get caught, and the ones that give hints are more likely to get caught.
God, the "abso-fuckin-natlie" with a slight chuckle before downing the last of his drink is fucking chilling.
Not* (it was not. Not nat)
@@DJDrankensteinThe first time was not. The 2nd time was Nat.
I think its abso-fucking-nutley, sounds to me that he chuckled due to the nut joke or something.
@@mofik26the second time he says "abso-fucking-natalie."
@@thejuvenoia I mean yeah, but it sounded like nutley the first time I heard it. Given the story it seems that's what he said, I just wrote what I heard initially.
"The Riddler is so unrealistic. What kind of criminal would leave cryptic clues that can be used against him?"
Only the dumb ones. That's why it's unrealistic, because the riddler is smart
@@loveableheathen7441we've gotta redefine dumb because some of them have really high IQs. At least two have even been MENSA members, one of those leaving the empty bottle of poison in his garage that he ended up renting out to an undercover detective.
@@ContactsNfilters the best way to judge someone's intelligence is based on their actions not their education level
@@loveableheathen7441You're absolutely correct. Though IQ tests have nothing to do with education (and in theory have to do with problem solving).
I think the main reason "taunter" killers are caught more has nothing to do with their seemingly lower intelligence, and is mainly because of the ingrained technology in our society today There was a certain level of anonymity that was expected to be respected in even the recent past. Certain peoples were given the benefit of the doubt, far too much. Thanks to technology, that's mostly gone now. Honest people no longer have privacy, but neither do those whom abused it.
@@thehalfmoonmirrorsvenus1234IQ does in fact have links to education. Hence why it can fluctuate throughout a persons life, and why poor areas with weaker educational systems have lower IQ. It’s also why it was implemented in the US.
imagine being so confident you'll get away with murder you put "easter eggs" within your own alibi
man fumbled so hard
Its just a modern day equivalent of serial killers like Jack the Ripper or the Zodiac being really coy in their letters to police or ciphers. He wanted people to endlessly speculate if it was him but be unable to prove it.
@@PR0MAN01 hard comparison of famous serial killers to loser that got away with it for 2 or 3 days. but i get what you mean. dude thought he was playing 5d chess but only really playing tic tac toe
@@ziroskillsgaming7786HAHAHHAHA I burst out laughing because some of the oldest caves from pre humans had what looks like tic tac toe carved in stone and they found pigments where the X and O would go and wonder if that was the earliest version of the game of a #hashtag lol My guess is that it was the game and that would make it even more primitive which made your comment sooo much funnier to me.
These people constantly surprise me the more I learn about them. I will constantly be shocked by how fucking bizarre these people can be and I just really enjoy the single life of not dating anymore. Rescued animals are where it is at 💖
I have a friend who is currently in jail for murder. I found out when I started searching for any updates to her life after she dropped off the planet a few years ago. I've grappled with the same feelings over her.
Hope you’re doing well, that’s a really shitty thing to go through.
My heart goes out to you and to her victim. It's a brutal emotional journey.
I could imagine that to be an extremely weird thing to go through
Damn, that really sucks. I'm sorry. I can somewhat relate because I have a cousin from my dad's side of the family. He was recently jailed after getting into a fight with his mother, which culminated in him attempting to strangle her. Now, he's had a bad childhood at the hands of his father and has been doing drugs, but it really does not excuse what he did. The best thing he can do (and I hope he does) is get help. I'd really like to see the good in him.
It really does affect everyone, not just the families but even people who knew the perpetrator, everyone around the two is affected
I cannot imagine the horror of watching your supposed lovers livestream just to be interupted by the same person youre watching "live" in your house with murderous intent.
i havent watched the video yet, was scrolling thru the comments to try and confirm on my own if this was the same person i had somewhat heard about before (it is), and i swear it all feels so much worse with the additional knowledge that she was watching the livestream when it happened
It's straight out of Code Geass. You're talking to a prerecorded video thinking it's live while the real person shows up behind you.
Wait, did he put in the James Bond poster specifically for her to see? Vile.
@@pairodox1255wow i didnt even think about that
Shit yeah it was wild when this came out. I didn't know she was watching while it happened. That's so sad
Yesterday would have been Natalie’s 33rd birthday. I truly hope this man never knows peace until his last day
I truly hope that he never feels peace at all, she was so young!
Her baby boy Dean would've been born around June, about five months old now. Natalie should be here, 33, with her beautiful five month old baby boy.
Well I've got news for you . . .
Wait you can't actually look for people's addresses anymore
@@AxiEisabruh his address is a prison cell
Man ...what a kick in the gut.
The fact that Natalie "liked" the stream announcement and told him she would watch it, it's like she didn't even see any hint of the malevolence coming from him. It's horrifying to think how out-of-nowhere his attack on her must have felt in those moments. That poor woman.
Someone else here speculated he might have put those hints in to give her a sense of unease, without being able to put a finger on it.
And people still use phrases against women like "she should've picked better".
You literally never know. She was so unsuspecting 😕
Is so morbid... My mind jumped immediately to the unborn child being the "reason" for this gruesome shit. I'm also unwanted by my father but I'm glad he stepped away instead of slowly getting out of hand with the relationship with my mom...
Imagine the horror of watching your "friends" stream and suddenly they themselves walk in and try and kill you. Fucking nightmare shit.
You think the strange taunts were meant for her? Sounds like he planed out the No Time to Die poster to appear like something right out of a horror movie.
He should of been so incredibly excited and happy for his family starting. I lost a gf who was pregnant. And it ruined me for YEARS. I just cannot wrap my head around this without crying.
I am so sorry for your loss.
I think that the baby probably wasn't his and that's why he did it. He'll have to testify in court first though.
@@dannydanny2789Its probably not the case and even if was it doesnt excuse what he did
@@raghmane of course it doesn't, but that's a likely motive. Doctor who loser nerds don't exactly go around murdering their girlfriends for pure bloodlust
@@dannydanny2789 still , its lowkey trying to put some blame on the girl which is weird asf considering we have 0 evidence of that possibility
Around 2 years ago i was informed that one of my high school friends had murdered his grandparents, covering it up with a fire so that he and his girlfriend could attempt to inherit their house. We were close in our teens, but had fallen out of touch after graduation. This was more or less my first update on his whereabouts since school.
It's an unsettling sort of feeling, ranging from muted horror to occasionally resembling some sick parody of the feeling of knowing a celebrity, something you bring up at parties and then immediately regret when people react with the revulsion the topic deserves, but sometimes i don't know how to deal with it other than to talk about it.
It infiltrates your memories, your home, your birthdays shared together. This is the floor where i laughed with a murderer; this is the hall where he told me about his crushes. There's a part of me that always hopes somehow it was some big mistake, that the eccentric, lonely boy i knew wouldn't have done this, but he probably did.
I tried to write a letter to him in jail, but couldn't get past the first line. What is there to say?
I am very sorry. It has never really occured to me that the people who were friends of murderers will also be impacted, just like the people who were friends of victims. I had made the mistake of having my opinion of innocent decent people like you, with who your past friend once was. And I cannot fathom a solution to stop the feelings you had felt, other than the cold passing of time. One's identity is built on their own personality but also other people or other groups of people they choose to associate with, and I wouldn't wish imposing this emotional turmoil and identity collapse to my worst enemy if I had one. I assume you felt better after 2 years because feeling bad like this continiously would be debilitating and sui. A common saying says "the Art, not the Artist". In this case it may be "(the memories you made), not (the person you made the memory with's future self", but I feel that there might never be the ability for me to feel nostalgic or happy about those memories I made. Not to judge you or anyone who Does feel nostalgic or happy about those memories, but the "Art, not the Artist" pill is too difficult for me to swallow. I hope you choose to stick around and enjoy the fresh air for as many mornings as possible, fellow stranger.
Similar. Found out after middle school that both my orchestra teacher and a friend who had dropped out were both murdered the same year. Both by abusive spouses. Finding out that folks have just disappeared due to insanity like that is a hell of a jolt.
I am so sorry
@@sliderblackrose4287 That's truly awful, I am so sorry.
@@ScaryBoomBoomGun I'm alright, certainly the family of the deceased are the ones who need the most support. Since i didn't even know the victims it's often a more surreal experience than it is a sad one? I'm lucky to have my own life and live nowhere near him.
How he could call her "this bitch" and premeditate her murder after dating her for only 4 months is extra scary. RIP Natalie & baby Dean. I am so sorry for her family & friends.
She was pregnant and that probably motivated him more.... Which is sick but most likely true.
Murder of pregnant women by their spouses/boyfriends is actually incredibly common. It's sick, yes, but homicide is the leading cause of death for pregnant women and women who recently gave birth.
@@chU62783ylol shut up 😂
Yes we do.
@@chU62783y
"That's what men really think of us".
I'd like to address this for a moment.
As a man who has spent twenty-six years without murdering a single person and actively working so as to never, ever do such a thing, I urge, _implore_ you to reconsider your generalizing statement.
It is deeply hurtful to both my efforts, and the efforts of the many men who've never done anything wrong to women.
Now, I don't presume to tell you that you shouldn't be afraid, or bitter, or vindictive. A lot of us are fucking annoying, and women tend to suffer the consequences for essentially no reason. You shouldn't be on the receiving end of violence just because you're in the room. But that doesn't give you the right to go around and carelessly imply that men's true thoughts is they have contempt for women. You just watched a video made by a man who showed nothing but respect for Natalie. True, we don't know him fully; but we do know that he wrote the script, shot the entire thing, kept it both detailed and informative, then chose to put it online, thus raising awareness of this entire issue. I'd argue that's pretty good. And if you have any statistics of the many men who such positive things, do share those as well.
Thank you to anyone who bothered reading all this. Including you, chU62783y - assuming you did.
I hope you all have a fantastic day, after passing through this rather somber hour.
The "easter eggs" in the alibi stream remind me of what they say about certain profiles of serial killer, taunting investigators to prove they're smarter than everyone else.
I think he did it for Natalie as like a little foreboding as to what will happen espiecally if he knew she was watching the “livestream”. I don’t think he wanted to get away with it he just wanted her to feel as anxious as he did about their upcoming parenthood.
