this game is criminally underrated. The sprinting up to a enemy and grab his head while doing a 180 degree swing around him to break his neck was such a awesome move
Dude i kept thinking wow she looks so much like "The Major", even to some degree in her hand-to-hand combat style/technique, that iconic purple hair tho...makes me nastalgic all over. Lol, given the sci-fi nature of the games story, themes, atmosphere etc. Wouldnt surprise me if the characters developement or appearance rather was intentional an meant to serve as a gesture of appreciation, nod/tribute expressing the developers admiration, inspiration an influence from the aforementioned instant classic 1980's masterpiece, still to the day unrivaled in not only anime but science fiction furthermore film in general, we've seen many great additions to the genre primarily in fellow anime. live-action an/or american cinema far and away less frequent, (remember were the guys that put Micheal bay in charge of an age old classic series an uhg what an abysmal failure that was an continues to be, for many in the states thats what they consider or regard as science fiction sadly, an whats worse they "success of the Transformers franchise due only to prepubescent children watching it a multitude of times in theaters will unfortunatly more then likely lead to a trend in dumming down, nosensical, special effects showcases all filler no substance) this is why the world looks at the US an its ppl as very dumb an stupid w/below average intelligence. I DIGRESS, I'd suggest one most recent accomplishment of american sci-fi being the sequal to Blade Runner franchise which embarassing enough as it is I cant recall the actuall full title of said film atm it escapes me for some unknown reason Blade Runner 00/00/0000 lol. personally I thought it was excellent, very well done, especially considering the pressure fans must have put on the studio, production, cast, an Director first an foremost not to tarnish the rep an legacy of the original. A Scanner Darkly being another absolutely astonishing modern classic of sci-fi film, even tho it was originally shot live-action the fact that in "post" or whatever edititing process they rendered the film in its entirety with a type of cell shaded filter, (a very modest description of technique they used) watching some of the bonus features it was an extremly sophisticated albeit taxing, ardouos task however such efforts paid off in the end, having seen the finished product numerous times the effect is so fitting I cant imagine them shooting it any other way, that said idk if it counts as live action or otherwise...coincedentally A Scanner Darkly is based off of a book by the same name and the same Author Phillup K Dick of "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" the book by which Blade Runner is based for those possible select few remaining youngsters who dont know, an again my opinion P.K.D. is one of if not the most skilled and talented sci-fi author's of this generation. I really went off the rails there, my original point being as some skeptics might see the striking resemblence of the character as maybe plagiaristic in nature, I see it more as commemorative, I manor or way to memorialize, an Ode to the famously beloved character near an dear to us fans hearts Major Motoko Kusanagi. In a nutshell I would have to agree with your observation very strong resemblance, apolagies for carrying on at such length clearly I'm fairly passionate about the subject matter an had a distinctly nerd out kinda moment there, lol. Thanks for allowing me my tangent an plz at the same time try if you would to also forgive me for it, Peace.
This came out right before I started working on our Star Wars game Jedi Outcast and I was super impressed by it. I had started emailing one of their engineers (I don’t remember who) about their melee combat and how much I liked it. It definitely inspired the directional lightsaber melee combat I did in our Jedi games. You can see Oni’s influence (and Prince of Persia: Sands of Time) even more in Jedi Academy.
Thank you so much. I had Oni and enjoyed it a lot, and yes you had to get better and better to win each level. I remember surprising myself when I beat the final boss first time round. I actually got pumped up over it. Then of course, there was Jedi Academy. Wow. I still play it, believe it or not, and I love the lightsaber combat, so good. Thank you.
@@karlwolfe614 awesome, yeah I still hear regularly from people who play our Jedi games, mod them, run servers or use one of the modified versions of the engine and I try to help them if I can. Those two games were a passion project for me and I’m so thrilled that people have enjoyed them for so long. :)
One of the reasons I never got into fighting games is because they require you to break your goddamn fingers anytime you wanna execute a full combo. Y + X forward followed by B followed by A + Left Bumper but not too soon or else you won't catch em in the air and shizzle like that. Oni has got 2 buttons, your input is relating to movement. Your opponents has a full moveset as well, which makes them really fun to play around with when ya shapeshift into them after unlocking cheats at the end of the game. It's an intuitive combat system that is easy to get into as you don't need to remember a whole lot, the moves make sense. You're also not locked onto your targets in anyway so you freely get to aim your kicks and punches. We need more of these kinds of combat systems, especially nowadays when everything that isn't a fighting game simply gets turned into another boring soulslike.
“your input is related to movement” 👍 “the moves make sense” 👍 “not locked onto your targets” 👍 “everything… gets turned into another boring soulslike” 👍 Yup! Right there with you. I'm trying to build up courage to take on Sifu. I may be wrong about this, but the inputs don't appear as intuitive as Oni's were. I also hate games that require lock-on!
@@MediaKitGaming Oh I started Sifu recently, I got my butt kicked a lot but I always felt like there was something I could've done to prevent it. I finished the first level, enjoying it a lot so far. Be brave, I reckon you can make it! I also really liked Absolver, made by the same devs which is PvE, PvP and co-op. It's also quite unique in that it allows you to build your own moveset. Heavily suggest you check that out if you haven't already. Only downside is that the games PvE content is short, but with such a well designed combat system it's fun to come back to from time to time, just like with Oni!
Thanks for the encouragement. I do plan to return. I’m just not looking forward to training myself on a new combat system. Thanks for the Absolver tip.
Boring soulslike wtf! It's the best genre! I don't like Fighting games either because of the points you mentioned, which is why I love Smash Bros. It's like Oni: it's simple and has a lot of moves because of directional inputs My favorite Melee combat is Sekiros, it's different from the other From Software Games and a lot faster, if it's the combats speed you find 'boring'
@@Yorikoification I don't know about fighting games in other platforms, but I've played Shadow Fight on mobile and surprisingly the combat system is so similar to Oni game. I'm surprised so less games use this mechanic that is affected by our movement. I know this game called Final Fantasy Dissidia on PSP that executes different attacks based on our direction too but that's a whole another game.
It's crazy how impactful a dynamic combat system can be. We need to see games notice this and put effort into this area. We desperately need more Melee combat games and fluid parkour like movement gameplay mechanics
@@H0MY911 I'd really like to see Oni's combat system mixed with an Online RPG game. Imagine The Matrix Online + Oni's combat improved and diversified with different styles and weapons. Idk it's such a shame that we didn't ever have any other game like Oni, it's the only game of it's own kind, first and last
5:10 A little mentioned thing is that the stepping disarm, if you have no weapon, ends with the weapon in your hands and the animation as can be seen, automatically aims for a headshot, which you can do before Konoko steps off, for the ultimate in stylish executions!
I’m glad you posted this. It’s a hard game to find, hardly anyone knows about it. I spent a lot of time playing Oni when i was younger and thought the moves were SO hard but eventually i beat the game. The sounds and moves were incredibly nostalgic while watching your video. Thank you
This is one of those games that I had the demo of and played the hell out of but never actually got. Not sure if I never had the money or just never saw it in any of the few stores near my rural home that actually sold games.
Thanks for showcasing Oni! Bungie West worked inhumanly hard on it, and it's a unique game that deserves to be remembered. I do want to mention that there was a sort of New Game+, in that beating the game unlocked cheats. The most famous cheat is the one named at the end of the game's credits, "shapeshifter". Entering this on the Pause/Diary Screen lets you play as any of the other characters in the game, and many of them have a unique moveset that's as complete as Konoko's. As you said, Konoko's own advanced moves continue to be locked each time you progress through the game, unless you install the Anniversary Edition fan mod framework, which unlocks them all from the start (this was somewhat controversial, and we'll be making it optional in the future). Anyway, I'm impressed at how you recreated the Diary Screen pages for your video. That must have taken some work!
Thanks. I actually captured the Diary Screen pages directly from the game and cut them out in Photoshop. I played around with "shapeshifter" a little back in the day. I didn't occur to me to regard it as NG+ but it's a valid point. I did not know about the mod that unlocked all her moves from the start. I should install it.
I have happy memories from this game back when it was still defensible to be a "mac gamer". I was also at the Macworld Expo where it was demoed! Huge lines! I remember finishing the game but had no idea about the shapeshifter thing, damn!! Didn't you guys also hire a real architect for the level designs??
@@pmarreck Just to be clear, I didn't work on the game, but yeah, they hired two architects fresh out of school to design the levels. It sort of backfired when they designed overly realistic spaces and had to take out a lot of detail later :-) I'm jealous that you got to see Oni at Macworld. I was there at least one year that it was being shown, but never saw the booth for some reason. It kills me that I missed seeing their multiplayer feature before it was cut.
@@Iritscen it’s too bad they cut the multiplayer because it was hella fun! and that’s why there was such a line! Macworlds were magic, I miss them muchly
It's funny how the phrase "git gud" was popularised by Dark Souls fans....But the skill ceiling is so low in soulslikes it takes you just a few minutes to master the combat so the term "git gud" isn't even applicable there
@@Yorikoification Got Oni when it released. iirc, the gameplay has a lot of horizontal width but not a lot of vertical depth. Whereas souls-likes are the opposite, deep combat emergent from narrow move sets. Konoko has a lot of tools but only a few different types of bolt heads to use those tools on. The directional attacks are a novel idea, tho in practice, having to stop your trajectory to do any moves not linked to that trajectory is janky.
@@Yorikoification DS had far less inputs but had enough for some degree of skill expression. But it's the challenge and enemy mechanics that was built around it was what popularized the phrase. And there is actually a very high skill ceiling in sweaty PvP esp with metas like hardswapping. Oni has a very high degree of skill expression with the amount of inputs it has. Probably comparable to Black Desert that could take hundreds or thousands of hours to master. But the game isn't really difficult or lengthy so there was no real incentive to master the combat other than just to fck around and be stylish.
Great video! A fun thing worth mentioning about Oni is that you get access to a bunch of great cheats once you beat the game, one of those cheats lets you play as any character you come across in the game along with their ENTIRE moveset! You can play as brawlers and throw people around, you can play as the boss characters and use their signature moves etc. It adds further variety to an already complex and fun combat system.
If there was ANY one single game I would keep returning to, it would be this. The combat system is so satisfying that replaying individual levels became like an Arcade mode. For all the game's flaws, I must agree with you that I too have yet to find another game where a combat system would be so addictive.
I'm going to cry from the fact that i spent so much time looking for this game for years as i only remebred her funny hairstyle from my childhood...my man, you deserve a medal.
