TNG Ep 18: Let's do a chef knife on the Work Sharp
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Thursday Night Grind Episode 18 !!
Sharpening a chef knife on the Work Sharp Ken Onion Edition Sharpener with the Blade Grinding attachment !!
Find the tool here:
amzn.to/2Fw3qtm Work Sharp with Blade Grinding Attachment
Every Thursday Night I sharpen something on the bench at my knife and tool sharpening side business:
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Sorry to be offtopic but does anyone know of a trick to get back into an Instagram account..?
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@Terry Theodore Instablaster :)
@Lane Shane thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and Im trying it out now.
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By going one side to another it's difficult to form a burr because it's removed everytime you go from one side to another.
When using a stone you sharpen the same side until you get a burr.
Thanks for your comment Benny, but that's not true. Going side to side on a coarse belt won't remove the burr. It gets pushed from side to side. To remove the burr you need to go to finer grits or leather. Same thing applies on stones. Cheers, Matt
Hi Matthew, I enjoy your videos. Very informative and a sincere approach to sharpening, something I love to do.
I use the Work Sharp for nearly all my sharpening. I have the 2 of the original Work Sharp sharpeners, 1/2" belt. Good little machines and they do a nice job, and they are indispensable for some types of sharpening.
EX: I have learned a trick with the basic model to sharpen small hand clippers (cuts small branches). There is no way to sharpen the whole curved blade without this trick. - Use a medium grit belt and turn it inside out so that the grit side is against the rollers. Work Sharp would likely never recommend this, but it is the only way to sharpen those hand clippers. The Ken Onion model will not do this type of sharpening, just too much in the way.
The next one I have is the Ken Onion. I do all the restaurants chefs knives on that. I usually sharpen at 17 1/2 degrees. This seems to be ideal for what they do.
I recently got the blade grinding attachment. I am learning to love it.
At 15:25 in your video the reason you are not getting a burr is that you are switching sides. When developing a burr with the coarse belt it is important to only work one side at a time. When you get a nice burr then switch to the other side for the same number of strokes.
At 19 minutes you mention that you did not find a supplier for the 1" by 18" belts. I have, they are out there.
Thanks for all that, Norman. I appreciate your feedback and I'm glad you're enjoying the videos! See you next Thursday.
I'm a waterstone guy, I learned on them and prefer choseras and shapton ha no kurumakus. I've never been interested in units like the work pros and other setups that control the angle like that until the blade grinding attachment came out. It's fantastic for reprofiling and allows me to continue freehand sharpening. I truly believe there is no "better" way to sharpen then freehanded. You develope a deep understanding and intricate knowledge in regards to blade sharpening as you progress. I am aware that it is not for everybody and the average person wants quick and efficient and to simply cut.
when raising the burr on the coarse you should stay with on side of the knife until you raise the burr then you do the same number of passes on the other side
The reason people give that advice is based on the assumption that the edge was centered on the blade thickness to start, and to try to guide you to a symmetrical bevel when you're done.
You can alternate sides and still end up with a symmetrical bevel with the edge centered.
The easiest way to tell, as far as I know, is to look closely at the bevels and make sure they're the same thickness, assuming you're keeping the angle the same from side to side.
If you're making that suggesting from a different perspective please let me know.
@@capnmatt41 mainly referring on how to Work Sharp recommends you do it, so more for maybe a beginner. Seen a lot of people that buy a ken onion and say they have trouble getting the burr and a lot of the time its because they are flipping the knife on each pass
Gotcha. For people who feel like it's taking too long to bring up a burr I'd suggest starting at a coarser belt. I start at 120, but maybe even an 80 grit to get the ball rolling.
Hi Matt I am from England, I have a Ken onion work sharp and I love it, done all of my brothers kitchen knives, 4 pocket knives and my homes chefs knife so far on it and they are now all like scalpels. Tip I will give anyone is use a sharpie or marker to mark the edge of any knife you wanna sharpen then rub it across the belt if it takes all of the pen off then you have the correct angle mark it down on a bit of paper for future reference then start your work
Ah yes, the sharpie trick. Thanks man.