@@solluxcaptor6823 agree - she had commented on one of his posts to say she would be watching it. He basically scripted her murder, including his smug sign-off that he knew she would never hear about how that Christmas would be the best ever.
I reckon it's just delusions of grandeur. The clues are for him to look back on fondly, thinking himself a mastermind.
I just want to cry for this poor woman, the child she must have been so excited to have, for her family who had to receive the most devastating news in a season when loved ones are supposed to be treasuring and celebrating their time together. This man was a monster and I have nothing but loathing for him. I hope he gets everything he deserves.
The fact that it’s incredibly likely she was watching the stream as she was being murdered is extremely disturbing
That's fucking terrifying to imagine... That she would be wathcing her beloved boyfriend's cute christmas livestream and then have him appear in her home, and just...Fuck.
Could be worse, what if the assault began at exactly the moment the james bond poster appeared.
@@Shadethe13thit did happen when the James Bond poster appeared. 😢
@@ODDinaryPerson No, the timeline says people heard a woman screaming around 9pm, the James Bond poster appeared 9:26 PM, he exited the house around 9:30, so most probably he was changing clothes and washing himself at the time the poster appeared.
@@CoracaoAcidental98 just thinking about it makes me sick nauseous
The fact that she watched his shitty "livestream" to support him, the very same livestream in which he glibly hints towards his plans, the very same night she was murdered by someone she trusted just broke me
Oh christ, I was just struck by the horrifying thought that, maybe that's why he filled it with all of those hints and references? All as a way of subtly putting her on edge, making her think "What does he mean? What's going on?" but not in a way she can really put her finger on. All to give her that creeping sense of unease as a part of his sadistic glee, so that his arrival would be even more terrifying. He was right. He is a sadistic bastard
Why he do it? Why?!
@@flipingboredcriticBecause he's another fucked up man who wanted to kill someone and far too often killers will pick people who trust them.
@@eveoftheroses3766 and he pre-recorded this don't forget, he played this video as a "live stream" so he could go out and do it. Very easy to prove pre-meditation, even without the comments he made in the stream. Jesus. I think it was meant to be a murder suicide but he lost his bottle when it came to the last part.
True psychopath shit.
"Plotline so thin, it would put public school toilet paper to shame"
What an absolute legendary line to drop so casually
Fr, shit went hard 🤣
i see what you did there 💀@@loveableheathen7441
Saw this comment as he said it
I mean this in the nicest possible way, but, you may need to get out more😅
I feel so bad for Natalie, I’m sure she knew it was him killing her in the moment and probably couldn’t comprehend why, especially being pregnant and expecting child together. She was probably so confused in those last few seconds of terror. What a lunatic. Thankfully his own parents weren’t alive to see that side of him.
The ''No *Time to Die* '' poster appearing when he does the murder is haunting
it is so insanely fucked up
now I can't look at it the same way :/
you dont understand that word dont you?
@@finno-american what
@@finno-american what
i took a took at her twitter. saw she posted a picture of her christmas tree… 2 days before her murder. it was horrifying to see. just.. uneasy. saddening. rest in peace nat.
He even liked that photo too
@@LordTommy21 even crazier/sadder he tweeted a couple hours before the murder about said livestream. And she liked the tweet
Why did he kill her when they were on talking terms and she still supported his childish hobbies? Not all relationships are Disney romances. Getting pregnant with his baby is a gift! He didnt have much else going on in his life. That he'd soon be a dad, regardless of how romantic his relationship with her was, he had good things coming. Was this murder just so he didnt have to PAY money for his baby? Wanted more cash for toys. What a loser. Narcissist.
I took a took
@@ozmondlove how the human brain auto-fixes these random spelling errors.
Like that poster that every word is misspelled, only the first and last letter is correct. Yet you can still read it perfectly… the human brain is so interesting!
My poker group played with a guy for years until his son came forward with S__ abuse allegations. Now, he is serving 24 yrs in prison. A shock to us all.
I‘m sorry that must have been low-key traumatizing. It’s so scary that we can’t know anybody fully. Not the people in our real life let alone the content creators we watch online.
Nah. I’d argue you can usually tell 9/10 times if you aren’t an idiot.
@fuckoffgoogle1657 Well, the guy was with his new wife, and his son was 250 miles away. So, who would even consider the subject?
Yeah an older colleague of mine was arrested and convicted for molesting and SAing his own granddaughter! What made it worse was the fact he had also done the same thing to his own daughter back in the 80’s but it happened too long ago to prosecute. I was just as mad at his daughter bc she willingly left her own child with a man who had abused herself as a child. Who would do that?!
@@Garbeaux. she did a fucked up thing, but abuse twists the mind. To her I bet her father's assault became so normal she couldn't see why he shouldn't be around his granddaughter. She's still a complicit piece of shit, but she's also a victim.
I relate to this topic way too much. Mr. Anime was my favorite UA-camr in high school. Like, I watched him religiously. And then he murdered his family.
Ooooof, that's rough. I get where you're coming from, albeit with music moreso; I was a Lostprophets fan in high school... o_____o
@@kaitlin9288 shiiiit yeah that's rough 😬
@@nickf.747uh oh, what happened? The first album I bought was by lostprophets, probably sometime between 2002-04. I moved on to other bands about a year later, but sometimes wondered what happened to them.
About a year ago now, I found out that a friend of mine, one that I had grown close with, was a groomer and pedophile. You always *think* you can let go of those people who’ve committed atrocities until you’re actually face to face with it. Because when you’re face to face with it, you realize all the good things that are now tarnished and wish for the truth to be literally anything else.
Thank you for the message about putting that positivity back out there. It’s a message people need to know.
when I was 14, my best friend got "accused" of rape. I believed him that it wasn't true, as the girl who came out about him HAD stalked him for over a year. However, I came to realize he had absolutely done it. It was horrific. I felt so ashamed, and so horrified for her that people hadn't believed her. He took advantage of her mental health troubles to hurt someone less people would believe, and took advantage of our trust towards him. Please don't blame yourself, it's hard to see coming. It's so horrifying to see someone you were so close to is a bad person, you never really get closure. Its hard to look back at fond memories and have them all tainted, it's hard to face the dissonance. I am wishing the best for you!!!
happened for one of my friend groups
the _”chill gamer friend”_ was outed for attempting to assault his ex’s niece.
its sickening to know that while he was being raided and investigated we were all talking and playing with him. None of us noticed at the time.
@@dorkchopshow did u find out he was getting raided
@@Fawkseyness Whoa... What a breach of trust. I wouldn't be able to move on from that, but that's me, and if you're a bigger person than me, then - good for you! I mean it. They probably did it in an *insanely* misguided attempt at "protecting" you, but holy shit, that could have ended horrifically for you! That they didn't tell you about it - that feeling of not *knowing* something so big, would be the worst part for me personally. I don't know what was worst for you. I have trust issues, so I just feel like I really, really *need* to know things. And how the hell could people talk shit about your poor cousin whose life was forever changed and ruined in many ways, and *not* the grandfather who ruined and changed it!? What the hell is wrong with them?! Sorry for saying that about your family but honestly, I wonder. Who lays the blame on the *child* and not the adult?! Anyway, hope you are doing well now. I'm truly sorry if I said something that "crossed the line", so to speak. If I did; I apologize! Hope you'll have a nice week :)
@@karak962I had a similar situation where I had a crush on this guy. I’m autistic and was less socially aware at the time. He would usually ignore me but one day he decided to get me to secretly meet him in the bathrooms and get me to dodo things in there. It was all very emotionless and hush hush. Just a short text message to go there and wait. He was finally giving me attention so I did whatever he asked and he started giving me small personal tokens of his afterwards like a reward. I later found out he had done things with a few girls and they were all unaware of eachother and all thought they had this special
Secret with him, but he tried to accuse me of assaulting him once when he literally texted me demanding I get to the bathroom on time
The fact that Stephen actually went to a rally supporting women and calling for an end to violence on them is absolutely sickening. It's actually sending chills up my spine seeing his face there.
Its always the male feminists
It's been my experience as a woman, that men who make a huge deal about supporting women are usually the men hurting women.
They make such a big deal because it acts like a shield.
I mean, after all, the man calling himself a feminist and marching alongside women for their rights, couldn't possibly be beating his wife at home or sexually harassing his female co-workers, right?
It's one thing if you ask a guy "You support feminism?" and he's like "Yeah sure", It's another if a guy keeps inserting himself into feminist related things and convos (often speaking over women whom he deems not feminist enough) and bringing up the fact he's a feminist unprompted that tends to be the red flag.
You didn't know most male feminist types are snakes in the grass? Lol. Most men don't want women being harmed period but guys that try hard to convince women they care have other motives
@timewarpdrive77 So what should people who identify as male do?, Remain patriarchal and sexist?, Die out to leave an all female world?. What do you want?
that is so narcissistic! reminds me of the JCS episode with the Incel who killed his neighbor and then did TV interviews saying how much he missed her and so on.
I’m so glad his parents weren’t around to see what he did. Rest in peace Natalie and Dean.
So he didn't kill those too? Bc that was my first thought 😅
@EterPuralis it's a BIG question we all have in the back of our minds...
@@EterPuralis practice makes perfect
@@professorhazard Clearly not
@@EterPuralis They honestly didn't seem all that old.
I see it's been 6 months since this video, and I was curious on if there was any update about the trial, so I did a quick Google.
If anyone wants an update; in January Stephen pleaded not guilty for the murder, and the trial is going to begin this September, which will last 3-4 weeks.
Thank you
It’s crazy that he would plead not guilty honestly… this seems like an absolute slam dunk. We know he prerecorded the livestream and basically planned this. He’s the only suspect. Admittedly without DNA evidence on the body it would be hard to prove 100% he did the murder, but it couldn’t be anyone else, and the fact the faked a livestream and immediately used it as an alibi is so suspicious.
