Live Audiophile Roundtable: Is the vinyl collection Rabbit Hole AVOIDABLE? + Midweek Record Reviews!
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- Опубліковано 26 бер 2024
- Please join your host Steve Westman and George Borden for a MIDWEEK record review plus a discussion on avoiding the vinyl collection "Rabbit Hole". Is it possible?
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As far as your rabbit hole or buyer's remorse. That is something that I rarely have. In collecting vinyl for over 40 years I've always been fairly judicious in what I buy and I try to be SURE first that it is something that I really like and will continue to listen to. I will say that recently thanks to some of Patrick's excellent recommendations, I picked up Mahogany Rush IV, Live, and Tales of the Unexpected, and also Ambrosia's first album. And ALL of them are absolutely excellent and I'm very glad he mentioned them.
So, no... no rabbit holes for me... 😊
The Cars Candy-O is definitely worth listening to a few times if you are a Cars fan. The songs you don't know showcase their writing and playing. Great stuff.
Oh yeah... For me personally and my taste (such as it is...) that was pretty much the last really strong Cars album. I probably need to revisit their later albums, but from what I recall their albums after Candy-O just started getting more and more bland without the innovation and punch of the first two. Like you mention, their writing and playing...
My Candy-O records came today. I ordered one for myself, one for a customer and the third for the shelf in the store to be sold at cost. They came in two deluxe cardboard mailers, in one FedEx envelope. Not dents, no dings, no bends. Candy-O is my favorite Cars record. I already had a first press US (no text), a second press US (sticker), a third press US (printed) as well as the recent 2017 ADA 2-LP reissue. This Rhino Hi-Fi pressing is truly superior to all the others. Dead flat, silent, dynamic. Money well spent. That said, why did they need to make the jacket 1/8” oversized. Getting it in a good VSS gatefold sleeve is a PITA.
A win. Yesssss.
Hi Steve, thankyou and George for another great show, love the team you have on each week, we learn so much from you all. I sell LP's and CD's at markets and tell people i meet about you guys. Would you consider doing a chat on Crowded House as they are about to drop a new LP and are doing some shows soon in the States, Neil has two of his sons in the band at the moment which is pretty cool. thanks' Steve. Kind regards from New Zealand. P.S. Beatles still big sellers at Markets.
Much much appreciated Brett. Glad you are enjoying the show. Thanks so much for letting people know about the show. Yes. Will discuss Crowded House on the show. Great band.
Heh, your mention of the price tag on that Traveling Wilburys album reminds me that just a few days ago I took out my Classic Records Zeppelin I that I haven't listened to in a few years. I bought it new when it came out and the price tag is still on the outer poly cover... $26 😁
Hey guys. Just found this video today. I can attest to 'rabbit holes'. I define them as the beginning of buying something in particular that's maybe in a 'series' or a sequence and then chasing the rest of the series. For example where The Beatles are concerned I've done it repeatedly with original Australian, UK, US 45's and the Picture Disc singles, then moved into original Australian EP's, OG Aussie stereo & mono LP'S, then compiling a set of UK's, completing my US LP's etc. My current one is the 1982 Japanese red vinyl Mono Collection....with OBI'S. This one started with a chance find by my son of "A Hard Day's Night" in that series while visiting Japan early last year. Then i found a couple more at record fair late last year. I have 4 of them out of 10. It's a slow progress but I'm not in a hurry to complete this. I even recently found a Phillipines pressing of The Beatles Collection BC13 Blue box. It was missing a "Revolver" but I found one. However It's unfortunately missing the Phillipines White Album (replaced by an Australian reissue), so there's another rabbit hole. I also collect Graphic Novels and its the same there. It can be never ending. But its a collector's thing. Cheers from Sydney Australia. 😊
Thanks for finding us. Hope you enjoy the show. I appreciate you sharing your rabbit home journey as well.
