Thanks for watching, yall! I hope people don't get the wrong idea from me here. I do NOT think the Champion is a bad class. Do I think it's the worst class in the system? Yes, I do, but that does not mean it's bad. I just prefer the others to this one and think this has some serious issues that need tweaking. The champion still has it's own amazing synergies with itself and especially with a ton of archetypes. I hope you'll excuse my whining in this video. I just really wanted to get my thoughts and opinions on the class out there.
Hey. Is it for fun and laughs that the actual part 1 has no part number and part 2 has part 1 in the title. I assume it is since it seems that part 3 has part 2 in it's name.
Honestly so many aspects of Champions from the Oaths, to the boring Feats, to the lack of tasty smites, to the focus points not explicitly included, to the unexciting divine allies, to the reactions and shield block taking up the same space, to the requirement of alignments and tenets, altogether make the Champion a pretty upsetting and disappointing Class. And like, it’s technically a pretty good class! Actually mechanically subtly pretty fantastic, just wow there’s so much that could use a rework to feel more wild and expressive. I can ensure sooooo many people moving from 5E to PF2E will take a look at the Champion and grimace with disappointment despite being technically decently engineered.
5:30 I disagree that Steed Ally is far and above the best choice. Unlike other animal companions, your steed will probably start off Large, which means it'll be difficult to use and maneuver in confined areas. The other two options don't have that limitation, and Shield Ally in particular will always be useful, no matter what's the situation.
Not to mention that the main point of the steed is to be mounted during combat, which is really only an advantage in wide open areas. If you don't do much travelling, then the steed ally is pretty useless. The blade ally, meanwhile, gives you useful options - I would probably leave my weapon on ghost touch by default, just in case.
I haven’t seen it for myself, but I’ve heard really good things about the Liberator’s reaction. Allowing someone to move away from the enemy after the enemy’s first attack often means that if the enemy wants to attack them again they’ll have to waste an action just to step up. Really good way of pseudo-stunning foes frequently.
"Why is this only for paladins?!" Redeemers would be more about trying to figure out why that bad guy is doing that and fixing the problem Liberators would be more focused on getting the victim into a better situation. Paladin is the one Good Champion whose main focus would be to purge the perpetrator in holy fire.
Re: Ranged Reprisal - I totally agree that this is lame for ranged paladins, but I recently played in a high level game as a paladin with this and a reach weapon and I got a TON of use out of it. It's safe to say that I dealt out and prevented HUNDREDS of extra damage because of this feat.
@@aquamarinerose5405 You don't. The Retributive Strike ability triggers when you are within 15 feet of the enemy and your ally when the enemy damages your ally, and if they are within your reach, you can make a strike against it. They can be 10 feet away from you and get hit with this reaction if you're using a reach weapon. This ability extends your effective reach to 15 feet.
I'm planning to use this with a follower of Arqueros whose deific weapon is the spear. Usually they'd use it as a melee weapon. But if necessary they'd throw it at someone.
Ranged reprisal works when you have a returning weapon ally. You are fighting someone and, an ally and enemy within 15 feet fighting. Your Ally is hit and you throw your weapon at their attacker with ranged retribution, it returns to you. You continue fighting your opponent and your Ally is now buffed as well.
The CE champion reaction could be fixed by just rolling 2d6 and assigning one to you and one to your enemy. As you get more dice you just roll in one big pool and assign as you wish. It would be a great way to differentiate from the LE without going crazy on the damage advantage.
I don't know man... I haven't played a champion yet but some of the feats you describe as bad or horrible sound really great or at least really useful to me. As many game designers have stated: Once you get past the complexity of Tic Tac Toe or Chess, there is no objective judgement of game balance. Game balance in complex games is always highly subjective.
I agree with this 100%. In such a subjective genre as TTRPGs, it will be impossible to ever find perfect balance in any game that will appear balanced to all of it's players. Especially in a game as luck-dependant as D&D or Pathfinder. Honestly, though, it's what makes playing and analyzing these systems so fun and leads to really interesting discussion. What may seem useless and bad to one person might be incredible and great to another. I love talking about this stuff lol.
My favorite instance of this is how he harps on the press trait for fighters while completely ignoring the fact that because their weapon proficiency is higher than any other class they've got an extra +2 to hit to begin with.
I would suggest that the reason Vengeful Oath is Paladin only is that Paladins are the only ones who are about punishing evil actions. Liberators are about ensuring people's freedom, while Redeemers are about helping people no longer be evil, but Paladins are about stomping evil out. So thematically, it kind of only really works for the Paladin.
Oof... damn nonat, you wound me haha This was way more brutal than I expected, and I gotta say, I feel like you're misrepresenting how good the champion is.
@@akselraya3477 I can only speak to the good aligned champions, so keep that in mind, but champions are king of defense. Not just personal (because monks can get really close) but for the party. If they can stay as close to 15 feet to all their party and enemies as possible (easier said than done) they'll be able to regularly provide 2+Level damage reduction and something else. If they have a shield, they can shield block allies, especially allies who can't do that (2-handing, not proficient, etc). More than that, because they're packing charisma, they can be a good party face. Not as optimal as a sorcerer or bard, sure, but only just behind them. Nonat mentions that the shield ally isn't amazing because it only increases hardness by 2, but he forgets that it also increases the HP of shields meaning you can use them for longer. Take into account that the champions have amazing AC to start, and their shields will rarely get hit, and when they do, will last longer. He also forgets that the blade ally's rune powers are free, meaning they can have 4, while everyone has only 3, and gain access to the weapon critical specializations Basically, the way I see it, champions focus their efforts on responding to other characters' actions. They have many feats that grant them extra reactions (up to 3 total), and are probably optimally played such that they spend their actions setting up shield blocks, or retributive strikes, or at higher levels, both. When you get Shield of Reckoning at 10th level, you can combine 2 of these reactions into 1, but still likely having more left over. I once had the stars align and managed to get off 4 reactions in a round: Quick Block, Champion's Reaction, and then a Shield of Reckoning for another reaction of each. And this was at level 14. Idk of any other class that can have that much control over the battlefield when it's not their turn. This is also not considering that lay on hands boosts the AC of their allies as well as providing infinite (but slow) healing, and champions are the ultimate support class. Slap on a bard or sorcerer multiclass archetype on there and no one can compare to you when it comes to protection/support EDIT: credit where credit is due though, and it's true that the champion, especially in early levels, is EXTREMELY reaction and feat starved. It's the type of class that you need to come in with a build already in mind, and hyper focus on that
@@andrewwahba5006 I'm with you. The Champion is an incredible tank, especially with their abilities that focus on protecting allies. I also agree that the Shield Ally is actually extremely good. In fact, I think that it may be the best of the three. The increased survivability for your shield is something that, I have seen in actual gameplay, is huge. And the related feats are top tier. The Champion is designed from the ground up as a tank and it is unsurpassed at that role.
