A.B.I.torial: Melty Blood Character Designs Are Bland, And That's Perfectly Fine
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2021
- Beams are so unisex.
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#meltybloodtypelumina #tsukihime - Ігри
I tell this to everyone who jokes about Aoko “When youre one of the strongest person in your world you can wear whatever you want.”
CoughcoughLeonscapecough
@@Gamesmarts194 what
Facts
Her last arc is literally called Retroflow - Genesis Light Year. Sounds just about OP to me.
Well even if you're the weakest civilized being in the universe you can still wear whatever you want... But we tryna sell a game here my guy xD
Finally someone admitted that Aoko is peak fighting game design
What are your thoughts on this video? ua-cam.com/video/NVd-1C4vISg/v-deo.html
Are you guy's say there is no event higher?
Lol her character design screams KoF 1999
@@borthelcash6046 It was a good entry.
@@borthelcash6046 she's just Terry without gloves and a jacket.
I'm honestly a huge fan of "magic assholes who just wear normal clothes." I think it's a neat concept. Never played Melty before, but looking forward to the new game. Looks fun
There is a few player bases who sorta grew up on the that doujin fighter generation from the early to mid 2000s. Melty was one of the ones to have a success story and make it big to the arcades. But those player bases understand that aesthetic very well while enjoying what EFZ, Queen of Fighters of Big Bang Beat had to offer.
it's because Tsukihime's tone is different from Fate.
Fate is more mystichal and apotheotic than Tsukihime , and that is logical: Alaya is stronger , so you see the rising of humanity itself in the characters.
While in Tsukihime , Gaea is stronger , so even the fantastical had to blend more with the mundane.
Same, I'm excited!
That sounds like Persona
read tsukihime
No joke: I've always thought that Aoko had one of the best visual designs. Her plain attire is such a contrast to even other melty blood characters you instantly know she isn't taking anything seriously.
when she loses the round jokingly says yararettaa!!
That's why to me Yuzuriha from Under Night was that series's Aoko they maybe one of the most powerful ones fighting yet they're just there enjoying themselves.
What are your thoughts on this video? ua-cam.com/video/NVd-1C4vISg/v-deo.html
@@joshuataylor7443 He makes some great points. It seems like the new versions go for a cleaner look at the expense of personality, at least based on the arguments presented there.
Same thoughts here, but in my case it's Hazama when he first appeared in Blazblue continuum shift.
"Magic Assholes Fighting At Night"
Ah, yes, urban fantasy in a nutshell.
"But on his sixteenth birthday, this awkward normie learns his parents were actually half-demon, quarter-angel, quarter-human agents of a dying clan protecting the world from space aliens." -- those Audible ad reads, lately, I guess?
@@TJF588 this can actually be a type moon story tbh
@@TJF588 Basically Bleach
@@TJF588sounds like something from DMC, Diablo, and Darksiders
@@TJF588 this could probably be from supernatural
When I first booted MB up I chose Aoko simply because of her great design. There's something about pulling up to a fight in a white T-shirt and jeans that just resonates with the common man, I guess.
She's a free spirited world traveller; she could pick anything in her closet, as if it were her day off, and literally walk out of town with a suitcase if she felt like it. That's what's so exciting about meeting her for the first time.
she's got the hank hill drip
Indeed, what a power move of being one of the five magicians
@@michaelolaf9968 I think we've found the true identity of White-T Poison.
did the exact same thing, just looked like the most interesting to me cuz she was the most simple out of an already simple roaster
I'm surprised people can even insult Melty designs when they have the balls to release a fighting game with such normal designs
Melty character design complaints was such a manufactured controversy, I never heard any complaints about how characters looked until Lumina got more marketing momentum.
Prob bc it was super niche to overseas fans
@@MsMvsc Shut Up
@@MsMvsc Ah yes, the playing in the bathroom meme
probably because barely anyone even knew about it until then...
Sadly, astroturfing is effective.
I fuckin love Aoko's design, one of my favorites in the game. So simple yet her fighting style basically equates to "The Stars & Streets send their regards" making it make sense
and even between different versions of the same character, such as Shiki Tohno & Nanaya, you can tell which one is more of the school boy personality, and which is the more aggressive killer, almost entirely through idle stances and walk cycles
Nanaya's walk forward cycle has so much swagger like, DAMN BOY. And even if the walk back cycle is the same as Tohno's, the change in expression from wariness to cockiness is great.
What are your thoughts on this video? ua-cam.com/video/NVd-1C4vISg/v-deo.html
@@joshuataylor7443 I haven't watched yet but i probably shouldn't comment. Reason being my only experience to Tsukihime & Melty is with MBAACC, so i'm not really the best critic of yhe design changes between OG Tsuki & Tsuki Remake
@@KazanmaTheSilverWind Okay never mind.
It's kinda weird the fgc is ready to dogpile melty blood fans over visual novel characters not having bombastic designs, when the poster boy for fighting games is just a dude in a handband and sleeveless karate gi, and like a year or 2 ago we were trying to get ignorant smash only heads to stop slandering the name and design of our favorite blonde dude in jeans, sneakers, red jacket and trucker hat
Those people just want clout by picking up game that have flaw that everyone can see.
Darn, already 2 years since Terry got into Smash?
Anyway, people compared him with the Pokémon trainer but funny thing is that both were from the 90's
@@ikagura yeah 2020 makes it feel like there was a weird blank between 2019 and this year sometimes to me, so I gotta keep reminding myself lol
@Musomania27 And 2021 is almost over too 😱
Is the FGC really complaining or is it a small minority. I've never heard this complaint being that big.
Imagine being a crossover fighter for your game, being the crossover fighter for more iterations than your own game, have your story mode literally being noticed so your creator can get off their ass and make a new version of your original game. They finally get around to doing it, but due to story constraints, you can't be in it.
- Angry Sion -
What are your thoughts on this video? ua-cam.com/video/NVd-1C4vISg/v-deo.html
It honestly feels like such a wasted opportunity to not bring back the old Melty exclusive characters. My hope is that they will at least update Type Lumina to include them again in future versions.
