How to keep your boring loop endlessly spicy with Polymeters
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- [ANNOUNCEMENT: THE TECHNIQUE IN THIS VIDEO IS ACTUALLY CALLED POLYMETER, NOT POLYRHYTHM!
Watch this video to understand the difference: • POLYRHYTHMS vs POLYMETERS
Truthfully, I simply didn't know :) Forgive me. Will remake the video when I have time!]
Most explanations of polyrhythms and polymeters are pretty theoretical, so here we show you a super simple method to harness its power in Ableton Live. Turn a stale loop into something endlessly interesting using a touch of basic music theory.
We also do some critical listening to professional tracks to hear polyrhythms, including Wolfgang Voigt and KAS:ST, so you can use their techniques in your own music production in any DAW.
Find Oscar's 8-hour industrial techno tutorial here: courses.underdog.brussels/ 🖤
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Contents:
0:00 Intro
1:03 Example in Ableton Live
1:59 Definition of a Polyrhythm
4:34 3/8ths pattern
5:21 3/16ths pattern
5:45 5/16ths pattern
6:14 Using it with a synth
7:00 Examples by pro artists
7:22 Wolfgang Voigt - Studio One
9:53 KAS:ST - Hell on Earth + quick music theory analysis
12:26 Applying a polyrhythm bass to a students track
20:11 Wrapup and conclusion
21:29 Bootcamp promo video
At Underdog Electronic Music School we run online classrooms for all levels of music producers. We do "bootcamps" for beginners (no prior knowledge required!) and "deep dives" for intermediate producers. We are also available for private coaching and advice.
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Website: underdogmusicschool.com/
Contact: oscar@underdog.brussels
Instagram: @underdogmusicschool
The best example I can think of as a polyrhythm that occurs in nature is when you’re driving your car in the rain, listening to music on the radio and the windshield wipers are beating out a straightforward rhythm that is out of time with the song. It’s like a race, and your brain wants the two to synchronize, and when they do for a moment, it’s a bit of a climax.
There's a balance to be struck somewhere between "no poly-rhythms" and "you're making a Venetian Snares track"
Its kind of when you are stopped at a red light and the car in front of you has a blinker that blinks at different rate, but for 1 or 2 blinks it synchronizes to your blinker. Try it out.
Cool stuff.
Hahahah yes! Love this comparison.
Or the wipers on the old school busses. They were always just a little out of sync, but occasionally they would either both move either perfectly the same or perfectly opposite.
@@FriendofWigner sometimes the wipers on normal cars sync to the beat or just a little beat off the beat too hahaha
@@prod.kidmizu It's been a while, so I can't remember the cycle time of the wipers (which I didn't program anyways), but there is a set cycle time for turn/hazard lights in the US and Canada. I don't have access to the SAE standards anymore, but the FMVSS states that turn signals should be tested to 90 cycles per minute.
So if you are watching turn signals, I would assume they are all around 85-100 BPM. Double that if there is a turn lamp out.
This guy is a really good teacher, I find my stuff stale, but after watching these videos I feel refreshed and like I have new toys to play with.
Also I love playing with my toys
Randomly recommended by youtube... Now binge watching all the vids on this channel , f#cking awesome content
Same here.
same here :) what an amazing teacher
Y'all should find someone who doesn't say half the stuff wrong, tho, not even to replace him, but to complement.
I mean, maybe his advice is useful, but it's just loaded with misinformation.
same, great content
@@Lcrymlgy @
your definition of a Polyrythm is actually a Polymeter.
Polymeter: different number of beats, but the length of each beat is the same: 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1
Polyrythm: different number of beats, but the length of each phrase is the same: 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
1 2 31 2 3
Also it's not true to say that this makes it "endlessly" changing as he is saying here. We can actually see in this video that the first polymeter he is using repeats every 12 beats (3 bars) with the rim noise returning to the one on bar 12 and 15.
@@MrJvandal He says its endlessly listenable, of course it's not endlessly changing you doofus.
