Not gonna lie, I always held it against liu kang for how often he was winning tournaments in canon. His story just didn't feel as interesting as some of the other endings.
From what I heard and saw in this video, it's not that Ingrid simply _beat_ Bison. It's that she made a complete and utter joke out of him, made Psycho Power (you know, the thing that defines Bison as a threat) out to have been something he _stole_ rather than it being given to or earned by him, and then just kinda left to make a joke out of good ol' MC Ryu too. And probably did off-screen, simply because she's Ingrid and she's awesome.
I clicked on this anticipating a discussion of wildly overpowered characters, not learning that apparently the Fighting Game Community suffers from Cute Aggression.
It's all down to cultural differences, really. Idol culture isn't a thing in the west so characters that represent that looks weird and is generally not accepted.
Not gonna lie, I thought I was gonna see a discussion about their in game skillset abuse, and such... and I'm lowkey disappointed by the entirety of the video. Especially with the conclusion being a not-so thought provoking question. There's no doubt that most people thag like fighting games, like them because they're not anime tropey "cutesy" "UwU" vibe games. So inviting those characters into the roster will gain natural detest. That's just obvious. Asking why is..weird..to me. But the fact he overlooked their actual performance in the game, and how that adds to the feedback is a total letdown. I cant speak for Ingrid, or Lucky Chloe, but I can say... I've seen more stigma against Marie Rose and Honoka players rather than the characters... and only complaints of the characters by proxy. Marie Rose is inconsistent in personality, not lacking in it. Honoka has no defined personality beyond being innocent and oblivious, ie childlike. So to see her use these OP "cool" moves and in spamming methods is off putting. It goes against her brand as childish and suddenly she's a pro powerhouse, specifically one that's annoying to fight. That creates a big disdain for the playerbase. Marie Rose also has a generally aggravating moveset that also can be used to trigger the player-- and ruin their setups etc in an instant.. and she has one of the worst(best?) infinite loops in the game. You take that into account with a dry personality-- and inconsistent storyline and she's naturally gonna be disliked by seasoned players as well. Not to mention the general dislike that tbe characters are "child like" and sexualized to a point that it's SLIGHTLY uncomfortable. There's just not a lot of room for them to be liked. (Which was also overlooked in this video.) I can see why people dislike Marie Rose, I can see people being annoyed by honoka personality wise...but sheeeeeesh. FIGHTING THEM?😂 It's a rage cesspool waiting to be built...and likely the true base of most detestment. Which is something I've heard about Chloe too.
Never heard the term Cute Aggression, but I think I'm definitely gonna remember it. Plenty in the FGC like or are at least neutral to cute things sure, but there's definitely some sort of intense backlash like hate at this particular flavor of cute. It usually seems to be the...I guess audacity of a character like that appearing in anything outside of somewhere where its expected to stay like Blazblue or Melty Blood. I can at least understand that, not finding it fitting the tone of a game, but some of the rage seems to get really...dramatic. Before people even knew what Cloe's moveset was, I remember some people absolutely lost their shit at the character even existing. And in Ingrid's case its especially weird since like the video said, she didn't even come from a completed game to even ruin. Maybe it's a bit of a Scrappy effect? Like people thought the character was being pushed too much? None of these characters are really my cup of tea either but I don't entirely get what warrants the level of rage I see sometimes.
I think it boils down to the general stigma of cute girls doing cute things. People are more than willing to have female fighters since they often share masculine tropes for the simple fact of being fighters in the first place. Being sexy comes as a bonus. However, having cutesy fighters kinda crosses the line for the "HARDCORE" slice of the FGC since the archetype for the most part reject the typical sexy or strong tropes of a female fighter. This is why DOA fans have little to say against Ayane despite being younger than Marie or Honoka.
@@Lazrael32 Well, most of the complainers are mostly annoyed by them. 90%+ of the FCG don't really give a shit about cutesy characters as long as they are fun.
Dead or Alive 5 and 6 being rough at launch probably didn't help. Honoka probably would have gone unnoticed if Marie Rose wasn't so pandering alongside Last Round getting absurd amounts of costume DLC
Well said. And I think it's even harder for a lot of people to accept the idea of cute girls trashing the more serious characters in a match. I'm not part of the hate train: I was one of those who did play Capcom Fighting Evolution, but I wasn't interested to use Ingrid as there were better cast choices. I simply didn't know enough about her to want to use her, much less hate her.
Marie Rose is a breath of fresh air to a franchise where most of the females are associated w/ jiggle physics, and has become one of my favorites. But since DOA has a reputation of being a titillating series, her "underaged" design tends to make certain people uncomfortable. As for Honoka, I personally find her very generic as an addition to the roster since she's a top heavy schoolgirl whose moves are from the other characters of the game.
@@jp3813 I know it’s just cuz their both a bit young also I knew it didn’t matter as much with Marie I was mainly talking about honoka with like her “biker” costume
@@ProjectTaker At this point in the franchise, Eliot's still the youngest followed by NiCO, Ayane, Marie Rose, & Honoka. All of whom are 18 years of age. However, Eliot & Ayane both debuted in the previous games at age 16.
If you ask me, I think the hatred toward these characters may be rooted in a general distaste towards "moe". Fighting game fans seem to prefer their female characters to be sexy and badass, not cute and girly. It's why characters like Chun Li and Cammy from Street Fighter, Baiken and I-no from Guilty Gear, or the Williams from Tekken are highly regarded while these girls are looked down upon. Even though these hated characters can kick just as much ass as the rest of their respective casts, the fact that they do so in a jovial and girlish way tends to put off a lot of players.
That's where the argument of "this character doesn't belong in this game" comes from, when people see these moe, playful, childish characters that look like they're not even taking the fight seriously in the same ring as characters like Kazuya and Heihachi, they can find it pretty annoying, specially in Tekken's more "grounded" fighting styles, like Nina, Ana, Xiaoyu, Christie, it doesn't matter if they're sexy or cute, when it's time to fight, they take their fighting stances and fight, that may be why they're beloved characters.
Thats also why Giovanna is liked a lot it seems (and to be fair, I think she looks cool). But yeah, people dont want to embrace the "anime" aspects because it makes them feel embarased (and to be fair, I feel the same to some extent. I dont like playing May because of that. I love playing Baiken, I-No and I'm fine with Ramlethal, but when it comes to May, it can feel "wrong", or at least you wont be taken seriously afterwards.) This is coming from somebody that watches JoJo.
@@leithaziz2716 Ineresting, because in the GG community both Baiken and I-no are seen as characters played primarily by people who "don't play guilty gear". Especially now with the outrage over I-no's boobs and the "Baiken for strive crowd" they're not really respected by most fighting game players unless you're actually good with them. May doesn't get that kind of hate in GG and people really didn't complain as much about her as other girlish characters in fighting games.
@@toasted7719 Would you believe me if I told you I actually main Baiken in Rev 2? I find her to be cool. And I actually really like I-No's new look in Strive. Thinking of trying her out myself. But I am aware of the Baiken "fans" you're talking about.
I don't think there are any real "joke" characters in Tekken, aside from endings shenanigans. Law and Paul still look badass during the match, it's not like they're crying and falling over themselves like, say, Dan.
@@bennymountain1 yeah but still they should be taken serious in there story part. They've been comic reliefs for for a long time now especially paul and in tekken 7 just takes the cake. I actually enjoy the humer side of tekken, but some characters you gotta draw the line where enough is enough.
In one game.. Xiaoyu's ending had her use her winning money to fund a time machine, intending to go back in time and prevent Heihachi from throwing young Kazuya into the volcano, but when it appeared it hit Heihachi and directly caused him to throw Kazuya into the volcano..
Yeah. It's funny cause I myself find her to be a lil bit overrated. I don't dislike her at all, just not as in love with her as apparently every other street fighter fan is. But even I think the idea of her being crapped on if say, she appeared for the first time in sfv in her classic design is sad considering the the legacy of her we actually got.
The Lucky Cloe drama made the least sense. She wasn't a child nor was she overpowered in the lore. Ignorant players just complained "She doesn't belong" in a game with boxing kangaroos and dinosaurs...
I don't understand the "child" accusations either. They use that EVERYTIME a young or young-looking character is announced. Look at how people got mad when Miyako was announced in the new Melty Blood game. They said "she doesn't fit" despite her being in multiple Melty Blood games in the past. Plus, young characters in fighting games was always a thing with characters like Sakura in Street Fighter or Platinum the Trinity in Blazblue and they said NOTHING about those characters. So why is it a problem now?
Ignorance is bliss and Common sense is not common, as long as these people get their characters in the game I don't see where this self centered attitude comes from, there should be characters for everyone not just muscle man machos.
I can imagine the hate because the character's design only fulfills the Japanese fighting game communities' pop culture. Ingrid was hated because of the game she debuted being the worst fighting game Capcom ever made, Lucky was just one of those idol cultures that was pretty strong in Japan and the dev team possibly take feedbacks from fans for idol-esque fighter and Honoka/ Marie Rose is the only ones that I don't even know was hated.
During the Lucky Chloe Troll War, Harada at one point stated that Lucky Chloe wil be removed in all non-japanese Versions and be replaced by a generic looking white bald muscle man lol
Marie and Honoka are just victims of being rising stars who raised quite quickly into being actual stars and looking "different" from the rest. That is pretty much it... It's just like how SP mentioned that if Sakura had debuted more recently and not in the times of the arcades when no one in particular seemed to be a star besides the obvious one, and people just got use to her... she would be part of this group of "ill-fitting" characters.
@@troykv96 Wouldn't that mean that they are actually more beloved than hated? Every hot thing is going to have haters because people like being contrarians.
@@talhaahmed2130 That is basically what happens here, people pretty much hate this two just for being contrarians, it just happens that there are more contrarians than usual, enough to be... noticeable.
Also, reminder that the literal cat is one of the few characters in the lore confirmed to have screwed (Is it just him and Nine?). Nothing to do with the vid or your comment, but the idea came to mind and I needed to curse someone else with that knowledge.
My biggest problem with Rachel is that she never gets "damaged" (her in game damage animation is off the cat), to the point there is no satisfaction. Then again, same can be said about characters like Izanami, Elizabeth and Slayer (that is until they added cinematic in Xrd, which made it far more enjoyable). Platinum is just a walking booger though, who thankfully gets bungled up too. Honestly, anime fighter fit better for the anime fighters, y'know.
Abel character traits: Searching for a sense of identity A bit naive Resents being a clone/Shadowloo body Like animals, especially dogs Quiet, but friendly. Gief weirds him out. I mean, he's not Juri, or Viper, but he's there...
@@shadowmoon1657 he does have the wrestler suit, which can be considered very sexy. But otherwise, id say hes like a bee, doesn't attack unless threatened. Which i like.
Liking animals is the kind of thing you'd put on an online dating profile to hide your lack of a personality, like saying you're "fun-loving" or "laid-back." Everyone likes animals. And being "friendly" just means that you're not rude. Okay... what did you want, a cookie?
Ingrid seems like the kind of character people label "Mary Sue" and then just turn their brains off and hate, honestly. I can't speak to how true that is, though. I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with all these characters being feminine in a very particular "cutesy" way rather than any sort of "female warrior archetype" type of femininity, if the distinction I'm trying to make there makes sense. From the looks of it, Marie Rose and Lucky Chloe seem like the sorts of characters who don't really show much combat inclination or experience in their affectations right up until they are literally in the process of doing a combat to somebody. They don't outwardly "seem like fighters", I suppose. So, they have miens that are typically actually DISassociated with combat proficiency despite in reality being, well, skilled fighters. I think that sort of thing can create a really fun contrast, personally, but I guess a lot of people are really put off by it.
I only know Ingrid from Project X Zone 2. I love her, she is very snarky but her heart is in the right place. She has trouble opening to other characters but creates the chance for very good interactions when she does.
I don't know if that's the case for Lucky Chloe at least - people love Lili, for example, and she doesn't give off a very MMA aura. Chloe just feels overly fanservicey - an idol who wears some kind of lingerie and cat paws... her design is just a bit much.
i was gonna say that i thought some of the hate (specifically from male fans) for these characters is because they dont seem to be overtly sexualized in the same way that many female characters in fighting games are. while yes they are sexualized (after all, Lucky Chloe does seem to wear lingerie), at least with Marie Rose and Ingrid, they fall more in line with the lolita fashion style, a style that was originally popularized among women in Japan specifically BECAUSE men didn't find it attractive, despite the (prevelently western) opinions on the fashion and infantilization of women today. theyre meant to be cute, not overly sexy
I think I can connect those two points, a consistent issue people have with characters called Mary Sue's is being unreasonably skilled at too many things. I've never been a big fan of the idol trope, in general and in fighting games, cause I find it weird to overhype/fetishize an industry I *only* ever hear shitty things about, but in fighting games I have another issue. I just struggle to believe you're as equally skilled in both idol performances and fighting, specifically because those are quite unrelated skills. One character that doesn't bother me this way is Bridget, who uses yoyo's both for combat and for performance art, meaning they're effectively the same skill applied differently. Otherwise, I struggle to believe you exist in this world, even within fantasy, because people who are skilled in multiple areas prioritize and develop expertize in one thing above the others.
I hated Marie and Honoka appearances, but that faded away once I saw them fighting and seeing that they were not just there to be two most popular anime tropes, but were design with actual care and style that's just as entertaining to watch as any other DOA character.
As a Honoka main, I agree with your statement. Also, both Honoka and Marie are pretty much popular in Japan, so I don’t think they’re going anywhere anytime soon come the next game, even if the western audience were to demand they be removed from the roster.
As for Lucky Chloe....we got Alisa, two bears, Aztec Pillar Man Shrek, a doctor whose fighting style is a pure WTF-fest, a wooden puppet....and Yoshimitsu. So the complaints about Tekken not being realistical or serious is no longer compatible or relevant. And thats been for a looooong while.
Meanwhile, two kangaroos and a dinosaur have a boxing match, a metal puppet is fighting a robot Sargent, a giant bioweapon is fighting a dude whose not only was stuck by lightning, lived, and can harness it to boost his reflexes, but was also experimented on to be better at everything, and a alien Mayan God turns into a chimera to fight a high school student who turns into a Devil when his grandfather SHOOTS HIM IN THE HEAD AFTERWARDS!
I just don't like lucky cloe because her fighting style is hard to guard against for me. It's a personal problem and I don't hate the character herself
Fact: The "Idol" archetype was the real problem. It was and never will be a popular thing outside of Japan and to most people, ESPECIALLY outsiders, it's cringe as hell. I myself am a man stricken with "yellow fever", love Japan as its own entity and without that aura of weebs who think they know Japan because they watch anime, and actually want to move into its countryside one day... And I fucking hate idols. That said, there's another factor here too: Idol archetypes get associated with general "anime girl" archetypes. What do I mean by this? Athena from KOF. People fucking HATE characters like this and Chloe is evocative of them. And it's not like being an Eddie Gordo clone was doing her any favors because, surprise surprise, people don't like fighting Eddie players either.
@@Impalingthorn the idol archetype isn't a problem. Its only a problem to you. I didn't complain about her having a fucking dress because that doesn't matter. In a video game where a bear and a peice of wood can fight against a demon, that isn't a valid point
As a Lucky Chloe main, i can understand the pain when fighting her, as I struggle myself despite knowing how she works. But i use her myself simply on a design basis. She appeals to me aesthetically and usually thats all I need to pick someone up. Its why i also main Xiaoyu, because i can make her look like my OC. Seeing people hate on her as a chatacter hurts my soul but it just makes me wanna get better with her. Knowing Harada likes her makes me happy though, so shes safe for now. Edit: lol the Tommy Wiseu got me
Outside of having Eddy getting shit on by her in both endings, I would say she's annoying to play as, and annoying to learn. Otherwise, having a character look like an idol is interesting.
I think you hit the nail on the head with Lucky Chloe and Marie/Honoka, though I'm surprised you didn't mention how much Capcom Fighting Jam was disliked by the FGC at the time, and how it's pretty much the poster child of the dark age of Capcom's fighting games in the early/mid 2000's. I feel as though the hatred towards Ingrid is at least somewhat linked to that, what with her debuting in that game.
That's actually my central reason for not liking Ingrid. I remember buying Fighting Jam with so much excitement because it was finally a new 2D Capcom fighting game... and it played, looked, and felt awful and lazy. And then Capcom went dark for almost 10 years in the FG department. Ingrid was basically the mascot of the game with her being the only new face, so whenever I see her, all I remember is that disappointment. It's totally unfair and illogical, but it's where my brain goes with the character and why I cringe every time.