I honestly never expected anybody to mention this game ever again. For those of you that want to play it and get the best out of it, make sure you download AE (Anniversary Edition) which is a mod that allows you to download from a big database of mods, everything is super easy. You just select the mods, and you install them (some of them might conflict). There is a great range of mods, from retextures and reskins, to new levels and new characters, new AI system and so much more. I’ve had at least 200 hours of fun with this game, and i’ve always wished that somebody mentioned it ever again
The most amazing combat experience in game was playing multiplayer Oni at Macworld Expo. It was criminal that they removed it from game to get the game released in time. If they had kept it in, it would have changed gaming forever.
@ ok so from 20+ year memory. Just amazed at how it was like Tekken but full world, being able to sidestep a grapple. That at a certain distance going for the disarm was the way to go. There were some importantly frame locks that got you time to get out of being ganged up on. I only got to do a few rounds in line, but it was shocking to me how smooth it was. If they even kept it to lan only I would have been happy.
@@kargrym its a shame it was discarded because it probably would have popularized oni considerably more if it had online support. FFA matches or team brawlers. It would've been bungies other multiplayer gem. Oni has an incredible fighting system and I dont say that as someone copying what the next youtube ted talker thinks.
Shooting the screaming at long ranges and watching it seeking and killing enemies on its own, breaking the enemie's columns in a stealth way, doing a perfect combo... This game can keep you entertained for days, even weeks. I finished it several times and i have never been bored. It seems like every re-run is somehow different, it's insanely enjoyable. AND THE COMMUNITY IS STILL ALIVE AND MODDING THE GAME!
I love this game. Its took the fighting of a great 2d side scrolling fighting game, like double dragon or SoR, figured out how to do it in 3d and added guns. And I loved the anime style.
So happy we finally have Sifu as a great contender in the melee combat side for third person games. Hoping we get to see more like Sifu and Oni in the future.
I don't consider games like them as Third Person combat. They're more of automated second person combat. They do not contain the freedom of Third Person movement during combat, it locks into the enemy and you just press necessary buttons in the correct timings.
@@ahlatagaci2018Spine from Nekki has some potential. Time will tell but little bits of gameplay that ARE out there show it to be a gun fu sifu type game.
@@PaRadaRada yeah. When it was first announced, I remember it was supposed to be something like action 5v5 Multiplayer PvP and PvE game with third-person camera combat. Then it turned out to be another average game. Honestly I'm very tired of pressing few buttons and watching Kung Fu animations forever or doing the same thing again and again or doing things that feel really fake. A real combat with direct and true actions would be infinitely replayable and fun, + and that is exactly why Shadow Fight 2 is really loved for it's combat. So I expected Nekki to surprise us with some unique gameplay again. Edit: Added sentence +
I honestly liked Absolver more than what little I've gotten to play Sifu (between rent and bills, being able to afford a new game is a rare thing and deciding which one to get is a heavy choice), but still a really fun one regardless.
"Happy Back-breaking!" lol Man that kick is dirty. These combat mechanics look amazing! Never looked into the game although I came across it once or twice. Thanks for reviewing it! Really interesting.
I'm late, but one thing I wish you'd mentioned is that there's an amazing cheat code that lets you play as _any_ combatant that's showing up in the level. From the pause menu (F1) you just had to type in shapeshifter and then F8 would let you cycle through the enemies. Oni might not have a new game plus, which is a shame for sure, but replaying the game while trying out different enemies is almost infinte fun. They all had their very own unique move set and some almost as extensive as Konoko's. You can even play as the bosses! Mukade - the cyber ninja - has some of the coolest moves and Barabas is such a powerhouse it's ridiculous. Other than that cool little review :) I loved Oni and still do. This really needed a remake or a sequel. Even the guns were pretty damn cool and creative, even though you wouldn't be using them all that much
I adore this game and people that criticize it never seem to bring up the amazing gameplay. They just whine about the weapons being underpowered, not realizing that this is to encourage the use of hand to hand combat. Many have also criticized the graphics for not having complex and detailed environments, again, not realizing the gameplay benefits of not having cluttered environments that otherwise could cause the player to get snagged on something at every turn with little room to breath that can become a very frustrating experience. I know this video also briefly pointed out the dated graphics, but in a time when playing old games is the norm, this "problem" is now irrelevant.
yup and the stealth mechanics you have insta takedowns in the back for heaven's sake the weapons themselves have their uses (yo guys those are the dude's that gave you Halo so it is a given) and can help you turn the tide in battle if you know when to use them! They are nicely worked into the hand to hand combat disarming baddies and taking out them with their own guns never gets old! And the environments! You can use them to your advantage as well lure your enemies towards an upper floor and then throw them down or dodge as they try to hit you and fall.
Wasn't the barren levels pretty standard for the time? I know their more famous title relied on this too. For all the touted open environments in Halo's marketing, it put you through a lot of shitty indoor levels. The archives (I think that was the name?) were just grey room with blocks in it, a hallway, the same room with the blocks rearanged, rinse repeat. When the campaign made me go through that same level backwards, I returned it to the store. (I had no internet on my game computer so I couldn't do multiplayer. )
What's insane is that I just found my dad's old ps2 along with THIS game TODAY while trying to find the ps3, while not the outcome I expected I'm definitely not disappointed
Haha. Oni was a great game and never forget its multi ending discovered accidentally :) . So I was frustrated to fight again the final boss. It was a huge monster, really strong and I went back to the earlier level to learn to be better before facing him again. I ended up done the level where you hunt down the Police chief but this time I didn't shoot him, just dropped my gun and went out, though the game will not be progressing but wanted to load back the save to practice jumping anyway, but it did and oh well I paid no attention... until the end when I prepared for the boss final transformation and its... it's not happened. IT was totally different. The police chief arrived with his men's and joined me to fight, the big baddy had no chance to turn into the monster, he brought more henchmen in but that was something I easily could handle :D and the feeling was so intense I saw the story actually turned into this. I loved it and this game always remain in my memories :)
This game was so versatile and unique for its time, with (light) parkour elements, great (as you mentioned) battle system, interesting boss fights, creative levels (dream level for instance) and ending depending on a moral choice! Still in 2021 I will gladly replay the final brawl between the TCTF forces and Muro's gang. Imagine a game where friendly npcs are actually helping and fighting instead of standing around like furniture *cough cough* ASSASINSCREEDVALHALLA *cough*
I hated the dream level for 2 reasons. 1. It started with the world's longest unskippable cutscene. 2. It was freaking hard! You had to go through Muro and 2 cloaked ninjas before getting any hypos. And the rest of it wasn't a cakewalk. Completing the dream level, I'd be exhausted and would have to take a time out.
I think one of this game's greatest achievements is how intuitive its combat system ends up feeling. Even back in the day around its release - with no way to look anything up and without the ability to read English - I managed to figure out just about all of these moves and combos. Still have no idea how I stumbled across it, probably some yard sale or something, but I absolutely love this game and I always wished there was more of it.
Finished this game at least 5 times, never gets boring. You can even mod the hell out of it if you'd like. I also really love the setting and soundtrack. Story isn't all that bad either imo
I bought this game on a whim when i was a kid.. Still one of my favorites ever every once in a while i get an urge to go back and play thru. Wish they had finished oni 2
I remember watching my friend play this back when I was 10 years old, he had a new PC and this was his game of the moment. What I can't quite believe is how good it looks for something from 2001. Super clean, stylish, crisp visuals that stand up even now. Pretty amazing!
Rising Fury and Devil Spin Kick were those types of moves that, if you were alone trying to practice, you could do them over and over again, but once combat started it felt impossible to pull them off in the heat of battle. Fantastic game for the time, though, and I played the hell out of it. Thanks for the trip down memory lane!
@@s.sradon9782 wow nope I never tried it. I watched some videos and it looks great! Too bad is not available on the PS5. I may give it a shot emulating it on PC 😁
So you haven't played any From titles, Monster hunter titles, Dragons dogma 1/2, Dark Messiah, DMC titles, MGR Revengence. Not to take away from Oni, but there are plenty of "modern" games that specialize in exceptional melee combat
I am definitely gonna pick this up and play, but I'm seeing a lack of mentioning DMC as an entire series as well as MGR:R, which is the one metal gear game with melee combat.
@@brupts7297 But are these not more like the Batman games? Here it seems that every input counts and the emphasis is not on the elaborate combo but each small move. And unlike many others, only that MGR:R seems to take the direction of the attack into account!
@@otto8684 Every input counted in Prince of Persia Warrior within. Yes, there were slow mo finishing moves, but they were quick and only required one input and would only trigger on enemies that were almost dead. The same input would do a basic attack on an enemy that still had some health left.
A key component of Oni as a whole is its combat system. I've just started playing/streaming this game again and I can safely say that the hand-to-hand aspect is way ahead of its time. Totally agree with your thoughts here. This title honestly deserves way more recognition than it ever got!
You forgot to mention that You can shapeshift into your opponents and You will have their moves! I still love this game and yes - community made a multiplayer for it.
@@dukkemonterier3429 Some years ago, i found a mod or some kind of add on for oni that give a simple fighting room and you can choose character you want to play. Some people say it is the unfinish suppose to be multiplayer part of the game. I dont remember the detail, but it is something like that if i'm not mistaken.
This game reminds me a lot of the Jedi Knight series. Jedi Academy in particular has direction-influenced attacks, and each of the lightsaber disciplines (there were at least 5 from what I remember) had their own unique attacks for those directions. You also had some ridiculously advanced traversal techniques like wall runs, vaulting boost jumps, you could even flip off of opponents if they were in front and behind you!
One of my favourite childhood games. Absolutely loved the combat. Always wondered if there were any other games with better combat. I guess now I know the answer.
Some respondents have suggested Seeping Dogs. There's a fair argument to be made there and I'll be dedicating a future video to the combat in that game.
You might be interested to know there are a couple other crouching moves. If you tap crouch and punch at the same time, she does a two-fister that knocks down enemies. If you hold crouch, forward and then punch, she does a sweep with her fist that also knocks them down. Crouch and kick simultaneously does a slightly quicker variant of the usual crouch, and then kick sweep.
I appreciate that. I don't think I knew about the double fist punch. The others moves I knew, but used them so seldomly that I forgot to include them. I also forgot to include kicks and punches while she's in the air. That's just a glaring oversight. This game makes it hard to catalog ALL fighting moves - and that's what I loved about it.
I played this game and I remember liking it a lot, though I don't remember finishing it, nor the immense amount of melee combos you mentioned in your video. On the same theme, great melee system: Jedi Academy had a great saber fighting with directional swings and cut combos. I don't talk about the specials (forward lunge, backflip swing and DFA and some others), but chained normal swings, that, even in strong / slow mode could be made a devastating combo. Not to mention the movement tricks, like bunny hopping, when you could fly on an opponent, slicing in him/her, if you timed your swing correctly. 90's and early 2000's, what a time to be a gamer. :) Great video on the topic, I really appreciate deep dives like this.