They should've called it Tsukihime: Type Lumina. Not a melty game without the melty characters let alone the fucking protagonist, but I guess calling it melty is more recognizable because people know it for the funne pizza box bathroom tournaments. Type-Moon at it again.
Sad noises
Sion was so angry that she went to FGO.
TLDR, Melty Blood characters weren't originally made for a fighting game. This conversation was a thing BFYT(Before YT) long in the ancient ages.
Just finished the video, I loved your take on the subject. You didn't drag on Fate too much to redeem Melty/Tsukihime's qualities(Also to add, I'm actually extrememly bias to the Fate franchise for reasons mentioned in the video). The choice of the Melty score you used during your telling of the story was spot on. I've been playing Melty casually since 2002.
Now imagine 15 year old me playing Melty for the first time seeing Arcueid(All Star Waifu of mine) and how happy, cute and outgoing she was. Now imagine 17 year old me finding out exactly what happened to Arcueid when Shiki met her. This franchise is a wild ride and if you like subtle story telling with unsuspecting twist. Read/Play Tsukihime and it's branches, you won't be disappointed.
Back before the days of Ethernet we had the first flame which is the Arcade.
Seriously love your comment here hoping we get more Melty Blood games that takes place in Tsukihime 2 with playable Bartholomow and Enhance
@@tonyinfinite5174 I've been holding my breath for Altrouge for YEARS
@@KevinSkye1 Ah yes the black princess of dead apotsle ancestors wondering if she'll fight alongside primate murder
@@tonyinfinite5174 We'll just have to wait and see. Until then I'll keep my YT notifications on my brudda. See you on the other side of the glass moon
Honestly though, even WITH that subtility, the character designs do still say a bit about personalities and such. The properly, almost professionally, dressed schoolboy who happens to pack a knife and holds it up front, arm tilted and slightly bent...he's cautious but not a nervous wreck, studious and dutiful but with a dangerous side. Arceus on the other hand, looks like a happy-go-lucky wholesome school-teacher...modest but not in rags, cheerful, composed. Tiny details can indeed give us glimpses into one's personality.
Arcueid, and she doesn't even go to school at all, but otherwise you've had them both nailed in the head :3
@@Shamshiro Ah, thank you. I was just going by impressions mind you, and have never played a Melty Blood game or read any of the Visual Novel series it is based off of. I am a bit familiar with the Fate series, however, but that's a side note. I guessed the main protag was a schoolboy by how he is dressed in traditional Japanese school uniform attire and his young appearance.
What's more, I can tell that said scholar was probably forced into a rough double life that he reluctantly but dutifully accepts. But oh boy he WILL get the job done and is probably ticked that some jerk just HAD to be a punk and refuse to let people try to lead their already-difficult normal lives. And Arcueid, for her part, either is just playing a REALLY good cover, OR simply wants nothing to do with being a vampire princess and just wants to live her life, but will TOTALLY mess someone up if she has to roll up her sleeves, and she'll enjoy it from what clips I have seen on rare occasion.
@@christopherjones7023 - No biggie :3
@@christopherjones7023 if you enjoyed Fate I can reccomend the hell out of getting into tsukihime or kara no kyoukai for more amazing character designs
Ah, yes. Arceus, God of all Pokemon, my favorite Melty Blood, as well as favorite fighting game, character. What an epic concept to have a god that is a monstrous horse creature from another franchise as one of your standout protagonists and characters. Peak FGD.
Aoko design is great and all but let's be real, Neco arc is peak character design.
I love how you described Under-Night as "assholes fighting at night", and how that's come into full-play in this A.B.I.torial!
What I think people don't understand is the context for the designs. Just as you mention, the entire cast for Tsukihime, the VN that Melty is based off of, are characters that are hiding their true natures. There is a recurring mystery element to the story, and the theme of "monsters hiding in plain sight" is constantly appearing.
There's a very good reason why the characters introduced specifically in Kagetsu Tohya (the sequel) and the Melty Original characters generally have more "interesting" designs (Len, Riesbyfe, Sion, Wallachia).
Some characters *do* have "unsubdued" versions of themselves (see Archetype Earth and Powered Ciel), but these are characters you are shown *after* the initial mystery. People just don't have that initial context.
Nanaya as a character wouldn't stand out at all if Tohno did not exist as a baseline, for example.
yeah I think without context it's a bit harder to get into the design (it's still my case). It's hard to get into the "concealing" power when you're in a fighting game, altho you can still make it work.
@@Gensolink In context of Melty as a spin-off the concealing power thing works. But like any magic trick or illusion, if you can't buy into it (ironic considering the voices that can't have a VERY subjective AND limited idea of what FG designs are) then of course you will scoff at it as just whatever. Even funnier as same folks who have expressed their biased opinion will look at something else like DBFZ where the cast is more homogenous than they realize.
You nailed the point. I dont want to go through a VN just to learn the context of the character. When ABI showed original MB chars I was damn thats cool, but with current Melty trailers I just cant get hype at all. Its wierd because I freaking love anime fighters. UNIEL is still the best in terms of "bland" but working in FG type of desings for me (just look at Yuzuriha for example). Hope I will find a character that gets mo worked up to play this game, cuz so far none of them makes it.
I've always found it funny how, by being plain, Melty Blood's character designs are always a stand-out part (good or bad) because of the absolutely ridiculous state of fighting game designs. They've become either extremely cluttered or try to stand out in general by being so bombastic. There are many designs in FGs that are like this that I love, but eventually it gets to you.
Seriously, a design like Ragna's makes me want to scream sometimes.
It’s even more funny if you put it next to SNK character... _not Shun’ei, he can go to hell, even if his design is intentionally bad_
Exactly. There is room for FG designs like Melty in a world where most FGs being pushed out are at baseline pretty bombastic as is. Melty takes the sublime and subtle route where people judge the book by its cover weren't going to be rewarded for being patient enough to see through the mysteriousness of the chars and what ALL of them hide beyond the veil that they operate in.
@@James-oj6ru What's your issue with Shun'ei? Not as a ''why are you hating on this character'' thing, but legitimately? Never looked into the competitive side of XIV, but I did enjoy playing as him, his design is definitely an odd one, but I think the only ''Why?'' part of his design for me is the arm straps, it's kinda odd unless they just end at where the gloves start; Is it him being marketed as the new protag or just his general personality/lack of?
