I'm just reading Ovett's biography, and it says, after his Europa Cup win on 13th August 1977, which I mentioned in my previous post a short time ago, Ovett was scheduled to next race against Walker in the Highland Games, but he missed his flight, so instead he decided to run a few miles in the Dartford Half Marathon! This took place on 20th August, 1977. He had intended to drop out part way through, but felt good, and went on to win the race in 65 minutes, 38 seconds! Then on 29th August, he won the 800m at Crystal Palace, and then this race, the World Cup, took place on 3rd of September, just two weeks after the half marathon. Even more crazy, is that Walker and Wessinghage knew Ovett ran the half marathon and so that is why you see Wessinghage lead out in a fast 56.48 and then Walker take up the pace. They had teamed up to try and run the sting out of Ovett! The book, Simon Turnbull's "Steve Ovett - Portrait Of An Athlete", 1982, page 65, also states Steve's last 100m here was 11.8 seconds, and when you see him waving, he says he was waving to his parents! A lot of people get hung up and say he was arrogant, but remember, he was just a 21 year old kid at the time! Fascinating reading!
It was his penultimate 100m that was reported at the time as 11.8 by his coach, Harry Wilson, who hand timed it from the infield. When looking at it on video it was more like 12.0, still incredible! His last 100m was 13.1, but he waved and let up a bit in the last 30m. If he'd pushed all the way to the finish he could probably have run 24.8 for last 200m
He was tremendous- not arrogant, just having fun, like Muhammad Ali, who was more boastful of course. Coe always struck me as colder and more arrogant. I'll be interested to read his biography- who wrote it?
Ovett actually beat Barry Watson ar Dartford, Barry was British Marsthon Champion and had run for Britain in the previous years Olympics. I asked Barry recently how he felt about being remembered for that race. His reply was he was a big Ovett fan.
In this kind of form, what a shame he didn't run against Juantorena in the 800m, then again, this was a good field too... Coe should have turned up a bit earlier & he could have featured in the 800m.
Thanks so much for posting - I really enjoyed seeing this race again! Steve Ovett raising the curtain on the 'golden decade' of British middle distance running (soon to be joined by Messrs Coe, Moorcroft, Cram, Elliott, McKean and the often forgotten Cook, Robson, Williamson etc) I salute all these guys...for the pleasure and inspiration they provided. And OMG, could we do with them now!!!
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Between 1977 and 1990 Britain won 12 gold medals at 1500m across the Olympics, World Cup, World Championship, European Championship & Commonwealth Games. These were shared between Coe, Ovett, Cram, Moorcroft & Elliot. You will never again get 5 milers like that at the same time in these islands. Rejoice that you were alive at the time. 1977 World Cup - Ovett, 1978 Commonwealth Games - Moorcroft, 1978 European Championship - Ovett, 1980 Olympics - Coe, 1981 World Cup - Ovett, 1982 European Championship - Cram, 1982 Commonwealth Games - Cram, 1983 World Championship - Cram, 1984 Olympics - Coe, 1986 Commonwealth Games - Cram, 1986 European Championship - Cram, 1990 Commonwealth Games - Elliot.
It looked as though he was just jogging along until he made his move. He was so comfortable he probably could have gone earlier and threatened the world record.
The guy was by himself back then. Made a world class field look like mugs. Just a 400m runner being carried around on a moped until popping off for the last 200m.
If you could somehow have a level playing field and include all the mile/1500 greats in history no one beats peak Steve Ovett in a single race,he could stay with them all and outkick anyone.
What a marvellous athletic perfomance by Mr Ovett, when he was young and in his prime. (That race took place on 3rd September, 1977, I believe - when he was 21 years of age.) It is a pity that he was not able to replicate that scintillating form in the Olympic 1500 metres final in Moscow, three years later. Had he been able to do so, he would have given Sebastian Coe a good run for his money - and may even have beaten him. Mr Ovett, in his prime, was unquestionably an awesome athlete.
Ooooooooooh most definitely,,,,on this particular night ovett had sub 3:30 in those legs,, fully recovered from the darford half marathon,,,he now had the strength of a half marathoner/5000,m (13:25/) 400m 47,5 (1974!!!!!!!!!) OVETT COULD HAVE RUN 3:28/3:29 THAT NIGHT,,,, CAN YOU IMAGINE IT? WELL,, When Dave moorcroft did what he did in Oslo in 1982 nobody saw that one coming did THEY,,??? Not only SMASHING HENRY RONO,S WORLD RECORD BY 6 SECONDS BUT NEARLY BECOMING THE FIRST TO ATTAIN DUB 13:00 FOR 5000 METRES!!!!!!!!! Ovett in finishing like this means he had another ,,,,,4/5 seconds in him,,, WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAT,??? 11'8 for the penultimate 💯,m !!!!!!!!!! THAT SAYS IT ALL AND I STILL BELIEVE IN THE MOSCOW 800 M FINAL WHEN OVETT RAN ,50'6 FINAL 400M(STILL THE FASTEST LAST LAP IN AN OLYMPICS AFTER 42 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!) STEVE WAS CAPABLE OF SMASHING HIS 1978 BEST OF 1:44'09 BECAUSE HIS 1978 TIME WAS FULLY DUE FOR RENDITION!!!!!!!!!
@@simonedwards5564I fully agree he was a 3:27/28 1500 guy. Such a shame he smashed his knee in and got sick in LA. Totally dominant here, a Coe wouldn’t have lived with him here
Like Jim Ryun I don't think we saw the limit of Ovett's ability. If he could run 3:30.77 in 1983 when he was past his best he should have been able to run 3:29 in about 1981. I think after Moscow he lost his desire and the 'rail' injury knocked something out of him. Still Britain's greatest runner IMHO.
Great performance by Ovett. For me there was something almost magical about that time in the late 70s and early 80s when the rivalry between Coe, Ovett and Cram developed that made you proud to be British without any hint of supposed jingoism or sense of breast beating superiority. Just pride in dedicated athletes doing their best. Also great to see New Zealander John Walker, who was another legend of the track, who was not at his best in this race but always seemed to be there or thereabouts at a races end. Great times.
When Ovett was in top form, such as in this race, he could beat anyone from any era. He ran 11.8 for the penultimate 100m, then coasted in the final 100. HIs final 200 was 25.1, and he wasn't even trying in the final 100m. Incredible runner.
This was vintage Ovett at a time when he could beat anyone in the world. This race was also the start of the golden era of middle distance running which would go on to 1986.
Amazing last 250m, and amazing that in the next few years the world record would drop by several seconds thanks to Ovett, Coe and then Cram. In 1977, in this race Ovett ran a British record of over 3:34!
A sub 55 for the last lap by Ovett. This includes running about 180m really hard, coasting the last 60-80m, and a fairly decent speed for the first 160-180 m. What would his time have been, if he tried to run most or all of the last lap hard?
"...and there's one man's blazing speed that has torn this field asunder!" What a line from the legendary David Coleman! I have never forgotten this commentary. This was Ovett at his very best.
Ovetts acceleration here was phenomenal! Quite honestly Walker ,who in the blink of an eye,was suddenly 25m behind ,so unsurpisngly the 1-43 half miler former mile record holder stopped!It would have been big shock to him. Pickering was good on commentating but David Coleman was the greatest ever commentator! As for Ovett,what an incredible talent!
Walker never ran under 1:44/ 800 metres and he wasn't the former mile record holder at the time, he WAS the world record holder !!!!!!!! Check it out!!!!!!
@@mathematics5573 Prior to this race Walker believed he was the best miler in the world. He may have dropped out to avoid being 20M behind the man who knocked him off his perch so convincingly. I think it's a disgrace that he dropped out otherwise I admire Walker.
I love the debates on these videos - I think putting this race in its proper context i.e. prior to the whole Coe/Ovett saga this was a sensational performance
Of course, you're right! Thanks for correcting me. Still, one of the most memorable commentaries ever. Ron Pickering was one of the best, if not the best athletics commentator of all.
What a superlative performance by the 'big O', on that evening in September 1977. Even if John Walker, the renowned Kiwi athlete, had still been in his vintage [1975] form, I doubt whether he would have been able to live with Ovett. The Brightonian had a very formidable finishing kick at that stage in his career ...... in addition to the high degree of endurance required of a world class 1500 metres runner/miler. It's a pity that the IAAF World Championships weren't held in 1977, eh Steve?!
Ovett's burst with 200 to go here is awesome. 12.0 round the curve (25.1 last 200) has rarely been matched. However, when one looks at it in context, we see that the 3rd lap of the race was a rather pedestrian 59.7, and the two 100m stretches that preceded the last 200 were 14.7 (54.2 last 400) & 14.4 (39.5 last 300). Compare this to Moscow, where the 3rd lap was 54.6 and the last four 100m went 13.5 (52.2), 13.7 (38.7), 12.9 (25.0) & 12.1, and it's not hard to see why Ovett couldn't kick.
