Before watching the video i already know that VR helped immensely. I did a similar thing were i didnt have time or motivation to actually dryfire so i played Practisim VR every night. I'm a good shooter so i have no problems with recoil control or trigger press so my focus was on improving my eye-hand coordination and movement. I was surprised how well i did on the next IPSC competition after just a couple of weeks of playing/training
Hey man! Appreciate the comment. I think you're right in so far as VR is excellent for vision, transitions, stage planning, visualization etc. Still, of course, have to get out to live practice and traditional dry fire.
@@PolenarTactical definitely a great supplemental training aid. I'm thinking about get a into VR training but don't have the indoor room, and don't know what the rest of my apartment complex will think lol
Feels like the results aren't surprising in the sense that the game gave you experience with very specific aspects of sport shooting and the aspects it lacked are apparent when running it live. Big stage movements, recoil control (long splits), performance pressure, stamina and fatigue. It looks useful in the overall sense both from improving aspects of your shooting ability while also saving a substantial amount of time/money on ammunition. I am willing to spend for a system like this but I need better recoil fidelity first.
As an engineer, I would say it could be possible but they would have to separate the controller from the pistol component. They need a weighted slide which reciprocates at-speed when shooting.
@@mourneris These exist in enterprise training circles, but they're still cost prohibitive for the retail market. CO2 is a possible solution, but it is as inelegant as it is inefficient.
@@controlled-pairs Yeah, something with magnets and springs with a rechargeable battery would fit the bill but it's a lot of manufacturing cost for a niche product.
@@mourneris Something reciprocating still would have a net zero impulse integrated over time. That could work out quite differently in terms of biomechanics and muscle memory (yes, I know, it's not the muscles that remember) than emitting a projectile with impulse.
Yeah I noticed that in watching it back. It's subconscious, obviously. While I don't think that alone would negatively impact performance, I do think it's evidence of tension... Which of course does.
Hey sir. I really enjoyed this. You were the perfect test subject too. One USPSA match, 170k virtual rounds, next USPSA match. While your experience is anecdotal it is still telling of a few things I suspected. It's great for teaching index, acceptable sight picture, and transitions. Obviously it falls down on the recoil aspect of things. Overall this is the first "gimmicky" tool I have seen have a real world benefit. One thing you should start working on NOW, early in your shooting career, is your mental game. It's often overlooked and not exploited soon enough. You kept talking about over-confirming, forgetting your stage plan, and running into generally awkward situations on a stage. That can be chalked up to two things: the strength of your stage visualization and your confidence. I don't like pimping out my own stuff but if you have a look at my channel you'll see a podcast all about the mental game of shooting. You may find it helpful Happy to discuss more I just didn't want to overwhelm you. Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing your progress!
Appreciate your feedback! You're absolutely right. My shooting is improving quickly, but competitive shooting is a sport just like any other. The mental game is huge.
@reccemdown Visualization is the ability to picture a process in your mind. In this case, specifically, we are talking about memorizing the s t age plan in detail.
Ive been shooting USPSA for years at this point and something I noticed during your videos is a really sharp breath after shooting a position. It seems to me like you are holding your breath in these positions, this can cause fatigue by the end of a stage because you arent breathing for half the stage, also causes you to tense up and it can cause some issues. Just remember to breathe, it may not be causing issues now but it could later on and it wouldnt be a bad time to break the habit.
It'll be great to see your progress in USPSA. I am also a rookie, but I've been lucky to be squadded with multiple GMs at all of my matches. The biggest initial takeaways I've had were sticking to my stage plan and realizing time matters more than accuracy, within reason. If you haven't had a stage that required strong/weak hand only, I would 100% practice that so it doesn't throw you off. Great 2nd match! Don't forget to breathe!
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one setting up Oculus boundaries in my backyard and running through ACE drills while my neighbors are probably staring at me.
My roommate is a USPSA GM and had this to say about this video: "so our guy shot his first uspsa match, did a bunch of acevr, and shot another uspsa match I'm not gonna dismiss the practice he put in, and as long as it's obviously not fucking stupid training it'll pay off big he attributed a lot of his success to acevr reps, but all of that stuff is available with "normal" dryfire. Dude seems like he's paying attention to the shooting, practicing a reasonable amount, and is seeing results, as is often the case. at this point in his practical shooting, familiarity is king I heard a lot of comments about shot difficulty w/ partials and far targets, especially on field courses and choosing to shoot the 4 tux classifier far to near because "my grip would be more durable at the beginning [of the 8rd string]" indicate to me that he's really getting held back by the acevr handling of recoil which is to say, the visual bare-minimum simulation of recoil with no other feedback "I couldn't just jam the trigger twice and move on, so I over-confirmed and got scared" yeah man you got good at playing acevr, and the actual shooting hasn't translated all of the stages he identified as "playing to my strengths" were Stand & Deliver style stages with virtually no focal depth changes which is exactly what you do in acevr, you stare at a fixed focal depth in your vr headset you're losing what imo is the most crucial part in shooting after you have figured out gun handling
@@gorps good feedback and I agree with most of it. ACE has its place, for sure, but it's not a dry fire or live fire replacement. It's a great visualization and rehearsal tool.
It would be cool if they could make a controller just for a game like this that would simulate recoil..Im not sure how they would/could do this and I’m sure,even if they could,they couldn’t get it to match up perfectly to specific guns but I could still see it as a benefit
@@garrettferrell6821 There are quite a few airsoft guns that simulate recoil impulses pretty well (not perfect) with gas blowback and electric motors, so I think it would be possible.
When you make a mistake in USPSA your brain shuts down and you go into auto pilot during the reboot. The more you learn and shoot the better that will get.
Breathe homie. Holding during strings of fire affects your body a lot. Vision, fine motor function, and even your mental state (nerves) can be affected from not breathing
Great performance for your second match… And great analysis of the benefits of the VR tool. I’ve been debating if I should get it or not, and these kinds of videos are pushing me the words getting it. Thnx for sharing.
Very nice video. Have ordered the gun and waiting for it right now. Really fun following your progression and I would love to see more of these videos :)
Great job. You're super humble and a good shooter. Been watching your content for awhile and I was confused because I thought you had changed your channel name. That's not the case, and I've now subbed to both of your channels. Kinda smart with how UA-cam is with guns. Keep up the good work. I'm looking to enter competitions in my area as well just to get the trigger time and metrics.
Absolutely love Ace! Best dry fire investment ever. I started out with Mantis and a DryFireMag. Once I got Ace I never want to use those other 2. I’m 8 months in but only 47k rounds. But wow what a savings in ammo costs and it’s a ton of fun
Hey dude master class open shooter here, wow what a great performance for your 2nd match! Getting to a self diagnostic mind set is one of the hardest thing to understand. One concept to get the brain working is how do you get points and distance. Some stages standing and shooting is better off, but ultimately you need to get to your last position to finish the stage. Just some food for thought. Subscribing to watch you grow!