This is one of the games my brother and I got at a pawn shop with my dad back in the early 2000s. It stuck with me all these years but I've never met anyone else who has played it! It was just so cool and the cheats were a lot of fun.
I have the NCP combats are pretty good too. Get yourselves the Anniversary Edition and you can unlock (by command code) other NPC and bosses. Fighting as Mukade is awesome, he was the best fighter.
Dunno if these would fit your criteria or not but....What about character action games like Devil May Cry 5, Bayonetta 2 and Nier Automata? These are not PURELY melee as they have long range options...
Their melee combat(No-weapons/hand-to-hand) is nowhere near Oni's godlike prowess. But aside from the melee part, the weapon mastery of DMC is out of this world
Running Lariat, I did this all the entire game with almost every enemy that was possibile on xD Oh god, how I loaved this game, it was just way a head of it's time, wish it would be re-released for steam or at least for gog. ♥ :3 Besides that game God Hand from Clover Studios has probably one of the best brawler and melee mechanics (but it painfully hard and non-forgiving).
I was going to mention God Hand... it's difficult but a mediocre player should be capable of getting through it. It only gets really difficult if you are a little too proficient.
I dearly loved the Scream Cannon, which I nicknamed the Dream Gun. Shooting out that slow canister to release a dream spirit on an unwitting opponent was good creepy fun.
Oni has a lot unigue combat styles and one best combat gameplay there is almost no game you can compare it with, but with God Hand you have more similar games that can be compare with and Oni is 2001 and still to this day gameplay feels great and doesnt feel that much outdated. God Hand is also great game but i find Oni overall better and one best games that i ever play
Great video, I just recently heard about this game, and was looking for a good one that discussed the combat system itself, and this video was right on the money.
Ah Sweet memories!! One of the earliest games I played and one of the best too. very very underrated. Bungie do something with it for the new era of gameplay!!!
Legit one of my favorite games of all time. Glad I still have my copy on Ps2. Love how different it is to all of Rockstar's other games. It always is something I bring up to newer gamers lol.
@@KindredDoomBot rockstar only ported the game from pc to ps2 but they dont did anything gameplaywise or storywise. Was all by bungie west. You can read that ;)
Oni, Evil Islands, Grandia 2 and No One Lives Forever were one of my favourites back then. All came out roughly at the same time and were extremely fun. I have no idea how many times I've replayed them.
Evil Islands? Give "Xanadu Next" a try, you will love it. Though I greatly suggest using a cheat engine to bypass the bs dungeon keys requirement which kills pacing and requires grinding
Agreed about the combat system. I thought Enter the Matrix gave it the old college try with its combat as well in ways similar to Oni like directional attacks, unique disarms, and throws, etc.,
Best melee combat ever? How about Nioh 1&2 on PS4, and Ninja Gaiden 2004 on the original Xbox? Those games have the best 3D melee combat I’ve ever experienced, by a country mile.
@@MILDMONSTER1234ninja Gaiden is cool and all, but it's to easy to just spam flying swallow and Ynazuma drop. Also some combos have the same button pressing but different timing making some combos really hard to consistently pulling off instead of repeating the same starting combo because the inputs read way to fast
dunno why this vid popped out in my feed, but thank God it did. I played this game obsessively back in the day, snapping dude's backs was my favorite move lol. for a moment you brought me back to the times when I was a happy and clueless kid, thank you :)
I'm always happy when someone gives Oni some attention but at 0:28 when he says Batman in the Arkham games involves mashing the one attack button repeatedly he severely undercuts his credibility. If you try to get through those game's mid to late game fights just mashing the attack button and you will fail.
that combat feels really reminiscent of sifu, which adds that same kind of directional input combo system, but also includes way more defensive options with 4 different dodge techniques and a block/parry system
I liked Sleeping Dogs, but couldn't get into Remember Me. I felt more like making suggestions, rather than controlling the main character :) Maybe I'll give it another try. Some day.
Sleeping Dogs is hands down the best combat in a GTA-like game. Best part are environmental interactions, it's like playing a Hong Kong movie, you stuff people into dumpsters, break aquariums with their heads, and throw them into spinning fans.
god hand, with its many options from your move list or situationally from dodges and enemy states, and the melee options you can get in resident evil 4 remake mercenaries mode - these are both games with amazing feeling melee combat
"Batman... pushing the one attack button repeatedly" Thugs with a shield or electric stick: "I'm about to end this man's whole carreer". I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but come on, it's not just that.
Yeah, it's lame when people reduce the Arkham combat system like that. Spamming attack or counter only works at the very start of the game. One guy with a shield or some other weapon and it's not like that anymore, and halfway through the game you start facing tons of dudes with varying weapons. The games also get much better on Knightmare difficulty where it doesn't show the counter icons, you have to actually pay attention to each enemy in order to counter.
@@CidGuerreiro1234 Only tried Arkham games recently as they collected dust in my steam backlog, and I guess people who critique them are just upset about popular things, as many games tried to copy them soon. But they're based on directions, zoning and managing multi-enemy fights, a similar combat system in an older, underrated game is Jet Li: Rise of Honor, you flip analog stick to hit someone exactly where it points with a lot of unique moves depending on direction.
Oh man what a nostalgia! I remember one of the cool stuff in the game is a cheat code (which the game would only let you use if you have already beaten it), that lets you play as any character that appears in the level, and every one of them has his/her own unique move set! some of them were pretty rich, a masterpiece of a game!
It's been 20 years now & I've *STILL* never come across a game with such superior, hardcore, badass, technical & satisfying Melee combat nor have has anyone created a 2nd part to this Godlike game..... fucking sadge!😔
I can suggested another game with satisfying combat. Matrix path of neo. There is slow-mo system on button, cool attacks that can for example leave physical impact on the world(Crushed walls, furniture, ground.). You unlock additional combos and grab attacks during the game. Also attacks will change on some points in the story(After neo beats agent first time and Become NEO). Grab attacks are varied: you chain multiple people in one grab and Neo will attack them, throw people in specific direction(Destroying bookshelves and other things is cool), you can do nothing and he will just hard kick away, or you can do left click dozen attacks on opponent body right click again and kick him in the face or press space to grab him and lift to ceiling like neo vs agent Smith on subway and then spin him around or just land with your boots on opponent face or another combo with mouse. You have guns and Max Payne slow-mo. You can run on walls and shoot on people,iconic dodge bullets or stopping them and throw them back. And of course different melee weapons with their own move set attacks and grabs. Chaining multiple people with weapon is possible too. Last boss fight is amazingly interactive. Depends on location and attacks you can slam boss on the floor and go fight there or you can throw him through wall to continue flying fight. Of course boss can slam you too and fight will continue floor below. I recommend playing on highest difficulty but for that you need to beat prologue enemies and boss. Depends on how well you do in the fight difficulty can be changed.
This game was revolutionary thanks for presenting it My suggestions for games that melee was impressive as heck : Tales of Berseria, Devil May Cry, Nioh, Wonderful 101, and God Hand
I forgot about Oni. It's great to see games that I really enjoyed (massive fun factor) getting recognition. Sometimes we need to look backwards for inspiration and greatness.
Not really a red face, more of a confused one because it's clear the creator is not aware of the Character Action Genre so can't really blame him. Oni is something I also consider a classic but no way does it have the best melee combat system ever, heck if by melee to you mean just pure hands then God Hand has Oni beat.
Oni was cute and all, but move variety does not a complex system make. How many different skills is the game testing in the player, do they overlap, is it a hard and fast test or is it a series of independent systems that interact freely like an immersive sim, what choices is the player forced to make; these are all things that describe depth. The fact that the most there is to say about Oni is just reading its move list speaks volumes. It's like Sleeping Dogs: a pretty coat of paint, deep as the page it's painted on.
You said it yourself in the comment, but more moves actually make the game more complex... just not necessarily deeper. Depth is about the number of meaningful results that can arise from a given set of options. Complexity is about the number of options that can be used to achieve a given result. Creating depth and complexity from a reduced set of options is what's known as "elegance" in design. So the question for Oni is: why would you use 40 different moves to beat a level instead of just 4? There are actually simple ways to encourage movement variety, like keeping a "flow state" that makes you stronger-though I also agree that when well done, a system like the one shown in Oni can be more fun and engaging; if you can't attack thoughtlessly, you still have to learn the patterns, and then like in a tony hawk game, it can be fun to use different movements just for how satisfying it is (sure, THPS games can actually take variety into account for combo scores, but you just have the natural drive to keep combos interesting). Too much "elegance" can make the game too abstract too; having choices can also serve to add "color" to systems, and that's not a minor point to ignore either. Anyway, I think that games like Oni at least try to make something interesting, unlike 95% of the games nowadays that have really boring or negligently unambitious systems.
@@tinne26 These are really nice thoughts, but believe it or not "number of meaningful results" can actually just be another form of complexity without added depth unless you pair it with layering. Take, for example, a combat system meant to handle rooms full of large numbers of enemies. You are given a large variety of attacks, each powered by a different element. Each enemy in the room can only be damaged by one specific element. If you have a dozen different kinds of enemies here and a dozen different kinds of attacks, then when you plow an attack into the group you can have one of a dozen different outcomes as each attack will only meaningfully harm an enemy that none of your other attacks will. This large variety of outcomes does not add much depth though. But now add a layer that demands attention besides what enemy takes what damage type, like say populate the room with areas that you must keep enemies out of in order to power yourself up, and enemy AI that congregates away from where you're attacking. Now you must simultaneously manage what technique you're choosing with where you press your offense in order to shape the battle and maintain your advantage. This is not revolutionarily deep, but it's already leagues deeper than needing to type-match 12 elements to 12 enemy varieties. Independent systems that are operating at the same time in a game scenario and must all be kept in mind, there's depth. Examples of independent systems that are *actually* used in modern game design include positioning (not letting checkmate scenarios evolve around you, like getting backed to a cliff), spacing (make them whiff while also creating your ideal range when on offense), timing tests, reaction tests, type matching, or gambling (intelligently managing risk and reward for actions whose outcomes are never guaranteed). All choices and actions will end up affecting more than one layer, making them all so much more important and impactful and giving the player so much more to master. Another great way to provide depth is to add asymmetrical value to the options in any one layer. This is especially good in human to human interactions. If an option is high risk low reward, then players may rarely bother being ready to counter it over other scarier options. This in turns *lowers* the risk by making it more likely to go through. That's Tekken baby! Also, "flow state" is not the smooth use of a variety of techniques. Flow state is the state of concentration incited by a task that is just challenging enough to require focus, while expressing skills that the performer has a comfortable mastery over. It's the state that comes from performing something that sits at the border of something you've practiced a lot and something that is above your skill level, and is exemplified by the feeling of performing without needing to interact with the discursive part of your consciousness.
