Was The Eastern Conference TOO WEAK or Was LeBron James TOO DOMINANT?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 чер 2020
- #LeBronJames #MichaelJordan #KobeBryant
Social Media Links:
- Twitter: / yungmustard23
- Instagram: yungmustard...
- Snapchat: / shemoansmarvel
- My Discord Link: / discord
Latest Episode of The Open Book Podcast: • Video
Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Instrumental: • DJ Grumble - Lex's The...
Hit up @dahrwijnfx on Twitter; / dahrwijnfx , for the best thumbnails on UA-cam!!!
Dahrwijn Discord Link: / discord - Спорт
RIP George Floyd ✊🏿
Just a question what critics where saying that MJ should have went to more finals !?
Also as a Lebron fan I can’t really say that he was too dominant or that the east was too weak, I think it is a mixture of both, Lebron james in my opinion if you put him on a team in the west like the Grizzlies or the trailblazers do you think Lebron still would have gotten to the finals I say yes but what is ur opinion.
@@venkataavula6098 what year tho
Some people say that LeBron went to more Finals than MJ, and what about the years he didn’t get there, especially his 1-9 phase before Pippen
Yung Mustard agreed but that did not answer my question say if you put him in a team with a stat and good role players would he get to the finals in ur opinion throughout the 2000s
@@YungMustard there's a reason why lebron played 40 win teams and that's because he was always the 1st seed playing the 8ht seed
Nah, the east has always been strong, a team from the eastern conference has rrached the NBA finals EVERY YEAR
They had us in the first half
Your Dumb
underrated comment 😂
Facts!!🗣🔥🔥
That’s very accurate
While the east was weak, lebron was just so high above everyone at the time (especially in the east) that no one could really do anything about him. So I say it was both
Yea
Nah he just had the most stacked team in the conference
@@indmslikedeez8005 He made his team stacked by himself being. He could've stayed on the Cavs and he still would've made the finals every year as long as Chris Paul with the Cavs in 2012 (Which he likely would've, LeBron and CP3 are really close). He didn't need all stars. He just needed one. In 2018 the Cavs were horrible and he carried a bigger load than anybody in NBA history - he even had 49% of the Cavs win shares
In DMS Like Deez his first 7 years too? Check ya facts
@@indmslikedeez8005 you do realize that he had a bad team for most of his career, right? He only had "a stacked team" for 4 years, and a competitive team for 4 additional years. He's been playing for 17 years! 9 years with shitty teams would ruin any other player's career. Look at Kemba, a great player on a sucky team for his whole career so far, and only now is he getting any recognition...when he leaves the sucky team.
That's cuz he was an 8th seed for the 1st 4 to 5 years of his career
i was going to say that. like duh jordan gonna go against harder teams when hes a lower seed while lebron going against weaker teams cuz hes a higher seed. thats just common sense.
In 2013 the Mavericks took the spurs to 7 games in the first round. The suns missed playoffs with 50 wins .
Jordan was low seed for only first 3 years. After that he finished no worse than 3rd every year but 1, which was a sixth seed.
@@H2O_Malone yes, but people still choose to use the 1-9 without Scottie argument. Double standards i guess.
Moonshine yea because Scottie was a non factor until his 3rd season
I mean the first round teams are obviously gonna be bad when he leads his team to the 1 or 2 seed just saying
Thats exactly what i was thinking people tearing down lebron for having better teams with high seeds so ofc he goona play a shit team in the first round whatvwhat every top seed deserves and that should in his accomplishments
Exactly
Exactly lmao
This is true, but people should consider that there are lesser good teams in the east.
In the regular season, a team will play 4x against 10 teams with in the same conference and 3x to the other 4 teams and will only play twice on the other conference. Now if theres only few teams that are good in a conference, say 4 teams, it will be easier for them to reach the top 4 spot and will then be match with a much weaker team on 1st round of playoffs. On 2007, on the east confernce, only two teams had 50+ wins, cavs and pistons. Most of the time there are only 3 teams with 50 wins up. While in the west confernce, there are atleast 4 and up teams with 50 wins. On 2008, all 8 teams has 50 plus wins. This just show how weak the east is. Weaker confernce means, easier to be at higher seed.
Lebron is great though, only few all stars will be able to dominate on those circumstances especially him being alone to carry the cavs team.
He already pointed out that in the West there were years where you needed 50 wins to even make the playoffs. Look up 2008 and 2010. 50 wins is considered a great team....in a great conference.
At the start your forgetting that LeBron was always a top seed
Jacob Larson Lebron didnt even make the playoffs for a number of years
Christian Soldier he missed the playoffs 3 times
The weak East was indeed LeBron's fault. Or it was a consequence of his decision. See, when he left to join another superstar (D Wade), he robbed his former team of its best player (himself) and increased the talent of his new team (Miami). Then when he recruited Chris Bosh away from Toronto, he destroyed another franchise's ability to compete while making his team even stronger.
LeBron did the same thing when he left Miami for Cleveland to team with Kyrie and recruited Kevin Love away from Minnesota.
Someone had to say it!
Nice work Yung Mustard 👌🏻
If we gotta be honest lebron was a dominant player in the east even his conference was weak with bad compettion
Both but at the end of the day you beat who’s in front of you ain’t Bron fault the east was weak
Then why do people criticize Jordan for playing supposedly weaker finals opponents? If lebron gets a pass for playing weak EC teams simply because that is what is in front of him, then Jordan deserves the same when it comes to the finals. It’s only fair.
@@justamessenger4577
I've not heard 1 person say that.
Not a MJ fan, a LeBron fan, not a Kobe fan, not 1 person say that MJ played in a weak conference.
@@iman5147 hey just cause you haven't run into it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. kinda like racism i guess.