On the last stage, take the 2 poppers and hit the next paper while the popper activates the disappearing target. Sitting there waiting for the target to appear is "safe" but wastes time. Make that call from watching others shoot and see how long it takes to appear and is visible
There's all sorts of videos of computer simulator pilots beating real fighter pilots in the game. Then again the fighter and commercial pilots train on the computers as well, but that's a cost issue, and 22 ammo is a lot cheaper than a VR setup.
I can't shoot 22LR in my living room. Nor do I want to purchase and store 200k 22LR (the amount I've "fired" in VR in the last 9 months. I do have an F/A-18 cockpit in my game room, tho!
Don't know where you're getting ammo or vr setup stuff from, but from what I can find, 170,000 rounds would be over $10,000. Way more than even a really high end vr setup.
@@uncirtyne This is true, and the 22 ammo is not getting any cheaper, whereas the VR setup every year is less expensive. However, as someone who plays video games and shoots guns, I find it hard to belive the VR simulators would provide any help. The difficulty in shooting a gun is trigger pull and recoil anticipation. A flight simulator is more like 95% engineering, 5% intuition, so it's much more relevant to real flying. Plus, no one shoots 170,000 real rounds in 9 months, if even in 9 years, so I still think the 22 is cheaper. Of course many people have everything but the VR headset and the digital gun, but you also need to factor in electricity costs, not insignificant. At 25 cents per kilowatt, that can add up, especially with an RTX 4080 running on Intel. Now, if the digital gun provided a fully simulated recoil, and you turned the volume up, that would be very different. So the real problem is just fully simulating the activity. Like how we still don't have infinite 360 degree treadmills for the open world games, which might help with the nausea problem.
Hey! I know Im essentially a nobody on the internet but that first stage at the begining I think you could draw as you start moving, that way you could have had the gun up ready and runing early. It seems you moved and than drew the gun
me and my brother play ghosts of tabor in vr. I think its vastly increased my knowledge of how other firearms feel and operate . also i feel more swift with my own firearms, and the movements of grabbing mags, reloading and charging the weapon while trying to shoot a rival player That's firing back at you . I believe that playing vr you end up finding out what you would do in real life in certain situations you dont normally think about. tactically i have been able to add to my home defense plan and my confidence by playing GOT and seeing how different people move and operate. i have had lots of moments where i realize what i could do better in real life. plus its pretty fun to do everything else in the game. but i know for a fact my iron sights skills have tremendously increased, and my firearm reload time has improved since playing.
☝️this, gear fear is crutial. It will absolutely transfer over. Knowing you have a lot to lose in a vr game provides high cortisol / adrenaline and a demand to perform while having to be quick thinking. Getting my quest 3 soon 🤞
It kinda works, but the lack of any tactile feel when grabbing mags or shouldering a firearm just doesn't translate well for me. I don't shoot well in VR simply because I can't feel anything. I find airsoft more applicable for the scenarios you describe, such as reloads and someone actively shooting back at you. Nothing equates to the real deal, and everyone should find what works for them, but that is just my own opinion.
Funny this comes across my recommendations because I’ve got quite a lot of hours in VR shooters, specifically H3VR, and a few days ago I was with extended family and after mentioning my interest in airsoft, an uncle brought me into the backyard to mess with an airsoft pistol and I managed to shock everyone when I managed to hit some plates quick & easily
i have used VR to teach myself how to aim properly and transitions just with your standard VR shooters. love to see this being used as an actual tool. also im sure you know but be careful with the VR outside, if the sun hits the lense it will work like a magnifying glass and burn holes in your lense.
As many times that I have run through Pavlov's shoot house, there is no way I haven't improved my pistol shot. Which I would like to say I confirmed recently at a friend's house, just shooting targets with pistols. The only thing I can think that would help you/me improve even more, is simulated recoil from the pistol. The ProTubeVR ProVolver grip will do just that. It's not cheap, but it has to be more realistic, with the weight and recoil! I've thought about it, but it's almost the price of the Quest 3 itself, haha. Someday, maybe. Anyway, first time here, great video!
@@MrMattMagoo I have Protube's haptic rifle stock and the pro-volver. I still prefer the ace handsets for the ergo and grip. Building grip is more important to me than the 10% recoil I get from CO2 or haptic systems.
@@controlled-pairs Really? 10%? I was hoping it was lil more than that, haha. Welp, hmm... seems as thought there's still a market for an improvement then. And I had no idea this ACE was even a thing, let alone them making gun style holders like that for Quest controllers, but I'm all here for it!
hell yeah dude. awesome video. im coming up on 8 months of shooting with a dot, and i do 1-2 matches a month. im still over confirming my dot on target. REALLY hard habit to break.
I’m glad I seen this,I have ACE VR downloaded to my Quest 3..I need to get that gun controller,save me a lot of money training without costing a fortune in ammo..Im pretty impressed though,you done pretty damn good man..nice job
Thanks for sharing your experience! From this point on, do you plan on alternating between matches and ACE VR or will you shoot 170,000 rounds before the next match?
Appreciate it! I'll be competing more frequently. I already have two matches on the calendar over the next few weeks. I'll continue training in ACE as well as daily dry fire and monthly live fire practice.
First off...dude, don't put yourself down so much, you did great! Yes yes you have lots of obvious areas to improve, but that does *not* mean you should diminish your performance as a whole. At the very least I hope you're allowing yourself to feel proud, because you deserve to. And just as a quick comment on the whole breath control thing...yes it actually is a very important part of this whole thing and could bring a massive benefit to you once you get it down. You gotta remember, you're throwing your body left, right, and center usually over the span of half a minute. That takes a lot of energy, and thus a lot of oxygen! So proper breath control is extremely important, really for any cardio activity, but especially cardio under a lot of stress. Also, just as a warning...you could legit pass out if you don't control your breathing. In and of itself that's not *super* concerning...I just wouldn't want you to hit your head, especially on anything hard and solid like concrete. Let your brain have the oxygen it needs! lol
@@matthewdemarey4762 I'm proud of my progress, for sure! I'm just realistic about my goals and how far I have to go. I'm not upset about it. And while the breathing pattern likely impacts performance, I promise I'm not going to pass out lol.
@@controlled-pairs Watching it back a bit, I think it *sounds* worse than it actually is... It's honestly a lot more wheezing than nothing at all, which is, in fact, not likely I'd say to result in someone passing out... That's my bad; saw an oppertunity to share some knowledge and didn't really think twice. Sorry about that! But yeah, congrats! It's nice to see VR actually being of *some* use. Though I honestly can't see it needing all that much more than some sort of simulated recoil system. Get that, some sort of modular controller to mimic the general shapes of different guns, *maybe* some weights if ya wanna go that extra bit, and I'd go so far as to say you'd have a perfect at-home practice range. Eh...one can dream. lol
I'm not sure you're aware, although I'm sure you've heard it now a thousand times, but don't use your quest headset outdoors if you can avoid it, the sunlight can destroy the LCD screens.