In defense of the Oath feats: Paizo has more than once released an AP where the campaign's theme pretty much guaranteed you would run repeatedly into one of those classes of enemies over and over again. Examples: Carrion Crown, Strange Aeons, Wrath of the Righteous, and Tyrant's Grasp. At that point, it basically becomes almost as good as having 1st Ed's Favored Enemy against the theme monster of the campaign. But they should just have written it as one feat.
-Blade ally. I think it is usefull, because it is versitile. Disrupting, ghost touch, returning, shifting. Those are things that when they are needed they are rly usefull. Shiting is just good for blind fights, if enemy have resistance to specific dmg type of your weapon you can just change it. - Shield Ally is Good if you want to play as a tank IMO - Ranger Reprisal - Its not for archers but more for throwing weapons I think, - Oaths allowing you to switch one of them to another within a day is a little to good for those bonuses, maybe once a week you can change to other oath with no teacher or time or money required -Lightlsayer, it should be exacly as other oaths IMO - Mercy as free action or reation is resonable - Litany against wrath shoultn't be good dmg but radiant for example.
I feel like shifting is a very underappreciated rune. Since you can apply it to any weapon on daily prep you can put it on any magic weapons you have. Not only does it give you the versatility (walking into a guard camp with an inconspicuous whip than turning into a sword) you can also use it to dramatically increase your damage. In the middle of combat you can spend two actions: one to switch your dagger to a bastard sword and one to grip the bastard sword with two-hands. Now for the rest of combat you have just increased your damage from 1d4 to 1d12.
A Dwarf Half-Orc Champion Redeemer going all-in on shield/hardness options, Everstand Stance and picking up the golem grafter archetype: Toughness, Mountain's Stoutness, Golem Grafter to get an extra +60 HP at level 20 as well as death saves of 6+dying instead of 10+dying. Hardness up the wazoo for your Sturdy Shield soaking up a metric fuckton of damage. Orc Ferocity feat chain, Battle Medic and Lay on Hands. You'll be REALLY hard to take down.
@@biotechhazard2742 There is an optional rule in the CRB that suggests Half-Orc and Half-Elf be versatile heritages just like Tiefling, Aasimar and the like. If your DM doesn't allow this you can just grab Adopted Ancestry. Delays things a bit (Orc Ferocity being a level 1 feat) but you still have access to it all.
@@MrDylan2125 Another option is to drop Dwarf ancestry (which gives a penalty to Charisma) and go Half-Orc or Orc. Start with 14 Charisma. Your bread and butter turn would be: Stride, Demoralize, Everstand Strike. Adding a little debuff action to your tanky build can be pretty nice.
About the oaths feats involving killing certains creatures, I believe that they are make to certains campaings based on these creatures. In campaings not based in kill demons you could just pick another feat for exemple. English is not my language but I hope you all can understand what I wanted to say.
Oh hell yes, I really wish your suggestion for the Oath feats was how it worked. I wanted to pick Fiendsbane oath for my Paladin because early on we fought some devils, but I just couldn't justify it because I couldn't be sure what we would fight later. Being able to swap it would have made the choice so much easier. I also totally agree about Desperate Prayer and Deity's Domain - there are feats like Cackle that give a focus spell significantly better than most domain spells AND give a focus point, but Champions are shit outa luck. I suppose Desperate Prayer's function could be useful in a situation where you have a maxed focus pool and need to use lay on hands 4 times in one fight, but it would be way more consistent and balanced to tack on a focus point to Deity's Domain instead.
Looking at Iron Repurcussions... I cannot understand WHAT they were thinking with the Antipaladin and his self harm when the Tyrant has the option to harm the enemy or force it to drop prone... And as a DM, I would likely rule that 99% of monsters would refuse to kneel the first time around, making for guaranteed amazing damage!
Not sure if it's been said or not, but with blade ally and returning, could you not use that with ranged reprisal? That would give you extra chances to make retributive strike.
I feel Champion is one of those classes primed for taking archetype early since the lvl 2/4 feats aren't as good as other classes, Rogue for instance, by comparison. I built a full Orc Paladin of Ragathiel with blade ally. Took Sorcerer archetype basically to get the Shield cantrip so I can wield 2 handed, shifting bastard sword. I love it because the shifting is great flexibility based on the foe faced (ooze? its a bludgeoning weapon. Zombie? it's a slashing weapon). Took Die Hard to offset the extra Wounded level that can occur after my Orc ferocity. Also, whenever I've played the other party members do all they can to keep me up an going but the LOH to self heal makes this guy pretty hard to kill.
I played a lvl 7 Champion in a one shot with ranged reprisal and it was really useful for moving around the battle in places like hallways when ambushed. It was also very helpful in the boss fight to help give the rogue flanking bonuses while still giving both all of our actions.
I'm playing both a dnd 5e Paladin and a 2e Champion. And I have to say I really hated playing Champion in 2e. In combat, while literally everyone else was doing really cool shit with abilities and feats, I was stuck constantly raising my shield, smiting evil and attacking. Or I would use lay on hands when needed. Meanwhile, in 5e, I can summon a horse to ride, smite, cast spells, heal, tank damage, or support The feats for paladin in general just kinda suck, especially at low levels. The versatility of the paladin in Dnd 5e is just better. And yes, I do miss the mega damage and cool versions of smites.
Ranged reprisal is make to a Champion with blade ally and a throw weapon, like a dagger user with returning rune (1d6 if deity weapon). Not a garbage like you think, maybe is better open your mind to another types of builds.
You can also use it to hit enemies that are 15 feet above or below you, due to terrain or because of flight, which you would not necessarily be able to reach with a basic move.
It's been quite a few videos now where you've made your distaste for the fighter clear and I'd like to add my 2 cents to the discussion. Fighters are just that, fighters, all their strength comes from their skill with their weapons, shields, etc. Unlike other martial classes they don't get to fly into a rage that empowers them to supernatural levels, they don't get to become a literal angel and smite evil, they don't get to harness their ki and perfect their own bodies, etc. I find it odd that the proficiencies of fighters bug you so much when that's really all fighters get to distinguish themselves from the other martial classes. You don't play a fighter because they're "stronger" than other martial classes, you play a fighter cause you want a character who can wield any weapon and thrive with it.
Haha, I mention this at least once a video in the comments. My distaste for fighters is (mostly) for comedic effect. I'm playing one in a campaign right now. My main issue with fighters is mostly with how they function with the +10/-10 critical system of Pathfinder. Granting a permanent +2 to all attack rolls compared to other classes effectively allows them to critically strike at least 20% more often. Rage bonuses and Ki Spells struggle to compare to consistently dealing double damage on attacks thanks to critical hits.