@@capnmatt41 It just plain works nice chefs knife by the way just got done sharpening a couple of beater knives there I put a toothy edge on one which was a gerber paraframe mini I don’t really like it but it’s ok now and I made the other one sharp enough to cleanly slice steak which I prefer
I bought one after watching your videos and I must agree, Once I learned the proper ttechnique my knifes come out super sharp.. For my really expensive folding knifes though I still use a Wicked Edge 130..
I'm an Edge Pro guy, but yeah, same. I like to prep the bevels on a belt and then finish them on a guided system.
I love my Ken onion version. I want to get the attachment you’re showing here. But/ the basic one is rocking the wife’s kitchen knives just fine.
Nice!
TSPROF is absolutely the best of its format…
My WSKOE Grinding system came the other day, but I finally used it for the first time today. I got a pocket knife to practice on, and within a few minutes, four belts, and stropping on my everyday wear belt; it was push sharp against receipt paper.
I decided to go all in since it was so easy to use. I laid out all the kitchen knives that I wanted to sharpen plus the remaining two blades on the pocket folder. I did all of them on the coarse belt, then changed up to the medium and did all of them again, then the fine, then extra fine. This saved belt changes and I didn’t have to power down the unit as often.
My wife was impressed with the sharpness of her favorite go-to knife for cutting vegetables. I can truthfully say, I highly recommend this setup. I may get more serious with this and look into a 1x30, or other larger setup. But I’ve seen videos on this unit where some have three lined up with different belts. That may be my first upgrade.
To get a burr you have to do one side at a time. Then switch to every other side to begin sharpening. You will have better luck with that.
I own the Ken Onion (no grinding attachemnt). I can get shaving sharp in just a few minutes. It’s so easy to use. Also you get a convex grind edge which is inherently more durable. But all belt changes and adjustments are done without tools and it’s fast low frustration realatively high accuracy. Very easy to use.
Glad to hear it's working out for you.
My buddy has a WorkSharp and I was just telling him to check you out. Perfect timing with this. Thanks!
Thanks dude!
As a machinist I built a 30" version of the Ken onion higher up version. I liked the fact that there are an abundant variety of 30" belts available. The downside is that my sander is only as my hands. I decided to purchase a sharpener that is much better for me. The 6" diamonds consistently do a great job.
I've been noodling over a system like that. I'd love to see a pic of what you built. If you're up for it please send one to matt@americanedgesharpening.com
Thanks!
I attempted to send an e-mail to your listed address, but it would notice. Do you have an e-mail address.
@@johnwalters6800 I’d like to see it too if you don’t mind.
$550 is approximately nothing...
I have the workshop with the blade grinding attachment. The kme clamp system, TSPROF Blitz360. I also freehand on benchstones and have diamond plates ceramic plates yada yada yada.. I totally agree with you the workshop has its place it's great for blade repair. I sharpened kitchen knives for my neighbors for free, lots and lots of them. Thanks a lot for the video much appreciated. 😎👍
I hear you but also realize that money is a very relative thing and to a lot of people $500 is huge.
That's why I push a side business so much, an extra $500 a month can radically transform some people's lives.
Hi from England, you are right about supply and price, here in the U K I cant find any generic makers of these belts I thought you would have some in the USA. I am not saying its right but I have loads of 1/2 inch x 18 inch belts for my powerfile and I am using those on my ken onion attachment with good results, a pack of worksharp costs 22 pounds here plus I have to get the 5 different grits so I cheat. Good video mate keep well and be lucky
You cannot have a burr because you remove it by switching the blade from left to rigjt and remove it from rigjt to left (or vice-versa).
Love the vids and the explanations you give to us .
I used wetstones for years and i made the shift for this work sharp elite setup and i must say i save a lot of time , but with the wet stones i sharpend my knives like the blade flatt at some point like from the middle of the knive , i looked but no one did such a kind repair video where you repair the blade that when you do some cutting on the board its nice and fluid and not that you feel like you dropped the blade .
Thanks for watching and for your comment, though I'll confess I'm having a hard time making sense of what you are trying to say.