I usually just ended up using his Kung-Fu outfit after it came out, but I'm kinda curious.
Um @@elivcdxv1852?…. It’s a running gag at this point to hate on Shun’ei and everyone KNOWS THAT, as for reasons…
mine is his personality is or lack there is… is lack there is, but in the manga, he’s a pumpkin bum, he doesn’t know what a grill is, his costume is that of him seeing what is trendy for modern people and wearing it, he’s INTENTIONALLY misleading in terms of design, so I kinda ignored that point
seems in KOF XV, he’s getting more personality traits but… remember, _IT’S A RUNNING JOKE IN THE COMMUNITY TO PASSIVELY HATE SHUN’EI_
@@James-oj6ru Oh shoot, thanks for the fast response, haha!
As far as communities go, I'm pretty much uninvolved for nearly the most part, even for things I'm pretty interested in like Zelda, not a fan of the whole 'Milk a 2 second clip for 4 months of content' jazz, but I was genuinely unaware there was a Manga for KOF, I picked the game up ('02) to play with my uncle and brother from a Gamestop when i was way younger and when I saw XIV I got it on PS4 a year after release, then after finding some friends I started going back and playing the games with them since everyone still has some of the older consoles, so that gives me more to interact with before XV comes out, thanks a bunch.
Unrelated, kinda? But given Maxima was my first 'main' for the games, I'm a bit worried he might not make it for XV since we haven't seen anything yet, but I'm really hoping he pops up.
*reads the description* God, we need a Carnival Phantasm fighting game ASAP.
Plus, if there's no Neko Arc of any kinds I'll riot. Still buy the game, but I'll riot.
That'd be pretty amazing lmao, but I wouldn't be surprised if Type Lumina's DLC is loaded with fate characters.
@@skunthundler I really hope not. Part of Tsukihime's modern meta appeal is that it's not FATE. If they do put someone in, I hope it's less obvious picks rather than the usual Saibaman, Gaybulge, or Redman.
@@HellecticMojo
Post Fate Stay Night Hero of Justice Shirou would be a good DLC idea. His moveset is all about his Projection magecraft and his martial arts skills. Other than that, Gray would be dope.
Yes, Beams ARE Unisex
7:41 Stellar writing, just bravo
Arcruied.
Not gonna lie Aoko’s design has always given me the feeling of someone who doesn’t feel the need to care about how she looks. Just kinda easy going.
Kinda like, “eh, i guess ill just where a comfy tee and jeans”
Oddly enough thats whats always drew me towards her
it seriously baffles me that people don't seem to understand what spinoffs are. like why aren't they complaining that Patrick Star isn't wearing power armor in the nickelodeon smash bros
Same here. It's really weird that so many people can't understand that characters that aren't from a fighting game won't look like fighting game characters. Probably a case of "baby's first spin-off title".
@@Knoloaify And Smash Bros' strongest feat was to make non-fighters go fighting, I mean look at how they managed to make the Villager into a fighter.
It seriously baffles me that people don't seem to understand that this game wouldn't get this attention if it wasn't a spin-off.
Are people actually upset about this? Seriously, when I saw this game and it’s char design choices I was so intrigued by this juxtaposition of plain clothes and flashy anime magic. I was in love! Why do we feel like fighting games always need to be over the top? I’m not huge into fighting games, but this obviously stylistic decision roped me in.
Not so much upset for me as "I literally don't know who I'd even be interested in playing because none of these character designs look interesting enough to pull me into playing them and Riesbyfe isn't coming back to fix that."
At least that was the case until the Noel trailer. She's got a bigass spear and that is instantly more exciting to me.
@@Tomoka51 that makes sense, I guess I feel that way when I look at generic shooters or hero/shooters or even some rpgs or Souls-like clones. Where the art just doesn’t have enough merit on its own to pull me in. But I guess the rules change for me with fighting games and anime
@@Tomoka51 but it's a fucking destroyer of worlds wearing regular jeans
I felt the same but then I fell in love with the fact that Hisui, a typical, 'generic' house maid throws you by head butting the shit out of you and knocking you out from it. The game is absolutely exploding with personality from touches like that. Sign me up.
People before the DA Noel reveal: "Man Melty chararcters have no drip!"
People after the DA Noel reveal: "OH FUCK GO BACK!"
FGC: Aoko is peak design lol
A.B.I: *Y E S*
What are your thoughts on this video? ua-cam.com/video/NVd-1C4vISg/v-deo.html
Still not a fan of her design.
@@joshuataylor7443
Bro you gotta actually give context to links. You looked like a bot. Glad it wasn’t a scam.
@@lazerninga sorry but I just wanted to see other people thoughts on this video and did think that much about explain , So I will ask a question what is your thoughts on the video and the remake design's criticism as a whole?
@@joshuataylor7443
Oh, I was ticked when I saw Ciel’s new hair. She’s my favourite Type Moon character and seeing her become a Saber face was dumb (he says mash face but some shots look kinda saber minus ahoge).
That said I do like the new arts style and after having gotten used to it I’m less mad because I just want new Tsukihime stuff. Takeuchi definitely could have stayed closer to the original designs (or at least hair) and while I wish he did, Curry Senpai is still best girl design wise imo.
9:57 "Melty Blood characters are boring and that's perfectly fine" after 9 minutes and 57 seconds I disagree with you saying that these characters are boring.
Magic assholes fighting in the streets at night is an interesting concept for a visual novel.
It's not just on the streets. The first Dead End in the VN is you getting eaten by a shark. While on the top floor of a hotel. You've gotta keep playing the VN to learn why that happened.
Neco Arc is the peak of fighting game character design
Once again, you hit the nail on the head perfectly A.B.i.
These designs aren't like SF,TEK,GG ect.
But I wouldn't be drawn to it if it was like them. I'm very much looking forward to playing this new Magic Assholes fighting in the streat at night.
How did you make this comment six days ago when this video was released today? Is this the work of the Dead Apostles?
@@littlefoxtrestruenos1799 LMAOOOO
@@littlefoxtrestruenos1799 lol wtf
What are your thoughts on this video? ua-cam.com/video/NVd-1C4vISg/v-deo.html
@@littlefoxtrestruenos1799 I'm a patrion supporter.