another great chat Steve/George. Here is my example of a Rabbit Hole, Beatles one as it happens. It started with the re-issue of the Red and Blue albums. I bought the "boxset". I wanted to hear the remix stereo red album but thought I'd get the blue one as well. I did a "comparison" of Strawberry Fields between, the 2023 reissue, the 2014 "all analogue" version and my 1973 original blue album. The 1973 was the best because I love that 60's type psychedelic stereo. Now, Strawberry Fields is not easy to find on albums, so I ended up next comparing to the version on UK Magical Mystery Tour album. That has Baby You're a Rich Man on it and that then got me thinking about that psychedelic period when they did all sorts of "unusual" stuff. That lead me to the Yellow Submarine original soundtrack album (PCS 7070). I loved the 4 middle tracks on side one and thought that Yellow Submarine and All You need is Love, didn't quite fit in with the others. So I started to look further and lo and behold......on The Beatles Mono Masters, side 5 has just those 4 tracks (Only a Northern Song, All Together Now), Hey Bulldog and It's All Too Much) and they sound fantastic. If only they could bring out an album with those 4 on one side, coupled with Baby You'r a Rich Man, Rain, Strawberry Fields, I'm The Walrus and You Know my Name (Look up the number). What a crazy album that would be!
Thanks so much for sharing this. Great info Jim. 👍
Heads up. The AT LP-120 gets cheaper with less features with every new generation. I don’t carry them anymore because the newest version is crap.
A good example of what George was talking about, the 'harmonics' or what he is listening for in audio quality, is the new Rhino Cars Candy-O album. On my system anyway and I posted more details on the Steve Hoffman Forums, with tall multi-driver open baffle dipole line arrays with 13 drivers a side, I can really hear differences in image and soundstage. The original US 'HTB' pressing and the new Rhino are very close, but on my system like what George was saying, if a cymbal is struck or a sharp guitar chord is hit, on the Rhino album there is more extension or you hear the sound extend or carry farther in the soundstage. Also, the overall image has more depth and 'movement' within the soundstage. Those kinds of things, if your system resolves those kinds of things well, are what you might look for in a superiour pressing.
I am 32. The iPod came out when I was in middle school. I never liked the idea of just buying a digital album on iTunes, so I would just buy singles to save money. Now it is so nice to just by an LP and just enjoy an album in its entirety. I enjoy looking at the album artwork and the ritual of playing record. I just feel so much more connected to the music than I ever did growing up.
Amazing. Thanks for sharing and watching the show. Your demographic is needed to grow the vinyl industry. Glad u are into vinyl. Love it. Keep spinning.
Wanted to chime in on the rabbit hole aspect (32 yo). I bought my first LP in 2007 - Highway Companion by Tom Petty and a handful of LP's from that time till 2010ish holding off because of college (lack of $, time, equipment, storage etc) but was heavy into CDs.
1. A big influence was seeing LPs and CD's alike I purchased as a kid and in college are now OOP and pricey. So I am more mindful when certain albums of artists I tend to consider in my top are coming out especially if it's a remaster. The issue is seeing multiple pressings within a few years come out of the same album and it not being clear who is mastering it etc
1.2 - That can cause buying duplicates or waiting too long just to find out it's worth getting but now being flipped for 2x (or more the issue price) - Master Of Reality by Black Sabbath I just ran into this with,. I bought my first copy in 2010 (Rhino Reissue) it has had a pressings in 2011 NEMS, 2015 BMG (several issues), 2016 (2012 digital remaster), 2020 BMG, 2021 Vertigo/BMG, 2022 (2012 remaster again but different plant), 2024 VMP/Rhino.
I assumed the VMP was going to be the same 2012 remaster just on colored vinyl, so I skipped it saw the reviews bought it from a flipper then of course they announced they were repressing it which doesn't always happen. Side note amazing pressing
2. Now my above experience I can't say is true for a majority of my experience, but some of us hold certain albums and artists higher than others therefore take a completionism approach to music, usually based on the sound of a particular record. But as was mentioned with the Butcher cover some times there are other factors. I for example am a huge Alice Cooper fan, and landed a orange straight label pressing of Pretties for You in NM condition for cheap despite having a green label pressing and rhino reissue both of which sound fine for an album that isn't close to being audiophile in any sense.
3. I think as with any hobby you will run the risk of missing releases and not having the option to buy them for a reasonable price down the road, sometimes you'll buy something at release just for it to be on sale a year later. It's always a risk no matter what and you have to plan accordingly. I can say that even though I don't enjoy dropping more money I do immensely enjoy my collection and being able to have some harder to find LP's and even CD's/digital format.