Yes it is. You join Wade and eliminate having to compete against him when he was the second best player in the east, 2nd best sg in the league behind Kobe, then you call Bosh off of his team in Toronto, top 3 pf in the league at that time. You’ve eliminated 2 threats, and have now made it so your 3rd best player could be the best player on every team you play.
Well in terms of greatness joining Miami kind of created a disparity of competition in the East, pulling all the key players from key players on other eastern teams. And all the ones he didn’t take most of them went west, there was a time between 2014-2018 where outside of LeBron, the top ten players were all western conference players, this of course is not LeBrons fault but if Bron played in the east in 2019 he wouldn’t have came out the east
keep up the good work dawg love your vids
2011: Dominance
2012: Dominance
2013: Both
2014: Both
2015: Dominance
2016: Weak Conference
2017: Weak Conference
2018: Absolute Dominance
Fax
2011: Best team in Eastern Conference
2012: Best team in Eastern Conference
2013: Best team in Eastern Conference
2014: Best team in Eastern Conference
2015: Best team in Eastern Conference
2016: Best team in Eastern Conference
2017: Best team in Eastern Conference
2018: Absolute Dominance
There i fixed it for u ;)
Ben Simmons will never hit a 3 haha. Nice.
@@bensimmonswillneverhita3317 In 2015 Bulls were actually the best team.
@@niweshlekhak9646 and in 2011
Very very weak. In 2018 Boston made it to escf with a rookie Tatum as the best player. Even Toronto was not that good during derozen and Lowry era, IND Paul George was his rival but when pg went to west he couldn't get out of the first round.
Oladipo also battled him to game 7.
But in 2019 the east was really good, it's the best east conf since the 90s
Toronto with kawhi
Milwauk with brogdon and Gil
Phil with Butler
Boston with kyrie
I don't think Kyrie should be blame for the Boston in 2019, it's just a stacked team that year. In 2018 Gianni's was only starting to breakout and he had no help at all
Bro you’re spitting facts
The Cavs weren’t the favorites to get to the 2018 finals
finally, somebody says it was not kyrie's fault.
The east in the 90s was overrated considering you had 4 expansion teams that were under 20 wins numerous times that's at 10+ free wins. Sorry can't let that slide the 90s east has some of the most overrated inflated win teams evers. Just saying.
PG13 was Lebron rival because Derrick Rose got hurt
I’m 4 minutes in and it seems like you’re holding the fact that he wins regular season games against him....
💯
Spot on. Your team builds their regular season win/loss record by playing against teams of both conferences.
Let's go excited for this video
If Lebron makes it out the west what becomes the narrative
Exactly.
@@sef.aureus then people will say lebron's teams were a stacked superteam. like I bet people are gonna see demarcus cousins, rajon rondo, dwight howard, danny green and avery bradley and say that they were still in their primes, still all star caliber and that's why the lakers were so good
Don't worry. They won't.
Corey Humphrey Ummm.... what did you say last year when he couldnt even make the playoffs? Lebron only gets to the Finals when he has the best team in his conference
@@knicks8099 Ummm.... Yeah lol
In the 90s, the real finals was the eastern conference finals.
In the 2010s, the western conference finals was the real finals, especially in 2018
🧢
@Dominic dominic
Lebron only beat one 50-win team in the Playoffs during his time in Cleveland from 2003 to 2010, and that against the 2007 Pistons with no 4x DPOY Ben Wallace.
*2007 Cavs faced one team above .500 in East.*
Even in Miami, his East competition was very weak.
*In 2013, For example he beat 0 ( ZERO ), 50-win teamms before making Finals.*
Lebron feasted in the weak East.
@@lVloney no cap
@@allanhouston6759 Huhhhh ? ? ? ?
*2007 detroit Pistons roster: chris webber tayshaun prince chauncey billups rip hamilton rasheed wallace*
go watch soccer, basketball is not for you
@@dynamic6645 Prime LeFlop vs Old Chris Webber and old Rasheed Wallace ? ? AHAHAHA
Lebron fans are desperate.LeExcuses feasted in the weak East.
But he was quickly exposed. vs Spurs.
man was I laughing at the 2:30 minute mark... you wanna no why jordan played 50 win teams in his first 3 playoffs? it's because he made those 3 playoffs on sub .500 teams.... jordan only played better teams in the first round because he had worse records, when you win a lot of games you play teams that didn't in the first round, when you don't, you play more competitive series, that's the whole reason you play a regular season.
85 miwalkee, bulls were 38-44 (38 and in the playoffs, damn that was a great eastern conference...)
86 celtics, bulls were 30-52 (forget what I said before, 30 wins, and in the playoffs? goat eastern conference)
87 celtics, bulls were 40-42 (again, the east was so good this man made 3 playoffs in a row on a losing record)
same for kobe in some of his seasons, because he didn't win as much in the regular season, he had to face higher seeds.. there are of course exceptions such as ok and denver
06 suns, lakers were 7th with 45 wins
07 suns, lakers were 7th with 42 wins
13 spurs, lakers were 7th with 45 wins
It's not a fair comparison to penalize Lebron for winning in the regular season, I agree that that kobe's time in western conference was likely the toughest conference ever, I only disagree with the argument in this case...
at 6:20, it happens, in 2016 the 8th, 7th and 6th seed in the western conference wouldn't have made it in the east, and again I would bring back jordans east where loosing teams made the playoff almost every single year, from 85-96 there were 14 below .500 teams, was jordans east bad? thats how the argument sounds.
and the closing argument you made, lebron beat plenty of high winning teams, probably just as good as the knicks, magic and pacers, he played the 62 win bulls, the 2010-11/11-12/17-18 celtics, 11-12 pacers, 15-16 raptors, 60 win hawks, etc..., and beat them, funny, if lebron beats those teams by a lot "the east is not competitive", if he squeezes by "he is washed, those teams were so bad, thats the only reason he made the finals" there are quite a few teams we don't look at as "all time teams" ONLY because lebron beat them, that is the double standard, if jordan beats a 50 win team easily "he is just that good" if lebron does it "the team was trash".