Hopefully ace xr allows something like provolver which has recoil but unsure if the impulse is immediate or even realistic as I haven't tried it and it's bluetooth which usually always has latency.
I use Smokeless Range. Not because it's a better solution, but it was at one time the only solution for this sort of training. AceVR didn't exist when I started.
@@controlled-pairs Nice! Yeah, typically people are pretty cool there. The occasional rules lawyer but not bad! I got an action steel match I’m going to in Volusia this Sunday if you’re free.
It was invaluable for developing an index, for sure. And to be totally fair, I've been shooting for years and served in the military for over a decade, but competition shooting is a whole new ballgame. I neglected pistol for years and regret it. Action pistol is a blast and really elevates all other disciplines.
Perfectionists and highly analytical people often over confirm their dots and running rmr's on handguns definitely has a steeper learning curve for them as they are fighting their natural inclination and sub-conscience self. I know this because I am the same way and struggle with this as well.
I'm likely going to do this because my home range is 1.5 hours away (one way!), and ammunition is expensive as hell at the kind of volume that I need to be shooting. I've tried dry fire, but without being able to measure where my 'shots' are actually landing, or measure my times--or have any stages set up in my home--it hasn't felt effective. This seems like it could bridge that gap, and get me better at things like Texas Stars, spinners, plate racks, hitting alphas/k-zone. and shooting while actively moving One thing I would like to eventually see--and this would be on the developers--are different 'guns' (e.g., Glocks, CZs, etc.). My preferred pistol has a grip angle very similar to a Staccato, but if I ever transition to a Glock or CZ Shadow 2, it will be different, and the difference is going to slow me down for confirmation of aim point. I would *also* like to see them release a carbine controller, and program stages to be accurate for 2-gun. While my carbine shooting is generally better than my pistol (because duh, it's easier to shoot a rifle), I don't have a reasonable way to practice movement while shooting, which is common in PCSL.
The real question is how good you would have done if you dry fired with such intensity instead ;). I bet better. Not to critique ace vr, i feel its still valid choice for one reason alone - its more fun and more compelling to do then dry fire. And it sure as hell beats sitting on the couch because dry fire is too boring. Just dont give up on normal dry fire for gimmicks, i tried a bit of those and every single one left me with this conclusion - yeah they do make the process more fun, thus making it more likely you will train at all, but none of them bumped efficiency over regular dry fire for me.
Shooting near to far also makes more sense for a real life situation, since the probability of the closest opponent being more of a threat is higher. I know that its not the point of the video and that irl situations werent even brought up, but i believe that those things become a habbit, so its better to have a more practical one.
id say you breathing is holding u back either it being on purpose which is what it sounds like or automatic. your breathing is in-line with your aiming and shooting for sure when u fill up, but not when u exhale. im not an expert i just shoot alot and not being able to shoot on peaks and lows of your breathing is extra time while not hyper ventalating from breathing too much for the shots. then the target picking, but thats just practice for flow engagement.
Fellow shadow systems enjoyer and M class CO/PCC shooter here. I stsrted shooting in 2020 and put a fair amount of time into Practisim VR, which is/was fairlu similar in concept to Ace. I think one of thr biggest shortcomings of VR stuff compared to conventional dryfire ans shooting practice is that everything is on one focal plane. In real life, near to far and far to near focal distance shifts are a huge part of performance. Training with an emphasis on vision is not as feasible in VR. Another aspect of this is thay focusing on smaller parts of the target than just "brown" or "A zone" is critical for consistent accuracy, and its difficult to get this in VR with relatively low display dpi, simple textures, and pervasive anti-aliasing making focusing your eyes on indivual pasters, parts of the perf, etx.
Agreed, I wish the quest 3 had the clarity and FOV of modern PC headsets from the likes of pimax, but they just don't have the horsepower yet as a standalone to do this ace xr over cabled headset would be annoying.
Why wait until you get to your first position to draw the gun? If you’ve got it out and up, you’ll be firing sooner. Good thing to practice in dry fire
this is kinda my way of doing things since i dont have any real guns at the moment to train with, although i use h3vr and have shot probably 4 million rounds (if you include all my other goofy stuff i do)
I won a USPSA match in Arizona, placed first out of 45+ shooters. Beat a couple of Masters to earn that nice 1st place. I attribute some of my success to the silly time trials in Arma 3 which mimic IPSC/3-Gun. I didn't do it in VR, I did it using a mouse and keyboard lol. So how and why did it help? Because USPSA (or any form of practical shooting) isn't even that much about shooting, it's about knowing how to cut time as you traverse a stage. Which is something the time trials in Arma 3 taught me... how to cut fractions of a second here and there. Since you're playing a game that is basically extremely close to a USPSA match, I think you just learned to game the system (aka stage planning) and that helped you do better. Watching from your video... your recoil control and gun handling isn't good. Had you actually dry fired 170,000 times in real life with your pistol, I think you would have had MUCH MORE success than 170,000 VR rounds. Who knows, as the VR guns become more realistic in feel and recoil control, this might change, but it's kinda clear to see that it had little positive effect on you. I just know there's tons of guys out there, including myself, who have had leaps in improvement with a FRACTION of your VR rounds with simply dry fire and even less live fire.
@@UrbanDefenseSystems I dry fire every day for about half an hour and shoot live at least twice a month, usually about 250 rounds per session. Dry fire doesn't improve recoil control. My recoil control in this match was ass but my gun handling was fine (obvious can always be better, humility is important). I agree that one of the affordances of virtual training for any sport is visualization. I think it's also true that ACE, specifically, is effective at developing not just stage planning/gamification of practical shooting, but vision/transitions/fine motor skills/index etc. Do you have a match video anywhere so I could see how you stage plan?
@@controlled-pairs My suggestion for you then... Is to do the singles/doubles drill. And work on your support hand grip strength and maintain the focus while dry firing. I wasted what was like around a year of shitty dry fire practice that didn't translate to being a better shooter because I did it without focusing on the fundamentals that are actually conducive to shooting. All I can do is send you a link to my 1st place win on Practiscore if you doubt my claim, though trust me, a 1st place match win, even in a state like Arizona means nothing in a Level 1 match. Is there any way to DM you?
@@UrbanDefenseSystems I'm aware winning a level 1 match isn't much of a flex. Was just interested in seeing you shoot. Lots of folks have provided excellent feedback and I'm grateful for it. Your feedback was just different, so it would have been cool to see the skill level of the person providing it. I shoot doubles every range session. I lift 4 days a week, lots of barbell work. Will continue to work on it. Maybe I should just buy a 2011 or a steel framed CO gun! (I'm not)
@@controlled-pairs I tried going that route by the way. I have a lot of different pistols in my quest of chasing "recoil based performance" within carry optics, and let me tell you, it's an expensive endeavor that wasn't worth it haha. I hope I can recuperate some of those losses selling the guns back. If my feedback was different, then I take it as a compliment. There's guys who are much weaker than us who have better recoil control and I personally think it's more to do with a constant mental focus of strong support hand grip, shooting the sights (vision focused) and perhaps even grip-based training (look into Captains of Crush grip trainers). I'm sure you know who Ben Stoeger is and you probably follow his channel, but if you don't, take a look at his videos detailing how grip isn't that important after a decent connection to the pistol. That's an alternative approach to shooting that honestly I am finding better results using. The overly muscling of the pistol was detrimental for me as a shooter. Now I just kinda let it do its thing within reason and shoot the sights with different levels of confirmation.