Regarding your statement of "Shiki looking like Seth and Arcueid looking like Rachel" There is already a very good example of this kind of drastic character redesigning to suit a fighting game going poorly, and it's called Castlevania Judgement.
I’m gonna be perfectly honest, I think that having a game that does not have over the top characters is going to be refreshing. Also this game looks amazing.
And that is the sick part. Because they are doing SICK ASS SHIT on screen causing all this violence and mayhem while moving at a frentic pace and trying to break ankles with quick movements. Stuff you don't assume these uniformed normies are capable of.
@@t4d0W he spittin
Ugh. I'd say that a lot of the over top character designs in modern fighting games comes out as uninspired and dare I say it, puke inducing in the characters(and their designers) attempt at making each of them """unique""".
@@blastermaster5039 ADD MORE BELTS
I fail to see how this is refreshing. There are plenty of games that have bland character designs. You just have to look. Fighting games are just a genre where they do exaggerate the designs to convey what the character is, since like he said you design characters based on what you need.
3:49, something about this is both Bizarre to see, but at the same time kinda neat? You don't really see a franchise's lead murderer act so kind to a kid unless it's for a dual purpose, like Vader picking up Starkiller as a kid. But Akuma is exempt from that rule I guess.
I always took it as Akuma's "evil" is in the context of battle and his warrior's code. Outside of that, he probably retains some level of humanity
Even Jason Voorhees had a mercy scene in Jason takes Manhattan where he just reveals his face to a bunch of punks instead of just gutting them.
It sucks that, in the actual games, all the SF characters are the most basic bitches who never evolve passed their one-note premise. The only place they have any development is OUTSIDE of their own game franchise. To me, that's a huge failure.
@@donkeydarko77 DEFINITELY not true, at least for Ryu and Ken. Ken goes from being cocky and hot headed bachelor to a protective and level headed, fighter and husband. Ryu also goes from being troubled and cocky in the Alpha series(his win quotes are VERY cocky) due to beating Sagat, to also becoming very humble and more wise by the time SFIII rolls around. Sagat goes from being on top of the world in SFI to being consumed with rage during the events of SF Alpha to the point of selling out most of his integrity joining Shadaloo in order to get a grudge match with Ryu. Only learning that Ryu's satsui no hadou is what was behind his scar, was he able to let go and return to an honorable path.
There's development there for the characters that truly move the story.
What are your thoughts on this video? ua-cam.com/video/NVd-1C4vISg/v-deo.html
The whole point is that it’s subversion of expectation. Average looking people with un-average fighting ability. That’s part of Tsukihime’s appeal, and it’s part of Melty’s too.
Yup, the whole story of Tsukihime is based on "this normal looking person is actually...."
This girl, living in normal apartment? Princess of True Ancestors
This older schoolmate, you see sometimes? Vampire hunter
Your own sister?
Your maids?
Everyone here who is important has some sort of secret that drastically changes perception of that person, but this secret is usually not seen on the first glance (it is a secret, after all). Usually there are even few layers of secrets.
It all would be ruined if designs were anything other than "normal people"
Antagonists are the exception here, but they don't even try to live among people in any way.
@@vladprus4019 Hell, even the protag himself has eyes that see the flaws in anything, allowing him to _destroy_ anything with the right kind of touch. It's pretty great.
You do often expound on the importance of fighting game characters' designs both in still frame and in motion, but what has been showcased here for Melty Blood is these especially hold true in tandem. I think I've most often, little as I ever have, seen these characters in their plain attires, in still frames, getting a feel for their moods, but not for their "deals", but watching those animations both of their plain appearances (white-tee-and-blue-jeans kung-fu'ing magic out her extremities like a trailer park Bayonetta) and their more elaborate implementations (this guy's hair and clothes unraveling in the whirlwind of some amorphous flail of shadowy tendrils) weave to tell about the veiled world of dangers carefully concealed by beings who must have some reason to keep up pretenses. I don't know how interested I may have been in Tsukihime before, but if it means getting more context for watching this cast's "weird" breaking out, consider the cross-promotion working!
There's so much under the guise of their natural designs and that's what's great about them.
I think Melty Blood's characters would be understood more if they had also
marketed and released the Tsukihime Remake VN in the West as well. RIP English Release for now
Og Vn is definitely worth the read
I don't think ppl would have given it the time of day thought, if ppl don't play JRPG's because they are "boring" imagine VN's...
I still remember the day when i got Actress Again, and i didnt like any of the designs so i decided to play Ryougi, so i hit the select button and she pulls a knife from her pocket and changes her idle for the rest of the duration of the character select screen, that shit felt powerful and i couldn't really say why, but you managed to put into words what i felt in my head
She is a badass even in the anime. :)
I love that little move. She just straight up pulls a shiv on you and starts glaring over her shoulder. Like, "Okay, then. Time to cut a bitch."
What do I think about melty blood?
I've started reading the original Tsukihime out of spite and I'm going to be the asshole at locals who tells everyone to read the visual novel, that's what I think.
(I'm hyped af for type lumina)
Based Nasuverse Enthusiast
Be sure to read the manga as well cause it's so gooood
Based af
Absolutely fucking based
@@nanaya1398 a legend
The easiest way I was sold on trying AACC was watching the characters in motion. I think the first match I saw was Akiha vs Walachia. Instantly thought both looked fun to play.
6:33 there is an official name for that genre in Japanese Literature. The Denki/Quanki Genre. Taking its root back to Chinese Plays and Fantasy Literature and Old Stories like Hakuenden, its a genre of Urban Fantasy involving hidden orders underneath the shadow and character awakening there hidden sides
Care to tell us more? Google can't seem to find anything about it.
Oh. that explains Clamp's "X/1999" A LOT! Among other like 90s/2000s OVAs/Anime that played this similar card.
@@t4d0W Also Boogiepop.
@@2deep5u yes thats perfecr example. Also Wicked City is an example
@@2deep5u Seems like he misspelt the Chinese and that's why you can't find it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuanqi_(short_story)
I have a friend that's new to Melty Blood and he found out about Aoko. He asked me why she looked so normal so I replied with "Shes like Gojo before he was even a thing" He's a JJK fan and he took offence to that so I showed him the website listing what she's capable of.