@@justanotheryoutubechannel
Everything about the livestream was fucked. Then, it coincidentally lining up with how long he’d be gone for, the paths the killer took, the lengths the killer took to commit the murder and remain unseen, and the “who the hell else could it be?” factor, as he was the only one that close to her
It's now set for May 6, 2025 if you're looking for updates
@@emdueck6250 How many times has his trial been delayed?
as someone who had a friend who attempted murder, I doubt his wife even saw this coming. With every relationship, you run the risk of that person becoming someone you no longer recognize. But its not as black and white as you seem to think it is. Its not 'blind idolization' or 'question everything someone does' you simply take what a person has given you, shown you, and you make a judgement based on who you see. That's all you can do. You can have a balance of idolization and healthy critique, its not one or the other.
You’re completely correct, but she wasn’t even his wife - she was his girlfriend of only four months.
I often fear due to my innate short temperness which is uncurable nor treatable. Sense its a part of me, I often fight the urge in lashing out on people to "solve" issues. Some stuff in my life got effected by other people that made it worse cutting them out of my life (It started fine but this person wanted me to be with them 24/7 a day being a introvert I cannot do that all the time) reduced it and allow my Temper to go back down. Negativity only makes my condition worse. I am more effected by positive and negative emotions more greatly than anyone on the planet. Postives keeps my mood in check, negatives makes me more aggressive to being almost uncontrollable. It's not anger issues or poor management Its just part of who I am, But I found ways to keep it under wraps with music and if people leaves me alone to cool off.
My Greatest fear is someone pushes my anger so far I lose myself. The only time I went crazy was only like 5 seconds because no one cared about my feelings and I laughed hysterically because I tried to express and show that I need people to listen on how I feel to talk about it, I snapped back to normal after that. My emotions go back to normal but when you are faced with so much stress in RL it gets to you.
Deep down I am a Good Hearted person, I take a bullet for anyone even if it means I am gone to save another persons life. That is what keeps my anger in check is to remind myself that I was born to do good deeds not bad ones despite my bad temper. I got a very good heart but with a very bad downside a short temper.
Most of my friends knows this and they understand I may burst at them if we clashed. They are amazing friends who knows I need to vent to cool myself down. In terms of actually relationships, as a Guy with my BF for many years we tend to fight once and awhile, I get very fired up around him and sometimes I do get angry at him badly at times, But it's mostly because of my innate smartness (Its a curse really being too smart) that it irritates me when people cannot understand simple concepts mainly in games. BUT despite all this I still love him greatly and that love is stronger than my hate/anger.
I don't wish for my anger/short temperness to turn me into something I am not. Hence in 2023, I try to force myself to solve issues as calmly as I can without bursting a fit of rage.
@@RairosuHey, we're internet strangers but I really hope you give what I'm about to say a thought.
I am like you. I was like you. I am a *very* angry person compared to the average. More intelligent than average (although fat lot of good it does us, right?) High emotional lability. Convinced that because my family is this way that it was just my nature. That having a high degree of "self-control" was the only way to get along in a world of normal/less emotionally sensitive people.
My dad was bipolar and I've always been very upfront in mental health evaluations to keep an eye on symptoms fitting with that diagnosis. Psychiatrists and psychologists were *sure* that I was just depressed and anxious and have ADHD and possibly other things but I am *definitely not* bipolar because I didn't fit a certain set of criteria on a checklist. But adding mood stabilizers (given to people with bipolar disorder) to my antidepressants was a great first step in helping see that I *can* take just a second to step back from an initial angry response and stop my emotions from escalating. It gave me hope that if I put in the work I can be a better person and it is not just my immutable nature. The right medications together helped me progress with my behavioral therapy in a way that I was unable to do with my less-than-optimal brain chemistry alone.
I, like you, was on my own with my symptoms of extreme anger and a lack of support from qualified professionals and unqualified people in my personal life. The only way to manage without assaulting people was to withdraw and distract myself. I had to rein in my own life and pursuits to fit my anger's shape. It wasn’t until I lived with my best friend (a man who I've seen yell only two times in our entire decade plus friendship) did I start to take it seriously. HE became a more angry, withdrawn, and stressed person when I was stressed. Our dogs were more stressed and edgy. I'd come home on my lunch break and break 2x4s in the backyard and take a cold shower before going back to work. It was unsustainable and sounds unhinged to the average person but even still now seems ok to me. But seeing my best friend's and my 1000% innocent dogs' quality of life visibly degrade just with increased interaction with me fucking broke me good. I never hurt anyone or tried to hurt anyone and I would have chosen to hurt myself over anyone else (and had if you count injuring myself during meltdowns.)
But you don't have to hurt yourself OR hurt others (mentally or physically.) Please seek medical/mental help and support. Your life is not a zero-sum game where you and others have to walk on eggshells around each other and no one is getting the full range of life that they deserve.
I'm 30 and it took me 28 fucking years to even start to progress on this issue. I'm a smidge better than when I started and I'm working on getting better than that.
You may not be like me. But consider that you might be. Consider that you *can* be a better, happier version of you. Seek help to do so. If I'm wrong you have permission to be mad at me in the future.
@@Rairosu What have you done to try and treat this innate short temperness? Because this glimpse of you from your comment makes you sound very young, very arrogant, and very quick to dismiss what others, with more knowledge and experience, could say.
"I am more effected by positive and negative emotions more greatly than anyone on the planet." Frankly, this is a gross exaggeration and simply not true.
"But it's mostly because of my innate smartness (Its a curse really being too smart)" This also convinces me you are either very young, very arrogant, or both. Truly intelligent people with the maturity that comes from life experience that humbles them don't go around spouting lines like this. It also very much gives off vibes of, "Well, seeking mental help wouldn't have any point because I'm smarter than the therapists."
Whatever the reality is, I truly hope you seek help for this issue, because if you can lose control as easily as you're indicating, that won't go well for you or someone else if, god forbid, you do fully snap and aren't controlling your actions.
@@davidb.6681if people spoke out more and were believed when they did so, a lot of horrible things that have happened may not have occurred
I've known victims of abuse and it's always the same story for the victim, very rarely does anything happen with the abuser
As alleged as it is. The fact that he filmed Natalie's parents ....is just sick. Repulsive.
K CD I Red Cross is r😮Rey rt
As I recall it was an audio recording, not video.
@@PKSeven still counts as filming
Jesus forgives him and says you're not allowed to judge. So cut it out.
@@dangerousdays2052Forgiveness is not a virtue
I think in these situations it's good to remember that you're not at fault for enjoying somebody's content. There's no way anybody in the audience could've known, and if they had known, they wouldn't be in that audience anymore.
It isn't his fault either. I don't care if he lies in court. It is self-defense against mercilessness.
To think it is incomprehensible is like Ben Shapiro being surprised that poor people are more likely to commit crimes.
Ben Shapiro: "um shouldn't the threat of poverty prevent anyone from committing a crime? WHAT?"
I'm not political, you are. The people who are on natalis's side are and on the wrong side.
@@menjolno What the fuck are you even talking about? Regardless of what drove him to such a crime, what did his girlfriend and unborn child have to do with it? What point are you even trying to make here? He's a monster for doing what he did and there's no reason to try inserting politics into it.
@@diot05 that is a anecdotole logic fallacy
@@menjolno Somehow, I feel like murder is bad.
@@Spacccee no need to worry. less than 1 percent of deaths are from murder
when less than 1 percent of deaths are from gun: "how about the murderous cars?"
when less than 1 percent of deaths are from murder: " Somehow, I feel like ..."
This reminds me when Nobuhiro Watsuki was found to be a pedo. I was obsessed with Rurouni Kenshin as a depressed teen and the work genuinely affected my views. My first forum online was an RK forum and it's the reason I started socializing with other anime nerds, which is where I met most of my friends. I learned to sew clothing to make Rurouni Kenshin cosplays. It was so part of my personality that when it came out, many of my friends expressed their condolences to me.
The thing is, my other main hyperfixation is Doctor Who...
Hope you are doing good
years ago I was in a clinic for my eating disorder. I had a friend there, he was just a year older, being 17, and we got along really well. We talked about everything and anything, and I considered him a friend that I trusted.
One evening we were sitting on the balcony when he opened up about having issues with the police and that he couldn't allow himself a slip up or else he might face jail. They were "light" on him because he was still a minor, but then he told me the reason why. It was because he owned CP.
And since then I couldn't see him the same way. I didn't like talking to him anymore, I didn't want to share any personal stuff.
Not long after he started a "secret relationship" with my 14 year old roommate.
Yeah. Haven't conacted him since leaving the clinic.
Did you report him? Because if he was raping a child and you knew about it, I really hope that you reported him.
@@eshbena in my country the age of consent is 14 and at that point he was still a minor himself, but we informed the staff. I left shortly after, looks like nothing came of it though. I hope therapy got through to him and that he does not continue that terrible behavior, now it is truly illegal that he is an adult
@@kiwimiwi5452 It won't, and he will continue. I hope you've kept an eye on your roommate.
@@featherelfstrom8405 they didn't last (luckily!!) and I believe are zero contact now.
Not so fun update though is that about a day ago I saw him post that he had (probably?) obtained a license to carry weapons, and apparently also a gun.
Back then I joked that I wouldn't be surprised to see him on a wanted post on TV, but I didn't know how close I might be with that. It just completely messes one up when one realizes they have crossed paths with a criminal and once trusted them.
@@featherelfstrom8405Kept an eye on him how??
The whole incident sounds like something from a dark comedy film; a guy using a faked livestream to kill his loved one, and he loads the prerecorded footage with obvious hints about what he’s actually doing.
It’s like the Key and Peele rapper sketch but in real life
It feels like the plot of an episode of Pysch
I won’t doubt seeing some form of this being alluded to in a future law and order or csi episode.
Reminds me of the batman comic where the riddler tried to pull off a crime without leaving any clues and found that he literally couldn't do so
Could definitely be an episode of Inside Number 9
Something like this has definitely been done in many detective shows, with different technology of course.
Columbo in particular was always fascinated by the new technologies of its time, if it were still around they would have surely done something like this (it went on from the 1960s to the 1990s).
I was hit by an ad for Domino's Pizza midsentence during this video and it is by far the most dystopian thing I have ever experienced.
coulda been worse, coulda been for a james bond movie
ublock origins
I was once watching a documentary about global hunger that was abruptly interrupted by a KFC ad that featured a chicken bucket that the camera kept rapidly zooming in and out on while an enthusiastic voice announced "Bottomless Chicken Bucket!". Then the ad stopped and the documentary resumed showing skeletal children with bloated stomachs.