I mean, I dont think theyre dumping on him. They’re just pointing out that on technical levels what he is actually describing is this and that even though its colloquially acceptable to refer to it how he did. There are combinations of loops that would be mathematically infinite, whether thats palatable or desired or not
@@gazereaper facts
@@gazereaper He says the loop will be "... *endlessly refreshed* , because all the elements will be continually renew themselves compared to each other," at 00:50 . There's also no need to be rude. I would say a 3 bar loop is hardly endlessly refreshed... but it's just my opinion.
first ive listen to this technique was around 25 years ago in the detroit-uk-german-spanish industrial and hard techno scene, hundreds of records was done using this.. the tracks was so simple, rough and raw, at the same time so hypnotic and interesting that was almost like black magic, still the same from the early days now but it really...REALLY shines today, i love this technique especially in sub-bass and bass due to the better quality of sound of the tracks that are produced today, the cristaline-powerfull gear found at clubs, home and in anyone´s pocket... i remember to record techno sets with a bad radiocasete from the radio(static and a lot of hiss included) and play the cassette at friends party in a no so bad (but still bad) bigger radio-cassette and nobody complain about the sound quality because the "new" music was so awesome...taking nostalgia aside, now everything sounds and feels much better.
I was there - well said 👍
Thanks for the story man, I totally get what you mean.
any recommendations for that type of music?
@@11bmckee Awakenings 2015
I love your teaching style. Terminology may be occasionally loose or incorrect, but the techniques are demonstrated so clearly that I don't care. I would recommend these videos to my students with a caveat to learn the techniques and ignore the vocabulary. Having said that, If the vocabulary becomes more precise in the future, then I would recommend these videos as exemplary.
Roger that :) thanks for the kind words 👍
Yeah it's crazy how convoluted terminology can become. I recently learned that polyphony and paraphony do not mean what most people define them as, and I still don't know exactly how to define them!
@@mikeexits paraphony: several voices - one filter or envelope usually. Polyphony several voices with each a full signal path consisting of envelopes and often filters. Think of paraphony as "i have 8 voices, but the all go into the same one filter with 1 (!) Envelope for all of them.
"Don't use multiple polyrhythms"?
Kick+Snare - 4/4
Hats - 5/4
Percussion - 3/4
= works a treat! :)
Agreed! 2 is fairly limited. Depends on how much complexity one wants in their rhythms. I love to use many more, sometimes for some "vertical time music." The patterns of the polymetric rhythms themselves can be quite entrancing.
I'll try that one
Thank you for being a TEACHER!!! so many guys think that we are on their level and just rush through all the basics that actually help! You are very patient and captivate me with your style which makes me want to continue producing. Thank you for your efforts because some of us just learn at a different pace. Bless ❤
Polymeter - Polyrhythm i dont give a .... This guy just showed me why i sometimes can listen to a very scraped beat for days, and other scraped beats for only seconds. The example with Wolfgang Voigt is so inspirering. Thomas Brinkmanns early records was a huge thing for me, and now i know why.
One day at a mate's place he put on a lock groove track. We listened to it for a while and were entertained knowing that it was a lock groove, yet the mind plays tricks - some kind of auditory illusion where it appears to change over time. There might be some small variation with each repeat from the physical system of record + player, but I don't think enough to explain the effect. I hazard a guess it was more to do with swing or other less-mechanical timing within the loop.
@@spxl I follow you. You can hit a swing that dont reli on small ex hi hat variations and still being Da Bomb. But still its nice to laern these small variationtricks and sometimes it makes a differnce.
Thanks so much for this. I busk using a rc505 looper and recently added in recording live snippets which then play back under the main loop, but at a different length . You've just explained so clearly the reason these 2 different loops played together works. Love it. Now I can actively use the info you've shared to steer my street performances and make them better. Thanks again
little tip: add a delay and experiment to spice up the polyrhythm. works very well with percs, hats and synths ;)
good channel and tutorials dude! subscribed
Yes, nice tip, totally agreed! Rhythmical nuance & depth can make a simple pattern suddenly very interesting to listen to.
Yeah! You have to realize that dotted note delay is the most primitive polyrhythm: that's why we like it so much.
4.41 - is the drum pattern for Bela Lugosi's Dead. Yes, you *can* listen to it a long time.