"And you can easily tell which of these two maids is the prim and proper one, and which one is the goofball."
I mean, yes, but also... no?
You absolutely hit this video out of the park, i remember seeing this a year ago and ignoring it pushing it aside as an "ignorant youtuber who probably doesnt know the context of the characters who are in this game" and it made me not click on the video for a whole year. After watching the first few mins I thought i was correct in my asumption but i was glad to see that I was wrong as you explained it all perfectly and even gave credit to the design even while calling it bland. very good video and youve earned a sub (even if its a year late).
yeah, you should learn to let people develop their point before making assumptions you know?
Melty Blood designs always interested me specifically because they look out of place on the surface. It intrigues me to the point where I want to learn more about them and the best way by doing that in-game is to play as them.
Nasu was and kinda still in his phase where he believes it’s cooler to see normal, generic people do cool shit than cool characters do cool shit. Hence how he tends to write the FGO MC, someone normal but somehow ends up being the most important character because they’re normal and human.
Hence the intentionally generic character designs. I believe he directed Takeuchi to draw them generically because of this.
Nasu definitely has a thing for very plain human characters surpassing supernatural phenomena/beasts through sheer badassery, makes me think of that one iconic scene in Mahoyo.
Nasu and Tite Kubo would get along really well.
@@Knoloaify Don't forget about Sparks Liner High ending form Fate/Stay Night
This was very present in Angel Notes, where the main character was the strongest even though he was a lone, weak human surrounded by other super-powered species.
@@dogsand6345 Man, I'd kill to have an Angel Notes X FGO Collab. "Mankind's Final Hero" for Gun God would make an excellent title for him as an Archer Servant.
the mash 2A joke at 7:50 was pure gold, all melty players will understand
I would love to learn about the Melty Blood Character through reading the Tsukhime Remake
Unfortunately Nasu is the strangest demi-boomer of all time and there is NO ENGLISH TRANSLATION despite the fact that people have been waiting years for it.
Pain.
Just FYI you can read the tsukihime manga online for free and get a good enough overview of things. It's a great read on its own too
I actually really appreciate the simple and clean designs, it's a nice change of pace.
I just hope that this new game brings in a new age of Melty Blood money matches in the most random of places. Preorders should be acquired in convention hotel bathrooms and Denny's parking lots to keep the spirit alive.
I hope system requirements are low, just like previous games.
Otherwise, most laptops won't be able to run it, including mine... :(
@@BknMoonStudios And if a Dell laptop from 2016 can't run it, what's the point?
This is a new game and possibly new audience. I think the age of bathrooms and Dennys running Melty tourneys are somewhat over. Moreso if the rollback netcode of this game is as stellar as Strives. Also tell me another modern FG that gives you a custom color palette maker. You aren't satisfied with your characters' default drip coordination? Remake it to your own desire and delay tourneys because you are trying to get that perfect palette before your match.
@@t4d0W but what if... with rollback we could play in two different bathrooms?
@@skyslashnova4308 Big brain idea right there.
Not gonna lie
I'll miss Arcueids granny dress
But this is interesting. I've played many fighting games but know literally zero story lol. The uni designs convey everything so well. I feel melty characters you have to see what they do to understand them.
Arcueids long skirt being taking away is a travesty.
@@ryukenxx2 I agree, it was a mistake. But they won't give it back. So I can only cry
I've had many discussions about Arc's purple granny skirt, and while I'm also a fan of it and I think it's iconic, I also realize that it would be out of place in this reboot. The whole point of Arcruied isn't that she has an antiquated sense of style (which might be easy to think because she's an immortal vampire), it's actually the opposite; she's a very modern girl, and it would show in her sense of fashion. It just so happened that when Tsukihime came out in 2000, her turtleneck and long skirt were the style at the time. Her new look is more modern and fresh, to better reflect the time period.
@@SugarPunch There's a Funny fact for her granny dress. It's simply a time where Takeuchi have difficulties drawing bare female legs. XD
Like just look back on how many characters wore long dresses vs everyone else in the original tsukihime.
Arc, Akiha, Ciel, Kohaku, Hisui, Len vs Satsuki, School/Powered Ciel vs Aoko.
@@SugarPunch The point of Arcueid, at least in the original novel, was that she was an antiquated person who only knew about the modern world through some fast reading (which is established on her date with Shiki), it just didn't make sense for her to know anything about fashion when she barely knew how to eat a hamburger or watched a movie. TsukiRe is going for a different approach and that's fine, but it is changing this aspect of her which is definetly a divisive thing
"Does that mean fighting game characters can only be as deep as they appear in the surface?" Me who's kept up with most of Guilty Gear's lore and listened to every Strive songs several times: Hell no!
There's a reason I appreciate characters like Sol, Ky, Leo, Zato, Ramlethal, I-No, Axl and more, and that's deffinitely not just because of their gameplay.
(in all seriousness, if you don't wanna jump headfirst at the lore, give each character's theme a listen to gain a glimpse of who their are and their hidden depth. There's some genuinly good stuff to find there. "Hellfire", "Let Me Carve Your Way", "Armor-clad Faith", "Roar Of The Spark", "The Kiss Of Death" are some notable songs to listen to if you have some spare time.)
Xrd did a great job at unifying most of the disjointed GG lore. It made go and research all previous plots, start to really connect to these characters (Sol's specially).
It's a mess, but I believe these last two games managed to condense emough of it so it's cohesive.
Necessary Discrepancy is godly for that exact reason. It's kind of a bad fight song, but it's a beautiful re-telling of Ramlethal's story from her perspective.
@@victorhugocosta1127 I wouldn't call it a mess. "Mess" to me just means "shit", which I see as an insult that doesn't give the games enough credit. "Loaded" or "convoluted" is more appropriate. Woolieversus' lore series is now the go to video if you want a recap of the plot up to Strive. Strive even has a glossary of GG and it's world, and it is WAY more helpful than you might think.
Strive is easily the most cohesive story yet and you don't need to double-check to understand what's going on outside of stuff revolving around Happy Chaos, Jack-O, the Backyard and I-No.