And we actually have a ton of modern games that provide systems like this, there's no point in being pessimistic and falling into the trap of thinking "everything is bad and shallow these days". Games like Nioh 2, Heat Signature, Nine Sols, Armored Core 6, Tekken 8, Hades 2, Monster Hunter World, Ultrakill, Elden Ring, Street Fighter 6, Streets of Rage 4, River City Girls 2, Horizon Forbidden West, Returnal, 2XKO, Windjammers 2, Inscryption, Balatro, En Garde, Unworthy, Salt and Sanctuary, Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, Dragon's Dogma 2, Lies of P, and Remnant 2 have all been released in the last generation and all feature deep interlocking systems. We're in a golden age of gaming and innovation. Just as long as you don't limit yourself to buying only the games with the big marketing budgets.
@@TheJakeJackson you got some thick rose colored glasses if you think we're in a golden age of gaming. I like your taste big time from that list you dropped, but it ain't a big list. Games have gotten incredibly good to look at but variety and freshness has gotten stifled by commerce, it isn't a game industry specific thing either; it's across the board with what is supposed to be artistic media for whatever reason. Just think about the ps2/xbox/gamecube era (unrionically oni comes out of that era) and the density of novel projects (I'm not gonna try to make a list, that would be a ludicrous task; you can think back and look one up).
A very good game when it comes to mechanics and gameplay, but it felt unfinished, the interiors lacked details and the world felt empty, I liked it a lot but something about it felt really off.
you just made me remember a lot of my childhood evenings trying to play this game when i did not knew english and never finish it. i guess is time to finally completing it.
Disgustingly underrated game. I think the difficulty was one of the strengths of this game. Deaths never felt unfair(except for falling off the rooftops :P) and once you got the hang of the melee combat, memorized the pickup's locations, it was still challenging but insanely fun. I'd also mention that the enemy A.I. at the time, how they fought made it replayable. Actually that A.I. is more clever than the ones many games have today **looking at SW:Outlaws** Unfortunately It was a bit of a challenge to run it on modern hardware, but at least there are some unofficial patches for it to run in higher resolution.
You say that "no game matched Oni's potential" and how you'd like if "other games provided even a tenth" of what it had to offer. I'm honestly both surprised and shocked that you haven't heard of a franchise called Devil May Cry. Absolutely give DMC 3, 4 and 5 a go (no need to play 1 and 2 as the story in those is irrelevant and combat is not developed) and if you still need more after that, there's also a reboot. Oh and, cool video btw :)
Regarding potential, the video is talking about what the game manages to do with just a few buttons. Oni has punch, kick, jump and crouch - there are no 'different styles' or unique melee weapons. It manages to fit in more than 16 directional attacks + combos and finishers with only two attack buttons. There is no need to go into a menu or press a third or fourth button to switch between move sets.
This is from a fighting game fan, but you can't really compare the two, in Oni you get a punch button and a kick button but if you pay attention most of the attacks and combos are mostly manual, DMC's are mostly auto combos, no input directions to change the strings and you get a launcher that converts a ground combo to an air combo but the combo system itself is very basic the only semblence of the depth you get in DMC comes from switching weapons and combining with styles, the famous "Trick sword Trick Sword gun Trick Sword" it may look extremely tough on the fingers and it is... But you're using cancels to cancel out of mostly auto combos and animations, no manuals there. One advice check out the Gundam versus series. Watch how a simple combat system can turn auto-combos into manual combos.
@@raptrosthe way you describe the dmc combat it sounds like you're only talking about Dante. I think Nero's playstyle is more comparable to Oni's combat. In dmc4 he only has 2 melee weapons and one range. Most of his attacks needs motion inputs also his revving mechanics were you have to time it to get a stronger attack
When I was in high school I worked at a Laser Tag place. One night a game developer rented the facility out to hold a game release party. I didnt work the event, bit I hung out and chatted with some devs for the first hour of the event. They were very chill. Come to find out, the game being released was Oni.
@ I’m too old to be a lil bro, dude. Don’t flatter me my back hurts. I mean do you want your opinion challenged cause you’re allowed to think Oni is better. If you want me to I’ll throw some shit out there. You have longevity. Oni has one game while DMC has seven entries. Five mainline games, one better than you’d think but still not great reboot, and an okay mobile game. When DMC5 came out it was a critical and financial success. There’s a Netflix series based on DMC about to drop and it’s headed up by the guy who did Castlevania. Do you mean mechanically? Cause Oni blows DMC2 out of the water mechanically and I won’t argue otherwise but DMC2 is also notoriously hated for being a boring and uninspired sludge. That said the cool things Oni does with its directional combat is improved upon ten fold in each DMC game (again except for 2 because why hire people to actually make your game? Seriously that dev cycle was a nightmare). Combo strings based on stick input, delays, style and weapon switching…Once you unlock a move or a weapon you have it period and can use it when replaying levels. I mean none of this matters. I played Oni as a kid. It was one of the few PS2 games I actually owned instead of rented. Sadly it got left behind and largely forgotten but DMC is going as strong as a character action series can. I’d love to see someone take another crack at it with modern controls and QoL. Now I am super old and I have to get up early so I can count my new face wrinkles. Peace my man.
Played DMC 3SE, 4 & 5 for 100s of hours each as well as Oni around 20 years ago and then once every couple of years. No game has ever had the *MELEE COMBAT* mastered as good as Oni did. When it comes to weapon Mastery, Trickster(using Weapons), etc; DMC is unbeatable; maybe God of War comes a bit close and other games like Prince of Persia, etc but NONE comes close to Oni's Melee combat mechanics; not even close
@@maddyx3711 How is it even not close? In fact, DMC far surpasses the complex melee combat mechanics of any games you have mentioned. Jesus the fact that you even mentioned God Of War is just laughable considering God Of War's combat mechanics are very simplistic compared to DMC
He made exception for games focused on melee, so that excludes most of Capcom and KOEI games already. Obviously Nioh would have better combat than a game where you shoot guns.
this game is criminally underrated.
The sprinting up to a enemy and grab his head while doing a 180 degree swing around him to break his neck was such a awesome move
it is unironically the best game from rockstar games imo
Not very consistent with laws of physics, but yes, pretty cool.
@@TakehisaYuji Rockstar? wtf did they have to do with it? It was Bungie.
@@weatheranddarkness google it
Saw the move as I was reading your comment. Lol. You sir, are a walking W! 👍🏿
Best Ghost in the Shell game that wasn't even really a Ghost in the Shell game...
Dude i kept thinking wow she looks so much like "The Major", even to some degree in her hand-to-hand combat style/technique, that iconic purple hair tho...makes me nastalgic all over. Lol, given the sci-fi nature of the games story, themes, atmosphere etc. Wouldnt surprise me if the characters developement or appearance rather was intentional an meant to serve as a gesture of appreciation, nod/tribute expressing the developers admiration, inspiration an influence from the aforementioned instant classic 1980's masterpiece, still to the day unrivaled in not only anime but science fiction furthermore film in general, we've seen many great additions to the genre primarily in fellow anime. live-action an/or american cinema far and away less frequent, (remember were the guys that put Micheal bay in charge of an age old classic series an uhg what an abysmal failure that was an continues to be, for many in the states thats what they consider or regard as science fiction sadly, an whats worse they "success of the Transformers franchise due only to prepubescent children watching it a multitude of times in theaters will unfortunatly more then likely lead to a trend in dumming down, nosensical, special effects showcases all filler no substance) this is why the world looks at the US an its ppl as very dumb an stupid w/below average intelligence. I DIGRESS, I'd suggest one most recent accomplishment of american sci-fi being the sequal to Blade Runner franchise which embarassing enough as it is I cant recall the actuall full title of said film atm it escapes me for some unknown reason Blade Runner 00/00/0000 lol. personally I thought it was excellent, very well done, especially considering the pressure fans must have put on the studio, production, cast, an Director first an foremost not to tarnish the rep an legacy of the original. A Scanner Darkly being another absolutely astonishing modern classic of sci-fi film, even tho it was originally shot live-action the fact that in "post" or whatever edititing process they rendered the film in its entirety with a type of cell shaded filter, (a very modest description of technique they used) watching some of the bonus features it was an extremly sophisticated albeit taxing, ardouos task however such efforts paid off in the end, having seen the finished product numerous times the effect is so fitting I cant imagine them shooting it any other way, that said idk if it counts as live action or otherwise...coincedentally A Scanner Darkly is based off of a book by the same name and the same Author Phillup K Dick of "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" the book by which Blade Runner is based for those possible select few remaining youngsters who dont know, an again my opinion P.K.D. is one of if not the most skilled and talented sci-fi author's of this generation. I really went off the rails there, my original point being as some skeptics might see the striking resemblence of the character as maybe plagiaristic in nature, I see it more as commemorative, I manor or way to memorialize, an Ode to the famously beloved character near an dear to us fans hearts Major Motoko Kusanagi. In a nutshell I would have to agree with your observation very strong resemblance, apolagies for carrying on at such length clearly I'm fairly passionate about the subject matter an had a distinctly nerd out kinda moment there, lol. Thanks for allowing me my tangent an plz at the same time try if you would to also forgive me for it, Peace.
This
You clearly haven't played two out of the three Ghost in the Shell games that were released.
Motoko at home:
@@NintendanGX Which ones? I'm curious now.
This came out right before I started working on our Star Wars game Jedi Outcast and I was super impressed by it. I had started emailing one of their engineers (I don’t remember who) about their melee combat and how much I liked it. It definitely inspired the directional lightsaber melee combat I did in our Jedi games. You can see Oni’s influence (and Prince of Persia: Sands of Time) even more in Jedi Academy.
Jedi outcast has excellent combat. Thank you for your contribtion!
Yeah, I instantly recalled the directional attacks in Academy. Great job!
I loved jedi outcast! I played the demo for 2 over and over again
Thank you so much. I had Oni and enjoyed it a lot, and yes you had to get better and better to win each level. I remember surprising myself when I beat the final boss first time round. I actually got pumped up over it.
Then of course, there was Jedi Academy. Wow. I still play it, believe it or not, and I love the lightsaber combat, so good. Thank you.