4. I can proudly say I own 6 different digital versions of Billion Dollar Babies (warner CD, 2001 deluxe, DVD-A, Blu Ray Quadio, AF SACD, 2024 Deluxe Edition), and 4 versions on LP (Original press, quad press, rocktober reissue, and 2024 edition) while saying I own many single copies of albums that I am just as happy having 1 of.
5. The big take away - as we know this type of mindset of completing collections or scarcity has been expanded to colored albums, or art work variations. That's where a lot of people my age and younger get focused on, I personally will not buy every color variant of an album but see that mentality in others. The few friends I have in this hobby I refer here to help get a grasp on what is and by extension isn't important. At the end of the day it is people spending their money however they want.
Great video as always Steve - sorry for the block of text but really wanted to share some input for others!
Wow. Really really appreciate this Steve. It is a hobby for all of us. Thanks so much for sharing your rabbit hole adventure. 🙏
Been listening to the audio via itunes, great stuff. Just wondering when do you usually do the live UA-cam vid?
Wednesday at 1 pm pst. But I will need to change the days and times after April 5. Will keep all posted.
As far as gear goes... Really, a big positive is the used market. There are numerous reputable sites where you can get some very nice equipment for less. I found both of my used all tube amps that way when after 40 years I finally wanted to jump into tubes. I found a lovely use Ayon Orion II all tube integrated Class 'A' amp which came out about 14 years ago new with a list price of about $4500 that a nice fellow had and I was able to get it for about $2700. While that was in the shop being fixed, I again was EXTREMELY lucky and stumbled upon an almost new barely used Cronus Magnum III all tube amp that is even more powerful (100 Class 'A' tube wpc as opposed to the Ayon's 60 wpc) It sells new for about $3500 and I got mine for about $2000. Also, on the Steve Hoffman Forums I was also very fortunate that some of the members there were upgrading and already had really top stuff, so I was able to pick up about $2000 retail worth of very highly rated Grover interconnects plus a couple of highly rated power cords for about $500 or so. DAMN good deals!
00:1 " *1st time 3 of those guys crossed that road in a van, the 4th, Pete Best, shouted out: "IT'S A HOUSE!* " See Bob Spitz, 'The Beatles' , 2006.
5 years before that, the 1st time 3 of them cut a shellac record together, 'That'll Be the Day,' the 'studio' turned out to be a backroom in a Liverpool terraced house on a main road. Now they drove all the way to London &: " *IT'S A HOUSE!* "
Detached, this time, which to any one of the 4 *except Pete Best* meant posh beyond their pay grade.
Whenever it's noted the 4 were nervous on the day, it's attributed to audition pressure. It's just as attributable to being in a detached house without using the servant's entrance. EMI started putting a lock on the refrigerator after 5 o'clock when working class scruffs from the North kept visiting. That's what astonished GH: mucho class symbolism in that fridge padlock.
So when historians tie in The Beatles with the Angry Young Men generation of theatre & cinema to create " *the New Aristocracy* " , from Richard Burton to John Lennon, from Albert Finney to George Harrison, from Tom Courtenay to Paul McCartney, from Michael Caine to Ringo Starr, that's what they mean. The guys who broke the padlock.
29:46 " *Why do you always talk about The Beatles..!* "
Malcolm echoes several ppl back in the day - - namely, the city of Liverpool. Liverpool has a long memory. As soon as they moved to London, the group had to tread lightly, & all went well until their response to the Cavern closure, a bad misstep. That put a wedge between the city & the group for decades, & the reaction motivated Liverpool City Council's neglect of their heritage by the time Mazz showed up with a camera. The only Beatle who fully escaped this stigma is the one who can still be seen, I kid you not, though sightings are getting rarer now, standing at a bus stop to catch a bus on the Wirral: Paul McCartney.
Ive been collecting vinyl less than a year and already have 5 or 6 albums in multiple copies. The rabbit hole is real
Yes it is.
Do you mind if I ask you Steve, because I had not realized that you bought ALL the Beatles Hot-Stampers, WOW! Have you listened and compared them and do you feel that at least in most of the cases the Hot-Stamper does sound the best? I'm just curious as to how well
Tom Port's people do in classifying those. And, of course they are all UK pressings, no US pressing is ever going to sound better whether an older tube-cut pressing or a newer HTM from the 'Blue Box' (or that era to be more accurate) So yes, they are of course going to be UK pressings. BUT... do you feel that Best Records is right in their choices or have you found other UK pressings, or perhaps the Horzu that you feel actually may sound better than the corresponding Hot-Stamper? I would honestly be VERY curious to know if you don't mind my asking...