It's one of ACE VR's products. It's $200 and the game it's used with requires a subscription of $20 per month. It's a bad deal no matter how you look at it.
@@controlled-pairs You gotta try harder deflection than that lmao. But no, it's more that this type of "competition" is kind of a waste of time. It's set up as if it is trying to train "tactics" like breaching and stuff except it doesn't do that, most of the time there's no one involved who has actual practical knowledge or experience so bad training habits cannot be addressed, and the people doing it do it part time and with no real negative repercussions for failure. And a lot of other things too, point being it cannot accomplish what seems to be its purpose. So why do it then? If you enjoy shooting, why not just shoot normally? I am curious if you think it actually accomplishes anything or has some value.
@@jimmydesouza4375 Forgive me for deflecting, I didn't want to take the bait. (this is me taking it) It's a shooting competition, not a tactical competition. The goal is to shoot fast and accurately. It's a game or sport like any other. No one is pretending that doing this will make you an operator lol. It will absolutely make you a better shooter, though. And to your final series of questions: Why do it? - To compete. To have fun. To get better. If you enjoy shooting, why not just shoot normally? - This is normal shooting. Does it accomplish anything or have some value? - Yes. Experience in sport and competitive success is objectively a good thing. If you value being good at shooting, then being good at shooting is a good thing... and good competitive shooters are good at shooting. As an aside, If I wanted to train tactics like (lol) "breaching and stuff," I'd do it at work, where I've been doing it for well over a decade and five deployments to combat. Despite my professional experience, I encounter civilian shooters who can outclass me at the range every time I go to a competition.
@@controlled-pairs That you have tried to completely shift “pseudo killhouse training” into it being just a sport suggests you hold an opinion other than what you state. Since you are a combat very, does the wanna be milsperg Walmart operator type that this sport is full of not sickens you? If you are a vet you at least have an excuse to do it though.
@@jimmydesouza4375That you believe this resembles, or attempts to resemble, tactical training in any way is evidence of your naivety. Well trained and well armed civilians do not disgust or intimidate me, they are the reason we are still free.
Anyone have a good VR practice game for the meta quest 3? New to both worlds really but VR might able to help train those that cannot afford the crazy ammo prices!
Diamond. But I'm a sample size of one and the ACE classification system is imperfect. Would be interesting to see how the data correlates with USPSA classifications across the population.
@@controlled-pairs oh sorry, i mispoke, i meant money :-D how much does it cost to train like that compared to buying ammo. You can even have 22. pistol, would be like VR gun i guess.
@@bitkarek I've shot 170k+ rounds in VR since last fall. I could easily do 1k rounds a day. No chance I could afford that (even with 22lr) in live ammo. It's a time saver in that my range is an hour from the house and I can only get out there once or twice a month between work and family. Plus all the drills are automatically scored, you get analytics and data about where you stack up compared to your peers etc. It's not better than live fire or dry fire, just a different approach that's valuable as a supplement rather than a replacement.
Meh. I've got a couple of spares. I've done it for months without issue and used Quest 2 outdoors many times as well. Is it a risk? Sure. Worth it? 1000%
What? Why not? His lenses are covered by the headset being ON his face? Unless the front camera's are somehow just as sensitive...which I mean...yeah that sucks if they are -3-
For the love of God. Don't call them deltas. It's a b c d it's not that hard you've been doing sense 1st grade schooling stop trying to be cool by overcomplecating simple language
Looks like you shot really good dude for only being your second match. I’m sure nerves were setting in pretty hard at first man. But nice to see a sim like ACE helping with progression. 🫡🇺🇸
Before watching the video i already know that VR helped immensely.
I did a similar thing were i didnt have time or motivation to actually dryfire so i played Practisim VR every night.
I'm a good shooter so i have no problems with recoil control or trigger press so my focus was on improving my eye-hand coordination and movement. I was surprised how well i did on the next IPSC competition after just a couple of weeks of playing/training
Hey man! Appreciate the comment. I think you're right in so far as VR is excellent for vision, transitions, stage planning, visualization etc. Still, of course, have to get out to live practice and traditional dry fire.
@@controlled-pairs bingo
it's not a replacement, it's and added value
oh hey Žiga, do we have the same video suggestions? ❤
@@bitkarek haha, it seems so
@@PolenarTactical definitely a great supplemental training aid. I'm thinking about get a into VR training but don't have the indoor room, and don't know what the rest of my apartment complex will think lol
Feels like the results aren't surprising in the sense that the game gave you experience with very specific aspects of sport shooting and the aspects it lacked are apparent when running it live. Big stage movements, recoil control (long splits), performance pressure, stamina and fatigue. It looks useful in the overall sense both from improving aspects of your shooting ability while also saving a substantial amount of time/money on ammunition. I am willing to spend for a system like this but I need better recoil fidelity first.
Recoil impulse would be a game changer.
As an engineer, I would say it could be possible but they would have to separate the controller from the pistol component. They need a weighted slide which reciprocates at-speed when shooting.
@@mourneris These exist in enterprise training circles, but they're still cost prohibitive for the retail market. CO2 is a possible solution, but it is as inelegant as it is inefficient.
@@controlled-pairs Yeah, something with magnets and springs with a rechargeable battery would fit the bill but it's a lot of manufacturing cost for a niche product.
@@mourneris Something reciprocating still would have a net zero impulse integrated over time. That could work out quite differently in terms of biomechanics and muscle memory (yes, I know, it's not the muscles that remember) than emitting a projectile with impulse.
I bet the neighbors are looking out the window like “what the hell is he out there doing”😂
Won the shooting game at the fair. Thank you contractors showdown!!!
You're not breathing dude.
It isn't an ELR rifle.
That's stress pressure you don't need.
Yeah I noticed that in watching it back. It's subconscious, obviously. While I don't think that alone would negatively impact performance, I do think it's evidence of tension... Which of course does.
Hey sir. I really enjoyed this. You were the perfect test subject too. One USPSA match, 170k virtual rounds, next USPSA match. While your experience is anecdotal it is still telling of a few things I suspected. It's great for teaching index, acceptable sight picture, and transitions. Obviously it falls down on the recoil aspect of things. Overall this is the first "gimmicky" tool I have seen have a real world benefit.
One thing you should start working on NOW, early in your shooting career, is your mental game. It's often overlooked and not exploited soon enough. You kept talking about over-confirming, forgetting your stage plan, and running into generally awkward situations on a stage. That can be chalked up to two things: the strength of your stage visualization and your confidence. I don't like pimping out my own stuff but if you have a look at my channel you'll see a podcast all about the mental game of shooting. You may find it helpful
Happy to discuss more I just didn't want to overwhelm you. Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing your progress!