@@karlwolfe614 awesome, yeah I still hear regularly from people who play our Jedi games, mod them, run servers or use one of the modified versions of the engine and I try to help them if I can. Those two games were a passion project for me and I’m so thrilled that people have enjoyed them for so long. :)
One of the reasons I never got into fighting games is because they require you to break your goddamn fingers anytime you wanna execute a full combo. Y + X forward followed by B followed by A + Left Bumper but not too soon or else you won't catch em in the air and shizzle like that.
Oni has got 2 buttons, your input is relating to movement. Your opponents has a full moveset as well, which makes them really fun to play around with when ya shapeshift into them after unlocking cheats at the end of the game.
It's an intuitive combat system that is easy to get into as you don't need to remember a whole lot, the moves make sense. You're also not locked onto your targets in anyway so you freely get to aim your kicks and punches. We need more of these kinds of combat systems, especially nowadays when everything that isn't a fighting game simply gets turned into another boring soulslike.
“your input is related to movement” 👍
“the moves make sense” 👍
“not locked onto your targets” 👍
“everything… gets turned into another boring soulslike” 👍
Yup! Right there with you. I'm trying to build up courage to take on Sifu. I may be wrong about this, but the inputs don't appear as intuitive as Oni's were. I also hate games that require lock-on!
@@MediaKitGaming Oh I started Sifu recently, I got my butt kicked a lot but I always felt like there was something I could've done to prevent it. I finished the first level, enjoying it a lot so far. Be brave, I reckon you can make it!
I also really liked Absolver, made by the same devs which is PvE, PvP and co-op. It's also quite unique in that it allows you to build your own moveset. Heavily suggest you check that out if you haven't already. Only downside is that the games PvE content is short, but with such a well designed combat system it's fun to come back to from time to time, just like with Oni!
Thanks for the encouragement. I do plan to return. I’m just not looking forward to training myself on a new combat system. Thanks for the Absolver tip.
Boring soulslike wtf! It's the best genre!
I don't like Fighting games either because of the points you mentioned, which is why I love Smash Bros. It's like Oni: it's simple and has a lot of moves because of directional inputs
My favorite Melee combat is Sekiros, it's different from the other From Software Games and a lot faster, if it's the combats speed you find 'boring'
@@Yorikoification I don't know about fighting games in other platforms, but I've played Shadow Fight on mobile and surprisingly the combat system is so similar to Oni game.
I'm surprised so less games use this mechanic that is affected by our movement. I know this game called Final Fantasy Dissidia on PSP that executes different attacks based on our direction too but that's a whole another game.
A complex combat system made out of very simple command combinations. Such a rare feature in modern day games.
For Honor
@@balakay2830 Congrats, you managed to name a single game. This is what "rare" means.
I agree.
@@schibleh531 now, Wanted: Dead
@@schibleh531 devil may cry, monster hunter, literally any game made by platinum.
It's crazy how impactful a dynamic combat system can be. We need to see games notice this and put effort into this area. We desperately need more Melee combat games and fluid parkour like movement gameplay mechanics
I recently played Hi-Fi rush and boy does it have both those things
This game need a remake it was so good
what it needs is some similar game but improved. not a remake.
I was gonna comment the same thing
@@H0MY911 I'd really like to see Oni's combat system mixed with an Online RPG game. Imagine The Matrix Online + Oni's combat improved and diversified with different styles and weapons. Idk it's such a shame that we didn't ever have any other game like Oni, it's the only game of it's own kind, first and last
YES , need
Would like similar game like it but it's a FPS with 3rd person melee like Oni,maybe weapon melee similar to Jedi knight?
5:10 A little mentioned thing is that the stepping disarm, if you have no weapon, ends with the weapon in your hands and the animation as can be seen, automatically aims for a headshot, which you can do before Konoko steps off, for the ultimate in stylish executions!
I did not know that.
Wow! I didn't know you could shoot prior to the animation ending. I've been playing this game since I was in my single-digits. HUUUUUGE!!!
John wick style
I also love doing that..!
cqc before mgsv
I’m glad you posted this. It’s a hard game to find, hardly anyone knows about it. I spent a lot of time playing Oni when i was younger and thought the moves were SO hard but eventually i beat the game. The sounds and moves were incredibly nostalgic while watching your video. Thank you
Ikr, so cool, that people still remember this game.
That's because it's a dog shit game. I really don't get what people see in this. There have been thousands of games with better combat lol
This is one of those games that I had the demo of and played the hell out of but never actually got. Not sure if I never had the money or just never saw it in any of the few stores near my rural home that actually sold games.
@@PumpkinHoard i remember buying mine used and ever since I haven’t seen it in any stores
@@robertcastaneda5254 That tracks. I'm pretty damn sure I looked but could never find it. Such a shame because the combat was awesome for the era.
Thanks for showcasing Oni! Bungie West worked inhumanly hard on it, and it's a unique game that deserves to be remembered. I do want to mention that there was a sort of New Game+, in that beating the game unlocked cheats. The most famous cheat is the one named at the end of the game's credits, "shapeshifter". Entering this on the Pause/Diary Screen lets you play as any of the other characters in the game, and many of them have a unique moveset that's as complete as Konoko's.
As you said, Konoko's own advanced moves continue to be locked each time you progress through the game, unless you install the Anniversary Edition fan mod framework, which unlocks them all from the start (this was somewhat controversial, and we'll be making it optional in the future).
Anyway, I'm impressed at how you recreated the Diary Screen pages for your video. That must have taken some work!
Thanks. I actually captured the Diary Screen pages directly from the game and cut them out in Photoshop. I played around with "shapeshifter" a little back in the day. I didn't occur to me to regard it as NG+ but it's a valid point. I did not know about the mod that unlocked all her moves from the start. I should install it.
I have happy memories from this game back when it was still defensible to be a "mac gamer". I was also at the Macworld Expo where it was demoed! Huge lines! I remember finishing the game but had no idea about the shapeshifter thing, damn!!
Didn't you guys also hire a real architect for the level designs??
@@pmarreck Just to be clear, I didn't work on the game, but yeah, they hired two architects fresh out of school to design the levels. It sort of backfired when they designed overly realistic spaces and had to take out a lot of detail later :-)
I'm jealous that you got to see Oni at Macworld. I was there at least one year that it was being shown, but never saw the booth for some reason. It kills me that I missed seeing their multiplayer feature before it was cut.
@@Iritscen it’s too bad they cut the multiplayer because it was hella fun! and that’s why there was such a line! Macworlds were magic, I miss them muchly
I always shapeshifted into Mukade. that character was cool AF :D
The phrase 'git gud' didn't exist back then but that's exactly what the game required and it's so satisfying once you master it.
It's funny how the phrase "git gud" was popularised by Dark Souls fans....But the skill ceiling is so low in soulslikes it takes you just a few minutes to master the combat so the term "git gud" isn't even applicable there
@@Yorikoification 😴
@@Yorikoification Got Oni when it released. iirc, the gameplay has a lot of horizontal width but not a lot of vertical depth. Whereas souls-likes are the opposite, deep combat emergent from narrow move sets. Konoko has a lot of tools but only a few different types of bolt heads to use those tools on. The directional attacks are a novel idea, tho in practice, having to stop your trajectory to do any moves not linked to that trajectory is janky.
The term didn't, but that was NES's whole thing.
@@Yorikoification DS had far less inputs but had enough for some degree of skill expression. But it's the challenge and enemy mechanics that was built around it was what popularized the phrase. And there is actually a very high skill ceiling in sweaty PvP esp with metas like hardswapping. Oni has a very high degree of skill expression with the amount of inputs it has. Probably comparable to Black Desert that could take hundreds or thousands of hours to master. But the game isn't really difficult or lengthy so there was no real incentive to master the combat other than just to fck around and be stylish.
Great video! A fun thing worth mentioning about Oni is that you get access to a bunch of great cheats once you beat the game, one of those cheats lets you play as any character you come across in the game along with their ENTIRE moveset! You can play as brawlers and throw people around, you can play as the boss characters and use their signature moves etc. It adds further variety to an already complex and fun combat system.
2:25 The Fifth Element's Zorg reference did not go unnoticed 😂👌
Here for this!
fifth element is a good movie.
If there was ANY one single game I would keep returning to, it would be this. The combat system is so satisfying that replaying individual levels became like an Arcade mode. For all the game's flaws, I must agree with you that I too have yet to find another game where a combat system would be so addictive.
Not sure if you know it but The Matrix: Path of Neo also has a really cool combat system, and it's an old game
@@blinddirge-san6497sifu. Sifu. Sifu
I'm going to cry from the fact that i spent so much time looking for this game for years as i only remebred her funny hairstyle from my childhood...my man, you deserve a medal.
This game was so far ahead of it's time it never had a chance. I learned WADS movement from this game.
So good. It deserves way more love.
I honestly never expected anybody to mention this game ever again. For those of you that want to play it and get the best out of it, make sure you download AE (Anniversary Edition) which is a mod that allows you to download from a big database of mods, everything is super easy. You just select the mods, and you install them (some of them might conflict). There is a great range of mods, from retextures and reskins, to new levels and new characters, new AI system and so much more. I’ve had at least 200 hours of fun with this game, and i’ve always wished that somebody mentioned it ever again
Looks fun as hell AND has a big modding scene? Okay, I HAVE to try this game now.
I agree. I played this a lot back in the day. I never even remembered seeing a video about it until now.
The most amazing combat experience in game was playing multiplayer Oni at Macworld Expo. It was criminal that they removed it from game to get the game released in time. If they had kept it in, it would have changed gaming forever.
why was it so good?
@ ok so from 20+ year memory. Just amazed at how it was like Tekken but full world, being able to sidestep a grapple. That at a certain distance going for the disarm was the way to go. There were some importantly frame locks that got you time to get out of being ganged up on. I only got to do a few rounds in line, but it was shocking to me how smooth it was. If they even kept it to lan only I would have been happy.
@@kargrym its a shame it was discarded because it probably would have popularized oni considerably more if it had online support. FFA matches or team brawlers. It would've been bungies other multiplayer gem. Oni has an incredible fighting system and I dont say that as someone copying what the next youtube ted talker thinks.
I agree, if they had kept it even for lan only people would still be playing this game today
Shooting the screaming at long ranges and watching it seeking and killing enemies on its own, breaking the enemie's columns in a stealth way, doing a perfect combo... This game can keep you entertained for days, even weeks. I finished it several times and i have never been bored. It seems like every re-run is somehow different, it's insanely enjoyable. AND THE COMMUNITY IS STILL ALIVE AND MODDING THE GAME!
Are they? Where do I find them?
@@denazaz what?
I love this game. Its took the fighting of a great 2d side scrolling fighting game, like double dragon or SoR, figured out how to do it in 3d and added guns. And I loved the anime style.
i guess it's kind of randomly asking but does anyone know a good place to stream new series online ?