It definitely FEELS like people perceive she's a representative of one of the worst 2D Fighting game Capcom has ever produced, and as a result her inclusion in Alpha 3 MAX might've felt like an attempt to push this "rando OC" into the world of Street Fighter. Which is interesting because that means people gave her much more importance than she really had in the grand scheme of things. Like if she were to become a Mascot Character (Her lore could easily help with that belief as well as being the only character with non-imported sprites in Fighting Jam) that Capcom would push everywhere and include on everything when in reality... No, it was just a neat character concept they could use and got to finish.
I'll say one good think about SFxT, it actually gave Able a real personality. Him being a cloudcucklander who loves animals and space aliens made me actually like him. Able now reminds me of Drax from the GotG films and that's awesome.
At least you're honest about it. Be True to yourself, King. Personally, I still find fighting her frustrating, though. Keeps crushing all my grabs and evading my frame traps just by attacking.
In the case of Marie and Honoka, both debuted in DOA5 as DLC characters, thus never had a chance to get any character development til 6, and even then they're somewhat "main" characters of the story til - once again - the ninjas take center stage.
@@WanArk86 Ash players are a myth, so lore, yeah. Partially because he stole Iori's powers and K's protagonist spot, partially (mostly) because they got baited by the cute white-haired girl in the cover actually being a cute white-haired boy and them being too weak to smash regardless.
As someone who only knows Ingrid from Project X Zone 2, I love her. She is snarky and funny and has trouble opening to others but her heart is in the right place. She has very genuine interactions with the rest of the cast (to be fair everyone does, it's a game written by Monolith Soft, human interactions is their jam). She does end up opening to other characters and creates very honest interactions.
I don't really hate Chloe, I just think she's similar to Eddie in being very gimmicky and unsafe on Shields. I really don't know much or care about tekken Lore and she doesn't give me trouble online or anything, she's just kind of obnoxious for new characters. Definitely something you'd see online and not in high level competitive play.
@@coolkidsclub9943 I don't see how people can compare Chloe to Eddy. They have nothing in common except... they both dance? She isn't even a gimmicky character since she doesn't really have long strings or confusing movements like Eddy. I feel like people hate her design so much that they don't even bother to learn what she can do. With that kind of attitude even Kazuya could be considered a gimmicky character
@@DXYS95 When you sit down and play her she feels like boring Eddie gameplay and yes her to the rhythm style strings are fucking gimmicky as fuck my dude something Eddie also does but isn't annoying about it or as blatantly obvious
I played alpha 3 max. I was much worse at fighting games at the time and had no clue who she was. I thought she was alright. one thing I love is that I've pretty much never heard someone say a character has 'no personality' and it turned out to be true. Usually the character's personality is boring, stoic, or one that's been seen a dozen times before but that is still a personality.
My Feedbacks on these characters (yeah I'm late): - Ingrid is a desperate attempt of Capcom to create their Athena from Psycho Soldiers/King of Fighters and she doesn't even try to look different - I honestly hope That Lucky will become more deep because she is cute and """"""fighting characters who use rhythm as major component""""""" is a rarity - I have no clue why people hate Marie Rose, maybe because she looks like a Loli? - The pink haired bimbo is just an excuse to introduce a 'mokujin' character in DoA. Mokujin fucking sucks.
@@13Kr4zYAzN13 Yup she's 100% just Ogre, they took what works well. Made her boringly cute the shit the JP side eats like it's crack yet the US side is weird about since the shit is do off hours would claim other wise. They love their cute shit too.
None of the reasons you gave explain the sheer disgust people from the communities show at the mere sight of these characters, imo. Also, yeah, Ingrid WAS kinda like a Capcom Athena, since Capcom All Stars was being developed by Ex-SNK devs and they introduced the code breakers trio as references to KoF.
I can't even say they're hated. A lot of people like these characters, it's more accurate to say they're controversial I guess? And that's just because there are morale busy bodies who don't live and let live.
Pretty much, aye. And it's not even a mystery on why they're controversial themselves, just look at their renders and you can tell exactly what people might find annoying. Hell, I honestly dislike Lucky Chloe a fair bit but I do admit the outrage was rather ridiculous - like most character outrages out there. Except for D'vorah's. That was earned hatred.
If namco added bruce, ak or marduk before release, i wouldnt have give a shit about chloe. However paying for my fav charachters while this piece of shit coming with the game, pissed me off.
I was introduced yo Ingrid through Project X Zone 2 and thought she was neat. Had no idea until later that apparebtly people hated her and I didn't understand why.
Tbh I like Ingrid's design but I hate the whole Mary Sue Alien goddess owner of Psycho power stuff, wish she got added again with a new background story. The whole "Her design doesn't fit SF" And "Too anime" Are absurd arguments as SF has been anime since the alpha days.
Thank you for this video. I personally like these types of characters (Ingrid specifically), and I do not quite understand the hatred for them. It's nice to see the echo chamber break and someone bigger actually question why people think the way they do.
I'm not a fighting game expert/pro, but I do love all these character that been mentioned. There character' are interesting and not just another bland cookie cutter. I love that Ingrid's inconsistent backstory and fights like Athena of King of Fighters. It's awesome that Lucky Chloe is a foreigner who love sJapan pop culture, who acts like a cute idol on camera, but a total delinquent in real life. Marie Rose fakes her cuteness most of the time,, but a good egg when her friends and mistress Helena are concerned. While Honoka's timid nature lies her monstrous power (originated from his father)
I am glad that Lucky Chloe character exists even if their personality is very annoying to me, the gameplay is very well tuned to make the opponent annoyed, it is like a weaponized annoyance. Though I kinda chose to have a headcannon that she actually has a much more Kazyua like personality and that the personality she presents is just the "cute" persona, while beneath that mask is a cruel and calculated sociopath. And what would make me like here more in the next instalment is that her persona gets to kind of slip off from time to time in gameplay. This would give the character the actual depth.
Ok, long one: TLDR: _Isn't Chloe supposed to be annoying, and why aren't we talking about playstyles?_ So, I don't actually play any of the listed games, but I HAVE heard of Honoka and especially Lucky Chloe. My confusion is that I thought Chloe was _supposed_ to be hard to like, and I kinda like her for that. She's two-faced, presenting a sickeningly cutsey facade while her real personality is a jerkish b- _young lady_ that will kick people in the 'nads for not meeting her unreasonable standards. Her playstyle is an aggressive poke-centric one that punishes any gaps in your defense with frustratingly huge damage. A LOT of people hate the buriko-idol archetype, she checks that box. EVERYONE hates the self-centered Karen archetype, she checks that box. Her playstyle is obnoxious one to go against. I honestly thought she was a successful design, like F.A.N.G. in SFV, she was supposed to be obnoxious. On that note, I don't think I've sen that come up at all in this video at least: the characters movesets and playstyles. Design, animations and personality are one thing, but how do Honoka and Ingrid _feel_ to play and play against? Is that a contributing factor? My only regular fighting game is Smash Bros, and zoners and characters with counters in those games are very annoying and have contributed to some of the most contentious characters on the roster... do these characters have something in their movesets that contributes to them being poor matchups for the rest of the roster, or just feel bad to play against?
@@LThanhHao232 the thing is, most capoerists train only for the game and not interested in training for a street fight or a competition. But kicks can break your jaw and throws will bring you to the ground. If that doesn't count as "work", than what ever is?
I remember friends disliking Ingrid because she felt like a KoF ripoff. And in that sense I kind of agree, she kind of feels like a low effort mash up of Athena Asamiya and Kula Diamond. Personally, I hate that we never got a decent release of alpha 3 Max. To this day I have no idea if she's actually any good.
To be fair, considering what I've from Thorgi's Arcade video on that game, your friend might have been right ? The director of that game hailed from SNK and had worked on KoF, and apparently there was another Code Holder in her original game who was pretty much a copy & paste of K' from KoF.
I still remember Seeing Capcom Fighting Evolution in stores when it first released and I didnt know what to expect so I was kind of excited and bought it. From that time I played the game I only remember since Ingrid was the newest sprite in the game I ended up using her and only remember the sparkles, not much else. Loved how everyone made fun of her in Project X Zone 2 and a few characters pointed out shes just a plot device lol.
Analyzing these characters and their design patterns leave me with a conclusion that a portion of the FGC hate their designs because it resembles cute E-girls.
About the "capoeira would not work on a real fight" bit: Capoeira was invented by slaves as a way to train martial arts by disguising it as a dance. And as someone that practiced it a bit when I was younger I can say that the time I accidentaly made contact with someone from my own age, the foot I hit their face in a spin hurt af for an entire week, while the boy didn't came back to school for some days. Capoeira can absolutely wreck you up if you remove the dancing bits and actually make contact.
Its not the martial art I think he is referring to, but more so how its potrayed in Tekken. You aren't going to beat someone with Capoeira the same way you do in Tekken since I don't think anyone could just juggle someone for days in a fight.
Capoeira gets credit in actually being able to hit someone. Some of these fake martial arts are beyond obviously unrealistic even when watching it in a video game. But nobody in a fight is gonna walk up to you while you start dancing around on the ground. You’ll be lucky if they don’t do a normal front kick, jump on top of you, or any other sort of moves rendering capoeira completely useless on its own.
@@bonfist7277You have no idea what you're talking about. Obviously you would not use the dancing parts on a real fight, that would be really F-ing dumb. Capoeira is not only effective, it is battle proven because it was used by fugitive slaves to fight armed soldiers and actually win. The herradic moves throw the opponent off and then you hit then in an angle they were not expecting, that's the main fighting point of Capoeira.
the whole "having little girls dance around is okay because other stuff in the game is unrealistic" was by far his worse argument in the video. This man doesn't understand why a 6 foot tall, musclebound sumo is more reasonable to be in a fight then a little girl with no muscles doing silly dances. Also he's just factually wrong. Sumo is literally considered a form of martial arts. I don't know how someone could say this when being s Sumo means you're huge guy who's incredibly strong and knows how to grapple. Saying Sumo isn't realistic in a street fight is like saying Olympic wrestling isn't real because they cant do dive kicks
@@joedatius I'm just gonna say that the first every UFC fight involved a sumo wrestler going down in 20 seconds to a savate practitioner (I don't know the technical term)
This is the first time i've seen Marie and Honoka gameplay and they look kinda fun, outside of having a few "girly" stances they know how to throw a punch and do throws. Honestly i'm glad for silly characters in fighting games, cute girls included, it makes games more varied and it's not like there isn't a single major fighting game franchise with dumb stuff, after all most were inspired by classic martial arts movies and you know how silly yet enjoyable those are.
I don't really have any feelings for or against any of these characters, but you pointing out the details in animation for Honoka and Marie Rose made me appreciate the work put into them.
That all goes to shit when you realize Marie Rose is outdone by any other evasive character or Leifang completely. Also watch Honoka’s animations more closely there’s 1-2 frames of animation that she’s stuck in the original characters stance. Raidou doesn’t have that at all so appreciate that. Also, any character can H cancel any stance in DOA, so Honoka’s transitions to other stances from one another isn’t new nor is it looking smooth because any character can H cancel their stance to be in neutral again.
Don't hate the character. Hate the people that "write" LC to shit on a classic character for the first game that She's in. That is a bad publicity stunt, no matter how You look at it.
There is a simple answer. You're not selling the hits the dish out. Unless you have some form of Ki energy, Sakura or Rose from SF, watching a 110lb girl punch a 200lb buff dude, bear, robot doesn't look damaging at all.
I think with the recent craze about Smash Bros, you can certainly add Pyra/Mythra to the mix. My take on why people think these characters don't "belong" is because they're really insecure. For god knows how long the FGC and the ESport aspect of these games are always trying to portray themselves as "SEWIUS AND PWOFESIWONAW sports in electronic format" kinda like StarCraft, LoL, Overwatch and CS GO already did, and such, these "Kawaii UwU" characters may detract from the seriousness that they all so want funny specially because some of the previous mentioned also have ridiculous UwU characters(Zoe and D.va). But let's be honest, fighting games are not like traditional sports, their most close parallel is Wrestling. Characters, players, roles, how to entice the audience. Wrestling and FGC embodies the serious, the grudges, the audience and specially the ridiculous/zany and should be looked like that.
Fighting gamers are more insecure about these loli characters because the community gained some reputation of being degenerates (Just look at smash bros players twitter) and many dont want to be associated with these characters that are going to reinforce these stereotypes. You'll never see the same reaction in, say, the Anime FGC community, where these archetypes are bread and butter pretty much by design.
I believe most of the reason for P/M's negative reception was, on top of already having a wealth of generic sword wielders, they got two more in one, only to find out that they're some of the most braindead spammable characters. I'll bet money that even Sephiroth would have gotten just as bad a feedback if he could safely mash his side smash or neutral special. It ended up becoming a case of "this character doesnt really serve much of a purpose AND they embody playstyles I dont like? bad character".
@Will Diesel i wish she is a DLC for SF5. Ingrid in Project X Zone is cheerful, fun and hilarious. I would enjoy if Capcom develop a little bit of her actual lore or personality and make her interact with more SF characters. But i dont really care because she's not a SF character. She's a Capcom character.
@Will Diesel Remy, Twelve, Rufus and Necalli's personality is a bit eh for me, especially Necalli and Rufus. Rufus is just dumb and boastful. Necalli had some potential but constantly got trashed in the story. Ingrid, on the other hand, is pretty funny and cheerful in Project X Zone. Capcom also have a lot of room to develop her actual story and relate that to her fun personality. She's definitely a character that people would like if Capcom maintain her current personality and develop a good backstory for her.
I haven't heard of Ingrid before this video but... honestly I can see why there's that reception. Design wise she doesn't look anything like what her backstory implies... Goddess time traveler, but literally just random girl in a school uniform.
@@philithegamer8265 Yet A Sakura A School Girl,(Til 5) Green Wild Electric Beast Man, A Fortune Teller, Abraham Lincoln, A Ninja Rocking Nikes, A Fat Annoying Marital Artist who won't shut up, A Luchadores who sucks at cooking, and a DBZ Demon is fine for Street Fighter? Man cut the the Bullshit.
I think it's a sense of them being small cutesy girls that causes them to think as they are weak and need to be protected, that they shouldn't be able to hold their own against these "monsters"
Actuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuually There is a big reason for Abel "not having a personality" He's one of Bison's "dolls" and suffers from amnesia So yeah not the best character to choose for that.
Dude, Marie Rose and Honoka are hated because Koei Tecmo keep shove them down our throats, even putting them where they don't belong, like a Dynasty Warriors-like game. I get it that you said that we wouldn't play these fully fanservice games where they appeared in, but did you even take a look at the current state of Dead Or Alive and the way Koei Tecmo has been treating it? They have completely ignored a big portion of the fanbase and just use Marie Rose and Honoka as their "tickets" for easy and cheap money for the current japanese "fanbase" which is just a bunch of otakus who probably didn't even grow up with the series. Why else is the current focus of DOA just on the japanese-exclusive game like Xtreme Venus where they barely even have the OG ladies and it's mostly dominated by a buch of short little girls who even have the same face and body proportions of Marie and Honoka? Because Koei Tecmo has decided to completely neglect the fighting scene altogether of Dead Or Alive and now just using the Xtreme series for easy money. It's clear that they don't have any faith in the franchise and now they only rely on the Japanese otakus. It's not that hard to understand why Marie Rose and Honoka would get so much hate. They are the reason why DOA is doomed as a franchise and it will only take a miracle for it to come back properly.
Someone gets it, I see. Not to mention that both of them have the appeal of a cancerous tumor, both visually and sound-wise. Seriously, screw their nails-on-the-chalkboard voices.
its really funny how people got mad about Lucky Chloe being an idol, and then the Tekken guys made that fighting game mode on one of Idolm@aster's gacha games
Narrator: "Capoeira would not work in a fight, but it works in a fighting game." 1800s capoeiristas: "Am I a joke to you? Do you not know our history?" Marcus "Lelo" Aurelio: "Hold my beer!"
@@NuwandaLunaDragon Haha! But seriously tho... Fun fact: Before it was watered down thanx 2 government bullshit in da late 19th century to perhaps earliest of 20th century (it was outlawed), capoeira actually had its own grappling techs in its system and they were comparable 2 what modern BJJ is. Trust me! There r those ppl who r rediscovering what was lost during capoeira's "waterdown," and there's at least one of 'em on UA-cam dat I've occasionally seen!