Appreciate your feedback! You're absolutely right. My shooting is improving quickly, but competitive shooting is a sport just like any other. The mental game is huge.
New shooter here, what do you mean by stage visualization?
@reccemdown Visualization is the ability to picture a process in your mind. In this case, specifically, we are talking about memorizing the s t age plan in detail.
Saul kirsch has written a book about it: Thinking practical shooting. Very helpful for the mental game
Dude 7th out of
60 is Fkn awesome keep up the great work 🤘🏼
Ive been shooting USPSA for years at this point and something I noticed during your videos is a really sharp breath after shooting a position. It seems to me like you are holding your breath in these positions, this can cause fatigue by the end of a stage because you arent breathing for half the stage, also causes you to tense up and it can cause some issues. Just remember to breathe, it may not be causing issues now but it could later on and it wouldnt be a bad time to break the habit.
It'll be great to see your progress in USPSA. I am also a rookie, but I've been lucky to be squadded with multiple GMs at all of my matches. The biggest initial takeaways I've had were sticking to my stage plan and realizing time matters more than accuracy, within reason. If you haven't had a stage that required strong/weak hand only, I would 100% practice that so it doesn't throw you off. Great 2nd match! Don't forget to breathe!
Breathe my brother! Otherwise, super cool to see how you transitioned from VR to IRL! 👊🏼
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one setting up Oculus boundaries in my backyard and running through ACE drills while my neighbors are probably staring at me.
My roommate is a USPSA GM and had this to say about this video:
"so our guy shot his first uspsa match, did a bunch of acevr, and shot another uspsa match
I'm not gonna dismiss the practice he put in, and as long as it's obviously not fucking stupid training it'll pay off big
he attributed a lot of his success to acevr reps, but all of that stuff is available with "normal" dryfire. Dude seems like he's paying attention to the shooting, practicing a reasonable amount, and is seeing results, as is often the case.
at this point in his practical shooting, familiarity is king
I heard a lot of comments about shot difficulty w/ partials and far targets, especially on field courses
and choosing to shoot the 4 tux classifier far to near because "my grip would be more durable at the beginning [of the 8rd string]"
indicate to me that he's really getting held back by the acevr handling of recoil
which is to say, the visual bare-minimum simulation of recoil with no other feedback
"I couldn't just jam the trigger twice and move on, so I over-confirmed and got scared"
yeah man you got good at playing acevr, and the actual shooting hasn't translated
all of the stages he identified as "playing to my strengths" were Stand & Deliver style stages with virtually no focal depth changes
which is exactly what you do in acevr, you stare at a fixed focal depth in your vr headset
you're losing what imo is the most crucial part in shooting after you have figured out gun handling
@@gorps good feedback and I agree with most of it. ACE has its place, for sure, but it's not a dry fire or live fire replacement. It's a great visualization and rehearsal tool.
It would be cool if they could make a controller just for a game like this that would simulate recoil..Im not sure how they would/could do this and I’m sure,even if they could,they couldn’t get it to match up perfectly to specific guns but I could still see it as a benefit
@@garrettferrell6821 There are quite a few airsoft guns that simulate recoil impulses pretty well (not perfect) with gas blowback and electric motors, so I think it would be possible.
When you make a mistake in USPSA your brain shuts down and you go into auto pilot during the reboot. The more you learn and shoot the better that will get.
Fudds gunna be baffled by this one
Don't let 00Shawn see this, he wouldn't know what to do with it.
@@MrJustinOtis Fudd final boss
@@mcgroom8515 💯 %
Great job. I'm a new shooter. I get excited when I get 3 hits in a row at 25 yards taking 5 seconds per shot haha.
Breathe homie. Holding during strings of fire affects your body a lot. Vision, fine motor function, and even your mental state (nerves) can be affected from not breathing
Great performance for your second match… And great analysis of the benefits of the VR tool. I’ve been debating if I should get it or not, and these kinds of videos are pushing me the words getting it. Thnx for sharing.
Very nice video. Have ordered the gun and waiting for it right now. Really fun following your progression and I would love to see more of these videos :)
Great job. You're super humble and a good shooter. Been watching your content for awhile and I was confused because I thought you had changed your channel name. That's not the case, and I've now subbed to both of your channels. Kinda smart with how UA-cam is with guns. Keep up the good work. I'm looking to enter competitions in my area as well just to get the trigger time and metrics.
Thanks for updating us on your progress with using this as a training tool. I’m still considering getting it
Glad it was helpful! ACE has been a blast and clearly valuable.
Absolutely love Ace! Best dry fire investment ever. I started out with Mantis and a DryFireMag. Once I got Ace I never want to use those other 2. I’m 8 months in but only 47k rounds. But wow what a savings in ammo costs and it’s a ton of fun
What about airsoft
@@MrJello8bwnot accurate enough, but you do learn taking cover, running with a gun and certain tactics
Hey dude master class open shooter here, wow what a great performance for your 2nd match! Getting to a self diagnostic mind set is one of the hardest thing to understand. One concept to get the brain working is how do you get points and distance. Some stages standing and shooting is better off, but ultimately you need to get to your last position to finish the stage. Just some food for thought. Subscribing to watch you grow!
@@johnmunro8319 great feedback. Appreciate you, dude.
On the last stage, take the 2 poppers and hit the next paper while the popper activates the disappearing target. Sitting there waiting for the target to appear is "safe" but wastes time. Make that call from watching others shoot and see how long it takes to appear and is visible
100% I think I spoke to that a bit.
Will definitely look into the program once i get the chance. Great performance during that competition! 👌
Appreciate you 🤘
Excellent result! Congratulations!
This was a very interesting video. Thanks for posting
There's all sorts of videos of computer simulator pilots beating real fighter pilots in the game. Then again the fighter and commercial pilots train on the computers as well, but that's a cost issue, and 22 ammo is a lot cheaper than a VR setup.
I can't shoot 22LR in my living room. Nor do I want to purchase and store 200k 22LR (the amount I've "fired" in VR in the last 9 months.
I do have an F/A-18 cockpit in my game room, tho!
Don't know where you're getting ammo or vr setup stuff from, but from what I can find, 170,000 rounds would be over $10,000. Way more than even a really high end vr setup.
@@uncirtyne This is true, and the 22 ammo is not getting any cheaper, whereas the VR setup every year is less expensive. However, as someone who plays video games and shoots guns, I find it hard to belive the VR simulators would provide any help. The difficulty in shooting a gun is trigger pull and recoil anticipation. A flight simulator is more like 95% engineering, 5% intuition, so it's much more relevant to real flying. Plus, no one shoots 170,000 real rounds in 9 months, if even in 9 years, so I still think the 22 is cheaper. Of course many people have everything but the VR headset and the digital gun, but you also need to factor in electricity costs, not insignificant. At 25 cents per kilowatt, that can add up, especially with an RTX 4080 running on Intel.