Psycopathic murder brought to you by domino's pizza
@@eliannafreely5725 That's disturbing. It's like the ad was taunting them
The most terrifying thing about simply existing is that you will never fully know anyone, ever.
Not even yourself.
From the name of the stream itself, to the fake laughter, to the puns, to the topics talked about..... It's almost like he WANTED to get caught. Like he just didn't care anymore.
Truly unhinged.
Edit: Well then... Guess I plagiarized the video before watching it fully. Whoops.
I can't tell whether he wanted to be caught, or he was just that cynical/arrogant. His murder plan was sloppy anyway, but surely he'd realize how unconvincing that live stream was after even the smallest bit of scrutiny. Did he just think he was smarter than he actually was?
@@flarestorm9417
I honestly think he was just being drunk and arrogant.
Kind of like how some criminals want to be cool for being a criminal, and do subtle brags thinking no one's really listening.
I think he just thought he was smarter than everyone else, and thought that this stream was such an ace in the hole, it didn't matter if he made a few sly remarks or not.
@@flarestorm9417many criminals suffer from the Dunning Kruger syndrome, if you watch true crime cases you'll know it's not unusual (but maybe it's a skewed perception, since the dumb ones are the ones that get caught).
@@flarestorm9417I think he felt guilty and wanted to be caught.
@@trapadvisor If you feel guilty enough to want to be caught before you even do the crime, then you probably wouldn't have done the crime in the first place
living in northern ireland, this case is quite famous here i had no idea he was a youtuber. its really horrible, but im glad more people are talking about it. it really shook the community here. rip natalie
so did you know why he killed her? it didn't say in the video.
@@juarezamorim no, sorry. that sort have thing hasn't been released by the police here
it sounds crazy up there in the north
@@AbsoluteAbsurdit's not, this was a very shocking case
@@juarezamorimfriendzoned or something along those lines, tragic
Being an emo on early UA-cam means I’ve felt being betrayed by UA-camrs too many times. Onision, Social Repose, Shane Dawson, Jeffree Star… just a handful.
i've felt the same in the 7 or so years i've been into alternative music, allegation after allegation coming out against the people whos music got me though the worst times of my life is so disheartening because i doubt most if any are false
Yeah. It suck’s.
@@mushroom_dance5219There are some professions that predators are drawn to. Musicians can appeal to anyone with internet and they travel a lot, making crime tracking more difficult. I know your pain, man. These bastards manipulated us all.
This is what happens when you watch bad UA-cam videos
I am glad I am not you and I can just laugh at those idiots that I used to like for being idiots
As a former Nerimon/Alex Day, Luke Conard, Alex Carpenter, Jason Munday, and Mike Lombardo fangirl in early UA-cam nerdfighter circles, I had to learn so early that people really can disappoint you in parasocial relationships. Then I learned it again with Mandopony, which was even weirder because he followed me on Tumblr and Twitter for about two years starting in 2013 until I pretty much went inactive in those fanbases.
It's why you really can't put anyone on a pedestal. At all. Because anyone could be hiding their true colors when it comes down to it.
Seconded on the Nerimon things. I threw away a bunch of CDs.
Goodness, I'm only glad his parents have passed already so that they never had to witness what a monster their son had become.
Truly tragic. 😔
Rest in Peace Natalie. You didn't deserve the fate you received, and I pray you get justice. 🙏
I have to wonder if he killed them, considering how close together they died
@@ravenID429 that may be a terrifying possibility.
@@ravenID429oh god dont jinx it
@ravenID429 I wondered that too. He asked for money and sympathy after. If he got away with it, he would've done the same. In fact, he kinda started it by showing up to the rally.
@@somerobloxdude3699they’ve already passed, “jinxing it” wouldn’t matter at all.
I spent a couple of nights at the man's house a few years ago to assist with the recording of the Antweight Anarchy International Inferno as well as his review of the Doctor Who episode The Ghost Monument. He was a fine host to me back then but even then I could tell he had some anger issues going on. A year later he seemed to become a bit more antagonistic towards myself and a few others in our circle of friends involved with robot combat. With all this in mind I'm still shocked that he would go on to allegedly - at the time of this comment - commit such an irredeemably evil act, it's so horrible to think about. I had to edit his likeness out of a Robot Wars themed chapter of my webcomic as well as remove the blurb he wrote on the back of one of the book collections too. Whatever the outcome of the case, I sincerely hope justice will be done for Natalie and her family.
no you didn’t lol
@@ninjafrog6966 The video is still there if you don't believe me 😏
@@ninjafrog6966and what have you done with you life Mr. Ass of Hat???
i think that really goes to show that the fans of these youtubers don't actually know these people they only the face they put on the internet
@@ninjafrog6966 suprisingly, his video is still up lmao
The fact that he took the time to record a live stream first is like the definition of pre-meditated…
It wont affect the outcome much except its effective evidence. Its life imprisonment for murder either way, no degrees or anything like that. What an idiot though.
@@Ukraineaissance2014Yeah when my friend was murdered, her killer tried to appeal his sentence because the prosecution tried to establish pre-meditation. Luckily the pile of evidence against him was so vast so it stuck.
@Ukraineaissance2014 guaranteed life imprisonment for murder? Here in the states the punishments after conviction have ranged from 2 years to death penalty, it's wild seeing other countries on it
@@skylergarza8371 yes but you have two kinds of life here in the UK, the average life sentence which is in practice around 20 years, and whole life tariff such as the one just recently given to lucy letby which means prison until death. Northern ireland is also slightly different with sentencing, infact they still had the death penalty through the 70s (also lots of whole lifers were released for the good friday agreement there). Due to the violence of the crime, planning and judges really wanting to make examples of high profile killers of women at the moment due to a couple of recent cases I think he will get 30 years before he can apply for parole. Life is the mandatory starting point. Parole is also never guaranteed. We also dont do degrees of murder here, but putting planning into it and other evil stuff like he did will likely to get you that 30 to full life tariff, whereas a drunk fight with a friend ending with a killer punch or similar it could be down at around 15. But yes you are right, its more predictable here while in the US its more common to go to either extremes of sentencing.
24 Hours in Police Custidy is a great series about this stuff.
Actually I was reading about Leadbelly earlier (blues singer who was discovered in prison in the US if you havnt heard about him) and it used to be even crazier back in the day for weird sentencing. You could be hanged or like him do 5 years on a chain gang then get a governers pardon, pretty much dependent on how they felt the day of sentencing.
I dont watch him much anymore, but Markiplier really was a huge part of my childhood. And on the rare occasion that I do watch him it’s just as I remember it, and I’m never disappointed.
Parasocial relationships are weird but almost unavailable. If you spend enough of your time watching someone regularly, even though you DONT actually know them, it’s hard to not feel like you don’t still think you do.
Even though I rarely watch him anymore he’s still my favorite UA-camr just by virtue of the memories I have with his content, and I can still watch a video from time to time and enjoy it from beginning to end.
If he did something terrible and wicked I imagine I would be quite devastated, and I’m not sure how it would feel to look back on my childhood after that.
But I also imagine like with everything else life goes on.
Markiplier is like one of the only youtubers I purposely watch anymore, otherwise its just whatever random videos are on my recommended, like this one. I've been watching mark for so many years now that if something ever came out about him I think I'd lose what little hope i have in humankind. So many other youtubers I've loved watching and played a big part in my childhood have turned out to be terrible people (Miniladd... Ohmwrecker, Wilbursoot, some others I can't think of at the moment) or just straight up died somehow (Etika, Technoblade). If it ever turns out that he has done something atrocious, or if he just dies, or even retires, I think I'm done with youtube.
Also friend I think you mean inevitable not unavailable.
This is an absolutely chilling exposé of a truly horrifying crime that was uniquely orchestrated in the age of the Internet. Your presentation was professional, gripping, and engaging. A subscription well-earned!
On a more personal note, I'm sorry you had to go through the process of seeing an inspirational figure revealed to be such a monster. That kind of grief is always difficult to process. Your statements toward the end were especially profound. Thank you for sharing your perspective!
Love your perspective, as it's easy to forget in "UA-camr commits crime" cases that these people had audiences who actually watched them, enjoyed them, and who get betrayed when they do something evil.
I remember watching the infamous faked livestream when it was happening, I laughed at a couple jokes but eventually started to realise he didn't sound right. I eventually got uninterested from the bad jokes and started to watch something else. When he released his new review on the recently released 13th doctor toy I was ecstatic! I watched with awe and laughed at many of the jokes he made. When the video had finished I scrolled down and started to read the comments... and that's when I started to find out about what he did, I was disgusted. Seeing the comments that were posted on the video, especially from the celestial toymaker I started to get extremely upset. I ended up staying off UA-cam for the rest of the day after making my own comment on the matter under the video.
Honestly that intro was so dope, I know it's pretty unrelated to everything else but just seeing you name all these different dope UA-camrs from all kinds of genres made me smile
I wasn't a viewer of Stephen's videos but this case was huge in Ireland right from the offset. A pregnant woman being murdered in the days leading up to Christmas captured the public's attention and it was all over the news in the few weeks before Stephen was charged. Thank you for adding your personal familiarity to the case
Men suffer more crime
It's wild to see it gained so much media attention. My local news has new homicides to report on almost once a week and that's just for a section of my state. Some cases gain more notoriety than others but even then it's impossible to keep up with all of them. One of them was even an old classmate and she received a couple mentions one week but that was it. Then again this is in the USA so guns are easy to access through either legal or illegal means.
cryaotic was my "don't get too attached" moment. he was basically a comfort youtuber for me, his vtmb series was go-to background noise. i loved "cry reads," i cried at the end of his rakuen series, I'd watched his corpse party series in full at least two or three times. i was really hoping for more vampyr when he released the "let's talk" video. i was appalled and kind of... heartbroken? i remember the comments generally having a sentiment of forgiveness, but it wasn't really theirs to give. i can only imagine that was hard to see for the people he hurt & used, and i hope they're all doing well today.
thankfully, I was less emotionally invested in iilluminaughtii. I'd been noticing a significant drop in the quality of her videos over time - mispronunciations, lines from the script repeated accidentally, an accumulation of simple mistakes. the tone shifted from exposés to gossip & nitpicking. it was like the videos were just being thoughtlessly churned out. so when another youtuber I watch, big joel, made a short video about her accusing legal eagle of plagiarism, that's when I unsubbed & stopped watching. as the situation continued to unfold, it was _staggering_ just how awful she truly was.