Considering, that John Walker was the Olympic champion over this distance in 1976 this is truely remarkable. In 1977 Ovett became the dominating force in the (metric) mile. Wessinghage performed well too. One has to wonder, why Walker quit with 150 meters to go. Okay, he realised, that he was not able to win this race. But he could achieve 6 points for the oceanion team.
Cliff Temple also said it was, in his opinion, the greatest 1500m race. Sadly he passed away a few years ago. Now, Deano I will not allow you to say nobody could have stopped Coe. That's what you lot said prior to the 800m!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Was Mr Ovett already slightly past his best as an athlete in August 1980 - when he was (surpisingly) beaten in third place in the final of the 1500 metres, at the Moscow Olympics? Well, I believe that it is virtually impossible for anyone - with the possible exception of the great man himself - to answer that question with certainty. What I would say is this: Back in Sept. 1977 - when Ovett produced that inspired performance in Dusseldorf - he was not running tired, so to speak.
@TheEctomorph Running Free is only the first part of Coe's biography up to the end of 81. There are 2 further installments which are actually more probing. They are called "Coming Back" (1984) and "Born to Run" (1991, I think), Both were written with David Miller. You might find them on ebay.
The red vested Algerian in this race is the elder brother and coach of Noureddine Morceli in one of his early international races. He was only 19 or 20 and later ran in the Moscow and LA Olympics.
[Continuing on from my previous post about Mr Ovett], I would certainly say that, during the final furlong or so of that famous1500 metres race in Moscow (on 1st August 1980), he APPEARED to be an athlete who was no longer at the peak of his phenomenal powers, physically. However (to coin an old cliche) appearances CAN be deceptive. One has to remember that, at the Moscow Olympics, Ovett had to compete seven races (including heats, semi-finals, etc) within a relatively short period of time.
I'm also impressed with the thought, knowledge and analysis on this page from Deano and others. But here's my two penny's worth. Could Ovett have beaten Coe in the Moscow 1500? Answer is YES! Just as Coe could have beaten Ovett in the 800. They were both awesome and the margin of difference between them in 1980 & 81 was nothing or next to nothing. It would simply come down to who was really 'on their day' or who made a tactical blunder or who had the right mindset.
I agree with what Ovett once said: If the 1500m would have been first, he'd have won that and lost the 800m. Ovett couldn't get up for the second race. Coe couldn't get his mind in gear in the first race.
@@LPCLASSICAL - Yeah, he did. If you're favourite to win a race, and you lose it, you've made a blunder somewhere. He admitted he wasn't in the right mind-set, because he had already won the 800. That may be the case. That's a blunder. My view is that that is his stated excuse. I don't really believe that. I believe his blunder was he handed the tactical advantage to Coe by allowing Coe to lead him throughout the race. So while he was in the position to strike with 120m to go, i.e. he was close enough, he wasn't faster than Coe; he could only ever match him, at best, though not this time. So perhaps he lost the race tactically, earlier in the race by not going faster and getting ahead of Coe.
Totally agree. All the speculations and excuses on here are meaningless when one looks at the facts. Stats don’t lie. Fact 1 - Ovett ran 50.5, 25.0 and 12.7 for the closing 400, 200 and 100m in the Moscow 800 final. He ran both bends in lane 1, possibly 402m in total, which means we could recalculate his closing splits as worth 50.2, 24.8, 12.7 had he run on inside of lane 1 all the way on 2nd lap. Fact 2 - Coe’s closing splits were 50.7, 24.9, 12.6. So his last 100m was faster than Ovett’s. However, Coe ran entire 2nd lap in lane 2 or 3. Running an entire bend on the line between lanes 1 & 2 is equivalent to an extra 3m. Coe was much wider than that over the course of the last 2 bends (straights don’t count unless zig zagging!) He ran at least 7 or 8m extra than required, which is equivalent to 1 sec minimum. Conservative calculations for his closing splits would therefore be - 49.7, 24.4, 12.6. So, despite Ovett winning, Coe’s closing speed was faster than Ovett over the last 400, 200 and 100m. This was visible on the screen, but the magnitude of Coe’s closing speed was hidden by the fact he was running much wider and further. Ovett’s last 400m in the 800m is the fastest in Olympic history for that event, even now, but Coe was closing much faster. No one has ever closed a championship 800m in under 50sec, yet Coe would have done this had he not put himself in such a dire position, having to run round the entire field, mostly on the bends, sometimes having to pass 2 athletes abreast of each other! Fact 3 - Ovett’s last 200m in the 1500m final was 25.3, only 0.3 secs slower than that he produced in the 800m. However, this time he too ran somewhat wide in the last 200m, maybe 1.5m or 0.2secs, making it a very similar finish to the one he produced in the 8. His last 100m in the 1500 was 0.1secs faster than he had run while winning the 800m, 12.6, and he had Coe and Straub in front of him to chase. So in terms of finishing speed, Ovett’s close was as fast, if not faster, than that he produced in winning the 800m. There is no evidence whatsoever that he was below par, couldn’t be bothered, going down with a cold, etc. Fact 4 - Coe’s closing splits in the 1500m were 25.0 and 12.1. He ran marginally wide over the second half of the last bend, possibly 0.2, but then ran 0.5aecs faster than Ovett in the last 100m to win gold. It remains the fastest last 100m in any major championship final to this day. Ovett, as Coleman said in his commentary, was in the striking position, almost in line with Coe as they entered the home straight, yet to have won from that position, he would have needed to run a last 100m of 12.0 to equal Coe and 11.9 to beat him. Something he had never managed to produce in any 1500 race before or after that one. His last 100m in the Moscow 1500 was faster than his last 100m in the Düsseldorf World Cup or when winning the Euro1500 in 78. His last 200m was faster than the 78 European final and just 0.2 slower than his World Cup 77 win. If one adjusts for the extra 1.5m he ran on the last bend in Moscow, then the last 200m are practically identical. The facts prove Coe finished faster than Ovett over the last 100m, 200m and 400m in both the 800 and 1500m finals. He ran a dreadful tactical race in the 8, which was the main reason he lost. Ovett was magnificent and did what was necessary for him to win. Ovett ran a sound tactical race in the 1500m, was better positioned at every point in the race compared to his run in the 8, was on Coe’s shoulder with 100m to go, but wasn’t able to match Coe’s closing speed.
@houghgree2 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about S. Ovett and S. Coe]: The blistering finishing speed which Coe unleashed that day in Moscow - 31 years ago now - was astonishing to behold ...... and probably unprecedented in any race of that distance. On that particular day, Ovett could not live with him, so to speak. However, there is a school of though that the 'big O's' peak years - as a middle-distance runner - were 1977 and '78. From what I remember, Mr Brendan Foster
Ovett's last 200m was somewhere between 24.6 and 25.0 with the preceding 200m roughly 29.6 - 30.0. He was able to do this because the middle 800m was run at 60 secs per lap pace which was easy for him. But 24.6 for that last 200 whilst still easing up well before the line shows just what an incredible turn of speed he really had. His 1977 European Cup 1500m win was even more impressive where he clocked a 51.9 last lap running practically the whole lap in lane 2!
His last 200m was given at time as 25.1, and video analysis concurs. There is a white pole on the infield which shows the 200m mark. He is in line with that at 3:09.4. But if he hadn't eased up in last 50 or so, he was probably capable of running a 24.8, possibly 24.7.
I actually think that seeing Straub in front of him obscured his view of Coe and he probably thought the race was well lost - with no Straub in the picture the race winner might have been the same - but Ovett would have been closer to Coe giving us the race we wanted. Yes I recall the Beyer win - one of the most outrageous results in athletics history. If he had any honour he would send the gold to ovett - just as straub ought to send him the silver (not that ovett would care for it)
I think you exaggerate slightly. He ran the curve (penultimate 100m) in 12.0, which is phenomenal! He didn't step off the gas with 100m to go. He eased up over the last 20m and perhaps if he'd gone all out the last 200m might have been 24.7/24.8. He was never going to sustain the speed he generated round the bend. That was Ovett's trademark; to kick hard at 200m, get a gap and sustain it. In Moscow he couldn't get past Coe at the 200m mark because they were already operating at such a fast pace.
[Continuing on from my previous 'post' about S. Ovett and S. Coe]: as a middle-distance runner. It is also worth mentioning that Coe [in 1980] was under a great deal of pressure and stress going into that race - partly due to the fact that it was a race of great importance and prestige, and partly due to the fact that he had been beaten - well beaten - by his fabled rival from Brighton, in the 800 metres final, just six days earlier.