I think the Antipaladin 1st level reaction feat should be switched with the Tyrant one. You damage yourself but get to give persistent dmg, while the lower risk Tyrant gets a small damage buff.
Ranged reprisal applies to thrown weapons. So if for example you were level 3, you could have a returning trident or spear and use blade ally to apply returning, since thrown is 20ft anyway youre not loosing out on that much when considering positioning.
I feel like you were overly critical of some things in this video. Shield ally is pretty fantastic for any shield user, +2 hardness AND 50% increase in HP and BT makes shields far more survivable meaning you can get a lot more benefit from them. Ranged reprisal allows you to get far more benefit from the Paladins reaction. It's very easy for enemies to position themselves 5 feet out of your reach when attacking an ally but not if you have RR, I've had so many turns where I would have been able to get an extra hit in if only I could reach. Also, anyone with a throwable deific weapon like a javelin or light hammer loves this feat. I don't think you're wrong about the antipaladin though lol it sucks
exactly my thoughts and in addition if you have blade ally you can choos returning as the bonus rune and it comes back to you after you hurled it as a reaction.
Completely agree, and really feel like he makes surface-level evaluations on the spirit allies, yes the shield is a small bonus, yes the blade gives a minor property and critical spec, but steed being the best pick? Yes it's nice on the short term but after some levels it'll be a pretty underwhelming addition, and you have to take feats that could better be spent elsewhere to make it stronger, and even then it still is pretty much a standard companion that's gonna stay a steed most of the time.
Honestly, Ranged Reprisal is way better than you gave it credit for, and while I agree that the ranged weapon builds would prefer to have more than 15' to work with it's probably for the best that they can't Ranged Reprisal from a long distance. That would just wind up being Attack of Opportunity But Better In Most Circumstances. Why is it so good? Well, I can personally attest as a GM with a Paladin in my players' party that I can't even count the number of times I've gone "The enemy is juuust too far out of your reach to--" to have the player smugly respond "Ranged Reprisal." It has accounted for sooo many attacks that the paladin would've otherwise missed out on, it seriously improves their battlefield presence.
Man, I hope you get a chance to revisit this class. I can understand why you feel the way you do about the class and feats, but I think a large part of the dissatisfaction is due to how the class plays. Champion is about setup and payoff, more than probably any other class in the system. And I believe some of that extends to the feats as well. It's hard, in my opinion, to see the value in some of the Champion's feats and features until you're playing it and trying your damndest to keep your party alive For example, Shield Ally and Blade Ally are both really good. Especially compared to Steed Ally. An extra 2 damage reduction on shield block? 50% more damage before my shield breaks? Sure, it's not "fun", but I'll be damned if it isn't really useful. Blade ally, even without the support feats is really good. Keep shifting on your weapon in case you come across something resistant to your normal damage type, or switch to ghost touch if you know it's going to be useful. Add on the later feats (Smite Evil, Radiant Blade Spirit), and it becomes a primo choice for damage. Ranged Reprisal is *really* good if you have a reach weapon. If an enemy is out of your reach during Retributive Strike, you lose out on half of your reaction's effect, which is painful when the reaction is the main defining feature of your class/subclass. With Ranged Reprisal and a reach weapon, you get the full benefit of your reaction 100% of the time. It's a huge upgrade. Divine Grace sounds nice on paper, but it's a reaction. The (good) Champion's main shtick is using their reaction to defend their party, so having something else compete for your reaction, especially something that only helps you, really bumps this feat down in terms of usefulness. The oaths are... a complete wash, I'll give you that. 2nd level is the Archetype dedication level for Champions lol Aura of Courage is very good, I agree there. But Aura of Despair is not as good as it sounds. Remember that Demoralize is an Intimidation check vs a Will DC, so the -1 to saving throws against fear doesn't apply here. The semi-permanent frightened 1 is still really good, but you're not getting any benefit from the first half of that feat unless you have a caster ally who is casting fear Anyways.... on to part 2 :D
Edit: I just read the actual ability and it does work to the effect you said, but not the way and reason you said it. It is nice ^^ For the 'oath of vengeance' You cant do it on someone who attacks your ally just because they are attacking. It says Inherently evil action. If the angel is defending its home or fighting a justifiable and noble war. That isn't inherently evil or paladins would lose their powers every time they were in a fight.
Doesn't it say in the errata that you get a new focus ability you also get an additional focus point up to max of 3. the line at the end of the abilities is just redundancy.
I think the AntiPaladin's reaction should have been d4s to you and d8s to the triggering enemy. That's all I have to say about that -- and that I think that Antipaladin is a dumb name to actually include in the rulebook.
Maybe I'm too in love with dnd paladins, but its dissapointing how much of the champion is either passive or enemy dependent. They have their divine ally and their special reactions..... The rest just sounds kind of boring, regardless of how good or not it is.
By level 17, Orc Ferocity may be the best ancestry feat line in the game. You stay up, get temp HP, can use it once per hour, and you can attack after using it. And, if you somehow manage to take an enemy to 0 HP, you don't count that usage of Orc Ferocity. All that is to say, the level 19 focus spell for Champions is crap.
Not fixing Diety's Domain is horrible. I just don't get the point of not allowing you an extra focus. It makes the Champion boring to play without extra focus
Dang, who knew that orcs could make a viable champion as an ancestry/race choice. Not a Pathfinder or D&D player yet, but it seems like orcs in Pathfinder 2e have more versatility than they do in D&D. Eventually someone should make a system that combines D&D 5e with Pathfinder 2e. Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses and a system that combines the strengths of both would be good to see.
i'd say homebrew the oaths to do what you described as a plee to your deity for the insight on the subject of each other as written. i'd do that honestly.
i will say evil blade ally lets you take fearsome rune which is slightly more useful than all the others. still really only useful for an intimidate build
The reason deity's domain doesn't give you a focus point is because you get a focus point from being a champion. Also, no other 1st level feat in the GAME gives you an expanded pool, it's only higher level feats that can expand it. At least that is my observation, and what seems to be the intent/gamedesign idea behind it.
This is why the newer D&D 5e races often have a racial feature that is set to X per day based on your proficiency bonus (starting at 2, ending up at 6 by the time you've reached level 17)
The thing with Mercy is that by itself it's kinda crap, but there are later feats that improve it a great deal. Being able to counter afflictions as a single action would be very powerful, and being able to raise the dead as a single action (even given the time limit) would be pretty broken.
The best reason to Play a Champion is to be a Liberator of Arazni and not be able to cast any good or evil spells. But also getting to worship the best Diety in all of Pathfinder.