Mine was Mini Ladd. I thought he was hilarious. He gave me joy in so many dark moments, I witnessed people freaking propose to one another in his livestreams! And then suddenly I noticed he hadn't uploaded in a while. Suddenly strange comments were appearing under past videos and then...the response came out.
And it was over.
I was devastated. I couldn't imagine what his victims felt I this is what I was going through.
what did she do? I watched like 2 vids ages ago but idk anything about her or anything she did
@@hellworm She tried to ruin the lives of her friends out of spite and committing plagiarism 24/7. That's mostly the surface of what she does.
For me it was Creepshow art and then Illuminaughtii. And I hate how so many UA-camrs I like end up being shit people:(
I used to love Creepshow Art. A lot of people said they “always thought she was annoying” when she got exposed, but I genuinely thought she was funny and I liked her more aggressive tone, not to mention her art, which I thought was really unique. But I genuinely cannot believe how insane she ended up being. Stalking, harassing and abusing someone for like a decade and saying they should have their kids taken away?? Just awful.
The fact that he attended the rally, surrounded by hundreds of genuine victims and victim's families makes me sick to my stomach. I can't begin to imagine the denial, the pain, and the surge of feelings many of those, like yourself, experienced when this news surfaced. What a sick, terrifying individual.
She was texting her ex while pregnant... Karma got her😂😂😂
@@KenediPollard Absolutely. they left this comment on like 9 other peoples comments and you just have to wonder how insensitive and spineless they've got to be to act like that about someone's actual murder - Talk about terminally online
@@societyisscaredofmasculine8546 Even if she was, how the hell is murder the appropriate response?
@@societyisscaredofmasculine8546omg you're one of those dangerous incels. I seriously hope you seek mental help before someone gets hurt
@@bararobberbaron859 karma.. bad things happen to bad people
Unrelated to the topics at large but i GASPED when you included Father StrangeAeons in the intro crawl, i love her
This is gonna be a hard watch, I used to love his content growing up and had got back into it a few months before this all happened
Very much felt. While I'll go more into it in the video in question, I too was practically raised on his stuff during my teen years. I hope what I've made here is able to voice some of the awful/conflicting feelings that you, I, and so many others have.
@@SpacemanScott Fredrik Knudsen is actually making a video on Eve online
@@SpacemanScott yeah boohoo you used to look up to a murderer but what about the woman he literally stabbed to death? don't see a single moment dedicated to her in the video that's not attached to the perpetrator, or one to bring awareness to HOW COMMON it is for women to get murdered by their partners, specially if they're pregnant. the women's aid segment is appreciated, but it's the video's CLOSING MOMENT. you literally spent more time talking about modification madness than you did natalie.
you yourself acknowledge in the video that it's priviledged as fuck to focus on the perspective of a fan of his content. i understand the point you wanted to make, and it has merit, but this video comes off INCREDIBLY exploitative and insensitive, specially considering that it's making you a profit unless the adsense is donated. good point, good concept, but this should've stayed in the drafts.
@@potatopotayto8332 still a good video.
@potatopotayto8332 I understand your points and general argument, but I think it's very important that this video didnt stay in the drafts. Now I dont think I'm all that great with words, so my argument wont be as thorough. I understand how it can be frustrating that he doesn't talk about how common these kinds of crime happen, but the video wasn't entirely about how murder is horrible. It was more about how people you love and trust can turn out to be the lowest scum of the earth and how terrible it feels when you find out. I'm not trying to undermine the murder, in fact I think it'd be good to see a video talk more in depth about the topic of this violence against woman. Though I think it's good that he talked about it at all. I know that I personally would've never known about this horrendous act if it wasn't for this video, and after reading through this comment section there are a lot more people who wouldn't have known either; so for that I think that this video needed to be made.
This case is especially dark and impossible to comprehend because there were seemingly no warning signs. Even the last text exchange between Stephen and Natalie sounded like a normal couple saying good night to each other, no signs of hostility or anger whatsoever. Its the sheer senselessness of the murder, I can't comprehend why he would do this
Purely speculation on my part, but i feel like he craved attention and wanted people to feel sorry for him and maybe even use it for some kind of financial gain, like he did with his parents.
It would not surprise me if he played a part in the deaths of his own parents.
@@jameslfc11indeed purely speculation on your part. that is a rather serious accusation that should not be thrown about lightly.
@@jameslfc11are you like twelve or something? His parents were obviously old as dirt and weak
@@victorialeigh9127 Yeah, hence why I used the words "it wouldn't surprise me", I didn't outright accuse him of anything.
@@Yixdy His mum would have been 63/64 at the time of her death according to the video, not that old is it?
the worst similar case of things I've watched, was JewWario from Channel Awesome. I stayed up late, in tears watching the livestream of his fellow creators eulogizing him after his suicide. And then years later, it came out that he was actually a sexual predator (and his suicide may have been related to him being afraid of that being revealed). It was a massive gut punch.
HE WAS A WHAT
_"Lookin' down on us all."_
Ugh, that line is just harsher in hind-sight.
I remember that one. I used to be a big Channel Awesome fan, but after all that and all the other allegations came to light I couldn't bring myself to watch them again. Still haven't to this day and it just makes me sad to think about.
Hahaha you cried over jewwario of all people
i forgot about jewwario damn
The fact his channel is still up is insane
Why? Useful for evidence, and youtube doesn’t give a shit anyway lol
TBH, deleting the channel would be deleting possible evidence leading to the crime.
We are not entirely sure if he hinted at stuff way before he made up his mind.
Also, deleting it is erasing the fact that we should remember that anyone could snap and you won't notice it in-time. It's like a warning.
Please censor harder daddy
I don’t see why it shouldn’t be, he didn’t violate youtubes terms of service. The videos he made are still entertaining and comforting to some people because someone’s actions does not retroactively cause their prior content to be less entertaining.
The image of Stephen in the crowd amongst the others rallying against violence is so chilling. I am reminded once again that you could be walking down the street, and pass by a murderer, or more.. and you would never know. We all look like humans, and you honestly cannot know the full truth behind someone, not even people you know on a personal level.
We all are humans so yeah it's hard to tell what the deceptive evil ones do.
They do say that the scariest monsters walk among us
Yeah my little brother told me he murdered someone. He’s a lanky goofy meme Lord most of the time but I know what he’s actually capable of. We don’t talk anymore.
@SobrietyandSolace-
Did you convey his "admission" to the proper authorities? If not, I highly recommend you do.
Did he realistically steal another individuals life? No.
Is it incredibly hard to betray a loved one by reporting them? Yes.
Are police often condescending, rude, and committed to doing less than the bare minimum required of them when processing a serious report? HELL YEA.
But, if you haven't reported your sibling, I still encourage you to do so for A. Your own sense of well-being and B. To potentially prevent an admittedly highly unlikely tragedy from taking place in the future.
No judgement here and I'm sorry if the above screen annoyed you/made you feel angry or poorly about yourself.
Unfortunately, I have some experience with this stuff (NOT a murdering sibling, thank God.) and understand what a no-win situation you must be in.
May God bless (This is NOT to force my beleiefs-If you are an atheist, more power to you! I freaking hate evangelists. I may be undeservedly smug and sel-righteous, but at least proselytization isn't one of my many, many, MANY faults/failures.) you and may you do what's best for YOU!
arrrrrg! "...above SCREED," not "SCREEN"! Sorry for my refusal to deal with AC.
its so strange to me that he actually left breadcrumbs like that. this isnt a game its literally someone’s life
For a few years i followed a Gta youtuber called JKgamers, he was arrested two years back for sexual offences against a minor...i was blown away. You never know what goes on behind the camera. Respect for the video, keep on being you.
Update: On September 20th, 2024; Stephen was denied bail. His trial date has been set for May 8th
As someone who once called him a personal friend i am interested in this video, when the news hit i was speechless, i reached out to mutual friends we had, looking back there were signs
The biggest question i have is what led to this event...
You got a Sub from me, keep up the good work
Edit: I'm halfway through and i gotta stop for now as it's very emotional still, for those of wondering the case is adjourned until November 3rd
This video is exactly what was needed at the time, seeing all these big people talk about it and while i know it was hard for those in the community/ peers / this video is well worth the wait
What were the signs?
@@helolady922 things he said in the "livestream" how he was selling everything before the end of the year, the January 1st 2023 NYE post etc
I'm sorry. It's not your fault, you couldn't have changed anything - people will do what they want when they want and nothing anyone says will change that (unless it's therapy.. sometimes it works). I'm just sorry you're going through this as much as the relatives of Natalie. I hope with the court case you can find closure.
oh man I can't imagine how hard that must have been for you to go through, I hope you're doing okay
@@MaxRide1 thank you, while i am international and never met in person it was still a massive shock, it took me a day or 2 to process it and to get back to normal, he has lost all my respect he ever had and i have been following the case closely, Nat's family went through much more, i'm just a guy who happened to get lucky with one of their fave youtubers, there is much more to be said when details come available
I’d heard about this months ago, but I never knew the details and this is so unbelievably disturbing. Just the fact that he orchestrated things so that the stream would show “No Time To Die” on screen while he was murdering her, I just can’t wrap my head around how evil that is. The more I think about it, the more sick I feel. The man planned out the murder of someone who loved him, someone he was supposed to love, and he did so down to the minute so that her death would could coincide with a celebration of/reference to it that he had prepared a week in advance. What kind of a monster does that?
Him
I'm sitting in my room staring at a decade old 12th Doctor Tardis toy I sloppily modified because of how much I loved his videos and I'm not gonna lie I feel like I'm gonna throw up. You did a great job with this video and I genuinely agree with the message but this is extremely hard to process
Don't let him steal your joy. He stole all possible joy from so many people. He doesn't deserve to taint more joyful things for others.