I also agree that I really like Sol. Easily my favorite protagonist in a fighting game. Glad to see his story reach a satisfying conclusion with Jack-O.
@@XernuhtZwei It's not a bad fight song at all. It really picks up at the 2 minute mark and like you said, it's already a good song because it summarises Ramlethal's growth throughout Xrd. She goes from an obidient, emotionless being that follows her mother's orders, then becomes conflicted and questions the concept of the human heart, followed by an emotional burst leading to her forming an actual personality and becoming a real character.
The song ends with Ramlethal (realising that Disccrepancy is Necessary) rejecting her mother and learning the concept of compassion that exists among all living beings, including herself. This is some genuinly good writing that exists in most songs in Strive and it's this type of stuff that makes me love Guilty Gear so much. I could go on and on, but you get my point. (I know you said that it's a bad fight song, but again, that's mostly personal preference.)
@@leithaziz2716 but messy doesn't equal shit. I'm just highlighting the fact that major canon events happened through different medias without any sort of clear cohesion between them.
There're crucial story moments spread out through multiple Drama CD's, light novels, Pachinko machine, and the hundreds of X2 endings that each contain a piece of the overrall canon.
What I meant is that Xrd was the first game in the series to actually try to tie all the loose ends in the lore and managed to make an intriguing and fun story.
It's messy, but it's good. It's not like Kingdom Hearts, in comparison.
aight, type moon nutcase here (aka know too much). rarely do i see "content creators" make analysis of the franchises so on point like this, have a like and keep at it
I'm SO GLAD you're talking about this subject! It always had interested me how Melty's designs could be so simple yet work so well!
I hope to see more videos about Melty Blood when it comes out!
Reminding people who just learned the word "character design" in the past two years that character design encompasses more than just a body type, an outfit, and a hair style
I feel like a lot of people forget that there’s more that goes into making a character cool than just how they look,
How they fight, *why* they fight, attack visuals sound effects voice acting etc etc all help to build cool characters as well
One of the nice things about Tsukihime is its relative groundedness, the dumb Hellsing nun excluded. It is a modern day vampire story, but it doesn't get bogged down in any big vampire secret society lore or whatever. There are no corny vampires in trendy clothing running nightclubs to suck blood from their guests or anything of that sort. It's closer to reality than many settings, and has a very distinct mood. I find it impossible to not think about Tsukihime when I walk outside alone on a warm summer night.
I have mixed feelings about the remake, it feels inevitable that something will be lost, but I hope they localize it anyway. Tsukihime deserves, at the very least, the visibility of Melty Blood.
Regardless, it's cool to have Melty Blood come back and get an HD overhaul. I played act cadenza a ton in college.
What are your thoughts on this video? ua-cam.com/video/NVd-1C4vISg/v-deo.html
I mean, there is a vampire secret society. Remember the 27 DAAs.
@@liansmith4038 Yeah, I remember looking them up on wikis lol. It's been a while so maybe there's a bit more, but the way I remember it, it's only brought up to contextualize the vampires they're up against when Arc and Shiki need something to talk about while passing the time in that hotel room. So it's like one scene of Arc saying "There's some dangerous vampires out there" to build up the tension.
Point I was trying to make was, Shiki isn't dragged into some Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines deal where he has to navigate gangs that are vampires or something.
@@joshuataylor7443 I can relate to the concerns and feel it carries over to Melty Blood Lumina. Kohaku in the original Melty and Tsukihime looks a lot more jovial and goofy compared to the new one for example, who I think looks sort of cold.
On the plus side, Tsukihime had very amateurish drawings. I think it's possible to come out the other end of the remake/lumina feeling good about the art and new designs if the games show them enough love, despite me missing Arc's longer skirt etc.
@@Kriss_ch. "Point I was trying to make was, Shiki isn't dragged into some Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines deal where he has to navigate gangs that are vampires or something."
This is what I really like about Nasu urban fantasy stories. That despite it having secret societies, magic and stuff... it can still be quite grounded and doesn't have "separate plane of reality" feel. It feels like less "there is supernatural, it is put in our world, but it acts like sort of a separate thing" and more "there is our world, what kind of supernatural stuff can go on here?"
This video has made me realise 2 things
1. Why the designs of the non persona 4 characters in P4 arena are so detailed compared to those in the base game
2. Under night in birth is basically just tsukihime but with the design philosophy of a fighting game.
The fact that old type moon designs are deemed "bland" by modern standards is quite the condemnation of modern character design.
I dunno I kinda like powerful characters who dont wear cosplays for everyday clothes
MY BOY VLOV OUT HERE FROM THE GUCCI STORE THO
This is very interesting, I didn't know that much about tsukihime, but this explains it really well and shows important information about how character designs work, and why it works so well for Melty Blood. Good video.
The Genre you were looking for is "Modern Fantasy" or "Urban Fantasy"
This is by far the most productive thing to come out of this stupid discourse. Thank you.
While Melty Blood's design is perfect for what it is and doesn't really lose depth when compared to other fighting games, I also don't think any other game could pull that off. Melty's design is fun to analyze and pretty ingenious the more you know about the lore, but it's still a "mistake" by fighting games standard. Like you said at 5:13, you don't _need_ to follow the norm to be successful, but it _is_ the norm for a reason.
To be fair it is the norm if you are doing an original IP and not a spin-off. Melty's advantage is being a spin-off game from Tsukihime so people who are familiar with the lore just want to see those chars in motion in a fighting game. Someone who doesn't understand the lore and is looking to be impressed in a bombastic way then has to be sold by gameplay or a char design they vibe with enough after seeing the game.
the norm is boring i want the school uniform
sorry bro i have to disagree, the whole point of the video is that the desings are super shallow, but the characters arent. melty blood doesnt loose in depth with characterization compared to other fighting games because the rest of the package(animations voices and yadda yadda) give you a good impression of what the chars are about and you can imprint that into the blank slate thats the design (also moslty because they are fleshes out in the original games of the series as well but that doesnt get into the argument comparing it to other FG's).
7:00 like his UNBRIDLED HATRED FOR CHAIRS
XD
You've done it. You've done what other people can't, and not only accurately summed up Fate's plot, but all of Type Moon's output in one sentence.