Ok I never understood that they were hated for other things then just "cheapness", at least for Lucky Chloe. In the sense that they are easy and powerful
Lot's of characters are hated for being cheap, but that doesn't mean people hate their design and how they fit into the world of their respective game. There is different kinds of "hate" I guess. I hated fighting Bruce in T6 with his b+2 insta counter stun like Steve's b+1, but I would never say they don't fit the world of Tekken because they are badass and definitely great for the roster. Kick Josie out and bring back Bruce.
@@lonewander6772 Hmm, maybe that distinction is hard for people to make. Much like me they hear "I hate ..." and assume it is for gameplay reasons. However, I do not agree that the characters do not fit, they do. They might just not suit your style and that is ok ; )
@@Tibazz They don't fit. You might be new to Tekken if you think they do. And no the bears do not count. Just look at the trajectory of Tekken and how they embraced the wacky parts too much in the later installments. There's a reason why legacy characters are generally more popular than the newcomers starting from T6 onwards. Also hating a fighting game character isn't all about gameplay. Fighting games still have an established world and lore that made people love it. An aesthetic that brought them to it. And a change in that to cater the new gen isn't going to always sit well. You can tell with what type of characters they made for Tekken as it went on. Chloe is just one. Kat, Claudio, Bob, Alisa, Josie, etc. They stray farther and farther from Tekken's initial feel which was inspired by VF. I get it, new times, new audiences. I'm an oldschool Tekken fan. Obviously I'm not going to like the new anime-ish direction.
@@Tibazz I DEFINITELY agree that characters like Lucky Chloe fit in the game because like I told “Lone Wander”, Tekken is a Japanese game developed and published by a Japanese company located in Tokyo, Japan, a country known and perceived as weird. So it makes sense that a lot of people are gonna defend Lucky Chloe’s addition to the roster, considering that we didn’t mind the numerous of ridiculous characters of the game. Yes, everybody else is free to dislike Lucky Chloe, but the characters that we have a personal dislike for are the sole reason why we need to remind ourselves that “CHARACTER SELECTION” exist across the screen for a reason.
"Capoeira would not work in a fight-" Actually it is considered flat out one of the most dangerous and effective fighting styles on the planet. In fact it was created by slaves who then went on to use it to launch a fully successful slave rebellion.
@@kingsouther Eh it wasn't designed with grappling in mind, so any style that focuses on such and can ground them has a distinct advantage. No style is perfect, but that doesn't negate the fact that capoeira is still highly dangerous.
Honestly, I find it genuinely hilarious and sad that it’s mainly us western gamers that are hellbent on gatekeeping Japanese games just because we find something we don’t like about it.
Yep, and also sad players are acting like the games should only cater to them and no other audience, the assertiveness from western gamers are quite disgusting.
maybe if so many Japanese games and media stopped sexualizing underage girls for once that wouldn't happen. But hey lets ignore the rampant open pedophilia within the entire Anime industry alone.
I don't know a whole lot about these franchises, but I'm a firm believer in letting people have fun, and if people have fun playing these characters and the developers had fun making them, then I really don't see a problem with them
I guess Lucky Chloe is hated because of the stereotype of "gamer girl" that was starting by the time Tekken 7 was announced, but I didn't even know about the genuine hate the community had for all the other girls. Ｉｔ ｒｅａｌｌｙ ｍａｋｅｓ ｙｏｕ ｔｈｉｎｋ
@@Violent_Wolfen pretty sure harada just wanted a rhythm based character and doesn't really pay attention to the outside world much when making his games remember they start making these games years in advance, it's not like they can just scrap hundreds of man hours because people had a gamer girl problem on another continent halfway across the world
@@abirneji You missed the point. The point is some legacy characters like Eddie should have already been put in before adding new ones like Lucky Chloe. That would have taken most of the sting off. Then again, this is a guy that charged people $30 for frame data .
Which is absurd if you think about it. D.Va in overwatch rocks the exact same trope but seems to be loved. The difference is probably that she has the mech to back it up.
With regards to all those characters, the saltiness seems to come the most from dudebro's who like to pretend that these fighting games are "serious". The shitstorm over Lucky Chloe was hysterical. Marie Rose is fine because, like you pointed out, her personality is in-grained with everything about her character. On the otherhand, I do feel that Honoka's disposition is a bit more irritating because the character (among others), seems like she was added due to the popularity of "lolicon"/moeblob characters. With regards to DOA's traditional story prior to Honoka's inclusion, it felt like pretty much every other character fit in some way. In DOA6, Honoka's inclusion felt very "forced" in the story affecting a lot of its direction for the worse.
Sorry but I find this video a little disingeious and weirdly deflective. It's kind of simple and justified why people hate the characters, at least for the first two characters. You don't need to sidestep around why they hated them, because it's pretty obvious. 1. Ingrid just doesn't fit street fighter, even as a non-canon character. Period. She's not a martial artist. She's not based on a realistic concept, she just has magic goddess powers and that's it. People get mad at those who want her to be introduced to canon are justified because it flips too many things on it's head. She's some overpowered schoolgirl that belongs in a magical girl anime more than anything. For god's sake, she flies off into space on a buddha statue while in the cosmos. Street Fighter has had fantastical and weird things happen in it, but never to the point where a literal goddess comes in and does shit like that. Like, how the fuck am I supposed to be badass motherfucking Bison is actually much weaker than some random cutesy schoolgirl because SHE invented pyscho power? It's nuts. 2. Lucky Chloe's hate was fully justified, especially at the time when people speculated she'd replace Eddy. She's an annoyingly goofy character who seems way more like cheap weaboo bait rather than attempting to fit in with the rest of the tekken veterans. She just didn't feel like she was in the right place, and not counting the guest characters, she still doesn't exactly fit all these years later. She's not even a funny joke character, unlike Kuma and Mokujin. As for Honkers and Marie, I never really understood their hate because they actually fit into DOA well. Their just a little more on the "anime" side of things than the other girls, because to be honest, a pink-haired girl who's really shy yet drop-dead sexy and also a kick-ass martial artist (without any trainning) seems more like an anime trope than anything else. The only striking difference is that Marie has a flat chest as opposed to the DOA females who are known for having big boobas.
1. I'm not sure what you mean when you say Ingrid is "not based on a realistic concept", but there are several non-martial artists in SF that have very unrealistic aspects about them (Bison, Blanka, Abigail). Overpowered schoolgirl? That's not any weirder than an overpowered self-proclaimed god who's half blue and half red. Flying into space on a Buddha? Is that really any more goofy than Zangief destroying the Psycho Drive by repeatedly slamming Honda onto it? Her being stronger than Bison? You seem to have forgotten than Dan is also stronger than Bison. TOTALLY CANON. 2. The fear of replacing a beloved classic like Eddy does warrant some backlash, sure. But from what I can tell, none of it has gone away even with Eddy's return. Also, I remember hearing that Josie might be a sort-of replacement for Bruce (because she was the closest thing to his fighting style? Idk) It may not be true, but if it is, where's all the Josie hate? Does no one really care about Bruce? And calling her "annoyingly goofy" is purely subjective. Zack, Dan & Johnny Cage are all loved for their goofiness, why is Chloe different? "Cheap weeaboo bait" just seems to mean "cutesy", so moving on. "Fit in with the rest of the Tekken veterans"? You mean you want to see more of the same thing? More Mishimas? Or bears? Or other animals? What's wrong with trying something new? It seems like anything goes in Tekken, so a fighting pop idol fits in with all the martial artists, robots and mutants. Bonus question: Do you happen to play DOA or know its lore? There's a reason Hono-cow is a kick-ass fighter "without any training".
@@Kanti852 1. I don't think you get what I mean. If you look at a lot of SF characters, they all look like they have some sort of "fight" in them. Take Sakura and Karin, although they are cute young schoolgirls, they both have a genuine fighting spirit AND they both practice a real martial art. Ingrid doesn't have either. She doesn't have a style. She's way too cutesy in her movements, and her sparkly magic powers are her only means of doing real damage. She wasn't introduced early on, so it's hard to believe her existence with the stuff we know about SF. And it's also about feeling the realistic belivablity of a character. A 7 foot tall muscular man with long flowing hair and is colored half-red, half-blue? Yes, it's completely believable that he's a really strong fighter with god-like characteristics. Ingrid does not give off that impression. I look at her, and instead of buying into her concept she's a goddess who may or may not come from an alien planet, I simply think "oh this is just anime schlock. somebody just wanted a cute schoolgirl they could ogle or probably masturbate over". Also it's not the canon endings that bother people. No one really cares that Ingrid defeats bison in her own ending. It's the fact that they once stated that Ingrid CREATED psycho power, therefore canonically making her much stronger than Bison who's body is dying because of controlling psycho power. 2. Lucky Chloe sucks. And so does Josie Rizal. Johnny Cage, Dan, and Zack DO NOT feel like they were written just to pander to people who like pop idols or whatever Lucky Chloe is supposed to be. Joke characters like Johnny Cage are COMPETENT MARTIAL ARTISTS who just happen to be silly or comic relief. Lucky Chloe and Josie were not included because they were funny joke characters, they were included because they were cute girls. Either Harada included them because he thought they would sell more copies to people who are obsessed with having cute girls in their video games, or he just had a boner for them. That's what I honestly think why these characters exist, and a lot of others as well. And no, I don't play DOA enough to know its lore. I just like the boobies. I personally still think that Marie Rose and Honoka look a little to inexperinced to have such skill, but it's not that a big deal because you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. And also because many people don't really take the lore as seriously as they do other fighting games.
@@ermacn.cheese726 Honestly not trying to pick a fight here, but there are issues with your points. Sakura and Karin do NOT look like fighters. Their designs are nothing more than modified sailor uniforms with sparring gloves. If you took the gloves off, no one who was ignorant of SF could tell you that they were fighters. Their fighting spirit and identity as martial artists are not conveyed through any part of their design aside from the gloves (Sakura’s headband can only really convey sportiness). And why does it matter that she doesn’t use a particular style? Blanka, Abigail, Rose, Menat, Necro and Necalli all fit in this category. Why does it matter that magic is her main or only means of doing damage? She has one of, if not the smallest frames in the game’s history so using primarily magic makes sense. And I still cannot understand how you can accept the absurdities of old and not the ones of more recent games/characters. You also spoke about the realistic believability of someone like Gill, but I never said he was unbelievable. I said he was weird, comparable even to Ingrid. As for calling her “schlock”, that really is just your own personal taste. You have a right to it, but it’s irrelevant to making a point. She may not look like a goddess to you or any number of people, but they’re mythological beings anyway, so in a game they can really look like anything. And so what if she created Psycho power? First of all, that’s currently not true canon; second, Ingrid’s “canon” is consistently inconsistent as mentioned in the video; and third, Psycho power is a supernatural energy, so it’s believable that it was created by a supernatural being. Idk how the 2 characters’ powers compare, but if Gill is a “god” and can be beaten, then so can Ingrid. I’ve read up on Bison and it seems he has fully mastered Psycho power, and the only thing holding him back is his mortal body which is impressive enough. Ingrid is a goddess so, as far as I can tell, that’s the only reason it’s not an issue for her. Who said Cage, Dan or Zack were for idol fans? I said they were goofy, which was your complaint about Chloe. And their competence in fighting has nothing to do with that goofiness. So again, why is only Chloe’s goofiness annoying? And you say her and Josie were included only because they were cute girls. I say, what’s wrong with that? Like I said, it seems like anything goes for playable fighters, so why are aliens, bears, and stubby-legged robots more acceptable than a pop star speaking Engrish? Also, like it or not, idol culture is a huge MAINSTREAM thing in Japan, NOT just “weeaboos”, and not just males either. It’s far more likely that these characters were added for more (Japanese) mainstream appeal.
@@Kanti852 Sakura and Karin are kinda realistic in the sense that "hey, they may be annoyingly cutesy schoolgirls, but they practice martial arts and are still human beings who want to win the tournament". Ingrid isn't that. From the (non-canon as of now) info we have on her, she swoops in and wants to kill Bison and stop the satsui no hado, despite not knowing why or how. And Sakura and Karin are early characters, before the waifu craze pushed japanese game devs to shoehorn that kind of stuff into their game. So you wouldn't easily suspect them for being cheap masturbation bait as you would nowadays. It's a good thing Ingrid is not-canon, because her creating psycho power would be utterly stupid and undermine the threat of M. Bison. The problem with Ingrid becoming canon (story beats and all) goes with a lot of series: you have to introduce it early on. If Ingrid was introduced as early as SF2 as a goddess who chapherones the human fighters, it's still silly and dumb but whatever, at least it was hinted early on. But as late as SF6 and introducing Ingrid as a goddess should rightfully piss off anyone who gives a crap about SF's story, because she still just outclasses all the major villains without looking the part and her suddenly power scaling. I never said Johnny Cage, Dan or Zack were for Idol fans. Lucky Chloe IS for idol fans or whatever cutesy kawaii girl diehards that I personally find stupid, there's almost no debate she doesn't exist other than anything that that. A wooden dummy, a wonky robot, and a literal goddamn bear (there are no confirmed aliens in Tekken I think) are actually solid attempts at a funny joke and are unexpectedly weird. Lucky Chloe is not funny. Humor is subjective, but even so, Lucky Chloe feels much more like bait for idol fans more than attempting to parody it. She's annoying as hell, same with Josie and other high-pitched anime-based chicks newer fighting games tend to like. I don't find Mokujin, Kuma, or Combot annoying particularly because they don't talk. Nor do they feel like they were shoehorned to chase after those who like a certain thing (in this case, Idol culture).
Weebs? I would think a LOT of weebs would be more happy to see Chloe rather than hate her existence since she relates to them as anime fans. I would say those specific people are antis.
(Well I lost my original post because mobile UA-cam sucks ass but anyway) As an outsider to the DOA franchise i think i can kinda understand the issues with Marie Rose and Honoka 1. They look and kinda act cutesy and underaged. DOA isn't a stranger to underaged girls, Kasumi and Ayame were underaged in prior games, but they never looked and acted as such afaik. Meanwhile we straight up have Goth Lolita and Japanese school girl defaults who, from what I've seen so far, act kinda childish. Now if they were young like how the other girls were introduced I'd think whatever but apparently they were 18 on introduction which makes me think 2. They're explicitly bait characters. Now, DOA is also no stranger to using its assets to its advantage, Volleyball anyone?, but these two feels like they were for a specific group that fell hook, line and sinker for it. To the point where 3. They've effectively become the faces of the franchise despite being extremely recent. Like said in the video, these two get pushed the hardest since they have recent popularity, which, for long time fans can be annoying since most of the characters with decades of good will built are getting sidelined by the new bait. While it's true that pushing the new popular thing is smart, it doesn't mean people are happy about it. Like I said, I'm an outsider and thus have no issue with them since I don't care to begin with but I think I can understand the hatred.
@a HERO that doesn’t know what protect means yeah, out of the 4 characters, Ingrid is the only one I don't understand at all Lucky Chloe i get, Marie Rose and Honoka i get, Ingrid is the odd one out
I agree with this mostly, but I just wanted to add that watching Marie rose and honoka in the story mode for doa6 is what really made me hate them. I can just look past characters that don't interest me, but when they more or less become the protagonists, and are annoying as hell throughout the entire story, then they become a problem imo.
@@JameboHayabusa This. Conceptually, the story wasn't any more terrible than any other DOA I've played, but when they were on the screen the quality of it's execution dipped immensely. Whoever worked on it was maybe trying to make people hate them, it seems.
Ingrid seems to be kind of like the word “moist” -people only claim to hate her because of peer pressure, you’re “supposed” to hate her. In addition to the factors you mentioned with Chloe I think another reason people hated her so much is because she’s “too Japanese” or “too anime” for a lot of the American fans, who like pretending Tekken is an Americanized, “manly” game series and having a cute idol is way too far. She belongs in the game way more than fucking Negan, that’s for sure. Marie Rose and Honoka are by far the dumbest ones. None of the complaints about them really make any sense seeing as DOA’s reputation is and has always been being a booba game. Marie’s only real difference from the rest of the cast is that she has a small chest, lmao. Also, DOA has always been an “actually legit fighting game”. People just overlooked it because the marketing focused entirely on booba and not its aspects as a fighter. Having to compete with Tekken didn’t help. As I said with Lucky Chloe, the only thing people hate about these characters is this kind of macho American hostility to “cuteness” or moe aesthetics for being “too Japanese” or “too anime”. You see the same kind of attitude with the hostility we used to see towards things like Final Fantasy protagonists being attractive, “pretty” men. It’s honestly kind of xenophobic at the end of the day.