This is one of the rare moments in track history when we see the crown of world number 1 being handed over directly from incumbent to challenger. Ovett took it from Walker in this race. Walker, No1 75-77. Ovett, number 1 77-80. After three years of dominance, Ovett then lost his crown when Coe outkicked him in the 1980 Olympic final. Here, Walker knows it and yields to this force with his uncharacteristic DNF.
@TheEctomorph Not quite. It was 5 races before the 1500 final. With the final, that made 6 races in 8 days. It was in LA that they had to run 7 races in 9 days.
@martynhanson Nonsense! At the time of the 78 Euro Wessinghage (3:34.77- 1976!) was the only man other than Ovett (3:34.45 pb from 77) to have broken 3:35. The next best was Moorcroft at 3:35.48.In Moscow there were 3 men sub 3:34 (Coe WR holder, Ovett 3:32.09 & Straub 3:33.68). In LA 6 men entered the event with a pb of sub 3:33 (the 3 Brits, Scott, Maree & Deleze) & then there was Abascal-3:33.12, Spivey -3:34.12 & Chesire-3:34.52. That's 9 men faster than anyone Ovett faced in Prague 78.
And Cram was in as good a form as he'd been the year before in Helsinki. He said so himself on the eve of the games. He just expected it to be run in 3:38 not 3:32. The fact Coe beat him so easily underlines how easy Cram had it in 82 & 83 when Coe & Ovett to a large extent, were absent through injury and illness.
However the Moscow final was the 6th race in 8 days, so it wasn't a ONE off. Moreover the pace wasn't steady for 1300m, but started off slow and got progressively faster. Coe's last 800m was 1:48.6 (5.5 secs faster than the 77 World Cup), and the first 200m of the last lap was 27.2 (1.9 faster than the Dusseldorf race). Coe then ran a 12.9 curve, followed by a 12.1 final 100m! Ovett actually closed on the curve with 12.7, but couldn't find an extra gear to match Coe, with 12.6.
Most championship 1500m races were tactical in the same way as Moscow; Montreal, Prague, Helsinki, Stuttgart, etc. In none of those (or any other since) was the last 100m as quick as in Moscow, despite the finishing times in 76 Oly, 83 Worlds, 86 Eur all being slower than Moscow. So it is very relevant. In many of those, the pace didn't hot up til the last lap which meant the guy with the best basic speed usually won. The only fast "true miler" race in that period was LA, and Coe won that too.
[Continuing on from my previous comment about Mr Ovett]: With hindsight, it is perhaps not surprising that the great man was unable, in Moscow, to replicate the scintillating form that he had displayed in Dusseldorf, three years earlier. After all, in the seven day period immediately prior to the Olympic 1500m final (on 1st August 1980) he had had to compete in six races - including the final of the 800 metres, which he won.
[Continuing on from my previous post about Mr Ovett]: It MAY be true that he was marginally past his peak at the time of the Olympic Games in 1980 ... but, as I have argued in my recent 'posts' on this You Tube site, that was not necessarily the case. I would definitely say that, by the summer of 1983, Steve was no longer the athlete that he had been in '77. And yet, to his great credit, he still managed to produce a fantastic time of 3:30.77 for 1500 metres. What a talented athlete he was!
Moreover, Coe was in exactly the same position in term of tiredness. A lot of people think that Ovett did not run that well in the Moscow 1500, but the stats show this was NOT the case. The fact that Straub beat him is the diverting influence. Straub had NEVER ran anything approaching that quality before Moscow and NEVER produced anything approaching that form again. Why? Probably due to the now known GDR state sponsored drug programme.
The difference is that in Moscow, the opposition was far better than it had been in the World Cup or European Champs. Ovett wasn't "not running as well" in Moscow, he was actually running faster! Which basically contradicts all those that say Ovett had an off day in Moscow.
His last 200m was 25.1. The wave may have cost him 2 or 3 tenths, not over a second! All out he may have run 24.7. But then Coe and Cram have also finished a 1500m with a last 200m in under 25.0. The reason he had such an amazing turn of pace in this race is that the previous 100m had been a slow 14.4, the previous 200m 29.1! It's almost unheard of in a major Championship at 1500m for the first 200m on the last lap to be run so slowly. They played right into Ovett's hands.
[Continuing on from my previous post about Mr Ovett], I think that it would be churlish to make a direct comparison between the great man's scintillating performance in Dusseldorf [on 03.09.77] and his relatively lack-lustre performance in Moscow, three years later [on 01.08.80]. When he went into the latter race, he was hampered - if that is the right word - by the fact that he had already competed in six races - at the Olympic Games -within the previous week.
It's late so can't respond in full at moment. Ovett's last 200m on the rails in Moscow 800 was 25.0. Coe's last 200, running most of last bend in lane 2, was 24.9. Coe ran at least 3m further by running wide, so if he'd been able to run on rails like Ovett, it would have been worth more like 24.4/24.5. Coe's fastest last 200m in an international 800 was in the final of the Europa Cup in 1979, where he ran 24.1 in. 1:47 race. It's on UA-cam. Again he ran very wide in lane 2, so intrinsically it was worth around 23.7!! And that's with him easing at the finish line and waving his arms around. Coe also ran a (partially wide) last 200 in European 800 final in 86, 24.8 in a 1:44.5. Ovett's fastest last 200m in a 1500 was 25.1 in the World Cup 77 race in Düsseldorf. Although the previous 200 was a very slow 29.**. I also believe he ran around 24.9/25.0 in the Oslo 1500 in 81, when he tried closing in on the rabbit, Byers, who the field had let get too far away. That time was reported at time, although can't be corroborated with video analysis, as Ovett can't be seen with 200 to go. It was in a 3:39 I believe. Coe's last 200 in Moscow 1500 was also 25.0 in a 3:38.4. His last 200 in LA was 25.7, in a much faster 3:32:53. I'm sure both could have run the last 200m in under 25 in a 1500m if it was the right kind of race.
I agree with most of what you have written, especially concerning Farah. Although Coe's last 200m in Moscow was only on paper 0.1 faster than Ovett's, in real terms of course he was much faster. By running the entire last bend in lane 2, as opposed to Ovett, who was on the inside of lane 1, Coe ran a conservative ( pardon the pun!) 3m extra. That's equivalent to 0.5 secs. That means that had the rest of the field miraculously disappeared with 200m to go, allowing Coe to run on the rails like Ovett, he would have been at least equal with him at the finish. It was intrinsically worth 24.4. I cannot think of any other championship 800 that has had someone finish as quick. What you also have to remember, is that Coe was even wider on the curve after the bell. There he ran about 4m extra. Meaning that on the last lap, which he covered in 50.7 (compared to Ovett's incredible 50.5, mainly on the rails- and still the fastest 2nd lap in Olympic 800 history!) he actually ran c. 407m. That is equivalent to 49.7/49.8 for 400m. Sub 50 seconds on the 2nd lap of an international 800m is unheard of. Coe ran all 3 bends wide in that final, running approx 10 or 11m extra. In essence he had run 811m in 1:45.85, which is worth around 1:44.4/1:44.5 for 800m. He ran the equivalent to a 49.8 last 400 and a 24.4 last 200m. So in terms of actual speeds reached, you are absolutely correct. No one before or since has closed so fast in such a fast (1:45 or faster) 800m than Coe did in Miscow. There was nothing wrong with his speed, and he would have won relatively easily had he not run considerably further than anyone else in the field. Ovett ran about an extra 3m, mainly on the first bend, in total over the course of the race. But even Coe cannot give someone like Ovett an 8m head start in an Olympic final.
I agree with all you say. Mo Farah is very over hyped, and doesn't deserve it. Ovett, Coe, Thompson, Carl Lewis, Gebresalassie, Bekele, Ed Moses, Jan Zaleznie, Sergie Bubka, Torvill and Dean etc etc, all won Olympic gold by the bucket full, but they also all set World Records, but the bucket full. Mo has no World records.
@@francishooton3933 Mo cant be expected to break absurdly fast crooked world records. He won 2 back to back 5 and 10K at 2 olympics. he's Britain's greatest olympic track athlete at any rate if not the greatest overall.
Yes, he did say that. The difference being that Coe gave himself little chance of beating Cram in the 86 1500m, due to being too far behind him and boxed at the bell. Coe ran the penultimate bend in lane 2, and had he just run the same distance as Cram, would have covered the last lap about 0.4 faster than Cram. With Ovett, he was in the perfect position at the bell and on Coe's shoulder with 100m to go. Coe covered the last 100m in 12.1. Ovett was never going to beat that.