More friktion the finer the grit ( more prone to build heat). Fyi Thanks for showing.
You don't need to go too fast , just steady and keep your angles correct.. I love mine, I use it all the time for one thing or another..
Right on. Thanks!
Great video. One thing though, if your having trouble finding 1 X 18 belts for the Ken Onion belt grinder, your just not looking . If you have a computer the options are numerous and very reasonable to downright cheap in price. I've had my setup for about 2 yrs. and have had no problem in finding numerous belt choices. Give it a look.
Imho and after years of use the main Ken Onion sharpener without using the blade grinder, again not using the blade grinder, does a better job on knives. It does a better job controlling the blade angle and the belts cost less. Belt 1 seldom use it. Belt 5 seldom use it. The three core belts will make a blade sing!
It’s not enough to buy equipment to become a sharpener. It takes study and practice. Watch 100 UA-cam videos and take notes.
Hi Matt, love your video series :) Two points you have raised have been bothering me for a long time as well, and I think I solved them to a certain degree. First was the missing platen on BGA (guys at WorkSharp should really make this as optional accessory!) As alternative, I am now looking at Dick SM 100, it has the same grinding style as BGA with optional platen. For the other point about the air quality, a strong magnet saves the day. I have installed it like an inch or two behind the upper wheel, small in size 60x30x15mm, but with 44kg pull. Cleanliness of the air and workbench has improved dramatically, all dust is on the magnet and it is very easy to take off with just a pinch of fingers.
Thanks man!
I looked at the F.Dick SM 100 and the image that came up doesn't look to me like Work Sharp's BGA. Pass a link if you'd like.
Magnets are great, I'm glad you're getting good results with yours.
@@capnmatt41 ua-cam.com/video/XiQ8PoHf918/v-deo.html
By the way did you buy Neodymium Magnet on Amazon? Would like to have a clean work space. Great idea.
@@Mygraciously it was neodymium, but not from Amazon. And since then I have upgraded to an industrial dust collector, so am not using the magnet anymore :)
So glad I found your channel. I am starting a sharpening business and you seem like an excellent sounding board.
Super!
Check out guildofsharpeners.org if you're serious about your sharpening business and value your time.
Your videos are the best on UA-cam loads of information great work Matthew 👍👍👍
thank you for that. Got mine a couple days ago. Going to get it revving soon.
Hope you love it!
Set a box fan with a filter behind the sharpener you are throwing the grit that way already you can work towards perfect but that will catch alot of the particles to start simple
I have one. I like it for many things. For certain others I like Waterstones. It does produce a lot of grit and I wear a respirator when working through a bunch of knives. One item, you can move the rear top pulley to change from a pretty profound concave grind to a more conventional flat grind by tightening up the sharpening surface and not allowing so much belt sag. Just loosen with a hex and move it to the next hole closer to the top-most pulley. I prefer that location.
Yes.
An incredibly versatile and precise device. I always wear a respirator. Good Video. ✌
Thanks! 👍
Good knowledge brother,
Much appreciated.
You're very welcome!
Thanks for watching.
Still one belt after that on mine that is extra fine and gives bevel mirror polish. I got one because just like to keep my knives sharp and had shortest learning curve.
Right on!
Another good option, Matt. One thing I have been watching is the belt cost. The 1x30 belts are such a better value. The WorkSharp has a place, but not better than the Edge Pro for me. Plus, I can tell when someone has been using a a Chef Pro. I am glad to fix those bevels all day long.
Right?! I try to keep an even keel but I shudder at the thought of putting a piece of nice cutlery through the Chef Pro...
AIR QUALITY!! THANK YOU!!!
You bet! It's a big deal.
My issue would be holding the correct angle pulling the blade across the belt. I would likely vary the angle a lot. Any advice on being able to maintain the angle on the blade while pulling it?
It does have that flat reference point in front so calibrate your hand to that and then it's just practice keeping your hand flat as you go across the belt. Set a goal of doing 100 knives. You'll get it.