My limited experience with people who dislike these types of characters come with all sort of elaborate over justifications as to why these are objectively bad characters but there’s this underlying just purely emotional hatred of anything they deem too girly. Not to say that there aren’t people out there who can dislike these characters for legit reasons, but there really are these guys out there who just misoginistically hate girly things.
You can have a bear, a kangaroo, a nerd, a succubus, a robot kid, a dog, a cactus, a skeleton, a demon, a fking CAR and Pepsiman as fighters, but don't you dare put a kawaii anime girl, cuz that doesn't belong in a fighting game for some reason.
The one thing I dislike about Lucky Chloe is that she vocally telegraphs her attacks, so your enemy literally hears what you're going to do. I don't wanna play a character like that.
I don't think the character are bad but the game which they have been created started the downfall of DOA into DLC heaven. Even today, I still found funny that a game have more than 1000$ of costume dlc and how much worse their greed turn out in DOA 6.
It's really simple. It's a sense of fake, machismo men that think these games are all supposed to be super serious and hardcore and edgy. You see the same people in the Dragon Ball community complaining ANY time a character that isn't hardass goku or vegeta on the screen. They've built a false representation of their own sense of masculinity into the franchise. Who do these people main when they complain in the most violent and sexist ways? It's brian, jin, devil jhin, dragonuv some kind of "cool edgelord that don't give no craps about anyone" They're projecting. And characters like Chloe shatters that projection, the illusion that they're playing a cold, hard, sweaty, and edgy game built for macho men and cool dudes. I don't even play Chloe or like the archetype. I identify with cool/badass women like Lidia and Baiken, but I don't hate the girly girls at all. They have every right to exist. These people on the other hand believe "THEIR" game is being taken away from them by characters like Chloe.
Seriously. Being mad at power levels is absurd. In KOF, you know who one the strongest characters is? Athena. She can make people explode with her mind, fly without Chizuru's help, kill monsters that covered the entire earth in darkness, use her blade to again, make people explode and is implied to be the canon heroine of SNK Heroines alongside Kula, and can be wanked to scale to the Goddess Athena, which can destroy whole universes in her games. The only reason she loses is the same reason Nakoruru doesnt kill people on KOF14. It is forbidden to kill your foes. and yet some people love her. The same goes the other way. Sakura and Asuka from SF and Tekken are canon fodder, low tier in power levels and would never beat any villian or important character in a fight yet people are in love with them and do not wince and complain at the sight of them beat Akuma or Ogre. Honoka also is justified in her power level since she is Kasumi/Ayane's sister.
oh, no, people hate Athena, too she's just been in too long to get rid of easily now, though, so they aren't as loud note that all the characters in the video came in part way through their respective series, unlike Athena
@@Iffem Well, i main Athena and really like her, so i really cannot say i want her gone. She fits right in KOF as that never was a "buff boys" game at any point. Also, You are wrong if you think Athena is an KOF original character. She is ffrom Psycho Soldier and has her own PS1 Survival Horror game.
@@luigifan001 i think you misunderstood me. I never said she was KoF original... hell, a surprisingly small number of KoF characters are, especially if you're looking at characters who have been around in the KoF series from early on. Athena got into KoF early on and i'm pretty sure she has a perfect attendance record for the series, so no matter how much people hate her, they know she's not gonna be excluded.
If tournament regs would’ve let me, I’d have tossed my Tae Kwon Do uniform for a frilly skirt in a heartbeat back when I was a young teenager and competed every chance I got. At least the pants were comfortable, though.
Technically the argument that Ingrid doesn't fit in the street fighter is kinda valid considering she was designed by a former member of SNK after they went bankrupt the first time
@@Doktor_Jones Yes but also no her first appearance was in a different game that got canceled where she was gonna be one of three main characters all and all three of them were designed by a former SNK Developer who was fresh off of on of the many bankruptcies the company so he stil hadl the SNK design philosophy in him not that it would have mattered since the game was supposed to be 3D so some people wouldn't have noticed but the game didn't test well with audiences during the first preview so capcom to save money cut the project and had him work on a cheap crossover game and he just put her in there
I liked all these characters and there designs! But I'm a simple lad give me cute girl get a thumbs up from me. I also like how when I say I like Ingrid my friend get salty. Also I really like Honoka and think she's one of the color move copycat character.
Going to be honest I don't really mind Ingrid or lucky Chloe at all in fact I actually really like to play lucky Chloe against one friend of mine because he just cannot deal with them lows Mary Rose and Hanoka on the other hand I do wish weren't pushed as much but I don't absolutely hate the characters just wish we put a little more focus on some of the legacy characters
They struck gold with Marie and Honako and seemed to adopt the mindset of "if you aren't popular we don't care" at least that's how it seems as an outsider. Tho I am happy Marie's popularity got team ninja to add in more small breasted characters.
Marie and Honoka in a nutshell. They came onto the scene late into DOA5 and Japan loved them but the West was indifferent to disliking them mostly. Of course Koei caters to their main audience in Japan so they make more appearances and have a pretty big role in DOA6's story. (Said story sucked, a lot, but they were far from the only problem with it and not really the main problem either.) Much to the western player's dismay. Also a lot of people seem to say they're "too moe." Forgetting Kasumi used to have a baby face.
Thats not true though, they are very popular in the west too. The only difference is that here, people who hate them like to scream it so everyone can hear xD.
@@jamg25 well, TO ME, because she looks like a "Capcom attempt" to make a character like Athena Asamiya. I know he isn't an idol like Athena, but the looks, the style of her powers, and her inconsistency as a character due to how and when she was portraited in the fighting games she appeared didn't help at all. Plus, why they never gave a chance to D.D. or Rook for example? Why they kept investing on her? Well, I'm glad that now she has been reduced to an easter egg only.
@@captainmega6310 How can one rip off something when they themselves are the original creator? No, seriously. As much as Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting is lauded for ripping off Street Fighter, people forget that the team for those games used to work on Street Fighter. Its kind of like complaing about how Marvel ripped off DC with the Fantastic Four (stealing from Challengers of the Unknown), or vice versa with Guardian (stealing from Captain America). ALL of those characters are created by Jack Kirby.
I think for Ingrid it wasn't really ruined canon, but from what I remember people saying was Canon power level. People liked the precedent that Cody, Charlie, Oro, & more had placed. Then for it to be changed to magic, magic, & magic (Then in SFV killing one of the considered strongest with bullet), I think took away from the "Street Fighter." While there's obviously loads of magic, strength became outclassed immensely. For Lucky Chloe, I think I could only remember Twitter anger over sexualization or high femininity? Though the Eddie argument I could see, he always held an important place to alot of people, even those who played competitively (Love or hate), so to see what was basically his moveset just inferior, probably annoyed people. (She was also a noob killer, so with that boost no doubt she'd gain notoriety with the inclusion of so much comeback potential) For Hinoka and Hidori, honestly I can't think of much, I actually like what they both represent. But if I were to assume, jumping to face of an IP probably rubbed people the wrong way. It'd be like if Cammy and Chun got dropped for C.Viper & Sakura. Keeping Ryu & Ken, it'd have 3 Shotos as faces and then completely negating how much importance Cammy and Chun held. Granted I'm not too sure on DoA so this is only assumption as to how people felt.
I don't understand the hatred. However I do understand the reasoning- I think the criticism of being "unrealistic" or "not fitting" or "too anime" are a misspoken rebuttal, or rather just not well enunciated. Bears and Puppets and sexy women are fine because they can "reasonably" put up a fight- as in, it's not too far beyond suspension of disbelief. Then you get non-fighters who are literally just little girls, their background doesn't speak much to combat skills. The problem with that logic is, this is video games. And that's not to say "anything goes", but rather there's a lot of room for creativity, some people just need to pull the stick outta their ass. Honestly Ingrid looks dope
Bro, your excuse for Lucky Chloe *REALLY* sucks, which doesn’t really surprise me after knowing what kind of weeb you are. But let me explain why Lucky Chloe is hated. Tekken 7 in general has possibly the worst cast of new original characters in the entire franchise. Shaheen is basically Banco‘s version of Rashid just blander, Katarina is Rule 63 Miguel, Josie has the stereotypical „i don’t want to fight“ attitude whilst just copying Bruce‘s playstyle, Gigas is just a brainless Marduk, Kazumi is the biggest wasted potential in Tekken history who only brought up more questions than answers and then of course, we get Lucky Chlie, a J-Pop star with all the annoyance of one too. The only character i can praise is Claudio because he is an interesting and unique character that contributes to the main ongoing story, even if he looks like a Final Fantasy 15 character (oh the irony). And i would even give Gigas the pass because he actually looks really cool. And no, i don’t really count Master Raven because she is basically him, just with some tweaks in character. Those may not be bad in general, but extremely lazy and generic characters compared to others like Bob, Miguel, Bryan, Yoshimitsu and even Zafina. (I know, i didn’t include DLC‘s like godlike Leeroy Smith, but that’s because they are that, DLC‘s.) And again, whilst most of them aren’t bad and more so just generic and uninspiring, Chloe *is* bad and annoying. And story wise, there is a difference in characters getting a Looney Tunes ending on the side non-canon and getting the same treatment in Canon. Paul and Law dying in an explosion in Tekken 6? Non canon. Hwoarang fighting Devil Jin in Tekken 5 ending? Canon. And all the „stories“ in Tekken 7 have a hint of Canon in it. Hwoarang wears his eyepatch because of his rematch with Devil Jin. King using moves of his friends and others. And yes, out of Eddie and Chlie‘s endings, Chloe‘s is seemingly Canon. In a „6 million copies sold“ celebration poster, you can see Eddie being basically Lucky Chloe‘s servant, which means that Loony ending you spoke of turned real for Eddie. Do proper research before trying to defend trash.
I think it happens when they introduce new characters that aren't likable, look dumb and are a lil overpowered and make classic fan favorite characters look like shit
So, at the end, I find funny that you put lili in the "Okay" category because, as a tekken 7 and Lili player. I'm pretty sure Lili is even more disliked than Chloe.
I think because they have childish personality and people who hate them are vocal and a little voice from people(weeabs) who like them, and people with neutral say is intimidated by people who shout they hate them so they're like "yeah, we also hate them, whatever".
I played the SFA3MAX myself on an emulator, and I have some games with Ingrid as well. Seeing this video right now, I get the mysterious lore she has in this IP, like I *GET* it, literally. What I don't understand is that why the are some people who are hated her, like there's no explanation. And I was like, really? For those who dislike a character for no apparent logical reason, you need a therapy. Man, they need to get a grip.
"This character is bad because they beat the main villain on their arcade mode" has to be the funniest reason to hate a fg character.
Guess we should hate every character in the roster then.
"Man, I just want a character with a shit moveset and no talent. I feel so underrepresented"
~Beta cucks, probably
That guy must kept forgeting joke characters then
The most obivious, dan
Not gonna lie, I always held it against liu kang for how often he was winning tournaments in canon.
His story just didn't feel as interesting as some of the other endings.
From what I heard and saw in this video, it's not that Ingrid simply _beat_ Bison. It's that she made a complete and utter joke out of him, made Psycho Power (you know, the thing that defines Bison as a threat) out to have been something he _stole_ rather than it being given to or earned by him, and then just kinda left to make a joke out of good ol' MC Ryu too. And probably did off-screen, simply because she's Ingrid and she's awesome.
I clicked on this anticipating a discussion of wildly overpowered characters, not learning that apparently the Fighting Game Community suffers from Cute Aggression.
It really does
@@MagillanicaLouM not really lots of cute characters are well loved it's not the character trope that bothers people
It's all down to cultural differences, really. Idol culture isn't a thing in the west so characters that represent that looks weird and is generally not accepted.
Not gonna lie, I thought I was gonna see a discussion about their in game skillset abuse, and such... and I'm lowkey disappointed by the entirety of the video. Especially with the conclusion being a not-so thought provoking question.
There's no doubt that most people thag like fighting games, like them because they're not anime tropey "cutesy" "UwU" vibe games. So inviting those characters into the roster will gain natural detest. That's just obvious. Asking why is..weird..to me.
But the fact he overlooked their actual performance in the game, and how that adds to the feedback is a total letdown. I cant speak for Ingrid, or Lucky Chloe, but I can say... I've seen more stigma against Marie Rose and Honoka players rather than the characters... and only complaints of the characters by proxy.
Marie Rose is inconsistent in personality, not lacking in it. Honoka has no defined personality beyond being innocent and oblivious, ie childlike. So to see her use these OP "cool" moves and in spamming methods is off putting. It goes against her brand as childish and suddenly she's a pro powerhouse, specifically one that's annoying to fight. That creates a big disdain for the playerbase.
Marie Rose also has a generally aggravating moveset that also can be used to trigger the player-- and ruin their setups etc in an instant.. and she has one of the worst(best?) infinite loops in the game. You take that into account with a dry personality-- and inconsistent storyline and she's naturally gonna be disliked by seasoned players as well.
Not to mention the general dislike that tbe characters are "child like" and sexualized to a point that it's SLIGHTLY uncomfortable. There's just not a lot of room for them to be liked.
(Which was also overlooked in this video.)
I can see why people dislike Marie Rose, I can see people being annoyed by honoka personality wise...but sheeeeeesh. FIGHTING THEM?😂 It's a rage cesspool waiting to be built...and likely the true base of most detestment. Which is something I've heard about Chloe too.
Never heard the term Cute Aggression, but I think I'm definitely gonna remember it.
Plenty in the FGC like or are at least neutral to cute things sure, but there's definitely some sort of intense backlash like hate at this particular flavor of cute. It usually seems to be the...I guess audacity of a character like that appearing in anything outside of somewhere where its expected to stay like Blazblue or Melty Blood. I can at least understand that, not finding it fitting the tone of a game, but some of the rage seems to get really...dramatic. Before people even knew what Cloe's moveset was, I remember some people absolutely lost their shit at the character even existing. And in Ingrid's case its especially weird since like the video said, she didn't even come from a completed game to even ruin. Maybe it's a bit of a Scrappy effect? Like people thought the character was being pushed too much?
None of these characters are really my cup of tea either but I don't entirely get what warrants the level of rage I see sometimes.
If Faust can be in a fighting game, anything goes at that point for me lol.
time to give u a afro and make that ur hurtbox so i can do instant overheads rofl
Phoenix Wright is literally a fighting game character. Anything is actually possible.
He's very funny :)
Wise words , Beard Dandy
Voldo **
I think it boils down to the general stigma of cute girls doing cute things. People are more than willing to have female fighters since they often share masculine tropes for the simple fact of being fighters in the first place. Being sexy comes as a bonus. However, having cutesy fighters kinda crosses the line for the "HARDCORE" slice of the FGC since the archetype for the most part reject the typical sexy or strong tropes of a female fighter. This is why DOA fans have little to say against Ayane despite being younger than Marie or Honoka.
That is a pretty well thought out idea. I still think people are being silly. But i can kind of grasp this as a reason.
@@Lazrael32 Well, most of the complainers are mostly annoyed by them. 90%+ of the FCG don't really give a shit about cutesy characters as long as they are fun.
Dead or Alive 5 and 6 being rough at launch probably didn't help. Honoka probably would have gone unnoticed if Marie Rose wasn't so pandering alongside Last Round getting absurd amounts of costume DLC
These character tropes are too anime for these games. But i personally don't mind them at all as soon as they play good, and they all do.
Well said. And I think it's even harder for a lot of people to accept the idea of cute girls trashing the more serious characters in a match. I'm not part of the hate train: I was one of those who did play Capcom Fighting Evolution, but I wasn't interested to use Ingrid as there were better cast choices. I simply didn't know enough about her to want to use her, much less hate her.
Marie Rose is a breath of fresh air to a franchise where most of the females are associated w/ jiggle physics, and has become one of my favorites. But since DOA has a reputation of being a titillating series, her "underaged" design tends to make certain people uncomfortable. As for Honoka, I personally find her very generic as an addition to the roster since she's a top heavy schoolgirl whose moves are from the other characters of the game.
Their both 18 and some of the costumes with the physics just makes me disappointed in tecmo and team ninja
@@lycheeax They're both supposed to be 18, and the jiggle physics barely matter w/ Marie.
@@jp3813 I know it’s just cuz their both a bit young also I knew it didn’t matter as much with Marie I was mainly talking about honoka with like her “biker” costume
I got mixed up with 18 and 16 because I’ve been playing more tekken
@@ProjectTaker At this point in the franchise, Eliot's still the youngest followed by NiCO, Ayane, Marie Rose, & Honoka. All of whom are 18 years of age. However, Eliot & Ayane both debuted in the previous games at age 16.