@houghgree2 Whilst I have made it clear in previous comments that I have posted (on this 'You Tube' board) that I consider Steve Ovett to have been a genuinely great athlete in his prime, I have never said that he was superior to Sebastian Coe. During the 1500 metres Olympic final - which took place in Moscow on 1st August, 1980 - Mr [now Lord] Coe displayed phenomenal speed in the final 100 metres of the race. In fact, I believe that he covered the last 100 metres in 12.1 secs.
@TheEctomorph I disagree. The 77 World Cup was a one off race against lesser (relative) opponents. The way the race played out was tailor made for Ovett's strengths, which were, a relative consistent pace with a very fast last 200m. His last 800m in Dusseldorf was a relatively sedate (for 3:34.4 race) 1:54.2. The penultimate 200m from the bell was also pretty slow at 29.1. It was because of this that he had the energy to then run a 12.0 100m curve from 200m & finish with a 13.1 in the straight.
The difference between the 2 races is that in 77 Ovett ran the last 100m in 13.1 while in Moscow he ran it in 12.8. But more importantly the last 800 in Moscow was 1:48 pace compared to 1:54 pace in 77. He strained because he had nothing left.
@deano27671 What can I say - but thank you for your insightful and perceptive comments about the Ovett/Coe rivalry? Having read your comments, I am in no doubt that you are more knowledgeable about those two great athletes - and about middle-distance running generally - than my good self. Are you, by any chance, that chap who wrote a book called: "The Perfect Distance: Ovett and Coe - The Middle Distance Rivalry"?
@mahtivaari72 He already is one of the all time great milers courtesy of 2 x 1500 WRs (plus a sort of = it), 2 x 1 Mile WRs and 2 golds in the 1500m World cups of 77 and 81. In my mind both are equivalent to being world champion in an era just before the World Champs existed. Not to mention of course his Olympic 800 gold. The important thing to be considered an all time great is to win an individual Olympic gold, the exact event is of secondary importance.
There wasn't anybody close to a peak Ovett. However his unbeaten record had to be defended in Moscow and that took too much out of him. Put too much in to the heats.
SirPeter6464 I don’t think that was the case at all. Someone of Ovett’s ability should have no difficulty running a 3:36.8 heat after 3 days rest following the 800 final! He then had a relatively easy 3:43.1 semi. Coe’s corresponding races were 3:40.1 and 3:39.3, so accumulatively Coe’s 2 heats were marginally faster. Coe also had to run a 3:35.8 sf the day before his 84 Olympic win, and it didn’t seem to affect his ability in the final too much. The difference between this race (77 World Cup) and the Moscow final is that here the penultimate lap was slow and even the penultimate 200m was over 29 secs. In Moscow Straub went from a long way from home, something that Ovett wasn’t used to, ran a 54 secs 3rd lap and a 27 flat penultimate 200m. Ovett just couldn’t change pace quite as explosively in Moscow as he had in the World Cup, when the pace only heated up with 200m to go.
@@deano27671 He had to win to keep his streak going. He didn't needed to win to qualify. Can't have helped can it. Run to another set of rules than the actual winner?
@houghgree2 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about S. Ovett and S. Coe]: Mr Brendan Foster (who knows a thing or two about athletics) was quoted in Pat Butcher's book "The Perfect Distance: Ovett and Coe", as saying that he believed Ovett's prime years, athletically speaking, were '77 and '78. My own view is that I am uncertain as to whether or Ovett was past his prime as a middle-distance runner by the time of the 1980 Olympics. What I would say with conviction is this:
The course of this race played into the hands of Ovett's main strength; namely his explosive kick with 200m to go. The pace just prior to that point was v. slow (29 secs for the previous 200m). In Moscow it had been 27.0. You can't really compare the 2 races, as they were very different in terms of pace efficiency.
[Continuing on from my previous 'post' about S. Ovett and S. Coe]: Mr Ovett's burst of speed - over the final furlong [200m] of that 1500 metres race in Dusseldorf, West Germany, on 3rd September 1977 - was comparable (if not superior) to Coe's finishing speed in the Olympic final, three years later. I believe that, in '77, Mr Ovett covered the final 200 metres in 24.7 secs (hand-timed), whereas Mr Coe took 24.8 secs to cover the last 200 metres of the 1500 metres race in Moscow.
When I was kid I idolised Ovett. For me he made athletics cool. Think Usain Bolt. I remember a match against the DDR, I think, when he started celebrating and waving to the crowd with about 100m to go and the East Germans chasing hard..
Fantastic race to watch. Does anyone know why John Walker pulled up? He is a tough competitor and there must have been a good reason. He looked to be in a bit of pain and struggled during the 3rd lap. Clearly he became boxed in down the back straight and Ovett tactically judged his race to perfection.
@bootymanager [continuing on from my previous 'post' about Mr John Rodda.] autobiography, "Ovett", which was originally published in October 1984. You may well have read the book to which I refer. Let me take this opportunity to wish you a Happy New Year.
@FullMontyUK It was June 78 at Crystal Palace. It was a very slow 1500m (3:53.8!!) and Ovett won by 0.28 with a 24.8 last 200m. You're absolutely right about Straub's tactics though. Ovett's 200m kick was rendered impotent if someone went early enough. Cram did a similar thing to him at the Palace in 83, but Ovett wasn't quite as good still by then. Even so, Straub's last 100m in Moscow was c. 12.6, which is faster than Ovett's last 100m in Dusseldorf! Straub was never able to do that.
@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about the Coe/Ovett rivalry]: by the late John Rodda of The Guardian newspaper. I have also read "Running Free" - a 1980 biography of Mr Coe - which, I believe, was written in part by Mr David Millar, and in part by the great middle-distance runner himself. It is about time that Lord Coe and Mr Ovett started working on new, updated autobiographies ... in my humble opinion, at any rate!
In 1986 European championships Coe knew what Ovett meant about his quote in 1980,as he would have beaten Cram in the 1500 if he hadn't have won the 800 first,I thought they were both fantastic great era of middle distance running.
I think Ovett's kick here is phenomenal. But remember his last 200m of 25.1 was off a last lap of only 54.4 and a last 800m of 1:54! Coe's last 200m in Moscow was faster (25.0) off a much faster last 400 (52.2) and 800m, 1:48.5. I think people sometime see what Ovett did to the opposition in this one race and then mistakenly think he run below par when he didn't do the same in other races. Ovett was just as good in Moscow as he was here or in Prague, if not better.
Boy did Steve Ovett have a fantastic kick at the end of a 1500 metres back then. I actually think 1977-1980 were his golden years. He was majestic.
He once ran 21.7 for 200m.So no one could live with him.
@@martinhill9261amazing, he had such a range of distances and all done as an amateur with very limited help.
I agree.. he was still good after his injury but 77 to 81 he was better than Coe.. after that Coe and cram were the men.. ovett was my favourite
Brings tears to my eyes looking back at this magical era. Steve Ovett was so exciting to watch more so than Coe.
Ran against him twice at 1500m............ just watched his vest get smaller with 300m to go........ glorious years
One man's blazing speed has torn this field asunder, I love that line. Steve Ovett, legend.
I'm just reading Ovett's biography, and it says, after his Europa Cup win on 13th August 1977, which I mentioned in my previous post a short time ago, Ovett was scheduled to next race against Walker in the Highland Games, but he missed his flight, so instead he decided to run a few miles in the Dartford Half Marathon! This took place on 20th August, 1977. He had intended to drop out part way through, but felt good, and went on to win the race in 65 minutes, 38 seconds! Then on 29th August, he won the 800m at Crystal Palace, and then this race, the World Cup, took place on 3rd of September, just two weeks after the half marathon. Even more crazy, is that Walker and Wessinghage knew Ovett ran the half marathon and so that is why you see Wessinghage lead out in a fast 56.48 and then Walker take up the pace. They had teamed up to try and run the sting out of Ovett! The book, Simon Turnbull's "Steve Ovett - Portrait Of An Athlete", 1982, page 65, also states Steve's last 100m here was 11.8 seconds, and when you see him waving, he says he was waving to his parents! A lot of people get hung up and say he was arrogant, but remember, he was just a 21 year old kid at the time!
Fascinating reading!
It was his penultimate 100m that was reported at the time as 11.8 by his coach, Harry Wilson, who hand timed it from the infield. When looking at it on video it was more like 12.0, still incredible!
His last 100m was 13.1, but he waved and let up a bit in the last 30m. If he'd pushed all the way to the finish he could probably have run 24.8 for last 200m
He was tremendous- not arrogant, just having fun, like Muhammad Ali, who was more boastful of course. Coe always struck me as colder and more arrogant. I'll be interested to read his biography- who wrote it?
Much preferred Ovett over Coe. Not even close.