Now, if the digital gun provided a fully simulated recoil, and you turned the volume up, that would be very different. So the real problem is just fully simulating the activity. Like how we still don't have infinite 360 degree treadmills for the open world games, which might help with the nausea problem.
Hey! I know Im essentially a nobody on the internet but that first stage at the begining I think you could draw as you start moving, that way you could have had the gun up ready and runing early. It seems you moved and than drew the gun
me and my brother play ghosts of tabor in vr. I think its vastly increased my knowledge of how other firearms feel and operate . also i feel more swift with my own firearms, and the movements of grabbing mags, reloading and charging the weapon while trying to shoot a rival player That's firing back at you . I believe that playing vr you end up finding out what you would do in real life in certain situations you dont normally think about. tactically i have been able to add to my home defense plan and my confidence by playing GOT and seeing how different people move and operate. i have had lots of moments where i realize what i could do better in real life. plus its pretty fun to do everything else in the game. but i know for a fact my iron sights skills have tremendously increased, and my firearm reload time has improved since playing.
☝️this, gear fear is crutial. It will absolutely transfer over. Knowing you have a lot to lose in a vr game provides high cortisol / adrenaline and a demand to perform while having to be quick thinking. Getting my quest 3 soon 🤞
Definitely gets the adrenaline going !
It kinda works, but the lack of any tactile feel when grabbing mags or shouldering a firearm just doesn't translate well for me. I don't shoot well in VR simply because I can't feel anything. I find airsoft more applicable for the scenarios you describe, such as reloads and someone actively shooting back at you. Nothing equates to the real deal, and everyone should find what works for them, but that is just my own opinion.
@@killasjanitor I agree airsoft is better for training, but the vr comes in handy for when you are home and cant go airsofting
Nice write up man! I’ll see ya on the ACE boards ! 😀
Amazing progress! Well done
Thank you!
Funny this comes across my recommendations because I’ve got quite a lot of hours in VR shooters, specifically H3VR, and a few days ago I was with extended family and after mentioning my interest in airsoft, an uncle brought me into the backyard to mess with an airsoft pistol and I managed to shock everyone when I managed to hit some plates quick & easily
i have used VR to teach myself how to aim properly and transitions just with your standard VR shooters. love to see this being used as an actual tool. also im sure you know but be careful with the VR outside, if the sun hits the lense it will work like a magnifying glass and burn holes in your lense.
Only the lenses inside the headset, so if you put it on and off inside you're totally fine
As many times that I have run through Pavlov's shoot house, there is no way I haven't improved my pistol shot. Which I would like to say I confirmed recently at a friend's house, just shooting targets with pistols. The only thing I can think that would help you/me improve even more, is simulated recoil from the pistol. The ProTubeVR ProVolver grip will do just that. It's not cheap, but it has to be more realistic, with the weight and recoil! I've thought about it, but it's almost the price of the Quest 3 itself, haha. Someday, maybe. Anyway, first time here, great video!
@@MrMattMagoo I have Protube's haptic rifle stock and the pro-volver. I still prefer the ace handsets for the ergo and grip. Building grip is more important to me than the 10% recoil I get from CO2 or haptic systems.
@@controlled-pairs Really? 10%? I was hoping it was lil more than that, haha. Welp, hmm... seems as thought there's still a market for an improvement then. And I had no idea this ACE was even a thing, let alone them making gun style holders like that for Quest controllers, but I'm all here for it!
hell yeah dude. awesome video. im coming up on 8 months of shooting with a dot, and i do 1-2 matches a month. im still over confirming my dot on target. REALLY hard habit to break.
I’m glad I seen this,I have ACE VR downloaded to my Quest 3..I need to get that gun controller,save me a lot of money training without costing a fortune in ammo..Im pretty impressed though,you done pretty damn good man..nice job
I've been shooting in VR since 2017. Yes, it works.
More videos of these match/stage breakdowns! 🙌🏻
More to come!
Before watching the video I must recommend H3VR for how fun it is.
Great Job and great video … keep it up
Vr is good for getting the motions down but nothing beats real world experience
@@richardbaker308 well yeah. But I can't shoot 9mm in my garage.
Thanks for sharing your experience! From this point on, do you plan on alternating between matches and ACE VR or will you shoot 170,000 rounds before the next match?
Appreciate it! I'll be competing more frequently. I already have two matches on the calendar over the next few weeks. I'll continue training in ACE as well as daily dry fire and monthly live fire practice.
Loved the video. Wondering what the weird compression effects are on the ground near the bottom of the screen. Somewhat distracting.
First off...dude, don't put yourself down so much, you did great! Yes yes you have lots of obvious areas to improve, but that does *not* mean you should diminish your performance as a whole. At the very least I hope you're allowing yourself to feel proud, because you deserve to.
And just as a quick comment on the whole breath control thing...yes it actually is a very important part of this whole thing and could bring a massive benefit to you once you get it down. You gotta remember, you're throwing your body left, right, and center usually over the span of half a minute. That takes a lot of energy, and thus a lot of oxygen! So proper breath control is extremely important, really for any cardio activity, but especially cardio under a lot of stress.
Also, just as a warning...you could legit pass out if you don't control your breathing. In and of itself that's not *super* concerning...I just wouldn't want you to hit your head, especially on anything hard and solid like concrete. Let your brain have the oxygen it needs! lol
@@matthewdemarey4762 I'm proud of my progress, for sure! I'm just realistic about my goals and how far I have to go. I'm not upset about it.
And while the breathing pattern likely impacts performance, I promise I'm not going to pass out lol.
@@controlled-pairs Watching it back a bit, I think it *sounds* worse than it actually is... It's honestly a lot more wheezing than nothing at all, which is, in fact, not likely I'd say to result in someone passing out... That's my bad; saw an oppertunity to share some knowledge and didn't really think twice. Sorry about that!
But yeah, congrats! It's nice to see VR actually being of *some* use. Though I honestly can't see it needing all that much more than some sort of simulated recoil system. Get that, some sort of modular controller to mimic the general shapes of different guns, *maybe* some weights if ya wanna go that extra bit, and I'd go so far as to say you'd have a perfect at-home practice range.
Eh...one can dream. lol
I'm not sure you're aware, although I'm sure you've heard it now a thousand times, but don't use your quest headset outdoors if you can avoid it, the sunlight can destroy the LCD screens.
Hopefully ace xr allows something like provolver which has recoil but unsure if the impulse is immediate or even realistic as I haven't tried it and it's bluetooth which usually always has latency.
I use Smokeless Range. Not because it's a better solution, but it was at one time the only solution for this sort of training. AceVR didn't exist when I started.
Hope Ace is coming to Pico too later...
this is kickass
I did this the other way round 😂
Sounds like you're holding your breath during your strings of fire, work on breathing while shooting, will help your stamina
Is this Port Malabar?
Haven't been but I've been thinking of making the drive up for a match.