I'm kind of confused by this video. The video title says part 1, but the description says part two. I'm very interested in learning about this class, as I haven't played PF2E before, and this is the type of class I'd normally gravitate towards. But I don't want to miss important info. Can someone point me in the correct direction?
Blade Ally- shifting rune: Choose orc weapon familiarity (makes martial weapons simple), Get approval from GM for a diety that uses the Orc Knuckle Dagger as a favored weapon (very reasonable request), Deific Weapon then makes the orc knuckle dagger a d8. Once you get a magical weapon, switch to that weapon and shift it into your orc knuckle dagger. Now you have d8 with magical effect and specialization. Legit?
CRB 451: "Weapons and effects keyed to a particular alignment can deal chaotic, evil, good, or lawful damage. These damage types apply only to creatures that have the opposing alignment trait."
@@marcincaputa1710 True Neutral is immune to all alignment damage since it doesn't oppose any of them. It's a pretty sneaky little bonus to the alignment.
Orc Ferocity is still limited by Massive Damage, so it's not exactly infinitely better than Hero's Defiance. Much better, but not exactly infinitely better.
Have you heard of our Lord and Savior Triune? I'm sure the Pact Worlds will bless you from the distant post gap future if you prayed to the 'right' algorithm.
@@Nonat1s pretty much. Three ascended artifical intillgences became Triune the all code now existing in a type of Trinitarian existence. They also are responsible for the provision of Drift travel technology that makes the setting possible.
i don't agree about Aura of Cuarage and Divine Health is good, just give me straight up immunity. i as it is now i don't feel like i'm playing a Paladin, it feels like i'm playing a fighter with bravory and warry high con but still is just paper
You mentioned that Champions are the only ones that get Legendary in armor/defense. That's not 100% true. Monks also get legendary for their unarmored defense.
27:43 Quick Block & Divine Reflexes: Allow us to introduce ourselves. Jokes aside Champion on it's own is a faulty class my 2 main problem with it is. Prerequisite limitations: 76 of the 90 class feat have a Prerequisite making the class less built flexible. & Class Feat Investment: you have to waste a class feat on a okay to bad feat so u can upgarde it with a another class feat down the line (Mercy is a good exemple). there is also the oath feats but that a smaller gripe. But i still like concept builting champions and my shield only champion is still mine favorite concept built. Also archetypes can help with the problems I just stated. Also any reason you skip Everstand Stance & Everstand Strike just curious and there is a 1st level champion feat called Splinter Faith in Gods & Magic.
Damn! I had never counted, but over 75 feats requiring prerequisites is BRUTAL. But I agree. Champions are still REALLY cool and fun to play. I just wish their build options were a bit more versatile. Also, I had no clue that God's and Magic or the Character Guide added any class feats! I'll probably make a video WAY in the future after I've covered every class's CRB and APG features. In that video I'll go over all of the new feats added in the other supplements for each class in one big go.
@@Nonat1s Ah i see yes besides the rulebooks and Lost Omens the Adventures and Adventure Paths also come with extra and unique stuff (monster, feats, equipment, backgrounds & etc.) the best way to see this is on Archives of Nethys and going to sources or in this case if you go to class and go to class feats in each class you can find the complete class feat list.
@Nonat1s Could you change the name and add a part number to the title of the other video. This one is called part one but you say the other video is part one.
love 5e paladins. As a 5e player looking at switching to p2e, the champion feels like a bit of a disappointment by comparison. Especially looking at Conquest Paladin vs. LE Champion.
So normally I get a chuckle out of the the pleas for subs and likes and whatnot, but they're getting intrusively long and obnoxious. Otherwise, please keep up the content, I love the channel! :D
vengeful oath, used like you describe would result in a HUGE philosophical debate at my table. It states you need to witness the creature commit an evil act or harm the innocent. I mean if you see someone robbing someone or beating the servants, sure. But in a battle scenario? Is your partymember innocent? is striking your foe and inherintly evil act? I'm not sure I'd allow it to be used like that. Otherwise a Paladin is CONSTANTLY going against their oath and shouldn't be a paladin anymore right?
Like many of the other comments I feel you may have been too hard on the Champion. Having played a champion there is a lot more nuance there than it seems at face value. For example my deity has the bastard sword so the shifting ability on weapons means it can give me reach (2 handed weapons) when I need it. I still respect your opinion though (love your videos) and it's worth a like.
what do you MEAN the Blade Ally doesn't do much? If you use a Hammer and that 's a favored weapon of a Deity, then you can pull a Thor, THROW your weapon and call it back WHENEVER!!!!
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![[OLD] EVEN MORE PATHFINDER 2E ORACLE MYSTERIES - Part 2](/img/n.gif)
Thanks for watching, yall! I hope people don't get the wrong idea from me here. I do NOT think the Champion is a bad class. Do I think it's the worst class in the system? Yes, I do, but that does not mean it's bad. I just prefer the others to this one and think this has some serious issues that need tweaking. The champion still has it's own amazing synergies with itself and especially with a ton of archetypes. I hope you'll excuse my whining in this video. I just really wanted to get my thoughts and opinions on the class out there.
Hey. Is it for fun and laughs that the actual part 1 has no part number and part 2 has part 1 in the title. I assume it is since it seems that part 3 has part 2 in it's name.
A year later Id love to see if your opinions have changed on some of this at this point.
Honestly so many aspects of Champions from the Oaths, to the boring Feats, to the lack of tasty smites, to the focus points not explicitly included, to the unexciting divine allies, to the reactions and shield block taking up the same space, to the requirement of alignments and tenets, altogether make the Champion a pretty upsetting and disappointing Class. And like, it’s technically a pretty good class! Actually mechanically subtly pretty fantastic, just wow there’s so much that could use a rework to feel more wild and expressive.
I can ensure sooooo many people moving from 5E to PF2E will take a look at the Champion and grimace with disappointment despite being technically decently engineered.
5:30 I disagree that Steed Ally is far and above the best choice. Unlike other animal companions, your steed will probably start off Large, which means it'll be difficult to use and maneuver in confined areas. The other two options don't have that limitation, and Shield Ally in particular will always be useful, no matter what's the situation.
Shield Ally with a Sturdy Shield and everstand stance has soooo much hardness (and HP)
Not to mention that the main point of the steed is to be mounted during combat, which is really only an advantage in wide open areas. If you don't do much travelling, then the steed ally is pretty useless. The blade ally, meanwhile, gives you useful options - I would probably leave my weapon on ghost touch by default, just in case.
I haven’t seen it for myself, but I’ve heard really good things about the Liberator’s reaction. Allowing someone to move away from the enemy after the enemy’s first attack often means that if the enemy wants to attack them again they’ll have to waste an action just to step up. Really good way of pseudo-stunning foes frequently.
"Why is this only for paladins?!"