@Oakley Anderson Thanks, I signed up and it seems like they got a lot of movies there =) Appreciate it!!
@Brodie Jake you are welcome :D
I rarely use guns in this game
The number of these combos I remembered well watching just goes to show how truly amazing it was
So happy we finally have Sifu as a great contender in the melee combat side for third person games. Hoping we get to see more like Sifu and Oni in the future.
I don't consider games like them as Third Person combat. They're more of automated second person combat. They do not contain the freedom of Third Person movement during combat, it locks into the enemy and you just press necessary buttons in the correct timings.
@@ahlatagaci2018Spine from Nekki has some potential. Time will tell but little bits of gameplay that ARE out there show it to be a gun fu sifu type game.
@@PaRadaRada yeah. When it was first announced, I remember it was supposed to be something like action 5v5 Multiplayer PvP and PvE game with third-person camera combat. Then it turned out to be another average game. Honestly I'm very tired of pressing few buttons and watching Kung Fu animations forever or doing the same thing again and again or doing things that feel really fake. A real combat with direct and true actions would be infinitely replayable and fun, + and that is exactly why Shadow Fight 2 is really loved for it's combat. So I expected Nekki to surprise us with some unique gameplay again.
Edit: Added sentence +
Thoughts on character action games like DMC, Bayonetta, OG God of War, 3D ninja gaiden, black myth wukong? @@ahlatagaci2018
I honestly liked Absolver more than what little I've gotten to play Sifu (between rent and bills, being able to afford a new game is a rare thing and deciding which one to get is a heavy choice), but still a really fun one regardless.
I saw this in a magazine as a kid but never got to play it, must have been more than 20yrs ago
i saw it too LMAO
Same here, I remember being fixated on the art designs
Same
"Happy Back-breaking!" lol
Man that kick is dirty.
These combat mechanics look amazing!
Never looked into the game although I came across it once or twice.
Thanks for reviewing it! Really interesting.
I'm late, but one thing I wish you'd mentioned is that there's an amazing cheat code that lets you play as _any_ combatant that's showing up in the level. From the pause menu (F1) you just had to type in shapeshifter and then F8 would let you cycle through the enemies. Oni might not have a new game plus, which is a shame for sure, but replaying the game while trying out different enemies is almost infinte fun. They all had their very own unique move set and some almost as extensive as Konoko's. You can even play as the bosses! Mukade - the cyber ninja - has some of the coolest moves and Barabas is such a powerhouse it's ridiculous.
Other than that cool little review :)
I loved Oni and still do. This really needed a remake or a sequel. Even the guns were pretty damn cool and creative, even though you wouldn't be using them all that much
Awww yea mah man mukade! And the red ninjas too
Yep, if getting used to one combat system wasn’t hard enough, try the fighting styles of all the other characters. Muro was a hard one to get used to.
I adore this game and people that criticize it never seem to bring up the amazing gameplay. They just whine about the weapons being underpowered, not realizing that this is to encourage the use of hand to hand combat. Many have also criticized the graphics for not having complex and detailed environments, again, not realizing the gameplay benefits of not having cluttered environments that otherwise could cause the player to get snagged on something at every turn with little room to breath that can become a very frustrating experience. I know this video also briefly pointed out the dated graphics, but in a time when playing old games is the norm, this "problem" is now irrelevant.
yup and the stealth mechanics you have insta takedowns in the back for heaven's sake the weapons themselves have their uses (yo guys those are the dude's that gave you Halo so it is a given) and can help you turn the tide in battle if you know when to use them! They are nicely worked into the hand to hand combat disarming baddies and taking out them with their own guns never gets old! And the environments! You can use them to your advantage as well lure your enemies towards an upper floor and then throw them down or dodge as they try to hit you and fall.
@kulturpyro You're right, those aren't really underpowered, but they do eat through ammo like crazy.
Funny enough this old game looks better and better with each new videocard I get 😊
Wasn't the barren levels pretty standard for the time?
I know their more famous title relied on this too. For all the touted open environments in Halo's marketing, it put you through a lot of shitty indoor levels. The archives (I think that was the name?) were just grey room with blocks in it, a hallway, the same room with the blocks rearanged, rinse repeat. When the campaign made me go through that same level backwards, I returned it to the store. (I had no internet on my game computer so I couldn't do multiplayer. )
I also really enjoyed it from a story point of view!
What's insane is that I just found my dad's old ps2 along with THIS game TODAY while trying to find the ps3, while not the outcome I expected I'm definitely not disappointed
Haha. Oni was a great game and never forget its multi ending discovered accidentally :) . So I was frustrated to fight again the final boss. It was a huge monster, really strong and I went back to the earlier level to learn to be better before facing him again. I ended up done the level where you hunt down the Police chief but this time I didn't shoot him, just dropped my gun and went out, though the game will not be progressing but wanted to load back the save to practice jumping anyway, but it did and oh well I paid no attention... until the end when I prepared for the boss final transformation and its... it's not happened. IT was totally different. The police chief arrived with his men's and joined me to fight, the big baddy had no chance to turn into the monster, he brought more henchmen in but that was something I easily could handle :D and the feeling was so intense I saw the story actually turned into this. I loved it and this game always remain in my memories :)
Wow just came to know this game had so many secrets after reading the comments. I loved this game and played it through so often.
This game was so versatile and unique for its time, with (light) parkour elements, great (as you mentioned) battle system, interesting boss fights, creative levels (dream level for instance) and ending depending on a moral choice! Still in 2021 I will gladly replay the final brawl between the TCTF forces and Muro's gang. Imagine a game where friendly npcs are actually helping and fighting instead of standing around like furniture *cough cough* ASSASINSCREEDVALHALLA *cough*
I hated the dream level for 2 reasons.
1. It started with the world's longest unskippable cutscene.
2. It was freaking hard! You had to go through Muro and 2 cloaked ninjas before getting any hypos. And the rest of it wasn't a cakewalk. Completing the dream level, I'd be exhausted and would have to take a time out.
@@MediaKitGamingyes unskippable scene haha you can drink some water or go toilet first
@@MediaKitGamingI beat this level just with run and tackle, I do it again and again until this level finish 😂
I think one of this game's greatest achievements is how intuitive its combat system ends up feeling. Even back in the day around its release - with no way to look anything up and without the ability to read English - I managed to figure out just about all of these moves and combos.
Still have no idea how I stumbled across it, probably some yard sale or something, but I absolutely love this game and I always wished there was more of it.
Figured out he combos without being able to read english? Impressive!
Finished this game at least 5 times, never gets boring. You can even mod the hell out of it if you'd like. I also really love the setting and soundtrack. Story isn't all that bad either imo
the fact that if you chose to kill the baldie it changes the ending
I bought this game on a whim when i was a kid.. Still one of my favorites ever every once in a while i get an urge to go back and play thru. Wish they had finished oni 2
I remember watching my friend play this back when I was 10 years old, he had a new PC and this was his game of the moment. What I can't quite believe is how good it looks for something from 2001. Super clean, stylish, crisp visuals that stand up even now. Pretty amazing!
Rising Fury and Devil Spin Kick were those types of moves that, if you were alone trying to practice, you could do them over and over again, but once combat started it felt impossible to pull them off in the heat of battle. Fantastic game for the time, though, and I played the hell out of it. Thanks for the trip down memory lane!
My most favourite game EVER!! Oni was a masterpiece ahead of its time. It really deserves a proper remake for current gen consoles.
Dude, I hope you've tried god hand, you'll love it!
@@s.sradon9782 wow nope I never tried it. I watched some videos and it looks great! Too bad is not available on the PS5. I may give it a shot emulating it on PC 😁
Forget it, a remake would mean you get a pink haired trans blob who will preach at you.
@@jackiechan7909 I know that's a risk... but I NEED a remake 🥺
@@jackiechan7909they must’ve called you Danny Phantom back in highschool the way you’re fighting ghosts
So you haven't played any From titles, Monster hunter titles, Dragons dogma 1/2, Dark Messiah, DMC titles, MGR Revengence. Not to take away from Oni, but there are plenty of "modern" games that specialize in exceptional melee combat
I am definitely gonna pick this up and play, but I'm seeing a lack of mentioning DMC as an entire series as well as MGR:R, which is the one metal gear game with melee combat.
DMC, BAYONETTA, SEKIRO, Prince of Persia WW... we're not mentioned like-.....
@@brupts7297 But are these not more like the Batman games? Here it seems that every input counts and the emphasis is not on the elaborate combo but each small move. And unlike many others, only that MGR:R seems to take the direction of the attack into account!
also God Hand
@@otto8684 Every input counted in Prince of Persia Warrior within. Yes, there were slow mo finishing moves, but they were quick and only required one input and would only trigger on enemies that were almost dead. The same input would do a basic attack on an enemy that still had some health left.
Monster Hunter too
A key component of Oni as a whole is its combat system. I've just started playing/streaming this game again and I can safely say that the hand-to-hand aspect is way ahead of its time. Totally agree with your thoughts here.
This title honestly deserves way more recognition than it ever got!
Babe, wake up! New fave channel just dropped.
Edit: THIS VIDEO WAS RELEASED FOUR YEARS AGO!!!! WHY AM I ALWAYS SO LATE?!?!?!?!
The algorithm has blessed him brother. It calls on us to watch the gud gud stuff
You forgot to mention that You can shapeshift into your opponents and You will have their moves!
I still love this game and yes - community made a multiplayer for it.
But only by cheat
yeah, but to be able to use it You have to finish game first.
@@hakeryk Wish there was a better system for that. Spamming f5 to change was boring
@@dukkemonterier3429 Some years ago, i found a mod or some kind of add on for oni that give a simple fighting room and you can choose character you want to play. Some people say it is the unfinish suppose to be multiplayer part of the game. I dont remember the detail, but it is something like that if i'm not mistaken.
Oni is a really experimental 3d beat n up. But I also would recomend other action games like God Hand, Bayonetta and DMC
This game reminds me a lot of the Jedi Knight series. Jedi Academy in particular has direction-influenced attacks, and each of the lightsaber disciplines (there were at least 5 from what I remember) had their own unique attacks for those directions. You also had some ridiculously advanced traversal techniques like wall runs, vaulting boost jumps, you could even flip off of opponents if they were in front and behind you!
One of my favourite childhood games. Absolutely loved the combat. Always wondered if there were any other games with better combat. I guess now I know the answer.
Some respondents have suggested Seeping Dogs. There's a fair argument to be made there and I'll be dedicating a future video to the combat in that game.