My three primary sharpening systems are JET (Tormek), Wicked Edge Gen 3 Pro and this Blade Grinder. If I could choose only one that would be a hard choice. If the works keeps falling apart I’ll sharpen my tools on rocks, till then the Blade Grinder is a great choice. If I screw up a knife on my Wicked Edge or my JET I pull out my WorkSharp and fix it. I have never fouled up a knife on my Work Sharp.
Watching your video, I noticed you keep rotating the knife to get a bur. You should only sharpen one side until you get a bur. Then rotate to the other side and sharpen until you get a bur. Now it is time to change the belt to a finer grit. Repeat until you get to your finest belt. Now rotate your knife until you feel no bur. Then strop.
You need to tell me why you recommends that.
I disagree, and I have reasons why.
Think through what you're saying and explain the logic and reason behind it so that I understand, please.
Milbank: What you get with your method is an asymmetric (chisel shaped) edge. Fine for sushi knives but most of us like the edge centered.
Love my edgepro. Will probably go up to a tormek someday. Want to try one first. Don't love the loud motor and indoor grinding.
You're welcome to take a turn on mine, it would be good to talk Tormek sometime.
@@capnmatt41 I relish that opportunity!
I like that the WorkSharp has the angle guide on it (even if just for reference). That's one thing I can't wrap my head around on the standard 1x30. How do you keep that consistent angle? I'm assuming with practice it will eventually come. Thanks for showing the different options in gear.
What I do on the 1x30 is err on the side of a shallower angle. So if I'm going to finish a knife on the Edge Pro at 21 degrees, I'll aim for 18 or something on the 1x30. Then, when I go to the EP those stones are at a steeper angle and building a burr right away. But yes, that comes with feel, and if you want to practice, set a bevel on the EP and then use the sharpie trick to train your hand and eye for that angle on the 1x30. Make sense?
@@capnmatt41 Yes that makes sense. I can't wait to give this a try. Hopefully it will speed up my sharpening time on these reprofiles (and save my stones).
You're not feeling a burr because your flipping the knife over from one side to the other.
I disagree but if you'd like to elaborate I welcome you to.
The burr moves from one side to the other🤷♂️
I think the Work Sharp instructions say to make 5 passes each side to get the burr
You work on one side until it forms a burr..
I bought it and I love it 👍👍👍👍
Yep. I’m not a stickler for adhering to instructions either. With experience you learn that each blade is a little different whether it’s the material, edge type, blade shape or degree of damage. Hone not just the blade, but your technique and find what works for you.
Yes! Love it.
Great info! Looking to use this out of a van. Can you suggest what size generator I would need?
It would be best that you run your own numbers based on what machines you'll have and what power source you go with. Here's the equation to work with:
Power (in watts) = Current (in amps) x Voltage
good luck!
I thought you had to do one side several times and then flip and do the other? I thought that’s what would develop the burr the best?
Rather than address that exactly I would rather just offer the question, why?
I like that you challenge my approach but it sounds like it's based on something that you've seen or been told rather than something that you've figured out.
If you can build a convincing case around why you or I should focus on one side first and then the other I'm very receptive to taking in that information. Let me know!
@@capnmatt41 well in my very limited whetstone sharpening experience, that was a technique I’ve seen while researching and also tried. When I started I figured the fastest and most accurate way to a sharp knife was the method of switching sides but what happened to me is that it basically stopped any progress toward forming a solid burr. It’s like I was honing the knife from the start and it makes the process take so much longer. By focusing on a side until a get a burr and then flipping and matching the number of passes then I was able to, easily and at a much faster pace, get a solid burr that got me to my desired edge. Like you said in the video, what works the best for you is the best one, only reason I mention it because it seemed harder to get the burr in the beginning and ultimately you could have just had a harder piece of steel too. Honestly it was meant legitimately as a question initially until you asked me to explain my thoughts. I’m sure you have WAY more experience so it was more of a check and see if I’m wasting time myself.
I try to say often that there is no "right" way to sharpen, there are several and I'm glad you've found a method that works well for you.
The only thing that I would offer would be to gunsight down the edge from time to time to make sure that your edge is centered between the thickness of the steel.