Ovett actually beat Barry Watson ar Dartford, Barry was British Marsthon Champion and had run for Britain in the previous years Olympics. I asked Barry recently how he felt about being remembered for that race. His reply was he was a big Ovett fan.
In this kind of form, what a shame he didn't run against Juantorena in the 800m, then again, this was a good field too... Coe should have turned up a bit earlier & he could have featured in the 800m.
Thanks so much for posting - I really enjoyed seeing this race again! Steve Ovett raising the curtain on the 'golden decade' of British middle distance running (soon to be joined by Messrs Coe, Moorcroft, Cram, Elliott, McKean and the often forgotten Cook, Robson, Williamson etc) I salute all these guys...for the pleasure and inspiration they provided. And OMG, could we do with them now!!!
I remember Williamson,always seem to be tripped up by someone
It is like a lottery win. Once in a lifetime is pretty lucky. Just saw something amazing every time you turned on the TV.
you prolly dont care but does any of you know a method to log back into an instagram account..?
I was dumb lost my login password. I love any help you can offer me
@Keanu Allan instablaster ;)
Between 1977 and 1990 Britain won 12 gold medals at 1500m across the Olympics, World Cup, World Championship, European Championship & Commonwealth Games. These were shared between Coe, Ovett, Cram, Moorcroft & Elliot. You will never again get 5 milers like that at the same time in these islands. Rejoice that you were alive at the time.
1977 World Cup - Ovett, 1978 Commonwealth Games - Moorcroft, 1978 European Championship - Ovett, 1980 Olympics - Coe, 1981 World Cup - Ovett, 1982 European Championship - Cram, 1982 Commonwealth Games - Cram, 1983 World Championship - Cram, 1984 Olympics - Coe, 1986 Commonwealth Games - Cram, 1986 European Championship - Cram, 1990 Commonwealth Games - Elliot.
Seems like Ovett just toyed with the field until it was time to make his move......Brilliant...
It looked as though he was just jogging along until he made his move. He was so comfortable he probably could have gone earlier and threatened the world record.
Yes, what a pity Montreal wasn't a year later.
The guy was by himself back then. Made a world class field look like mugs. Just a 400m runner being carried around on a moped until popping off for the last 200m.
If you could somehow have a level playing field and include all the mile/1500 greats in history no one beats peak Steve Ovett in a single race,he could stay with them all and outkick anyone.
What a marvellous athletic perfomance by Mr Ovett, when he was young and in his prime. (That race took place on 3rd September, 1977, I believe - when he was 21 years of age.) It is a pity that he was not able to replicate that scintillating form in the Olympic 1500 metres final in Moscow, three years later. Had he been able to do so, he would have given Sebastian Coe a good run for his money - and may even have beaten him.
Mr Ovett, in his prime, was unquestionably an awesome athlete.
I never tire of watching this race :-)
Ovett simply superb.
True maverick. What an absolute legend 👍🏼
Thanks for sharing I remember the race. It means a lot.
L' AGE D' OR,
Du Demi-fond,
De la Sueur,
De la Volonté,
RESPECT TOTAL
11.9 on the bend amazing 🤩
Ovett was capable of a much faster 1500m and was never pushed to his potential. I think a sub 3:28 was achievable by him
Ooooooooooh most definitely,,,,on this particular night ovett had sub 3:30 in those legs,, fully recovered from the darford half marathon,,,he now had the strength of a half marathoner/5000,m (13:25/) 400m 47,5 (1974!!!!!!!!!) OVETT COULD HAVE RUN 3:28/3:29 THAT NIGHT,,,, CAN YOU IMAGINE IT? WELL,, When Dave moorcroft did what he did in Oslo in 1982 nobody saw that one coming did THEY,,??? Not only SMASHING HENRY RONO,S WORLD RECORD BY 6 SECONDS BUT NEARLY BECOMING THE FIRST TO ATTAIN DUB 13:00 FOR 5000 METRES!!!!!!!!! Ovett in finishing like this means he had another ,,,,,4/5 seconds in him,,, WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAT,??? 11'8 for the penultimate 💯,m !!!!!!!!!! THAT SAYS IT ALL AND I STILL BELIEVE IN THE MOSCOW 800 M FINAL WHEN OVETT RAN ,50'6 FINAL 400M(STILL THE FASTEST LAST LAP IN AN OLYMPICS AFTER 42 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!) STEVE WAS CAPABLE OF SMASHING HIS 1978 BEST OF 1:44'09 BECAUSE HIS 1978 TIME WAS FULLY DUE FOR RENDITION!!!!!!!!!
@@simonedwards5564I fully agree he was a 3:27/28 1500 guy. Such a shame he smashed his knee in and got sick in LA. Totally dominant here, a Coe wouldn’t have lived with him here
What a talent. Waving to the crowd as he runs arguably the fastest final 200m split of all time...relaxing at the end. Effortless.
Like Jim Ryun I don't think we saw the limit of Ovett's ability. If he could run 3:30.77 in 1983 when he was past his best he should have been able to run 3:29 in about 1981. I think after Moscow he lost his desire and the 'rail' injury knocked something out of him. Still Britain's greatest runner IMHO.
Great performance by Ovett. For me there was something almost magical about that time in the late 70s and early 80s when the rivalry between Coe, Ovett and Cram developed that made you proud to be British without any hint of supposed jingoism or sense of breast beating superiority. Just pride in dedicated athletes doing their best. Also great to see New Zealander John Walker, who was another legend of the track, who was not at his best in this race but always seemed to be there or thereabouts at a races end. Great times.
Nobody on planet earth that night would have / could have beaten Ovett. Unless they tripped the man up. That performance was shockingly good.
Brilliant brilliant Ovett!
Thank you so much for posting this race - I had been missing it!
When Ovett was in top form, such as in this race, he could beat anyone from any era. He ran 11.8 for the penultimate 100m, then coasted in the final 100. HIs final 200 was 25.1, and he wasn't even trying in the final 100m. Incredible runner.
This was vintage Ovett at a time when he could beat anyone in the world. This race was also the start of the golden era of middle distance running which would go on to 1986.
great quality video, thank you. that final 200 was amazing, I love it when big john walker steps off the track- priceless
Was he injured or realized he had lost? Don't remember this race remember the duels with Coe
AWESOME OVETT 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Another video from the greatest era of British athletics fantastic 😊😊
Walker's "no mas"...
Amazing last 250m, and amazing that in the next few years the world record would drop by several seconds thanks to Ovett, Coe and then Cram. In 1977, in this race Ovett ran a British record of over 3:34!
A sub 55 for the last lap by Ovett. This includes running about 180m really hard, coasting the last 60-80m, and a fairly decent speed for the first 160-180 m. What would his time have been, if he tried to run most or all of the last lap hard?
"...and there's one man's blazing speed that has torn this field asunder!" What a line from the legendary David Coleman! I have never forgotten this commentary. This was Ovett at his very best.
gakaface I think this was Ron Pickering,not David Coleman.
D@@galtongabriel1172 Definitely Ron Pickering
Don't you know who he is? He's Ronnie Pickering!
Ovett did actually run the 1500m in Montreal but was knocked out in the semis. You have to remember though that he was only 20.
Ovetts acceleration here was phenomenal! Quite honestly Walker ,who in the blink of an eye,was suddenly 25m behind ,so unsurpisngly the 1-43 half miler former mile record holder stopped!It would have been big shock to him. Pickering was good on commentating but David Coleman was the greatest ever commentator! As for Ovett,what an incredible talent!
Walker never ran under 1:44/ 800 metres and he wasn't the former mile record holder at the time, he WAS the world record holder !!!!!!!! Check it out!!!!!!
walker had a very bad habit of dropping out. you should always finish races.
@@mathematics5573 Prior to this race Walker believed he was the best miler in the world. He may have dropped out to avoid being 20M behind the man who knocked him off his perch so convincingly. I think it's a disgrace that he dropped out otherwise I admire Walker.
@@LPCLASSICAL glad we agree.
@@LPCLASSICAL Do you now that Ovett still holds a world record?
My favourite athlete.
I love the debates on these videos - I think putting this race in its proper context i.e. prior to the whole Coe/Ovett saga this was a sensational performance
Poetry in motion 😍
Of course, you're right! Thanks for correcting me. Still, one of the most memorable commentaries ever. Ron Pickering was one of the best, if not the best athletics commentator of all.
bollocks
‘Full of running” 😃
What a superlative performance by the 'big O', on that evening in September 1977. Even if John Walker, the renowned Kiwi athlete, had still been in his vintage [1975] form, I doubt whether he would have been able to live with Ovett. The Brightonian had a very formidable finishing kick at that stage in his career ...... in addition to the high degree of endurance required of a world class 1500 metres runner/miler.
It's a pity that the IAAF World Championships weren't held in 1977, eh Steve?!