And it's not the argument that I disagree with, Lebron had a pretty laid back eastern conference to go through, not trash, but not great, it was a regular conference, nothing special either way, but the blatent double standards are amazing...
Some moron will call you a "Bronsexual," but you are spitting facts. Yung Mustard seems a tad *bit* biased against Lebron so he didn't mention any of this. You can probably measure a conference better by adding up all the total wins and compare to the western conference of that year, or compare to an eastern conference of a different era. But you'd also need to look at which conference won the championship that year, and other calculations.
I'd like someone to make a real deep dive into this a bit further
Facts
Michael Jordan only played 18 games in 1986. The Bulls were 9-9 with him, 21-43 without. They would've won in the low 40s if Jordan was healthy. Don't get it twisted, the 80s East may have been very top-heavy, but filled with great teams. Same can be said for the 2016 western conference.
The 2011 Bulls were a 1 man team, and were overachievers. They only won 62 games because of their defense, and Derrick Rose's stellar season. The Celtics were washed by 2012, and were not expected to make the ECF. Pierce, Garnett, and Allen were all over 35 while LBJ was in his peak, and Wade was still at the end of his prime. Pacers in 2012 were alright. Great defensively but you're out of your mind if you think they were on the same level as the teams Jordan faced. The 1997 heat were better than any eastern conference team LBJ faced in his championship-winning seasons yet you never hear about that team. 2016 Raptors' best players were a mentally fragile Demar Derozan who couldn't shoot, and Kyle Lowry who was known for being a perennial playoff choker back in 2016. The 18 Celtics, is that a joke? Their best postseason player was a Rookie Tatum. Most people did not even see them beating the Bucks in the 1st round. The 2015 Hawks were just a regular season team and everyone knew it. None of those teams were as good as the '93 Knicks, 96 Magic, '97 Heat, and probably the '98 Pacers, although I think the Big 3 Celtics would have a great chance to beat some of those teams. That's the only team I see not getting blown out against Jordan's best eastern conference opponents, because of their basketball IQ and experience.
In response to your last sentences, most of the 50 win teams Jordan played were better than the 50+ win teams LeBron played, which is why that "double standard" exists
Not reading a long paragraph but that 1st part. He talk about Jordan playing so much comp in the 1st round but if you’re an 8th seed you’re gone be playing 1 of the best teams in the league🤣. Lebron didn’t have that 1st round comp because he did what he had to in the regular season to secure a high seed so I think that should be a knock against Jordan instead of praising him. Like why get mad at Lebron for not playing comp in the 1st round? He earned that. That’s the reward for going hard all season.
Besides, now Lebron in the Western Conference, proving people wrong and he’s not even in his prime anymore. Also folks act like you just dump those 00 Cavs teams in the west. If Lebron was in the West, he’d have better teammates. He’d still be pretty dominant
I remember LeBron going on playoff mode last 2018, only to miss the playoffs. 🤣🤣🤣
Guess he needed a superstar. Like he always did.
Huh last time I checked he took a horrible cavs team the nba finals in 2018 against the kid led warriors
i mean it’s not really lebrons fault idk why people use it to bash him
It's not bashing - its context.
Coz people are overrating him for those consecutive finals apperance
Are we now bashing LeBron for beating teams he should be beating or am I hearing this incorrectly?
Yes, Because People Bash Jordan for the same and honestly its stupid
Yeah, we are apparently. Unless you are 4-5 the first round has rarely any upset. It should not be used to assess the difficulty of the path.
Why not looking at semi and conference finals, you will note that MJ rarely upsetted any team and beat all teams he was supposed to beat. The Bulls were the Goliath of the 90s and in the 80s.
Lebron has Dallas - a big upset, and since then has maybe one of the best game of history.
I remember a 6th seed winning, was the west weak??
@@bravobessa3684 bulls werent good in the 80s they had many issues and supporting cast underperforming in the playoffs like in 1989 and 1990. Mj haters dont talk about that
@@tj5180 you are right. I was mainly talking about the end of the 80s. But let's be honest, at no point the bulls beat a team they were not supposed to beat.
Cast underperformed does not mean he would have won. Because many great players had bad team.
@@bravobessa3684 that's true but my point was when MJ haters claim that he was carried by pippen when after he was drafted. He wasnt a star only a rookie coming from the bench. Jordan was carrying the bulls to the ecf in two seasons straight against a tough east. He was close to winning in 1990 but his teamates underperformed but later beat them in 1991
Well done video! Real GM has a thread saying the east wasn't weak. This is helping make the case they are wrong :)
Does this guy not know how the playoff format works? The lowest seeds verse the highest seeds in the first round. So when you see Jordan versing all these 50 win teams in the first round, it’s because he was one of the lower seeds making it to the playoffs with like 38 wins (literally one year he made the playoffs with a 38- 54 record). Meanwhile LeBron was the one winning 50 games so it makes sense he’d verse the teams that don’t win 50 wins in the first round.
The East was weak AF no doubt. But at the end of the day he played on superteams for like 7 straight years. He completely stacked the deck & other teams had no chance. The guy played with multiple all stars for several years against inferior competition. Nobody even stood a chance with how loaded his teams were. He should’ve made the Finals every year it’s not even that impressive
You are right, but I wouldn’t say super teams, more like very good or great teams...
Oliver Morales The Miami teams were stacked. And the Cavs were pretty good up until that last year when they traded Kyrie.