You should turn it in for evidence
Good luck man, I did the same thing to one of my Sonic Screwdriver's and every time I look at it I still feel a little queezy
You own the experience you have with the media you consume. No one else but you know yourself, being a fan of something is not devotional (often is a blend of devotion and personal joy). I wish you the best 😔
In a DnD campaign I'm in I play a master type charachter. Hes an awful person who has needlessly murdered several people and covered it all up.
He had his own "sonic wand" and I custom made it IRL using his modification madness videos.
Now it just feels weird. I used a murderer's videos to make a murderers tool. 😨😨
One of my favorite books used to be The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley. It's a feminist retelling of King Arthur's story and I was obsessed with it. One of its protagonist, Morgana Le Fay, spoke to me like no other character. I loved her so much. However, I haven't been able to reread the book since I knew her author was accused by her own daughter of abuse (including SA), neglect and basically the most horrifying things you can do to other human beings. And what once was my favorite book contains easter eggs of her behavior and believes, hidden behind plausible deniability.
Your video helped me to feel less alone in this, although I don't think I'm there yet and I don't know when I will but thank you.
Good on you for not doing that "I was *never* a fan really" people often do when their fave celebrities do something wrong. Shows you have a lot of integrity.
I don't know why people feel so guilty about it when often there was no way they could've known. Just admit that you enjoyed their work and thought they had a great on-screen personality, and feel disappointed with their real-life personality.
I mean, I have felt pretty guilty about the 'anti-sjw' youtubers I used to watch way back, but that's because their shittiness wasn't hidden and I watched them because I also held some of those shitty opinions, so that's not really the same.
I`m a woman and this is exactly one of the reasons I`m worried about ever living alone. Imagine the attention to detail and planning this had to have taken. And for his pregnant girlfriend to be the victim too. That`s nightmare fuel.
I don't want to make you feel worse but a lot of women are killed by their partner in their home or when they try to leave so living alone can be safer than living with a partner sometimes. :/ it's a scary world. But there are good people out there too
@@bookshelfhoney Such is the hedgehog's dilemma. It would not be a dilemma if there was never any risk in letting someone close enough to love. But never let it sour you utterly or reduce you to reclusive fear, for there is good in the world still.
You are far more likely to be killed by a boyfriend or husband than by a rando breaking in. If you want to go for the safest option, live alone and remain celibate.
@@Shnarfbirdthat’s the human race for ya.
ngl i agree with another commenter. being afraid to live alone is understandable, but what we should be more afraid of is living with a man. out of all murdered women, most had known their murderer in life - you can look up different years and different countries, this number is always around 60% to 70%. so technically, living alone and spending time alone is definitely safer.
It's honestly crazy how these kinds of plans always have their "fatal flaw". It always felt like poor writing in detective stories, but even in real life the most meticulous plans get found out by tiny details. Imagine how much stronger his case could've been if he had considered things like waiting to dispose of his clothes until more time had passed, or left his phone on in his home while he was doing it instead of having it off the whole time then turning it back on right when he got back.
I mean it is really hard to get away with a crime there's just infinite little factors and details to consider that could instantly get you incriminated. Especially in our digital, data driven age. To successfully commit a crime (PSA: don't.) you have to be very lucky (police not giving a shit, some very convenient circumstances to utilize, an unlucky person to frame, etc.) and preferably very far from the civilization.
It's just a very dumb thing to attempt. The killers are usually very impulsive, reckless, thrill seeking people with anger issues and sadistic tendencies so they don't really care about this kinda stuff. So yeah most crimes out there aren't really some meticulously crafted detective stories but rather just people being violent assholes with poor self control and a grudge.
@@greatwave2480yeah, the most "successful" serial killers were only successful because the police didn't care
If the"live" stream would've just been less stuffed with references of murder and had been more coherently planned out, then it would've at least bought him just a little more time.
@@dagda1180 i think he *wanted* people to know he did it because I just can't believe he was this stupid to think that he could use such a suspicious stream as his alibi and get away with it. Unless no one bothered to actually watch it.
The single fact that he allegedly had a sudden technical problem that never occurred to him before(does this specific type of problem even exist? why didn't he at least try to fix it?) is sussy enough even without the references. And the fact that this stream was completely unplanned...
A person that thought things through probably also wouldn't kill their pregnant girlfriend.
I was a VoteSaxon07 fan, much like you, when I was of a similar age. To say I was shocked about this sad, dark, and seemingly unexpected turn of events is an understatement. In a strange way, I guess I feel numb about it, because you know that there are horrible people who present as nice, or 'normal' and then will do something that you think is out of character, but it's their true nature. Moral of the story is to expect people to let you down, because they always do.
I think as you grow older, a common lesson that is learned is that the people who you grow to like or love may not always be good people. It can be extremely personal like your parents, or even complete strangers such as your favorite UA-camr. I never heard of VoteSaxon07, but his story reminds me of similar figures in my life: Miniladd, Mr. Anime, SkyDoesMinecraft, Cryoatic, Arcadum, Fedmyster. Not only are they very egregious people to varying degrees, but it shatters that innocence you once felt. It’s as if the world becomes a lot more darker.
I think a message I’d add upon this video is that the world isn’t black and white. Hell, it isn’t even gray. The world is full of color that includes everything from the brightest of sunshine yellow to the darkest of blacks. There are bad people in the world, and some of which you will idolize. The best thing to do is simply mourn what you lost, and paint over it with a new beautiful color. The remnants are still there, but at least they don’t consume you.
You have such a way with words, it's amazing. You would be a great youtuber yourself honestly. Sorry for the out of pocket compliment, your comment was just too well written to go without praise.
@@FONT-gb1hu Agreed, sounds like the script of a decent video essay
I watched both skydiesminecraft and jinbop
I have stopped trusting Minecraft youtubers
The worst part is even the people who seem like they should be better than that turn out to be some of the worst. one of my favorite philosophy (?) youtubers turned out to be an abuser and a r*pist
beat his wife i think@@duckfilms3662
happened to me and Cryotic. Was so upset when he decided to be a child predator. sickening. I feel like SO MANY youtubers are into children recently and its so scary and gross.
The Cryotic thing hit me hard too... he seemed like a genuinely good guy, but we didn't really know him :/
I was sad to learn about Cry too. But I never thought I knew him. I wasn't surprised but just so disappointed.
I feel like a lot of men in our every day lives, men we are close to, would be child predators if given the chance… You can’t trust anyone. What happens (I think) is that when these male youtubers get a huge following over the years, they will be more pressured to give their audience what they want and not be able to make videos for fun and enjoy it like they use to. At some point it becomes all about what the viewers want and how to gain more viewers.
So essentially they will feel some level of powerlessness and when a young and naive fan becomes close to them, who puts them on a pedestal, it will feel like a way to gain back some of their control by taking advantage of this young fan.
Pair that with how emotionally stunted and immature some UA-camrs seem, they’ll justify it in their head that they’re not doing anything wrong (like the gross Colleen ballinger who was adamant on how she didn’t “do” anything and probably made herself believe that encouraging young children to take photos of their naked parts wasn’t as bad as physically abusing them).
Also, the more power you give someone the more he will be convinced he can get away with.
I guess that’s the best way I can explain it and it still terrifies me that any UA-camr you look up to, is able to commit such horrendous acts. But that goes for anyone in your social circle and even your family that you think you might know, we can never really know.
@@udontevenwannaknowbruv ot just men. sexual abuse of minors by women is actually quite common, too. it's just not talked about much.
which is also why quite a few of the recent scandals were in fact female youtubers who are pedos.
I'm seeing alot more youtube murderers lately, which scares me even more
I remember interacting with him in comments, raging with him against UA-cam's overzealous copyright striking, watching the video about his mum dying and offering my condolences, talking about the state of Doctor Who, and making it a tradition to watch his new years eve videos every year, even after I stopped watching the channel. From about the ages 12-14, he was one of the most prominent UA-camrs I watched, and with him being a small creator especially, it made it feel like he was one of your friends. Every now and then, I checked in on his channel to see how he was doing and it felt just like catching up with an old friend. And now reflecting on the role he played in my life as a young teenager, the time feels tainted. I am shocked over this, I would never have thought he'd be capable of it. He always came across as a funny but sad individual, like the archetypal sad clown, but I never thought he was this dangerous and this sick. I've donated to woman's aid as a small token of retribution for supporting and engaging with Stephen and in the knowledge that they help women escape the clutches of evil men like him. What happened to Natalie McNally shouldn't have to happen to anybody, and if we can help in some small way to support charities that get women out of these kinds of relationships before its too late, then we should. My thoughts are with her friends and family, may she rest in peace.
Everyone is capable of evil unfortunately, the best way to look at it is to have what he was to you be like a separate person, after all people can change a lot.
Please note that things happen to men too. Both men and women can be victims of murder or abuse.
@@no-one-1 god, can you PLEASE BE QUIET? go preach about how "men can be victims too!" in a video of a male victim and leave women alone.
@@amcats1149 write an essay somewhere else, lady. my point wasn't that he was wrong to say men can be victims too, because they obviously can, it's that these people only bring up male victims so they have the opportunity to downplay female victims' suffering and shift the topic away from female victims.
@@ReiAnikaAyanami dude everyone is equal in suffering. Sadly, most of the time women are victims. Like I said my Aunt was a victim so I apologize if it seems like I’m downplaying female victims.
One of my favorite UA-camrs at one Point was ApolloLegend. I was just getting into Speedrunning and his Videos were always a delight for me. He wasnt a monster, but a terminally ill young man that could not handle the pain anymore and took his own life. Something died within me the day i found out.
So weird to think of the suicide of a terminally ill man upon hearing of a murderer who streamed a prerecorded video as an alibi.
I know you said you didn't wanna make this video about you, but honestly telling this story from your personal perspective is a poignant message to not get too parasocial. Thank you.
I've met this guy in person and collaborated with him numerous times. Kind of makes me feel sick as to what he did :/
@@ninjafrog6966he actually might’ve
“Kind of makes me sick” seems like a bit for an understatement…
@@ninjafrog6966 they both have similar interests so maybe he did when maybe
I forgot his name was a small channel
As someone who has met both Jimjamatic and Stephen, I can attest that what Jim is saying is correct. Stephen was a key figure in our robotic combat community
@ninjafrog6966 maybe look at his actual channel before assuming. That's unfathomably disrespectful.