Like George, I also look at Zeppelin as their whole catalog. Yes, each album has its own 'flavour', but I probably like them all equally. EXCEPT In Through the Out Door, where I really only like 2 songs 😊 BTW, since you were talking about Physical Graffiti and a fellow commented on your stream that the sound is 'rotten', we have to remember that that album is unique in that it was cobbled together from many different times and sources. A fellow on the Steve Hoffman Forums swore (and others also agreed) that the 1st Japanese pressing was the best. So, he kindly sold me a pristine copy. But, you know, my older Sam Feldman pressing I thought sounded way better much more punchy and super crankable. He kindly let me send it back to him. And, I've heard that even the Classic Records pressing is not necessarily that great. So, I think just my early Sam Feldman pressing is likely the best I'm going to get...
I'm lucky I have some friends that buy the higher end vinyl like Chad's UHQR 45 RPM reissues. With the exception of the AJA UHQR and Countdown To Ecstasy, I have no temptation to buy any of the new reissues.I have many OG albums and some excellent reissues where I know they improved on the original. Marquee Moon was the latest reissue I got, sounds great. I heard both Selling England and The Lamb Atlantic 75th 45RPM and compared to UK OG's with these re releases- and the QRP are the reference pressings to have now.
Yes. That's lucky. Otherwise as we both know the UHQRs will run ya. $300 CDN each.
I really like Zeppelin Presence. That is one of 3 of the Classic Records pressings of theirs that I have, and it sounds great!
I think I need the Classic records cut now.
@@stevewestman7774 AHA! About time the influencing goes the other way! 😁
Physical Graffiti is hands down without a doubt my favorite Zep record. 1.P.G. 2. LZ3 3. LZ4 4. LZ1 5. LZ2 6. HOTH
For me it's not how PG sounds as much as I grew listening to their first 4 albums so much I need to give it some more listens.
Wow! Wait, who? I've absolutely never heard of Noah Kahan. Which makes me wonder why people say "rock is dead" when someone I don't know has sold 15,000 concert seats!
Yes, speaker technology has advanced since 30 years ago. The biggest advancements have been in DSP
May I suggest that you spend some time when you have it and really listen to the Eurythmics album prior to the one you like, Sweet Dreams are Made of This. Bro, EVERY damn song on that album is a masterpiece, I think much stronger than Touch. And the sonics are amazing!
Yes. A masterpiece. Agreed.
Surprised ye never heard of Stewart Levine, he has worked with.... The Crusaders, Minnie Riperton, Lionel Richie, Simply Red, Hugh Masekela, Dr. John, Randy Crawford, B.B. King, Huey Lewis and the News, Patti Labelle, Sly Stone, Boy George, Peter Blakeley, Joe Cocker, Oleta Adams, Killing Joke, Boz Scaggs, Womack and Womack, David Sanborn, Brenda Russell, Lamont Dozier, Curiosity Killed the Cat, Aaron Neville, Everyday People, Jamie Cullum and The Marshall Tucker Band.
Thank you
More like "Things that make you say.......EWH"!
Hahaha
Sorry, but my 1979 George Piros LZ PG sounds fantastic.
I might need to jump down the rabbit hole 👍
I expect something more classy from the guy that wrote "I Wanna Be Your Underwear".
Hahaha
Well, Steve, Bryan Adams does a lot of yelling 'oh yeah!' and 'uh huh' so she must have been really amazing. THE WORST ROCK N ROLL RECORDS OF ALL TIME book thought out was about 1969. Ooooopppppsss!
Did one of the messages you flashed up say about The Beatles - “never heard them, never liked them”? Regardless that’s it’s The Beatles, if you dislike something you’ve never heard, watched or read then you’re a bellend.
Steve.. your microphone sounds crap,it comes and goes in volyme on my martin logan summit speakers, sounds like an old cassettetape🥺regards from sweden
It's an iPhone thing
page ego way too big, analog being done by a great mastering engineer, will never happen maybe after he passes tho
jimmy page is probably deaf from his live days.....jimmy likes digital artifacts....i like analog personally screw artist intent
Right!!!