He had the best team almost every year
@@the_auditor1017 he had the best team in the east but the whole league nope the heat just added lebron , bosh ,a and allen thats all after allen there wernet really that good the cavs were alright
man this was 11 minutes of "the eastern conference has been weak for a long time," like it's news
The playoffs is all bout match up so what determines wether the competition is pour or not is how many games the series when not regular season records
that first rd statline comparing mjs first rd to lebrons is so mf mis leading, ofc your gonna face better 1st rd competition if you have the lower seeds, and mj in 85 and 86 had terrible records, Iin 95, jordan had returned from baseball, so their record was suspect too, this argument is soooooo dumb, giving credit for having a bad record,
Your comment is very misinformed
The west back then was stacked with lot of 50 win teams while in the 2000s the east was not good their were teams like the Celtics in 08 the 04 pistons roster was last time good in 2006 but in 07 they became even weaker with their roster while bulls were still uprising team while magic with Howard couldn’t beat the lakers
I love how this man took the time to break it down to what types of teams lebron was facing,I never thought of it like that before this man has given me a whole new look on basketball,But Now i want to dig even deeper on why the teams were so soft in the first place
0:58 lefts my mans hanging😿
This argument is SO flawed yung mustard and you know for a fact and if you don’t then that’s just sad because all you had to do was a little bit of research in the seasons they had and I did and the result was that in Michael Jordan’s seasons before Pippen when making the playoffs, (1984-1985 season)= 7th seed, (1985-1986)= 8th seed, (1986-1987)= 8th seed, (1987-1988)= 3rd seed, (1988-1989)= 6th seed, (1989-1990)= 3rd seed. As you can see there’s more playoff appearances that are below a 5th seed which results in going up against tougher competition in the playoffs because of it and having to go up against the 1st seed 2 times and the 2nd seed once. LeBron never in his whole nba career had to face a 1st or 2nd seed ever and that’s because he’s always been a top 4 seed in his conference resulting in going up against lower seeding competition. And that alone just destroys your whole argument that’s really just a bad take that’s taken out of context. So in fact if anything Jordan should have won more games in the regular season before Scottie Pippen in order to face off weaker competition in the 1st round. So that just shows how dominant LeBron James was in the Easter conference, while Jordan was not as much before Scottie Pippen
Yeah but the east always had someone like a Larry Bird or Isaiah Thomas the heat were decent back then the east was a lot stronger which is another reason y they weren't a higher seed because the competition out east was so much better and it was Jordan carryin to those first seasons
THANK YOU!!! I was about to go in on this point but I'm glad you realized the flaw in the logic. 🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿
Ballin soro that doesn’t mean Jordan should be in the 8th seed, I would agree with you if there was 6 teams that were SO good that cause Jordan to not be able to be above an 8th seed in some seasons, but in reality there was only maximum 3 so that doesn’t excuse anything
How you forget about the early 2000s best team kings ? But mention the wolves 😂 who were not in the playoff in KG last year
2:03-2:52
The reason Jordan played better teams in the first round from 1985-1989 is because his teams were usually lower seeds. Meanwhile, LeBron was helping his teams have seasons with a winning percentage of at least 60% when making the playoffs in his early Cavalier days despite the supporting cast.
And before anyone says "the East was weak in the 2000s," the East was arguably worse in the 80s considering more teams below .500 made the playoffs from 1985-89 than from 2006-09
How about you tell the context of jordan being and 8th seed and having losing records
They went from 27 wins to 38 in his rookie year where he scored 28ppg as a rookie. Then he broke his foot the 2nd year. 37ppg when he came back the 3rd year and took them to 40 wins. And this is the time when the Western Conference was the weak link. The East was stacked. Cleveland Milwaukee Sixers Celtics and Detroit was winning 50 games every year.
@@smoove2432 they were a 7th seed with a 38-44 record. That's a weak ass conference to me.
@@kennedy8926 a weak conference is when you literally the only team with a real chance to win. That wasn't the case in the East back then. Moses Malone Sixers Birds Celtics and Isaiah Pistons all had realistic championship aspirations. By your logic of the conference being strong 1-8 Kobe and Duncan thr ONLY players to ever have to deal with that
@Ghost2000 right. And he was losing to the Magic Boston etc.... which then made it a even weaker conference cause two playoff teams in Toronto and Cleveland was no longer playoff teams and only one team in the entire conference had 3 stars. All 27 and 28 years of age. So it was obvious who was going to win
@@kennedy8926 there are 11 teams in the conference back then dumbass. Now there are 15. So realistically, you should look at the 6th seed. Not the 8th seed. Stupid bronsexual
Thank you for keeping it 💯. Thank you for giving kobe the respect he deserves. No one has faced tougher comp in the playoffs than this man.
Am sure Shaq was on the frist 3 championship I could be wrong or fuck no Shaq did win the finals MVP those 3 times & was the best player
@@jamainethompson4851 shaq wasn't the best player in the western conference finals. and the western conference finals was always a lot more competitive than the nba finals. you sounding like someone who didn't watch basketball
@@kcbanks3591 Kobe wasn't u could go check his stats
@@jamainethompson4851 2001 33 7 7 against the spurs was better stats than dunking and shaq. 2002 was basically even but game 6 2002 Kobe took that game over to push it to a game 7. go check THE GAME lmao stats don't tell the story kid. also in the finals Kobe was averaging over 25 while guarding the other teams best player. gotta watch the game kid, espn won't tell you that.
@@kcbanks3591 & Shaq was put up 33 point a game & was unstoppable
The east top teams during the LeBron era have normally been trash. Name multiple 60 win teams LeBron played in the East. I will wait
The answer is simple, LBJ was dominant and he beat weak competition in the east
People say that the East was weak? The big 3 Celtics with 3 Hofers. The PG Pacers, The Billups Pistons, and the Dwight Howard Magic, The D Rose Bulls....