Redeemers would be more about trying to figure out why that bad guy is doing that and fixing the problem
Liberators would be more focused on getting the victim into a better situation.
Paladin is the one Good Champion whose main focus would be to purge the perpetrator in holy fire.
Re: Ranged Reprisal - I totally agree that this is lame for ranged paladins, but I recently played in a high level game as a paladin with this and a reach weapon and I got a TON of use out of it. It's safe to say that I dealt out and prevented HUNDREDS of extra damage because of this feat.
Though I'd argue a smidge that it shouldn't NEED a feat to use with a reach weapon.
@@aquamarinerose5405 You don't. The Retributive Strike ability triggers when you are within 15 feet of the enemy and your ally when the enemy damages your ally, and if they are within your reach, you can make a strike against it. They can be 10 feet away from you and get hit with this reaction if you're using a reach weapon. This ability extends your effective reach to 15 feet.
I'm planning to use this with a follower of Arqueros whose deific weapon is the spear. Usually they'd use it as a melee weapon. But if necessary they'd throw it at someone.
Ranged reprisal works when you have a returning weapon ally. You are fighting someone and, an ally and enemy within 15 feet fighting. Your Ally is hit and you throw your weapon at their attacker with ranged retribution, it returns to you. You continue fighting your opponent and your Ally is now buffed as well.
Here is a like and comment just for the epic poem at the end :D
Yes!!! It was worth it!! The algorithm thanks you ♥
The CE champion reaction could be fixed by just rolling 2d6 and assigning one to you and one to your enemy. As you get more dice you just roll in one big pool and assign as you wish. It would be a great way to differentiate from the LE without going crazy on the damage advantage.
I like that idea
I don't know man... I haven't played a champion yet but some of the feats you describe as bad or horrible sound really great or at least really useful to me. As many game designers have stated: Once you get past the complexity of Tic Tac Toe or Chess, there is no objective judgement of game balance. Game balance in complex games is always highly subjective.
I agree with this 100%. In such a subjective genre as TTRPGs, it will be impossible to ever find perfect balance in any game that will appear balanced to all of it's players. Especially in a game as luck-dependant as D&D or Pathfinder.
Honestly, though, it's what makes playing and analyzing these systems so fun and leads to really interesting discussion. What may seem useless and bad to one person might be incredible and great to another. I love talking about this stuff lol.
@@Nonat1s Good point. Yeah I love talking about this stuff too haha :) Thanks for the response and keep up the great work!
My favorite instance of this is how he harps on the press trait for fighters while completely ignoring the fact that because their weapon proficiency is higher than any other class they've got an extra +2 to hit to begin with.
I would suggest that the reason Vengeful Oath is Paladin only is that Paladins are the only ones who are about punishing evil actions. Liberators are about ensuring people's freedom, while Redeemers are about helping people no longer be evil, but Paladins are about stomping evil out. So thematically, it kind of only really works for the Paladin.
Oof... damn nonat, you wound me haha
This was way more brutal than I expected, and I gotta say, I feel like you're misrepresenting how good the champion is.
In what ways? I have several friends who are new to the system and they want to play Champions. I’d like to have some positives for them!
@@akselraya3477 I can only speak to the good aligned champions, so keep that in mind, but champions are king of defense. Not just personal (because monks can get really close) but for the party.
If they can stay as close to 15 feet to all their party and enemies as possible (easier said than done) they'll be able to regularly provide 2+Level damage reduction and something else. If they have a shield, they can shield block allies, especially allies who can't do that (2-handing, not proficient, etc).
More than that, because they're packing charisma, they can be a good party face. Not as optimal as a sorcerer or bard, sure, but only just behind them.
Nonat mentions that the shield ally isn't amazing because it only increases hardness by 2, but he forgets that it also increases the HP of shields meaning you can use them for longer. Take into account that the champions have amazing AC to start, and their shields will rarely get hit, and when they do, will last longer. He also forgets that the blade ally's rune powers are free, meaning they can have 4, while everyone has only 3, and gain access to the weapon critical specializations
Basically, the way I see it, champions focus their efforts on responding to other characters' actions. They have many feats that grant them extra reactions (up to 3 total), and are probably optimally played such that they spend their actions setting up shield blocks, or retributive strikes, or at higher levels, both. When you get Shield of Reckoning at 10th level, you can combine 2 of these reactions into 1, but still likely having more left over.
I once had the stars align and managed to get off 4 reactions in a round: Quick Block, Champion's Reaction, and then a Shield of Reckoning for another reaction of each. And this was at level 14. Idk of any other class that can have that much control over the battlefield when it's not their turn.
This is also not considering that lay on hands boosts the AC of their allies as well as providing infinite (but slow) healing, and champions are the ultimate support class. Slap on a bard or sorcerer multiclass archetype on there and no one can compare to you when it comes to protection/support
EDIT:
credit where credit is due though, and it's true that the champion, especially in early levels, is EXTREMELY reaction and feat starved. It's the type of class that you need to come in with a build already in mind, and hyper focus on that
the champion is shit. objectively.
@@andrewwahba5006 I'm with you. The Champion is an incredible tank, especially with their abilities that focus on protecting allies.
I also agree that the Shield Ally is actually extremely good. In fact, I think that it may be the best of the three. The increased survivability for your shield is something that, I have seen in actual gameplay, is huge. And the related feats are top tier.
The Champion is designed from the ground up as a tank and it is unsurpassed at that role.
In defense of the Oath feats: Paizo has more than once released an AP where the campaign's theme pretty much guaranteed you would run repeatedly into one of those classes of enemies over and over again. Examples: Carrion Crown, Strange Aeons, Wrath of the Righteous, and Tyrant's Grasp. At that point, it basically becomes almost as good as having 1st Ed's Favored Enemy against the theme monster of the campaign. But they should just have written it as one feat.
I have a player that is a champion level 14 with Ranger archetype. She's a great tank and have killed many enemies as a reaction.
Without free archetype variation?
@@TJVargasS yeah. She started before Free Archetype was published
excited for the rambles. i can read the core rulebook whenever but i wanna hear what you have to say
-Blade ally. I think it is usefull, because it is versitile. Disrupting, ghost touch, returning, shifting. Those are things that when they are needed they are rly usefull. Shiting is just good for blind fights, if enemy have resistance to specific dmg type of your weapon you can just change it.
- Shield Ally is Good if you want to play as a tank IMO
- Ranger Reprisal - Its not for archers but more for throwing weapons I think,
- Oaths allowing you to switch one of them to another within a day is a little to good for those bonuses, maybe once a week you can change to other oath with no teacher or time or money required
-Lightlsayer, it should be exacly as other oaths IMO
- Mercy as free action or reation is resonable
- Litany against wrath shoultn't be good dmg but radiant for example.