The picture quality of this race blows my mind.
Ovett's burst with 200 to go here is awesome. 12.0 round the curve (25.1 last 200) has rarely been matched. However, when one looks at it in context, we see that the 3rd lap of the race was a rather pedestrian 59.7, and the two 100m stretches that preceded the last 200 were 14.7 (54.2 last 400) & 14.4 (39.5 last 300). Compare this to Moscow, where the 3rd lap was 54.6 and the last four 100m went 13.5 (52.2), 13.7 (38.7), 12.9 (25.0) & 12.1, and it's not hard to see why Ovett couldn't kick.
What a finishing kick! All of a sudden, Ovett opened up a huge gap from the rest of the field!
Superb quality for a 32 year old race!!
Considering, that John Walker was the Olympic champion over this distance in 1976 this is truely remarkable. In 1977 Ovett became the dominating force in the (metric) mile. Wessinghage performed well too. One has to wonder, why Walker quit with 150 meters to go. Okay, he realised, that he was not able to win this race. But he could achieve 6 points for the oceanion team.
what a devastating finishing kick!!!!!
Goat 🐐
I have noticed on the data, Ovett is the only 1500m runner since the 1940s, to set 3 world records at 1500m.
Cliff Temple also said it was, in his opinion, the greatest 1500m race. Sadly he passed away a few years ago. Now, Deano I will not allow you to say nobody could have stopped Coe. That's what you lot said prior to the 800m!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He dusted that field.
Was Mr Ovett already slightly past his best as an athlete in August 1980 - when he was (surpisingly) beaten in third place in the final of the 1500 metres, at the Moscow Olympics? Well, I believe that it is virtually impossible for anyone - with the possible exception of the great man himself - to answer that question with certainty.
What I would say is this: Back in Sept. 1977 - when Ovett produced that inspired performance in Dusseldorf - he was not running tired, so to speak.
@TheEctomorph Running Free is only the first part of Coe's biography up to the end of 81. There are 2 further installments which are actually more probing. They are called "Coming Back" (1984) and "Born to Run" (1991, I think), Both were written with David Miller. You might find them on ebay.
The red vested Algerian in this race is the elder brother and coach of Noureddine Morceli in one of his early international races. He was only 19 or 20 and later ran in the Moscow and LA Olympics.
[Continuing on from my previous post about Mr Ovett], I would certainly say that, during the final furlong or so of that famous1500 metres race in Moscow (on 1st August 1980), he APPEARED to be an athlete who was no longer at the peak of his phenomenal powers, physically.
However (to coin an old cliche) appearances CAN be deceptive. One has to remember that, at the Moscow Olympics, Ovett had to compete seven races (including heats, semi-finals, etc) within a relatively short period of time.
I'm also impressed with the thought, knowledge and analysis on this page from Deano and others. But here's my two penny's worth. Could Ovett have beaten Coe in the Moscow 1500? Answer is YES! Just as Coe could have beaten Ovett in the 800. They were both awesome and the margin of difference between them in 1980 & 81 was nothing or next to nothing. It would simply come down to who was really 'on their day' or who made a tactical blunder or who had the right mindset.
I agree with what Ovett once said: If the 1500m would have been first, he'd have won that and lost the 800m. Ovett couldn't get up for the second race. Coe couldn't get his mind in gear in the first race.
Cram said that he expected to see Ovett turn up very confident at the 1500m, but he wasn't. He seemed to be preoccupied with Coe.
@@gakaface Ovett was on Coe's shoulder going into the last bend - he just couldn't respond to Coe's strike for home. He made no blunder in the final.
@@LPCLASSICAL - Yeah, he did. If you're favourite to win a race, and you lose it, you've made a blunder somewhere. He admitted he wasn't in the right mind-set, because he had already won the 800. That may be the case. That's a blunder. My view is that that is his stated excuse. I don't really believe that. I believe his blunder was he handed the tactical advantage to Coe by allowing Coe to lead him throughout the race. So while he was in the position to strike with 120m to go, i.e. he was close enough, he wasn't faster than Coe; he could only ever match him, at best, though not this time. So perhaps he lost the race tactically, earlier in the race by not going faster and getting ahead of Coe.
Totally agree. All the speculations and excuses on here are meaningless when one looks at the facts. Stats don’t lie.
Fact 1 - Ovett ran 50.5, 25.0 and 12.7 for the closing 400, 200 and 100m in the Moscow 800 final. He ran both bends in lane 1, possibly 402m in total, which means we could recalculate his closing splits as worth 50.2, 24.8, 12.7 had he run on inside of lane 1 all the way on 2nd lap.
Fact 2 - Coe’s closing splits were 50.7, 24.9, 12.6. So his last 100m was faster than Ovett’s.
However, Coe ran entire 2nd lap in lane 2 or 3. Running an entire bend on the line between lanes 1 & 2 is equivalent to an extra 3m. Coe was much wider than that over the course of the last 2 bends (straights don’t count unless zig zagging!) He ran at least 7 or 8m extra than required, which is equivalent to 1 sec minimum.
Conservative calculations for his closing splits would therefore be - 49.7, 24.4, 12.6.
So, despite Ovett winning, Coe’s closing speed was faster than Ovett over the last 400, 200 and 100m. This was visible on the screen, but the magnitude of Coe’s closing speed was hidden by the fact he was running much wider and further.
Ovett’s last 400m in the 800m is the fastest in Olympic history for that event, even now, but Coe was closing much faster. No one has ever closed a championship 800m in under 50sec, yet Coe would have done this had he not put himself in such a dire position, having to run round the entire field, mostly on the bends, sometimes having to pass 2 athletes abreast of each other!
Fact 3 - Ovett’s last 200m in the 1500m final was 25.3, only 0.3 secs slower than that he produced in the 800m. However, this time he too ran somewhat wide in the last 200m, maybe 1.5m or 0.2secs, making it a very similar finish to the one he produced in the 8. His last 100m in the 1500 was 0.1secs faster than he had run while winning the 800m, 12.6, and he had Coe and Straub in front of him to chase. So in terms of finishing speed, Ovett’s close was as fast, if not faster, than that he produced in winning the 800m. There is no evidence whatsoever that he was below par, couldn’t be bothered, going down with a cold, etc.
Fact 4 - Coe’s closing splits in the 1500m were 25.0 and 12.1. He ran marginally wide over the second half of the last bend, possibly 0.2, but then ran 0.5aecs faster than Ovett in the last 100m to win gold. It remains the fastest last 100m in any major championship final to this day. Ovett, as Coleman said in his commentary, was in the striking position, almost in line with Coe as they entered the home straight, yet to have won from that position, he would have needed to run a last 100m of 12.0 to equal Coe and 11.9 to beat him. Something he had never managed to produce in any 1500 race before or after that one. His last 100m in the Moscow 1500 was faster than his last 100m in the Düsseldorf World Cup or when winning the Euro1500 in 78. His last 200m was faster than the 78 European final and just 0.2 slower than his World Cup 77 win. If one adjusts for the extra 1.5m he ran on the last bend in Moscow, then the last 200m are practically identical.
The facts prove Coe finished faster than Ovett over the last 100m, 200m and 400m in both the 800 and 1500m finals. He ran a dreadful tactical race in the 8, which was the main reason he lost. Ovett was magnificent and did what was necessary for him to win.
Ovett ran a sound tactical race in the 1500m, was better positioned at every point in the race compared to his run in the 8, was on Coe’s shoulder with 100m to go, but wasn’t able to match Coe’s closing speed.
@houghgree2 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about S. Ovett and S. Coe]: The blistering finishing speed which Coe unleashed that day in Moscow - 31 years ago now - was astonishing to behold ...... and probably unprecedented in any race of that distance. On that particular day, Ovett could not live with him, so to speak.
However, there is a school of though that the 'big O's' peak years - as a middle-distance runner - were 1977 and '78. From what I remember, Mr Brendan Foster
what a kick!
Ovett's last 200m was somewhere between 24.6 and 25.0 with the preceding 200m roughly 29.6 - 30.0. He was able to do this because the middle 800m was run at 60 secs per lap pace which was easy for him. But 24.6 for that last 200 whilst still easing up well before the line shows just what an incredible turn of speed he really had. His 1977 European Cup 1500m win was even more impressive where he clocked a 51.9 last lap running practically the whole lap in lane 2!
His last 200m was given at time as 25.1, and video analysis concurs. There is a white pole on the infield which shows the 200m mark. He is in line with that at 3:09.4.
But if he hadn't eased up in last 50 or so, he was probably capable of running a 24.8, possibly 24.7.
He had 200 PB of 21.7,which is amazing for a middle distance runner.When he kicked that was it.