If everyone knew Melty Blood is just a spinoff from a visual novel, perhaps this video wouldn't need to exist in the first place
As a fan of melty since the early 2000s doujin days. This has been my favorite youtube content regarding it. :) Melty means alot to me specially as a gamedev. Thank you for making this.
Thank you this video really explains everything with the designs as such with how VN takes time to explain the characters while fighting games speak for them outright and melty blood in between giving interesting experience.
Also fun fact about aoko she use the chad magic that laser canon shots she does along with it she also fucks with time some degree quite laid back compared to her youth being very uptight about everything
And she has her own visual novel called mahoutsukai no yoru
Can't wait for the Full Translation
The designs in Type Lumina are interesting and unique precisely because no other fighting game has characters designed the way Melty Blood does. So it is the most unique by being the most "plain".
Well, there is something that the new Melty has that the old one did not, and that's probably going to help its chances quite a bit: namely that Type-Moon kinda has _massive_ clout nowadays. Plus the Tsukihime remake is just coming out, instead of being left behind in 2000 by Melty's updates. I dunno if that's enough to push an audience of primarily visual novel readers and RPG players into a fighting game, but it does mean that it has a lot of exposure beyond just the FGC.
On that note, it's fun to notice that the characters designs can vary a lot even in TM's usual urban fantasy fare. There are characters who dress all kinds of funny, as long as they don't care about "proper society". Ryougi's outfit is anachronistic and weird, but she's both mostly antisocial and a yakuza heir. And of course, Servants are anime as all hell by default, being time-displaced heroes who aren't really meant to integrate (and the few that do usually get their hands on casual clothes in the process)... and that means if Type Lumina gets the obligatory Saber cameo she's going to stick out like mad
Yeah it's all about the contrast between the normal and the supernatural. An example I love is Alice's design in Mahoyo, she one of the designs that stands out the most precisely because while other characters are normal people caught up in magic stuff, she is a mage first and foremost, and thus when she goes out she wears a very unique outfit compared to the others.
I'm sure Saber won't be in Lumina though, she wasn't in Melty Blood and Tsukihime's story got nothing to do with her.
On melty's design, i LOVE Kohaku's walk animation, it's very unique among the cast and conveys her personality SO WELL
This really does put into perspective of the differences of design philosophies between 2 different genres. And when they meet it can be a bit jarring but I think with what games they are trying to portray, it works. As you mention DR designs are very distinct and loud because they are trying to set up some kind of expectation, it’s still a mystery game so now you don’t know if that really is them or if there is something else they are hiding about them. But for a normal visual novel, they don’t need to go wild with designs and they can gradually build up characters in a longer period of time. So seeing this with Melty Blood and it does show how these design philosophies clash but also how they work. Aoko seems more like the most fitting because she is the most powerful in the world and since she can do whatever she wants, she dresses whatever she wants. She has that playful side to her so simple jeans that are just right and a t-shirt fits her cause she can play in an instance which involves lasers. So yeah Melty Blood isn’t a typical fighting game and have a different kind of feeling in the base game that’s carried over to their fighting game spin-off.
another amazing ABItorial. always love it when these videos come out. really good points in this one too
Cant lie i think i prefer the simplistic designs rather than the approach most fighting games are doing these days and overdesigning their characters
They're simple, but they animate beautifully
I’ve been curious about this since the game got announced and people were discussing the designs, thank you for the insight!
I didn't even know there was a "controversy" about the designs beign bland. I tried some Melty Blood years ago (i know nothing about tsukuhime or fate or whatever IPs are related to this thing) because i like trying new fighters for fun and i spent an absurd amount of time on the character select screen because no character was "calling me". I couldn't identify any archetype either so after trying like 4 random characters i said fuck it and googled who was the grappler. They still didn't click because i really didn't give a damn about the design, i couldn't see myself playing it for long, there was no connection.
I undestrand why they're designed like this, it makes sense and it's not a problem for people already into the IP but for someone new wanting to try the game out without any previous knowledge i can see this being a big problem.
That's fair enough, but Type-Moon/Nasuverse (what Melty is based off) is a very story heavy and deep universe. They can't and won't (thankfully) change the 'plain' designs to 'cool' designs just so some normies will play it. What Type-Moon fans like about their works is that there isn't just something so it's 'cool' or 'hype'. Everything has a deeper meaning.
that fate growing tree makes me burst out laught lmaaaoooo
That one edit of Aoko with a supreme logo on her shirt will always live rent free in my head
Type lumina is my first Melty Blood game, I was hesitant coming from guilty gear with their crazy character design, and having these super reserved characters designs here. But, 10 minutes in I realized the initial appeal isn’t they’re appearance, but their animations and fighting styles. I was skeptical of the maids, especially kohaku, but after completing here combo trials and seeing how all of her moves work I couldn’t help but choose her as my main. Loving this game so far, and loving every character as well.
Great video. This video nailed what I like about Melty Blood's designs.
The funniest thing is it's hardest for people to understand to people who don't even know the franchise but you absolutely nailed it!
Indeed
Tldr: melty characters look like theyre from an early 2000s visual novel because they are
Ironic how some modern cultural trends are trending back to 2000s with a looming major financial crises, the discourse of some old animes (EVA finishing in movie form, Cowboy Bebop IN Live action form) and the revival of Punk Pop/Emo. And here we are wondering what timeline Melty Blood is trying to evoke. A more modern one that we are only detached from two decades ago. I guess that is why its easy to overlook.
Persona is an older series that is also an urban fantasy and their designs aren’t bland. What’s your point?
Wow… You completely sold me on a game with which I absolutely did not jive with the art style at all. Now though, I’m really leaning towards trying it or getting Type Lumina.
A lot of video essay guys get lost in the sauce so I appreciate that you didn't ramble and kept it to the point. Also great production value/examples too!
This is what people didn't get about Under Night it's a like a self-parody yet also could completely work if they crossed over. That's why Sion from Melty is one of the perfect guest characters. It's all about Magic Assholes Fighting at night. This also goes into stage design to why every single place is devoid of life, we the player/viewers are trespassing. Even some characters acknowledge it.