Right on! 10 minutes of pur joy on the same rhythm. Add a lot of experimental delay and reverb effects to that rim shot and you get a pattern that is very alive.
Rory, you nailed that one. Had to check and found a very good Massive Attack cover version
great song and great observation
First CD single I ever bought :) (looks it up) Jeez, 1988... 33 years and it still hasn't got stale :)
Amazing. I have done this before on accident and never quite understood why those particular tracks didn't get boring to listen to, but this explains it very well. Thank you 👍
I really enjoyed this vid, very well explained, instantly made sense to me even though I don’t know anything about music theory. Made me think of a lot of the ambient house I used to listen too in the past, the slower groove used poly rhythms a lot I think, as that made them feel less static.
Nice vid.
Cutting it off early so that it can fit the bar is also a nice trick, esp. over 2 bars
Wow I love this. I love how you talk about our bodies/minds subconsciously understanding and feeling the beats. Really great stuff - liked and subbed! Excited to check out your other videos
Brian Eno made entire albums on this principle, as far back as the 1970s - complementary notes recurring on their own fixed orbits, slipping in and out of alignment with each other in interesting ways that never repeat exactly over the course of an hour or so. It's interesting stuff to experiment with :)
That was fascinating. I didn’t realise how such a simple technique could make such a difference
This is probably the best introduction to polyrhythm I've seen. Great! Thanks!!
Been producing for 8 years and found this video. Super helpful, will help me bring some variation into the genre that I produce
Thank you so much for this video! I’ve been familiar with polyrhythms but never really tried to make any. After watching this I went and made a kickass drum n bass track with a synth polyrhythms on top of the drums
Oscar thank you so much for all of your amazing videos. Your channel is an absolute goldmine, really appreciate you. It’s a crime that you don’t have more subscribers!
❤️😌
Thanks Oscar! So many techno songs I liked but I wasn't shure why. Now I understand; Polyrythms. Your tutorials are brilliant, keep it up!
Glad its helpful!
Best techno and EDM tutorials and guides on youtube imo
Amazing tutorials Oscar! I have been playing and producing electronic music with daws and synths for 10 years, and didn't paid that much attention to theory... trying to create spontaneously... Finding out this channel has really help me fill some gaps and improve in this spontaneity thing I was looking for!
Super cool 💛
Love all of your tutorials.simple&concise to understand.I'm always looking for decent tutorials,&some aren't good at explaining things clearly-so big thanks 👍
15:40 "the length doesn't really matter so much" I HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS!
haha all jokes aside, thank you so much for this video! Game-changing revelation ❤️
loool
You have to ask yourself, "Does it sound phat?"
Followed along with this tutorial whilst making a tune. Makes a hell of a difference. Thanks Oscar.
I gotta say Ive been watching vids on polymeter and your vid really hit on all cylinders for me. What a great explanation and demonstartion! Thank you, so much!!!
Easily the most useful UA-cam channel for production that I’ve found in years
I really appreciated your advice to not over clutter beats with too many polyrhythms. Liked & shared!
Awesome, thanks for the support!!
This is absolutely the clearest explanation of polyrhythms. You make it look so simple but I know I can do this. Thank you!
Oscar love it, when u said it’s when two beats diverge then converge and meet at a common place then repeat. The penny dropped.
🥰
Thank you so much for making this tutorial. You're a great teacher. Have a good weekend man
Cheers Brian :) take care!
Straight to the point, love your style of explaining. Can't wait to add poly rhythms into my production.
The track from KAS:ST is one of my favorite
thanks for the tuto much appreciate
I just tried out this technique. It is explained very well here. It will make it so much easier to add simple melodic elements in a way that is more contributive to the track now.
i love how u explain things i could listen for hours
Great video. Thank you. This has made me realise why I can listen to the Chemical Brothers over and over, and how they get such rhythmically interesting tracks.
Incredible video, as you mention at the start this information is difficult to find. You've changed my tracks forever, thank you.
Great video. Very clearly explained without any complicated jargon. Straight in there showing how to do this simply and in context with real life examples. Thank you.