By working 1 side more than another you'll push that edge off of center so you'll need to work the other side enough to get a full burr up along the whole length of the blade with the edge centered.
Thanks for weighing in and thank you for your comment!
@@capnmatt41 I believe the instructions say to stay on one side of the blade at the first coarse grind to develop a burr and then move on to finer grits with alternating strokes to gradually remove it. That’s how I do it on the Work Sharp. Seems to work. I still finish with a hand strop.
@@chuckd2845 Right on. Hat tip for reading and referencing the instructions. I respect that. And if it works for you, that's super. I feel like I'm at the level in the sharpening game where I challenge everything and try to understand the core reasoning behind stuff like this. There's tons of it. People read it and treat it as gospel. The biggest challenge I have with that method is that if the blade is damaged and you follow that instruction without thinking you'll push the edge off to one side. Alternating strokes has a higher likelihood of keeping it centered. Or best yet, watch it and pay attention and try to fully understand what's going on. Bottom line is that it doesn't even matter. Build up a burr on both sides, keep the edge centered and refine to your desired grit. Thanks for weighing in, man.
Is it so loud?
I dont see why they didn't put the the reference plate higher or even make it as a grinding platform your set angle is the angle to the platform? If that make sence.
There are some aftermarket items you can purchase or print with a 3D printer that might address what you're asking for.
Hey, Matt -
I've dabbled with both the KME & the Ken Onion rig. Unfortunately, I lost both kits in a move about 3 years ago.
I went ahead and purchased the "Master Kit" from TSPROF just before Christmas. Also, a decent 3"x12" double-sided strop. I'm on the look out right now for some better abrasive stones than the ones that were included in the Master Kit. And, some of the 6" narrow stones for recurves & smaller folder blades.
I'm mostly retired now and have downsized to the quiet life in a retirement community - so I no longer have my shop, which I miss every day.
I've been watching all of these sharpening tutorials here on UA-cam, refreshing my skills & learning many new ones.
I really appreciate your channel, your tutorials are almost like hanging out with you in the shop.
I'm hoping to grow even more motivated to pursuing sharpening as a sideline of sorts.
Thank you for these, and take care...
Most of what I have seen says you do one side of the knife until you get a burr then do the other side with the same number of passes.
Do you know why people say that?
@@capnmatt41 Because it is the correct technique.
Well, you are welcome to believe that if you would like, but I would invite you to explore the reasons why people make suggestions like that. Having a full understanding will make you a better sharpener.
I just bought one at Work Sharp sharpener Ken onion Edition and I'm looking at starting a small knife sharpening business like at the flea markets. What is your opinion starting a sharpening business at the flea market with this setup
Sharing my full set of opinions would take more space than is appropriate for the comments section on UA-cam, and partly why I built the Guild of Professional Sharpeners.
If you're serious, it's doable, and you should join a community to help you mitigate learning everything the hard way.
I joke that I didn't learn how to start a sharpening business, I learned all the ways not to until I finally figured it out.
Best to you either way! -Matt
Any worry about ventilation or metal dust going through house indoors? Is it necessary to wear a mask? I’m assuming eye protection is recommended however I’m curious if using the blade grinding attachment which direction the particles would fly away or towards face?
Particles would fly away most likely, rather than toward your face.
Dust management is definitely an issue and a mask is one way to manage that.
Eye protection is always a good idea with tools like these.
Is that tool grinding attachment still available?? Can’t find it.
No! I've asked them to do another run of them. I use that tool frequently. It's sweet.
@@capnmatt41 please let me know when it's back in stock. Thank you!
For a home chef and someone who LOVES his sharp knives, cooks a lot and cuts a lot of foods Wouk you suggest this over Edge Pro or TSPROF
Considering no side hustle element just a desire to have my own sharp knives and maybe do it for family here and there…would you still recommend the Edge Pro or TSPROF over the ken onion (with grinding attachment)? I don’t mind paying $500+ for the set up at home with either tool, just thinking more about practicality from viewpoint of home chef who likes razor sharp knives that can easily slice tomatoes and just slides through meats but doesn’t need income to come from his investment. Just practicality. Watching some videos on Edge Pro and TSPROF they both look amazing, just wondering is it for me…
There's a lot of factors that go into tool selection and I'm hesitant to offer suggestions or guidance via this platform. They all have plusses and minuses and there is no perfect solution, and that is great.