@@sebastianborberg It is! I've been out there for a few matches now. Solid group of shooters and great stages 🤘
@@controlled-pairs I’ll head up there one of these days then haha. I’m pretty far south so I usually just shoot Deep 50 and OK Corral
This looks like the same range I go to...is this Port Malabar Rifle Pistol Club?
@@SldgeHammr It was! It was an awesome match. Solid people.
@@controlled-pairs Nice! Yeah, typically people are pretty cool there. The occasional rules lawyer but not bad! I got an action steel match I’m going to in Volusia this Sunday if you’re free.
My home range! Very cool
Great transitions for a novice shooter! It also appears that the simulations aided in developing your dot tracking.
It was invaluable for developing an index, for sure. And to be totally fair, I've been shooting for years and served in the military for over a decade, but competition shooting is a whole new ballgame.
I neglected pistol for years and regret it. Action pistol is a blast and really elevates all other disciplines.
Perfectionists and highly analytical people often over confirm their dots and running rmr's on handguns definitely has a steeper learning curve for them as they are fighting their natural inclination and sub-conscience self. I know this because I am the same way and struggle with this as well.
I'm likely going to do this because my home range is 1.5 hours away (one way!), and ammunition is expensive as hell at the kind of volume that I need to be shooting. I've tried dry fire, but without being able to measure where my 'shots' are actually landing, or measure my times--or have any stages set up in my home--it hasn't felt effective. This seems like it could bridge that gap, and get me better at things like Texas Stars, spinners, plate racks, hitting alphas/k-zone. and shooting while actively moving
One thing I would like to eventually see--and this would be on the developers--are different 'guns' (e.g., Glocks, CZs, etc.). My preferred pistol has a grip angle very similar to a Staccato, but if I ever transition to a Glock or CZ Shadow 2, it will be different, and the difference is going to slow me down for confirmation of aim point. I would *also* like to see them release a carbine controller, and program stages to be accurate for 2-gun. While my carbine shooting is generally better than my pistol (because duh, it's easier to shoot a rifle), I don't have a reasonable way to practice movement while shooting, which is common in PCSL.
@@PiercedRivetHead they have Sigs and Staccatos so far. I'm sure we'll see more handsets.
The real question is how good you would have done if you dry fired with such intensity instead ;). I bet better.
Not to critique ace vr, i feel its still valid choice for one reason alone - its more fun and more compelling to do then dry fire. And it sure as hell beats sitting on the couch because dry fire is too boring.
Just dont give up on normal dry fire for gimmicks, i tried a bit of those and every single one left me with this conclusion - yeah they do make the process more fun, thus making it more likely you will train at all, but none of them bumped efficiency over regular dry fire for me.
I dry fire daily for 30 minutes +
Shooting near to far also makes more sense for a real life situation, since the probability of the closest opponent being more of a threat is higher. I know that its not the point of the video and that irl situations werent even brought up, but i believe that those things become a habbit, so its better to have a more practical one.
Great stuff
id say you breathing is holding u back either it being on purpose which is what it sounds like or automatic.
your breathing is in-line with your aiming and shooting for sure when u fill up, but not when u exhale.
im not an expert i just shoot alot and not being able to shoot on peaks and lows of your breathing is extra time while not hyper ventalating from breathing too much for the shots.
then the target picking, but thats just practice for flow engagement.
You did great. It’s not easy
Due to bonelabs realistic weapons mechanics i use it to train sense i dont uave any close gun ranges around here
What did you use to film the life fire competition? It's almost like seeing through your eye.
Instan360 Go3S then did the tracking in post.
Thanks!
Fellow shadow systems enjoyer and M class CO/PCC shooter here. I stsrted shooting in 2020 and put a fair amount of time into Practisim VR, which is/was fairlu similar in concept to Ace. I think one of thr biggest shortcomings of VR stuff compared to conventional dryfire ans shooting practice is that everything is on one focal plane. In real life, near to far and far to near focal distance shifts are a huge part of performance. Training with an emphasis on vision is not as feasible in VR. Another aspect of this is thay focusing on smaller parts of the target than just "brown" or "A zone" is critical for consistent accuracy, and its difficult to get this in VR with relatively low display dpi, simple textures, and pervasive anti-aliasing making focusing your eyes on indivual pasters, parts of the perf, etx.
Agreed, I wish the quest 3 had the clarity and FOV of modern PC headsets from the likes of pimax, but they just don't have the horsepower yet as a standalone to do this ace xr over cabled headset would be annoying.
Why wait until you get to your first position to draw the gun? If you’ve got it out and up, you’ll be firing sooner. Good thing to practice in dry fire
Btw there is a cheap alternative called VR practical shooting
this is kinda my way of doing things since i dont have any real guns at the moment to train with, although i use h3vr and have shot probably 4 million rounds (if you include all my other goofy stuff i do)
No wonder I felt like you “dropped off”
which camera are you using for the pov....
Insta360 Pro
what if you add a big co2 canister to practice some recoil, wont be the same but 🤷♂️
@@boonker2k coolfire trainer is neat
I won a USPSA match in Arizona, placed first out of 45+ shooters. Beat a couple of Masters to earn that nice 1st place. I attribute some of my success to the silly time trials in Arma 3 which mimic IPSC/3-Gun. I didn't do it in VR, I did it using a mouse and keyboard lol. So how and why did it help? Because USPSA (or any form of practical shooting) isn't even that much about shooting, it's about knowing how to cut time as you traverse a stage. Which is something the time trials in Arma 3 taught me... how to cut fractions of a second here and there. Since you're playing a game that is basically extremely close to a USPSA match, I think you just learned to game the system (aka stage planning) and that helped you do better.
Watching from your video... your recoil control and gun handling isn't good. Had you actually dry fired 170,000 times in real life with your pistol, I think you would have had MUCH MORE success than 170,000 VR rounds. Who knows, as the VR guns become more realistic in feel and recoil control, this might change, but it's kinda clear to see that it had little positive effect on you. I just know there's tons of guys out there, including myself, who have had leaps in improvement with a FRACTION of your VR rounds with simply dry fire and even less live fire.
@@UrbanDefenseSystems I dry fire every day for about half an hour and shoot live at least twice a month, usually about 250 rounds per session. Dry fire doesn't improve recoil control. My recoil control in this match was ass but my gun handling was fine (obvious can always be better, humility is important).
I agree that one of the affordances of virtual training for any sport is visualization. I think it's also true that ACE, specifically, is effective at developing not just stage planning/gamification of practical shooting, but vision/transitions/fine motor skills/index etc.
Do you have a match video anywhere so I could see how you stage plan?
@@controlled-pairs My suggestion for you then... Is to do the singles/doubles drill. And work on your support hand grip strength and maintain the focus while dry firing. I wasted what was like around a year of shitty dry fire practice that didn't translate to being a better shooter because I did it without focusing on the fundamentals that are actually conducive to shooting.