God hand
You might be interested to know there are a couple other crouching moves. If you tap crouch and punch at the same time, she does a two-fister that knocks down enemies. If you hold crouch, forward and then punch, she does a sweep with her fist that also knocks them down. Crouch and kick simultaneously does a slightly quicker variant of the usual crouch, and then kick sweep.
I appreciate that. I don't think I knew about the double fist punch. The others moves I knew, but used them so seldomly that I forgot to include them. I also forgot to include kicks and punches while she's in the air. That's just a glaring oversight. This game makes it hard to catalog ALL fighting moves - and that's what I loved about it.
today, i was decades old When i found this childhood gem of mine
I HAD FORGOTTEN ITS NAME!
anyway you earned a new subscriber
Finally someone talking about it, it puts games nowadays to shame honestly, it was too awesome
I played this game and I remember liking it a lot, though I don't remember finishing it, nor the immense amount of melee combos you mentioned in your video.
On the same theme, great melee system: Jedi Academy had a great saber fighting with directional swings and cut combos. I don't talk about the specials (forward lunge, backflip swing and DFA and some others), but chained normal swings, that, even in strong / slow mode could be made a devastating combo. Not to mention the movement tricks, like bunny hopping, when you could fly on an opponent, slicing in him/her, if you timed your swing correctly.
90's and early 2000's, what a time to be a gamer. :)
Great video on the topic, I really appreciate deep dives like this.
dude I completely forgot about this game. My brother and I played it a bunch growing up. So glad you reminded me of it.
This was my first ps2 game and I only appreciate nowadays some in depth fighting mechanics
alternate timeline: Bungie releases Oni 4
This used to be one of my favourite games, and I completely forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me!
"An action game like no other"
Be right back, I gotta reinstall something really quick...
This is one of the games my brother and I got at a pawn shop with my dad back in the early 2000s. It stuck with me all these years but I've never met anyone else who has played it! It was just so cool and the cheats were a lot of fun.
I have the NCP combats are pretty good too. Get yourselves the Anniversary Edition and you can unlock (by command code) other NPC and bosses. Fighting as Mukade is awesome, he was the best fighter.
5:44 if mirrors edge had while standing moves from tekken
Thank you so much for this video!!! You brought me back 20 years at least. On of my all time favorites. Running lariat was my favorite.
Dunno if these would fit your criteria or not but....What about character action games like Devil May Cry 5, Bayonetta 2 and Nier Automata? These are not PURELY melee as they have long range options...
smash has long range options too
You mean spectacle fighters?
Their melee combat(No-weapons/hand-to-hand) is nowhere near Oni's godlike prowess.
But aside from the melee part, the weapon mastery of DMC is out of this world
@@maddyx3711 god hand exists and is hand to hand focused as opposed to weapon focused
Running Lariat, I did this all the entire game with almost every enemy that was possibile on xD Oh god, how I loaved this game, it was just way a head of it's time, wish it would be re-released for steam or at least for gog. ♥ :3
Besides that game God Hand from Clover Studios has probably one of the best brawler and melee mechanics (but it painfully hard and non-forgiving).
I was going to mention God Hand... it's difficult but a mediocre player should be capable of getting through it. It only gets really difficult if you are a little too proficient.
I dearly loved the Scream Cannon, which I nicknamed the Dream Gun. Shooting out that slow canister to release a dream spirit on an unwitting opponent was good creepy fun.
Best melee combat game to me is God Hand, seen nothing like it at all.
Oni has a lot unigue combat styles and one best combat gameplay there is almost no game you can compare it with, but with God Hand you have more similar games that can be compare with and Oni is 2001 and still to this day gameplay feels great and doesnt feel that much outdated. God Hand is also great game but i find Oni overall better and one best games that i ever play
Great video, I just recently heard about this game, and was looking for a good one that discussed the combat system itself, and this video was right on the money.
Thank you. Glad it helped.
This game was criminally slept on, I remember this was one of my first pc games as a kid
Ah Sweet memories!! One of the earliest games I played and one of the best too. very very underrated. Bungie do something with it for the new era of gameplay!!!
Legit one of my favorite games of all time. Glad I still have my copy on Ps2. Love how different it is to all of Rockstar's other games. It always is something I bring up to newer gamers lol.
rockstar? its a game from bungie...
@@alphaomega887654321 You can easily look it up. It is developed by both. PS2 is Rockstar. Which is the one I have and play.
@@KindredDoomBot rockstar only ported the game from pc to ps2 but they dont did anything gameplaywise or storywise. Was all by bungie west. You can read that ;)
@@alphaomega887654321 I can read that Rockstar is credited for being a dev so... ;)
@@KindredDoomBot yeah wikipedia is a little bit strange and a lot of informations are missing haha
Oni, Evil Islands, Grandia 2 and No One Lives Forever were one of my favourites back then. All came out roughly at the same time and were extremely fun. I have no idea how many times I've replayed them.
Evil Islands? Give "Xanadu Next" a try, you will love it. Though I greatly suggest using a cheat engine to bypass the bs dungeon keys requirement which kills pacing and requires grinding
Wow , this game has so much detail , i wasn't ready for all that
Agreed about the combat system. I thought Enter the Matrix gave it the old college try with its combat as well in ways similar to Oni like directional attacks, unique disarms, and throws, etc.,
Wall-run attacks were super cool, despite being frustrating to get to work.
I just tried game last night thanks to this video and had a blast, thank you!
Sorry but Absolver deserves this title.
Best melee combat ever? How about Nioh 1&2 on PS4, and Ninja Gaiden 2004 on the original Xbox? Those games have the best 3D melee combat I’ve ever experienced, by a country mile.
I like ninja gaiden but there’s too much spam in it imo
@@MILDMONSTER1234ninja Gaiden is cool and all, but it's to easy to just spam flying swallow and Ynazuma drop. Also some combos have the same button pressing but different timing making some combos really hard to consistently pulling off instead of repeating the same starting combo because the inputs read way to fast
dunno why this vid popped out in my feed, but thank God it did. I played this game obsessively back in the day, snapping dude's backs was my favorite move lol. for a moment you brought me back to the times when I was a happy and clueless kid, thank you :)
I'm always happy when someone gives Oni some attention but at 0:28 when he says Batman in the Arkham games involves mashing the one attack button repeatedly he severely undercuts his credibility. If you try to get through those game's mid to late game fights just mashing the attack button and you will fail.
that combat feels really reminiscent of sifu, which adds that same kind of directional input combo system, but also includes way more defensive options with 4 different dodge techniques and a block/parry system
I think Sifu's combat is reminiscent of this
Thank you for giving me the precious gift of knowing this beautiful game!
Remember Me and Sleeping Dogs had a pretty good combat system
I liked Sleeping Dogs, but couldn't get into Remember Me. I felt more like making suggestions, rather than controlling the main character :) Maybe I'll give it another try. Some day.
nah, it combat system very normal no where near the combat show in this video
Sleeping Dogs is hands down the best combat in a GTA-like game. Best part are environmental interactions, it's like playing a Hong Kong movie, you stuff people into dumpsters, break aquariums with their heads, and throw them into spinning fans.
Excellent video on an excellent game!
god hand, with its many options from your move list or situationally from dodges and enemy states, and the melee options you can get in resident evil 4 remake mercenaries mode - these are both games with amazing feeling melee combat
"Batman... pushing the one attack button repeatedly"
Thugs with a shield or electric stick: "I'm about to end this man's whole carreer".
I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but come on, it's not just that.
Yeah, it's lame when people reduce the Arkham combat system like that. Spamming attack or counter only works at the very start of the game. One guy with a shield or some other weapon and it's not like that anymore, and halfway through the game you start facing tons of dudes with varying weapons. The games also get much better on Knightmare difficulty where it doesn't show the counter icons, you have to actually pay attention to each enemy in order to counter.
Yeah, some of the later waves of enemies in City and all of Knight can force the player to get a little creative and explore more of the combat
@@CidGuerreiro1234 Only tried Arkham games recently as they collected dust in my steam backlog, and I guess people who critique them are just upset about popular things, as many games tried to copy them soon. But they're based on directions, zoning and managing multi-enemy fights, a similar combat system in an older, underrated game is Jet Li: Rise of Honor, you flip analog stick to hit someone exactly where it points with a lot of unique moves depending on direction.
Wait until he finds out about The Matrix: Path of Neo (2005)
My dude is only here to glaze one game 😂 Neo ain't gonna show
@jameselrick6698 haha true😂
Oh man what a nostalgia! I remember one of the cool stuff in the game is a cheat code (which the game would only let you use if you have already beaten it), that lets you play as any character that appears in the level, and every one of them has his/her own unique move set! some of them were pretty rich, a masterpiece of a game!
It's been 20 years now & I've *STILL* never come across a game with such superior, hardcore, badass, technical & satisfying Melee combat nor have has anyone created a 2nd part to this Godlike game..... fucking sadge!😔
I can suggested another game with satisfying combat. Matrix path of neo.
There is slow-mo system on button, cool attacks that can for example leave physical impact on the world(Crushed walls, furniture, ground.). You unlock additional combos and grab attacks during the game. Also attacks will change on some points in the story(After neo beats agent first time and Become NEO).
Grab attacks are varied: you chain multiple people in one grab and Neo will attack them, throw people in specific direction(Destroying bookshelves and other things is cool), you can do nothing and he will just hard kick away, or you can do left click dozen attacks on opponent body right click again and kick him in the face or press space to grab him and lift to ceiling like neo vs agent Smith on subway and then spin him around or just land with your boots on opponent face or another combo with mouse.
You have guns and Max Payne slow-mo. You can run on walls and shoot on people,iconic dodge bullets or stopping them and throw them back.
And of course different melee weapons with their own move set attacks and grabs. Chaining multiple people with weapon is possible too.
Last boss fight is amazingly interactive. Depends on location and attacks you can slam boss on the floor and go fight there or you can throw him through wall to continue flying fight. Of course boss can slam you too and fight will continue floor below.
I recommend playing on highest difficulty but for that you need to beat prologue enemies and boss. Depends on how well you do in the fight difficulty can be changed.
This game was revolutionary thanks for presenting it
My suggestions for games that melee was impressive as heck :
Tales of Berseria, Devil May Cry, Nioh, Wonderful 101, and God Hand
Dragon's Dogma has DMC combat AND Shadow of the Colossus climbing on bosses in an open world RPG. Haven't played the sequel yet.
I saw the art and a waterfall of memories started flowing in xD I remember this, I remember drawing this character as a kid too xDD
i remember changing my character to the lion ax guy for some reason.. this was a fun little game, i loved every moment of it.
id say godhand had the best one
I forgot about Oni. It's great to see games that I really enjoyed (massive fun factor) getting recognition. Sometimes we need to look backwards for inspiration and greatness.
devil may cry fans watching with a red face
Not really a red face, more of a confused one because it's clear the creator is not aware of the Character Action Genre so can't really blame him.