If you ask me, I think the hatred toward these characters may be rooted in a general distaste towards "moe". Fighting game fans seem to prefer their female characters to be sexy and badass, not cute and girly. It's why characters like Chun Li and Cammy from Street Fighter, Baiken and I-no from Guilty Gear, or the Williams from Tekken are highly regarded while these girls are looked down upon. Even though these hated characters can kick just as much ass as the rest of their respective casts, the fact that they do so in a jovial and girlish way tends to put off a lot of players.
That's where the argument of "this character doesn't belong in this game" comes from, when people see these moe, playful, childish characters that look like they're not even taking the fight seriously in the same ring as characters like Kazuya and Heihachi, they can find it pretty annoying, specially in Tekken's more "grounded" fighting styles, like Nina, Ana, Xiaoyu, Christie, it doesn't matter if they're sexy or cute, when it's time to fight, they take their fighting stances and fight, that may be why they're beloved characters.
Thats also why Giovanna is liked a lot it seems (and to be fair, I think she looks cool). But yeah, people dont want to embrace the "anime" aspects because it makes them feel embarased (and to be fair, I feel the same to some extent. I dont like playing May because of that. I love playing Baiken, I-No and I'm fine with Ramlethal, but when it comes to May, it can feel "wrong", or at least you wont be taken seriously afterwards.) This is coming from somebody that watches JoJo.
@@leithaziz2716 Ineresting, because in the GG community both Baiken and I-no are seen as characters played primarily by people who "don't play guilty gear". Especially now with the outrage over I-no's boobs and the "Baiken for strive crowd" they're not really respected by most fighting game players unless you're actually good with them. May doesn't get that kind of hate in GG and people really didn't complain as much about her as other girlish characters in fighting games.
@@toasted7719 Baiken and I-no have those reputations because they're notoriously hard to play but have suuuuuuper appealing designs
@@toasted7719 Would you believe me if I told you I actually main Baiken in Rev 2? I find her to be cool. And I actually really like I-No's new look in Strive. Thinking of trying her out myself. But I am aware of the Baiken "fans" you're talking about.
The part about tekken made me realize that Miguel will probably be a joke character from now on :(
God, pls no.
I don't think there are any real "joke" characters in Tekken, aside from endings shenanigans. Law and Paul still look badass during the match, it's not like they're crying and falling over themselves like, say, Dan.
@@bennymountain1 yeah but still they should be taken serious in there story part. They've been comic reliefs for for a long time now especially paul and in tekken 7 just takes the cake. I actually enjoy the humer side of tekken, but some characters you gotta draw the line where enough is enough.
@@bennymountain1 Dr. Bosconovich is a joke character at the very least.
Not really, he still has badass endings plus his vendetta with Jin. He has yet to be in a looney bin like Eddy tho.
Tekken has an actual bear who goes into space at one point. I don't think my immersion can ever be challenged with Tekken
In one game.. Xiaoyu's ending had her use her winning money to fund a time machine, intending to go back in time and prevent Heihachi from throwing young Kazuya into the volcano, but when it appeared it hit Heihachi and directly caused him to throw Kazuya into the volcano..
Yeah and two wood men
A monket and a dog has been sent in space before.
Lol if sakura came out today, she def would get shitted on
Alot of people already don't like her because "sHe'S jUsT a rYu cLoNe"
True.
Believe me, she got shat on plenty when she was first introduced in Alpha 2.
I know because I used to be one of those haters.
Yeah. It's funny cause I myself find her to be a lil bit overrated. I don't dislike her at all, just not as in love with her as apparently every other street fighter fan is. But even I think the idea of her being crapped on if say, she appeared for the first time in sfv in her classic design is sad considering the the legacy of her we actually got.
i feel that is too much of a reality warping hypothetical to make that assessment. She is in way too much to imagine her just now appearing.
The Lucky Cloe drama made the least sense. She wasn't a child nor was she overpowered in the lore. Ignorant players just complained "She doesn't belong" in a game with boxing kangaroos and dinosaurs...
I don't understand the "child" accusations either. They use that EVERYTIME a young or young-looking character is announced. Look at how people got mad when Miyako was announced in the new Melty Blood game. They said "she doesn't fit" despite her being in multiple Melty Blood games in the past. Plus, young characters in fighting games was always a thing with characters like Sakura in Street Fighter or Platinum the Trinity in Blazblue and they said NOTHING about those characters. So why is it a problem now?
Ignorance is bliss and Common sense is not common, as long as these people get their characters in the game I don't see where this self centered attitude comes from, there should be characters for everyone not just muscle man machos.
Tldr they don't like her so she "doesn't belong".
I can imagine the hate because the character's design only fulfills the Japanese fighting game communities' pop culture. Ingrid was hated because of the game she debuted being the worst fighting game Capcom ever made, Lucky was just one of those idol cultures that was pretty strong in Japan and the dev team possibly take feedbacks from fans for idol-esque fighter and Honoka/ Marie Rose is the only ones that I don't even know was hated.
During the Lucky Chloe Troll War, Harada at one point stated that Lucky Chloe wil be removed in all non-japanese Versions and be replaced by a generic looking white bald muscle man lol
Marie and Honoka are just victims of being rising stars who raised quite quickly into being actual stars and looking "different" from the rest.
That is pretty much it... It's just like how SP mentioned that if Sakura had debuted more recently and not in the times of the arcades when no one in particular seemed to be a star besides the obvious one, and people just got use to her... she would be part of this group of "ill-fitting" characters.
@@edwardsimongray4877 I love Harada's attitude towards people throwing a hissy fit over a character.
@@troykv96 Wouldn't that mean that they are actually more beloved than hated? Every hot thing is going to have haters because people like being contrarians.
@@talhaahmed2130 That is basically what happens here, people pretty much hate this two just for being contrarians, it just happens that there are more contrarians than usual, enough to be... noticeable.
If there is one person in this website who's willing to have a genuine, polite and sane discussion about this subject, it's definitely Majikura/ABI
well. 2 people
W cm I'm
@@Lee-fw5bd That's what "they" want you to think.
@@magicno2 I've been thinking about this as well.
Their voices are nigh identical. We sure they ain't the same guy?
Same. Just about every conversation regarding Tekken and DOA has turned toxic in the comment section.
Meanwhile, BlazBlue has characters like Rachel and Platinum, as well as Jubei who's a literal CAT.
true, but I think the anime FG player base is very different and are mvery much into these kind of characters
@@Rafael-kr6zv that's why i love anime FG fanbases, we could get a literal tank(and we did) and people would get hyped regardless lmao
Also, reminder that the literal cat is one of the few characters in the lore confirmed to have screwed (Is it just him and Nine?).
Nothing to do with the vid or your comment, but the idea came to mind and I needed to curse someone else with that knowledge.
My biggest problem with Rachel is that she never gets "damaged" (her in game damage animation is off the cat), to the point there is no satisfaction. Then again, same can be said about characters like Izanami, Elizabeth and Slayer (that is until they added cinematic in Xrd, which made it far more enjoyable).
Platinum is just a walking booger though, who thankfully gets bungled up too.
Honestly, anime fighter fit better for the anime fighters, y'know.
Yea but nine the phantom tho.....
Abel character traits:
Searching for a sense of identity
A bit naive
Resents being a clone/Shadowloo body
Like animals, especially dogs
Quiet, but friendly.
Gief weirds him out.
I mean, he's not Juri, or Viper, but he's there...
But he is not wearing a small thong or shaking his ass to the camera, behaving “innocently”, and even if he did, he is an adult.
@@shadowmoon1657 he does have the wrestler suit, which can be considered very sexy. But otherwise, id say hes like a bee, doesn't attack unless threatened. Which i like.
Even if he didn't have that, it'd be better than an unironic "I look like a 12yr old but I'm actually thousands of years old" character
Liking animals is the kind of thing you'd put on an online dating profile to hide your lack of a personality, like saying you're "fun-loving" or "laid-back." Everyone likes animals. And being "friendly" just means that you're not rude. Okay... what did you want, a cookie?
You've just described Cammy with less features
Ingrid seems like the kind of character people label "Mary Sue" and then just turn their brains off and hate, honestly. I can't speak to how true that is, though.
I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with all these characters being feminine in a very particular "cutesy" way rather than any sort of "female warrior archetype" type of femininity, if the distinction I'm trying to make there makes sense. From the looks of it, Marie Rose and Lucky Chloe seem like the sorts of characters who don't really show much combat inclination or experience in their affectations right up until they are literally in the process of doing a combat to somebody. They don't outwardly "seem like fighters", I suppose. So, they have miens that are typically actually DISassociated with combat proficiency despite in reality being, well, skilled fighters. I think that sort of thing can create a really fun contrast, personally, but I guess a lot of people are really put off by it.
I only know Ingrid from Project X Zone 2. I love her, she is very snarky but her heart is in the right place. She has trouble opening to other characters but creates the chance for very good interactions when she does.
I don't know if that's the case for Lucky Chloe at least - people love Lili, for example, and she doesn't give off a very MMA aura.
Chloe just feels overly fanservicey - an idol who wears some kind of lingerie and cat paws... her design is just a bit much.
So basically misogyny
i was gonna say that i thought some of the hate (specifically from male fans) for these characters is because they dont seem to be overtly sexualized in the same way that many female characters in fighting games are. while yes they are sexualized (after all, Lucky Chloe does seem to wear lingerie), at least with Marie Rose and Ingrid, they fall more in line with the lolita fashion style, a style that was originally popularized among women in Japan specifically BECAUSE men didn't find it attractive, despite the (prevelently western) opinions on the fashion and infantilization of women today. theyre meant to be cute, not overly sexy
I think I can connect those two points, a consistent issue people have with characters called Mary Sue's is being unreasonably skilled at too many things.
I've never been a big fan of the idol trope, in general and in fighting games, cause I find it weird to overhype/fetishize an industry I *only* ever hear shitty things about, but in fighting games I have another issue. I just struggle to believe you're as equally skilled in both idol performances and fighting, specifically because those are quite unrelated skills. One character that doesn't bother me this way is Bridget, who uses yoyo's both for combat and for performance art, meaning they're effectively the same skill applied differently. Otherwise, I struggle to believe you exist in this world, even within fantasy, because people who are skilled in multiple areas prioritize and develop expertize in one thing above the others.
Are people still fucking mad at Ingrid after all these years? I'm like, one of 10 people that even *played* that game.
I am one of them, and I wish we had the Code Holders game!
XD
I hated Marie and Honoka appearances, but that faded away once I saw them fighting and seeing that they were not just there to be two most popular anime tropes, but were design with actual care and style that's just as entertaining to watch as any other DOA character.
As a Honoka main, I agree with your statement. Also, both Honoka and Marie are pretty much popular in Japan, so I don’t think they’re going anywhere anytime soon come the next game, even if the western audience were to demand they be removed from the roster.
Are not most of the girls in DOA also anime tropes? Marie is the only non-bouncy female character.
As for Lucky Chloe....we got Alisa, two bears, Aztec Pillar Man Shrek, a doctor whose fighting style is a pure WTF-fest, a wooden puppet....and Yoshimitsu. So the complaints about Tekken not being realistical or serious is no longer compatible or relevant.
And thats been for a looooong while.
Meanwhile, two kangaroos and a dinosaur have a boxing match, a metal puppet is fighting a robot Sargent, a giant bioweapon is fighting a dude whose not only was stuck by lightning, lived, and can harness it to boost his reflexes, but was also experimented on to be better at everything, and a alien Mayan God turns into a chimera to fight a high school student who turns into a Devil when his grandfather SHOOTS HIM IN THE HEAD AFTERWARDS!
I just don't like lucky cloe because her fighting style is hard to guard against for me. It's a personal problem and I don't hate the character herself
@@-Extra_Lives Understandable. Have a good day.
Fact: The "Idol" archetype was the real problem.
It was and never will be a popular thing outside of Japan and to most people, ESPECIALLY outsiders, it's cringe as hell.
I myself am a man stricken with "yellow fever", love Japan as its own entity and without that aura of weebs who think they know Japan because they watch anime, and actually want to move into its countryside one day... And I fucking hate idols.
That said, there's another factor here too: Idol archetypes get associated with general "anime girl" archetypes. What do I mean by this? Athena from KOF. People fucking HATE characters like this and Chloe is evocative of them. And it's not like being an Eddie Gordo clone was doing her any favors because, surprise surprise, people don't like fighting Eddie players either.
@@Impalingthorn the idol archetype isn't a problem. Its only a problem to you. I didn't complain about her having a fucking dress because that doesn't matter. In a video game where a bear and a peice of wood can fight against a demon, that isn't a valid point
As a Lucky Chloe main, i can understand the pain when fighting her, as I struggle myself despite knowing how she works.
But i use her myself simply on a design basis. She appeals to me aesthetically and usually thats all I need to pick someone up. Its why i also main Xiaoyu, because i can make her look like my OC.
Seeing people hate on her as a chatacter hurts my soul but it just makes me wanna get better with her.
Knowing Harada likes her makes me happy though, so shes safe for now.
Edit: lol the Tommy Wiseu got me
Outside of having Eddy getting shit on by her in both endings, I would say she's annoying to play as, and annoying to learn.
Otherwise, having a character look like an idol is interesting.
I think you hit the nail on the head with Lucky Chloe and Marie/Honoka, though I'm surprised you didn't mention how much Capcom Fighting Jam was disliked by the FGC at the time, and how it's pretty much the poster child of the dark age of Capcom's fighting games in the early/mid 2000's. I feel as though the hatred towards Ingrid is at least somewhat linked to that, what with her debuting in that game.
That's actually my central reason for not liking Ingrid. I remember buying Fighting Jam with so much excitement because it was finally a new 2D Capcom fighting game... and it played, looked, and felt awful and lazy. And then Capcom went dark for almost 10 years in the FG department. Ingrid was basically the mascot of the game with her being the only new face, so whenever I see her, all I remember is that disappointment. It's totally unfair and illogical, but it's where my brain goes with the character and why I cringe every time.
It definitely FEELS like people perceive she's a representative of one of the worst 2D Fighting game Capcom has ever produced, and as a result her inclusion in Alpha 3 MAX might've felt like an attempt to push this "rando OC" into the world of Street Fighter.
Which is interesting because that means people gave her much more importance than she really had in the grand scheme of things. Like if she were to become a Mascot Character (Her lore could easily help with that belief as well as being the only character with non-imported sprites in Fighting Jam) that Capcom would push everywhere and include on everything when in reality... No, it was just a neat character concept they could use and got to finish.
I call this the silver the hedgehog syndrome
not the original plan originally to be Capcom All-Stars
There happens to be a TV Personality in the Philippines named "Booba" and the reception was also either "haha booba" or "ew booba."
bruh lmao.
Booba
I'll say one good think about SFxT, it actually gave Able a real personality. Him being a cloudcucklander who loves animals and space aliens made me actually like him. Able now reminds me of Drax from the GotG films and that's awesome.
Now we need him finding aliens in SF6!
XD
Abel*
I play Chloe and knowing that just by picking this character I auto tilt my opponents gives me immense joy.
At least you're honest about it. Be True to yourself, King.
Personally, I still find fighting her frustrating, though. Keeps crushing all my grabs and evading my frame traps just by attacking.
Chloe is hilarious to me. She is a game streamer with cat ear headphones and a frilly skirt. Beating people with her feels rediculous and funny.
i hate her nc launch and damage hahahaha.
always catches me off guard.
I would be totaly fine with her. IF I COULD MUTE HER VOICE.
@@casmoloves5570 there's a mod for that
In the case of Marie and Honoka, both debuted in DOA5 as DLC characters, thus never had a chance to get any character development til 6, and even then they're somewhat "main" characters of the story til - once again - the ninjas take center stage.
I’m almost surprised Ash Crimson didn’t pop up in the discussions. Almost...
You mean feminine Guile
Was he hated gameplay or lore wise?
@@WanArk86 lore.
@@WanArk86
Ash players are a myth, so lore, yeah.
Partially because he stole Iori's powers and K's protagonist spot, partially (mostly) because they got baited by the cute white-haired girl in the cover actually being a cute white-haired boy and them being too weak to smash regardless.