All I can do is send you a link to my 1st place win on Practiscore if you doubt my claim, though trust me, a 1st place match win, even in a state like Arizona means nothing in a Level 1 match. Is there any way to DM you?
@@UrbanDefenseSystems I'm aware winning a level 1 match isn't much of a flex. Was just interested in seeing you shoot. Lots of folks have provided excellent feedback and I'm grateful for it. Your feedback was just different, so it would have been cool to see the skill level of the person providing it.
I shoot doubles every range session. I lift 4 days a week, lots of barbell work. Will continue to work on it. Maybe I should just buy a 2011 or a steel framed CO gun! (I'm not)
@@controlled-pairs I tried going that route by the way. I have a lot of different pistols in my quest of chasing "recoil based performance" within carry optics, and let me tell you, it's an expensive endeavor that wasn't worth it haha. I hope I can recuperate some of those losses selling the guns back. If my feedback was different, then I take it as a compliment.
There's guys who are much weaker than us who have better recoil control and I personally think it's more to do with a constant mental focus of strong support hand grip, shooting the sights (vision focused) and perhaps even grip-based training (look into Captains of Crush grip trainers).
I'm sure you know who Ben Stoeger is and you probably follow his channel, but if you don't, take a look at his videos detailing how grip isn't that important after a decent connection to the pistol. That's an alternative approach to shooting that honestly I am finding better results using. The overly muscling of the pistol was detrimental for me as a shooter. Now I just kinda let it do its thing within reason and shoot the sights with different levels of confirmation.
Where can we find that "fake" gun you use with your controller attached to?
It's one of ACE VR's products. It's $200 and the game it's used with requires a subscription of $20 per month. It's a bad deal no matter how you look at it.
Hey big dawg? I came to see tactics in door kickers. Did you delete those videos ???
They're in my other channel, Controlled Pairs Gaming
Ohhhhh!
Hold up! Is that Port Malabar?!?!
Yessir!
@@controlled-pairs Omg i shoot there all the time. Thats awesome!
Hell i was there today shooting Action Steel
Nice! I really enjoyed the match. Will definitely be back.
@@controlled-pairs Good deal! I am off to basic next month so I probably wont see you shoot but all the best to you!
I am curious, do you guys doing this kind of thing think it turns you into super tactical operator killing machines or something?
That's a strange thing to be curious about. Are you feeling well?
@@controlled-pairs You gotta try harder deflection than that lmao.
But no, it's more that this type of "competition" is kind of a waste of time. It's set up as if it is trying to train "tactics" like breaching and stuff except it doesn't do that, most of the time there's no one involved who has actual practical knowledge or experience so bad training habits cannot be addressed, and the people doing it do it part time and with no real negative repercussions for failure. And a lot of other things too, point being it cannot accomplish what seems to be its purpose.
So why do it then? If you enjoy shooting, why not just shoot normally? I am curious if you think it actually accomplishes anything or has some value.
@@jimmydesouza4375 Forgive me for deflecting, I didn't want to take the bait. (this is me taking it)
It's a shooting competition, not a tactical competition. The goal is to shoot fast and accurately. It's a game or sport like any other. No one is pretending that doing this will make you an operator lol. It will absolutely make you a better shooter, though.
And to your final series of questions:
Why do it? - To compete. To have fun. To get better.
If you enjoy shooting, why not just shoot normally? - This is normal shooting.
Does it accomplish anything or have some value? - Yes. Experience in sport and competitive success is objectively a good thing. If you value being good at shooting, then being good at shooting is a good thing... and good competitive shooters are good at shooting.
As an aside, If I wanted to train tactics like (lol) "breaching and stuff," I'd do it at work, where I've been doing it for well over a decade and five deployments to combat. Despite my professional experience, I encounter civilian shooters who can outclass me at the range every time I go to a competition.
@@controlled-pairs That you have tried to completely shift “pseudo killhouse training” into it being just a sport suggests you hold an opinion other than what you state. Since you are a combat very, does the wanna be milsperg Walmart operator type that this sport is full of not sickens you?
If you are a vet you at least have an excuse to do it though.
@@jimmydesouza4375That you believe this resembles, or attempts to resemble, tactical training in any way is evidence of your naivety.
Well trained and well armed civilians do not disgust or intimidate me, they are the reason we are still free.
what is that pistol v r "stock"????
Training sim called ACE VR
I feel like I need go to the same range…
How do you mean?
Anyone have a good VR practice game for the meta quest 3? New to both worlds really but VR might able to help train those that cannot afford the crazy ammo prices!
@@fratricidefrank the system in this video is in Quest 3
@@controlled-pairs ah dang. I couldn't find the game that was mentioned though
@@fratricidefrank you'll have to go to acexr.com
whats the name of the vr game ?
It's a training sim called ACE VR
Looks great, but Meta is hard no. If they make it for Steam VR I'm in.
It's overpriced anyways. There are plenty of other pistol-shaped attachments for various VR headsets.
What is your Ace rank?
Diamond. But I'm a sample size of one and the ACE classification system is imperfect. Would be interesting to see how the data correlates with USPSA classifications across the population.
not sure how much time (edit: i meant money) somebody can save with those pricy gadgets :)
Oh I'm not trying to save time. Just maximize performance.
@@controlled-pairs oh sorry, i mispoke, i meant money :-D how much does it cost to train like that compared to buying ammo. You can even have 22. pistol, would be like VR gun i guess.
@@bitkarek I've shot 170k+ rounds in VR since last fall. I could easily do 1k rounds a day. No chance I could afford that (even with 22lr) in live ammo. It's a time saver in that my range is an hour from the house and I can only get out there once or twice a month between work and family. Plus all the drills are automatically scored, you get analytics and data about where you stack up compared to your peers etc. It's not better than live fire or dry fire, just a different approach that's valuable as a supplement rather than a replacement.
ACE VR is cringe simply because it's subscription-only.
All the homies will just play H3VR anyways.
anybody use drillsvr???
0:28 arrrghg it hurrrrtts pls dont put your quest in the sun even if its cloudy
Meh. I've got a couple of spares. I've done it for months without issue and used Quest 2 outdoors many times as well. Is it a risk? Sure. Worth it? 1000%
What? Why not? His lenses are covered by the headset being ON his face? Unless the front camera's are somehow just as sensitive...which I mean...yeah that sucks if they are -3-
USCCA ew
You should throw away that hat buddy...terrible company... you need lawyers, not insurance companies, that pick and choose what they cover
I have tons of hats. Just threw it on. I hear you, tho.
@controlled-pairs no hate here. Just be careful of who you advertise in the video. Good job, though, and keep it up
YOOOOO WTF why am I unsubscribed?????????
For the love of God. Don't call them deltas. It's a b c d it's not that hard you've been doing sense 1st grade schooling stop trying to be cool by overcomplecating simple language
@@TheAshYam that's nice nice
hi
Looks like you shot really good dude for only being your second match. I’m sure nerves were setting in pretty hard at first man. But nice to see a sim like ACE helping with progression. 🫡🇺🇸