I feel like shifting is a very underappreciated rune. Since you can apply it to any weapon on daily prep you can put it on any magic weapons you have. Not only does it give you the versatility (walking into a guard camp with an inconspicuous whip than turning into a sword) you can also use it to dramatically increase your damage.
In the middle of combat you can spend two actions: one to switch your dagger to a bastard sword and one to grip the bastard sword with two-hands.
Now for the rest of combat you have just increased your damage from 1d4 to 1d12.
A Dwarf Half-Orc Champion Redeemer going all-in on shield/hardness options, Everstand Stance and picking up the golem grafter archetype:
Toughness, Mountain's Stoutness, Golem Grafter to get an extra +60 HP at level 20 as well as death saves of 6+dying instead of 10+dying.
Hardness up the wazoo for your Sturdy Shield soaking up a metric fuckton of damage.
Orc Ferocity feat chain, Battle Medic and Lay on Hands.
You'll be REALLY hard to take down.
One problem as far as i'm aware (or homebrew) Half-Human Heritages can only be taken by humans so no Dwarf Half-Orc.
@@biotechhazard2742 There is an optional rule in the CRB that suggests Half-Orc and Half-Elf be versatile heritages just like Tiefling, Aasimar and the like.
If your DM doesn't allow this you can just grab Adopted Ancestry. Delays things a bit (Orc Ferocity being a level 1 feat) but you still have access to it all.
This is a dope build. If I get a chance to come back around to Champion, I'd love to make this ultimate tank.
@@MrDylan2125 Another option is to drop Dwarf ancestry (which gives a penalty to Charisma) and go Half-Orc or Orc. Start with 14 Charisma. Your bread and butter turn would be: Stride, Demoralize, Everstand Strike. Adding a little debuff action to your tanky build can be pretty nice.
@@biotechhazard2742 no you are wrong. It says directly that other races can take them as well in the sidebar
About the oaths feats involving killing certains creatures, I believe that they are make to certains campaings based on these creatures. In campaings not based in kill demons you could just pick another feat for exemple.
English is not my language but I hope you all can understand what I wanted to say.
Oh hell yes, I really wish your suggestion for the Oath feats was how it worked. I wanted to pick Fiendsbane oath for my Paladin because early on we fought some devils, but I just couldn't justify it because I couldn't be sure what we would fight later. Being able to swap it would have made the choice so much easier.
I also totally agree about Desperate Prayer and Deity's Domain - there are feats like Cackle that give a focus spell significantly better than most domain spells AND give a focus point, but Champions are shit outa luck. I suppose Desperate Prayer's function could be useful in a situation where you have a maxed focus pool and need to use lay on hands 4 times in one fight, but it would be way more consistent and balanced to tack on a focus point to Deity's Domain instead.
Looking at Iron Repurcussions... I cannot understand WHAT they were thinking with the Antipaladin and his self harm when the Tyrant has the option to harm the enemy or force it to drop prone... And as a DM, I would likely rule that 99% of monsters would refuse to kneel the first time around, making for guaranteed amazing damage!
Not sure if it's been said or not, but with blade ally and returning, could you not use that with ranged reprisal? That would give you extra chances to make retributive strike.
I feel Champion is one of those classes primed for taking archetype early since the lvl 2/4 feats aren't as good as other classes, Rogue for instance, by comparison. I built a full Orc Paladin of Ragathiel with blade ally. Took Sorcerer archetype basically to get the Shield cantrip so I can wield 2 handed, shifting bastard sword. I love it because the shifting is great flexibility based on the foe faced (ooze? its a bludgeoning weapon. Zombie? it's a slashing weapon). Took Die Hard to offset the extra Wounded level that can occur after my Orc ferocity. Also, whenever I've played the other party members do all they can to keep me up an going but the LOH to self heal makes this guy pretty hard to kill.
I played a lvl 7 Champion in a one shot with ranged reprisal and it was really useful for moving around the battle in places like hallways when ambushed. It was also very helpful in the boss fight to help give the rogue flanking bonuses while still giving both all of our actions.
I'm playing both a dnd 5e Paladin and a 2e Champion. And I have to say I really hated playing Champion in 2e. In combat, while literally everyone else was doing really cool shit with abilities and feats, I was stuck constantly raising my shield, smiting evil and attacking. Or I would use lay on hands when needed.
Meanwhile, in 5e, I can summon a horse to ride, smite, cast spells, heal, tank damage, or support
The feats for paladin in general just kinda suck, especially at low levels.
The versatility of the paladin in Dnd 5e is just better. And yes, I do miss the mega damage and cool versions of smites.
Personally I think one thing that could round out the champion is innate focus pool scaling, since they do have so many focus dependent options.
2:35 "Check out part one"
Me "CHAMPION CLASS GUIDE (Part 1) - PATHFINDER SECOND EDITION" This IS PART ONE!??
Ranged reprisal is make to a Champion with blade ally and a throw weapon, like a dagger user with returning rune (1d6 if deity weapon). Not a garbage like you think, maybe is better open your mind to another types of builds.
There's tons of synergy like this within the Champion. Gotta keep an open mind to make the most of this amazing class.
You can also use it to hit enemies that are 15 feet above or below you, due to terrain or because of flight, which you would not necessarily be able to reach with a basic move.
It's been quite a few videos now where you've made your distaste for the fighter clear and I'd like to add my 2 cents to the discussion.
Fighters are just that, fighters, all their strength comes from their skill with their weapons, shields, etc. Unlike other martial classes they don't get to fly into a rage that empowers them to supernatural levels, they don't get to become a literal angel and smite evil, they don't get to harness their ki and perfect their own bodies, etc. I find it odd that the proficiencies of fighters bug you so much when that's really all fighters get to distinguish themselves from the other martial classes. You don't play a fighter because they're "stronger" than other martial classes, you play a fighter cause you want a character who can wield any weapon and thrive with it.
Haha, I mention this at least once a video in the comments. My distaste for fighters is (mostly) for comedic effect. I'm playing one in a campaign right now.
My main issue with fighters is mostly with how they function with the +10/-10 critical system of Pathfinder. Granting a permanent +2 to all attack rolls compared to other classes effectively allows them to critically strike at least 20% more often. Rage bonuses and Ki Spells struggle to compare to consistently dealing double damage on attacks thanks to critical hits.
@@Nonat1s Hmm, I feel ya.
I think the Antipaladin 1st level reaction feat should be switched with the Tyrant one. You damage yourself but get to give persistent dmg, while the lower risk Tyrant gets a small damage buff.
Ranged reprisal applies to thrown weapons. So if for example you were level 3, you could have a returning trident or spear and use blade ally to apply returning, since thrown is 20ft anyway youre not loosing out on that much when considering positioning.