@@terreausore2435 hahaha that made my day. Thank you for that
As someone who only knows Ingrid from Project X Zone 2, I love her. She is snarky and funny and has trouble opening to others but her heart is in the right place. She has very genuine interactions with the rest of the cast (to be fair everyone does, it's a game written by Monolith Soft, human interactions is their jam). She does end up opening to other characters and creates very honest interactions.
This video reminded me to not give a flying fuck about people hating me for playing Lucky Chloe. Like seriously, she’s such a fun, dynamic character.
I with you on that
I don't really hate Chloe, I just think she's similar to Eddie in being very gimmicky and unsafe on Shields. I really don't know much or care about tekken Lore and she doesn't give me trouble online or anything, she's just kind of obnoxious for new characters. Definitely something you'd see online and not in high level competitive play.
@@coolkidsclub9943 That’s valid. I, on the other hand, am a pure Tekken casual, and I love playing her. All her sweeps and flips are just so fluid.
@@coolkidsclub9943 I don't see how people can compare Chloe to Eddy. They have nothing in common except... they both dance?
She isn't even a gimmicky character since she doesn't really have long strings or confusing movements like Eddy.
I feel like people hate her design so much that they don't even bother to learn what she can do. With that kind of attitude even Kazuya could be considered a gimmicky character
@@DXYS95 When you sit down and play her she feels like boring Eddie gameplay and yes her to the rhythm style strings are fucking gimmicky as fuck my dude something Eddie also does but isn't annoying about it or as blatantly obvious
0:34 Look mom,im in the video : D
Congratulations
Great! Congratulations.
Now please explain us, why do you hate Honoka?
@@zenotaddei he hate it because B O O B A
No
pls can you tell form what game are your profile picture character?, i liked his desing...
I played alpha 3 max. I was much worse at fighting games at the time and had no clue who she was. I thought she was alright.
one thing I love is that I've pretty much never heard someone say a character has 'no personality' and it turned out to be true. Usually the character's personality is boring, stoic, or one that's been seen a dozen times before but that is still a personality.
My Feedbacks on these characters (yeah I'm late):
- Ingrid is a desperate attempt of Capcom to create their Athena from Psycho Soldiers/King of Fighters and she doesn't even try to look different
- I honestly hope That Lucky will become more deep because she is cute and """"""fighting characters who use rhythm as major component""""""" is a rarity
- I have no clue why people hate Marie Rose, maybe because she looks like a Loli?
- The pink haired bimbo is just an excuse to introduce a 'mokujin' character in DoA. Mokujin fucking sucks.
*Slight addendum
Not even Mokujin. _OGRE._
Her whole schtick is that she steals moves from other fighters. She's literally just Waifu Ogre lol
@@13Kr4zYAzN13 Yup she's 100% just Ogre, they took what works well. Made her boringly cute the shit the JP side eats like it's crack yet the US side is weird about since the shit is do off hours would claim other wise. They love their cute shit too.
Honoka was never needed Raidou came first. Honoka also has 1-2 frames of animation where she’s in the copied characters stance, Raidou doesn’t.
I think Ingrid looks neat, I really like the sparkle effects on her attacks
None of the reasons you gave explain the sheer disgust people from the communities show at the mere sight of these characters, imo.
Also, yeah, Ingrid WAS kinda like a Capcom Athena, since Capcom All Stars was being developed by Ex-SNK devs and they introduced the code breakers trio as references to KoF.
I can't even say they're hated. A lot of people like these characters, it's more accurate to say they're controversial I guess? And that's just because there are morale busy bodies who don't live and let live.
Pretty much, aye. And it's not even a mystery on why they're controversial themselves, just look at their renders and you can tell exactly what people might find annoying.
Hell, I honestly dislike Lucky Chloe a fair bit but I do admit the outrage was rather ridiculous - like most character outrages out there.
Except for D'vorah's. That was earned hatred.
If namco added bruce, ak or marduk before release, i wouldnt have give a shit about chloe. However paying for my fav charachters while this piece of shit coming with the game, pissed me off.
@@Mateus_Carvalho Eh, didn't mind her killing Mileena.
@@RippahRooJizah She did more than just killing Mileena though. Cucked Jade, betrayed Kotal, sucked up to Quan Chi and Shinnok...
@@Mateus_Carvalho I mean, her killing Mileena was something that irked people, not so much the rest that I know of.
Honoka gots two nice personnalities.
I was introduced yo Ingrid through Project X Zone 2 and thought she was neat. Had no idea until later that apparebtly people hated her and I didn't understand why.
Tbh I like Ingrid's design but I hate the whole Mary Sue Alien goddess owner of Psycho power stuff, wish she got added again with a new background story. The whole "Her design doesn't fit SF" And "Too anime" Are absurd arguments as SF has been anime since the alpha days.
Thats noncanon tho.
Thank you for this video. I personally like these types of characters (Ingrid specifically), and I do not quite understand the hatred for them. It's nice to see the echo chamber break and someone bigger actually question why people think the way they do.
I'm not a fighting game expert/pro, but I do love all these character that been mentioned. There character' are interesting and not just another bland cookie cutter. I love that Ingrid's inconsistent backstory and fights like Athena of King of Fighters.
It's awesome that Lucky Chloe is a foreigner who love sJapan pop culture, who acts like a cute idol on camera, but a total delinquent in real life.
Marie Rose fakes her cuteness most of the time,, but a good egg when her friends and mistress Helena are concerned.
While Honoka's timid nature lies her monstrous power (originated from his father)
Bruh, you're fucking weird. These joke Lolita bait characters do not belong in serious fighting games. They need to go back to Touhou
I am glad that Lucky Chloe character exists even if their personality is very annoying to me, the gameplay is very well tuned to make the opponent annoyed, it is like a weaponized annoyance. Though I kinda chose to have a headcannon that she actually has a much more Kazyua like personality and that the personality she presents is just the "cute" persona, while beneath that mask is a cruel and calculated sociopath. And what would make me like here more in the next instalment is that her persona gets to kind of slip off from time to time in gameplay. This would give the character the actual depth.
If you do her finale She really is a Dick and a bully, that girl straight kicked Eddy in the nuts for missing a step😂
Ok, long one: TLDR: _Isn't Chloe supposed to be annoying, and why aren't we talking about playstyles?_
So, I don't actually play any of the listed games, but I HAVE heard of Honoka and especially Lucky Chloe.
My confusion is that I thought Chloe was _supposed_ to be hard to like, and I kinda like her for that. She's two-faced, presenting a sickeningly cutsey facade while her real personality is a jerkish b- _young lady_ that will kick people in the 'nads for not meeting her unreasonable standards. Her playstyle is an aggressive poke-centric one that punishes any gaps in your defense with frustratingly huge damage.
A LOT of people hate the buriko-idol archetype, she checks that box. EVERYONE hates the self-centered Karen archetype, she checks that box. Her playstyle is obnoxious one to go against. I honestly thought she was a successful design, like F.A.N.G. in SFV, she was supposed to be obnoxious.
On that note, I don't think I've sen that come up at all in this video at least: the characters movesets and playstyles. Design, animations and personality are one thing, but how do Honoka and Ingrid _feel_ to play and play against? Is that a contributing factor? My only regular fighting game is Smash Bros, and zoners and characters with counters in those games are very annoying and have contributed to some of the most contentious characters on the roster... do these characters have something in their movesets that contributes to them being poor matchups for the rest of the roster, or just feel bad to play against?
"Capoeira would not work in a fight"... tell that to all the MMA K.O. compilations featuring Capoeira.
Deadass
A few move of capoeira work, but Capoeira at a whole don't
@@LThanhHao232 as every single martial art.
@@LThanhHao232 the thing is, most capoerists train only for the game and not interested in training for a street fight or a competition. But kicks can break your jaw and throws will bring you to the ground. If that doesn't count as "work", than what ever is?
I remember friends disliking Ingrid because she felt like a KoF ripoff. And in that sense I kind of agree, she kind of feels like a low effort mash up of Athena Asamiya and Kula Diamond.
Personally, I hate that we never got a decent release of alpha 3 Max. To this day I have no idea if she's actually any good.
That's weird since Sakura could be considered a KOF rip off too (Yuri came first).
To be fair, considering what I've from Thorgi's Arcade video on that game, your friend might have been right ? The director of that game hailed from SNK and had worked on KoF, and apparently there was another Code Holder in her original game who was pretty much a copy & paste of K' from KoF.
I still remember Seeing Capcom Fighting Evolution in stores when it first released and I didnt know what to expect so I was kind of excited and bought it. From that time I played the game I only remember since Ingrid was the newest sprite in the game I ended up using her and only remember the sparkles, not much else. Loved how everyone made fun of her in Project X Zone 2 and a few characters pointed out shes just a plot device lol.
Analyzing these characters and their design patterns leave me with a conclusion that a portion of the FGC hate their designs because it resembles cute E-girls.
And you know how the FGC is with girls.
Fighting game community are just salty cause they cant get girlfreinds
Women who aren’t sex objects or villains (or sexy villains) aren’t exactly adored by FG players
This is a year old but where do you think egirls got their asthetics from?
About the "capoeira would not work on a real fight" bit: Capoeira was invented by slaves as a way to train martial arts by disguising it as a dance. And as someone that practiced it a bit when I was younger I can say that the time I accidentaly made contact with someone from my own age, the foot I hit their face in a spin hurt af for an entire week, while the boy didn't came back to school for some days. Capoeira can absolutely wreck you up if you remove the dancing bits and actually make contact.
Its not the martial art I think he is referring to, but more so how its potrayed in Tekken. You aren't going to beat someone with Capoeira the same way you do in Tekken since I don't think anyone could just juggle someone for days in a fight.
Capoeira gets credit in actually being able to hit someone. Some of these fake martial arts are beyond obviously unrealistic even when watching it in a video game.
But nobody in a fight is gonna walk up to you while you start dancing around on the ground. You’ll be lucky if they don’t do a normal front kick, jump on top of you, or any other sort of moves rendering capoeira completely useless on its own.
@@bonfist7277You have no idea what you're talking about. Obviously you would not use the dancing parts on a real fight, that would be really F-ing dumb. Capoeira is not only effective, it is battle proven because it was used by fugitive slaves to fight armed soldiers and actually win. The herradic moves throw the opponent off and then you hit then in an angle they were not expecting, that's the main fighting point of Capoeira.
the whole "having little girls dance around is okay because other stuff in the game is unrealistic" was by far his worse argument in the video. This man doesn't understand why a 6 foot tall, musclebound sumo is more reasonable to be in a fight then a little girl with no muscles doing silly dances. Also he's just factually wrong. Sumo is literally considered a form of martial arts. I don't know how someone could say this when being s Sumo means you're huge guy who's incredibly strong and knows how to grapple.
Saying Sumo isn't realistic in a street fight is like saying Olympic wrestling isn't real because they cant do dive kicks
@@joedatius I'm just gonna say that the first every UFC fight involved a sumo wrestler going down in 20 seconds to a savate practitioner (I don't know the technical term)
This is the first time i've seen Marie and Honoka gameplay and they look kinda fun, outside of having a few "girly" stances they know how to throw a punch and do throws.
Honestly i'm glad for silly characters in fighting games, cute girls included, it makes games more varied and it's not like there isn't a single major fighting game franchise with dumb stuff, after all most were inspired by classic martial arts movies and you know how silly yet enjoyable those are.
I don't really have any feelings for or against any of these characters, but you pointing out the details in animation for Honoka and Marie Rose made me appreciate the work put into them.
That all goes to shit when you realize Marie Rose is outdone by any other evasive character or Leifang completely.
Also watch Honoka’s animations more closely there’s 1-2 frames of animation that she’s stuck in the original characters stance. Raidou doesn’t have that at all so appreciate that. Also, any character can H cancel any stance in DOA, so Honoka’s transitions to other stances from one another isn’t new nor is it looking smooth because any character can H cancel their stance to be in neutral again.
With both Marie Rose and Honoka I genuinely don’t understand why people say they don’t belong
If Maximilian Dood and Kenny taught me anything, I just hate Lucky Chloe for screwing over Eddy's ending
They taught you to hate Lucky Chloe?
Don't hate the character. Hate the people that "write" LC to shit on a classic character for the first game that She's in.
That is a bad publicity stunt, no matter how You look at it.
Thought it was Melee Fox in the thumbnail and that this video was going to be discussing games and their respective "broken" characters
There is a simple answer. You're not selling the hits the dish out. Unless you have some form of Ki energy, Sakura or Rose from SF, watching a 110lb girl punch a 200lb buff dude, bear, robot doesn't look damaging at all.
I think with the recent craze about Smash Bros, you can certainly add Pyra/Mythra to the mix.
My take on why people think these characters don't "belong" is because they're really insecure.
For god knows how long the FGC and the ESport aspect of these games are always trying to portray themselves as "SEWIUS AND PWOFESIWONAW sports in electronic format" kinda like StarCraft, LoL, Overwatch and CS GO already did, and such, these "Kawaii UwU" characters may detract from the seriousness that they all so want funny specially because some of the previous mentioned also have ridiculous UwU characters(Zoe and D.va).
But let's be honest, fighting games are not like traditional sports, their most close parallel is Wrestling. Characters, players, roles, how to entice the audience.
Wrestling and FGC embodies the serious, the grudges, the audience and specially the ridiculous/zany and should be looked like that.
@AT Productions perish the thought Nintendo adds Nintendo characters from a popular Nintendo game to their originally Nintendo All Stars game
Fighting gamers are more insecure about these loli characters because the community gained some reputation of being degenerates (Just look at smash bros players twitter) and many dont want to be associated with these characters that are going to reinforce these stereotypes. You'll never see the same reaction in, say, the Anime FGC community, where these archetypes are bread and butter pretty much by design.
@@chibinya lol that's not the fault of the characters
I believe most of the reason for P/M's negative reception was, on top of already having a wealth of generic sword wielders, they got two more in one, only to find out that they're some of the most braindead spammable characters. I'll bet money that even Sephiroth would have gotten just as bad a feedback if he could safely mash his side smash or neutral special.
It ended up becoming a case of "this character doesnt really serve much of a purpose AND they embody playstyles I dont like? bad character".
I really like Ingrid's design, animations and personality, I would enjoy seeing her in SF5.
thankfully?
@Will Diesel ingrid's pretty so i hope she does get in:)
@Will Diesel i wish she is a DLC for SF5. Ingrid in Project X Zone is cheerful, fun and hilarious. I would enjoy if Capcom develop a little bit of her actual lore or personality and make her interact with more SF characters.
But i dont really care because she's not a SF character. She's a Capcom character.
@Will Diesel so you saying Ingrid isnt interesting based on only Alpha 3 Max?
@Will Diesel Remy, Twelve, Rufus and Necalli's personality is a bit eh for me, especially Necalli and Rufus. Rufus is just dumb and boastful. Necalli had some potential but constantly got trashed in the story. Ingrid, on the other hand, is pretty funny and cheerful in Project X Zone. Capcom also have a lot of room to develop her actual story and relate that to her fun personality. She's definitely a character that people would like if Capcom maintain her current personality and develop a good backstory for her.
Marie Rose & Honoka is one of my fav character tu use in DOA. Especially Marie😁😁
Weeb.
"Capoeira won't work in a fight"
Okay... The dance wouldn't but the actual fight would work pretty well
I actually love Chloe, I'm a huge fan when someone use dancing as a fight style.
I haven't heard of Ingrid before this video but... honestly I can see why there's that reception.
Design wise she doesn't look anything like what her backstory implies... Goddess time traveler, but literally just random girl in a school uniform.
That's why the character is so out of place in Street Fighter.
@@philithegamer8265
Yet A Sakura A School Girl,(Til 5) Green Wild Electric Beast Man, A Fortune Teller, Abraham Lincoln, A Ninja Rocking Nikes, A Fat Annoying Marital Artist who won't shut up, A Luchadores who sucks at cooking, and a DBZ Demon is fine for Street Fighter? Man cut the the Bullshit.
@@SuperFusionAJ93 Neither of characters that you mentioned are an OP Mary sue.
If you talking about Guile, then he’s need to be kicked out of Street Fighter and never be used again.
"science mutants, genetic godmen and Zak". Did you just forget a freaking panda, a kangaroo and a miniature dinosaur ?
You forgot robots,cyborgs and living wooden dummies lol
@@exuvittorio4855 and giant mecha, and lawyers for some reason
@@amaizeing.dumbass5123 yep Chloe is the only totally unrealistic XD
And tengu, don’t forget that DOA had actual tengu in it.
After "genetic god men", I expected/hoped for him to finish with "a bear" or "a panda".