Hello dear compatriote , I must say that your channel is really really good, I never came across your videos in years, I just regret it . I do electronic since the 80's purely with vst and AUs and I still continue to discover new tricks with videos like yours, therefore big thanks for you.
Been working on a track and this is just what it needs but I didn't know till now thankyou
simple explanation, multiple examples from real-world tracks, and even an application of the technique to an unfinished track... bravo!!!!!
Polymeters are not new to me, but I'd sure forgotten about them. Added one to a track I'm currently remixing, and boom. So much more interesting. Thank you for these amazing videos.
This channel is such a gem
Bro. Must have watched 50,000 videos and courses. Polymeter is what I was missing. Ur the man!
Thank you! Might actually finish a track finally lol
With every video I watch I get more impressed by you. You're great man.
Thanks mate - gonna use this right now! This was just what I needed for this track (it's literally open on my other screen). Glad your video popped up when it did. Serendipity.
Actual, useful info, on all your instructional videos simply explained. Well done!!!
This was great. Been looking at polyrythms and this has really helped how to achieve effective ones. Definitely less is more. Brilliant.
Yesssss, that's what I like to hear!
What's a rythm between friends, eh?
dude, I love your panels. So much more interesting than just blank.
I really love this concept, probably something a lot of us do naturally, but don't understand how to explain technically... I always tell people I look for the
" in-between sounds"
Thanks a lot love your videos, dude!
Yes I do this on my drum machine but never had a word for it.
I like how you incorporate psychology and talking about brain being bored and stuff
I had the Studio 1 records. I don’t remember my favorites exactly but probably blue and pink. Wolfgang made that series out of frustration of when minimal was getting boring in the industry. He used a sampler to really shape the sounds rather than the usual standard 303 through effects even though digital effects were getting really interesting in the mid 90s. By the way they pronounced it “Studio Ein”
Yo Oscar ! Just got your video recommended to me ! Don't know if you remember but we had a zoom chat a few months ago about softwares !
Shout out to you, I appreciate you and to all of you who are discovering his content, this guy is the nicest guy ever, definitely recommend
Duuuuude 🧡 great to hear from you!
Thanks for tutorial, I was felt that method on intuitive level, but now I see why its works ! Need to experiment with this in next tracks:)
ANNOUNCEMENT: THE TECHNIQUE IN THIS VIDEO IS ACTUALLY CALLED POLYMETER, NOT POLYRHYTHM!
Watch this video to understand the difference: ua-cam.com/video/htbRx2jgF-E/v-deo.html
Truthfully, I simply didn't know :) Forgive me. Will remake the video when I have time!
Find Oscar's video courses here: courses.underdog.brussels 🖤🖤🖤
Join the Underdog Discord channel: discord.gg/z5N9CTA 👾👾👾
Sign up to the mailing list here: tinyurl.com/yy92sx5u 💌💌💌
Pledge to the Patreon: www.patreon.com/underdogmusicschool 🌱🌱🌱
Pinnnn :D
Fantastic value from this video. So happy this was recommended !
Very good dive into the topic, great way to look at basic elements of song . While watching this realized there is no good workshop on syncopation topic, would be great to see you look in to this topic , can be really helpful to a lot of people out there )
The Korg Wavestate is FANTASTIC!!!!!
Thanks man!! Trying to beat writersblock, and learning new techniques always helps. ❤️
Thank you so much. This session helps me a lot, but i have to check it again on big speakers. I like how you explain the things with good examples. Thank you.
The studio one album is a must listen to anyone who writes music. A great lesson in less is more.
Once again, over the top lesson. Thanks to your student sharing. GREAT lesson Oscar. Thank you!!!
Thanks for posting these videos! They're super helpful and informative, especially for a relative newcomer to electronic music :)
quite interesting! you can make even more variation by repeating the polyrhythm before it ends.
he is a GEM! LEGEND, thank you for being such an amazing teacher! you are truly amazing!
Great video! I've been trying to work on using polyrhythm and other evolving changes to my clips, but I'm still working on how use it effectively. I liked how you used a student track to provide a working example. I think a lot of people mix polyrhythm with polymeter. It's in important distinction. I really like the effect of applying the polyrhythm as part of the sub-bass! I'm going to try that myself. Cheers!