I feel like you were overly critical of some things in this video. Shield ally is pretty fantastic for any shield user, +2 hardness AND 50% increase in HP and BT makes shields far more survivable meaning you can get a lot more benefit from them.
Ranged reprisal allows you to get far more benefit from the Paladins reaction. It's very easy for enemies to position themselves 5 feet out of your reach when attacking an ally but not if you have RR, I've had so many turns where I would have been able to get an extra hit in if only I could reach. Also, anyone with a throwable deific weapon like a javelin or light hammer loves this feat.
I don't think you're wrong about the antipaladin though lol it sucks
exactly my thoughts and in addition if you have blade ally you can choos returning as the bonus rune and it comes back to you after you hurled it as a reaction.
Completely agree, and really feel like he makes surface-level evaluations on the spirit allies, yes the shield is a small bonus, yes the blade gives a minor property and critical spec, but steed being the best pick? Yes it's nice on the short term but after some levels it'll be a pretty underwhelming addition, and you have to take feats that could better be spent elsewhere to make it stronger, and even then it still is pretty much a standard companion that's gonna stay a steed most of the time.
Honestly, Ranged Reprisal is way better than you gave it credit for, and while I agree that the ranged weapon builds would prefer to have more than 15' to work with it's probably for the best that they can't Ranged Reprisal from a long distance. That would just wind up being Attack of Opportunity But Better In Most Circumstances.
Why is it so good? Well, I can personally attest as a GM with a Paladin in my players' party that I can't even count the number of times I've gone "The enemy is juuust too far out of your reach to--" to have the player smugly respond "Ranged Reprisal." It has accounted for sooo many attacks that the paladin would've otherwise missed out on, it seriously improves their battlefield presence.
Deific weapon's main appeal is that you get access to uncommon weapons, not its increase to damage die for simple weapons.
Man, I hope you get a chance to revisit this class. I can understand why you feel the way you do about the class and feats, but I think a large part of the dissatisfaction is due to how the class plays. Champion is about setup and payoff, more than probably any other class in the system. And I believe some of that extends to the feats as well. It's hard, in my opinion, to see the value in some of the Champion's feats and features until you're playing it and trying your damndest to keep your party alive
For example, Shield Ally and Blade Ally are both really good. Especially compared to Steed Ally. An extra 2 damage reduction on shield block? 50% more damage before my shield breaks? Sure, it's not "fun", but I'll be damned if it isn't really useful. Blade ally, even without the support feats is really good. Keep shifting on your weapon in case you come across something resistant to your normal damage type, or switch to ghost touch if you know it's going to be useful. Add on the later feats (Smite Evil, Radiant Blade Spirit), and it becomes a primo choice for damage.
Ranged Reprisal is *really* good if you have a reach weapon. If an enemy is out of your reach during Retributive Strike, you lose out on half of your reaction's effect, which is painful when the reaction is the main defining feature of your class/subclass. With Ranged Reprisal and a reach weapon, you get the full benefit of your reaction 100% of the time. It's a huge upgrade.
Divine Grace sounds nice on paper, but it's a reaction. The (good) Champion's main shtick is using their reaction to defend their party, so having something else compete for your reaction, especially something that only helps you, really bumps this feat down in terms of usefulness.
The oaths are... a complete wash, I'll give you that. 2nd level is the Archetype dedication level for Champions lol
Aura of Courage is very good, I agree there. But Aura of Despair is not as good as it sounds. Remember that Demoralize is an Intimidation check vs a Will DC, so the -1 to saving throws against fear doesn't apply here. The semi-permanent frightened 1 is still really good, but you're not getting any benefit from the first half of that feat unless you have a caster ally who is casting fear
Anyways.... on to part 2 :D
Scalies, not Furries
Edit: I just read the actual ability and it does work to the effect you said, but not the way and reason you said it. It is nice ^^
For the 'oath of vengeance'
You cant do it on someone who attacks your ally just because they are attacking.
It says Inherently evil action.
If the angel is defending its home or fighting a justifiable and noble war.
That isn't inherently evil or paladins would lose their powers every time they were in a fight.
Doesn't it say in the errata that you get a new focus ability you also get an additional focus point up to max of 3. the line at the end of the abilities is just redundancy.
I didn't see the video about deity focus spells? Was it taken down?
I think the AntiPaladin's reaction should have been d4s to you and d8s to the triggering enemy. That's all I have to say about that -- and that I think that Antipaladin is a dumb name to actually include in the rulebook.
Consistent Persistent is my new band name.
Maybe I'm too in love with dnd paladins, but its dissapointing how much of the champion is either passive or enemy dependent. They have their divine ally and their special reactions..... The rest just sounds kind of boring, regardless of how good or not it is.
By level 17, Orc Ferocity may be the best ancestry feat line in the game. You stay up, get temp HP, can use it once per hour, and you can attack after using it. And, if you somehow manage to take an enemy to 0 HP, you don't count that usage of Orc Ferocity.
All that is to say, the level 19 focus spell for Champions is crap.
Not fixing Diety's Domain is horrible. I just don't get the point of not allowing you an extra focus. It makes the Champion boring to play without extra focus
Dang, who knew that orcs could make a viable champion as an ancestry/race choice. Not a Pathfinder or D&D player yet, but it seems like orcs in Pathfinder 2e have more versatility than they do in D&D.
Eventually someone should make a system that combines D&D 5e with Pathfinder 2e. Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses and a system that combines the strengths of both would be good to see.
That’s something I’ve been advocating for as a potential D&D 5.5E or D&D 6E. I’m primarily a D&D 5E fan but I’ve been looking into Pathfinder 2E
i'd say homebrew the oaths to do what you described as a plee to your deity for the insight on the subject of each other as written. i'd do that honestly.
If tyrant and antipaladin had their reaction boosts swapped... maybe
this man's canines are terrifying
i will say evil blade ally lets you take fearsome rune which is slightly more useful than all the others. still really only useful for an intimidate build
Thank you, its been helpful ☺
The reason deity's domain doesn't give you a focus point is because you get a focus point from being a champion. Also, no other 1st level feat in the GAME gives you an expanded pool, it's only higher level feats that can expand it. At least that is my observation, and what seems to be the intent/gamedesign idea behind it.
It's funny how the orcs in the beastiary can use their orc ferocity more than once per day but not the player. Look up ferocity for monsters...
This is why the newer D&D 5e races often have a racial feature that is set to X per day based on your proficiency bonus (starting at 2, ending up at 6 by the time you've reached level 17)
The thing with Mercy is that by itself it's kinda crap, but there are later feats that improve it a great deal. Being able to counter afflictions as a single action would be very powerful, and being able to raise the dead as a single action (even given the time limit) would be pretty broken.