2011 they beat a tough bulls team that swept them in the reg season but they were able to beat em in 5 games.
2012 Heat went down 3-2 and Bron played like never before
2013 almost lost to the pacers pushed them to 7 games
2015 that bulls team could have beaten them they prolly would have
2018 those Celtics were better without Kyrie
Let’s break this down a little:
Both have 13 playoffs appearances at this time (14 for lebron if playoffs happen this year). Jordan faced 37 teams (30-7 record) while lebron has faced 45 (35-10 record) so far. Of those playoff teams, lebron has faced 20 that finished with less than 50 wins in regular season while Jordan only 10. So lebron in the same amount of time as Jordan has faced twice as many teams with less than 50 wins as Jordan. So that said, Jordan has faced 27 teams with 50+ wins while lebron only 25. If you take away the finals (always a 50+ win opponent) the numbers drop to 21 and 16 in eastern conference respectively. So Jordan faced a 50+ win team in the playoffs with more frequency no matter how you slice it. If you are one of those people who say Jordan faced more 50 wins teams because he was on lower seeded teams his first three years and had to face a higher seed in the playoffs, fine. remove Jordan’s first 3 years and he still faced 18 50+ win teams in EC which is still more then lebron has faced. So to conclude Jordan faced 50+ win teams 73% of the time lebron only 55% of the time. Take away the finals and those numbers drop to 67% and 44% respectively. It is safe to conclude that jordan faced tougher teams overall in the playoffs.
Your breakdown doesn't really mean anything.
1. The NBA expanded between 1988 and 1995. Along with the other trash teams in the league they fed wins to the teams that could actually play. So you had alot of high win teams at the top and low win teams at the bottom. In 1998 Jordans last Championchip season 5 teams finished with less than 20 wins. That never happened when LeBron was playing.
2. Injuries. In 1991 when Jordan won his 1st chip and he faced a 58 win Lakers team. Their leading scorer was James Worthy. What happened ? He played the finals with an ankle injury, couldn't even play every game. Google "Big SPRAIN James". Also their 3&D player Byron Scott had a shoulder injury and couldnt play all the games either. What happens to a shooter when his shoulder is injured ? He shot 20% from 3 for 4,5 PPG when he was 15 PPG in the regular season. Now do that for every opponent Jordan and LeBron ever faced in the playoffs or your list of 50+ opponents doesnt make much sense.
H0eSpl0n1t1 H0eSpl0n1t1 to your first point about expansion. 5 teams finished with less than 20 wins and another with 20 actually. Wow. Great that never occurred during lebron’s time. Also it had not occurred before in Jordan’s time all the way back to 1985. One occurrence between 1985 and 2020 (35 years), that is called a fluke. The fact is still Jordan faced more 50 wins teams in the playoffs then lebron did, quite a few were those recent expansion teams (hornets heat and magic). Second point: both of those guys played 4 out the 5 games each. Worthy didn’t play too badly and Scott didn’t do much. But injuries are part of the game. The fact is they were still a 58 win team. That will not change. Not gonna check for injuries for every series they were in, that’s ridiculous. So my list makes perfect sense since that is who they actually played. Remember my list was how many 50+ win team they played, not whether they won or not. The records I posted was just extra info.
Your breakdown shouldn’t be done by percentage. It’s not applicable in this situation. You said yourself that Jordan faced 27 and Lebron faced 25 teams that won 50+ games. That’s pretty damn close.
Also, if you go to 2:29, during you’ll see that during Jordan’s finals runs he didn’t face a SINGLE team with more than 44 wins in the first round, and the only time he did was in ‘95 when he didn’t play the whole year.
Also, in the 2 years that Jordan was away a western conference team won the finals with the ‘95 finals ending in a sweep. So how much stronger was the eastern conference really? 🤔
@@H0eSpl0n1t1
By the time James Worthy missed Game 5, the series was already over with the Bulls up 3-1.
The Warriors wasnt fully healthy in 2016, but yall still count that Chip right ? ?
2020 Nba Finals.
Goran Dragic- Missed 4 games.
Bam Adebao- Missed 2 games.
Rookie Tyler Herro ( age 20 ). Still needed 6 games to beat the Miami Heat.
@@timothywatts7725
LBJ feasted in the weak East.
*All-Nba Player.*
LBJ"s era ( 2003/2018 ):
*East-58.*
*West- 147.*
Let"s not forget that Joakim Noah was the last first team All-Nba Player ( 2014 ) besides Lebron before Giannis ( 2019 ).
*2007 Cavs faced one team above .500 in East.* Lol.
Man I thought a video about this would be out already considering how much ESPN brings up the weak east lol , good going YM
It really doesn't matter if LeBron was in the west he still would have dominated. If LeBron had such a easy way to the finals then how come he won 3 championships because by your logic the western conference team that makes the finals should be WAY better than LeBron's team
He won 3 lost 6
@@kaizokubro7398yea and majority of those losses were against the Warriors ,best team in the NBA ever, context matters
its not just about the season records of those eastern conference teams. if you go back and look at which teams those eastern conference teams lost to, its a lot of western conference teams beating them consistently, and if you wanna dig deeper, you can see how many points eastern conference teams were losing to western conference teams by. hint, its a wide gap in both cases.