Natalie was such a supportive partner too. She deserved the energy she radiated. RIP Queen.
I think it’s worth acknowledging that parasociality is not inherently bad- but it is dangerous. There’s a way to l accept it as both an inevitability and a potential force for good while understanding the potential pitfalls and hazards, both from a creator perspective and that of an audience member. Ultimately I just don’t think the “Schrodinger’s Murderer/Abuser/Nonce” approach is necessarily healthier than allowing oneself to trust and risk being betrayed again and again- the latter sets you up for acute pain, the former for emotional paralysis. Developing fondness and empathy so readily is one of the best things humanity has going for us, and while we should exercise caution I don’t really think it’s productive to suggest that this capacity is something we need to exorcise, if that makes sense. At the same time, it’s important to bring horrible situations like this to light so we can face the dark side of that totality as well. Good video. 👏
This is actually how I found out about this. I've watched his stuff on and off for nearly 13 years at this point and insane to think how this ended. I had seen that he stopped uploading but I just was taking a break, he mentioned in a video that he was struggling because of some algorithm thing. I didn't look into it and could never imagine something like this. When it comes to youtuber scandals I expect racist comments or sexual misconduct, which are obviously bad but they aren't murdering your pregnant girlfriends and laughing about on a stream. That's insane.
I’d say this is one of the most shocking exposures because there was nothing in his content that made you think he could be someone that twisted behind the scenes nor have signs of cracks in the mask. Miniladd’s was pretty shocking but there were cracks going on with his public persona when he answered why he’s not with Vanoss and the crew anymore on a livestream; you could tell something was up with him before the shit really hit the fan.
Steven? You wouldn’t know anything was up. He wasn’t grooming minors (Mini), being a Crypto Bro (Too many to specify), selling scams (Established Titles anyone), fabricating evidence against someone else (Creepshow Art and her clique) or being a lolcow (Yandere Dev) that would be breaking news on UA-cam at the first hour. As far as I recall, he was never involved in any drama that’s public.
dude same, im just now seeing this and to think i went back to binge some of my favorite old videos and was wondering what happened to the channel only months ago and now seeing this is just a major shock.
@rayvenkman2087
Or you know, there weren't any carcks because he wasn't wearing a mask?
I find it interesting how people always tend to think of these things as hidden monsters coming to light.
People are much more complex, much more deep - and thus capable of more than you'd think.
Don't fall into the comfortable trap of thinking there are monsters amongst people - there are always only just people - with all that that entails.
This situation occupies such a weird space in my head...
Not only did I always watch Steven as a kid, but I'm from the same part of the world as him. Like I see this CCTV footage and I KNOW where he is, I've BEEN on half of these streets
Feels strange tbh
She didn't do what this dude did, but the end of your video really reminded me of how I felt about iilluminaughtii. She used to be my favorite youtuber until all the allegations broke this summer. Now I just feel hurt and embarrassed I ever liked her content. Sometimes you can throw it all away. It depends on what the creator did.
what happened with illuminaughtii?
@@iibnbiibn Well... A lot of stuff. *A lot.*
To resume: she stole a lot of content on UA-cam, she has a tendancy of falsely accused anyone of terrible things (example: she accused The Click of protecting a groomer on his server but the truth is he is Swedish and, when the groomer had been call out and obliterated out of existence, was sleeping), bullied people both on Internet and both IRL when she was a student, etc...
And trust me, seeing how this person truly is, the Rabbit Hole is at its limits to be endless.
also a pattern of emotionally and financially abusing young men, repeatedly hiring and getting them to depend on her so she can emotionally abuse and isolate them. @@iibnbiibn oh also she owns a crypto farm lmao
She became the monsters she fought against' very disappointing 😞
@@iibnbiibn she also has a history of pressuring younger friends and partners into ill-advised financial decisions that consistently benefitted her, and included a former friend's s**cide note in her response video to prove a point.
14:54 "can't look at the livechat for some bloody reason" 💀
Jesus Christ. I''d not heard of this case before, but the way that man left goddamn murder "easter eggs" in his fake alibi stream is so supremely fucked up.
A previous answer of "who's your favorite UA-camr?", for me, would've been Cryaotic. His actions weren't as vile as this man's, but I was still heartbroken when some of the shit he did got revealed. Thank you for this video and for the compassion and respect you rightfully treated the subject matter with.
I completely agree. Especially the cryaotic part, I absolutely loved him.
someone else here in the comment section speculated he might've planned it as a murder suicide so he didn't care that much about being found out and he just wanted the morbid fame of his last theatrical 'pose', and he just got cold feet after murdering her. Complete speculation of course.
The UA-cam algorithm is strange, I had no idea that it was about Natalie McNally until I saw the opening segment which had the plane G-UFCG, I recognised it as an Ulster Flying Club (UFC) aeroplane then realised what this was about.
I live in Northern Ireland in a village near Lisburn, where Stephen McCullagh resides. Of course we were well aware of the case, but I always dismissed him as just some obscure UA-camr. This is actually an interesting perspective from someone who likes him, which I never thought of him having any meaningful following, so thank you for this.
I know my anecdotes are absolutely trivial, but I thought I'd share them anyway.
The case has shaken us here. I go to the college that Natalie McNally studied at, and once I was waiting for an exam and an older woman was passing by and pointed out a wall display. It was just a standard advertisement for the college, but it had a picture of Natalie in it. I was also taking a driving lesson and drove past the court once where he was and it was swarming with members from the press. My driving instructor told me what was happening and how absolutely disgusted he was about it.
Anyway, thank you for this insight from a viewer's perspective. I was completely unaware that such a thing even existed.
Edit: I think when I saw the picture on the wall, we probably didn't even know who the suspect was at this point.
Nothing could have prepared me for this. I never knew this man. Thought you were gonna say "ah he fell awf, said a couple of slurs and has become unlikeable over the years" but holy /fuck/ this was way worse. I'm speechless. R.I.P. Natalie.
Edit: this comment was made right after the video being posted, at which moment it was named "votesaxon07 and the fate of the idolized youtuber". This is why I commented like I didn't know the subject matter of it. It was later changed to it's current title. I hope this clarifies things.
It literally says in the title that the youtuber was a murderer. What are you talking about that you didn’t know what the video is about??? Wtf???
Bozo
@@sherezadevergara9440 He changed the title after a bit. It was called "votesaxon07 and the fate of the Idolized UA-camr" before.
@@pandoriasbox the old title is better because of the twist
@@juarezamorim to be honest while the twist title is extemely good i would not have clicked on this video if it wasn't "my favorite youtuber was a murderer"
i respect the clickbait game
for who's asking, the song heard at 0:15 is a slowed version of "HOME - Decay" (know it because i have it as a phone allarm)
Getting older it's hard not to throw everything away with a "burn your heroes" mentality. I appreciate that you're encouraging everyone to put that joy and happiness and excitement that they got from these people back out into the world. Maybe our old heroes were monsters, but that doesn't mean we have to give up. This was a hard video to watch, and harder to make I'm sure. Thanks for putting it out there.
Rest in peace, Natalie. Its horrible how the person who betrayed her was so close to her... Gives me horrible anxiety.
Not nearly as dark, but learning that Gus Johnson was a horrible abusive partner to Sabrina and didn’t even have the decency to be with her when she was having emergency life-threatening surgery and accepting the loss of their child (it was an ectopic pregnancy) was devastating for me. I pride myself in having a strong discernment for shady UA-camrs at this point, and Gus always came off as a small town guy with a good sense of humor (and the occasional intense opinion/rant on things like door dash). He really reminded me of my hometown and gave me comfort when I felt homesick, and he paired so well with Eddy Burback I loved their podcast of two wholesome guys. It was doubly betraying to see his audience, one I thought I was a part of, completely devolve into incel rage when Sabrina posted her story (without even naming Gus) I can’t even watch the few episodes left anymore knowing what he did. I can’t even go to his channel without feeling disgusted, even more so that he continues to post like nothing ever happened. I don’t normally get so hurt but I genuinely had to mourn the loss of that for a while, and it sucks that Eddy was clearly so hurt as well by it.
I feel the exact same. I thought he was a reasonable guy, it was such a shock to find out he was the complete opposite of who I thought he was. same goes for the fans who defended him. I trusted that guy to make good decisions as much as you can reasonably trust a stranger on the internet :(
I too pride myself on having good discernment, and I hate this aspect of the internet that you can’t just watch a comedy video or animal video anymore or else something terrible might be presented to you in connection with it. The comedy creator gets outed for xyz and the next animal video that’s recommended to you is abuse p-rn. UA-cam breaks my faith in humanity over its knee.
Do we know her story is true ? Just wondering.
Hey the guys from balloonshop have never had any bad accusations so at least there's that
My friends and I found him streaming on Twitch doing an unboxing stream, and the second one of my friends said "wife check", she got banned.
He is actually deranged. And all the people in his chat were calling US stupid for that lmao
@@tristantries9211 Maybe you should do the research yourself before implying that someone could be lying. I mean seriously? Lying about a medical issue like that, are you dumb? Don't you realize that if that's the case, Gus would call her out immediately? Why would a sane person even consider doing something like that...
Scott, your voice is smoooooth. I did not know he recorded her parents, that is beyond creepy because it is so calculating...and also smart, but mostly horrifying. When monsters take their mask off it is often heartbreaking. Also, you have an attractive face and know how to coif yourself nicely. It's always nice to see a man who knows how to look put together. Subscribed!
That live stream is so deeply frightening. The references…. It’s gonna haunt me a bit. I know how it feels to find out that one of your favorite UA-camrs is a sick freak or a monster, if feels really gross especially if they’ve inspired your humor, creative work, or outlook on life.
Except why should it? Their actions do not alter you. Cull the chaff, keep the grain.
@@BoundlessEnnuiIt’s probably because of “guilt by association.” People can feel terrible when they realize their inspirations were coming from a horrible person.