The best reason to Play a Champion is to be a Liberator of Arazni and not be able to cast any good or evil spells. But also getting to worship the best Diety in all of Pathfinder.
I feel like it's not really an oath or a tenet if you only uphold it for a day, though... Maybe a week?
I'm kind of confused by this video. The video title says part 1, but the description says part two. I'm very interested in learning about this class, as I haven't played PF2E before, and this is the type of class I'd normally gravitate towards. But I don't want to miss important info. Can someone point me in the correct direction?
This is technically part 2 despite the title. Part 1 is the video going over the Causes.
Blade Ally- shifting rune: Choose orc weapon familiarity (makes martial weapons simple), Get approval from GM for a diety that uses the Orc Knuckle Dagger as a favored weapon (very reasonable request), Deific Weapon then makes the orc knuckle dagger a d8. Once you get a magical weapon, switch to that weapon and shift it into your orc knuckle dagger. Now you have d8 with magical effect and specialization. Legit?
since when creatures are immune to good dmg ?
CRB 451: "Weapons and effects keyed to a particular alignment can deal chaotic, evil, good, or lawful damage. These damage types apply only to creatures that have the opposing alignment trait."
@@Nonat1s is true neutral immune for them ? or pick one on preperation ?
@@marcincaputa1710 True Neutral is immune to all alignment damage since it doesn't oppose any of them. It's a pretty sneaky little bonus to the alignment.
Persistent ends up being 3.0-3.3x on average assuming 15 Flat DC
Champion of Lubaiko - Deific Longspear 😆
Orc Ferocity is still limited by Massive Damage, so it's not exactly infinitely better than Hero's Defiance. Much better, but not exactly infinitely better.
why isnt accelerating touch a metamagic but mercy is?
Have you heard of our Lord and Savior Triune? I'm sure the Pact Worlds will bless you from the distant post gap future if you prayed to the 'right' algorithm.
Yo, I just looked into that. Is that a Starfinder deity that is literally just an A.I???
@@Nonat1s pretty much. Three ascended artifical intillgences became Triune the all code now existing in a type of Trinitarian existence. They also are responsible for the provision of Drift travel technology that makes the setting possible.
im comfused. its NAMED part 1 but you are referng to a difrent part 1? bad formating my man
The card didn't pop up for the cleric/paladin domain videos.
Lol intro was fire.
link to critbox?
I really want to play a champion/paladin now! I have never played one before. 😁
They are super awesome. Mine just died saving an ally, but I enjoyed every minute playing him.
i don't agree about Aura of Cuarage and Divine Health is good, just give me straight up immunity. i as it is now i don't feel like i'm playing a Paladin, it feels like i'm playing a fighter with bravory and warry high con but still is just paper
You mentioned that Champions are the only ones that get Legendary in armor/defense. That's not 100% true. Monks also get legendary for their unarmored defense.
Just play a fighter with the champion archetype, it’s way better.
27:43 Quick Block & Divine Reflexes: Allow us to introduce ourselves.
Jokes aside Champion on it's own is a faulty class my 2 main problem with it is.
Prerequisite limitations: 76 of the 90 class feat have a Prerequisite making the class less built flexible. & Class Feat Investment: you have to waste a class feat on a okay to bad feat so u can upgarde it with a another class feat down the line (Mercy is a good exemple).
there is also the oath feats but that a smaller gripe. But i still like concept builting champions and my shield only champion is still mine favorite concept built. Also archetypes can help with the problems I just stated. Also any reason you skip Everstand Stance & Everstand Strike just curious and there is a 1st level champion feat called Splinter Faith in Gods & Magic.
Damn! I had never counted, but over 75 feats requiring prerequisites is BRUTAL. But I agree. Champions are still REALLY cool and fun to play. I just wish their build options were a bit more versatile.
Also, I had no clue that God's and Magic or the Character Guide added any class feats! I'll probably make a video WAY in the future after I've covered every class's CRB and APG features. In that video I'll go over all of the new feats added in the other supplements for each class in one big go.
@@Nonat1s Ah i see yes besides the rulebooks and Lost Omens the Adventures and Adventure Paths also come with extra and unique stuff (monster, feats, equipment, backgrounds & etc.) the best way to see this is on Archives of Nethys and going to sources or in this case if you go to class and go to class feats in each class you can find the complete class feat list.
@Nonat1s Could you change the name and add a part number to the title of the other video. This one is called part one but you say the other video is part one.
19:24 nice pic XD
I am the masses, and I saw this video
You say the shield ally isn't as good but my player with a lesser sturdy shield, everstand stance, and shield ally would like to disagree. :P
You should keep all your rants saved for a rant compilation video xD
love 5e paladins. As a 5e player looking at switching to p2e, the champion feels like a bit of a disappointment by comparison. Especially looking at Conquest Paladin vs. LE Champion.
So normally I get a chuckle out of the the pleas for subs and likes and whatnot, but they're getting intrusively long and obnoxious. Otherwise, please keep up the content, I love the channel! :D
Pretty sure only the bard can get 2 focus points at level 1.
I think it's only Oracle.
Druids, human witches, bard, maybe a few more?
Great video sir!
Lol. You posted this one 1min after it posted.
@@linus4d1 shh
Nonat is like midas. You always know its gold
This is titled part 1....
I feel like you are strongly biased in this review, champion is an extreamely good defensive class, the best defender/tank in the game actually.
Should of just made it an hour long video. XD
vengeful oath, used like you describe would result in a HUGE philosophical debate at my table. It states you need to witness the creature commit an evil act or harm the innocent. I mean if you see someone robbing someone or beating the servants, sure. But in a battle scenario? Is your partymember innocent? is striking your foe and inherintly evil act? I'm not sure I'd allow it to be used like that. Otherwise a Paladin is CONSTANTLY going against their oath and shouldn't be a paladin anymore right?
just saw the "good ally" part, still a bit strange but I guess it works
Love how ypu didn't even change the intro to admit you were splitting the video. Cute outtro tho.
I feel that while most classes are on par that Champion and Alchemist are a little lacking while Fighter is a bit better than everyone else.
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Like many of the other comments I feel you may have been too hard on the Champion. Having played a champion there is a lot more nuance there than it seems at face value. For example my deity has the bastard sword so the shifting ability on weapons means it can give me reach (2 handed weapons) when I need it. I still respect your opinion though (love your videos) and it's worth a like.
Orc Champion though ;P
😌
what do you MEAN the Blade Ally doesn't do much? If you use a Hammer and that 's a favored weapon of a Deity, then you can pull a Thor, THROW your weapon and call it back WHENEVER!!!!
i fucking hate the champion. i hate that they absolutely massacred the paladin, will never play this PoS edition.
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Tyr compels you to like this video!
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I love Nonats videos, but MAN this one is full of bad hot takes on viability and flavor haha