I think both lebron was a dominant player and you can can go back and just watch some of his playoffs highlights but on the other hand yes the east was weak as well because there was some teams that were good but they were never an actual threat to him.
i thought in the first round, the best seeded playoff team in a conference faces one of the worse playoff teams in the conference
The first year in the west he didn't make it to the play offs . This yr the west got alot of injuries so now he is up there
Great content! Bron stacked his team in the east. Wade and Bosh , then Kyrie and Kevin Love. With context the 8 final trips are not impressive. Thank you!
magic worthy kareem 🤔 does that make they rings not impressive
bird and his 7 hof teammates
bill and his hof teammates
The West was weak in comparisons to the East in the 80s. Everyone knows that. Russell Celtics was stacked, another known fact. Bird did face tough competition in the East (76ers and Pistons).
Bron teams for the entire 2010s were heads and shoulders above everyone in the East.
east was weak. during the last 10 years if you look back at the 8 year finals run 4 of the 5 best teams in the nba were in the west with the 5th being either the heat or the cavs in most of those seasons. now i remember the media preseason when lebron went to the lakers they told me over and over that this roster was better than the roster the cavs had in the finals in 18. if thats the case how is it that they missed the playoffs. even when he came back from injury they were 2 games out of a playoff spot. i remember he activate playoff mode then went on a losing streak.
To be fair (we are dealing with uknowns here), if Lebron did go out West he would very likely be joining a current 50+ win team. Thought his 2009 or 2010 Cavs teams were good winning 60+ games, just imagine if Lebron joined a team like Portland or New Orleans those years.
The wins/losses don’t take into account the qualitative aspects of the teams and context. The 2012-2014 50-something win Indiana Pacers were at least as good as the 60 win 90’s Knicks. They even played similarly yet people discounted them because their play style was anachronistic. That should tell you something.
2013 ECF:
22-year-old Paul George, post-prime David West and overrated Roy Hibbert.
Still needed 7 games to beat the Pacers.
1992 ECSF:
Prime Patrick Ewing, Xavier McDaniel, Anthony Mason, Mark Jackson, John Starks, Charles Oakley.
LeBron fans love to point out how MJ played against plumber's but like to forget how LeBron himself was dominating weak competition in the east
Tell em
And MJ fans always say today’s NBA is soft and they play no defense. And MJ fans love to say Wilt Bill Russell era was plumbers and unathletic white guys.
@@Mckylan not me bronsexual. Get a girl bro and stop riding lebron.
Smh it’s always this type of video
I never heard or see ppl talk about magic And Kareem playing in the weak western conference in the 80s or wilt and Bill Russell playing in a weak era in that 60s but it’s always had to be lebron it’s ok tho haters gonna hate tbh
Shutup
At best he had to face a team with one legitimate star. During his time with the east how many top 10 players did he face and beat? You should count to about 4 - and add how many times he beat Carmelo. THEN consider how many of those players were alone while he was on Miami/Cavs. He didn't beat Dwight before Miami - we can go ahead and say Celtics don't count until 2011 - they don't count after 2011 either. They turned into Rondo and company (yikes). Pacers were young PG and a good core. Roy Hibbert was okay defensively. Toronto was the the best team on paper, but their best player was a shell of himself when they played the Cavs (and it's crazy because he didn't even have to guard Lebron - and Lebron didn't guard him. Derozan just shat himself when he heard Lebrons name). During the 1st run with the Cavs he had to face no one that won anything other than stacked Celtics. Detroit was declining and lost Ben, the main player that gave Lebron issues, so he was bound to beat them eventually.
I hate to say it, but I can't think of anyone in the east that Lebron stopped from winning a chip. There was no one that had a legitimate chance that he beat.
They is huge different between be in west and the east .
You can't control the opponents you face, but beating better teams makes you greater IMO. When comparing Lebron to X legend, the other guy is always beating tougher opponents (in their own conference in particular) and that to me is why their victories are much more impressive and why just counting finals appearances is nonsense.
Honestly it was kinda both lol
When ppl say its not his fault for other teams having weak players and such it is his fault when you form a "big 3" in a already weak conference just so you can save your really energy for the finals. Pg was to young for the pacers to try to beat all 3 and the Celtics was too old . I said this for years yeah he got to the finals 9-10 times but his crew jumped on weaker teams in the east to get there, so of course you are going to get there that many times. While ppl like mj and kobe had to go up against REALLY teams just to even touch the finals.
Kobe had to face the hardest teams, the Eastern conference in Jordan area was not that good people try to make it, he was facing expansion teams, the teams he faced in the East had most of the time one all star with good role players... Reggie Miller and..... Rik Smits.
What about Alonzo Mourning, Tim Hardaway, and Dan Majerle... 3 all-stars. The '97 Heat were better than the 98 pacers, they won 61 games. And the Orlando Magic in 1996 had Shaq in his athletic peak, and a peak Penny Hardaway... They got swept. the Cavs in the early 90s had Mark Price (one of the best shooters ever), Brad Daugherty, and Larry Nance. And in the late 80s when Jordan hit that shot, they had Ron Harper in his prime
Very weak while at the same time Lebron was great. But mustard what I don't understand is Magic and Kareem played in far weaker conferences than Lebron yet people don't keep the same energy.
No. It's still better than lebron's
@@kingdinodragonite3470No they weren’t Magic lost to a team wit 30 wins
Too weak, teams that start to rise and contend like the bulls and pacers always fall due to injuries.
No the Pacers pretty were multiple things: and Roy Hibbert fell off like crazy, Paul George injury, Lance Stephenson signed elsewhere and was never the same, and David West signed with the Spurs, but he was already out of his prime.
Elijah Ruderman yeah i know they had lots of problems but there was no way im listing all of that
Can you share your thoughts on why you think the western conference is consistently better than the East?
East conference was very weak. The east has only been strong for short periods at a time since MJ retired. Lebron is a beast but you can not deny he benefited allot from being in a weak conference.