I must say I prefer the designs in the "parody" of the original.
Lmao their not bland. Their just normal (casual). As an artist myself you have to understand that adding or removing from your characters is a thing of taste and used to express a vibe. Overdoing a design (for example GG Strive designs) can be given the preference of personal taste and just the overall design philosophy of GG itself. Nobody complained about melty's design way back when for reasons I wont get into. Now that fighting games get a push people are banding together and calling it "bland". Art unfortunately doesnt work that way. No one in Mob Psycho [I.e. main characters] looks ready to throw down but they can and will.
Id say that people are just not used to seeing casual designs fighting each other and that worries me because some of the designs of UNIB are far too (normal) but never got this reaction lol.
Its funny but some people have compared it to having IRL situations where you see/meet someone unassuming but you definitely do NOT want to meet them in a dark alley by yourself.
Kinda weird that Linne just walk around in hoodie and shorts but the FGC never complain about her
@@NeinKyori Exactlyy point. LInne is a perfect example lmao This day and age people will find any reason to say "product A is better than product B" without any constructive criticism. Want Guilty Gear to be more successful than its ever been? Say other products have "less design" and are simple compared to it.
Guilty Gear is GREAT! But by no means perfect. It has its artistic flaws but thats left to an individual criticism than good or bad.
Eh, I'm an artist myself and I'd argue the designs are pretty bland. It's not really fair for people to compare visual novel characters designs to fighting game characters though. Both are trying to achieve different things.
@@xravia79 I dont really agree, but I do see where you're coming from. I just dont see how these are "bland" just because they dress like normal people (at least some of em anyway). I think thats a bit shallow but every artist has different tastes. For example calling these characters bland would be acknowledging everyone in real life dresses bland, and while that may sometimes be true, there's a reason we have fashion shows with judges who rate bland design (imo) but the world views them as beyond stylish. I studied that, heck Jojo's Araki studied and I found that design is WAYY more than visual flare. Its baked into character. Goku and Vegeta have pretty bland designs (goku more) but the fandom (including my kidself) thought they where the coolest things ever. Visual novels tend to have different art styles. Shoot everything does for that matter.
I dont think these designs are bland in the slightest. We must have different tastes is all.
Love the Neco arc chaos quote in the description!
“Magic Assholes Fighting in the Streets at Night”
Yep, that’s it. We can all go home. We have the new genre name.
I mean, Ryu is just a man who wear a Karate Gi and no one bats an eye.
Exactly
Kyo was a high schooler and Terry an American from the 90's
But that kinda tells you he practices some martial arts, which is useful when you fight, which is useful when you're in a fighting game.
A glance at Akiha tells you that she is a school girl, who is probably too young and inexperienced to put up a fight.
It's not about how simple their designs are, but what they convey.
@@HasekuraIsuna Uh how about Sakura from sf alpha or athena from kof 2002?They both look young and inexperienced and no one complaining.
@@overlordzero316 I'm not familiar with SF or KoF so I had to look up them on Google images, but what I can say by just looking at the results:
Sakura, while surely wearing a Japanese school uniform, still has a headband and some sort of gloves for fighting. Furthermore, with the Capcom-style of huge hands and feet, and overall muscular legs, while young she looks experienced in training/fighting.
Athena, again young, but her clothes are those of an idol or some kind of girl that puts on a show, meaning she has some kind of athletic practice.
Furthermore, the spats under her skirt heavily signals that she's going to move so much her panties would show, and is a tell-tale sign of an active anime girl.
Rando: *" Why they don't look like fighting game characters? "*
Me (OG VN Reader): *"It's because they aren't fighting game characters to begin with"*
I think you’ll really love Melty Blood!
They put a lot of thought in story, and the plot between characters!
Not only there are dedicated intro and win quotes for specific matches.
Even the voice over in match would also altered!
Thank you for conveying what I've been trying to explain to people for months!
I look forward to the next time I say it, being told that I'm just copying you :P
Aoko has the fifth sorcery, magic blue. Just a little effect it can be utilised for, is time travel.
Nice video, i 100% agreed that visual novel characters that somehow made it into fighting game should be expressed in Animation or sometimes gameplay gimmick. Though i don't think Ryougi Shiki will make it back in the roster unless Nasu is somehow making an official crossover which means Void Shiki vs Archetype Earth pls!
Great video as always
8:43 Literally me when I played Actress Again for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Haven't stopped thinking about my next visit to the arcade for my next bite into more Melty Blood since.
I think that the "blandness problem" would be a lot less of an issue if the characters' hidden elements shown through more through their gameplay and move design.
Example: Shiki is a normal high schooler who gains a godlike power to manipulate death with his eyes, and also gaining a new perspective on how close by death can be in his world
How do they express that in his gameplay?
Shiki's special moves are: A forward moving knife strike (keep in mind the knife he uses is blunt and the only lore reason he can kill with it is his eyes), an anti-air kick (normal high schooler without any combat training), the same kick but in the air, a sliding low kick that can cancel into a launcher
After his install super where he accesses his mcguffin which his entire character is based on, he gets access to another series of special moves where he uses his knife in various ways
I think if they made his eyes a central mechanic to his character, maybe something like Azrael's weakpoints in blazblue, people would have less issue with the character design. In my opinion, French Bread showed more love to the original melty blood than they did to "the characters' lore", and it would really be more like powerful magical assholes hiding in plain sight, but whipping out there magical powers when they fight in the streets at night
Yeah shiki is capable of killing concepts too. They didn't do much with that.
@Joe Becker Both. Granted tohno is much worse at that.
On the plus side he has a ranged variation unlike the other shiki.
This is Frenchbread under the hood of this game. People are so short sighted when it comes to fighting games, and hold double standards when it comes to Japanese fighting games. Imo SF5 has some down right fugly and funky looking character designs ever, yet everyone just ate it up n barely complained. Il be buying this game twice for ps4(one digital one physical) and one on switch.
Having recently been learning about various aspects of Game Dev to develop my own game I appreciated the simple character designs right away because I knew it meant they could focus on the actual game due to needing less time to produce all of the graphics.
I'll also say that fantasy in modern settings is often referred to as 'Urban Fantasy', which often involves hidden conflict or 'masquerade'