Lolli girl characters that look like they’re 13 but the lore says they’re extremely powerful will never really be popular among fighting game fans
I think it's a sense of them being small cutesy girls that causes them to think as they are weak and need to be protected, that they shouldn't be able to hold their own against these "monsters"
Also, the sexualization of small girls DOA has is WEIRD
@@unciervoenciervado part of me wants to play these types of characters just because I know that they make other players uncomfortable
10:08 That was probably Capcoms intention with Able not having a personality, since his look and stoic demeanor is based on Fedor Emelianenko
Actuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuually
There is a big reason for Abel "not having a personality"
He's one of Bison's "dolls" and suffers from amnesia
So yeah not the best character to choose for that.
Dude, Marie Rose and Honoka are hated because Koei Tecmo keep shove them down our throats, even putting them where they don't belong, like a Dynasty Warriors-like game. I get it that you said that we wouldn't play these fully fanservice games where they appeared in, but did you even take a look at the current state of Dead Or Alive and the way Koei Tecmo has been treating it? They have completely ignored a big portion of the fanbase and just use Marie Rose and Honoka as their "tickets" for easy and cheap money for the current japanese "fanbase" which is just a bunch of otakus who probably didn't even grow up with the series. Why else is the current focus of DOA just on the japanese-exclusive game like Xtreme Venus where they barely even have the OG ladies and it's mostly dominated by a buch of short little girls who even have the same face and body proportions of Marie and Honoka? Because Koei Tecmo has decided to completely neglect the fighting scene altogether of Dead Or Alive and now just using the Xtreme series for easy money. It's clear that they don't have any faith in the franchise and now they only rely on the Japanese otakus. It's not that hard to understand why Marie Rose and Honoka would get so much hate. They are the reason why DOA is doomed as a franchise and it will only take a miracle for it to come back properly.
I'm not a Dead or Alive fan, but that DOES seems to make sense to me. 🤷
Someone gets it, I see. Not to mention that both of them have the appeal of a cancerous tumor, both visually and sound-wise. Seriously, screw their nails-on-the-chalkboard voices.
its really funny how people got mad about Lucky Chloe being an idol, and then the Tekken guys made that fighting game mode on one of Idolm@aster's gacha games
hold up theres really a idolm@aster fighting game? i thought that was just a joke
Really?
Um...
Julia is now a STREAMER!
O_o
@@esperanzatyrant142 It is a joke. All the characters play like Lily I believe.
@@PIKMINROCK1 They all had Lili's idle animation but they seemed to have a few different moves from different characters lol
Narrator: "Capoeira would not work in a fight, but it works in a fighting game."
1800s capoeiristas: "Am I a joke to you? Do you not know our history?"
Marcus "Lelo" Aurelio: "Hold my beer!"
jiu-jitsu: *obliterates capoeira*
@@NuwandaLunaDragon
Haha! But seriously tho...
Fun fact: Before it was watered down thanx 2 government bullshit in da late 19th century to perhaps earliest of 20th century (it was outlawed), capoeira actually had its own grappling techs in its system and they were comparable 2 what modern BJJ is. Trust me! There r those ppl who r rediscovering what was lost during capoeira's "waterdown," and there's at least one of 'em on UA-cam dat I've occasionally seen!
@@Gauntlets I'm probably going Brasil someday, so, if these rediscovered techniques exist I would be happy to learn
Ok I never understood that they were hated for other things then just "cheapness", at least for Lucky Chloe. In the sense that they are easy and powerful
Lot's of characters are hated for being cheap, but that doesn't mean people hate their design and how they fit into the world of their respective game. There is different kinds of "hate" I guess. I hated fighting Bruce in T6 with his b+2 insta counter stun like Steve's b+1, but I would never say they don't fit the world of Tekken because they are badass and definitely great for the roster. Kick Josie out and bring back Bruce.
@@lonewander6772 Hmm, maybe that distinction is hard for people to make. Much like me they hear "I hate ..." and assume it is for gameplay reasons.
However, I do not agree that the characters do not fit, they do. They might just not suit your style and that is ok ; )
@@Tibazz
They don't fit. You might be new to Tekken if you think they do. And no the bears do not count. Just look at the trajectory of Tekken and how they embraced the wacky parts too much in the later installments. There's a reason why legacy characters are generally more popular than the newcomers starting from T6 onwards.
Also hating a fighting game character isn't all about gameplay. Fighting games still have an established world and lore that made people love it. An aesthetic that brought them to it. And a change in that to cater the new gen isn't going to always sit well. You can tell with what type of characters they made for Tekken as it went on. Chloe is just one. Kat, Claudio, Bob, Alisa, Josie, etc. They stray farther and farther from Tekken's initial feel which was inspired by VF. I get it, new times, new audiences. I'm an oldschool Tekken fan. Obviously I'm not going to like the new anime-ish direction.
@@Tibazz I DEFINITELY agree that characters like Lucky Chloe fit in the game because like I told “Lone Wander”, Tekken is a Japanese game developed and published by a Japanese company located in Tokyo, Japan, a country known and perceived as weird. So it makes sense that a lot of people are gonna defend Lucky Chloe’s addition to the roster, considering that we didn’t mind the numerous of ridiculous characters of the game. Yes, everybody else is free to dislike Lucky Chloe, but the characters that we have a personal dislike for are the sole reason why we need to remind ourselves that “CHARACTER SELECTION” exist across the screen for a reason.
@@stratusfactionlove And somehow these narrow minded Chloe haters can't grasp this point. ☝️
"Capoeira would not work in a fight-"
Actually it is considered flat out one of the most dangerous and effective fighting styles on the planet. In fact it was created by slaves who then went on to use it to launch a fully successful slave rebellion.
And then got pulverized into the ground by brazilian jujitsu of the gracies.
Still effective but not compared to its antithesis, Bjj
@@kingsouther Eh it wasn't designed with grappling in mind, so any style that focuses on such and can ground them has a distinct advantage. No style is perfect, but that doesn't negate the fact that capoeira is still highly dangerous.
Honestly, I find it genuinely hilarious and sad that it’s mainly us western gamers that are hellbent on gatekeeping Japanese games just because we find something we don’t like about it.
Yep, and also sad players are acting like the games should only cater to them and no other audience, the assertiveness from western gamers are quite disgusting.
maybe if so many Japanese games and media stopped sexualizing underage girls for once that wouldn't happen. But hey lets ignore the rampant open pedophilia within the entire Anime industry alone.
@@joedatius Oh, so you’re one of THOSE…
@joedatius
Glass house, you tourist, glass house.
5:45 i got whiplashed by that music... because of a certain animation.
I’m nervous to ask but… what was the animation?
I don't know a whole lot about these franchises, but I'm a firm believer in letting people have fun, and if people have fun playing these characters and the developers had fun making them, then I really don't see a problem with them
I guess Lucky Chloe is hated because of the stereotype of "gamer girl" that was starting by the time Tekken 7 was announced, but I didn't even know about the genuine hate the community had for all the other girls.
Ｉｔ ｒｅａｌｌｙ ｍａｋｅｓ ｙｏｕ ｔｈｉｎｋ
Lucky Chloe is just bad timing that Harada should have seen coming but was too stupid to see it.
@@Violent_Wolfen pretty sure harada just wanted a rhythm based character and doesn't really pay attention to the outside world much when making his games
remember they start making these games years in advance, it's not like they can just scrap hundreds of man hours because people had a gamer girl problem on another continent halfway across the world
@@abirneji You missed the point. The point is some legacy characters like Eddie should have already been put in before adding new ones like Lucky Chloe. That would have taken most of the sting off.
Then again, this is a guy that charged people $30 for frame data .
Which is absurd if you think about it. D.Va in overwatch rocks the exact same trope but seems to be loved.
The difference is probably that she has the mech to back it up.
No, its because she looks so stupid and annoying and she makes lose it. Way too far.
With regards to all those characters, the saltiness seems to come the most from dudebro's who like to pretend that these fighting games are "serious". The shitstorm over Lucky Chloe was hysterical. Marie Rose is fine because, like you pointed out, her personality is in-grained with everything about her character. On the otherhand, I do feel that Honoka's disposition is a bit more irritating because the character (among others), seems like she was added due to the popularity of "lolicon"/moeblob characters. With regards to DOA's traditional story prior to Honoka's inclusion, it felt like pretty much every other character fit in some way. In DOA6, Honoka's inclusion felt very "forced" in the story affecting a lot of its direction for the worse.
@AT Productions And she's legal too 😆
Sorry but I find this video a little disingeious and weirdly deflective. It's kind of simple and justified why people hate the characters, at least for the first two characters. You don't need to sidestep around why they hated them, because it's pretty obvious.
1. Ingrid just doesn't fit street fighter, even as a non-canon character. Period. She's not a martial artist. She's not based on a realistic concept, she just has magic goddess powers and that's it. People get mad at those who want her to be introduced to canon are justified because it flips too many things on it's head. She's some overpowered schoolgirl that belongs in a magical girl anime more than anything. For god's sake, she flies off into space on a buddha statue while in the cosmos. Street Fighter has had fantastical and weird things happen in it, but never to the point where a literal goddess comes in and does shit like that. Like, how the fuck am I supposed to be badass motherfucking Bison is actually much weaker than some random cutesy schoolgirl because SHE invented pyscho power? It's nuts.
2. Lucky Chloe's hate was fully justified, especially at the time when people speculated she'd replace Eddy. She's an annoyingly goofy character who seems way more like cheap weaboo bait rather than attempting to fit in with the rest of the tekken veterans. She just didn't feel like she was in the right place, and not counting the guest characters, she still doesn't exactly fit all these years later. She's not even a funny joke character, unlike Kuma and Mokujin.
As for Honkers and Marie, I never really understood their hate because they actually fit into DOA well. Their just a little more on the "anime" side of things than the other girls, because to be honest, a pink-haired girl who's really shy yet drop-dead sexy and also a kick-ass martial artist (without any trainning) seems more like an anime trope than anything else. The only striking difference is that Marie has a flat chest as opposed to the DOA females who are known for having big boobas.
1. I'm not sure what you mean when you say Ingrid is "not based on a realistic concept", but there are several non-martial artists in SF that have very unrealistic aspects about them (Bison, Blanka, Abigail). Overpowered schoolgirl? That's not any weirder than an overpowered self-proclaimed god who's half blue and half red. Flying into space on a Buddha? Is that really any more goofy than Zangief destroying the Psycho Drive by repeatedly slamming Honda onto it? Her being stronger than Bison? You seem to have forgotten than Dan is also stronger than Bison. TOTALLY CANON.
2. The fear of replacing a beloved classic like Eddy does warrant some backlash, sure. But from what I can tell, none of it has gone away even with Eddy's return. Also, I remember hearing that Josie might be a sort-of replacement for Bruce (because she was the closest thing to his fighting style? Idk) It may not be true, but if it is, where's all the Josie hate? Does no one really care about Bruce? And calling her "annoyingly goofy" is purely subjective. Zack, Dan & Johnny Cage are all loved for their goofiness, why is Chloe different? "Cheap weeaboo bait" just seems to mean "cutesy", so moving on. "Fit in with the rest of the Tekken veterans"? You mean you want to see more of the same thing? More Mishimas? Or bears? Or other animals? What's wrong with trying something new? It seems like anything goes in Tekken, so a fighting pop idol fits in with all the martial artists, robots and mutants.
Bonus question: Do you happen to play DOA or know its lore? There's a reason Hono-cow is a kick-ass fighter "without any training".
@@Kanti852 1. I don't think you get what I mean. If you look at a lot of SF characters, they all look like they have some sort of "fight" in them. Take Sakura and Karin, although they are cute young schoolgirls, they both have a genuine fighting spirit AND they both practice a real martial art. Ingrid doesn't have either. She doesn't have a style. She's way too cutesy in her movements, and her sparkly magic powers are her only means of doing real damage. She wasn't introduced early on, so it's hard to believe her existence with the stuff we know about SF. And it's also about feeling the realistic belivablity of a character. A 7 foot tall muscular man with long flowing hair and is colored half-red, half-blue? Yes, it's completely believable that he's a really strong fighter with god-like characteristics. Ingrid does not give off that impression. I look at her, and instead of buying into her concept she's a goddess who may or may not come from an alien planet, I simply think "oh this is just anime schlock. somebody just wanted a cute schoolgirl they could ogle or probably masturbate over". Also it's not the canon endings that bother people. No one really cares that Ingrid defeats bison in her own ending. It's the fact that they once stated that Ingrid CREATED psycho power, therefore canonically making her much stronger than Bison who's body is dying because of controlling psycho power.
2. Lucky Chloe sucks. And so does Josie Rizal. Johnny Cage, Dan, and Zack DO NOT feel like they were written just to pander to people who like pop idols or whatever Lucky Chloe is supposed to be. Joke characters like Johnny Cage are COMPETENT MARTIAL ARTISTS who just happen to be silly or comic relief. Lucky Chloe and Josie were not included because they were funny joke characters, they were included because they were cute girls. Either Harada included them because he thought they would sell more copies to people who are obsessed with having cute girls in their video games, or he just had a boner for them. That's what I honestly think why these characters exist, and a lot of others as well.
And no, I don't play DOA enough to know its lore. I just like the boobies. I personally still think that Marie Rose and Honoka look a little to inexperinced to have such skill, but it's not that a big deal because you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. And also because many people don't really take the lore as seriously as they do other fighting games.
@@ermacn.cheese726 Honestly not trying to pick a fight here, but there are issues with your points.
Sakura and Karin do NOT look like fighters. Their designs are nothing more than modified sailor uniforms with sparring gloves. If you took the gloves off, no one who was ignorant of SF could tell you that they were fighters. Their fighting spirit and identity as martial artists are not conveyed through any part of their design aside from the gloves (Sakura’s headband can only really convey sportiness). And why does it matter that she doesn’t use a particular style? Blanka, Abigail, Rose, Menat, Necro and Necalli all fit in this category. Why does it matter that magic is her main or only means of doing damage? She has one of, if not the smallest frames in the game’s history so using primarily magic makes sense. And I still cannot understand how you can accept the absurdities of old and not the ones of more recent games/characters. You also spoke about the realistic believability of someone like Gill, but I never said he was unbelievable. I said he was weird, comparable even to Ingrid. As for calling her “schlock”, that really is just your own personal taste. You have a right to it, but it’s irrelevant to making a point. She may not look like a goddess to you or any number of people, but they’re mythological beings anyway, so in a game they can really look like anything. And so what if she created Psycho power? First of all, that’s currently not true canon; second, Ingrid’s “canon” is consistently inconsistent as mentioned in the video; and third, Psycho power is a supernatural energy, so it’s believable that it was created by a supernatural being. Idk how the 2 characters’ powers compare, but if Gill is a “god” and can be beaten, then so can Ingrid. I’ve read up on Bison and it seems he has fully mastered Psycho power, and the only thing holding him back is his mortal body which is impressive enough. Ingrid is a goddess so, as far as I can tell, that’s the only reason it’s not an issue for her.
Who said Cage, Dan or Zack were for idol fans? I said they were goofy, which was your complaint about Chloe. And their competence in fighting has nothing to do with that goofiness. So again, why is only Chloe’s goofiness annoying? And you say her and Josie were included only because they were cute girls. I say, what’s wrong with that? Like I said, it seems like anything goes for playable fighters, so why are aliens, bears, and stubby-legged robots more acceptable than a pop star speaking Engrish? Also, like it or not, idol culture is a huge MAINSTREAM thing in Japan, NOT just “weeaboos”, and not just males either. It’s far more likely that these characters were added for more (Japanese) mainstream appeal.
@@Kanti852 Sakura and Karin are kinda realistic in the sense that "hey, they may be annoyingly cutesy schoolgirls, but they practice martial arts and are still human beings who want to win the tournament". Ingrid isn't that. From the (non-canon as of now) info we have on her, she swoops in and wants to kill Bison and stop the satsui no hado, despite not knowing why or how. And Sakura and Karin are early characters, before the waifu craze pushed japanese game devs to shoehorn that kind of stuff into their game. So you wouldn't easily suspect them for being cheap masturbation bait as you would nowadays. It's a good thing Ingrid is not-canon, because her creating psycho power would be utterly stupid and undermine the threat of M. Bison. The problem with Ingrid becoming canon (story beats and all) goes with a lot of series: you have to introduce it early on. If Ingrid was introduced as early as SF2 as a goddess who chapherones the human fighters, it's still silly and dumb but whatever, at least it was hinted early on. But as late as SF6 and introducing Ingrid as a goddess should rightfully piss off anyone who gives a crap about SF's story, because she still just outclasses all the major villains without looking the part and her suddenly power scaling.