But what about outside the first round I thought it was 2 more rounds before the finals
Well now that he’s in the western conference if the nba ever comes back we can see what he can do in the playoffs
Lets get all teams healthy
He was also in the west last season and didnt make the playoffs.
mexgiova they were 4th in the West up until Christmas and then he got hirt
Ghost2000 is that still an excuse to not make the playoffs?
@Ghost2000 stop making excuses dude. It makes you sound ignorant.
Dominant? It’s super easy to be that when you’re on teams with all the best players. You team up with the best to beat the rest.
The East was weak and Lebron is still great - both things can be true at the same time
which i explained at the end, but some of these bronsexuals don’t care
Where you go for 6 day’s time to grind is now
Do a video on the Goat of each decade and make a prediction on who is going to be the Goat of the 2020’s
90’s:mj
00’s:kobe
10’s:lebron
20’s:kawaii or giannas(luka maybe🤷♂️)
Derrick Rose was Lebrons only competiton in the East. The Celtics/Pacers only made it because the Bulls didn’t 2012-2014. 2015-2018 is a whole different story the hawks with no all nba players. Celtics with a 5’9 PG. the fucking raptors and a rookie Tatum and jaylen brown
A bit of both
Yeah but you have to remember that they in the first three years or before Scottie was drafted he was in the lower seeds
East was too weak but Lebum james still need built a super team to pass through the weak east,how pathetic
If you need a “superteam” to win in your conference, doesn’t that mean the conference is stronger than you think?
Even tho Lebron was playing weak competition in the first round it's because of the regular season wins that Lebron gets each season that leads up to him playing weak competition in the first round. That why Jordan in mid-80's had to go up against a 60-win Celtics team in the first round (there was even a time where a Jordan-led bulls team made the playoffs at a record of 30-52!!)
Besides, the competition that you talked about Lebron playing was only about the first round opponents and not the 2nd or 3rd round.
For example, at 6:01 you mentioned the 76ers being 500 win percentage but don't mention that he had to play the 56-win superteam celtics and also didn't mention 62-win bulls led the mvp (Derrick Rose.)
Also, you questioned at 9:13 if there were any teams Lebron played in the east that were better than pistons, knicks, magic, and pacers.
I will say there isn't a team in the east that Lebron played that is better than the Bad Boy Pistons and only teams I would say that is close is the 2007 pistons and 2011 celtics.
The magic team that Jordan went against in 1995 was good team but outside of Penny and Shaq there isn't much else great about the team and I've seen about a few teams that Lebron played in the east that were better. Lebron played the 2015 hawks who won 60 games and not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 ALL-STARS (if you don't believe me, look it up) and Lebron still managed to sweep that team without Kyrie or Kevin Love. The 2007 pistons were better than this Magic team and so were the 2011 celtics.
I feel like the all the teams I mentioned in the last paragraph were also better than the Knicks that Jordan had to go up against.
And don't get me started with you mentioning the pacers that Jordan had to go against. All the teams I already mentioned were better than this team, every team that Lebron played in the 2018 playoff were better, the bulls from 2011-2015 were better, and even the 2014 pacers were better than the Reggie Miller. Both the Paul George-led pacers and the Reggie Miller-led pacers were based off of having 1 star surrounded by some good role players. With that being said Paul George was better than Reggie Miller. The only thing Miller is better than George at is shooting and George isn't even bad at that either. George is a way better defender, a way better finisher, had way better dribbling, better physical attributes, and is just simply the better player while Reggie Miller isn't as great as you think.
Last thing, since you want to talk about "adding context" to things🙄, just note that during MJ's era there were 6 expansions teams and wasn't as many great teams in the 1990's like the 1980's. So with being said, there were a small amount of good teams in the 1990's and they were getting their record boosted off of playing horrendously bad teams in the regular season. For example, in 1998 teams like the Bulls, Jazz, Supersonics, and Lakers got 60+ wins but part of that had to do with 5 teams not even getting 20 wins.
So...yes the west during Lebron's time was better and to some extent Lebron has played some played bad comp in the east but only in the first round. It was more of Lebron being just that great than him just relying bad competition. Even tho Lebron didn't make the playoffs in games that Lebron played he had a winning record and once he became healthy again he the championship.
I can agree that Kobe played higher competition than Lebron but not MJ.
Many LeBron fans don't what context means nor do they use it in their talking points. Hence, that whole stupid 1-9 thing they love to bring up.
I don't think it's the right time to make this video.
Dude is one of the favourites to win a championship in a very tough western conference with 35 years.
Tough west ? Tell me your joking. Kobes was better in 2010 and 2008 also in 2009 going against tough western conference teams who won 50 plus games. No disrespect to lebron Lakers tho.
Ok about the 50 wins point. Maybe the reason Lebron wasn’t facing 50 win teams in the first round is because his team was always seeded very high so he played against lower ranked teams. And the reason Jordan faced 50 win teams in the first round is because his team was ranked lower
This First Round Argument doesnt Makes Sense cause its different of came First in Ur conference or 4th or something
To the people complaining about the first part with first round talk what about the rest of the video
sooooooo... we should get rid of conferences ?
The most ironic thing of all time is Lebron fans trying to discredit Giannis’ stats and team success bc he plays in the East 😂
Ray Allen’s Jumper I think giannis is the mvp and the EAST is very great this year. Heat Bucks Celtics are great teams and the pacers 76ers Are good
The Leastern conference
When it got tough LeBron quit. When was that? 2018 first time he had 2 game 7s and ran because the next season those top teams juiced up. Injured players were back.
that is completely false. he left because his team was dog shit
He left cause no one was willing to come to cleveland, thats why he made his decision so late in 2018
First❤️
A little bit of both
And this is Bron's 17th year at 35 year old in the West. His got his team to the 1st spot in West and running over teams easily in the playoff right now
Cuz the West is weaker
@@Kaibeast-kv1xu um no stfu lmao. Dallas, Denver, Pelicans, Houston, Clippers, OKC, Utah all got much better.