Well full disclosure, the phenomenon I describe here is technically polymeter :) I genuinely didn't know at the time there was another word for it. Someday I will probably rerecord this video to correct that, but for now I think the info is still helpful so I leave it :)
This whole video was worth learning that shift+down will shift a note by an octave! How did I not know this
thank you man this opens up a new world for me
I'm hearing the Aladdin song right now, thanks for putting that in my head :D
Thank You My 3 year old walked away when i showed him a basic loop He was amazed how fast we made it
Thank you! very informative and well explained. Cant wait to try this out
Yeah it feels a bit like a superpower when you first try it :D but then after a while you figure out if & how it will permanently be part of your toolkit.
Really interesting content, now I understand why I like the Sleaford Mods so much!
wolfgang voigt is founder of kompakt records. he is a legend!
also known as GAS
Don't forget what he and his compagnons did for the underground movement beginning 90's! I can't speak for the music after that time, but the music I know would specify him at least close to legend. One of the big producers indeed!
I was looking for that comment :)
Kas:st videoclip is sick! Mostly the track itself. Thanks for the videos you make bro
Very informative and engaging, love this channel. Cheers mate.
Awesome vid! Beneficial and easy to understand. Thank you so much for making this one!
Great work with your videos, very clear and informative. Thank you :)
Thanks :) glad they're helpful!
That Profan was one of my first records which I've bought in 97-98.
You're the best out there ! Keep doing what u do 🙏❤️
didn’t expect this to be so informative, from the references to the theory, a rlly well put together lesson.
Thanks for the enouragement!
Yeah except the theory is wrong and glossed over. But I agree the advice is solid
Brilliant advice as always.
Great work, thanks!
Even your "Control+D"s are in rhythm
@@OscarUnderdog 😐
This channel is doubtless the best thing that ever happened to me.
Hahaha 🥰 big love
Very helpful tutorial. Thank you I am now more inspired.
The jam at 3:43 was good enough for me I could have nodded away to that for an hour haha
Thank you so much mate! Super clear!!! And I didn’t actually know Wolfgang-Voigt! Thank you for the suggestion!
I love this stuff! I never new how it's called and wasn't able to explain it to my friends producing music...
It's a pity this comes 20 years to late...
Thank you Oscar... great explanation, I'm considering your bootcamp moving forward. I wish our music teachers would teach kids like you do it. Many kids lose interest in music because they are teached to play what others composed 100 years ago. This may work well for a few extremely talented individuals but to many will walk away from the lessons or just be kept there with a lot of pressure from their parents ... time for change :-)
Heck yes indeed. Couldn't agree more. I sometimes imagine I'm explaining this stuff to a 12 year old kid who has no cultural baggage about this stuff, so it's like a blank canvas :)
Beautiful video. Thank you
I like your student’s sample. It morphs but the polyrhythm makes it better.
This is great. Voigt his Album is more like a Science project. But the old days (50-70s) had some awesome Synth science, art noise stuff going on
Great way to explain polyrhythms. Thank you.
Very simple explained , well done !
Question: are polyrhythms the same as euclidean rhythms ?
Hey Gery! Great to hear from you again :D The concepts are definitely related! And everything actually gets easier in dance music, if you assume that 1 of the rhythms you're working with is 4/4, the most basic time signature that most music is made in. Euclidian rhythms are when you divide time into X equal segments, and create patterns like that. You'll often end up with similar results to polyrhythms, as you'll find similar sweet spots I think. Most of my experience with Euclidian rhythms comes from using the Stoicheia in my modular setup.
But when it all gets complicated, remember: in the end we're just talking about patterns of 16th notes, nothing more abstract than that. No need to do too much maths, just draw out some loops on the 16th note grid & maybe try dancing to your own music to make sure the groove is alive and well :)
Wooow, thank you for the nice explanation! 👍🏼
I own all vinyls from the studio series....they are brilliant, like your videos
Wow, nice can't wait to try this thanks for the information.