Oni is something I also consider a classic but no way does it have the best melee combat system ever, heck if by melee to you mean just pure hands then God Hand has Oni beat.
why im confused
"Kinoko doesnt look as cool as batman" I beg to differ. Address my hormones on this topic.
Omg I played Demo so much back in the day, thank you for reminding me. It truly was the best combat I ever played, super addictive
Oni was cute and all, but move variety does not a complex system make. How many different skills is the game testing in the player, do they overlap, is it a hard and fast test or is it a series of independent systems that interact freely like an immersive sim, what choices is the player forced to make; these are all things that describe depth. The fact that the most there is to say about Oni is just reading its move list speaks volumes. It's like Sleeping Dogs: a pretty coat of paint, deep as the page it's painted on.
facts
You said it yourself in the comment, but more moves actually make the game more complex... just not necessarily deeper. Depth is about the number of meaningful results that can arise from a given set of options. Complexity is about the number of options that can be used to achieve a given result. Creating depth and complexity from a reduced set of options is what's known as "elegance" in design. So the question for Oni is: why would you use 40 different moves to beat a level instead of just 4? There are actually simple ways to encourage movement variety, like keeping a "flow state" that makes you stronger-though I also agree that when well done, a system like the one shown in Oni can be more fun and engaging; if you can't attack thoughtlessly, you still have to learn the patterns, and then like in a tony hawk game, it can be fun to use different movements just for how satisfying it is (sure, THPS games can actually take variety into account for combo scores, but you just have the natural drive to keep combos interesting). Too much "elegance" can make the game too abstract too; having choices can also serve to add "color" to systems, and that's not a minor point to ignore either. Anyway, I think that games like Oni at least try to make something interesting, unlike 95% of the games nowadays that have really boring or negligently unambitious systems.
@@tinne26 These are really nice thoughts, but believe it or not "number of meaningful results" can actually just be another form of complexity without added depth unless you pair it with layering.
Take, for example, a combat system meant to handle rooms full of large numbers of enemies. You are given a large variety of attacks, each powered by a different element. Each enemy in the room can only be damaged by one specific element. If you have a dozen different kinds of enemies here and a dozen different kinds of attacks, then when you plow an attack into the group you can have one of a dozen different outcomes as each attack will only meaningfully harm an enemy that none of your other attacks will. This large variety of outcomes does not add much depth though. But now add a layer that demands attention besides what enemy takes what damage type, like say populate the room with areas that you must keep enemies out of in order to power yourself up, and enemy AI that congregates away from where you're attacking. Now you must simultaneously manage what technique you're choosing with where you press your offense in order to shape the battle and maintain your advantage. This is not revolutionarily deep, but it's already leagues deeper than needing to type-match 12 elements to 12 enemy varieties.
Independent systems that are operating at the same time in a game scenario and must all be kept in mind, there's depth. Examples of independent systems that are *actually* used in modern game design include positioning (not letting checkmate scenarios evolve around you, like getting backed to a cliff), spacing (make them whiff while also creating your ideal range when on offense), timing tests, reaction tests, type matching, or gambling (intelligently managing risk and reward for actions whose outcomes are never guaranteed). All choices and actions will end up affecting more than one layer, making them all so much more important and impactful and giving the player so much more to master.
Another great way to provide depth is to add asymmetrical value to the options in any one layer. This is especially good in human to human interactions. If an option is high risk low reward, then players may rarely bother being ready to counter it over other scarier options. This in turns *lowers* the risk by making it more likely to go through. That's Tekken baby!
Also, "flow state" is not the smooth use of a variety of techniques. Flow state is the state of concentration incited by a task that is just challenging enough to require focus, while expressing skills that the performer has a comfortable mastery over. It's the state that comes from performing something that sits at the border of something you've practiced a lot and something that is above your skill level, and is exemplified by the feeling of performing without needing to interact with the discursive part of your consciousness.
And we actually have a ton of modern games that provide systems like this, there's no point in being pessimistic and falling into the trap of thinking "everything is bad and shallow these days". Games like Nioh 2, Heat Signature, Nine Sols, Armored Core 6, Tekken 8, Hades 2, Monster Hunter World, Ultrakill, Elden Ring, Street Fighter 6, Streets of Rage 4, River City Girls 2, Horizon Forbidden West, Returnal, 2XKO, Windjammers 2, Inscryption, Balatro, En Garde, Unworthy, Salt and Sanctuary, Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, Dragon's Dogma 2, Lies of P, and Remnant 2 have all been released in the last generation and all feature deep interlocking systems. We're in a golden age of gaming and innovation. Just as long as you don't limit yourself to buying only the games with the big marketing budgets.
@@TheJakeJackson you got some thick rose colored glasses if you think we're in a golden age of gaming. I like your taste big time from that list you dropped, but it ain't a big list. Games have gotten incredibly good to look at but variety and freshness has gotten stifled by commerce, it isn't a game industry specific thing either; it's across the board with what is supposed to be artistic media for whatever reason. Just think about the ps2/xbox/gamecube era (unrionically oni comes out of that era) and the density of novel projects (I'm not gonna try to make a list, that would be a ludicrous task; you can think back and look one up).
A very good game when it comes to mechanics and gameplay, but it felt unfinished, the interiors lacked details and the world felt empty, I liked it a lot but something about it felt really off.
True..😅 it was weirdly empty..but I enjoyed
you just made me remember a lot of my childhood evenings trying to play this game when i did not knew english and never finish it. i guess is time to finally completing it.
Disgustingly underrated game.
I think the difficulty was one of the strengths of this game.
Deaths never felt unfair(except for falling off the rooftops :P) and once you got the hang of the melee combat, memorized the pickup's locations, it was still challenging but insanely fun.
I'd also mention that the enemy A.I. at the time, how they fought made it replayable. Actually that A.I. is more clever than the ones many games have today **looking at SW:Outlaws**
Unfortunately It was a bit of a challenge to run it on modern hardware, but at least there are some unofficial patches for it to run in higher resolution.
You say that "no game matched Oni's potential" and how you'd like if "other games provided even a tenth" of what it had to offer. I'm honestly both surprised and shocked that you haven't heard of a franchise called Devil May Cry. Absolutely give DMC 3, 4 and 5 a go (no need to play 1 and 2 as the story in those is irrelevant and combat is not developed) and if you still need more after that, there's also a reboot.
Oh and, cool video btw :)
I disagree with your assessment about DMC 1 (that one's also worth playing imo) but otherwise, I second this notion.
Regarding potential, the video is talking about what the game manages to do with just a few buttons. Oni has punch, kick, jump and crouch - there are no 'different styles' or unique melee weapons. It manages to fit in more than 16 directional attacks + combos and finishers with only two attack buttons. There is no need to go into a menu or press a third or fourth button to switch between move sets.
This is from a fighting game fan, but you can't really compare the two, in Oni you get a punch button and a kick button but if you pay attention most of the attacks and combos are mostly manual, DMC's are mostly auto combos, no input directions to change the strings and you get a launcher that converts a ground combo to an air combo but the combo system itself is very basic the only semblence of the depth you get in DMC comes from switching weapons and combining with styles, the famous "Trick sword Trick Sword gun Trick Sword" it may look extremely tough on the fingers and it is... But you're using cancels to cancel out of mostly auto combos and animations, no manuals there.
One advice check out the Gundam versus series. Watch how a simple combat system can turn auto-combos into manual combos.
@@raptros inputs are not the same as depth
@@raptrosthe way you describe the dmc combat it sounds like you're only talking about Dante. I think Nero's playstyle is more comparable to Oni's combat. In dmc4 he only has 2 melee weapons and one range. Most of his attacks needs motion inputs also his revving mechanics were you have to time it to get a stronger attack
When I was in high school I worked at a Laser Tag place. One night a game developer rented the facility out to hold a game release party. I didnt work the event, bit I hung out and chatted with some devs for the first hour of the event. They were very chill. Come to find out, the game being released was Oni.
Sick! Any more details?
@@MediaKitGaming No, sorry. I'm old. Ha ha. That's all I got.
So you want DMC?
oni > dmc
proof me wrong lil bro
@@Ryūdōji-Reizōthat’s a bold take, PROVE yourself right first what makes Oni better?
@ I’m too old to be a lil bro, dude. Don’t flatter me my back hurts.
I mean do you want your opinion challenged cause you’re allowed to think Oni is better. If you want me to I’ll throw some shit out there. You have longevity. Oni has one game while DMC has seven entries. Five mainline games, one better than you’d think but still not great reboot, and an okay mobile game. When DMC5 came out it was a critical and financial success. There’s a Netflix series based on DMC about to drop and it’s headed up by the guy who did Castlevania.
Do you mean mechanically? Cause Oni blows DMC2 out of the water mechanically and I won’t argue otherwise but DMC2 is also notoriously hated for being a boring and uninspired sludge. That said the cool things Oni does with its directional combat is improved upon ten fold in each DMC game (again except for 2 because why hire people to actually make your game? Seriously that dev cycle was a nightmare). Combo strings based on stick input, delays, style and weapon switching…Once you unlock a move or a weapon you have it period and can use it when replaying levels.
I mean none of this matters. I played Oni as a kid. It was one of the few PS2 games I actually owned instead of rented. Sadly it got left behind and largely forgotten but DMC is going as strong as a character action series can. I’d love to see someone take another crack at it with modern controls and QoL.
Now I am super old and I have to get up early so I can count my new face wrinkles. Peace my man.
So this guy never heard of Devil May Cry?
Played DMC 3SE, 4 & 5 for 100s of hours each as well as Oni around 20 years ago and then once every couple of years.
No game has ever had the *MELEE COMBAT* mastered as good as Oni did. When it comes to weapon Mastery, Trickster(using Weapons), etc; DMC is unbeatable; maybe God of War comes a bit close and other games like Prince of Persia, etc but NONE comes close to Oni's Melee combat mechanics; not even close
@@maddyx3711 How is it even not close? In fact, DMC far surpasses the complex melee combat mechanics of any games you have mentioned. Jesus the fact that you even mentioned God Of War is just laughable considering God Of War's combat mechanics are very simplistic compared to DMC
He made exception for games focused on melee, so that excludes most of Capcom and KOEI games already. Obviously Nioh would have better combat than a game where you shoot guns.
This game was so difficult that it still hurts when I think about it. The level with hallucinations was a nightmare.
It was the worst. Taking on 2 invisible ninjas in the same cramped room?
>abandonware
It hurts, bros