I actually think that seeing Straub in front of him obscured his view of Coe and he probably thought the race was well lost - with no Straub in the picture the race winner might have been the same - but Ovett would have been closer to Coe giving us the race we wanted. Yes I recall the Beyer win - one of the most outrageous results in athletics history. If he had any honour he would send the gold to ovett - just as straub ought to send him the silver (not that ovett would care for it)
I think you exaggerate slightly. He ran the curve (penultimate 100m) in 12.0, which is phenomenal! He didn't step off the gas with 100m to go. He eased up over the last 20m and perhaps if he'd gone all out the last 200m might have been 24.7/24.8. He was never going to sustain the speed he generated round the bend. That was Ovett's trademark; to kick hard at 200m, get a gap and sustain it. In Moscow he couldn't get past Coe at the 200m mark because they were already operating at such a fast pace.
[Continuing on from my previous 'post' about S. Ovett and S. Coe]: as a middle-distance runner.
It is also worth mentioning that Coe [in 1980] was under a great deal of pressure and stress going into that race - partly due to the fact that it was a race of great importance and prestige, and partly due to the fact that he had been beaten - well beaten - by his fabled rival from Brighton, in the 800 metres final, just six days earlier.
This is one of the rare moments in track history when we see the crown of world number 1 being handed over directly from incumbent to challenger. Ovett took it from Walker in this race. Walker, No1 75-77. Ovett, number 1 77-80. After three years of dominance, Ovett then lost his crown when Coe outkicked him in the 1980 Olympic final. Here, Walker knows it and yields to this force with his uncharacteristic DNF.
Steve Ovett where are you now, still in Australia?
@@bfc3057 there is some pictures and a story if you do a Google.
@TheEctomorph Not quite. It was 5 races before the 1500 final. With the final, that made 6 races in 8 days. It was in LA that they had to run 7 races in 9 days.
@martynhanson Nonsense! At the time of the 78 Euro Wessinghage (3:34.77- 1976!) was the only man other than Ovett (3:34.45 pb from 77) to have broken 3:35. The next best was Moorcroft at 3:35.48.In Moscow there were 3 men sub 3:34 (Coe WR holder, Ovett 3:32.09 & Straub 3:33.68). In LA 6 men entered the event with a pb of sub 3:33 (the 3 Brits, Scott, Maree & Deleze) & then there was Abascal-3:33.12, Spivey -3:34.12 & Chesire-3:34.52. That's 9 men faster than anyone Ovett faced in Prague 78.
Morceli 4th, who was older brother or N Morceli, future world record holder and olympic champion.
No runner lost to British trio of Ovett, Coe and Cram more times than John Walker.
And Cram was in as good a form as he'd been the year before in Helsinki. He said so himself on the eve of the games. He just expected it to be run in 3:38 not 3:32. The fact Coe beat him so easily underlines how easy Cram had it in 82 & 83 when Coe & Ovett to a large extent, were absent through injury and illness.
However the Moscow final was the 6th race in 8 days, so it wasn't a ONE off. Moreover the pace wasn't steady for 1300m, but started off slow and got progressively faster. Coe's last 800m was 1:48.6 (5.5 secs faster than the 77 World Cup), and the first 200m of the last lap was 27.2 (1.9 faster than the Dusseldorf race). Coe then ran a 12.9 curve, followed by a 12.1 final 100m! Ovett actually closed on the curve with 12.7, but couldn't find an extra gear to match Coe, with 12.6.
Most championship 1500m races were tactical in the same way as Moscow; Montreal, Prague, Helsinki, Stuttgart, etc. In none of those (or any other since) was the last 100m as quick as in Moscow, despite the finishing times in 76 Oly, 83 Worlds, 86 Eur all being slower than Moscow. So it is very relevant. In many of those, the pace didn't hot up til the last lap which meant the guy with the best basic speed usually won. The only fast "true miler" race in that period was LA, and Coe won that too.
If Steve had concentrated on records as much as he did about racing, I shudder to think how many more world records he would have broken.
[Continuing on from my previous comment about Mr Ovett]: With hindsight, it is perhaps not surprising that the great man was unable, in Moscow, to replicate the scintillating form that he had displayed in Dusseldorf, three years earlier. After all, in the seven day period immediately prior to the Olympic 1500m final (on 1st August 1980) he had had to compete in six races - including the final of the 800 metres, which he won.
if only olympics were 77 or 78 steve would have had another olympic gold. 78 in prague he was also unbeatable.
great athlete tactically aware covered every move and his kick was devastating always preferred him to Coe although Coe was brilliant.
[Continuing on from my previous post about Mr Ovett]: It MAY be true that he was marginally past his peak at the time of the Olympic Games in 1980 ... but, as I have argued in my recent 'posts' on this You Tube site, that was not necessarily the case.
I would definitely say that, by the summer of 1983, Steve was no longer the athlete that he had been in '77. And yet, to his great credit, he still managed to produce a fantastic time of 3:30.77 for 1500 metres. What a talented athlete he was!
Moreover, Coe was in exactly the same position in term of tiredness.
A lot of people think that Ovett did not run that well in the Moscow 1500, but the stats show this was NOT the case. The fact that Straub beat him is the diverting influence. Straub had NEVER ran anything approaching that quality before Moscow and NEVER produced anything approaching that form again. Why? Probably due to the now known GDR state sponsored drug programme.
The difference is that in Moscow, the opposition was far better than it had been in the World Cup or European Champs. Ovett wasn't "not running as well" in Moscow, he was actually running faster! Which basically contradicts all those that say Ovett had an off day in Moscow.
John Walker at the end is hilarious. He's like "WTF just happened?!"
His last 200m was 25.1. The wave may have cost him 2 or 3 tenths, not over a second! All out he may have run 24.7. But then Coe and Cram have also finished a 1500m with a last 200m in under 25.0. The reason he had such an amazing turn of pace in this race is that the previous 100m had been a slow 14.4, the previous 200m 29.1! It's almost unheard of in a major Championship at 1500m for the first 200m on the last lap to be run so slowly. They played right into Ovett's hands.
anyone got the footage of Ovett training at merthy maw sand dunes ???
[Continuing on from my previous post about Mr Ovett], I think that it would be churlish to make a direct comparison between the great man's scintillating performance in Dusseldorf [on 03.09.77] and his relatively lack-lustre performance in Moscow, three years later [on 01.08.80].
When he went into the latter race, he was hampered - if that is the right word - by the fact that he had already competed in six races - at the Olympic Games -within the previous week.
It's late so can't respond in full at moment.
Ovett's last 200m on the rails in Moscow 800 was 25.0. Coe's last 200, running most of last bend in lane 2, was 24.9. Coe ran at least 3m further by running wide, so if he'd been able to run on rails like Ovett, it would have been worth more like 24.4/24.5.
Coe's fastest last 200m in an international 800 was in the final of the Europa Cup in 1979, where he ran 24.1 in. 1:47 race. It's on UA-cam. Again he ran very wide in lane 2, so intrinsically it was worth around 23.7!! And that's with him easing at the finish line and waving his arms around.
Coe also ran a (partially wide) last 200 in European 800 final in 86, 24.8 in a 1:44.5.
Ovett's fastest last 200m in a 1500 was 25.1 in the World Cup 77 race in Düsseldorf. Although the previous 200 was a very slow 29.**.
I also believe he ran around 24.9/25.0 in the Oslo 1500 in 81, when he tried closing in on the rabbit, Byers, who the field had let get too far away. That time was reported at time, although can't be corroborated with video analysis, as Ovett can't be seen with 200 to go. It was in a 3:39 I believe.
Coe's last 200 in Moscow 1500 was also 25.0 in a 3:38.4.
His last 200 in LA was 25.7, in a much faster 3:32:53.
I'm sure both could have run the last 200m in under 25 in a 1500m if it was the right kind of race.
I agree with most of what you have written, especially concerning Farah.
Although Coe's last 200m in Moscow was only on paper 0.1 faster than Ovett's, in real terms of course he was much faster. By running the entire last bend in lane 2, as opposed to Ovett, who was on the inside of lane 1, Coe ran a conservative ( pardon the pun!) 3m extra. That's equivalent to 0.5 secs. That means that had the rest of the field miraculously disappeared with 200m to go, allowing Coe to run on the rails like Ovett, he would have been at least equal with him at the finish. It was intrinsically worth 24.4. I cannot think of any other championship 800 that has had someone finish as quick. What you also have to remember, is that Coe was even wider on the curve after the bell. There he ran about 4m extra. Meaning that on the last lap, which he covered in 50.7 (compared to Ovett's incredible 50.5, mainly on the rails- and still the fastest 2nd lap in Olympic 800 history!) he actually ran c. 407m. That is equivalent to 49.7/49.8 for 400m. Sub 50 seconds on the 2nd lap of an international 800m is unheard of. Coe ran all 3 bends wide in that final, running approx 10 or 11m extra. In essence he had run 811m in 1:45.85, which is worth around 1:44.4/1:44.5 for 800m. He ran the equivalent to a 49.8 last 400 and a 24.4 last 200m. So in terms of actual speeds reached, you are absolutely correct. No one before or since has closed so fast in such a fast (1:45 or faster) 800m than Coe did in Miscow. There was nothing wrong with his speed, and he would have won relatively easily had he not run considerably further than anyone else in the field. Ovett ran about an extra 3m, mainly on the first bend, in total over the course of the race. But even Coe cannot give someone like Ovett an 8m head start in an Olympic final.