Without going deeper into it, I'd suggest getting a sharpener that you are most excited about learning and trying.
No matter how many time I try it the attachment and how tight I make it, the belt slips right off. Any thoughts?
That shouldn't happen. There is an adjustment screw, that when you turn it, the belt went to the left or right side. Have you tried that screw?
What do you think of the Tormak system for sharpening please ?
That's a big question and one that I cannot give justice to here.
Correct me if I’m wrong, I feel the blade grinding attachment there’s room for error if you slightly adjust your angle while sharpening. I use the guide that came with my Ken onion and I love it. Is there a benefit of the blade grinding attachment over the guide that came with the sharpener?
If you've found a system you enjoy, Vinny, I say you go with that. Keep exploring and have fun with it.
I found your interview on the side hustle nation podcast. Very interested in this kind of craft to learn. How long will would it take for a complete beginner to learn this craft and start charging to do other peoples knives?
Hi Devrin, thanks for finding my channel. There's a lot of 'it depends' in that answer so maybe we can connect to talk about your situation? I've built a program at guildofsharpeners.org and my contact info is there. Look forward to it!
Suggestion for getting started in knife sharpening: go to your local churches and explain that you sharpen knives locally . Ask them if they would like their kitchen knives sharpened - at no cost. The only thing you ask is that you spread the word. You can learn a lot very fast. I got started this way and sharpened about 150 knives before I felt competent enough to start charging.
@@normanblack9502
Great idea, Norm!
I own a chef choice trizor XV great sharpener but i will never use it for a client knife it will ruin the tip of your blade and you can scratch the blade but the wife loves it its kind of an idiot proof system
Definitely no shortage of sharpening tool options out there. The best one, in my opinion, is the one that works best for each individual.
I want that tool attachment but I can not find it in stock anywhere.
Red Label Abrasives,. Quality belts for 1/2 the price of the OEM belts. 👍
I've used them but am currently using Trizacts from Cliff Curry.
@@capnmatt41 what the contact info for Cliff? Thanks
@@rottiejakeluke search curry custom cutlery in Hawaii and you'll find him
Is there a way to replace the motor on 1 by 30 HF belt sander to slow the speed down some? Any particular motor that would fit? I have that system by the way it’s nice. Good for sharpening scissors too.
There's always a way but it probably involves replacing the motor and then you need to ask how much money you want to put into a HF sander. (And time)
With the Ken Onion itself I constantly get a burr on the same side?
Sorry, I don't understand the question.
@@capnmatt41 I think it's caused by belt rotation , much better with the blade grinding attachment.
I own about every knife sharpener is the Work Sharp stable and at the moment I am waiting for the Work Sharp grinder attachment to arrive. As far as this unit that this guy is showing I think it is garbage. I prefer to use my Wicked Edge. But I am looking forward to trying the grinder attachment.
This is a confusing comment, Robert.
It sounds like you're saying that the tool is garbage, but you've never used one, and you purchased one and you're looking forward to getting it.
Could you clarify?
So if you were to buy one system between this or the Apex Edge Pro which would you choose?
It doesn't work like that, too many other variables and my feedback would be case by case.
I have that conversation with people in the Guild to help guide that decision.
@@capnmatt41 that kind of makes sense
120 220 1000 3000 12000 grit
How do you deal with the heavy bolsters?
Try this
ua-cam.com/video/B995zvjmJrA/v-deo.html
Clearly not doing it right.. a burr is created sharpening the same side and burr is on the other side, you DEBURR by grinding the burred side, you are flipping it every pass
How do you get a burr when you keep alternating sides???
A burr forms when one side of the metal is ground to a point where it meets the other side. That is when an apex is formed. Why would I not get a burr by alternating sides?