I never said Johnny Cage, Dan or Zack were for Idol fans. Lucky Chloe IS for idol fans or whatever cutesy kawaii girl diehards that I personally find stupid, there's almost no debate she doesn't exist other than anything that that. A wooden dummy, a wonky robot, and a literal goddamn bear (there are no confirmed aliens in Tekken I think) are actually solid attempts at a funny joke and are unexpectedly weird. Lucky Chloe is not funny. Humor is subjective, but even so, Lucky Chloe feels much more like bait for idol fans more than attempting to parody it. She's annoying as hell, same with Josie and other high-pitched anime-based chicks newer fighting games tend to like. I don't find Mokujin, Kuma, or Combot annoying particularly because they don't talk. Nor do they feel like they were shoehorned to chase after those who like a certain thing (in this case, Idol culture).
Specific people hated Lucky Chloe, because they felt personally attacked by her existence, those people are referred to as weebs.
Weebs? I would think a LOT of weebs would be more happy to see Chloe rather than hate her existence since she relates to them as anime fans. I would say those specific people are antis.
(Well I lost my original post because mobile UA-cam sucks ass but anyway)
As an outsider to the DOA franchise i think i can kinda understand the issues with Marie Rose and Honoka
1. They look and kinda act cutesy and underaged. DOA isn't a stranger to underaged girls, Kasumi and Ayame were underaged in prior games, but they never looked and acted as such afaik. Meanwhile we straight up have Goth Lolita and Japanese school girl defaults who, from what I've seen so far, act kinda childish. Now if they were young like how the other girls were introduced I'd think whatever but apparently they were 18 on introduction which makes me think
2. They're explicitly bait characters. Now, DOA is also no stranger to using its assets to its advantage, Volleyball anyone?, but these two feels like they were for a specific group that fell hook, line and sinker for it. To the point where
3. They've effectively become the faces of the franchise despite being extremely recent. Like said in the video, these two get pushed the hardest since they have recent popularity, which, for long time fans can be annoying since most of the characters with decades of good will built are getting sidelined by the new bait. While it's true that pushing the new popular thing is smart, it doesn't mean people are happy about it.
Like I said, I'm an outsider and thus have no issue with them since I don't care to begin with but I think I can understand the hatred.
@a HERO that doesn’t know what protect means yeah, out of the 4 characters, Ingrid is the only one I don't understand at all
Lucky Chloe i get, Marie Rose and Honoka i get, Ingrid is the odd one out
I agree with this mostly, but I just wanted to add that watching Marie rose and honoka in the story mode for doa6 is what really made me hate them. I can just look past characters that don't interest me, but when they more or less become the protagonists, and are annoying as hell throughout the entire story, then they become a problem imo.
@@JameboHayabusa This. Conceptually, the story wasn't any more terrible than any other DOA I've played, but when they were on the screen the quality of it's execution dipped immensely. Whoever worked on it was maybe trying to make people hate them, it seems.
Ken and Ryu ruined fighting games, sometimes all my opponents want to use Ken
That's the most relatable comment I've seen here yet
"They dont belong in a fighting game" my brother in christ, you can play as a bear and a kangaroo in tekken
Ingrid seems to be kind of like the word “moist” -people only claim to hate her because of peer pressure, you’re “supposed” to hate her.
In addition to the factors you mentioned with Chloe I think another reason people hated her so much is because she’s “too Japanese” or “too anime” for a lot of the American fans, who like pretending Tekken is an Americanized, “manly” game series and having a cute idol is way too far. She belongs in the game way more than fucking Negan, that’s for sure.
Marie Rose and Honoka are by far the dumbest ones. None of the complaints about them really make any sense seeing as DOA’s reputation is and has always been being a booba game. Marie’s only real difference from the rest of the cast is that she has a small chest, lmao. Also, DOA has always been an “actually legit fighting game”. People just overlooked it because the marketing focused entirely on booba and not its aspects as a fighter. Having to compete with Tekken didn’t help.
As I said with Lucky Chloe, the only thing people hate about these characters is this kind of macho American hostility to “cuteness” or moe aesthetics for being “too Japanese” or “too anime”. You see the same kind of attitude with the hostility we used to see towards things like Final Fantasy protagonists being attractive, “pretty” men. It’s honestly kind of xenophobic at the end of the day.
My limited experience with people who dislike these types of characters come with all sort of elaborate over justifications as to why these are objectively bad characters but there’s this underlying just purely emotional hatred of anything they deem too girly.
Not to say that there aren’t people out there who can dislike these characters for legit reasons, but there really are these guys out there who just misoginistically hate girly things.
You can have a bear, a kangaroo, a nerd, a succubus, a robot kid, a dog, a cactus, a skeleton, a demon, a fking CAR and Pepsiman as fighters, but don't you dare put a kawaii anime girl, cuz that doesn't belong in a fighting game for some reason.
The one thing I dislike about Lucky Chloe is that she vocally telegraphs her attacks, so your enemy literally hears what you're going to do. I don't wanna play a character like that.
that's like 90% of tekken characters tho lmao
Dorya!
@@jaex663 that's more like 100% characters of Street Fighter calling out their attacks like they're in some anime.
I can't take Marie and Honoka seriously or with hate because my coomer brain has looked at too much material of them to even care lmao
I don't think the character are bad but the game which they have been created started the downfall of DOA into DLC heaven. Even today, I still found funny that a game have more than 1000$ of costume dlc and how much worse their greed turn out in DOA 6.
That's sounds like a you problem
@@ratedr7845 why yes, what compelled you to point it out?
It's really simple. It's a sense of fake, machismo men that think these games are all supposed to be super serious and hardcore and edgy. You see the same people in the Dragon Ball community complaining ANY time a character that isn't hardass goku or vegeta on the screen. They've built a false representation of their own sense of masculinity into the franchise. Who do these people main when they complain in the most violent and sexist ways? It's brian, jin, devil jhin, dragonuv some kind of "cool edgelord that don't give no craps about anyone"
They're projecting. And characters like Chloe shatters that projection, the illusion that they're playing a cold, hard, sweaty, and edgy game built for macho men and cool dudes.
I don't even play Chloe or like the archetype. I identify with cool/badass women like Lidia and Baiken, but I don't hate the girly girls at all. They have every right to exist. These people on the other hand believe "THEIR" game is being taken away from them by characters like Chloe.
Seriously. Being mad at power levels is absurd.
In KOF, you know who one the strongest characters is? Athena.
She can make people explode with her mind, fly without Chizuru's help, kill monsters that covered the entire earth in darkness, use her blade to again, make people explode and is implied to be the canon heroine of SNK Heroines alongside Kula, and can be wanked to scale to the Goddess Athena, which can destroy whole universes in her games.
The only reason she loses is the same reason Nakoruru doesnt kill people on KOF14. It is forbidden to kill your foes.
and yet some people love her.
The same goes the other way.
Sakura and Asuka from SF and Tekken are canon fodder, low tier in power levels and would never beat any villian or important character in a fight yet people are in love with them and do not wince and complain at the sight of them beat Akuma or Ogre.
Honoka also is justified in her power level since she is Kasumi/Ayane's sister.
oh, no, people hate Athena, too
she's just been in too long to get rid of easily now, though, so they aren't as loud
note that all the characters in the video came in part way through their respective series, unlike Athena
@@Iffem Well, i main Athena and really like her, so i really cannot say i want her gone. She fits right in KOF as that never was a "buff boys" game at any point.
Also, You are wrong if you think Athena is an KOF original character.
She is ffrom Psycho Soldier and has her own PS1 Survival Horror game.
@@luigifan001 i think you misunderstood me. I never said she was KoF original... hell, a surprisingly small number of KoF characters are, especially if you're looking at characters who have been around in the KoF series from early on. Athena got into KoF early on and i'm pretty sure she has a perfect attendance record for the series, so no matter how much people hate her, they know she's not gonna be excluded.
@@Iffem Rightfully so. She is fun as fuck to play.
I’m sorry, but the intense hatred for these characters are just gonna make me wanna play them even more🤷🏽♀️
You are my spirit animal.
If tournament regs would’ve let me, I’d have tossed my Tae Kwon Do uniform for a frilly skirt in a heartbeat back when I was a young teenager and competed every chance I got. At least the pants were comfortable, though.
I legit only know Ingrid from PXZ2. I had no idea she was hated at all.
Technically the argument that Ingrid doesn't fit in the street fighter is kinda valid considering she was designed by a former member of SNK after they went bankrupt the first time
She appeared in a CROSS-OVER game that had a dinosaur and a guy with a lions head as playable fighters
@@Doktor_Jones Yes but also no her first appearance was in a different game that got canceled where she was gonna be one of three main characters all and all three of them were designed by a former SNK Developer who was fresh off of on of the many bankruptcies the company so he stil hadl the SNK design philosophy in him not that it would have mattered since the game was supposed to be 3D so some people wouldn't have noticed but the game didn't test well with audiences during the first preview so capcom to save money cut the project and had him work on a cheap crossover game and he just put her in there
@@Doktor_Jones Matt McMucles has a whole video on this
the real question is, who cares wtf Eddie mains have to say, lmao
Eddy mains were on edge because they thought they wouldn't be able to cheese easy wins at low levels in Tekken 7 smh
@@DXYS95 yeah, now that they cant be goblins and spam lows without consistently getting punished.
Lucky Chloe is plenty cheesy
I liked all these characters and there designs! But I'm a simple lad give me cute girl get a thumbs up from me. I also like how when I say I like Ingrid my friend get salty. Also I really like Honoka and think she's one of the color move copycat character.
Also yeah I got The Doa ships in azur lane.
Going to be honest I don't really mind Ingrid or lucky Chloe at all in fact I actually really like to play lucky Chloe against one friend of mine because he just cannot deal with them lows Mary Rose and Hanoka on the other hand I do wish weren't pushed as much but I don't absolutely hate the characters just wish we put a little more focus on some of the legacy characters
They struck gold with Marie and Honako and seemed to adopt the mindset of "if you aren't popular we don't care" at least that's how it seems as an outsider. Tho I am happy Marie's popularity got team ninja to add in more small breasted characters.
Marie and Honoka in a nutshell. They came onto the scene late into DOA5 and Japan loved them but the West was indifferent to disliking them mostly. Of course Koei caters to their main audience in Japan so they make more appearances and have a pretty big role in DOA6's story. (Said story sucked, a lot, but they were far from the only problem with it and not really the main problem either.) Much to the western player's dismay.
Also a lot of people seem to say they're "too moe." Forgetting Kasumi used to have a baby face.
Thats not true though, they are very popular in the west too. The only difference is that here, people who hate them like to scream it so everyone can hear xD.
And they forget that in the first DOA release Kasumi isn't even 18.
I can't stop laughing at "Zangief pile driving E. honda into it."
I’m calling it now. Ingrid is the last character to be in season 5 as the true joke character
the real joke would be decapre is back
I see Ingrid and "ruin" in the same thing, I already like it! Lol
Man, I hate that Athena wannabe.
Why?
@@jamg25 well, TO ME, because she looks like a "Capcom attempt" to make a character like Athena Asamiya. I know he isn't an idol like Athena, but the looks, the style of her powers, and her inconsistency as a character due to how and when she was portraited in the fighting games she appeared didn't help at all.
Plus, why they never gave a chance to D.D. or Rook for example? Why they kept investing on her? Well, I'm glad that now she has been reduced to an easter egg only.
Funny considering SNK was doing...
@@captainmega6310 How can one rip off something when they themselves are the original creator?
No, seriously. As much as Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting is lauded for ripping off Street Fighter, people forget that the team for those games used to work on Street Fighter.
Its kind of like complaing about how Marvel ripped off DC with the Fantastic Four (stealing from Challengers of the Unknown), or vice versa with Guardian (stealing from Captain America). ALL of those characters are created by Jack Kirby.
@@BigK13372 uh... I was talking about some characters...
I think for Ingrid it wasn't really ruined canon, but from what I remember people saying was Canon power level.
People liked the precedent that Cody, Charlie, Oro, & more had placed.
Then for it to be changed to magic, magic, & magic (Then in SFV killing one of the considered strongest with bullet), I think took away from the "Street Fighter."
While there's obviously loads of magic, strength became outclassed immensely.
For Lucky Chloe, I think I could only remember Twitter anger over sexualization or high femininity?
Though the Eddie argument I could see, he always held an important place to alot of people, even those who played competitively (Love or hate), so to see what was basically his moveset just inferior, probably annoyed people.
(She was also a noob killer, so with that boost no doubt she'd gain notoriety with the inclusion of so much comeback potential)
For Hinoka and Hidori, honestly I can't think of much, I actually like what they both represent.
But if I were to assume, jumping to face of an IP probably rubbed people the wrong way.
It'd be like if Cammy and Chun got dropped for C.Viper & Sakura.
Keeping Ryu & Ken, it'd have 3 Shotos as faces and then completely negating how much importance Cammy and Chun held.
Granted I'm not too sure on DoA so this is only assumption as to how people felt.
I don't understand the hatred. However I do understand the reasoning- I think the criticism of being "unrealistic" or "not fitting" or "too anime" are a misspoken rebuttal, or rather just not well enunciated. Bears and Puppets and sexy women are fine because they can "reasonably" put up a fight- as in, it's not too far beyond suspension of disbelief. Then you get non-fighters who are literally just little girls, their background doesn't speak much to combat skills.
The problem with that logic is, this is video games. And that's not to say "anything goes", but rather there's a lot of room for creativity, some people just need to pull the stick outta their ass. Honestly Ingrid looks dope
Bro, your excuse for Lucky Chloe *REALLY* sucks, which doesn’t really surprise me after knowing what kind of weeb you are. But let me explain why Lucky Chloe is hated.
Tekken 7 in general has possibly the worst cast of new original characters in the entire franchise. Shaheen is basically Banco‘s version of Rashid just blander, Katarina is Rule 63 Miguel, Josie has the stereotypical „i don’t want to fight“ attitude whilst just copying Bruce‘s playstyle, Gigas is just a brainless Marduk, Kazumi is the biggest wasted potential in Tekken history who only brought up more questions than answers and then of course, we get Lucky Chlie, a J-Pop star with all the annoyance of one too. The only character i can praise is Claudio because he is an interesting and unique character that contributes to the main ongoing story, even if he looks like a Final Fantasy 15 character (oh the irony). And i would even give Gigas the pass because he actually looks really cool. And no, i don’t really count Master Raven because she is basically him, just with some tweaks in character. Those may not be bad in general, but extremely lazy and generic characters compared to others like Bob, Miguel, Bryan, Yoshimitsu and even Zafina. (I know, i didn’t include DLC‘s like godlike Leeroy Smith, but that’s because they are that, DLC‘s.) And again, whilst most of them aren’t bad and more so just generic and uninspiring, Chloe *is* bad and annoying.
And story wise, there is a difference in characters getting a Looney Tunes ending on the side non-canon and getting the same treatment in Canon. Paul and Law dying in an explosion in Tekken 6? Non canon. Hwoarang fighting Devil Jin in Tekken 5 ending? Canon. And all the „stories“ in Tekken 7 have a hint of Canon in it. Hwoarang wears his eyepatch because of his rematch with Devil Jin. King using moves of his friends and others. And yes, out of Eddie and Chlie‘s endings, Chloe‘s is seemingly Canon. In a „6 million copies sold“ celebration poster, you can see Eddie being basically Lucky Chloe‘s servant, which means that Loony ending you spoke of turned real for Eddie.
Do proper research before trying to defend trash.
People thinking Chloe would replace Eddy is hilarious. Eddy does capoeira and Lucky tricks
I think it happens when they introduce new characters that aren't likable, look dumb and are a lil overpowered and make classic fan favorite characters look like shit
So, at the end, I find funny that you put lili in the "Okay" category because, as a tekken 7 and Lili player. I'm pretty sure Lili is even more disliked than Chloe.
I think because they have childish personality and people who hate them are vocal and a little voice from people(weeabs) who like them, and people with neutral say is intimidated by people who shout they hate them so they're like "yeah, we also hate them, whatever".
I played the SFA3MAX myself on an emulator, and I have some games with Ingrid as well. Seeing this video right now, I get the mysterious lore she has in this IP, like I *GET* it, literally. What I don't understand is that why the are some people who are hated her, like there's no explanation. And I was like, really?
For those who dislike a character for no apparent logical reason, you need a therapy. Man, they need to get a grip.