Yeah, there’s separating art from the artist, but you still can’t help but feel a little guilty when you remember the person who made it. Sure, it’s nothing, and ultimately does no harm as long as you aren’t directly supporting the terrible creator, but sometimes it’s hard to shake those feelings.
I see it as a cocky cringey edge lord who thought he was slick and put in cheesy easter eggs in his lame stream.
Sometimes it gets to the point where one has to treat the online persona as a character and to separate the character from the real person playing them.
One can like the online persona while loathing the real person behind it. Sometimes it's easier said than done with some people, depending on the severity of the misdeed.
I have no idea who this is but I’m watching anyways, and I wasn’t surprised that his girlfriend was pregnant. The second leading cause of death for pregnant women is homicide.
Gonna be more common, in the US at least, with the overturning of Roe V Wade and the 'crusade' against planned parenthood and sex education in general.
So fucking bleak
@@Yixdy This is in Britain and has nothing to do with an American court case that allows a nation 2,000 miles away to have smaller State areas create rules around abortion, come on.
Give a thought to Natalie, not begin on about a "crusade against sex education in general" in another country. What's this got to do with sex ed? Just one touch of sensitivity.
A "planned parenthood" means something else in the USA than it does to me in the UK because it means that the parenthood was planned, ie, not accidental, so there would be no need for abortion. American-centric thinkers win again, even on cases in ol' Blighty.
@@AdamOwenBrowningTell me you don't care about global women's issues (ie women outside your country) without telling me. Yikes.
@@AdamOwenBrowning bro, giving a thought to Natalie would be to try and keep this from happening again and supporting other women, regardless of where they are you fucking twat. Not just "oh, the poor lass, such a shame innit. Oh well, back to top gear repeats and tea." That shit helps no one and nothing, besides maybe yourself to make you feel better and think "I'm so empathetic, go me." Fuck that, these things happen constantly and WILL get worse if things aren't done about it
@@AdamOwenBrowningwas the original comment talking exclusively about the UK? no? oh, it was talking about women in general which would include the US? who woulda thought. just one touch of sensitivity. UK-centric thinkers, man.
This happened to me with a youtuber names Exurb1a. He’s a philosophy youtuber who I looked up to for his thought provoking, inspiring videos. I bought 2 of his books and watched his videos whenever I was feeling down. I grew up watching him, and in a way I am who I am today because of him.
A couple years back I heard he had sexually assaulted and emotionally abused his girlfriend for years. When proof of this came out and he was taken to court, he won the case and the girl was dismissed as crazy, being attacked by his youtube fans. His channel is still around today. Sometimes I wonder if his actions and beliefs behind the curtain rubbed on me through his public videos on philosophy.
I don’t really have a point here, I just wanted to get it out there that we don’t always know who we think are our heroes.
I thought I went crazy FINALLY someone talks about this!!! I remember I saw him in a comment section and felt a deep sadness because people were saying how much they liked him..
how was he proven innocent with evidence? and I used to watch his stuff too, just havent been seeing it for a while
So.. He didnt do it then
@@IronKorei dont know about his specific case and the evidence against him, but if it went to jury theres a chance he was seen as sympathetic and given a pass or there was evidence but not enough to eliminate reasonable doubt. i am studying in the criminal justice field and some of the reasonings from decisions from the juries for DA and SA cases are absolutely insane.
Well that’s mildly disappointing.
You've got that murder mystery narrator voice, shame I had to find such a skilled UA-camr covering such a depressing topic.
I think the most chilling thing in that livestream wasn't really directly addressed by you. The bitterness about the holidays, and how it's no longer about YOU but the 'next generation'. Stated somewhere within the 6 hour period of time where he was murdering both his girlfriend, and what would have been his 'next generation' gestating within her, a week before Christmas. Is it weird I immediately find myself wondering if that was the motive? So gross and so tragic, I'm really surprised I'd not even heard about this.
This dude sounds like a massive man child. It's no wonder he couldn't stomach having to "give up" his childhood comforts
Was the child definitely his? She was in contact with an ex and maybe he found out and snapped.
@@bushmonster1702Why would that matter in the fucking slightest??
@@anstupid4093because it could establish a motive? why wouldn't it matter? Dude's still a complete POS
@@anstupid4093 The answer is that it shouldn't. I didn't know the woman, so to me saying that she could've potentially cheated on him is purely a baseless accusation, made by someone trying to justify murder. Which frankly speaks very, very, loudly about the person who said it. It screams to me like someone who would be willing to kill a partner for being unfaithful themselves, and to defend their willingness to do so, they try to justify an actual honest to God real murder of a woman expecting a child, with the same braindead justification that they would use themselves as to why they would kill their unfaithful partner.
Fucking hell, even if she did cheat, which again seems to be a wildly baseless accusation without any proof in reality to me, because guess what? Loads of people can run into, and in turn interact with an ex, without jumping their bones, and that's assuming she actually was even in contact with her ex which Bushmonster conveniently didn't provide any proof of. And well, even if she did in fact cheat on him, which I still heavily doubt she did, it still wouldn't justify murder. Nothing can justify killing someone in cold blood, not even if said person cheated on you.
Filing a formal complaint for the Coleen Ballinger jumpscare at 34:56. Her and that ukulele will haunt me for the rest of my days
how the fuck is this video still up
thank you so much for covering this case!
a lot of murder cases here in NI get overshadowed, and this is the first time i've seen a case local to me looked into in detail on youtube. thank you for making this, may natalie and dean rest in peace, they did not deserve any of this, at the hands of this monster.
This story is horrifying, and your perspective as a former fan is really interesting and sympathetic. You handled it with delicacy and respect, and I feel for you and his other fans. Unfortunately people can have good or entertaining qualities AND commit horrific acts, and they can hide in plain sight.
I've never heard of Steven, or his channel before (nor this one, actually), but I found this story genuinely heartbreaking. It seems in bad taste to give a compliment, considering the subject matter, but this video was very well done.
I had a favorite channel as a kid, that being Venturiantale. I was obsessed with the siblings, as they felt like the friends that I never really had in elementary school (sounds kinda sad I know). It hurt my heart as a now-college student to find out how the siblings were treated in their household, specifically Bethany and Cierra. To think that all the videos I watched were taking place while they were being isolated, emotionally abused, and had forced homophobic and misogynistic beliefs onto them is both hard to fathom, and just really painful. It really shows just how little we know about people who we thought we knew so well.
I also thought of VenturianTale when I saw this. They were my favorite channel when I was a kid in 2013/2014, and it was so sad to see the channel degrading over the years... then Bethany released her video. I hope she and Cierra are doing well now.
Really happy to hear Venturiantale mentioned. They were probably my favorite channel when I was younger, and it's kind of hard to describe how I felt "seen" by their content and such, but I did. It's one of the strange scenarios in which, despite Jordan and Isaacs views towards a group of people I admit I'm a part of, I can't even feel anger. Just melancholic acceptance, almost.
I was absolutely obsessed with venturiantale in middle school and when I checked on the channel like a year ago I was shocked to hear how the girls were treated. It’s weird looking back at the sibling antics throughout their channel and recontextualizing them with the knowledge that all of them were discouraged to have friendships outside their home, so they only really had each other and a few other people.
they were the only channel i watched on youtube for like two years when i first started using youtube. i didn’t even know about this situation, glad i saw this comment.
I was just thinking about this myself; I loved VenturianTale as a young teen and used to watch their stuff regularly, quoting some of their running jokes even years later. I had already distanced myself from them emotionally somewhat, after seeing one of the girls say that she didn't support/believe in LGBT (though from what I know now I don't think that was actually true, but she was too afraid to say otherwise) but as an oldest sibling of four who loved making OCs and roleplaying silly stuff like that, they still had a special place in my heart, especially Venturian himself.
I stopped watching their stuff before things came to light, but I saw them mentioned in another video about FNAF UA-camrs that kinda lost popularity and faded out, and upon seeing the comments talking about the details the video missed, I went searching for Bethany's explanation from two years ago. It hurt my heart to see her so heartbroken and still unpacking all the things she had grown up under and everything she had lost when she finally left it behind.
As it turned out, I found it right around the time Bethany started uploading again, and seeing the light in her eyes that I don't think I had ever seen there before was a relief to see. It sounds like she's doing well now, married to someone who loves and supports her, and still taking the steps she needs to take care of herself. I wish Bethany and Cierra all the best (and from how Bethany still talks highly about their mom, I hope she can find the support she needs as well).
when I didn't know anything outside of "domestic violence and murder" I assumed it must've been a guy going too far during a fight and then hurriedly covering it up, but with how meticulously planned it was I rly wanna know _why_ he did it. what's the motive? what could she possibly have done, or what did he somehow believe she had done, to make him so firmly believe her to be deserving of such a carefully planned death?
I mean, she was expecting their first child. The most common cause of death of pregnant women is spousal murder. The motive usually being that the spouse doesn't actually want to have a child. It's unfortunately common.
@@umusuuk (for some reason youtube won't give me a "read more" to click so I can't see the whole comment ugh)
Same. He seemed like such a harmless, lighthearted, goofy guy. I know real life murderers can just look like regular people, but it's hard to imagine that he had such darkness in him
It is horrifyingly common for men to kill their wives/girlfriends in a premeditated way. Usually the only 'reason' is they got a new gf behind her back and dont want to deal with a divorce, or they don't want to have kids (like the other commenter said), and they thought they could get away with it. This reminds me of the murders of Susan Cox Powell, Laci Peterson, and the Watts family.
The "livestream" and the performative hinting elements is such a unique and odd aspect of it though. Most of these guys want to get away with it. Although a lot of them also seem to think they're way smarter than police & end up making sloppy mistakes that allow them to be caught
I hadn't heard much about this case before this video but I'll be looking out for when the trial wraps up and we have access to more information
@@cybrmaTSOne one hand it seems a weak justification. But thinking about it, I guess that having to raise and/or maintain a child of a woman you have no interest in being with anymore (with no fault of your own) is a big burden, a lifelong commitment.
There should be structures to help men in these situations. I'm not justifying the horrible act, but I can understand how some people might see themselves cornered.
That photo of Stephen in the crowd at the rally is haunting.