I agree with all you say. Mo Farah is very over hyped, and doesn't deserve it. Ovett, Coe, Thompson, Carl Lewis, Gebresalassie, Bekele, Ed Moses, Jan Zaleznie, Sergie Bubka, Torvill and Dean etc etc, all won Olympic gold by the bucket full, but they also all set World Records, but the bucket full. Mo has no World records.
@@francishooton3933 Mo cant be expected to break absurdly fast crooked world records. He won 2 back to back 5 and 10K at 2 olympics. he's Britain's greatest olympic track athlete at any rate if not the greatest overall.
Yes, he did say that. The difference being that Coe gave himself little chance of beating Cram in the 86 1500m, due to being too far behind him and boxed at the bell. Coe ran the penultimate bend in lane 2, and had he just run the same distance as Cram, would have covered the last lap about 0.4 faster than Cram. With Ovett, he was in the perfect position at the bell and on Coe's shoulder with 100m to go. Coe covered the last 100m in 12.1. Ovett was never going to beat that.
@houghgree2 Whilst I have made it clear in previous comments that I have posted (on this 'You Tube' board) that I consider Steve Ovett to have been a genuinely great athlete in his prime, I have never said that he was superior to Sebastian Coe.
During the 1500 metres Olympic final - which took place in Moscow on 1st August, 1980 - Mr [now Lord] Coe displayed phenomenal speed in the final 100 metres of the race. In fact, I believe that he covered the last 100 metres in 12.1 secs.
@TheEctomorph I disagree. The 77 World Cup was a one off race against lesser (relative) opponents. The way the race played out was tailor made for Ovett's strengths, which were, a relative consistent pace with a very fast last 200m. His last 800m in Dusseldorf was a relatively sedate (for 3:34.4 race) 1:54.2. The penultimate 200m from the bell was also pretty slow at 29.1. It was because of this that he had the energy to then run a 12.0 100m curve from 200m & finish with a 13.1 in the straight.
The difference between the 2 races is that in 77 Ovett ran the last 100m in 13.1 while in Moscow he ran it in 12.8. But more importantly the last 800 in Moscow was 1:48 pace compared to 1:54 pace in 77. He strained because he had nothing left.
The WR dropped from 3.32.2 (set in 1974) to 3.29.7 - (1985) - just over 2 seconds in 11 years.
@deano27671 What can I say - but thank you for your insightful and perceptive comments about the Ovett/Coe rivalry? Having read your comments, I am in no doubt that you are more knowledgeable about those two great athletes - and about middle-distance running generally - than my good self.
Are you, by any chance, that chap who wrote a book called: "The Perfect Distance: Ovett and Coe - The Middle Distance Rivalry"?
@mahtivaari72 He already is one of the all time great milers courtesy of 2 x 1500 WRs (plus a sort of = it), 2 x 1 Mile WRs and 2 golds in the 1500m World cups of 77 and 81. In my mind both are equivalent to being world champion in an era just before the World Champs existed. Not to mention of course his Olympic 800 gold. The important thing to be considered an all time great is to win an individual Olympic gold, the exact event is of secondary importance.
There wasn't anybody close to a peak Ovett. However his unbeaten record had to be defended in Moscow and that took too much out of him. Put too much in to the heats.
SirPeter6464 I don’t think that was the case at all. Someone of Ovett’s ability should have no difficulty running a 3:36.8 heat after 3 days rest following the 800 final! He then had a relatively easy 3:43.1 semi. Coe’s corresponding races were 3:40.1 and 3:39.3, so accumulatively Coe’s 2 heats were marginally faster. Coe also had to run a 3:35.8 sf the day before his 84 Olympic win, and it didn’t seem to affect his ability in the final too much. The difference between this race (77 World Cup) and the Moscow final is that here the penultimate lap was slow and even the penultimate 200m was over 29 secs. In Moscow Straub went from a long way from home, something that Ovett wasn’t used to, ran a 54 secs 3rd lap and a 27 flat penultimate 200m. Ovett just couldn’t change pace quite as explosively in Moscow as he had in the World Cup, when the pace only heated up with 200m to go.
@@deano27671 He had to win to keep his streak going. He didn't needed to win to qualify. Can't have helped can it. Run to another set of rules than the actual winner?
Wow
@houghgree2 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about S. Ovett and S. Coe]: Mr Brendan Foster (who knows a thing or two about athletics) was quoted in Pat Butcher's book "The Perfect Distance: Ovett and Coe", as saying that he believed Ovett's prime years, athletically speaking, were '77 and '78.
My own view is that I am uncertain as to whether or Ovett was past his prime as a middle-distance runner by the time of the 1980 Olympics. What I would say with conviction is this:
The course of this race played into the hands of Ovett's main strength; namely his explosive kick with 200m to go. The pace just prior to that point was v. slow (29 secs for the previous 200m). In Moscow it had been 27.0. You can't really compare the 2 races, as they were very different in terms of pace efficiency.
[Continuing on from my previous 'post' about S. Ovett and S. Coe]: Mr Ovett's burst of speed - over the final furlong [200m] of that 1500 metres race in Dusseldorf, West Germany, on 3rd September 1977 - was comparable (if not superior) to Coe's finishing speed in the Olympic final, three years later. I believe that, in '77, Mr Ovett covered the final 200 metres in 24.7 secs (hand-timed), whereas Mr Coe took 24.8 secs to cover the last 200 metres of the 1500 metres race in Moscow.
When I was kid I idolised Ovett. For me he made athletics cool. Think Usain Bolt. I remember a match against the DDR, I think, when he started celebrating and waving to the crowd with about 100m to go and the East Germans chasing hard..
Fantastic race to watch. Does anyone know why John Walker pulled up? He is a tough competitor and there must have been a good reason. He looked to be in a bit of pain and struggled during the 3rd lap. Clearly he became boxed in down the back straight and Ovett tactically judged his race to perfection.
@bootymanager [continuing on from my previous 'post' about Mr John Rodda.]
autobiography, "Ovett", which was originally published in October 1984. You may well have read the book to which I refer.
Let me take this opportunity to wish you a Happy New Year.
@FullMontyUK It was June 78 at Crystal Palace. It was a very slow 1500m (3:53.8!!) and Ovett won by 0.28 with a 24.8 last 200m.
You're absolutely right about Straub's tactics though. Ovett's 200m kick was rendered impotent if someone went early enough. Cram did a similar thing to him at the Palace in 83, but Ovett wasn't quite as good still by then. Even so, Straub's last 100m in Moscow was c. 12.6, which is faster than Ovett's last 100m in Dusseldorf! Straub was never able to do that.
@deano27671 [Continuing on from my previous 'post' about the Coe/Ovett rivalry]: by the late John Rodda of The Guardian newspaper.
I have also read "Running Free" - a 1980 biography of Mr Coe - which, I believe, was written in part by Mr David Millar, and in part by the great middle-distance runner himself.
It is about time that Lord Coe and Mr Ovett started working on new, updated autobiographies ... in my humble opinion, at any rate!
It's a pity that Ovett never won olympic gold in 1500m. He would have earned it as one of the all time greatest milers.
I never much liked Ron Pickering's style - but I think his commentary in this race was equal to the legendary status of the race.
On this day a Mr Coe or Cram in their prime wouldn’t beat Mr Ovett
@futuremodal You offered 1 example of a negative split; Coe's LA win.
In 1986 European championships Coe knew what Ovett meant about his quote in 1980,as he would have beaten Cram in the 1500 if he hadn't have won the 800 first,I thought they were both fantastic great era of middle distance running.
I think Ovett's kick here is phenomenal. But remember his last 200m of 25.1 was off a last lap of only 54.4 and a last 800m of 1:54! Coe's last 200m in Moscow was faster (25.0) off a much faster last 400 (52.2) and 800m, 1:48.5. I think people sometime see what Ovett did to the opposition in this one race and then mistakenly think he run below par when he didn't do the same in other races. Ovett was just as good in Moscow as he was here or in Prague, if not better.
Walker at the end is like "WTF just happened?"