@@khoado123 Just by last years playoffs 1. Warriors, 2. Nuggets, 3. Portland, 4. Houston, 5. Utah, 6. OKC, 7. Spurs 8. Clippers>>> This years Dallas, Pelicans getting better doesn't make it harder if they weren't in the playoffs. I agree with you on everything else except the Blazers but that doesn't mean it was more difficult. This year was so competitive that the 8th seed was a 48 win team
Fake playoffs
@@nonamewillbegiven9989 cry more lil bitch
And my counter argument to this is always what if any team...I mean any team from the west drafted him back in 03'. Memphis with Gasol and battier , Phoenix with marion and Stoudemire , Minnesota with Garnett...any team in the West draft him and it's a bulls like dynasty. He just so happened to get drafted by the worse ran franchise ever and turned them into a powerhouse still before he left.
MJ = GOAT, LeBrick = goat cheese.
The argument about the first round doesn’t make much sense because Jordan was a basically a losing team the first few years he got to the first round. Lebron usually played bad teams because he was going against 7-8 seeds while Jordan was playing against 1-3 seeds in his first few years, like what?
Yea the first round piece was a little exaggerated. However even if you take those years away Jordan still faced more 50 win teams in playoffs then lebron in the EC over the length of this playoff career.
The eastern conference was just too weak, there was no balance compared to today. You can also look at the cast of all stars throughout the years from the east, Antawn Jamison, Jameer Nelson, Devin Harris, Gerald Wallace, David Lee made the all star team while some more deserving players got cut out on all star selections from the west.
Also team wins, 7th seed and 8th seed in the west conference was just that good that they would place in the top 4 of the eastern conference and teams below .500 making the playoffs in the east. There are lot of evidence suggesting it is clear the east was just weak for more than a decade
yes context matters. like how the Cavs were a lottery team without bron and the bulls went from winning 57 games with Jordan to 55 games when he retired the first time. ya know? a little context since you said It matters. also how his teammates were regularly hurt in the finals.
Thats not context
A little Column A, a little column B
I would say the KG Paul Pierce Ray Allen & Rondo Celtics are up with those teams u mentioned that Jordan had to face.
2012 ECF:
Post-injuries Kevin Garnett ( age 36 ), Ray Allen ( age 36 ), Paul Pierce ( age 34 ), Rajon Rondo.
Still needed 7 games to beat the Celtics.
When you said about how Lebron’s comp weren’t as big as the bad boys, Knicks, pacers, Heat etc. I feel like there were a couple teams that fit that in my opinion. Firstly you got The big three Celtics which were one of the reasons why LeBron decided to make a big three of his own in Miami. Also for his first stint in Cleveland you got the
Pistons who gave LeBron some problems but still Mj had more comp than LeBron...
Pistons werent the same after Ben Wallace and brown left
I think it was a mixture of both but mainly it was because of a weak conference
You forgot Portland , and Sacramento in the west
East So weak that lebron only made it once without a super team....and got swept.
East So weak that even with super teams he lost 3 out of 9 finals and 2 of those finals wins were very close.
East so weak that he got to the west and in his first season he never made the playoffs. While that same team with an injured Zion only playing less than a third of nba games probably would've made the playoffs.
East so weak Lebrons finals record looks like
1:swept
2:lost to Mavs in 6
3:beat the thunder
4:7 games and barely beat the Spurs
5:Largest blowout in NBA finals history at the time
6:lost in 6 to the Warriors
7: barely beat the warriors in 7 after JR smith took out their big man for game 6 & 7. And got Draymond suspended for game 5.
8: largest blowout in finals history at the time.
9: largest blowout in finals history so far...
Then goes to the west and cant make the playoffs. Come on son
Here's where the Lebron fans and haters get it wrong:
If the East was weak, 8 straight finals is less impressive (point for the haters), but 6 finals losses is more reasonable (point for the fans).
If Lebron was in the West, maybe he doesn't make 8 straight finals (point for the haters), but he also doens't lose to Toronto or whoever in the finals when he does get there (point for his fans)
At the end of the day the guy is a 3 time champ, 4x MVP, and has some incredible playoff games and series wins on his resume.
It is less impressive especially when you got a superteam
At the end of the day, he's a fraud
Counterpoint- was the West too weak or was Magic Johnson too dominant in the 80s?
The Showtime Lakers basically ran roughshod through a less-than-overpowering Western Conference.
Everyone knows the 80s west was weak, but Magic’s impact on that team was crazy, because before he got there, they were a 1st round exit, he gets there, the win the chip, next season he suffers an injury, they get eliminated in the 1st round. Even when Kareem was older, they still won a championship, and even had a finals appearance once he retired. He also has a Finals record above .500
Yung Mustard what about MJ making the playoffs with a 30-52 38-44 40-42 record while Lebron first two years missed with a 35-47 record and 42-40? Ofc MJ is gonna play a great team if he’s the 8th seed. I agree the east was weak but ultimately he played a superior western conference team in the finals. He played two dynasties and 2011 he choked. But that mavs team gets underrated and the team they beat were great. So what’s better if Lebron plays in a weak conference and gets to the finals a lot but plays a much harder finals competition or play in a harder western conference but doesn’t make the finals as much but is more likely to win and not have a losing record in the finals?
yes
How would lebron face 50 win teams in the first round when he’s usually the 1-2 seed playing the 7-8th seed? A 50 win 8th seed? Nonsense.
Actually during LeBrons career in the West there were 2 50 win 8th seed teams.
50 win 8th seed? 2010 Thunder 2008 Nuggets say hello